#this is mostly about mdzs i think

[tilapia-goulash]

I've gotta say, out of all the MXTX novels, MDZS definitely feels the most "different" to me. Is it a bad thing? Not really. Is it just because of my own biased perception (MDZS was the novel I read last)? Maybe. But as I've thought about it more, I've realized the main thing for me that really separates MDZS from the other two novels isn't its more surface level differences (different flavor of ML, more political drama-y, arguably good sex, etc etc) but rather one simple thing: the scale.

TGCF and SVSSS are stories that have larger scales by necessity of the plot. SVSSS not only has its main setting introduced as a book summary, but is also meant to be a parody of an existing genre, so it stands to reason there'd be the odd worldbuilding monologue where Shen Qingqiu curses out Airplane for his bad writing and whatnot. Worldbuilding is the primary tool through which the reality of Proud Immortal Demon Way as a setting (that being that it's a shoddily written but still fully system-expanded porn novel) is communicated to the audience.

TGCF is about a wandering banished god and a ghost king, so of course there's going to be lore about different kingdoms they've gone through and their histories with each other. Of course there's going to be a general picture painted of all three realms of this world and what each is like. Of course some defining points of our leads' character journeys are when one couldn't prevent a whole kingdom from collapsing and the other was rebirthed in a volcano as an unimaginably powerful super being. It's a fantasy novel. It only makes sense.

In contrast, though, MDZS feels incredibly zoomed in. All of the conflicts are between individual people or clans of maybe 50-100. There aren't any threats to the world at large (aside from maybe the criticized aspects of society like mob mentality and whatnot, depending on how you view it) and, hell, we don't even know what the kingdom it takes place in is called! The "world" of MDZS (if it can even be called that, as small as it is) is its own individual entity that isn't really connected to the greater universe around it. There's barely any worldbuilding at all--aside from the clan-sect thing, it's a bog standard cultivation setting, and there's no "wider impact" of any of the events of the story* outside the people the story chooses to focus on, because, simply put, there doesn't need to be.

In that way, it definitely makes sense that MDZS has the biggest impact on a lot of people. A smaller scale and more personal stakes might make the story feel more grounded and easy to connect with than, say, a giant statue kaiju mecha battle. (Absolutely no disrespect to the giant statue kaiju mecha battle from me, though. That shit was great)

Also, slight tangent, but this might be part of the reason there are more "serious" crossover fics (i.e. ones with more developed plots then "hey wouldn't it be fun if these characters interacted") between TGCF and MDZS than anything involving SVSSS. MDZS's lack of real connection to everything outside its story bubble makes it very easy to just drop in as a random thing going on in the background of TGCF, so it's not a big stretch to imagine. Hypothetically, this would also work with dropping MDZS into the world of SVSSS, but the tones of the stories are so wildly different that they feel a bit harder to reconcile.

In the end, though, it is still nice to see that even though MXTX has written three cultivation danmeis by now, there's still noticeable variety in not just the stories themselves, but the lenses through which they're told. It makes me very excited for whenever her fourth novel comes out, because because who knows what she'd do with a whole new setting...

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Cultivator and Lawyer, Elle Woods (& Her spiritual dog Bruiser)!

Part 2 (soon)

[menelaus-blue]

i feel like i am absolutely blindsided every few months when i emerge from my lan xichen loving bubble and go online and find out that he is not a universally adored character that people understand is burdened by conflicting responsibilities to those he cares about as well as his job. i genuinely didn't know people perceived him as anything other than a perfect prince until i went onto twitter.

sincerely, an eldest daughter

[violetscanfly]

Once again I offer you art that I didn't post when it was made✌🏻 One thing I have learned is to never throw away your art because even if you don't immediately like it you might some day

[writeitinsharpie]

ever think about the great sect madams of the generation before?

about madam yu, the violet spider, one of few in her generation to earn a title (even her husband was only ever sect leader. even wen ruohan was never regarded by a title other than sect leader wen). about yu ziyuan, about what she was like before years of jealousy and envy twisted her to only her most bitter parts? about the girl who was the third daughter of a sect leader, and then the wife of another, and yet all of her immense martial power meant nothing to the society around her.

about madam jin, known only by her title and never given a name or a natal sect, who was still somehow the closest friend to yu ziyuan. the mother of the sect heir and yet a wife who can do nothing but stand by as her husband dishonors their marriage over and over again.

about madam lan, the murderess locked up for her crimes, never seeing a trial and dying alone, only allowed to see her children once a month. who was she before she was the wife of the lan sect leader? was there a reason she killed the lan elder? did she want that marriage to qingheng-jun? did she even want the children she was kept from?

about the madams nie and wen, who only exist by implication, by the knowledge that their children exist and therefore so must they. about how so little is even implied about them?

