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phoebepheebsphibs · 3 months

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Double-Mutated Mikey

Chapter 29: Affective Science and Emotional Psychology

Continued from the short story written by @boots-with-the-fur-club

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"Well, I think that might be everything, so I should get going..."

"Here, let me help you with that!" Leo says with a snarky smile, his sword slashing the air and creating a portal beneath Agent Bishop, causing him to fall through. The last thing they hear is him yelping before he vanishes completely, the portal snapping closed with a spark of light.

"Leo!" Casey sputters. "Why -- what -- what was that for?!"

"What?" Leo asks nonchalantly with a shrug and smug smile. "I was only helping him get home."

"You just wanted him gone," Casey accuses.

"That, too."

"Leo!!"

"Oh, come ooooooon!" Leo groans, leaning against his katana. "What's the big deal? I don't know him yet, and until I know him better, I don't wanna trust him!"

"Leo, he literally just risked his life against superpowered bounty hunters to keep Mikey safe," Casey reminds him.

"Yeah, yeah...." Leo sighs, lifting the katanas again and sheathing them.

"Besides, I already told you guys we can trust him!" Casey reminds him. "Doesn't my word count for anything?"

"Yeah, but that was in an alternate future where things kinda went south," Leo says with a roll of his eyes. "So forgive me if I don't warm up to him so quickly."

"What is up with you?" Casey asks angrily. "You were never so bullheaded when you were the leader of the resistance --"

"Yeah, well, I'm not that guy." Leo's voice is stern and strong. Cold. Tired of going through the same conversation over and over again. "And we spoke about this. Several times. I don't think it's appropriate to talk about the future --"

Casey growls loudly and throws his hands up into the air.

"Rrrgh! You always say that! And I'm sick and tired of it!"

He jabs a finger into Leo's chest and pushes him back a step as he fumes with fury.

"Why won't you let me talk about my life?!"

"It's not just your life, Casey," Leo refutes, pushing his hand away. "It's... it's more than just that! It's our lives, too! And I don't want you to unintentionally weigh them down by telling them what happens to them --"

"You don't know that's how they'll react!" Casey argues. "And it's not like I'm going to just waltz up and start telling them how they'll die! It won't even happen anymore!"

"It's not just that, Mikey may never be the person he was before the double mutation! How do you think he'll react to hearing he was a mystic warrior when he doesn't even remember what his ninpo is?! Or Raph, you can barely even remember what he looked like in the future! What are you gonna tell him about his life?! You don't know that they'd be willing to hear that stuff!"

"It wasn't all a horror show!" Casey snarls. "My life wasn't a complete abomination! How would you know, you won't even hear about it! The others might not feel the same way you do!"

"But they might!" Leo yells back. "And I'm the leader, I have to make that kind of decision for everyone, and I say that --"

"THAT'S IT!" Casey screams. "I've been trying not to cause a scene or pick a fight, but I've had it! I've snapped, this is me snapping -- I'm gonna fight you on this now!! And you're gonna listen, got it?!"

Leo's goes wide-eyed with shock, his mouth opening and then closing as Casey continues to shout.

"I wanna talk about my life! I want to talk about my family! It's not fair that you ask me to not talk about that stuff!! It's my entire home, world, everything I ever cared about! I can't just sweep my whole life under the rug and pretend it never happened!"

Casey starts pacing as he spirals.

"You guys were everything to me! And it's not that I don't like you as you are now, I do, you're great and you're like a new family to me -- but you're not the family I grew up with! You're right, you're not my Sensei, and you'll never be him no matter how hard you try! He was a fierce, stoic leader of the apocalypse; he led armies and fought alien monsters everyday of his life and he only had one arm! You are not him, and no matter what happens, this world will never be the one I knew. So you will never be the Leo I knew. You'll never become my Sensei..."

Leo looks down at the ground sadly, hand reaching up and rubbing at his elbow. He looks guilty, if not a little sick to his stomach.

"...Casey, I --"

"And I get why you didn't want me to talk to them about the future, but what does it matter now?! It's never going to happen! I'll never see my family again! Why shouldn't I tell Donnie about all the amazing things he did and created?! Why shouldn't I tell Mikey about how cool he was and how he could fly?! And don't you think Raph would like to know that he was a respected hero?! Or that I should tell April that she was the most kick-butt commander and the youngest human to lead a frontline attack ever?! And don't you think I deserve a chance to ask my Mom questions about her life?! Do you know how crazy and weird this whole thing is for me?! DO YOU?!"

Leo flinches at Casey's volume.

"I... I'm sorry..."

"Dude, I am losing my MIND!" Casey screams, throwing his hands up in the air before wringing them through his hair. "Everyone treats me like the plague! They have no idea what to say to me, and I have no idea what to say to them! If I don't talk to someone about my life, about the things I did, or the people I loved and grew up with, I'm gonna explode! I can't just pretend that they didn't exist! I can't just pretend that my Sensei didn't exist!"

Leo looks pale, like he might puke. Something about the idea of 'not existing'... Casey doesn't notice though, and continues.

"And it HURTS! It hurts how I can't talk about them, about myself, about any of it!! And it wouldn't hurt so much if I could see them again, it wouldn't be so bad if I didn't know that they were totally gone! But they are now! I didn't even get a freaking choice about it, I was literally thrown into THIS WHOLE SITUATION and -- I have nothing anymore! No pictures, no family photos or letters or anything! My childhood home doesn't exist, my life doesn't exist, I MIGHT NOT EXIST NOW. Do you even know the existential dread I have about an alternate timeline me being born?! Everything about the future has changed, and..."

Casey's fists shake as hot tears streak down his bright red and infuriated cheeks.

"...and that means that I'll never, EVER see my family again. You can't be the Leonardo I knew. You never will be. He's dead and gone and erased from existence. And I'm stuck here with that knowledge. I love you guys, I really do, but... you'll never be what I want. You can never be the people I loved the most, and... I don't want you to be them. You can't replace them, and even if you could, I'd never want you to have to go through what they did to become who they became. I'm not asking for that, I don't want that, I just... I don't want to dishonor their memory by ignoring them. I don't want to forget them."

Casey heaves a hot and angry breath, grunting and growling before composing himself.

He stands there, glowering as Leo stands before him, frozen stiff. The two of them are still reeling from Casey's outburst. Finally, when it gets just awkward enough, Casey brings his eyes up to the leader.

"...Well? Don't you have something to say?" he asks, glaring at Leo.

He was ranting so much, he didn't even really look at him. Now he is.

Leo looks very, very small.

The slider refuses to meet Casey's eyes, simply holding himself sheepishly and looking very guilty. His head is slowly retracting into his shell. His forehead is wrinkled, his lips pursed and tight. His feet shuffle in the sand, moving back and forth as he tries to force himself to speak.

"...You're right," he mumbles. "Of course you're right. I... I had no just cause to make you stay quiet. It was totally unfair, and you should be able to talk about it. So... go ahead. You can talk about it."

