#transwomen and male violence

[valeriesolanasapologist]

Hope you one day you have a kid that turns trans and kills you for being TERF

So a son, then?

[pillarsalt]

hi um

I was? transmasc but recently I’ve been seeing a lot of really misogynistic sexist transphobic stuff from trans community and it’s just been totally accepted, even by other transmascs. It’s been going on for a while but recently there was a murder of a nonbinary afab person and yet the whole trans community here has been silent, instead screaming about a transfem user being banned or something? This isn’t the first time an afab trans persons suffering has been dismissed, but now right after this awful death, i see transfems making posts about how transmascs talking about their oppression are terfs.

I didn’t want to think about it but all i could think about was that it was weird how despite everyone claiming trans men have all this privilege, trans women always come first…they get the most representation, they get the fame the admiration and the opportunities, their voices are always the loudest and their problems always always come first no matter what.

But despite popular belief trans men’s issues aren’t actually less significant, in some cases we suffer far more than trans women especially in regard to sexual violence. Yet we are silenced. We are frequently left poor, we are discriminated against for our sex we are discriminated against for being trans we are discriminated against for being perceived as lesbians. Yet we are made to be silent?

Why are our voices less important than trans women’s?

And all I could think about was that this is how females are treated in every other area.

I don’t know what else to say… I tried so hard not to reach that conclusion because I don’t want to be transmysogynist but I kept coming back to it and I couldn’t find an argument against it. This is how females are treated. This is what male privilege look like. And if trans women have male privilege, then why the fuck am I sitting here letting them talk over me?

I just feel really really angry. Your a blog who I liked your art but I blocked you when I discovered you were a radfem, but I sort of had you in the back of my mind for some reason and now I feel lost and confused, and I don’t think I want to be part of the trans community anymore.

Hey anon, firstly I really appreciate your willingness to have an open discussion with me. This must be weighing on you pretty heavily.

Secondly, holy shit, you're right. While the entire website is treating this user's ban as a national travesty, I haven't seen a single person talking about Nex's murder despite how much they claim to care about trans people. That's really fucking low, and this situation does very much encapsulate the state of misogyny within the trans community.

And you're right, this IS how females are treated in every other area. Throughout history, the suffering and injustice women face is minimized, laughed at, ignored, and when we want to talk about it, we're shut down and told we're making people uncomfortable and our pain isn't that bad. And here we are again, with a female person's death outweighed by a male person's inconvenience.

The denial of sex-based oppression that permeates trans spaces is a blatant lie that can only be held together if nobody is allowed to acknowledge it, and those who do are punished. If the trans community truly stood behind what they say, discussion would be encouraged! The foundation of their movement would be backed up with facts and replicable science! But instead, they'll call you a bigot for pointing out systems of oppression you can see with your own eyes. Because if you do, transwomen's position as Most Oppressed, and therefore the final authority on what's right and wrong, collapses. You are correct when you say that it seems like transwomen always come first; I don't remember who said it first, but just look at magazine covers featuring trans people -- the transwomen are fully clothed CEOs, athletes, movie stars, but transmen mostly get on magazine covers for... being pregnant and half naked. Misogyny is built into every society on earth, and individuals simply calling themselves something else doesn't change that. And when you give male people free reign to be as misogynistic as they want without consequence, they'll grab that opportunity and hold on like their lives depend on it. The way they weaponize transmen's sex against them is indistinguishable from what 'cis' men do to 'cis' women, but if you ever speak out about it, somehow YOU'RE the one hurting THEM. They do not want transmascs to find solidarity with other female people, because then they would have to face the reality of their own place in a patriarchal world, and face the fact that there are experiences exclusive to female people and that we have the right to speak about it. I mean you see shit like this and the motives become completely transparent:

I do find it funny how hard the trans community and their allies work to prevent anyone from hearing what radfems have to say in case they "corrupt" you with mere words. A lot of the time, it's simply listening to transwomen themselves that sparks the feeling of "something's not right here" in your brain. That's what happened with me too. I'll tell you that most of us also used to be proponents of trans activism, many formerly identifying as trans too. You are seeing through manipulation, and I know it's quite shocking to realize. Even when I first started having doubts about trans rhetoric, I thought "well everyone else agrees about this, so I need to shut up and be nice about it even if I don't agree." It's an unpleasant place to be in. The cognitive dissonance is exhausting though, and it becomes impossible to ignore.

