#sun and moon show discourse

[possumsarenice]

I’m gonna say it bluntly.

FUCK SOLARMOON FUCK SOLARMOON FUCK APHOBES FUCK MFS SENDING GORE FUCK ALL OF YOU WHO HARASS PEOPLE WHO CALL YOU OUT ON YOUR BULLSHIT AND FUCK SOLARMOON

if this pisses you off then block me or I’ll block you myself 🖕❤️

[kenmarlenn]

Heads up, in case you've seen the VAs tweets.

I'm the one who informed Reed, Davis, and Kat about the whole situation with users [EDIT 9/1/24, 9:20PM EST: sending anonymous asks and making blogs] planning to send documents to the VAs to complain about harassment in response to the post [EDIT 9/1/24, 9:20PM EST: by Alex] about the harassment. I informed the VAs because I moderate for many of them, and for TSBS on Discord, so I wanted to be sure they were prepared and not confused if someone tried to message them. I also did it to ask what should be done about the topic being brought up on their Discords (as they are not involved in that situation/it is not relating to TSBS or their personal content, it will be removed).

Neither Alex, Ceph, Dana, Witchy, etc. interacted or sent them anything since they posted the documents - they said they're not interacting with the situation anymore, and they are sticking to that. Just so we are clear.

[alexandraisyes]

The cutest reminder ever that the way family works in TSAMS canon is that two parties have to be in mutual agreement that they are family. If one party doesn't agree then they aren't family. Parties can revoke familial ties whenever they want and that means they are no longer family.

"Code Relation" theory is stupid because you're then implying that Eclipse is Sun and Moon's child. Which he isn't. Or that Killcode is somehow Moon's child and his brother at the same time that he's Eclipse, Lunar and Bloodmoon's "father" at the same time that they're Sun and Moon's grand children. Like, we're seeing the issue here, right?

Don't make things more complicated than it has to be. Just accept the fact that family is literally determined by a verbal agreement between two animatronics and nothing else because none of them were born from wombs. That means respecting canon when characters in canon decide that they aren't comfortable being family (like Eclipse) or just straight-up disown everyone (like Bloodmoon). It's okay to have headcanons, but don't try to push them onto canon.

[peachyfnaf]

btw these 3 know about whats going on. and even they're disgusted. now, the VAs have all spoken out about the harassment this group has been receiving from Shattered-Sparks, Biased-TSAMS-confessions and their supporters. The fact that they had to speak out to start with is ridiculous.

Reed’s initial statement defending the victims:

[mercoolry]

I’m gonna say something controversial, and the TSAMS/LAES fandom might hate me for this, but…

Some of yall are lowkey weird for shipping Lunar x Kerian.

Wasn’t the whole episode literally Lunar getting manipulated?? Yall are literally shipping Lunar with some evil bird guy who (I believe is) thousands of years old who manipulated him 💀🙏🏻

Idc, fight me for this, BUT LURIAN (we’ll just call that the ship name for now) LITERALLY ISNT ANY BETTER THAN LUNAR X ECLIPSE.

We know Lunar is naive, he always has been, he’s proven many times he’s the perfect target for manipulation. And I know he doesn’t want to be in a relationship rn after him and Gemini broke up, and I’m not saying him and Kerian actually have a chance together (because they don’t, Kerian probably has the same sort of feelings around love as the other astrals do; which is nonexistent, basically the astrals are aroace), but as we see at the end of the episode, the flirting lowkey worked, so it IS possible that it could turn into something much bigger.

Im just saying, I’ve seen way too many ppl GENUINELY ship these two, which in my opinion is honestly weird asf, fight me 😭🙏🏻

[bitterkarmaa]

Okay. Alright. I don’t usually get involved in fandom discourse. It’s not my thing, I’ve had severe backlash in the past from doing so, blah blah blah 100 reasons why I try and stay away from the heart of any fandom because the heart is always where all the drama lurks.

BUT!

Kat doesn’t deserve the slander she’s getting. This is a show we are allowed to watch FOR. FREE. She takes(took?) time out of her busy schedule to organize an engaging story for us, and there are some folks who decide that they have a RIGHT to WHINE about that?? Good grief, the entitlement is fucking astonishing to me. She is a very talented writer and storyteller, who voices a character that I, admittedly, was very uncertain of at first. But, now? Earth is probably in my top five favorites! She is very well developed and should be treated as an equal to the rest of her family, just like Kat, as her voice actor, should be treated like the other VAs! The disrespect towards both the characters she voices and herself as a person are so disgusting and makes me extremely disappointed as a part of the community that appreciates all she does.

