#that’s the term that’s being used against me and I am mentally ill (ofc | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

notabled-noodle · 2 years

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Ok so the whole diagnostic system is a hyperfixation of mine, and I usually will take any chance to talk about it, but I also am rather depressed and stressed atm, so we'll see how much energy I got for for this ask.

I think my main concern about how people talk about/use the dsm/icd has to do with a misunderstanding of what the diagnostic systems are, the basis of their design, and their intended use. And when I say people I don't just mean laypeople, I am definitely including psychologists and psychiatrists etc in there, too. As a matter of fact, I find these misconceptions most concerning when coming from supposed experts.

The modern version of diagnostic manuals has a lot to offer and a lot of practical applications, but its primary downside is that people (including doctors) largely tend towards seeing it as reflecting some universal truth about humans, and thereby to elevate the diagnostic categories of mental disorders to "biological fact", when in fact, they are more readily understood as social constructs (potentially based in biological facts, as are some such constructs). Now, there are also a lot of people who have understood this, but who take it "the wrong way".

Since people will say that if diagnostic categories are "social constructs", this means that 1) they can have no biological basis/component, 2) the symptoms of these disorders are potentially made up/induced, 3) the experience of having X disorder is not real, 4) biological intervention for mental disorders don't make sense/can't be effective/real.. etc. People will make these kinds of wrong statements based off the notion that diagnostic categories cannot be thought of as inherent biological/medical categories.

So naturally, a lot of people who push against these wrong and harmful beliefs, will end up seeing the idea of "mental illness as a social construct" as a red flag/dog whistle for someone very likely being ableist. For this reason, a lot of reasonable people, end up pushing the agenda of mental disorders/diagnostics being based in irrefutable inherent medical/biological categories, to push back against these ideas.

Therefore personally I often feel that it's difficult to discuss these things, esp in an online setting, where many people aren't looking for nuance, but for snappy truths and statements, that signals them to be "the good guys" to their respective ingroup.

Bc personally after years of formal and informal study and reflection, I strongly agree that the categories are very much manmade and to an extent self perpetuating, but at the same time, they are not based in nothing, and they reflect very real experiences of human beings, that have their basis in biological, social and psychological factors.

And ofc this has implications for how we use and talk about these categories, but ultimately, it doesn't make them not real. Me being bi is a social construct, but the experiences that lead me to identify with the term "bi" are not. And being "bi" is very much a real thing. Humans exist in social space. And so on. (Inherently bad example, sorry, but my brain is tired).

One of my major pet peeves with how esp psychiatric doctors as a group misunderstand their own field, has to do with their logic surrounding psychiatric drugs.

A common example is related to the "chemical imbalance" theory of mental illness. Let's use adhd as an example. We have found, pretty much through trial and error as usual, that central simulants affect and alleviate some of the symptoms of adhd for a lot of people. A lot of these drugs esp boost dopaminergic action at certain receptors/sites etc. Great. But then a lot of people take it a step further, arguing that adhd is "not enough dopaminergic action at these sites". (Similarly, this notion posits that depression is a lack of serotonergic action, psychosis is too much/dysregulated dopaminergic action etc etc). Now, there can be some merit to these ideas or not - they are a valid hypothesis based in an observation. But for the most part, we're struggling to prove any such relationship.

This doesn't mean that the drugs aren't helping though. But the way I see it, it indicates that the drugs have ~an effect on the brain~ which happens to alleviate some symptoms associated with this or that disorder. In other words, the drugs aren't treating any specific disorder, but a (set of) symptoms.

That's fine!! We also use pain medication across many different disorders, and in that sense, the psychiatric drugs are pretty specialized, able to alleviate different kinds of psychological pain etc.

What I don't like is, that many psychiatrists have deluded themselves into thinking that they are treating the underlying disorder/issue, that certain drugs "belong" to certain diagnoses, and that this means the same symptom in two different people, who has the symptom "because of" different disorders, is inherently different, and should be treated differently on every level.. which can be true.. but that can equally be true in people with the same diagnosis... People with depression are unlikely to all have the same underlying biological, social and psychological factors..

On a personal note, this kind of thinking meant that despite me -in a stroke of luck that would eventually win me the argument- having been diagnosed with adhd before I got my schizophrenia diagnosis, I had to fight for years upon years to be allowed to get central stimulant medication, which I desperately needed to complete university. Because "all the symptoms of adhd can be attributed to schizophrenia, and we don't believe that we should/can treat this group of symptoms in people with schizophrenia + it carries a statistical risk of triggering psychosis".

The latter is true, and ofc one needs to be careful with any amount of mixing and matching of drugs, but the idea that if symptoms of adhd aren't strictly obviously only caused by "adhd itself", they will never respond to stimulant medication, is simply untrue.

Anyways uhhhh I have ranbled enough.. I'm sorry this is not very coherent or comprehensive, ... My brain is not in an organized mood ^^"

I have likely said shit that can be misunderstood in an unfortunate way, so please ask me "wtf do you mean by that", or ask about my specific take on specific or edge cases (like autism etc), rather than extrapolate what I might mean, and get upset..

I am notoriously good at putting my foot in my mouth when I'm trying to communicate, so I really appreciate the benefit of doubt ❤️

Have a nice day!!

I see where you’re coming from for sure. this is a really difficult conversation to have for sure, because it’s way too easy to push too far in one direction or the other. I grew up hearing that mental illnesses weren’t real, and so I tend to push back against that in a very “worship the science” way (I’m trying to get better at seeing the nuance here!)… so if any of my response seems unnuanced or whatever, that’s probably why

but as someone with a lot of mental illnesses, a lot of neurodivergences, and a lot of physical shit, I can see how it gets messy quickly. I can never know fundamentally if my migraines are different from what people experience with a different disorder, but I do know that the recommended treatments are similar. meanwhile, I can also never know if my anxiety is the same as my sister’s, but I can know that treatment that works for her is not at all working for me

I think this balance has to be struck in all social sciences between the generalisation and the individualism.

so. generally, a combo of drugs and ERP is the gold standard treatment for OCD. but if a psychiatrist/psychologist goes into that with a one-size-fits-all approach, it’s not really going to work that well. as time passes, people are starting to figure out that OCD and GAD aren’t actually super different from each other, and so some people with OCD benefit more from the kinds of treatments typically given to someone with generalised anxiety

I can see how it can get really messy though. you’ve got some people who have OCD because of genetics, and some people who have it because of trauma, and that’s going to end up changing the underlying issue. my OCD is probably going to continue being bad until I sort out the trauma part.

I’ve never been a huge believer in medication in general (for myself), because of some of the reasons you talked about. I don’t want to be treating symptoms without looking at the underlying cause. and maybe that’s pig-headed of me, but what can you do

the biggest thing for me is that I think some people have the tendency to ignore the underlying causes and motivations of different disorders when they talk about anti-psych type arguments. two disorders can look like they have similar symptoms, but then come along with completely different internal experiences, and that’s kind of what matters the most

I don’t know! the DSM/ICD are not pieces of scripture. and I think actually universities and other training facilities need to work with mental health professionals on how to look for the causes, rather than just the symptoms (this work is probably already happening, just definitely not at my uni (I’m not taking psych but I have friends who are, and our program is a dumpster fire))

I’m sorry if this makes no sense, it’s starting to get late here… but I just wanted to get these thoughts out because yeah! it’s complicated! and I understand both sides here

(I am interested in autism as an “edge case” actually! you don’t have to answer straight away, but it would be cool to hear your thoughts)

#sorry if I misunderstood anything #but yeah! interesting conversation #asks #tw drugs

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wiypt-writes · 3 years

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Riding High

Ch8: Adler vs Adler

Chapter Summary: The gloves are off in court as Frank faces off against his mother.

Chapter Warnings: Bad Language words. Talk of suicide.

Chapter Pairings: Frank Adler x OFC Fliss Gallagher

A/N: Contains SPOILERS for the film!!!!! If you haven’t seen it please be aware of that before you read on. Also, those of you who do know this film well will see that I’ve changed the dates referenced in the court case, that’s because I brought the timeline of Gifted forward from 2015 (when it was filmed) to 2017 (when it was released). This was mainly to suit Fliss’ backstory of the Olympics. 2015 is too close to 2012 for me to make it work. Also Frank’s middle name is an absolute H/C too as I couldn’t find it anywhere so, sorry if this annoys any of you but, to quote @icanfeelastormbrewing- “my coffee, my fic, my rules…”

Disclaimer: This is a pure work of fiction and classified as 18+. Please respect this and do not read if you are underage. I do not own any characters in this series bar Fliss Gallagher and the other OCs. By reading beyond this point you understand and accept the terms of this disclaimer.

Riding High Masterlist // Main Masterlist

Chapter 7

“And love, if your wings are broken, borrow mine so yours can open too…’cause I’m gonna stand by you”

The first bit of evidence the next morning was the findings of the Welfare Department’s investigation. It had thrown nothing out of the ordinary up. The house was clean enough, Mary was fed, but they did point out that their current living arrangements wouldn’t be suitable for much longer as Mary would need her own room as she grew older, something which Frank’s attorney accepted on behalf of Frank, stating to the court that Frank had already considered this. Which in fairness he had. The Welfare Department continued then, stating that Mary’s interview the previous day hadn’t thrown up anything of concern, even if there were some questionable TV viewing habits, namely Ultimate Fighting on a Saturday night, but they were satisfied that overall Mary was suffering no ill effects, mentally or physically from being with Frank.

This took them just under an hour, as they were factual reports. Both Attorney’s requested clarification on certain points but there were no questions or cross examinations to be done. As such they had concluded just after eleven am and there was then a small ten minute break to allow a quick consultation between clients and attorney’s before Evelyn was to take to the stand. As people moved around, passing papers and files to one another, Frank turned in his seat and just as he glanced round, someone left the courtroom and through the open door Fliss walked in, dressed in a smart pair of black jeans and a light blue strappy top. He flashed her a smile and she gave a small wave, settling onto a seat next to Roberta who gave her a hug. She’d missed the early session due to having to sort the horses out but she’d cleared her diary and brought in cover for the rest of the day so she could be there to lend him support.

And even though the morning had, all in all, been favourable to him, Frank felt his spirits raise even more at the sight of her there in his corner so to speak. Tearing his eyes away from her, Frankturned back to Greg who was watching him, eyebrow raised.

“Well that’s a mighty big smile Frank.”

“I just spotted some additional back up, that’s all.” Greg turned to see the woman who was now talking to Roberta and he grinned, spinning back to Frank “Let me guess, Fliss?”

Frank nodded “Yeah, I’ll introduce you later.”

Greg raised his eyebrow, smiling a little. “I look forward to it. Anyway, back to business. That opening report from the Welfare Department was good, well as good as it’s gonna get. But dude, Ultimate Fighting? Really?”

“It’s harmless fun.” Frank shrugged

Greg shook his head “Whatever. This next bit ain’t gonna be as easy.” “No shit.” Frank mumbled, looking at his mother as she said something to Highsmith, her attorney. “She’s going to rip me to pieces, and no doubt enjoy doing it too.” “Yep.” Greg nodded “But just keep doing what you’re doing. No outbursts, stay quiet, focussed and listen. If she says something that isn’t accurate, or you think of anything we can use, note it down and I’ll use it in my cross examination, okay?” Frank nodded as Judge Nicholls banged his gavel down and issued instructions for everyone to reconvene. He called Evelyn to the stand where she was sworn in and Highsmith stood up and began firing questions at her, a well-practiced dance, Frank could tell.

From the gallery Fliss watched intently. She’d been missed the first session but Roberta had hastily filled her in, telling her it had gone well. She shot Frank another encouraging smile, just as the judge called them back to order, and couldn’t help but notice how good he looked in his suit. A far cry from his dirty jeans and ratty work t-shirts. Which, if she was honest, she preferred…

Evelyn took to the stand and Fliss felt herself bristling as she proceeded to utterly character assassinate Frank, depicting him as nothing more than an irresponsible bum, floating around with no purpose to life, a man who didn’t care about Mary’s welfare, preferring to simply fly by the seat of his pants instead of giving her any decent roots or thoughts to her needs. At one point, they started to question his motivations towards taking Mary being more about punishing Evelyn that actually caring about the girl. To this Frank’s attorney objected and as the two lawyers began to argue, Fliss found her nails cutting into her palms as she clenched her fists. Roberta gently reached out and squeezed her arm and she turned to the woman next to her and gave her a tight smile.

“Frank’s attorney, Greg Cullen, he’s good…” Roberta whispered, “He’ll go at her when he gets his chance, you’ll see.”

