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wingzie · 3 years

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Brutally Honest Reactions to Jikook

It was requested on Twitter that I talk about the less positive posts about Jikook moments from my live reactions research. These will NOT include any screenshots, but I will discuss what I saw. I will continue to keep posting positive things about Jikook, but the fandom reaction towards Jikook is one of the reasons why I feel so strongly about supporting them so much. Please read ahead if you are interested. I will also keep it out of the Jikook tag.

I will quickly add my own experience here before I continue. I am an early 2019 ARMY. I didn't follow any BTS accounts on Twitter until after I caught up on content. I then started following Jikook accounts once I got braver, because I could see a clear difference in the way the fandom talked about them. (Or not at all in some cases.) It wasn't until I started following Jikook accounts, that I knew about GCF Tokyo. For a fandom that hyped up Jungkook being a director for LGO, his previous work and especially GCFT is rather ignored. Especially when it's obvious that Jungkook has always had an interest in making videos.

GCFT

An important factor here is that GCFT was posted after Jimin's lovely twitter edit. From what I saw, no one had any real issues with Jimin's edit. The general consensus was that it was sweet that Jimin and Jungkook were finally able to go on a trip together and that Jimin made an edit out of it. But if that's the case, why were there then issues when GCFT was posted, that are still here today?

Compared to Jimin's edit, there is a clear sense of jealousy when GCFT was released. A "sweet trip" turned into a "not big deal" or started to include fake narratives. Some of which really confused me at first, until I asked someone at the time and got the truth.

There is a sudden change of tone aimed towards Jikook: “How dare they go on a trip together?” and “how dare they share it with us this way?.” It's clear to me that this jealously suddenly began because of the editing style, the camera shots and the song used. All of which made you feel a certain way when watching GCFT, if you were not so blind or bitter. However, the fandom did it's best to try to belittle JK's work. Saying excuses such as the song was not intentional or that the editing choices were coincidental. That's not the case at all and to quote a certain song "this is no coincidence."

There is an interesting notion that some shippers and y/n's turned to fan fictions after GCFT was released. This suggests to me that they did indeed in fact feel the same way about GCFT. They got the message loud and clear, but had to try to tune it out with another fantasy because of what they felt. They wanted what Jimin and Jungkook had for themselves or another member.

GCF's after GCFT

After GCFT there was a need to show: "look Jimin and Jungkook aren't that close." Which Jikook didn't get the memo of and it shows that people were keeping an eye on them. However, this was only to be able justify their negative thoughts about the possibility of two men being together. They couldn't stand the idea and came up with every excuse possible to deny it. There were a fair amount of “don’t assume their sexuality” posts floating around.

There was also a definite shift after GCFT with Jikooker’s themselves. Of course they were supportive, but much more discreet about it. Afterwards though ,and up through to today, they got louder about Jimin and Jungkook's bond. It's clear this reflects in the fandom perception of them together as a unit or just on the timeline itself. There is almost an annoyance whenever they show up.

The newer GCF’s turned more into a competition between the members. Something which sadly continued even with the Life Goes On MV. Rather than seen as a cute maknae trip in Osaka, GCFO was used as leverage against Jikook to prove that they weren't that close. Which is bizarre in itself and it was like Jimin wasn't in the video at all.

The outrage that sparked when GCFH was released showed the true hypocrisy of the fandom. Jungkook set the tone beautifully to match the Winter Package location of Helsinki. The fact so many quickly jumped on this, but ignored his skills previously is very telling. For all those yelling about appreciating Jungkook, they only yell when it's about making themselves feel better about something.

Rose Bowl. I don't need to introduce this. However what I found interesting is that people outside of ARMY were more accepting of what happened than actual ARMY. It also made me question what the definition of "ot7" is, because these accounts were going around underneath posts with "stop shipping”, “they're just bros" or my most hated one "they do stuff like this in South Korea all the time."

The last one is an absolute hate of mine and is always used by NON Koreans. ARMY are often all about Korean culture until it's something they don't want to hear or know about. A general translation account has already pointed out that Jikook are extremely close due to lack of honorifics and it moe or less got ignored. Another account will mention the same , but for another unit, and it's worshiped to high heaven. Yet Jikooker’s are delusional for being the ones to understand the cultural significance of it?

Jungkook's Birthday in 2019

I am actually going to be calling out Jikooker’s here because the reverse happened this time. Others found Jimin’s Birthday video sweet, whereas Jikooker’s were being extremely rude and disrespectful ON the timeline towards Jimin about it. Plus the usual "Jikook broke up" malarkey that pops up twice a month happened. I only recently started researching this and I’m not even sure I can make a thread on it, because there was so much fighting on the Timeline about the Birthday video.

This is what spurred me on to write my twitter post about being careful about what you post and where your priorities lie. A lot of Jikooker’s were upset before Jimin posted. Not because "he hasn't posted.”, but because "he hasn't posted [for me]."

This is something that Jikooker’s have to wrap their heads around. We only see a tiny percentage of their daily lives. They also have each other's phone number and see each other daily. They also know each other extremely well and probably better than any of us actually will. It is not up to us what they post or what we see. Do we miss them? Of course. However, to instantly start hating them for that is wrong. You're acting just like the fandom first did when GCFT came out. These same people also acted like nothing had happened as soon as Jimin posted the photo of Jungkook later on.

Seoul Final

For those that don't remember Rose, she was a k-army translator that went to Seoul Final. In one of her live shows afterwards, she explained how other Karmy were surprised by Jikook's closeness on stage. It wasn't just us.

However ,on Naver, there was a storm brewing about Jimin treating Jungkook inappropriately and the way they were acting on stage. This was first started by Jungkook akages and then spread around to some of the fandom who decided to jump in.

This is one example of people using K-army as a weapon. That they know *best* when they suffer the same on their side with solos etc... It's also another example of the hatred towards Jimin.

This isn't something new. Shipping was fairly peaceful and kept its original definition of wanting two people to be together. Even if this did include two real people. It wasn't until the definition of shipping morphed into something new and possibly real, that things started to erupt in the fandom. And this eruption was sadly placed onto Jimin, as people saw him as a disruption to their fantasies.

This defamation of both Jimin and Jungkook's character from the fandom has been present since the beginning. They are seen as liars or not intelligent. That their closeness is fake, even though you can clearly see it from the start and then develop over the years. It's something that has always been beautiful to witness whilst watching, old content and new.

These examples of fandom reactions I have used are ones all related to expectations. If Jimin and Jungkook do not act as expected or they shock the fandom, one side will react negatively. The fandom also do not seem to like seeing Jikook be so loud, so to speak. And with the emergence of more Jikooker’s on social media, this horrid view of them will no doubt increase Though many hate the term Jikook. It signifies the unit of Jimin and Jungkook and no matter what, they will do what they want too and continue to do so. Thank you for reading and feel free to ask questions if you have any!

#wingzie #wingzieobservation

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cruelfeline · 4 years

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In light of all that we’ve learned with this most wonderful final season, some people have asked me to reassess Hordak’s backstory monologue. To see how Hordak’s narrative fits with what we now know about his home. To try to discern exactly what its discrepancies are, and why.

I’m going to do that! But before I do, I would remind everyone: this is a little difficult to fully untangle because, given that Hordak is not a main character and thus does not have the focus that we’d like, we really don’t know a whole lot about the Horde in terms of function, social roles, and general history. So this is going to be very much limited by what I can glean from exactly what the show gives us.

That said, it’ll hopefully still be interesting. So!

During season three, after recovering from his syncopal episode, Hordak describes to Entrapta what he is, what he was, and how he came to be on Etheria. He describes himself as a defective clone who, once upon a time, was the top general in the galactic Horde. When his defect became too much of a burden, he was apparently demoted, sent to the front lines to fight until death, and arrived on Etheria by way of unexplained portal.

This is what Hordak tells us, and, as far as we know, he’s not lying. Hordak, as portrayed in the show, is a very honest person, both in his own actions and in the actions he expects of others. He greatly dislikes deception and does not appear skillfully capable of it himself (save for that one time). Knowing this, we generally have to assume that, in his own mind, what Hordak is saying is true.

So. What gives, right?

After all, once we see the galactic Horde in action, we learn that it is a played-straight, honest-to-the-gods cult. There’s nothing distinctly military about it. It’s not a bigger, grander version of Hordak’s Etherian Horde.

It is a cult with a god-brother-creator at the helm, commanding countless identical acolytes who live their lives in slavish devotion to their master. There do not appear to be any ranks. We hear nothing about any generals, let alone a “top general.” There doesn’t even appear to be a need for anything like that, because Prime doesn’t seem to really delegate to his brothers in a way that singles them out or relies on real autonomy from them.

He can, after all, read their minds at will and slip into their bodies whenever he fancies. If he needs to make a decision about a battle on a planet at the other edge of the galaxy, he can just take over a body on that planet and make said decision himself. Or, at the very least, enter the relevant clone’s mind and influence the decision as needed. He doesn’t need, and certainly doesn’t appear to tolerate, clones taking their own initiative.

So, again: what gives? What does Hordak mean by “top general”? Why does he think he has this elevated role when we can see that Prime considers all of his clones the equivalent of faceless bodies to be used a he likes?

Well, while we will likely never know the full truth, given the lack of Horde background detail, we can safely assume some things from what canon shows us.

Namely that, while all clones appear indistinguishable and do not seem to have named rank, there are definitely clone positions that work more closely with Prime than others. His attendants are one example. Those who are in his throne room feeding him information while he is working are another. (Hordak actually appears to be one of these, at least while Prime is trying to hack the Heart of Etheria, when Entrapta is captured.) And then, of course, there are the chosen vessels that will one day house Prime’s consciousness.

All of these positions can likely be occupied by any clone, with bodies switched out as needed (likely what happened when Hordak got sick). I doubt that individual clones have any sort of real rank. Prime knows this. Hordak and his brothers, I suspect, may not fully understand it.

Rather, I would not be surprised if Hordak, deceived and indoctrinated into believing things about himself and about Prime that are not true, misinterprets the nature of his purpose and the truth of his relationship with his Brother. He believes that, fulfilling whatever role he was fulfilling for Prime, he was a general, an individual of note, an individual that Prime specially valued. Perhaps he fulfilled the role long enough that, in all but name, it became “his.” Perhaps he even fulfilled it well enough that Prime praised him frequently, cementing this unfortunate delusion. Perhaps Prime gave him legitimate favor - a false thing, of course; simply a controlling tool, but Hordak did not realize that.

Without canon confirmation, we can really only speculate, but these ideas seem reasonable.

Details aside, the point of the matter is that Hordak sees himself as “top general” because he sadly doesn’t understand that he is an interchangeable piece of a utilitarian machine. He truly thinks that he has this coveted position, that he is particularly useful, special, of great value. It’s a tragic misunderstanding that simply fuels his misguided devotion to Prime and prevents him from seeking freedom when he is given the opportunity.

It’s something, I think, that people in very controlling religious organizations often end up thinking: that they are especially valued, worthy in some way that others are not. It’s part of how the organization controls them.

By the by, there is also the theory that Hordak has suffered memory erasure before and is thus doubly confused, filling in blanks with fantasy, but given that we have no direct evidence of that, I’m not really going to go into it; it’s a popular bit of speculation, though.

Now, however, let us examine a different aspect of this. Labels aside, delusions aside, we are left with another conundrum: however Hordak interprets his position, it is very clear to us that said position does not actually offer the power or respect that a legitimate high military rank would offer. It does not appear to provide Hordak with any special treatment.

Once upon a time, back when we first learned of Hordak’s backstory, it was somewhat assumed that the position would do something like this. Numerous fans speculated about how it might be a position that gave a clone dominion over others, or over their own personal ships or planets; some fans suggested that it might give a clone the right to a name. Now, of course, we know that none of these speculations are true: all of Prime’s clones are essentially interchangeable; all are part of a hive mind that eliminates the need for certain clones directing others; no clone is allowed a name, no matter what their current job might be.

So. What, exactly, is Hordak practically gaining here? Despite this position appearing to hold zero effective esteem, despite it necessitating Hordak giving up his self and his autonomy, it is abundantly clear that he desperately wants it back. Why?

What about this position, whatever it may or may not be called, would provide Hordak with this sense of value, of specialness, of personal worth? After all, Hordak may be deluded, but he’s not stupid; even indoctrinated, he can tell that he doesn’t hold dominion over other clones, or have a right to his own name. He can tell that he doesn’t receive any functional privileges, that his own sense of value doesn’t translate into anything that you or I would think is “worth the price of admission,” so to speak.

In light of that incredibly steep price, what does this position offer, in a world where military rank appears irrelevant? What does it offer, in exchange for Hordak’s name and his bodily autonomy and his freedom? In short, what does it offer that makes Hordak think it worth sacrificing so much for?

Well.

It offers closeness to Prime, doesn’t it? It offers the chance to work near him, to bask in his presence, to be spoken to and looked upon and touched by him. It offers the chance to receive his praise, personally. It offers the chance to perhaps - hopefully, wishfully - receive his love.

Because that’s what Hordak really wants. Not dominion over others, or a fancy military title. He wants that emotional connection. He wants that approval and validation. He wants love. And for so much of the series, for so much of his life, he believes that love comes only from Prime. That working closely with him, being of use to him, will provide him with that sense of belonging and acceptance and affectionate care that he hungers for. That it will make him worthy and loved.

(There’s a line in the deleted Entrapdak scene, where Prime calls Hordak the “most unloved and unworthy” among his brothers that really cements the idea that worthiness is synonymous with love within the galactic Horde)

This is what marks the position as “special” in Hordak’s eyes: it is special because it stands the greatest chance of providing him with Prime’s love.

All of it is a lie, of course. Because Prime only “loves” his brothers as extensions of himself, and even then, only if they are physically useful to him. Once Hordak starts to lag behind due to his illness, he is quickly removed from Prime’s presence and sent to the front lines, destined to fight until defect or battle kills him. And yet it is a lie so powerful, and the clones’ need for Prime’s love so great, that he is able to use it to control them even when they are separated from him. To the point that a sickly clone trapped in a shadow dimension will forgo freedom in his desperate bid to feel wanted and treasured by his cruel god.

Eventually, thankfully, Hordak finds a true version of the connection he craves, someone who looks at him and acknowledges him, values him and loves him as he is, without him needing to prove himself useful. He finds Entrapta, and she provides that love that he sought from Prime.

This is why, even though Hordak actually ends up working in Prime’s throne room again, ends up close to him once more, he breaks free from control and kills his Brother. Throughout season five, Hordak remembers Entrapta. He remembers how she makes him feel. He remembers her love... and he realizes that it is not the same as Prime's. It is sincere. It is unconditional. It accepts him as his own flawed person, rather than the perfect drone Prime wants him to be. It is deeper and more true and more real than the hollow sham Prime offers.

And so Hordak rejects this once-coveted position, rejects Prime, and frees himself. He makes the choice between a false, controlling “love” and the real, heartfelt thing. He makes the choice, and he chooses Entrapta.

In the end, the greatest disconnect between what Hordak tells us in season three and what is true isn’t the word “general,” or even the cruel difference between how Prime views the clones, and how they view him. It is the impression of why Hordak wants such a position at all, of what it means to him. What initially comes off as a disgraced military man seeking to regain former glory is actually a lost, unloved soul desperately searching for the emotional connection he needs.

And, after many mistakes, after much hardship, he finally finds it.

#hordak #horde prime #entrapta #entrapdak #she ra

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mcmactictac · 3 years

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is wolfstar canon

Hello and welcome back to another episode of I analyze your favourite ships and let you know if they’d be canon if a coward wasn’t writing them.

I have read all the Harry Potter books and watched all the movies, I have not read All the Young Dudes but I have consumed lots of mauraders content so I’m really hoping all of these points I’m making are canon.

Let’s start with Remus Lupin. That’s a queercoded bitch if I’ve ever seen one. Now I’m always a sucker for queer coding within magical worlds, as there’s a lot of really subtle things to do with it. Now with Remus being a werewolf, there’s a lot to examine there. When examining queer coding we will ignore the shitty implication that it’s a disease that can be given to you by others because that’s dumb and Rowling sucks. We do not stand for homophobia in this household so I want to make extra clear I don’t want to imply any of that.

That being said, being a werewolf is a thing Remus is ashamed of and feels the need to hide. He hides it from everyone around him because he doesn’t want them to look at him differently. You also have to keep in mind the time period this would be set, being gay can be incredibly unsafe and life altering in a negative way. So he hides it to protect himself, despite the fact he is a child struggling with all this internal self loathing. The constant narrative of being a monster that just pushes you further and further into hiding because you have no idea what would happen if they found out. And eventually he finds close friends who figure it out and they support him, they want to help so he feels less alone. And yes he has this outlet now but it’s still a tightly guarded secret. Something he’s only open with to the people he trusts. His lycanthropy is a clear parallel to being gay and although I hate the implication that it’s a “disease” like. Metaphorically most of the things you look for in queer coding are right there.

You also have to keep in mind that Remus was literally never in a relationship and showed no interest in anyone until like the end with Tonks. And it’s pretty clear to me that Rowling threw that in so people would stop saying he was gay. I like Remus and Tonks and the dynamic they have but like. They seem more like friends, the age gap is weird, there’s no build up, it doesn’t make sense for Remus’s character and it’s just like. Not great? Tonks and Remus are great friends but I don’t really see them together romantically.

I’m going with the fact that Remus is just straight up gay. Tonks seems like a cover, and if I was a person who wasn’t a coward writing this, Remus and Tonks are both aware neither of them are straight and are covering for each other. It’s giving me very “let’s get married so you don’t get drafted to the front lines even though we arent in love” like people did during like the Vietnam war. They get along really well but Remus has no romantic chemistry with any woman ever. That is not a straight man.

