#this is like the most batjokes comic for me

[syresdcthings]

People ashamed of shipping brutal Batjokes... dont be. Its amazing.

I just decided to rebinge some comics and holy shit. I never processed just how fucked up Joker was in his early days, and he was still working out all his kinks. He wasn't making these big flashy plans to get Batmans attention, no, this was when he was truly killing for the purpose of wanting to.

Brave and the bold (2023) is a good example for what I'm trying to show here. The shit Joker does in that is crazy and it goes in DETAIL.

I mean he beats the living crap out of Batman, since he's also figuring out his own act at this point. Everyone is clearly petrified of this guy and Batman should just wanna throw him into a dingy cell to suffer for the crap he did. But he doesn't want to! Instead, he finds himself trying to find that high from the altercation at the bridge again, the one where he was trembling in his armour and death was staring right at him.

Joker didn't fall inlove first. Batman did.

Bruce doesn't just want Joker to suffer, he wants to suffer with him. He wants them to fight, to roll around on cold wet concrete and claw at eachother until they are both red and it'll be the most intimate thing Batman has experienced. Being smothered with someone else's blood, a body underneath him, breath just as laboured as his own.

And he'd lean down, probably. Checking his heartbeat, as if he couldn't see he was alive from the way his pupils grew 10 sizes. And then he'd relax his muscles, but it'd be such a little change you wouldn't be able to tell, but Joker would. And he'd push the Bat off of him, and he'd run away, and it'd start all over again.

Edit: just wanted to say that the, "Being smothered with someone elses blood, body underneath him, breath just as laboured as his own." Segment was supposed to be read like "Being drenched in the blood of a body underneath me that is still alive and breathing just as hard as i am." As in, Batman takes pleasure in being able to beat Joker raw but have his heart still beating underneath him. He loves getting him specifically to the brink of death whilst still not losing sleep over it (unless ofcourse he finds a bit TOO much pleasure in it.)

[clownprince]

Look. Don't get me wrong. I love the batjokes fandom literally everyone I've interacted with has been SO nice for such an insane ship it's a surprisingly chill fandom.

That being said... sometimes I feel Weird because a lot of the community (not all! but a large part) is like haha yeah my favorite fucked up toxic problematic ship love how twisted it is >:) batman wants to fuck that clown even though he literally killed his whole ass son it's so fucked I love it.

And that's fine! No problem with that. Power to you.

But I'm just over here like... what if they both got better together and processed their trauma and Joker made amends with everyone and everyone was happy and content as a family.

Like, the most compelling thing for ME in Batjokes is easily Bruce's refusal to view Joker the way most other people do. Even in arcs where he does dehumanize Joker, he at the very least makes an attempt to understand him. Everyone else is just like yeah, he's evil, he's just doing this shit because he enjoys it because he's a monster. But even when their relationship is at its worst, like in Joker War, Batman tries to understand where Joker is coming from. He doesn't just assume oh yeah Joker is just doing this because he's evil there's no logic behind his crimes he just enjoys it.

Bruce actually understands that Joker is trying to show him something, i.e., that he isn't being Batman right (in Joker's opinion). And even after Joker literally tears down his life, fucking reanimates his dead father figure to torment him and re-enacts his childhood trauma on the city, Bruce STILL ends up agreeing that he had a point!

Like to ME... Batjokes is about loving someone so transcendentally that you devote your entire existence to helping them. It's about having compassion for someone even after they commit horrific atrocities. It's about loving someone who everyone else hates and views as a monster. It's about someone loving the parts of someone that they consider terrible and unlovable. It's about being misunderstood your entire life and finally finding someone who gets it. It's about love for one person motivating you to stay alive in a world that's been nothing but cruel to you. It's about finding someone who makes everything awful that's ever happened to you seem worth it. But most importantly it's about the refusal to give up on someone who everyone else has long since declared a lost cause.

[noritaro]

what comics would you recommend to someone interested in batjokes

you dare release the behemoth inside of me?? (i am kissing you on the forehead beloved anon) Joker is very commonly implied to be in love with Batman most of the time actually- you'd see a lot of gay shit in most comics

these are the ones I started with when I got the batjokes brainrot/one from the top of my head at 4 am, but theres a lotta content out there from DC themselves

Batman: Europa - this is the batjokes bible, its 4 issues and the very first page will make you see as to why i call it the batjokes bible

Scott Snyders Batman run (2011) - more specifically Death of the Family (not to be mistaken for Death in the Family) Endgame and #48

Arkham Asylum Serious House On A Serious Earth - this is straight up one of the best Batman comics in general, Joker is VERY queercoded in this, and if you get the 25th anniversary edition like i did you will get to see old concepts of Joker wearing a black Madonna dress before DC higher ups stepped in

Batman: White Knight - Joker literally has a Batman shrine in this

Batman & The Joker: The Deadly Duo - they team up here dawg

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - another one of those very iconic Batman comics, almost every Batman fan has read this Joker calls Brucey "darling" here need i say more

I needa go sleep soon do have fun with these as starters :3 happy reading anon

oh and! the Telltale Batman games (particularly the second one) had a fuck ton of batjokes in it! As well as the Arkhamverse games, Joker literally serenades Batsy with love songs in the credits

there's so much canon shit out there even outside of the comic book realms

[distort-opia]

are there any examples of batjokes being gentle? i guess? with each other? other than bruce carrying joker bridal style or in TBWL when he held joker after he shot himself

Depends on your definition of "gentle", I suppose. If that includes Bruce saving Joker's life, often in dramatic ways and holding/carrying Joker bridal-style, he's done that a lot-- not just in Batman Who Laughs. But besides that... they do have quieter moments. They're rarer and not necessarily divorced from violence, because (to quote a line from Hannibal), violence is the language they best understand. But they're there.

The most obvious one is the ending of The Killing Joke, Bruce offering Joker his help and telling him he isn't alone, and then them laughing together while clinging to each other:

-- Batman: The Killing Joke

Another underrated moment that I'm personally very fond of comes from Legends of the Dark Knight (2012), and an arc called "Haunted Arkham". In it, the ghost of a little girl who was killed by the current head psychiatrist at Arkham begins to take over the residents, invoked by the head psychiatrist himself. Bruce realizes what must've happened to the little girl, who (of course) possesses Joker as her main avatar of revenge. She uses Joker to kill her tormentor, and after it happens, Bruce and Joker have this poignant scene:

-- Legends of the Dark Knight (2012) #21

That sock puppet Joker gives Bruce is the shape the little girl had taken to talk to Joker in previous issues, and he just accepts it. Bruce doesn't attack Joker either for killing the guy. They both clearly... felt for the child. (And don't even get me started on the meta aspect of it all, because what Joker's describing here is in many ways his own approach to loving Batman, hurting him so that he'd always pay attention to him and never forget him; which is why the little girl latches onto Batman too, and waits for him through Joker after the murder, because of the implied understanding.)