The objection was overruled, the judge telling Cullen he would get his chance to challenge that statement in his cross examination, and Cullen sat down, leaning over to whisper something to Frank who nodded, his eyes not once leaving his mother. Cullen jotted something down as Evelyn continued.

By the time she finished it was almost one pm so they broke for lunch, Judge Nicholls instructing everyone to be back in an hour. Fliss and Roberta headed outside to wait for Frank who met them shortly after.

“Hey.” Fliss gave him a gentle hug. ��How you holding up?”

“About as well as I can for someone whose own mother just tore them to shreds under oath.” Fliss’ eyes narrowed “I hope your guy is gonna give her as much of a shredding as she gave you.” “I’ll do my best.” A voice spoke from behind them. Fliss spun round to be greeted by Frank’s attorney.

“Fliss, this is Greg Cullen, Greg, Fliss Gallagher.” Frank introduced them to one another. “I’ve heard a lot about you.” Greg smiled at her, shaking her hand. Fliss looked up at Frank and was surprised to find a faint flush of red on his cheeks.

“All good I hope?” she grimaced and Cullen nodded.

“Oh, very good indeed. I’ve been dying to meet the woman who’s made such an impression on him.” “Greg, piss off.” Frank groaned in a tired voice before he nodded over the road to the café “Shall we grab some lunch?”

They ate together, making small talk, before Greg requested Frank join him alone for fifteen minutes to go over their plan for the rest of the afternoon. Frank stood, and without even thinking about it gave Fliss a quick peck on the cheek. He winced as soon as he had, noticing that Cullen and Roberta were watching him and, knowing Fliss was going to get an absolute drilling from Roberta, he shot her an apologetic look as he walked away. She simply smiled through her blush and shook her head, turning to Roberta who nudged her arm.

“Okay, what was that?” Greg asked as they walked back over the road. “Are you two erm…”

“It’s complicated.” Frank shrugged after a little pause. “We both, well we both like each other but with everything that’s going on we’re just kind of waiting, I suppose. I’m focussing on getting through whatever it is that happens with Mary and then hopefully...what?” he trailed off as Greg was smirking at him.

“Frank Adler. Finally found a girl he likes that much he ain’t simply trying to get her into bed. Wait till I tell the guys.”

Frank rolled his eyes and pointed to the courtroom “How about you concentrate on what’s gonna go on in there instead of what is or isn’t going on in my bedroom?”

Greg gave out a chuckle and patted his friend on the shoulder as they made their way in and headed into the side room they had reserved.

****

“Mrs. Adler, in your earlier testimony here today, you painted a pretty dim picture of your own son don't you think?” Cullen asked, tapping his pen on his note pad. Frank remained stony faced, watching his mother.

“I'm under oath, I take no pleasure in it.” She said with a glance at Frank before she looked down, almost convincingly.

Frank just about managed to refrain from rolling his eyes.

“So, your son is a failure in life, your daughter took her life, you know, you're oh for two.”

Fliss winced and glanced at Roberta as Highsmith said “Objection” in an almost bored voice

“Withdrawn.” Cullen’s voice took on an amused edge but as Fliss watched as Evelyn simply eyed him, completely un-phased.

“If I go one for three, I'm in the Hall of Fame.” she shot back.

“You know baseball.” Cullen pushed his chair back. “Fenway Park.”

At that something flickered in Evelyn’s eye as she glanced at Frank. Fliss followed her gaze and watched, just able to see the side of Frank’s face. His eyes were locked onto her, his expression never faltering.

“You know, I'd like to go there sometime.” Cullen stood up, pushing his glasses up onto his head as Evelyn turned back to him “How often in a year did you take Diane to the baseball game?”

“Diane wasn't interested in sports.” Evelyn replied

“She never wanted to go to a game? Ever?”

“I don't recall her ever asking.”

Cullen moved forwards a step and Fliss saw Frank’s eyes flick to him as he continued to question his mother.

“Just out of curiosity, Fenway, that's a tough ticket. Where do you get yours?”

“My husband has season tickets.”

“And how long has he had them?” Cullen enquired

“Thirty years. But I've only been married to him for twenty.” Evelyn informed him.

“And Diane never went to one game?”

Evelyn didn’t reply, simply raised her eyebrows slightly as if she was failing to see the point. Fliss’ eyes once again flicked to Frank who still hadn’t moved an inch.

“What colour was the dress Diane wore to prom?” Cullen changed his line of questions.

“Diane didn't attend the prom, because she didn't attend the high school.” Evelyn replied calmly

“No prom.” Cullen mused before he asked suddenly.“What sports did she play?”

“As I told you earlier, she wasn't interested in sports.”

“She’s calm.” Roberta whispered to Fliss as Cullen continued to question Evelyn about Diane’s lack of interaction with other children her age.

“Too calm.” Fliss nodded. “But I can see what he’s doing, trying to paint a picture of how she isolated Diane to imply that she’d do the same to Mary. You’re right, he’s good.”

As they tuned back into the examination again, Cullen took a deep breath and glanced to his left

“Mrs. Adler,” he looked back at her, “who's Paul Riva?”

At that Evelyn glanced at Frank, her calm mask slipping ever so slightly but still Frank didn’t move. Fliss could see his expression now carried a faint, and every so sad, smile.

Evelyn gave a silent huff before she looked back at Cullen “He was a boy from the neighbourhood.”

Her tone was clipped and Fliss noticed the judge sit forward slightly at her shift in attitude, narrowing his eyes a little as he watched her curiously.

“Oh, come on. He was much more than just a boy from the neighbourhood. Paul was Diane's first love. Wasn't he?” Cullen asked.

Fliss and Roberta exchanged a glance.

“I wouldn't characterize it that way, no.” Evelyn shook her head.

“And how would Diane characterize it?”

“Diane was seventeen years old at the time. She didn't know anything about love.”

At that Fliss caught the first movement Frank had made since his mother had started talking. He took a deep breath and looked to his left before turning back, his shoulders moving slightly in frustration as he shook his head slightly, his eyes locking back onto his mother who was carefully avoiding his gaze.

“Mrs. Adler, in January 2000 didn't Diane and young Mr. Riva run away together?” Cullen looked at her.

“He coerced her.” Evelyn corrected with the air of someone picking her words carefully.

“And where did they go?”

“Vermont.”

“And you called the police, didn't you?” Cullen stated rather than asked.

“Yes.”

“Because he kidnapped her?”

“Yes”

“And where did the police find young Mr. Riva and Diane?” Cullen looked at Evelyn

“I told you, Vermont.” Evelyn looked at Cullen, her voice suddenly taking on an icy edge which made Fliss lean forward slightly.

“Stowe, Vermont. Wasn't it? A resort town.” Cullen looked round the court room as Evelyn shifted uncomfortably. “Stowe Mountain. He took her skiing. You see, kidnappers don't usually take their victims skiing.” Cullen paused from his explanation. When he spoke again his voice was calm, and slow, stressing the point perfectly “But this is what Paul did because he and Diane were in love.”

“No.” Evelyn refuted firmly

“And when they returned, you pressed kidnapping charges.” Cullen’s voice rose in volume and speed as he spoke. “You filed a lawsuit against his parents, until Paul stopped calling Diane. Didn't you?”

“Yes.”

“And Diane never heard of or saw Paul Riva again. Did she?” Cullen’s tone was harsh, accusatory as he stared at Evelyn.

“Poor girl.” Roberta mumbled besides her and Fliss shook her head, in utter shock at how a mother could be so damned cruel and out of touch with her own daughter. It made her feel a pang of sympathy for Mary’s mother despite never having known her. Fliss couldn’t imagine what she would do without either of her parents being as supportive as they were.

Evelyn must have answered as by the time Fliss turned her attention fully to what she was saying, as Cullen had asked another question.

“And how did she take it?”

“She was upset for a while. She lost focus.”

“She lost focus.” Cullen turned back to the desk and picked up a small file. “Mrs. Adler,” he turned back, file in hand, “in March of 2001 didn't Diane Adler attempt to take her own life?”

“This episode was minor. It was nothing.” Evelyn replied, her tone harsh.

“Nothing?” Fliss drew in a breath, shaking her head. For a moment she almost lost herself in another memory, of one rainy afternoon in Boston in October 2015, but she took a deep breath and focussed on where she was, as Cullen flashed the file at Evelyn.

“I have the hospital report in my hand.” he informed her

“It was nothing.” Evelyn said again, and now Fliss could see she was rattled. “Diane was not like regular people. She was extraordinary. And extraordinary people come with singular issues and needs.”

Fliss watched as Evelyn leant forward, her face creased in anger as she hissed “You have no idea of the capability she possessed. One in a billion. And you would say fine, let's throw that away, so the boy who cuts our yard can make a sexual conquest? Well maybe before you make that decision, you stand in my shoes. I had responsibilities, which went beyond the mother-daughter relationship.”

She took a deep breath and spoke again, her voice louder this time “The greatest discoveries, which have proved life on this planet have come from minds rarer than radium. Without them, we'd still be crawling in mud. And for your information, counsellor, a year after this incident with this boy Diane thanked me for my intervention. She realized she'd made a mistake and she thanked me. You see, Diane understood. She was accountable for the gift she'd been given. And she didn't shy from it.”

Every inch of Evelyn’s face was contorted with a mixture of pain and anger, and she radiated absolute fury across the courtroom as her rant built to its climax

“And I think, if she were here today, Mr. Attorney, she would refute your baseless insinuations, that she would give up her brilliant future and take her own life just because mummy didn't get her a little red wagon

There was a pause as she took a breath and sat back.

“No more questions.” Cullen said simply, turning back to his seat.

Fliss watched Frank who shifted, rubbing his chin with his left hand, his fingers curling round his jaw in an L shape as he stared at this mother, his face completely unreadable to anyone who didn’t know him, but to her she could see the pain in his eyes.

And from the look Evelyn gave him, it was obvious she’d seen it too.

***** When Mary returned home on the school bus that afternoon, Frank did his best to remain positive and keep his broodings to himself, and was thankful when Fliss suggested they head out for dinner with Roberta. The four of them went to the same restaurant he had met his mother at not long before where he ate, not really tasting his food, or listening as Fliss and Roberta chatted away. Instead his attention was completely on Mary who was stood with one of the waitresses at another table, pouring sand out of one of the bottles that was used to keep the tablecloths from blowing away. The thought that she could be without such simple pleasure of looking through sand for shells, and lost to a world of pressure and solitude like Diane had been, was breaking his heart.

He felt someone squeeze his hand at the same time Mary held up a shell and showed it to him. He took a deep breath and tried to rearrange his face into a smile as he turned to face Fliss.

“It’s going to be okay, Frank.” She looked at him and he swallowed, unable to form his words. Instead his fingers tightened around hers and she simply held his hand whilst they finished up their drinks.

Later that evening, once Mary was asleep inside the apartment, Frank and Fliss sat outside the kitchen door, shoulder to shoulder along the top step.

“You know, until I met you I thought sitting on a porch drinking beer was something only red necked hillbillies did.” Fliss teased him.

“Well, according to my mother that’s what I am.” he scoffed.

“And according to me your mother is a callous, cold hearted bitch.” Fliss spat, with such venom it made Frank look at her, his eyebrow raising a little. She took a deep breath, her voice softening “How can anyone dismiss a suicide attempt as nothing.”

Frank looked away, taking a pull from his beer. They sat in silence for a moment before Fliss broke it.

“You know back in 2015, about five months after I’d gotten married, I almost did it you know? Killed myself.”

Frank’s head turned to face her. She wasn’t looking at him, instead she remained focussed on a spot in the distance as she stared straight ahead. “My life was out of my control, and it was the only way I could think of getting some of that control back. So I took a shit load of buproprion and washed it down with half a litre of vodka.”

“Shit, Lissy I’m sorry, I had-” She waved his sympathy off and continued “After that I was offered all this help and support and-” she snorted bitterly, “I still went back to him. He convinced everyone, including me that the issue was the fact that I was still brooding over my career being cut so short, and then told me that having a kid would fix the issue. In reality there was no issue to fix. I wasn’t depressed as such, I was abused. And that was simply another way of him taking control.”

After a moment she turned to look at him, “I’m not saying your mother abused Diane, not as such but she isolated her for her own, selfish reasons, no matter how she tries to dress them up or convince herself that it was for Diane’s own good. That first suicide attempt your sister would have made a normal, loving parent sit up and pay attention to what was going on. I know it did mine, as Bill never trusted John’s explanation, not one word.” “I should have done more too.” Frank’s voice was choked as he looked down at his feet. “But I was so busy, wrapped up in my finals and…”

“Frank, Diane wasn’t your responsibility, you’re not her parent.”