Sirius Black. This is another fun one. Since the start of his time at Hogwarts he is marked as “different” from the rest of his family because he isn’t a slytherin. We need to keep in mind the Black family is very wealthy, has a high value on their reputation, and are basically just racist, homophobic and classist people. Difference is not accepted, and Sirius already starts out by breaking that mould. Now l honestly don’t remember how much of his interactions with Marlene are canon so I don’t know if I can argue that but like. Yes I am thinking about it, much like JJ, Sirius overcompensates with being a huge flirt with everyone despite having no real feelings attached to any of them. Throughout growing up he continues to break away from his family, and break away from their problematic views. Being raised in an environment like that instills a sense of fear around you. So even if Sirius knew when he was younger, it’s likely he denied it or never said anything because of fear. By the time he leaves he’s pretty much kicked out of the family. Through his school we can also see how supportive of Remus he is, trying to help him and make him feel as comfortable as possible. Giving him support and love he was never given.

If a coward was not writing this Sirius black should not be straight. I’m not certain if he would be bi or gay, but he for sure likes men. It would fit well and be interesting for his character and story.

So how do they work together? Objectively, really well. I’m going to look at this through a canonical lense, so trying to keep what I can of the story but adding these sexuality headcanons in mind.

Remus and Sirius were ABSOLUTELY together in school. I don’t think they were public about it in the slightest. But this is another gay person you’re close with, you care for who fiercely cares for you despite your family or your “disease”. Remus was totally out first, but just to the Mauraders. Sirius never really comes out. He probably tells James first, mentions it quietly one night after thinking about his family. He knows James will be ok with it because he was always ok with Remus. And James is supportive and never says anything, never treats Sirius any different. That’s still the man who is basically his brother. But he sees how Sirius looks at Remus the same way he looks at Lily. He knows, even if they never tell him. But if anyone were to know, it would be him.

They have the chemistry, the stories line up, they’re good friends and it would make sense. Because of the time period it’s quiet and guarded, a relationship kept from prying eyes. They might love each other but they don’t want anyone to know about their relationship because neither of them are really comfortable or ready being out.

Now after school there’s probably a bit of a splitting apart, knowing they can’t maintain what they had forever. The future isn’t made for them and they know that. And then James is dead, and Peter is killed and Sirius is in prison and Remus is forced to pull himself together and do the best he can to move on without them. Now if we were in a timeline where Sirius didn’t go after Peter, and him and Remus could potentially take Harry? I don’t know. They sure as hell wouldn’t let the Dursley’s take him, but dumbledore also isn’t going to just let them live in peace. They would have to go totally off grid, making sure Dumbledore never took him. The priority here would be keeping Harry safe, not on their own relationship.

Now after POA is where things get messy. Because you essentially have two years here before Sirius dies. Even though Remus knows he’s innocent he went 13 years thinking he wasn’t. That trust isn’t going to magically return overnight, he’s going to have to unlearn all of the wrong things he figured out over the past decade. And this Sirius is different. This Sirius doesn’t need a relationship, he needs support, love and someone to help him. And Remus is there for that. They both still care for each other but they aren’t at a point where they work anymore. They just appreciate the comfort that the other provides. Remus takes care of Sirius the way Sirius took care of him so many years ago. It isn’t about a relationship, it’s about love. That love for each other is still strong, and it’s still there. Nothing is going to change that, they’ll always be a part of each other.

So no I don’t think they got “back together” before Sirius died. Or even if Sirius survived, before Remus died. If by some miracle they both survived the war down the road? Maybe. They’d still have that tight bond with each other and over time and as they heal it might develop again. But no I think they only really “dated” in high school. But that love for each other never really went away. It’s still a huge part of each of them, and even if they aren’t in a relationship that doesn’t mean they aren’t in love.

So in summary:

-Remus is gay. His story is queercoded but in a homophobic way.

-Sirius likes men. It further distances him from his family and is something he has a lot of internal problems with

-they’re secretly together in high school. James probably knows but he never pushes

-post POA they don’t get “back together” but they are still fiercely attached and care about the other deeply. The lack of a relationship is not an indication of no love. They don’t really care about labelling it as much they’re just Remus and Sirius and they just. Need each other

-if allowed to survive till the end they may get back together

So I would say yes, Wolfstar is canon. We have nothing to prove none of this didn’t happen. They could have been together in high school and Harry would never know. And even if the relationship fizzles out, that love is always still there and that never goes away.

If you’re still here this is part of a series I’m doing, and I’m going to be doing this with a bunch of other stuff! It’s all going to be under #deathoftheauthorbirthofthemcmac so if you like this one I’ve got a jjpope one up and more to come!

#deathoftheauthorbirthofthemcmac #harry potter #wolfstar #Remus lupin #Sirius black #James potter #wolfstar canon #remus and sirius #hp #mauraders #the mauraders #mlm ships #queer coded characters #prisoner of askaban

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kinetic-elaboration · 4 years

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February 13: Star Trek Beyond

Some attempted thoughts on Star Trek Beyond.

So first it was bad lol. It is the worst. I thought maybe it would be less the worst than I had previously thought but it really, really is just irredeemably bad.

Trying to keep up with what was actually happening and talk in the group chat was too difficult and I now feel very exhausted lol. And I’m not even sure what I watched.

I liked Jaylah a lot, including her back story, characterization, “house,” traps, and cool mirror tricks.

I also like Kirk in that emergency uniform with the jacket unzipped.

That’s it! That’s all I liked.

In the past I’ve also said I liked the Spock and Bones parts but I honestly wasn’t a fan of them either this time around!

None of the characters felt IC and none of the relationships felt true or were compelling. Which is particularly egregious given that the alleged theme was strength in unity.

The movie was especially lacking in K/S content or even K & S interaction, which obviously didn’t please me. And it’s definitely the worst Kirk characterization I’ve ever seen. There’s no excuse for that either because it’s halfway through the 5YM, which means he should be pretty close to TOS Kirk--yes, he has a different set of experiences, so there’s going to be some variation, but there’s comparatively less excuse for a radically different characterization than in STXI and STID. They should have had Shatner read the script and make notes lol because whatever else you might say about him he KNOWS Captain Kirk.

Like, he (Kirk) lacked humor and charm and, often, confidence. He had moments when he was very smart and moments when he had a commanding presence. But he had just as many moments when he was whiny or bored and his Captain’s log??? I deserve financial compensation for every time I’ve listened to that. Bored of space?? No, this man is bored when he’s stuck on Earth. He stagnates in desk jobs. He is an adventurer and explorer before he’s ANYTHING else; if you don’t get that, you don’t need to be writing Star Trek.

Also, as I have frequently complained, I’m tired of him having no internal conflict or emotional complexity past his father issues. First reboot movie: dealing with his dead father’s memory and his step-father’s abuse. Fine, that makes sense for how they set up the AU. Second reboot movie: entirely motivated by the need for Manly Vengeance upon the person who killed his father figure. And for this redundant story line (in many sense) we had to lose Pike? Third reboot movie: you’d think he’d finally be ready to move on to other conflicts but actually no this time he’s sad about his birthday and having a longer life span than his...you guessed it!! father!! Yet again.

What else has ever motivated him? Legitimate question.

The destruction of the Enterprise was truly horrific. Long, boring, unwarranted, and without any emotional punch. As if it were just any ship! No, she’s a character in her own right and she’s not to be sacrificed like that but please tell me again how Simon Pegg is a true fan who brought the franchise back to its roots?

B said he did like that they split up the crew into unusual units but I have mixed feelings about it. I don’t entirely disagree, but I don’t think they did a lot that was interesting with any of those separated units. Uhura and Sulu are a cool pair (but this would have been a good opportunity to include Sulu’s semi-canonical crush on Uhura but whatever... a different rant) and they almost did some interesting stuff with them. There were glimmers of a caper in that story line and times when I could tell they were straining especially hard to make Uhura, their Sole Female Main--now that they cut out Rand, Chapel, and even Carol Marcus--into something Feminist and Interesting. But it didn’t quite gel for me. Like, Uhura would be having almost interesting dialogue with the villain and holding her own...and then she loses track of her colleague and has to watch that person die, thus undercutting everything she just said about unity and seeming to prove the villain’s point. Is she competent or not?

Bones and Spock are a pair I care about and like but again I think their canonical relationship in TOS is more interesting than STB showed. I personally read them as like...reluctant best friends who originally just had one person in common, and then realized they also like each other too, but they’ll never really say it. They understand each other but pretend not to. They have fun with the barbs they throw at each other. They both deeply love Jim but in different ways. They enjoy their intellectual debates. (That’s one thing that was definitely missing from them here! The intellectual debates!) So again, there was something there but not enough.

And Kirk and Chekov just happened to land near each other; nothing was done with that relationship per se. They really aren’t people who have much of a relationship in TOS so there’s not a lot to work off of but then on the other hand there IS an opportunity to create something new. Maybe I’m being too harsh and too vague but it just didn’t gel for me. The only specific K and C moment I remember was that supremely un-funny joke about Kirk’s aim as he sets off the “wery large bomb.”

But like there are possibilities.. they’re both pretty horny and Chekov is a whiz kid and Kirk is also very smart and has always been smart... Like in other words people Chekov’s age don’t end up on the bridge crew, in either ‘verse, without the Captain’s say, so even though he’s TOS!Spock’s and AOS!Scotty’s protege, Kirk is important to his life. Something with that maybe??

I’m upset that Spock’s individual story line was about whether or not he should go off and make baby Vulcans because, again as I have complained many times before, that was a conflict he faced and resolved in ten minutes two movies ago, and it doesn’t make sense to me for him to bring it up again now just because the Ambassador is dead. Like... the Ambassador told him to stay in Starfleet!! “Ah, yes, I will honor him by doing precisely the opposite of what he wanted me to do.”

Also--if they had made his motivation different or gone into it more, I would have been more into it. Make it about New Vulcan! Say there’s news from New Vulcan that it’s not doing well. Or what if T’Pring got in contact with him? Or what if we used this as an excuse to bring in Sarek?

This is part of a larger point for me which is that STXI set up a really cool AU and STID tried to do something with it--a little hit or miss, but it tried--and instead of pushing even more at the AU and developing it more and doing more with it... STB just ignored it! Was that part of what Paramount was warning about with making it “not too Star Trek-y?” Was it SUPPOSED to be a movie you could watch without having seen the last two? If so they did succeed but like.. .why? They made the supremely ballsy move of blowing up a founding Federation planet two movies ago and now they’ve just forgotten about that and all the reverberations that would necessarily have?

But of course we got a call back to Kirk being a Beastie Boys fan so.... Guess it was Deep all along.

We all three agreed that the core story of this film was potentially interesting but could have been done as a 50-some minute episode of a TV series rather than a whole-ass 2 hour movie. First off, cutting or cutting down the action sequences would have shaved off half an hour easily.

I’m frustrated in large part because there are certain things that are interesting here. I do like the concept of the crew being pulled on to an alien planet by a ship of former Federation crew, from the early days of the Federation/deep space flight, who were presumed missing but are somehow still alive because they have turned into aliens/used alien tech to prolong life, and who have also captured other aliens, like Jaylah, for the main crew to interact with. All of that was cool.

I would even be okay with these old Federation crew being villains but I don’t think that’s necessary or even the most interesting take.

But...first of all, as my mom pointed out, Krall was basically Nero in his illogical motivations: feeling aggrieved because someone who couldn’t help him didn’t help him and then just maniacally wanting revenge. It made more sense to me with Nero in a way. Maybe that was because he was better characterized, maybe it was because his anger was more personal (the loss of his wife), maybe--probably--it was because he was angry at Spock and Spock had actually promised to help, so there was some kernel of logic in his sense of betrayal, even if it was out of proportion etc. Also, Nero’s mania was portrayed as mania--we were all supposed to recognize that the strength of his emotion was warranted but his logic was deeply flawed. I think we were supposed to think Krall had some kinda... real criticism of the Federation, but in fact he doesn’t! He’s wrong! So like if he’d been angry with the Federation for abandoning him but the narrative and the other characters explicitly recognize that he’s wrong--the Federation tried but he was just doing something very dangerous and he recognized that danger on signing on--that might have been more palatable to me.

I’m not sure I’m making sense here entirely or explaining myself as well as I could.

I just don’t entirely get Krall’s beef with the Federation. I don’t get that whole “being a soldier and having conflict makes you strong and having people you can rely on and connections and community makes you weak.” That seems pretty obviously false. It also doesn’t really seem, not that I’m an expert, but particularly in line with military ethos either.

BUT the idea that he had a life that was comfortable to him as a soldier and then the Federation comes in and forms Starfleet and says, actually, we’re going to pull back on the soldiering and up the diplomacy and the exploration and the science--yeah, I could see that. I DO think Starfleet is military but even if you must insist it’s not, it’s clearly based on and formed from the military, and it has certain military functions. So obviously the first people to join or be folded into Starfleet probably were more explicitly military.

So he’s one of those people. Now he’s supposed to be a scientist and a diplomat and an explorer and he doesn’t like that. He’s given this very prestigious and interesting mission and jumps at it. Starfleet warns him, you might go beyond where we can reach, we might not be able to help you. That’s fine. But then when his ship is stranded and he is lost, he gets angry--maybe somewhat irrationally, but understandably--why?? Why did the Federation do this to him? What was even the point? When he put himself in danger before, at least he knew why. But just flying around space for the hell of it, and this is the cost? So that’s what creates his anger.

I thin this could be tied into Kirk’s diplomacy at the beginning--if the scene were written to not be a comedy bit where Kirk looks like an incompetent buffoon and is completely disrespectful the whole time. He’s good at this job and we should say it. But we could emphasize that this IS a diplomatic mission often, just as often as it’s a military or scientific mission. Maybe we could include other bits of their missions, too, to play up the variety of things they do and roles they play.

Another thing I think could be interesting, going back to my point about Spock, Vulcan, and using the first two movies and expanding on the world building... what if Spock wanted to leave Starfleet for better, more well-defined reasons, and we used that? Paralleled the two? Connected the two?

Because I think Vulcan in the AOS verse is very interesting and the movies didn’t do nearly enough with it. First, we have the Romulans showing up way earlier, at least visibly: in TOS, no one knew what they looked like or their connection to Vulcans until Spock is in his late 30s. In AOS, it happens not long after he’s born. So he’s growing up probably with more anti-Vulcan racism floating around the Federation. THEN Vulcan is destroyed. Now it has nothing and it needs to rely on the rest of the Federation, which must be both humbling and frustrating to many Vulcans, on top of the extreme tragedy of losing everything. Most of their population, a lot of their history, their manufacturing, their scientific facilities, their resources, their animals, literally whatever else you can think of that a planet has--all gone. Now all of the survivors have lived some period on an alien planet, by definition, and they’re probably very dependent on the Federation not just to set up the new colony, but to replace all of the resources--natural and Vulcan-made--that they lost. And they’re a founding Federation member, Earth’s first contact. They’re especially important. And now they’re weak, and reliant on others.

So maybe Spock, early on, hears from New Vulcan and they’re not doing well. Maybe we hear from Sarek or T’Pring (...I’d just like to see reboot T’Pring). Maybe it’s not about, or just about, having children, but about being from an important and ancient family, and being seen as a hero for his part in the Narada mission, that makes him want to go and help rebuild their government (taking his mother’s place perhaps? she was on the High Council) or their scientific facilities, or the VSA, or their space travel capabilities--you know Vulcan had space ships of their own, outside of Federation ships. This would be the perfect place to showcase that tension between wanting to be independent--out of pride, out of fear, even--and needing help, because Vulcan could not survive without the Federation, probably less than 10 years out from the original planet’s destruction.

And then you feed it back into Krall.

So I could see like... well the tension, and then Krall comes in, and he's angry that the Federation "abandoned" him, but we actually explicitly address this. Maybe Spock gets to interact with him and say "I get it. You had a life and a mission and a purpose that was comfortable for you. Then the Federation came in and changed everything. A lot of my people are also feeling upset for similar reasons. But here's why actually you're wrong."

So anyway as you can see I’m smarter and more interesting than Simon Pegg.

I also hated, speaking of writers of this movie, the gay Sulu thing and HEAR ME OUT on this. It’s homophobic. His husband doesn’t have a name? Might not be his husband at all? Looks like he could be his nanny or his brother? As B said “at least grab his butt or something.” That was the most sanitized, no-homo depiction of a gay person I’ve ever seen. He’s gay (see, progressives and queers! gay! you like that right!) but DON’T WORRY STRAIGHTS--he’s in a monogamous relationship and has a child, he’ll show nothing but the most platonic physical affection with his male significant other, and the plot point will be so minuscule you’ll need a microscope to detect it. Also, we’ll throw in a no homo joke about two male characters not wanting to hug and we’ll make sure Kirk and Spock interact as little as possible, because we know they give off Big Queer Vibes every time they’re together.

Yes the last point is a little unfair but can you blame me for being angry about all the “look how hip to the times we are” back-patting that went on in 2016 when canonical bisexual Kirk is RIGHT THERE and we could have had ex-boyfriend Gary Mitchell instead of Unnamed Nanny??

Also Sulu is a hella random choice because again, like... he may not have had an s.o. in TOS but nor was there any indication he was gay. So it seems a LITTLE like they picked him because (1) his original actor is gay and gay people can’t play straight people duh so probably Sulu was Gay All Along I mean did you not get vibes???; and/or (2) asexual Asian stereotypes preclude giving Sulu any kind of love interest, male or female, that is actually... sexual, outright romantic, anything.

Anyway I can’t remember if I had any other thoughts, but I’ve said quite enough I think.

I miss Kirk so much... real Kirk... even my version of AOS Kirk who is probably not even characterized that well but at least I worked with love!!!

#the year 2021 #2021: star trek #2021: fandom thoughts #star trek aos #anti-beyond

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young-bev · 4 years

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An essay abt Fabian Aramais Seacaster

This is the essay that i wrote for my greek myth class. The assignment was to find a contemporary example of Hubris and Nemesis.Understand that some story elements are simplified and glossed over bc this was only supposed to be three pages and i wrote five. Idk like one person on tumblr wanted to see it and a few ppl on twitter as well. So enjoy??

