Episode 6 Transcript: Big Yellow Serpent Doe Eyes
[Garageband Good Omens theme song plays]
C: Hello! My name is Crystal.
G: And my name is Grey.
C: And this is Rubbish and Probably a Podcast, a Good Omens commentary podcast where I, someone who's seen this show too many times…
G: And I, someone who only knows this show through Crystal, discuss every single episode of Good Omens.
C: For today’s episode, we are discussing Season 1, Episode 6: “The Very Last Day of the Rest of Their Lives.”
G: Season 1 finale, baby!
C: You thought this episode was just okay.
G: Oh, yeah, I don't like it. It's fine! Okay, 'cause my friend Rese has watched Good Omens and like, has a sibling who is very into Good Omens, so she's well aware of this show and the book and everything. And when I asked her if she watched it herself, she said, "Yeah." And that was like, the end of it. [C laughs] And I was very confused because I asked her this when we have watched like, Season 3 at that point- "Season 3." Episode 3 - at that point, and I was like, "How is it that you watched all this and you feel nothing? Like, you're not even invested in any way, shape, or form, back then or now?" And upon watching this episode, I understand.
C: Ouch.
G: I feel like the only reason why I am this into Good Omens is because I watched it week-per-week. But if I watched it like, you know, like, six hours straight and then it ends this way, I'll be like, "Yeah, I don't really care." Which is such a brutal takedown of this episode. But, like, I really don't care. [laughs]
C: You have told me this many times.
G: Yeah.
C: I think that this does a pretty bad job at resolving the Apocalypse and Adam plot, especially because they cut a lot of, I'd say, the most important lines in the book. But, I mean, like, Aziraphale literally smiled. [G laughs] So like, maybe this is like, great writing, and everyone should download Ecosia, so.
G: It well may be. It's just - it's not - it doesn't- Well, like, it resolves stuff, but not in any way-
C: Not well.
G: - that, you know, like, particularly touched me or anything. And even the Aziraphale and Crowley stuff, you know, like, they went through this super enormous thing together, and then it ends, and it's like, they're just back to who they were before. You know, even if like, "Oh, the world doesn't even know that like, this thing happened, and people forgot that, and people think that everything was just in their imagination" or whatnot, like, Crowley and Aziraphale know, and it should change them somehow. And like, I understand that, like, this episode is like, they were packing a lot into it, it wasn't just Crowley and Aziraphale's story that they're wrapping up.
C: Yeah, they had to do terrible things to other women. [laughs]
G: Yeah. So like, I understand that they didn't have the time. But like, nothing happened last episode! And I understand that, like, you know, when you're doing a TV show, every episode has to have like, a thing and then etc etc, so like- Ah, whatever. You get what I mean. It's just- it feels both rushed and like, also that nothing happens. Yeah.
C: Mm-hm.
G: I'm such a hater. But I mean, I did- I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.
C: No, this is really good news for me and Season 2. [G laughs] That's what I'm holding onto. I look forward to both of us being absolute despisers of Season 2 and driving away our entire listener base. [both laugh]
G: Also, you know what I said, like, I kept on saying it pretty much ever since our Season 3 episode where I kept saying, "Are you sure that Neil Gaiman did not plan a Season 2 at all? Like, are you so fucking positive? Like, it's impossible! It's impossible that there was not a Season 2 in mind." I kept saying it? There was not a Season 2 in mind. Absolutely not.
C: [laughing] There was not a Season 2 in mind! [both] Absolutely not.
G: So yeah, I believe you now. I'm sorry for ever doubting you, my good friend Crystal.
C: Thank you! Thank you, my good friend Grey.
G: Oh, I have to read the thing. [laughs]
C: Oh, yeah. Hit us with the Fandom Wiki summary, Grey, go!
G: "Armageddon arrives, and Adam must choose between fathers with a little help from Aziraphale and Crowley."
C: That is not what fucking happened.
G: That is such a bad fucking summary.
C: [laughing] Like, it is what happened, but it wasn't
G: Anathema chooses whether she wants to be a descendant. Shadwell wonders how many nipples Tracy has-
C: What?
G: - and Dog breaks through a hedge.
C: What?
G: Who fucking wrote this? And if it's like, a fan, god bless.
C: People did this for free on the Internet to help us. [G laughing] But wow. I would have written something different free on the Internet to help us.
G: This episode is not fun! I mean, it's fun, but it's fine, but like, I don't know.
C: I would have cut out the bodyswap stuff in order to give Adam his book lines back.
G: Hm. Well, is. Is there no body swap in-
C: In the book? No. Neil Gaiman was just like, "Hehehehehe. [G laughs] I talked with Mark Gatiss, and he was like, 'People love when you act like you're smart.'" And Neil Gaiman was like, "I know exactly how to act like I'm smart." And then he did this. And it's fun the first go-around, and then the next go around, you're like, "I don't think that actually works so well." So yeah.
G: What do you mean the next go-around?
C: Like, the first time you watch and you don't know you're like, "Gasp! Egads!" etc. And then the second time- okay, fine, the second time you're like, "It's so fun how Aziraphale’s great at playing Crowley, and Crowley's only mid at playing Aziraphale [G laughs] because it actually shows the opposite thing about the acting abilities of David Tennant and Michael Sheen." And then, like, the third time you're like, "Eh. I wish they'd save this time for something else."
G: I mean, it doesn't matter. I mean, it does matter.
C: I think it's because it just feels emotionally incomplete for- in the book- for them just to go, "I think they'll leave us alone just because they're embarrassed about what happened at the air base." and then they just go back to their lives.
G: Of course.
C: So like, I understand this as like, everyone being like, "Well, no one's gonna believe that they're gonna be left alone unless we do something." But like, I mean, there could just been a prophecy that was like, "And you two will be fine and also make out all the time." [G laughs] Like, I don't think we needed to waste like, 15 minutes on this or whatever.
G: Yeah. Well. We did, though. So.
C: We did. And like, I didn't not have fun about it.
G: I had fun!
C: I just wish that there was better resource management.
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C: We open in Hell. Dagon, Beelzebub, Hastur, and this usher demon who you described as Jabba the Hutt?
G: I described?
C: I don't know who that is. Is that like, from Star Wars? Didn't you?
G: Oh, yeah! Oh, we have to say that I watch this episode, most of it, about half of it, I guess, while I was on a call with Crystal, so-
C: Yeah, but I was like, muted or whatever.
G: Yeah, Crystal already has some knowledge of how I think/feel about the first few scenes at the very least. Yeah. But I'll check that. Is Jabba the Hutt a real- Yes!
C: Yeah, that's some Star Wars guy or something.
G: He does look like Jabba the Hutt, except Jabba the Hutt is like, larger. So this dude's like a mini Jabba the Hutt.
C: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so baby Jabba, they're all entering a courtroom in Hell, and Crowley gets brought in with hands bound in front of him, wearing a jacket, a tie, and a lot of chest hair.
G: Hell yeah.
C: The usher announces that this is the trial of the demon Crowley, beginning with evidence and ending with utter obliviation. So Crowley comes in, looking like, you know, the coolest guy around and is like, "Hey guys. Nice place you've got here. Could do with some house plants. Maybe a coffee table." So, okay, Grey and I are not gonna pretend that we don't know the twist, so okay, this is Aziraphale. And isn't it so nice that he went to Crowley's place for the first time ever last night, and he was, "Quick! What are some details?" Aww. He's doing such a good job playing Crowley. Like, the "Hey guys," the like, nonchalant, whatever the fuck. And I don't think he ever would have witnessed Crowley interacting with Hell unless they had their own, like, 1800 bookshop chocolate scene. They probably spent a lot of time coaching each other. And also, Aziraphale's a good actor. Better than Crowley. Good for him.
G: Yeah. Aziraphale would have slayed it in the theater.
C: Yeah. Shit, there's actually a fic where Aziraphale plays Hamlet. It is "The Play's the Thing" by volunteerfd. I guess I would recommend the first chapter if you want a laff, spelled l-a-f-f. Crowley next is like, "So there's four of us here? Rubber of bridge? Barbershop quartet?" Aziraphale's having so much fun! So Beelzebub is the judge, Hastur is the prosecutor, and Dagon is just here in case there's anything Crowley did that they all forgot.
G: This may be the first- Is this the one? Is this the first like, time we see Dagon? Because I know we see Dagon kind of in Episode 1, but like, that's just voice.
C: Yeah, I think this is the first time we see him.
G: Amazing look. I love it.
C: Yeah, it's like- what, like, gold and silver scales on the face?
G: Yes. Some kind of marine creature is the inspiration.
C: Yeah, yeah. Seems like it.
G: Isn't it so fascinating that, like, all of them, have like- Like, why is Crowley like, basically- Oh, Crowley has the eyes. I completely forgot.
C: Crowley has the eyes. But no, I mean, people have talked about how like, all the other demons got like, way more visible stuff, and Satan was like, "Crowley, my specialest little girl, I will give you these big, beautiful, yellow serpent doe eyes, [G laughs] and let you live out on Earth drinking wine for the rest of your days while everyone else tortures each other in a damp basement." Beelzebub loses the flies buzzing around zem and like, on the face [overlapping] on Earth, so. But Crowley doesn't get any more demon-looking in Hell, so. Dunno.
G: I mean, that will be if that was the case, I feel.
C: That would be fun. Yeah. She should get some more snake scales.
G: They didn't even give her a fucking serpent tongue. Like, a split tongue. Boo!
C: I know! I know!
G: That could have been it, you guys.
C: The book says that Crowley could do really weird things with their tongue, and I would've liked to see it.
G: Hell yeah!
C: Beelzebub says that they built this place especially for Crowley, and he goes, "Guys. You shouldn't have gone to all the trouble. What appears to be the problem?" And then we get really fast zoom back until we're back to Crowley's arrival at the air base. It's a different part of "Bohemian Rhapsody" that plays. This time, it's just the one that goes, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah." Which, yeah. Well. [laughs] Maybe so.
G: Yeah. Maybe.
C: And you know, we see what happens before where he and Aziraphale greet each other.
G: You know, I am so sad that we didn't even mention in the last episode the way Crowley is walking, just so beautifully.
C: Oh, yeah, I mean, the hips are really not lying today.
G: Yeah. Was it you who said that, like, David Tennant read the script and saw that Crowley, quote, "saunters" and took that to heart and committed to the bit so hard. You know what? Wonderful.
C: I think that was probably a post or something that you saw.
G: Is it? No, I think you said it to me.
C: I don't think I said it. I think I said that he saw that Crowley was a snake once and committed to that bit.
G: Let us Google- let us search the word "saunter" in our messages.
C: Okay.
G: Oh, there's nothing. [laughs]
C: Huh. I guess I was right, and you were wrong.
G: Sauntered. There's absolutely- I can't believe we've never said the word saunter.
C: The snake- the word snake also doesn't have anything. No. [laughs] Well, there's some interesting messages with the word snake, [G laughing] but there is nothing about David Tennant's hips.