“No but when Dad died, I promised I’d take care of her, always be there for her. I should have done more, and I should have known, when she turned up that day at mine with Mary…”

“Frankie.” Fliss cut him off, her hand taking his. “Take it from me, my mum and dad and brother went through all of this in their head. Did Diane give you any warnings at all because I know I didn’t? Look at the lies and the world of fantasy I let John build up round me and detract from what was going on. I told nobody I was gonna do it Frank. And I told no body why I did it either.”

Frank sniffed and wiped at his nose slightly with his free hand.

“So you can either carry on beating yourself up over something that isn’t your fault or you can concentrate on getting the best outcome here for Mary.”

He reached for his beer which was on the step below him between his legs and nodded. She was right, he knew she was, but there would always be that part of him that wondered if he could have done more, it he should have done more.

“Are you planning on coming tomorrow?” he asked, looking at Fliss.

“Yeah, Joanne is covering again.”

“I don’t want to put you out.” he said gently, but she shook her head.

“It’s sorted.” Fliss smiled. “She wants the week of Thanksgiving off so she’s racking up the favours.”

“Well, from a purely selfish standpoint I’m glad.” He flexed his fingers against hers, looking down at where they were entwined.

“I’m not missing your testimony, if only for the sole reason of discovering what your full name is.” she teased as he looked at her. Frank gave a huff of a laugh “Francis Preston Adler, nice to meet you.” He tipped his bottle in her direction. “Preston?” She snorted “Get out of town! There’s a place in England called Preston, it’s like thirty miles away from my home!”

Frank smiled, before he sighed.

“Last day tomorrow isn’t it?” Fliss looked at him as he stared straight ahead.

He let out a breath “Yeah, well last day of evidence. Then we have to wait for however long it takes the judge to read all the reports and make a ruling.”

“Well then, I suggest you get some sleep, or as much as you can.” Fliss kissed his cheek, and with that she released his hand and stood up. Frank followed her lead, rising to her feet. “Oh, and FYI I got an absolute interrogation off Roberta before when you did that to me. Felt like it was me in the dock, not Evelyn.” For the first time all evening Frank laughed.

******

The gloomy, rainy morning matched Frank’s mood perfectly.

He sat in the dock dressed in his suit, feeling as out of place as anyone could. Greg went through the questions he had coached Frank on, questions designed not to paint him as a saint but to simply be real and portray him as a normal person, doing the best he could for his niece in line with his sister’s wishes. Frank answered them honestly. Was he perfect? No. Had he done things correctly? No. Did he wish he had spotted Diane was struggling? Yes. Did he love Mary and want the best for her? With every breath he had.

The questions continued along those lines until they broke for lunch. And then came the cross examination, and Frank knew he was in for a beating.

“Mr. Adler where are you currently employed?” Highsmith asked sitting on the desk to the left of Evelyn.

“I repair boats.” Frank answered clearly

“Oh, really? At which marina?”

“I don't work at a marina. I freelance.”

“So, safe to say, no health insurance.”

“No.” Frank shook his head

“About a week before your sister took her life what were you doing for a living then?”

“I was a teacher.” Frank replied.

“You're being modest, aren't you?” Highsmith said, standing up and walking towards the dock “You were a professor at Boston University Isn't that right?

“Yes, well, assistant professor.”

“And what'd you teach?”

“Philosophy.”

“Truth and logic. That sort of thing.” Highsmith gestured with his hands and Frank simply smiled as the man continued. “Your attorney said that the primary reason that you took Mary is because it was what your sister would've wanted you to do. Is that a truth?”

“Yes.” Frank implored

“So Diane had visited Pinellas County before?”

“No.” Frank said with almost an air of amusement on his face as he looked at his mother for a second before he glanced down and joined his hands in front of him in his lap.

“She indicated she wanted her daughter uprooted and moved here?”

Frank shook his head, closing his eyes. “No”

“No.” Highsmith repeated “So you decided to bring Mary here, didn't you?”

Frank licked his lips and drew in a deep breath as he simply stared as his mother. He was pleased so see her shift in her seat

“Did Diane had a problem with your health plan at Boston University?” Highsmith pressed.

Frank wanted to laugh. The guy was doing exactly what Greg had warned him he would do, attack his lack of healthcare, insinuate he wasn’t able or fit to provide for Mary. When he spoke his voice was calm, and he fought to keep his face as amicable as possible.

“Not to my knowledge.”

“Do you think she would want her daughter to have access to healthcare?”

Dumbass question

“Of course.” Frank nodded.

“So what do you do, when little Mary gets sick? You repair a doctor's boat?”

Frank scoffed a laugh as Cullen objected.

“Sustained.” Judge Nicholls shot Highsmith a look and Frank stole a glance at Fliss. If the situation wasn’t so serious he would have laughed at the identical look she wore to Roberta, both glaring at Highsmith like they were plotting his very painful death.

The rain outside continued to drive down as did Highsmith’s questions, the air punctuated every so often by a low rumble of thunder from the outside storm echoing what Frank was feeling inside.

“Prior to Mrs. Adler giving her one. Did Mary have a computer?”

“She used mine.”

“Mr. Adler, does Diane's daughter have her own bedroom?”

“No.”

“Does she sleep in a bed that you bought in a second hand shop?”

“Yes.” Frank looked ahead, focussing on keeping calm as Highsmith walked towards the dock, gesturing now with his hands, his tone winding up

“So, the truth is, Mr. Adler, that you didn't come down here because your sister wanted it to and you certainly didn't come here because it was good for Mary.”

Frank swallowed slightly and shifted a little, avoiding looking at the man as he tapped his hand on the side of the dock.

“No, it was personal. Diane was a star. You weren't. Diane got the attention. You didn't.”

Frank scoffed silently, oh please, and turned to look in the opposite direction.

“..and over the years You got angry. And here comes Mary. What a great way to get even.”

At that he audibly sighed. He had known this was coming, that his mother’s attorney would try and paint him as petty and vindictive but it still hurt to hear it. Hurt that his own mother would have someone attack him in such a way. He’d defend Mary to the hilt if someone was doing this to her…

“You've uprooted that little girl and brought her here for one reason only. To do harm to your mother. You blamed her for your sister.”

“No, I don't.” Frank broke his silence.

“And Mary to you is just a pawn in all this.”

And that did it, Mary wasn’t a pawn. She was a little girl, a little girl who he was doing is best by.

“Diane wanted Mary, to be a kid” Frank’s voice betrayed his desperation and emotion, and he knew that, but now he was past caring, this was the truth, it was how he felt, and he was nothing if not honest. He locked eyes with his mother as he spoke, driving his words home “.She wanted her to have a life. She wanted her to have friends and to play…”

At that his mother looked away, her eyes glistening but Frank kept his on hers as she turned back to him, his final words were almost whispered

“…and to be happy.”

“You realize the consequences of boredom for a gifted child, Mr. Adler? They become resentful and sullen.”

“Mary's not an angry kid.” Frank’s voice was calm once more.

“Really? Did she not attack a child on the school bus?”

Shit.

“A twelve year old tripped a seven year old and she came to his defense.” Frank shrugged slightly

“Did she break the boy's nose?”

“Yes.”

“On October 16th last year, were you arrested for assault?”

“Oh, my God.” Frank groaned, and he looked down before he glanced back up, momentarily locking eyes with Fliss who he noticed had taken a deep breath. He looked back down, shaking his head

“You have to answer the question Mr. Adler.” Judge Nicholls reminded him

Frank swallowed and focussed on a spot on the varnished surface of the wood in front of him, just by the microphone. “A drunk idiot attacked me and I defended myself. What does that have to do…”

“Did you spend the night in jail?” Highsmith cut him off.

“Yeah.” Frank nodded.

“You are in way over your head here. You're depriving that girl…”

Frank stayed still, shaking his head and glaring at his mother, all the while Highsmith continued ranting on at him

“…you're gambling with her future and now you’re being presented with an opportunity to do right by her.”

“Does council have a question for my client?” Cullen asked loudly

“Take the high road, Mr. Adler before she's rapidly damaged.”

“Does council have a question for my client or not?” Cullen repeated, this time standing up.

“Yes, sir. I do have a question.” Highsmith said. “Tell us. Is your continued guardianship really in the best interest of this little girl?”

“You do your best, Frank. And that’s all any of us can do…” Fliss’s voice rattled in his head, and he took a deep breath. No he wasn’t perfect. Yes, Evelyn could provide for her better than he could but could she love Mary like he did. No, no she couldn’t

He stared at his mother, as he lifted his chin and spoke loudly and clearly.

“Yes.Yes, it is.”

“I have no further questions.” Highsmith spoke.

Frank scratched at his head and left the dock.

***** Following the summing up, they were all dismissed. Frank shook Greg’s hand who told him he would be in touch and Frank left the courtroom with Roberta, Fliss nowhere to be seen. He took a deep breath, realising she was probably going to run a mile after hearing about the assault. That wasn’t how he wanted her to find out. However, to his amazement and joy she was waiting for him by his truck. Roberta nodded to him and made an excuse to nip over the road to the store for a water leaving them to talk alone.

“Thought you’d gone?” he said gently.

“No, I had to take a call from Joanne about a lesson. Why would I leave without saying goodbye?” she frowned

“The assault”

Fliss sighed “Okay, I admit it was a shock to hear but…”

“At least let me explain.”

“There’s really no need. You said you were defending yourself and I believe you.”

“He was a drunk idiot.” Frank continued anyway. “I was actually out with a friend, Jacob and his fiancée, Lisa. Jake had gone to the bathroom and this guy bumped into us and sent Lisa flying into the table, knocking a load of glasses over. When I told him to be careful he took a swing at me only he missed and, well I didn’t.”

“You’re a regular knight in shining armour, Sailor.” Fliss smiled before she looked at him softly. “I know that was hard today. I was so angry and the things he was saying to you but it’s done now. Try not to think on it because you can’t change the outcome. Whatever it is, you did your best.”

“You know I remembered you saying that to me.” he smiled, “Right as he was telling me what a lousy life I give Mary.” “It’s not lousy.” Fliss shook her head. “She’s loved Frank. And she’s happy.”

He smiled again as she took a deep breath.

“Look, I have to go, I have a lesson in an hour now this rain has let up, but what are you doing tomorrow night?”

“Working.” he said, chuckling as she raised her eyebrow. “Yeah I know, second Friday night in a row but, well I’m behind thanks to this case and whilst Roberta has Mary I can get a good few hours in during the night and then get my head down for a few hours before she comes back.”

“How about I keep you company?” Fliss offered. “Only if that’s ok?”

Frank smiled “As long as you don’t distract me too much.” “Wouldn’t dream of it.”

**** The next evening, Frank and Fliss were in the workshop at the Marina, Frank explaining to Fliss the different components of the oil filter he was stripping down. She gave a loud, exaggerated yawn and he nudged her playfully. She grinned at him, and he didn’t miss the flash in her eyes as she looked him quickly up and down, taking in his dirty jeans, hands covered in oil and his long sleeved thin blue sweater which he knew fit him pretty well. Part of the reason he had worn it.

“Hey.” a familiar voice said, and they both looked up to see Cullen as he stood in the entrance.

“Hey.” Frank frowned “What’s…” “I got some news, and I wanted to give it to you in person.”

“I’ll er, give you a moment.” Fliss offered, and she went to leave but Frank caught her elbow gently.

“No, stay, please.”

She looked at him for a second and nodded as Frank turned his attention to Cullen.

“What is it Greg.”

“Highsmith called. They want to cut a deal.”

“What kind of deal?”

Cullen took a breath. “A foster family.”

“No way.” Frank dismissed the notion straight up and Greg continued to try and win him round, informing him that they could cherry pick and that it would be mutually approved and he’d already found a family in Tampa, which was what he had been working on all day.

“She’ll attend the Oaks, you and Evelyn will get visitation right, and then, when she’s twelve, you can go back into court and Mary can decide where, and with who, she wants to live.”

“You’re supposed to be on my team.” Frank cut his friend off, glaring at him “Why are you bringing me this deal?

“Other than I'm required to by law?” Greg looked back at him, and then suddenly Frank understood.

“You like this deal.” he stated and Greg nodded.

“I love this deal.”

“They think they're gonna lose.” Frank leaned on the work-desk in front of him, looking at Cullen.

“Yeah. They do.”

“You think we're gonna lose.”

“Yes.” Greg replied honestly. “I do, Frank.”

Frank looked down, swallowing before he turned to his friend who sighed.

“I gotta go put my kids to bed. I'll do whatever you want me to do. But, if we leave this up to the judge, Nicholls, he's old school, Frank. Does he like your mother? No. Does he like her income? Does he like her health plan? Does he like her home? You better believe it.”