In recent years there has been a rise in popularity in TableTop Role Playing Games (RPG), this is due to shows like Critical Role, The Adventure Zone, Not Another DnD Podcast and Dimension 20. These shows have amassed large followings and have even gone and performed live around the world. Viewed as a collaborative storytelling medium, using dice to define the success of one's actions, it is only reasonable to wonder if the traditional storytelling devices seen in classic mythology translates into this medium. Examining the plot to Dimension 20 Fantasy High a clear example of hubris comes to mind. This hubris is shown by a Player Character (PC) named Fabian Aramais Seacaster in the second season of Fantasy High. To understand the significance of the hubris and Nemesis, one must understand Fabian’s personality in the context of this show and how that relates to the situation he was placed in. Understanding Fabian as a character will also allow the viewer to understand how cruel Nemesis was to him. Nemesis’ cruelty can also be examined as a part of games mechanics and reflected in the relations between Dungeon Master and Player.

For ease of understanding, I will first explain the context in which Fantasy High takes place. In the introduction to the show, the Dungeon Master (DM) Brennan Lee Mulligan explains that: “Now we can answer the age-old question of; What if John Hughes ran a tabletop RPG game?” The show follows a group of heroes who call themselves the Bad Kids as they attend the Aguefort Adventuring Academy: the world’s premier training ground for would-be Heroes. It is the first episode of the show that Fabian is introduced. He is a half-elven fighter raised by infamous pirate Bill Seacaster and Hallariel Seacaster. Played by Lou Wilson, Fabian is: “Everything [Lou Wilson] wanted to be in high school; rich and hot.” as he stated in an episode of Fantasy High: Extra Credit. It is here in Fabian’s very first scene that the viewer is given a key insight into Fabian’s hubris. While talking to his father before the first day of school, Bill Seacaster says to Fabian; “You’re my son, you’re a direct reflection of me! You and your glory is the same as mine and my glory! That’s how we relate to each other!” (Mulligan, S1 E1). This statement is important because it will directly play into many of the choices Fabian makes in the following episodes. In the very same interaction, Fabian is gifted by his father an Auguefort Owlbears letterman jacket, as Fabian hopes to make it onto the team with the tryouts happening later that day. The jacket becomes a great symbol for both Fabian’s hubris and identity as he does not initially make the team but still decides to wear the jacket to school nearly every day. As hubris is defined as someone viewing themselves as either above or below their true social rank. hubris is also seen as acting out of an overblown sense of importance. In a society where a social ladder is clear, Jocks and cheerleaders ‘rule the school’ and the nerds find themselves at the bottom, wearing a letterman jacket for a team that you are not a part of is very much believing yourself above your true position on the social ladder.

While the jacket is a minor display of hubris in the first season as Fabian does eventually find his way onto the Owlbears, it is not until Fantasy High: Sophomore Year that Fabian’s hubris is met with Nemesis. In sophomore year, the Bad Kids find themselves on a quest to retrieve the crown of the Nightmare King. Their journey leads them to the pirate city of Leviathan. Here the city is made up of ships roped and assembled together, it floats in the Celestine Sea. On their first night in Leviathan, Fabian separates himself from the party and heads off, now pensive as this city reminds him of Bill Seacaster. On his own, he meets members of his father’s cult. Warlocks who have given patronage to Bill Seacaster as he is now causing chaos as a devil in the nine hells after dying at the end of freshman year. Initially, these pirates praise and celebrate Fabian as he is their patron’s son. They believe Fabian their saviour. Their reaction changes, however, when they ask Fabian to describe how he defeated Bill Seacaster in combat. These warlocks believe Fabian to have killed his father in a grand and epic battle. Although, in actuality, Fabian killed his father in an act of mercy after their home was attacked by mercenaries. Fabian tries to explain this to these pirates and they immediately become frantic and fearful of the lack of potency and power of their patron. They believed Fabian a powerful enough swordsman to defeat Bill Seacaster, thus powerful enough to defeat one of Bill’s long standing rivals, a man named James Wicklaw (Mulligan, S2 E5). With a hurt pride and desperate to prove himself, Fabian declares: “I am perfectly capable of leading an army, Alright? I am my father’s son through and through. And I am as good as he is...” (Mulligan, S2 E5). It is here with wounded pride that Fabian sets out to prove himself in the eyes of his father’s cult. He leads them in an attack against James Wicklaw. Fabian’s hubris here comes from overcompensating for his hurt pride. He goes above his social standing, believing himself powerful enough to defeat Wicklaw on his own. This is however not true, as Dungeons & Dragons is a game where antagonists have challenge ratings and players gain levels in certain abilities. It is up to the Dungeon Master to balance encounters and choose antagonists appropriately. James Wicklaw was a Mind Flayer, listed in the Monster Manual as a level 7 challenge rating. Fabian at the time was a level 8 Fighter (Perkins, p.222). While this seems balanced, Fabian was immediately grappled and stunned, leaving him unable to do anything but watch, while Wicklaw and his crew slaughtered the 20 followers he had brought into battle. Nemesis comes to Fabian by removing his sense of identity. As Chungledown Bim, one of the warlocks says to Fabian before dying; “Ye ain’t no pirate and Bill would spit in your eye…I’m gonna shit in your mouth” (Mulligan, S2 E5). Ultimately these words would affect Fabian so much that they will come to haunt him in later episodes. Punishment in Dungeons & Dragons does play out differently then it does in classic Mythology. Where the gods of the pantheon are near impossible to reason with and are cruel and unforgiving in their punishments, the ones in control of the world of D&D are you and your friends. A good DM is on the side of their players but it is their job to react as the world in which their players find themselves. In this situation, Lou Wilson made a series of dangerous and reckless decisions as Fabian but these decisions were exactly the decisions that Fabian would make. He is prideful, he is overconfident, he is selfish and ultimately insecure when his pride is threatened. By losing his sense of identity, Lou and Brennan made the decision away from the table to push Fabian’s punishment past simply a character choice and into the mechanics of the game. At the table, we see Fabian shed his father’s eyepatch and sword along with his letterman jacket. These items are obvious symbols of Fabian’s sense of self. It isn’t until a later episode that the viewer sees the true effect that losing his identity has on Fabian. He suffers from exhaustion and pneumonia in the following episode and seems to have fallen into a depressive state. In episode 8, the Bad Kids go to face Wicklaw again, this time together as a team. It is here that the viewers and the other players learn that Lou and Brennan decided to remove all classes and feats Fabian had taken throughout the campaign. This leaves him with a single attack. Talking about this decision in the Fireside Chat, Brennan and Lou said: “[Lou Wilson]: A lot of it is a relationship and trust between you and your DM; in that your DM sees you make that choice, the less strategic choice…and meets you in the middle...It was so much more fun because...Brennan rewarded my choices with the reality and groundedness they deserve...’[Brennan Lee Mulligan]: ‘I think there comes a moment when playing D&D, where you can say: ‘I can really blow it and tell a better story’...I need to honor the danger Lou has put himself in and I need to put consequences here and I just can’t be vindictive.” This quote highlights the main difference with how hubris is treated in this media. Nemesis and the other Greek gods do not care, as characters, if their punishments are juste. They are particularly vindictive and often do not care if you die because of your hubris. Athena did not care about the importance of storytelling when cursing Arachne for boasting of her weaving skills, she simply cared that Arachne be punished for her hubris (Buxton, p.80). In opposition to this, a Dungeon Master and their players are more similar to the poets composing the myths. They make choices while considering the narrative, they enforce nemesis in a way that adds to the narrative. Using Nemesis allows the DM to enforce consequences onto the players allowing their decisions to feel more significant and raise the stakes. However, because of teamwork between player and DM, Nemesis will be much more forgiving to a Player Character then a Non-Player Character (NPC) or those showing hubris in myths. In conclusion, hubris and Nemesis still find their place in the world of RPGS. Fabian Aramais Seacaster is a clear example of this. He boasts of his abilities, believes himself a captain, when in actuality he is at his best when working in a team. Nemesis removes his sense of identity and confidence, forcing him to face his enemies without the skills he had honed in the past few years. She forced Fabian to realize that his true strength comes from the bonds he has with his friends and not borrowed from another's reputation. Nemesis forced Fabian to face his insecurities for which he was overcompensating, playing a key part in the larger elements of Fabian’s journey to becoming his ‘own darling man-boy’.

#dimension 20 #dimension 20 fantasy high #dimension 20 live #dimension 20 spoilers #this is the second school project ive done about fantasy high #fabian aramais seacaster #Fantasy high #Lou Wilson #brennan lee mulligan #an essay

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rachelbethhines · 4 years

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Tangled Salt Marathon - One Angry Princess

There’s two halves to this episode. The first is a well constructed, if over simple, mystery for the kiddos to solve. The other is a failed attempt at being ‘deep’ and ‘mature’.

Summary: Attila is finally opening up his own bakery, but people generally don't want to stop by because of his scary helmet. The next day, Monty's Sweet Shoppe is destroyed, and Attila is arrested. He is about to be banished from the kingdom, but Rapunzel makes an appeal to investigate the matter further.

The Episode is Meant to be a Homage to 12 Angry Men, but Misses the Point of the Original Film

So for those who haven’t seen the movie, (though really you should) 12 Angry Men is about a jury trying to decide if an accused person is guilty of a violent crime. At first the evidence seems clear, but one lone juror refuses to vote guilty until the evidence has been gone over again. One by one he convinces the other men to vote not guilty as they each have to face they’re own personal biases.

Sound familiar?

In the show Rapunzel is the sole believer in Attila’s innocence despite evidence to the contrary. She insists on investigating herself while challenging everyone else’s personal biases.

The difference?

12 Angry Men is a hard hitting look at how privilege, prejudice, and cognitive bias can interfere with the American judicial system. None of the jurors are named, but they are all middle class, presumably Christian, white guys. And that is the point. They are all different from the accused; a young, poor, arguably non-white teen (the play is intentionally vague about the kid’s race so that you can slot any minority in there) who has a history of getting into trouble. If you were to change the ethnicity, race, gender, class, or age of any of the 12 characters then you would suddenly have a very different story. It’s their backgrounds and pre-formed opinions that inform their decisions. Even the main protagonist is not exempt from re-examining his own personal biases.

Meanwhile the writers of Tangled: the Series are too busy showing off how clever Rapunzel is to actually deal with the themes of injustice and bigotry that they added in themselves in the first place.

Rapunzel Knowing Attila Before Hand Weakens the Message

In 12 Angry Men none of the jurors know the accuse. In fact, they can’t know him. It’s against the law. In order to have an impartial jury, no one can have any ties to either the defendant or the prosecution, and they must not have knowledge of the case or have had specific experiences that might cause them to be biased or unfair.

Rapunzel being Attila’s friend means that she already has her own bias and an invested interest in making sure Attila goes free. She’s not acting out of the simple goodness of her heart here. She’s doing something that directly benefits herself.

I don’t expect a children’s fantasy show to recreate the US judicial system with all of the complexities there in, but I do expect it to uphold it’s heroine as the selfless person it claims her to be. Yet the show constantly undermines this supposed character trait by only having her help the people she befriends, and only if that help doesn’t require anything emotionally challenging or mentally taxing from her.

How much more powerful would this episode be if Rapunzel was defending a stranger or someone she actively disliked? Imagine if it was Monty who was being accuse and Raps had to swallow her pride in order to do what is right. But that would require the show having Rapunzel actually learn something instead of placing her on a pedestal. It would also mean giving Monty a reason to exist rather than keeping him around to be a convenient red herring.

Rapunzel Shouldn’t Have to Prove Attila’s Innocence

Rather than have a courtroom drama the show opts to have a ‘whodunit’ story instead. This unfortunately gives the implication that Corona’s judicial system runs on a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ mantra, which is backwards to any humane legal system. ‘Innocent until proven guilty’, ‘reasonable doubt’, ‘due process’, are the cornerstones of our modern social ethics.

In 12 Angry Men, we never find out if the accused actually committed the crime or not. That is because his actual innocence isn’t the point of the story. It’s about whether or not the system is working like it should or if it’s being compromised by human error.

Once again, I don’t expect a recreation of the US judicial system, but if you’re writing a story for a modern audience then you need to reinforce modern morals. Simply crouching Corona’s legal system as ‘of the times’ or ‘fantasy’ while ignoring why we no longer have such systems in place reduces the story to puerile fare.

It also means that show’s writers didn’t put enough thought into their world building.

No One Calls Out the Obviously Corrupt System

The show has interwoven throughout its ongoing narrative themes of classism, injustice, abuse, and authoritarianism, but then fails to follow through on those themes by not having any of the protagonists actually examine any of these issues. They just sit there in the background, even as the show tries it darndest to present Rapunzel as an arbiter of reform. However a person can’t bring about change if they can’t even admit that there is a problem to begin with.

In this episode alone we have

Banishment is considered a reasonable punishment for an act of vandalism. A crime that is usually considered only a misdemeanor unless the damage goes over a certain amount. Keep in mind that not even most felonies would be given such a punishment in the real world

Introduces the prison barge that regularly carries away convicts. In the past ‘undesirables’ would be shipped off to prison colonies as a form of persecution. Attila and every other person we see subjected to Corona’s legal system are of a lower class.

Many prejudge Attila based off his appearance, lower class, and past upbringing. However, it is either Attila who is expected to change or Rapunzel who is expected to win people over. At no point is anyone told that they shouldn’t be prejudiced to begin with.

There is no judge, jury, or lawyers. The king alone decides the fate of criminals, the Captain is expected to be the both the prosecutor and the ‘executioner’, which is a conflict of interest, and the defendant has no one to represent them unless they so happen to know a kind statesperson. Meaning you have to be either rich or well connected in order to even have a chance to defend yourself.

Oh and there’s this...

Uh, yeah you do. You’re the flipping king. You make the law. You’re the one to bring charges against Attila, and nearly every other criminal in the show, in the first place.

The show constantly wants us to view Frederic as simply an everyman who is only doing his job, but he’s not. He’s a ruler and as such he has powers and responsibilities that no one else has or ever will have. The series gives both him and Rapunzel all of the privileges of being in charge without holding them to account for the consequences of their actions.

By not pointing out how wrong these actions are, the show winds up avocating them instead. When I call Tangled the Series authoritarian, this is why. Because authority is never questioned even when clearly wrong and nepotism is presented as the solution to conflicts as oppose to being the problem itself.

The Show Introduces Complex Issues but Then Oversimplifies the Conflicts Surrounding Those Issues

The creators of the show have constantly declared that the series is ‘not for kids’. That they were shooting for an older audience than the pre-school time slot they were given. Now ignoring the fact that Tangled was always going to have a built in audince of pre-teen girls and ignoring that children’s media can be mature, TTS lacks the nuance needed to viewed as anything other than a pantomime.

As stated before, this episode alone ignores the very real issues interlaced within the conflict in order to give us an overly simple mystery that anyone over the age of five could figure out.

It’s frustrating to watch the show constantly skirt towards the edge of complexity only to see it chicken out and go for the low hanging fruit instead. As a consequence the series winds up being for no one. Too shallow for adults and older teens, but too confused in its morals to be shown to small children and younger adolescents.

I wouldn’t recommend this show to a parent, not without encouraging them to view the series either before or alongside their child in order to counteract it’s ‘lessons’ and I know parents within the fandom itself who’ve stopped showing newer episodes to their kids; stating that they want their child to be old enough to point out the harmful messages to before doing so.

Once Again No One Learns Anything

Rapunzel doesn’t learn that the system is flawed. Attila doesn’t learn to open up to people. Nobody learns to treat people with respect and to not judge others based on appearances alone.

The whole point of the episode is to just show off how much ‘better’ Rapunzel is than everyone else. The show constantly feels the need to tear down other characters in an effort to make its favs look good as opposed to just letting the mains grow as people.

Conclusion

Tangled the tv series is no 12 Angry Men. It’s no Steven Universe/Gravity Falls/Avatar:TLA/She-Ra/Gargoyles/Batman:TAS either. It barely reaches the same level as the likes of DnD, Sonic SATAM, or Voltron. Interesting ideas but poor pacing, build up, and lack of follow through, with some naff decisions thrown into the mix bring things down in quality. And unlike the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon from the early 80s, TTS lacks the benefit of being a pioneer in the field of animation, where such flaws are more forgivable.

#tangled #anti-tangled #Rapunzel #rapunzel's tangled adventure #king frederic #critique #salt

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characterdevelopmentmakesmenut · 3 years

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AUs are great and all, but there's a lot of potential to screw things up in some of them. In the source material, certain characters often go through experiences/events within the story that shape them into who they are at the end, and without those experiences/events, they'd likely be a completely different person at the end. Unless, of course, you write in new experiences/events of the same caliber (for lack of a better term) that will instill the same changes in their character. The same goes for relationships, platonic, romantic, or otherwise -- relationships are often formed/made possible by defining moments in the lives of the characters, such as experiences/events they go through together, or even ones they go through separately that shape them into the kind of person compatible with the other(s).

One of the first examples that comes to mind: For The Hobbit (the movies; I've not yet had time to procure and read the book), a popular AU is time travel: one of the characters is sent back in time, and they retain their memories of the previous timeline, likely for the purpose of fixing certain events. Of course, in a lot of these, the person sent back tries to stop nearly every bad thing that happened on their journey. The problem with this, though, is that some of those bad events were essential to character and relationship development.

For instance, assuming Bilbo wasn't the person sent back in time, each mishap along the way would be crucial in his character development. They bolstered his courage and self-confidence and overall made him into the hobbit we all love at the end. If none of that had happened, he'd likely go through a fair portion of the journey, if not the entirety of it, sort of stuffy and unsure of his abilities. He was quite different at the end of the journey than he was at the beginning, and that's thanks to the many bumps in the road.

Similarly, without some of those mishaps, Bilbo and the rest of the Company wouldn't have as strong of a bond. They were like family near the end because of the perils they had faced together and because Bilbo proved himself to them with his bravery and cunning. The incident with the trolls, saving Thorin's ass, breaking them out of elf jail, walking straight into the den of a dragon and holding his own against it very well for a fair while, and even more events. If none of this had happened, there would be virtually no relationship development between them. I hate to say it, but at the beginning, not many of the dwarves respected Bilbo all that much. Granted, Thorin was probably the worst of them and the most obvious and outspoken about it, but still. These events were necessary for them to see the true Bilbo and for all of them to grow closer together.