Once more, they and Aziraphale greet each other. They're like, "Leave it to me" about the army human, all cool, and then like, their "Leave it to me" is just to try to say something nice, but really awkwardly. Etc. And then the Them rush by on bikes. In that moment of confusion, when Crowley is no longer concentrating on the Bentley, it blows up.
G: Bye, baby!
C: BohRhap goes, "Any way the wind blows" mournfully over it. And Crowley's so sad about this. She like, sinks to her knees in front of the Bentley and goes, "Ninety years and not a scratch. Now look at you." Is the "not a scratch," like, "There were many scratches, but they were all miracled off," because, like, we did see her crash her car like, four episodes ago. Or like, did Crowley actually take good enough care of this car?
G: I think good enough care, yeah.
C: Aww. Well. Sorry, Crowley. You had it from new. So yeah. Aziraphale’s coming over, panicking about that soldier with the gun, and is like, not letting Crowley have their moment. Like, yelling at him to do something. "I am the nice one. You can't expect me to do the dirty work!"
G: What a fucking brat. [both laughing]
C: Like, you just had your moment in Heaven when you were told that you couldn't possess a body, and you went, "Demons can." and then went down and possessed a body. Like, you can't be back to this, can you? Aziraphale, babe. Come on! Crowley says, "I am having a moment here." And she is. And eventually, Aziraphale just disappears the guard, which you found very amusing during your first watch.
G: I did, yeah.
C: While Shadwell's pointing his exorcism finger at him. So Shadwell once again thinks that this is his doing.
G: God! I hate him so much. Every time I saw him, I was like, "I don't want this guy to be here."
C: He didn't even shoot Adam. That's all he was good for, and he didn't even do it. Eventually, Crowley gets up, sees that there's a bunch of jeeps full of soldiers coming at them, and goes, "Oh, okay, I need to get over the car thing. I'll deal with them." And also picks up the tire iron that fell from the Bentley when it exploded. Souvenir! I think that Crowley's just a souvenir girl, you know?
G: Yeah! In the Philippines, we call them anik-anik girlies, [C laughs] and it's like, girls who like to have anik-anik, which is, you know, stuff. And you know what? Crowley is very much a anik-anik girly.
C: Yeah. For real. Yeah, I mean, his flat is pretty minimalist, so like, we don't see a lot of the souvenirs, but, like, everything that is in his flat seems to have sentimental value, what with the Mona Lisa and the eagle lectern and all that. And I think there's like, certain fics where they have, like, a storage unit with the rest of their souvenirs in it. I feel like they keep something from everyone that's important to them.
So, [sighs] corny-ass thing where Aziraphale's like, "We are here to lick some serious butt!" and Crowley is like, "It's kick butt, Aziraphale." Which- what- what's the point? What's the point of any of this?
G: And also like, the whole like, "Oh, for Heaven's sake," and it's like, "Ooh, I can't believe I just said that." So corny!
C: I feel like- Well, Crowley does make a point to like, swap all the Heavens and Hells in common sayings-
G: Yeah, I've always thought that was fun. I've always thought that was fun.
C: I think that this makes sense to point out because later, Aziraphale in Heaven does say "For Heaven's sake," and it's like, "Aw, fun." like, Crowley is continuing that thing, so.
G: [unenthusiastic] I guess so. [laughs]
C: I guess so.
G: I need to be less of a hater.
C: Well, you know. Be yourself.
G: Yeah. Just be straight up, bro.
C: Just be straight up, bro. RP Tyler tells Mr. Young, "Hey, by the way, Adam and the Them are going over to that air base, and probably, they're gonna be in big trouble. Don't blame me if your son starts World War 3! Tee-hee-hoo-hoo, tee-hee-[both]hoo-hoo." [laughs] And we get the theme song.
G: Do we? Don't we get it after the car explosion?
C: No.
G: Okay.
C: No. Neil Gaiman thought he was soo funny for going, "Don't blame me if he starts World War 3." He's like, "People are really gonna be sitting with that, being like, 'Damn, Neil Gaiman. How'd you do it?' [G laughs] for three minutes." [laughs] God. Congrats to the Writers Guild of America, by the way! [both laughing] Anyway. Back to this. I'm not gonna say the full thing I said about that. There are more important things than Neil Gaiman getting to log off now. [G laughs]
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C: So we return, and the theme song sort of transforms into like, an old Western version of the same theme song continued from the actual theme, which I thought was fun. And we show, like, the Them standing off against the Horsemen's bikes. And then we go to Anewthma inside the communications hub. As they're peeking around the corner, they see the Four Horsemen there, and Anathema sees their auras, which are, as she says, "Like black holes." Back to the Them, we get shots of like, each of their eyes with the Horseman that they're paralleled with looking at each other. It's still very old Western, very fun. We also get a shot of Adam's socks above his boots.
G: Yeah, which I have claimed outside of this podcast to be one of my favorite character design detail outside of Aziraphale and Crowley. Yeah! I like it. It's nice. His little socks are picking out of his little shoes.
C: It's fun. Yeah. And they're like, bunched up on the top. That's fun.
G: Yeah. We didn't even point out last episode that the Horsemen were like, crying their color, which I thought was really cool. And like, I find it nice that they were like, "Oh, this is their last, you know, the last showdown or whatever. We need to change their get-up a little bit. Like, we need to change their look a little bit," but they can't do really anything. So they just did the tears, and it's like, splattered all over their face. I'm like, "I like that." I think it's a cool look.
C: Yeah, and also, like, Famine's teeth elongated and got really sharp last episode, which I thought was cool
G: Yeah, little sharp-y stuff, yeah.
C: Yeah, yeah, their like, true selves are leaking through their human forms or whatever. It's fun! Inside the communications hub, Anathema and Newt hear people in a bunch of different countries panicking and talking about how "Are you sure this is a good idea?" "There's nuclear strike orders implemented against Belgium," etc, etc. "We can't do the override." All that shit.
G: So we go out, and Death is doing most of the talking. And he's telling Adam, like, "Oh, the world is going to end, and it's because you were born or you exist." And Adam's like, "Well, I didn't ask for it to start."
C: He kinda did, though. Like, he kinda did. Like, he took it back, but he kinda did.
G: He kinda did. No, I mean, yeah, but like, if Adam was like, a completely human, you know, kid, even if he was like," Oh my god! The word should end because I'm so miserable because [overlapping] nobody is downloading Ecosia," [C laughs] it's not like it's going to cause, you know, this kind of Armageddon. So I get what he's trying to say. But he did ask! [laughs] Adam, you did ask. And then we see Aziraphale in Madame Tracy, Crowley, and Shadwell in a fucking like, military truck.
C: But it's not a truck. It's like, a little jeep thing but without a top. It looks like- they're giving like, theme park tour guide, but not even a vehicle big enough to be a theme park tour guide.
G: Yeah, golf court. Golf court? Golf cart.
C: Yes, golf cart. Just like Benedick in Much Ado About Nothing!
G: Yeah! [laughs] That's true.
C: I miss him so much.
G: I miss Benedick so much also.
They all get out of the golf cart, and Crowley just goes, "That's him!" and points at Adam and is like, "Oh, yeah, shoot him! And then you'll save the world and all of that." Shadwell sees the kid and goes, "Well, that's a kid. I'm not gonna shoot a kid." And Aziraphale is just like, "Oh, for fuck's sake-" no, he says, "For Heaven's sake," and then gets the gun from Shadwell and starts pointing it to the kid. And I start cheering, clapping, screaming-
C: You were right!
G: - going, "Shoot that kid! Shoot-!" and you know what? He fucking does. He shoots that fucking kid, baby! [C laughs] And like, what happens is that he goes for the kill. Madame Tracy is like, "No!" And Aziraphale hesitates a bit and asks Crowley for guidance, and Crowley was like, "Yeah, just shoot the kid." [both laugh] So Aziraphale shoots the kid, but Madame Tracy, god bless, she swerves the gun so that it doesn't hit Adam. And, you know, Adam notices that there are, in fact, two people in Madame Tracy, so he was like, "Yeah, I don't like that. Separate yourselves." And so Aziraphale is back to being Michael Sheen.
C: Yeah, in his fun outfit that he's always in. I will say that after all of the emotional buildup about Crowley being against killing kids, [laughs] and all that shit, this is mostly played for laughs, which is fine. But why all the buildup about, like, "You kill him." "No, you kill him. I refuse to do it." "No, like, you-" blah blah blah. And then this is just like, "Okay, it means nothing that Aziraphale pulled the trigger." [both laughing] Like, later, whenever he's talking to Adam, and Adam's just like, "Yeah, this is a normal guy I want in my life." Like, he tried to kill you!! Five minutes ago!
G: This is what I was saying, like, at the end of this episode, it's like nothing happened. Nothing changed. And they're just back to how they were, what I assume how they were like pre-Adam being delivered to Earth, you know? And it's just- it's a bit frustrating because like, look at this. Like, later, Aziraphale literally threatens to never talk to Crowley ever again. Crowley asks Aziraphale to run away to Alpha Centauri, and Aziraphale refuses and blah blah blah. You know, like, so many shit happened, and even this, like, in this episode, it's portrayed as silly and like, funny and like, "Oh my god! Aziraphale shoots a kid but it doesn't work," blah blah blah. It's like, this should have been like, a bigger deal.
C: Yeah. In the book, he doesn't pull the trigger.
G: Huh.
C: Yeah. So it's more okay, I think, that they go back to normal so fast. But yeah, it seems like it should matter that he did. Well, you know what? [laughing] In every episode of Supernatural, Sam or Dean pulls the trigger, and then they go back to normal afterward. [G laughs]
G: Well, that's different. You know that's different.
C: Yeah, it is.
G: It's just so incredibly funny to me that for most of this podcast, I've been saying, "Aziraphale should shoot that kid." [laughs] And then he does, and it's like, it doesn't matter. [laughs]
C: Does not matter. It doesn't.
G: They've been building it up. Fucking building it up.
C: They really have. They did not build it up so much in the book. I think that it's that Good Omens thinks it's a comedy, like, first and foremost, but like, I understand that it's a drama about the most important love story of all time, so like, sometimes those things come into conflict.
G: It's fine. I'm not that offended by it. It's just, "Well." You know.
C: A bit of a letdown, yeah. God. Crowley was so funny for, when Aziraphale was like, "Maybe we should wait." and then she went, "What? Until he grows up?" So true, babygirl.
Also, I'd say, okay, after they separate, like, Aziraphale and Madame Tracy look at each other kind of awkwardly, and then Madame Tracy, like, hightails it back to Shadwell, and is like, holding on his arm or standing behind him or something. Like, okay. Sure. Whatever.
G: Whatever.
C: God, I hate Neil Gaiman.
G: Also, I want to say that Aziraphale, throughout this entire portion, like, in the entire airbase scene, as Michael Sheen, don't you think that he's acting so differently?
