#they just don't listen.... we have a culture issue but they won't acknowledge the issue

[theguardianace]

Hi hi hello I'm back!! How are you my dear 🤎

Hi dear! It's so nice to see you again :)

[dontforgetukraine]

#if a fucking propaganda movie is allowed in a film festival it just proves the west doesn't care

I wouldn't necessarily say that people in the West don't care. This is a failure occurring at multiple levels.

-First is the recognition that RT (and its current and former employees) is an arm of the Kremlin and is used for psyops. The Dept of Justice in America is finally showing some awareness about that, but this needs to happen at the government, business, and civilian level everywhere. -Second is how this film got sponsors and taxpayer money to be made in the first place. What oversight is currently there and how can it be made sure this doesn't happen again? -Third is what oversight is there at these cultural and art events? -Fourth is making sure people are educated and are able to recognize any form of propaganda.

Generally speaking, it's more likely people in the West, especially America, don't know how to recognize Russian propaganda.

I'll speak from an American perspective since that's where I am. We're uninformed due to it not being covered in our education system and media landscape. In addition, our leaders have been too slow to act on psyops. While Russian psyops flood the information space of news and social media, and some of us can recognize it, the propaganda about Ukraine we encounter is different from what's in "Russians at War" with some exceptions (ex. "Whataboutism"). A person that is only vaguely aware of the war and doesn't closely follow what's happening won't necessarily recognize the context and content. That's not an excuse. That's just reality. This is something I have to keep reminding myself, that the people around me don't know how to recognize it unless they are deliberately following the war and looking to educate themselves by listening to Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans.

There needs to be more education on forms of propaganda and media literacy, and how to build up cognitive resilience. Propaganda doesn't always look like propaganda. I'll refer to a quote I posted from Dietmar Pichler. We typically think of propaganda coming from social media and talk shows, although now in this age its a lot of podcasts and YouTube videos. These are easy to overlook, including film at a cultural and arts festival.

I'll also refer to this quote from Pekka Kallioniemi.

Transparency should be our key weapon against individuals on the fringes who promote Kremlin propaganda… Highlighting and discussing these issues openly can help. Raising awareness about individuals spreading Kremlin propaganda, especially those in positions of power, is vital… Most countries, even those strongly opposed to the Kremlin, will have one or two such pro-Kremlin voices. It’s important to acknowledge that in a democracy, everyone has a voice, even if it’s frustrating to hear Kremlin propaganda. This underscores the importance of education. If people are equipped with cognitive resilience against such misinformation, it loses its impact on society as a whole. Building cognitive resilience through education is crucial. It’s a long-term investment, but it’s an essential competence also for our children’s future, well-being, and security.

So, please, don't automatically assume the West doesn't care. There's a long road in this fight for the information space and to educate that needs to happen on multiple fronts. It's going to take all the resources and people we can get against an enemy that is very good at what it does and has been doing it for a long time. I know it's frustrating and it sucks, but there are those of us here that care and I want to reassure people about that. Remember, the enemy wants you to despair.

[lonita]

B roll - 2020 09 13

13 - People choosing to stay on CERB rather than work is a sign that the wage system is broken. Wages should be higher than a government subsidy meant only to assist people through a crisis.

13 - Basic income is just money. It is not socialist. It is fuel for markets that CAN be funded from socialised sources but does not need to be.

13 - Minimum wage was initially meant so that a single earner could support a family on one wage. This has not been possible for decades. Wages have not kept pace with rising rents and cost of living.

13 - Disabled and chronically ill people who are unable to work due not just to their disabilities but also because employers won't hire them, are legislated into a poverty level where they cannot pay rents, buy decent food, cover their medications, or improve themselves.

13 - We should be taking care of our most vulnerable people. As much as I pay taxes to pave roads and put other peoples' children through school, those people can pitch in to help those who cannot help themselves. We're all on this boat together.

13 - If you're one that pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps, bully for you. Just remember that that is not possible for everyone, sometimes people need help, and there is nothing wrong with needing help. A person getting a leg up now could be the surgeon that saves you later.

13 - The wealthy, and I don't mean you middle-class wage-earners, so stop right there, should be paying higher taxes. Particularly if they're offshoring their money in tax havens rather than investing it in the very economy they live in and profit from.

13 - We falsely value work in a qualitative sense, particularly low-wage work. We see it as valueless or temporary, when it's neither.

13 - Somewhere there is a universe full of socks and forks.

13 - "Get a job" is a categorical statement that does not account for the number of issues faced by jobseekers, which includes automation, increased numbers of middle-class jobs being split into gig/part-time jobs with no benefits, and no ability to support a family.

13 - A degree is no guarantee of a job, and certainly not a guarantee of a job in the field you trained for. A minimum wage job cannot support a rent, basic necessities, and student debt. Post-secondary shouldn't be the debt machine it is.

13 - I think we've reached that unfortunate part of the year where I might have to start closing my windows at night. She's getting right chilly out there at night.

13 - I want to help those who need it because I know first-hand what challenges are out there that regular everyday folk don't see.

13 - In some cultures it's considered rude if you don't constantly acknowledge that you're listening to someone by various 'active listening' noises - mm-hmm, yes, etc. - that in Western cultures we would consider to be a sign of distraction, possibly rude, and even outright infuriating.

13 - I haven't been in a dojo since March, and I was supposed to be going tomorrow. But guess what? I have cold symptoms. Fuck me.

[measuringbliss]

Comics Read-Through: Romeo (1)

So I immediately fell in love with Romeo's appearance in Astonishing Ice-Man #1 (2023) and decided I'd better check out his entire list of appearances, which thankfully is very small.

Spoiler alert: This post ends on a depressing note.

We're going to be jumping around a lot.

The first issue is a X-Men run, and coincidentally, I've been listening to Jay & Miles X-Plain the X-Men for the past few days. I've only listened to the first 9 episodes, but I think I won't be lost too much. I definitely recommend giving it a listen if you're curious about the X-Men comics!

All-New X-Men (2016) #13

I was actually surprised to see Bobby's sexuality at the forefront of this issue. He's gay and out now. He came out in April 2015's issue, so as you can guess from the title, not long before this one.

The art is very pretty, quite colorful and easy on the eyes. Very interestingly, Bobby says his idea of a gay culture is very outdated (and actually offensive according to the Internet). After all, he IS a younger version of him from the first issues, and not older current-day Iceman. Which is sad when you think about it, because any meaningful connexion Bobby might make in this time will be rendered useless when he comes back to his time, in the past.

Does that come from Top Gun? Hahaha, I should really finish that movie. I think I still have an hour left or something...

So Bobby finally lets himself go, and their hands touch... and Bobby cries and becomes Iceman right in the middle of the bar. He's ashamed and leaves and barges on... Romeo, naturally. They proceed to flirt, and are interrupted by a beautiful creature.

Really great art!

This is actually a friend of Romeo's, who calms him down, and then Romeo's fellow Inhumans arrive. Later, Romeo explains that he's an empath and can manipulate emotions. So this is basically Mantis. Okay! I'm into that, as a concept, because it can lead to great stories (see: Buffy S6). Bobby feels awkward about that, but...

I squeed. They're adorable!

That's how the issue ends, with the last sentence promising "Next: More Horror for Cyclops" which sounds like a sadistic fanfic writer. Hell yeah. But we won't be reading that, because...

2. Spider-Woman (2016) #10

Spider-Woman! We're reading other Spider-people comics before even meeting our first alternate one. Well, I guess technically we met Peter's clone? Maybe? I don't know much about Ben Reilly, but given we just finished (re)reading the first Clone Saga...

Oh, and did I say this issue is in the middle of Civil War II? Which is ridiculous because I've only read Civil War I.

No matter! The art style is pretty different, but I oddly like it.

Jess is on a mission to basically confirm Ulysses's visions, because she doesn't trust them. Romeo appears to take care of a new, old lady Inhuman who doesn't control her newfound powers very well. I have to mention that he's pretty ugly in this issue.

It ends with national news that Clint Barton (Hawkeye) just killed Bruce Banner (Hulk), and Jess is pretty pissed at her girlfriend, Captain Marvel (they're very lesbiany in this issue and Jess acknowledges it, I wonder if it went farther than this).

Let's shift back to...

3. All-New X-Men (2016) #17

Sooo... Bobby and Romeo are boyfriends, and the Inhumans and X-Men are at war with each other. Oops.

The issue begins with their 4th date, and Bobby slaps himself, thinking he should have kissed Romeo. And I'm like. What. exactly. have you been doing those past dates. if you haven't even kissed?!

But the concept of dates is very alien to me, we were actually talking about that with my boyfriend this week-end. I considered us boyfriend our very first date, where he had the option to go back home and chose to actually follow me home. I was like, "okay, we're boyfriends then" and we definitely kissed, I'll tell ya. But in *his* head, we only became boyfriends weeks later when I realized he was missing me while I was away. What a goof. I love him.

