#tara && willow; relationship

[buffyandwillow]

i was thinking earlier about… how willow is (amazing, wonderful, an amazon) an incredibly tragic character, because essentially all of her self-worth comes from external sources, and once she no longer has that, she crashes and burns to such an epic extent.

this is a girl who was bullied and rejected by her peers since childhood, and whose parents never gave her the time of day. in episode 1, she is no longer willing or able to take up space. and then she meets buffy.

buffy chooses to spend time with her, and wants to talk to her, and doesn’t want her to go away! this gives willow enough of a boost to stand up against cordelia in episode 2. (“she’s not a pyscho loony. you don’t even know her.”) i think this a testament to how strong willow is - or rather, it suggests that she had strength and fight inside her all along, she just needed someone else to believe she could/should be heard. willow’s self-confidence seems to grow as she spends more time with buffy, with her strength beginning to mirror buffy’s own. at the end of season 2, buffy and willow are put through parallel tests of strength as buffy physically fights angelus, and willow works the spell to restore angel’s soul.

in season 3, as she learns more spells, she begins to feel more useful to the gang (and to buffy, specifically). the arrival of faith threatens her new confidence. when she perceives that buffy is repeatedly choosing to spend time with faith over her, and when buffy tells her that she can’t understand it (“it’s kind of a slayer thing”), willow feels understandably hurt - but it’s deeper than that. she questions her usefulness. she questions if buffy really needs her - and if buffy doesn’t need her, why would she stick around? (she's already left willow once.) after all, buffy had sought her out originally to help her with her studies. and then! willow had found she could apply her computer skills to help out with buffy’s slaying duties. up until this point in their relationship… they’re best friends, they talk about life stuff, they look out for one another - and willow helps buffy in every way she can. she needs to be needed, and when that’s taken away from her, she hurts, and she falters.

all in all, willow comes out of this season pretty strong. she has a cool boyfriend (in a band!), they lose faith to the dark side (no more competition for buffy's or xander's affection!), and willow chooses to stay in sunnydale to fight the good fight - and she explains, fairly convincingly, that it’s not for buffy, but for herself.

and then in season 4, willow meets tara. in this moment, willow becomes buffy: she becomes the one to share her strength and confidence with another person. throughout their relationship, we watch as willow - now brimming with power - helps to bring out the strength and fight in tara, too. what’s fascinating to me is that there are two opposite ways to look at their relationship. one is the way that tara sees it: that the light in her is all because of willow. the other is the way that willow sees it: that the light in her is all because of tara.

willow’s insecurities go deep. it’s suggested that willow hates herself, and/or feels like some sort of fraud. in 4x22 restless, buffy peels away willow’s “costume” to reveal her season 1 self. willow herself makes disparaging remarks about the nerd she used to be.

losing tara hurts because she loves tara immensely, but there's an undercurrent of something else here: willow loves tara so much more than she loves herself that tara's existence becomes her only reason to live. when willow loses tara to glory’s mind-suck, she goes on a suicide mission to fight the goddess. when she loses tara to her own magic addiction, she falls deeper and deeper in the hole, essentially erasing herself as she lets her own mind be consumed. and when she loses tara for good in seeing red, she loses everything. the will to live. the will for the world to exist. in a moment of lucidity, she says to buffy: “the only thing i had going for me… were the moments - just moments - when tara would look at me, and i was wonderful. and that will never happen again.”

it is tragic to me that willow feels this way, after all she’s been through. that after all the progress she made, she never learned to love herself - only the part of herself that was reflected in tara, and now that’s gone forever, along with the one she loved most in the world.

[gh-0-stcup]

My last post got me thinking a bit more on how one might interpret Willow's relationships in the early seasons when coming at it with the perspective of her being a lesbian, rather than bisexual.

Willow had a crush on Xander from the start. Xander is her oldest (and possibly only) friend. They've known each other their whole lives, they always have fun together, and they love each other to death.

As I mentioned in my previous post, it is very easy to conflate this kind of dynamic with romantic/sexual attraction. You know you want this person to be in your life forever - isn't that what romance is? Wouldn't it be so nice to just marry them?

Let's put it this way. So you don't have many friends. The other girls are all really mean to you, so you hate them about as much as they hate you. You haven't had a close relationship with another girl since before puberty (if ever). You missed out on the slumber parties and other little moments of closeness with girls that could have clued you in that you're attracted to them.

Because of your social ostracization and general tendency to stay inside studying, you may be going into your second year of high school without ever having felt attracted to a single real life person.

At the same time, you know that everybody else is feeling it. They talk about it all the time. You must be feeling it to. You see guys on TV and think, "Oh, he's nice to look at." You always feel happy and comfortable around your best friend. That's it, right? That's what the buzz is about?

Another huge thing I don't see brought up too much anymore is the way Willow's pre-Tara relationships center almost entirely around validation.

Willow wants to be loved. She wants to be valued. She wants to be seen as attractive. Xander is constantly talking about how hot other girls are. Why can't he see her that way? Why can't any guy? Xander would see a girl he hates as an object of sexual desire before Willow.

The desire to be seen, to be desired can easily warp into a sort of obsession. But wanting to be wanted by a person is not the same as being attracted to them. And herein lies much of the trouble between her and Xander. She wants to be wanted by Xander, but does she want him? No, says season 3.

And now we come to Oz. This is another relationship that is almost entirely focused on validation for Willow. It's a big part of what makes it really, really fun to watch. From the second he first lays eyes on Willow, he's hers.

Oz is like everything Willow ever wanted. He's a cool attractive senior who's in a band and has a van. And he really, really wants her. He's also very smart, easy to talk to, and fun to be around.

It's a very low pressure relationship in terms of the physical. Oz craves meaningful connection, sees sexual activity as an expression of that connection. He encourages her to slow down, to not force it. He's chill. He'll wait. In short - it's not a relationship where passion is a requirement.

They go on several dates without Oz ever kissing Willow. Willow's first attempt to kiss Oz has him rejecting her because he can tell she's just trying to pacify her Xander-induced insecurities.

In his speech, Oz expresses openly how much he wants to kiss Willow. How he fantasizes about her in class. How much he wants to be the object of her desire as well. And Willow melts.

But her reaction is focused around (finally) being desired. It doesn't have much to do with Oz and who he is. She wants him to want her. That he's a cool guy she can brag about to her friends is a great bonus.

And don't take that last bit in the wrong way - it's wonderful Willow got to have that. It was innocent and sweet. The kind of guy she never imagined would be interested in her falling head over heels? It's pretty much every dorky girl's fantasy. Of course she's flattered and flustered and excited.

And what does Willow do when she has her dream guy? She cheats on him. Her affair with Xander can be seen as her being overwhelmed by this powerful attraction she's felt to him for years. Hormonal teenagers being idiots.

Many have suggested the thing with Xander can't align with lesbian!Willow. I disagree. Under this lens, Willow can't tell the difference between her feelings for Oz and her feelings for Xander because they aren't meaningfully different. She is able to cheat, depsite it being pretty against her character, because neither relationships carry the emotional weight they should.