This is a free show. They take the time to write, organize, and play-out the scenes, despite having lives of their own. There is no perfect story that will ever be written. As a writer, I know that. I’m well aware of it. Kat, Davis, or any of the other writers shouldn’t be held to impossible standards just because some people have gripes with the story they’re telling.

I myself have had some moments where I’m unhappy with the way the story progresses. Maybe, in some ways, I’ve contributed to the excessive hate towards plot changes or advances. And, if I have, I sincerely, honestly apologize for that. I’m not going to make excuses. For myself, or for others that have voiced the same opinions.

The story isn’t written for me.

The story isn’t written for you.

The story isn’t written for any one person.

It’s written for a community. A larger group of people that enjoy the content that is produced. For those that are attacking Kat for helping to produce these stories: you have no right to call yourself a member of this community. Communities are for supporting one another. Stop bringing everyone down with you just because you’re butt hurt about a story that was never made for you in the first place.

[cutely-inserts-my-opinion]

The VA's make me feel safe knowing they don't wish death on me for shipping some things. Especially Reed he gives a 'bring it on' attitude and I appreciate it honestly? To some I know it may seem aggressive but honestly feels like a big ol' warm safety hug. Reed+the fandom is the 'excuse me they asked for no pickles' meme.

Mhm

[basilbots]

Guys if you're making nasty accusations about the real life character of a person and what they would do irl because they don't see the robot's relationships, which may I remind you do not work like humans and contain fantastical elements that do not have a real life equivalent, the same as you then you need to just take step back from the fandom. It was never that serious and making such accusations is more disgusting than whatever that person is doing that you don't like. Stop

[dana-chan-the-control-brain]

I can't believe it lunar in today new episode said new moon is WORSE than old moon and I'm like NO!! THE FUCK HE ISN'T!!! The the hell is wrong with this new arc

My thoughts exactly.

Like I really have no idea.

My main theory is a virus.

Increasing Earth's aggression, and Lunar's apathy.

The only reason it doesn't effect Sun and Eclipse and Ruin is because they're part Sun models and Dark Sun wouldn't make a virus that he could catch.

HOWEVER...

I can also see Lunar and Earth acting in a way like this where their traumas naturally evolved to extreme apathy in Lunar's case and "sick of being pushed on" in Earth's case.

So I don't know. It's a tricky situation, but I am still suspecting foul Sunset play.

.....

Also, I'll just mention it here.

Monty wanted to bring back Old Moon so that he wouldn't need to work at Mcdonalds anymore and keep getting Sugar Daddy Money from the Celestials since Sun cut Monty off of funds since he was pissed at him for not telling him about Moon experiencing hallucinations and understandably so. and Monty never bonded with Newmoon the same way the others did so he just wanted the Oldmoon back and acted selfishly despite Moon can't act selfish when he wanted to bring back someone he cared about for himself.

SIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhh................... Okay.

[starays13]

That group of 8 anons are targeting you now??? Be careful, Star 😥 Why are they so mad about anyone making non-romantic things for a show that doesn't even focus on romance is beyond me

Yeah honestly I can barely take them seriously

I view them as like a council of supervillains plotting in their evil lair

Calling me homophobic (Over a cute little chibi drawing I made during Pride month) while actively saying stuff like calling the aroace flag “disgusting” is wild

[themoonstarwarrior]

Here's what's confusing me about the narrative direction the TSAMS shows have taken:

What could happen possibly led them to this decision?

Like, I dont think Davis or Reed or Kat are stupid. They SURELY have to know that the characters they're playing are acting WAY out of character, right? They HAVE to realize how much character/narrative assassination and shark jumping this whole arc has become, right?

Like what is the purpose? We HAD plotlines. The whole point of Moons grief and identity crisis versus Eclipses growth in getting Solar back was doing just fine. But instead, the WHOLE thing got absolutely sideswiped. This thing that Moon turned into DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Earth crossing the line from setting a boundary to hating a family member DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. The collective deciding that the solution is to bring Old Moon back DOESNT. MAKE. SENSE. So why did the narrative go like this?

And dont get me wrong, I have had issues with the shows narrative directions before. But even if I thought they weren't the best ways to go, I could at least see an understanding in how it worked with characters and plot direction. But nothing about this is satisfying or makes sense with what we've gotten from the show before.

