#we got everything but Jonsa right

[branwendaughterofllyr]

What's the deal with these BNFs like JoLa and such lmao? Sorry I wasn't chronically online during GOT so I had no idea this was a thing until recently LOL.

Oh man, nonny, you are really taking me back. BNFs or “Big Name Fans” are one of the worst aspects of ASOIAF/GOT fandom in my humble opinion. I think the fact that there has been such large gaps in between books, a lot of fans are really desperate for content and thus BNFs are created to fill that need for new ASOIAF content, their word only being surpassed by George. Most BNFs have one or two good takes/theories that got them big and then are uniformally idiots in everything else they say, but the fandom takes them as gospel because they’ve been around so long or were right about one really important thing. A lot of the biggest of the BNFs originated on the westeros.org forums and actually interacted occasionally with George back when he still did stuff like that, and now are considered authorities on the series. The most successful BNFs are probably Elio and Linda who now actually work with George and co-wrote AWOIAF with him (and they’ve had their own very stupid drama that I cannot be bothered to remember. @starkmaiden probably remembers it though. She’s my go to fandom drama lorist)

A lot of the worst but most widely accepted theories can be traced back to a BNF, and since the books have been so slow in coming, these theories ended up just becoming part of the fabric of the fandom. It also doesn’t help that most BNFs are absolute divas that hate it when they end up being wrong or having pushback. I remember rolling my eyes at BryndenBFish who had particularly influential (but often very dumb) theories who I believe left the fandom in a huff and deleted all his stuff. The worst BNF fans in my opinions are the ones who made super long videos or podcasts about the most inane details (I’m taking specifically about Lucifermeanslightbringer here since I ended up listing to like ten hours of the Bloodstone Compendium trying desperately to understand why he was so popular)

On tumblr during GoT, most of the BNFs here were part of the asoiafuniversity account, (including the lovely JoLa) which branded itself as neutral but was decidedly not lol, and had particular drama with people who asserted the Dark Dany theory, which ended up being true, lol. I think they even straight up banned contributions that supported “Mad Dany” at one point. Most BNFs tend to be pro-jonerys, pro-Tyrion, pro-Dany, intensely into Targaryen history (and weirdly a lot of them were really into Stannis before he bit it. The Stannis the Mannis faction was crazy but also kinda fun lol) I’ve always been pro-Bran, pro-Catelyn, and pro-Sansa, so I never really got too into the BNFs, but I did accept that Tyrion, Jon, and Dany were the three heads of the dragons before I read ADWD because everyone else seemed to think that was the case.

And that to me is the biggest problem with BNFs, that a lot of them still espose theories and takes that they came up with before AFFC/ADWD were published and they refuse to budge even though there’s clearly been a shift. (This was before the show ended, which changed a lot of the fandom landscape)

(I also think that a lot of them couldn’t analyze their way out of a paper bag, but that seems to just be me lol. The POV trap is very real for most of these people.)

I’ve also noticed that a lot of BNFs are also Wheel of Time fans, and sometimes use that series to theorize about the end of ASOIAF, which is uh, a strategy I guess. (I know George likes it and all but I think the series have very different vibes, and George has listed series he was drawing on and I don’t think WoT was on that list. Somebody somewhere compiled it, and I think LoTR and The Dragonbone Chair were on it.)

The greatest hits of the BNFs in my opinion are that Tyrion, Jon and Dany are the three heads of the dragon and are going to save the world, which was widely accepted as the ending to the series, by pretty much everyone who was anyone. Season 8 killed that stone dead though, big lol from me. Some people still believe it though for some reason. Some three heads of the dragon propenents also believed it in conjunction with the “Tyrion is secretly a Targaryen” theory which has like one piece of actual evidence, that Aerys had a thing for Joanna, and the weight of Tyrion is Tywin’s son thematic narrative against it.

My favorite offshoot of the three heads of the dragon theory is the curtain of light one, which is simply *chef’s kiss* Basically the curtain of light that Bran sees at the edge of the world is entirely literally and in no way a metaphor, and Bran will have nothing to do with it. Instead, Jon and Dany are going to fuck in the curtain of light to save the world while Tyrion awkwardly watches, and the baby they conceive will be the messiah. AMAZING stuff right there. And because this brilliant take was thought up by a BNF, it actually gained a fair amount of traction.

Other highlights include screeching about the “Main Five” in which they only grudgingly include Bran in order to exclude Sansa from having any relevance to the big endgame, that Catelyn is an absolute bitch responsible for all evils in the world, that Tywin is the biggest mastermind in Westeros, that f!Aegon is definitely fake with no room to debate, Val will be plot relevant to Jon somehow (as his future Queen for those who aren’t super into Jon and Dany endgame), Stannis will take WF, Jaime is going to be redeemed, and Azhor Ahai is some eleborate metaphor for the nature of the universe.

Say what you will, but BNFs really did fill some of the content void while we all wait for TWOW but a lot of them were absolutely batshit and their insane takes were taken extremely seriously by most of the fandom. Some of them even did rounds at conventions I believe. There are some BNFs still around and kicking but a lot of them left permanently after the show ended, which fair enough. The meltdowns during s8 were spectacular and many. Almost makes up for how shitty the show’s writing was lol.

My pet BNF was JoLa, and I even had some civil interactions with her about non Jonsa metas, related to her one good contribution to the fandom, the Dead Ladies Club. She had some of the wildest takes about Dany despite her constantly claiming she wasn’t that invested in non-Lannister theories and ships.

The BNFs were a fascinating phenomenon that you really had to experience in real time to get the full breadth of insanity. The most crazy takes being taken as basically canon really made me feel like I was losing it, or straight up reading different books.

[esther-dot]

Lately I've been toying with the idea that Jon will indeed become king of the FF. It's the only reasonable ending for him, the only one that matches both Jon's show ending and Sansa's book foreshadowing (to marry a king, not a prince, not a king who had been). I think the show ending on such ambiguous (and bitter!) terms for Jon was decided because of the sequel. In other words, I'm considering the possibility that M. will transfer his 5year gap at the end, and we'll see them again at the end after some time will have lapsed and they'll be older and firmly in their positions. But, with this ending I'm afraid we'll only get hints of Jon and Sansa's romance on page, and nothing too explicit (although I guess that it might have a role in Daeny's death).

I think that, throughout the book, the famous "the FF don't kneel" is only meant to be subverted: they will kneel to Jon, after everything he has done for them, and he will probably settle them in the Gift(s). In my opinion, this ending is truly poetic. If ASoIaF is a fairytale, then the hidden prince does not become king because of his inheritance (which he has already foresaken just as he will reject the Targaryen inheritance: so vividly given as "I don't want it!" in the show, lol), but has forged a kingdom for himself, because he is truly worth it. I am not sure that he will go to the Wall because he will be punished, but regardless, he will become king of the FF. If it will be like this, then Jon's ending is the apotheosis of subversions.

And only as an equal will he be able to marry Sansa: when Sansa becomes queen, everybody will want her for her claim twice over, unless her husband is already king. I think this ending is foreshadowed in her ASOS, Sansa IV chapter: two castles in the sky, one black, one grey, become one in all the colors of spring. Note that this is something Sansa sees in the morning sky, meaning after dawn.

And with this explanation I've made peace with the disastrously ambiguous ending of GoT.

I wish you'll make your peace too, Esther!

(old anon btw, anxiously waiting for your posts for years, and now this darn thing made take a name. So be it).

It's so nice to finally "meet" you @justleaves!

I like that reading of book foreshadowing and the mess GoT gave us. You know I can't agree with most of the fandom that we can entirely or even mostly dismiss the show's ending. Too much of it gave me that, "it was always meant to be this way" feeling and since the ending of the show, Jonsas have turned up a lot of foreshadowing for Arya sailing away, King Bran, Dark Dany, Jaime and Cersei dying together...so many things were kinda-sorta right, just presented so horribly they felt wrong!

I've always felt very weird about Jon becoming King of the FF, most of us Jonsas reject that out of hand because it really rubs us the wrong way, but I had a series of anons critical of Martin's handling of aspects of Dany's POV some time ago, particularly how he characterized the Dothraki, and I did go back to read/re-watch some interviews, and I've accepted he doesn't share our sensibilities there, or on a handful of other issues. I hadn't even realized I was projecting when I dismissed the possibility of a kid from a different culture becoming the leader of an indigenous group. To me that is inherently negative. But of course, at the time when Martin began all this, it wasn't generally perceived that way, and we have Mance so...

Right after GoT ended some of us speculated that not including the Gift was why they had Jon ride off past the Wall with the FF, while in the books, he might be responsible for the Gift, so I really like how you've blended the two. I've written before about how it would make sense to me that Jon rejects the Stark/Northern claim and then rejects the Targaryen/Southern claim, and is rewarded in he end for those decisions, and I think it would be a more satisfying resolution to the bastard struggle if he is chosen as a leader because of who he is rather than who his "father" is (whether we mean Ned's son -> KitN or Rhaegar's son -> Targ heir). The way Jon is of the North, has such connections to the Starks (whether as Ned's bastard or Lyanna's boy post parentage reveal) as well as his time with the FF, the understanding he has and care he has for them which others do not, well, it certainly sets him up as a great bridge between the cultures. A person uniquely capable of creating a lasting peace.

I also really like your idea of the time-lapse because a) Sansa's age b) allowing all these revelations time to settle. I can't rationalize how the cast of characters would accept Jon as the legitimized son of Ned, only to turn around and accept that actually he's Lyanna's son, and how they'd be ok with a Jonsa marriage immediately thereafter. And that's not even dealing with how he'll be perceived/the rumors that will be swirling around him post rez and whatever his actions are immediately after. Love it in fics, but when I think about it in Martin's words, hard for me to imagine, so the idea that in a few years after Jon has established himself they'd be able to marry, that makes sense to me.

I think this ending is foreshadowed in her ASOS, Sansa IV chapter: two castles in the sky, one black, one grey, become one in all the colors of spring. Note that this is something Sansa sees in the morning sky, meaning after dawn.

That is a beautiful reading of the scene! I can easily see that being the idea! The other reading I've seen on this is that it's the Jon and Sansa competing claims being joined as the solution to the Northern succession crisis (that may be @agentrouka-blog's spec? I'm not successfully turning anything up atm). I had actually written into the margins in my copy "sounds like Winterfell" by the line about a castle in ruins, and later in ASOS, we have back to back Jon and Sansa chapters that talk about Winterfell and have a weird number of similarities (link). But, specifically, the ruins/rebuilding idea seems like it points to Jon and Sansa's stories converging and allowing them to restore Winterfell together:

The warmth took some of the ache from his muscles and made him think of Winterfell's muddy pools, steaming and bubbling in the godswood. Winterfell, he thought. Theon left it burned and broken, but I could restore it. Surely his father would have wanted that, and Robb as well. They would never have wanted the castle left in ruins. (Jon XII, ASOS) The snow fell and the castle rose. Two walls ankle-high, the inner taller than the outer. Towers and turrets, keeps and stairs, a round kitchen, a square armory, the stables along the inside of the west wall. It was only a castle when she began, but before very long Sansa knew it was Winterfell. She found twigs and fallen branches beneath the snow and broke off the ends to make the trees for the godswood. For the gravestones in the lichyard she used bits of bark. Soon her gloves and her boots were crusty white, her hands were tingling, and her feet were soaked and cold, but she did not care. The castle was all that mattered. Some things were hard to remember, but most came back to her easily, as if she had been there only yesterday. The Library Tower, with the steep stonework stair twisting about its exterior. The gatehouse, two huge bulwarks, the arched gate between them, crenellations all along the top . . . (Sansa VII, ASOS)

So as always, I see the pros, I see the cons, I can't make up my mind, but I'm ok with that. I have no problem talking about GoT/my frustrations when I get an ask, but after I wrote my post canon fic Free, I just...wasn't angry anymore. D&D's choices will always baffle me, I'm disappointed we don't have TWOW yet, but I enjoy the different spec, fics, gifs, and art we have in the Jonsa fandom, so as long as we're all having fun, I'm happy.

I'd love to read any other observations you have about ASOIAF and fairytales, I think posts about parallels with other lit are fascinating!

[cappymightwrite]

I don't think Jon gonna love Dany in books if jonsa is endgame. Even if he is conflicted about his feelings for his half sister, the torment isn't suddenly going away if he would meet Dany. It's because those feelings are going to be strong. Dany is basically foil to Sansa character and even starks in general. Considering he had met people who reminded Jon of dany but in negative light going to affect his viewpoint. He had to forget everything to love her.