The fling with Xander was a meaningless indulgence of a childhood fantasy. It was largely powered by (apologies for the repetition) wanting to be wanted. Xander, who's always overlooked Willow, was fucking up his relationship with Cordelia goddamn Chase to make out with Willow. That'd be pretty addictively validating.

Even after it blew up and Xander was single, there was never a choice between him and Oz for Willow. No conflict, Oz all the way. She felt dumb for even jeopardizing it.

But she did jeopardize it. Possibly an indication that even though their relationship was literally everything Willow could have asked for, there was still something missing?

Their sex life is also somewhat removed from sexual desire. When she attempts to initiate sex, it isn't about her attraction to him. She wants Oz to know she loves him, that he's special to her.

When they do have sex, it direct follows Willow's speech about there being so much she wanted to try after high school and how she's scared she might never get to. It isn't passion between the two characters that motivates the consummation, but Oz giving Willow the only thing he can in that moment. The chance to have a new and important experience.

Willow enjoyed it. They cuddle happily in the afterglow and Willow describes the experience as "nice."

Let's take a leap forward to Tara. Due to network restrictions, there's more limits on what the viewer is able to see of their relationship. The magic substitutes the physical, especially in season 4.

Those moments are intimate, sensual, very intense. They're deeply passionate.

Their connection is powerful. And it's entirely about each other. It's everything that was missing from Willow's relationship with Oz.

[sunnydaleherald]

The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Saturday, June 8th - Sunday, June 9th

KENNEDY: OK. One drink. I can work with that. Let's start with the easy stuff. How long have you known? That you're gay. WILLOW: Wait. That's easy? And you just assume that I'm—I'm gay. I mean, presume much? KENNEDY: (grins) OK. How long have you enjoyed having sex with women? WILLOW: Hey! What, you think you have some special lesbidar or something?

~~The Killer in Me~~

[Drabbles & Short Fiction]

Relationship Status by veronyxk84 (Buffy, Dawn, PG-13)

I Don't Play Well With Others by Val_Creative (Buffy/Angel, not rated)

The Two of You by frogfarm (crossover with Supernatural, Willow/Lenore, T)

A Different World by TannaraMoonvale (crossover with Supernatural, Scoobies, T)

take note by CallMeVampy (Giles/Anya, T)

Seas the Day by honeygirl51885 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17)

Relationship Status by VeroNyxK84 (Buffy, Dawn, anthology rated PG-13)

Ready For More by MaggieLaFey (Buffy/Spike, Adult Only)

[Chaptered Fiction]

Recommencer - Chapter 16 (COMPLETE!) by FridayQueen (Buffy/Faith, M, in French)

Hero - Chapter 3 (COMPLETE!) by Xyex (Buffy/Willow, Buffy & Kendra, Buffy & Joyce, M)

origin of species - Chapter 1-2 by eagle_eyes (Cordelia, AtS ensemble, T)

stay awake with me (worm your way back in) - Chapter 1 by pumpkin_berry (Buffy/Faith, M)

In Any Life, Ch. 14 by Spikelover4ever (Buffy/Spike, NC-17)

I Shall Dress In Aeternum, part 1 by BlueZeroZeroOne (Highlander crossover, Buffy, FR15)

The Watcher-Who-Lived, Ch. 1 by TheDullahan (Harry Potter crossover, Amy, FR18)

A New Game, Ch. 1 by Balder (Buffy, Joyce, Xander x Dawn, FR18)

Out For A Walk... Bitch, Ch. 19-20 (COMPLETE!) by MaggieLaFey (Buffy/Spike, Adult Only)

Truth Hurts, Ch. 1-5 (COMPLETE!) by Geliot99 (Buffy/Spike, R)

[Images, Audio & Video]

Drawing: angel they could never make me hate you by egonkula (Angel, Acathla, worksafe)

Vid: Buzzer by ladyofthelakes (Faith)

Buffy by lialivingart (worksafe)

Buffy by lystacre (worksafe)

Xander and Anya in OMWF by mistyintherivers (some nudity)

A Faith/Dawn manip by bratsallwomansized (everyone is clothed)

Spike screenshots captioned by text posts by jamie-the-scene-kid (worksafe, some NSFW text if you zoom in)

Comic: Not A Date, part 5 by Grief Counseling, Dusty (Buffy/Spike, NC-17)

Date Night by all choseny (Buffy/Spike, collection rated PG-13)

Buffy's Christmas List by Dynamite (Buffy/Spike, collection rated NC-17)

Angel game just designed by girlpire (Angel, worksafe)

🔪 BTVS 519. Tough Love 🔪 by tmcarlee (Willow/Tara, worksafe)

Vid: Let Her Go by Wackamack-98 (Angel/Cordelia)

[Reviews & Recaps]

dead man’s party is so good by initiumseries

first time watch [season 1 up to episode 6] by Specialist-Orchid-80

What's an underrated badass moment (preferably from someone besides Buffy)? by Ok_Area9367

Season 5: The Gift by Tall_Secretary4133

[Recs & In Search Of]

Buffy omnibus 1,2,3 for sale by nonnatwo

[Fandom Discussions]

[the song] ‘i look in peoples windows’ is SOOO angel by bangelism

Re: thoughts on Kennedy by laufire

The most special Tillow moment for me... by maybebitterxox

The scoobies are always questioning Buffy's logic and instincts... by kookygobbledygook, unmarkedcards

This episode has Angel get drugged, inducing euphoria which in turn makes him evil, but... by nicnacsnonsense, ymfingsteadilyon

Spike being able to attack the scientists by zorilleerrant

[Thematic parallels between Angel and Willow] by 5bi5, lightdancer1

Did Riley make the right choice? by November and others

How would you change/recreate the show? by NoShip

Something I noticed about Angel and Faith's friendship by Other_Thing_2551

Why did they write Connor out of Angel? hosted by OptionNo1672

[AtS] Season 3 episodes 2 and 3 switched? by HazelCheese

This is what Xander sees when he looks at Angel by drawandpaintbyfire

What series would each character binge? hosted by ErrForceOnes

Spike's behaviour in Seeing Red is perfectly in character by figinmyteeth

Did anyone else think Kennedy was kinda hot? by UnicornScientist803

The vast majority of [Spike's] close relationships were with women. by beeemkcl

I’ve always wondered exactly what the relationship was like between Dawn and Faith prior to Bad Girls by AndrewHeard

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Join the editor team :)

[girl4music]

Is Willow a bad person for getting with somebody like Kennedy? It’s a relevant question to ask.

Well, I think it’s been established for quite awhile now that Willow can be a pretty bad person herself. And I don’t mean the Dark Willow thing. I mean her tendency to control or fix things to her liking.

