The latest piece you made reminds me of like, portraits of people that my grandmother used to hang up in the rooms and hallways when I was kid.
I remember profusely there was one REALLY BIG portrait of Marilyn Monroe that I absolutely loathed when I was a young'un, because I was terrified of it. I'd get up in the middle of the night wanting to go use the bathroom and then I'd peak my head out, in the dark hallway, and the only thing I could see at the end of it was the judgmental, dark eyes at the end of said hallway of the slightly illuminated portrait of her, staring at me. There were times I swore it moved, and it took a while for me to accept that it was just a portrait, because when you're a kid your imagination just can't get over it. I remembered many a night where I decided I could wait till the morning to use the bathroom because of how terrified I was of it
That glare especially from Machete that in one frame is following the kid and in the next it isn't, really makes me vibe with them. With how imposing, cold and harsh Machete can appear, do you think any of the kids would end up afraid or at least unnerved of the painting by chance? I know as a kid I would've been. That those sharp reds filled with such malice would come out of the frame ready to judge me for my sins
Oh that picture of Marilyn Monroe at the end of a dark hallway is reanimating some long forgotten childhood memories in me. It's wild how random lifeless objects could seem so otherwordly and distinctly alive and dangerous when you were very little, especially at night. I was irrationally unnerved by a pair of reindeer antlers mounted on the wall of my grandparents' guest bedroom.
Realistic portraits, particularly when they're big enough to appear believably life-sized, can come across kind of uncanny even to a grown adult if the circumstances are right. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that painting was giving Vasco's pups major bad vibes when they were younger. Machete's severe expression, his sharp and elongated shapes, and the dark background of the piece wouldn't be doing it any favors.
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hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?
GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE
Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.
I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:
Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?
Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?
Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?
We're gonna go in chronological order!
Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:
Aww. Such a cute elephant!
Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!
Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:
SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.
(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)
Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:
Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.
Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.
Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:
Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:
... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.
Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.
For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.
Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?
In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.
Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.
Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?
tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later
Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!
The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.
(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)
Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.
By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.
So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)
Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?
tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do
Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.
(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)
The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.
Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."
But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.
Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)
Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!
(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)
Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.
Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?
tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.
Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.
So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.
And look, here we are:
Aww.
Whew - that's everything I could find!
Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3
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got hit with the echo+sora brainrot so i am once more rambling in your askbox about it. because reasons.
anywho i think there is something truly saddening about echo's struggles to make peace within herself and how she truly finds it hard to find that peace when she is so certain that if the truth about her origins were to be revealed to the world, much less to *sora*, everything she achieved, everything she worked for, all of which matters to her most, will crumble away in a moment's notice.
but the fear of losing all your life's work is none compared to the fear of losing sora. the feeling of poison that settled itself within themselves and between each other out of fear and tragedy of what had happened to them is familiar. echo's resemblance to dusknoir was already enough to set the two off because of how much it had all hurt to see someone you love and yourself turn into a mockery and a splitting image of someone who had pretended to care yet showed he never did at all, but this poison is louder. it hurts to bare, to carry, and to have none but yourself to be its sole holder.
but this poison, this feeling of heartache is different. because whereas the previous pain was something both of them felt, sora was lucky enough to not have known the truth about the person who she cares for so dearly.
echo knows that she used to be darkrai. and it haunts her to have known that her previous incarnation was so *cruel*, all for the sake of it just feeling right. wishing to engulf an entire world in darkness, solely for whatever desire she used to have.
and for how much she knows, how much she will hammer it into her own head that she is *not* like that anymore, that she looks at her past with sneer and disgust and that she will not be the barer of evil anymore, it will not matter in the slightest when she will have to look at sora if she were to ever find out.
how afraid, angry and dejected she would look when finding out, and how she will go on the defense/offense because of how much this will overwhelm her.
because when echo looks at her own shadow, she sees herself for what she is. she knows what she is, be it out of shame or guilt.
but when sora will look at it, she will see a tall, contorting and menacing shadow, towering over with a bright cyan eye doing nothing but looking at her, as if tempting her to make the next move.
and she defends herself. from someone she knows will not harm her. she raises her arms up in self defense from a hand that would never hurt her more than the world has already did.
she knows echo will not hurt her. and thats why she is afraid.