Frank looked down again, shaking his head, unable to do anything else.

“I've been in his courtroom. A hundred times. And if it's a coin toss...Look at me.”

Frank turned to Greg, his arms still leaning on the top, muscles straining as he grasped at a wrench in front of him in frustration.

“If it's a coin toss, that old boy is going to side with the money.” Greg said gently “So, do me a favour, Frank. Just meet the family. See how it feels. It's all I ask.” With that he took a deep breath. “I gotta go, I’ll see you later. Goodnight Fliss.”

“Night.” she replied, watching him leave.

There was a pause before Frank picked up the wrench in his hand and threw it hard against the wall at the opposite side of the garage, before he stood up tall and turned to Fliss who was watching him, her face contorted in sympathy and sadness.

“I don’t know what to do.” He looked at her, and every single emotion he had been holding back cascaded over him in a wave as he felt utterly and hopelessly overwhelmed. He couldn’t stop the tears brimming in his eyes and he bowed his head, once more leaning on the desk. He felt a warm pair of hands gently on his arm, nudging him to turn slightly and he did so to look at Fliss as she wrapped her arms around his neck, pulling him down into a hug. He pressed his face into the crook of her shoulder, his tears falling onto her soft skin as she smoothed a hand through his hair, gently soothing him.

“Sorry.” he mumbled after a moment pulling back.

She placed her hands on his face, wiping his tears with her thumbs, her own filling her eyes. “Don’t ever apologise to me for being upset, Frankie.”

He let out a soft, watery laugh as he dropped his forehead to hers, his eyes closing as he took a deep breath, composing himself.

“You now no one’s called me Frankie since I was a little kid” he smiled.

“Well it suits you.” she pulled away slightly. “You good?” He nodded, moving back out of her arms. “Do you think I should go?” he asked “Meet this family?”

“Frank, I can’t answer that.” “What would you do?”

“I honestly don’t know.” she shook her head. “I suppose there’s no harm in meeting them. But you have to be sure this is what is right for Mary. I do know one thing though, whatever you decide to do, I’ll be there all the way. I told you, I was here for the road trip, no matter how bumpy it gets.”

He nodded, taking a deep breath. He gently took her hand and raised it to his mouth, brushing his lips across her knuckles. “Thankyou.”

**** Chapter 9

#riding high #frank adler #frank adler x ofc #frank adler x original female character #gifted #gifted fan fic

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larktb-archive · 3 years

Note

Hi! I'm too shy to come off anon, but I need your help understanding something. I hope I'm not bothering you!!

I don't want to interact with anyone who is a fascist, but I'm not entirely sure what makes someone fascist. Can you please explain it to me?

I know I could look it up myself, but I know that not all definitions online can be correct and I just want your perspective;;

Thanks!

Hi anon! Well, fascism comes in many forms so “sussing out who’s a fascist” is technically a little harder to do than having a simple checklist. After all, doesn’t a White Supremacist have different beliefs to a Japanese fascist? And doesn’t a Japanese fascist have different beliefs to a Wahabist? These beliefs clash don’t they? Well, yes and no. Sure the surface level beliefs are different but the underlying core beliefs of these groups are actually quite similar; it’s the specifics which are different. Even though it isn’t a “bible” on what is fascism and shouldn’t be taken as gospel, Umberto Eco has an essay called “Ur-Fascism” which contains 14 points, which can help us identify whether certain beliefs are fascist no matter the specifics of their belief system. I’ll explain the points in short and give some examples. Quick disclaimer, I am not an expert on fascism or any of the ideologies I’ll discuss by any means so if you aren’t taking Umberto Eco’s writing as the 100% correct truth, definitely don’t take mine as that either (this is how you should treat most sources tho):

1. Cult of Tradition and 2. Rejection of modernity

I put these two together because they’re kind of inseparable. This is basically the idea that there was a “glorious past” that people need to return to and modernity is a corruption of that “glorious past”. In British fascist thought, this past is generally the 19th century at the zenith of the British Empire or mid-20th century Britain. The latter is more common for people who wish to be a little more PC with their writings; instead of trying to use a by-gone era that pretty much no one alive can remember, they use a much more recent time with nostalgic ideas of “the good old days” which doesn’t seem threatening on it’s surface but is dogwhistling for a time when there weren’t as many immigrants in the country.

You may have seen the “reject modernity, embrace tradition” meme and it’s pretty much the most obvious incarnation of this idea. Similarly you may seen people online use “degenerate” as an insult. If you look at the meaning of the degenerate it means “having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline”; it’s microcosm of these ideas put into a single insult. This is why you tend to see conservatives use it more than progressives.

I’d also argue that terfs obsession with 2nd wave feminism and their utter rejection of intersectionality and modern feminism is another manifestation of this idea.

3. Action for actions sake

This is less detectable in terms of individuals but still important to note that these people tend to support action without a cause. Sure the insurrection at the white house earlier this year was action, but it had no substance behind it. It was action for actions sake, which is why any principled leftist didn’t support it. Fascists will tend to openly just call for action but won’t be very specific about the purposes of the action; as long as they agree with the ideology behind it they’ll support it. It’s why fascists love harassment campaigns and mindless acts of terror. Take Wahabist terrorist orgs like Al-Qaeda or ISIS, it doesn’t matter if bombing an Ariana Grande concert has no point, the only point is the action itself.

4. Disagreement is treason

This one’s pretty self explanatory, they will ostracize you if you disagree with them. Again, terfs tend to do this, and I had a long conversation with an ex-terf I called a dumbass, who basically said that she was ostracized by them and mocked for having different beliefs (hope she’s doing well actually). There’s numerous stories from ex-terfs like this.

5. Fear of difference

There’s a tendency for fascists to group people into “us” and “them”. “They” are considered to be intruders who need to be removed whereas “we” are the people who deserve to be here because it is “our” right to be here. In Zulu Nationalism, this tends to be any non-Zulu speakers who they deem to be “Shangaan” even if they aren’t actually Tsonga, it’s just a pejorative at this point. If you see vague references to the “elite” without any reference to who they are and what makes them “elite”, this is tends to be a dogwhistle for Jewish people. Western Fascists have very little issue with the workings of capitalism itself or the accumulation of wealth by capitalists, they just don’t like “them”, taking “our” stuff. Any references to “us” and “them” is pretty much a red flag.

6. Appeal to Social Frustration

Fascists will tend to brush upon actual issues faced by the poor today but will instead blame it on an outside force. You’ll see job loss being blamed on immigrants or vague “elites”. Terfs do this too. They’ll see young girls who are genuinely struggling with patriarchal issues and divert all that pent up rage towards trans people and the “q*eers” (which they do tend to use as a slur unlike what most people would have you think).

7. Obsession with a Plot

Everything is a conspiracy! The election was rigged! 9/11 was fake! that fucking pizza place/this furniture company is a sex ring! All of these are supposedly plots by the deep state who are trying to do... something or other. You’ll notice these “Plots” don’t actually have a purpose, but the fact that there is a plot itself is the issue. This is a way of engendering paranoia in the group while also feeling that there is a constant war against you even if there isn’t. This is also why, despite news sources being pro-capitalist the right will swear up and down it’s leftist media which is controlled by “them” (usually just meaning Jewish people).

8. The enemy is both strong and weak

“Trans people have infiltrated academia and the only reason people refuse to see gender as an immutable biological concept, is because they’re too afraid of the trans cabal to say anything. But also everyone can tell trans people are crazy and haha you have a high suicide rate.” It’s contradictory that’s the point. They need to feel that they’re both counterculture but also they need to be winning at all times so that contradiction is necessary. Also the use of the word “cabal” is a pretty big red flag for all forms of fascism.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy, 10. Contempt for the weak, 11. Everybody is educated to become a hero and 12. Machismo and weaponry

All of these are kind of interrelated so I’m grouping them together (also this is already fucking long as hell so I don’t wanna bore you any further). You’ll tend to see a love for the military or at least military aesthetics when looking through fascist blogs. Guns aren’t just a tool for fascists, they’re representative of masculinity and the necessity of violence. Pacifists and anyone who refuses to fight are weak and therefore are “degenerate”. If you do not fight, if you are not willing to fight, you cannot be a “hero” (an ubermensch or a matyr). This comes with the fetishization of violence instead of the recognition of violence being an means to an end, and the worship of individuals rather than of communities and organizations. Take Japanese fascists and their lionisation of the imperial military and their desire to once again have an actual army.

Terfs don’t necessarily fit these roles except for arguably 10 considering how much they seem to look down upon the mentally ill and those who commit suicide and surprisingly 11 since that involves the hatred of non-standard sexual activities and terfs hate non-standard sex (this is from the most vanilla bitch who is very uncomfortable with kink but understands its not inherently good or bad). I have a feeling this is more so because terfs are mainly women (there are male terfs ofc) whereas this was written for male led organizations.

13. Selective populism

When fascists talk about “the people” they tend to mean “the people we like”. “The working class” can be translated to “this cishet white christian man from Minnesota who owns land but hey he lives in a rural area so he’s working class right?”. They’ll also tend to have “tokens” who will suddenly become the mouth piece of the entire community they’re supposedly representing even if no one in the community asked them to (i.e. Milo Yiannopoulos).

14. Ur fascism speaks Newspeak

They speak in terms which are both inaccessible to anyone outside of their circles whilst being so simple that once you learn them it becomes easy to understand. They abhor any form of “academic” speech so you’ll rarely see them source things (unless those things happen to agree with their views, which is rare but Jordan Peterson is popular for a reason) and if they do source things they probably wouldn’t have read them fully and will rely on you also not reading them. This is to limit any critical thinking so that your brain is basically jellified into an unquestioning organ which only responds “yes” or “no” and only appeals to a higher authority without any form of reasoning involved. This is why they complain about “the lefts memes being too wordy”... because they’re used to not having to read (this is somewhat tongue in cheek but heyho if the boot fits).

And that’s the 14 main features of fascism, if anyone is displaying multiple of these ideas then they are most likely fascist, and if an organization or group continuously replicates these ideas, then they are definitely fascist. I hope this wasn’t too long but like I said... very complex topic. (Also hopefully this is written well, it’s 10 PM and I am surviving off Irn Bru energy drink). Hope this helped!

#long post #lillypad.txt #ask away #Anon

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littlehollyleaf · 6 years

Note

Another thing to keep in mind is that Ed has always kind of had a crush on Lee (sniffing her hair) even when he was infatuated with Kristen, so that mixed with his general insanity, and inability to fully understand love is going to leave him rather broken-hearted this season. I mean, it'd be insane to expect Lee to reciprocate. However, it could end up being a catalyst for Ed to get help...If he's afraid of hurting another person he cares about.

True about Ed always ~kinda crushing on Lee, although… IIRC it was LITERALLY only the fact he knew what she smelled like that vaguely hinted at that? (we don’t actually see him smell her I think? he sniffs KRISTEN’S hair in an extremely creepy and inappropriate fashion early on, but about Lee he only comments to Harvey and Jim that he thinks she ‘smells nice’ - is that right?), so I wouldn’t argue that it was MUCH of a crush really.

That said I do not think it’s OOC for him to crush on or believe he’s in love with Lee (hell, idk, I don’t think it would be wildly OOC for him to ACTUALLY fall in love with her, esp. now that she is embracing her melodramatic side as well as her dark side, meaning they actually have a fair bit in common atm). I just… don’t find it… NECESSARY as an aspect of their plot/relationship.

So basically, like… it WORKS, I guess. It MAKES SENSE as a story choice in the sense that it FITS within the narrative the show has crafted. I just… don’t like/want it *sigh* So I’m not trying to get on a high horse and say that it’s objectively wrong/bad and/or nonsense or anything, I’m just venting my personal distaste.

Been doing that a lot with Gotham lately - how very lame for my followers, I’m so sorry!

I do like your idea that it could act as a catalyst for Ed seeking help though, in order to not put Lee in danger. That’s nice thinking!

Although I’m afraid I don’t share the optimism :( Because Ed NEEDS to get back to being Riddler at some point ofc (sooner than later probably), and since being Riddler seems to me to be symptomatic of his illness, my general assumption is that he is doomed to consistently FAIL to get help (as is the case for, like, all the Batman Rogues I feel? awww).

Considering that, it has always seemed to me that this happy family with Grundy and Lee was the set up for a tragic fall for Ed - giving him a taste of happiness in order to make his inevitable return to madness as The Riddler more powerful/painful for the audience.

