One thing that makes me laugh about Hori's world building is the question are heroes allowed to kill, since Hori is a coward who can't decide, it disrupts the world building to an absurd degree. If Izuku had aimed to kill Tomura from the start, then Hori's narrative would have rewarded him. Izuku would still have OFA, possibly Ochako as his girlfriend and applauded as a great hero. The standard hero ending. But Izuku tries to save Tomura and fails miserably and is forgotten by his friends and the public. What is Hori trying to tell us? Kill then ask questions later? Based on the story Izuku should have taken Gran Torino's advice, he would be sad in the short term but he would have been happier and forgotten about the LOV.
Hi @agentterios 👋
MHA'S whole narrative messaging around the subject of "are heroes allowed to kill?" Is presented in an incredibly confusing and unsatisfactory manner.
Horikoshi doesn't directly address the question however, he does indirectly address it by introducing a variety of elements to his story surrounding the question itself.
You have things like:
The development of nomu intelligence. By the nomu's developing basic human intelligence this makes it so that the line between being human and a nomu so incredibly slim that if well developed this plot point could of been tied to heteamorphis discrimation with a side of people taking the route of one has to look human and another side pointing out that humans don't have a specific look in mha. There could also be more development with endings point of the only difference between nomu's and humans is that one is a puppet. This would make civilians question societies expectations for what a human is and would the heroes kill them next because they are comfortable with killing nomu's who are almost like them
Hawks and twice. I have talked about hawks and twice a numerous amount of times but my point still stands hawks could of saved twice instead of killing him. Yes, hawks did try in the beginning of the fight and his mission to semi try and save twice as his intention was to never kill him until dabi intervened and hawks lost it reverting to what the hpsc taught him and taking out the danger infront of him. Now, hawks should of had more introspection on this decision realising that he could of saved twice yet didn't and couldn't because he viewed himself not to be fast or capable enough to stop twice and chose to revert to instincts and the hpsc teachings of killing to dispose of the threat. Hawks could easily link his experiences and give advice to izuku about shigaraki. Hawks also needed more public consequences about killing twice because why the hell is the public more concerned about hawk's villain father then the fact that he killed a man? Was this to show where societies priorities are at? How messed up they are? And if it was why wasn't this brought back up?
Lady nagant. We needed more of lady nagant in general. The way she was used and created to be a killing machine. The way she only killed those who didn't fit the status quo even izuku's own reaction to her killing needs to be studied. The way izuku didn't have much of a reaction to her killing people but he had a huge reaction to finding out that she specifically killed the previous minister of the hpsc makes me think that hero society has a huge belief thay certain lives are much more important than others and that ranking is never fully explained but it seems like the outcasts of society like twice and the people lady nagant killed aren't important and wouldn't evoke a huge reaction to people because they don't care for them and hero society has infulenced that belief.
Izuku and shigaraki . This is the biggest element in the story and the most underdeveloped in my opinion. Why does izuku want to save shigaraki? Why does shigaraki only want destruction? Everyone encouraged izuku to kill shigaraki and believed that his death would be the only way to stop everything and in a way they were right. Shigaraki had to die for this to be over and it just seemed so badly done. Izuku gets labeled as a murder but also praised (barely) for his actions. Its so weird, how am I supposed to expect that society is going to rebuild itself to a better version when it ended in the most repetitive and toxic way by killing and upholding the status quo.
Endeavour and his aggressiveness. Enji has multiple records of flipping attempted murder whether that be him viewing vigilantes and villains as objects to be easily killed like nomu's or the fact that he cannocially has many reports of property damages.
Dabi's fate. My point stands that death would of been mercy for poor dabi. So are there cases when killing should happen or should all villains be forced to live even if it has to be through horrible circumstances like dabi's? At this point it seemed like toga's death was a better ending then dabi's.
In conclusion, mha's status quo was never really broken or rebuilt into a better version and the discussion surrounding the question should heroes kill? Was never properly answered or changed.
The series begins with the answer that Yes! Heroes can kill but they can only kill villains and rejects of society while keeping all of this away from the public eye. However, if it is in the public eye just dehumanise the victim, its not like hero society didn't continually threaten villains with all the graffiti in toga's House or the publics reaction to dabi.