So 4 dates without even kissing? Gay kids? This is completely absurd but okay. Gotta milk that teenage angst.

The whole team meanwhile has been waiting in Bobby's room to tell him that, uh, things were going to get complicated for him and his boyfriend.

Then we get a flashback to their first date! They held hands, how wonderful.

And in the present, Bobby takes part in the attack on New Attilan (Romeo's home). Date #2 recollection! They play Laser Tag and Romeo argues those things are a relic of the past, but at least in my country, they're still very popular so what gives?

Date #3! They splashed in a Water Park!

Bobby finds Romeo in a safe room with non-combattants, which I find sad because I'm sure Romeo's skills have battle applications... but reassuring other people is probably important as well.

Well. I guess that's a way to make it important!

Together, they leave the place because love is more important than a silly battle with dubious motivations.

It's only reading the comments on a certain website that I understand that Romeo's called like that because... it's a Romeo and Juliet story. Duh.

4. All-New X-Men (2016) #19

I assume the issue in-between shows what happens aside from them. This is all definitely slower pacing than what I'm used to, not that I'm complaining.

I thought it would be a grand war final issue, but the blurb says the war has ended. Oh. Uh. Okay. You know what? Let's skim through #18.

It... doesn't help much, though. There's parallel series where the crux happens. Oh well. I sure wouldn't be satisfied if I was only reading one magazine. At least, if you're wondering, Bobby went back to help his team.

So, #19!

Who are you and what did you do to Romeo?!

So Hank sends the OG 5 to their past... but they discover that their originals never left. So the OG5 who were transported to the future will stay in the future (so, the present). Okay, that's a good conclusion!

Gee, I wonder what we're reading n--

5. Iceman (2017) #1

Tuuuuuurns out... This comic series features TWO Icemen: current Iceman, and displaced Iceman. Huh! I didn't see that coming.

We get a nice Romeo cameo, and Current!Bobby is called because his father is in the hospital. He didn't come out to his family, that sucks.

His family sucks, by the way, dear Lord.

Intriguing series, not sure I'll ever read it though.

So... that's it. Romeo pretty much doesn't appear anymore between 2017 and 2021.

So here I was, thinking it was intriguing, that story about the displaced X-Men. I had to find out what happened to Displaced!Bobby!

Turns out he does have a storyline with his companions in X-Men Blue and it's more or less... harrowing.

What's in red brackets is what happens in All-New X-Men (2016) #19. After that, it's X-Men Blue. Dear Lord. That's a nasty retcon.

So I assume that the next part of the Bobby/Romeo storyline is with Current!Bobby then. Oof. We'll see that in the next post!

[umbrabilis-orchis]

Head in my hands rn. Head in my hands.

There are a lot of issues here that I'm sure have been talked to death but I'm going to lay out my two cents anyway.

1. People are right, why tf is Sumeru a conglomeration of cultures rather than taking inspiration from one country or group specifically, like the rest of the regions we have so far? Grouping the entire Middle East with the entirety of Southeast Asia for some... mishmash aesthetic looks dumb and is just really doing a disservice to every culture you're trying to take inspiration from. It would've been much better to pick a specific area and stick with that.

2. I'd ask why Genshin designers are afraid of making characters with dark skin, but I know the answer is because dark skinned characters don't make money in their view. Genshin Impact is first and foremost a waifu/husbando simulator and unfortunately, colorism is rampant not only across the main CN and JP markets, but the rest of the world too. Pale skin is seen as a very desirable trait while anything darker than a light tan is not. Hence, it is safer for Hoyoverse to make light skinned characters because they know that's what the beauty standard is. Obviously this sucks major ass and is not right at all, but since when have companies really cared about anything other than profit? Especially gacha games, who are designed to suck the most money out of you as possible?

3. Everyone doing redesigns of the current Sumeru characters are doing the Lord's work. It is clear to me and hopefully anyone else with eyes that a lot of these characters would look much better if they had darker skin and outfits that weren't just... vague amalgamations of... some kind of culture. Looking at the leaked designs, it is really hard to tell what real world cultural designs and motifs most of them are supposed to be referencing. (Again, see point 1). And for some, like Dori, they're just straight up stereotypes, which is arguably worse.

4. AFAIK, there are more dark skinned characters in the works, and hopefully that balances the Sumeru cast out more, but that still doesn't excuse all of this nonsense. I'm really worried about the trend this is setting... Natlan is supposed to be based off of Mesoamerica, but with the way things are going with Sumeru, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with even more light skinned people instead of dark skinned ones. I also don't really trust Hoyo to handle Natlan with any kind of tact; having a region based on Central America be themed after violence and war is already playing pretty dangerously into stereotype territory. My expectations are already 6 feet under and I'm sure I'll still be disappointed.

5. I'll be honest, I have no idea what to do about any of this. Obviously the players are right to be mad and should voice their concerns to the rest of the playerbase and Hoyoverse themselves, but I think we're all aware at this point that Hoyo doesn't give a damn about the surveys and replies to emails with just bot answers. It seems highly unlikely to me that they will do anything about this, unless they feel like they're going to lose a significant amount of money because of it. I mean, they caved when everyone got on them about the anniversary rewards, and arguably this is much more important than that! But really, who knows. I guess just make your opinion known to Hoyoverse and if push comes to shove be ready to pack up and leave unless the criticism is acknowledged. You have to be serious about not giving them any money, or else they won't listen. They have to know it is more profitable to listen and respond to criticism than it is to ignore it and be ignorant.

I think that about covers my opinion on all of this. Remember to think critically about what you see and hear, and to do your own research before coming up with answers to your questions. I, and no one else in the tag, or on Twitter or Reddit or anywhere else, is a 100% expert on any of these issues, and it behooves you as a consumer to gather information from all sides of an issue before coming to a conclusion.

[mermaidsirennikita]

There's definitely a connection going on with the whole sanitized media, purity culture, unproblematic fave era that's happening right now. You brought up David Bowie who is not the only one. There comes a point when people don't want to pull on the thread because they will realize most popular entertainers have been accused (and are most likely guilty) of assault, domestic violence, rape or have probably been with underaged girls or boys. And as much as they don't want to be seen enjoying, stanning or shipping something problematic that's in fact impossible. So that's why we get people defending or denying or outright refusing to acknowledge the problematic behaviours of not only their faves but people in popular culture.

I think people do need to accept that the vast majority of the people they like, who are famous, have done something they won't like. Depending on when the person became famous, some of the sins may be lesser... But it's a fucked industry. You could have someone posting a really shitty slut-shaming comment, someone liking something they shouldn't. Tbh, social media usage is the downfall of most more recent/"woke" celebs today--people need to realize that they really shouldn't have public social media accounts unless they're going to pay a social media team. And even using a private account is dangerous, unless you seriously limit who has access and ensure that your password is changed constantly.

Then there are more serious crimes--actual crimes. Most of your favorites, especially if they are male, especially if they are white and male and of a certain era, have done something fucked. Even the squeaky cleanest of people... just aren't perfect.

The issue that we have in this purity culture is that people don't understand that everyone's threshold is different. For example--I know David Bowie had sex with underage girls. I also do enjoy his music. It's something I have difficulties with. I also love Prince's music, despite him doing the same shit. I can still listen to their music and enjoy it; I am figuring out how to do that while acknowledging what they did and not supporting that, but it's difficult, right? And the threshold is personal; I used to fucking love some Michael Jackson songs, but what I've heard from his victims....... I can't handle that anymore.

However, all of those men? Hugely important to music history, development, and pop culture. No matter what else comes out about them, on top of the other horrid shit, that is literally impossible to change, and that's something a lot of purity police seem to struggle with. It super doesn't matter if you say "DID Y'ALL KNOW THAT PRINCE HAD SEX WITH UNDERAGE GIRLS???? JAIL FOREVER, HOW COULD YOU EVER LISTEN TO PRINCE". The impact has been made. There are artists who wouldn't exist now without Prince, Bowie, MJ--and there are artists who will exist because of those artists, and so on. There are millions of moments that have been made in pop culture and in individual people's lives because of these artists, because of Elvis, and so on. And we can acknowledge this and discuss it and critique it and make an effort to not support artists who still do this shit, but we cannot pretend that these people who did horrible shit didn't shape culture. I'm sorry. We just can't. You'll sit there saying that Bowie is evil and rotting in hell and you'll never support him, and boom--you go to a movie and a Bowie song is playing. A song that would not exist if Bowie hadn't existed is playing.

