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mistwhisperexpress · 4 months

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I'm not Jewish myself but I do belong to a couple of minority demographics that receive denigration for one reason or another, along with people trying to speak for me.

My only real advice is that there comes a point where it's no longer "defending the oppressed" and more infantilization. There is such a thing as being too sensitive. This is a kid's game, not propaganda meant to encourage hatred. Same as any other demographic, Jewish people can speak on their own behalf. They don't need others' help, they only need a listening ear. To do anything else is risking spoiling the fun for everyone including those you're trying to speak for.

Also "goblin" as far as I've seen is as much an umbrella term as anything else. Jewish people don't hold a cultural copyright on financial greed and hooked noses. (may I direct you to dragons and stereotypical witches respectively) I could probably name a dozen other fairy tale and mythological creatures that have such traits.

Suggesting that SSO's new little green goblin (Grinch? Norman Osborn?) is a caricature of Jewish people makes as much sense as saying the orcs in Tolkien's legendarium represent black people or that the white walkers from ASOIAF represent white people, aka little to no sense once you look past the surface. The comparison of Jewish people and goblins alone could be deemed borderline antisemitic in itself. It's misguided, but forgivable.

Worry more about enjoying the game and less about whether SSO is offending a group who are more than capable of defending themselves in a kid's game. ❤️

Okay I don’t blame you for assuming I’m not Jewish because apparently I haven’t mentioned that here yet even though I (mis)remembered I had, but this still feels really weird to send? Telling someone who’s not part of a minority to not speak for them is absolutely okay, the job of people outside a minority is to raise up their voices, not add their own, so I have no issue with that aspect and I am genuinely sorry that’s been done to you, but why are you, someone who by your own words isn’t Jewish, speaking on if goblins antisemitic or not at all? You are speaking for/over us there, and you would be even if I wasn’t Jewish.

I am Jewish, and obviously while we aren’t a monolith, no group of people is, I personally find this depiction of goblins (green and greedy/thief) antisemitic, and with much of the world going mask off with their antisemitism right now I’m not as open to giving benefits of the doubt as I used to be. I do believe this was a mistake on SSO’s part and not intentional as I said in a reblog, but that doesn’t make it any less harmful or antisemitic.

I have done quite a bit of research into the history of goblins and when they began to be used as an antisemitic caricature (as early as the 1800s thanks to the Goblin Market poem, which is just classic blood libel) because I make dice as a job and I want to enjoy D&D without antisemitism and the whole dice goblin thing, and there is a very large connection. This isn't unfounded.

You’re right in that goblins are a bit of an umbrella term, they are, which is why it’s important to let the antisemitic version of them die. You can have goblins that are just mischievous, not green, big nosed, greedy, sneaky, and untrustworthy. It’s really easy to not have antisemitic goblins, but unfortunately the antisemitic version is a mainstream staple and that doesn’t just go away overnight.

If you apply harmful stereotypes to anything, even if it was completely harmless before, you’re going to get a harmful caricature. That’s what happened to goblins, and that’s what SSO did with the Snow Goblins. They took the popular depiction which is the antisemitic version, and applied it to the game without a thought because it’s been normalized to the point most people don’t even consider it may have less than great origins. Like Rapunzel and Hansel and Gretel. They’re so normal the vast majority of people don’t even realize they were created for antisemitic reasons. Antisemitism is sneakily within a lot of things. You don’t start recognizing it until you become familiar with the tropes and stereotypes.

I’m also going to bet if they’re European in origin, the “dozen other fairy tale and mythological creatures that have such traits” you could name also had that done to them if they weren’t antisemitic to begin with. And since you mentioned them, it’s also what was done to the stereotypical version of witches, which is antisemitic and has a very long history of such going back to accused women who were burned being forced to wear Jewish clothing of the time as further humiliation. It’s also where the classic pointy hat comes from, since a pointy cone hat was what we were forced to wear to signify we were Jewish. Witches actually share a lot with goblins in antisemitic traits and SSO also needs to address Pi hitting all but the green skin.

You clearly know a little about the issue, as you brought up The Nose when I didn't, but you also don't know nearly enough to speak about this at all as evidenced by you not knowing the antisemitic history regarding witches, so please don't. And I never said they were a Jewish caricature, I said they were antisemitic, there's a difference. A Jewish caricature is the happy merchant meme.