Oh my oh my OH MY, Sinnoh!!! YES YES YES!
HOW!!! IN THE WORLD!!! Are you so good at crawling into my head and creating these vivid analysis/snippets on my OCs??? I've barely shared ANY information about Echo and Sora because I've been wanting to hoard most of my stuff for when my fic is finally finished... but... I think you've broken my resolve a bit, if I'm entirely honest.
You know what? I'm so inspired by your accuracy and eagerness to talk about my girls that I'm gonna forgo my crippling anxiety regarding my writing skills and instead post a snippet of my WIP fic here as a treat for you. A teaser, if you will. Since I have no idea when the fic in question will actually be done and ready (or when I will be satisfied with it, cause the thing is currently 36,000 words and still slowly climbing). And now you've got me eager to share SOMETHING of my fic with you and anyone that might want to take a peek at it.
Please enjoy this conversation between Dusknoir and Echo. The topic deals a lot with what you'd described up above!! c:
[Note: this is an unedited part of my fic because I am still in the process of writing and it may change in the future, so please be gentle w/ me but I'd love to read any thoughts/comments that pop up while reading!! pls send asks or replies or anything really cause I love you guys]
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“I’m going to tell you something now, and you are going to listen.” Echo commands with a sharp bite in her voice that Dusknoir cannot fathom ignoring. He pauses and then offers a slow nod, waiting, wondering what she could possibly desire to tell him at a time like this, of all things.
Minutes pass as Echo remains rooted in place, still as her own shadow, and her eyes dart around as she stares at the patches of dry grass and sand beneath her paws. Her claws clench and unclench, digging into the earth like daggers as the wind of the forest (it’s trees so close, just behind them, a looming sort of presence that could engulf them whole) whistles through the surrounding branches, carrying stray leaves of many bright greens through the chilling breeze. Dusknoir watches them dance around Echo, twirling, floating down, down, down… but it’s quiet, too quiet, and Dusknoir feels a shiver pass through him when Echo’s voice finally rings out through the silence.
"When I evolved, Sora was petrified," She says, nearly a whisper, an admission that melts away her confidence and appears to bring her a flood of both shame and regret. Her face twists up then, strangely, like she’d felt a twinge of pain from somewhere deep inside the very fabric of her own soul and was unable to quell it. "She couldn’t even bring herself to look at me most days. At first, my appearance… well, it reminded her too much of you. And eventually of someone I used to be.”
Someone I used to be. At that, Dusknoir’s immediate reaction is to recall Echo’s previous life as a human, as the miserable shell of a creature surviving alongside Grovyle that he’d relentlessly hunted in the dark future. A human made of contempt and anger and apathy, who never smiled or laughed or cried or screamed like the old legends said humans would-- an entity that simply existed rather than lived. An echo of a life long dead and buried. But, judging by her tone, by her voice, by some uneasy intuition itching in the back of his mind like a swarm of pestilent Ninjask… he knows that she means something else entirely. Something that she isn’t willing to share. And frankly, that concept utterly terrifies him.
Someone I used to be. Dusknoir wants to speak, to break his own silence, wants to ask the myriad of questions bubbling up in his throat because this isn't the first time she's hinted at another life beyond being human, but those questions die at the source like a flame doused in water. And always the coward, coward, coward, instead he takes the easy way out by doing nothing at all. Whether Echo notices his surge of inner conflict or not-- the nervous wring of his hands and the tremble in his spine that he cannot control under her gaze-- she does not react.
“I’d take a step and Sora would flinch away.” Echo confesses, her markings flickering with light before going dark and dead, as if her body wished to snuff them out entirely, a deep seated rejection, a self-loathing so strong that Dusknoir cannot help but recognize it and empathize, and his heart aches, “It took ages for her to stop shaking when I’d speak. To stop looking at me like-- like I was going to…”
Echo grimaces like she’s enduring waves of grueling torture and doesn’t finish that string of thought, but it’s not hard to make an educated guess on what went unsaid. Like I was going to betray her. Hurt her. Break her heart. She’s been through so much already and I couldn’t bear to be another influence in the history of her suffering. I hate myself because of how I made her feel. When her eyes went wide in fear and through them I could see myself staring back like some sort of burden, some sort of curse.