This is a very old ask, apologies! I'm going to attempt to catch up with a few of them, now that I've got a free weekend 😅 Anyway...

I think more and more now, I agree. They are fundamentally too different for love to grow there, certainly from Jon's side because through the characters of Stannis and Melisandre, especially, we start to get a real sense of how D*ny and Jon's politics will likely rub each other the wrong way. Death by fire is truly horrifying and it's through Jon's eyes that we see that horror firsthand:

Jon watched unblinking. He dare not appear squeamish before his brothers [...] The horn crashed amongst the logs and leaves and kindling. Within three heartbeats the whole pit was aflame. Clutching the bars of his cage with bound hands, Mance sobbed and begged. When the fire reached him he did a little dance. His screams became one long, wordless shriek of fear and pain. Within his cage, he fluttered like a burning leaf, a moth caught in a candle flame. – ADWD, Jon III

The imagery of the burning of the glamoured Mance used above goes some way to mask its real horror by describing his writhing in excruciating pain as like "a little dance," his catching on fire as like "a burning leaf" or a "moth caught in a candle flame." These are far more palatable images, small, inconsequential things to make this horror smaller too, to make it easier to withstand and to watch, unblinking. It's a very human response, on Jon's part, because how else to you go on, having witnessed something so horrifying, if you don't attempt to minimise it in some way, if only for yourself?

And this is just one person. One burning. I think you're quite right, Jon would have to erase this experience from his mind in order to love a person so cavalier with fire. And actually, even if he hadn't witnessed this, I don't think it's in his character to fall in love with D*ny, especially because Jon has also had the experience of somewhat being part of a democratic system at the Watch. I say somewhat because obviously it's flawed, but you know, they attempt to vote fairly on things, decisions aren't always down to one person. With D*ny, there is no taking a vote, it is her judgement at the end of the day and if she thinks you deserve to burn, then honey, you're burning, without any need to busy about setting up a pyre too.

I'm a Jonsa truther, but even excluding that... I think some readers are a little too happy to discount the politics of individual characters and families in favour of what would be "cool" for their fave — I'm talking about D*ny and Arya, D*ny and Arianne, getting along like besties, or just generally the idea of a Targ restoration.

You know, Ned had a very defined set of personal politics, of principles, an adherene to an "older way", and in Jon, as well as the rest of the Starklings, we see a continuation of those principles.

"King Robert has a headsman," he said, uncertainly. "He does," his father admitted. "As did the Targaryen kings before him. Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die. "One day, Bran, you will be Robb's bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is." – AGOT, Bran I

Now, D*ny doesn't have a paid executioner, but like Targ kings before her, she is not the one swinging the sword either. It is her dragons who are her executioners with fire as their sword, and it makes you wonder... "a ruler who hides behind [dragons] soon forgets what death is." Contrast this with Ned and the Stark boys at the very beginning of AGOT, and then again, with Jon not only witnessing the burning of (the latter revealed to be glamoured) Mance, but also ordering archers to mercy kill him:

One arrow took Mance Rayder in the chest, one in the gut, one in the throat. The fourth struck one of the cage's wooden bars, and quivered for an instant before catching fire. A woman's sobs echoed off the Wall as the wildling king slid bonelessly to the floor of his cage, wreathed in fire. "And now his Watch is done," Jon murmured softly. Mance Rayder had been a man of the Night's Watch once, before he changed his black cloak for one slashed with bright red silk. Up on the platform, Stannis was scowling. Jon refused to meet his eyes. – ADWD, Jon III

And to bring this back round to Jonsa:

The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, "Edd, fetch me a block," and unsheathed Longclaw. – ADWD, Jon II

So... I'm sorry but, ya know, Targs and Starks, they're chalk and cheese really, and Jon is a true Stark, no matter his name or parentage. As the story progresses, D*ny is leaning more and more into the exceptionalist T*rg, fire and blood way, whereas Jon will always adhere to that "older way," a way that reveres ones duty to others, to what is fair and just, above all, and often the following of these principles comes at the cost of your own personal longings:

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. – ASOS, Jon XII Jon said, "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa." – ADWD, Jon IV

You're right, D*ny and the T*rgs are very much foils to the Starks and we know how much Jon loves the Starks through his execution of Janos Slynt (who took part in Ned's execution), his defence of Sansa's inheritance, he striving to save (who he believes to be) Arya etc., etc. D*ny could be the messiah with bells on and even then she wouldn't come out on top over Jon's loyalty to and love of the Starks. It's just in him, deep in the very marrow of him:

"[...] you must do what needs be done," Qhorin Halfhand said. "You are the blood of Winterfell and a man of the Night's Watch." – ACOK, Jon VI

Jon knows who he is in the sense that he knows what kind of man he is, what kind of man he hopes to be (one like Ned). A lot of people have fallen under D*ny's dragon goddess spell, both in the books and outside of them, but I don't think Jon is going to be one of them.

Thanks for the ask and apologies for taking so long to answer it!

[rise-my-angel]

Because I love salt, what do you find to be the most annoying lines of so-called evidence or foreshadowing for ships you hate? For me it’s hard to pick just one but Jon saying Sansa looked radiant is up there for me because the idea that Jon had a crush on Sansa in the first book or before is so much worse than the thought of them meeting again and then developing feelings (which I still hate, but it’s just not as bad). It’s super normal for people to think their siblings look nice. Arya’s POV chapters also remark that Sansa is beautiful. Ashford theory is annoying because it was originally about the hound and Sansa (also hate this ship but the fans are a million times more tolerable). I also roll my eyes when fans insist that the bride of fire line foreshadows Dany marrying Jon (and I even LIKE that ship but only in an AU in my head where Lyanna is Jon’s mom but Rhaegar is NOT the father)

"Because I love salt"

You have come to the right place as this is an accurate real life photo of me running this blog:

Thats a good one I hate though, multiple siblings and family members in this series all compliment one another. Even characters with bad relationships compliment each other. In the books, Arya recalls that her father calls her pretty, which only Jon ever also called her. Does that mean Ned had romantic feelings for Arya? Or Lyanna for that matter? No of course not. Thinking someone in terms of beauty is zero indicator of attraction in any way.

Also its even funnier with Jonsas because Sansa herself notes that Arya looks just like Jon, and then on multiple occasions notes that she thinks Arya is ugly. So, its even less compelling.

In the show Tyrion compliments Cersei's beauty all the time and we know there is nothing to it. It's reading into something that isn't there beacuse if they ignore the way beauty is used in this series as a common compliment towards other highborns, then its a really simple box to check on really stock symptoms of attraction. (I also dont really enjoy Sansan but it is funny how they just stay in their circle and mind their business like they somehow are winning based on being not fucking annoying alone).

I'm gonna rapid fire for Jon here because pretty much every single ship he has is backed by the worst evidence known to man.

The idea that Jon never thinks about Sansa because he loves her the most is dumb and not how we know Jon works. He holds back what he says not what he thinks. He thinks of Sansa the least because despite being his sister, she treated him like shit because she looks down on him for being a bastard. Jon cares about her, but not anywhere near how he cares about his other siblings who have clearly shown him love and respect.

The worst of Jon and Arya is a very very old outline that grrm scrapped. Its an outline that wasnt used and most of it isnt canon so it is literally a piece of non evidence for a ship that is disgusting. (Both Jonsa and Jonrya make Jons good older brother behavior towards his sisters look predatory and the shippers are all literally too blind to realize it)

Jon and Dany have literally nothing to back that up, because they are staged as moral oppositions to one another, dont know the other exists, and the idea that the motif of ice and fire will be about the coming together of romance is antithetical to everything grrm has established about the themes of his story. They are so far from being a ship that literally the ONLY thing they have to support it is the show and thats an absolute joke (see my every post that got me blocked by jonerys stans for more detail)

Ygritte is a rapist, so I accept literally zero "evidence" on that ones validity.

I also hate the "the actors have chemistry" argument to support really bad ships, because some actors having chemistry doesnt equal good romance, it equals good on screen dynamics in its own unique way. Like Tywin and Arya in season 2 have GREAT chemistry, but I don't need to explain why shipping that is creepy. Catelyn and Jaime have great chemistry, but it doesn't mean anything was actually there which could've worked.

Like shipping is fine, but so many people just INSIST it is canon or meant to be instead of something fun to think about. I joke ship about Stannis and Davos because its fun but I'm not over here arguing that people who don't ship it are "ignoring the text in front of them deliberately".

Also honestly, its really funny to me that you had to specify you'd only like that ship if they weren't related. Big oof on that one. Jonerys stans hate the idea they couldn't be related because they somehow think Dany being his AUNT isn't at all creepy. Like, Dany is related to Jon the way Jon thinks hes related to his MOTHER. There is no capability of romance or attraction there, that's crazy.

People who are biologically related but don't know it, 99% of the time are in fact, still not accidentally attracted to each other because that's biological survival instinct. Anti inbreeding protocol. But they think because DANY was raised to think her families blood superiority driven incest is fine, that somehow means JON would think its fine. Jonsas have no argument for that they just have to pray desperately that Jon would want to fuck his little sister despite how much it makes him look like a predator.

I'm sorry, I hope you have water on hand to wash down all this goddamn salt I just threw at you all at once.

Really, it isn't individual lines that irk me, its the overall tendencies of these ships to put more emphasis on things that don't even exist to justify something they don't even realize WHY people think it's creepy. I don't hate a lot of ships, just...all pro incest ones, and ones that promote predatory/rapist behaviors. Which is why I don't ship much in this series.

We're probably not meant to ship many people in this series if I in any way understand even a modicum of why grrm writes the lack of romance the way he does.

[jackoshadows]

There’s just so much dishonest bothsidesing in the discourse about Arya and Sansa in this fandom.

For ex. I saw this post on the tag that got a lot of likes and reblogs and I felt it was so disingenuous regarding what happens in the fandom as well as in ASoIaF.

At no point, have I ever seen any Arya fan on here say that Arya is better than Sansa because she is ‘masculine’. Quite the opposite - we have critiqued this characterization of Arya as being a misogynist take on what it is to be a woman and how characters should not be constrained to patriarchal definitions of femininity and womanhood. Arya thinks that the woman is important too. Arya is just like other girls. Just because she likes to learn sword fighting she is ‘masculine’? How utterly idiotic is that?

On the other hand, you know who is constantly harping on about Arya being ‘masculine’? Sansa stans:

I am not linking to the above post - suffice to say that it’s from a popular Sansa blog. I mean, look at the nonsense above - Arya is ‘masculine’ because her hair is described as a nest?!

We have also never, ever said that Sansa is worthless because she is feminine. Never. This is the gaslighting that is very popular in this fandom and used frequently to give the impression that Sansa is unfairly targeted and hated on because she’s feminine. When in actuality, readers have only ever critiqued her for actual flaws the character has - like her treatment of her younger sibling, her snobby classism, her idealization of beauty rather than the person underneath appearances etc.

It’s Sansa stans who continue to argue that Arya cannot ever be Lady of Winterfell because she’s not the right kind of women. It’s Sansa stans who argue that Arya will never find love, have a romance or be pretty because she’s not the right kind of woman (Has nothing to do with age considering 11-13 year old Sansa is shipped with every Tom, Dick and Harry). It’s Sansa stans who devalue Arya’s political education and participation because she’s not the right kind of woman. It’s Sansa stans who deny Arya is also kind and compassionate because she’s not the right kind of woman.

Book Jonsa as a ship - where they basically take everything from the Jon/Arya relationship in the books - exists because Arya is not the right kind of woman for Sansa stans.

So while Sansa stans argue that Sansa is better than Arya in all ways because she’s ‘feminine’, I have never seen the opposite where readers argued that Arya is better than Sansa because she is ‘masculine’.

This is true when Sansa is a Lannister hostage and Arya is on the run from enemies. Yes, it does not matter whether Sansa adheres to partriarchal notions of femininity and Arya does not - they are both beaten and threatened with rape and suffer hardship.

However, again, the above is being disingenuous by ignoring Sansa and Arya’s childhood in Winterfell. There is a clear difference in how Sansa and Arya were treated in Winterfell because one of them conformed and the other did not.

We see this difference in Arya’s low self-esteem and having low self worth. In Arya feeling like she did not belong. In Sansa and Jeyne Poole mocking Arya as being ugly and horse faced, in her Septa saying she has the hands of a smith because she could not do needle work properly, in her mother telling her that she had to be like Sansa in looks and behavior - making Arya question if her mother would want her back while on the run in the Riverlands.