What we're also not going to do is the whole 'you're the antisemitic one for seeing Jewish people in goblins' thing. That has and always will be an utterly bullshit dismissive argument. The whole point of this kind of caricature is to normalize the stereotypes so when they're actually applied to people you don't blink an eye, like how very few goyim blinked an eye at Mother Gothel in Tangled. I'm currently sick so I really don't have all the smart brain power to go into that right now and I hope someone else can. It's not antisemitic to notice when antisemitic caricatures have been applied to something. That's a very good thing to notice actually, and I want more goyim to start noticing that.

So it does actually make more sense than someone saying those things (which I don't think I've ever seen someone argue??), which I'll get into under the cut to clear up any confusion about how SSO's Snow Goblins tie into the antisemitic depictions, since a couple people were confused in my initial post.

And I am worrying more about enjoying the game; that's the whole reason I brought this up, because I'd like to enjoy a game that's been with me for more than half my life and means a lot to me, and this is preventing me from fully doing that.

Again, I am genuinely sorry people have spoken over and for you. That is wrong and not at all okay. And I'm sorry if I misread the tone of your ask.

Okay !! Education with Mandy time. This has been a long post but I hope you'll all stick with me for just a little longer.

And real quick before we get into the specifics, I want to mention that Christmas time is one of the times where you want to be especially careful about things like this, given the history present with characters like Scrooge.

So for those who don't know what the Snow Goblin is, this is the creature in question:

The typical antisemitic goblin is green, greedy, big nosed, and some flavor or sneaky and untrustworthy.

The Snow Goblin quite obviously hits on the green. If this creature looked like a normal capran and was named something like Snow Imp or Mischievous Capran, there would be no issue. Because bastardy little guys stealing things on it's own isn't an antisemitic stereotype. It's when there's multiple things that are the problem, like green skin, or in this case fur, and calling them something with a very large history of antisemitism when combined with those very traits.

The whole schtick of this little guy is they steal your snowflakes if you don't catch them in time, so it also hits on the greedy and untrustworthy tropes. If the Snow Goblin looked like a normal capran but was still called a goblin, there would still be an issue because the antisemitic goblin isn't just green, it's also bastard of greedy kinds, like a thief not out of necessity but of pleasure. "Thief" isn't directly an antisemitic stereotype, but it's very much there as an undercurrent. The "Jewish people are unfairly taking my money!" implication from The Middle Ages when the stereotype began, when money lender was pretty much the only job we were allowed to have.

If the Snow Goblin was called something else but was still green, I wouldn't say its directly antisemitic, but I would side eye it and not feel comfortable. It's kinda like the Grinch, ignoring the fact Dr. Seuss may or may not have been Jewish depending on who you ask because there's conflicting information. It's not directly anything bad, but I'm going to be a little wary of the intention and engage with it extra carefully.

Its about the combination.

I can't tell you exactly when the mainstream antisemitic goblin came together, because I don't know and it's really hard to find information on that, but it's there, and you can't deny that. I don't necessarily blame SSO for contributing to it's perpetuation, because you don't think to look deeper into something when you have no reason to think it's harmful, but I do hope they change it. And hire some Jewish sensitivity readers because this wouldn't have happened with more Jewish people around to catch it, and with witches being a focus of the story now I am admittedly a little nervous about how that'll be handled.

Also, this is all unintentionally made worse by use of the capran model, because it also gets to hit on the whole fun we're in league with the devil thing and the Jewish people have horns thing. I don't know when exactly those started either (drawings of us with "devil features" have been around a long time), but I know the we have horns one was popularized when Michelangelo decided to give his sculpture of Moses horns, because that's what we look like apparently. There are still people who genuinely believe we have horns. I feel robbed. Horns a super cool, I want horns. Where are my horns?

And before someone says it, yes this is a lot of words for something low stakes in a kids game. There are a lot of more important things right now. But that's exactly why it's mattering to me right now. I don't want to be silent about antisemitism while it's on the rise, but I don't know enough about the current aspects of that to speak on it. I do however know a lot about how it applies to fantasy, and I have had about three work in progress essays about the goblin issue to prepare for this.

And also before someone says it, Snow Gremlin isn't exactly an acceptable new name either. It's basically Snow Goblin 2.0. Gremlins aren't goblins (though they have become a bit synonymous and interchangeable), but they were popularized by the massive and proud antisemite Roald Dahl, and I have a hard time believing he didn't put any of those beliefs into them.