So I’ve been prepping for Ed to break with Grundy and Lee from the start and with Grundy it has always seemed pretty likely this would happen with Grundy getting some of Butch’s memories back, realising Ed has been lying to and exploiting him, and so turning on Ed - possibly actually trying to assault him, but ultimately leaving him in any case (though I have made some desperate hopeful speculation otherwise!). Which would then contribute to Eddie embracing being The Riddler again, since he will have lost a key part of the support system that was keeping him from being overwhelmed by his unhealthy thoughts/urges, yeah?

With Lee though I’ve had no thoughts on how she and Ed might eventually part ways… in fact, considering how heartwarmingly good together they’d been of late I was actually starting to wonder if perhaps they might NOT split on bad terms at all - that perhaps Lee would genuinely try to HELP Eddie fight his mental problems, but that in the end the pull to become Riddler again would just be too strong and Ed would run off right back to his previous crazy life of crime, albeit with warm feelings towards Lee still. While Lee is left disappointed, but with some sort of lingering warm feelings for Eddie too, maybe holding on to some hopeful idea that he can still be appealed to and helped… (I actually would really love this, oh, can’t we have this??)

HOWEVER, now we have this sudden, unexpected romance element… I have a new theory on how Ed might end up splitting from Lee -

Because no matter what I’m thinking Lee will NOT reciprocate any romantic feelings towards her from Ed, be they real or not, (as you say anon - that would be ridiculous), so… maybe it’s just because I recently played through the first Telltale Batman (:p), but I’m picturing a variation on the Harvey Dent spiraling into Two Face scenario, as seen in Telltale and also BtAS (since Gotham has given their Eddie a bit of a Two Face flavour after all) -

ie. Ed makes a pass at Lee (leaves her flowers, just blurts out that he loves her, something like that) and she rejects him (I imagine she’d do it really nicely too, emphasising how she values his friendship or some such), but while this is all innocent it kickstarts Eddie’s paranoia (why doesn’t she love me? am I not good enough? does she have someone else? is it Jim? etc etc), which then spirals into darker more violent thoughts (why shouldn’t she be with me? how dare she think I’m not good enough! what does Jim have that I don’t?! etc etc)… leading, perhaps, to him being angry or even violent towards Lee (who will defend herself in kickass ways if that is the case ofc) and ultimately going off in a rage believing that Lee isn’t and never was his friend and he was stupid to think they could ever be friends or more… or possibly slinking off in shame at having tried to hurt her, believing that she hates him now and that he clearly can’t fight his violent urges anyways (oooh that might be quite cool actually)… endgame being that he turns to becoming Riddler again as the only life he thinks he can have…

…in general I guess it might not be a TERRIBLE way for Eddie to tragically fall back into being The Riddler - I do love a good tragedy and all that :) But… I feel like they could do similar WITHOUT any (potential) romance involved… hmmm…

I’ve been a disaster at predicting the show this season however - so hopefully that trend will continue and this will be wrong :p

(one thing I do find curious and that works against my prediction is that Eddie was very ANGRY at his Riddler self when he suggested he was in love with Lee… could be that Eddie didn’t want his feelings mocked/belittled/tainted and/or didn’t want to start having violent urges towards another woman he loves, hence telling that side of himself ‘SHUT UP!’… OR, idk, could be that Eddie ISN’T in love with Lee and he doesn’t want his mind to start twisting his relationship with Lee into something it isn’t and that’s why he’s angry? (kinda like Ozzie being pissed at everything thinking he was in love with Sofia?) he just wants to keep being happy and being friends and not feel compelled to be more… this would fit a reading of Ed as suffering from issues of toxic masculinity and all that - the side of him that’s all about hyper-masculinity is telling him that as a woman Lee ofc should be considered as a potential lover because that’s what women are to men and that kind of nonsense, so he’s trying to resist that…. on the same note, it’s interesting that his Riddler self mocked his acting - his toxic thoughts shaming him for having ‘unmanly’ interests perhaps??)

SORRY ANON, I’ve got WAY WAY OFF TOPIC pls forgive me! thank you for making me think anyways xx and if the show does use this story to have Eddie actually seek help like you suggest that will be cool and I will owe you all the kudos!

#gotham spoilers #gotham: queen takes knight #character study: edward #gotham season 4 spec #...the more different Batman versions I consume #the odder it is that this Eddie has all these internalised toxic masculinity issues #because... that doesn't seem the case for many other Riddlers?#or at least...#it's esp odd that the Riddler persona in this ep #should mock Eddie's acting and so seemingly perhaps be opposed to Eddie's 'non-masculine' characteristics #because... The Riddler is traditionally ALL ABOUT being flamboyant and NOT exactly traditionally masculine?#so... idk... my mind always ends up a muddle thinking about Riddler oy!#Anonymous

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ryodan · 7 years

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I am conflicted about sasusaku. I shipped it hardcore when I was younger then bore resentment toward him when he defected and caused my queen sm pain. Now, though, I adore and cherish Sasuke as a member of team7 and a character. In SS pairing there are things that he does that makes me iffy. I'm not at all blind to his affections to Sakura but like when he put her in a genjutsu of him stabbing her… he could've put her in lala land but instead stabbed her. Why though? Im so conflicted. Help?

See, to be honest with you this is the kind of ask that can always get me stumped and it’s the reason why I have never argued with a Sakura stan about SasuSaku. I always mention this as if it weren’t obvious enough; I am a Sasuke stan. Before even being a fan of the series and before being any type of shipper, first and foremost, I am always just a little shit here for Sasuke. Asking me questions like ‘did Sakura deserve better from Sasuke?’ ‘did he hurt my queen?’ won’t get you the greatest answer from a Sakura stan’s POV, and that is why ic you have not noticed most my posts/answered asks are from Sasuke’s POV or are just me defending her against asshats with double standards shitting on her for caring for him; or just defending her with no context to SS. This question gets me thinking and I am not sure my answer will satisfy you. However, Let me try to do this to the best of my ability.

‘Did Sakura deserve better?’

Short answer: yes, but it’s not really a sasusaku thing.

Did Sasuke leaving the village cause pain?

Yes, of course it did. When someone you care about to the point of feeling like you’ve become a family is suddenly out of your life it hurts like hell, both Naruto and Sakura can relate. Heck, even Kakashi who had become an almost father figure to them can.

However, put yourself in Sasuke’s shoes, he is a 12 year old child who has been manipulated into carrying the moral burden of his family’s massacre since the age 7. Seven is such a MALLEABLE age, his brain was literally molded like clay and he was taken advantage of since a very influential age. Since age seven sasuke viewed avenging his family to be the sole purpose he was allowed to live, he literally viewed himself to be someone not worthy of killing for five years of his life. The fact that he came so far during his time with T7 is a miracle in it’s own right, he was emotionally healing with them. It got to a point where even Orochimaru’s influence using the curse mark was weakening because he loved these 2 so much

And then this comes along

In the same scene, sasuke is stripped of both his pride and his sanity.

Having not only been shown his own parents and clan being murdered on repeat for twenty four hours but also beaten bloody to get reminded of his own weakness.

He trained all this time, thought himself getting physically and mentally stronger only to end up in this state

And he ended being even further manipulated into hatred

That day left him out of commission in the hospital for the time period naruto spent learning the rasengan and looking for tsunande; he was unconscious the entire time, and it was not even the physical attack that knocked him out, but rather, the mental ones.

Naruto took about four and a half weeks to learn the Rasengan

Despite all of this, he still wanted to slip out the village without hurting anyone’s feelings face to face. Sakura and Naruto both chased after him because they both loved him and did not think he was making the right decision by leaving. I’d like to highlight, sasuke himself said the characters misunderstood his motivations; his arc was never about just revenge, but also it’s been about justice. I truly feel for both Sakura and Naruto who were hurt by their loved one leaving; I cried during the confession, and God knows how much I cried during Sasuke and Naruto’s fight. But, it’s possible to feel for both of them while being objective, and in all honestly I find Sasuke perfectly justified in leaving and in fighting Naruto who instigated the fight himself.

Sakura got lucky with this

And I’d like to mention that Sasuke not once: interrupted her, belittled her feelings, called her stupid for loving him or anything of the sort. He respected her feelings and he had enough affection to give a thank you for it. What should he have said? ‘Yeah no, only interested in revenge atm’? lie and say something like ‘I hate you’?

He opted for letting her know she has been in his memories and that he has grateful for everything

(Mind you this is a mistranslation, he said uzai meaning annoying)

He even gave her answers for why he is leaving.

And it’s not like he was not just as affected by leaving and hurting the people he cares about either..he was also giving up his only hope of happiness

But he was literally manipulated into this since age SEVEN

Naruto is upset his friend whom is one of his first bonds is leaving to Orochimaru who clearly has ulterior motives, not understanding that sasuke already knows that

Sakura is upset the boy whom her crush for has grown into love is leaving and isolating himself for a ‘revenge’ she does not realize isn’t the main thing on the table for him

Sasuke is upset about his brother who’s killed his family being out there and about leaving the people he’s grown to care so much about. Sasuke left his fight with Naruto remembering his family while shaking with the pain of loosing everything, so it’s hard for me to place sakura above him in this situation.

See what I mean by sympathy is given to everyone but there is clearly someone with a stronger footing in the situation?

What about the pain Sasuke caused because of what he was doing outside the village?

here is what sasuke was not justified on doing in terms of Konoha

He is justified in hating Konoha, and getting angry over the political tyranny and the nationalist views it had that got his clan massacred and then threw the burden of the situation on his brother. He simply had a period of chronic insanity intensified by his curse of hatred; and that only grew with his pain and by overusing his mangekyo that comes at the price of insanity and vision.

His logic was a huge 180 from the Sasuke we we’re used to. he was no longer someone who believed in no killing under any circumstance; but now is willing to kill opponents after giving them a fair warning, since Konoha, whom he previously thought to be a good place can do it, and Itachi whom he previously believed to be evil but is now considered ‘perfect’ (god do i have my issues with itachi) had done it, it’s no longer an off the table option for him..He essentially had an existential crisis (paired with a panic attack that left him unconscious) that left his moral code completely shifted.

But you also have to understand his pain

even Kakashi who got this from him

acknowledged that while sasuke might be in the wrong, he was still a victim of his surrounding situation (god i love kakashi)

Speaking of murder eyes, Sakura still got lucky she got off with what she got off with while dealing with such an unstable person

Sasuke might be in the wrong; but expecting him not to retaliate when he knows she is out here, wearing her konoha head band and official cape, trying to kill him is pretty?????? She wanted to kill him, but he still gave her a chance (which ofc she would not take, she is not going to kill an innocent person) no murder eyes involved until it was clear to him what his intentions were. At this point, even sakura knew he was very far into the rabbit hole

he even softens a little when shes all like : ) ill betray konoha 4 u bb

Sasuke has never instigated a murder on sakura that she did not start herself, by ninja standards totally justifiable; they are 2 fighters meeting on field. This is not me saying Sakura is a bad person for attacking Sasuke, she too had full rights

*when sasuke attacked her team mates she wanted to fight him and bring him back home

* when sasuke could have had a war starting in his name, started attacking villages and ‘joined’ a terrorist organisation

Given all these circumstances they both had rights to fight each other

Sad, but true

What about the war arc?

There is good things

Misunderstood things, due to mistranslations. Sasuke asks her literally ‘if you heard what can you do?’ and she does not answer because she couldn’t do much in that situation. He was not scolded on being a bully like some anti-sasuke folk want it to be, he was scolded on not being a team player.

The bad scenes include the lava pit comment which naruto called him out on as a bitch ass liar (he deserved that one tbh)

And of course the genjutsu. See, I don’t try to justify it and if a sakura fan dislikes sasuke and sasusaku because of it I can’t tell them anything.

I can go in circles saying ‘oh but he cared! he was trying to cut off every bond to enter true darkness! he cared about her so much and the only way to ensure she writes him off forever is to do a violent type! naruto got murder!! she would have got hurt! he was preventing her getting physically hurt!’ and it’s all true but it does not answer ‘did sakura deserve that for just asking him not to kill the 5 kage and sit his ass down?’ because the answer to that is no; under no circumstance was he justified to do that, as commented on by kakashi.

But it’s important to remember at this point sakura is not trying to get in a romantic relationship with him, had that been the case it would have been THAT much more problematic, she was just trying to help.

You start asking fundamental questions if you ask ‘should she and naruto chase him to help?’ Sasuke asked them multiple times not to but at this point team 7 has become family. They could not just sit still and watch someone they cared about so much fuck up his own life and the life of others.

To Sasuke team 7 was hope and love after loss, to naruto they were the people who saved him from the darkness, to kakashi it’s the light at the end of the tunnel and to Sakura it’s where she grew up, where she faced life for what it is and arguably after ino were her first friends who helped her blossom into who she is. They really did not want to give up on that.