Casey stares at Leo. He's... letting him win the argument? Why? He didn't yell that hard at him, did he? Leo kicks the sand as he continues.

"...I mean, I can't really stop you from talking about it anyways. You're your own dude, and I'm not your Sensei, like you said... I should never have asked that of you in the first place. I'm sorry."

Casey feels uneasy about this. Yes, he's relieved he got what he wanted, but something in the way Leo is taking this... rolling over and acting all wounded and weird. Giving up and giving in too easily.

Leo isn't like this.

He's cocky and confident and stubborn.

What's going on?

"Leo --"

"A-and I'm sorry," Leo continues, voice cracking slightly. "I'm really sorry for everything you had to put up with and all the stupid stuff I put you through, and --"

"Leo, wait, I --" Casey tries again.

"I just didn't want to freak them out over the whole 'dying in awful ways' part of the future, but since that's not going to happen anymore, and... who knows, maybe they'll take it better than I did, I mean... i-it wasn't their fault, and --"

"Wait, what do you mean 'their fault'?" Casey questions.

Leo finally looks at him. Casey can see the strain in his eyes from how he's trying to keep from crying.

".....Nothing. F-forget I mentioned it," Leo mutters, turning to walk away.

"No, wait," Casey says, grabbing his arm and tugging him back. "I got a chance to yell, now you should too. What's going on? What aren't you telling me?"

Leo doesn't look back at Casey.

"I don't have anything to say. You're right. I was wrong. End of story."

His lips curl and he pulls his arm away.

"I'm... I'm so sorry, Casey. I never meant to hurt you, I just... I don't know..."

"Neither do I. What's going on with you?" Casey asks.

Leo doesn't respond, apart from a sharp inhale and shaky exhale.

He takes one of the katanas and slices a portal open.

"....I think maybe I should just go. I.... I need to be alone."

Leo steps through the portal, and Casey hears him mutter under his breath.

"...it would probably be better for everyone if I just left, anyways..."

Casey yelps in protest, but Leo vanishes before he can get him to stay and talk it out.

He grumbles. Why can't Leo ever just listen?

No, he did listen. That's not the problem.

The problem is he won't talk.

....Maybe he and his Sensei are more alike than he thought...

Casey peeks around the corner and watches as his Sensei is getting patched up by his twin, 'Uncle Tello.' The purple-clad turtle mutant grumbles as he pulls items from his all-purpose overalls and adjusts Leo's prosthetic arm.

"And how long has it been acting up like this?" Donatello asks.

"Not that long," Leonardo says, clearly lying through his teeth.

"Leo. How long."

"Um.... maybe.... a month?"

Donatello smacks Leonardo upside the head.

He growls as he pulls the arm off of his brother's shoulder, revealing a long halo of rust and torn flesh from where the metal in the robot arm has been digging and scraping.

"....Leo."

"Yeah?"

"I don't think I have to tell you that this is not satisfactory."

Leonardo chuckles.

"Heh heh, yeah... I figured."

"Did you know how bad it was?" Uncle Tello asks him, though the question is so laced with irritation that it sounds more like an interrogation.

"Sort of." Leonardo shuffles in his seat on Uncle Tello's desk. "I knew it hurt, and that it needed repairs... but, uh..."

Leonardo tilts his head to get a better look at the wounds.

"Yeah, that's pretty gross. Sorry, hermano."

Donatello grumbles and gags as he cleans the injuries and disinfects them. Everyone knows that Donatello prefers machines to humans, and Leo is the medic of the two. Donatello hates the sight of blood. He gags again as he scrapes the dried blood off of Leonardo's arm stub and cleans it with antibiotics and antibacterials.

"You know, this is how you get tetanus or septicaemia or --"

"Yeah, yeah, I get it Dee..."

"I don't think you do. Something like blood poisoning in the apocalypse is not to be taken lightly, 'hermano'. And this is the third time you've stalled on coming to me for repairs. What's wrong?"

Casey sees his fearless leader hang his head in shame before covering it with his non-robot hand.

"I just... I knew we were low on supplies, and didn't want to bother you."

Uncle Tello looks at Leonardo with an expression Casey Jones Jr. cannot name. Regret? Anger? Confusion? Sadness? Maybe all at once? Donatello is never easy to read. But there is a hint of understanding in his eyes as his brow furrows a bit more.

"...Is this about --" he pauses, swallowing before whispering the rest, just quiet enough so that Casey has to strain to hear the words. "Is this about what happened with Raph?"

"Maybe," Leo whimpers. "...Yeah."

"That wasn't your fault. He was just too injured, and... there wasn't anything we could do for him."

Leonardo grips onto Donatello and cries into his overalls. Donatello holds him and rubs his scarred shell.

"But if you'd had the supplies you needed -- If I hadn't taken the last of it for my arm --"

"Leo, you went on a three-day trek by yourself to try and save him."

Leonardo looks up at Donatello. He's trembling. Uncle Tello rolls his eyes and pats him on the back, a mechanical arm reaching out to hand him a tissue. Leonardo chuckles as he takes it.

"...Why haven't you said anything about this? Why didn't you tell anyone you felt this way?"

"There's more important things in this war than my regret," Leo mumbles.

Uncle Tello raises a drawn-on eyebrow.

"That's dum-dum talk. And you know it."

"Donnie, I'm serious. They need me to be a strong and stoic leader, and I don't have time to just sit around moping --"

"And you think we have time for this kind of thing? Where you refuse to address what's wrong and you let it fester until you end up fainting after a meeting because the pain from your prosthetic was too much?"

Leonardo stays silent.

"...Kick a mutant while he's down, why don't ya."

Donatello huffs an exasperated sigh.

"I don't want you to end up like Raph. You need to tell me if something is wrong. If not me, then Dr. Feelings."

"Pizza Supreme, no," Leo jokes. "I'll try to do better."

"You'd better."

Leonardo chuckles as Donatello finishes with the bandages on his stub and shoulder, then moves onto the prosthetic. Casey continues to watch nervously from around the corner until his Sensei turns and sees him. He smiles and motions for him to come forward. CJ climbs up to sit on his lap and stares up at his Sensei.

He looks so much older than he really is. His tattered and worn mask has tear stains and wrinkles. He's pale and tired. Casey hugs him, hoping the hug will help him to feel better. It's what Master Michelangelo would do. He vaguely recalls Raphael hugging him as well.

Sensei Leonardo hugs him back, rubbing his hand over his spine. Everything will be fine, he'll get better and he won't cry as much because the world is not lost and it may be sad, but everything will work out.

Casey hugs his dad tighter.

Raph relaxes happily, watching as Donnie builds a miniature civilization in sand. Mikey had run up a few minutes earlier and asked to join in the fun. Don had reluctantly allowed Mikey to assist, gathering water and mixing it with sand. He was having a fun time playing with the muck and splashing it around before passing handfuls to Donatello, who used it like brick and mortar in his tiny colony.

