#shippy discourse

[mejcinta]

About that interview, I think she said "miss" not in the sense "I long for those people" (she is talking about family in general), but in a "we chronically miss the chance to get to each other" because they all feel disconnected. The "especially with Aegon", it is because he is the person who she feels more disconnected to or the person who she feels harder to connect with

Here's the continuation of Phia's statement in connection to Aegon.

[witheredoffherwitch]

Hate to say it but if the writers go for Aemond and Helaena then all the changes they're making actually do make sense. If Helaena doesn't just stay in the keep then her being a dreamer gets expanded to the point that she could take up the seer role--- I think...she actually already is. I've lost all hope with Daeron. We knew this was coming. If he doesn't appear in season 2 then he might just as well don't---because why do Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White get more than time to be fleshed out than Daeron? The only explanation is Helaena and or Aemond getting his plot. Helaena already has dreamfyre---a formidable dragon and she has the best reason out of all the Greens to be a part of the Dance. I believe it was Hess who said that they want the show to be more about the women so I can't exactly be mad if Helaena does get her due.

by god if they cut out aemondcito just because aemond would already have children---whom he will be avenging I--- it does makes sense but does not mean we have to like it. I do wonder how they'll include him though because the show might just end with aegon iii's coronation---but queen of harrenhal plot happens in 132 AC after that. I just don't know at this point kind of losing hope

Hi nonnie,

I need to ask this time: what are 'all' the changes? Helaena was turned into a dreamer, but much has been altered for Aemond, Alicent, Rhaenyra and Aegon. Some for the worse! NOTHING about Helaena suggests that she will be a warrior: 1. she is neuro-divergent, 2. she speaks in cryptic sentences and 3. she mostly draws some hints for the upcoming events. She is in fact the least developed character out of all TG members. And now, we hear these conflicting reports of Helaena being relegated to a recurring character while both Tom and Ewan are billed in the main cast. If that is the case, even the 'dreamer' part will be downplayed! These showrunners would barely give her any scenes of mourning - and most of her 'dreamer' aspect will be reduced to her giving cryptic warnings to Rhaenyra about their potential future. This is bad news for all Helaena fans, as it appears that she will be used as a plot device rather than a proper flushed out character. We know that Helaena's death is important for Rhaenyra's arc (think Hodor to Bran), so there's little chance they will change it; this means she won't be participating in the battle.

Furthermore, we still don't know if Daeron leaks are true or not. Even if they are, his part will not be given to Helaena. It may even go to Aegon but Helaena's story arc in the show does not appear to be anything more than a dreamer, and her sole purpose during 'The Dance' will likely be that of a grieving mother. Plus, the introduction sequence has already revealed that Aegon fathered Helaena's children - so this should not even be a point of discussion. Basically, no one outside of the shippers believes these theories, which from your comments makes it sound like you're one of them. If you're interested in a more detailed explanation, take a look at this post.

If Aemondcito is removed from the show, it's not because Aemond already had three illegitimate children; it's because they decided to end Alys' story with Aemond's death in the battle above God's Eye. If you want to engage with this topic further, then you need to provide more proof for 'all' of the changes you're discussing here.

That's all! 🤗

[izhunny]

↑↑↑And don't expect a change.

As of this moment, there are 6 required fields to be completed when posting a fic to AO3.

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That's it.

Not even a summary is required:

Please remember tagging is always a courtesy and only the barest minimum of warnings are actually required for the Archive.

Ideally tags and tag fields work to sort to find/avoid archive items and should be about contents actually in the work. But relationships do not have to be tagged. Almost any content does not have to be declared.

Ship tags are great for helping an audience find/avoid desired shippy content but not mandatory.

If the nonny is trying to avoid untagged for items maybe just block/mute the author without first trying to report it in bad faith.

If nonny is trying to help the fic reach it's target audience perhaps a simple comment suggesting the author add the ship tag would work.

But do consider the author may have posted it as they want it to appear without that ship tag and don't owe anyone an explanation.

Also, because this always bears repeating: 'Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings' is its own very clear warning that anything is possible and to proceed with as much caution as if it contained all warnings one might find bothersome, though it may have none of them at all.

On AO3 tagging. If there's a fic with two canon characters in a relationship but it's not tagged with the ship tag, is that against AO3 policy? I mean do readers have any grounds to request the fic to be tagged with the ship tag?