Plus, I know a lot of people ship Bagginshield, right? Well, most of those prime shipping moments wouldn't have been possible without a lot of the mishaps. For one, Thorin would still see Bilbo as a wuss and a weakling if those events never happened. Bilbo wouldn't have been able to slowly but surely prove his worth to Thorin. Not to mention the event that finally forced Thorin to acknowledge the hobbit's mettle: Bilbo saving the obtuse dwarf's ass. A more minor detail/factor in their relationship development depends heavily upon how they arrive at Laketown and their choices once they get there. I'm talking about the moment where Bilbo stands up for Thorin and "vouch[es] for [his] character." Depending on what was changed leading up to this moment, it may not happen. Although it's not a super important moment in their relationship development, it definitely helped solidify and strengthen their bond to a certain degree. The same could probably be said about Bilbo's relationship with the rest of the Company too, as they see him standing up for their leader in a crowd of imposing figures. (He was literally the shortest person there and barely hesitated to defy the Master and his lackey (I always forget his name -- Alfrid?)

Another example would be AUs where certain characters never existed or died early (maybe even before they were introduced in the story) or something similar. Whatever the case, the character isn't there and maybe never was. There are multiple ways this could be written well and others not so much. An example of this that quickly comes to mind is a Sherlock AU -- no Mary. See, Mary was an extremely important character for multiple reasons, and if she disappears from the narrative, a lot is changed and must be accounted for (which isn't as bad for one-shots as it is for longer fics). For simplicity and time, I'll stick primarily to the time around her introduction.

When Sherlock disappeared for two years and John thought he was dead, he was having a really rough time. He was struggling until he met Mary. She was the light in the darkness, so to speak. So what happens when you remove her from the equation? What happens with John if he never meets Mary? Nothing good, that's for damn sure. That gives you three options when you write within this AU: (1.) John meets someone else or finds someone he already knows (Lestrade, Mrs. Hudson, etc.) to lean on for support. (2.) John suffers through alone in silence until Sherlock returns. Or, (3.) John is not broken up at all, actually; he is an unfeeling robot.

Take your pick, I guess. Or maybe there's a fourth option I'm not seeing. Point is, Mary was significant in John's healing/recovery after Sherlock's "death," so you would need to write something to fill that void, not to mention the key parts she plays later on (which is probably not much of a problem for one-shots). You can't just ignore her existence and continue on. There must be adequate acknowledgement and adjustment to make it work.

Of course, this isn't to say that these AUs are wrong or bad (I actually love the first AU and am writing a fic of my own for it). These are just examples of my point about how AUs can be messed up. There are many ways to write these AUs very well, and all of the ones I've read so far are great. However, that doesn't mean the potential isn't there. I'm not trying to say AUs in general are bad either, nor am I trying to tell anyone how to write. If you like writing AUs a certain way, don't let me tell you not to. You write what makes you happy. I'd probably read it either way anyway. I'm just a slut for character development and a perfectionist when it comes to my own writing. I expect this out of my writing, not anyone else's, because this is what makes me happy to write.

To conclude, my point here is simply that AUs can seriously mess with character, story, and relationship development, and we, as writers, must be mindful of that. There are sometimes instances where you actually don't even have to worry about it. I think the AUs that generally have this problem the most are the ones set in the canon setting and/or under the canon circumstances. For example, high school AUs are generally free from this and grant a lot of creative liberty. Canon divergence AUs, on the other hand, like one I'm writing for Marble Hornets where a character decides to do something differently, are probably the ones to worry about the most. (I'm pretty sure time travel AUs fall under canon divergence.)

When in doubt, if your AU reminds you of Schrodinger's Cat, be mindful.

#im gonna call this Schrodinger's AU #no im not #fanfiction #fanfic #au #fan fiction #fan fic #au fanfiction #character development #relationship development #that last sentence probably made no sense #but i know what i mean

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sonofsallyjackson · 4 years

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Heroes of Olympus should have been in first-person.

@jo-march-is-a-lesbian wrote a really wonderful post about how “Percy Jackson and the Olympians is better than Heroes of Olympus…because it understood simplicity and character development.” It highlights some reasons I also found HoO less rewarding namely that it was an overcomplicated story with limited character growth, lacked a common thesis, and was super jarring when it switched perspectives.

And with that my little brain went: I can fix this. Which frankly is ridiculous. I can’t come up with a compelling thesis like “The idea that we should place our hope in our loved ones, our friends and our family, and if we do that, we won’t be tempted to give up hope again.” But I can imagine a simple change that would have solved some of the issues and also played to Rick’s strengths as a writer: Each book should have been written in first person and narrated by a different character.

With so many people on the quest, I often felt like I was watching a bunch of one-dimensional characters fight for their right to be the main character. I didn’t know who to focus on but I was also dissatisfied. There were all these new wonderful characters in front of me who I wanted to love, but I didn’t feel like I actually knew them. I mean I don’t feel like I know the Stoll Brothers either, but I’m not concerned about that fact because they are side characters. When everyone is painted as the main character, I have certain expectations for growth, personality, and voice. The story would have been better served if the characters took turns narrating the action, allowing us to settle into their perspective, see their growth, and better understand their personality.

Plus Rick kills first-person. While I’m not particularly a fan of Trials of Apollo, it’s not because I don’t know the characters. Apollo is so very different than Percy. Their voices, even though they can both be jokesters at times, reflect their different life-experiences, thought processes and provide massive insight into their characters. If the Seven (and Nico and Reyna) got the same treatment, I would be absolutely giddy.

I recognize that rewriting the HoO series in first-person is something a talented fanfiction writer with a lot of time on their hands could actually do. But I am not talented like that and I certainly don’t have the discipline to actually write that much fic, especially if I was trying to keep the events vaguely the same just with different narration and pacing. So instead I’ve included who I think should have narrated each book below the cut. I’d love to hear any opinions people have regarding this idea, especially who they would have wanted to see to narrate each book.

In addition to picking the narrator, I’ve highlighted what should be the “quest” so to speak of each story. Personally, MoA, HoH and BoO are kind of a blur to me despite reading them all recently. It’s hard to distinguish what happens in each book because it’s all one massive quest with a whole bunch of mini-quests. While the different narrators would obviously make the books more distinctive, splitting the series into seven books would also help simplify each book’s individual goal. Eight books would have allowed for better integration of the plot to find the physician’s cure, but with the prophecy of seven, it seemed like seven books was the best option, if I was going to be doing something as blasphemous as splitting books.

As a note, I ran out of steam as I went so not all opinions are fully fleshed out.

Book 1: The Lost Hero The Quest: Rescue Hera/Juno Narrator: Jason

Why this would be cool:

He is literally Juno’s chosen sent on a quest to rescue her. It’s poetic enough to give him the book.

Jason’s journey is just as much about rediscovering himself as it is about saving Juno. Of the new characters, I feel like I understand Jason the least. Mainly because I felt like I was missing the entire first half of his story. Jason, like Percy and Annabeth, is a hero of the Titan War. I know some of his accomplishments, but I don’t have any bearing on what his life was like or how he felt about it. He doesn’t seem like the type to relish Praetor-ship since he doesn’t have the same intense need to get back to his camp as Percy. Was he just hoisted on his comrades’ shields after killing the Titan without any real choice in the matter? Give me Jason’s memories coming back slowly over the course of the quest (with potentially a fractured memory of a mistake he made in the Roman’s final Titan battle that makes him doubt their ability to both rescue Piper’s dad and save Hero but he makes the decision to anyway because he can’t just hurt his friend like that. Let me understand how Jason is the person he is today. Give me glances of the Roman Camp with emphasis on the heavy expectations that have always followed him as the son of Jupiter and foreshadow why he eventually chooses to design all the shrines for the minor gods so he can have his own place in the world as a figure between the two camps.

Let’s dive into those feelings of anger/guilt/resentment when people at camp are disappointed with him for not being Percy or in Chiron’s case are nervous about what his presence means.

I want to dig deeper regarding Jason’s feelings about reconnecting with Thalia. He knows that if the gods hadn’t been determined to keep the two camps completely separate, he could have grown up with his sister.

What does telling the narrative like this sacrifice:

We miss some of the internal turmoil regarding the fact that Piper’s Dad has been captured and she must betray her friends.

We also don’t feel the tensions of Piper’s relationship with Aphrodite. I don’t see Piper bringing up the conversation with her mom saying that her mist memories were so strong because she automatically sensed the potential of a romantic relationship with Jason.

We don’t have any of Leo’s conflicted feelings regarding rescuing Hera or his fear of being made an outcast for his fire abilities. Jason has to go with Leo to discover Bunker 9 and Festus.

Leo doesn’t actively save the day with the Cyclops.

We don’t know how Piper feels about her charm-speak or see her defeat Madea (as the boys are in their weird trance thing).

Knowledge about Gaea’s involvement in wrecking Leo’s life will come later.

Book 2: The Son of Neptune The Quest: Free Thantos Narrator: Hazel

Why this would be cool:

The stakes are so incredibly high. Hazel is literally risking her second chance at life by agreeing to go on this chance. She’s going to the place she died to fight the monster she created. She also has to deal with the trauma of knowing she may have bought the world time with her first sacrifice but it now means nothing if she can’t succeed again.

We get to see Camp Jupiter from the view of someone who loves it but doesn’t really fit in. Hazel joined Camp Jupiter just after the final battle. She enters a community that has learned to fight as a well-oiled machine but that has lost people. Dakota or the others may remark to her about how things were before or the people who are missing. Hazel sees a community that she’s not quite a part of both because she didn’t fight in the war and because she’s in the fifth cohort with a feared godly parent.

It would explore her relationship with Nico more (because I love their dynamic and I want more). She knows she can’t replace his real sister, but she feels comfortable and happy at the opportunity to have a brother, especially one who is out of time like she is.

What does telling the narrative like this sacrifice:

Frankly, the largest pushback would be from the fans who expected this to be Percy’s book since we just watched Jason rediscover who he is.

Percy’s phone call to his mom doesn’t have the same intensity.

Frank’s relationship with Mars and how desperate he was to be claimed but now he doesn’t think he can live up to his father’s expectations.

Frank and his grandmother. We aren’t in Frank’s head as he changes shape till later.

Book 3: Mark of Athena The Quest: Close the Divide Between The Two Camps by finding Athena’s statue and Rescue Nico Narrator(s): Annabeth and Leo

Why Annabeth:

So I can have all the emotions at the reunion with Percy.

Annabeth’s relationship with her Mom has never been great, but imagine beginning the book with Annabeth being given the Mark of Athena. They haven’t left for New Rome yet and her nerves are already all over the place. Then Athena/Minerva comes, gives her an impossible quest, and breaks her hat. Annabeth wants to prove to her mother that she’s worthy because despite everything she still values her mother’s opinions. Also her fatal flaw of hubris makes her believe she will succeed where everyone else failed.

Much of the book already follows her in third person limited so we just get things with a little extra emotion.

Why Leo:

Leo has to grapple with the fact he started this war by being the one to fire the cannon even if he didn’t have any control. He is motivated to fix it

If we’re going to include the Sammy plot, we need to do it now. Leo doesn’t like being the odd one out on the ship but he certainly doesn’t like the feeling of being notable because of his grandfather.

We still need to get into those feelings of abandonment and anger at Gaea for killing his mom.

Nemesis

Leo comes into his own with the discovery of the Archimedes sphere and the decision to value people over objects.

What does telling the narrative like this sacrifice:

The aquarium shenanigans

The fight between Jason and Percy in Kansas needs to happen differently so that the others are present and try to stop it.

Neither of them went ashore to meet Hercules.

I think we might need to move up the Calypso meeting to this book, but that also kills some of the suspense since Frank will have the fireproof coating prior to his adventures in Venice when he gains faith in his abilities. It also might mean Leo opens the fortune cookie from Nemesis unless for some odd reason he doesn’t have it. There’s a lot more narrative weight for it coming later, but in order to get in as many book events as we can in, it might need to come earlier.

Book 4: House of Hades Pt. 1

The Quest: Survive Tartarus Narrator(s): Annabeth and Percy

The first time I read House of Hades, I read it out of order (reading all the Percy and Annabeth chapters until they were on the elevator out of Tartarus before going back and reading the others), because I couldn’t handle the back and forth. I felt like the tension would build, I’d be invested in this plot and then we’d switch to the other plot. Plus I was very concerned for my children. So I feel fully justified in saying that there is more than enough material to give the two of them their own book.

I just feel like all the feelings would be magnified.

Percy’s commentary slowly losing its humor because he can’t anymore.

Annabeth’s guilt at having pulled him in being extra loud.

Downsides beyond adding an entire book: Just imagine all the outrage at two cliffhangers in a row, because you know the book would end with them in the elevator remembering Bob’s words about the stars.

Book 5: House of Hades Pt. 2

The Quest: Close the Doors of Death Narrator(s): Frank and Hazel

Frank and Hazel experience the most growth on the quest to close the doors so this book is all theirs. Hazel learns to control the mist. Frank experiments with his transformations. I want nothing but them growing into themselves and their abilities.

The good thing about turning the two warring storylines from House of Hades into separate books is that we lose very little plot.

Book 6: House of Hades Pt. 3/Blood of Olympus Pt 1 (Personally I would call this one Ambassador of Pluto)

The Quest: Unite the Gods’ Personalities. Narrator: Nico

To clarify what I mean by HoH 3, I just mean anything done with the intention of trying to cross paths with Reyna, including the adventure with Cupid, in addition to the existing Nico&Reyna plotline in BoO.

Nico dealing with all the emotions and his most recent near-death experience.

He kept the secret of the camps so the world wouldn’t end in chaos, but now that the world is in chaos he will be the one to fix it.

In the short time he’s on the Argo 2, Nico realizes that even though this wasn’t his quest; this is his family and he needs to protect them.

The reader has a pretty good idea Nico is gay, even if the word isn’t explicitly said from the descriptions (his guilty Percy thoughts - he let down the man he loves even if he won’t admit it.) This means that Cupid’s forceful outing is potentially less surprising so the reader can be properly outraged at Cupid.

Downside: Reyna definitely has adventures when Nico is passed out, especially the whole waking up with the Hunters, but I think it’s excusable for a whole book from Nico’s perspective.

Also, the battle between the camps and gifting of the statue needs to happen in this book, but we shouldn’t find out if the gods have regained control of their forms yet. We alleviate some tensions because Camp Half-blood is likely to be overrun with Octavian’s monsters instead of the Roman armies and Gaea could awaken any second, but there’s an odd moment of calm and an uneasy truce. (Octavian is potentially taken under custody to be held for trial only to escape in the next book.)

Book 7: Blood of Olympus Pt 2 (and the aftermath)

The Quest: Like The Last Olympian, the final book’s focus is entirely on defeating the series’ big bad, in this case, Gaea. Leo’s quest for the Physician’s cure parallels Percy’s River Styx visit.

Narrator(s): Leo and Piper

Leo has his death hanging over his head. He has decided that he will be the one to die not any of his friends. He got the cloth from Calypso so the “fire” portion of the prophecy applies to him and not Frank. (Yes I know you can’t control prophecies, but do you think that’s going to stop Leo.)

It’s the ultimate revenge for killing his mom. We can have memories of both the happy times with Esperanza and the fear he felt for thinking he caused the fire.

Piper’s perspective is necessary as we need to be with her during the fight with the giants.

This series began with Piper, Leo, and Jason. It ends that way too with the three of them killing Gaea and the two of them narrating.

Downsides:

The Percabeth I love you-the feud is over scene remains in Piper’s perspective.

Since we’re not following Reyna’s delivery of the statue concurrently we don’t know when to anticipate the healed gods appearing in the battle with the giants.

The book can still get away with not showing us Percy’s reunion with Sally or forcing Leo to tell the others he’s alive so they’re all grieving.

#pjo meta #pjo fandom #pjo/hoo #hoo #riordanverse #heroes of olympus #my meta #percy jackon and the olympians #the seven #jason grace #hazel levesque #leo valdez #piper mclean #percy jackson #annabeth chase #frank zhang #the fandom once again improving hoo

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daenerys-targaryen-moved · 5 years

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Your opinion on book Dany?

Short story short: I love her

Long story short: under the cut

(p.s a lot of this was from @rainhadaenerys)

She is far superior than show!dany. i love book!dany so much more than I love show!dany, and that’s saying something because even then, I still adore show!dany. It has nothing to do with the performance of the character, Emilia truly did such a phenomenal and splendid job portraying Daenerys, it’s more how the tv show clearly and obviously changed her character to fit their narrative.

The show and the books are different when it comes to like... nearly everything. For Daenerys specifically, the made her cold, almost cruel. They made her irrational, they made her seem like she was teetering on the edge of madness. They removed the calm, rational, extremely intelligent and caring side of Daenerys. They started changing certain scenes for her character around season 2. I remember in 2.01 they had her say “When my dragons are grown we will take back what was stole from us, we will lay waste to our armies and burn cities to the ground. Turn us away, and we’ll burn you first.” which she literally never ever says in the books but ok. They also had Doreah BETRAY HER and then have daenerys KILL her. Which NEVER HAPPENED! Doreah died in the Red Waste, Daenerys giving her the last of the water they had and soothed her as she died.

Doreah took a fever and grew worse with every league they crossed. Her lips and hands broke with blood blisters, her hair came out in clumps, and one evenfall she lacked the strength to mount her horse. Jhogo said they must leave her or bind her to her saddle, but Dany remembered a night on the Dothraki sea, when the Lysene girl had taught her secrets so that Drogo might love her more. She gave Doreah water from her own skin, cooled her brow with a damp cloth, and held her hand until she died, shivering. Only then would she permit the khalasar to press on. - Daenerys I ACOK

They made her make irrational decisions, which she of course is capable of doing, she’s not perfect, but they had her male counselors around her calm her down and advise her against this and that when in the books! she is the one to tell them no to irrational plans and she’s the one to counsel them away from but whatever, men am I right? Dany doesn’t have “violent tendencies”, no more than any other characters. And the situation is quite the opposite: it’s Dany’s male advisors that keep telling her to be more violent and ruthless, and Dany is the one that controls them and holds them back. As an example, Jorah is a character that constantly tells Dany to be more dishonorable and ruthless, but Dany refuses:

“When Aegon the Dragon stepped ashore in Westeros, the kings of Vale and Rock and Reach did not rush to hand him their crowns. If you mean to sit his Iron Throne, you must win it as he did, with steel and dragonfire. And that will mean blood on your hands before the thing is done.”