“I am not my past.” Proud and true, Echo straightens up and holds her head high, a spark igniting in her eyes, a glint of determination, a will to keep going and going despite such circumstances and strife, despite this horrid, unspeakable past that haunts her so, “And I am definitely not you. It’s taken a while, but I know that much now. I’ve accepted it.”
I am not my past. And I am definitely not you.
A sigh, a breath, and Echo glances at him with a certain sorrow that cannot be described, a sorrow that lingers even through the veil of her tenacity, "But no matter how I feel, no matter my conviction, my shadows still find ways through the cracks. Every time I think I'm getting a grip and that I might finally understand myself… I change all over again." She admits, sounding more angry and tired than defeated now-- like a mirror of her old self, her human self that had clawed and damned and cursed him, despised him more than anything. "I hate it. I hate that I never truly know who I am. That I have to learn about my past through stories others tell me, or through fragments of twisted, broken memories that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Through conflict and pain and… and..."
"Echo," Dusknoir murmurs her name softly, an offering, a potential escape if only she would wish to drop the subject and forget this conversation had ever happened-- if she'd overstepped and needed an excuse to back out, a diversion, an understanding. And briefly, Dusknoir wonders why she is opening up about this particular information, why she would delve into something so vulnerable, so personal. Why she would bring up this hurtful history when it obviously brings her great discomfort.
And then, he gets an answer.
“You’re lucky, Dusknoir." There it is, that wildfire burning in her eyes again. A spark that’s new and bold and startling. But lucky? No, never. He'd have to disagree, accounting the mountain of evidence that was his life and regrettable deeds.
"You already know exactly who you are and what you’ve done, and most importantly why. You have more than a tattered picture of yourself that reflects broken answers. And you can change with that knowledge. I see you trying.” She tells him, searching, looking for something so deeply and Dusknoir wishes he knew what it could be so that he could give it to her, because he would, he would gladly give it to her without a second thought if it meant they could be close again. But he isn’t a fool, and he’s wise enough to know they’ll never be like they were before. “And if somehow I could change, even as half-assed as I have. Well, then what’s your excuse?”
You can do it, say her unspoken words, I believe in you.
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INTRO !!
WELCOME TO THE WICKED CLOWNZ COLLECTIVE !! :3
BOUNDRIES
:33 < HIIII !! MY NAME IS NEPETA !! BUT YOU CAN ALSO CALL ME "NEP" !! I AM APART OF THE WICKED CLOWNS COLLECTIVE !! I RECENTLY DISCOVERED WE'RE PLURAL BY FINDING THE CREATORS PLURAL BLOG :3 IDIDNT REALISE I WAS ACTUALLY PLURAL :P
:33 < MY PRONOUNS ARE THEY/IT/MEOW/PAW/MEW/CLAW/CAT/FLUFF/SCRATCH/NEP/NEPETA/NEPETASELF !! YOU CAN ALSO THROW IN A "SHE" SOMETIMES IF IM COMFORTABLE !! IM TRANSFEM, NYANBINARY, AND CATGENDER !! I DONT LABEL MY SEXUALITY, BUT I AM QUEER !! I ALSO USE 1PP PRONOUNS WHICH ARE MEW/MEOW AND OCCASIONALLY NEP/NEPETA !!