Raph smiles every time Mikey cackles with his sensory beach sludge entertainment. He smiles when Donatello finishes a new house and in self-congratulation throws his head back and yells 'I've done it again!' like a mad scientist before calming and moving on to the next one. He smiles when Mikey finds pebbles and shells in the sand and offers to help decorate a few of the buildings, which Donatello agrees to. Mikey's sense of colour and design is still on point, and his additions to the homes make the tiny kingdom the envy of the world. He even uses his claws to create delicate and intricate indented drawings and designs on the walls, like vines climbing up the castle towers or brick patterns or flowers or stars. The two work in tandem to make the town a masterpiece.

Even though the trip was unplanned, everyone is enjoying it immensely. April promised to come down today after classes. Cassandra suggested that she might also hang out after a mission taking down another sub-par plot from the Foot Clan. He hopes they can make it. April loves the sun and sand and surf; and while Raph isn't sure how Cass feels about it, he thinks that she could use a nice rest and vacay.

At the very least, he's glad that his brothers are enjoying it!

"...Raph! Raph!"

...He didn't just jinx it all, did he?

Raphael turns to see Casey Jr. running up to him.

Mikey sees Casey running and whistles a chirp at him to say 'hello'.

Donatello waves a mechanical arm at him in greeting.

"What's up, CJ?" Raph asks with a smile.

"Rrrracing again?" Mikey asks.

"No, no... I was just... I need to talk to Raph..."

He turns to Raphael and speaks in a much quieter tone.

"Something's off with Leo," he pants. "I... I just had an argument with him..."

"That's not out of the ordinary," Raph jokes halfheartedly.

He regrets the joke immediately when Donnie glares up at him.

Donnie told Raph about the many times he and Mikey had been forced to listen to their screaming matches. And before his mutation, Mikey had also sort of more-or-less-very-vaguely-so-as-not-to-worry him-mentioned to Raph that their arguments may or may not have caused a few restless sleeps and nights where Mikey would just cry himself to bed. He didn't say that exactly, and he wouldn't outright admit it, but Raph had long since learned to read between the lines. He is fairly certain that Mikey couldn't even remember that conversation now, much less the many arguments he'd overheard before the invasion. Raph secretly hopes that is one thing he'll never recall...

"This was different," Casey remarks. "It wasn't even a fight, it was more of just me yelling and Leo simply taking it. He didn't fight back. He didn't even really say anything."

"What did you argue about?" Raph asks, concern growing.

"Just... the same old stuff," Casey mumbles. "I was mad because he didn't want me to talk to you guys about the future."

"Why not?" Raph is sure he already knows the answer.

"He thought that knowing how things ended for everyone would kind of... mess you up."

Casey sighs.

"Saying it out loud... it makes sense. But, not everything that happened was bad! A lot of it was just... hiding in bunkers and hanging out. Movie nights. Scouting."

Raph nods slowly. He knows that the future was scary, but even still... Casey shouldn't bottle it up. He might overshare and trauma-dump on occasions, but that's common for people who have been through a lot.

"So, what did Leo say?" Raph inquires.

"He said I could talk about it with you guys now."

"Just like that?" Raph asks, surprised.

Leo had -- in an inebriated state from the painkillers -- told Raph a Cliffnotes version of what Casey had told him. Everyone dies fighting the Krang. He knew that was why Leo had sacrificed himself, and he knew that was why he'd asked Casey Jr. not to bring that stuff up again.

"Just like that," Casey nods. "He was mostly quiet, and took it like a sad puppy. And then when I asked him if he had anything to say about it... he just went on a rambling apology. I've never seen him so... I don't even know what word to use. Remorseful, maybe?"

As much as Raph is glad that Leo had relented with CJ... This didn't sound like something he'd do. At least, he wouldn't be so meek about it! Casey is right, something must be off.

"Where did he go?" Raph asks.

"He portaled away. He said he wanted to be alone, and then... something about 'it being better for everyone' or something."

Raph immediately gets up.

"Donnie."

Donatello looks up from his architecture.

"Raph," he answers, matching the tone but with no seriousness behind it.

"Where's Leo's tracker?" Raph urges.

Donnie looks down at his wrist and mutters.

"Good news, he's somewhere on the island. It looks like he's near the north side. His altitude is inclining, so I suspect that he is climbing up the mountain."

Raph nods.

"Okay. Can you give me your wrist tech so I can track him?"

Donnie scoffs.

"As if I would let you touch something so precious that by this point it counts as a part of my person!"

Raph growls low.

"But I can send you a link to the tracking program."

Donnie taps away for a moment before a ping on Raph's phone lets him know that he now has access to at least Leo's tracker. Raphael nods with a grunt to let Donnie know he got it, and walks towards the beach.

"Sh-should I come with?" Casey asks, cautiously stepping after him.

"Nah, Raph's got this," he replies, waving a hand nonchalantly at him. "I'll call if something's up. But I get the feeling this is a brother situation."

Mikey turns to see him go and churrs. Raph pats him on the head to assure that everything is okay before going through the rainbow archway and trekking into the jungle.

Raph wanders across the wooded lands, following the tracker. The glowing blue image of his younger brother's face travels in circles around the center of the island. It takes Raphael longer than he'd like to admit to realize that he's climbing a looping path around the mountain and not just playing ring-around-the-rosie with the ginormous hill. Raph passes a troop of monkeys that hoot at him as he walks through their territory. Leo's icon continues to go around and around and around. Raphael gets tired of walking and wonders if he's even going in the right direction. He climbs a tree to get a better view. While climbing up he meets a family of toucans. One squawks loudly at him.

"Pardon me, folks," he says before continuing upwards.

Raph looks past the branches and sees the lay of the land. He can clearly see the island's dormant volcano, tall and towering into the sky. He spots something like a ledge around it, several cliffs that bunch together and lead upwards. He wonders if he could see Leo climbing it...

Nope. Can't see jack squat. Especially with his eye...

Raph climbs down and heads toward the volcano. After an hour or so, his phone chimes. Leo's icon has halted on the mountain trail, off-center towards the north-east.

The icon doesn't move from there, it stays stationary. Raph is curious, but relieved that he doesn't have to chase Leo all over the island.

He keeps going for the mountain, traversing across canyons, rivers, a lake here and there, sand pits, tropical gardens with flowers he's never seen before and spiders that almost look as big as Big Mama and snakes that are long and fat and could probably swallow him whole.

Oh, and a few more monkeys. Man, this island is really populated.

Raph eventually makes it to the volcano, and starts climbing up the cliffside before finding a rocky pathway that leads near to the top.

He walks along the path, rounding the mountain for quite a while. He wonders why Leo just walked along this path rather than portaling to the top. It's so boring and arduous...

And quiet.