The mistreatment of transmasc people in the trans community by transfems is brutal, and It's hard to watch from the outside because I just want to say "Hey, you know you don't have to take this shit, right?" And you really don't. You are not at all a bad person for recognizing the frankly absurd amount of misogyny in the trans community. Feeling lost and confused is shitty, but it's normal for this situation. The best thing you can do is keep observing, keep reading, form your own opinions, and never let anyone tell you to shut up. Above all, prioritize yourself and your mental wellbeing. If you need to remove yourself from gender-related spaces and discussion for a while, that's totally alright. Just know you're not evil or a bigot for not blindly agreeing with everything the trans community has told you. Your opinions and experiences are worthwhile too.

[pigeontakeover]

Literally fuck all of you, a trans woman gets killed and the entire website gets flooded with information about it. And then a teenage trans guy who got kicked out of his parents house for being trans gets murdered on a date by a transphobe, and the ONLY people I see talking about it are transmen. Most of the posts about this kid have under 100 notes. Will someone PLEASE care about transmen? And the news is already burying it as "violence against women". I've already seen one of the stupid fucking TERFS on this website say they're glad he got killed because "all men" or whatever

And if i keep having to deal with seeing stupid fucking transandrophobia deniers be all like, well transwomen have it WORSE than transmen sweaty :) tmen have male privilege (: how about yall shut up

[maeinthekinning]

So before I say this, note I am a disabled transfeminine individual thats not an mra. Say that now cause people like to caricature for those that go against them.

I've seen a growing number of people say men can't face specific struggles or discrimination with being a man as a factor. Or transman can't face specific struggles. Or there struggles are fine or should be downplayed. Or transmen aren't allowed a specific word for the oppression they face.

So discrimination unique to men or masculine individuals and how might impact transmen

Mental health: many men are discouraged from getting mental health for problems they face, this has been a problem the mental health field has known for decades. Many transmen as they transition are pressured more and more to "toughen up" while dealing with possible therapists transphobia

Sexual assault victims: if you count forced to penetrate, coerced, told have to cause married. Then its around the same for men and women

The thing is, there is an assumption that men can't be raped, or should be taken more lightly, or in the case of brittain with forced to penetrate a much lighter sentence on the perpetrator.

This makes it so even if a crisis center you want to go to says for all. You might not get any help cause a man.

For transmen,a unique position, do they go in as a man and get denied for that, or trans and possible transphobia.

"Men are all violent" is a stereotype, but the reverse, men are more likely to be the victim of violence. Infact of murder victims, more then 3 men for every 1 woman.

But going back to the stereotype. It's the reason that white woman are more likely to cross street to avoid a black man then a black woman.

It's the reason a mentally ill homeless woman seems to get more sympathy and money then a mentally ill homeless man...who is also more likely assumed to just be a drug addict

It's the reason for shot to death by police in u.s. is nearly 20 to 1 for men vs women (no statistic anywhere says men are that much more likely to be violent)

And there are a bunch of other problems unique to men ive seen that i didnt list in detail (like men victims of domestic violence)

Transandrophobia/transmisandry isn't just "misogyny plus transphobia" its also specific problems that transmen find themselves facing, some like i listed are general to men but primarily minority men, but some are for being a transman.

And saying transmen face unique struggles does not downplay struggles transwomen face.

Nor does talking about struggles unique to men (ussually more pronounced if other minorities) does not downplay struggles unique to women.

This is not an either or. All issues should be addressed.

[radfem-polls]

Open ended question: what made you “peak”?