Is it intentional? No, I don’t believe so. But nevertheless she’s too much of a wild card to realistically go into a new relationship with anyone. It’s not just about the struggle of moving on from Tara and letting herself go to be intimate with Kennedy. It’s about the fact that she’s got a lot of shit to sort out upstairs. She’s got to grow as a person. She’s got to learn her own worth. She’s got to learn to love herself. And then she can love someone else. Even someone like Kennedy, who is just as impulsive, if not more than she is. Is quick to reaction out of feeling uncomfortable. Wanting to have the last word in. Willow is pretty lenient in comparison but she’s still someone who wants it her way. She’s still someone who wants to dominate.

Willow needs to expand on her self-awareness. Even in the scene where she had to confront Spike about Buffy’s whereabouts, she’s pretty oblivious to how she sounds to him in lying to him about it. She doesn’t realize that he is not believing a word of it and that’s because, unlike her, Spike is very self-aware. Especially now that he has a soul. He is aware of his reactions and emotions being a reactive and emotional being himself. And they no longer parallel each other like they did in Season 6.

Don’t get me wrong. Willow is a very human - and therefore relatable - character… but she is still one of the most questionable characters in the show. I might be able to read her for filth but most people won’t be because her “innocent” act is convincing. And she might have learned that actions have risks and consequences coming back from the tail-spin of her lowest moment, but she’s still mentally and emotionally unstable. She’s still someone that is chaotic and not in control of her immense power. And I feel like if she even steps one toe out of line with Kennedy, she’ll regret it. The question is whether the girl can handle her being so heated herself. Or will she only serve to fan the flames even more? When push comes to shove, will Kennedy be able to quell the fire within? Tara could, you see. Every time the woman was about to burst, Tara could blanket the impact with her kindness and empathy. She perfectly balanced Willow’s nature with her own nature without really needing to try. The conversation Willow and Kennedy have just before making love would make it seem that Kennedy can too. But I’m not so sure once Willow really has to deal with adversity, she’ll be able to. I’m not so sure a more “assertive” type is the right person for her because I feel like they’re going to exacerbate their worst traits in each other when the going gets tough. They’ll eat each other alive. On the other hand though, Kennedy is much like Faith and Faith would definitely bring out in Willow her fun and liberated side as well as keep her in control and handle her fire. So maybe they could work 🤷‍♀️

It’s true. They did. But then they also knew what to do about her anxiety as well. They knew how to calm her down. Well, at least Tara did. Oz kinda just didn’t say anything. I feel like Kennedy may be too immature for Willow and that’s especially problematic when Willow can be as well.

But I could be very wrong about it at the same time. She could be somebody Willow actually needs. I guess it just depends.

[beatriceeverytuesday-old]

What do you think of Taffy (Tara x Buffy) as a ship?

Hi, anon! Pretty sure I received this ask before I reblogged a shipping ask game, but since I'm playing this now I'm gonna go ahead and answer for the game. Hope you don't mind!

What made you ship it?

Honestly, probably something boring like stumbling across a Taffy mood board on tumblr first planted the idea in my head. I don't think this one occurred to me on my own, but after I thought about it I really do love it :) Besides that, the scene in Dead Things definitely comes to mind as the first place my mind went once they occurred to me as a ship.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

First, the softness of it. These two have had very hard lives (and Buffy's continues to be hard and violent) and while we know Buffy also gets off on the violence haha I do like the idea of her having someone so gentle and caring to come home to at night when she's done slaying. Their friendship is incredibly soft and I imagine a romantic relationship would be as well, and I love that for them both. They've been through A LOT, in family and romance and life in general, they both deserve something that's just easy. I do love angst, but if I'm looking for something angst-free, this is a ship I gravitate toward because there's no complicated history. Pros and cons to both those kinds of ships, and I definitely enjoy reading/writing/thinking about both! While I love Taffy, it's honestly not one of my favorite ships, but it does make me happy :)

Secondly, I will admit that while I also ship Buffy with people she has a problematic history with, one of the things I love about Tara as a partner for Buffy is the lack of problems haha. Sometimes I want angst, sometimes I just want an easy read! Like in Dead Things for example, Tara values Buffy's trust and privacy, keeps her secrets, and proves herself to be a nonjudgmental confidante. She responds with nothing but love and acceptance and compassion, and Buffy absolutely deserves that!!! I know friendships have highs and lows, I know season 6 Spuffy is problematic from both sides (though I'm also a Spuffy shipper), but Buffy has never gotten to have a sexual relationship that she isn't punished or shamed for, and I think she deserves to have gay sex with Tara and to feel absolutely no shame for it!!! And from Tara's side of the ship, I love in Family when Buffy protects Tara from her relatives and makes it known that even if they aren't close yet, Buffy sees her as a person worthy of love and protection and someone worth sticking up for. The rest of the gang all rallies around Tara, but it's Buffy who speaks up first, and I love that.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

Honestly the only thing that's really coming to mind is that writing Taffy (which I have been brainstorming for and will attempt to do at some point) becomes problematic because Willow is dating Tara for about 90% of the time Tara is on the show, and therefore probably makes Tillow shippers unhappy. (I don't like making people unhappy haha.) And I do enjoy Tillow as well, so there are tricky decisions to be made (like do you create a fic where Tara/Willow never got together in the first place? Or do you break them up and make the breakup permanent? I have trouble imagining Willow being happy with her best friend dating her ex, especially if she's somewhere deep in her magic addiction arc...But I'm not gonna say anything else about that haha!)

[sugareey-makes-stuff]

16, 6, 1 and 2!

Hello! Since it's still February, here's what I've got for ya: 1. What was the first time you encountered canon femslash? How old were you? How did it make you feel? Oh gosh, probs in Buffy when Willow got together with Tara. I think I was a young teenager when I really wrapped my head about this because I had a friend who loved watching Buffy, and we'd go through marathons of it. I know that was definitely something to take in since she was trying to figure out her interests and sexuality, and at the time, I was there to support her. But it was nice to see some wlw on screen, since it just wasn't ever discussed anywhere else. 2. What was the first time you encountered fanon femslash shipping? So, I've been in fandom for quite some time (we are almost reaching two decades), and I knew HP had wlw ships like Pansmione, Linny, etc. Back then, maybe the circles or groups advocating for those ships were just really small, but then again, there were (and still are) so many possible ships out there for so many characters that everything was pretty overwhelming, and my brain back then could only focus one a few things at a time. 6. What's a femslash ship you feel like you're the only shipper of? I know only a few people who would totes be right beside me to scream about them, but I'd love if there was some more Cho/GInny aka Quidditch Girls love. They are such a fun ship to draw and write (and they both happened to have dated Harry once upon a time), but I could see their energy mixing really well. And if they were to compete with each other or play together on the Quidditch Pitch? Yasss! Gimmeeee! :D <3 16. Are you there any characters that headcanon as being lesbian or otherwise wlw without having a ship in mind for them? Honestly, I think Luna would okay being with anyone, but I really have always thought of her either being in a wlw relationship or at least having one companion who identifies as female to balance her out (if she's in a poly relationship). Thanks for the asks! ___ Want to ask more q's? Send them over for the Femslash February Ask Game!