Raph finds himself thinking about things, enjoying the peace and contemplating the events of the day, the week, the month, the year. It's calm, and he can almost hear his own thoughts as he continues to walk. At some point, he realizes that the reason he can hear his thoughts is because he's been talking to himself, making company with his own voice as he tries to entertain his mind. He talks about everything that's been on his mind, from the latest issue of Jupiter Jim, to worrying over Mikey. It's somewhat therapeutic, actually, getting to be alone and think things through...

Oh. So this is why Leo walked instead of portaling.

Raph is about to die of exhaustion and boredom when he turns a curve and sees a ledge leading out, overlooking the island.

Leo sits on the edge of the cliff, chin resting on his knee as his mask tails float calmly in the breeze.

"Hey, Leo."

The slider turns slowly, movements somewhat sluggish and melancholic. He feigns a smile.

"Hey. I saw you coming up."

"Mind if I sit?" Raph requests.

"It's a free island," Leo shrugs.

"Good, cuz' Raph's about to pass out," the snapping turtle gasps, slumping besides his red-eared slider brother as he works to catch his breath.

He waits in silence for Leo to say something. Leo's always the one to start a conversation, just like how he's always the one to try and have the last word.

But Leo is quiet. That's not a good sign.

Raph looks over at him. He looks kind of like how he did during the first month post-Krang.

Tired. Emotionless. You could almost mistake his demeanour for serenity, but he's separated from the others. Casey probably picked the perfect word. Remorseful. Something is holding him back.

"You okay?" Raph asks.

Leo had apparently been zoning out, and jumps a little at Raphael's voice.

"Yeah. Well... no. I mean..."

He turns to look at his brother.

"I don't know, actually. Physically, I'm fine. But mentally, emotionally? I'm not sure what to say."

"Well, start simple. Are these good feelings or bad ones?"

Leo looks away, concentrating on the ocean before them.

"...Probably bad."

"Oh. Wanna talk about it?"

Leo smiles a bit before bringing his dangling leg up from over the edge, burying half of his face behind his knees and wrapping his arms around them, attempting to bundle himself together.

"Casey talked to you, didn't he?"

"Yeah. He said you guys had a spat."

Leo chuckles.

"You could say that."

"He said you were acting strange after. I just wanted to check up on ya."

Raphael places a hand on Leo's back, scooting in a bit closer.

"You can tell me about what's bothering you. I'm here to listen."

Leo glances out of the corner of his eyes to look at Raph. His brother smiles at him, trying to make him feel safe and comfortable.

"...I guess I felt badly. About what I put Casey through. And I started thinking about what I put everyone through, and then he mentioned that I'll never be the Leo he knew, and... he's right. And it's stupid, because it will never happen, but... I'm terrified of what he would say if he saw me."

"Who? Casey's Leo?" Raph asks.

"Yeah I know, it's a dumb 'what-if', but I'm scared all the same. He was this huge monument, the king of the end of the world, a hero and an inspiration, yadda yadda yadda, more apocalypse propaganda. But I'm the guy who almost doomed humanity. I'm the guy that was so stupid and cocky that I got you captured. The brother that got Mikey and Donnie trapped in a tunnel with a monster train. The leader that brought the key to the Krang. I'm --"

"Okay, I get it," Raph says, stopping him from continuing. "But Leo, that wasn't your fault. You didn't know what that thing was, you couldn't have! You ain't psychic, and you did your best."

Raph sighs.

"...And part of it's my fault too, I pushed you too hard. I gave you the wrong idea about what being a 'hero' means. I just wanted you to take things a little more seriously and be responsible, but you just sacrificed yourself! That was a selfless thing to do, sure, and maybe you were just trying to take responsibility for us, but I never meant..."

He pauses, thinking maybe he stumbled across something he didn't mean to when Leo starts crying. Raph panics.

"Leo? What? What did I say?"

Leo can't speak for a moment, and Raph holds him close. Leo just shakes, crying into his big brother for what feels like an eternity. Raph can feel him holding in the sobs, desperately catching his breath to force out a meager sentence.

"...I ...I thought I was gonna die..."

Raph nods, stroking Leo's shell in long strides to soothe him. He knows that Leo knew what he was getting himself into. He knows Leo understood what being trapped in the Prison Dimension with the Krang Prime meant. He knows Leo knew that his sacrifice was just that, a sacrifice. He knows what Leo thought was going to happen.

"...I wanted it."

Raph stops. His hands freeze in place, his breathing halts, his head goes numb. He slowly looks down at Leo, shaking and sobbing in his arms.

"I... I wanted it to end. At first I expected it, I was just waiting for it to happen... I kept waiting. But... then I almost begged him for it! Because it just hurt and hurt and hurt, a-and --"

Raph is trying to calm him down, stroking Leo's head gently.

"Leo, that's not --"

"And I thought about the hurt I put you through! How much trouble I cause, how many times my stupid ego got in the way, and -- and I'm sorry!"

Leo wails, clinging onto Raph as tight as he can, afraid that if he lets his brother go he'll leave him like the sorry, pathetic, wretched little pest that he is.

"I'm so sorry! I'll always be sorry, I know I screwed it all up, I know I failed, I know I -- I know, and I'm sorry, I'm just -- just -- sorry..."

To Leo's surprise, Raphael pulls him even closer, matching his tight embrace. Raph's tail curls around them both. Leo can hardly catch his breath, but he's grateful for the tight hold that Raph has him in. It grounds him, it keeps him safe, he can't think about the infinite failures and the monsters waiting for him in the Prison Dimension if Raphael is protecting him like this.

"I wanted to... to make up for what happened.... I hoped that... that maybe it would..."

"No."

Raph squeezes him tighter, forcing him to stop.

"No. No. That wouldn't... Leo, how could you even think...?"

"I thought you'd all be better off without me--" Leo whimpers.

"No!" Raph says again, pulling Leo away from his chest.

Leo whines, trying to get back into the embrace, wanting to have his brother's comfort but afraid to see his face or meet his eyes.

"I just -- I hate myself, Raph," he admits. "I just hate everything about myself. I hate what I do to this family, I hate the kind of leader I am, I hate how I can never be real and always make stupid corny jokes, I hate how scared I always am, I hate it, I hate me, I hate --"

"Leo," Raph says, lowering his head to try and get him to meet his eyes. "I don't know how to make you understand, but I love everything you hate about yourself."

Leo stares up at him.

"Sure, you being scared sucks, but everyone gets scared."

"I feel like I'm scared all the time, now..."

"I can help you with that. And I may be self-projecting here, but I think the fear you have now is mostly just about us and your role as leader, right?"

Leo nods, bowing his head low as he rests it against Raph's chest.

"You love your family and you care about them," Raph continues. "You're smart and you see every angle. That's what makes you a great leader. I love the kind of leader you are. I really do. I was never really that good at being leader --"

"You were a great leader!" Leo counters.