C: Um. I mean he is in a combat situation, basically.
G: No, exactly. That's my point. Like, I find it so interesting. Because after I watched this, I went back to- because I was thinking, right, like, most of what we're seeing Aziraphale as recently is lot of tense situations, you know, lots of nervousness and stuff. So what I did was I went back to Episode 1 to look at him, like, before things really went quote, you know, "bad." But like, he doesn't act like this either, you know? So I think it's so fascinating that- I don't know. Maybe it's a script thing. You've read the script. Tell me if it's a script thing. But also, I think like, Michael Sheen decided that, like, Aziraphale in this moment, where it really- it really is like, do or die, will act this way. I find that so fascinating. I am still holding out whether I think it's in character or whatever. But I did find it very fascinating.
C: Well, you know what Will Wood says about that.
G: No, yeah, exactly! I've been thinking about what I said in that episode, that like, yeah, when you're in these kinds of things, you will act out of character. And you know what? Yeah. I also find it fascinating that- I mean, we'll talk about it later, but in the bus stop scene, he's back! That's Aziraphale, you know? So like, this entire scene, it's like, the first time I watched, I was like, "Oh, he's acting so weird." But like, when you think about it, it's like, "Yeah! I sure hope he does." [laughs] You know? But also, it makes him so hot. Go Aziraphale.
C: Go Aziraphale!
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G: So we go to Anathema and Newt. Eugh. Everybody knows how I feel about this. But they're sitting there, and they figured out that the world is going to axplode and die so, Anathema's like, "Ah! I don't know what we need to do." So she goes and checks a prophecy, and what she picks up is, “He is not what he says he is.”
C: "Agnes, you aren't even trying!"
G: Newt kind of like, starts shifting uncomfortably, and Anathema’s like, “Oh, what is it?” And he reveals that like, “Oh, it's maybe about me. I'm not a computer engineer. I just want to be. But like, I'm actually, really, really shit at computers, and every time I try to do something, the computer explodes and dies.” I can't believe that after this, they were still like, “Oh, no, we can't do anything!" [both laugh] So stupid.
C: It does drag on for a pretty long time.
G: It drags on for so long.
C: Especially because, when you think about it, the only point of his character was to have this unexplained gimmick so that he could touch a computer for one second in the finale.
G: The way everything comes together is soo... Like, it's fine. But, like, come on. What are we supposed to learn from this, you know? I mean, I'm not- Not everything has to have a moral. Sometimes something can just be funny. But like, Newt is not funny! [both laugh] So he needs a fucking moral, so I don't know what the moral is. Well, I mean, I'm just kidding, mostly. God, I hate this guy.
C: Yeah. Well, don't we all.
G: Well, we're back to the fucking Horsemen- [both laughing] and Adam is like-
C: Oh, god! This scene is so bad!
G: Yeah! And Adam is saying like, "Oh, you know, all these people, they're just in your head." And then, like, we zoom out, and it's War brandishing this thing, and the sword is on fire right?
C: Doing cool tricks.
G: Yeah. The sword is on fire, right? And I feel like if I was one of the four children in this team, and I saw this random adult just doing like, sword tricks- I mean, what the fuck is this?
C: I'd be like, "They're so fucking cool."
G: No, I would be like, "What is this? What are you doing?" And she's delivering some kind of monologue.
C: It's just a street performer thing. Like, sorry I don't have any change on me, ma'am.
G: [laughs] Yeah. And she is delivering some kind of speech.
C: The worst dialogue Neil Gaiman has ever done in his life.
G: What is this? What is this?
C: Like, I just- I don't know how someone can be this annoying. Or just- Like, I want a list of every single editor, every single person who ever looked at this script, and if there's a single person who's not a cis man on there, I will be gagged. Like, show these words to anyone with a basic understanding of gender - which Neil clearly doesn't when he says things like "trans in the Tumblr sense," [both laugh] and tell me that they wouldn't put a big red pen through all of it.
G: I mean, okay. 'Cause the thing is, the way this portion ends is with Pepper brandishing the sword, and going, "I believe in peace, bitch." which I actually did quite like.
C: That was fun. I love Pepper.
G: That specific line, I liked. The way it led to that line [C laughing] was so stupid! It was so- It removes some value from that line. Do you know- Okay, here's what-
C: 'Cause it's not about peace. It's just about War being sexist.
G: [laughing] No, exactly. So here's the fucking line. War is just over there brandishing the sword, going, "Little toy for little-" What was it? "Little boys with your toys."
C: "I am War. You were made to serve me, to live in me, and to die in me."
G: And then, like, Pepper says, like, "Oh, my mom says that war is just masculine imperialism executed on a global stage." [C screams] And, War looks at her and points the sword at her and goes, [overlapping] "A little girl. Run home and play with your dollies, little girl." What is this? What is this doing?
C: What?! What?! Huh? Huh? What is this about? What are we talk- What are we doing here?? [both] What's happening? Like, okay, okay. So the point of War being a woman is about the seductiveness of war and like, how that mostly appeals to men, and men are usually the ones being drafted to fight in wars, I guess, right? Though, I mean, like, at this point, we're getting more diversity wins [both laugh] about that, so, it's weird that War is sort of stuck in an earlier era regarding this. And also like, I wouldn't say that the main thing about War is that it excludes women. I wouldn't say that's the thing I would focus.
G: Also, think about it this way, right? Like, what War is saying is like, "Oh, boys want war" or whatever, and Pepper is going, "I don't want war," and War is going, "Well, you're a girl, so go back with your dolls, anyway. So when Pepper says eventually, "I believe in peace, bitch." What's the line? What's the thread here?
C: That doesn't actually go against that War is eschewing, yeah.
G: It's so stupid!
C: Yeah.
G: This is the point in the episode where I go, "Oh, it's bad." [both laugh] The episode is bad, you guys. Like, when this started happening, and I realized that Anathema and Newt are gonna be by each other's side for longer than I anticipated, I was like, "Oh, guys. I don't like this. I don't like this, you guys. It's so- it's pretty bad." And also because, you know, the entire, entire show is based on hyping up the- this. This portion, right?
C: Yep. Yes.
G: If it's like, anticlimactic, that's fine. If they do it well.
C: But they need to know that it's anticlimactic.
G: Yes, if it's anticlimactic, there needs to be- you know, you need to do the- And I wouldn't even say that it's anticlimactic, necessarily, just that it's stupid.
C: [laughs] Yeah.
G: So yeah. Anyway, the- She steps on War's foot, and War drops the sword, and Pepper picks it up.
C: She's 11. How hard can she stomp?
G: Oh, you'll be surprised. I feel like kids are not aware about how much things hurt and how much they are capable of hurting people, so they'll just put their heart and soul into everything that they do like. Like, they'll punch you, and they'll punch you really hard because they're not aware that, like, when you're punching them, that's like, you're doing a soft one. So they're like, "I'm doing the best I can! And it's going to hurt as much as you when you're doing the soft one on me," so I get this.
C: Fair. Yeah. Regarding your issue with Pepper's line, they cut- This isn't a great line, but I think it's sort of addresses what you said, where before she does the- before she says all the rest of that stuff, she says, like, "I can play with dolls or not play with dolls, just as I can play with swords or not play with swords, but war is stupid." [G laughs] So at least that was a bit clearer. It's not good, though. It's not a good line. I get why they cut it.
G: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, picks up the sword and like, doesn't necessarily stab War, just like, points it in War's direction.
C: Yeah, she catches on fire and explodes on dies.
G: And she says, "I believe in peace, bitch" and explode and die. And Pepper drops the sword.
C: She also says that they're Adam's real friends, which I guess is important.
G: At this point, as Pepper drops the sword, [C laughing] I paused the episode, and I'm laughing so hard, guffawing.
C: Yeah, and I'm still on the Zoom.
G: Yeah, Crystal's still on the Zoom. And I go, "Jesus Christ! That's how she beat War? What, is the next kid gonna pick up the sword and go, 'I believe in a clean earth! Everybody download Ecosia!' [C laughing] and then Pollution will die?" And guess what? [C laughing] Guess what fucking what? Brian, right? Brian picks up the sword and goes, "I believe in a clean world." [C screams] And Pollution just fucking disintegrates.
C: Yup. Just melt into a puddle of oil.
G: Yeah. Wow. He believed in Ecosia enough.
C: I think it's also that the Brian actor is not very good. Like, I was not as annoyed when Wensley did the same thing to Famine, but I feel like Brian was trying too hard.
G: Yeah. 'Cause when Wensley did it, it's like, "Yeah. This kid believes in food and a healthy lunch."
C: Yeah, I believe in that.
G: Yeah. And then I like that he goes, "Actually, it's a very good thing."
C: Yeah. He's cute.
G: Yeah. Have you even mentioned the fact that this is the flaming sword?
C: Well, they don't mention it until after Wensley, so I was gonna bring it up then.
G: Anyway, Aziraphale and Crowley are watching this, and Crowley just goes, "Wait! Isn't that your sword?" And yeah. Boo!
C: No? No? I like it.
G: It's fine.
C: I like that Heaven and Gabriel asked Aziraphale about it so many times, which means that they didn't know that it was like, part of the Plan, which I think like, foreshadows how they were able to be so easily taken in by Aziraphale being like, “Oh, but is the Ineffable Plan the same thing as the Great Plan?" because, like, they outsource that shit, and they don't know all the details, and they don't know that this was Aziraphale’s sword. And I also love that it shows, like, the double edgedness of Aziraphale's first act of kindness, and how introducing the idea of danger to the humans via kicking them out of the garden and then introducing the idea of protection to them also introduces the idea of violence, and that this has like, been here the whole time. Isn't that- Is that not fun at all?
G: Yeah. But the sword sucks. It's doesn't look good in any way. [both laughing]
C: [laughing] That was it? That was the entire "boo"??
G: [laughing] I'm just a hater. I hate this episode.
C: Yeah. We also talked about whether or not giving the sword away was a test and if Aziraphale passed, and I feel like that answers the question, doesn't it?
G: I guess. I mean, okay, I'm being swayed to your area. Like, fine. It's cool that this is the sword.
C: Thank you. [laughs] It's fine.
G: It's fine! [laughs] It's fine.
C: It doesn't look very cool, but I mean, I do like that when you look at the details of it, the metal of it is sort of like, charred, and has like, bits of coal and shit stuck to it, whereas, like, before, it was a lot more immaculate 'cause it's like, "Look at the passage of time!"
G: It's been used, yeah.
C: "Look at the way that it's been corrupted as well by like, War and like, human desires." Isn't that neat?
G: Yeah.
C: [laughs] I can't believe I'm defending this show. It may well be.
G: It may well be.
C: Dog also helps take Famine down with Wensley, which I think is cute.
G: Oh, yeah, the fucking dog! It was cute. I don't even know what my gripes are. I mean, I said the Pepper stuff.
C: It's just very underwhelming.