For me it was finally realising that women and made to cater to men but men never have to do the same. Example transwomen constantly forcing themselves into women’s spaces but men never have to do the same for trans men. Transwomen still having all the privilege of men while frequently putting down women and telling them they’re not doing enough as allies. So yet again women are constantly being forced to defend themselves and overexplain. Women spaces being shut down on social media like Facebook and reddit but men spaces and women hating spaces being allowed to thrive. Trans subreddits openly talking about how much they hate bio women and how they are prettier and better than any bio women while women in any subreddit including “lesbian” subreddits being made to walk on eggshells or censor themselves. Etc and the list goes on.

Hi thank you for your submission! Everyone it's time for our next...

Saturday open ended question!

Radfems and radleans, what made you "peak"?

Peaking often refers to switching one's perspective from being accepting of gender and/or gender ideology, to becoming gender critical. It can refer to becoming critical of genderism in a conservative context, an LGBTQ context, or both.

Alternatively, peaking can refer to any aspect of becoming a radical feminist (as opposed to mainstream feminist or opposed to mainstream conservativism), such as becoming critical of the sex industry, pornography, BDSM, reproductive restrictions, surrogacy, marriage, etc.

If you're referring to non-gender related peaking, specification would be great for people looking through the replies/reblogs, but you don't have to ofc 🫶🏾

Replying to OP under the cut (opinionated) 👇🏾

Huge agree, it's so clear that whilst trying to erase our sex, they still mistreat and silence us along sex lines. Despite obsfucating the definition of woman, they still know who is a woman when it comes to who to denigrate, debase, and intrude upon!

I personally feel that I peak again and again almost every day; each abuse a new reminder that they are male and of the oppressor class.

Essentially two big reasons I peaked can be summed up as 1) TIMs are sexist and 2) TIMs are racist.

Part 1:

One of the things that peaked me was, back when I was trans-identified, seeing how openly violent trans women were towards trans men. Some would even say the trans men and other tifs were not "truly trans" (and they are??), wish them rape or other violence, for perceived social missteps, or tell them they cannot talk about the oppression they experience for being female (AFAB), lest they perpetuate "transmisogyny."

It was like watching a miniature patriarchy surrounded by a veil of gaslighting and DARVO where it was insisted trans men or other "transmisogyny exempt" people were the real oppressors. It's truly no different to how men, particularly incels, DARVO women, insisting we are not oppressed and somehow inflict suffering onto men (usually by way of having boundaries). No different to "transbians" talking about breaking the cotton ceiling (🤢🤮) and positioning sex with lesbians a form of validation.

Part 2:

Another thing that peaked me is how trans women and other tims talk about black women. It's disgusting! They insist we have some imagined "proximity" to them by way of our "womanhood" being denied to us, but in this statement lies the misogynistic ideas they have around what womanhood even is.

They aliken their oppression to black women being considered "unfeminine," or being limited in what parts of femininity black women can access (which is a real problem in the US due to their history with the enslavement of African Americans, although not all black people are AA in the first place. Which ties into how a lot of LGBTQ politics is stinkingly USamericentric, whereas radical feminists prefer to look at the whole world).

This, however, misses the entire point of what womanhood is in the first place, and displays a grave misunderstanding in how gender seeks to oppress the masses. Harping on the second point first, trans women seem to not understand that femininity isn't a desire for women, by which our oppression takes place when we are denied that desire.

Femininity, rather, is a code of conduct that is forced onto women in order to control us, to control our sexuality, to control our reproduction, and to control our lives altogether. Femininity seeks to quash us under the thumb of men by embodying every aspect of a tortured and enslaved mindset. Everything from heels being considered professional while causing physical pain, short skirts limiting our ability to take long strides, bend down and even walk altogether, (and long skirts limiting our ability to run, climb trees, etc). To the very way we are expected to sit to take up less space. I could go on and on but there are many more analyses of femininity. The point is it is a tool to control us.

Black femininity was just as enslaving as white femininity in AA slavery USA. However it contained an additional aspect of dehumanization that white women weren't subjected to (of course, all women are dehumanized under the patriarchy. but due to our race, black women were/are additionally dehumanized). The modern march amongst black women to achieve hyperfemininity (essentially the expectations for white women ×10) is a seek to be dehumanized in a generalist way rather than racially-specific.