It could be this was all a point to get Old Moon back by making the audience hate New Moon. But that doesnt make sense either. First of all, while I know there are people who DESPERATELY want the Old Moon back, a LOT of people (myself included) have been swayed by how much New Moon has grown and improved, and generally think this turned out better. Secondly, you arent going to get the audience to hate New Moon by forcing him into this abrupt personality shift that leads him in the EXACT OPPOSITE DIRECTION of his character. That's not good writing, that's not good plot. ESPECIALLY if you hafta force the characters to act differently than they should to move it in the direction you want.

I really believe that these show creators know this. Even with the (imho) shakier narrative choices, they've STILL managed to pull out some really good narratives and development. If the character of Miku is any indication, they DO know how awful that sort of writing is. And while apparently the Discord is on fire with fighting, I really see more of a collective arc negativity from the fandom, so I doubt they're unaware of how unhappy their audience is.

So what could they possibly be working towards that would have them make these decisions? What were they trying to do that either messed up so badly or was worth the risk of viewer dissatisfaction to achieve? What could possibly be the end goal of this arc that would make any of this REMOTELY satisfying?

They've asked us to "trust the process" before. At this point, the way this arc has gone, I dont know how they could resolve this arc that would make the fandom feel like it was WORTH trusting.

[catflowerqueen]

You know what? I’ll just go ahead and outline my thoughts on why I think getting called “her father’s daughter” could be a potentially devastating insult for someone—likely an enemy—to call Earth.

Again: This is not me saying I think any of this is necessarily true of her character, just that recent events and how certain actions she’s been taking lately could be seen, especially from an outsider’s or enemy’s perspective (at least—her actions given what I’ve gleaned from summaries and what others have said about what’s been going down).

The Creator takes a forcible approach to changing things to fit the worldview he desires. And when people no longer fit that worldview? When the façade cracks and people refuse to play along with his vision? He disavows them. Throws them away.

And… what did Earth do to Nexus? Before they even directly attacked her, and it was completely reasonable of her to feel the need to step back a bit since her actual life was now in danger?

She disavowed them. She threw them away.

Nexus was too caught up in their grief and their very real problems, was no longer being the doting older sibling, said a few mean things about her not being a real therapist—which she’d already said early on that she didn’t even want for that to be her role in the family, before going back on that for some reason later on—and was no longer playing the role she wanted and was used to. Nexus was no longer in a stable headspace to clean up everyone’s messes, and was, apparently, supposed to be “more mature” than Lunar when it came to dealing with trauma and people who hurt them, their family, and trillions of uninvolved innocents—even though Nexus has never had their very real traumas addressed or given aid for or had the chance to heal the way the rest of their siblings have—so when they finally, inevitably broke under the grief and pressure?

Earth didn’t like that, and went by the Creator’s example of dropping the façade of care and throwing them away. And then immediately switching her attention over to something supposedly "better" in the current iteration of Moon.

…Though, at least she was different in that, at one time, she did care about Nexus, while the Creator never cared about her. But that also just might make the pain worse. Because it is one thing to learn that you were never loved at all, and the whole thing was just a lie or a mask someone was using to get what they wanted. To learn that you were always just a tool, or a means to an end.

It is another thing entirely to learn that the love existed, but was shallow and conditional and depended on you lying and putting on a pleasant mask that hid your pain. A mask that only you needed to wear—because your position has always been the scapegoat, and everyone else was already good enough/fulfilled enough in their assigned roles to never even ponder stepping out of them to see if they would be happier doing something different/their assigned roles included messing up and making mistakes or acting "childish" or "spoiled" as a matter of course.

And, on the note of assigned roles…honestly, as others have said, Nexus never should have been considered the older brother to begin with—to any of their siblings—since they were younger than her. And younger than Lunar, by certain metrics, since even though Lunar technically was “reborn,” they didn’t have to contend with any memory gaps and just picked right back up where they left off. To the point that it could be argued they didn’t even “die” so much as just get put in a coma for a long time, especially with how nanomachines were and are implied to work in the TSAMS universe.

…Anyways…

This ended up a bit harsher toward Earth than I’d intended (probably because I decided to stay up and write this after I should have been in bed and asleep), and is probably meaner toward her character than she actually deserves… But, as I said, this is an exploration of why calling Earth "her father's daughter" would be the sort of insult an enemy would sling at her. One of the ones who like to pick at sore spots, use psychological torment, and twist things like memories and actions around to make them appear more sinister than they were in reality.