That's kind of the nature of the game, and always has been. Successful artists make a fuckton of money for their industries, please their patrons, what have you... And so they are given excuses. It super doesn't fucking matter if you like it or not, so how about let's not focus on shaming people for enjoying those artists in a world that encourages them to do so, and we focus on processing what these artists have done and taking steps to ensure that people can't do what they do in the future. I'm not going to beat you up for loving Bowie's music--but I am going to have an issue with you trying to cover up his bad behavior. I'm just not going to be an obnoxious asshole and be like "DIDN'T YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID????" when I fucking know you know what he did.

And the same can be said for historical figures in general by the way. It's not just about music or film or TV, etc.

[ablednt]

I think part of the reason that I kind of hate this culture of keeping track on every bad creator then completely boycotting their work to show that you're a Good Person(tm) is that it's not sustainable.

Like of course you don't want to be giving bad people money and also if their creative work has something seriously wrong within it itself then yeah it makes sense to want to avoid people who enjoy it.

But like the majority of people aren't going to do this and when you make them feel like bad people for not doing it that's how you get shit like a bunch of teenagers on the internet defending johnny depp despite him being a known abuser. Absolutely fucking none of that was because they cared about him it was because they liked his movies and are in the most potent discourse circles alive so they feel like they have to become an abuse apologist to continue enjoying things.

Recently a lot of gross shit is being brought up around Will Wood and instead of being fucking normal about it and just saying "okay his content is good as a creator like his work and that's fine but to respect the victims I won't give him my money or support" everyone feels like to be Good Queers they have to fully purge every trace of him from their playlists and lives and because yeah his songs are really well made and mean a lot to people they don't want to and so now instead of acknowledging this is Their Problem they're goddamn cross investigating the victim's every word to prove them wrong and it's literally so gross like it is NOT your place to do this literally just shut up you can listen to music you like just dont give him hundreds of dollars worth of concert tickets lmao

Like as a survivor it's just weird because the truth is that you can't exile the existence of abuse away. The only thing boycotting is good for is taking away revenue but even then it needs to be organized to do any damage.

If any of my abusers were a popular creator and I came out about the abuse the last thing I'd fucking want is for it to be a fandom issue or for people to suddenly switch to pretending they never supported my abuser/they don't exist. I wouldn't want people dramatically foresaking them to look like better people whilst completely ignoring what the actual situation is. I'd just want idk? Support? Like actual support? And to spread awareness so people know that they Are Not Safe with this person.

Like it's all just literally so ineffective can we just find a better way to handle abuse cases that involve famous people that don't include making Everything about grieving their content like I assure you that's not normal and the fact that now it almost always overshadows the actual victims words and worries is even worse.

[absideon-ephemeral]

III - INFORMANT

Warnings: mild language.

____________

This one is a bit short but worth it. 

METANOIA Master list

_________

     At that moment, I wish I didn't exist.

     The men parted ways, allowing the terrifying Commander through. His footsteps were heavy and threatening as he walked towards the General and me.

     "What's the issue General?" This was the first time I heard his modulated voice, and it was as scary as it was said to be.

     The General did little to show his disgust at being near the Commander, "This technician is working where a confidential meeting is to be held. Unfortunately, she has no other work to attend to and I don't want her just lying around being useless."

     The Commander stared at Hux for a moment then turned to me; the black holes of his mask once again boring into my soul.

     Taking a few more steps towards me, he raises his hand. I brace myself for any type of physical contact, not taking my eyes off of his helmet.

     "You are to stay and continue your work, but you are to not listen to a word said during this meeting," His modulated voice sent a chill down my spine.

     I wanted to reply, but I couldn't. My body was no longer under my control.

     "I will stay and continue my work. I will not listen to a word said during the meeting," I repeated his words against my will. It was like I could no longer control myself, and I just had to watch it all happen through my eyes.

     I turned and went back to work, lying on the floor and wedging myself back into the vent. Once again becoming oblivious to the world.

_____________

     I wasn't sure how long I had been working in the vent. My body was on autopilot the whole time. It could've been a few hours or thirty minutes when I re-emerged. The high-class men, General, and Commander were still sitting at the long meeting table, discussing something intelligible. Any word they said went through one ear and out the other.

     I got up off the ground and went to my tool bag, looking for the necessary items to begin fixing another wiring panel. As I rummaged through my bag, I got a glance at the holo map floating a few inches off the table. I froze; disobeying the hold over me. I knew exactly what that map was, but it wasn't right. I fought against the hold on my mind, eventually breaking it into millions of little pieces. Not knowing that my next words would determine my fate, I spoke.

     "That map is wrong."

     All heads turned towards me. The General's and Commander's stares were harsh.

     "Excuse me?" General Hux asked, his voice laced in venom.

     I gestured at the holo map, "That map is wrong."

     The General, who was standing by the holo controls, was ready to bash and possibly kill me for pointing something out. But before he could speak, someone else spoke.

     "Sit down General." The Commander ordered.

     "But sir, she isn't supposed to -"

     "Sit. Down. General,"

     Hux went and sat, not without a huff of frustration. The Commander bore into me.

     "How?" That was all he asked.

     "Well," I walked over to the controls, "while I have no clue as to what you all were talking about, I do know that this map is incorrect."

     The General scoffed, "How do you know if it's wrong if you don't even know what the map is?"

     "With all due respect, General, I know what this map is. It's a portion of the planet Adoni. A forested planet lush with greenery and an unlimited source of Iadrite. This is the area where one of the main cities is located. Everything on this map is accurate except for two things."

     I point to the eastern side of the city, "One, there should be a small village right where that forest is, and two," I point to the northern side of the mountain near the city, "right here should be the landing pad and entrance of an old abandoned Resistance base. It was up and running during the time of the Empire, but was abandoned shortly after the fall of the Death star."

     I pause; every person at the table is staring at me: some with indifference, surprise, and others (mainly the General) with murderous intent. Clearing my throat, I begin to type into the control panel.

     "That's how the map is wrong, sirs."

     "But that's impossible! We just received this map from the Senator of Adoni today!" The General exclaimed.

     I continued to type, "Well, the Senator, or whoever made the map, lied to you." With a few more clicks, the holo map disappears and is replaced by a similar one. "I was just able to hack into the geographical records of Adoni, speaking of which they need to up their firewalls, but this is what the map should truly look like."

     On the map, right as I said there would be, was a village to the east of the city and a landing dock to the north of the mountain.

     No one spoke. It was as if no one was breathing. They all just stared at me. The Commander, who had been extremely quiet the whole time, spoke.

     "And how do you know all this?" His voice was calm with a hint of interest.

     "I was born there sir. Lived there until I was five then went traveling and learning the galaxy with my father. If you don't believe me, sir, you can check my records."

      "How can we believe you? For all we know, your records may be a fake as well!" Hux accused.

     I was going to speak, going to defend myself, but the prickling sensation returned to my mind. The Commander. He was going through my brain again.

     "She tells the truth. Her mind shows no signs of lying." He states. Hux could do nothing but huff.

     I shift on my feet, "I'm sorry sirs, I've just realized my actions. My input wasn't needed, but whatever you are planning, I didn't want you all to walk into something and get ambushed due to false information.

     "Your insubordination will be punished, little technician. It was not your place to-" The General began but was cut off. He began to cough, clawing at his throat to breathe. He was suffocating. The Commander was now staring at him.

     After a few, agonizing seconds, the General was able to breathe again and the Commander looked to me.

     "Leave, all of you."

     Taking no chance, everyone stood up, hasty to leave. I bowed my head and too began to leave but was stopped.

     "Not you, little technician."

     I fully regret opening my mouth now, he's gonna kill me.

      "I won't kill you. Sit. We have a matter to discuss." 

     I cautiously make my way to a seat at the other end of the table, near the control panel. The seat is still warm when I sit, and the Commander's mask bores into my eyes.

     "You've shown a great deal of knowledge. Had you not pointed it out, my men would have surely walked into something. That being said, you mentioned traveling and studying the galaxy, yes?"

     "Yes sir."

     "Tell me about it."

     His words caught me off guard, "I'm sorry?"

     "Tell me about your travels." He leaned back in his chair.

     "Um, well, I lived on Adoni 'till I was five like I had said, then left and went to Ryloth. I was there for half a year, learned the language, culture, all that, then we picked up again and went to Mandalore. Then Shili, Pillo, Malastare, you name it. I studied every language, every culture, every aspect of that planet. The only planet I haven't been to is Mustafar."

     "Why not Mustafar?"

     "My father said that it was a haunted planet. Full of death and sadness. Told me that sometimes, the ghost of Padme Amidala could be heard; wailing for her husband and children, and would take revenge on any childbearing woman who stepped onto the planet."

     "Interesting. Wouldn't have taken you for someone superstitious.”

     "I'm not. My father was."

     The Commander let out something that sounded like a chuckle, but it was distorted by his helmet. "Why travel?"