I'd also count Fool's Errand as a gentler moment. It's the anniversary of Jason Todd's death, and a child is missing (with only Joker having the information needed to save her, because he caused her kidnapping to happen), so you can imagine the kind of projection and grief that Bruce has got going on.

Joker covers it up as another ploy to get under Bruce's skin, but it doesn't entirely read like that. It reads like part of Joker compensates for Jason's death and lets Bruce have this win, this moment where he does manage to get there in time and save the child. ("Why? Just... because." And then he comes up with a reason Bruce would believe.)

-- Detective Comics (1937) #726

Though, maybe one of their most gentle moments is during their amnesiac time. After Batman: Endgame... and does dying together the way they did count as gentle? Either way, the implication of Capullo's unused cover for that last issue is striking:

-- Batman: Endgame

So they die, likely in each other's arms, but are brought back to life without their memories by the dionesium. And then (because the Universe apparently always brings these two together) amnesiac Bruce and Joker meet on a bench and have this iconic moment, in which Joker pretty much asks Bruce not to become Batman again and let them both rest:

-- Batman (2011) #48

The whole issue is beautiful, but my favorite is Joker (the champion of "nothing matters") telling Bruce (the champion of "everything matters") that it's okay for things to not have a point, that being alive and present is enough. Truly tragic that Bruce doesn't remember this.

Then there's a moment during the Rebirth Wedding arc, when Joker finds out about Bruce and Selina being engaged, and goes after them:

-- Batman (2016) #48

It's another instance of a deep understanding between them, an island of quiet within a river of violence.

Man, this got way longer than I thought! I'm sure there's other examples that might qualify, but I'll leave it as it is. Hope this scratched the itch, Anon.

[devine-fem]

I feel you on the lego batjokes hate. Previously i had no issue with it but fandom puritans and people who dont know SHIT about batman comics were so insistent on saying that lego batjokes is the only good batjokes that it basically ruined it for me

No because it’s actually so annoying.

“Lego Batjokes because its only okay in that universe!” You saw the most boring and watered down iteration of a character dynamic portrayed as legos and condemned anyone who was genuinely willing to explore it elsewhere because it makes you “uncomfortable”

They never touched a comic in they life, it’s always some sort of moral olympics like it’s so annoying. Way to ruin the fun.

No Lego Batman doesn’t have the best iteration of batjokes. Grow up girl, you picked the worst and simpliest version of the characters and continue to preach “oh only in this universe” just ship something else, I’m tired of this being the norm in batjokes spaces. Ship something else at that point there is no point in having you floating around just condemning people for a ship WHOS LITERAL POINT IS THAT THE SHIP IS TOXIC.

[fractualized]

hi!! i hope you don’t mind me asking this but i recently read harleen (specifically issue 1) and wondered if you might know of any other comics that have an outsider perspective of batjokes? thanks !!

I don't mind at all, anon! I also enjoy in-universe outside perspectives on Batman and Joker's relationship (and I've included quite a bit of it in fic). Harleen #1 does have a pretty great one:

The most common commentary on Batman and Joker from other characters is the ol' "why haven't you killed him yet?!" but that reflects more frustration than any inkling of the connection between Gotham's most famous nemeses. So with the help of @distort-opia, I wrangled panels from a couple dozen comics that show characters having a better (even if incomplete) understanding of what the heck is going on there.

Many of these may already be familiar if you've been around batjokes fandom long enough. Regardless, spoilers abound!

I've ordered these (mostly) in cover date order.

June 1996 - The Batman Chronicles #5

This is a flashback that takes place shortly after The Killing Joke. Barbara is understandably bitter about being fridged, and it's clear that officers who saw Batman and Joker laughing together have spread the word, because heyyyyy wtf?

October 1996 - Catwoman (1993) #38

Selina knows releasing other rogues is a good distraction; Batman is always more concerned about Joker than her.

May 1997 - Batman: Batgirl

Before this, Joker was firing his gun willy-nilly, hitting his own men, and he hit Batman accidentally. Barbara doesn't seem to think he fully understands the consequences of killing Batman, especially given the surprise he shows when Batman goes down.

Five years later, this story gets retold (with a worse rendition of Joker's fantastic oufit):

July 2002 - DC First: Batgirl/Joker 

In this version, Barbara more actively realizes she needs to get at Joker by laughing at him, because he's caught up in a reality where Batman is the only other real person. (Not sure if this is the first comic to posit that idea, but it has shown up elsewhere.)

February 1999 - Catwoman (1993) #65

Joker has been terrorizing Catwoman for Batman-related reasons for a few issues, and she knows that saying she's killed Batman will devastate him. (You know, the more stories like this I see, the more I see Tom King actually didn't have too far a walk to jokerize Selina.)

August 2001 - Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1989) #144

Alfred has noticed that Joker's presence affects Bruce's behavior. 

September 2003 - Batman: Gotham Knights #43

This take from Barbara is set before TKJ and meant to foreshadow (aftershadow?) it. Here she shows a better understanding of Batman and Joker's relationship than Bruce does.

October 2003 - Outsiders (2003) #3

Luthor knows just how to get under Joker's skin.

March 2011 - Streets of Gotham #19

Hush also knows how to get under Joker's skin.

March 2011 - Gotham City Sirens #19 

Selina and Harley are thinking more about themselves here, but it's not hard to connect the dots. Joker is part of the criminal morass that Bruce is focused on fighting, and Joker's focus is constantly on how to best the Batman.

November 2011 - Batman: Noël

Bruce has been told that Catwoman has information about the Joker's whereabouts. Note that Selina isn't saying she's aware that Joker is up to something right now; she implies that Batman is always thinking about Joker. It's a fact she can bank on.

May 2013 - Injustice: Gods Among Us #4 (digital release #11) 

Perhaps the most infamous example. This is related to the "why won't you kill him?" trope, but Clark's accusation takes it further by directly saying it's because Bruce loves fighting Joker more than he loves his friends and family.

Clark says something similar about Joker being Bruce's playmate in another comic:

August 2014 - Adventures of Superman (2013) #14 (digital release #41

Even outside of the Injustice universe, Clark knows Bruce's priorities are out of whack when it comes to Joker.

January 2013 - Catwoman (2011) #14

Selina just stating the obvious here, again after a now-faceless Joker has tormented her for Batman-related reasons for a couple issues.