“…my hair’s messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard.” Robb wouldn’t care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out.“  - Arya, ASoS

Sansa conformed to patriarchal ideals of femininity because she liked it, she was good at it and she thought it an indication of high class and stature (For ex. she thought Arya should have been a bastard because she was not good looking and behaved differently). Arya was unable to conform because she can’t fundamentally change who she is as a person. We are who we are.

As Sam says:

His eyes met Jon’s and darted away, quick as frightened animals. “I… I’m sorry,” he said. “I don’t mean to… to be like I am.” - Jon, AGoT 

As Arya says:

Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother’s fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn.- Arya, AGoT

As Jon says:

Lord Randyll couldn’t make Sam a warrior, and Ser Alliser won’t either. You can’t hammer tin into iron, no matter how hard you beat it, but that doesn’t mean tin is useless. Why shouldn’t Sam be a steward?” - Jon, AGoT

The Septa and Catelyn couldn’t turn Arya into another Sansa because one can’t hammer tin into iron no matter how much one beats it - one of the central themes of GRRM’s story.

Sansa was the favored, beautiful, eldest daughter of the Lord of Winterfell. In canon, in the text, she was not jealous of Arya or sad that Arya did not play with her. Her only problem with Arya is that Arya is not graceful and elegant and beautiful like her, that Arya played with the lower classes like the stable boy and butcher boy, that Arya picked flowers from the marshes and gave it to Ned.

All this is right there in the text:

Sansa knew all about the sorts of people Arya liked to talk to: squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody. - Sansa, AGoT

Why couldn’t Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. - Sansa, AGoT

Sansa threw back her head in disdain. “You? You couldn’t sew a dress fit to clean the pigsties.” Sansa, AGoT

“Hodor!” Sansa yelled. “You ought to marry Hodor, you’re just like him, stupid and hairy and ugly!”  - Sansa, AGoT

“I’m not like Arya,” Sansa blurted. “She has the traitor’s blood, not me. I’m good, ask Septa Mordane, she’ll tell you” - Sansa, AGoT

Sansa had once dreamt of having a sister like Margaery; beautiful and gentle, with all the world’s graces at her command. Arya had been entirely unsatisfactory as sisters went. - Sansa, ACoK

“Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface.”  - The Prince of Winterfell, ADwD

Take this post on the tag that bothsides the sisters’ antagonistic relationship as being due to ‘different interests’ and ‘life philosophies’.

Arya being unable to conform and be good at sewing and singing and not being beautiful and playing with the serving girls is interpreted as her being ‘immature’ and having an ‘ego’...

So what would it take for the sisters to meet in the middle?

Despite Septa Mordane being a terrible teacher, Arya forces herself to spend time sewing, hangs out with Sansa and Jeyne enduring their taunts (Because she can’t change how she looks!), stops playing with whom she wants like the grooms and serving girls, stops hanging out with her father, forces herself to live up to Sansa’s standards of beauty and elegance and being delicate and sweet.

What would it take for Sansa to meet Arya in the middle? Nothing! Because Arya has no expectations on Sansa. Arya doesn’t want Sansa to change the very essence of her being in order for them to be siblings. Arya doesn’t want Sansa to look different or be good at horse riding for her to love Sansa as a sister. Just like Arya loves Jon as a brother despite Jon being a bastard. 

Sansa wants Arya to change and conform, Arya doesn’t want Sansa to change. This is important and the root cause and core reason for why the sisters have a contentious relationship. There can be no discussion or discourse on the relationship of the sisters without acknowledging this important aspect. Fans can go on overhyping the same few lines about ‘Sun and Moon’, however ignoring the discord between them and the why of it is just ignoring a large part of their story, themes and narrative arcs.

These themes are important for Arya’s story. That’s why Arya fans include it in their theorizing about Arya’s story and in discussions about the character’s current and future plot points in the series. That is not Sansa hate. Arya is the outsider, the outcast, unable to fit in because she can’t conform to patriarchal standards.

I’ve always had a soft spot for the outsider, for the underdog. ‘Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things’, as the title of one of the (TV series) episodes goes. The angst that they have in life makes for more conflict, makes for more drama, and there’s something very attractive about that. My Game of Thrones is told by outsiders of both types. None of them fit comfortably into the society into which they’ve been born, and they’re all struggling to find a place for themselves in which they’re valued and loved and respected, despite what their society considers their deficiencies. And out of that, I think, comes good stories. - GRRM

Arya’s relationship with Sansa, Jeyne, Septa Mordane and Catelyn also resonates thematically with Hans Christian Anderson’s Ugly Duckling. It tackles issues of identity, loneliness, not belonging, bullying, feeling low and worthless. It’s about embracing and accepting oneself and loving oneself and Arya’s story is leading towards her being a swan raised among ducks.

And finally, analyzing the effect of the patriarchy on Sansa and Arya from a Watsonian and Doylist perspective is also not hating on Sansa for being feminine. From a Watsonian perspective, Sansa is the favored, high born daughter of the Warden of the North, who could do well in a court of Lords and Ladies. However, the patriarchy - especially in the North - restricting women into what they can and cannot do, means Sansa and Arya are denied the education that Robb and Bran receive.

It’s only because Arya wants different things and does different things that she spends time with her father eating with his men, interacting with his men, listens to him teach his sons, and gains an understanding of the North. So from a Doylist perspective, Arya has the wisdom and knowledge that Ned imparted to his sons, to be a leader of the North.

This is not saying that Sansa is less than for her version of femininity. This is not hating on Sansa for the kind of woman she is. This is saying that because of the constraints the patriarchy places on what girls can and cannot learn, while from a Watsonian perspective Sansa got the happy childhood, beautiful and graceful and excelling in activities assigned solely to the Ladies, from a Doylist perspective Arya’s inability to conform leads to her making choices that could lead to her possibly becoming leader of the North.

This is a critique of the patriarchy in Westeros that puts constraints on what a woman can and should be  - this is something that GRRM tackles in Arya, Brienne, Cersei, Arianne, Asha and Daenerys’ stories, where these characters question and challenge the patriarchy in various (Good and bad) ways. It’s only by breaking existing societal rules and challenging the status quo that female characters can do what their male counterparts get so easily.

Like I mentioned earlier, these are all important plot points that GRRM is weaving into a larger story. The bastard, the cripple, the girl who can’t fit in with her peers, the exile, the dwarf - five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women.

I ended up writing a lot here, but coming back to my point - Sansa fans need to stop bothsidesing and gaslighting the fandom on discussions of the character and the relationship between the sisters.

Again, no one, repeat no one is attacking Sansa for being feminine or liking songs or being good at sewing or having good manners. What is being criticized is her treatment of her younger sibling - that has no relation to Sansa’s femininity. Sansa liking romance songs has nothing to do with her mocking Arya’s appearance or wanting her to be a bastard or siding with Joffrey against her after Joffrey attacks her with a sword.

Don’t be dishonest. Don’t twist what people are actually discussing and saying on the tags into something else. If you don’t have anything to contribute, at least don’t lie and make up stuff.

[cellsshapedlikestars]

Prompt: Winterfell High School doing a play/musical, maybe Sansa as a bit of a bratty actress and Jon working with the lights/sound/off-stage?

it's friday, i don't feel great, i've had a bad day, so here you go, have some nonsense high school jonsa! I hope everyone else is having a lovely friday and has an even lovlier weekend.

also, please note that I have never in my life done a play/musical and I went to maybe ONE in my entire school career and I have no idea how they work so do not @ me theater kids

read it on ao3 here:

ephemera, chapter 29

.

Jon's lounging when she comes storming back, pushing the heavy curtains aside. They're too bulky, and he watches her struggle through them as they barely move, but she manages to get through and when she's in front of him, she brushes a stray hair from her face and scowls at him.

“How hard is it to get spotlights right?” Sansa Stark asks, splotches of red high on her cheeks, her voice pitched up in irritation.

“I dunno,” he shrugs, looking over at said spotlights, ignoring the pull in his gut.

She stares at him, eyes wide, as if she can't comprehend his answer.

“We have three weeks until opening night,” she hisses, eyes narrowing when he doesn't give her any further explanation. “You're going to ruin everything!”

“You know what?” he says, scratching at the stubble on his chin – his newly grown beard. Or, the start of one. He hopes. “I must've switched scenes. I think I've got it now.”

She glares at him, but doesn't say anything else before she turns back around and heads out to the stage.

Jon behaves for the rest of rehearsal.

Mostly.

...

She tries to get him fired, except the drama teacher – who insists everyone call her Miss Melisandre – won't listen.

She had a vision, he overhears her tell Sansa. A vision that Jon Snow would be critical to the success of their play, and so she'd bargained with the principal and plucked him out of suspension and gave him stage duty instead. He knows he should be grateful that he isn't actually suspended, but he'd almost rather be than have to do a stupid school play.

The only upside is getting to see Sansa Stark regularly. Getting to watch her on stage, in her element, as she recites her lines perfectly. Not that he'd ever admit that out loud.

He never misses his cues with her. The only person he does-

“Can we please get Joffrey's light?” Sansa's voice echoes from the stage, an edge to it that makes it sound like she's five seconds away from murdering Jon.

Jon can't help the roll of his eyes as he leans over and turns Joffrey's light on. It's off center, and he keeps it that way.

“Just keep going, we'll fix the lights later,” he hears Miss Melisandre say.

Jon sits back where he was before, in his spot with the perfect view of the stage between the curtains, annoyed that they're continuing. Annoyance that morphs into a different sort of thing when Joffrey says his line and goes in for a kiss.

Jon looks away.

...

He's in a bad fucking mood today.

Ramsay was up to his normal bullshit. Apparently he didn't learn his lesson the last time, when Jon beat his face in for what he did to Sam. The thing that landed him a suspension, which threw him at the drama club's mercy.

He's early, because he needed to get away from Ramsay, before he lost his shit again, and he figured some alone time before the drama club arrived would do him good.

Just as he's passing the costume room, he hears something that makes him pause.

Someone's crying.

Not your business, he tells himself.

But instead of walking past the room like he knows he should, he lets out a sigh and opens the door.

Sansa looks up at him, nose red, face pale, eyes wet and shining, her mascara pooling beneath them.

“What are you doing here?” she spits, though the venom is lost when her voice hitches halfway through.

“You okay?” he asks, because he doesn't know what else to do. He's not great with emotions - or words - which is why he ended up fixing the Ramsay situation with his fists.

“Don't act like you care,” she says, it comes out stilted as she continues to cry. “I've been,” a hiccup, “practicing so hard,” another, “for this to be perfect.”

“The play?”

“Of course the play!”

“You've got your lines down,” he points out, shoving his hands into his pockets as guilt starts to creep through him.

“Not the kissing scene,” she argues. “We never get through it properly because you-” her voice breaks, but she keeps on, “-can't light it right, ever.” He winces, eyes dropping to the floor because he can't bring himself to look at her anymore. “I know you think the drama club is stupid-”

“I don't,” he interrupts, heart picking up pace in his chest until it's thrumming, beating out of control. “I mean, it's not my thing, but I don't think it's stupid.”

She watches him for a moment, eyes roving his face like she's looking for the lie.

“You're, uh,” he continues when she doesn't say anything, “you're really good. At acting.”

She's still watching him, eyes narrowed in suspicion. He feels the weight of her stare, guilt sitting like a stone in his stomach.

“I'll get it right from now on, I-”

He doesn't get a chance to finish, because suddenly there are voices in the hall. She quickly wipes at her eyes and picks up her bookbag and leaves the room, he guesses before anyone can see them together. He doesn't really blame her. She might be a theater nerd, but at least she isn't a loser burnout like him.

He gives her a head start – a long one - but he makes sure he shows up for the start of rehearsal on time.

...

On opening night, she's glowing.

In her pretty dress with her hair down, she looks like she's just stepped out of some sort of fairytale, which he figures is appropriate. Everyone looks good, he tries to reason. They did a good job with the wardrobe and makeup. Except Joffrey. He still looks like a weaselly little shit.

The play goes perfectly.

He wasn't joking when he told Sansa he'd get it right from now on. He always could, he was just being... petty, his mind whispers, even though he tries to ignore it.

At the end, he watches her bow to the audience and he wishes he could've seen it from their perspective, he wishes he could get the full force of her smile. He only gets pieces of it, as she turns to look at her fellow actors lined up on the stage next to her, wide and toothy, eyes shining.