     "My father wanted me to be educated on the galaxy. He hoped that one day I may become a royal translator or something. I just wanted to see the world and learn."

     The Commander took a moment to ponder. "Why did you stop?"

     "My father died when I was eighteen. We had just landed on Nevarro when he got sick. Passed a few days later. I had hardly any money, so when the recruitment ship for the first order showed up, it was my only option at the time, so I took it."

     "You could've joined the Resistance."

     "True, true. But the First Order didn't have a vendetta against me, so I went with it."

     "Interesting. What did you do?"

     I rubbed the back of my neck, "Uh, I would rather not talk about it. It's personal. But if you don't mind me asking sir, why the sudden interest in my past? What benefit can you get out of it?" 

     He hummed in acknowledgment, "Well, based on your knowledge and past, I have a proposition for you.

      "Yes, sir?"

     "Be my informant. My diplomatic ambassador. Translator. Your rank would be higher, you'd be in charge of diplomatic missions, treaties, alliances; you'd be the First Order's informant; bringing us more power through alliances and knowledge," he paused, "or you can stay a technician. Live your life fixing broken things; toiling away among metal and screws. The choice is yours."

     My thoughts are running. It's a tempting deal.

     This was what my father wanted me to be.

      But do I want this?

     "So, what will your answer be?" 

     I stayed silent. I didn't know what to say. This could all be some joke and I end up being his informant for a week and then I'm cast off to the side again. But hell, his offer sounded too good to pass up.

     "I don't have all day. What is your answer?"

     A beat of silence.

     "I'll do it."

[thejustmaiden]

Jaken = Rin's Dad?

Okay, is this how a daughter treats their so-called father?

Most definitely not.

Rin and Jaken's relationship clearly screams of your typical sibling rivalry punctuated with cute and silly moments of playful bickering.

Yes, Jaken may technically be her main provider, but that doesn't necessarily equate to him being more of a father than Sesshomaru. If anything, he demonstrates more of a brotherly love towards her. As we all know, parents (which Sesshomaru embodies more based on real life patterns and parallels) will leave their older more capable children in charge of looking after their younger brothers and sisters. In this case, that would mean making Jaken responsible for watching over Rin and protecting her if need be. Ah-Un offers protection, too. Think of it as Jaken as the big brother and Ah-Un as the family dog who are babysitting while Sesshomaru as the parent of the household is away at work or taking care of business. I mean, they literally fit that description to a tee and I'm dying at the accuracy of it all! 🤣👌

[Quick! Someone write up a modern au where Sesshomaru finally gets out to have a nice date night but everything goes wrong in the most spectacular way. Like maybe Rin and Jaken catch a ride on Ah-Un to go spy!]

I recently revisited some episodes from The Final Act, and I couldn't believe how many moments like this there were where Rin got after Jaken or when she would "put him in his place" so to speak. Obviously, all of it is mostly harmless. I was only surprised by how often it occurred, not to mention how Jaken would just stand there and take it. Towards a supposed father figure, Rin's behavior is downright unacceptable. There's a certain level of respect a child is expected to show their parents/guardians, and that's just not what I'm witnessing here between them. Like at all.

Rather their dynamic has the nature of some sibling relationships like I mentioned above. So I really wish fans would stop pretending otherwise, because based on what we know of father-daughter relationships- healthy ones at least- they don't appear anything like what Jaken and Rin have. If you could please provide me other examples of where we've seen similar portrayals in fiction or in real life, then perhaps I can get on board.

Look, that doesn't have to mean that because Jaken isn't her father then Sesshomaru must be. They can both be her caretakers without necessarily filling that traditional father role. I'm just saying that if we're going to start assigning titles to characters, let's make sure we are accurate and truthful in our assessments. If you're going to label anyone Rin's dad, then it needs to be Sesshomaru. Jaken doesn't have precedence over him in terms of fatherly attributes, that just wouldn't make sense.

After all, this isn't about what you want to see, this is about what Rin very likely sees. It's safe to assume that she views Sesshomaru more like a father than she does Jaken. She knows she's safe with him (broadly speaking lol) and that he'll come for her no matter what. That sense of security and comfort is what a child seeks and what they should always feel in a parent's presence. She trusts and even idolizes him, just as a young and innocent child tends to do with their parents. At that age, parents are perfect and could do no wrong in their child's eyes. Idk about you, but this describes perfectly how Rin is around Sesshomaru.

Rin adores him and will follow him anywhere- yes, even into danger! That's what the innocence and unconditional love of a child will bring them to do if necessary. Fortunately, at the end of The Final Act we learn Sesshomaru takes Kaede's advice when he realizes that leaving Rin with her in the village is in her best interests. That way she'd be able to lead a more normal and safer life alongside other humans. Remember, Sessrin shippers, that doesn't mean he wasn't still a part of her life and didn't witness her become a young woman over the years right before his very eyes. Therefore, if they eventually do become romantically involved, then most if not all of those gifts had intimate and seductive intentions and it essentially constitutes as child grooming.

I understand from a Sessrin shipper's point of view why it'd be so much easier to claim Jaken as the father. In doing so, they diminish Sesshomaru's role in her upbringing. By refusing to acknowledge the real role he had in helping raise Rin (short periods can be crucial and impressionable too esp. in a child's early years so yes they did assist in raising her not only Kaede), these shippers are better able to justify how their filial-like relationship evolved into a romantic one. So yeah, I get it, if I were a Sessrin shipper I'd probably do the same. It's one of the more plausible arguments available to them, after all. "Let's pin Jaken as the father to fend off antis!" is the best chance they've got, but even so, it's still not good enough. But if you insist Jaken is indeed like a father to Rin, then Sesshomaru is most certainly one too. Who says she can't have two fathers anyway?

The thing is however much you want to deny or downplay what Sesshomaru truly means to Rin and vice versa, nothing will ever change or hide the truth of the matter. Please, stop acting like they're only traveling companions and nothing more. Some of y'all even go so far as to say that they're like strangers. Knowing potentially little about a person is not equal to a lack of love and affection. Making big assumptions such as this to defend your ship is actually doing you more harm than good. Let me elaborate.

According to your reasoning, if that's all Rin ever was to him was a companion and Sesshomaru had no real attachment to her, then what precisely is the basis of your ship? Recall that Adult!Rin doesn't exist yet, thus we have no real idea what she will be like or if she's even alive. So how can you make comments like that but then go on later to say "they have such a unique and unbreakable bond" or "only Rin can be the mother because she's the only human he ever cared for" if all that time spent traveling together didn't amount to much in the first place like you claimed to believe beforehand? Do you see how your rationalizing is confusing?

Contrary to what some of you may think, I'm not just saying all this because I'm an anti and I'm obligated to disagree with you, or whatever other excuse you want to tell yourself. Believe it or not, I'm attempting to give as unbiased and objective of an analysis I can based on widely accepted interpretations of family dynamics, development, and any history we know of.

Of course I respect that at times fans will perceive things differently since that's bound to happen. What's hard for me to wrap my head around however is the unwillingness of some fans- not exclusively Sessrin shippers- to apply basic common sense and sound judgment to their observations and deductions.

Looking at all our facts, then taking the small handful of scenes Sesshomaru and Rin do share together into account, one can logically conclude that their dynamic is akin to one found in a typical parent-child relationship. If you still fail to recognize Sesshomaru as a parent to Rin, then that's fine too. In the end, that won't really change the fact that he'd still take on a role resembling an adult figure overseeing a young child's care and protection. Be it as a vassal, guardian, what have you. Plus, nobody is saying here that Sesshomaru doesn't make mistakes regarding Rin's general well-being, but so do all parents. Overall, I think the majority of us agree that Rin is in good hands. Whether it's in his direct company or in his occasional supervision from his frequent visits to the village.

In other words, it doesn't really matter what exact title you assign him in relation to Rin, as the distribution of power is all inherently the same with any and all adult-child relationships. That bond never changes once you've established it either, seeing as it's a special kind of connection one can only form with a child and a child alone.

I was a teacher for a few years, and speaking from personal experience, you don't need to be a parent, per se, to take on a role of authority in a child's life. I know without a doubt that I could never and will never view any of those kids I taught in a sexual/romantic light later down the road; yes, not even once they become grown-ups who are independent and more than capable of making their own decisions. Those of you who disagree are usually missing the whole point though, because we're not trying to dictate what Adult!Rin can and cannot do like many tend to accuse of us doing. This isn't a question of taking away from her autonomy nor does it fall under "purity culture," which is why people shouldn't continue jumping to these outrageous conclusions and really listen for a change. You're deflecting from the real issue here when you choose to misinterpret what we're saying by ignoring the problem we're actually referring to. You cannot present a valid counter-argument if you persist in twisting our words.