Yet for trans women, this oppressive code of conduct is what they desire in order to "be women." They think this code of conduct is womanhood, and anyone who seeks to fit into it is a woman, and anyone who detests it is not (see: multiple cases of trans women saying "if you hate womanhood so much, why not be a man?" or telling butches they are "closeted transmascs").

This all comes to the first earlier point that trans women misunderstand (or intentionally refuse to accept) the meaning of womanhood in the first place. It is not femininity. It is not an act. It is not a thought process. It is not a feeling. It is not immaterial.

Being a woman requires 3 things.

Be a member of a human species. Currently there is only one human species alive; homo sapien sapien.

Be an adult, which is usually considered the age by which one is mature enough to engage in the world independently. In much of the world this is 18 years old. It may be 16, 21, or even 25.

Be female. Notice how trans women do not fit into this. To be a female human, one must have at least 1 X chromosome along with either no Y chromosome, or the Y chromosome's SRY gene is missing, inactivated, or damaged beyond functionality. This karotypical makeup will result in the development of phenotypical traits that aim to partake in the production of the large gamete ova. This simple definition covers all females, perisex or intersex. Any human who does not meet this definition is a male, whether perisex or intersex male.

In short. Be an human adult female (adult female human, however you like to place the adjectives). It is on this basis of our SEX, female, that we are oppressed. The way black women are "distanced" from womanhood is on the basis of not being considered human. This is completely different to trans women and other tims as they are not women due to not being female. Claiming they are "denied" womanhood the way black women are is racist and appropriative of black women's struggles.

The other argument they have (which is even more racist) is their argument black women are "mistaken" for being male and attacked. It is true that *white* attackers sometimes target black women on assumption they are male. This is because white men are fucking racist and don't know what black women look like. Black men rarely struggle to tell if a black woman is a woman or not, unless that woman has an intersex and/or hormonal condition making her ambiguous.

In the latter, it is not blackness that is "analogous" to trans women's experiences, but possibly intersex. I'm not intersex so that is for intersex people to define to which degree they are in proximity to trans women, if at all. Altogether, mistaking black women for men is because of a lack of exposure to what black people and therefore black women look like. Using ethnic features as a marker of sex distinction is xenophobic and sexist against women. Whether that's a white man beating up a black woman because he thinks she's a man, or white TIMs on Xitter trying to prove a random black celeb looks like a man, it is at the core, racism.

I should iterate, obviously, beating up other people is repulsive, hate crimes are repulsive. Beating up trans women is repulsive. However by shifting the responsibility of these actions from the attackers, often white men or whoever else is most racially/ethnically privileged in a given region, onto black women, TIMs are being racist and misogynistic (misogynoirist in particular).

Of course, not every trans woman or other TIM is a virulent sexist and/or racist. But the core concept of womanhood being a commandeerable trait or thought process, rather than a material state of being that is oppressed in human society on the basis of sex, is sexist, immaterialist, psuedo-religious, and very easily leans itself to racist thinking.

That understanding of gender ideology as fitting into those above traits, my friends, is why I peaked. There's so, so much more I could say, but this is a poll blog and we'll be here all day 😅

If you read this far drop a flower emoji in the comments/reblogs/tags 🌷

Let me know if you want to see more under the cut soapboxing on Saturdays lol 😆

[empress-hancock]

Trans activism relies so heavily on the idea that women are just as bad as men and that misogyny is not real because transwomen need that to be true in order to not he perceived as a threat. If women are just as bad then transwomen (males) are no worse than women (females)! But the truth is that women are not just as violent and transwomen retain male patterns of violence even after transition. This is a reality that they are desperately trying to cover up in order to remain in control. They convince a bunch of teens that actually they’re more likely to be victims of violence (not only are they less likely to be murdered but they are less likely, as individuals, to be victims of hate crimes than entire lgbt organizations are) than perpetrate it and then make those teens too afraid to even question it, lest they become a bigot, and they have the security they need to remain an authority (and eliminate any acknowledgement of the privilege they have on account of being white and heterosexual and male, which most of them are right now)

[radical-fire-vixen]

holy crap, an article that actually says transwomen commit violence, and that women and girls are the targets

it’s like finding the holy grail, only better. AND, it was written by a transsexual male.