He waits until they're all off the stage, then shuts down the spotlights, and he waits for the theater to empty before turning off the lights completely.

He grabs his bag and slips out, past all the theater kids standing in the halls with their parents, through the noise and bustle and excitement. They're all going to Denny's after, but Jon isn't. He wasn't really invited, except for the time a few of the girls cornered him after rehearsal and told him about it. He'd declined, and hadn't been asked again.

It's not really his scene, anyway.

As he's headed to his truck, he hears a voice call his name, and he halts in his tracks.

“Aren't you coming to Denny's?” Sansa's standing in the parking lot behind him, a bouquet of cheap grocery store flowers clutched in her hands.

“Uh,” he says, dragging his eyes from the flowers up to her face. “I'm not-”

“We're all going,” she cuts him off, though this time she doesn't seem mad at him. “They've got good pancakes.”

“Oh,” he stutters, like an idiot. “I don't think anyone wants me-”

“Sometimes they give us free fries, if Nan is working.”

“Guess some food would be nice,” he says slowly, and he watches her nod, as if that's exactly what she wanted.

He heads back towards the school, feeling like this is all some sort of prank, and she falls into step next to him.

“Aren't these pretty?” she asks, holding up the flowers.

“They look sorta cheap,” he shrugs, staring straight ahead, refusing to look at them again. “I'm sure you got a million flowers.”

He knows she did. He saw them when he snuck into her dressing room earlier and set that cheap bouquet among them.

“Doesn't say who gave them,” she hums, twisting the flowers around in her hand, as if that will magically make a card appear. “Margie says a secret admirer.”

Jon's face feels hot, and he shrugs again.

“Do you think you'll do the spring musical?” she asks.

“Oh, I don't know. I was only doing this becauase-” he can't finish the sentence, though he knows it's no secret he'd been suspended originally.

“I should give these to my parents, they're taking the rest home,” she says, when he doesn't keep talking. “Wait for me?”

“Yeah, okay,” he pauses, and watches her run back out into the parking lot, towards people loading flowers into a minivan. Her family – he recognizes Robb, who graduated last year, and Arya, a few years below them.

When she runs back to him, she's got one of his flowers tucked into her hair, and it makes his stomach flip.

“Let's go,” she says, then gives him one of those megawatt smiles, and he knows that he'll sign up for the spring musical.

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

I've come across your Jonsa metas and love your insight into this couple. Makes me feel not crazy for reading into everything that we've seen and heard between Jon and Sansa. As I've been reading your metas, I started wondering why Dany was so intensely focused on Sansa. I mean it's weird right? Dany appeared to be quite upset about one person not liking her. But that shouldn't have mattered to her because it wasn't necessarily going to stop her from getting the Iron Throne. So I wanted to hear your thoughts on this? Was Dany's dislike merely jealousy because of Jon? Or was it just insecurity as she's not had many beautiful women to compare with? Or was it something else?

Hi @bluedaffodil21! Thank you so much, you are too kind!!! =D I apologize for the delay in my response.

I think Dany was so intensely focused on Sansa for two reasons: 1) because Sansa was representative of the North/Jon while also being the one that Jon seemed to listen to/have respect & affection for, and 2) because Sansa appeared to be the ruler that Dany herself could never be (meaning Dany had tried but failed in Mereen & then wasn't wanted in Westeros and yet, as she saw it, this girl had the respect and love she wanted without even trying). So I definitely think jealousy plays a role in it and not just due to Jon. I also think that Sansa was also a representative of the reception Dany was getting from Westeros since she arrived there. Here, Dany's manipulative tactics don't work and the person that sees Dany for who she is, who has the love she doesn't, and can't be manipulated is a real threat. If that makes sense.

I think when Jon bent the knee and gave the North away that he did it for two reasons: to protect the North from the NK (as we already knew) but also because he knew Sansa could lead the North if he couldn't (not that he thought she would be named QitN or would want her to be if Dany took over but he knew she would speak for the North and lead them if they all survived). Which to me just cements that link Jon and Sansa have when it comes to Dany, that Sansa is the part of Jon (and the Stark/North part I guess) that she can't bend to her will. We see Royce's deference to Sansa in Dany's presence, we see Theon returning to fight for "Lady Sansa", we see the Northern Lords' respect for Sansa when she speaks in the Great Hall, we even see Jon agreeing with Sansa over Jaime and no one protesting, and we see Tyrion noticing Royce's deference to Sansa as well. So for Dany, I think Sansa was the ultimate threat, even more than Cersei. While Cersei had one thing she wanted, Sansa had the other: people's love and respect. And then for Jon to have it as well when she talks about it in 8x04, that infuriates her even more. Which is why I think Sansa comes up in conversation in that 8x04 scene (besides the truth telling part of the convo). Dany is airing out her grievances against the two who would be a solid power couple and for Jon to not only have the claim to the IT now, but also to have respect and love for Sansa as well, oh does that burn Dany deep down.

So I think that's why Dany is so focused on her. And It's fascinating to me because not only the Jon/Sansa connection which solidifies them even more, but also it solidifies the parallels/connection between Sansa, Cersei, and Dany even more. Truly fascinating stuff.

I hope I was able to answer your question. Thank you so much for the ask! I LOVE talking about GoT, especially when it comes to Jonsa and/or Dany. So thank you! =)

I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day!!! <3

[reginarubie]

so i have a recent obsession with the song until I found you. And I think it's a crime that it doesn't have a jonsa fan mad music video but anyways. Would you be willing I write a one shot based on how the song makes you feel around this ship? So that Everytime I day dream with this song I'll dream of your words. Of course only when your current brain riots for certain FICS are on pose have writer's block. No rush, just be here twirling with jonsa in a field of flowers

Well, nonny (Hi ;D)

to be honest it is quite a Jonsa song, that one, especially considering Jon was all dark and brooding and darkness and cold is all the remains and then boom!, here enters Sansa on her tiptoes and Jon is like “Found you. Mine. Must protect” and everything he had lost suddenly pours out and onto Sansa as if she has brought back light into his world and he nows has a purpose again.

Now... I would be more than willing to write such a one shot, quick question, would you rather a modern setting or a canon setting?

Let me know whilst I brainstorm what to bring forth ;) Safe to say you'll get the one shot soon :*

Sending all my love ~G.

Oh, and btw, here: just so you can keep twirling in your field of flowers with Jonsa:

Asha spat to the ground. Starks, she thought with a sneer, all they thought was that they were high and mighty, and yet there was only an handful of them to speak of. With all their talks about honor and holier-than-thou attitude it was not a wonder Theon had become such a prissy. The Stark woman didn't give not even a hint of having noticed her, less than ladylike, behavior. She stood with a blue veil at her head and her dress was clearly Stark in coloring. Asha supposed she had paid the golden price for it, she might even have fun tear it off her, if her guard-dog of a brother wouldn't be so stiff. (...) “Whatever the reason to imprison us here?,” Asha demanded with boredom seeping into her tone “I was under the impression we had reached an agreement, though perhaps I ought not to put faith in the words of an oathbreaker or his Lannister of a sister” “That agreement was broken the moment we received news Shireen Baratheon had been murdered,” lady Stark — or was it the de facto acting Queen in the North? Asha could not remember, though she remembered distinctly they called her ‘Her Grace—this’ and ‘Her Grace—that’ — told her “all your worth resides in the fact that the prince of Winterfell was alive and safe, but if the heir to the Iron throne was not safe from her own father, then on which grounds do you think you can parlay with us about your brother's fate?” She got quite the bite for a whiny princess, Asha had to admit. She could respect that. A kraken could respect another beast when it saw it. She shrugged “I am still your best bet,” she said nonchalantly. Lady Stark jutted her chin up at that, in a way that was so easily abrasive and annoying, because it made Asha want to stand at order, she forced herself to slouch lower. “Are you now?” she asked, and, quite suddenly the King in the North appeared at her side, wearing a dark black jerkin — what a surprise there — but there was something strange in his appearance, something Asha could not pinpoint. “You see, lady Asha, I've spent long years in Kings Landing but I've never forgotten the old way, king Stannis has committed kinslaying by murdering his own child for the Iron throne. I am sure that...with the right candidate, we could easily dispose of him and take back our brother, as for yours... he shall face judgment for his crimes” she added, her voice never wavering despite the slight tremble in her hands.

Yep, it's almost here, the new chapter of «Like wolves in the Darkness»!

As always sending all my love ~G.

[greenhikingboots]

Jonsa Prompt - Kiss

My contibution to the Jonsa prompt “kiss” is under the cut because, like everything else I’ve ever written, it ended up being about 4x times longer than anticipated. (about 2,200 words total, more than intended for a ficlet).

It’s inspired by pre-canon + kissing game theories and that canon line, “He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but “my half brother” since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant.”

[Disclaimer! I’m not sure how old they’re supposed to be here. As I wrote it, I was thinking Sansa and Bran have a larger age gap between them than they do and that this ficlet would take place before he was born. But a quick Google search two minutes ago told me there’s only four years between them, so just go with it, I guess. 🙃]

They approached the tree in which Sansa hid from opposite directions. Theon from the left, Jon from the right. Due to their necks being strained upwards, their eyes searching for her, neither of them noticed the other until they were close by and spoke at the same time.

“Aha! Got you!” Theon shouted. “There you are,” Jon said softly. They looked at each other, frowning, then back at Sansa who kicked her feet lazily below the tree branch. She would need one of them to help her get down just as she had needed Robb’s help to get up. That was the reason she hadn’t wanted to play this new game, Maiden in the Tower. She’d have much preferred Hide and Find, a game with a similar concept but without the requirement of her sitting in a branch high above the ground. The boys had insisted, though. “It’s more fun with a reward,” Robb had said. “Make Arya be your maiden, then,” Sansa had counted. “You know that wouldn’t work. She can’t sit still long enough.” And so Sansa had relented. Far be it from her to spoil the fun of the three boys she loved best, even if they were also the three boys she found most obnoxious. “Now what?” she asked two of them some thirty minutes after the onset of the game, her feet still kicking through the air. “Now the winner gets a kiss from the maiden,” Theon said. He sounded exasperated, like he couldn’t fathom why he had to explain the rules to her a second time. “And the loser takes the next turn against Robb,” he added, sounding quite the same. Sansa glared at him. “I meant how do we decide who’s the winner and who’s the loser when you spotted me at exactly the same time.” Theon grinned. He often did that. Everything was amusing to him, even matters which shouldn’t have been. “Oh, I don’t know,” he said. “Perhaps you should choose the winner, fair maiden. Which of us would you like to bestow with a kiss?” At that, Jon scoffed and turned to walk away. Just as Theon often grinned, Jon often assumed he would be overlooked. Sansa supposed it was because he was a bastard and they were often overlooked. “I choose Jon,” she announced primly. It delighted her to behave unexpectedly every now and then. It also delighted her to disappoint Theon. All the boys in the castle thought better of themselves than they should, even Jon who couldn’t be bothered to respond graciously when he was truly overlooked. But Theon was the worst offender. He needed a lesson in humility, Sansa decided. And so, a lesson she would give him. Jon spun on his heels and looked at Sansa. He looked at Theon. A moment later, when he shrugged, it seemed as if he wanted to appear less pleased than he was. He reached up to help Sansa out of the tree, and then her feet landed in front of him with a quiet thud. Sansa left her hands placed on Jon’s arms as she rose on her tiptoes to kiss him. Any other day and she would have puckered her lips to keep them firm. She would have made the kiss short and without feeling. Today, however, she did the opposite. Sansa kissed Jon with tender lips and with a hint of appreciation and longing. He pulled back almost immediately, his face flushed with surprise. Good, Sansa thought. That means the difference was noticeable. She turned to Theon with a smug smile on her face, but it slipped away when he burst into laughter. “Seven hells, Sansa,” he said. “I know you tire of my arrogance, but you don’t have to commit a sin to prove a point. I apologize for assuming you’d pick me over Jon.” Theon’s apology pleased Sansa, but part of it confused her too. “But kissing isn’t a sin,” she said. Not even kissing with tender lips. Not even when done outside of marriage. She knew this for certain because she’d asked Mother once, after her friend Jeyne Poole admitted to wanting to kiss Robb. “It’s a sin if the person you’re kissing is your brother and the way you’re kissing him is like that,” Theon insisted. Sansa rolled her eyes. So Theon wanted to make her feel foolish because she’d made him feel foolish? Fine. She could handle that. “Well, good thing Jon is no more my brother than you are,” she said. Both Theon and Jon’s expressions twisted into ones which were difficult to read, though they hinted at a belief that Sansa had turned into a fool. That worried her. Jon wouldn’t look at her that way unless she’d done something to deserve it. “Was that a jape?” Theon asked. “If so, it’s not a very good one.” For one wild second, Sansa considered agreeing. Why, yes, that was a jape, she might have said. But the word sin gnawed at her. She didn’t understand. What had she done wrong? “I love you both as well as I love my brother,” she said, “but you, Theon, are a ward. And you, Jon, are a bastard. Meaning you aren’t truly related to me. So why —” Sansa never finished her sentence for Theon burst into another fit of laughter, this one as loud as any she’d heard in her life. She kept her eyes glued to him, expecting him to rasp out a few words through his fit, to say something that would make his reaction make sense. Instead, it was Jon who spoke through Theon’s laughter. “Stop it, Greyjoy,” he said. “Can’t you see she’s embarrassed enough as it is?” Theon clutched his chest and quieted himself. “Sansa. Oh, Sansa,” he said, still grinning. “What is it, exactly, that you believe a bastard to be?” Though she knew her answer would be wrong, she gave it anyway. What else could she do? “An orphan raised in a castle,” she muttered. She left out the part about a kind-hearted lord or lady having to first take favor on the orphan. To her, that part seemed essential, even if it was implied. Hadn’t it always been worded that way? This is Jon, Lord Stark’s bastard. But to say so now would do her no favors, she realized. Theon laughed again, and Jon moved towards him with a clenched fist. Theon backed away, his arm stretched in front of him like a shield. “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry,” he rushed to say, though amusement still shone in his eyes. Jon slowed his steps and loosened his fist, but he didn’t fully yield until they heard Robb calling out to them. “What’s going on here?” he asked. “She kissed him,” Theon hollered in reply.