[benevolenterrancy]

Can I ask what was your first impression of TGCF and if it turned out wrong or right?

My first impression of TGCF was "this goof continuously ascends to -- and gets kicked out of -- heaven, this is going to be clown town isn't it?"

And honestly I stand by that one, I think I was completely correct**

(**barring the fact that this goof will then go on to experience ever conceivable horror known to man but honestly I mostly expected it after MDZS)

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

…What’s this?? WWX not being a self-sacrificial idiot??

It’s almost like… that isn’t a personality trait…

[lazycranberrydoodles]

a short fully colored lan wangji animatic from march of last year that i didn't post??? yes please! / feat. Death Couldn't Tear Us Apart by LVCRFT

[barawrah]

wwx goes home after reincarnation au

[rhymesswith]

sunshot

[moondal514]

I like MXTX books because in every one of them, the narrative allows the gays* to successfully run away together**

*privilege of main characters and their husbands only

**only after 1-4 deaths from either said main character or husband

[mqfx]

unfortunately my most prominent jyl thoughts start with the soup. & im no expert on ancient chinese kitchens, but given that lotus root & pork soup is something that simmers for hours, i think that as much as the soup is an act of service & a tried and true "we dont have to talk about it" comfort tactic, its also... a great excuse to duck away from everything going on. the kitchen being the safe space, so to speak! and overall jyl seems more avoidant than confrontational? i havent read mdzs for the details in years can you tell but i think theres a good chance under the right circumstances she could have become jfm 2: shijie edition, in which she can read emotional cues fairly well and she doesn't want anyone to be unhappy, but how proactive she might be about resolving a situation is entirely based on how secure she feels. im not forgetting her valiant defence of wwx "i take insults against him seriously" moment! but theres a difference between an eroding stagnant unhappiness & a situation that is more clear cut. im just not confident about how she would raise jin ling in the whole (waves hand) jin situation if she had not been collateral damage. is this making sense 😭

this is all true but let me make clear that my problem with how the fandom conceptualizes jiang yanli is NOT the soup. I'm not mad about the soup and in fact since it's one of basically three things that we even know about her at all, it stands to reason that when we think about her we're Gonna Have To Mention the Soup.

and one can (if one cares enough about her, which I'm sure you do anon) draw reasonable conclusions about her character based on this thing that she does. after all, everything is (supposed to be) important in a given text. I don't disagree with anything you said. she is a careful, conflict-avoidant person due to her tumultuous childhood with abusive/neglectful parents; despite this, she possesses strong morals and protective instincts. I don't think she would've been bad at raising jin ling because unlike her parents, she and her husband actually loved each other and communicate instead of willfully misunderstanding each other then bottling it all up (if she had married someone she didn't love, then yeah she might've been jfm 2. either way we'll never know because guess fucking what mxtx did)

my ISSUE, which fandom can barely acknowledge let alone address, is that "soup" has become a convenient shorthand to refer to her, but it's not a quality. it's a thing that is associated with her, not her personality. this isn't fair! "avoidant" is a trait, "comforting" is a trait, "kind" is a trait, "average" is a trait, soup's not a fucking trait! and some of that is just the general fandom trend of flattening characters in fanon, but the fact that she's a woman and therefore not paid as much attention compared to the ~Complexities~ of the men doesn't help

and I get that sometimes it's not that serious, sometimes it's for Joaks, but why is it that even when joking people can come up with all sorts of qualities for the men but when it's her it's just that she cooks soup? and in more serious discussions, why is her sole purpose apparently to be emotional support or tragic motivation for her brothers? (because mxtx herself wrote her that way!)

why did mxtx not delve into her reactions or point of view (mdzs is the only one of her novels with switching pov, so she could have)? or even just written more scenes with her? (CQL notably gave the women more scenes. the book is abysmal on this regard.....and in others)

tl;dr mxtx did a shit job of developing her character and that of the other women, and fandom makes this problem worse by not giving a shit. the feedback loop continues. your ask and my answer combined are already more words and effort than mxtx spent on writing her

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Broken Roofs and Fixed Perspectives

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[amorremanet]

disclaimer: blah blah blah, this post is just one person’s opinion, blah blah blah, I’m basing said opinion on my own observations but there are no doubt pieces of the story that I’m missing and my opinions should not be treated as fact, something something, DO NOT harass the volunteers at AO3 support or anyone else over any of this, if you harass anyone over this then you are the asshole, period. not a debate, just a fact.