Blood and fire, thought Dany. The words of House Targaryen. She had known them all her life. “The blood of my enemies I will shed gladly. The blood of innocents is another matter. Eight thousand Unsullied they would offer me. Eight thousand dead babes. Eight thousand strangled dogs.” - Daenerys II ASOS

Daario keeps telling her to be more violent:

“Then winkle them out of their pyramids on some pretext. A wedding might serve. Why not? Promise your hand to Hizdahr and all the Great Masters will come to see you married. When they gather in the Temple of the Graces, turn us loose upon them.”

Dany was appalled. He is a monster. A gallant monster, but a monster still. “Do you take me for the Butcher King?” - Daenerys IV ADWD

“You are fighting shadows when you should be fighting the men who cast them,” Daario went on. “Kill them all and take their treasures, I say. Whisper the command, and your Daario will make you a pile of their heads taller than this pyramid.”

“If I knew who they were—”

“Zhak and Pahl and Merreq. Them, and all the rest. The Great Masters. Who else would it be?”

He is as bold as he is bloody. “We have no proof this is their work. Would you have me slaughter my own subjects?” - Daenerys IV ADWD

Another of her male advisors, Skahaz, also tells her to be more violent:

“If he is not the Harpy, he knows him. I can find the truth of that easy enough. Give me your leave to put Hizdahr to the question, and I will bring you a confession.”

“No,” she said. “I do not trust these confessions. You’ve brought me too many of them, all of them worthless.”

“Your Radiance—”

“No, I said.” - Daenerys V ADWD

“Every man on that list has kin within the city. Sons and brothers, wives and daughters, mothers and fathers. Let my Brazen Beasts seize them. Their lives will win you back those ships.”

“If I send the Brazen Beasts into the pyramids, it will mean open war inside the city. I have to trust in Hizdahr. I have to hope for peace.” Dany held the parchment above a candle and watched the names go up in flame, while Skahaz glowered at her. - Daenerys V ADWD

Her sellswords want her to use her dragons, but Dany refuses:

Dany sighed. “I am sorry, Ben. I dare not loose the dragons.” - Daenerys V ADWD

And even though Tyrion and Dany haven’t met in the books, he is much more ruthless in the books than in the show:

The fact that there were any good wells at all within a day’s march of the city only went to prove that Daenerys Targaryen was still an innocent where siegecraft was concerned. She should have poisoned every well. Then all the Yunkishmen would be drinking from the river. See how long their siege lasts then. That was what his lord father would have done, Tyrion did not doubt. - Tyrion XI ADWD

She compensates her people for what they lost due to her dragons and treats them with kindness, even though her advisors suggest brutality:

“Three-and-twenty.” Dany sighed. “My dragons have developed a prodigious taste for mutton since we began to pay the shepherds for their kills. Have these claims been proven?”

“Some men have brought burnt bones.”

“Men make fires. Men cook mutton. Burnt bones prove nothing. Brown Ben says there are red wolves in the hills outside the city, and jackals and wild dogs. Must we pay good silver for every lamb that goes astray between Yunkai and the Skahazadhan?”

“No, Magnificence.” Reznak bowed. “Shall I send these rascals away, or will you want them scourged?”

Daenerys shifted on the bench. “No man should ever fear to come to me.” Some claims were false, she did not doubt, but more were genuine. […] “Pay them for the value of their animals,” she told Reznak, “but henceforth claimants must present themselves at the Temple of the Graces and swear a holy oath before the gods of Ghis.” - Daenerys I ADWD

The Shavepate had urged her to put the man to death. “At least rip out his tongue. This man’s lie could destroy us all, Magnificence.” Instead Dany chose to pay the blood price. No one could tell her the worth of a daughter, so she set it at one hundred times the worth of a lamb. “I would give Hazzea back to you if I could,” she told the father, “but some things are beyond the power of even a queen. Her bones shall be laid to rest in the Temple of the Graces, and a hundred candles shall burn day and night in her memory. Come back to me each year upon her nameday, and your other children shall not want … but this tale must never pass your lips again.” - Daenerys II ADWD

Daenerys is really really funny. Like she is SO funny. I remember she asked Barristan what a ruler should have and when he answered with “Wisdom and courage.” she replied with “cheeks of steel” basically saying her ass is sore from sitting on the bench slab for so long while seeing to her people.

"Ser Barristan," she called, "I know what quality a king needs most." "Courage, Your Grace?" "Cheeks like iron," she teased. "All I do is sit."

(it’s even better when you remember the next day her throne room is full of pillow) She’s genuinely funny and D&D actually wouldn’t let her play Daenerys in a funny way - proving that she knows the character better than they do lmao.

She’s is also a child, she’s 13 in the books [which they couldn’t really play into since they had to age up show!dany for obvious reasons] but she’s very playful. She’s constantly laughing, joking with her girls, just being goofy in the books as well. I remember once she threw a grape at Xaro in a playful manner when he told her to stop.

She’s also very in love with Daario, who I don’t really like but whatever, but she literally fantasizes about being common folk with him and not having the weight of the world on her shoulders.

What is it?” she cried, as Irri shook her gently by the shoulder. It was the black of night outside. Something is wrong, she knew at once. “Is it Daario? What’s happened?” In her dream they had been man and wife, simple folk who lived a simple life in a tall stone house with a red door. In her dream he had been kissing her all over—her mouth, her neck, her breasts.

She found herself thinking of Daario Naharis once again, Daario with his gold tooth and trident beard, his strong hands resting on the hilts of his matched arakh and stiletto, hilts wrought of gold in the shape of naked women. The day he took his leave of her, as she was bidding him farewell, he had brushed the balls of his thumbs lightly across them, back and forth. I am jealous of a sword hilt, she had realized, of women made of gold. Sending him to the Lamb Men had been wise. She was a queen, and Daario Naharis was not the stuff of kings.

She really just wants a simple life and someone to love her, but she understands that it’s her duty and her mission to help as many people as she can.

You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros. "It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

She’s also so very very affectionate to those she loves and even those who she’s not even close to. She kisses and hugs like literally everyone. She kisses Barristan, she kisses Daario, she kisses Jorah, she kisses she city people, she kisses Missandei, Irri and everyone else who is around her. She shows herself through affection and small acts of kindness.

The Lysene girl quailed, but Dany calmed her with a touch. “Don’t be afraid, he won’t hurt you. Sweet brother, please, forgive her, the girl misspoke herself, I told her to ask you to sup with me, if it pleases Your Grace.” - Daenerys IV AGOT

Distantly, as from far away, Dany heard her handmaid Jhiqui sobbing in fear, pleading that she dared not translate, that the khal would bind her and drag her behind his horse all the way up the Mother of Mountains. She put her arm around the girl. “Don’t be afraid,” she said. “I shall tell him.” - Daenerys V AGOT

When Doreah looked longingly at a fertility charm at a magician’s booth, Dany took that too and gave it to the handmaid, thinking that now she should find something for Irri and Jhiqui as well. - Daenerys VI AGOT

“Enough,” Daenerys said. “Prince Quentyn has crossed half the world to offer me his gift, I will not have him treated with discourtesy.” - Daenerys VII ADWD

Rhaegal roared in answer, and fire filled the pit, a spear of red and yellow. Viserion replied, his own flames gold and orange. When he flapped his wings, a cloud of grey ash filled the air. Broken chains clanked and clattered about his legs. Quentyn Martell jumped back a foot.

A crueler woman might have laughed at him, but Dany squeezed his hand and said, “They frighten me as well. There is no shame in that. My children have grown wild and angry in the dark.” - Daenerys VIII ADWD

When she returned to her rooms atop the pyramid, she found Missandei crying softly on her pallet, trying as best she could to muffle the sound of her sobs.

“Come sleep with me,” she told the little scribe. “Dawn will not come for hours yet.”

“Your Grace is kind to this one.” Missandei slipped under the sheets. “He was a good brother.”

Dany wrapped her arms about the girl. “Tell me of him.”

“He taught me how to climb a tree when we were little. He could catch fish with his hands. Once I found him sleeping in our garden with a hundred butterflies crawling over him. He looked so beautiful that morning, this one … I mean, I loved him.”

“As he loved you.” Dany stroked the girl’s hair. “Say the word, my sweet, and I will send you from this awful place. I will find a ship somehow and send you home. To Naath.”

She cares for her brother, even though he molested her, abused her and sold her.

Jhogo asks if you would have him dead, Khaleesi,” Irri said.

“No,” Dany replied. “No.”

Jhogo understood that. One of the others barked out a comment, and the Dothraki laughed. Irri told her, “Quaro thinks you should take an ear to teach him respect.”

[…]

“Tell them I do not wish him harmed,” Dany said. - Daenerys III AGOT

She tries to ask forgiveness for taking his horse by giving him new clothes so that he would be respected:

“New raiment. I had it made for you.” Dany smiled shyly.

He looked at her and sneered. “Dothraki rags. Do you presume to dress me now?”

“Please … you’ll be cooler and more comfortable, and I thought … maybe if you dressed like them, the Dothraki …” Dany did not know how to say it without waking his dragon. - Daenerys IV AGOT

“I saw His Grace this morning,” he told her. “He told me he was going to the Western Market, in search of wine.”

[…]

“Is that wise?” she asked. “He has no gold to pay soldiers. What if he’s betrayed?” Caravan guards were seldom troubled much by thoughts of honor, and the Usurper in King’s Landing would pay well for her brother’s head. “You ought to have gone with him, to keep him safe. You are his sworn sword.” - Daenerys V AGOT

She is willing to give Viserys her precious dragon eggs:

Dany had not known, had not even suspected. “Then … he should have them. He does not need to steal them. He had only to ask. He is my brother … and my true king.” - Daenerys V AGOT

And she tries to protect him again during the feast in Vaes Dothrak, even when he takes out his sword and threatens her and her unborn child:

A sense of dread closed around her heart. “Go to him,” she commanded Ser Jorah. “Stop him. Bring him here. Tell him he can have the dragon’s eggs if that is what he wants.” The knight rose swiftly to his feet. - Daenerys V AGOT“The blade … you must not,” she begged him. “Please, Viserys. It is forbidden. Put down the sword and come share my cushions. There’s drink, food … is it the dragon’s eggs you want? You can have them, only throw away the sword.” - Daenerys V AGOT

Daenerys most certainly has dragons blood in her. Her moments of anger are out of the hurting, suffering and death of others.

“Your servants have arrested the owner of the wineshop and his daughters. They plead their ignorance and beg for mercy.” They all plead ignorance and beg for mercy.

“Give them to the Shavepate. Skahaz, keep each apart from the others and put them to the question.”

“It will be done, Your Worship. Would you have me question them sweetly, or sharply?”

“Sweetly, to begin. Hear what tales they tell and what names they give you. It may be they had no part in this.” She hesitated.

“Nine, the noble Reznak said. Who else?”

“Three freedmen, murdered in their homes,” the Shavepate said.

“A moneylender, a cobbler, and the harpist Rylona Rhee. They cut her fingers off before they killed her.”

The queen flinched. Rylona Rhee had played the harp as sweetly as the Maiden. When she had been a slave in Yunkai, she had played for every highborn family in the city. In Meereen she had become a leader amongst the Yunkish freedmen, their voice in Dany’s councils.

“We have no captives but this wineseller?”

“None, this one grieves to confess. We beg your pardon.”

Mercy, thought Dany. They will have the dragon’s mercy. “Skahaz, I have changed my mind. Question the man sharply.”

“It was a cruel fate, Yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh.”― Daenerys ADWD

Dany even cares about her enemies. She is merciful to people that attack her:

When she told him, the boy rushed at her, but his feet tangled in his tokar and he went sprawling headlong on the purple marble. Strong Belwas was on him at once. The huge brown eunuch yanked him up one-handed and shook him like a mastiff with a rat. “Enough, Belwas,” Dany called. “Release him.” To the boy she said, “Treasure that tokar, for it saved your life. You are only a boy, so we will forget what happened here. You should do the same.” - Daenerys I ADWD

“We are all dead, then. You gave us death, not freedom.” Ghael leapt to his feet and spat into her face.

Strong Belwas seized him by the shoulder and slammed him down onto the marble so hard that Dany heard Ghael’s teeth crack. The Shavepate would have done worse, but she stopped him.

“Enough,” she said, dabbing at her cheek with the end of her tokar. “No one has ever died from spittle. Take him away.” – Daenerys III ADWD

She prompts time and time again that she has no slaves, and that those who follow are are free to leave her at any time.

“Your slave Missandei.” Jhiqui had a taper in her hand.

“My servant. I have no slaves.” – Daenerys ADWD

Dany fights against slavery. As soon as she gains any power, she starts freeing slaves:

“You will be my khalasar,” she told them. “I see the faces of slaves. I free you. Take off your collars. Go if you wish, no one shall harm you. […]” - Daenerys X ADWD

The first thing she does when Missandei is given to her is to set her free, and tell her that she can leave if she wishes:

"Missandei is no longer a slave. I free you, from this instant. Come ride with me in the litter, I wish to talk.” Rakharo helped them in, and Dany drew the curtains shut against the dust and heat. “If you stay with me you will serve as one of my handmaids,” she said as they set off. “I shall keep you by my side to speak for me as you spoke for Kraznys. But you may leave my service whenever you choose, if you have father or mother you would sooner return to.” - Daenerys III ASOS

And when Missandei’s brother dies, Dany comforts Missandei and offers to send her home again:

“As he loved you.” Dany stroked the girl’s hair. “Say the word, my sweet, and I will send you from this awful place. I will find a ship somehow and send you home. To Naath.” - Daenerys II ADWD

When Dany sees Astapor, she is deeply affected by the suffering of the slaves:

“Make way!” Jhogo shouted as he rode before her litter. “Make way for the Mother of Dragons!” But when he uncoiled the great silver-handled whip that Dany had given him, and made to crack it in the air, she leaned out and told him nay. “Not in this place, blood of my blood,” she said, in his own tongue. “These bricks have heard too much of the sound of whips.” - Daenerys II ASOS

He stopped before a thickset man who had the look of Lhazar about him and brought his whip up sharply, laying a line of blood across one copper cheek. The eunuch blinked, and stood there, bleeding. “Would you like another?” asked Kraznys.

“If it please your worship.”

It was hard to pretend not to understand. Dany laid a hand on Kraznys’s arm before he could raise the whip again. “Tell the Good Master that I see how strong his Unsullied are, and how bravely they suffer pain.” - Daenerys II ASOS

And she cares even about the lives of the masters and their children:

“More will die unless the murderers are punished.” […]

“How can I punish them when I do not know who they are?” Dany demanded of him. “Tell me that, bold Skahaz.” - Daenerys I ADWD

“Magnificence,” murmured Reznak mo Reznak, “we cannot know that these great nobles mean to join your enemies. More like they are simply making for their estates in the hills.”

“They will not mind us keeping their gold safe, then. There is nothing to buy in the hills.”

“They are afraid for their children,” Reznak said.

Yes, Daenerys thought, and so am I. “We must keep them safe as well. I will have two children from each of them. From the other pyramids as well. A boy and a girl.” - Daenerys II ADWD

Dany pushed her food about her plate. She dare not glance over to where Grazhar and Qezza stood, for fear that she might cry. The Shavepate has a harder heart than mine. They had fought about the hostages half a dozen times. “The Sons of the Harpy are laughing in their pyramids,” Skahaz said, just this morning. “What good are hostages if you will not take their heads?” In his eyes, she was only a weak woman. Hazzea was enough. What good is peace if it must be purchased with the blood of little children? “These murders are not their doing,” Dany told the Green Grace, feebly. “I am no butcher queen.” - Daenerys IV ADWD

“If he is not the Harpy, he knows him. I can find the truth of that easy enough. Give me your leave to put Hizdahr to the question, and I will bring you a confession.”

“No,” she said. “I do not trust these confessions. You’ve brought me too many of them, all of them worthless.”

“Your Radiance—”

“No, I said.” - Daenerys V ADWD

Dany studied the scroll. All the ruling families of Meereen were named: Hazkar, Merreq, Quazzar, Zhak, Rhazdar, Ghazeen, Pahl, even Reznak and Loraq. “What am I to do with a list of names?”

“Every man on that list has kin within the city. Sons and brothers, wives and daughters, mothers and fathers. Let my Brazen Beasts seize them. Their lives will win you back those ships.”

At the end of the day, in Daenerys’ core, she wants to help people who cannot help themselves. She wants to make sure what happened to her doesn’t happen to anyone else. She wants to end slavery because she knows what it feels like to be a slave and have no voice or choice in your life.

She’s constantly thinking about her people who need her.