(Ps I do think that izuku was handed the short stick and would of suffered either way. Even with the horrible execution the series make it clear that izuku chose a thorny, hard path but what's worse is that the path doesn't seem to be worth it or hasn't changed anything)
Also izuku's whole arc doesn't depend on him having a love interest and a quirk because he could be a hero without those things it's the execution that sucks
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what are ur fav tropes for stoic whumpees? love da blog
stoic whumpee tropes that are a 100/10:
"I'm fine" and then immediately collapsing in front of their loved ones in a bleeding pile, revealing a hidden injury that has festered for far too long
silent, muffled crying with shaking shoulders and a bloody hand clamped over their mouth because they view crying as weak and beneath them and they're stronger than this, they're stronger, they can take it--
the moment they close their eyes in defeat and it's all over and they fucking know it, and when they open their eyes again all that remains is a glassy-dead stare
adamantly refusing medical treatment even when they need it. Shoving away everyone who comes close to them, a choked sound in their throat, fighting back with everything that's left in them.
when they kneel at Whumper's feet, eyes on the ground, white-lipped and tense. The only betrayal of emotion is their clenched fists and tight breathing. In every other way, they're compliant.
refusing to talk about what they endured at Whumper's hands after they're rescued, but the scars tell the story for them. They don't have to say a word, but their team's pitying gaze follows them wherever they go
normally unaffectionate and distant but exhausted and defeated they rest their head on Caretaker's shoulder or Whumper's lap, just finally admitting--nonverbally-- that they can't take it
reversely, more willing to be tortured than to ask for help-- If I'm breathing, I'm fine
stitching their own wounds back up with an unsteady hand, painful stitch after painful stitch. Deep breath and pull. Working in a dimly lit apartment with bleeding clothes on the floor around them and the bed unmade
sacrificing themself for their team. "Take me! Do what you want to me. Not them." And their team watching as the torture takes its slow toll and Whumpee-- the one they look up-- falls apart.
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I know they’re not an older man per se, but lately I’ve been thinking about Jason or Dick having a good cop-bad cop dynamic with Slade, where Slade is just incredibly mean to you but then Jay or Dick is there to coo sweet words at you
I know the obvious here is Bad cop Slade, good cop Dick or Jason. And I love that. Good cop Dick especially is MWAH! 💕 and I absolutely need to write actual smut for this, anon you beaut! Like Slade pistoning into your puffy, swollen, cum-filled sex, calling you ever name under the sun. Spanking your red raw ass, and calling you weak when you start to sob. But its okay baby, shh, shhhh. Dick is underneath you, kissing your tears, stroking your hair telling you how good your doing as if he's not contributing to your overstimulation, fuck!
But I implore you to stick with me here when I say, AK! Slade and Jason - bad cop, WORSE cop.
Specifically: AK!Jason/Bat!Reader/Slade
As per, Slade is loyal to the money, but this is definitely a darker portrayal of Jason.
Warnings: Dub-con, swearing, interrogation kinda, choking, restraints, humiliation. No smut, but maybe I’ll write an extension.
The first thing you notice is the smell, you're underground somewhere for sure. Then you feel the cold, a chill across your warm skin, making your hair stand on edge. From that, you register very quickly that you’ve been stripped down to your underwear.
Appalled, you shoot up, reaching to cover yourself but only manage to make it an inch before cold, hard metal cuts into your body. You're tied to a chair by a multitude of pressure points that both hurt and rouse something salacious.
Shit. Shit shit shit. You can’t believe you fucked up this bad. Bruce had told you to get out of the city but you’d refused. You had to be on your top game but you’d fucked it, caused more problems.
Accessing your surroundings your eyes dart around the room until then fall on your captor. Deathstroke is sat a few feet away, leaning back on his chair, seemingly examining something on a tablet. It's hard to tell, the one eye hole in his mask shrouded by shadow. You hadn’t expected him to be at the militia checkpoint. He’d taken you down easier than you’d like to admit, but you’d put up a fight. Tooth and nail. So seeing him so relaxed without so much as a chip in his armour is a little disheartening.
“Trackers in your suit, right?” His deep voice echoes through the room, making you jump. “I would’ve just patted you down, but the boss man didn't want to take any risks.”