[youcant-bemygirl]

We finished watching buffy last night and i was sobbing so much! It actually broke my heart a little bit! I felt so like emotionally drained after! But i have some thoughts about buffy in general, soilers ahead.

I dont think xanders character aged well and he is just so annoying from thinking buffy shiuld be in love with him to the general misogynistic commets he makes. Anya deserved better and the fact that after she had dies and andrew said she saved hia life he says 'thats my girl'. No it isnt xander you jilted her at the alter and then expected her to just go back to being gf and bf!?

The potentials storyline is so annoying, i think mainly kennedy. The way she acts like her opinion on how to deal with the first etc. Is needed when shes never even been in this situation and doesnt know about fighting demons etc. I also dont like her relationship with willow, i think it would have been better seeing the encouragement and love etc that kennedys character is there for coming from buffy and dawn in a friend/sisterly way. I dont think there was enough time for her to get over tara! Like she turned into dark willow because of the grief she felt and they were soulmates and then some bratty potebtial comes along and shes over it? Idk i just dont think the kennedy willow relationship added anything?

Also the whole kicking buffy out of her own house? Like wtf it was horribe and no one apologies apart from buffy who did nothing wrong? So annoying because this is something that always happens to buffy! She gets shot for being the slayer and doing her job and then has to apologies because everyone else is emotionally unready to be in the slayers life (mostly talking about riley here, hate him cannot stand him or the fucking goverment bs storyline !)

Which brings me onto angel, soooooo annoying like hes so moony and pathetic and annoying! The only good thing is that he lets buffy be the slayer and doesnt begrudge her!

I am also so mad that no one said anything about spike saving the fucking world! Like giles you tried to kill him, good job you didnt huh? Otherwise the world would have ended you fuck! Like it is so sad the all didnt believe he had changed (apart from buffy) and just wrote him off and then he saved their fucken lives! I couldnt stop crying and feeling so bad for him! Also hes so hot like i would have gone feral for spike as a teenager and i just cannot get over how hot he is!

I cant think of snything else but i loved watching it and i will probs watch again at some point (and will allow me to skip over the annoying boring parts, basically any scene with riley!) Which is a good sign!

[lostxdrcams]

Tag Drop | Tara | BtVS

[c-nan]

I have so many thoughts about this scene. Not only because I absolutely love the Summers sisters, but also because of the complexity and feelings behind it. For starters, Dawn is so relieved that they’re actually alive. This girl has been in so many near death experiences and this was the most peril one. At least with Glory, there was hope that Buffy could defeat her, but in this case, no magic or supernatural ability could. Giles straight up said Buffy couldn’t do it. And who else can do it if Buffy can't? No hope at all. Yet they survive anyway (thank you Xander) and theres this big sigh of relief from Dawn and she’s just so happy that they somehow made it. 

Then Buffy starts crying (which valid) and Dawn interprets that as Buffy being sad that the world didn't end. I mean, how could she not take it that way? the whole season Buffy has been checked out emotionally due to being ripped out of heaven. Life was better for Buffy when she didn't have one. Hell, her demon-induced escape mechanism was literally a world away from the slaying...away from Dawn. Not only that but Dawn has had so many people leave her, whether through death or emotional distance. Joyce...Tara...Willow...Buffy. The most important people in her life. Gone. There was even a whole episode about her feeling alone and abandoned. (And let's not forget that earlier in this episode (6x22) Willow tried to kill Dawn). So of course she’s gonna think that Buffy wanted the world to end and reasonably, Dawn was angry. 

But then she noticed that Buffy wasn’t disappointed the world was still in tact, she was happy, so happy she started crying. Now Dawn is no longer angry, just confused when Buffy asks, “You think I wanted the word to end?” And this is the part that really gets to me. It’s the speechlessness and the way Dawn’s voice is so small when she says “Didn't you?” She has long since accepted the fact that her sister wanted to die. That she just wanted it all to end so she could be happy and at peace (something Dawn couldn’t give her). She can’t fathom the idea that Buffy would want the world to keep going. Here, Buffy finally sees and understands the impact her emotional detachment has had. Her depression had clouded out the world around her and the people she cares about. So she apologizes (twice!) and hugs Dawn.

At this point, Dawn is still confused but she says, “It’s okay Buffy...Its okay” but it’s not okay and Buffy points it out. This is a turning point in their relationship which is shown in the first episode of season 7. Buffy sees Dawn less as an object to be protected and more as a person who can protect herself. She finally sees Dawn for Dawn, and Dawn realizes that her sister doesn’t want to leave. Buffy cherishes her and wants to be there as Dawn grows up, realizes that she wants to be present. In this scene, Dawn finally gets the confirmation that at least one person wants to and will stay with her.

[despite-everything]

Literally… WTNV was the first podcast I listened to. Downloaded on the podcast app of my iPod. Celios was one of the first times I had ever heard someone speak so softly about someone of the same gender. The perfect hair… the perfect teeth… my only other exposure to a queer relationship at that point had been Willow and Tara from Buffy the vampire slayer. Every tender Celios moment. Every phone call. It changed me.

exactly!! i started listening right after glow cloud came out. i remember loading episodes onto my ipod nano... it didn't host apps, but i'd put downloaded mp3 episodes of wtnv on it to listen to.

im not exaggerating when i say that wtnv has had a greater impact on me than any other media i've consumed - i was 12 when it came out, and i came out myself soon after. it was the one of the first (if not actually the first....hmm.) examples of explicitly (yet still positive!) queer representation in media i'd consumed. it changed my standards for how we should be treated (especially since i was in that whole superwholock thing... which was messy to say the least)

i mean, hell, i work at a radio station now. i am currently in the station (taking a break from paperwork) and i would have never been here if not for wtnv. it was such a magical show that made me love surreal horror and radio, but also changed my perspective on the world. in addition to the queer relationships, wtnv was the first place i'd ever heard a character use they/them pronouns. i'd come out as non-binary and had been using they/them pronouns for a bit over a year, and i remember listening to "a new sheriff in town" and hearing cecil use "they" in reference to sam and i literally froze and sat down to rewind the episode. it's just been so transformative and it breaks my heart when people don't see it as such

EDIT: wait im not done. i also want to respond to you saying it was the first time you'd seen queer love spoken about so softly and you're so RIGHT. and i feel like the show's perspective on life and the world is inherently queer and inherently optimistic, which is so refreshing. wtnv has some of my favorite quotes and exchanges in the world, and some of them include:

"Perfection isn’t real. Perfection isn’t human. And Carlos is not perfect, no. Even better — he is imperfect.

Everything about him, and us, and all of this, is…it’s imperfect! And those imperfections in our reality are the seams and the cracks into which our out-sized love can seep and pool. And sometimes we are annoyed, and disappointed, and that too is a part of how love works."

- Cecil talking about Carlos in "Condos" (also Carlos' long monologue preceding this)

"‘What’s the point?’ you ask. ’Why bother?’ you say. ’Oh, Cecil,’ you cry. ’Oh, Cecil.’ But then you remember - I remember! - that we are even now in another bit of molten wax. We are in a moment that is still falling, still volatile, and we will never be anywhere else. We will always be in that most dangerous, most exciting, most possible time of all: the Now. Where we never can know what shape the next moment will take. Stay tuned next for, well, let’s just find out together, shall we?"

