CW: consent issues, bodily autonomy, SA, Astarion lore
ok so the Astarion act 2 hug scene in my playthrough was delightful but watching a vid of the other outcomes afterwards absolutely DESTROYED me!!!! I feel like I haven’t seen a lot of references to these lines of dialogue (for obvious reasons, I don’t think a lot of ppl pick that line of questioning cuz its very cruel) but maybe they are discussed frequently and I’m just not super active in the fandom on here. Either way, Neil’s delivery of this was heartbreaking and I can’t stop thinking about it
These lines really work to re-contextualize so much of his behaviour up to that point, I would argue more than some of the sweet ones do if you respond positively to him. There’s a terrifying amount of honesty in some of these lines. He’s just told you how fucked up his relationship with sexuality has been for the past 2 centuries and it’s almost like he’s battling between still trying to appease you and going “but didn’t you just hear what I said? This isn’t want I want” and trying to explain himself further because maybe then someone will finally get it.
And the scene you can possibly get afterwards where you pressure him into sex is brutal. I’m so glad the game recognizes this as a really fucked up thing to do and if you pressure him then no matter what he’ll break up with you the morning after because he’s tired of being used. It’s definitely the saddest and quietest Astarion is up to that point in the game and it’s such a huge contrast to his normal performative personality.
Astarion just sitting silently after having spent an entire night disassociating while being pressured for sex IMMEDIATELY after explaining how uncomfortable that makes him to the first person he kinda cared about in 200 years is insane and I almost can’t believe that’s a possible outcome in the game.
All my screenshots were from this very helpful youtube clip btw:
I highly recommend scrolling through that video if you want extra insight on him as a character, I feel there are a lot of important and emotional pieces of dialogue for Astarion that are hidden behind cruel/shitty Tav choices so a lot of ppl may not end up seeing them. I love BG3 but this is one of the first cutscenes that’s really effected me emotionally, both the normal gentle version I got to see in my own playthrough and the cold cruel versions you can find on youtube.
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Read this if you grew up with guilt
warning: heavy mention of parental abus3
no pink for this post
feel free to reblog and add to this !!
So I see a lot of people, even my friends as well as myself feel guilty when they’re distant toward an abusive mother who had a moment of kindness.
None of my friends have been able to pinpoint why we feel guilty, or why we feel the need to stay distant by default, or why our mothers have “clarity moments” we call them, which is where they will act kind or do something for us instead of the usual which is screaming hitting or some other form of abus3.
But I have-
We feel guilt when being distant for multiple reasons:
1: Abus1ve mothers tend to hold over our heads that they do everything they can to support us, such as food on the table and a roof over our heads, and then state how hard they work for it, so instead of telling them how we feel (in a negative sense) we take our own emotions and bottle them up because “mom has it worse” even though that same parent does traumatizing things to us, we will still think that “mom has it worse” even subconsciously.
2: We tend to stay distant by default during a clarity moment because we’re scared that if we let our guard down, the clarity moment will end, and we’ll be yelled at or hit for pulling off our mask of being the “tough child” who can take all of their parents high and low emotions, and rants. Because trust me, an abus1ve mother WILL vent to her child and expect the child to take it. But that same child will not be allowed to express their own emotions without being told “mom has it worse” by their own mother and being told that they’re “overreacting” or “attention seeking” and that they don’t need help.
3: When a mother does have a clarity moment, it may just be by chance, never by her own guilt, unless you have spent hours making her feel a slight bit of guilt. So she’ll do something for you, it might be something small the first time she has a clarity moment, such as making breakfast or doing a chore for you, and you’ll accept it this first time, and let your guard down, and then she’ll complain about you being lazy, that she does too much at work and around the house. That’s when it kicks in that you need to keep your guard up, that you CANNOT get close to your mother or let her see you crumble or even smile in some cases.
(warning mention of S/A)
4: In worse cases.. an abu1ve mother may S/A her child, it’s rare but it happens, and it can happen in a lot of different ways, this form of abus3 will cause the child to always have a wall up, to the parent and to everyone in their life, they’ll push people away, or not, but they’ll always carry the worst guilt out of most cases..
-
It’s different for every kid and mother.