His head turns, and you can feel his eye raking across your bound and exposed form. “Not that I'm complaining.”
You recoil into yourself, disgusted by his blatant perversion, and the warm flush it sends through your body.
“Tell your ‘boss’ to come face me himself.” You spit between gritted teeth. His response only adds to your unease.
“Don’t you worry, pet. He’s on his way.” It’s infuriating, the name, the way he words things so tenderly but laces it with obvious, sickly amused derision. If you could feel any smaller, that would do it. “And between you and me, I get the feeling he’s pretty excited to get his hands on you.”
As if on queue, the piercing sound of an opening door creaks behind you. Despite the squeaky warning, you nearly jump for a second time when it slams shut once more. Heavy boots forebodingly stamp against the concrete floor. As much as you want to, you refuse to crane your neck to get a better look. It’s all you can do to maintain even a little bit of power.
“Well, well, well.” The modulated voice is even more sinister in person. His hand grabs the back of your chair, pulling you back a few inches, no doubt just to prove that he could. To instil fear. He leans over you, close enough that the cold metal of his helmet brushes the side of your face, but still, you refuse to look at him. “If it isn’t Baby-Bat.”
“Don’t call me that.” Your venom surprises you. You haven’t heard that nickname in years and it brings out a visceral reaction. It’s what Jason used to call you in jest. Baby-Bird and Baby-Bat, heroes in training.
“Or what?” He challenges, shaking one of the wrist shackles, as though you’re not already well aware of your less-than-ideal predicament. “You’re in no position to be calling any shots, babe.”
“Not for long. Batman will save me, he’ll save the city.” He has too. “You won’t get away with this.”
“Ha.” Deathstroke’s sneer is dry. When you look over to him he gestures his head toward the top dog but you remain resolute in your refusal to look at him. “I’d keep that name out of your mouth, if you know what’s good for you.”
“Wh-“ The words are cut from you before you can get them out. The Arkham Knight, either pissed at your pitiful attempt at a power play, or the mention of Batman's name; lifts you and your chair completely by your throat, turning you mid-air, then placing you back down, precariously balancing you on the seats back legs before getting in your face. All the while his tight grasp on your neck never waivers.
Face hidden, tall, broad, he’s an intimidating sight. The whole display makes your heart race.
“He…” Red-hot rage drips from every word, and you feel your body temperature rising to meet it. “Can’t. Save. Shit.”
The sound of his ragged breathing is amplified by whatever tech he’s using to distort his voice. Each pant sends a shockwave through your body. And you press your legs together to suppress its effect.
“Get fucking comfy.” He barks as he releases you and stands back, watching as you heave for air and teeter wildly before willing the chair to balance on all fours. “Cause he’s not coming for you. Nobody is.”
“Case in point.” Deathstroke finally approaches. It takes his long legs less than 5 steps to reach your side. He stands about half a foot taller than the already gigantic Knight. The way in which they both tower almost impossibly tall makes you tremble, and you’ve no idea if they notice. You can’t stand the added authority they possess simply by being clothed and masked while you sit practically naked for them. Fear is one thing, you can handle being afraid, you’ve been trained for that, but their deliberate show of power, how they make you feel so fragile is awakening something you don’t know how to curb. “Take a look at your hero.”
A screen is thrust into your face, a live feed of a rooftop somewhere in Miagani Island. Batman is on his knees, fists pounding the floor. His mouth is moving but you can’t lip-read him from the angle. Clearly, he’s not okay. This isn’t like him, he must be dosed up on something. In the depths of your brain you know he’ll overcome it, he’ll save Barbara, you, everyone. But you can’t deny how dire things are beginning to look. The doubt must show on your face because The Arkham Knight's robotic voice lets out a short, cold laugh.
“Now you’re getting it.” The wicked pleasure he gets from teasing you is ten times worse than Deathstroke’s blatantly false niceties.
“W-why am I here?” You internally curse yourself for the way your voice breaks. It sparks you to muster a little more spunk as you keep questioning them. “You could have killed me, why didn't you? What do you want?”
“Bring us up to speed on what he knows.” Deathstroke poses. “His new hideout.”
“How he’s getting his gear patched up.” The Knight continues. Neither are looking at you, having turned the tablet back to themselves. “We know you know.”