April 2016 - Batman (2011) #49

Heartbreaking example from Alfred here. He watched Bruce's obsessiveness and understood that Bruce, consciously or subconsciously, saw dying with Joker as his destiny. He probably suspects that Joker didn't really die either and knows they're going to end up back on the same track.

April 2016 - Batman: Europa #4

These panels sum up Europa. Bane, always looking for fresh ways to break the Bat, saw Joker as a clear catalyst (even if he had to make up a convoluted plot to make Batman see it first).

January 2017 - All-Star Batman #4 (backer)

Duke is pretty much repeating Bruce's soliloquy from Death of the Family here, so he's not saying anything Bruce doesn't really know, but he doesn't know that Bruce knows. lol Interestingly, this happens before Dark Days: The Casting, in which Duke watches Joker demonstrate his love in a more positive way by trying to stop Bruce from blundering into everything that happens in Dark Nights: Metal and beyond.

January 2018 - Batman: White Knight #2

White Knight is problematic from a batjokes standpoint (and other standpoints!) but poor Harley presents another infamous outsider perspective here.

October 2018 - Harley/Gossamer Special

She's right and right to say it!

August 2020 - Birds of Prey (2020) 

This take is interesting in how it posits that Joker already felt unfulfilled by Batman by the time he met Harley and that she was kind of a rebound.

August 2020 - The Joker 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular

This is from "The Last Smile," in which Harley reveals Joker's recurring nightmare about Batman mocking him as he's put to death. Joker didn't picture Harley appearing to save him, but perhaps he felt like Batman's respect was "saving" him all the long.

September 2020 - Batgirl (2016) #47

Nooooo! That's the thing he's sensitive about!

April 2021 - Batman/Catwoman #3

I have… a lot of thoughts about Batman/Catwoman, few positive, but if you can push past the muddling storytelling technique (and the batcat if that's not your thing), Selina has a lot to say about Bruce and Joker's relationship, like in this and the following example.

May 2021 - Batman/Catwoman #4

Catwoman describes how Batman treats all his rogues and then equates that with how he treats his lovers. How much do you know, Selina? Who is Joker's main competition?? It's Harvey, isn't it?!

May 2022 - Detective Comics (2016) #1058 (backer)

Even newbie F-level antagonists like The Forgotten know what's up!

Well, that was a lengthy but surely not exhaustive account of what other DC characters think about the vibes between the Dark Knight and Clown Prince of Crime. (May they be bewildered for years to come!) I hope you spotted some comics that caught your interest, anon.

[dreameroutofthewater]

Please give me recommendations on good batjokes content. It can be official (I like most official batjokes representation), fanfiction, shows, cartoons, films, comics, games etc. I love their symbolism and parallels and I love recognition or their never-ending fight of equal opposite forces. The only thing I dislike is mischaracterization or dumbing down their characters, that's my only dislikes. Other than that I'm begging for recommendations!

[k-s-morgan]

For batjoke is it on every version of Batman or a special version ?

Ooh, this is actually a very complex question! In most versions where Batman and Joker appear together, they share a complex relationship complete with flirtation, tension, and subtext. The really unhinged things take place in comics and in games, but there is some good stuff in the movies and a TV show, too, so I'll cover everything briefly.

In comics, it's repeatedly stated that Joker is in love with Batman; Batman is also said to love Joker. They are married in one of AU universes; they lose any purpose when they think the other is dead; everyone criticizes them for their unhealthy, destructive obsession with each other, but they can't stop. The problem is that there is like a million comics, many of which take place in different continuity, and it's impossible to cover them all even if you want.

The Batjokes-heavy games are Arkham Origins, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, and Arkham Knight (chronologically). If you don't want to play them, you could watch the excerpts on YouTube. Here's a great example, 3 minutes that basically reflect the essence of Batjokes:

Another game is Batman: Telltale, which also has Batjokes.

Now, as for movies… If you want to get a feel of the dynamic between Batman and Joker, you could watch the 5-minute ending of the animated film The Killing Joke.

It struck me deeply because Batman went through the movie being cold and serious, not smiling once. Joker did horrifying things to his friends here, yet in the end, Batman urges Joker to let him help him. Joker considers it and refuses, but with obvious regret, and then he tells a joke, and Batman bursts out laughing. He then leans close and touches Joker as he keeps laughing with abandon. This is a beautiful scene, it underlines the complexity of their dynamic, and the joke itself speaks volumes.

The Dark Knight movie is the most well-known and it inspired tons of Batjokes. I wouldn't say it has much of it, but it still teases a fascinating dynamic, and it's a brilliant movie by itself. Here's a scene of Batman and Joker having their first lengthy conversation.

There is Gotham TV show. It features young Bruce and young Joker who is called Jeremiah. Their relationship starts out late, at the end of S4, and everything is rushed because the show was cancelled prematurely, but it still wraps everything up and it has brilliant moments. A great fan-edit about that version of Joker, with some Batjokes teasing (Joker is presented both as pretty and as disfigured after the acid bath - it's the same person).

There is a Batjokes-focused fan-edit here, but it has some spoilers.

The latest Batman movie of 2022 teased a great Batjokes dynamic. Here's the scene:

From more light-hearted stuff, there is a Lego Batman movie. I was hesitant to watch it at first, but I liked it and it has probably the most explicit romantic Batjokes :D

Harley Quinn animated series (2019) has some great Batjokes moments, too. Like, in E1 alone, Joker has to choose between saving Batman and his own girlfriend, and he chooses Batman; in E2, he's jealous and keeps claiming Batman is his, and so on.

This has gotten much longer than I expected :D

[icespur]

I forgot the most important part of my Batjokes Mpreg concept! The birth.

I have a couple scenarios for how the birth could go down, my preferred scenario is where Joker contacts Bats and forces him to help him through childbirth.

At first, Joker is stubborn, refusing help at first, shutting down his henchmens concerns and suggestions to just go to the fricking Hospital, “I can handle it.”, “I’m fine”, until the most painful contraction comes---

After falling to the floor in pain, a scream. He carefully gets up, in defeat orders “Call Bats.”

He doesn’t exactly have Batman on speedial, so contacting him requires telling his goons to go out, cause trouble to lure him, and hand him a Walkie Talkie so Joker can better explain the situation.

Batman, already knows about the baby (see recent post), but he kinda---tried to forget it. So when Joker’s goons hand him a walkie with Joker trying to act natural but pained grunts, heavy breathes, and occasional scream and curses still come through and don’t go unnoticed. Well, kinda hard to ignore that!