Bottom line: once these kids become old enough to pursue a sexual/romantic relationship, of course they have that right if they're ready. All we're trying to say is you guys ought to stop pushing forward this it's-completely-normal-to-want-to-bang-your-adoptive-dad-since-you're-an-adult-and-can-do-as-you-please agenda and not expect backlash. Ship it if you want, but please stop acting like their romance would be the epitome of a pure and healthy relationship.

Sesshomaru may not wear his heart on his sleeve, but it's foolish to presume he didn't actually care about Rin during their whole time together just because he didn't openly express his feelings until the very end. Surely everybody can comprehend that people handle and process their emotions differently. The way Sesshomaru chooses to is completely valid for the most part, so let's cut him some slack regarding this already.

What I'm trying to get at is that any child whose life you played an influential role in will always be a kid in a lot ways to you even when they're old and wrinkly. Just as they will always picture you as the loved one who guided and protected them when they were most vulnerable and couldn't always fend for themselves. Can't we relate this to children we know personally and apply it accordingly?

Finally, I want to end on this note. Could you kindly take a look at these two images below for a second?

The reason I ask is because of something I recently read that's relevant to the topic. There was this pro-sessrin tweet I saw that stated Rin trying to take care of Sesshomaru when they first met is what a mom would do for a child, which in their opinion, translates to Rin being more like a mother than a daughter if anything.

First off: are you freaking kidding me????

Seriously, so now children aren't allowed to tend to their sick or injured parents?! Parents are apparently superhuman and shouldn't be offered a helping hand from a child, even if they mean well and want to help their parent who's in pain?? Now this Twitter user was mostly being a smartass, but at the same time, it was evident they genuinely thought they offered a valid enough point that warranted no further explanation or clarification.

Secondly, by saying this Sessrin fans don't seem to realize that in actuality they're contradicting themselves and proving the point we've been trying to make all along. Glancing at the first picture and moving down to the second, the role of the one being cared for and the caretaker is reversed. So then by their own logic, Sesshomaru IS in fact like a father to Rin.

What it comes down to is the names you give to the roles these characters play aren't as crucial as the dynamic they share. The specific characteristics of that dynamic are what define the importance of said role, not so much the name in the role itself. So real father or not, Sesshomaru and Rin clearly mean a lot to each other. Close relationships are defined and solidified by the devotion and belonging they have to one another, not solely by the duration of time spent together and their proximity.

Well, that's a wrap! I hope you guys got something outta this blog, and that you enjoyed or found some portions of it interesting. I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject from this fandom, but only engage in conversation if you plan to be respectful. Thank you!

[kanmom51]

Okay, this is for the anon that talked about JK kissing Hobi's neck and Tae kissing JK's nape.

Read this: https://kookie-min-monster.tumblr.com/post/638250685975216128/kpop-shipping-skinship

This talks about skinship, shipping, and fanservice. Personally, I found this post very informative and helpful when trying to navigate through all of what Kpop boy bands are and what is normal skinship between male friends in SK.

I am not saying that any of the shit the anon listed is fanservice. However, context does matter a lot. I would also like to state that it's not our problem if you can't see what we are seeing. We aren't here to convert or control you. We are here in a space where we share opinions and perspectives on the lives of BTS and KM. Your opinion is just as valid as mine as long as it stays respectful.

I do remember seeing that Hobi does kiss the maknae line a lot. JK reciprocates that because he is one of the most tactile members in the group, imo. Also, I remember hearing that Tae licked Jin on his cheek at a concert? I remember seeing photos. Tae has also kissed Jin on the face during RUN if I am not mistaken. Tae has asked JM to give his ass a massage because it was sore from horseback riding, which JM then proceeds to do. Jin and Hobi have accidentally kissed each other on the cheek and then cringed over it. JK used to come to Hobi and JM's room. A lot. So much so that they started teasing him about it. The boys have also stated that they used to shower together to save time and money. I could go on and on about the boundaries these boys did not and still do not have with each other. And wow, would you look at that! It is all types of skinship between the boys that they don't think is weird. If they don't think it is weird, then neither should we. We have to take their culture into hand when considering these moments.

However, I agree with Kanmom. She says it is all about the intimacy. And the knowing of irrelevant shit about each other that the other members don't know. It's the casual dropping of honorifics between JK and JM (I also love the fact that this has been going on for a while. A long while. Yet, people don't acknowledge it. I think people went gaga over JK saying Yoongi's name without honorifics. And yet where is the same hype for KM? Crickets, yay!). The video JK made for JM and his other GCFs. While JM may not be a big focus, he is definitely highlighted and made special by JK. How about the Rosebowl thing? Also, don't even compare that to the other shit that happened when they where younger and had absolutely no context. Rosebowl was something very emotional and I feel like JK made a statement. Don't take photos of a younger Tae biting a younger JK's ear as if it is something that can downplay what happened that night. Jeez.

KMers could go on and on about how much intimacy KM have about them. How much information KM have about each other that the others don't know. The amount of time they spend together outside of work, when they don't have to! The amount of time they spend together in BTS content like behind the scenes.

And yet, we can't force someone to see something they don't want to acknowledge. It's there for everyone to see and people still try to generalize these moments without considering other information. I see all the time that X member did this with Y member. And Y member did that with Z member. And as a result, it doesn't make it special since they all do it to each other. I hate this generalization btw. Peeves me off all the time.

We won't keep trying to a wall who won't try to listen to what we are trying to tell them. That's a you issue not an us issue. Have a nice day 😊

Yes, exactly.

[lesbiansandgayssupporttheminers]

I couldn't help but take a peek at twitter to see what the discourse was. Needless to say, I don't feel better for it...

The Internet can be a wonderful thing when it comes to the exchange of ideas and being able to engage with people and experiences we otherwise might never encounter. It can also be a shitshow, particularly when we're inclined to believe we all share the *exact* same frames of reference, and are determined to express our views in pithy soundbites and put downs.

So far as I read through the tweets (which wasn't much since it was quite maddening), it seemed to be Americans defining Irish Travellers in terms of their whiteness, disregarding (or oblivious to) the long history of the persecution of the various traveller communities throughout Europe (including genocide). Thing is, this would make total sense in terms of the *American* experience. Of course, part of the issue is that America isn't the world.

Whiteness, Blackness and the (fallacious) hierarchy of races was, however, invented *by Europeans* in order to justify colonisation, imperialism, genocide and the enslavement of Black people. Xenophobia has always existed, but this new paradigm shifted things, so that in the context of the Americas, disparate European communities could, eventually, be brought together under the umbrella of 'whiteness'. The same is also true of Australia and New Zealand. We're talking about countries that very literally had policies explicitly encouraging migration from right across Europe in order to counter the perceived 'threat' of being 'outnumbered' by Black, indigenous and Asian people.

Within Europe, the exact same racist hierachy still holds, but with more 'bigot nuances' regarding the different white communities. So, Traveller communities absolutely experience discrimination based on their ethnicity within Europe (in a way that they might not in the Americas). I find it hard to imagine anyone in Europe saying otherwise, unless they were being deliberately disingenuous.

There's a whole lot of subtlety to this that most people won't have the time, experience or inclination to deal with eg: as a Black person, I've definitely experienced racism at an interpersonal level from Travellers utilising their 'whiteness'. On the other hand, as a settled person, I can often (though not always...) benefit from the institutions that are structurally discriminatory towards Travellers

Anyway, bottom line is that if you want to blame anyone for this, blame all the crazed eugenicist imperialist maniacs who invented an evil social construct simply to flatter their own egos and justify an otherwise unjustifiable expansionist project. Race is a complete fiction that has profound, real world consequences

I really appreciate your persepective on this, and the time you’ve put into it.

I would just also add that Travellers are still at risk of forced assimilation, in a way that I don’t think applies to any other culture in the UK. There are (lots?) of politicians who would really like Traveller culture to cease to exist, and few I believe are absolutely working towards it (Douglass Ross, leader of the Scottish Conservatives) for example.

I’m willing to be corrected on this, but I don’t think other minority cultures in the UK are under threat in quite the same way? I know there is a lot of pressure on immigrants to assimilate, though. And it’s not that long ago that traveller children were actively removed from their parents and placed in the care system, but equally I’m sure this happened to children from other minority groups, and I’m just not aware of it.

I also think that Travellers face systemic barriers in a way that other groups don’t, in that the assumption in e.g. higher education, is pretty much that Travellers won’t be present in the room. During my PGCE, I had a friend who was an English Traveller, and she found it really hard to listen to discussions of GRT children that assumed no GRT people were present. And she often had the difficult decision of “outing” herself in front of people who were clearly racist, or staying silent and denying her own identity.

I also think the OP of the original tweet lives in Ireland, and my understanding is that discrimination against travellers is still fairly active in Ireland- that it wouldn’t be unusual to see shops or pubs, for example, which explicitly bar travellers, in a way that wouldn’t be allowed with other groups.