G: Well, I mean, that's the thing with like, hyping anything up and, like, you know, journey, not the destination, blah blah blah! But specifically, like, this scene, at first I was like, as I said, I was laughing about how like, I thought it was so stupid. And then, upon talking to Crystal, you said, "What's nice is that, you know, they're 11 years old. It's such a child destroying the-"
C: Yeah, the evil monsters under the bed sort of thing. It's a very fairytale approach to it. That makes sense given that that is like, what they believe is true about the world.
G: Yeah. And I guess later on, when it is revealed that it kind of is, like, the world becomes what Adam believes it is, it's like, "Oh, okay, well, this makes sense. It isn't just because they brandished the sword. It's because they believed in it and Adam is there."
C: Yeah, the sword doesn't really matter.
G: Yeah. Well, the thing I wanna say is that, okay, the Horsemen are gone. What does that mean for the world?
C: I don't think they actually died. I think it just means that they're not summoned anymore. They're probably just gonna go back to having their regular jobs.
G: Ah, okay. But why does Death say-
C: Yeah, Death does say that they have "returned to the minds of man," so they probably have lost their physical forms for a little while, but like, I don't think that actually means that that there isn't gonna be War or Famine or anything any more. I think it just means that they're gonna be individuals.
G: Yeah. But then what's the point of having the fucking Horsemen in the first place? Just to summon the Apocalypse?
C: I mean, once they like, take strong physical form and have their objects, like, I'm assuming that they are able to enact more direct damage to the Earth. When they return to the minds of man, they're just more like, a low-grade evil thing.
G: Yeah. I mean, imagine. Centuries, millennia, of just being like, "I'm here for this one thing," and then you get there, and you're so bad at it it's unreal. [C laughs] Yeah.
C: They really are losers, yeah.
G: Yeah. Every adult in this show's a fucking loser.
C: Yeah. What you said about the world being what Adam believes and stuff did make me appreciate the book version of this scene a bit more 'cause what each of char- I think- I didn't really realize that you would like, read it as just like, the power of the sword. But like, yeah, no, that- it does sort of just look like the power of the sword. But like, in the book, each of them makes like, out of like, sticks and like, leaves and stuff, they make their own like, kid version of the item that the Horseman has, so like, a stick sword, and like, a daisy crown or whatever for Pollution and stuff, and then they use that as weapons against the Horsemen, and I think that comes across a lot better, 'cause it is just like, "They’re kids. And this is what they believe." I think the one nice thing about this is just that, like, Hell always planned for Warlock to be alone when the Horsemen arrived, and, like, Adam, could not face them on his own. So it's nice that like, he grew up by himself, and he had friends and was chill, so they're like, doing this together. Good for him. But yeah, it's stupid. And I wish that there is- Like, okay, the Pepper "I believe in peace" thing, there's been some build up for that, sure. But like, it's just- I feel like there wasn't enough character work on the kids to make me believe that this is a strongly-held feeling that they have, especially with Brian regarding believing in a clean world. Like, does he? Okay.
G: Yeah. Because here's the thing. Like, "I believe in peace" does not equate believing in a clean world. Do you know what I mean? Like, "I believe in peace" is like, "I don't want war to happen. I believe that peace is good." But, like, "I believe in a clean world" is like, "There's no Pollution!" [both laugh] Do you know what I mean? That's why it sounds so stupid when you say it like that. The "I believe in food and a healthy lunch" falls more in the category of the "I believe in peace" thing. Like, "I believe in a clean world sounds so stupid." Also, like, I think there is some buildup for Wensley, 'cause he does talk about lunch quite a bit, right?
C: That's true. He really does want to go for lunch.
G: Yeah. Very delicious and very healthy lunch at home.
C: Yeah. Later, in all the shots, Brian's standing off to the fucking edge. Like, he's not even in shot for most of the rest, [G laughs] even though Pepper and Wensley are in the background all the time. So like, they really did not give a shit about that kid. [G laughs]
-
G: Anyway, we go to Hell, and Beelzebub and Dagon are like, up front. All the demons are there. They're all waiting for the signal to go on Earth and start the Apocalypse. [laughs] I love this scene. I love it. Beelzebub tells Dagon to encourage the troops, so he does, and he goes like, "So, you guys, we're going to fight against the army of angels. All of you were angels once, and we fought in this glorious revolution! And we lost. [laughs] But that was then, and we have thousands of years to get tougher."
C: Tougher!
G: Yeah, he's trying to do the thing where it's like, "I say a word, and you say back to me." So it's like, "Tougher, smarter, and more dangerous!"
C: Smarter. More dangerous!
G: And it sounds soo funny. You know, I am a bit sad that we don't see Dagon before this. I think Dagon is so fun.
C: Yeah. Pretty cool.
G: Lord of the Files!
C: Lord of the Files, baby.
G: Beelzebub stops this whole commotion, though, and says that something is wrong because the Apocalypse is, in fact, not happening. So we go back to Anathema and Newt. Anathema just goes like, “Well, if every time you fix the computer it destroys itself, why don't you try fixing this so it'll destroy itself?” And he does, and it works. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. That is an accurate summary of it.
G: That is the fucking punchline to the entire buildup.
C: His whole thing.
G: Yeah. Death is like, over there, standing by himself. And he goes, "Yeah. t's not gonna happen, you guys. I'm not gonna die." And then he disappears.
C: Okay, he says, "Good day, gentlemen," and then Madame Tracy says, "Cheek" and Pepper says "Cheek." Is that because he said gentlemen, and they're the two women who are in the scene at the time? Like, is that what that was about?
G: I didn't read it this that, I guess.
C: What did you read it as? Just like, "Oh, like, he's being full of himself by saying that he'll never die"?
G: Yeah.
C: Okay. I hope it was that. It's weird that they were the two that said "Cheek."
G: Yeah. I get what you mean.
C: I mean, I hope it wasn't that-
G: I hope that's not the intention.
C: - but that would sure be crazy. [G laughs] Neil Gaiman is just like, "Oh, these supernatural beings are sexless, and they don't understand gender. But also, Death is sexist." Like, War is also sexist, but I get that. She was an invention of humanity. But Death cannot be sexist, right? Like, that's actual Death.
G: Yeah. Death disappears.
C: Uglyass visuals.
G: There's like- Oh, by the way, we haven't been talking about the God narrations. They're stupid.
C: It doesn't matter.
G: None of it matters.
C: Like, we already know everything. It's like, yeah, the Them are facing off against the Horsemen. I can see it on my TV screen, God.
G: Anyway, Aziraphale is, you know, having fun. He is quite happy. Like, "Oh my god! You see? It's over."
C: He says, "It' just- It's as I've always said." which [laughs], bro, you did not- you were not always saying this. [G laughing] You tried to shoot an 11-year-old five minutes ago.
G: Literally!
C: You were not saying this. You didn't say any of it. [G laughs]
G: Yeah. Crowley is a bit more apprehensive because, you know, Heaven and Hell still want to duke it out, so she goes to Adam and says, "Yeah. You know, good job for saving the world, etc. But it won't make a difference because, you know. They still want their war." And Anathema comes out, and Newt is also there, and she sees Crowley and Aziraphale, and she's like, “Oh my god! You guys stole my book!” Crowley throws the book back at her, and, I don't know. There's like, a little- a thing that falls out, flies down.
C: Yeah, it's a prophecy scrap.
G: Yeah, Aziraphale catches it. God, Aziraphale looks so good this episode.
C: Good for him.
G: Anathema asks like, the situation, and at first, Crowley and Aziraphale are like, "No, we're not- we're not- It's too long." But she's like, "No, come on." And Aziraphale starts from the very beginning -
C: [laughs] He's so cute.
G: - and starts talking about like, "Oh, like, in the garden, there was a- [both] well, he was a wily old serpent."
C: Aw. "And I was technically on apple tree duty."
G: On apple fucking tree duty.
C: He's soo cute. And the whole time, Crowley's looking at him like, "Man, are you serious?" and then at the end, sort of goes like, "Shh-shh," and like, does like, the choir director gesture to shut your mouth. And I think that they're so cute and also in love.
G: And speaking of in love-
C: God!
G: Adam asks if, you know, Anathema stopped the blowing up the world shit, and she goes, "Yeah. My boyfriend helped me." [C groans]
C: What if we just all died forever.
G: While watching this episode, I tried to examine my heart and soul, and I was like, "You know, maybe I'm judging Newt too harshly, and maybe I shan't- Like, maybe I should accept love in my heart or whatever." [C laughs] And then I woke up the next day, and I decided that I shall never accept Newt ever in my life.
C: Good.
G: Do any of these people show up in Season 2? I doubt it. I don't think it's that kind of season.
C: You'll see, I suppose.
G: Ugh. I hope Newt disappears forever. God.
C: Why would Anathema decide this? What would make her want this? What is even happening? She's not into him. She isn't.
G: I mean, the thing is, I am a firm believer of like, "You know, like, sometimes you can't explain love," blah blah blah. But like, this isn't that, you know? This isn't like, "Oh, they have this inexplicable connection." [C laughs] It's that Neil Gaiman is so bad [laughing] at writing Anathema and Newt.
C: At writing, period.
G: Yeah. So, yeah. I hate it so much.
C: It's the worst.
G: It's like, "Oh, there's a guy. And there's a girl. Oh my god!" You know, it's like that.
C: Can I make it any more obvious?
G: It's so bad, you guys. It's so bad.
C: It's so- And the worst part is when Pepper looks at Anathema and shakes her head and goes, "Another deluded victim of the patriarchy."
G: [laughing] And she is.
C: She- [laughing] she li- Like, it's such- it's like a lamp-shaded, like, "Oh, I know that you guys are gonna like, not like this relationship, so I'm just gonna toss this line in to be like, 'If you don't like this, you're stupid. You're stupid. You're like Pepper saying a stupid sentence. How do you feel about being stupid, huh? Now, accept Anewthema into your heart before I kill you.'" [G laughs] Like, Neil Gaiman, you can just kill me. [both laugh] Anyway. This doesn't matter. Except it does, and I'm so mad. [G laughs]
G: I hate it so much. No, I hate it so much.
C: I just- all of Pepper's things are like, "Oh, isn't it so funny that this-"
G: "I'm a girl! And I'm going to say something that a girl would say." Fuck off.
C: Yeah, "I'm a girl!" But it's more like, "I'm a girl, and my mom is a sociology professor-" and I think the main joke is supposed to be that she uses big words, but it is just like a, "I'm a girl, and I'm against sexism, but I don't actually understand feminism, and everything I say is just to feminism seem stupid!" Like, okay. Thanks, Neil Gaiman.
G: Yeah. And I also don't wanna come off as like, "I hate straight ships," whatever. [C laughing]
C: What?
G: No, that is a concern of mine. But, like, I- [laughs] It's so bad, though, you guys. Like, if you want me to ship a straight ship, why not make it good?
C: Yeah. If you want me to ship a straight ship, why not make it not straight? [G laughs] Yeah. God, they're so boring. They're so boring.