[the-rad-menace]

When you ask gendies for proof of "terf" violence:

- a screenshot of a frustrated bi/lesbian woman wishing that dating apps weren't flooded with transwomen.

- an article about prostituted transwomen of color in Latin America being murdered by male clients and pimps.

- screenshots of conservative men using slurs.

- a screenshot of a woman saying she doesn't want to be called a menstruator or uterus bearer.

- that time Putin, a homophobic, misogynistic, murdering, warmongering dictator compared himself to J.K. Rowling.

- a screenshot of a woman saying that it's maybe not a good idea to house male rapists and murderers with incarcerated women.

- a video of transwomen assaulting a man who allegedly insulted them just before the video began.

- screenshots of people "misgendering" Chris-Chan (an incestuous rapist), Ezra Miller (a child groomer/woman beater), Eli Erlick (serial abuser/rapist of female trans ppl), etc.

- an ugly comment by a conservative woman who would balk at being called a feminist of any sort, much less a radfem.

- an article about women complaining about a transwoman in the spa changing room (without mentioning that the transwoman in question was revealed to be a serial sex offender with a history of exposing himself to women and girls).

[eclecticwordblender]

Do you believe that the only possible reason for trans women who are attracted to women to transition is to fulfill some kind of fetishistic gratification?

no, really, i don’t tbvh. i think it is completely possible for anyone to have a problem with their bodies and in a society where gender plays such a central role in shaping our personalities, avenues and all interpersonal relationships it can lead to people having confusions about their genders.

i actually knew a very nice senior at uni who was a biological male who identified and trans. aside from adopting a more gender neutral name and asking people to use different pronouns there wasn’t really much this person demanded. also, they didn’t feel very entitled to women’s spaces and advocated for the addiction of gender neutral ones. furthermore, this person was one of the very few people who advocated for a separate gender studies department instead of replacing the women’s studies department with a gender studies one. i think they were just opposed to the performance of masculinity. i actually really admired them.

i think it is entirely possible for people to conflate gendered behaviour with biological sex and then identify as trans. it doesn’t come from a place of evil but a place of naïvety.

however, the person i mentioned above is a rare minority. most gendies i have seen are actually extremely entitled to women's spaces and perform behaviours conventionally associated with women as a fetishist act. furthermore, even if it were supposedly a very minute minority of gendies who were fetishists, the harm they are doing to women and to the feminist movement is enormous.

i’ve said this before and i say this again, MEN'S FEELINGS ARE NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN WOMEN'S SAFETY.

if we have a society where all kinds of violence and hate crimes against women cease to exist and where women get equal opportunities and their full humanity is recognised, then we can talk about the intent of these "transwomen."

[kittyit]

imagine being a random trans-friendly queer-identified person and accidentally buying a consciousness raising anthology about male violence from transwomen. honestly this review feels amazing. "most abusers are mentally ill and trash people" ty for the analysis

[redditreceipts]

I'm a paid sociologist. The thing that passes me off a lot (and peaked me) is transpeople saying they didn't undergo gender socialisation. It doesn't matter how much they believe they deviate from the gender they were socialised as, gender canalisation, e.g. boys toys and girls toys, is inherent throughout all levels of culture, media and interpersonal relations. Just because that bloke cosplayed as a tween girl for a few years doesn't mean he skipped out on gender socialisation. Gender socialisation is very much something that happens to you due to the perception of gender. It's why we can tell who underwent male socialisation when they threaten to rape/sexually degrade women so casually. Love your stuff, up the union.

Thank you so much!

and yes, gendered socialisation is not something you can opt out of. I guess that if a person socially transitions at like three or something, that would be different, but 99,9% of the trans women and men we're talking about have lived the largest part of their youth as the sex they are born as. And I funnily enough never hear ftms say that they are "male socialised" or something.

Also, I really think that by denying gendered socialisation, they are doing their own cause a huge disservice. I think that the biggest reason for the violent behaviour of men is their gendered socialisation (which doesn't stop when childhood ends btw). And if socialisation didn't have a big impact for a person's later behaviour, we'd have to look at biology - a biology that trans women share 100% of with men (because they are men lmao). So I mean you can start on that route if you want to and argue that men are biologically predisposed to violence, but that would be an even stronger argument to deny transwomen access to women's spaces.

