Here’s the thing about Timothy stoker
here it is the tim post
People who say tim is an asshole are partially correct.
People who say tim is ‘toxic’ are INCORRECT.
I am very strongly about this because. listen to me. okay.
SPOILERS UP TO TMA SEASON 3 AHEAD
Imagine BEING timothy stoker. After whats probaboy the secondmost traumatizing experience of your life in which you almost die if not by the worms then by the MEDICAL EMERGENCY (respiratory acidosis is a medical emergency :3) your body was put into- plagued with nightmares and the pain of your body being covered in holes and your medical issues, you come back to the archives expecting to see your best friend, That will make it all better. It’ll be so worth it once you can see her again.
And then she acts so distant. And you dont know why.
And you have just lost your friendship. The one that’s kept you going this whole time. The one you were starting to believe might have been unbreakable. And you Don’t. Know. Why.
Eventually after many failed attempts to reconnect, you resign yourself to the fact that she just got tired of you. That you were right this whole time. That she just pitied you. You still don’t know what you did wrong and it’s eating you alive, but she won’t tell you, so you have to settle with pretending to be glad that she’s at least alive, All while your boss is literally going insane and STALKING YOU???
Only to find out after a YEAR of believing you were just unlovable that this person? The person youve been trying to ‘reconnect’ with? That isnt your best friend, Your best friend dies and you never noticed. How could you not notice? But when you see the real picture of her she feels like a stranger and you realize you have no fucking escape from your horrible, unforgivable sin of forgetting your friend. Because no matter what you do, trying to look back at your memories, that *thing* is there instead. You can’t even enjoy your memories before she died.
So you sit there, alone and afraid. Angry, grieving, everything else. What are you supposed to do but make the thing that has haunted you since the disappearance of your Brother feel the kind of pain it is making you feel?
Tim isn’t toxic. Hell I wouldn’t even say he’s that much of an asshole.
He’s a hurt child.
Mentally, especially in season three, he’s having the equivalent of a child’s breakdown. The kind they have when they don’t know how to express the emotions they’re feeling. These emotions- this grief, this anger, this pain- it’s so big, it’s so much, and he feels so small, so incapable and weak, and he cannot properly handle it. He cannot cope. Especially since he’s still somewhat trapped in who he was when his brother was taken.
Now im not saying the way he went about this is at all great, but yknow. Everyone forgives reactions to trauma until they’re personally inconvenient or ugly.
Tim lost everything, and honestly i would be pretty damn similar if I was in his position! That’s DEVASTATING.
In the end, there’s such a horrible tragedy to his entire character that goes almost entirely unnoticed unless you’re like me and you’re insane and overanalyze someone based on one word in an extra audio thats not in the podcast.
Anyways, that’s why I love Tim.
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hi! i wanted to get your opinion because i admire the way you write these characters and you're so knowledgeable of the lore.
do you think robert actually loved lyanna or do you think she was just something he felt he was owed? like a prize that was taken away from him by someone else rather than her being her own person.
keep in mind i've only ever seen the show but his behaviour always struck me as obsessive rather than a man truly mourning "the love of his life."
i also don't see lyanna liking robert as 1) he was much older than her right? and 2) arya was a lot like her right? so she was a free spirit and wanted to learn and fight and not be a lady and robert doesn't strike me as someone ok with that in a wife. 3) robert's always been a whore so even if he did "love" lyanna he wouldn't be faithful regardless.
i know ned loved robert but he too saw the type of person robert was (and became after the war) and i don't see ned being truly comfortable with him being with his sister.
anyway i just have a lot of feelings about lyanna even tho i don't know much about her (i've just started the first book!) and i feel for her because girls are never allowed to just be girls. men always ruin everything with their wars and their egos and it's always the women who suffer, especially in game of thrones.
i think often of what it would be like if she lived and how horrid her future would be because of men in her life especially if she still gave birth to jon. she didn't deserve to die but maybe death was a kinder fate.
So interestingly enough, Robert in the show actually provides a lot more interesting perspective on this. Robert in the books is a lot more blatantly dislikable and unsympathetic, but the show provides us a new version of Robert that is actually as tragic as he is pathetic.
The simple fact of the matter is Robert didn't really know her. Robert liked the idea of Lyanna, but because she was gone so early before he could know her, he doesn't actually have a memory of her that is solid and concrete. He only has the memory of the idea of her, and he can only mourn that. So as the years go on, by the time we meet him, he has really nothing left but those scraps of a girl he hardly knew.