G: It's so bad!
C: Like, it's a fun premise. It's literally like, a witch and a witchfinder, like, the descendant of two people who, like, one of them killed the other one. It's a fun concept. And this is just not- It's not doing anything for me due to how it is bad, and how she's like, literally not into him.
G: Yeah. And like, you know, this could- exact same story, but like- I mean exact same like, script, maybe, but like, they make- like, if they checked for like, "Oh, do these two actors have chemistry?" [C laughs] It's just that they also don't! There's nothing!
C: Yeah. Yeah. Newt's whole thing is just like, "I'm a nervous virgin, and like, this is like, a girl who's hot and in my area." And like, yeah, sure. And Anathema's just not into him!
G: And she's not. She's not, you guys.
C: She's not into him, so I don't get it. Anyway, yeah, she is literally an aromantic lesbian, and I think part of that is because [laughs] her actress isn't very good at having chemistry with Newt's actor. But you know what, it gave me my headcanon, and I'm gonna sit with that headcanon and curse Neil Gaiman and everything. Oh, also, I think the prophecy specifically says, "When all is said and all is done, you must choose your faces wisely, for soon enough you will be playing with fire."
-
C: Alright, so, Gabriel and Beelzebub appear out of- Well, Gabriel's a lightning bolt and Beelzebub rises from the ground. And Beelzebub's Earth look, different from zir Hell one. There's no blood on the face, and there's like, a very fun furry fly hat thing. Gabriel looks the same as ever.
G: By the way, I have a question. 'Cause like, in Heaven, they have gold accents. Does Gabriel have one?
C: I don't think so.
G: Huh. Why is that?
C: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a fashion thing, so he was just like, "Not for me."
G: He DGAF. Yeah, I don't know. I just found, now that I notice that like, "Oh, the only two ones who don't have anything are Gabriel and Aziraphale," and I was trying to think if that means anything. But I don't know. Maybe, probably not.
C: Yeah, I think Gabriel's thing is that he has violet eyes.
G: Yeah, I suppose.
C: Like, that's his his Heaven fashion thing. But yeah, you're right. It is a little odd.
G: Also, I know some spoilers from Season 2.
C: Oh, regarding-
G: Beelzebub? Yeah.
C: And- yeah.
G: Gabriel, yeah. So. First meeting! Is it- are they- I mean, tell me if like-
C: If they're compelling in any way, shape, or form. No. What?
G: Do the fandom like them?
C: Neil Gaiman literally fucking- He needs to log off before he becomes the worst writer [G laughs] that anyone's ever seen.
G: [laughing] That's not my question.
C: And he said that when he originally wrote them, there was like, nothing there, and then he was like, "Oh, but then I saw, like, the way the fandom reacted to them, and then I was like, 'Oh, that could be interesting!' So then I put it in Season 2." Like, log off! Log off! [G laughing] Never darken my Tumblr door step anymore. Like, what's wrong with you? [G laughing] Like, oh, you're just gonna make a fandom crackship canon. Okay. Whatever. Log off! But yeah, they were sort of pair-the-sparesed together after Season 1. I don't- I don't wanna disparage anyone who like, ships them genuinely. Like, go for it. It's an interesting concept, and, I mean, they do seem to have like, a rapport that could be built up after this. Live your life. Neil Gaiman, be fucking for real.
Crowley does like, a fun little mocking curtsy when the two of them appear, and Aziraphale straightens his bow tie. Beelzebub calls Crowley a traitor, and eventually, you know, they go-
G: "That's not a nice word."
C: [laughs] "All the other words I have for you are worse." They go up to Adam, and Gabriel's, very like, brisk, clasping his hands, like, "Hi. Young man. Armageddon must restart right now." and his argument is that this battle is for the greater good. Beelzebub is saying that this is Adam's destiny, "It is written, so start the war." Adam's like, "You both want to end the world just to see whose gang is best?" And Gabriel is like, "Yeah, I mean, it's the Great Plan. It's the point of the creation of the Earth."
G: I found that fascinating that that's the point of the creation of the Earth. Just to be a fucking playground.
C: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It does make me wonder- like, we discussed what the actual Apocalypse was gonna be, and we still don't really know. Like, what was the point of the humans if Earth was just supposed to be the battleground for good and evil or whatever the fuck, right?
G: Yeah. Like, why make life in the first place?
C: Yeah. We don't get a lot of details about that. And it is, like, heavily implied that it's just a battleground, blah blah blah.
G: It's not even, you know, like, last or whatever episode, you said, like, maybe it's like, "The amount of souls that they get influences their power." But then, like, we hear, like, when Dagon was doing the speech, he goes, "All of you used to be angels." So that's not the case.
C: Yeah, yeah. So like, none of the demons are like, humans who went to Hell. Like, those people are not gonna battle it out at all. Yeah. And also, there's the deleted scene I didn't mention last time where Aziraphale possesses like, a televangelist or a radio evangelist, or whatever. And when he's describing the Apocalypse, which I'm assuming is a pretty accurate description, he's just saying that, yeah, like, people are just going to- like, it's just gonna be Heaven and Hell fighting, and he says that like, there's not going to be any rapture. Like, "who has time to go round popping people up in the air to sneer at the people dying below them?" You know, he also says that it's just gonna be fire falling, seas turning to blood. He says, "You lot are all going to be civilian casualties. Whatever side you're on, they're going to kill everyone and let God sort it out." So like, yeah, what was the point of humanity if that-? But like, I mean, I guess these questions are the point, right? The point is that the Apocalypse wasn't supposed to happen, and this was a test of Adam the whole time, right?
G: Yeah. Well, test of Adam?
C: Yeah. What do you think?
G: You think it's a test of Adam?
C: Doesn't it make sense? Like, God sent Jesus to live among the humans. It's the same thing. Like, "Let's send the son of Satan to live among the humans and see if he's able to pick up free will and like, love for the earth." Who do you think it's a test of?
G: I mean, there's the whole apple-eating business at the end. I've been trying to think about it, but not too much, [laughs] 'cause I'm thinking about other things. I mean, my point is like, I did try to think about it, and I'm like, "Man, who even give a shit," and then I stopped thinking about it, hoping that you have thought about it. Let's get into it later.
C: Okay, well, I have, and I've concluded that- Anyway. Yeah, that's the entire reason for the creation of the Earth, etc. And then Beelzebub tries with, "Hey, Adam, like, when all this is over, you're going to get to rule the world. Don't you want to rule the world?" But Adam says-
G: I love the way Beelzebub talks so much. I feel like this is the first episode where I actually got to hear them, like, speak for long, 'cause, I mean, we heard them, I think, in Episode 1, but like, not much!
C: Yeah.
G: Crowley goes to Hell and then talks, and, you know.
C: Yeah, ze says some things.
G: Yeah, some things. But like, this is the first one that's like, you know, prolonged speaking. Oh, and what a lovely speech pattern! And like, my first thought was like, "Maybe Crowley got the drama from somewhere."
C: Maybe so. Adam goes, "It's hard enough having to think of things for Pepper and Wensley and Brian to do all the time so they don't get bored. I've got all the world I want."
G: That's such a funny fucking line. I love it so much.
C: And okay, these are like, Adam's two lines here are, you know, like, "All the world I want" and earlier, "You just want to see whose gang is best," and that is- Neil Gaiman cut a lot. Adam's speech in the book is way way way longer. Like, his first thing, before he gets to this point is about like, "'I don't see why everything has to be destroyed. Like, even if you win, you can't really beat the other side, because you don't really want to. I mean, not for good. You'll just start all over again. You'll just keep on sending people like these two,' he pointed to Crowley and Aziraphale, 'to mess people around. It's hard enough being people as it is, without other people coming and messing you around.'" which, like, I think some of that is covered in Aziraphale’s speech to the angels, like, before they try to Fall him or discorporate him or whatever. So sure. Okay, we have some of that. I think it's unfortunate that it was given to a not-human character when it it's like, meant to be a book about humanism, whatever. Then he goes on and says some shit about how, like, "Anyway, if you stop telling people it's all sorted out after they're dead, they might try sorting it all out while they're alive. If I was in charge, I'd try making people live a lot longer, like ole Methuselah. It'd be a lot more interesting, and they might start thinking about the sort of things they're doing to all the environment and ecology, because they'll still be around in a hundred years." So like, he cut that. It's nice to have to let Adam have a moment, and it's unfortunate that he didn't. So then, after that, in the book and in the show, Gabriel and the Beelzebub are talking about how "You can't just refuse your birth, your destiny." Blah blah blah. And Adam first says like, "I'm not rebelling against anything. I'm pointing out things. Seems to me you can't blame people for pointing out things. Seems to me it'd be a lot better not to start fighting and just see what people do. If you stop messing them about, they might start thinking properly, and they might stop messing the world about. I'm not saying they would, but they might." So like, again, nice that he gets time. Back to show, right? So Aziraphale goes up and stands behind Adam's shoulder and says, "Excuse me. You keep talking about the Great Plan. One thing I'm not clear on, is that the Ineffable Plan?" And Gabriel and Beelzebub start looking confused, and Beelzebub goes, "The Great Plan. It izz written. There shall be a world, and it shall last for 6000 years and end in fire and flame." And Aziraphale again is like, "Okay, yeah, yeah, that's the Great Plan. But like, is that also the Ineffable Plan?" And Crowley realizes-
G: In the back, yeah.
C: - what Aziraphale is going for. And then she goes up and stands behind Adam's other shoulder, and doing her fun little stammering thing the whole time, is like, "Well, it would be a pity if you thought you were doing what the Great Plan said, but you were actually going directly against God's Ineffable Plan. I mean, everyone knows the Great Plan, yeah? And then it cuts to Anathema nodding and Newt shaking his head, which I thought was fun. And then they go, "But the Ineffable Plan is- well, it's ineffable, isn't it? By definition we can't know it." Gabriel and Beelzebub, getting confused at this. And Gabriel goes, "God does not play games with the universe." [both] And Crowley goes, "Where have you been?" And, okay, here is where there's a line that I'm so angry Neil Gaiman cut. So Adam, okay, after Crowley says this, book goes, "Everyone found their eyes turning toward Adam. He seemed to be thinking very carefully. Then, he said, 'I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out.' A breeze swept across the airfield. Overhead, the assembled host rippled like a mirage. There was the kind of silence there might have been on the day before creation. Adam stood smiling at the two of them, a small figure perfectly poised exactly between Heaven and Hell." And then this is when the Metatron in the book- who's, instead of Gabriel- this is when the Metatron and Beelzebub are like, "Okay, let's go back to head office and hash this out." Like, Neil Gaiman cutting this line, like, completely changes, like, the tone of this scene, right? Like, in the book like, this is the convincing line. Like, "It doesn't matter what is written. If it's about humans, it can always be crossed out in the show." But in the show, it's just like, "Haha! Funny! They're like, confused about like, bureaucracy and titles of things." Like, who give a shit?