#star stable #star stable online #sso #sso critical #long post #antisemitism #jumblr #<- hoping some jumblr peeps can help explain why this ask feels so :/ to me #also side note but who's fun am i spoiling #the snow goblin's mechanic is horribly unfun even without this #it's just punishing #no essence of enjoyment in sight because there's a time limit that's really freaking short #and i know i essentially repeat myself a lot i am nothing if not a redundant girlie <3 lady redundant woman in world girl gets me

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kenmaiii · 1 year

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MOOVEEE IM CURIOUS!! please do tell why you think each of the boys would flop in dating I'd love to hear an indepth! like as a huge levi fan I'm extremely patient with him as is because same hat with stuff he goes and struggles through but just know I have to put my foot down because he'll eventually be too much and won't accept we definitely got some unhealthy dynamic going on down the line

YOU'VE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE ANON. kind of a coin toss here tho cuz I think every character in any property should have flaws to some degree! Even if they are a 'perfect' character bcuz no one can actually be entirely 'perfect', but its like. a double edged sword with OM cuz thats either admitting that the writers kind of did their thing for once OR is it just that they completely fumbled in approaching these flaws properly

and reminder this is not me saying they wouldnt have ANY good dateable qualities at all, just pointing out why you'd look at one of them and think Hm. This Is Kinda. Not As Fun As I Wouldve Thought.

BUT YEA. WHY I THINK CHARACTERS WOULD FLOP AT DATING U

LUCIFER: oh boy where do i start. I dont know about the rest of you but I fear that this old man is way TOO strict and domineering most of the time. (not always.................. of course. he has a silly side for sure but good lord...) 😒 like I am nawt trying to date a prison warden can you ease up off me a bit sir... I know the game has taken more care to editing his dialogue in a respectful way but my gawd does this guy demand things from you so much. Like VERY demanding in not tolerating certain things from you, literally it's his way or the highway and you have GOT to do it right too or else. he's like that with everyone sure but with the MC? dating? yeesh! I think if you are the type that doesn't like being told what to do or being talked over you'd get annoyed with him very quickly.

Like the writers unfortunately nailed having someone be so prideful to such blazing smoldering degrees that it ended up overshadowing a lot of his good parts. Getting him to admit things/wrongdoings is so very hard. He's VERY emotionally constipated as hell on top of that. I know he can actually set aside the time to say things to you while being genuine. occasionally. rarely. but he's way more likely to mainly ONLY be open while DRUNK. and while i think its kind of cute as a trait somewhat, are YOU willing to wait for him to be extremely real mainly when he's too drunk to possibly remember every time.

Speaking of getting drunk though he's also like- ridiculously horny a lot which?F?DSf is a bonus if you like that but it can come across as him being overly pushy in many many cases. but once again i can acknowledge the writers/translators have been better at adding in clear consent to choices. 👍🏿 Another thing is that you'd have to deal with him always being busy and overworking himself. and constantly. And as someone that also has very questionable sleeping/eating/overworking habits you are going to have a very hard time getting through to him about this bcuz he puts way too much responsibility on himself AND he has a tendency to forget that he hasnt slept/eaten. It would be a very nasty combo if youre ALSO like that (even if he would scold you for doing the same and take care of you)

Also he cares about them sure but he's most definitely always gonna be complaining about his brothers and Diavolo to you constantly. Are you ready to sit through that. More than usual that is.

Speaking of the brothers being a package deal they will most definitely interrupt any peace and quiet you and the eldest both rarely get, like the mood will just nawt be right im sorry.

Oh and if youre not a dog person I cannot imagine how you are even going to tackle time with him and a giant three-headed demon dog bcuz that would also have to be your baby by default. Walks must be absolutely something! Like I love dogs but really think about it. An actual life-sized Clifford. But a demon dog. I do not have the strength to deal with regularly sized dogs even

MAMMON: he was one of the slightly higher ones on that 'worst to date' poll (nowhere near Luci or Belphie ofc), but it was only people listing about money problems or going 'Ha. imagine sharing a bank account with that guy. it'd be drained so fast'. And yea sure I hear that. u-u All that guy really needs is someone to properly manage and limit his funds and advise him really (but I mentioned before that Mammon shouldnt just be limited to money or material valuable like the writers always do. His fatal flaw is his greed! and greed can encompass many things not just material (There's power, love, friendships, food etc).