--

That would be a request for the writer, not AO3.

[el-sandwich-de-geto]

me tryna follow a blog entirely unrelated to shipcourse: pretty things yaaay :)

blog entirely unrelated to shipcourse: proship/neutral/anti-anti dni

me: >:(

[glitchfang]

i think a fundamental aro or otherwise queer childhood memory was being a svtfoe fan when season 1 was airing and going "wow star and marco's relationship is so refreshing, i love having a m/f lead that seem to be totally platonic and their friendship is what matters, and shipping isn't really a big part of the show, they're just kinda vibing" and then season 2 aired and explicitly shipped them and had a scene in the season finale that was basically like "well duh OBVIOUSLY they were gonna be romantically involved, they're a guy and a girl living in the same house, what else did you expect???" and now your m/f leads have to be VERY convincing for me to like them or else i won't give a shit on principle

[mejcinta]

Number 1 rule of fandom should be: Don't gatekeep and harass others.

Gatekeeping sucks. Not to mention, all anon has to do is block or mute the ship they dislike instead of getting hot, bothered and abusive towards others with different views/preferences.

Alicent fans that don’t see her as anything but a repressed lesbian shouldn’t be called fans tbh. Stop shipping her with Cole and about what Emily said in that interview was referring to a storyline that was dropped so yeah, Alicent hasn’t shown a single interest in men ever

wow

congrats on being the first hate anon that actually managed to upset me.

so, story time. i've been struggling with my sexual identity ever since i was a teenager. really really REALLY struggling. i've had so many people trying to tell me i'm bisexual, pansexual, a straight woman that was attracted to one specific woman (and should just go back to dating boys because it's a choice).... it took me a lot of time to realize that i don't own anyone anything. i can just be me, i can just be a queer woman.

so don't tell me i'm not a "real fan" because i think that alicent's feeling for criston are more then platonic. don't tell me i'm not a "real fan" for not agreeing with your opinions. not having a platonic relationship with someone doesn't necessarily mean being romantically attracted to them.

[rawliverandgoronspice]

I have to say, I think I'm conceptually more into ganzelink than into ganlink or zelgan separately

[yennas-stuff]

I think from the marketing point of view it makes even more sense to "break up" E/riel. They claim to love Elain, and they certainly love Azriel. Give them both different love interests, and its a win-win situation.

Would they read a book about Lucien and Vassa? Doubt it since they don't like him and think that he's a bad person for being friends with the evil incarnate, aka Jurian, lol.

So am I supposed to believe they would read a book about the Band of Exiles? Sure, Jan. Also, if Elain lifts Vassa's curse in E/riel book, what would happen in Vassien book? A court of twiddling thumbs and tumbleweeds.

But what do I know? I'm just a silly willy.

[mejcinta]

The comment "Aegon loves his sister but only as a sister" I mean... yes. But also no.

She's the mother of his children on TOP of being his sister. There's an element of possessiveness there. It's way more complicated than we think. 🤔

[witheredoffherwitch]

I'm already here, so I'll share my final two cents on this particular ask:

don't think a POSITIVE arc is necessary to make sense of it all. Everyone pretty much just blew it despite having the opportunity to make things right. Claiming that Aemond wasn't doing anything 'important' in the Riverrun- and consequently Helaena can supplant Daeron to fix his errors isn't the purpose of the story! The characters are meant to BOTCH IT... that is the play! Mentioning that Alys didn't have any 'significant' effect doesn't mean diddlysquat in the grander narrative (no matter how incorrect you are!)...

The Dance is about how one powerful house ruined their destiny and bet their most valuable asset--dragons--on fate! SO PAY ATTENTION ALREADY!

[nicolovespancakes]

I hope you know if you say 'not a ship post' in your caption and I ship it,

I'm viewing it as a ship post.

<3

[witheredoffherwitch]

HUHWHAAT?!! This response is longer than your TG drabbles.. I'm literally bawling 😭 I am glad I could be a tool for you to release all your pent-up frustrations. I'll be there tomorrow night to smother you in smooches and love! 😘💋

FANTASTIC WORK, my darling Zae!

God I don't understand how people ship Alysmond in this fandom. There must be something wrong with them (perverts, I tell you).