Some kids are lucky with amazing mothers, some have to endure the absolute 7 rings of hell, not everybody loves the same life, but this post is just to show people that their guilt is valid, that they don’t have to feel bad for keeping themselves safe from a mother that has hurt them in some way.
You have done your best as a child, you made it this far in a household you couldn’t change, and for that im proud of you.
For everyone else.. please don’t belittle a friend who feels a lot of guilt, some have carried the weight of it since they were a child, some have only had it a few months, but be surprised if they apologize constantly, don’t talk a lot, or have high anxiety. Guilt is a small curse that some of us cannot escape, but it’s a very valid struggle as well.
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Hello, I hope you’re doing okay and great! I have some serious questions on ASPD and therapy I need your opinion on it.
-what do you think of the therapy with pwASPD? also have you been in therapy? how was it for you (if that’s okay to answer)
-do you think therapy works for pwASPD?
( I personally have aspd i’m diagnosed by psychiatrist)
I really need an answer. I’m giving up on therapy. which i don’t mind anymore.
I have been in therapy with 3 therapists so far, and have talked to a few pwASPD who have been in therapy as well. For me, so far, I don't think I've found a therapist I click well with ASPD-wise, so we tend to stick to talking about PTSD. I am protective of my mask, and letting it slip enough to discuss my ASPD symptoms is hard because I learned I *have* to keep this mask up at all times or be in danger.
That said, my therapists have not been specialists in any form. They are all your basic therapist without any specialization at all and have openly told me this. Most are much more used to basic depression, anxiety, and one was used to OCD as well. Even so, therapy has still been very helpful for my ASPD, if only because it gives me a place to work through trauma which enables me to handle my ASPD responses from said trauma by myself.
My friends with ASPD have directly benefited from therapy, however, as they had therapists who were more open to talking about those symptoms. Someone I knew went from being stuck in a loop of self-destructive behaviors (including sh and alcoholism, amongst others) and very violent outbursts that caused hospital visits and many, many cop calls to being able to function well enough that they actually were able to adjust (under the care of a psychiatrist) their meds down significantly and functioned far better than before. They went from having cops called on them at least once a month to going a couple months at a time without even having the urge to do anything violent, and only acted on it in ways that hurt no one (such as stepping away from the situation and breaking their own unused computer parts in a controlled manner, then returning to the interaction when they were calm). Cases like theirs aren't uncommon, and of course pwASPD symptoms that don't manifest the same way theirs did still find benefit from therapy. Not everyone will, but I think overall there is nothing about ASPD that would stop therapy from being effective if you find the right person and type.
I do think some research has to be done into the right specialist (I prefer trauma specialists vs cluster b specialists because trauma specialists have much less stigma about us in my experience). Also, as with anyone with any disorder going into therapy, you will have to try it out and do research to find the best types of therapy for you.
There is some research suggesting that MBT/Mentalization therapy may be beneficial to pwASPD, as it has shown to be very helpful for pwBPD. As I (a non-professional) understand it, MBT focuses on teaching you (very slowly) to reflect on your thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. and that of other people's. Especially for pwASPD who are not willing to open up about their past (very common as that makes us feel vulnerable), MBT can be a great option, as it does not address the past at all. Instead it focuses on how things are going for you right now, in the moment using the interactions with your therapist as a guide. So if you show signs of anxiety while talking to your therapist, they would point that out to you and help you recognize it and adjust for it in the moment. Over time, this can help train your brain to do this outside of the therapy session as well.
Schema therapy is another one that is commonly thought to be helpful for pwASPD, as it focuses on the behavioral and thought patterns taught to us in childhood and works to identify ones that basically aren't helping us anymore. It seems very Marie Kondo to me, but for mental health. If that process isn't serving you anymore, then it should be gotten rid of (which takes time and effort and is part of what the therapist helps with) to make room for new, healthier responses that make more sense in the context of your current life.
For example, if, as a child, you had to steal to get the things you needed because you were being neglected, your brain may have taken in that that is what one does to survive. However, if you are an adult who is capable of taking care of themselves and can get what they need without stealing to do so, schema therapy would help to address the emotions and trauma that led to the former belief and help to replace it with the understanding that you can support yourself without it.