- Cecil in A Memory of Europe

"...but no family member is perfect, they become perfect when you learn to accept them for what they are."

- Young Cecil in Cassette

"Are we living a life that is safe from harm? Of course not. We never are. But that’s not the right question. The question is ‘are we living a life that is worth the harm?"

- Cecil in Parade Day

"Listeners, I do not know everything about Carlos and he does not tell me everything. That is OK. We are not one person. How lonely that would be! A couple who has made themselves one so completely, that they are once again alone.We are two people, separate. Unique. And joined only where we choose to join."

- Cecil in The University of What It Is

"Everything is exciting! Particularly existence. Existence is the most thrilling fact of all."

- Cecil in Condos (okay let's just put all of Condos on this list, tbh)

and THIS is my absolute favorite exchange in the entire show:

Carlos: But I do know two things.

Cecil: What is that?

Carlos: I love you.

Cecil: I love you, too. What’s the other thing?

Carlos: You just said it.

[travllingbunny]

Thank you for the tag, @ryder616!

This tag game has unexpectedly led to an interesting discussion about what exactly an “Endgame Ship” means... which seems to be largely open to interpretation. I’m still not sure how I see that term, but for the purposes of this post, but to narrow it down and not mention way too many ships, I’ll take Endgame in two different meanings: for “Favorite Ship(s) That’s Endgame”, I’ll take it to mean pairings that were together and in a happy relationship at the end of the story. But for “Ship(s) You Wish Had Been Endgame”, I will take “Not Endgame” to mean that the ship was not treated as these characters’ main romance at the end of the show, or at least there was a lot of ambiguity and/or a rival ship for one or both characters was instead the current one at the end of the story. (A lot of my favorite ships have the tendency to end up unhappily in spite of being portrayed as the main romance of the story..)

Warning: this post contains spoilers for Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Agents of SHIELD, The Hunger Games, The Leftovers, The Americans and The 100 (though if you’ve spent any time on my blog, you’ve certainly already been spoiled for the ending of The 100) and .

1. First Ship - When I was about 4 or 5, I was obsessed with Lady and the Tramp (I had a book version with a few pictures and it fell apart from how much I was reading it - it may have been my first book that wasn’t mostly a picture book), so I guess my first ship was two dogs (which is really appropriate, since I love dogs). If we’re talking TV, again going back to my childhood, before puberty and before I even knew what “shipping” was, I remember being pleasantly surprised when Raquel first appeared on Only Fools and Horses as a love interest for Del Boy - the show was an episodic comedy where the two brothers, in the early years, usually didn’t have a serious love interest. I thought “oh, he really is in love with her! And she feels the same, and they are so cute together.” I hoped she’d come back and wouldn’t just be a one episode character but a long-term LI. And then I was so happy when that very much did happen. I guess this can be considered the start of my TV shipping (and also an early sign of my love for contuinity and longer arcs on TV).

2. First OTP - Ignoring pre-puberty: at the age of 12, I was really obsessed with Wuthering Heights and Heathcliff and Cathy and read the book who knows how mny times. Regarding TV, I’ve shipped over the years, but I guess the first TV ship I would really call my OTP was in This Life, a 1990s UK drama about a bunch of 20-somethings in London, which I watched on TV in 2001. which now sadly seems almost forgotten. Anna and Miles had an on-off, love-hate relationship throughout - they were sexy, snarky, and it was painfully obvious that they were in love, but these idiots had trouble admitting it to themselves and even more to each other. If it had been a romcom, they would’ve been certain to end up together, but it was a realistic drama.

3. Current Favorite Ship - Bellarke - oh, what an OTP of all OTPs that was before it was stupidly destroyed out of spite. Over the last couple of years, Dark (season 3 mostly) made me really love Jonas and Martha (the first pairing I’ve made gifsets about), and most recently (last month!), I binged Halt and Catch Fire and fell in love with the show and with Joe and Cameron’s relationship (which, I just realized now, shows that my taste in OTPs hasn’t changed in 20 years).

If we’re talking current as in, in current shows rather than finished ones, then  Kanej (Shadow and Bone), Harlivy (Harley Quinn), Gereon and Charlotte (Babylon Berlin) and  Roy and Keeley (Ted Lasso).

4. Your ship since the first minute - I really rarely ship anything from the first minute (unless we’re talking Morticia and Gomez, who are of course already a perfect couple and nothing ever changes there). It usually takes time for me to fall for a ship. A rare exception is Roy and Keeley - their first one-on-one scene in S1 already had huge OTP vibes. 

5. Ship(s) You Wish Had Been Endgame - Do I even have to say it? BELLARKE. A hundred times Bellarke, who were portrayed as endgame before the showrunner decided to retcon and ruin them together with the show overall.

Others: Jessica and Luke in Netfix Narvel shows, May and Andrew on AoS, Willow and Oz; or, depending on how you interpret Endgame, Willow/Tara (some argue that it is Endgame as Tara is definitely portrayed as the love of Willow’s life regardless of everything else). Spuffy (again, there are different opinions as to its status as both the show and the comics ended ambiguously and tried not to have a clear Endgame pairing for Buffy’s character), Xander/Anya (if you take comics into account).

6. Ship You Wish Was Canon - Some would say Bellarke, again, but I tend to consider it canon. It’s debatable, for sure (if you only consider making out/sex and/or “I love you” as markers of canon, it is not canon; if it is enough for the show to make it so blatant in the first 6 seasons that you have to actively search for ways to deny it to make it sound platonic, and for actors to confirm it was portrayed as romantic- than it is.)

So my answer would be: Kastle (Netflix Marvel shows), QuakeRider (AoS), and Octavia and Diyoza (The 100) and maybe Faith and Buffy (mostly in the sense that canon could have explored the nature of Faith’s feelings for Buffy a bit more and a bit more openly).

7. Ship that Most of the Fandom Hates, but You Love - Angel and Darla, May and Andrew, Coulson and Rosalind (hated how it ended though). Miller and Bryan (because they were more interesting than Mackson, and Bryan had a personality), Though “ships that most of the fandom ignores” would be a more apt term. The one that most of the fandom does hate and I like it is Octavia/Ilian - I liked it for what it was, two damaged people finding comfort together in what could have grown into something more - instead of the “we’re ve just met and talked to each other once and we’re already IN LOVE!” trope that the writers of The 100 were so fond of.

