#understanding mythologies

[mask131]

Hello ^^

So just asking, how would you recommend people research about Greek Mythology? Do you recommend they read from the source material or do you suggest any other sources?

Both.

On one side, it is definitively needed to read the source material. How else are you going to understand Greek mythology if you have never read the Odyssey or the Iliad or the Theogony? Mind you, what I usually advise is for people to get good annotated editions, so that they can fully understand the translation nuance, the cultural context and the strange allusions within the various texts and epics. Yes it is nice to just read the text for what it is... But given each text that formed Greek mythology has hundreds of various translations, and each one sparking new debates, it is always very useful to have more "professional" editions, and it is always good to compare various translations.

After that, just reading the basic texts like the Argonautica, Homer's works, Hesiod's works and other epics will leave you a bit lacking, because a good chunk of what we know as "Greek mythology" does not come from these texts, but from archeological research, various scholia and other non-fictional records. As such, it is always needed to go read professional texts about Greek mythology. Essays about the religion and the cultures of Ancient Greece ; encyclopedias and dictionaries of Greek gods and Greek myths ; university-articles about very specific subjects ; art books about the Ancient Greek statues and paintings, books about the mystery cults or about the old Greek symbolism. All of this is needed to fully understand what Greek mythology was about.

So, to answer your question: both. And that is true for all mythologies. It is impossible to get a mythology without reading the texts that preserved the myths (it is like trying to make a paper on a novel you haven't read - it is possible, thanks to second-hand record and Wikipedia recaps, but misinformation or missing elements are sure to pop up) ; but given old mythologies are separate from us by thousands of years of cultural change and historical evolution, it is also needed to read what people who spent their entire life and career studying Ancient Greece have to say. It is through them we actually know what Greek mythology is - it is through them that we can have little children novel rewriting Greek legends, or teenage romances taking inspiration from Greek heroes.

So there is no just one or just the other. Both are needed, else one is going to have an "incomplete" view of Greek mythology.

(Same thing applies to Norse mythology, by the way, especially since the Eddas and other source texts similar to them are from a very particular context and relie heavily on enigmas, riddles, poetic metaphors and inside-jokes, thus a critical literature is needed to fully understand them)

[deathlessathanasia]

People will be like I love Greek mythology but I hate everything that involves incest, infidelity, violence, slavery, misogyny, undeserved suffering, questionable relationships, ethically dubious heroes and gods,and morality that is foreign to me.

[justvea18]

I love how I made Telemachus the perfect mix of the two

Bonus art of Grandma Athena and Boy-failure Telemachus:

[gotstabbedbyapen]

It's always "Hades isn't bad or cruel, his deeds are just metaphors of the inevitable death" or "Hades kidnapping Persephone represent the premature death".

But when the argument "Zeus has numerous affairs and many children because he represent the fertile rain" is brought up, all nuance is suddenly out of the window and Zeus is just a womanizer who can't keep it in his pants.

[a-bisexual-panicking]

zeus is a psychopath. orpheus is a singer. eurydice dies in the first episode. no one listens to cassandra. caeneus is trans. everyone is gay. this show is perfection.

[doesephs]

odysseus has the raw energy of an elderly coworker trynna converse with the summer staff

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

Homer!Odysseus and Epic!Odysseus would try to kill each other if they ever met

[generouskittentidalwave]

Life advice

Percy: Man, I wish the gods noticed us for once-

Odysseus: *Grabs Percy by the shoulders* No you don't.

Percy: Wha-

Odysseus: No, you don't. Go live your life, run free, stay in school, start a family whatever you do just don't be a favorite of the Gods. Stay neglected by them, trust me.

Percy: Wait- you're Odysseus, that's so cool! Wait aren't you a favorite of the gods-?

Odysseus: Yes and believe me when I say it's not as glorifying as you think it is-

Zeus: OOOOH ODYSSEUS~!! WHO WANTS SOME GOOD CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT US GENEROUS GODS WANNA OH SO DEARLY GIVE TO YOU~!?

Odysseus: FUCK THEY FOUND ME-! RUN! SAVE YOURSELF-!

[thesteamhunk]

“Oh we need more male S/A victim rep!” You guys can’t even handle Odysseus without insisting that him being trapped in a cave until he agreed to sleep with a woman or being put under a spell and coerced while under the spell was still him consenting fully shut the fuck up.

[demigods-posts]

imagine a world where the heroes of olympus series was one big crossover. a world where we meet an eleven year old boy named jason, no last name because it reminds him of his mother — a drunk who literally threw him to the wolves as a toddler. jason, who's earliest memory is chewing on a stapler and his older sister tending to the wound on his bottom lip — but he hasn't seen or heard from her since they were separated years ago. jason, who grew up reaching for the sky like a purpose, desperate for a chance to prove himself. jason, who fought to save the world at fifteen years old. and jason, who finds himself in the grand canyon four months later with no memory of who he is or where he came from, feet away from some frantic sixteen year old girl in search of some dude named percy jackson. imagine what this could have been.

[samthechaotic]

I leave the batfandom for A WEEK then come back and find out that not only jason todd is dead AGAIN but *checks notes* he died an EMBARRASSING death??? and *checks notes* HE'S ALIVE???