“Well, that is the point of the game,” Robb quipped. “No, no. She really kissed him.” Robb stopped in his tracks. His eyebrows furrowed. “Why would you do that?” he asked Sansa. “I didn’t know it was wrong,” she whined. “I still don’t understand why it was. They haven’t explained it to me.” “Because he’s your brother,” Robb said, as if that was obvious. “No he isn’t,” Sansa insisted. “He’s a bastard.” “He’s your half-brother and a bastard.” Robb sounded like he thought that should settle it, but Sansa still didn’t understand. She threw up her hands, too frustrated to be embarrassed any longer. “I don’t know what that means. How can someone be half a brother?” A loud bark of laughter shot out of Theon before he clasped his hand over his mouth to muffle the noise. Sansa ignored him and faced Jon, who she hoped she could count on for a kinder explanation than the other two were likely to give her. But Jon, she saw, was facing Robb, so she gave in and did likewise. “Father wasn’t faithful to Mother during the war,” Robb said. “He put a babe in another woman’s belly and now that babe has grown up to be Jon. He’s our half-brother because we share one parent but not the other. And he’s a bastard because he was born outside of a lawful marriage.” Sansa felt like she’d been hit over the head with the pommel of a sword. How was she supposed to have known all that? No one had ever told her before. “Who explained that to you? Was it Father?” she asked. Robb seemed to consider the question rather seriously for a moment. “I don’t remember him telling me, though I suppose he must have when I was quite young,” he said. “Perhaps he told you when you were young too,” Jon suggested, looking at Sansa now. “But you forgot, same as Robb.” “That’s ridiculous. If Father had told me something like that, I’d have remembered it. He must have thought only the boys needed to know.” Sansa was seething. She could hear her little sister’s voice sounding off between her ears. Girls are important too! That was true, and they deserved to understand the ways of Westeros just as much as boys did. She wanted to march off and tell her Father so. She might have done it right then, had she known what part of the castle to find him in.  “I’m done with this game,” Sansa declared. “I’m going to my chambers to rest.” Theon made an odd sound, something like a protest. They all turned to stare at him. “But Robb and I have two wins each,” he said. “Let’s have one final round. Please, Sansa? I bet it’ll help settle your uh… your anger.” Had Theon wanted to say embarrassment? Either way, Sansa doubted very much that he had the right of it. But since neither Robb nor Jon spoke up in her defense, she decided it was better to agree. Perhaps even if another round didn’t help settle her embarrassment or anger, it would help settle Theon’s fits of laughter. “One more,” she said, “but that’s it.” The four of them walked back to the front of the godswood, just as they’d done before each previous round of Maiden in the Tower, though this time they walked in silence. Once there, the tension lingered. Sansa noticed the way Jon scuffed the dirt with his boots. He doesn’t want to initiate the next part, she thought. He doesn’t want to be alone with me. “Jon, you won the last round,” Robb said, “but Theon and I are tied, remember? That means it’s your turn to help Sansa find a tree.” “Right,” Jon grumbled with a nod. He turned over his shoulder and beckoned Sansa to follow him. “Let’s go, my dear half-sister,” he added after a moment. “Are you trying to be funny,” she asked as she caught up to him. “I’m trying to lighten the mood, yes. I don’t want you feeling badly about what you did.” Sansa thought to argue, to say that she didn’t feel badly. The way she kissed him had been an honest mistake. But then the word Theon had used came back to her. Sin. “Do you think it’s truly a sin?” she asked Jon. He shook his head. “Had you known better, it would have been. But you didn’t and so I’m sure the gods won’t hold it against you.” “What about Father? Will the gods hold his sins against him?” They hadn’t yet reached a tree fitted for their game, but Jon came to an abrupt stop and so Sansa did too. She looked at his face and saw that something like regret was etched across it. Was this why he hadn’t wanted to be alone with her? He hadn’t wanted to discuss Father?  “I won’t make excuses for the worst of his mistakes,” JOn said, “but at the same time, I won’t regard him as anything less than an honorable man.” “And that’s the position you think I should take as well?” Sansa asked. “It’s not my place to tell you what position to take.” That made Sansa smile, though she’d felt far from able to a moment earlier. She thought how, despite his tendency towards moodiness, Jon always found his way back to level thinking. She liked that about him. Admired it, even. She gave him a nod of acknowledgement and then began to walk again. Jon followed and soon enough they found a tree worthy of a maiden’s tower. Sansa stood with her back to the branch. “Ready?” she asked Jon. “Ready.” He put his hands on her waist, then lifted her into the tree. “I’ll go to tell the others they can begin their search now,” he said before walking away, leaving Sansa to stare at the back of his head. “Jon?” she called out suddenly. He spun on his heels, just as he’d done when she’d chosen him to receive her kiss. “Fair maiden?” he teased. “I wanted to say thank you. For not laughing at me earlier. And for trying to get Theon to stop.” Jon smirked. “That’s quite alright. I’m sure it is I who should be thanking you.” “What for?” “For bestowing me with your kiss, of course.” “It pleased you?” Jon ran a nervous hand over the back of his neck. “Don’t tell the others,” he said. “They’ll think it means something it doesn’t.” Sansa’s heart fluttered with appreciation at that. As Jon walked away for good, she said a silent prayer to the gods, thanking them for giving her such a wonderful half-brother. I’ll never call him a bastard again, she thought. He’s more to me than that.

[sailorshadzter]

im back again because WHY THE HELL NOT.

nsfw jonsa under the cut. ;-D

They’ve been here before; torn between what was and what could be. 

She looks up, blue eyes meeting Stark gray, a familiar feeling welling up within her. “Sansa…” Her name is soft upon his lips, a reminder of what was and what would never be again. He’s all she’s wanted, all she’s known, all she’s loved. “I’m sorry,” is all he says next, thinking of everything he’s had to do to get them to where they are now. 

“Did you bend the knee for the North, or because you love her?” She spits through gritted teeth, hating herself for asking, hating herself for thinking she already knows the answer. 

Jon pauses, those Stark eyes blinking back at her with surprise. “Have you no faith in me at all?” He asks quietly, devastatingly, rendering her speechless for what feels like a lifetime. 

“You know I do,” she finally says, hands twisting together as she stands there before him. She opens her mouth to speak again, but there’s a knock on the solar door, interrupting whatever it was she was about to say. Jon steps away, sinking into his usual place on the corner of the desk, while Lord Royce enters with a bow. “My lord, my lady,” he greets, noticing at once the energy of the room; the tension was palpable, he could cut it through with a sword, if he so wished. “There’s a rider at the gate,” he’s come to say, though he dares not say the name of the man that’s appeared at Winterfell. “He wishes to speak with you, my lady.” 

“Send him to the hall, we will be there shortly.” She says and when Lord Royce has turned and gone, she shifts back to Jon, who still yet sits on the desk, looking back at her with those somber eyes of his. There’s so many things she wants to say, so many things she wishes she could make right. This new world of theirs, one full of war and fear, she supposes they should be used to it by now. She wishes they could return to those few short weeks when they had first reclaimed Winterfell, before the Night King consumed his every waking thought, before Westeros was torn apart by lions and dragons.

If only they could be happy again, if only they could find some ounce of peace.

[ x x x ]

In the end, it is Jaime Lannister there at the gate. 

After much back and forth, he is allowed to stay, thanks to Brienne’s words that strike another nerve within her. For the first time, an enemy has become a friend, rather than the way she’s certainly used to. 

“Sansa!”

She turns at the sound of her name down the hall and as she turns, there is Jon once more, chasing her down. They’ve just left out of the meeting and she’s intent on finding even just a single moment to herself, but it seems Jon has other thoughts. “Are you truly okay with Jaime Lannister staying here?” He asks softly and she shrugs, the first smile appearing on her lips in days. 

“If Brienne trusts him, then so do I.” She replies, thinking back to the way her sworn shield had looked when she so passionately spoke- if Sansa didn’t know any better, Brienne might have had feelings for the man. “Besides, it’s as you said, we need every man we can get,” she turns to go but he’s grabbing her by the arm then, turning her back around to face him.  There in that hallway, he’s looking at her in such a way that it sends shivers down her spine, warmth pooling in her belly that she’s never felt before. 

Down the corridor, Lord Royce steps out of the great hall and pauses just long enough to smile at the sight of them, before moving on with the rest of the lords exiting. He supposes his lady and lord will make up sooner than he had thought. 

“I know you’re angry with me, but we must talk,” he says in a hushed tone, his hand yet to stray from its place on her elbow. She looks up into those eyes and she swallows, knowing that despite everything, he’s got a hold on her she cannot deny. So, she nods. 

He guides her back upstairs and into the solar they’ve shared all this time, though it feels more like her room now that he stands within it again. Ghost snoozes before the hearth, though when they come in through the door, the wolf rises up and comes, not to greet either of his masters, but rather to drop down onto the floor again, in front of the now closed door. They stand together at the center of the room, but an arm’s length apart, he watches as she tucks a stray strand of hair behind an ear, wishing it was him that did it. “We must talk, you say, so let us,” she says then, sharper than she intends; always sharper than she intends. 

Jon clears his throat, nodding, wondering just where to go with this, the truth that rests there on the tip of his tongue. Words he’s wished to say for months now, words that will ruin what is left between them, or perhaps… Jon supposes, in the end, they’re all likely to die in the coming war, so he might as well be honest with her before it happens. He may spend their final days at odds with her, but at least he’s been honest. And then again… There was that off chance that what he wants to say will only make her smile and maybe… Just maybe… They may spend their final days in pure bliss instead. 

“Jon…” Her voice brings him back and he realizes he’s not spoken a word yet. 

That’s when he realizes there's no words he can say to explain himself to her, so, instead he takes a single step closer, closing the gap between them. His arms come around her and she does not resist, rather she sinks into his grasp, soft and warm beneath his touch. For a single moment, all was as it once was, back before he’d ever left for Dragonstone. Back when he was still the one she turned to in her darkest of moments, back when he would look at her and find she was already looking at him. 

Without any more hesitation, he leans in and kisses her. 

She’s surprised by this kiss, but what’s even more surprising is just how right it feels. Sansa gives into the warmth of it, her own arms coming around him as she opens her mouth to his tongue. It is only when he needs air that he breaks free, breathing hard, but a hairsbreadth apart from her, only to find she’s smiling as brightly as he is. “I thought you wanted to talk,” she teases and he’s laughing before he kisses her again, his hands at the small of her back as her own hands slide into his unruly curls. The kiss ends, simply so he might kiss the corner of her mouth, so he might move to her neck, teeth sinking into the soft ivory skin there, uncaring of the bruises he leaves behind. His name is there on her own lips, her hands still tangled in his hair as his creep their way up from her back, running the length of her spine with a gentle touch. 