"And so are you," Raph smiles. "I was terrified as leader, and usually I ended up causing all kinds of problems. Remember the hippo costume? The F.A.B. four? Or how I had us trust Big Mama? Or any of the other countless times I screwed up?"

Leo chuckles softly.

"Point made. But Raph --" Leo looks up at him, eyes wet and sparkling, "I really did like you as leader. You fit the role better than I ever could."

"But Pops chose you to be the leader. And I honestly have to agree with him. You might not like it, but you have the head for it."

Leo sighs and nuzzles against Raph's chest. His older brother rocks him back and forth as he continues.

"And I love your jokes too, man. You always crack me up, and you make even the scariest situations seem normal. Maybe it's not the best coping mechanism, but definitely not the worst. And for real, your jokes are hilarious, not stupid."

Raph feels Leo smile a little against his plastron. He can also feel tears streaming down Leo's face.

"And Leo. This family would be nothing without you."

"But --"

"Ah-ah-ah!" He stops Leo before he can argue the fact. "NOTHING. Without you. I mean that. You've saved our skins countless times. You take charge in ways I never could when I was leader. Our bros listen to you, dude. And beyond being a leader, we love you because you're our brother. And even beyond that, we will always love you because you are our Leo."

"But, Raph..."

Leo reaches up and traces the crack in his plastron, the hole in his shell. The scars under his mask.

"...Your eye..."

"It'll heal," he says with a smile. "And it was not your fault. Stop blaming yourself for something that was not your fault and start seeing yourself the way I do. Leo, I wouldn't even BE HERE if it weren't for you! You pulled me out of the Krang, you got me back to normal! You got me home."

Leo looks up at him, eyes searching for anything to say that Raph is insincere, or hiding some anger or blame. He could search for eternity. He'd never find anything other than love.

Leo bursts into tears and wraps himself around Raph again.

"I'm sorry, I'm so so so so sosososososo so sorry.....!"

"I know, bud."

Raphael holds Leo close.

"I know you're sorry... But I love you too much to let you stay in these thoughts. Tell me what I have to do to help, and I will."

Leo is quiet for a moment before looking up at him with a pout.

"Carry me back?"

Raph laughs as he picks Leo up and carries him on his shoulders back down the mountain.

"Sure thing, bud. So long as you fight those intrusive thoughts, okay?"

Leo nods, hugging Raph again.

"Whatever you say, leader."

"I'm serious. I don't like the way you've been treating yourself."

"I'm not exactly having the time of my life about it, either."

"Leo," Raph scolds.

"Sorry, but you said you liked my jokes!"

"Yeah, yeah," Raph chuckles, hopping over a light crevice in the path. "But for real, we gotta work on this. You need to stop beating yourself up and cut yourself some slack. If you can forgive me for everything stupid I did when I was leader, and for all the hurt I caused when I was krangified, then why can't you forgive yourself?"

Leo pauses, wrapping his arms under Raph's chin and resting his cheek on his face. He thinks it over.

"...I dunno. I guess I should, but I feel like hold myself to a different standard than you guys. I can forgive you because I know you never meant anything cruel or bad."

"And you didn't either, right?" Raph questions.

"That's the thing," Leo sighs. "I don't really mean any malice behind my dumb decisions, but I know every reason for those decisions. I can't give myself the benefit of the doubt or any grace for what happened because I know every dark detail. Even if it isn't a big thing, even if it's just a stupid mistake, like I spilled the milk or something. I still should have known better. I expect better. I can't control what you guys do, but I can control what I do, so that means I should be better about everything."

Leo pouts.

"And I'm not."

"Leo, you've only been leader for maybe a year and a half by this point," Raph reminds him. "And you had to fight a whole alien invasion, and you're only sixteen. Most sixteen year olds just have to worry about their drivers' exam, not stopping a war or battling mutants!"

Leo sighs.

"I guess you're right... but I can't really help feeling this way."

"You gotta get out of your head, man."

"I know," Leo mopes. "I just... don't know how."

"I'll help you figure it out," Raph promises. "We all will."

Casey paces across the sandy shores, walking along the waters' edge. The waves creep up and try to attack his feet, but he steps out of the way before they can get to him. He's been pacing for a while. Raph hasn't come back yet. Leo hasn't come back yet. Every ten minutes, Casey would ask to see the tracker and would check on them. After the seventeenth time, though, Donnie got sick of it and sent him a link to the trackers as well.

Casey looks down at the tracker on his phone again.

The two had finally met up and paused at one location for a long time before leaving together down the mountain. It looks like they finally reached the bottom, and are trekking out of the jungles.

Casey paces again.

The tide laps up and tries to get his toes. Casey steps out of the way. The tide retreats.

Casey paces.

He shouldn't have gotten so mad. He shouldn't have yelled. He didn't mean to make such a mess...

Casey avoids the waves again and watches them slide back into the water.

Casey doesn't pace. He watches.

The waters bubble and foam, tiny tides folding over each other and spilling into one another. They float back and forth, getting closer with each wave. They leave traces of the foam and bubbles in the sand as they recede. Tiny clams or sand crabs are revealed as the water erodes the gravel, but they crawl back under the sand quickly to be hidden away again before a bird can get them. Tiny fish with silver scales swim in schools in the deeper areas of the water. The waves crash again, coming closer to attack his feet.

This time, he lets them.

The water runs over his sandals. It's a little cold, but not uncomfortable. The foam covers his toes, grit gets stuck under his feet, a stray strand of seaweed wraps around his ankle. He sinks in a little as the waves drag trace amounts of the sand out from under his shoes.

Casey hears a rustling from behind him, and Raphael saunters out with Leonardo climbing off of his shoulders.

They're talking, smiling. Though Leo looks exhausted.

Casey runs up to the duo.

"Raph! Leo!"

Raph turns and waves him down, smiling brightly. Leo shrinks and looks guilty again.

Casey slows and fidgets with his hands as he approaches them, unsure of what to say. Raph turns to see Leo hiding behind him and breathes loudly through his nose. He turns back to Casey, and rolls his eyes at the awkward tension in the air. This won't do. He pulls Casey a little closer and directs him to Leo.

"We talked. Now you two talk. Patch things up. Leo, don't hold back. He needs to know. When you two are done, come and find us so we can talk it over with Donnie and Mikey and Pops --"

"I-I don't want Mikey to know yet," Leo whispers. "He's already got enough on his mind, and I doubt he'd understand... I don't want him to worry."

Raph stares him down.

"Fine. That's your call. But Donnie and Pops should know. And I think we should also tell April too, but that's your decision. She'd wanna know."

Leo nods in melancholy agreement. Raph waves again at Casey before heading towards the portal.

Casey and Leo stand awkwardly, each one shuffling their feet and shifting their weight while they try to find the words they want to say.

"Casey--"

"Leo--"

They both pause.

"You first," Casey offers.

"Okay. Um... I-I'm sorry for... everything. Again."