I absolutely agree that Travellers can benefit from being “white passing” and do sometimes leverage that in racist ways, but I think it’s really important to acknowledge that Travellers are also marginalised in ways which I don’t think apply to other groups (but I am more than happy to be corrected on this).

I wonder if it would help people from the US to consider it as travellers being essentially a displaced indigenous people?

[punkscowardschampions]

Sick Kids

ihatemyguts: Hey, who's about today? brainpain: 👀 brainpain: 👃 brainpain: 👅 ihatemyguts: Uncanny brainpain: I know ihatemyguts: Artistic endeavors keeping you busy? brainpain: [a selfie of her dramatic 🌈 makeup aesthetic] ihatemyguts: Okay but I'm gonna need a tutorial ihatemyguts: I never even mastered lipstick brainpain: I'll hook you up brainpain: check your private msgs ihatemyguts: 👍🙏 ihatemyguts: if my face is gonna be 🌚 from now on, it should really look pretty ihatemyguts: #juststeroidthings brainpain: it's a good face brainpain: + if I can rock a half shaved head with my brainpain: 👀 brainpain: 👃 brainpain: 👅 brainpain: not a time to still be alive brainpain: LMAO ihatemyguts: no doubt you rocked it so well everyone thought it was a choice brainpain: you gotta act like you're starting a 🌚 worshipping cult brainpain: I'll do a tutorial for that brainpain: full face of silver ihatemyguts: I can get down with that ihatemyguts: 🙌��🩸🐺🙌 ihatemyguts: am here on a bit of a recruitment mission, actually brainpain: my housemates & I are all synced 🩸 wise so you'd be doing me a favour, newbie brainpain: living battle royale over here brainpain: not trying to recruit you to fight to the death by my side though, we're good brainpain: what's the job? ihatemyguts: That sounds delightful, man ihatemyguts: also lowkey how has that never happened, not even with my ma ihatemyguts: clearly just that cold and standoffish she's like nah ihatemyguts: maybe I should wait 'til Zach is here too 'cos it was kinda his idea but if I give cred now, we're all good and I can take the blame if it's a big nope brainpain: you're still a 👶 not even gonna be synced with yourself yet brainpain: hold up I'll drag him by his curls brainpain: out there having a life like a real boy 😤 ihatemyguts: 😂 ihatemyguts: he'll get tricked into going to a weird Funland island and get turned into a donkey for his crimes, it's okay brainpain: sounds lit brainpain: [inandout has entered the chat] inandout: 🤥 ihatemyguts: How's your conscience? ihatemyguts: 🦗🦗🦗 inandout: 💎 clear ihatemyguts: 🤨 suspect inandout: you're not my wine mum inandout: or vodka aunt ihatemyguts: How rude ihatemyguts: Put some respect on your cult leader inandout: 🙇🙏 inandout: no food offerings ihatemyguts: safe bet gotspoons: 👋 I'm here! gotspoons: having a great day today, actually got energy, whaaaa?! 😲🤭 inandout: quick! float the idea while she's on cloud 9 gotspoons: You make me sound like an ogre, Zach 😜 gotspoons: what's going on? brainpain: Princess ogre ihatemyguts: Fiona ihatemyguts: v chic ihatemyguts: anyway, as we're all 👍 besides battle royale 🩸 ihatemyguts: we was thinking, and talking 'bout, a potential meetup ihatemyguts: thought we'd float it, see what y'all 💭 brainpain: I've got a 🍳 I'm 👍 + in ihatemyguts: which princess is that? one with crazy long hair, I 👀 it ihatemyguts: it could be cool, yeah? and why not, we'd have to make sure everyone who wants to can obvs or what's the point but apart from that brainpain: Princess me, unless the bleach makes it all fall out 😬 brainpain: [a very her style location] 📌🌎 inandout: we're not doing it there gotspoons: This is the problem, guys 😩 gotspoons: it would be really awesome but there is SO much planning you'd have to do to make it safe for everyone gotspoons: and picking a place for everyone that meets all the requirements inandout: we're willing to do all that inandout: planning + safety stuff ihatemyguts: totally ihatemyguts: like we could even go to a park or somewhere totally neutral ihatemyguts: or see if we can find some council-owned hall or something, 'cos places like that HAVE to be accessible ihatemyguts: I don't mind calling around and I bet Rich knows lots, and you will think of ALL the ways to keep EVERYONE safe and happy, right Rosie? brainpain: where I used to have support group would actually work brainpain: [a decent location that's like a community centre of something] ihatemyguts: 🙌 that looks legit ihatemyguts: if we explain what we're tryna do, bet they won't even charge us brainpain: I've got a hook up as ⭐ pupil brainpain: had my pick of those circle of chairs tigerbalm: 🙀🙀🙀🙀 tigerbalm: are we REALLY going to be able to meet up in person?! inandout: possibly gotspoons: How are we going to do this, IF we can gotspoons: you have to think about food and drink and seating and how we'd cover that, even if they did give us the venue for free inandout: I'm great with funds, it's assumed and expected gotspoons: but is that fair? gotspoons: I know some of us have none or very little inandout: I won't charge any of you a fee to come through the doors inandout: not that Jewish gotspoons: Oh, Zach! ihatemyguts: 🤑 is an accessibility issue, this should be a service, it should exist for free ihatemyguts: but it doesn't ihatemyguts: so if we can do this for ourselves, and offer it for free, for as little expense as possible ihatemyguts: maybe people will pull their finger out and consider actually doing their job ihatemyguts: you can write about it on your blog, get the word out brainpain: I'll fund-raise on stream, I've got your backs, nerds ihatemyguts: Right? High🖐 ihatemyguts: it's for US, so all of us that can, will put money into it ihatemyguts: no pressure on the ones that can't, fuck that, if anyone is gonna be that arsehole then they aren't welcome, yeah? tigerbalm: my parents have a people carrier, cos of course they do, but my creepy uncle won't be invited if any of y'all need rides ihatemyguts: 🤩🤩🤩 gotspoons: I'm going to do some research gotspoons: A LOT of research gotspoons: I would hate for anything to happen to anyone is this group tigerbalm: Where's Rich? tigerbalm: he would love to be on the front lines about this gotspoons: He would be a big help gotspoons: I feel like he had a uni thing today, an open day or something like that??? gotspoons: ugh my memory letting me down AS PER tigerbalm: how exciting! tigerbalm: I'll have to quiz him when he shows gotspoons: I know! gotspoons: He always checks in though, he'll be here later brainpain: Moving on, for those of us too brain damaged for further education gotspoons: 😔 brainpain: just me & my raging hormones LOL brainpain: he'll be such a happy nerd gotspoons: that's for sure gotspoons: he'll probably know so many answers to our questions already enablednotdisabled: I thought this group existed in lieu of an in-person group? brainpain: sup dude, it does enablednotdisabled: wouldn't it be potentially exclusionary to take this offline then? enablednotdisabled: realistically, there will be some of us who simply cannot get there inandout: if you wanna get there, we'll make it happen inandout: facetime you in if nothing else works enablednotdisabled: I'm not talking for myself, just others who might not feel confident enough to inandout: collective "you" inandout: we've all got phones enablednotdisabled: I just feel like this group can be quite us vs. them at times enablednotdisabled: hard to get heard if you aren't in the core group tigerbalm: There isn't a core group tigerbalm: everyone is listened to & respected enablednotdisabled: With all due respect, you are a part of it enablednotdisabled: so, of course, you feel that way enablednotdisabled: I'm not suggesting you can't break off and do your own thing, but the main chat of this forum that is meant to be for all of us, isn't the place for it brainpain: this group is what you make it, man brainpain: + the main chat brainpain: hit us with a topic you wanna talk about whenever inandout: it was brought up here so everyone knows they're invited ihatemyguts: I'm new and everyone I've found has been really receptive and welcoming to whatever I've had to say ihatemyguts: it sucks that you've not had that experience yourself but no one here is excluding you right now, least of all Robyn enablednotdisabled: There's a definite atmosphere here, whether you want to acknowledge it or not enablednotdisabled: the guidelines of what is expected and what is acceptable need to be clearer enablednotdisabled: and the moderators, who I've never actually witnessed in chat, should be quicker to put people on the right track, making this more therapeutic/beneficial to all, ban people if necessary brainpain: If you 🔎 hard enough for an atmosphere, it's findable brainpain: when you come in with a definite attitude of your own that's not gonna help none gotspoons: There's no need for us to have an argument, this is supposed to be a positive space gotspoons: if you have a complaint you'd like to make @enablednotdisabled, there is a link to contact the mods directly gotspoons: but I'd be happy to talk to you, privately if you'd prefer, and then we can take it from there? enablednotdisabled: I can handle my own complaints, thanks enablednotdisabled: and this isn't a positive space for me, and plenty other people I've talked to gotspoons: It hurts me to hear that, I'm really sorry and steps do need to be taken to attempt to rectify that then handicapable: I agree, it's cliquey here, unless you're one of the 'popular kids' or core group as @enablednotdisabled said, nobody cares handicapable: @ihatemyguts may be new but her finding a way in doesn't mean the walls aren't there for the rest of us handicapable: I barely log in any more gotspoons: Then let's tackle this culture head on gotspoons: do either of you have suggestions on how we could go about that, so I'm not dominating the conversation handicapable: You're not the one who dominates the conversation ihatemyguts: Don't think we need to @ people with specific comments like that ihatemyguts: not speaking for myself brainpain: @ me, baby brainpain: At least then I could defend myself brainpain: 🤐 though ihatemyguts: You've got the floor, like tigerbalm: It's