For a single instant, all is how it was supposed to be. 

When her hand brushes across the hardened length of him inside his breeches, he knows he can’t wait much more. He’s backing her up now and it isn’t until she’s pressing against the edge of the desk that he stops, though his arms come around her so he can lift her up onto it. She’s fumbling with her skirts, pulling them up over her knees which Jon has already gently pushed apart. His hand is gentle and warm, calloused fingers tracing along the inside of her thigh, the softness of her skin sending waves of pleasure through his own body. “Sansa…” He speaks her name in a way she’s never heard before and that was almost enough to cease her breathing. His hand is creeping further up her thigh and she can feel his lingering touch on her most sensitive of spots, but his eyes have not yet left hers. She gives a single nod and that’s when she feels a finger slide inside of her, causing a gasp to leave her lips. He’s leaning up, his free hand propping him up on the desk beside her, all so he can kiss her as he slips a second finger in. She’s shuddering beneath his touch, rocking with it, barely able to kiss him as the pleasure flows through her entire body. Never in all of her life has she felt something like this before. 

“Jon!” She’s gasping his name as she breaks away, head thrown back as his fingers do the work, the grin on his face one she’s never seen before. Hearing her speak his name in such a way is almost enough to undo him and Jon pulls his fingers from her, though her mewl of protest makes him chuckle. As he fumbles with the laces of his breeches, she realizes why he’s stopped and she’s reaching out then, unlacing him with her own hands. When he’s sprung free from the confines of his breeches, she’s touching the length of him, hesitantly, and he takes hold of one hand, guiding her until her touch becomes far more confident. Now it’s he who has his head thrown back in pleasure, moaning her name in a way he never once thought he might do, no matter how badly he’s wished it. 

He can take it no longer now and he moves between her and she’s throwing an arm casually over his shoulder, their eyes meeting once more, his brimming with a silent question. When she smiles, it’s all he needs to continue, and he slips himself inside of her. She gives another gasp and at once she’s writhing beneath him, back arching as she calls out his name. His mouth clamps down over hers, silencing her, but the way she moans into his mouth instead fills him with a sense of lust he’s never felt before. Jon supposes what they’re doing is wrong, the feelings he’s always had for her are wrong, but… Then again… How could something wrong, feel this right? 

The desk is thumping with their movements, but he’s too close to stop now- and from the way she’s digging her nails into his shoulder, she wouldn’t allow him to stop even if he wanted. He’s thrusting harder, deeper, and she’s rolling her hips to meet his every movement, knees anchored to his hips, driving him further into her. Her head is thrown back again as he hits the most delicious of places and seeing her in such a way is what finally undos him entirely. When he’s spilled his seed, he pulls out from her and falls still as she leans into him, panting, her head pressed against his shoulder as his other arm comes around her. 

For a short while, that was where they remained, until finally she drew back simply so she might look up at him, meeting his eyes. She cannot believe what they’ve just done, but, at the same time, she cannot believe it’s taken them so long. “Are you still angry with me?” He asks and she laughs, shaking her head as he steps back so she can slide down from the desk, her wrinkled skirts falling back to the floor. “I never meant to upset you,” he sobers, arms coming around her hips, drawing her back in. “I did what I had to… To keep the North safe… To keep you safe.” He murmurs, pressing a kiss against her hair, breathing in her sweet, familiar scent. 

“I should have had more faith in you,” she says softly, thinking back to their earlier exchange- she was always so quick to put up her guard, to assume the worst in people, but he deserved better than that from her. After all they’ve been through together, after all he had done for her until now… Why would this time be any different? “I’m sorry for not trusting you.” 

Jon smiles and shakes his head, as if she needn’t even bother apologizing. “I love you, Sansa,” he speaks the truth, the words he’s known since before Winterfell was even theirs again. “I’ll keep you safe, no matter what else comes,” an army of the undead, a dragon queen, or a golden lioness, he would fight them all, if only to keep her safe from harm. She kisses him, her only response, the only one that seems to make any sense at all. 

[ x x x ]

When he finds her next, she’s coming out of her own rooms, dressed in a gown of black and gray wool he’s never seen before. She is every inch a Northern lady, no, queen, with her red hair woven back into braids like her lady mother used to wear, her head held high. “Jon,” she greets with that new, secret smile they seem to share a dozen times a day now and Jon offers his arm to her to take. 

“A white walker has been spotted, not far from Winterfell,” he speaks quickly, thinking of the message that had just been delivered to him a short while ago. “I imagine… The battle will come tonight.” She slows in her pace to a stop and turns wide blue eyes upon him. She’s known all along that this day would come, but now that it’s truly here, she’s unprepared. To think of the loss that may come… No, she dares not to think about it. All would be well. All had to be well. “I’ve called a meeting, we must discuss the final plans.” She nods, swallowing down her fears, because now she has to be stronger than ever. Her people and her family were counting on her to be their leader, to be the fearless lady they’ve come to know in these passing months. 

She would not let any one of them down. 

[ x x x ]

They win, somehow, someway, they win. 

When he’s stumbled back to his rooms after the celebration feast, he strips from his outermost layers, leaving behind his rumpled white shirt and the breeches she’d unlaced him from just a few short days ago. He’s drunk and truth was, he’s looking forward to falling into his bed and sleeping it off, to wake well past the morning call, probably with a throbbing headache.

But, the door opens and when he looks up, there she is; the dragon queen. 

Their words are brief, full of anger, the truth settled between them like a burning fire. “Fine… Let it be fear,” she whispers as she backs up, thinking of what she’s seen since being in Winterfell. “We leave for King’s Landing at once, do not forget your oath to me.” She straightens her spine and she turns on her heel, striding from the room before Jon can speak a single word- it would have only hurt her more to know he would have spoken nothing at all. 

Out in the hall as she rounds a corner, it’s the Lady of Winterfell that she bumps into, rosy cheeked from the wine she’s drunk all night long. “Your grace,” she slurs with a clumsy curtsy, rising up to meet the violet eyed stare without fear. Then she passes on without so much as a backwards glance, pushing open the door which Daenerys had only just strode out of, without even a knock upon it. She disappears behind the door and Daenerys lets out the breath she’s been holding before she storms away, back towards the rooms she would sleep in for only one night more.

In his rooms, Jon is wrapping her in his arms, breathing her in, relishing in the warmth of her skin against his, in the sweet scent of the rosewater she’s washed her hair in. “The dragon queen…” Sansa begins, but is cut off by Jon’s kiss, his hands sliding into her hair, knocking the pins loose without a care. 

“Don’t speak of her,” he commands when he’s drawn back, lips moving to her earlobe, to her throat, where beneath the high collar of her scaled gown hides the proof of their first time together. Perhaps emboldened by the alcohol he’s consumed or the knowledge that they had survived, he’s tugging at the laces of her gown as his teeth once more take hold of the soft skin of her neck. For one moment, he doesn’t want to think of what else was to come, but rather, he would like to think about the feeling of her naked frame beneath him in his bed. 

And so, when her laces are finally loose, he draws her towards his unkempt bed, settling himself onto the edge of it to watch as she slowly frees herself from the gown. It falls to the floor, pooling at her ankles and she steps out of it to sink down onto his lap, a knee on either side of him on the bed. She’s kissing him now, intensely, fervently, her hands in his hair, tugging gently until the bun comes free and his curls are caught between her fingers. She opens her mouth to his kiss and he’s sliding his hands up beneath her shift, fingertips tracing the length of her spine, sending chills down it. 

“Lay down,” he whispers a few moments later and she does as he bids, climbing over him so she can settle back against the pillows that smell like him, smiling up at him as he looms overhead. He’s never seen her more beautiful, he realizes, then seeing her there in his bed, as if this was where she was always meant to lay. He thinks back to those early days in Castle Black, when she would slip into his bed out of fear, when she would only sleep curled up next to him. Now, he hopes she would only ever climb into his bed for this one reason alone. His hands take hold of the hem of her shift and slowly works it up over her head, tossing it down to the floor to join her gown. His shirt comes next and then he’s leaning over her to kiss her, to run his hands the length of her body, one hand groping at her bare breasts while the other takes hold of her hip. 

Their first time together had been so unexpected, it was nothing like what this one would be. 

His kiss moves from her mouth down to her collarbone, down to her breasts, his left hand still enclosed around one, thumb rubbing circles against her perfect pink nipple. The hand on her hip travels lower still and he’s running his fingertips across her skin, seeing now what he’d not seen the first time- her beauty was almost unreal to him, for he cannot believe a creature such as she could even exist, let alone want to be with him in such a way. Despite the familial ties she still thinks binds them, she wants this, she wants him. And he doesn’t know it, but in her own head, she’s thinking the exact same thing. For once, this was a man who wanted her for her, not for her title or her name.

“Jon…” She speaks his name softly and he looks up, gray eyes meeting blue. He smiles, he can’t help it, realizing then how hopelessly in love he is with her. “What is it?” She asks, noting his smile, her own appearing as she flushes crimson beneath his gaze. 

“You are so beautiful,” he says honestly, the only thing he can think of. 

She laughs and he leans down so he can kiss her, a slow, soft kiss, one quite unlike the rest they’ve shared. Jon knows in the morning he must tell her the truth about his birth and that he has no choice but to go South with the dragon queen, but for this one last night, he selfishly wants things to be as they have been.  

They had fallen in love as they were, so for one last night, he wanted them to remain as such.

[ x x x ]

When he wakes the following morning, she’s still asleep, tucked beneath his arm.

The night comes back to him in dizzying detail and he’s aroused by the mere memory of what they had shared over the course of the night. But, he untangles himself from her, splashing the cold water from the wash bin onto his face, waking him from the stupor of pleasure he’s in. He tugs on his discarded breeches, but his shirt remains where it lays on the floor, though he picks up her gown and carefully drapes it over the back of the nearest chair. 

Morning call had come and gone, though he supposes it’s early enough yet that they won’t be missed. Especially after the night the rest of the castle surely had- Jon supposes he won’t see nor hear from Tormund for hours yet. So, he stokes the fire in the hearth and thinks he might call for something to break their fast with, if only he can find a maid or servant he could trust with the task. 

As if summoned by his thoughts, a knock sounds on the door, and though he’s hesitant to open it at first, he hears the soft voice calling through the wood. “It’s Brienne, my lord…” So he opens it, revealing to him the woman who’s sworn her service to Sansa, a woman she trusts with her life. “I thought my lady might need this…” She’s extending out her nightgown and robe, which Jon takes with a thankful nod. “Shall I get you something to eat?” Brienne asks next, casting a quick glance across the room to where she sees her lady, sound asleep in this man’s bed. No matter what, she only wishes for her lady’s happiness and safety, and she’s certain in Jon Snow she would find it. Again, Jon nods. Brienne backs out of the room and is gone then, the door closing softly behind her. 

Alone again, Jon turns back to the bed just as she’s waking, stretching beneath the furs, a soft groan escaping her lips, swollen from a long night of his kisses. “Good morning,” he greets as he settles onto the edge of the bed, grinning down at her as she rolls to face him. “Did you sleep well?” She laughs, rolling her eyes as she sits up, clutching the furs to her chest, knowing as well as he did that they had done little sleeping. Very little. “Your sworn shield has come and gone already,” he offers her the nightgown which she accepts, sliding out from the bed so she can tug it on over her head. Sansa turns to him then, a softness to her features, and she nods, thankful for Brienne in a way she could never put to words. 

She sits down beside him, their shoulders brushing, and she glances his way as his hand settles into place against her thigh. “You're going to leave soon, aren’t you?” She asks, knowing that despite it all, there was still yet one battle yet to be won. She thinks of Bran’s cryptic words from a few nights before, that all would end well, but in a way none of them expect. “The South is no place for a Stark man.” 

That’s when he knows, he must tell her the truth. 

So he does, taking hold of her hand as he explains it all. Every last detail he’s been given he gives to her instead, watching as the surprise takes root, followed by something he can only call relief. “It’s as I’ve said, I’m not a Stark, I’m a Targaryen.”

She clings to his hand, shaking her head. “You’re a Stark,” she replies with a smile. “By blood, you are a Stark, even if you aren’t Ned Stark’s son.” The truth of his birth opens up so many more doors for them, beyond what it opens up for them being together. “But you know what this means… That you’re the true heir to the Iron Throne.” He nods, because he knows, even if he doesn’t want it, he knows. He knows that he will have to accept it, if that means keeping her and the North safe. 