If their argument was that men are more violent due to socialisation, they could at least argue that after doing things to deconstruct their male socialisation, they could be allowed into some spaces traditionally reserved for females. If they say that socialisation is irrelevant, then there would be no way to re-integrate as a man.

(not to say that I am necessarily in favour of that policy, but I think that from a TRA perspective, it would be more productive to emphasise the importance of socialisation because people can unlearn parts of their socialisation, while the same thing is not true for biological sex)

[harrypotterfuryroad]

It pisses me off wikipedia has the gall to say "JK Rowling misgendered a group of transwomen" when she was listing off SEXUAL OFFENDERS. DID THEY NOT FUCKING LOOK AT THE TWEETS BEFORE WRITING SUCH GARBAGE? Predators absolutely deserve to be "misgendered." And it's a locked page. No way to report it.

context is a luxury only afforded to the guys committing the sexual offenses (did you ever think that maybe they wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been misgendered? what if that 14 year old girl was mean to him?) and never to the people accurately describing them as men

like wikipedia is supposed* to be neutral and the concept of misgendering in general is so not neutral, there's no value judgment in the statement "this man is male" but we're supposed to act like it's incitement to violence

[pillarsalt]

I'm in friend groups with trans women and I can't help but notice that my opinions get dismissed a lot compared to them.

The other day I was pointing out misogyny from a gay dude in a group and a trans woman agreed with me. He listened to her not me, she got an apology and I didn't. We said literally the same things.

I'm losing my mind. I can't talk about misogyny because I'm worried I'll get called a TERF. I honestly don't care about what people want to identity as and I'll be happy to oblige but I hate how I can't talk about how we have different needs. Like sure trans people perceived as their gender are in the same group as me, but they face specific fetishization or discrimination that they can talk about and have a word for but if I want to talk my issues being a cis woman I can't. I have to put 200 disclaimers to say I'm not a Bad Person.

Like it genuinely pisses me off so bad when issues get diluted out of misogyny. Like people refusing to say the abortion bans affect primarily women and are women's issues. Non progressive circles ignore me because they hate women and progressive circles don't care about misogyny unless it's towards trans women. I'm ignored everywhere.

This is why it's both hilarious and hair-tearingly frustrating when men who identify as women claim that everyone (especially women) are nicer to them when they are "seen as" women. Really it's that people see men who want others to treat them like women, and treat them not as women, but as a special class of men whose desire to control the way they are perceived is of dire importance. So important that they will threaten dissenters with violence and social ostracization. Have you ever seen any misogynistic man threatened by women with violence for insulting and dehumanizing women? And then how many women are threatened with assault, the loss of her livelihood, even murder for simply asserting that male and female people have different experiences and needs for social services? for refusing to capitulate to the assertion that someone born male can become a woman? for acknowledging a worldwide history of institutional sex-based injustice and subjugation? It isn't that the majority of people actually perceive transwomen as women; they are afraid of what the consequences will be if they don't bend to the fiction about a subcategory of men who are upheld as divinely infallible (and somehow, the epitome of womanhood). And as usual, male opinions, desires, feelings are prioritized over the dignity and class consciousness of female people.

Speaking of consequences, unfortunately, the current state of things means that talking unabashedly about misogyny, even non-trans-related misogyny, makes you a target for "terf" accusations. That's why it's so important that as many women as possible speak up about it. The animosity that feminists endure for talking about misogyny, the oppression and subjugation that women, female people, endure, is not new. "Terf" is just a new iteration of witch, bitch, feminazi. The same old venom. Women have been villainized for fighting back against misogyny throughout history, and even under a veneer of progressivism, male supremacy remains the same. You should not be made to feel like you are a bad person for pointing out obvious inequality. And you don't have to just take it. More and more women are realizing what a sham it all is, you aren't alone. It's hard to stand up for what's right when it's unpopular to do so, but it's very very necessary.