not a safe space for Lauren if she can't say what she wants to say at risk of being accused of dominating the chat tigerbalm: either you want people to feel listened to or you don't ihatemyguts: And yeah, I am new, but I know Lauren, or anyone else in the chat rn, would not shoot you down if you wanted to change topic enablednotdisabled: It's about who always seems to be dictating the topic enablednotdisabled: we could change it, but then you feel like an interloper ihatemyguts: The conversation has to start somewhere, by someone ihatemyguts: @handicapable admitted to barely logging in now, of course the people who are here more will talk more, that's a given, it doesn't mean you're not allowed to contribute or come in to the convo ihatemyguts: there's no way to avoid that...prompts? mods only? that's not natural, or practical inandout: bible quotes inandout: 1 Peter 5:10 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Why are we quoting scripture? inandout: Lauren's been here for like 2 years but suddenly she's a disruptive force tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Well that's bullshit tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: unless you're a incel on her stream brainpain: you know me brainpain: how was your open day, babe? brainpain: (unless I'm a domineering b word for asking) tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Decent, despite the fact no one was expecting the wheelchair kid tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: despite the fact I called ahead tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: you can dominate me all you want but let me catch up with this apparent shitstorm I've missed brainpain: what a sexy proposition brainpain: I knew I'd missed you enablednotdisabled: Right, that's that conversation over then enablednotdisabled: 👌 brainpain: come on, man ihatemyguts: This is ridiculous ihatemyguts: people have formed meaningful relationships here, they're not allowed to acknowledge that in case someone feels left out, if you've talked to plenty of other people about the state of this forum, then clearly you've formed deeper bonds with them too ihatemyguts: no one here begrudges you that ihatemyguts: you're bound to get on with certain people over others, there's nothing discriminatory about that, it's to be expected tigerbalm: Like, are we supposed to take everything to PMs now? Cos I wanna hear about Rich's open day too but maybe he doesn't wanna type everything out to separate people lots of separate times ihatemyguts: ^You're just being rude, for the sake of it ihatemyguts: Rosie has offered to privately message about this, or you can put it all in an email to the mods tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Okay tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: literally, 'we' (I'll include myself in this core group that you see, even if I don't see that as a valid argument), have done nothing to you two, have never excluded either of you tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: everyone here is welcoming, and was welcoming you before your complaints tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: which aren't rooted in anything I can see as factual tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: what's the actual issue here? you're just hitting out buzzwords handicapable: and you're just jumping to the defence of the girl you like flirting with brainpain: Whoa now! That's not all I am in here tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: See, that's multiple times you've personally made jabs at Lauren tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: none of us have made any comments on you two personally tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: it seems like you're more cliquey than us if you can't see her as a valued member of the group brainpain: I'm not gonna leave cos you want on Rich for being hot af brainpain: shoutout to the new girl for letting that be known though tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Thank you, m'dear (somewhere between 🎩 and 🧢) tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: but thanks for implying I'm so desperate that I'd flirt with a girl I'd never seen before @handicapable tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: things are not quite that bad, I can assure you inandout: we're all that desperate, where have we heard that before? inandout: @normal people tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: and we don't deserve any relationships that are deeper than strictly clinical and professional inandout: which is why we don't need to talk to any one person more than once tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Shout your grievances into the void and move on tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: but don't be too depressing about it ihatemyguts: This group doesn't work, you're right, just not for the reasons you're giving ihatemyguts: but we're all welcome to do what we must about making it work, even if I disagree with yours personally ihatemyguts: at least we try, and if you view us as an 'us' then you also view yourself as a group ihatemyguts: which isn't how I see it, or it's meant to be ihatemyguts: it's a group as a whole inandout: I wanted to organise a meet up to make things cooler inandout: sometimes you don't wanna shout shit into the void inandout: you wanna look someone in the eye when you're talking to them inandout: so you don't have to feel othered ihatemyguts: ^^ inandout: I get to do things with all my other friends inandout: that's what you guys are tigerbalm: I don't have other friends, I'm not saying it to make anyone 😿 tigerbalm: but I don't tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: you've got us tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: and we don't need to apologize for being friends tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: and I think meeting up is a really good idea, I'll be happy to help brainpain: It's okay, Robyn, none of us have done anything wrong gotspoons: I've contacted the moderators, I'll let you know when I get a response brainpain: I did too ✌️ gotspoons: Good, everyone who feels they need to, should gotspoons: I'm glad your open-day went well, Rich brainpain: me too, hot 🤓 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Thanks, guys tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: it's got potential tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: once I get there and make some changes, of course tigerbalm: 🙌 You go, Rich! 🧡 tigerbalm: not to use a banned word but you do inspire me for when I get to uni myself tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: We'll allow it, well I will because I love a compliment tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: and you'll be great when you do tigerbalm: I hope my parents won't make me stay local tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: If you don't want to, you shouldn't tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: don't let anything stop you tigerbalm: I'll try not to tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: when you need them, I can throw all the resources and info at you tigerbalm: thanks brainpain: Can we talk about me now cos that's the ONLY reason I'm here LMAO ihatemyguts: @Zach, gonna come at her with your famous line? inandout: you've built it up now ihatemyguts: 🙄 ugh, baby inandout: are we at pet names? cool ihatemyguts: 😂 shut up ihatemyguts: but don't, all voices welcome inandout: yours is dragon ball z inandout: for today ihatemyguts: romantic ihatemyguts: we're meant to be talking about Lauren inandout: Lauren's is low blow ihatemyguts: got a real talent, kid ihatemyguts: may as well do the entire group inandout: wouldn't wanna exclude anyone ihatemyguts: 😏 ihatemyguts: no one will be devastated about that, trust me inandout: damn inandout: or dang ihatemyguts: is that another group rule I've shamelessly flouted? 😬 brainpain: It's a me rule, dragon ball brainpain: you're safe in this safe space ihatemyguts: I'll do my best to mind my Ps & Qs ihatemyguts: 🤞 brainpain: you're fine I'm just aware of my 👵 status brainpain: don't wanna spook the 👶s ihatemyguts: thoughtful ihatemyguts: 👌 brainpain: who knew? brainpain: check me out, not being a huge b word ihatemyguts: honestly, disappointing brainpain: @ my exes ihatemyguts: they aren't here, are they ihatemyguts: @fibro not included brainpain: only my next brainpain: when I snag Rich for myself brainpain: gotta tame that playboy ihatemyguts: so many 💔💔💔 @ this news brainpain: long as you're not brainpain: he's too old for you, babe tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: I feel used tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: and yes, much too 👴 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: be your ex-husband at this rate brainpain: I'm not gonna say, you can use me too, in front of the children brainpain: but mutual love & respect, boy tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Shocking behaviour, Mrs brainpain: asking for discipline would also be over the line, sir gotspoons: OKAY gotspoons: putting a stop to this convo thank you gotspoons: 😳 gotspoons: 😳 gotspoons: 😳 gotspoons: 😳 gotspoons: have I covered it? brainpain: g dang it, Rich! Have I not been involved in enough controversy for one day? brainpain: turn away from me, you sexy beast gotspoons: you're very cute but terrible gotspoons: ogre princess putting her foot down on this one tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: I'll take the blame tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: rushing to your defense again brainpain: 😍 ihatemyguts: sure wish someone would run in and change the topic ihatemyguts: it's like mum and dad have had too much 🍷 inandout: could be a prime time for you to ask Robbie on your first date, dbz ihatemyguts: Oh yeah! 