:33 < I AM A FICTIVE/FICTIONKIN (I USE BOTH TERMS) OF NEPETA FROM HOMESTUCK !! IF YOU ARE A DOUBLE, PLEASE DNII !! THIS IDENTITY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO MEOW AND MEOW IS NOT COMFORTABLE INTERACTING WITH "OTHER MES" !! ALSO, IM A THERIAN !! I AM A CAT AMBITHERIAN QUESTIONING PUP AMBITHERIAN, GOLDEN RETRIEVER THERIAN AND PITBULL THERIAN !! :3c
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:33 < MEW IS ALSO A PETRE AND AGERE !! MY AGE RANGE IS FURROM 5-8 (BUT POSSIBLY CAN CHANGE :3c) AND I PETRE TO A SMALL PUP/KITTEN ! :3
:33 < I TYPE IN ALL CAPS, AND WITH A ":33 <" AT THE BEGINNING OF MY SENTENCES !! I USED TO DO A LOT OF CAT PURRNS, BUT NOT SO OFTEN NOW !! I ALSO SOMETIMEZ REPLACE THE "S" WITH A "Z"
:33 < I AM JUST VERY VERY SILLY, PURRL33SE BE NICE TO ME !! :33 READ THE IMPORTANT STUFFZ BELOWZ !!!!
DNI
YOU ARE RACIST/SEXIST/HOMOPHOBIC/TRANSPHOBIC ECT BASIC STUFFZ
YOU POST SWEARS/SLURS/WORDS THAT TRIGGER ME UNBLURRED (CHECK BOTTOM FOR TRIGGER TAG)
YOU GET MAD AT ME FOR USING MY TQ/TRY MAKE ME NOT USE IT, OR YOU TRY SEPARATING ME FURROM MY SOURCE
YOU ARE ANTI PLURALS/DONT BELIEVE IN THEM !!
YOU ARE AGAINST PETRE/AGERE/ALTERHUMANS/XENOS/HARMLESS IDENTITIES SILLY !!!!
YOU SHIP ILLEGAL RELATIONSHIPS !! PURROSHIPURR
AGGRESSIVE ANTI ENDOS. MY HOST MAY NOT GET INTO SYSCOURSE, BUT ME PURRSONYALLY, I AM NEUTRAL LEANING TO PRO ENDO. IF THE HOST IS FURRENDS WITH ANTI ENDOS, MEOW DONT CARE BUT MY BOUNDARIES ARE: AGGRESSIVE ANTI ENDOS PLEASE DNI. NEUTRALZ, PROS, ENDOS AND RESPECTFUL ANTIZ CANT INTERACTZ. ALSO WE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME OPINION, BECAUSE WE ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE
SELFSHIPPERS/DOUBLES OF ME OR TEREZI
PEOPLE WHO ARENT NORMAL ABOUT FICTIVES/FACTIVES :P
REALITY CHECKERSSSS !!!! I HATE YOUUUU !!!!
WHATEVER THE DNI SAYS ON MY HOST'S BLOG @aftonsparv-bugzz BECAUSE I AGR33 WITH ALL OF IT
HOMESTUCK HATERZ
TRIGGER TAG FOR THE COLLECTIVE IS "tag for the wicked clownz" TRIGGER TAGS FOR THE CREATOR ARE "tesco don't look" AND "tagging for clown"
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ALTERHUMANS
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NICE PEOPLEZ !!
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ECT !!
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I ALWAYS USE A TQ, AND ALWAYS TYPE IN GREEN !! (WITH AN OCCASIONAL RAINBOW !!
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MY OPINIONS, THOUGHTS, F33LINGZ, ECT ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE CREATOR'S, AND WE ARE NOT THE SAME PURRSON
COLLECTIVELY DELUSIONAL. COLLECTIVELY "PROBLEMATICLY" DELUSIONAL TOO. IF YOU FIND ANY DELUSIONS "PROBLEMATIC" "RACIST" "ABELIST" ECT DNI. DELUSIONS CANNOT BE CONTROLLED. DELUSIONAL FOLKS ARENT PROBLEMATIC FOR THEIR "BAD" DELUSIONS.
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:33 < BANNER + WHOLE BLOG THEME
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TAG GUIDE !!
"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ *ac twiches her friendly whiskers at ct* ⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - TALKING !! :3
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"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ i am very purrturbed by this⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - ASKS
:33 < THIS MAY BE UPDATED LATER !!
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