A better ship for Aemond would be one with a dreamer, although younger (obviously). Let’s make her silver-haired and blue-eyed while we’re at it. Oh my, why not have her commit war crimes on dragonbacks alongside him like the perfect couple? 🥺👉👈 Let their romance be as darkly romantic as it can get and everyone will swoon! But wait; it gets even better! Just imagine if this woman bore his bastard children. Now THAT is truly a much better ship! Don’t you agree? Can I get a hallelujah?!

Helllooo Kalki! Congratulations on being my first discourse ask lol. I'm going to get right into it from a mixed pov. I watched the show before I read the book so you can maybe get a different perspective of my views on this ship. Again all these opinions are my own, I don't condone or promote any ship, merely like and comment on what I find interesting.

So when I first watched Hotd I thought Aemond and Helaena were cute. They were cute as siblings when they were younger and have an easy going, intriguing dynamic when they're older. Helaena seemed to be comfortable in his presence when one of the kings guard's brought Aemond to Alicent's chambers and Aemond was seemingly fond of his sister in episode 7 when he says he would do his duty by her. Now I personally interpreted it as something not romantic. Aemond from the get go has been shown to be heavily influenced by Alicent and his own traditions as a Targaryen. He's a stickler for duty and he sees Aegon shun every opportunity handed to him which he so desperately craves. He craves a dragon at that point, he craves a position which is worthy of him, respect and validation. Helaena along with being his sister, seems as a means or an added advantage being conferred to him were he in Aegon's position instead. She's his sister, he's close to her, he cares for her and he'll treat her much better than Aegon would along with the other duties Aegon's been bestowed with by order of his birth.

When they grow up we see Helaena and Aemond again comfortable in each other's presence. She looks up at him to seek comfort in moments of distress and he looks out for her when they are "at a threat" from the opposing faction. So for me, there was no obvious element of romance but again they're Targaryens so who knows? Siblings don't sibling like normal ones do🤷‍♀️

Now after I read the book and found out Helaena and Aemond had minimal to no interaction in it, my opinion changed drastically. All of her character exploration there revolves around Aegon, Alicent, her children and even Rhaenyra. Aemond is barely mentioned in relation to her.

Now if the show wanted to completely invent something new again they could, but to me personally, it would be a huge let down, not only because it takes away from the intresting and conflicted relationship Helaena and Aegon have in the books but also because I feel it goes completely against her combined, meshed book and show charcterisation.

Helaena is shown to be a dreamer on the show. That's something new they added which doesn't deviate so much from her book charcterisation. She's gentle, kind and has a strength which shines through her softness. She is feminine and strong. No pun intended. In the book she's depicted as a happy mother, a sensible advisor and a beloved queen which as far as season 1 is concerned I can sort of see happening in the future too.

Now coming back to the ask, I'd like to ask why someone would want to completely change this woman's charcterisation to make her a warrior queen in the first place. I'm all for her wanting revenge after b&c. If that were the case in the books or it was done and explored well on the show I would cheer for joy. Here is a mother who's been wronged in the worst possible way wanting revenge, hell yes! But alternatively there is nothing wrong with her mourning and succumbing to grief instead and in my opinion it makes her all the more human. She's been traumatised to no extent why shouldn't anyone in her position be allowed to fall into despair without being called weak. Grieving does not make you weak. To say "let her be a warrior to show how strong she is" doesn't sit completely right with me because she's strong to me either way. She shows strength in captivity, strength in letting her children and Aegon go, despite all the horror she faces. Strength need not be of one kind, it can be through perseverance and retaining your softness. Sadly she does kill her self which is again very understandable. It doesn't make her weak. To summarise giving her another arc for the reason of making her "a strong female charcter" seems fishy to me and I don't like it's implications.

Coming to her children being Aemond's. There are many posts detailing the opening sequence of Hotd which shows the entire family tree. Anyone who wishes can clearly see the twins are not Aemond's. As far as the show is concerned I'd be highly disappointed to find out they were his because first the timelines dont match and he'd have to be a kid, younger than her to do the deed and after that questionable incident at 13 I doubt duty bound Aemond would have gone ahead with it. Secondly both Aemond and Helaena have grown up listening to Alicent secretly chastise Rhaenyra and her brood. Do you think Hightower-seven worshipper-mother's traumatised children would think of doing the same thing she berates her rival about, begetting bastatds when it was a bastard who cut out Aemond's eye. Now I'm not saying he hates them because canon wise he may have either a bastard or a true born son with alys but at present the Aemond portrayed to us would likely not indulge in activities as such and neither would Helaena.