Joker’s version of asking Batman for help isn’t “Hey, our baby is coming, I need help.”

it’s

“I have put explosives in every water tower in the city, if you refuse to help me, my water won’t be the only one breaking.”

“......What?”

Joker doesn’t want to go to the hospital because of the risk that the doctors might immediately take the newborn away since----he’s an unpredictable madman. So this is happening in the hideout.

Joker automatically assumes since Batman is super skilled in combat and solving crimes, that also means he has medical and childbirth knowledge (apparently there are comics where Batman does indeed successfully help deliver a baby, but for this scenario it’s more entertaining if he doesn’t).

Batman is like “I’m flattered you think I have unlimited knowledge, but no where in my training did I prepare for childbirthing courses, let alone male childbirth. I am not qualified for this, I could take you to the hospital tho--”

“NO HOSPITAL!”

Internally Bruce is screaming and freaking out: THERE WAS NO TRAINING FOR SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, WHY AM I BEING PUT IN THIS SITUATION, IF I SCREW UP WHAT IF THEY BOTH DIE? I DON’T WANT A STILLBORN BABY ON MY CONSCIOUS.

Externally since Batman is stoic he’s masking the panic with calm “We should really take you to the hospital.” Awkward attempts at comforting touches, “What--what do you need? Do you need anything?” and also carefully attempting to coherse an already irked in pain Joker, to hand over the detonator for the watertowers.

Realistically, Baby would probably have to come out via C section, but painful childbirth is more entertaining (exit via anus or tears through the perineum)

C section version in the hideout would be Joker going “screw this” takes out a knife from his nearby stash and starts DIY C section, Batman freaks out, has to make sure J doesn’t bleed out, then J successfully pulls out the baby and

It’s a girl with Joker’s unnaturally white skin thanks to ACE Chemicals, and Bruce’s hair color and blue eyes. She’s pretty much a genderbent baby Bruce with Joker’s skin (as she grows and her hair grows out, her hair has green streaks. So, mostly black hair with green streaks)

which opens a whole other complicated can of worms! How the heck is this going to work?

Also, if Joker didn’t know Batman’s identity already, he does now.

“Hm, you know, she kinda looks like that rich Wayne guy, I know I used your D.N.A. though, I didn’t make a mista-----BATSY, YOU’RE BRUCE WAYNE?!”

[sabaldax]

hiii !! i love your jaxverse so much omg.... i adore your joker, hes so perfect, and i love how you write bruce too.. your batjokes fics are just so so amazing and elite and i love them so much ive been so obsessed with reading them 🥺🥺 i basically wanted to ask if you have any recommendations for other batjokes fics i could read while i wait for your updates? :] there are so many to comb through but i would love to find more fics where joker is characterized a similar way as jax.. or even just any batjokes fics you like for any reason would be fine :D i trust your taste above all else atp 😭 sorry if this has been asked before btw!! 🥺

HIIIII THIS HAS MADE ME SO HAPPY YOU HAVE NO IDEA D: thank you beyond all thank yous for being so lovely! it drives me INSANE when i get asks about jaxverse so please don't worry about doubling up: this is only the 2nd time i've ever got an ask about him HERE ARE MY TOP THREE WRITER RECOMMENDATIONS!

distortopia, particularly repetitio est mater studiorum @distort-opia is a level 999 batjokes archivarius who has read damn near every comic about them there is to read. they then artfully weave all of that history into the most fucking banger fics you've ever read in your life! i'm so obsessed with how they usually include a list in the author's notes noting which comics they've referenced and where Dracze, particularly A Serious House @dracze is probably best known for Half Way Across, a direct continuation of The Killing Joke where Joker takes Batman up on his offer to try to rehabilitate him. but MY favourite Dracze fic is this 3-chapter unfinished Beauty & the Beast AU where Batman is the beast & joker is his magically-assigned fated true love 😭 i'm feral and low key have the beginnings of a fanfic for THIS fanfic in my drafts ForDarkIsTheSuede (TheBadgeringWitness), particularly Batman the Telltale Series: The Perseverance Project if you haven't played/watched a playthrough of the batman tts game, especially the enemy within which is the joker-heavy part, PLEASE do, and then PLEASE immediately log onto ao3 and read this series by @fordarkisthesuede. she picks up where the vigilante route finishes up and good god they should just let her make the next game fr. this one's a John Doe/Bruce (or "juce" if you're familiar) and trust me it's so fucking good. so so so fucking good. John Doe is high-key one of my main influences on Jax (along with The Jokester from the Countdown comic run & of course, Joker from The Lego Batman Movie), and she's absolutely fucking NAILED him here. he's so so in character that his dialogue sounds like it could have come straight from the game

i hope these keep you busy and please know that you're SO welcome to reach out off anon! i send jaxverse chapter WIPs to a couple of my best judies from time to time so i can farm them for motivation while i work my office job

[bougiebutchbitch]

Congratulations, you made me start reading White Knight! I'm not a fan so far, but I believe you said it gets better?

lmao, I am shaking hands with you and pretty much every other Batjokes fan!

It does get better. By a lot. I would encourage you to keep going!

The whys & wherefores are below the cut - but I have to give the obligatory disclaimer that this is all personal opinion. I know this is a bit of a contentious comic in the fandom, for reasons I fully understand! I'm not looking to get into a debate - just to ramble a little and share my love for this series with folks who, hopefully, will appreciate that x

The most egregious issue I had with White Knight was that Jack seemed to be an entirely different character from Joker. So... why should I even care about him?

Like. He started wearing a suit? And working out to get the Stereotypical Superhero Bod rather than rocking that classic scrawny Joker look? And he became a freaking politician? Bullshit.

Add to that the shoddy mental health depictions (that's... really not how DID works, DC) and the blatant homophobia of "We will literally say ON THE PAGE that Joker is in love with Batman, but only when he's evil - when he's good, he's in love with Harley and hates Batman".... Yeah, the initial comic has issues, to say the least.

BUT. I do think that in the later chapters, after Jack's 'death' - so, in the Beyond the White Knight era! - Jack's characterisation gets wayyyy more believable. He reads like a good incarnation of Joker! He's annoying - purposefully, irrepressably so! He's a dork! He's hyper-intelligent but also just plain ol' hyper! He does his own sound effects! He goofs about because he thinks he's hilarious (and Bruce kinda indulges him and it's very cute)! He's A MASSIVE Batman fanboy, and hooooo boy does it show!

There's a gigantic Queer Undertone to his relationship with Batman - even more so than is the norm, for Batjokes. One need only look at the little heart emoticon when he talked to Bruce in the Valentine's Day issue. Or the whole 'Harley gets to call you Bats but I don't? :pout:' part. Or the 'those two bicker like an old married couple' bit, or the part where Jack asks Batman if he can ride on the back of his motorcycle ("You won't even feel my arms around you ;)" - holographic flirting at its finest!), or even Bruce's relationship with Harley!