His flop when dating you, I would think is being too overprotective and possessive of your time. As much as I love him he DOES overstep quite a bit with the 'being your first'. Sometimes he simply does not consider YOUR feelings on situations and schemes first. Though that's a flaw of most of the people in the devildom have by law of the Main Character Curse™. You must be put into situations I get that -w- But like I said yea he really does have a really big problem with possessiveness and always wanting your time and attention. Which- could get tiring if you're not in the frame of mind to deal with clinginess or possessiveness! Because I totally get that it's a lot for some people.

Harking back to the money thing though I genuinely dont think it'd actually be a SUPER DUPER MAJOR problem with your relationship? He's shown to be quite considerate on that aspect when it really comes down to it. Like he HAS worked a couple extra shifts at a job in canon just to save up and buy gifts before. And he's literally a highly sought after model! And surprisingly good at math when he has the opportunity (though it def still has to relate to him positively $$$) so he could stack his dough pretty normally. He just needs someone to keep an eye on his funds + other sources to balance out his Greed more! 😅

Somehow he manages to be both capable and completely hopeless also which is very impressive! You would have to help him out with a lot of things since he IS used to being spoiled, in a way. He does get treated very poorly by a lot of the characters BUT he clearly still has very lavish tastes and was both a very high-ranking angel AND demon so combined with greed he's used to the good stuff (thus me thinking he's fairly spoiled still- so he will expect a lot of you lowkey) Also I know I said he's well capable of finding his own source of income but he IS canonically bad at saving... and added with the thing above ^ well... If you've watched Abbott Elementary at all he WILL be the Tariq to your Janine, sorry!

TBH.. I cant really think of any other flaws atm besides over-asserting himself to your time and attention

LEVI: grabbing you by the shoulders- THATS IT THATS EXACTLY WHY ANON!!!! his flopping is mainly coming from the fact that he always puts himself down so very much!!! his head is literally his biggest enemy! its natural for people to have insecurities or doubts about things. and that can be especially heightened in relationships; whether platonic or romantic! but oh mein gottness does that guy put himself down so much.

I also struggle with the same things (believe it or not Levi was my wife for a good while like he used to make me teehee giggle like crazy so i get it i relate heavily). But at some point you ARE going to feel a bit drained or tired constantly hearing negative things about someone you care about and love! Supporting and providing reassurance or denying the negative stuff is a given, and can go on for as long as time would permit! But at some point you have got to start believing in yourself a little more and serve cuntress or something, Levi!

If levi was able to work on believing himself more and being more confident (which he has shown himself to do in quite a few cases) I think it can flop a little less!

His gaming time might cut quite a bit into your romantic time as well, especially if youre not the type thats super into gaming. Also considering that this is definitely his first real relationship (compared to the others) and not an ingame one I feel like there would need to be a serious chat at some point over ideals and expectations that he's picked up in game. Or how things possibly work irl. I must be honest, while it is cute for him to get so excited or irl achievements and progress with you he does unintentionally compare that to his gaming experiences quite a bit (even out loud in front of you). Not babying him or shaming him but it's still nice to talk about the things you expect or want relationship-wise and I know he'd be out of his depth with that.

his only other flaw (to some, not me 🤔) might be his avid infodumping and explaining of shows/anime/games/manga IF you arent interested in hearing about that a lot. What else do you guys have in common that you can relate with I suppose? A very minor thing though as I think many of us like a little infodumping nerd as long as they arent being pretentious about it! ^_^

<- she is not going into detail on Rurichan since there's too much debating on if its weird or simply his special interest/comfort character. them artists (especially in the anime) really keep trying to set him up tho..