It's more explained in the books, but Lyanna did not like Robert. She didn't like he got around so much he had bastards yet was betrothed to her, she didn't like the fact that she knew he would be unfaithful, and clearly did not wish to marry him. Now Ned did try and tell her otherwise because partially yes Robert is his friend, but also because Ned knows he has no control over that marriage and would rather try to make his sister feel better and say maybe it will get better then just tell her what a miserable life shes in store for. Ned wanted to give her hope rather then give her literally nothing.
But Robert in the show is much more interesting, because he in the show, knows exactly what he's turned into. Robert in the show is smart, we see in the way he senses war coming, the way he understands what would happen should the Dothraki invade and in reterospective he was right about getting rid of the Targaryean threat early on before they slaughtered the people of Westeros. We struggle to see he's right though because both what we know about Jon and how that influences Neds responce to all this, and also his passion for his own hatred is off putting, but he's right, he's smart and he knows he is washed up from his own hand.
But Robert too, knows hes pathetic. He knows he has given himself no life to value now, so all he has is the past to cling onto. It's why he cannot give up Lyannas memory. She died before he had the chance to know her as a person and thus his memory of her loss is shrouded in the falsehoods he painted about her.
There's this scene he has with Cersei discussing her, and it's why I think Robert both does and doesn't love Lyanna, it's also one of the most emotionally honest scenes in season 1 from Robert of all people:
"You want to know the horrible truth? I can't even remember what she looked like. All I know is she was the one thing I ever wanted. Someone took her away from me, and Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind."
Robert is trapped at Lyannas loss. He has never moved on, and he still mourns her as if right in that fresh memory. But he also knows he has so little of Lyanna that he barley has her image in his head, all he has is the memory of loss. It's pathetic and he knows he's pathetic because he laments with shame to Cersei just after this that he never could've loved her in Lyannas place.
He loves the memory of Lyanna rather then her, but Robert in the show is more sympathetic about it. Him saying Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind is such a good line. He's saying being King did not fufill that loss and thus nothing at this point ever will. He's admitting being King was not a solution to trauma but he knows no other way anymore.
Now would she have been happy with Robert? No. I don't think Lyanna wanted to marry at all, or at least at that age she held no interest in marriage. She was wild and fun and passionate about her people, her brothers, her friends. She wanted to be a girl who still had time to live her passions and maybe pursue something more to her duties as a highborn girl later in life.
Now, some people think Ned would never have stepped in on Lyannas behalf with Robert, but no. Ned hid Lyannas son from Robert, which considering who the father was, that act by Ned could've been considered treason for Jons whole life. Ned does not value Roberts friendship or his loyalty to Robert over Lyanna. And some people equating how Ned handles Cersei to how he'd handle Lyanna is wrong.
Ned KNOWS Cersei is the enemy. Ned KNOWS Cersei would rather see him dead then what she's built up dismantled. Ned feels for her abuse at Roberts hands but will not step in because Cersei has given him no reason to be loyal to her more then his oldest friend.
But Ned cared more about Lyanna then Cersei and more about Lyanna then Robert.
Some people think Ned wouldn't have intervened if Lyanna suffered with Robert but thats not true. Ned hid the biggest secret Robert would've killed for, from him even beyond Roberts death. If Ned wouldn't have stepped in for Lyanna against Robert, he wouldn't have taken Lyannas son in as his own and hidden him from Robert his whole life.
Ned also DOES push back against him. Talks him out of stupid ideas, tells him off, quits being Hand of the King (which too is actually about Neds own fear about Robert learning the truth of Lyanna and Jon, its actually not about Dany at all). Ned clearly does not put Robert ahead of his family until he is given no choice but to stay and serve him. Robert all but orders him to stay in Kings Landing, which even then, Neds plan is to still send his children home even when he couldn't go with them.
I can't say for sure if Robert would've treated Lyanna the way he did Cersei, but I don't think it would be like that. He'd still be unfaithful and hostile, but he hates Cersei partially because he was forced to marry a woman soon after losing Lyanna. He resents Cersei for not being her.
If he married Lyanna I don't think he'd mistreat her the way he blatantly does Cersei but no, it wouldn't have been a happy marriage. But I don't think the degree of abuse and marital rape would have occurred the way people think it would've.
Robert and Ned both do not value Cersei's life the way they both valued Lyannas, and thus the way she'd be treated or protected would be vastly different then how both of them separately handled Cersei.
Robert in the show is more tragic then he is hateable. He didn't know Lyanna and cannot move past the trauma of how she left this world. But in the show, he knows that and he knows he's pathetic for it. Now, what would've happened if Lyanna still gave birth to Jon but lived?
Thats a harder thing to hide. I think Ned still would've done the same thing, still lie and claim Jon as his own son, but would've done everything he could to ensure Lyanna does not marry Robert so she could stay in Winterfell with her son.