“I fear no ghosts. Dragons are more powerful than ghosts.” And figs are more important. - Daenerys I ACOK

Dany gave him charge of a dozen of her strongest men, and set them to pulling up the plaza to get to the earth beneath. If devilgrass could grow between the paving stones, other grasses would grow when the stones were gone. They had wells enough, no lack of water. Given seed, they could make the plaza bloom. - Daenerys I ACOK

Inside Meereen the slavers would soon be reclining in their fringed tokars to feast on lamb and olives, unborn puppies, honeyed dormice and other such delicacies, whilst outside her children went hungry. A sudden wild anger filled her. I will bring you down, she swore. - Daenerys V ASOS

If Daario could convince the Lhazarene to reopen the overland trade routes, grains could be brought down the river or over the hills at need … but the Lamb Men had no reason to love Meereen. - Daenerys I ADWD

“Not a hole. A ditch, to bring water from the river to the fields. We mean to plant beans. The beanfields must have water.” - Daenerys III ADWD

“You spoke of help. Trade with me, then. Meereen has salt to sell, and wine …” - Daenerys

Ser Barristan remained. “Our stores are ample for the moment,” he reminded her, “and Your Grace has planted beans and grapes and wheat. Your Dothraki have harried the slavers from the hills and struck the shackles from their slaves. They are planting too, and will be bringing their crops to Meereen to market. And you will have the friendship of Lhazar.” - Daenerys V ADWD

What kind of mother has no milk to feed her children? - Daenerys VI ADWD

And even when Dany is starving and sick in the Dothraki sea, she’s still trying to return to her people to take care of them:

It was time, though. A girl might spend her life at play, but she was a woman grown, a queen, a wife, a mother to thousands. Her children had need of her. - Daenerys X ADWD

She’s willing to put her life on the line to help others. In the books when a sickness comparable to the plague hits her city, bitch goes out into the streets of Mereen and fucking BATHES the sick while Barristan and one of her Unsullied tell her repeatedly that they should leave.

Dany walked right past him. There was an old man on the ground a few feet away, moaning and staring up at the grey belly of the clouds. She knelt beside him, wrinkling her nose at the smell, and pushed back his dirty grey hair to feel his brow. “His flesh is on fire. I need water to bathe him. Seawater will serve. Marselen, will you fetch some for me? I need oil as well, for the pyre. Who will help me burn the dead?”

By the time Aggo returned with Grey Worm and fifty of the Unsullied loping behind his horse, Dany had shamed all of them into helping her. – Daenerys VI ADWD

She wants to keep her people safe.

Safe. The word made Dany’s eyes fill up with tears. “I want to keep you safe.” Missandei was only a child. With her, she felt as if she could be a child too. “No one ever kept me safe when I was little. Well, Ser Willem did, but then he died, and Viserys … I want to protect you but … it is so hard. To be strong. I don’t always know what I should do. I must know, though. I am all they have. I am the queen … the … the …” - Daenerys II ADWD

Gods, she prayed, you took Khal Drogo, who was my sun-and-stars. You took our valiant son before he drew a breath. You have had your blood of me. Help me now, I pray you. Give me the wisdom to see the path ahead and the strength to do what I must to keep my children safe. - Daenerys V ADWD

“If battle is joined, let Grey Worm show wisdom as well as valor,” Dany told him. “Spare any slave who runs or throws down his weapon. The fewer slain, the more remain to join us after.” - Daenerys IV ASOS

She refuses to turn her back on people in need.

“It shall be done, Magnificence,” said Reznak mo Reznak. “What of these Astapori?”

My children. “They are coming here for help. For succor and protection. We cannot turn our backs on them.” - Daenerys V ADWD

“Mouths on feet. And sick, you say?” Reznak wrung his hands. “Your Worship must not allow them in the city.”

“I wouldn’t,” said Brown Ben Plumm. “I’m no maester, mind you, but I know you got to keep the bad apples from the good.”

“These are not apples, Ben,” said Dany. “These are men and women, sick and hungry and afraid.” My children. - Daenerys V ADWD

Even feeding them had grown difficult. Every day she sent them what she could, but every day there were more of them and less food to give them. It was growing harder to find drivers willing to deliver the food as well. Too many of the men they had sent into the camp had been stricken by the flux themselves. Others had been attacked on the way back to the city. Yesterday a wagon had been overturned and two of her soldiers killed, so today the queen had determined that she would bring the food herself. Every one of her advisors had argued fervently against it, from Reznak and the Shavepate to Ser Barristan, but Daenerys would not be moved. “I will not turn away from them,” she said stubbornly. “A queen must know the sufferings of her people.” - Daenerys VI ADWD

She had tried to do what she could for them. She had sent them healers, Blue Graces and spell-singers and barber-surgeons, but some of those had sickened as well, and none of their arts had slowed the galloping progression of the flux that had come on the pale mare. – Daenerys VI ADWD

Many shat where they slept now, too feeble to crawl to the ditches she’d commanded them to dig. – Daenerys VI ADWD

“They are too feeble,” said Symon Stripeback.

Dany said, “More food might make them stronger.”

Symon shook his head. “Food should not be wasted on the dying, Your Worship. We do not have enough to feed the living.”

He was not wrong, she knew, but that did not make the words any easier to hear. “This is far enough,” the queen decided. “We’ll feed them here.” – Daenerys VI ADWD

Her wish for peace comes from not wanting to see bloodshed, from wanting to protect her people, and from thinking of all the people she failed to save:

Much of the talk about the table was of the matches to be fought upon the morrow. […] No queen has clean hands, Dany told herself. She thought of Doreah, of Quaro, of Eroeh … of a little girl she had never met, whose name had been Hazzea. Better a few should die in the pit than thousands at the gates. This is the price of peace, I pay it willingly. If I look back, I am lost. - Daenerys VIII ADWD

When she sees injustice, she puts a stop to it immediately. She saves Tyrion and Penny while others simply saw them as disposable people there to die for their entertainment:

Dany was not pleased. “I forbid it.”

“Gentle queen. You do not want to disappoint your people.”

“You swore to me that the fighters would be grown men who had freely consented to risk their lives for gold and honor. These dwarfs did not consent to battle lions with wooden swords. You will stop it. Now.” - Daenerys IX ADWD

She has a wonderful military mind as well. She shows off her intelligence especially when she sacks one of the cities from the inside out, something I think they let Daario have because once again, Men. But anyways, she’s really smart and so intelligent.

Dany cares about the lives of the Unsullied when no one else does. When Daario suggests that the Unsullied should attack the walls of Meereen under boiling oil because they feel no pain, Dany refuses, and tries to suggest a plan to avoid bloodshed.

Dany sighed. “I will not throw away Unsullied lives, Grey Worm. Perhaps we can starve the city out.” - Daenerys V ASOS

“A queen must listen to all,” she reminded him. “The highborn and the low, the strong and the weak, the noble and the venal. One voice may speak you false, but in many there is always truth to be found.” – Daenerys I ASOS

Dany insists on not turning away from the horrors in her way, and insists on personally seeing them. When the masters of Meereen crucify the children, Dany cares about them, and insists that she must see them:

Leading her van, Daario had given orders for the children to be taken down before Dany had to see them, but she had countermanded him as soon as she was told. “I will see them,” she said. “I will see every one, and count them, and look upon their faces. And I will remember.” - Daenerys V ASOS

When one of her soldiers is killed by the Sons of the Harpy, Dany cares, and insists that she must see him:

“Your Grace,” said Ser Barristan Selmy, the lord commander of her Queensguard, “there is no need for you to see this.”“He died for me.” - Daenerys I ADWD

Daenerys is very self sacrificial.

Dany is someone who is constantly ready to sacrifice herself for others. She is willing to stand up for other people and take risks to protect others from the very beginning, even before she becomes queen in her own right, before she her own power.

When Drogo attacks the Lhazareen, and Dany sees the horrors of war and what Drogo is doing to take the Iron Throne for their son, Dany stands up for the Lhazareen women, stopping the rape, and earning the enmity of Drogo’s men. She risks her life by going against them (and later, after Dany keeps defying them and defying taboos, they do try to kill her):

When she was done, Drogo was frowning. “This is the way of war. These women are our slaves now, to do with as we please.”

“It pleases me to hold them safe,” Dany said, wondering if she had dared too much. “If your warriors would mount these women, let them take them gently and keep them for wives. Give them places in the khalasar and let them bear you sons.” - Daenerys VII AGOT

“No,” Dany said. “I will not have her harmed.”

Qotho’s lips skinned back from his crooked brown teeth in a terrible mockery of a smile. “No? You say me no? Better you should pray that we do not stake you out beside your maegi. You did this, as much as the other.” - Daenerys VIII AGOT

When Drogo becomes sick, even though Dany is afraid, she tells herself that she would sacrifice herself for him:

“Death?” Dany wrapped her arms around herself protectively, rocked back and forth on her heels. “My death?” She told herself she would die for him, if she must. She was the blood of the dragon, she would not be afraid. Her brother Rhaegar had died for the woman he loved. - Daenerys VIII AGOT

When Dany is travelling through the Red Waste with her people, she doesn’t claim any privileges, and goes hungry and thirsty with her people:

Dany hungered and thirsted with the rest of them. The milk in her breasts dried up, her nipples cracked and bled, and the flesh fell away from her day by day until she was lean and hard as a stick, yet it was her dragons she feared for. -Daenerys I ACOK

Once again, Dany puts her life in danger to help people, this time to free slaves, even though Dany is afraid (if her plan didn’t work, she and her people would have died):

If I look back I am lost, Dany told herself the next morning as she entered Astapor through the harbor gates. She dared not remind herself how small and insignificant her following truly was, or she would lose all courage. - Daenerys III ASOS

When Dany frees the slaves in Astapor, she lets them follow her, even though they are more of a burden:

The raggle-taggle host of freedmen dwarfed her own, but they were more burden than benefit. Perhaps one in a hundred had a donkey, a camel, or an ox; most carried weapons looted from some slaver’s armory, but only one in ten was strong enough to fight, and none was trained. They ate the land bare as they passed, like locusts in sandals. Yet Dany could not bring herself to abandon them as Ser Jorah and her bloodriders urged. I told them they were free. I cannot tell them now they are not free to join me. She gazed at the smoke rising from their cookfires and swallowed a sigh. She might have the best footsoldiers in the world, but she also had the worst. - Daenerys IV ASOS

Even though Dany wants to sail to Westeros, Dany constantly chooses to sacrifice her goals in order to stay in Slaver’s Bay and take care of her people:

“There is nothing to stay for,” said Brown Ben Plumm.

“Your Grace, the slavers brought their doom on themselves,” said Daario Naharis.

“You have brought freedom as well,” Missandei pointed out.

“Freedom to starve?” asked Dany sharply. “Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?” Am I mad? Do I have the taint?

“A dragon,” Ser Barristan said with certainty. “Meereen is not Westeros, Your Grace.”

“But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city?” He had no answer to that. Dany turned away from them, to gaze out over the city once again. “My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings. And I need the same. I will not let this city go the way of Astapor. I will not let the harpy of Yunkai chain up those I’ve freed all over again.” She turned back to look at their faces. “I will not march.”

“What will you do then, Khaleesi?” asked Rakharo.

“Stay,” she said. “Rule. And be a queen.” - Daenerys VI ASOS

When Xaro offers her ships to go to Westeros, Dany refuses again:

“Enough.” Dany slapped the table. “No one will be left to die. You are all my people.” Her dreams of home and love had blinded her. “I will not abandon Meereen to the fate of Astapor. It grieves me to say so, but Westeros must wait.” - Daenerys III ADWD

Dany agrees to marry a man she hates and sacrifices her happiness for the sake of her people:

… but Daenerys Targaryen had other children, tens of thousands who had hailed her as their mother when she broke their chains. She thought of Stalwart Shield, of Missandei’s brother, of the woman Rylona Rhee, who had played the harp so beautifully. No marriage would ever bring them back to life, but if a husband could help end the slaughter, then she owed it to her dead to marry. - Daenerys IV ADWD

“It is not,” she agreed, “but it is important to me that you should understand. My people are bleeding. Dying. A queen belongs not to herself, but to the realm. Marriage or carnage, those are my choices. A wedding or a war.” - Daenerys IV ADWD

When Dany is offered yet another choice to go to Westeros, and this time with a powerful alliance with Dorne, Dany sacrifices this for her people and still decides to marry Hizdahr:

“It would please me if he had turned up with these fifty thousand swords he speaks of. Instead he brings two knights and a parchment. Will a parchment shield my people from the Yunkai'i? If he had come with a fleet …”

“Sunspear has never been a sea power, Your Grace.”

“No.” Dany knew enough of Westerosi history to know that. Nymeria had landed ten thousand ships upon Dorne’s sandy shores, but when she wed her Dornish prince she had burned them all and turned her back upon the sea forever. “Dorne is too far away. To please this prince, I would need to abandon all my people. You should send him home.” - Daenerys VIII ADWD

And when Dany marries Hizdahr and has her wedding night with him, we see just how much she is sacrificing her happiness:

Dany flinched. “Who is there?”

“Only Missandei.” The Naathi scribe moved closer to the bed. “This one heard you crying.”

“Crying? I was not crying. Why would I cry? I have my peace, I have my king, I have everything a queen might wish for. You had a bad dream, that was all.” – Daenerys VIII ADWD

This willingness to self sacrifice that Dany has is tied not only to the fact that she cares about people, but also to the fact that she sees taking care of her people and protecting them as her duty as queen. We can see, in several moments, how Dany is both self-sacrificing and dutiful, and how she is constantly being self critical and reminding herself of her duties as a queen:

“I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn’t have done that. He wasn’t just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?”

“Some kings make themselves. Robert did.”

“He was no true king,” Dany said scornfully. “He did no justice. Justice … that’s what kings are for.” - Daenerys III ASOS

Dany would gladly have sent the rest of the petitioners away … but she was still their queen, so she heard them out and did her best to give them justice. - Daenerys III ADWD

“Your Grace could not have known—”

“I am the queen. It was my place to know.” - Daenerys V ADWD

A queen belongs not to herself but to her people. - Daenerys V ADWD

“A queen must know the sufferings of her people.” - Daenerys VI ADWD

She would rather have drifted in the fragrant pool all day, eating iced fruit off silver trays and dreaming of a house with a red door, but a queen belongs to her people, not to herself. - Daenerys IX ADWD

It was time, though. A girl might spend her life at play, but she was a woman grown, a queen, a wife, a mother to thousands. Her children had need of her. Drogon had bent before the whip, and so must she. She had to don her crown again and return to her ebon bench and the arms of her noble husband. - Daenerys X ADWD

So yeah. I probably forgot something but... I really truly with everything inside me love the fuck out of her.

it’s time for a sleepover!

#leah has mail #daenerys targaryen #asoiaf meta #asoiaf #meta #why i love daenerys

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jeanandthedreamofhorses · 5 years

Text

Eren the Free, Part 2: Response to linkspooky’s ‘Eren the Slave’

Continuing from where we left off:

Blind Hatred of the Enemy

This point I have already covered both in my attached meta and in my argument against ‘lip service’. Eren proves in his conversation with Reiner that there is no longer anything blind about his hatred - he only uses it when it is useful to him, as when he manipulated Grisha and as when he distanced himself from Mikasa and Armin.

Self-Loathing

linkspooky claims that Eren is acting out of self-loathing for his own weakness and means to throw his life away for the sake of proving himself. This self-loathing is also something he began to overcome in the Uprising Arc.

Isayama said in an interview that Historia inspired Eren to escape from that depressive state, and we can see the first signs of it in the same chapter.

In the Final Arc, Eren has so much self-confidence and love for himself that he is willing to fight against the entire World for the sake of his own desires, brushing aside their hatred and choosing to live for himself.

This is why he is diametrically opposed to Zeke, who does hate himself and wishes he was never born, and out of that self-hatred wants to ensure that none of his kind are ever born again. Eren, on the other hand, proudly states “Because I was born into this world” as an affirmation of his right to exist and to fight for his freedom.

Eren is willing to endanger himself not because he doesn’t care whether he lives or dies, but because he knows for certain that he will soon die as a result of Ymir’s Curse. That is what separates the value of the lives of his friends from the value of his own life; even in Armin’s case he still has much longer left than Eren. As I explain in my attached meta, I find that Eren is using his final years in such a dramatic way precisely because he does believe in the value of his existence.

Fighting with No Release

linkspooky claims that Eren does not want freedom, but perpetual fighting. I think my attached meta should clarify why I believe perpetual fighting to be the very nature of freedom, but even then, if Eren’s aim is truly the destruction of the outside world, wouldn’t that put the conflict between humans and Eldians to a permanent end?

They also make the claim that in killing the Reiss family, Grisha does not manage to save Carla or even Eren, as he manipulates him into a cursed future. However, Grisha does not kill the Reiss family for those reasons. He is unable to do it.

The reason he ultimately makes the choice is not for anyone else but because it is the course of his own Will. It is the story he started.

Another of his motivations, secondary but still relevant, is fighting to make the deaths of the past mean something by fulfilling the future Eren showed him.

linkspooky argues that death is just an experience of meaningless losses, which must be accepted as meaningless. However, I find that this conflicts with one of the most inspiring and heartfelt moments of the manga: Erwin’s final speech before his death.

The framing of this speech in such a moving and powerful manner is, to me, a clear indicator of authorial Narrative. Yes, people’s deaths are in themselves meaningless, which is why it is the task of the living to give them meaning – why we have to, as both Hange and Eren have said, keep moving forward, not to forget them and leave them be.

The claim that it was Grisha who manipulated his son is also problematised by this latest chapter. From his interactions with the Future Eren and the visions he showed to him, Grisha clearly knew that being titanised was Eren’s own desire.

linkspooky also brings up Eren’s killing of civilians to show he is not really fighting the World, but fighting for the sake of fighting. This ignores the fact that he also killed the ambassadors of almost every nation on the planet, who are surely representative of the World more than any other. This even extends to the leader of his own nation, though inadvertently, when Zackly is killed by the Jaegerists.

Furthermore, civilians, though innocent, are still part of the World and are not exempt from that fight. Despite what the meta suggests about Eren’s Personal Narrative, those who propose World-destroying never try to pass it off as a noble thing.

Forgetting Lessons

linkspooky claims that Eren remains stagnant because he forgets the lessons he learns. They use as their evidence Eren brushing off Mikasa after she tells him she’s grateful to him for wrapping his scarf around her. They claim that he does this because he does not accept the worth of his kindness and insists on fighting instead.

Tone is a tricky thing, but I do think the tone of this scene is widely agreed upon to be a heartwarming one. I don’t think anyone was angry at Eren during this scene or thought he didn’t value Mikasa’s words. The strength of the tone suggests authorial Narrative to me, which makes it very hard to see this moment as something negative.

The claim that Eren doesn’t listen to her because he brushes her aside is directly contradicted by the next panel, where Eren repeats her words and shows how they have resonated with him. I find the forcefulness of Eren’s shaking off to just be the forcefulness of his feelings.