SATAN: oooh boy. I recognize that Satan's character (ignoring Nightbringer) is for the most part stuck in a limbo of constantly having ties to Luci and his insecurities around that. Not necessarily a flop since I do believe that he would confide in you about it a fair amount buttttt he definitely loses points for constantly bringing up Lucifer. -100 EXP

People are always making him out to be extremely angry at the drop of a pin, which yea does get angry about things, but also he? don't be getting angry all that often? especially when he gets his little annual pockets of character development? angry and annoyed occasionally sure but its not his ONLY trait. now if he's raging 24/7 and could barely have a convo with anyone that'd be red flag dating flop city! but since he is not we can slide him further down the least to being less of a dating flop with you. (we're ignoring the NB version of him btw)

Now an actual flaw I can actually point out is he's also quite selfish... but he can surprisingly own up to it most of the time. sorta. kinda. well-

and to a degree he definitely seems to be lacking in awareness in certain social aspects. He's just a silly guy on the spectrum like most of his brothers tho: he gets a pass. Plus he's a socialite he's got a lot of fun connections, what does it matter that he can meow on command in the middle of this fancy dinner. Sure the other guests are looking at us weird and he's a little bit of a freak but he can meow-

His biggest flaw is being funny actually. That pisses me off stop making me laugh ✋🏿🙄 and if you hate him making cat puns i suppaws that would get under your skin too

ASMO: Asmo's insecurities are gonna get the better of him every now n again also, so while he's not quite in the same self-deprecating league as Levi, he definitely needs a lot of reassurance and compliments to stay grounded. So if that's not something you can keep up with it could prove to be a lot considering he's so obsessed with himself. Just like Mammon he has a lot of possessive tendencies, but it comes out in interesting ways unlike Mammon's ig. He's covertly silly with it since he'd say it with a cute smile on his face. He's a little insane also. I think it's just cuz the version of Asmo I have in my head is drenched in blood I hope you understand. Something isn't right up there (affectionate) so you would also have to get used to the most insane things being said with a smile. Not a flaw to most people of course but to ppl that are normal... well... it would be a lot

But Imagine youre dating him, you walk into his room and you see him quietly mumbling to himself in a ring of mirrors to cheer himself up. I'd be like hey um. Do we need to talk about this.

And to finish it off he does have a quite a bit of selfish moments considering he loves to put himself first (common theme with the ppl in the devildom hm...) and a lot of times where he gets unreasonably angry! But to be fair I love selfish angry characters IF they fit the right boxes, so I cheer whenever he gets like that bcuz I love studying him 🔍. Dealing with it in real life tho well... hm. who's to say how one would handle that! He's still my little sweetie tho and he would eat up the romancing and wining & dining and know HOW you need to be loved, there's just the other things to deal with when it comes to dating him!

BEEL: he's on the LEAST likely to flop while dating you scale honestly cuz he's literally just a chill sweet guy when he's trying his best. I think his only problem would be in not understanding you sometimes. Im sure he listens but will he really GET everything. Bcuz there are a few moments in game where Beel seems to be a lot more internally insightful even if he's not as vocal about his thoughts. And he's clearly very considerate abt the people he cares about, but ultimately there's a lot he just wouldn't get unless you sit down and clearly explain it to him. Bcuz otherwise it could come off as him not caring or being indifferent since he's pretty nonchalant. Blunt at times but still, easy-going and fairly perceptive.

And he's very much also a guy that just charges into things, though it's kind of a give-or-take thing. He is equally the guy that worries and stresses about something in silence if it's serious enough or he does not dwell on something for too long at all- which! could possibly be something that annoys you as once again, it could come off as him seeming too nonchalant or unintentionally dismissive. Or well. the things he charges into might have to be something you talk him out of. You're gonna hear shit like this on the regular and he's gonna wonder why youre staring at him funny

Another flaw is his sin i supposeeeeee but i'd rather not just dumb him down to guy who eats a lot cant stop eating food food food yknow -w- but well yknow. just how much WOULD his sin get in the way of things, bcuz it seems to consume him in a way thats wayyyy more intense than any of the other brothers sins interestingly enough

You'd have to deal with Belphie by extension too since they LOVE having the twins as a set that simply cannot be separated...... That also means having to always be dealing with Beel babying Belphie even though that man is very well GROWN. -100 EXP

he's crazy for saying this kinda thing all casual like also. do that in private man ☝🏿

Belphie: Sorry I have to bring it up again even tho i know ppl are dead tired of hearing about but i STILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL think there shouldve been an actual proper talk and the appropriate amount of time given abt the killing instead of them moving right past it and MC being like 'it was just a lil oopsie we all have our bad days teehee ^-^'. if i got into a relationship with someone that tried and SUCCEEDED in killing me in this little magicverse i'd be like um. can we idk. talk about this in depth. You're not gonna kill me again in the future somehow right. Right?