G: Yeah, I mean, because the thing is, I've brought up constantly that this show is playing with, you know, themes of- what's that? [both] Free will, fate, whatever whatever. And, you know, [laughs] like, the whole like, "Well, I mean, the actual plan is different from the plan that you were told, so like-" It doesn't fly with me. Like, when it was said, I was like, "Oh, Jesus fucking Christ." So I think if they put that Adam line in there, I would like it so, so, so, so much more. Yeah.
C: Yeah. So would I! So would I, Grey. I would also like it a lot more.
G: What they're trying to say here is that, "Oh, you think this is the plan. But actually, it isn't. And you're wrong about which plan there is."
C: "God is confusing, and you don't get it."
G: Yeah, the whole point should be like, "It doesn't matter if there's a plan. Like, it doesn't matter."
C: Yeah. Yeah.
G: Oh, they character assassinated my little boy.
C: They did. They character assassinated Adam. Like, god. I just can't believe Neil Gaiman, a writer who claims to have an understanding of things like theme, [G laughs] would just completely misunderstand what he wrote in the first place or decide to rewrite it into a way less interesting and way worse version. Like, you fucked everything by taking that line out, Neil Gaiman!
G: Probably.
C: It's so, so, so so so annoying. The only interesting thing about- Okay, so yeah, basically, you know, the two of them, Gabriel and Beelzebub, they like, have a word in private, and they're like, "Ah, shit. We're gonna have to call off the war. Imagine how annoying that's gonna be for both of us." blah blah blah. But I am sort of interested in how both sides still are doing things according to the Plan. Like, Hell didn't lose faith in God. They just don't really like how Heaven operates. Like, they don't even have an issue with any of God's plans. They aren't trying to go against them. They're like, once they think they're going against God's plans, they stop doing the thing. That's like, interesting, I guess.
G: Yeah, I think it is interesting, and it also distinctly separates Crowley and Aziraphale from the lot. And by "the lot," I mean angels and demons alike.
C: Yeah. It does. Yup.
G: Except [laughs], the way they do it in the TV show is so bad! Now I understand what you're saying. Like, "Don't you think it's a test of Adam?" And it's like, yeah! I mean, if it was the book, like, yeah, it's a test of Adam. But like, literally, in the TV show, it's a test of Aziraphale, like, we've been saying this. And I feel like that does make it a weaker story.
C: That's true. Yeah. Yeah, it does. Ah! So-
G: Whatever.
C: Whateber. So Gabe turns back around and goes, “Well, at least we know whose fault it is!”
G: And then they give a little wave!
C: Yeah. Yeah. Aziraphale does a cute little wave, and Crowley does like, a grimace grin, and Adam just stands there. They're cute. And, you know, Gabriel and Beelzebub finish up with, "Young man. You were put on this earth for one reason and one reason only. To end it! You're a disobedient little brat, and I hope someone tells your father." and Beelzebub informs everyone that they will tell his father, and his father will not be pleased. Great-
G: Who told- [both laughing]
C: Okay, so Beelzebub just insta-send messages to Satan, or...
G: Yeah.
C: Grey, I'm giving you an opening!
G: No! [laughing] I don't even know how to do it?
C: What?
G: Man, who told that fucking journalist? [both laughing]
C: I know, but I was like, talking over you, so I thought you might want a clean take-
G: [laughing] I think this joke is too inside. This joke is too inside to make any sense to anyone. [C laughs]
C: Okay, you know the point- the point of us saying this on the podcast is just so that we can like, post the video on our Tumblr-
G: Continue referencing it. Yeah. [laughs]
C: Okay, guys, we're gonna post a link to a YouTube video on our Tumblr [G laughing], and it's going to be a comparison of two scenes of David Tennant playing like, Alec Hardy, or whatever his name is- yeah, Alec Hardy in Broadchurch, and then in the American remake of Broadchurch, called Gracepoint. It's gonna be 26 minutes- sorry. 26 seconds.
G: 26 seconds long!
C: Sorry, it's gonna be 26 seconds long. I encourage everyone, especially people who have American accents, to watch it. [G laughing]
G: It is the funniest 26 seconds you will ever spend in your life. [C laughs] Yeah. "Who told that jurnalist?"
C: Grey and I independently changed our Discord statuses to the same line in that video-
G: At the same time!
C: - it's soo funny! What if it's not even funny? [laughing] Okay, everyone, if you watch it, you have to go into our inbox and tell that it's the funniest thing ever. Thank you! [G laughs]
G: No, but like, the thing is, the family's lives are destroyed, and we screw it up and make it worse! [both laughing] It's so bad! Oh, god.
C: Okay. Anyway! So, so, so. Okay, so Gabriel and Beelzebub disappear. And then there's another interaction between Anathema and Adam this time that's in the book that Neil Gaiman cut, and I don't like it. I don't like that they cut it. So that scene goes, "'But you can't just leave it at that! said Anathema, pushing forward. 'Think of all the things you could do! Good things.' 'Like what?' said Adam suspiciously. 'Well, you could bring all the whales back, to start with.' He put his head on one side. 'And that'd stopped people killing them?' She hesitated. It would have been nice to say yes. 'And if people do start killing 'em, what would you ask me to do about 'em?' said Adam. 'No. I reckon I'm gettin' the hang of this now. Once I start messing around like that, there'd be no stopping it. Seems to me the only sensible thing is for people to know if they kill a whale, they've got a dead whale.'" It's a nice interaction. I just- of all the things I listed, definitely want the "It can be crossed out if it's about humans." Everything else, I can take or leave, but I just think that, like, in terms of how you're allocating time during the episode, like, just give Adam more lines. He can just have any of the ones in the book. There's a plethora of lines in the book you could just give him so that he has more screentime so that this is about free will and humanity and the Apocalypse instead of about just anything else. How Neil Gaiman thinks he's so smart for doing a body swap. You know? You know? You know? That'd be nice. Like, he had enough time to just throw in Anathema going, "There are no volcanoes in England!" but like, he doesn't have time for any of the rest of this shit. Like, fuck off. It's not even funny. It's not funny!
G: I mean, the thing, I think the main mistake is that- I wouldn't call it mistake. I like that it happened. Whatever. The main thing, the main difference would be that the book is about themes and motifs and whatnot, it appears to be, I guess, but the show is about Aziraphale and Crowley. If you wanted to make a show about Aziraphale and Crowley, then just write a different story. Like, write a before the Apocalypse or after the Apocalypse story.
C: Maybe you'll like, Season 2.
G: [laughs] Shut up. No, but the thing is like, if you're trying to write this story, and then you decide 30 years into it being written that, "Oh, I'm going to make it about just mostly about these two specific characters specifically," it becomes, like, it comes with diminishing the other characters in the story. So now, instead of like, having a full body of a story, it's like, there's this good parts, and then we're skipping through the ones that are bad. We're like, fucking pushing through with it. And that is very much what this episode feels like. Like, we're just pushing through with the Adam scenes and the Anathema scenes and the Shadwell and Tracy scenes. Because, like, "Oh, we need to go back to the Aziraphale and Crowley stuff." It's like, "Why don't you just make everything good?" [C laughing] Just make everything good, you know?
C: Yeah. That'd be nice. I would like if everything was good. Oh well.
G: Just kill Newt, Neil Gaiman. [C laughs] You can do it. Like, what if Satan, like, rose from the depths of Hell and then just killed Newt? [C laughing] And then the rest of the scene happened, and then he, you know, erupts into flames or whatever? But Newt is dead! Perma-dead, even.
C: Yeah. What if?
G: Adam doesn't bother to bring him back, yeah.
C: Yeah. Maybe Shadwell can also be caught by a stray flame, you know? If we're dreaming big.
G: I mean, they perma-killed Ligur, I believe.
C: They did, I think. Or else it would've been him bringing the hellfire up.
G: Yeah, or like, he would be in the trial. They should have fucking perma-killed that- I'm such a hater. [C laughs] I'm so sorry. Are there people who genuinely like Newt?
C: Yeah, I think so.
G: Ugh. Why?
C: I think that he- doesn't he have like, a certain brand of like, white boy charm that some people are into? Like, some people like, when men are bubbling-
G: I feel so bad for straight girls. [C laughing] I feel so bad for them. Am I allowed to say that? Is that so condescending? I mean that genuinely. I do feel bad for them. [both laughing]
C: [laughing] Does that not make- Does that make it less or more condescending? [G laughs] I mean, I'm sure there are girls who aren't straight who are into him.
G: Yeah. But at least they have other options.
C: Yeah. Straight girls also have other options. There's other men out there.
G: Yeah, but if you like Newt... It's over for you. [both laughing]
C: So the ground starts shaking. Crowley's hit with like, a sudden burst of pain and falls to the floor. And they can sense that Satan's coming up. And we have a horrible moment with Shadwell and Tracy where he's like, "If anyone wants to hurt the w-slur of Babylon, they're gonna have to get past me!" and she's like, so into it, and going like, "Oh, Mr. Shadwell!" and clutching onto him and shit. Crowley says that like, "There is nothing we can do about this." Okay, let me find the specific line. Okay, well, first he goes to Aziraphale, like, "Well, that was that. It was nice knowing you." And Aziraphale says, “We can't give up now.” And Crowley says, “This is Satan himself. It isn't about Armageddon. This is personal. We are fucked!” And she's looking up at Aziraphale with her big yellow serpent doe eyes, and then Aziraphale picks up his flaming sword-
G: His sword. It's not flaming yet.
C: Okay, his not flaming sword. and he goes, "Come up with something, or..." and then he raises his sword, which he previously had by his side, and Crowley looks at him with like, this disbelieving expression on his face, and then Aziraphale lowers the sword and goes, "Or I'm never gonna talk to you-" or "I'll never talk to you again." And you had some thoughts about this.
G: I mean, my thoughts were, "Wow! That sure did happen." [C laughs]
C: Nothing else? Okay. Well.
G: What are your thoughts? And I'll cheers to it or something.
C: I, okay, I would first like to point out the deviations from the script here, because what it says in the script is, "Aziraphale picks up the sword from the ground, and holds it awkwardly, as if it might go off. He’s not threatening Crowley with it, just making his point that he can do dangerous out-of-character things if he needs to." And then it goes, "Aziraphale: Come up with something, or . . . Or I’m never going to talk to you again." And then it goes, "Crowley nods. That one hurts. What the hell. Crowley snaps his fingers . . . and time stops." But he is threatening them with it in the show. Like, it's not just holding the sword awkwardly. He raises it on the "or" before putting it back down. Like, it is like, a very quick second of like, "Oh, god! Like, obviously, I can't actually do this." But he does raise the sword! Like, that sure does happen. And, well. Wow!
G: Oh! I remember why you think I have something to say about it is because I did say something to you about it, which is that I cannot imagine like, Crowley after this still being like, "Yeah, we're fine." I said that, right? Well.