💡 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: 💘 is in the air tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: careful, Zach ihatemyguts: Robyn, have you decided what you're gonna wear to your party yet? tigerbalm: I have a moodboard tigerbalm: would you like to see it? ihatemyguts: Um, absolutely tigerbalm: [that moodboard] ihatemyguts: So, you'd be up for going into town to try-on stuff, right? ihatemyguts: I can think of some shops with some unique stuff tigerbalm: 😺!!! ihatemyguts: Is that a yes 😺 or a I'm calling the police 😺? tigerbalm: I'd love to tigerbalm: my parents might call the police though ihatemyguts: that's alright, I've given you a fake name tigerbalm: they would think so tigerbalm: but their name choices are pretty boring ihatemyguts: at least you've got a super cute name ihatemyguts: if it'd make them feel better though, I'll come meet them or whatever tigerbalm: oh thanks x2 tigerbalm: that's so nice ihatemyguts: 'course ihatemyguts: who doesn't like shopping? inandout: I don't inandout: that much ihatemyguts: that'll be why you didn't ask yourself inandout: I would never third wheel your date inandout: very uncool ihatemyguts: well, if anyone does wanna come along, that'd be alright brainpain: happy to invite myself into any convo or situation ihatemyguts: 🤓 or 😎 ihatemyguts: you could do our makeup ihatemyguts: because not joking about the trainwreck it is when I do ihatemyguts: 🤡 not the theme brainpain: to avoid a spooky 🤡 resurge brainpain: I shall gotspoons: 😱😱😱😱 gotspoons: I hate clowns tigerbalm: SAME! my brothers love the 🤡🎈 films but I can't watch 🙀 gotspoons: Nooooooo gotspoons: even the advert was scary tigerbalm: ever since I went to the 🎪🐘🤡🍿 as a child I'm like traumatised inandout: once I got dragged along when my parents went shopping for a sofa and there was a clown there inandout: as a mascot or something gotspoons: 😭 THAT'S HORRIFYING inandout: fever dreams are made of this inandout: he kept trying to ruffle my hair ihatemyguts: definitely a bad omen ihatemyguts: that clown was there to warn you about...something inandout: I'm not classing it as a date though, you still get to go first inandout: the warning'll simply be my impending death ihatemyguts: your first bad omen ihatemyguts: n'awh inandout: cute, right? ihatemyguts: 🐭 🐹 🐰 inandout: 🐿🦔 ihatemyguts: 🦄 brainpain: sure, I'll chaperone you two brainpain: ✨ ihatemyguts: result brainpain: arms length, Zachary gotspoons: I feel like I'm on a dating site brainpain: there'd be way more fibros if we were gotspoons: I've never even attempted to date gotspoons: such a minefield brainpain: if you change your mind, I'll get my sister to list off which ones to avoid brainpain: she feeds me a new spooky story weekly gotspoons: see, it's bad enough without the added 'who I am' drama brainpain: get yourself a love interest with more 🚑💊💉 drama than you, that's what I do brainpain: you're the chill one by comparison gotspoons: Rich is still here lurking, you know 🤭 brainpain: he knows what we have is deep + meaningful tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: 👌 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: very serious brainpain: I'm coaching Rosie for her first venture into dating not discussing our lengthy but ultimately doomed love affair tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: doomed because 💀💀 or doomed because someone will join the group with ultimate 🚑💊💉 drama and better hair? brainpain: @Zach with that death clock bs brainpain: doomed cos you'll meet a hot 🤓 at uni brainpain: nobody has better hair than either of us tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Okay then, I won't be pre-offended and call you out on that nonsense brainpain: that isn't a promise that you'll still have time for me brainpain: we're all waiting, Rich tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: depends how hot and how nerdy this university girl is, of course brainpain: Profess your undying love for me or get out, honestly tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: 😏 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Rosie will shut it down again brainpain: 😉 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: She's a hater 💔 gotspoons: 😱 Rich! gotspoons: I'm very supportive brainpain: LOL gotspoons: 😥 gotspoons: I love love brainpain: you're a 🧸 brainpain: I love you, Rosemary brainpain: feel free to ignore my husband gotspoons: I ❤️ 🧡 💛 💚 💙 💜 you all too gotspoons: even if you test my nerves sometimes, it's only in a good way 😅 tigerbalm: So, if one of us had  a 'normal' crush, would that be doomed? tigerbalm: asking for a friend 😳 gotspoons: OF COURSE NOT gotspoons: you're beautiful gotspoons: spill spill! tigerbalm: there isn't much to say except his running route goes past my house tigerbalm: we've 👋 at each other but no conversation has happened gotspoons: HOW EXCITING ihatemyguts: You've gotta talk to him ihatemyguts: such a meet-cute tigerbalm: I have no idea what I would say ihatemyguts: a hello to go with the 👋 to start ihatemyguts: you'll know what to do tigerbalm: a 'how are you?' to follow but what then? ihatemyguts: something like...you run this route often? ihatemyguts: do you run anywhere else? ihatemyguts: are you single? tigerbalm: 🐱 gotspoons: Oh! gotspoons: What does he look like? gotspoons: Can you take a picture? gotspoons: No, perhaps not gotspoons: I've got snap happy now 😅 tigerbalm: I'll try if I can do it without anyone else noticing tigerbalm: it's okay if my cat judges me, but no humans tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: I cannot officially endorse this behaviour, ladies tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: but I'm sure he would be very flattered and consider himself lucky, Robyn tigerbalm: Oh Rich, you're such a big softie 😸 brainpain: LMAO brainpain: forget the boy, I want pics of your cat tigerbalm: [cat pics] 🧡 inandout: that is a potentially judgemental looking moggy, be careful tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: girl or boy? tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: he or she is very distinguished looking, I feel tigerbalm: me & my mum were feeling outnumbered, so she got adopted too tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: fight the power ✊ tigerbalm: I have rabbits too but they would probably encourage me, they're pretty naughty tigerbalm: for fairness tigerbalm: [rabbit pics] brainpain: I had 🐭🐭 as a kid brainpain: LOVED those critters brainpain: [picture of kiddo Lauren with mice on her shoulders] ihatemyguts: I wish I was allowed pets with fur ihatemyguts: scales only inandout: I'm not either inandout: my brother's allergic ihatemyguts: maybe we have the same brother ihatemyguts: slightly concerned now inandout: yours isn't as old as mine, we know that inandout: unless some kind of freaky time loop or something has happened ihatemyguts: I'm you in a parallel universe inandout: before I agree to co-sign, do you have any pets with scales? ihatemyguts: 🐉 🐲 inandout: cool inandout: I accept our parallel lives ihatemyguts: [pics of your dragons 'cos probably have one each lowkey] inandout: if I'm the only petless one in the "core" I will have to hang my head ihatemyguts: you can have joint custody ihatemyguts: don't worry inandout: pet names + a pet share? What a day ihatemyguts: v generous inandout: I'm making that discovery ihatemyguts: 🎁🔍 inandout: I wish we were doing a treasure hunt inandout: that's gonna be date 4 ihatemyguts: challenge accepted ihatemyguts: you gotta find the treasure outside then rehide it though ihatemyguts: more fun inandout: rules accepted ihatemyguts: if you happen to find 💰💎🏺🧭🔮🧿📿 then we'll bury it inandout: what happens if I find a 🗝? ihatemyguts: #5 finding the 🚪 or 🔓 it fits brainpain: Wait, how many dates am I chaperoning you 👶🤓s for? brainpain: gotta find a ✏️ to write this down ihatemyguts: technically, Zach wants to wait 'til he's not 🔞 ihatemyguts: unless you're well dedicated to protect and serve ihatemyguts: also plenty of time to lose that 📄 inandout: don't listen to her, the first date is Robbie's party and we've all 📅 ihatemyguts: might be a double date ihatemyguts: 💃🏃 tigerbalm: I'm so happy that you're both coming! tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Of course they're not missing the event of the season tigerbalm: 😸😺 tigerbalm: I better plan some more tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: It is your forte tigerbalm: compliments are yours tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: and hair tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: humility, less so brainpain: I can vouch for that being why we're soulmates tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: it's the way you can dominate a conversation tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: like a girl with something to say brainpain: 😏 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Tease brainpain: you'd be into it if I were tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: now she speaks 🤫 tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: If Rosie isn't sleeping she'll be 😖 brainpain: I know how to behave, you're the bad influence here tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Gladly take that reputation tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: much worse could be said about me brainpain: catch that 2nd wave of drama when the haters log back in tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: I hope so brainpain: only cos you missed the kick off tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: Not taking politics for nothing brainpain: they can 🔫 @ me if it means you get your 🎓 babe tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: long as I can 🛡 without being fibro about it brainpain: you did tooexhaustedtolivevicariously: 👍 gotspoons: I was thinking gotspoons: maybe if we make more boards for specific topics, that would be better? gotspoons: then the chat could be just that, a casual chat that isn't necessarily disability related but us related, as people gotspoons: what do you guys think? brainpain: I'm in inandout: me too inandout: I was gonna make a similar suggestion but it was my last idea that started everything earlier gotspoons: It's not your fault, Zach gotspoons: I just need to do some admin, update the site tigerbalm: I can help if you need any gotspoons: Thanks, Robbie