Also I see and understand people saying that quality time, words of affirmation and acts of service are very clearly things Belphie likes since he's constantly asking to be around you/hear our opinions on things and ask if you need help with things (even tho he can be kinda lousy at helping out honestly -_-) but he also has a problem with demanding things of the player.. not quite in the same way as Lucifer, but it's close. Like if I do not want you to head over to my room to sleep together (literal sleeping) then why are you inviting yourself over? 🗣️📣📣📣📣LISTEN TO MEEEEEEE & STAY IN YA ROOM❗ ❗ ❗❗

He's a spoiled brat also! Like actual brat! Youngest syndrome is so very real with him, so if you're alright with being the main. well. person that has to do nearly everything then good'onya. I cannot imagine getting this dude dressed AND lugging this dude to classes all bcuz he wants to sleep in a little more ☝🏿 GET UP but if youre into being the main caregiver then shrugs

-10 MILLION POINTS DEDUCTED for being funnier than me also. thats a mistake no one should ever make ☝🏿

DIAVOLO: well. you see. so. there's. well. so um.

I do think he has a bittttt of an issue with choosing to completely overlook things. Diavolo is on a very thin line to me as a character bcuz I do think he is silly and fun at times and not 'AS' quick to read the room... and really is just essentially like... experiencing things for the first time and causing unintentional chaos because he's been so tied to his duties all his life but he's also like? Still very grown, smart and capable of quiet observation of others. (gestures to NB currently)

I feel like he would be analyzing you all the time whether you realize it or not (for good or bad). He's just a lot more observant about things than you realize so while he WOULD use this for good to spoil you he would probably be reading into you as a person way too much. But in a lowkey manner. Not manipulatively per se just,,, I think you are still mainly like an intriguing pet to him at times, or something to study and take note of. Like he really just does whatever the hell he wants for his own pleasure. He made an entire fake beach and sun just cuz he wanted a beach day yknow what the hell. I get it but how did he do that. What other powers do you have

Impressing you could come off as belitting you unintentionally (not always but sometimes). OKAY WALK WITH ME HERE- for example. That one scene from Ouran High School when Tamaki is making a big show of trying 'commoners coffee'. I know what youre saying ur sayin 'But Carly that sounds more like something Mephisto would do' nonono I shake my head. Mephisto is not going to make a show of trying it he'll just outright be recommending YOU a specially made blend of his tastes to put YOU onto better things FIRST. Diavolo's DIVING IN first though. Dia would absolutely think it's some great big fun adventure to try 'normal' human world tea or coffee and comment on it. But like, if i was sitting across from this big hulking guy complimenting tea I drink normally in a 'Wow, so this is what humans drink. How inspiring.' I'd want to shake him since it unintentionally sounds like im being belittled -_-. Give me back my damn instant blend! ❗ ❗ He's thinking he's bonding with you and trying something from your culture (which yes he is), but does it warrant such grand showboating and amazement. It's just tea man. Just silently enjoy a cuppa instead of patting yourself on the back for being brave enough to try human tea </3

Or. Or. demanding your time on his schedule at the wrong times. He's The Prince why wouldn't you wanna drop everything and have dinner with him. 'Oh,,, you're busy 👉👈 oh what a shame.👉👈 we (Barbatos) prepared a nice lovely dinner! 👉👈 However, I suppose its quite alright if you do what you need to do. 👉👈 Eating alone tonight, be safe 👉👈' And then he sends a picture of the meal with eye emojis, do you get what im putting down

One big flop for certain tho is him always being oh so busy. Like sit there and really imagine it. Dating a royal is already something but a Prince? Soon to be King? thats a lot of responsibility to juggle I know it'd get crazy balancing attention and schedules.

Also lets be real yall he's so used to being babied quite a bit, mainly by Barbatos. Barbatos is tough on him at times for his own good sure but he more-so spoils him still (hypocrite that he is!). are you ready to unintentionally be compared to that in terms of being able to care for Diavolo. Barbatos won't technically be competing with you either but as his main caregiver he'll still be inserting a lot of himself between the two of you. Also, that man is lowkey needy and has some lingering childhood issues you will have to be very careful with talking abt and comforting him for once he gets to a point to actually open up about it- so be mindful of these things

Also he's insane. But if you're into insanity it's probably whatever.