“When all of this is over… Truly over… I just want to remain at your side.” He admits softly, thinking to a future without the pomp of a golden crown, wishing it could be his. It could be theirs. “Nothing more, nothing less.” She smiles, leaning in to kiss him, her hand cradling his cheek.

“There’s nothing I want more.”

[ x x x ]

In the end, when she’s chosen as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, she’s not surprised.

Bran had told her the truth of what he foresaw that same day Jon had confessed his birth to her, so when the moment came, she was prepared. Well, mostly. Even as the men around her dropped to a single knee before her, she felt her heart stop, her stomach turning; she supposes nothing could ever prepare her for this moment, not really, anyways. 

Her first move is to seek him out, chained up in the dungeons. 

When the door flies open, he looks up in surprise, even more surprised when it’s she that steps inside. “Unchain him,” she commands and at once a man in Lannister livery springs to do as she bids, unlocking the shackles at both his wrists and ankles. “Leave us,” she says next and the man backs out with a hurried bow, the door falling closed behind him. She’s sinking to the ground before him then, fingers gently tracing along the indents the chains had left behind. “Are you alright?” She asks softly, blue eyes misty as they raise up to meet his.

“What have you done?” He asks quietly and she laughs softly, shaking her head, as if it’s nothing. 

“I am queen,” she responds after a moment, head tilting, red hair cascading over a shoulder. “Of all Seven Kingdoms, though the North will be yours.” Jon blinks, trying to understand the words she’s just spoken. “So I suppose I am Queen of Six Kingdoms,” she continues on with a smile, thinking of the decision that had been made just minutes ago. “You are King in the North, as you always have been.” 

He looks back at her with wide eyes, the realization of what she’s done for him settling in. “Sansa…”

She smiles, touching his hand with a tender shake of her head. “You’ve always saved me, it was my turn to save you,” he doesn’t know how to tell her that she’s saved him already, time and time again. She raises him up, steadying him when he sways ever so slightly, her grip warm on his arm. Every moment has truly led them to this one and she’s thankful for it, despite the pain, despite the suffering that it took to be where they were now. The truth was, she’d go back and do it all again, so long as it led to this moment again. 

“My queen,” he says, the words that until then, have always felt false on his tongue.

When she leans in to kiss him, she knows that this was only the beginning of what was to come, a happy ending they both deserve. 

[navree]

can you explain what you mean by it’s a proxy for jonsa?

Ah sorry, I'm sick and been sleeping badly this week and I meant that the Sara Snow debate was a proxy for the Jonerys/Jonsa ship wars from Game of Thrones.

Again, I've got no skin in the game, but the whole "we hate Sara Snow/we love Sara Snow" seems to be a proxy for the big Jonerys vs. Jonsa ship war that broke out once the original show overtook the books, which has also spilled out into book fandom (even tho none of these people have ever had any interactions in the books at all so it's basically like fighting over wind).

As I've said, I find it baffling, because Jace/Sara seems to be a pretty surface level comparison for Jonerys, what with the Targaryen struggling for the Iron Throne and a Northern bastard (or "bastard" in Jon's case) held in high standing both in Winterfell and within the Stark family meeting and falling in love in the backdrop of a war, just in this case it's a civil war rather than the War for the Dawn we're gonna get in ASOIAF. But the way this stupid ship war shook out was that a lot of the Jonerys people were die hard Targs and a lot of the Jonsa people were diehard Starklings so the Jonerys people hate anything that paints anything Targaryen in a bad light no matter what's going on and the Jonsa people get a bit rabid if you imply that a Starks aren't pure as the driven snow who are always right about everything.

@hollyjollyalicunt also pointed out to me that some might see Jace/Sara as a prototype for because Jace is a bastard of Targaryen blood (like Jon) and Sara is a Stark lady (like Sansa) and that's why people are into it and see it as a "here's how Jonsa can still win" kinda thing. And also Jace is likely going to be one of those characters that becomes the fandom's shared pony who gets shipped with everyone under the sun, cuz the Blacks are more easy to outright stan and the actor who plays him seems like a decent guy, so I imagine we'll be seeing a lot of warring even without the old wounds being brought back into play.

So now we've got to rehash shit all over again because somehow this involves both sore losers and sore winners and I'm over here thinking about how all this was born from a period where the stories were getting bad and Jon was becoming a wooden plank of a character and Sansa was becoming insufferable and Dany was getting schizophrenic writing moment after schizophrenic writing moment and again, not caring about any of the potential HOTD except for when Alys and Aemond come to slay.

[esther-dot]

Okay maybe this is me being a clown but I was reading some of your old post because I'm feeling Jonsa nostalgic and found one about the playlist released by HBO for the final season and how that gave away part of the ending and/or what we thought would be the ending... so I was thinking about the possibility of an epilogue with Jonsa being filmed or an alternative ending with Jonsa+Stark continuity but it didn't make the final version because of D&D? Because the playlist and all the foreshadowing makes no sense with the ending we have 🫠

There was a leak before the final season and major aspects of it were correct, except, it had said that Sansa would marry. I think we all accepted that whoever had leaked it had misinterpreted the coronation scene as a wedding, or even, just figured out the ending and was right about most everything but Sansa's last scene. Sophie said she kept the storyboard of her last scene and that storyboard is of her coronation, so I do not think there was an additional scene.

However, a Jonsa, I'm thinking it was @sanktasansa predicted that the abrupt, unsatisfying GoT ending was a result of HBO leaving room for a sequel, and last year, we did learn that Kit, HBO, and Martin were all discussing that right after s8, so it's possible that we're going to get a satisfying epilogue after all.

As for the songs themselves, I can't find the playlist right now, but here's what I had written before:

Before s8 came out, D&D made a playlist and said, “The answer to the ending is one hundred percent hidden in the playlist choices” (link), and below are some lyrics from “Girl from the North Country,” one of those songs:

Please, see if her hair hangs long If it rolls and flows all down her breast Please, see for me if her hair's hangin' long 'Cause that's the way I remember her best I'm a-wonderin' if she remembers me at all Many times I've often prayed In the darkness of my night In the brightness of my day So, if you're travelin' in the north country fair Where the winds hit heavy on the borderline Remember me to one who lives there She once was a true love of mine

The playlist had a lot of Dark Dany songs, wolf songs, songs about power, really clear stuff if you knew about the Starks being the heroes and Dany being the final baddie. Of course, everyone argued about what was what, but several Jonsas pointed out that this song had to be a Jonsa song (no other girl would fit the lyrics, no other guy was potentially in love with her), but if it was, it meant that Jon would be parted from Sansa in the end. That was said before s8 premiered. Like the promos, the songs painted a more compelling picture of what the final season would be than what was eventually delivered, but I think if we ignore the interviews and think about what made it to our screens, the implication of it all was pretty clear. (link)

So, while I think Jonsa was real at some point, perhaps never truly discarded, simply, unacknowledged, I don't think D&D planned our ideal ending with them both in Winterfell. Martin has talked about how he loves romances that don't have a happy ending though, so that doesn't mean they weren't supposed to get a love story. It just may not be the one we had hoped for.

But of course, many Jonsas are anticipating Jonsa in the sequel/Jon Snow spin-off, so there’s always hope. 💗

[nancythebisexualslutwheeler]

It's been awhile since I had time to check out your blog and it looks like missed a lot! First of, I hope you blocked that person trying to excuse murder because he was hurting. We can understand that and yeah we feel some sympathy for him but come on! They really going to justify it. Justify and understanding are too different things and even if they weren't justifying it your points were valid. Race issue are a thing specially considering the time period ST takes place in. And how the show

Just shrugged it's shoulders at it. Lucas and max deserve better! Everyone deserved better the only thing I liked about s4 was Max's scenes, Lucas, will, and Eddie(and Crissy) and all those clips combined barely takes makes an episode! They took out the core element on what made ST great and made it all about El instead of friendship and I get they were trying to say they grew up but they botch the landing. Omg sorry for the rant! Anyways, I'm sorry to hear that this put a damper in your writing Writing spirit. I was eagerly waiting for your jonsa works but see all this I'll support you going on a break or just releasing ST content, go full on stranger things fix it, au, etc. Ps sorry for the broken ask I kept hitting the word limit --s

oh my GOD. It was drama fest up in here for a while (if you’re new I’m so sorry you had to witness that cause I am crazy like crazy). But yeah- the ST fandom is one of the weirdest and by weirdest I mean probably worst fandoms I’ve been in with the racism, and the literal just acceptance of everything in a show that has been going downhill since season one and I said what the fuck I said 🤷🏽‍♀️ THEN THEN. We got Eddie dying for no reason with his name not cleared then we got my red haired daughter in a fucking COMA!!!!!! Come on now. Do better bro. Do better. But we’re arguing over if in 2022 the Duffer Brothers should have written a scene with a white man holding a gun to a black man? See… people in this fandom don’t critically think.

Ok first why the fuck these gaps so big when I press enter? You picked a good time to check in though, because I just finished a couple other things so Jonsa is next! (To double/triple) check you want kinktober pt 3 first right? Cause that was my priority and then witness protection! If you want something else let me know! Xx T

[aemontargaryen-bloodraven]

Don't you just loooove *sarcasm* how fandom calls Lyanna a spoiled brat who should've done her duty and given Robert a chance but at the same time write theories about Sansa being a runaway bride from Harry Hardyng, comparing him to King Bob, yet Harry being snobby at a party has got nothing on Robert being an alcoholic domestic abuser.

If anyone started the series as a spoiled brat, it was Sansa. Stansas and Jonsas' every argument is hypocritical.

You see, Lyanna might have died before the series started, but she is relevant to the narrative. She is important. So Stansas go around and desperately create Sansa-Lyanna parallels when there are none. There is a reason why Stansas and Martyells all get along. They both desperately want to prove that Joffery and Rhaegar are similar. So they can go around and say see Sansa made a mistake with Joffery just like Lyanna did with Rhaegar. You know the very same Lyanna who knew Robert was never going to change and she saw right through him is compared to a character who did not realize who Joffery was until her father's head was decapitated.

They want to draw parallels, fine, but then they say Lyanna should have done her duty and married Robert but Sansa, no, she should marry for love! 🤦 They want Sansa to have everything without any cost.

Harry Hardying insulting her because she is a 'bastard' daughter and then making fun of a girl's appearance is GRRM telling Sansa, "Look, a male version of you." Still, the author refuses to have her introspect her behavior.

At this point, Harry and Robert have only whoring in common. But Sansa and Cersei have too much in common already. Makes me wonder where are we going with her, if Sansa gets married to him (Harry), has an affair with Sandor (SanSan). It will be a Cersei-Robert-Jaime like situation.

Her role in the War of the Dawn will be to provide food from the Vale. How GRRM does that, remains to be seen. Hope I could answer your question, Anon.

[jackoshadows]

I honestly don’t understand why it’s so unfathomable that a child who learned from Septa Mordane and looked up to her mother Catelyn Stark would treat a bastard like a bastard? Considering that Sansa’s primary and main influences in Winterfell where the Septa and Catelyn and Westerosi ‘polite society’ as it were, it would only be natural that she adopted their views on bastards. Arya being naturally more open minded and curious, an extrovert who liked to befriend everyone and spend time with her father and his men and her brothers and being treated like an outcast by the Septa would obviously repudiate the Septa’s views and gravitate towards Jon.

It’s baffling reading all the mental gymnastics and people twisting themselves into knots trying to justify Sansa’s viewpoint of the bastard she grew up with instead of just accepting that Sansa looked down on bastards and hence did not have much interaction with Jon Snow and Jon knew this and that explains the distance in their relationship.

From reddit:

Sansa treated Jon like a bastard because she cared about honor! Also, Jon and Sansa are going to share Nymeria...What’s happening to Arya in all this? Who the fuck cares, as long as Sansa gets everything that’s important to Arya.

Also on the Jon Snow tag on tumblr:

Remember how Sansa was protecting Arya by siding with Joffrey and lying to everyone about what happened at the Trident? Apparently Sansa was also protecting Arya and Jon by calling him a jealous bastard because he insulted Joffrey and Septa Mordane would have put Jon in prison or executed him or something if she had heard it...