"I don't care about that anymore, I wanna know why you were acting weird and why you ran away," CJ responds.

Leo swallows. Casey can see he's shaking a little.

"I... I needed some time alone. I've not been... honest about my mental state as of late."

"What do you mean?"

Leo spills his guts to Casey about how ever since he told him about the future, ever since he discovered that the Krang killed everyone in the alternate timeline, he's been tormented by thoughts of how worthless he was, how much better for everyone it would be if he just... stopped existing. Leo can hardly even say the actual word, he can barely admit that he's been struggling with thoughts about his own life and whether or not he actually deserves to live. About whether or not he wants to.

Casey is silent the entire time. But things start to make sense.

So that's why he didn't want the others to know about the future... That's why he hated it everytime Casey brought it up.

Leo starts rambling, the words spilling out like vomit. At one point he mentions that he feels like he might actually throw up. Casey sits him down and helps to calm him. He still feels pretty queasy, but he continues to ramble. Part of Leo wishes he would just puke already. Maybe then he'd stop talking about this. Leo wants to stop talking, for once in his life -- but he can't seem to find the off switch in his brain and he just continues to sob and over-explain himself.

And Casey listens carefully. He sits it out and listens to every stammer and stutter and deep dark reveal that Leo has to offer.

Leo finally calms down, panting and heaving from the overly-exerting talk and the sick feeling in his stomach. But he feels lighter. It's good to get it all out and off his chest. He hates that he had to show this part of him; he feels like he revealed a horrible secret or a deadly weakness within him. But he's glad that he did, all the same.

He waits for Casey to respond. He sits beside him, quiet and patting his shell.

"...Feel better?" he whispers.

Leo nods.

"Yeah, actually. Thanks for sitting through all that," Leo chuckles half-heartedly.

CJ smiles at him, wrapping an arm around the turtle in a side-hug.

"That's what family does, dude."

"Some family I've been," Leo mumbles. "I treated you awful."

"You were scared and hurting," Casey states. "It's no excuse, but under the circumstances I can understand why you reacted the way you did. We'll call it even."

Leo huffs a soft breath that Casey interprets as a chuckle.

"So, uh... what now?" Leo asks. "I mean, I do not want to talk anymore, if I'm honest. I'm exhausted."

"Makes sense," CJ remarks. "I guess it's my turn to talk, anyway."

He clears his throat, and Leo prepares himself for another scolding about why he should have let him talk about his family, or another heartbreaking recount of the events of the bad timeline, or something terrible that he deserves because he deserves to hurt, deserves to suffer, he's a good for nothing wretched little pest.

"I'm sorry for what I said."

Leo's mouth softly falls open. He, uh... he wasn't expecting that.

"I shouldn't have said those things. I was angry and I wanted to get my point across, so I intentionally hurt you. The same way I did when we were in the tunnel and I told you about how it all ended. And that wasn't cool of me. I was being a jerk, and you didn't deserve that."

"...Well, I was being a jerk too," Leo articulates. "I needed the reality check."

"Yeah, but I could have been better about it. I was spiteful, and angry, and what I said was brutal. And you held on to that, and you shouldn't have. It wasn't your fault, dude. None of it. None of the attack, invasion, the krang -- none of that was because of you."

"...I wish I could believe you on that," Leo mutters. "But it was my fault. I was stupid and self-absorbed and I let them get away with the key. It was my screw-up that almost doomed humanity."

Casey looks back at Leo, who is slowly slinking into his shell again.

"...Y'know, there was this one mission that me and my Sensei went on," Casey says quietly. "We were supposed to help these refugees back to our hideout. But I got cocky and reckless... I almost screwed it all up. I thought I could get everyone out safely in one night, and I unintentionally alerted the Krang to our location. I could have gotten everyone killed, including Sensei. You. And I went through a lot of negative stuff afterwards. But then... Sensei told me something important."

"...What did he say?" Leo asks with hesitance.

"He said that I wasn't a bad person. He said I was just fifteen. Well, at the time I was. I didn't get it back then, but now I do. I was just a stupid kid who was trying to be bigger than I actually was. And I'm still a stupid kid. The point is, you're still growing up and learning how to be yourself and you'll make dumb mistakes. That's what makes us teenagers. So you should learn from the mistake, but let it go. Cuz' at the end of the day... it was just a mistake."

Leo stares at him before looking out over the water as the sun slowly starts to set.

He smiles.

"...Huh."

He slowly stands up and wipes the sand off before offering a hand to Casey.

"Come on. Raph'll be wondering where we are."

CJ takes his hand, and the two walk back to the hotel to explain to the others about Leo's dilemma and healing.

"Oh, and Casey?"

"Yeah?" CJ answers, pausing to make sure that Leo is okay.

Leo smiles. A genuine, bright smile. He's okay.

"Thanks for telling me that story."

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withthewindinherfootsteps · 14 days

Text

Nie Huaisang and the Morality of Revenge

(Greatly expanded AO3 version here – I would definitely recommend that one more, but it's a little long for a tumblr meta)

"Take revenge on the ones who bite you. Wen Ning’s branch doesn’t have much blood on their hands."

There's a clear pattern as to how revenge is presented in MDZS. Though revenge against the ones who wronged you (or those close to you) isn't something you're morally obliged to do, it isn't condemned, and tends to be presented in the right. Revenge against innocents, however – that's where you draw the line.

All of which leaves Nie Huaisang in a very interesting position. Because though his target is the person directly responsible for his brother's death... those he's willing to harm to achieve that goal are not.

Vengeance in MDZS

MXTX: If you were to ask Wifi as to why he did not reveal [Nie Huaisang's] mask, it’s because there wasn’t enough evidence, there wasn’t a way to catch his tail (...) there was no way to punish him, because his reasons were righteous. - MXTX interview, translation here – 'Wifi' refers to Wei Wuxian

Now, it's one thing to say revenge is presented as right, and it's another thing to prove it. Why do I think this, and what material is there to support this in the actual text?

One major piece of evidence is Wei Wuxian himself.

If he were Chang Ping, he wouldn’t have cared how prominent or powerful the LanlingJin Sect was, or how much glory the road ahead offered him, and he wouldn’t have let the matter [of his clan being murdered] go. Instead, he would’ve went to the dungeons on his own, cut Xue Yang up so that he was nothing more than a puddle of flesh on the ground, and summoned his soul back to repeat the process to the point that he regretted ever being born in this world. - Chapter 33, EXR translation

This is something that Wei Wuxian thinks in the present day – not under pressure, not in the aftermath of anything traumatic. And the important thing is that it's never questioned. There isn't a moment where Wei Wuxian or anybody else dwells on this and thinks/says 'maybe I shouldn't keep retaliating like this' or 'will harming more people after their actions have already been taken actually fix anything, or just cause more damage?'. It's also never framed as a tragedy that these views don't change. There is a moment of thinking his past self went too far with his vengeance, but look at the context:

And for every one of the Wen Sect’s cultivators whom he killed, he made them into puppets as well before controlling them to kill the friends and family they had before they died. (...) Not only others, even when he, himself, thought about it afterward, he felt that he had done a bit too much. - Chapter 60, EXR translation

Killing their friends and family – yes, this is a war between clans (people with blood ties to each other)/sects (in which you spend most of your time around fellow members), so it's likely many of these are on the battlefield... but do we know this is the case for everyone? We know there are people and branches of the Wen sect who are noncombatants, and we know outer disciples exist, whose families may or may not be affiliated with the sect in some way. We also know resentful corpses can seek out, recognise and target people due to their bloodline without direct control (see Nie Mingjue finding Jin Guangyao and then targeting Jin Ling in Hatred and Concealment), so seeking out family members outside of the battlefield is possible. Out of the potentially thousands of people Wei Wuxian killed in this way, is it really that probable that every single one was guilty?