I'm serious. You do NOT need to be wearing the Queer Viewing Goggles in order to interpret Jack wholeheartedly supporting Bruce and Harley getting together and being happy together, with or without his involvement, in a very OT3-sorta-fashion.

Buuuuuut if you're after explicit statements that Jack is still in love with Batman as Jack, rather than Joker, you won't find them in this comic. I would argue that there's enough implicit stuff there to see Jack as 100% bisexual, in love with Bruce and Harley, but, as usual.... that reading remains implicit. Instead, there is enough ambiguity for Comic Dudebros to argue that The Magic Brain Pills 'cured' Joker both of his mental illness and his love for Batman. Which... sigh. :/

In other news, I genuinely like the depiction of Bruce in this comic! So driven, so stoic... But he's also learning slowly how to be vulnerable with the people who love him, how to accept and live with his panic disorder, and how to impart affection to his sons! He's learning that he's allowed family, happiness, and peace! Those are arcs I will never tire of.

Harley is also a delight - a take-no-shit, smart yet fun interpretation of the character. She doesn't really read like the Harley I know and love, but regardless, I'm invested in her and her story!

So, yeah. Awesome art, decent storyline (not exceptional, but far from the worst out there!), fascinating Elseworlds look at the entire Batfam, and strong, strong implications of an m/m/f OT3... There's a lot not to love. But there's a lot to love, too!

I hope you enjoy!

[clownprince]

Batjokes Timeline

This is based in Rebirth/Infinite Frontier but it overlaps with other eras cause yk. Comics. Where possible I tried to put the original comic/arc instead of the Rebirth comic where it was referenced or shown in a flashback, since most of the Rebirth timeline prior to like Year 16-17 is shown via flashbacks or references. Cause again. Comics.

Also this is almost entirely based on info from the Batman Chronology Project I just pulled out the Batjokes bits.

Please correct me if any of this is wrong because I am Not going through every single one of these to double-check. Also lmk if there are any other comics that can fit in a certain place on this timeline.

YEAR ONE

Zero Year: Secret City

Zero Year: Dark City

Bruce adopts Dick as his ward (Nightwing Vol. 4 #32, Nightwing Vol. 4 #69, Batman Vol. 3 #54, Strange Love Adventures #1 Part 6)

Dick begins training, which lasts six months (Detective Comics #1000 Part 9)

Batman: The Man Who Laughs

First instance of the monthly birthday present ritual occurs in early December (Detective Comics #1027 Part 3)

Bruce visits Arkham to meet with Joker and shows him the playing card he found in the Batcave, revealing his identity to Joker (Batman Vol. 2 #17)

Note: Dr. Harleen Quinzel has been Joker's therapist since his first stay at Arkham Asylum

YEAR TWO

Dick debuts as Robin (Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet and Batman and Robin Vol. 2 Annual #2)

Batman saves Joker from Deathstroke (Batman Vol. 3 #122-123)

War of Jokes and Riddles

YEAR THREE

Dr. Harleen Quinzel, having fallen in love with the Joker (gotta love the horrifying medical malpractice), breaks him out of Arkham Asylum, becoming his girlfriend and sidekick Harley Quinn (Harley Quinn Vol. 3 #17, Harley Quinn 25th Anniversary Special #1 Part 4, Batman Vol. 3 #42)

YEAR FOUR

In March, for Batman’s monthly “birthday present,” Joker sends a crudely drawn picture of himself and Batman with the words “Best Friends” written on it (Detective Comics #1027 Part 3)

I Am a Gun

Note: Batman admitted he underwent those sensory deprivation tests in an isolation chamber so he could experience hallucinations and psychotic states to see a glimpse of how Joker's mind worked (Batman Vol. 1 #673)

YEAR FIVE

Barbara debuts as Batgirl (Batgirl Vol. 4 #0)

Batman chases Joker down to Blüdhaven, Gordon and the GCPD shoot their way through their former co-workers into a warehouse filled with piñatas. Inside each piñata is a corpse (Joker Vol. 2 2021 Annual)

Note: for the past year, Joker had only been pulling pop-crime pranks and small time heists

YEAR SIX

An escaped Joker decides not to commit any crimes for once, instead following Batman around, simply trying to get the grim Dark Knight to laugh (referenced in Event Leviathan #2)

YEAR SEVEN

In February, an escaped Joker defeats the Teen Titans (Robin, Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy, and Raven), leaving them bound, unconscious, and underwater as Batman’s monthly “birthday gift" (Detective Comics #1027 Part 3)

Dick turns 18 and quits as Robin (Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Spectacular Part 1)

Bruce meets Jason Todd and starts training him (Batman #408-409)

Dick debuts as Nightwing

Joker unveils his "Laughing Fish" gag (Detective Comics #475-476)

Jason Todd debuts as Robin (Truth and Justice #10)

YEAR NINE

Batman: The Killing Joke

A Death in the Family

Tim begins training as Robin (A Lonely Place of Dying)

YEAR TEN

Tim debuts as Robin

Knightfall

Rock of Ages

Batman fights Onomatopoeia and saves Joker's life (Batman: Cacophony #3)

YEAR ELEVEN

Cataclysm

Aftershock

No Man’s Land

Tower of Babel

Note: Batman appoints Cass Cain as Batgirl during No Man's Land

YEAR TWELVE

Under the Hood

Tim stops being Robin, Stephanie Brown takes over temporarily before she is fired and Tim is reinstated (Robin Vol. 2 #124-130)

YEAR THIRTEEN

Batman R.I.P.