Do I think Earth reacted badly, and should have handled the situation better? Especially since she had tried to put herself in the role of a therapist? Absolutely I do. Do I think there was any sort of “evil machinations” or deeper meaning behind her actions on par with why the Creator tried to uphold that genial façade for so long? Absolutely not.

I genuinely think she was just overreacting/mishandled the situation/lashed out in her own sense of anger and sadness, and is now just doubling down with how crazy things have still been for her family lately. Especially now that there is a “new” Moon to deal with and Nexus is both out of sight and out of mind... as well as possibly genuinely out of her reach, both physically and emotionally. And she also might not want to reconcile given the whole “they almost killed me” thing. Which… yeah, after that point it is fair that she would be upset and angry and want some physical distance, and I wouldn't blame her for not forgiving Nexus for that specific thing.

It would have been fair for her to want some physical distance after their earlier harsh words, too… it’s just that isn’t what she said she was doing. Had she said/expressed by her actions something to the tune of “I need to take a step back from this for my own mental health so I can have some space to process,” it would have been fine. But she didn’t. She and Lunar immediately jumped to what was essentially disownment, and then didn’t clarify in the next lore video that those were just the harsh words they were saying in the heat of the moment and that what they really meant was they were upset and needed their own mental health breaks/weren't equipped to deal with the severity of the situation.

…Honestly, though, with Lunar it hurts… not exactly less, but at least in a different way when it comes to how they handled things, because they’d always been combative toward Nexus. The only time I remember them genuinely expressing concern or love for them as a sibling was after the daycare got exploded thanks to Ruin during the second October takeover--and that wasn't even expressed directly to Nexus--and then when Nexus and Sun found their way back. Yes, they did run immediately for a hug from Nexus after being rebuilt and getting rescued by Puppet… but then they immediately admitted it was because they’d briefly forgotten that Nexus was “New Moon,” not the original one.

So while their reaction to this entire situation was and is still massively disappointing, I can’t really say it was too out of character for them. At least not the same way it was coming from Earth.

…Hope this made at least some sort of sense.

[alexandraisyes]

Every time I reblog something about the normal DCA I feel like I’m betraying the tsams fandom even though I literally started in the normal DCA fandom as a sun/moon shipper and still ship sun/moon as DCA. And what freaks me out is I told myself going in that I wasn’t going to let fandom harassment make me anxious or anything about continuing to just enjoy shipping DCA in general and not specific to any singular AU.

But once you know TSAMS it’s like there’s a target on your back about shipping things, because it might not align with what a few people in the fandom agree about. And stars forbid if you have your own designs and characters loosely inspired by TSAMS (because now that you watch TSAMS there’s always going to be some kind of connection) that have nothing to do with TSAMS and you ship your two OCs.

Or that you enjoy certain concepts in the show and want to take those and make your own AU that is nothing like the show but nods to it a little bit.

This fandom is horrible about making people feel nervous about being in the larger fandom of the DCA. I shouldn’t be worried about losing followers or facing harassment for acknowledging that TSAMS doesn’t define the entire DCA community. And now it feels like the only “safe” area outside of TSAMS is shipping yourself. And I’m aroace. I literally cannot do that my brain will revolt and I will feel gross.

Sometimes I really fucking regret getting super involved with this fandom, and the issue is that it feels like everyone outside of my circle knows me. Because of my thread on the server, because of this account, and because I’m friends with a lot of “large” creators.

This fandom really needs to fucking step back and look at themselves because I shouldn’t feel anxiety over enjoying content outside of TSAMS.

[thatonegoldenfreddyfan]

Hold on chat im trying to catch up on everything going on in the SaMs community as to avoid any more fire 😭

So, Solar is not? Canonically? considered brothers with the rest of the DCA right?? I mean I’ll always see him as their brother, but what about canon? I cant tell bro

As for Lunar and Earth, they are still siblings correct? Same for Sun and Moon?? And are all four of them still considered related??

Eclipse, what about him? Is he still their brother?

Oh, and Bloodmoon too. Who is HE considered as related too

The last time I checked in this fandom, the rule was that if theyre a DCA, theyre a sibling. Bear with me here

[bitterkarmaa]

Little reminder that yelling at me does not equal world domination, finding twenty bucks on the ground, or the therapy that you defiantly need <3

[basilbots]

Y'all do not need multiple confession blogs to spread more negativity for fucks sake. Not even having the courtesy to use the pre-existing tsams confession tag for people to block any of these kinds of posts isn't cute either