8. You Don’t Even Watch the Show, but You Ship It - Why would I ship something from a show I don’t watch?

9. Ship That You Wish Had A Different Storyline -  BELLARKE (duh - the ending). Veronica and Logan (the ending, again). Coulson/Rosalind - they had such an interesting and fun dynamic that could have been explored much more; instead, the writers opted for one of the worst tropes there are, and I hated that entire plotline for so many reasons. Tyrol and Boomer on Battlestar Galactica - what they did with Boomer was crap. Baltar and Caprica - all the bad writing in season 4. This is a weird example of a ship that I shipped so hard for 3 seasons and that was given Endgame in every sense of the word, but, by that point, I barely cared anymore, because the writers forgot about their relationship throughout the final season and made it seem like they didn’t even remember each other, and then slapped a last minute happy ending. Plus they retconed/explained their connection in such a stupid and anticlimactic way that ruined it retroactively.

10. Favorite Ship(s) That’s Endgame - Everlark, Nora and Kevin (The Leftovers), Philip and Elizabeth (The Americans), and Josh and Della on Night and Day (a really obscure early 2000s UK show that was watched by maybe 100 people.) Some others worth mentioning: FitzSimmons, Niles and Daphne, Tim and Dawn (original UK The Office), Jake and Amy, Memori (the only bright spot in a rubbish ending). And of course, there’s Morticia and Gomez, though they are less Endgame and more AlwaysGame.

Tagging: @jeanie205 @kizo2703 @poppykru @sheigarche @weareagentsofnothing @sometimesrosy @misskittyspuffy @otp-armada @carrieeve @sexy-zeitreise-detektiv @jonaskanwalds @immortalpramheda @ladyofthefrostfangs @tennyo-elf @fandomkru @natassakar @hadrianvonpaulus @sillier-things @angearia @thekawaiislartibartfast @foolishnymeria @erikiara80 @heartbellamy and anyone else who sees this - sorry I didn’t tag you and please consider yourself tagged. :)

[firemanwhenthefloodsrollback]

side character deaths in buffy

I've been thinking a lot recently about death in buffy, mainly inspired by Help and everything that has to say to us about avoiding, accepting and understanding death

obviously the main characters' deaths are heartbreaking, because they're written to be heartbreaking and break our relationships with characters we love and know well. buffy (twice), angel, spike, joyce, tara, anya, and all the many alternate universe and dream vision deaths that kill the main characters rip my heart out of my chest for obvious reasons. but today I've been thinking more about the deaths of people we didn't know that well and whose deaths we watch without knowing them well. so I'm gonna talk about some of those cause it's my blog and you can't stop me.

(for the purposes of this post I'm counting main characters as anyone who was in the credits, with the addition of joyce because come on)

Deputy Mayor Allan Finch/Warren in Bad Girls and Villains

These two deaths both make you gasp for the same reason - they're sudden, physically icky (warren has the edge here with the flaying but the dark blood and death rattle for allan is also horrible to watch) and while we don't have a lot of positive feelings for the victim, we gasp because of what it means for the murderers and how we suddenly realised this season is going to get darker than we thought. faith and willow both spend the rest of their time on the show dealing with the consequences of these deaths and the audience knows in the moment they happen what it has to mean for the main characters. we want to save faith and willow from the consequences of having done this. just like faith, we're confused in the dark when a figure comes towards the slayers and we don't realise what's happening immediately, and with willow we've been watching her friends approach through the forest the whole time she's giving her evil speech thinking they have to be in time to stop her because no way would the writers let willow torture a man to death on screen. If warren or the deputy mayor had died because of a demon or accident we probably wouldn't have noticed (in the deputy mayor's case) or we'd have actively applauded (I rly wanted to watch warren die).

Jesse in The Harvest

I'm guilty of forgetting about Jesse (and so is the buffy writers room when they fail to mention him for seven years) but killing off a character who looked all set to become a scooby in the pilot and then making his best friend dust him as a vampire was both shocking and showed us a lot of the issues the show would go on to consider in miniature, right at the start. we've had campy vampires running around and wisecracking, we've had vampires being cool and edgy, the master being a total ham, but then we suddenly have to watch xander grapple with the idea that vampires are more than strangers in graveyards, they're the people you knew with yellow eyes and no soul, they can talk to you with all their childhood memories of you intact. season one might do a lot of floppy cardboard monsters but Jesse's death tells us they fully intend to Go There with the horrifying psychological implications of what vampires can do to you.

Jenny Calendar and Kendra Young in Passion and Becoming

I think of these deaths together because they were both characters that we half-knew and thought we'd get to know more. they were both characters who we felt could have gone on to be in the credits, have their own plots, and had a lot left to explore on the show. having two slayers in town could have been interesting (and would go on to be interesting in season three) and as well as her love story with Giles, we'd just had the veil pulled back about Jenny's heritage and reason for coming to Sunnydale - so both of these deaths were in the horrible sweet spot of having got to know the characters more than someone like Jesse, but not feeling 'done' with them yet. they were both killed by vampires who didn't even feed on them, by neck injuries that weren't bites by 'big bad' vampires who were really after someone else. after their deaths they both set more in motion and had long thematic afterlives - we think about Kendra when faith is called, and when we meet the potentials, and Jenny gives us the soul curse and gets willow started casting spells. Kendra definitely deserved more remembering than she got, and in a world where Joss Whedon had more time for Black characters I like to think we'd have got more of her and Mr Pointy.

the normal teens buffy couldn't save

before I started writing this post, I knew this was where we were going to end up.

(Jonathan maybe doesn't totally count here but I did because his final lines made me so sad)

characters who chose to join a battle between good and evil and died as part of that fight break my heart, but at least with Jenny and Kendra they knew at least partly what they were signing up for. Larry and Harmony we knew enough to have compassion for, and even when they were mean they were mean in regular school kid ways rather than big bad evil ways. I went to school with all of these people and probably so did everyone else.

Larry and Harmony died on graduation day when they were meant to be becoming adults under posters that said 'the future is ours' - Larry was newly out as gay and Harmony was about to get out from under the popular girls and maybe become a person who could stand on her own two feet, and Buffy could have helped them if there'd been less murder and death going on everywhere around them. harmony as a screaming blonde teen was exactly the type of victim buffy saves ten times an episode in alleys outside the bronze. Jonathan had more of an arc but at the end, back in high school after making an optimistic, bittersweet speech about coming to terms with high school and being optimistic about the rest of his life, leaving behind Andrew and Warren's bitter obsessive revenge of the nerds fantasies.

and Cassie, my heartbreaking queen, the one that gets me more than anyone that I wrote about a lot yesterday, knew what was coming and that no one could save her, and all the things she listed that she knew she'd miss were teenage coming of age things. she wanted to go backpacking, attend college, go to a dance with a boy, and fall in love one day. the whole of Help, she's considering the rites of passage she won't get to do, and in her therapy sessions Buffy tries to inspire her to want to go to college or join the french foreign legion. for buffy, saving Cassie means giving her a future. we haven't met the potentials or heard the word potential yet in Help but this episode is all about potential, and Buffy's attempts to save a life meaning safeguarding someone's potential and right to grow up.

[sunnydaleherald]

The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Friday, March 29 - PART TWO

BUFFY: (smiles) Hey! SCOTT: Hey, Buffy! Uh, Faith has been telling me tall tales. BUFFY: (smiles big) She's funny. (takes her arm) And she's leaving. We have to go. SCOTT: (disappointed) Oh... FAITH: Bye. Buffy pulls her away and down the hall.