Both of these, actually, are commonly recommended for pwBPD, which is why they are being researched for ASPD. I haven't been to anyone who specifically uses these forms, but they sound similar to the ways I taught myself to avoid destructive behaviors and I can see how they may help keep pwASPD from feeling unsafe in therapy and quitting.
No type of therapy works for everyone, nor everyone with a specific disorder, but if these sound like they might help I would advise you to research them and speak to a therapist who specializes in one of them. If not, I would research other kinds. Yes, therapy does not work for everyone, but there are so many methods and approaches that I would say a vast majority of people can find a method that works for them. The process of trying new methods and therapists out is usually where people give up.
If you're able, I'd advise you to keep trying. At the end of the day, though, I am just someone on the internet who does not know your situation anywhere near as well as you and/or your professionals and/or your loved ones do. I can't say for sure that it will work.
What I can say is that I do believe there is a solid chance therapy can help if you're willing to keep trying.
Plain text below the cut:
I have been in therapy with 3 therapists so far, and have talked to a few pwASPD who have been in therapy as well. For me, so far, I don't think I've found a therapist I click well with ASPD-wise, so we tend to stick to talking about PTSD. I am protective of my mask, and letting it slip enough to discuss my ASPD symptoms is hard because I learned I *have* to keep this mask up at all times or be in danger.
That said, my therapists have not been specialists in any form. They are all your basic therapist without any specialization at all and have openly told me this. Most are much more used to basic depression, anxiety, and one was used to OCD as well. Even so, therapy has still been very helpful for my ASPD, if only because it gives me a place to work through trauma which enables me to handle my ASPD responses from said trauma by myself.
My friends with ASPD have directly benefited from therapy, however, as they had therapists who were more open to talking about those symptoms. Someone I knew went from being stuck in a loop of self-destructive behaviors (including sh and alcoholism, amongst others) and very violent outbursts that caused hospital visits and many, many cop calls to being able to function well enough that they actually were able to adjust (under the care of a psychiatrist) their meds down significantly and functioned far better than before. They went from having cops called on them at least once a month to going a couple months at a time without even having the urge to do anything violent, and only acted on it in ways that hurt no one (such as stepping away from the situation and breaking their own unused computer parts in a controlled manner, then returning to the interaction when they were calm). Cases like theirs aren't uncommon, and of course pwASPD symptoms that don't manifest the same way theirs did still find benefit from therapy. Not everyone will, but I think overall there is nothing about ASPD that would stop therapy from being effective if you find the right person and type.
I do think some research has to be done into the right specialist (I prefer trauma specialists vs cluster b specialists because trauma specialists have much less stigma about us in my experience). Also, as with anyone with any disorder going into therapy, you will have to try it out and do research to find the best types of therapy for you.
There is some research suggesting that MBT/Mentalization therapy may be beneficial to pwASPD, as it has shown to be very helpful for pwBPD. As I (a non-professional) understand it, MBT focuses on teaching you (very slowly) to reflect on your thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. and that of other people's. Especially for pwASPD who are not willing to open up about their past (very common as that makes us feel vulnerable), MBT can be a great option, as it does not address the past at all. Instead it focuses on how things are going for you right now, in the moment using the interactions with your therapist as a guide. So if you show signs of anxiety while talking to your therapist, they would point that out to you and help you recognize it and adjust for it in the moment. Over time, this can help train your brain to do this outside of the therapy session as well.
Schema therapy is another one that is commonly thought to be helpful for pwASPD, as it focuses on the behavioral and thought patterns taught to us in childhood and works to identify ones that basically aren't helping us anymore. It seems very Marie Kondo to me, but for mental health. If that process isn't serving you anymore, then it should be gotten rid of (which takes time and effort and is part of what the therapist helps with) to make room for new, healthier responses that make more sense in the context of your current life.
For example, if, as a child, you had to steal to get the things you needed because you were being neglected, your brain may have taken in that that is what one does to survive. However, if you are an adult who is capable of taking care of themselves and can get what they need without stealing to do so, schema therapy would help to address the emotions and trauma that led to the former belief and help to replace it with the understanding that you can support yourself without it.