When you don't respond The Knight slants his helmet upward to consider you, slowly cocking it to the side as you stare him down.
Eventually, Deathstroke follows suit. You wait until the device is tucked away, until you're certain you have their full attention to speak. “I won’t give in that easy.”
You keep your chin up as they turn to look at each other, but despite your bravado, you flinch when Deathstroke sharply drops into a crouched position. The rough fabric of his tactical gloves scratches the soft skin of your inner thigh as he wedges his fingers between your legs. You’d been pressing them closed, hiding how their interrogation had inadvertently been siring your arousal, but he pries them apart, shattering what little dignity you had left.
“Looks like he owes me another 10.” He nods at you before he turning back to the man in question. The Arkham Knight returns the look. Assholes, they’d bet on you. Now they’re having a silent conversation one in which you are the subject, but aren’t important enough to be privy to. Humiliating.
Finally, Deathstroke removes his hands, tracing them along your torso as he saunters behind you but before you can clasp your thighs back together The Knights boot comes down on your crotch, in a fast, precise motion. Pressing hard enough to make you keen and squirm. The chair rocks unsteadily beneath your withering.
“I thought you were better than this Baby-Bat.” No voice distortment can disguise his zeal. Something in the back of your brain suspects he’d been expecting, even hoping for this. And while you certainly hadn't been, you can't deny the sick intrigue you feel for whatever they have planned.
In shame you turn your head, screwing your eyes together as though blocking them out might make it all disappear. The grate of Deathstroke’s gloves on your face keeps you in the moment however, keeps your moral compass spinning.
“Gettin’ paid to break a cute thing like you.” He sounds wistful, gruff voice sinfully musing in your ear as he forces your head forward once more. “That’s a good day's work.”
“And you will break.” The determination in the Knight’s tone, the loudness of it has you peeking through your lids at his mask which is now inches from your face. Fear and excitement invoke a shiver that runs down your spine. “We’ll make you come apart, piece by piece, and we’ll enjoy every second.”
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Hi, so I was thinking about and as much I think shig and Izu are underveloped as fuck...I was thinking...what if the saving arc thing was in reverse?
Shig sees how the heroes mistreat Izu, who in his eyes must be the most innocent person in all this mess, and decides to save him?
Sure sure it would need some tweaks as Shig needs to stop being all destruction and be afo's bootlicker.
But imagine the idea
Shiga, a villain, is set to save a hero.
Imagine of the possibilities. And if we want a war...why not Izu and Shig against the hero society and the status quo?
Hi @mikeellee 👋
This is an interesting route to take shigaraki and izukus characters and dynamics in.
While I do perfer the idea that both izuku and shigaraki want to save each other believing that the other needs to be saved and that their method is the best.
This is an equally interesting scenario that would add more development and interest to just izuku wanting to save shigaraki because he saw a crying kid.
For this scenario to occur there will be some adjustments required such as shigaraki coming to the conclusion that he wants to actually save something or someone instead of destroying everything. This can be easily achieved by having izuku and shigaraki interact more with shigaraki coming to know and understand izuku better as a person and vice versa. Shigaraki needs to understand izuku to a deep core level to even understand just how mistreated izuku was in the past and is kind of now.
You can start with shigaraki in the mall going to izuku for advice and have the interactions build up from there. Izuku won't tell anyone due to a variety of factors like not fully trusting adults and believing that its better if he were the one to talk to shigaraki since he isn't being harmed by him.
Ultimately, the closer they grow the more they share to each other and the more they see each others lives in different lenses which has shigaraki helping izuku see that the way he is being treated by bakugo is wrong and that all for one is just manipulating shigaraki.
Obviously, it would take a lot of development to even come to this point and it would be interesting to add obstacles within their paths whether that be the downfall of all for one and all might, the overhaul arc and the rise of the MVA , etc.
Finally, moving back to the first point the series would have an interesting irony in where a villain wants to and is willing to save a hero. Where a villain manipulated for the means of evil breaks that structure because he wants to save a hero, where a villain becomes more humane and heroic than the others, where a villain understands and develops helping change society for the greater good with the resources he has due to the MVA.
The same can apply to izuku but in the opposite way.
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