As for alysmond. Alys by herself is an intriguing character, as well as Aemond who is my favourite after season 1. I'm not hoping for a whirlwind mills and boon romance. I would rather see a codependent, forced proximity, reluctant allies type of relationship bloom due to the circumstances they've found themselves in, which gives them solace while also driveing them to insanity. I want questionable romance and jaw dropping character arcs ok. Not a fairytale.

Tldr : I like helaemond as a fanon ship. Their dynamic could have been interesting in a different scenario and the actors are two pretty people so what's not to love. As far as canon and the show is concerned, it's a no for me.

[tiafrye]

It's against my own rules to let this side of discourse into the shipping tag so it will stay clean. Yesterday, regarding infamous Valentine's Day vid from Larian, I was essentially asked:

"Doesn't it bother you that people associate BW with AA?" (allegedly)

The short answer is - I don't give a single fuck.

But why? I asked myself, and with a bit of a digging came up with an explanation.

Disclaimer: I don't participate in Spawn/Ascension war, I don't understand it, you do you. People who do, they usually have their Tav or Urge to ship with Astarion and do I need to tell you that it's a self insert most of the time? So, people's feelings about the topic usually come from their own likes/dislikes or experience.

When it comes to shipping origin characters I (and many more) view them not from own perspective (mostly) but from the dynamic these canon characters (not ours) have.

Being narrative foils of each other, Gale and Astarion can affect one another's perspective on their shared Want - to be in control of their lives once again. And ascension for both is an obvious way out. What they Need, however, as any book on screenwriting will teach you, is something not quite obvious.

This leads to Negative and Positive arc of a character respectively. Would they recognize their truest deepest wish or continue on the path of something they can clearly see but suffer downfall in the end? Either way it's a story, it's content.

And I'm here for content. Whatever it might be.

Hell, last week I saw someone's playthrough gone wrong and both Gale and Astarion failed to ascend. The screenshot that person have posted from epilogue with Astarion on his knees alone at the reunion party was heartbreaking and still it was a peak representation of BW.

Shippers gonna ship. And in game such as BG3 with so many paths to travel do you really think that just because it's not someone's happy ending people gonna collectively pretend it doesn't exist?

Watching characters corrupt each other, destroy each other or failing at it is as juicy as watching them heal each other and finding their happiness in terms of the story because there's a fully realized arc behind it. It is essentially a quality collaboration between authors of both characters. Not a quick tumblr fanfiction.

In the end - we all want to see our favs happy together. I mean, look at majority of the fanart. People are fine. But denying yourself many possibilities of other paths?

Well, it's your money.

[ilgattopatata]

"disco elysium is a deep and impactful game about existentialism, change and hope in the face of ruin" and "disco elysium can be a deeply unserious game where you shove your thumb up your ass to prove your honor" are statements that can and should coexist

[witheredoffherwitch]

@mejcinta we're catching all the strays here 💅

do you even realize the show's been totally switched up from canon? Daeron isn't comin back if he is skipped from season 2.... so much is diff! and I'm just picturing yours witheredoffherwitch and mejacinta's faces when all of you get proven wrong!! haha stay MAD!!

Honey why are you still stuck on that, I thought that topic was closed ages ago. We're still not sure whether Daeron's being cut, he may show up in season 3 or even 2 for that matter, I'm not putting any stock in rumors till the trailer is out. Coming into my ask box and mentioning my moots "staying mad" isn't going to earn you any points tbh and is kind of ironic if you ask me. Again, if helaemond happens it happens and I hope for your sake it isn't portrayed in a way that completely butchers both characters.

[slythereen]

anyway my dash is extremely outdated and quiet these days so like this post to build me a follow list pls

seeking

charles & max propaganda

seb, lance, oscar, lando >

i actually like the entire grid so rlly any f1 blogs welcome to the follow list

i do not actually ship anyone but do reblog content in a Besties™ way so yall welcome too