The question comes down to, would Robert treat Lyanna and Jon the way he tried to do with Dany when learning she was pregnant. And I don't think I can say conclusively one way or another. Clearly Ned is terrified that the answer is yes, and thats why he quits and desperatly tries to leave the captiol with his daughters. He's terrified of this reaction not for Danys sake but because hes realizing that Roberts love for Lyanna STILL would not protect Jon. He tries to leave the captiol because hes terrified that his best friend would murder Jon if he learned the truth even now, and is living in a trauma asking himself if he'd have killed Lyanna too.
But how Robert would handle Lyanna if she lived, objectively, I do not know.
Robert would try to kill Jon, but would he really harm Lyanna? It's impossible to say. But Lyanna should've lived no matter what. Rhaegar kidnapping her and she survived childbirth, or if that scenario never happened, I fully believe Ned and his brothers would've stepped in if Lyanna was mistreated by Robert. Brandon literally rode to Kings Landing to confront Rhaegar to resuce his sister, had he lived, at the least, Brandon absolutely would've stepped in on Lyannas behalf since he has no emotional attachment to Robert. And I fail to see why Ned would put his friend over the sister he literally risked everything for.
The Starks protect each other. If Ned wasn't willing to side against Robert on his sisters behalf, he never would've hidden Jon from Robert in the first place. He protected Jon because it was his final way of protecting Lyanna.
In the books, I think theres more of an argument to say Robert would've mistreated her, but in the show? I cannot say yes or no, Robert Baratheon in the show is a completely different version of this character.
And I think show Robert is a lot more sympathetic then haters of book Robert will give him credit for. Which I can say, because I, a fan of show Robert actually fucking hate Robert in the books. Get away from Cersei you abuser, I know she's crazy and evil but hiss hiss bite bite.
But really that one line I quoted earlier tells me that he has always had a soft spot for Lyanna, and he knows that being King didn't actually help him move on. In his own way he loves Lyanna, but the way he loves her is just different then the people who are Lyannas actual blood. The same is true for Robert, Ned, and even without realizing so directly, Jon too.
Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.
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So, why do some people who love Crimson Flower always go on about how the English translation is pure evil? Because they always say that "oh, Treehouse hated Edelgard," but they never do a side-by-side comparison of why the English translaton is significantly more pro-Dimitri and anti-Edelgard (notice who they leave out in that) than the Japanese script.
From what I've seen, it seems to come from early fandom interpretations of 3H saying that it was "mistranslated to make Edelgard look worse" that came from people who, uh. Primarily didn't actually speak Japanese, or otherwise had a fairly severe misunderstanding of it.
You'll see this with pretty much every big-name event that is claimed to have been "mistranslated" in general. The AM parley, the Continue To Kill no u, Faerghus Toxic Masculinity, and "the Dream Interview calls her an antagonist not a villain" are the Big 4 of this thing happening, and all four of them have been thoroughly debunked as nonsense by people who actually speak and understand Japanese. That's probably why the actual MAJORITY of events that get the "this was mistranslated to make Edelgard look worse" card don't actually have that side-by-side comparison you mention (since there's WAY more smaller things that they say this about, for example Dimitri was TOTALLY JOKING with Edelgard during Gronder 1 and TOTALLY WASN'T freaked the fuck out at her "jokes"), because the people who claim this are 0-4 on being correct about this for four of the most important examples of this supposedly happening.
So they'll kinda just say anything is Totally A Mistranslation in the hopes that the English-speaking fandom who for the most part don't speak Japanese will believe them, and through that believe them on what the game is "actually" trying to say. With that being, of course, that Edelgard was completely and utterly right about literally actually factually every single thing she has ever said in the game ever and literally actually factually every single other person who disagrees with her is completely and utterly wrong (unless what they're saying is, of course, in alignment with what Edelgard is saying).
And if anyone who actually knows what they're talking about comes in and corrects them - even nicely! - they'll either go on about how everyone is coming after them (read: people who understand Japanese are correcting someone who doesn't understand Japanese about something that exclusively revolves around understanding Japanese), or they'll accuse that person of being a liar/sexist/homophobic POS who just wants the poor little gay bean that is Edelgard to be pure and utter evil since they totally view all gay women to be pure and utter evil.
All this, from what I can gather, is mostly to serve as a justification as to why they like Edelgard since they view liking her as a villain to be a genuine mark of bad character, for some reason. They want to believe that she's the progressive figure who does everything for the little guy for one reason or another, and so grab for any excuse they can give her they can think of to make their interpretation of her not seem so unfounded against all of the evidence Edelgard provides the player that she really is just an imperialist who doesn't really give a shit about her people if doing so gives even the slightest bump to her goal of forceful unification. All because daring to like villains is just soooo baaaaad lmao
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