~~Faith, Hope and Trick~~

[Images, Audio & Video]

Artwork: [Buffy comics art panels created by Georges Jeanty] via g33k_gal (various, worksafe)

Artwork: [Let's watch shark boy and lava girl. buffy x willow] by pzyii (Buffy/Willow worksafe)

Artwork: Good times by isevery0nehereverystoned (Anya, Faith, Tara, worksafe)

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Gifset: there's my girl :) by redcheekdays (Star Trek Voyager parallels, Buffy, Faith, worksafe)

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[Reviews & Recaps]

BTVS/Angel Rewatch Chronicles: Seasons 4/1, Part One [The Freshman to Wild at Heart] by QualifiedApathetic

BTVS/Angel Rewatch Chronicles: Seasons 4/1, Part Two [Sense & Sensitivity to Somnambulist] by QualifiedApathetic

Anyone go to the Buffy comedy show in London last night? by Prudent-Memory-6129

Season 6 gets better and better after every rewatch by Kindofaddictedtotv

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Who needs enemies when your friends are assholes [Revelations and other eps] by J_n_Space

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Spike and Joyce having cocoa with mini marshmallows is such a brilliant scene. by Soulless--Plague

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after finishing the series [ATS], I fucking hated what they did to Gunn and Wesley by b3_k1nd_rw1nd

the [ATS] finale was seen as divisive cause the "big battle" was not portrayed, thats surprising as hell to me. by b3_k1nd_rw1nd

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[dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram]

I'm not that anon but regarding queerbaiting, the idea that real people can queer bait is absolute bullshit to me. I am not going to morally judge people for engaging in queer culture regardless of their sexuality. I think in most conversations about queerbaiting tend to ignore that art can have multiple interpretations and meaning. Also you can't always know the intentions of the creator. I would love to hear your thoughts.

So I think there are several layers to my belief and the more I think about it the more certain I am that 'queerbaiting' doesn't describe anything that actually happens in the world, and that I'm opposed to the ideology behind the idea that queerbaiting exists and is bad.

Like you I think the idea that individual people might be 'queerbaiting' is absurd and I want to emphasise two different aspects. The first is just the way they're imagining queer culture with this hard boundary that has 'straight people keep out' around the outside, has absolutely no relationship to any queer culture I know of. From Judy Garland down, whether you're talking at the iconic level of cultural creation, or at just people sitting round hanging, there have always been straight people who interact with queer culture.

While the point about the harm that the idea of 'queerbaiting' does to closeted people in this context is a good and necessary one. I think it concedes too much. I think it's important to entirely reject the idea that queer culture was, is or should be, queer only.

But implicit in all this is the argument that there are people (often celebrities or people with some kind of brand) who are engaging with queer culture in a cynical way. Not because it speaks to them personally, or to show solidarity, or because they want to relate their art to what has come before, but simply to build a brand to make money.

And I wonder all the time - who are people talking about? Who are people thinking about? What is the harm that they see doing? And how on earth would you know that someone else's engagement with queer culture was entirely to make money?

The starting point of discussions is 'queerbaiting is wrong', but I've never seen anyone make a solid argument that queerbaiting is real. If it was an actual phenomena, then there'd be many many examples. And I've just never seen any evidence that it's true and the idea that it is seems to handwave away the systematic homophobia in the industry.

I'm actually really curious about where this comes from and what people are anxious about. So if there's anyone who is reading this who genuinely thinks people queerbait or is worried about it - I'd be interested in what examples you have of who is doing damage and how.

I would make the same argument when it comes to pop culture. It is so recent that creators have been able to tell queer stories with any sort of freedom. In 2001, Joss Whedon (who is part of my history of popular culture, even though the stories I was telling about him were very wrong and he was a total fuckwit) had to threaten to quit to get a kiss between Willow and Tara on television. Given that level of structural homophobia, why would you assume bad intent for indirect queer stories? There are so many other explanations, particularly as you say when popular culture works have so many authors.

And again I'd like to argue - what pop culture are people actually talking about when it comes to queerbaiting? And what evidence do they have that there was some sort of trap with bait in it - rather than different interpretations of an incoherent work.

There are two key aspects of 'queerbaiting' as understood by those who think it's real and should be opposed that are heavily implied but never adequately discussed. One is that it's harmful, which I think may be true under some circumstances, but I think that it should be demonstrated not assumed. And the other is that queerness that is not resolved to the satisfaction of the viewer is there as the result of someone else 'baiting' them. It's grounded in assumptions about other people's intentions. It's always dubious to ground the legitimacy of your response on your assumptions about other people's intentions. It's particularly dubious when the assumptions about other people's intentions are so lacking in evidence.

And on top of all of this I think policing queerbaiting does harm that is far more definite than anyone has even suggested that queerbaiting does. Policing the boundaries of queerness is bad for people figuring out their sexuality, it's bad for closeted people, it's bad for most queer people, and it's also bad for queer culture. Generally the most resonant or generative or liberatory queer culture has not come from people trying to stop other people relating to queer culture.

[girl4music]

There’s lots of people that feel it went too far with the addiction storyline and feel that Willow is OOC for it but for me it made perfect sense and I’m glad they went there because internal problems can and do manifest externally when they’re that that concealed. Emotional addiction can turn into physical addiction. The metaphor can become literal. For me it was a very brave choice to go there. And you really gotta love the way Willow’s magic-addicted mind works. Her way of “fixing” the destructive and violating shit she does is to do something even more destructive and violating.

I mean observe the last three episodes: ‘All The Way’, ‘Once More, With Feeling’ and ‘Tabula Rasa’ for example:

Willow has constant fights with her girlfriend about her abuse of magic. Her way of “fixing” their relationship breaking down because of their constant fighting is to erase her girlfriend’s memories of their fighting about her abuse of magic with magic and then have sex with her while she can’t remember the memories about the recent fight they had that would immediately negate her consent to have sex or any physical intimacy with her at all. Then when that whole incident gets involuntarily exposed, Willow then decides it’s a good idea to erase Tara’s memories about that whole incident and now Tara can’t even remember who the fuck she even is at all. I don’t know about you guys but I would say that’s grounds for a restraining order, never mind just a break up. I mean fuck me, if she carried on any further with that mindset of “magic will fix everything” she’ll probably end up killing the woman out of just being incredibly reckless and careless with her.

Oh, Willow…

Like sweetie, this method to sweep your addiction under the rug never worked the first time. What makes you think it’ll work this time? Keep crossing this never-ending dangerous road and you’ll get either yourself or someone else seriously fucking hurt. Honestly, every time something difficult or traumatic happens to you or even just something you don’t like, you pull out those magic books. Magic is not gonna fix yours or anyone else’s overwhelmingly hard life darling. It’s gonna be the reason why somebody you love and that loves you loses theirs! Likely your girlfriend. You know the woman you claim to love and care for but can’t seem to stop abusing. She’s literally begging you to sort your extremely toxic shit out or she’ll leave you! I mean she really kinda has to considering you doing the insane immoral shit you’re doing with your beloved magic puts her life in danger! And yours! And everyone’s else’s! Girl, stop or you’re gonna end up the thing you desperately do not want to be. Alone and uncared about! You’re gonna end up wrecking your love life, your friendships and your mental health in one fell swoop m’dear. You really need to quit now ‘cause this addiction is going to ruin your life.