Both of these, actually, are commonly recommended for pwBPD, which is why they are being researched for ASPD. I haven't been to anyone who specifically uses these forms, but they sound similar to the ways I taught myself to avoid destructive behaviors and I can see how they may help keep pwASPD from feeling unsafe in therapy and quitting.
No type of therapy works for everyone, nor everyone with a specific disorder, but if these sound like they might help I would advise you to research them and speak to a therapist who specializes in one of them. If not, I would research other kinds. Yes, therapy does not work for everyone, but there are so many methods and approaches that I would say a vast majority of people can find a method that works for them. The process of trying new methods and therapists out is usually where people give up.
If you're able, I'd advise you to keep trying. At the end of the day, though, I am just someone on the internet who does not know your situation anywhere near as well as you and/or your professionals and/or your loved ones do. I can't say for sure that it will work.
What I can say is that I do believe there is a solid chance therapy can help if you're willing to keep trying.
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Gavin is a flighty and self-preserving asshole to the point he took an offer to rat out his entire team he'd operated with for four years and had considered, more or less, family. Let's talk about it.
CHILDHOOD.
Gavin Payne was born to-—well, he doesn't know. Put up for adoption at birth or at some point before he could recall, he was placed in a moderately average and lower middle class family. It wasn't an abusive childhood in the way you saw in movies or read in books, but it was arguably one of neglect. A roof over his head, clothes on his body, and food in his stomach was about all he got from his adoptive parents.
As a child, he'd attempted to gain his parents affection like any normal child would. Perfect grades, a pleasant demeanor, did his chores, minded his bedtime. He was bright and clever and was open and wanting of the sort of family you saw on TV. Everything that was deemed the typical way to earn praise and love, Gavin was that. When these attempts were met with nothing, he flipped to what any ignored child would flip to-—he acted out. Poor grades, horrid behavior at school. Anything that could more or less FORCE his parents to do SOMETHING with him. Nothing.
This continued on into and through high school and he jumped into the army as soon as he could. Childhood had taught Gavin that the only one who would look out for him and ever really be in his corner was himself and this mentality would stick with him.
ON PURPOSE, BELONGING, & STABILITY.
The army gave him something he hadn't had before. Purpose. He had a reason to use his brain, had a reason to try. There were incentives, you were noticed. Up until now he'd been screaming that he was there, that he existed and now, suddenly, people were actually acknowledging it. He threw himself into it. Not because of any foolish idea of patriotism or fighting for his country, but because he had found a place that had provided him with everything his childhood hadn't.
DISCHARGED.
Gavin was good. He was quick and clever and incredibly tactical. He excelled in just about every aspect of the field except for the part that would inevitably lead him to his discharge. His incompatibility with any semblance of brotherhood or caring for his fellow man would serve to be the nail in his ccoffin that would lose him everything he'd gained up until that point. He was too individualistic, too transactional.
When he was out, it was hell. And as soon as he'd been given a chance to get back in? He took it without asking many questions. This would become a reoccurring thing in his life.
MISC. (Because I'm tired and I want to wrap this up, lmao)
When you're raised with only yourself to count on, sacrifice for your fellow man isn't really a concept to you. When you haven't learned that ability to trust and let others in, it's easy to see things from a very simplified THEM or ME standpoint when put in dire situations. When it came down to either the high likelihood of dying alongside his squad after they'd been burn noticed or living at the cost of ENSURING they died-—it wasn't as hard of a choice to make as Gavin likes to tell himself sometimes.
Ironically enough, it is PMC work/Shadow Company that finally sort of makes something shift in him. It's slow and it's twisted in its execution but he starts to care, actually care. Bringing men back alive isn't just done because of some obligation. Putting himself at risk isn't done with the expectation of some transactional return later. His fellow shadows aren't just names and faces and bodies, they're individuals he comes to know.
And when he has to pull all of that out from under himself, it's not easy. He can't detach from it as he had with his old squad. What he'd grown to know with Shadow Co. couldn't be written off as just numbers or just more bodies. In a situation of THEM or ME, he still had ultimately chose himself but it hadn't been quick and clean. For once, and finally, he genuinely felt like a traitor and one with remorse no less.
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