Bruce meets Damian for the first time (Batman and Son)

YEAR FOURTEEN

Harley breaks up with Joker for good (Gotham City Sirens #1)

Bruce makes Damian his full-time official partner (Batman & Robin Vol. 2 #1-8)

Joker buries Simon Hurt alive, which is the same way Hurt tried to kill Batman. Hm (Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #6 and Batman & Robin #13-16)

Joker removes his face and goes into hiding (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #1)

Death of the Family

YEAR FIFTEEN

Endgame

Superheavy

YEAR SIXTEEN

Duke joins the Batfamily (Batman: Rebirth #1)

Batman locates Joker (presumably still amnesiac at this point) and apprehends him, incarcerating him in Sub-Cave Alpha. in exchange for information about Dionesium, Batman tells Joker about his “dark energy” investigation and covert use of the Outsiders and “Black Sites.” He even shows Joker his cloning machine and the “Meta-File” on the Bat-computer (Dark Days: The Casting)

Batman proposes to Catwoman, presumably while Joker is still in his basement (Batman Vol. 3 #24)

Hal and Duke find Joker in the Batcave cell (Dark Days: The Forge)

Batman teams up with Joker to defeat the Batman Who Laughs (Dark Nights: Metal #4-6)

YEAR SEVENTEEN

Joker finds out about Batman’s engagement (Batman: Prelude to the Wedding Part 2 Nightwing vs Hush #1)

The Best Man

Batman and Catwoman call off the wedding but stay engaged (Batman Vol. 3 #50)

YEAR EIGHTEEN

The Batman Who Laughs #1-7

YEAR NINETEEN

Their Dark Designs

Joker War

YEAR TWENTY-ONE

Failsafe

The Man Who Stopped Laughing #1-4

[waverendersoath]

oh my god! slay!

yeah i redesigned the joker for a gen z verse. what ABOUT it!!! this is the first art ive done for myself in a long time and i very proud of it! i had a lot of fun incorporating some of my fave parts of different jokers for this au. ive never read any of the comics, but i think as long as i keep the ‘joker is OBSESSED with the emo furry guy w/ wet cat energy’ and ‘bruce cannot exist without batman, and batman cannot exist without bruce’ energy it should. probably be fine. idk! im doin this verse for funsies bc its RIDICULOUS how the subtext becomes literal proof when you even GLANCE through the batjokes entry on the shipping fandom wiki. like. if bruce died instead of his parents then HIS MOM WOULD BECOME THE JOKER AND HIS DAD WOULD BECOME BATMAN??? YOU CANNOT GET ANY MORE GOD DAMN IN YR FACE ABOUT IT THAN THAT SOB SOB

anyways this design is post batjokes get together, after jokes has become calmer because now bats is looking at him the most again!!! and also bc i have to make it feel nice and happy for this au before i ruin everything and make myself cry for three hours :))))) i love writing angst and i think these fictional little guys are the perfect fictional little guys to get back into making things for myself!

harlivy designs are next, and then maybe my other jokes designs?? ooo or maybe bruce design. hmmm. not the batman design i have in mind if only bc i HATE drawing armor or whatever the fuck. idt spandex work would for this au(? verse? i was a marvel girlie for a long time whatever) im cooking up, tragically, so :///

i really found out that you can do a whole lot more in the dc universe than i thought and became the most creative i have ever been, actually. slay for me!!!

[distort-opia]

What do you think about Joker and Batman’s story in the Arkham Games?

Oh I think it's great. Arkhamverse Batjokes is one of my favorite iterations of the dynamic. Starting from Arkham Origins and how they have Joker begin to be truly obsessed with Batman only after Batman saves his life multiple times-- even though it didn't make any sense, even though any rational person would've let Joker die. There's just something so compelling about Joker being so self-destructive and careless from the start, latching onto the one person acting against all he believes. Because Joker thinks he deserves to die, and doesn't try to avoid it (more like actively encourages it). But then Batman keeps saving that life of his he doesn't value, again and again... It's pretty similar to what happens in the comics, too: Joker seeing Batman as a distraction or a pest to his main plan, and then Batman doing something so out of the ordinary that Joker becomes obsessed. It's just more condensed, more obvious in the game.

"Now, why? Why? Why would you do that? Newsflash: I'm the one who's trying to kill you!" I adore Troy Baker's performance, and the sheer frustration in Joker's voice. Just love this whole scene so fucking much. Joker putting the gun to his head and Bruce's sheer... trauma and inability to witness death kicking into gear, having him instantly jump to stop Joker despite the fact he killed two people seconds before, but then punching him in the face. Genius.

Though I think the most interesting thing about Arkhamverse Batjokes is that Joker dies. It's one of the few mediums to explore in depth what would happen to Bruce afterwards, how he'd cope with it... with the answer being "badly". Both in-game and in comics or novels set in the universe, it's explicitly stated either by Bruce or by other characters that he's mourning. And he doesn't understand it. Then you've got the fact he's hallucinating Joker, and Joker's taking over his mind. In many ways it's similar to the backstory of the Batman Who Laughs; getting infected by blood/toxin after Joker's death and becoming an amalgamation of himself and Joker. Except, in the Arkham games, Bruce manages to stop the transformation. And no matter how you interpret it: the Joker in Bruce's mind being the real Joker, or Joker being a figment of his imagination fuelled by the tainted blood in his system acting to Jokerize him the way it did the others-- it's still so telling, the way it all unfolds. At the end of Arkham Knight, Bruce still doesn't kill Joker, not even when Joker isn't real. What we get, as a way of symbolizing Joker's defeat and Bruce regaining control over himself, is Joker being shoved into a cell and shouting "I need you". And how many times has Bruce put Joker in a cell before? How many times has Joker broken out of it? That isn't really the ending... there is no ending for the two of them.

God, and I didn't even mention Joker's songs, him performing Only You, the phonecalls to Bruce, the interviews in Arkham... the incredible voice acting from Kevin Conroy (he'll always be remembered, and always be Batman to me) and Mark Hamill... so many great elements. Not gonna keep ranting, but yeah! Arkamverse Batjokes is my second favorite after the comics.

[devine-fem]

Who is your favorite DC character after Damian and Jon?

Damian and Jon are actually technically not my favorite DC characters. I don't get to talk about this often but Damijon is just a comfort ship for me and that's kinda sad because that means your girl needs a lot of comfort. LMAO I don't post about much else but like... I actually am huge on Batjokes above most ships, I just don't do anything besides reblog meta and art... other than that I actually am really a Wonder Woman, Zatanna, mostly female heroes... Raven, Koriand'r and... others among them, I have some others like Garth... I love him so much... uh... Yeah, this account is just for posting about Damian and Jon mainly because they give me so much serotonin and all - they are so adorable, and their comics are easy to read, current fixation.

[fractualized]

Relationship Compromise in Batman/Catwoman

(or: I'm not sure Tom King knows just how bonkers what he wrote is and I don't know what to do with that)

Batman/Catwoman concluded this past June, and I did not enjoy it, and it haunts me.

Just... when I read a story and what the author apparently thinks is happening does not align with the events on the page, I can't help but feel some fascination. The final page, in B/C #12, is definitely the most dissonant:

What a romantic scene, the pin on a tale of love triumphant! If you ignore many of the events around it!!