C: Yeah. You said that- did you say something specific about how there's no way he comes out of this thinking that Aziraphale loves him or something?
G: Yeah, I think that's what I said, yeah.
C: And you still feel that way?
G: I don't know.
C: Honestly, I find it more hurtful that Aziraphale wouldn't let her have her moment with the car than this. [laughs] Like, this barely is a blip on my radar.
G: I mean, they need to do a lot of talking. Lots of talking. And they won't even fucking do it! There's ask that we received that I've been thinking about a lot. The one that asked like, "Oh, isn't it so wild that Aziraphale and Crowley will just have a fight and then, like, never talk about it ever, and then, like, somehow, they're fine still?" And you said that like, the way they are with their head offices and stuff is like, they'll tell head office something, and then head office will go like, "Okay" or "Boo" or whatever, but like, there's no like, actual way to like, redeem yourself or whatever, so it's very much a "We have a disagreement. Let's not talk for a while." And then we talk again. "Fine. I don't really care about the disagreement anymore. Let's proceed." And I was thinking about that, and then I was thinking about how Crowley does say sorry in Episode 4, but it's not- It's not understood. It's not a "sorry" that is like, "I did something wrong, and I understand, and this is how we fix it." It's still in the vein of, "Let's just put it aside. Let's just- let's just forget about it."
C: Yeah. "Whatever I said, I didn't mean it." Like, you probably did, though.
G: Yeah. And this one, the "Come up with something, or I'll never talk to you again." I don't think Aziraphale means it, but it's the fact that it is said to hurt Crowley. Like, that is the point, right? Like, this is said to be like, "I will hurt you. I have the ability to hurt you, and I will do it if you don't do this." And like, whether it will actually be done or not, that's not the point. The point is the threat. And, I don't know. These are just threads. I have no point to make. It's just-
C: Yeah. Nor do I. Yeah, this is like, "Well, what's the worst thing I could do to them? This." Which is, wow.
G: And the answer is just "never talk to you again."
C: Yeah. The last time I had a conversation about this was like, four years ago or something. And I think one of my friends was like, “And Aziraphale was so mean in that scene,” and I was like, so lost in the Aziraphale sauce that I was like, "Well, he's just stating a fact. [laughs] If they all die, they really can't talk to each other again." I don't think that's true. Or, I mean, it is true, but I don't think that's what he meant. But like, it does make me think about the prescriptive versus descriptive argument for the Garden of Eden, where God tells, like, Adam and Eve like, "If you eat the fruit, you'll die." And like, people's like, debate is like, "Does God mean that like, 'This is just gonna happen as a side effect of the fruit,' or 'Me, upon knowing you eat the fruit, will cause it so that you will die.'" So that's the like- second one's prescriptive, first one's descriptive. And like, this is like, a debate, or like, a conversation we had in like, my Biblical literature class, but like, in the end, it doesn't really matter, 'cause like, God made the fruit and the garden and all that stuff. And yeah, I think that in the end, it doesn't really matter what Aziraphale meant by there 'cause either way, it's still shitty and terrible. But also like, whatever. I honestly don't think Crowley cares about this that much. Like, you think that it hurts her very deeply.
G: I don't think very deeply. Like, the thing is like, the both of them are like, so good with just brushing things off, right? I do- I don't want to say I don't care, but like, I care more about the fact that Aziraphale was like, "I am going to say something hurtful" than, like, whether Crowley was actually hurt. I think the reason why I like Aziraphale so much is because I feel like there is no apprehension in making him mean. He is quite mean, isn't he?
C: Yeah.
G: I like that. [laughing]
C: We got an ask recently that was like, "Does Aziraphale think Crowley's that self-loathing?" And my answer, I was like, "Well, if Aziraphale thought that Crowley, like, hated themself for being a demon, like, surely, he wouldn't say all that shit, right?" But like, [laughs] maybe he would. Maybe he would still say all that shit.
G: Wwe've been doing a whole lot of "When you're, you know, in distress, you do a lot of things out of character." Is it even, you know?
C: Is it even.
G: I know that by the end of Season 2, Aziraphale- I don't actually know what happens at the end of Season 2. I don't know the lead-up to it or whatever.
C: There's not.
G: I don't even know if this is true, I'm just saying it, but I think Aziraphale leaves Crowley. I don't know if that is the truth. Maybe Crowley leaves Aziraphale. Either way, they separate.
C: I'd say that both of them would have different answers to that question.
G: Every single time I come across anything from that episode, Season 2, Episode 6, it's always like, "Aziraphale does something or says something unbelievably mean" or like, severely misunderstanding the situation, or like, stupid or whatever. And it's like, "Yeah." I'm not trying to say that he's a bad person. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying that, like, people are complex, and I like that he's complex. I think where the crux of this comes from is that he is the angel in the relationship. 'Cause, like, the thing with Crowley, is like, "Oh, Crowley's a demon, but we're trying to prove that Crowley is, you know, good and all that."
C: Yeah. Like, I already knew that, like, day one. Like, you don't have to keep working so hard on that.
G: Yeah, but like, with Aziraphale, it's kind of the opposite thing, right? Like, "Oh, here's an angel, but we have to prove that the angel has bad qualities and stuff." And the thing is like, if we're talking like, bad qualities in terms of the Catholic sense or whatever [C laughs], the fact that he's a hedonist, well, pretty- I mean, yeah. But like, it doesn't flow now to us as our like, modern understanding of good and bad. So Aziraphale does actually have to do things that are bad. I don't know. I mean, from what I understand, we'll see more of this in Season 2, and I'm really looking forward to it! Who would have thought?
C: We'll see. We'll see.
G: Yeah, no? Do you think the the meanness is out of character in Season 2?
C: I don't know. I think that there's an insufficient buildup to whatever his mindset is at the end. [G sighs] But, you know, insufficient buildup to the finales is what Neil Gaiman's all about, baby! So Aziraphale literally said, "Come up with something, or I'll never talk to you again." Ahh! And Crowley stops time. So let's take a little- a little minute, a little minute to compare this scene to the one in the book. I- You're not even gonna have to read the book after this podcast. I literally read aloud every passage that's better. Like, the rest of it- the rest of the book is just like, jokes that aren't funny. [laughs] So-
G: I mean, you didn't- Oh, by the way, I started reading the book, for the audience. You didn't even say one of my favorite lines I've come across so far.
C: Which one?
G: Which is that, "Why are we even talking about Heaven and Hell. These are just words. Like, we both know this is fake." Yeah. "We know that." I like that part so much.
C: Yeah, it's a good line. Yeah. Anyway, so in the book, like, the two of them have like, run to the jeep, and Crowley's like, trying to get away. So it goes:
In the jeep, Crowley was cursing. Aziraphale laid a hand on his shoulder.
"There are humans here," he said.
"Yes," said Crowley. "And me."
"I mean we shouldn't let this happen to them."
"Well, what-" Crowley began, and stopped.
"I mean, when you think about it, we've got them into enough trouble as it is. You and me. Over the years. What with one thing and another."
"We were only doing our jobs," muttered Crowley.
"Yes. So what? Lots of people in history have only done their jobs and look at the trouble they caused."
"You don't mean we should actually try to stop Him?"
"What have you got to lose?"
Crowley started to argue, and realized that he hadn't anything. There was nothing he could lose that he hadn't lost already. They couldn't do anything worse to him than he had coming to him already. He felt free at last.
He also felt under the seat and found a tire iron. It wouldn't be any good, but then, nothing would. In fact it'd be much more terrible facing the Adversary with anything like a decent weapon. That way you might have a bit of hope, which would make it worse.
Aziraphale picked up the sword lately dropped by War, and hefted its weight thoughtfully.
That's it. That's in the book. He's perfectly niceys in the book. He has a good line!
G: Wait, which- what- What's the replacement?
C: This is like, how Aziraphale convinces Crowley to do something in the book.
G: [laughing] What is Neil Gaiman doing? [both laughing] Wwell, I mean, okay, fine.
C: It's more dramatic. It's more like, fun for the screen, for the whatever. I get that. But like, "There are humans here. And, I mean, we shouldn't let this happen to them."! What a nice Aziraphale moment!
G: I mean, I don't know who brought it up. Was it- was there recently an ask about how, like, there's no humans in Good Omens that matter? [laughs]
C: Yeah, I think we did.
G: Yeah. Another thing that I've been thinking about. Because, like, they do not give a single shit about anyone. [C laughs] I think we've had this conversation last episode. I mean, I'm not saying that they should like, love people, whatever. But they should a little bit. [laughs] They should a little bit!
C: I mean, Crowley says, "Lovely, clever humans inventing cars and windshields. They didn't have any cars back in the fourteenth century." [G laughs]
G: Yeah. I suppose so!
C: Yeah, okay, and second- second thing. So, in the book. like, after Crowley gets convinced to stay behind and fight- you know, in the show they have him say, "Nice knowing you," and later, the rest of the lines that are said here get transposed to the ending scene of this episode, but in the book, they're about to face Satan, and this is when we get:
Aziraphale smiled at Crowley.
"I'd just like to say," he said, "if we don't get out of this, that...I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you."
"That's right," said Crowley bitterly. "Make my day."
Aziraphale held out his hand.
"Nice knowing you," he said.
Crowley took it.
"Here's to the next time," he said. "And . . . Aziraphale?"
"Yes."
"Just remember I'll have known that, deep down inside, you were just enough of a bastard to be worth liking."
So okay, I wanna I wanna point out the difference mostly in Aziraphale’s lines, right? So in the show, he says, “I'd like to think none of this would have worked out if you weren't, at heart, just a little bit a good person.” In the book, “If we don't get out of this, I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you.” And the way that sentence structure works is that the "deep down inside" refers to “I'll have known,” not to the spark of goodness in Crowley, which means “This wouldn't have worked unless I knew, despite all my protestations and all of that, unless deep down inside, I understood that you are a good person,” which is quite different, than "if you were just sort of a good person." Like, you understand, right? Like, this is very different.
G: Yeah.
C: Like, the book one is about how Aziraphale was able to like, bring himself to trust Crowley.
G: "It's about me believing in you." Yeah. Yeah. You cannot see me right now. [laughs] I am holding my head in my hands. [both laugh] [G screams]
C: Yeah. Yeah.
G: So horrible. Everything is so horrible.
C: I don't hate the show version. I think it can be nice in its own way. It's like a fun, little- 'cause everything's done, right? Like, they're not facing death. And it's just like, a fun little teasing thing of like, "Well, you know, you keep saying you're not nice. But hey, look at you! Look at what happened. Maybe, now that no one's keeping score, you can finally accept the compliment that I think you're a nice person." That's fine, but like, I am very fond of the book version, too, and I'm sad it didn't happen. Crowley's line is basically the same, except the show changes are "worth liking" to "worth knowing." Everyone has made the "Biblically?" jokes already, so [both laugh] I have nothing else to say on that one. God, though. She literally would be appalled if she ever saw him try to be a saint, they wouldn't fall for someone they thought couldn't misbehave. "Nobody" by Hozier is really the song of all time.