Moreover, can anyone argue that Eren did the wrong thing here? Had he decided to renounce violence instead of punching Dina, he, Mikasa, and the entirety of the Survey Corps would have been devoured on the spot. linkspooky appears to argue that violence is incompatible with kindness, but Eren is now protecting Mikasa with violence precisely because of his kindness.

The meta claims that Eren telling Mikasa he’s always hated her proves that he forgot the lesson he learned here, but both I and linkspooky agree that Eren is lying in that scene to put her at a safe distance. If they mean to argue that Eren is neglecting his kindness for the sake of fighting, I restate my argument that he is fighting out of that kindness.

linkspooky also makes the claim that Eren forgot the lesson he learned from Armin’s death, which was that Armin was worth more than him because he pursued freedom instead of just clinging onto his hatred. I think I have already sufficiently argued that Eren has developed past blind hatred and now fights for genuine freedom.

Armin’s Reason for Self-Sacrifice

The meta claims that Armin sacrificed himself out of a sense of inadequacy and a need to prove himself. This, I find, is an insecurity Armin overcame in Chapter 11, where Eren and Mikasa tell him his worth up front.

My understanding of Armin’s sacrifice is that he was acting in accordance with his doctrine that those who cannot sacrifice anything can never hope to gain anything.

Historia Representing What Eren Thinks He Wants and Mikasa Representing What He Really Wants

It is unfortunate that the phrasing makes this sound like a rather immature ship war comment, but I’ll assume that ‘Historia’ here means ‘Eren’s vision of the future as represented by Historia’s hand’.

Even then, to argue that a deliberate contrast is drawn between these images is, I think, lacking in evidence. Had Isayama wanted to do that, he surely would have juxtaposed these images against each other. But instead there is an ample amount of space between them.

As for the nature of the scarf scene, for that I have already given my interpretation in the previous part.

Eren and Zeke’s Bonds

linkspooky argues that the difference between Zeke and Eren is that while Zeke values the connections he doesn’t have, Eren doesn’t value the connections he does have. I think the first half is very insightful, but I strongly disagree with the second. Rather I think the difference between them is more simply that Eren does value the connections which he does have.

Because I believe he is fighting to defend those loved ones, I could never make the claim that he does not appreciate them. Those bonds are so important to him that he is willing to trash them in order to preserve them. While that may seem paradoxical, it reminds me of this line from Bakemonogatari:

“I care about my debt to you more than our friendship”.

linkspooky’s argument, however, is that while Eren wants to defend his friends, it’s entirely in a selfish capacity and he does not think of them as free human agents, as he never allows their words to get through to him.

I’ve argued in my attached meta about how one can only ever really look out for one’s own freedom, but in the first place, I think the argument that Eren never listens to anyone else or allows them to reach him is factually incorrect. He listened to Historia, as proven in Isayama’s interview. He listened to Petra in taking her advice to rely on his comrades, and only changed his mind based on the consequences.

Annie reached him by shaking his black-and-white conception of the world and making him want to understand his enemies for the first time. Reiner reached him as a kindred spirit which he recognised in Chapter 100.

He listened to Shadis:

And his newfound emphasis of being ‘born into this world’ suggests he listened to Carla through him as well.

But for the sake of argument, let’s suppose that Eren doesn’t treat his loved ones like people. How does prioritising his desires over his friends make him ‘weak’, as linkspooky claims? I understand how fear of losing them might make him so, but it seems that selfishness is being argued as a form of weakness in this meta as well.

Throughout the ages there have been many attempts to conflate the Strong/Weak system of values with the system of Good/Evil, but I think all of us understand on an instinctual level that ‘strength’ is nothing more than a measure of power – a single unarmed titan is undoubtedly stronger than a single unarmed human. Yielding your own Will to the Will of others is surely an indication of submission rather than strength, no matter how moral it may be. Power can only be found in the pursuit of one’s own Will to Power.

Eren failed to save his mother because he wasn’t strong enough. Lying down and accepting the death or enslavement of his loved ones would be every inch as weak.

So then, let us continue to suppose that Eren does not appreciate his connections. If this is true, Zeke is in no ways different. He does not unconditionally value the connections he doesn’t have: he hated Grisha precisely because his love for him was highly conditional.

The same is true of Zeke’s love for Eren. Zeke is not treating Eren as a free individual despite his disagreements as the meta claims - he is keeping Eren trapped in the Path Dimension until he comes around to his point of view. The claim that he cannot bring himself to manipulate Eren is also untrue, because if that were the case he would have told Eren that the one with royal blood is the one who commands Ymir-Sama – but he didn’t, because he was manipulating him.

It is true that Zeke could have activated the euthanasia immediately, but he has no need to in a place of infinite time. His determination to convince Eren beforehand just illustrates his manipulative nature even further, as he cannot tolerate disagreement in his loved ones.

He talks of ‘healing’ and ‘saving’ Eren, as though he were a lost lamb in need of enlightenment rather than an individual of opposing desires. His only explanation for their differences is that Eren has been brainwashed. When Zeke finds out that Eren chose this path freely, his love is completely replaced by fear and he tries to activate the euthanasia without Eren’s consent.

There is nothing unconditional about Zeke’s love.

The meta also claims that Eren is showing Zeke his happy childhood in order to mock him. But that is not the case at all - Eren is largely silent for that portion of Grisha’s memories, only speaking up in an effort to cut it short. The only one making observations about Eren’s happy childhood is Zeke.

linkspooky considers the above panel to be Eren mocking Zeke, but I find it to just be Eren laying down in no uncertain terms that he’s not the willess child everyone keeps assuming him to be, that he does have a will of his own and he does act on it.

The Meaning of Carla’s Words

linkspooky claims that Eren is misinterpreting Carla’s words by feeling the need to prove that he is special despite already being special from being born into this world. It was precisely those words, however, that broke Eren out of that delusion – again, in the Uprising Arc.

The fact that Eren has become what-is-called-special regardless is an example of the loop that I describe in the attached meta. He is no longer fighting out of the need to be special (and this is perhaps what has made him truly special, as opposed to someone like Keith), but because, as he says, he was born into this world - and he wants to preserve the ability of Eldians to live the kind of ordinary lives Carla envisioned.

If Zeke has his way, no Eldian will ever be born into this world again. If Marley have their way, the Paradis Eldians will be wiped from the face of this world. The Survey Corps’ way would subject Historia to a life of enslavement, and, with the withdrawal of Hizuru’s aid, is no longer feasible. It is only Eren’s way which values their being born and allows Eldians to live free lives.

Kruger wants Grisha both to fight for Eldia and to live a loving family life. They are not mutually exclusive.

Eren’s Happy Childhood

The claim that Eren does not value others because he had a childhood where he was unconditionally loved omits everything that happened to him after he was ten years old, when his parents were brutally snatched from him, his neighbours were massacred and his hometown was destroyed.

He openly expresses regret over not having appreciated his mother enough, and, just as linkspooky argues, his powerlessness at her death was a major cause of insecurity. In the Crystal Cave he also believed that his father manipulated him into a terrible destiny. Eren is no stranger to parental issues either.

Freedom as the Freedom to Not Get What You Want

I find this claim directly contradicts the definition of freedom, which I go over in my attached meta, and thus renders it a meaningless term.

Symbolism of Eren in Chains

Eren does frequently wind up enchained or imprisoned, but the real value of the symbolism is the fact that Eren invariably escapes from his confinements. The chains depicted in linkspooky’s argument are broken by Eren in the very next chapter.

Rather than representing his enslavement, those broken chains demonstrate his successful struggle for freedom.

The Manga Is Calling for Him to be Stopped

Characters are calling for him to be stopped, because as argued in the attached meta, freedom is a terrifying thing. If we want to find the authorial Narrative, we should investigate it through symbolism, and it’s difficult to read Eren breaking his chains as an image of enslavement.

Well, in many, many words, I hope I’ve successfully explained my position. Well done for getting to the end! I do it for my boi Ereh.

#shingeki no kyojin #snk meta #eren jaeger #eren yeager #response meta #aot spoilers #snk spoilers

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hamliet · 5 years

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hey hamy what did you think of geten now that you saw there face?

Hey Anon!

So… Geten seems to be a hot-button topic in the fandom, so I’ll begin with a disclaimer that whatever follows will include a lot of disclaimers. I’m also going to presume that Dabi is Todoroki Touya. (At this point, if he isn’t, I think there’s no way to make that not bad writing, so we’re going to go with Occam’s Razor and presume he is.)

We know only a few things about Geten:

She is a villain with an ice quirk;

She has ideals about quirk supremacy that are hella yikes;

These ideals are reminiscent of Endeavor;

We don’t know her gender for certain but it’s pretty likely she’s a girl (hence my use of female pronouns for now);

She bears a resemblance to Todoroki Rei and has an ice quirk;

She had an emotionally charged fight with Dabi;

The Dabi-Geten fight was the only fight without an emotional (or physical, really) resolution in this arc.

From this we can make a few assumptions: firstly, her bearing the ideals of Dabi’s likely father (ideals that were used to abuse him), the looks of his mother, plus the lack of emotional or character growth closure in their fight (Toga, Twice, Spinner, Shigaraki all had that) means that Geten is probably going to provoke development in Dabi’s arc going forward. They might have a rematch; I don’t know. Your guess is as good as mine. The only thing we can say for certain is that the set-up with Geten is promising for Dabi focus and development.

Geten’s ideals are hella yikes, as I said above. They’re grotesque. However… Dabi has espoused these same ideals. That’s not entirely surprising, because Dabi is a character who has presumably been abused horrifically throughout his life for not being good enough, quirk-wise, for his father.

But it’s not uncommon for abuse victims to internalize these same ideas and, as much as they hate them, also act out as if these ideals are true when they aren’t. And we have seen this with Dabi.

I’m not saying inherently that we are to view Geten and Dabi as the same; by the time we saw this part of Dabi, he’d already saved Aoyama, had that weird encounter with Shouto, and overall been given much more depth than Geten has currently. Literally her beliefs are one of the few things we know about her. But I am saying that Geten might prove very useful narratively in challenging Dabi on these beliefs… asking him whether he really believes them or if it’s extremely harmful (it is), and if he doesn’t believe it, if he doesn’t want to exploit weaker quirks like Endeavor, then he needs to take steps to act like it. (whispers *eventual redemption*)

He also needs to open up more to his comrades and that will probably happen when he’s revealed as Todoroki Touya. Geten could theoretically provoke such a reveal eventually if she digs more into that sore spot. All of this is development for Dabi in some respects, development we should get sooner rather than later.

I’ve also seen speculation she’s Rei’s little sister, and while we can’t rule it out, I can say that I sincerely doubt it just as I doubted Geten was actually Natsuo. There’s no narrative gain to another character connected to the Todoroki family being a secret villain (if anything I think it’d take away from the narrative point of Todoroki Touya being Dabi), and I find it hard to believe someone who presumably loves Rei and has seen what Endeavor’s beliefs have done to Rei would remotely espouse the rhetoric Geten has.

As for the way the fandom is reacting to her… sigh. I do think female characters get held to a higher moral standard than male ones, but then again she’s not nearly so fleshed out as other villains and the first impression being a supremacist one isn’t really gonna win people over, so I totally get why people dislike her. I’m personally excited to see where she goes in the story, but there also isn’t much to like currently, so yeah.

As for shipping, I’ve seen a lot of people dislike the ship and express disgust that people are jumping to ship it, and that’s totally fine that they dislike it (there’s not much to ship right now). But as I said above, there’s a lot of potential for emotional development and worldview challenges for Dabi via Geten, so I also get why people see potential. Sure, some of it is probably heteronormative assumptions, but also… a female character poised to play a role in a male character’s development when the female character resembles his mother (very obviously in quirk and looks) is like a pattern in literature. It occurs frequently enough that it’s not surprising to me people are wondering about shipping (the so-called Oedipus Complex–saying nothing of its ickiness or whatever, simply commenting on where it comes from–comes from observing patterns in literature). I’m definitely not saying they’ll be a thing (I kind of like having a nonsexualized female character for once), but I am saying that I don’t think people hopping aboard the ship are drawing from nowhere. (I can also see Dabi defeating her in a rematch as a repudiation of both his parents, and this is currently where I’m interested to see it go, but I’m open to literally anything.)

#ask hamliet #bnha 240 #bnha meta #mha 240 #mha meta #dabi #todoroki touya #bnha theory #geten #apocrypha #discourse #Anonymous #geten x dabi

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lucytara · 6 years

Note

1/2 Hey I don't know if you have seen Eruptionfang's video about Bumblebee but I have question to you now that I saw it. I know people don't like him but I thought that video was not hateful and he explained himself well. But looking at the video and comments people are saying B&Y never got the same narrative development as B&S. And in someway I agree. Like B&S spend a lot of time outside of school together and obviously the two volumes as a whole. And I think we can admit Blake had a crush on

2/2Sun for a while. But I think they ignore the manga where we see B&Y relationship in school. In the animation we don’t see them as much interact like that but the manga makes it clear in my opinion that they have a close relationship and spend time together but it seems like a lot of people think contrary, as they have only seen the animation. But I don’t know seeing those comments made me doubt how much I watched it the way I wanted it. Do you think the narrative was there?

fair warning that this ended up turning into uhhhh…..a long post so welcome to rwby: a bumbleby vs black/sun narrative analysis

so i haven’t watched it, and in regards to it being not hateful, i think you first have to look at the intent behind it. first of all, it’s not his place to discuss this topic whatsoever. this story isn’t being written for him. it’s not being written for men. it doesn’t matter what y’all think about it, quite frankly, because it’s not for or about you: it’s about us, people who have never in history seen the kind of representation rwby is giving us with blake and yang. that’s something anyone who wants to “have an honest opinion about bumbleby” should think about. he didn’t. he ignored that, ignored the tons of wlw who love this portrayal and relationship. that tells me really everything i need to know about him as a person. the intent of his video is to bring people around to “his side” of things, his perspective, here’s why bumbleby was done wrong, b/s was done right, etc whatever. the intent behind him creating and posting this video is hateful. let’s be very clear about that.

the problem with people trying to claim that bumbleby came out of nowhere or that black/sun had a ton of now-pointless development is that their claims are almost always viewed through a heteronormative lens. they look at blake and sun on-screen together and they think it’s development. they think blake being visibly annoyed with sun for the entirety of volume 4 is romantic. they think his total lack of understanding her character but pushing her boundaries anyway is romantic. they think blake owes him her own feelings in return for his, just because he feels them. they think that because it’s a narrative that’s been popularized by media for literally…well…ever.

from a wlw perspective, for those of us who ship bumbleby, did not read sun and blake’s relationship as “development” in a romantic direction. i’ve always said that sun was a red herring. he appears - another faunus - at a time blake is desperately looking for someone to understand her. except he can’t! sun had a great life, so it seems! he thinks the white fang are nuts! he has nothing to do with any of the hardships blake has faced throughout her entire life. sun never understands her and he doesn’t, at any point, relate or empathize with her. he moves on very easily with his life after the incident with the white fang and torchwick. he tries to ask blake to the dance. she says the one line that lets us, the audience, know what she’d hoped from sun and wasn’t receiving: “i thought you of all people would understand that.” he doesn’t understand. but an episode or so later, someone does understand blake, and that person is yang.

this is really the Big “oh” moment for me. blake was looking for someone to understand her in sun, but she was looking in the wrong place. yang comes in unravels blake in the span of a single conversation. she understands blake perfectly, understands where she coming from and why, and most importantly, understands how to get her to stop. how to put things in perspective. burning the candle was honestly all the narrative we needed in regards to sun/yang/blake as a starting point. sun isn’t who blake wants him to be and this is where she’s started to realize that. this is where we, the audience, are also supposed to realize that.

sun and blake have then, what, one moment in v3? where he flirst with her in a stadium full of people and she blushes? sure, whatever. i’m not denying that on some level i think blake wanted to be interested in sun. i don’t really buy that she fully was, but i think she wanted to be. however, the last half of the volume, blake’s entire focus is on yang: yang, who she watches attack mercury, and rather than believing her immediately, finds herself shaken and reminded of adam. in this conversation, we’re told a couple of things: one, that yang and adam are parallels. blake is comparing them herself. the implication is that yang is also someone very dear to blake, and blake’s afraid of the same thing happening. but she ultimately believes yang when yang looks her in the eye.

then - a quick telling moment - blake’s eyes narrowing when hearing cinder describe yang attacking an innocent student. she immediately realizes yang was set up, and she was wrong to not believe her. this is important because imo this weighs on blake from the finale onward.

if we use some critical thinking skills, we can infer that blake and yang have spent quite a lot of time together up until the v3 finale. they’re literally partners, teammates. they share the same dorms. they’re together almost all the time, for - what - like 9 months or so? we can imagine they know each other pretty well. blake picked her to begin with. they’re close; we don’t have to know every single detail, especially considering the format rwby is presented in.

v3 finale - yang finds weiss, who tells her ruby’s still missing and so is blake. sun? also right there. doesn’t go look for her. yang makes the decision to prioritize blake and goes after her. we all know what happens now - adam takes one look at blake’s face and to yang and knows she’s someone blake loves. yang loses an arm and almost dies trying to protect her, blake almost dies trying to protect her immediately after. blake holds her hand and tells her she’s sorry while sun looks on at their joined hands.

like, there’s the narrative set-up. all of it. it’s right there. yang/adam are paralleled and yang immediately loses to him. he gives them both scars that link them together forever. they’re never going to be able to take that night back. they’re bound by it. they have the literal. scars. to prove it. and sun plays no role in it. people who ignore this in favor of the very surface-level development bs get are doing extreme disservices to the characters and the show itself.

i came in at the end of v3. i was elated all throughout volume 4 because blake literally was not interested in him, she wasn’t interested in his advances, and her heart was clearly elsewhere. she spent all of volume 4 upset that sun had followed her. she even has one last-ditch moment on the ship - where sun says “i knew exactly what you were doing” and she perks up for a moment before he hits the final nail in the coffin and completely misinterprets why she ran. like, that’s the end for bs romantically, right there. when sun still proves after all this time and everything that’s happened, he fundamentally doesn’t understand blake.

they had zero romantic interactions all throughout volumes 4 and 5. what they did have? friendship development. blake and sun essentially started over their entire relationship with blake finally in the right mindset to process it. she didn’t like sun, she never really liked sun, they’re incompatible and now she really sees that. so they work their way to a friendship, which is exactly what myself and most people in the bb fandom saw. blake wasn’t interested. it doesn’t matter how much sun was. both people need to be equally invested or a relationship is nothing. blake wasn’t interested. there is no way to retcon that or get around it. she doesn’t like sun romantically. she makes it explicitly clear, and i don’t respect anyone who chooses to ignore that. heteronormativity in media has taught us forever that what a girl wants/how she feels doesn’t matter as much as what the boy does, that perseverance is key, but that’s a fucked up narrative and i’m happy to see it subverted here.

anyway. during this period of time that blake and yang are apart, they’re constantly on each others’ minds. blake voices it once or twice; yang snaps one time and breaks down about it. we can infer that what hurt yang the most wasn’t losing her arm, it was that blake ran. yang wanted to be there for her. yang carries a photo of her around, so worn in the middle that it bend automatically, used to being grasped on blake’s side of the frame. these are details meant to imply certain things. yang misses blake and thinks about her more than she ever dares to say it aloud.

all of this builds both to them reuniting and volume 6. weirdly enough (not), a majority of the fandom predicted blake and yang’s dynamic this volume. we predicted exactly how blake would act, how yang would reciprocate. we predicted this accurately because we understand exactly the story crwby is telling and how it plays out. we knew blake and yang spent however long apart thinking about each other. we knew blake felt enormously guilty and sorry and regretted ever running in the first place, and we knew she’d promise yang she’d never do it again. (this was slightly more split, but) plenty of people predicted yang would forgive her instantly, because all yang wanted was to be by her side. we knew this because this story is being told to us and for us.

sun says it himself: it was never about romance where he and blake are concerned. she’s with who she’s supposed to be with now, and it’s not him. the show told us all of this.

someone’s inability to view a narrative through a different perspective than their own skewed one does not make it a bad narrative. rwby has done exactly what it’s intended to do with blake & yang, and if all of us - as our fandom is mostly comprised of wlw - could pick up on that perfectly, then the narrative is not the problem. the problem is the homophobic/heteronormative lens with which you are viewing the show through.