But also please don’t because this is juicy 😈

[firelxdykatara]

I really like hearing your thoughts on ships, so I was just wondering what you thought about the episode 'Seeing Red' from Buffy as a Spuffy shipper. I love the ship too and remember being so uncomfortable watching that episode. It felt like it came out of no where while I was marathoning the show

Ok so, I’ve been sitting with this for a while (my inbox is telling me it’s been 10 days......time plz stop moving without me noticing), mostly because it’s... a really Touchy topic, for a lot of (very obvious, to anyone familiar with the episode or the arc) reasons.

CW for discussion of attempted sexual assault and rape ahead. (I’m gonna talk a bit about Willow too.)

First of all, I wanna state that I understand why Seeing Red was a ‘point of no return’ for many people. There are a lot of people for whom sexual assault/rape is The Thing they simply cannot get past and they could never see Spike or Spuffy the same again, and that’s valid and understandable. For me, personally, I don’t consider it any more or less reprehensible than murder or anything else vampires and demons get up to in the show because they’re monsters and very specifically Not Human, but at the same time it felt gratuitous and unnecessary (like the writers were trying to remind us Spike was really evil right before he went to get his soul back of his own accord, and I’ll talk a bit more about that later), and the episode itself is difficult to watch. (Also because it includes Tara’s death, which wrecks me to this day.)

It’s also been a very long time since I’ve seen the episode in question, mostly because I haven’t done a full rewatch in years, and when I do watch Buffy it’s either starting from the beginning and then losing track of where i was and starting over again, or else jumping to random episodes throughout the show which I enjoy and watching those by themselves (and Seeing Red is very much not on that list lol). So I rewatched it just to refresh my memory and....god there are a lot of other reasons I don’t care for this episode. (Xander was exceptionally horrific to Buffy re: finding out she was sleeping with Spike. Gods I dislike him more and more the older I get.)

In general, it’s just a really hard episode to watch. (And I’ll never forgive Joss for finally putting Amber Benson in the opening credits, only to kill her that same episode.) There’s a lot of ugliness, and the Trio are among the worst villains in the show--not in terms of how they’re written (they feel kind of terrifyingly realistic, although they also seem kind of exceptionally meta in light of how much has come out in the last decade about Joss Whedon’s own attitudes and behavior and treatment of women), but because every other big bad with very few exceptions has the excuse of being a soulless vampire or a demon or a hellgod or some other monster that can’t really help the fact that they were made that way. The Trio are just normal dudes who think they’re entitled to women and money and power and are willing to do absolutely anything to get all three, proving that maybe it isn’t really the presence or absence of a soul that actually makes humans, like, humane.

But that’s me side-tracking. As far as Spuffy goes, yeah, this episode is pretty brutal. There’s no mincing words here--Spike attempted to rape Buffy, and he only stopped and had his ‘oh my god, what have I done’ realization after she managed to kick him off. If she hadn’t, he probably wouldn’t have stopped. And I can almost understand it, from a writing perspective--how do you make a soulless vampire realize that he’s truly a monster and, further, how do you finally get him to want to change that? Make him cross a line he never had before. Except... that really wasn’t necessary. Not for his character arc, nor for his relationship with Buffy, and a part of me thinks that it was really intennded to just drive home the message that Spike was a monster, and that Buffy could never really love him, and the easiest way to communicate that was sexual violence, something that the show never really had its vampires engage in previously. So it would be a shock to the audience, it would throw Spike’s motives into question when he went to get his soul back, and it would make his presence in season 7 a constant question, plus provide a reason for Buffy not to trust him.

I think all of this could have been achieved without the sexual violence. I think the scene was largely done for shock value--again, to douse the audience with ice water and remind them that Spike, no matter how chummy he’d seemed with the Scoobies since getting chipped and eventually working with them, was still a monster. But we really didn’t need that reminder, and I think it would’ve made more sense for him to simply attempt to kill her--still a betrayal, still shocking, still something that could spur him into the actions he would take afterwards (going to get his soul restored), but without the exceedingly uncomfortable attempted rape scene in a season where there had already been serious issues with consent.

I’m talking, specifically, about Willow.

There’s something interesting I’ve noticed in fandom, and it’s that people really don’t seem to want to talk about or acknowledge the fact that Willow raped Tara. Maybe because it was via magic, rather than violence--or because it was never really called what it actually was in the narrative, or because they’re The Gay Ship of btvs, I don’t know. But she did--when she spelled Tara to forget about their serious fight which had been building for weeks, and then went to bed with her. And then explicitly had sex with her the next day. It’s part of why I’ve always had a complicated relationship with “Under Your Spell”--I love the song, but it’s also literally spelling out the fact that Tara’s mind had been violated by the woman she loved and she could not consent to sex while under the spell.

So that moment was already toeing the line in terms of consent and at least Tara was able to talk about how Willow violated her mind and how that made her feel (in song, at that), but Seeing Red was like a slap in the face. Where Willow’s magic addiction and willingness to cross those lines had been building for more than a year, Spike attempting to rape Buffy came out of nowhere. This isn’t a show that explored any really complicated relationship between vampires and consent (in The Vampire Diaries, for example, vampires have an ability called compulsion and compelling humans that they then have sex with is pretty normal and no one really blinks about it, human or vampire; it’s definitely still rape, but it’s not treated as anything particularly beyond the pale, because they’re vampires who can control the minds of their prey and don’t tend to consider the feelings of their food sources to be of any real importance), and while the vampires are hot and have sex, there’s never been any indication that they sexually assault humans in addition to feeding on them.

I think that specific scene in Seeing Red is the hardest to watch in the entire show. There’s really nothing like it in any other episode or with any other villain, and it has a tendency to sit in the back of the mind and sour feelings about Spike and Spuffy because it’s genuinely difficult to forget. I’m not sure if the intention was really to turn people off Spuffy (especially since he got his soul and came back in season 7 and Buffy forgave him and fell in love with him), but that was certainly the effect it had on a lot of people.

For me, personally, like I’ve said I don’t like the scene and I don’t think it was necessary, which is why I tend to ignore it as much as possible when I’m thinking about Spike and Buffy and their relationship. It’s a thing I know that happened, but I also know that I don’t think it was particularly fitting from a character perspective, and that makes it easy for me to file it away as sloppy writing and generally OOC, and move on. Again, I can definitely understand why some people can’t or don’t want to do that, but I also know that a lot of people continue to love Spike and Spuffy and I don’t think I’m alone in considering that moment to be OOC for him and generally try to ignore it in my meta and other analysis of the show.