BARBATOS: I know I am '''''''''barbatos ceo''''''''' so i have been very very very delusional about him but aside from being so very 'malewifecore' i'd place him on a scale of 1 -10 at a 8.5 (1 being worst mostl likely to flop partner ever, 10 being best). Looking at his character he's very much set on keeping a very decent distance between him and the player for quite some time so i think dating wise there's just so many things he'd never properly open up about. Or it'd take so very impossibly long.

I remember reading his wiki one day and seeing this ^ (which btw theres a lot going on there.) so I feel like, even if he did really like you, he would most definitely always prioritize his work to the royal family first so.... he might potentially? be on the fence about further pursuing things with you even at one point??? Not to say that he isn't caring and attentive but I think he would greatly struggle with balancing his openness and affection towards you. And we must keep in mind that just like Mammon he ALSO has the Greed sin. He is a lot less likely to show it around others but he is very secretly possessive and makes it known occasionally so if you have problems with that it'd be interesting finding a balance with him. Secretly he 'will he or wont he' dude internally. But yea I've always thought it's so interesting that he'd say he just gives up. Makes you wonder and think more... but yet he wants to be bound by his lover. Very conflicting right? Which explains his struggles with desires and duty very well!

More on his duties though he's gonna overwork himself like crazy and it would be so tricky making plans or spending time together. Also he lowkey has insecurities about ONLY being tied to the butler role, much like how Leviathan will always bring up being a shut in. Like you are more than that cmon -_- youre gonna make MC feel bad! He must still be reassured a fair amount!

Something is also terribly wrong with him. but if you are insane like me you find that fun. Like oh he's tortured people? God forbid women do anything in this economy 🙄

Actual in person dating though <- she would be perplexed by his mysterious unnerving ways

SIMEON: Simeon definitely high on the scale of being a good partner so he's A LOT less likely to flop on this list. BUT, he definitely seems to hold back on sharing his opinions or opening up about certain things with himself quite a bit. 😮 And I feel like he might be the type to try and keep the mood content and peaceful so it would be a bit hard to talk about the unpleasant things. He CAN talk about unpleasant things, dont get me wrong, but I get the feeling he'd be good at dodging certain things and saying what you feel like should be said. Especially if he isn't particularly ready to talk about something YET. Big emphasis on the YET. I imagine as his partner, if you are aware that he's constantly being a bit dodgy about certain topics constantly you would feel some way about it since it's easy to recognize when he's doing it. This isn't to say he's manipulative or a dishonest character, but I find that it would take a long time to really get to his core even if things are genuinely sweet and easygoing between you two.

Also its a genuine pet-peeve for some people to deal with others that arent all that tech savvy? If you show him a meme on your phone he's gonna grab the whole thing, not get it at all, say 'who is this?' in confusion, try to zoom in and when he taps the screen it's gonna switch to a different picture/app and he'll be like 'What happened to it :(' which I think is hilarious and cute; but once again, could be something that genuinely annoys ppl, and annoyances over little quirks DO build up over time! Still adore him tho mwah

SOLOMON: Something is wrong with him. 🚶🏿‍♀️ That's his flaw. 🚶🏿‍♀️ Like something is just deeply wrong with him and he's way too casual about it. 🚶🏿‍♀️ He's literally that post where it's like 'yea something happened to your boyfriend and he came back all wrong. yea. sorry. we don't know what happened.'

If you're the type that stresses about things or worries a lot or finds that very easy-going people annoy you then well... Solomon will annoy you.

Im not saying he's not going to be attentive to you because he's shown to be very active and forward in a lot of ways, but I'm talking more along the lines of unintentionally dismissing things. Like for me personally I need a bit of guidance and structure and direction and if I don't see that I will be forced to take the lead. Just depends on how you are as a person really!

Let's get the most obvious thing out of the way though he can never cook you a fancy meal. Not everyone can cook we all have our different strengths that is for certain but if you don't tell him straight up, or constantly You're Going To Have To Eat His Food.

He may or may not be the reason you constantly get into situations also, in between Levi's games and Diavolo's chaos, Solomon is pretty much the main reason so many situations happen in events!? fhskfs I think that would increase in dating him even if he does actually do his best to look out for you in his own way.

But he's also like. Just a guy to me. Which is crazy because besides the mental illness + genuinely being playful with the MC, there is surprisingly a lot to him that is just. not touched on writing wise. or not explored. so I can admit there are other things that aren't coming to mind really. He's just there to me.