This is what I believe 'done a bit too much' means – targetting people who may or may not have been directly involved in action against Wei Wuxian/the allied sects.

There are also other instances of vengeance, directly against the ones who harmed you, being framed as justified (resurrecting Wen Ning to kill the inspectors that killed him, for example); as well as instances that aren't exactly vengeance but are still linked to punishing somebody for their bad deeds (seen a lot with Xue Yang – eg Xiao Xingchen demanding "severe punishment" for what Xue Yang did to the Chang clan in Chapter 30*, Wei Wuxian's "Xue Yang must die" after witnessing the Yi City flashbacks in Chapter 41), also framed this way.

But, first, a clarification.

MDZS may not condemn vengeance, but it does condemn holding onto resentment and letting it twist you, particularly when it leads to the harming of other people. And this is something important to note about Wei Wuxian's character, as well – he is quick to vengeance and retaliation, but that's exactly the point. He does the deed and then doesn't hold onto those feelings (under normal circumstances), instead carrying on to live his life with his adherence to his moral code unaltered**. See the Second Siege – a lot of these people directly contributed to the first siege on him, but he doesn't hold onto his resentment and decide not to save them as a result. Instead, he and Lan Wangji work to save them as well as the Juniors at great personal risk to themselves. That's why most of his actions are justified by the narrative, and why the two times he does act based on feelings of resentment he holds (Sunshot Campaign in the above quote, and Nightless City***), his actions aren't.

Back to vengeance itself.

Of course, vengeance is not presented as the only course of action! Lan Wangji doesn't do anything to avenge Wei Wuxian's death, instead focusing his energy on helping people and on teaching the younger generation to avoid the mistakes his made, and he's all the better for it. The line immediately following Wei Wuxian's thoughts on Chang Ping and Xue Yang is this:

But, not everyone was like him[.]

Which is followed by understanding for Chang Ping's situation, especially taking into account the fact that "some of the Chang clan's people were still alive" and may have been casualities if vengeance was carried out. Revenge isn't something you're obliged to do – and when the alternative is protecting others, is arguably less important. But, in itself, it isn't a moral wrong. As someone I talked to about writing this meta said, it's often the only way to bring someone who has done bad deeds to justice (which the story supports: see my earlier points about Xue Yang, as well as MXTX saying Xue Yang "deserved to be beaten by the protagonist") in a society which often leaves bad deeds unpunished and good deeds condemned.

(Of course you're allowed to disagree with this view of vengeance and punishment – I do myself – but that's what I believe to be the story's view on the matter.)

When it does become a moral wrong is when it targets innocent people.

Going Too Far?

As we've discussed, there two scenarios where revenge is presented as in wrong: the above, and being corrupted by the resentment you hold due to continously seeking your vengeance. And more often than not, these scenarios are strongly tied to each other. The sects targeting the Wen remnants after the Sunshot Campaign is an example of the former, as is Xue Yang's murder of the Chang clan; Nie Mingjue's single-minded hatred of Jin Guangyao is a clear example of the latter. Even if Jin Guangyao did do the actions Nie Mingjue had hated him for (and he did!), the resentment Nie Mingjue carried due to this eventually led to his death (through its amplification by the Collection of Turmoil). We also have a reversal of scenario two with Jin Ling's arc of learning to let go of his hatred, which deserves its own post.

But even in the above, there are traces of the other problem. Were the sects not blinded by their resentment and prejudice against anyone with a Wen name? Did Xue Yang's experience with Chang Ci'an and the injustice/resentment he felt from that not negatively impact him? And did Nie Mingjue's anger at Jin Guangyao (even if it was supernaturally amplified) not lead him to lash out at Nie Huaisang, an innocent in this scenario? And other scenarios are even more intertwined with both, for example Jiang Cheng pursuing ghost/demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death (scenario 1) due to his hatred and resentment (scenario 2).

This relationship is very interesting, since it leads to the idea that holding onto resentment does make you more likely to target innocent people – ie, it often leads to loss of critical thinking, something else that's strongly condemned in the novel (as the force behind mob mentality, etc). It's also eerily similar to people's ideas of what practicing guidao, aka cultivation using resentful energy, does to you ("damag[ing] your heart" – LWJ, Chapter 62)... as well as to the loss of discernment that occurs both times Wei Wuxian loses control of his cultivation (Wen Ning accidentally targeting Jin Zixuan, the corpses accidentally targeting Jiang Yanli)****!

As for why this sort of vengeance is presented as wrong, I think it's pretty obvious – it harms innocent people as well as yourself. There isn't really any good in that.

Nie Huaisang In Context

So, with all that said... let's finally look at Nie Huaisang.

As MXTX has said, she believes his reasons were justified. His aim wasn't to take revenge on innocents, which avoids scenario one (in motives, at least). Whether or not Nie Huaisang was 'corrupted' due to resentment he felt is a little harder to judge***** – we don't really know his inner workings before Nie Mingjue is killed, so we don't know his moral code or what he's willing to do before then. We're also not there for the vast majority of his planning, so we don't know how he changed during that period, and by the time we're in the story proper, his mask is too good to really discern anything about his attitude... and we don't see much of him afterwards, either, the only thing being him starting to his more competent side when organising the coffin sealing ceremony. So we'll leave scenario two as an unknown, and not comment – however, it should be noted that vengeance doesn't seem to affect Nie Huaisang's critical thinking.

But what's unique about his vengeance isn't motives, direct targets, or the effect it has on him. It's something we haven't really seen before – the effect on those who weren't his targets, but were still heavily harmed. In other words, collaterals.