Jonsa/Sansa stans try to protray Sansa as this protective older sister in charge of her younger bratty sister and trying to protect misbehaving Arya from the Septa when the text implies that she liked to tattle on her siblings and get them into trouble. There’s a reason for why we got this little bit:

“And whatever you do...”

Arya knew what was coming next. They said it together.

“Don’t... tell... Sansa!”  - Jon, AGoT

Why is it so hard to accept that Sansa was snobby and classist and looked down on the people lower than her in terms of class? It’s all right there in her POV chapters. We don’t have to make up reasons for why she does stuff. We can read what Sansa thinks!

Sansa knew all about the sorts of people Arya liked to talk to: squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody.  This Mycah was the worst; a butcher’s boy, thirteen and wild, he slept in the meat wagon and smelled of the slaughtering block. Just the sight of him was enough to make Sansa feel sick, but Arya seemed to prefer his company to hers. - Sansa, AGoT

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon.  She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. . - Sansa, AGoT

She thought Jon was a low class bastard. And yes all Jon’s siblings saw him as their bastard half brother, but the difference is that for Sansa this mattered! She gave importance to this fact and it influenced and colored their relationship. She treated him differently compared to how the rest of his siblings treated him and Jon knew why

He missed his true brothers: little Rickon, bright eyes shining as he begged for a sweet; Robb, his rival and best friend and constant companion; Bran, stubborn and curious, always wanting to follow and join in whatever Jon and Robb were doing. He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but “my half brother” since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant. And Arya … he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. - Jon, AGoT

He and Arya qualify their relationship with Sansa as ‘I miss even Sansa’ - like it’s something they find hard to believe because they hardly had a relationship in Jon’s case or had a contentious one in Arya’s case. It’s like when Arya in her TWoW Mercy chapter talked about missing even Izembaro and Bobono.

“Mercy, Mercy, Mercy,” she sang sadly. A foolish, giddy girl she’d been, but good hearted. She would miss her, and she would miss Daena and the Snapper and the rest, even Izembaro and Bobono. - Arya, TWoW

And that’s why Jon’s rare memories of Sansa are impersonal and distant - Sansa brushing Lady’s hair or singing. Except for the one time Sansa condescended to tell him to compliment a girl’s name, there’s nothing there of fond personal interactions - like he thinks of with Robb and Bran and Arya. For example: 

That might mean Lord Eddard would return to Winterfell, and his sisters as well. He might even be allowed to visit them, with Lord Mormont’s permission. It would be good to see Arya’s grin again and to talk with his father.  - Jon, AGoT

His though process here is -  ��Ned coming back to WF with the girls? It will be great to see Arya again and talk to father!’. What about Sansa? Nothing, because they don’t interact. (And for all the Jonsas with their nonsensical pre-canon crush bs - apparently Jon didn’t want to talk to his pre-canon crush after she comes back to Winterfell, he was only interested in seeing Arya’s grin. Imagine that!)

And again, Jon’s attitude towards Sansa treating him as a bastard is basically acceptance. He doesn’t hate her or think angrily of how she was mean to him. His nonexistent relationship with Sansa didn’t affect him -  he has a sister in Arya and brothers in Robb and Bran. It’s Catelyn’s emotional abuse that affects him. That’s why it’s Cat’s cold glares that he remembers when he considers accepting Stannis’ offer of Winterfell.

That’s why all this ‘Jon was not angry at Sansa and therefore Sansa was no different to the rest of his siblings in how she treated him’ makes no sense. The distance between them is evidence enough that she treated him differently compared to the rest of his siblings - as Jon himself points out in his POV.

I would think that he does however know of the bullying experienced by Arya and the pressure on Arya to conform since Arya and Jon were confidants (ex: He consoles her about looking like a bastard), had their own secrets and thought of Sansa as a tattle tale. That’s why he exhibits disdain for girls like Sansa, befriends Sam and Satin and is looking for an Arya in very girl he meets, befriends or loves.

Jon just doesn’t have that emotional connection with Sansa the same way he does with Arya, Robb and Bran. Which is why we get his total indifference towards the Sansa/Tyrion marriage in contrast to his rage at the thought of Arya being forced into marriage and wanting to kill Ramsay and imagining all the scenarios of how Arya would react and worrying about her.

What makes him angry and hurt are when the people he really loves bring up his bastardy - like the memory of Robb telling him he can’t be lord of Winterfell as a bastard really hurts him. That’s why I loved this moment so much:

“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”  - Catelyn, ASoS

Similarly Sansa has no emotional connection to Jon. She is pretending to be a bastard in the Vale and yet straight up admits to forgetting all about Jon. In all her fond nostalgic memories of Winterfell, Jon never, ever makes an appearance. Not once. Like just think about that for a second. They grew up in the same household and he is not mentioned even once. For Sansa, Jon is not connected to Winterfell and home the same way he is for Arya, Bran and Robb. That’s the difference.

For Arya, Needle is her home, Needle is family, Needle is Jon Snow. For Jon, Arya’s home is with him.

Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile. - Arya, AFfC

Bring her home, Mance. I saved your son from Melisandre, and now I am about to save four thousand of your free folk. You owe me this one little girl." - Jon, ADwD

As opposed to:

She had not thought of Jon in ages. - Sansa, AFfC

And that’s why Jon and Arya is an important canon relationship, that’s why readers are invested in them because the author has invested in their emotional connection. That’s why we want to see Jon and Arya reunite - something’s that been set up since the first book: ‘Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle’. That’s not Sansa hate, that’s just the story the books are telling us. On the other hand, undermining Jon’s love for Arya and his book canon relationship with her to somehow shove Sansa in there? - Yeah, that’s Arya hate. And Jon hate. That’s undermining Jon and Arya’s canon relationship to make it all about Sansa.

And yes, Westerosi society is classist and prejudiced and Jon is a bastard and Arya, Robb, Bran all called him their bastard brother. But they also loved him, cared for him, played with him, talked to him, saw him as one of them, were best friends and missed him when he was gone. That’s the pertinent point.

Robb named his bastard brother Jon Snow as Lord of Winterfell, KITN instead of some cousin in the Vale. Bran supports Larence Snow as the new Lord of Hornwood because Larence reminds him of Jon Snow. And we all know what Arya’s thoughts would be about Jon Snow becoming legitimized or becoming Lord of anything.

I don’t know how Sansa would react to Jon being legitimized and made Lord of Winterfell, because we don’t get her thoughts on such political issues, she doesn’t ever think of her bastard brother other than to mention that he’s her bastard half brother and she is still very much pro-status quo on almost all issues.

Sansa gives importance to how things should be instead of questioning whether it’s right for things to be that way. Again, even in the TWoW sample chapter, she doesn’t question the societal prejudice against bastards. Only angry and hurt that she has to pretend to be one and Harry was cruel to call her one.

We can see it as a character flaw or we can see it as the norm for 90% of the characters of Westeros. Jon, Arya, Dany, Brienne etc are outliers and stand out in terms of discussing Westerosi prejudices.

Meanwhile book 3 Sansa thinks this of her dead little sister:

"Sansa had once dreamt of having a sister like Margaery; beautiful and gentle, with all the world's graces at her command. Arya had been entirely unsatisfactory as sisters went..." How can I let my sister marry Joffrey? she thought, and suddenly her eyes were full of tears. - Sansa, ASoS

She cries for Margaery marrying Joffrey but where was her concern when her 9 year old little sister was attacked with a sword by 12 year old Joffrey (who was taller and bigger than Jon). Or when she thinks this in book 5:

She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still … with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again - Sansa, AGoT

It doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things that Arya is not up to Sansa’s standards of beauty or that Jon is only her bastard half brother. It shouldn’t matter! At the end of the day they are family and are probably the only people out there who care for her and would help her. But it matters for her - and that’s who Sansa is as a character, it’s her defining character feature. The lessons her Septa and mother drilled into her. Propriety and courtesy and decorum and following societal norms and looking pretty.

Now, Sansa is also changing and growing as a character - GRRM is giving her an arc where she is finally able to see past pretty faces, understand the importance of family, and wants to see Jon again now that she too is a bastard like him and all her real brothers are dead.

But Sansa’s adherence to Westerosi norms is the status quo for the world she lives in. So why all the mental gymnastics, the twisting of story and characterization, the most absurd justifications for Sansa treating a bastard like a bastard?

Can’t Sansa stans like her if she doesn’t have a good relationship with Jon and Arya? She has good relationships with Bran, Ned, Cat, Rickon, Robb, is that not enough? She has friends in Jeyne Poole and Myranda Royce. Why not celebrate the positive relationships she does have instead of rewriting her canon relationships with Jon and Arya in the books.

This is the fundamental problem with the Sansa stan fandom. Can’t it just be that Sansa shares her mother’s and her Septa’s way of thinking with respect to bastardy as in everything else? That she is conformist like 90% of Westeros.

It’s not a stretch that someone who believes that songs about knights and valiant princes are true also believes that bastards are treacherous because they are born of lust - something her grand uncle the Blackfish says of Jon Snow despite never having met or known him. I don’t see people making excuses for the Blackfish.

If one has to come up with these farcical justifications in order to like Sansa, then one doesn’t really like Sansa Stark. It’s as simple as that. One only likes a made up, absurd fanon version and GRRM would laugh his head off if he read some of the nonsense on here.

[cellsshapedlikestars]

Kit Harrington 🤝 Jensen Ackles

Spending actual money to produce their own fan fictions after their characters get terrible endings.

As someone in both got and spn fandoms, this is just weird. If someone “et tu brute”s Kit I will literally die laughing. I really hope Jon insists that Ghost gets more screen time now that they don’t have 3 dragons and a bunch of wights to cgi.

I have not watched spn since around season 6, but I have heard about what's going on through tumblr. I'm less surprised on that front, 1 - because spn became clownery a long time ago, and 2 - it's the CW.

But I'm also not totally surprised that HBO is trying to go the Star Wars & Marvel route and just pump out as much media for an IP as possible to make as much money as possible.

I think Kit cares and if GRRM is involved, I hope that means a good show, but also, I don't know HOW Kit interprets his character and we don't know HOW involved GRRM will be.

(my ranting about this spinoff got quite long, so under a cut. this is genuinely a rant about the show, you've been warned)

I also am quite sure we won't get Jonsa, but that's my personal opinion and I know a lot of people are really hoping for it. And if it happens, amazing! I just... this show genuinely broke me. I have no hope that I will ever be happy with anything GOT again. Not a spinoff or prequel, I don't think the books will ever come out... I think the best we'll ever get is an outline of what would have happened after GRRM dies.

What I would want out of the show is for Sophie and Maisie to return. Sophie because literally how could you do a Jon show without her? Sansa is the QitN. Like unless Jon just hops on a boat and fucks off to Essos, how does he not encounter her? Obviously Bran and Arya are easier to explain away if they don't show up, just due to distance, but I was so disappointed with how little screentime Arya and Jon got together. Of all the siblings, they had the best relationship in the beginning and then the reunion was just... nothing. Honestly same with Sansa & Arya, because the chance we got to see them be badasses together was ruined by making it look like they were fighting for a whole season. So dumb. How amazing would it have been if we could have seen Sansa & Arya working together to fuck with Baelish?? But once again, D&D needed everything to be a SHOCKING TWIST, so we didn't.

And yes. 100% more Ghost screentime. It is actually unreal to me how much the dragon/D stuff took over. Nearly every single thing that happened with the Starks in the last 2 seasons were in service of the D plotline, and trying to hide that she was a villain for as long as possible. Bran and Arya barely got screentime, Sansa was presented as bitchy and rude around D to hide the fact that she was actually right & D was the villain, and Jon got turned into one of those pull string dolls that can only repeat the same 3 lines over and over again with no real personality.

(this also applies to Tyrion, who's character was also ruined the minute he got sucked into the D vortex)

Also, for the news that EC will not be returning... I really hope that's true and not just some dumb "no, Jon Snow is really dead, we promise uwu" bullshit. As someone else said (I think @esther-dot) they really screwed with her by not letting her know Dany's end for so long (but then I also think... girl, didn't they tell you to study Hitler speeches to prepare? How did that not clue her in? They must have gaslit her HARD, which makes me feel so bad for her.)

ANYWAY. This got so off topic. I just genuinely, 3 years later, cannot get over how bad the show ended and how completely they ruined every character and plotline. And maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I have no faith this spinoff will do anything to fix it. This show truly and utterly has ruined me & the way I consume/enjoy media.

All that being said, I will watch it, and I will let Jon Snow absolutely destroy me again.