With all that in mind, I find it hard to believe these two could give up on sasuke.

He viewed them as family too, he too understands too well that the love you have for your family; the selfless, unconditional love that can cause a hell of suffering

Even a god believed there was hope.

When sasuke’s ideology stemmed from his beliefs that were about common interest above personal feelings he said this

and this

After everything, he had seen no reason for her to continue loving him; and it does not matter how he feels, since they have no common interest; he’s too busy trying to take over the world and she is thinking of a happy ending full of regained bonds

and he was right! Sasuke and Naruto officially ended the cycle of hatred begun by Kaguya and her grandchildren, and that’s when sasusaku got together.

had sasuke not been genuinely sorry I would have boarded off this ship, but he was.

a romantic relationship only officially happened after this, even after sasuke stayed in konoha for a year after the war and whatever happened between them happened, he still did not allow himself a chance to enjoy these things because he was working off his sins.

In fact, in Shinden (I own it) it’s revealed he is working on himself because he was afraid of having intimate relationships without going off the rails again, despite longing to see team 7 again. What I am trying to get to is: whatever punishment you want inflicted on sasuke, don’t worry he’s inflicting on himself/the world is inflicting it on him,,in fact I reckon this poor kid deserves a break, some tomato soup and a good tight hug.

What about romantic sasusaku?

SasuSaku happened under great, healthy conditions and it’s not like sasuke is incapable of making sakura happy. You can only imagine (sadly no bitch is animating it) how much happiness she felt travelling around with a happy, free of hate sasuke and I 1000% believe he did his best to make her happy and I reckon it worked since she seems chipper despite the circumstances in gaiden…must have been one really good trip to have it’s after effects lingering for 12 years LOL

He makes her happy and she loves him and loves seeing him happy, and she has that forever now so I don’t really think Sakura is sad to end up with Sasuke and really neither should you

What does sakura deserve?

- More fights as given to her male counterparts to show her amazing skills, we want to see the genjutsu skills she’s renowned for

- More medical ninja scenes, the Kankuro one was iconic and was literally one of the most epic moments in the SERIES; more of the stuff showing her intellect please

- Her personal arc to be expanded on just as her male counterparts

- To be involved in more important information just like her male counterparts, the entire sasuke fiasco could have been avoided and could have opened a door for some deep sasusaku moments

- Her emotional moments were the type that give you chills, more of those just as her male counterparts

- An animation studio that does her justice in animation

- An animation studio that uses fillers to expand on her, not one that pulls shit like this to make her look immature and unlikable

- A fanbase not full of ugly sexist boys who hate on her unnecessarily

- A fanbase not full of insecure self inserty girls who hate her for being in place of their self insert

- A better fucking plot for Gaiden

But, don’t take it out on sasuke or sasusaku man, don’t take it out on something you like. I love the judgmental couple that overcame everything.

Ultimately whether you believe she deserved better from Sasuke is completely up to how much you are willing to interpret both characters evenly. And ultimately, whether you like the dynamic of the ship or chose it’s not for you, is also completely up to you..it’s atypical and I understand why it might not be someone’s cup of tea. I only get annoyed when it’s unnecessary bashing of the relationship and the characters that sometimes extends to insulting real life people and their beliefs. Not cool.

Thanks for the ask and I hope this was not too sasuke centered hehe, also sorry for the late reply I have 78 asks in my box and it’s very hectic as I also have studying and socializing to keep up with.

Thank you again!

#sasusaku #sasuke uchiha #sakura haruno #pro sasuke #pro sakura #pro sasusaku #naruto uzumaki #kakashi hatake #team 7 #naruto #anonymous

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chromsai · 7 years

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Sai, I just went and watched Yugioh Everything's video on Yusaku and Aoi having Autism and Depresson, respectively. While he makes some solids points and I agree with them having mental problems, he basically said Vrains is the first yugioh to talk about 'such dark topics.' If your up to it could you bring up some characters in previous ygo series (Arc-V or all your choice) that implied to have mental problems cause Vrains is not the first by a long shot lmao.

Lmao sorry this answer is kinda late since the past few days have been busy for me and ironically enough you sent this right when I just got back from a grad school info session (regarding psych programs ofc) which made me realize I kinda wanna pursue a career more along research in the field of abnormal psychology which is one of my stronger areas of knowledge in psychology already anyway. I just really like it that much.

So yeah I did see this ask like almost right when you sent it but it was late and I had just gotten home after a nice day and YE’s videos haven’t been making me too happy lately so ofc sorry I kinda avoided watching it that night cuz I didn’t wanna ruin my nice day (just in case). But now that I watched it, well as far as I can remember he didn’t outright say that this is the first time a Yugioh’s dealt with these issues before (but I can see how you got that he perhaps implied it).

That all being said, I still have just a, I’d say, general yet above-average knowledge in these subjects (hey I have a degree in Psych, yes, but that doesn’t make me an expert by any means and I’m not afraid to say that, hell I love learning new things about psych all the time) so please keep that in mind (also please keep in mind too that I cannot professionally diagnose anyone, but for the sake of discussion about the psychology in fiction, I can definitely give my thoughts on what would be the most probably diagnosis for certain characters). Besides that though, if YE does actually believe that this is the first time these kinds of issues have ever been dealt with in Yugioh, well wow idk how much he’s been paying attention before this...

(Long read with further examples + explanations from characters in each series under the cut)

Regarding his statements on the Vrains characters and the disorders he mentioned, I’ll give it to him. In fact, I too am pretty sure by now that all of Yusaku’s “quirks” point to Autism, though, and YE didn’t mention this so idk how knowledgeable he is regarding other personality disorders, he also seems to show symptoms of OCPD (obsessive-compulsive); these include being obsessed or preoccupied with making lists and keeping track of small details, over preoccupation with work or meeting goals to the point of neglecting your social life or forming close relations, unwillingness to see ethics or values in someone else’ light, being stubborn, etc. Wouldn’t surprise me if he has both since there’s a high co-morbidity between ASD and OCPD.

In regards to Aoi, again yes I agree. Girl has depression. It’s very obvious (this I can say with confidence as someone who has suffered previously from it [note: I sought help and let’s just say I’m very glad I did]. The Paranoid Personality Disorder... (I’m gonna be honest.... I didn’t pay enough attention to Aoi’s character enough to determine a firmer answer and I don’t really feel like rewatching the ep). According to him, it’s a possible thing. He did mention that she could just be acting that way because her whole entire life she’s been kinda used so she has a general distrust of people, but that’s just the thing. If in fact he’s correct about her symptoms matching up, it doesn’t necessarily matter if she’s acting this way due to her childhood trauma, in fact, that’s even more reason to validate her suffering from PPD (another area I feel more confident about in psych is child/adolescent development and hey guess what, lots of personality disorder symptoms start showing up during childhood or are even a direct cause of childhood trauma).

Speaking of childhood trauma, you wanted to know characters from other series that have mental illnesses/suffer from personality disorders? Well... (*cough cough* as a psychologist, why do you think I enjoyed Arc V so much?)...Here’s a quick list of just a few select characters I can think of:Arc V:-Yuya (remember, the childhood trauma I mentioned): Oh my poor boy suffers from dysthymia. Again, I’m pretty confident here because I can relate (because I suffer from it too ahaha). While we don’t know exactly for how long, it’s been at least three years with it (ugh) since his father’s disappearance and all the bullying. He shows so many signs of it throughout the show (it would be pointless to get screencaps because the signs are literally everywhere): dysthymia (sometimes called “persistent depressive disorder”) is noted by sadness, anger, irritability, mood swings, loss of appetite, insomnia (did you notice in Synchro when we was feeling depressed in his room he didn’t eat at all and stayed up all night despite being noticeably tired), indecisiveness, low self-esteem, among others. I’m sure people might argue against me, trying to say “oh well he’s energetic for the most part and still smiles a lot” well guess what, there’s lots of entertainers, comedians, performers, and just overall really sociable people who do a terrifyingly good job hiding it.I saw someone once mention that they headcanoned Yuya also has Histrionic Personality Disorder and well... he actually does show signs of it but not so much that he actually meets criteria. Even for being an entertainer tho, he shows this more than the others (either Dennis, Yuzu, or even Yusho), but again, can’t be diagnosed with it.Lastly, and this is more of a post-canon thought regarding the prognosis of his mental health... he’s definitely gonna deal with some dissociative symptoms for the rest of his life (or until somehow, some way they find a way to separate him and the other Yuus, and even then still...). There is just no way in hell you can convince me that he’s not gonna experience dissociation on a regular basis with 3 other people living inside him. Same goes for Yuzu. (Side note: RIP my heart.)

-Shun: He suffers from PTSD. Oh man he’s kind of textbook PTSD: irritableness, mistrust, social issolation, flashbacks, hostility, fear, anxiety, paranoia, agitation, hyper-vigilance, etc. (I’d also say Yuto and Kaito suffer this too).

-Reria: Also suffers from PTSD, but since Reira is much younger, coping with childhood PTSD is a lot harder and leads to more frequent panic attacks, flashbacks, intrusive or unwanted thoughts, nightmares, avoidant behavior, etc.

-Yuri: Conduct Disorder, aka the precursor to Antisocial Personality Disorder. He’s 14 so he can’t really be diagnosed as the second. Anyways, what really tipped me off about him having this is his blatant disregard for any remorse towards harming others. He just doesn’t feel it. On the contrary, he straight up says he enjoys it, says he needs it “just like breathing”, he’s an overall really violent kid and starts fights with literally anyone that gets in his way (like... it’s even his catchphrase “You’re in my way!”), has no knows long term close relationships with anyone (reeaaally wish they had given us more of him and Dennis together tho...), and he’s known to deceive, trick, or lie to others with no guilt at all. (He’s also seen as similar to past villains of Yugioh, outright disproving the implication that Vrains is the first Yugioh to deal with personality or mental disorder issues).

-Zarc: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Again, another textbook example. And yes, similar to Aoi’s possible Paranoid Personality Disorder, this is canonically induced into his personality as a result of the society he lived in praising his violent duel style and eventual lust for power due in part to the same reason. But just because it was induced due to circumstance doesn’t make it any less valid. It’s another form of trauma, just like Aoi’s whole “being used all her life” led her to develop PDD.

And well there’s more examples in Arc V (you can also argue that Shingo also suffers from NPD to some extent, etc.) but I think those are the biggest ones I can think of right now.

And of course, though I’ve seen them all, I know Arc V the best + it’s just the one that’s in my most recent memory so it’s easier to talk about them, but some other quick examples from the series that I can think of:

DM:-Kaiba: Again, Narcissistic Personality Disorder.-Marik: I think he’s a strong candidate for being diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (at least the way his villainous arc portrayed him as).-Bakura: Actually an adult so actual Antisocial Personality Disorder.

GX:-Judai: Depression & Dissociation. Yep.-Ryo Marufuji/Hell Kaiser: Definitely could argue that he displays signs of Sadisitic Personality Disorder, just keep in mind that it is no longer included in the DSM-V so it is not something someone would be typically diagnosed with professionally.-Manjoume: Another Narcissist.

5D’s:-Jack Atlas: Okay so he’s more of an accurate example of Histrionic Personality Disorder, minus the sexual criteria (which, if the Yugioh anime genre/audience allowed, I’m sure would be plausible since he also displays signs of NPD, implying that he might actually want that kind of physical/superficial attention).-Aki: Also like Aoi, displayed symptoms of PPD, though I’d argue she definitely has it and just learns to cope over time after befriending Yusei & co.-Sherry: Shows signs of high functioning ASD (being perfectionist and being obsessed with finding out about her parents murder), but ASD isn’t something I’m too confident talking about yet so maybe don’t quote me on this.-Divine: I’d say you can argue he’s has Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Zexal:-Vector: Another one with.... I mean... he’s not really 13 or 14, he’s actually, what, like 100s of years old? So instead of Conduct Disorder, he actually has Antisocial... technically...-Fuya: OOOOOHHHH You thought I wouldn’t remember a character like him??? (Again, as a psychologist, these are the characters I like the most). He’s memorable to me, despite being a minor character, cuz I’d say he definitely displays signs of having Avoidant Personality Disorder, especially with regards to using his Esper Robin personality to avoid all those intrusive, self-conscious thoughts he doesn’t find pleasant.-Shark/Ryoga/Nasch: Also has PTSD.-IV: He’s borderline Antisocial. Not quite. But almost there.

OOOKAYY Well anyways, those were just a bunch of examples. There’s way more, I’m sure that I missed A TON. But yes it’s as you said, Vrains is definitely NOT the first time in Yugioh history where characters have had to struggle with mental health / personality disorder issues. Far from it.