[maharellasa]

just read on twitter that lavellan telling solas "ma ghilana, vhenan" (guide me, my heart) is wild considering the Dalish saying "Fen'harel ma ghilana" which is a warning that means Dread Wolf guides you / You're being mislead and I'm not okay 😭😭😭

[lunameimei]

Helios looks at how Zeus, instead of teaching humans a lesson, started singing a song and put a SЕX even there

[gingermintpepper]

In my Zeus bag today so I'm just gonna put it out there that exactly none of the great Ancient Greek warrior-heroes stayed loyal and faithful and completely monogamous and yet none of them have their greatness questioned nor do we question why they had the cultural prominence that they did and still do.

Jason, the brilliant leader of the Argo, got cold feet when it came to Medea - already put off by some of her magic and then exiled from his birthland because of her political ploys, he took Creusa to bed and fully intended on marrying her despite not properly dissolving things with Medea.

Theseus was a fierce warrior and an incredibly talented king but he had a horrible temper and was almost fatally weak to women. This is the man who got imprisoned in the Underworld for trying to get a friend laid, the man who started the whole Attic War because he couldn't keep his legs closed.

And we cannot at all forget Heracles for whom a not inconsiderable amount of his joy in life was loving people then losing the people around him that he loved. Wives, children, serving boys, mentors, Heracles had a list of lovers - male and female - long enough to rival some gods and even after completing his labours and coming down to the end of his life, he did not have one wife but three.

And y'know what, just because he's a cultural darling, I'll put Achilles up here too because that man was a Theseus type where he was fantastic at the thing he was born to do (that is, fight whereas Theseus' was to rule) but that was not enough to eclipse his horrid temper and his weakness to young pretty things. This is the man that killed two of Apollo's sons because they wouldn't let him hit - Tenes because he refused to let Achilles have his sister and Troilus who refused Achilles so vehemently that he ran into Apollo's temple to avoid him and still couldn't escape.

All four of these men are still celebrated as great heroes and men. All four of these men are given the dignity of nuance, of having their flaws treated as just that, flaws which enrich their character and can be used to discuss the wider cultural point of what truly makes a hero heroic. All four of these men still have their legacies respected.

Why can that same mindset not be applied to Zeus? Zeus, who was a warrior-king raised in seclusion apart from his family. Zeus who must have learned to embrace the violence of thunder for every time he cried as a babe, the Corybantes would bang their shields to hide the sound. Zeus learned to be great because being good would not see the universe's affairs in its order.

The wonderful thing about sympathy is that we never run out of it. There's no rule stopping us from being sympathetic to multiple plights at once, there's no law that necessitate things always exist on the good-evil binary. Yes, Zeus sentenced Prometheus to sufferation in Tartarus for what (to us) seems like a cruel reason. Prometheus only wanted to help humans! But when you think about Prometheus' actions from a king's perspective, the narrative is completely different: Prometheus stole divine knowledge and gifted it to humans after Zeus explicitly told him not to. And this was after Prometheus cheated all the gods out of a huge portion of wealth by having humans keep the best part of a sacrifice's meat while the gods must delight themselves with bones, fat and skin. Yes, Zeus gave Persephone away to Hades without consulting Demeter but what king consults a woman who is not his wife about the arrangement of his daughter's marriage to another king? Yes, Zeus breaks the marriage vows he set with Hera despite his love of her but what is the Master of Fate if not its staunchest slave?

The nuance is there. Even in his most bizarre actions, the nuance and logic and reason is there. The Ancient Greeks weren't a daft people, they worshipped Zeus as their primary god for a reason and they did not associate him with half the vices modern audiences take issue with. Zeus was a father, a visitor, a protector, a fair judge of character, a guide for the lost, the arbiter of revenge for those that had been wronged, a pillar of strength for those who needed it and a shield to protect those who made their home among the biting snakes. His children were reflections of him, extensions of his will who acted both as his mercy and as his retribution, his brothers and sisters deferred to him because he was wise as well as powerful. Zeus didn't become king by accident and it is a damn shame he does not get more respect.

[midwinterwings]

RULES OF BEING OTHERKIN #1

Being authentic and true to yourself is the only way you are 'supposed to be/act like' (insert entity). If anyone else disagrees it only tells you about them.

[theoihalioistuff]

The ways Zeus is characterised in ancient sources is ~ fascinating ~ to me.

The overbearing patriarch of the Iliad who keeps his godly family in check with constant threats of abuse and domestic violence. The conciliatory diplomat of the Odyssey, acquiescent to the desires and honours of his fellow deities. The ideal king of the Theogony, commonly elected, virtuous alloter of good and evil. The frightened tyrant, the cruel tormentor of Prometheus Bound. The all-encompassing orphic entity, who swallowed down and brought forth and is the entirety of the cosmos. The enigmatic, ambivalent, and sometimes undignified figure who refuses to appear on stage. The embodiment of righteousness, of majesty, the ultimate good, the promoter and dispenser of justice, the adulterer, the rapist, the upholder of oaths who perjures himself in the name of "love".

Above all the mastermind, the constant plotter, whose plan and will [Διὸς βουλή] permeate greek literature from epic to philosophy, whether it be synonymous with fate or not.

This is why I generally dislike simplistic takes on him. Sure, almost any way you choose to characterise him will probably have a sourced basis, his multifaceted "identity" almost guarantees it. But the massive loss of complexity is so disappointing imo.