#bumbleby

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taki118 · 5 years

Text

Fenabela the looked over ship (a DA2 meta)

~~slight TW: mentions of abuse~~

Fenabela is one of those things often pushed to the side in the Dragon Age fandom, I find. Despite being a cannon ship there aren’t many fics or art dedicated to the pair. This is especially noted when compared to Adoribull (and the fact that the personalities of Dorian and Bull parallel Fenris and Isabela)

Now part of this is of course taste, most people having dubbed Isabela their wife or Fenris their husband and disliking pairing them with anyone other than Hawke or shipping with other npcs. To each their own I realize not everyone can multiship.

However I have noted a few general misconceptions or certain readings that get passed around and a few critics on the narrative that really need to addressed.

And I will display and counter these things here so strap in. (Obligatory sex joke)

Before that I want to state it is not my intention to tell anyone what they can and can’t ship. However I have found a good deal of unwarranted hate towards this ship and wish to defend it and explain why one might ship it. I do greatly enjoy this pair but I will do my best to remain objective.

I don’t like the characters

Of course if you don’t like characters involved in a ship you won’t like it. But Fenris and Isabela are often misunderstood or misread so I’ll go over some things for each quickly.

Fenris

Generally speaking Fenris is the fan favorite of DA2 (and I think a surprise one to the BioWare crew as I’m fairly certain they thought Anders would be the most popular).

However if you aren’t a fan of the broody archetype you likely won’t like him at least for half the game, towards the end he grows to be more relaxed and open.

Another general issue with him is his hatred of mages and support of the Chantry. While his feelings are understandable it can get grating. But again this softens as the game goes on if you weren’t an ass to him by the end he is willing to put his own issues to the back to protect mages and even stating he respects Mage Hawke or Bethany indicating mages who prove themselves to be humble and strong willed are able to earn his trust.

Isabela

Now Isabela is, at least I’ve found to be, one of the more polarizing and misunderstood characters in Dragon Age, and as such I’ll do a more in-depth meta on her at a later date. But here are some common things noted in regards to this ship.

People often think Isabela is a selfish bitch who doesn’t care about anyone but herself. However this is only if you don’t learn about her. The best quote I can give is from Act 3 between her and Anders.

Anders: I always knew you had a heart of gold

Isabela: shush don’t tell anyone.

Isabela has lived a life where she was shown that no good deed goes unpunished and as such tries to hide this aspect of herself. You gotta remember the whole reason she did the Qunari job is because she couldn’t go through with bringing slaves to Tevinter and was forced to steal the tome as compensation.

It wasn’t built up/rushed

Now I can’t be certain on this as I obviously don’t work for BioWare but it should be noted that:

1- this was the first time BioWare had a Love Interest romance and likely wasn’t sure about how much they should do. The next one was Talibrations in Mass Effect 3 that had around the same level build up followed by Adoribull that was given more time to develop naturally.

2- It seems like they wanted to do more but with the notorious 2 year time crunch by EA couldn’t. You can see this in the purposely added dialogue for them in dlc

Of course I am only guessing here but given this it sort of makes sense why it is the way it is. they were likely trying to find a balance between believable and non intrusive that was later utilized better in DAI but you gotta start somewhere.

Fenris doesn’t like Isabela or her flirting

I just um ok this is just so wrong I’m sorry I’m trying to be objective and shit but like come on.

So I know the line most go to, to prove this it’s

Fenris: From what I gather, you like a lot of things.

Isabela: Nonsense. But when I see something I like, I go after it.

Fenris: I suggest keeping your distance.

BUT that’s only if Fenris is romancing Hawke if he isn’t the banter is instead

Fenris: From what I gather, you like a lot of things.

Isabela: Nonsense. But when I see something I like, I go after it.

Fenris: Do you intend to go after me, then?

Isabela: Will you take off all that spiky armor you're wearing?

Fenris: It's been known to happen.

That’s a big tone difference isn’t it. In the first version he pushes her away as he’s interested in Hawke currently but in the second he’s flirting right back.

While yes in Act 1 he’s unsure and unused to her flirting but by Act 2 he’s willingly playing along. I mean he wouldn’t offer to play “Guess the color of my underclothes” with her if he didn’t enjoy it. It’s a safe way for Fenris to explore his sexuality and the only reason he tells her to back off at that time is because he’s serious about pursuing Hawke.

And no matter what Fenris respects her if only for one thing

Fenris: So you freed a group of slaves?

Isabela: Would-be slaves. They weren't slaves yet.

Fenris: Still, you did the right thing. Many would turn a blind eye.

Isabela: Don't read too much into it, all right? It just seemed a good idea at the time.

Like fundamentally I don’t think Fenris can hate someone who freed slaves.

It’s toxic/just about sex

I feel like this is more a jab at Isabela but again it’s over simplifying her character. Because here’s the thing most people over look when saying this ship is toxic for Fenris cause he’s a sexual abuse survivor ISABELA IS ONE TOO.

Isabela doesn’t really talk of her past much but from the dialogue given in game and tie in material we do know that

- her husband Louis purchased her from her mother young in the 10-13 age range

- he likely intended to groom her to be his perfect bride what with the lessons, gifts and such

- he forced himself on her and when isabela rebelled against him it’s implied he either did or was going to allow his friends to do so as well. To again let me reiterate a girl young enough to be his daughter.

Regardless of what exactly happened this did effect Isabela just in a different way. Isabela took autonomy of her body back once he was dead. Look some survivors of traumatic experiences are terrified of ever encountering it again but others continuously face the action head on to refuse it power, both are valid ways to deal with it. One is just less noticeable/sympathetic.

This line of thinking also ignores that literally the first intimate thing Fenris does when he enters a relationship with Hawke is have sex. They don’t ease into it just bam sex, but I have yet to see a Fenhawke is toxic hot take. which I mean I could make easily. Don’t believe me?

In the act 2 romance scene Fenris is angry, raw and emotional and taking it out on Hawke verbally before psychically pushing Hawke against a wall. when Fenris realizes what he’s done and pulls back Hawke immediately kisses him and they have sex. I could say Hawke took advantage of Fenris in his emotional state for their own sexual gratification. I don’t actually believe that but I could claim it. if you’re thinking that’s insane, you are correct but that’s the point it is very easy to twist things to fit a narrative if you really want to.

Now you might be thinking “Well it’s different Isabela just wants to use Fenris for sex” and if you think sex is just sex with Isabela you haven’t been paying attention.

Again I’ll go more into this with my isabela meta but to her sex is safe, it can’t hurt her but people can so she keeps them at arms length. With sex she can get the pyshical closeness she craves while keeping her feelings locked away in one night stands/flings. So the fact that she WANTS to continue seeing Fenris almost immediately after their first tour below deck is telling. And the fact he wants to continue just as much shows the relationship is as much his choice as it is hers.

And speaking of sex...

the memory plot hole

The main confusion I see people have with this ship is the Fenris gets memories after sex bit. And I get why it’s kinda vague but let me assure you it’s not a plot hole.

When you romance Fenris in Act 2 he leaves after having sex with Hawke due to memories returning and being unable to handle them. The confusion I see is often “so what sex with Hawke was so good it gave Fenris memories but not Isabela?” Or “why is it only Hawke?” The answer, it’s just a matter of timing.

The scene in question with Hawke only takes place in Act 2 but Fenris and Isabela don’t hook up until Act 3 and those three years in between make all the difference.

Act 2 Fenris has been free from Danarious(I will not spell his name right sorry) for at least 6 years but he’s still controlled by the man. He’s pissed at the lack of leads and when he gets one demands you go after it immediately and will straight up leave the party if you take too long. The reason is twofold he wants revenge and he’s afraid.

Fenris has only just started to carve out a life for himself in Kirkwall but he’s terrified that whatever life he has there will be torn away by Darnarious. Cause it’s happened before. So when he engages with Hawke and he’s flooded with these mostly happy memories it’s too much. He can’t handle it, at that time.

In just three years Fenris becomes a much more open and relaxed person. by Act 3 he has weekly card nights with Varric and Donnic, willingly helps Aveline and is even more relaxed about mages. The idea that he once had a life and a family before Danarious and that he can have one now isn’t as daunting or impossible to him as it was in Act 2.

It’s not that he doesn’t get the memories when sleeping with Isabela it’s only that he’s now in a place where he can handle them. Had Hawke the option to tell Fenris to take things slow in Act 2 the pair likely would not have separated. However that’s not what happened Fenris thought that he could handle it but couldn’t as he was in Act 2.

Don’t believe well Fenris himself says so to Hawke in Act 3 when asked why he left.

Fenris: the pain, the memories it brought up... it was too much. I was coward. If I could go back I would stay.

I’m not surprised people either missed or didn’t pick on this bit it happens late in the game and it is entirely possible to miss this branch of dialogue but it’s there and confirms what I stated. It’s not a plot hole only a matter of timing. Hawke had bad timing Isabela didn’t.

By Act 3 he’s in a better place mentally and is able to feel okay with the memories, with intimacy and with the idea of having a life. Whether or not Fenris and Isabela are serious about the relationship is irrelevant (though I head cannon they tell themselves it’s just a fling only to still be together years later) it’s the fact that he feels he can engage in this fashion with someone that’s important.

It should have been Isabela x Merrill

Now I can’t argue with people’s taste that’s ridiculous and I can see the appeal they’re cute. However it’s not something they could simply put in the game like Fenabela.

Let me explain. The reason it works in DA2 is cause it’s a light, flirty and fun type relationship and even if you don’t ship it, the idea is easy to chew off. If you play through their romances the idea that the two characters with huge trusts issues hooking up for fun isn’t that hard to buy.

Merrill however would require more than a couple teasing lines of dialogue. The reason being her romance plot.

The first thing Merrill says after having sex with Hawke is “I love you” if you don’t think Isabela would freak out at that and jump on the first boat she could find I don’t know but I’d like to hear your reasoning.

It takes Isabela a long ass time to be ok with saying and being told that with Hawke. It’s a big part of her romance arc.

Sooooo if one were to play through both their romances then play a game where they got together off screen it would require more dialogue than what Fenabela got otherwise it’d be a far bigger plot hole issue as the pair do not move at the same emotional speed.

Like I can’t see Merrill being into having a casual fling even by Act 3 and I can’t see Isabela being ok with a serious relationship either without a good deal of added dialogue and scenes.

Now this one is the most subjective part of the meta, I’m well aware, but with how BioWare handles their side romances Isabela x Merrill just could not be folded into the narrative as easily as Fenabela and likely would have been too intrusive for those uninterested in side romances.

So we’ve covered the main misconceptions and complaints on the ship. now to get into why Fenabela does work, and why people like this ship.

Their romances parallel each other

Something I noticed about the Kirkwall crew (and I might make a meta on it damn I got so many things to write) is that they each parallel and reflect each other (which is one of the reasons I dislike the Sebastian addition cause he kinda screws it up)

Aveline and Varric:

- Both are non romanceable

- Need Hawkes help to sort out their personal lives

- Both thrive in the friendship Hawke gives them

Merrill and Anders:

- both thirsty AF for Hawke and immediately move in

- both have blinders on in regards to their goals and ideals, Merrill with the mirror and Anders with well you know

- this also causes problems for both in their relationships with Hawke

So then we have Fenris and Isabela

- both wear a mask of indifference in Act 1 that is peeled away by Hawke in Act 3

- both runaway/try to distance themselves from Hawke and their relationship in Act 2 only to renew it in Act 3

- and both NEED to feel they can trust Hawke in order to move forward

Now unlike Merrill and Anders who’s conflict with Hawke is mostly situational (ie were it not for the mirror and being in Kirkwall aka mage torture capital of the free marches, there would be no problem) Fenris and Isabela’s conflicts are purely emotional and an emotion they share

Leading us to

They are damaged in similar ways

The main conflicts in their romances is fear.

A fear of happiness and a fear of love.

They both think that if they were to get that which they desire most they’d lose it or it’d be used against them or most of all they aren’t deserving of it and will never receive it.

And this is entirely because of what happened to them in life prior to arriving in Kirkwall.

They lived lives where love and happiness were things that could be used against them. A weakness to exploit or a reward to be taken away. So it makes sense that for their romance arcs they have to have trust to believe this love and happiness with Hawke is worth the risk.

So it’s safe to say that we’re they not romanced by Hawke it’s only natural they’d be drawn to one another. We often look for similarities in our partners sometimes it’s in appearance, others it’s values but for them it’d be their shared pain and fear.

Hawke: you’re not afraid of being hurt you’re afraid of hurting someone else

Isabela: no I look it isn’t like that it’s just easier this way

Isabela: you were right. I wasn’t afraid of love I was afraid of being loved.

Fenris: I killed them all

Hawke: why would you do such a thing?

Fenris: I felt it inevitable. My master had returned and this...this fantasy life was over.

Fenris: I’m sorry. All I ever wanted was to be happy...just for a little while. Forgive me.

Its why they are implied to have a more casual relationship in Act 3 than they would with Hawke. Hawke doesn’t have the same issues with intimacy as they do thus would take longer. And there is an appeal to the idea of two people finding comfort and support in one another even if it’s only temporary.

Isabela = fog warriors

So this is something I literally just noticed as I was working on this meta but um the Fog Warriors who helped Fenris after he first was free of Danarious whom he speaks of fondly greatly resemble Isabela at least in the traits he describes that he seems to find the most appealing.

Fenris: I had grown fond of the rebels. They bowed to no master and fought for their freedom.

Fenris: I had only been with them a few months but in that time I had felt I truly lived. They were bold, strong, free with their affections. I was in awe of them.

Like let’s take what he says here out of context for a second.

He says he was in awe and felt truly alive with someone who was

- bold - strong - free with affection - rebellious

- defiant - strong sense of freedom

That kinda describes Isabelas base personality perfectly. I can’t state that this was intentional or even if Fenris was aware but it’s not a long shot to say that Fenris would be drawn and attracted to people like this for this reason.

Their banter is cute

I mean I know it’s subjective but they do have some great back and forth and if you enjoy flirty snarky people it opens up some great opportunities in fan fiction and such. Characters who play well off each other are always more desirable and they got a great wise guy/straight man thing going.

They spend more time than we know together

A thing that can be overlooked easily it that each act has about 3 years in between them making the total run in the game about 9 years. We know from banter that the various characters interact with each other regularly regardless of whether or not Hawke is there. (Something I wish they could do more if EA got their heads out of their asses and gave us re release!)

Anyway we know from these brief moments that

- Fenris lets isabela visit the mansion

- isabela helps him out from time to time

- she’s one of the few people who’s opinion on mages he considers

- they play cards and/or make bets with each other

- they interact enough that Varric takes notice in the MOA dlc

it’s again something that’s fun to play with in fiction.

To summarize

- it’s not toxic

- they like interacting with one another

- there is no plot hole

- it’s not just about sex

- they were the easiest to pair up on the side

- they parallel each other

- share similar fears and traumas

- their personalities are fun to play with for fans

Fenabela really does not deserve the hate or lack of care it gets from the fandom. It’s the story of two damaged people finding support in one another if only for a short time and there’s nothing wrong with enjoying that.

Again I’m not saying this ship is better than any other, I’m not trying to get you to jump ship all this meta is here for is to clear up some misconceptions and unwarranted hate, and bring some much needed spot light to this ship that is often overlooked.

Anyway I want to thank anyone who read through this whole thing for their time and if you’d like to discuss any points here with me please reblog with “makers breath” first and I’ll 100% be up for talking (if you didn’t bother to read and just want to rant at me I will ignore it) I plan on making more of these as well as finishing fics but this topic has weighed on me for some time.

#dragon age #da2 #fenris #da isabela #da fenris #fenabela #fenebela #fenris x isabela #meta #isabela #da #bioware

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