Be well, anon.

[tervenbutch]

this thread is actually so insane. here’s some highlights if y’all don’t wanna touch twitter:

blatant misogyny, but we can’t call it that lest we invalidate the poor transwomens identities 🥺

males threatening violence against women, nothing new

“typical male” the cognitive dissonance is CRAZY

praying that shining a light on the fact trans “women” are just as violently misogynistic as the average man ends up peaking more women, especially trans-identified ones. if this thread doesn’t open some eyes then i don’t know what will

[yuri-for-businesswomen]

trans lurker again . followup question how do u feel abt trans women and their place in feminism

i see them as potential allies in breaking down gender norms, i just feel to work together we have to acknowledge the material reality of biological sex. personally i consider trans people - especially those who undergo medical transition - as their own group who deserves and needs their own advocacy. i feel like transwomen would profit from focussing on working with gender non conforming and especially gay/feminine men more than being included in feminism. gay and effeminate men are objected to male violence which is why there is a lot of potential for allyship here. homophobia at the end of the day is a byproduct of misogyny and a pillar of the patriarchy, which means we have one common goal (destroying the patriarchy), but being male still puts you at a very different predisposition. the experience of a male person who identifies as a woman is fundamentally different than that of a female person, and feminism addresses female needs. gay and bi men, transwomen and any female person have in common that we all suffer under gender norms, which is where we should work together

[sap-woods]

Can we begin to have a real conversation about the intersection of radical feminism - especially feminist or lesbian separatism - and left-leaning zionism?

Both are ultimately movements that demand space and protection — separatism — from males, from gentiles.

Both make their demands in context of a long and violent history. Both demand an ending to an underlying hatred that has been passed down for generations, yet is currently being revised and erased.

Both face a regressive Western left that views most separatism as "exclusionist" and therefore inherently wrong.

Both women - relabeled as "cis women" - and Jews are viewed as being extra-privileged and an oppressor class (again, revisionism), and thus not entitled to a safe space.

Both terms have been redefined as movements led by an oppressor class (e.g., zionists colonized the middle east, radical feminists are killing transwomen) that revise history and erase the real oppressors.

For both, this has been done to create an oppressor for the group deemed to be oppressed - women for trans-identified men, jews for arabs - obfuscating the real threats and powers at play who are less vulnerable (men, british colonialism).

These leftists also often place all their energy on reinvisioning specifically the most powerful males within that class as somehow the most oppressed or righteous (autogynephile predators, terrorist gunmen) and somehow convince themselves to identify with and find compassion for the very men using an oppressed people (palestinian citizens, gender non-confirming people) to justify their violence.

For both, they've reenvisioned the oppressed in ways that become almost mystical or magical, e.g., "trans people have always been here," (which conflates gender non-conformity with modern trans ideology), revising biblical figures as Palestinians, etc.

For both, these misunderstandings (e.g., zionists are white europeans, terfs are gender essentialist bigots) reflect a deep ignorance of real zionism and real radical feminism, yet are spoken about with an absolute confidence and used as propaganda.

Screaming "fuck terfs/zionism" is used to virtue signal yourself as having the correct politics - often with other slogans that lack actual meaningful opinion (e.g., screaming free Palestine, or trans women are women ad naseum) for the sole purpose of useless political posturing.

For both, consideration that perhaps "radical feminists and/or zionists aren't evil" is viewed as a thought-crime and even as literal violence.

Both are wielded — either by their original term or by nonsensical acronym — as insults or as stand-ins for pure evil (fuck zionists, fuck terfs, etc.).

Both targets—feminists, Jews—are able to see the bigotry—anti-Semitism, misogyny—when these insults are hurled at us by the Western left.

Both face a reality in which the left has regressed so far, that some have sought refuge with right-wing Christians who share none of our values, and cause more damage than they are worth.

Identification with either will de-platform you. To exist in a leftist space, you have to rename your views to discuss them at all.

If you are a radical feminist screaming "fuck zionism" or a leftist zionist screaming "fuck terfs," ask yourself: are you examining the movement you hate with the same intellectual dishonesty that the regressive left shows you?