The most obvious example is probably Mo Xuanyu:

Perhaps to gain information from Mo XuanYu, Nie HuaiSang talked to him once. From Mo XuanYu’s grievances, he knew that Mo XuanYu had once read the fragmented manuscript that recorded an ancient, forbidden technique in Jin GuangYao’s collection. He then urged Mo XuanYu, who had had enough of the humiliation coming from his own clan members, to seek revenge using the forbidden technique of body sacrifice. - Chapter 109, EXR translation

Was Mo Xuanyu a direct target, someone who Nie Huaisang knew was innocent yet decided to take vengeance on anyway? No. But was he provided an avenue to and motive for suicide by Nie Huaisang, as part of his plan to take revenge on someone else? Yes! And Mo Xuanyu isn't the only death Nie Huaisang had a hand in causing – perhaps his is even the least direct. After all, he was responsible for releasing the hand at Mo Manor as well, leading to the deaths of four people (the Mo family and A-Tong) and endangering many more (the junior disciples, the rest of the household's servants). Yes, this wasn't his aim – he wanted Wei Wuxian to subdue it and start investigating the case – but he knowingly endangered everyone while doing so, and in the end the hand was subdued as quickly as it was by Lan Wangji's involvement, who he couldn't have known was there!

There's also the case of luring the Juniors to Yi City, purely to place more blame on Jin Guangyao if they'd died there! That isn't even necessary to taking down Jin Guangyao and figuring out the case of the corpse, as resurrecting Wei Wuxian and releasing the hand arguably were (Nie Huaisang could've tried to expose Jin Guangyao earlier, but we don't know which way public opinion would've swayed – that isn't necessarily a point in his favour, just a remark)! Then he threatened Jin Guangyao with the letter, leading to the events of the Second Siege which endangered and nearly killed "thousands" (Chapter 68) of people, as well as to the events at the Guanyin temple which nearly killed Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian and endangered more... and there are the smaller things too, like killing those cats, potentially dismembering the innocent Meng Shi's corpse, and possibly knowing about Sisi for a while before freeing her (she said she was freed "recently" in Chapter 85 – but to be fair, we don't know how recently he found out, or how long ago exactly she was freed. She wasn't necessarily freed right before she gave the testimony). We can't forget about potentially endangering many people who lived in Qinghe due to causing the Nie sect to greatly decline, and making himself seem like somebody useless, meaning people likely wouldn't go to him for help if they needed it.

In conclusion: a lot of people were killed, harmed or endangered in his plan. So, with a potential body count that would've (...nearly. maybe. not quite.) rivalled Wei Wuxian's had things gone wrong... where does that leave him in the eyes of the narrative? Do the ends justify the means?

...It's interesting.

Slowly, Nie HuaiSang brushed together his storm-drenched hair, “I think that if this person hates Jin GuangYao so much, they’d probably be entirely merciless towards something he cherishes more than his life.” (...) Perhaps (...) he didn’t want to admit that he used others as pawns, treating human lives as nothing. - Chapter 110, EXR translation

Nie Huaisang's actions are certainly framed as some of wrong. This is consistent with the closest example we have to his actions also being framed as in the wrong (Nie Mingjue harming others by lashing out while hating Jin Guangyao, albeit on a much smaller scale, with durations, intentions, presences of plans, the effect holding onto resentment had on them also being very different; possibly Jin Guangyao himself in his plan to kill Jin Guangshan, although that's obviously not the only condemnable action Jin Guangyao takes, and he very much does intentionally harm others even if it wouldn't really contribute to his aims (burning down the brothel, giving the Tingshan He sect to Xue Yang to experiment on, killing the prostitues when he could've bribed them and forcing them to keep on going even once Jin Guangshan was dead, among many other things)... there really aren't many similar situations to Nie Huaisang's in the novel), even though they're framed this way for different reasons (being blinded by resentment vs knowingly endangering others as part of a wider plan).

Yet, on the other hand, it isn't considered a tragedy that his actions went unpunished – and with reference to MXTX's quote about Nie Huaisang, this isn't accidental (with a slight caveat we're about to talk about).

In the end, it comes down to another, very related, theme.

Conjectures were conjectures, after all. Nobody had evidence. - Chapter 110, EXR translation

MXTX: If you were to ask Wifi as to why he did not reveal [Nie Huaisang's] mask, it’s because there wasn’t enough evidence, there wasn’t a way to catch his tail. - MXTX requote, start of this meta

Think critically. Don't target somebody without evidence. Don't target someone who may not have done something wrong.

Don't target innocent people in pursuit of vengeance, or justice.

That's the main reason Nie Huaisang wasn't exposed. Would Wei Wuxian have exposed him had he had the evidence needed? Maybe – we can't really say. He did endanger a lot of people. But targeting him without evidence, letting suspicions drive actions, would make Wei Wuxian – and indeed, anyone who did so – no better than the mob that does the same thing throughout the novel.

They're also doing it in pursuit of what they think is justice, or vengeance, or an intertwined mixture of the two, after all.

---

*Which is quite similar to Wei Wuxian's own thoughts when first told about it (in the quote). This further supports the assumption that this line of thinking is presented as justified, due to Xiao Xingchen himself being written as an ideal of goodness:

When writing paragraphs about Xue Yang, I had to adjust my mentality to be in the darkest, cruellest state, while it was the exact opposite for Xiao XingChen, from whom I felt holy light every time I wrote about him. - MXTX's postscripts (Chapter 113.5), EXR translation

**"Forgetting the pain as soon as the wound has healed" is a phrase that's used to describe him in the novel, and while it's generally used to describe somebody not learning a lesson after a punishment, it describes this aspect of him perfectly.

***Relevant quote:

Wei WuXian had already lost his judgement. He was already half-mad, half-unconscious. All evil was being augmented by him. He felt that everyone loathed him and he loathed everyone as well.

Holding onto those feelings of loathing and resentment is directly tied to losing judgement and presence of mind – which demonstrates this theme better than any analysis can, I think.

****For more analysis on the themes of resentment and how resentful energy ties into that, this amazing meta by @rynne delves into it more deeply than I do here – I really recommend a read!

*****MXTX does say this earlier on in the same interview:

As to whether it was purely to take revenge, maybe he only had one motive. But afterwards, he wasn’t thinking purely on revenge.

Which does suggest that other more noble factors, such as prevention, may have played a role in his plan too. This seems to indicate Nie Huaisang wasn't completely overtaken by resentment, working to his favour in avoiding scenario 2. However, for the the purposes of this analysis, this isn't too important (and not just because there's nothing to prove or disprove it in the text) – such aims could be achieved by simply exposing Jin Guangyao without utternly destroying him, which is where the motivation of revenge and its effects comes in. It's this aspect of the plan that leads to Nie Huaisang endangering innocent people, which is what this meta dwells upon.

#free to discuss and disagree with what i said btw! expansions and debates are a necessary and very enjoyable part of writing metas #tw suicide mention #cw suicide mention #mdzs meta #my meta #nie huaisang #theme: revenge #theme: resentment #mo dao zu shi #魔道祖师 #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #gdc #...i may put this one on ao3 too actually it's pretty long (not as long as my other one – 3k words vs 7k – but still substantial)#long meta #(also i do still love nie huaisang i'm making that clear)#(his position in this is SO INTERESTING!!)

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