SO, LIKE. I honestly don’t have anything of actual significance to add to the current round of AO3 Discourse because all of my complicated feelings on it have already been said better by other people

(e.g., axing “all media types” tags was a bad idea; some fans may not like them but they are too broadly helpful to be done away with entirely; this is a complex issue, there is likely no way to make literally everyone happy; there should’ve been more transparency and AO3 upset people more by rolling the change out with little to no warning; lumping former “all media types” works into a specific fandom silo was all but guaranteed to piss people off; the Archive userbase being hair-trigger makes a lot of sense after some of AO3’s very high-profile fuck ups in the past few years; however, the three (3) volunteers handling the support tickets are not the people who made the decision and it’s garbage that they’re the ones who are left dealing with so much of the vitriol from upset fans; etc. etc. etc.)

My big question in all of this is: if the people on the tag-wrangling committee who made this decision actually thought that getting rid of the “All Media Types” tag was going to be a broadly popular decision with a lot of support from users, then why didn’t AO3 do more to announce this change to users before it started being implemented?

If we are supposed to believe the version of the story that has come out from AO3’s people, the one where they really did believe that it was in the best interests of the majority of AO3 users to get rid of “All Media Types” tags, then why doesn’t their behavior about the decision reflect that? Why didn’t they post more to let Archive users know that this was coming? Why didn’t they talk up what a great change this was going to be and how many people and fandoms would allegedly benefit from it?

Why is it that most users (readers and authors alike) seem to have found out about this from popular posts on reddit, tumblr, or twitter, all made by aggrieved fans whose fandoms have been negatively impacted by the decision? Because as far as I can tell, there was a single solitary post on the official AO3 tumblr about this, which went up AFTER the change had started rolling out and got its reblogs turned off because of all the backlash?

Not to treat “say that shit with your chest” as uniformly useful advice, but……… Come on, AO3. If you really stood behind the decision to get rid of “All Media Types” tags as much you’re claiming—if you really, truly believed that it was in the best interests of the Archive as a whole and that the majority of Archive users would support you in it—then why didn’t you say that shit with your chest?

Because to me, failing to announce the change ahead of time—and then only doing the bare minimum to let users know—looks like moves to try and hide what’s happening, which does not make me, personally, inclined to believe the “We really thought that this would be a popular decision with broad user support” story

I do not have any explanations for what could’ve happened instead of the official story. Moreover, I’m don’t actually want to speculate on that beyond saying “The way this was publicly handled makes me personally feel disinclined to believe the official story” because conspiratorial bullshit thinking like that doesn’t help anybody (it’s way more likely to cause unnecessary harm, especially by spreading ideas that may sound true enough but are probably not gonna be based in reality, when you get down to brass tacks about it)

But the way that this whole change was handled publicly makes me personally feel disinclined to believe the story as put forth by the official post from AO3, and as a longtime Archive user with millions of words of fic posted on the site, who donates to AO3 and the OTW when I can? I really don’t enjoy feeling like I have even more reason than before to distrust Archive staff :/

[failfemme]

i was suggesting books at my meeting today bc disability theory is my beloved but someone asked for fiction and i got so stumped. bc my favorite disability narratives are all either memoir or like. things that are only Representation for me and my galaxy-brained mutuals.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i think the best and most terrifying part of writing anything, whether you’re writing fic or something original, is that your readers will always find something in your work that you did not intend to put there.

sometimes what they find will delight you, and sometimes it will infuriate you. you will never have control over how your work is interpreted by others, and over time, your opinion about how your work is interpreted will matter less and less and less.

our interpretation of what we make is just one of many, and it is NOT the most important interpretation, and i think the sooner we as creative types make peace with this, the more fulfilling our experience with making and enjoying creative works, both ours and other people’s, will be.