I try not to be too much of a dick even about things I don't like. Regardless of my opinion, Tom King wrote twelve dang issues interweaving three different time periods, so he put some measure of thought into it. So at the conclusion of my first read, when my reaction was "lol what," I still thought maybe the spliced time periods were hiding something from me. That narrative tactic is typically used so that an event that happens in one period of time can directly comment on an event that occurs much earlier/later, and there was some of that in B/C, but its main effect was muddling the story. Plus I read it over the course of 17 months! Maybe I missed something, something that made it allllll come together.

So during my second read, like a sane person, I cut up all the panels and sorted them into the three different tracks. And then I read the story again chronologically, and this time my reaction was... *resoundlingly* "lol what."

And I will explain why at length under the cut (with many many spoilers, as well as remarks on dismemberment and suicide).

(A more fitting final takeaway from much earlier in the story, B/C #3)

Ostensibly, Batman/Catwoman is about Selina keeping an identity of her own while making her relationship with Bruce work; it's about compromise, about love persevering through conflict. Yet again and again, whether I read the story the way it was published or chronologically (for a total of five times!), I kept seeing Selina so bitter about those compromises that, to keep the relationship going, she tells Bruce two brutal lies that make the final page of B/C come off as a joke.

Again, it's this dissonance that bothers me. I ship batjokes. If you want to tell me a tale about screwed up relationship dynamics and people managing to love each other in spite of them in their own bizarre way, I'm into it. That's interesting! A lot of B/C was interesting, until the framing kept trying to tell me it was ultimately a love story that all worked out.

This journey of Selina's, which is as much about her relationship with Joker as it is her relationship with Bruce, takes place over three different Christmas seasons. Presumably this is a reference to the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future, so I'll use those labels:

Past Track: In their earlier years, Bruce and Selina attempt a relationship while Selina tries to hide that she's drinking buddies with Joker. Present Track: Years later, some point after King's Batman run, Bruce and Selina's relationship has progressed to them living together, with Selina helping Bruce fight crime. Andrea Beaumont reappears in Gotham and asks them to help search for her lost son, and she goes on a murderous revenge spree when it appears that Joker killed him. Future Track: Decades later, Bruce dies of sickness in his old age, and the widowed Selina tracks down Joker and finally kills him. Helena/Batwoman (her and Bruce's daughter) and Commissioner Dick Grayson attempt to bring Selina to justice.

(These descriptions just set the scene for each time period. The plot gets too convoluted to sum up, so you'll have to read B/C if you want all the story beats. Godspeed.)

Selina's first big lie is actually pretty understandable. It comes up early in B/C #2 in the Future Track, when she slashes Joker's throat.

Bruce's refusal to kill including Joker is an oft-voiced frustration not only in fandom but within the comic universe. It's clear here that Selina agreed to adhere to this rule while Bruce was alive. Then she, as his wife, when he was on his deathbed, lied to him about one of the major principles of his life.

Certainly, what to say to Bruce about her intentions must have been a tough call. As he slipped away, Selina could have either lied to his face or told him that she was going back on her word. Both are not great for different reasons! Of course, she had a third choice, which was honoring Bruce's wishes, perhaps having come to see eye-to-eye with him over the years, the kind of understanding you might expect in a story that ends with a kiss that belongs on the cover of a bodice-ripper. But the crux of B/C is that Selina did not agree with Bruce on this, and over the next ten issues we learn more about why, after Joker has apparently been untraceable for ten years, she felt the need to hunt him down.

Plus it's not like Joker doesn't have a point; it is kind of darkly, desperately funny for Bruce to expect loved ones to stick to his rules after he's dead, like they're appendages of him instead of their own people. Even when Bruce was dying, he was trying to exert control. And this idea coming up so early, it feels like that is what B/C is supposed to be about: Selina's independence stifled by Bruce's need for control.

This conflict is starkest in the Past Track when, instead of trying to kill Joker, Selina repeated refuses to sell him out:

(Selina, people are dying.)

Naturally, Joker adds to the friction by encouraging Selina's identity crisis:

Of course he's saying these things because he's ultimately only "friends" with her in hopes she'll disclose Batman's identity and location to him.

And given Joker's behavior, it feels like Selina is only "friends" with him too, that her attachment is more about the freedom it represents for her, about her refusal to be consumed by Bruce— though it's still hard to buy. Joker's characterization remains the wildly murderous maniac he's been for ages now. I can see a tamer version of Joker charming his way into a friendship with Selina, but she's not the type of person to brush off mass murder while casually trusting the mass murderer. Even in this very story!

Previously, Selina assaults Joker because when he poisoned of one of her marks, it left evidence that the two of them were in the same room together, but here, she wasn't involved in the reindeer "gag." She's just upset.

Yet before and after those assaults, Selina and Joker still have their buddy time, so her perspective is summed up by what is one of my most hated panels ever in B/C #8:

(Oh golly gee, who knew ignoring all this over-the-top murder stuff would feel ickily complicit!)

One way or another, Selina clearly doesn't like what Joker does, seeming to confirm that this friendship is really about her need for independence— until B/C #9, when Joker again asks for info on Bruce and it finally clicks for her that Joker's friendship is a fraud. Selina is just so shocked and appalled that this remorseless killer would betray her, that in B/C #10 the revelation escalates into a physical fight and speechifying:

(The fact that this never occurred to Selina until now is insulting to her character.)

(I really hate her dialogue about the rogues' claims to insanity, but that's a whole other can of worms.)

The betrayal is all this fight is about. Selina is not protecting Bruce here; she's channeling a simultaneous frustration with Bruce. Selina is looking to be understood, and she's not finding that understanding. All she gets is Bruce asking where Joker is, and Joker asking who Bruce is. Therefore she decides: fuck both these guys.

You know what? Hell yeah! Go be your own person, Selina!

Uh, except the very next thing that happens in the Past Track, in B/C #11, is Selina turning around and giving Joker up to Bruce. I guess she meant "fuck" figuratively with Joker and literally with Bruce. Bruce asks her why she changed her mind, and she explains:

"He... Joker asked me if... If I was Batman or if I was Catwoman. Like... like everything in the world has to be this or that, one or the other. Like you can't just put the two together and make that work. [....] Also, he's the Joker. So @$%#% him."

Okay that actually explains jack shit, and you did not really "make that work" because this story references events in King's Batman run, which means you broke up again (probably several times) after this, but okie dokie.

So from the Past Track, we know that Joker violated Selina's trust, and she finds his murder gross. She did not try to kill him at that point, though; it's what happens in the Present Track that changes things. In that time period, presumably set some time after King's Batman run, Selina and Bruce are back together, and their conflict resurfaces when Andrea shows up. Andrea kidnaps Selina in an effort to get Bruce to turn Joker over for execution, and in a short time she convinces Selina that Joker deserves death for his brand of cruelty. The two women then conspire to get Bruce out of the way for the murder by knocking him unconscious and locking him naked in a bank vault with the alarm going off. Which is 1) hilarious, sure, but 2) giving strong Joker vibes?