Apparently he's very forgetful with important dates also so if thats something that bothers you then well </3

MEPHY: of course in comparison to the others we do not know AS much abt Mephisto but looking a mile away you know his elitism is his main flaw. He would be very uppity with you and not realize whats wrong with that per se, even though he's so quick to call out the rudeness or impoliteness of others

his main flop is that he's going to be dramatic as hell at some point whether intentionally or not. he is definitely the guy to tell you he's fine while he's visibly shaking fists clenched trying to act unbothered when he really wants to complain to someone. He may very well go running to Satan or Dia for advice regarding the two of you if he really needs a second opinion without directly consulting you. So yes, those guys will also be privy to your business by extension. I know Belphie's also in the anti-luci league but can we really count on him for advice when Satan is most definitely the more dependable choice? anyways

Mephisto is also literally the image of the boyfriend walking with his girlfriend looking back at another girl. But the other girl is Dia. He's looking back at Dia sorry... that's his childhood buddy. He's so obsessed with that guy.............. You're gonna hear him going woe is me a lot over losing his buddy to his duties and the Prince always having his attention on Luci.... it just is what it is :/ Me personally also I just feel like I would get into mini arguments with him a lot. he is my rival and my bestie in my mind that I want to strangle whenever he opens his mouth

Like he is a BRAGGER by nature. And if you do not like people that brag about the littlest things he is going to get on your nerves. And since he also seems to come from a royal/rich background he is most definitely spoiled and parades through life with the expectation that others will treat him with appropriate amounts of respect. And due to his riches he could indirectly insult you at some point no matter what your financial status is, he may unintentionally make a comment that's in poor taste. Like if you take him to your favorite hole in the wall restaurant for a chill date he's going to say things even if he doesn't actually mean to come off as prudish.

He'd make an effort at least if youre getting him to try new things and he's not necessarily THAT uptight. He gets involved with things and has fun still!.... sometimes! But in reference to what I mentioned about Dia earlier with the whole commoners coffee thing this is another example to compare. Dia trying a burger for the first time would be like: "Ah! So this is what it's like to enjoy something this simple. The taste is rather interesting but I quite like it! Perhaps I will ask Barbatos if he can add this homestyle method to our regular menu :D" Whereas Meph is taking bites with his knife and fork like: "Hm. They really ought to improve the production cost and quality for these things. Oh, No I never said i disliked it, I'm merely making a note of something. Not bad though."

RAPHAEL: once again in comparison to the others we do not know AS much about him compared to the 'main' group. so im going off the little that i have witnessed in game and trying my hardest not to confuse that with fanposts but... He's so terribly blunt and unaware of things. He's a bit similar to Beel in that regard that he dives first into things and seems rather uncaring or dismissive about something due to his bluntness. But he's like BLUNT blunt, like blunt to the max even. Like this is crazy to me. how is it that LUCIFER is saying you're too much for him.

So he would most definitely struggle with being way too blunt towards YOU... it would take awhile for him to ease up on that I believe.

I'll be honest he kinda just. Sits there quietly really. I imagine trying to talk to him can feel a little bit like dealing with a brick wall, because I think it would be hard to understand what's going on in his mind at times, not to mention being tied down with his strictness.

And not to mention his sense of justice and penchant for casually mentioning violence seems to completely overpower him at the flip of a switch. I mean if you're cool with him threatening to use his spear on people that annoy you then so be it.

I don't know really, he's just so neurodivergent to me so i cant really call him a flop for that he just exhibits so many of those traits, it's just something you'd have to work on with him or get accustomed to

-ONE BILLION TRILLION POINTS DEDUCTED FOR LIKING SOLOMONS FOOD THO 100000000000000 EXP

THIRTEEN: once again in comparison to the others we do not know AS much about her compared to the 'main' group.

but she is most def on the LEAST likely to flop at dating you end of the list, cuz she quite LITERALLY is upfront about liking the player a lot more quickly than the others. she's literally so cute and just minds her business until OTHER people bother her peace. She does have tsundere-like qualities sure, but if you're direct with her she does eventually come around to expressing why she does what she does. And I don't think she would ever mess with the length of your lifespan just bcuz the two of you have a little disagreement or something. To someone else though for fun, sure:

that aside tho i can't particularly point out any major flaws in the moment i love her so bad. someone would have to sell me on it, but also why arent you supporting womens wrongs hm? 🤨🤨🤨🤨

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