And wow actually thank you for the ask! This was really fun to think about and I welcome the discussion any time! Anyone, don’t be afraid to let me know if there’s stuff I might have left out or if there’s anything wrong with this or any arguments for or against any of this.

#skittymon #ask #reply #skitty #ygo #psych stuff #and wow i got carried away how is it 4:30am already #i should sleep #thank u day off #*prays fam doesn't wake me up early in the morning like they said they would*#ugh #i'm not tagging all of this so RIP #long post

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anonymoustalks · 4 years

Text

do multiculturalism and small religious cult based on the concept of love towards your neighbor run by mentally ill people make it more diverse?

(6-18-20) You both like history.

Stranger: Hey

You: hiya

Stranger: Hello

Stranger: Hi

You: another hi wow ^^

You: very... hello-y

Stranger: Halló

You: why we say hello?

Stranger: to greet each other

You: are greeting important?

Stranger: no it's more important to salute than greet

Stranger: let's perform the Roman salute together

You: ;-; but dunwanna

Stranger: why not?Dont you share my war-like Roman spirit?

You: no, I am primitive

Stranger: filthy barbarian, too uncivilized to salute

You: yup ^^

You: I am one with nature

Stranger: do you put up irminsuls everywhere

You: oh that would be fun

You: that's a good idea

Stranger: it didnt end well for those who thought it'd be a good idea

You: it's okay

You: my faith is more important

Stranger: slaughtered by Charlemagne's frankish knights, forced to convert...

Stranger: do you sleep well

You: sure! ^^

You: do you?

Stranger: Yes of course

You: okay that's good

Stranger: what history do you like?

You: mhm, I kind of just forgot to remove this tag lol

Stranger: why did you tag history??

You: I wanted to learn about the balkans

Stranger: about the powder keg of Europe...okay

Stranger: but what period?

You: 1999 ish

You: yugoslavia basically

Stranger: oh the yugoslav war

Stranger: there was a great deal of ethnic tension between ethnic serbs and albanians they started cleansing each other NATO intervened and bombarded Yugoslav cities with DEPLETED URANIUAM as a result Yugoslavia got dismembered

Stranger: oh right

You: sounds like a good summary

You: also why with depleted uranium?

Stranger: many serbs still have cancer because of depleted uranium

Stranger: the type of bombs they used

You: oh

Stranger: I still cant understand why your dad beats you.

You: that's quite a change of topic lol

Stranger: Why does he beat you?

You: mhm because I'm a pagan

Stranger: no pagan would refer to themselves as pagan

You: it's okay, I have my own idea of paganism

Stranger: it means "a commoner" in latin

You: (don't worry I got this!)

Stranger: I hate you

You: :c

You: I feel sad now

Stranger: you're terrible.

You: D:

You: how can I become un-terrible?

Stranger: bring yourself into a permament state of non existence

You: is that nihilism?

Stranger: No its not nihilism -_-

You: okay sorry ^^

Stranger: oh speaking of words starting with nihil

Stranger: have you heard of ex nihilo

You: nope!

You: my linguistic skills are subpar!

Stranger: do you speak Latin

You: nope!

You: I would prefer to learn birdspeech

Stranger: Mao ordered the killing of all sparrows in China.

You: D: that's so sad!!

You: why?!

Stranger: he thought they were pests.

You: that's terrible

Stranger: Yeah

You: humans are more like pests

You: they've infested the planet

Stranger: thats so

Stranger: misanthropic

You: is that bad?

Stranger: it does reflect the actual state of affairs but its still misanthropic

You: I'm sorry if I offended you

Stranger: I just said its misanthropic

Stranger: I am not offended

You: oh okay, good

Stranger: given I am just a small larva not a human

You: oh you are a small human?

Stranger: are you implying small humans(in other words children) are larvae?

You: hm?

Stranger: Oh nvm my mind twisted this a bit

You: I mean children are neither eggs nor adults

Stranger: right

Stranger: do you like shouty children

You: mhm I think they are fine

You: children are being children

You: it's kind of natural I think

Stranger: so you said humans have infested the planet implying humans are evil. are they naturally evil or are they corrupted by society

You: mhm, I don't think any animals are intrinsically good or evil

You: but if there are a lot of them than it is an infestation

Stranger: so corrupted by society?

You: sure we can go with that

Stranger: Oh are you a Rousseauist

Stranger: you spoke of nature and so on

You: oh, I am not that sophisticated

You: I am a pagan

Stranger: shut up

You: sorry >.<

You: but I'm seriously not that sophisticated

Stranger: I know

Stranger: I ken that

You: *headtilt*

Stranger: I must kithe you that I am a mammal.

You: okay

You: I like mammals

Stranger: I must kithe you that I partook in the colonial partition of Africa.

You: oh how old are you?

Stranger: Oldish

You: I wonder how old your mitochondria are

Stranger: wait do you use numbers to measure age

You: idk

You: units of measurement are a social construct

Stranger: so...?

You: numbers are fine

Stranger: should we establish institutions that encourage people to use numbers to describe age

You: I don't know, what do you think?

Stranger: I have no opinion on that

Stranger: should we establish institutitoons of royal power

You: it is hard for me to grasp the concept of royal power

You: or royalty

Stranger: divine right

Stranger: the grace of god

You: can you explain god to me?

Stranger: when discussing Kings and how they justify their power the only God is the biblical one

You: I see

You: I feel like it must have sounded very strange to the pagans

Stranger: No it didnt

Stranger: Ceaser claimed to have descended from Jupiter

Stranger: CAESAR SORRY

You: I think it would have gotten weirder if they went to asia

Stranger: they had local rulers that also justified their rule with similar concepts

Stranger: it wanst all too different throughout the world

You: I think many of them had local gods

Stranger: obviously

Stranger: in almost all polytheistic religions there is an archgod though

Stranger: the god of all gods

You: I think I would prefer to reject gods and stay with my trees

Stranger: until the trees get cut down

You: why are you so mean?

Stranger: I am not going to lie about the harsh realities of this world

You: but you can change the world

Stranger: to what extent?

Stranger: and in what direction?

You: idk, that's up to you

Stranger: you can change the world

You: yup ^^

Stranger: you change the world

You: yup ^^

Stranger: does this sound motivating

You: it sounds depressingly motivating by being not actually motivating lol

Stranger: not so good then

You: no it's probably fine

Stranger: you can change the world for the worse

Stranger: does this sound motivating

You: it sounds motivating through its pessimissim

Stranger: I've never found pessimism motivating

You: mhm, really?

Stranger: especially given the etymology of the word

You: hmm

Stranger: are you thinking

You: idk, probably not anything productive

Stranger: do you like reflecting in bed

You: it's not a bad place to reflect

You: sometimes, I think if I had been born 100 years ago, I would have been very religious

You: but wasn't

You: and now I have a lot of misplaced faith

You: that I don' know what to do with

Stranger: well...right the conventions of the Edwardian era were quite rigid so you had to be religious

You: I should just make my own religion I guess

Stranger: oh no

You: is that bad?

Stranger: you intend to become a cult leader

You: a cult is only bad if you manipulate your cult members

You: otherwise it's just called an ordinary religion

Stranger: so?is there any guarantee that you wont use other believers to build up your own power base?

You: I don't think I need any power

You: we should give our love to the world that surrounds us

Stranger: thats what Christianity says

You: yes but I dont believe in any god

You: so I can't be christian unfortunately

Stranger: so you need a religion as a set of practices that promote the love your neighbor thing

You: good things are made by plagiarizing ^^

You: mhm, I don't think it's bad if someone made a church and community for these beliefs?

You: you can help other people in your church and support them

You: and overall just feel nice in a community

Stranger: Sounds so rosy

You: yup{

You: ^^

Stranger: well...not sure this would gain any traction considering people already have similar religions except that they have a God and idolatry is important in our culture you know

You: yes, it is sad... I guess I will jut have to be alone then :c

You: but I have my faith!

You: I guess there just won't be many others...

Stranger: when you say something about faith I always think of crusades really even though that isnt even remotely what you mean

You: hmm?

You: what I mean by faith is believing in something even when there is no evidence to suggest you should believe in it

You: for instance, there is no reason you should believe that your neighbor will not steal from you

You: but faith is trusting that they will not

Stranger: yeah but I mean when you say the first that come to mind "religious fanaticisism, the defender of the faith status, the conquest of "divine" fiefs"

You: lol ^^

Stranger: say that*

You: I guess I just ended up defining faith for myself somehow I guess

Stranger: Its just because the idea of fighting for faith is quite common

Stranger: oh nvm

Stranger: my mind perverts everything

You: huh?

Stranger: Just never mind

You: oh okay

Stranger: Sorry

You: hm? why are you sorry?

You: you have nothing to be sorry about

Stranger: Yeah right

Stranger: so yeah I like the crusades ofc did you know that the first crusade was the only successful crusaaade

You: I didn't know!

Stranger: wait I think I got carried away with all these crusades

You: although I think it depends on your side

Stranger: I mean there never were any "muslim crusades"

Stranger: they use a different term

You: but I mean the all attacke jerusalem?

You: *they all

You: at different points in history

Stranger: Well yes

Stranger: the holy land right

You: yup

Stranger: but actually Judea has always been plagued with bloodshed

Stranger: when Hadrian was Roman emperor Jews rebelled against Roman rule and commited genocide against Romans

Stranger: based on religion

You: killing is mean

Stranger: you can see similar stuff happening nowadays

Stranger: its effectively the most restless spot in the world

You: mhm

You: although sometimes I wonder how it compares to Sudan

Stranger: what about it?

You: idk if the palestinian area is worse, or if it's a matter of we just pay more attention to it

You: or if there are also places elsewhere in the world that are worse/very bad

Stranger: well the conflict there has been around for a long time and its an ethno religious conflict thats why we pay so much attention to it

Stranger: and also Israel may possess nuclear weapons

Stranger: which is also why some people are concerned about the current situation in the middle east

Stranger: oh and also Trump supports Israel which is also why some people are ever more concerned about Israel

You: hmm

Stranger: and also the jews are considered one of the most oppressed people on Earth

Stranger: oh wtf am I saying

You: hm?

Stranger: no nvm

Stranger: Sorry

You: okay

Stranger: But again Hadrian banned the Torah law

Stranger: and

Stranger: many jews were sold into slavery

Stranger: and they were banned from practicing their religion

Stranger: oh I like Hadrian so much

Stranger: He did so much good for Rome

You: I just feel like I only know the wall that's named after him

Stranger: and the city

Stranger: Adrionople

You: hadrian... remove the H?

Stranger: In some languages H is silent thats why

You: oh okay

Stranger: its quite weak in English as well

Stranger: in French it doesnt exist at all

Stranger: although its still used in writing because the spelling is a mess

You: language can get weird

Stranger: well yes especially if its Germanized vulgar latin that borrowed lots of frankish vocabularly from an old dutch superstrate

You: I guess a lot of people migrated and moved around ^^

Stranger: Yeah obviously thats how the salic franks came to rule over Gaul

Stranger: OH AND they wrote the salic law

Stranger: they wrote the salic law

Stranger: !!!

Stranger: they wrote the salic law

You: you sound really excited ^^

Stranger: No its actually very important the salic law caused at least 3 wars

You: oh wow

Stranger: why....why history???

You: did you just read something new?

Stranger: no really

Stranger: why did you tag history

You: I forgot to remove the tag since I just wanted to learn about the balkans

Stranger: do you generally talk about history

You: hmm I talk about anything really

Stranger: oh where are you from?

You: us east

Stranger: Pensylvania?

You: nope!

You: that's pretty specific

Stranger: Constantinople?

You: even more specific lol

Stranger: Virginia?

Stranger: see I am good at geography

You: constantinople, idk if there's a us city of that name

Stranger: well I didnt mean it in a serious way

Stranger: are you from Virginia?

You: nope

Stranger: Washington?

You: I feel like I should stop answering because you will guess it eventually lol ^^

Stranger: did I guess it though?

You: I plead the fifth!

Stranger: Oh but you should definitely rename your hometown Constantinople because it sounds more Christian than anything

You: well there are a bunch of places with strange names

Stranger: Trumpoletania?

You: is that an actual place?

Stranger: no just my imagination and alternative present

You: Maybe in 100 years

You: and they continue to name avenues after US presidents

Stranger: i

Stranger: do

Stranger: la

Stranger: try

You: lol

Stranger: even those that owned slaves?

You: are you protestant or is this a modern revulsion of idolatry?

You: they all owned slaves

You: this is america

Stranger: well the presidents that held the position before the civil war did

You: yes and most of the streets named after presidents are usually after the "founding fathers"

Stranger: well thats still idolatry

You: is idolatry bad in your moral-ethical compass of things?