(Some people theorize that Tom King is secretly a batjokes shipper. My theory is that he doesn't know he's batjokes shipper.)

I'm not saying Selina can't be funny; I'm saying that out of all the options she had to get Bruce out of the way, this is what she picked, while leaving a breezy btw-gonna-murder-now note. And this is far from the first time she has a Jokery flavor. The most egregious example is in the Future Track, when she discovers that Dick had Joker's body transported to Gotham, and she dismembers Joker's corpse and uses the pieces to decorate a tree:

(And a clown head on a fir treeeeeeee!)

Dick's dialogue is repeating a note left on the tree, which is referencing a joke relayed to Selina and Batman by a Joker victim in the Present Track: "what did Santa say when he got thrown down the chimney and landed on his head? Oh oh oh." But the problem with this grotesque display is that Joker can't experience the payback since he's, uh, dead, and Selina and Bruce were the only ones to hear this joke. I suppose Bruce may have told others about it, and certainly kept records about his cases, but still, why antagonize Helena and Dick with this specific line? Who is this for?

Allegedly, Selina is still just that angry about what Joker did to Andrea Beaumont, which feels inexplicable. The theory seems to be that Joker's manipulation of Andrea makes Selina feels a kinship with her. After the undefined version of Mask of the Phantasm that happened in this universe, Andrea hunted Joker down, only to find him with a baby that he referred to as his own child. To escape, Joker tossed the newborn into the air and ran off, and when she caught the baby... she found her inner pain suddenly soothed. (Yeah, yeah, I know.) Instead of continuing the hunt, Andrea named the baby Andrew (yeah, yeah, I know) and became his mother— and now all these years later, she finds out that Joker stole Andrew from a hospital, when the clown tricks her into coming with him to the family's home and blows them up. Andrea feels such horrible guilt about getting the entire family killed that she commits suicide right in front of Bruce and Selina.

An awful series of events... but I still find it strange for Andrea to be the only victim Selina name-checks in her final confrontation with Joker. She barely knew Andrea, a fact that's emphasized when Harley shows up. Selina has longer histories with other characters traumatized by Joker, but she doesn't say one word indicating that she killed him for Harley too. You could say it's because Selina's too focused on their fight, except she does find the mental space to declare that Harley never killed Joker because, like Bruce, Harley is a better person than she gives herself credit for.

(We've got two other cans of worms here we're not gonna open.)

Also, in the Present Track, Selina is strikingly callous toward the Joker victim who tells the Santa joke, when Selina and Bruce first encounter him...

... and when he falls off the bridge.

But okay, maybe on top of witnessing Andrea's suicide, it's the motherhood angle that gets to Selina. She doesn't seem too affected in the Present Track, but in the Future Track we see her interactions with Helena go from strained to violent, then come to a more loving resolution:

We can surmise that Selina's need to defy Bruce's rule and kill Joker only grew over time, as her relationship with her daughter deepened her understanding of Andrea's pain at losing Andrew.

Except LOL, SUCKERS. That interpretation is undermined by the pièce de résistance, the second and worst of the lies Selina tells.

Because, as revealed in the Future Track, Andrea is alive! Selina broke Clayface out of Arkham and got him to impersonate Andrea slashing her own throat so the real Andrea could run away and lay low. Andrea agreed to this in exchange for Selina eventually killing Joker. Selina has been planning to kill Joker for decades, since before Helena was born.

And, again, in case you forgot, the fake suicide happens right in front of Bruce by design, and there's no indication he ever finds out the truth. In the immediate aftermath, Selina even freaking brings up Alfred, adding to Bruce's feelings of failure and loss:

(These panels also featuring Bruce's glib, painfully out-of-character reference to his parents' murder.)

If that wasn't enough, Selina comforts Bruce by using this as an opportunity to reinforce that, in the end, all they have is each other:

(Ummm so what if in this instance the cat wounded the bat but the bat didn't know? And is this a bonding moment or a Calvin Klein ad?)

These panels come before the reveal that Andrea is still alive, so the appeal to Selina and Bruce's connection is in earnest. It's only later in the issue that the reader is privy to how wildly fucked up this is! On Christmas!

And then it gets even worse, because now, now, is when Selina and Bruce finally get legitimately married. It's not clear if it's that same night, but it must be within a week because the chapel still has Christmas music in rotation. Selina has just finished plotting for Bruce to witness the fake-but-heartwrenching suicide of one of the loves of his life, and then she marries him!

(True love conquers all when you've manipulated your partner into another bout of grief.)

In the future, temporary fugitive Selina joins Andrea on a tropical island, and the fake suicide is framed like a clever ploy the women pulled off, a bizarre compromise to get around Bruce's rule, but it just shows... contempt, honestly? And not for the first time, after Selina's inexplicable refusal to tell Bruce Joker's location, after her angry realization that Bruce and Joker are so much alike, referenced again here:

There's also a strange vibe with something Selina says to Helena at dinner, after Joker's murder:

Very "I held out long enough to kill the clown and get all Bruce's money. :)"

Then there's Selina's relationship with Helena. Before the heartwarming scene between them I shared above, in B/C #10, they have a physical fight during which Selina expresses a lot of hostility toward her daughter for embodying Bruce's brand of justice.

That last one may seem irrelevant, but I think it speaks to the point. Calling your daughter ungrateful when she's doing what you know she was taught? Seems like there's anger at the teacher!

And when all is said and done, Selina convinces Helena to not be like her father and to let her mother walk:

Selina does also say favorable things about Bruce, and at times expresses regret that she couldn't live up to what he wanted. I'm not saying she didn't love him, or that holding off from killing Joker while Bruce was alive meant nothing. But as the saying goes, "show, don't tell," and so many of Selina's actions, especially loading more trauma on Bruce, outweigh the nicer moments.

In the face of those actions, the sweeping romance of that final panel in the last issue does not hold up. There's elements of a better story here, about an independent woman convincing herself to compromise for love, and at the end of her life finding more regret and bitterness than she bargained for, and not finding peace with it. But while King is able to see Selina's need to be unconstrained, ultimately his writing glosses over it and has her reconcile with the wife/mother role, while ignoring the cruelty of the deception she implements to get there.

Looking back, it feels like the primary function of telling Batman/Catwoman in such a tangled way was to obscure the mess.

(tl;dr: where is my "Selina divorces Bruce and takes him for all he's got" storyline?)