Stranger: and those people didnt embody all the things that the modern day US claims to embody

Stranger: No not necessarily

You: oh okay, I'm just curious

You: because all forms of commemoration can be interpreted as a kind of idolatry

You: well, frankly its in the eyes of the beholder

Stranger: well when you have a large statue of Stalin in front of your house then its obviously idolatry

Stranger: and I do want a statue like that

Stranger: to idolize the greatest leader of the USSR

Stranger: see I dont see idolatry as necessarily bad

You: mhm but it's different depending on if you commissioned the statue or if someone else visits your statue 100 years in the future

You: the meaning can change in the eyes of the beholder

Stranger: well the only difference is how many people are affected by the cult of personality

You: fair enough

Stranger: I think in the US there should be a few statues of Stalin

Stranger: privately owned ones at least

You: lol

You: I'm not always sure why I understand people idolize people

Stranger: why are you so alien

You: because I clearly can't speak english

You: ^^;;;;

You: how is it possible to type something and have the words come out all in the wrong order?

Stranger: just like any other human you should understand why people idolize other people and elevate them above others

Stranger: dyslexia

You: are there more people that you idolize?

Stranger: Lenin,Marx,Ernst Thalmann,Niccolo Machiavelli, Pinochet and Mussolini

You: that's such a nice spread

Stranger: oh wait no

Stranger: I dont like Machiavelli Pinochet or Mussolini

You: oh that's too bad

Stranger: why

You: idk, it's good to like a diversity of things I think

Stranger: it depends actually

Stranger: is the world diverse?

You: diversity is a strange word and I don't know how to process it

Stranger: Mussolini could process it easily

You: ^^

Stranger: shut up

You: :c

Stranger: is the world diverse

Stranger: answer me or face my wrath

You: umm... yes...?

Stranger: do multiculturalism and small religious cult based on the concept of love towards your neighbor run by mentally ill people make it more diverse?

Stranger: cults*

You: hmm maybe?

You: I think it is a bit abstract to quantify diversity

Stranger: I think it's a bit abstract to quantify numbers

You: lol ^^

Stranger: you cant counter my statement

You: of course

Stranger: you lose

You: it's okay, I think it can be fun to lose sometimes

Stranger: thats an overromanticized idea created to make up for the horrors of losing

You: mhm the way I would analyze it is probably as a reactionary sentiment towards the competitiveness of modern culture?

Stranger: competitiveness of modern culture? what do you mean by modern culture?popular culture?

You: mhm gaming pops into my mind immediately

You: or the set of sentiments related to that kind of competitiveness for fun

Stranger: well this is unrelated to what we were discussing a few minutes ago though and is merely part of some cultures

Stranger: not all of them ofc

You: yup, it's unrelated

Stranger: are you irrelevant

You: sorry!

Stranger: thats a genuine question

You: oh I read it backwards lol

You: "you are irrelevant" lol

Stranger: seems like you are used to insults

You: mhm probably~

Stranger: but, are you irrelevant?

You: I think it depends on your frame of reference?

You: I suppose I must be relevant to myself

You: I have no idea if I'm relevant to others though

Stranger: Okay let me put it this way. Why do your parents consider you to be irrelevant?

You: hopefully not!

Stranger: but they do

Stranger: that's a well-known fact

You: okay go on

Stranger: No that's all I've got to say about your irrelevant now tell me, why do your parents deem you irrelevant

Stranger: irrelevance

You: um, apparently this is news to me, so I was hoping you could explain

You: that said, it's really hard for me to know what other people think

You: because um, I'm not them

Stranger: harness the power of lightning and use it to develop an ability to read human minds

You: is that a reference towards electricity and.... idk what technology

Stranger: Perhaps

You: I dunno, I don't know a lot of things

Stranger: that's true

Stranger: you know very few things

You: yup

Stranger: But it's perfectly okay to be ignorant

Stranger: I know a lot of ignorant people

Stranger: who I am very good friends with

You: okay

Stranger: you're ignorant.

You: I don't really mind that much tbh

Stranger: you are ignorant

You: mhm

Stranger: you are ignorant

You: why are you repeating it?

Stranger: you are doomed to be ignorant forever

You: I don't really see ignorance as an absolute though?

Stranger: because I've been told that psychological abuse works like this

Stranger: well I deal in absolutes.

You: oh, were you experimenting with something?

Stranger: Yeah, with neo-absolutism and its psychological basis

You: I'm not totally sure how to reconcile that statement

Stranger: The gracchi brothers tried to reconcile the senate and the roman people after an inflow of unpaid slave labor and cheap grain bankrupted the small farmers

Stranger: But to no avail

Stranger: disgruntled senators assassinated the gracchi brothers and thousands of their allies

You: that's a bit sad

Stranger: yep just like your life

You: I'm quite happy with my life actually

Stranger: you arent

You: hm? how so?

Stranger: You are constantly told that you're a failure

You: I was wondering why you changed the topic to "why your dad beats you" earlier?

Stranger: Oh I was trying to help you with your family problems

You: oh, I don't live with my parents though

Stranger: why not

Stranger: you should leech off your parents

You: idk because I don't need to?

Stranger: why not??

Stranger: you can ask your parents to subsidize Malta

You: I dunno, I don't need to

You: I wonder why I don't do things I don't need to do

Stranger: why dont you want Malta subsidized

You: because I am selfish

Stranger: what's the etymology of the word selfish?

You: self-ish?

You: sell-fish?

Stranger: in the past the self part meant "I" (similar to the greek word ego) so in Old English they said "ic self" in middle english it came to mean "a person who has no identity"

Stranger: and I think when you say selfish

Stranger: you mean that you have no identity

Stranger: that somebody has stripped you of your identity

You: okay, I can live with that I guess

Stranger: and now you're lost,trying to make your life meaningful

Stranger: but decades of degeneratation have affected you

Stranger: what creates degeneracy?

You: I dunno~

Stranger: you're not smart :/

You: I thought we established that earlier?

Stranger: we didnt

Stranger: you're not smart :////

You: lol okay

You: I wonder what creates degeneracy

Stranger: keep wondering

Stranger: perhaps one day you will find your answers

You: mhm okay ^^

Stranger: you aren't smart

You: yup

Stranger: you aren't smart

You: you really like the repeating thing

Stranger: its really interesting that when you had to choose between shame and arguing you chose shame you know I am a psychology graduate(graduated 2 years ago) and this is actually a sign of a weak personality

You: ohh that's really cool!

You: also congrats

You: I don't mind having a weak personality

Stranger: you're a weakling

You: lol

Stranger: look at yourself

You: I think you are probably affirming a component of my identity?

Stranger: you cant even lift a table

You: maybe that is why you are not getting as much of a reaction?

Stranger: of a reaction?

Stranger: this is a bit out of place

You: hm?

Stranger: I am trying to help you with your mental problems

You: oh okay

You: I thought you were repeating because you were expecting me to say something different

Stranger: that too since this would give me some info about your retention character

You: (retention character, meaning...?)

Stranger: google it, I wont tell you since I realize that you must learn to find all sorts of helpful information on your own

You: I feel like I am not heading in the right direction with googling "retention character"

Stranger: wanna know why I chose that term?

You: why?

Stranger: Its probably the least popular term outlined in the book "the interpretation of dreams" by Sigmund Freud and I am well aware that it doesnt have a wikipedia page so you'll have to skim over the book and maybe you'll find it there

You: oh okay

Stranger: you must learn that sometimes its very hard to acquire useful information

You: I guess so

Stranger: I am beginning to think that you have trouble learning

Stranger: not dyslexia but something different

You: mhm can you elaborate more?

Stranger: No. You have to process my ever word and muster all of your brain power to get your answers

You: aww, I would appreciate it if you just said it ^^

Stranger: No. You must learn how hard it is to obtain information

Stranger: I am trying to help you.

Stranger: stop resisting

You: Okay, I'm a bit lazy though

You: or maybe I am lazy today

Stranger: thats the problem

You: I am unclear about how I am resisting

Stranger: you are always lazy

You: okay that is probably true too

Stranger: ignorant, lazy and pitiful

You: I dunno about pitiful

Stranger: I feel sad for you

You: although I guess from an external party I guess that is possible

You: it's okay you don't need to feel sad

You: I'm quite happy

Stranger: you aren't

Stranger: stop lying

You: I try very hard not to lie

Stranger: the biggest lie I've heard from you so far

You: hm?

Stranger: is you say

Stranger: ing

Stranger: that

Stranger: you try very hard not to lie

Stranger: an ignorant

Stranger: lazy

Stranger: liar

You: okay, I'm not totally sure if I am following

Stranger: its okay

You: but if you think that way it's fine too ^^

Stranger: wait I think I know why you disgust some people

Stranger: especially your parents

You: go on

Stranger: you are ignorant and lie too much

You: mhm I'm a little bit unsure how people can tell what are lies though

You: but yes I am ignorant

Stranger: some can some cant

Stranger: I can

You: okay that's pretty nice intuition

Stranger: not intuition you dumb fucker

You: hm? what then?

Stranger: you've got be more careful about what you say

Stranger: because about 70% of what you say is gibberish

You: oh... I'm sorry then

You: I guess I should try to be clearer?

Stranger: you say intuition when its the critical method

You: ah okay

Stranger: No you should stop speaking. At all

You: I didn't know

Stranger: for about a month

Stranger: and then start speaking again

You: I don't really want to do that

Stranger: but in a more reserved manner

You: how do I speak more reserved?

Stranger: First of all throw words that you most commonly use away they are the worst and they make you sound dumb and ignorant so dont say nihilism (this is what you say in almost every situation) dont say unsure because this makes you sound uncertain and thus weak and silly

You: is it bad to sound weak/uncertain?

Stranger: it isnt bad to sound uncertain when its justified

Stranger: but you're literally both dumb and uncertain

You: mhm, but I don't really understand why strength is valued as a virtue

Stranger: It isnt valued as a virtue you moron

Stranger: you seek opposites

You: huh?

Stranger: thats a retarded way of thinking

You: can you explain more?

Stranger: "can you explaim more" is the backbone of your everyday vocabularly

Stranger: throw it away

You: mhm but I don't always understand things, and it would be helpful if people clarified their statement

Stranger: you never seek answers. you want others to find them for you

Stranger: thats why you're so dumb by the way

Stranger: so get rid of it

Stranger: you dont need that phrase

Stranger: imbecile

You: is the a better way to ask for feedback?

Stranger: You dont need feedback at all. Forget about feedback. You should never request feedback

You: mhm why?

Stranger: "why" get rid of this

You: I feel like it is hard to justify doing something unless you know the reason

Stranger: another rule you should apply

Stranger: Dont argue with people who are much better than you

You: I didn't realize I was arguing you though...

You: I thought I was just asking for an explanation

Stranger: I told you to get rid of "why" in your speech and you tried to justify using why

You: ah okay

Stranger: throwing arguments at the interlocutor creates an argument

Stranger: fool

You: I don't really feel like doing the things you are suggesting though

Stranger: buffoon

You: I'm sorry if it seems disrepectful

Stranger: clown

You: I feel like clowns are kind of scary actually

You: I don't really understand why they are invited to birthday parties

Stranger: your behavior is that of a clown

Stranger: but it isnt scary

You: hmm, clowns are for generating entertainment and laughter?

Stranger: yep thats why you usually try to but it doesnt really make you seem funny when you're required to hold a proper conversation

You: sorry

Stranger: try to do

Stranger: idiot

Stranger: shame on you

Stranger: shamee

You: I don't understand shame in all of its aspects actually

Stranger: Shame

Stranger: on you

You: is the meaning of that phrase that I should feel shame, even though I don't?

Stranger: shame on you

You: ^^ okay

Stranger: clown

You: you seem to be very patient

Stranger: you've gone so boring...

You: sorry

You: I think I just have difficulty understanding you

You: I'm not always sure when you are being sincere vs. just having fun

Stranger: are you going to bring something interesting into the convo

You: umm I'm not sure I know what you consider to be interesting

You: I can guess at things

You: also is it late for you?

You: sorry if I've kept you up

You: I know I took a lot of your time

Stranger: lol I wouldnt damage my sleep pattern because of people like you

You: okay that's good ^^

Stranger: the only reason Ive been talking to you is boredom but as I already mentioned you've become very very boring

Stranger: so I have to wish you a happy life and say goodbye

You: sorry

You: okay you too

You: I wish you the best

Stranger: byeeeeeeeeeeee

Stranger has disconnected.

#omegle #history #religion #roman history #cults #jerusalem #crusade #ignorance #mental illness #faith #I was acting a bit silly here and this conversation was very strange

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