Crowley, Aziraphale, and Adam end up in like, this, like, white plane of existence where time has stopped, and we see that Aziraphale and Crowley's wings are out.
G: Aziraphale does a neck crack.
C: Yeah, which we have both spoken about privately. [both laughing]
G: Sure did!
C: Sure did. Crowley has black wings, Aziraphale has white wings. They look okay.
G: Yeah.
C: Supernatural had the right idea when they did the shadows. Crowley puts on their sunglasses before talking to Adam, which I think is nice. Oh, also sad, but mostly nice. It's like, "Aw, I mean, like, you're a human. You're a kid, and I want you to be comfortable in this space when I'm talking to you, so I'll put my eyes away." Sorry, babe, but that was nice of you to do. She tells Adam like, "Hey. Your father's coming to destroy you, to destroy all of us." And Adam's like, "What? My dad wouldn't hurt anyone," but Crowley clarifies that this is Satan. And Adam's like, "I don't think I can fight him. I'm just a kid. I don't know what to come up with." And Aziraphale says his line about how it's not a bad thing to be a kid. "I was scared you'd be Hell incarnate. I hoped you'd be Heaven incarnate. But you aren't either of those things. You're better than that. You're human incarnate." And Crowley is like, "Okay, I'm gonna unstop time. Reality is gonna listen to you. You have to come up with a plan. You have to do it fast." And Aziraphale goes, "Whatever happens, for good or for evil, we're beside y-" You tried to kill him ten minutes ago! [both laughing] You tried to shoot a brick at him! Like, they each take one of Adam's hands, and it's like, none of this is fucking earned! Aziraphale, you tried to kill him. Crowley, you went over and went, "That's the one. Shoot him, Aziraphale!" Like, why would Adam trust you? Why did you-
G: I can't believe that so many of my predictions came true, but like, not in any way meaningful or fruitful or satisfying. You know what I mean? It's like, none this fucking matters, dude!
C: Like, yeah, he shot, and it does not matter. No one give a shit.
G: Yeah, now they're trying to protect this kid, but it doesn't matter. There's no emotional payoff!
C: It's stupid. It's stuupid. It's so, so stupid. Crowley uses her tire iron. Aziraphale uses his sword. And they sort of- they just crank reality back to present day, present time. Woohoo! Satan rises up from the ground. He's like, some big ole giant, red skinned, horned, like, ten horns on his head guy.
G: I was like, "This is Benedict Cumberbatch."
C: That's what Benedict Cumberbatch looks like.
G: And then I heard the voice, and it's like, this is not Benedict Cumberbatch!
C: It doesn't sound like him. Like, there's- you could've cast anybody to say this.
G: You could have cast Logan Roy again as Satan.
C: You could have cast me. Like, there's enough voice filters for it to work. I mean, obviously, like, we'd get the discourse about Satan being trans [G laughs], but like, maybe there'd be enough voice filters that you can't tell. So it's all like, "Where's my rebellious son? Come here!" blah blah blah. And Adam walks up to him, and is like, "You're not my dad. Dads don't wait until you're 11 to say hello, and then turn up to tell you off. If I'm in trouble with my dad, that it won't be you. It's going to be the dad who stepped up!" [both laughing] he finishes writing on his T-shirt, and then hands it to Mr. Young. [both laughing] God, it's so fucking stupid! It's so fuucking stupid. Like, why would you at the last minute turn this into like, the dad who went out for cigarettes and newspaper and never came back sort of situation? We don't even see Adam interact with his dad, like, basically at all. Like, I have no clue how that relationship is. Like, does he even give a shit? Apparently, he does, according to what he's saying now, but like, there was no build up to this whatsoever. Like, there was no like, paralleling Satan with an absentee father thing. There was no strengthening of Adam and Mr. Young's relationship. If anything, the only parent we see Adam talk to solo is his mom, and also when he's like, having his big ole screaming match up in the sky, the thing that finally- the last thing that brings him back to reality is his mom saying, "Hello, Adam!" to him when he was a baby. Like, if you're gonna rely on any kind of parental relationship, neither of which has been strengthened during this show, to be like, what causes Adam to rewrite reality and poof Satan out, like, just, either use his mom or give like, some of his mom scenes to his dad.
G: Yeah. You know, maybe they should have made Lucifer transgender. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. So true! Do we even see Adam talk to his dad after this? Like, besides Mr. Young showing up and being like, "What's going on?" Exactly. It's just him talking to his mom, again! Like, what is- he should at least have a moment where he's like, looking at Mr. Young for longer than one would assume, and then says, like, "Thanks, Dad," or something, you know? Like, that's just like, how it would work in writing.
G: Even during the birth scene, right? We're supposed to think that Mr. Young was like, this kind of like, removed a little bit, like, he doesn't really want to be there when his wife gives birth. And then the scenes that we do see them together in, like, it's his mom who visits him in his room, and like, the only time they talk, I think, was when he was dismissing Adam. Yeah. Dismissing Adam while being like, "Yeah, it doesn't matter, Adam. I'm just gonna keep on watching TV."
C: Yeah, like, was he really the dad who stepped up? [G laughs]
G: That truly is such a fucking shirt.
C: Yeah, okay, to clarify for the audience, he doesn't say "It's gonna be the dad who stepped up." [both laugh] He said, "It's gonna be the dad who was there." [laughing] But he may as well have said "It's gonna be the dad who stepped up." Stupid as shit. [G laughing]
G: Yeah. Basically, at the end, he goes, "You are not my dad. [both] You never were." And that's the thing that, yeah.
C: Satan screams and explodes and dies 'cause Adam rewrote the past.
G: Asplodes and dies.
C: Yeah, 'cause Aziraphale goes- Okay, so basically, when the smoke clears, Mr. Young shows up and Aziraphale's like, "That's not really his father." Fuck off, Aziraphale. And then Crowley goes, "Well, it is. It is now. And it always was. He did it." And the scene ends with Mr. Young coming out of the car and going like, "Juh? Would anyone here care to explain to me what exactly is going on." And then, yeah, so that was the first 24 minutes of this episode. My review is that it was underwhelming and not funnay.
G: Not funnay.
C: Like, all of these "You're not my dad" lines are new. Like, they took away all the good ones in the book and just went- and just put this shit in.
G: Wait. Satan shows up in the book? No?
C: No, it's just- Mr. Young just shows up 'cause Adam already did the work inside of his head. [laughs]
G: Damn. Alright. [laughing]
C: They wanted to give Benedict Cumberbatch money soo bad. They wanted to cut him a giant, fat check for doing nothing soo bad.
G: So there literally is no Satan? There's no Satan in the book?
C: Like, he talks on the radio one time.
G: Well, yeah, but we don't see.
C: No.
G: Is there Gabriel? 'Cause you said there was Metatron.
C: Yeah, the Metatron shows up for this. The rest of it, there's no Gabriel.
G: At all?
C: No. Heaven doesn't check in on Aziraphale. [laughs] They let him do whatever the fuck he wants.
G: Oh, yeah, I heard that. Yeah. Well.
-
G: We go to Aziraphale and Crowley outside, and they're sitting on a bench, and it is your typical Aziraphale and Crowley bench positioning, where-
C: Yeah, there's a box between them.
G: Yeah, Aziraphale's on the left. manicured hands on the lap, and Crowley is just, yeah, sprawled out a little bit.
C: Before you say the first line, I want to say that they cut some lines in the script that I would have liked. Okay, first, before Aziraphale says what he says on the show, he says, "I'm sorry about the car. I know how much you liked it. Perhaps if you concentrated really hard..." and Crowley goes, "It wouldn't be the same. I had it from new, you know." And Aziraphale goes, "I do. Yes." And I get why they cut it. It sort of like, messes with the pacing. Would have been nice to have him acknowledge that he was being a bit pushy during the the soldier car scene, and that he actually does care that Crowley cares about the Bentley. Would have been a nice thing for my girl to hear. And I think it helps make up for some of the sword shit. Like, he's not apologizing directly for what he did, but there is like, a general vibe of like, "I still care about you as a person. It's not just about your time stop ability and shit."
G: In the end of show, the first line is Aziraphale saying, "It's all worked out for the best, though. Just imagine how awful it might have been if we'd been at all competent."
C: Real.
G: It's quite funny. I remember one time, I joked here that like, "Does Heaven really think that Aziraphale is so incompetent. [overlapping] They better, 'cause he is." [both laugh] Yeah. They better, because he is! And, you know what? I think he may as well be. And then they ponder over the prophecy that Aziraphale caught in the air, and yeah, they're just talking, and also, they're drinking wine, and they're passing it back and forth to each other. Which I thought was nice. I thought it was nice.
C: I did think it was nice. Also, in the script, it says Aziraphale wipes like, the mouth of the glass or the mouth of the bottle before he passes it back to Crowley, but he doesn't in the show. So, win. [laughs] Win for gay people everywhere
G: At some point, I was trying to monitor the wine, but like, at some point, I couldn't see it. I think they did an error in the-
C: I think they put it- or I think Aziraphale might put it down on the ground when he's handing the package back.
G: Crowley, very, very- every time Crowley says, "Angel," I'm like, "Aww!" But like, this specific scene... Jesus Christ.
C: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Mm.
G: She goes, "Angel, what if the Almighty planned it like this all along?"
C: And it really is a testament to how beautiful Crowley looks in this scene, that, like, I didn't immediately like, be angry at this line. [laughing] I was too busy looking at her neck and all that. But yeah. God. And they really do use the softest, gentlest, fondest fucking voice at this. And like, they're just fully looking at Aziraphale, head stretched back, all that shit. And, agh. I honestly didn't have a strong opinion on like, the free will stuff of Good Omens until our Episode 3 recording when you quoted “Jenny,” but like, now that you have, it's like, "Well, I don't like that that much."
G: I cannot wait for when Season 2 happens, and that all falls completely to pieces because God is also narrating that shit. Yeah. I don't know. Like, this whole conversation, what did you think of it? "Did the Almighty plan it all along?" Oh, yeah. So Crowley goes, "What if the Almighty planned it like this all along?" And Aziraphale's like, "Yeah, could have." "From the very beginning?" And "I wouldn't put it past her." The way I want to interpret this is, they're not saying that like, this is- This not like, a reveal of faith, you know? It's not like, "This is what I believe in, and I'm telling you about it." This is kind of like, maybe Aziraphale is- Maybe Crowley is sensing that Aziraphale is a bit upset and like, something, maybe.
C: Oh, really? Okay. Upset about what?
G: And it's like, "Hey, you know." I don't know!
C: I don't think he's upset.
G: I mean, look at- look at Aziraphale’s face in this scene.
C: Oh, I wasn't. [G laughs] I have no clue what the fact that guy was doing or saying. I was looking at one thing, and one thing only.
G: I don't think Aziraphale's completely upset. But there is that like, denouement from, you know, an intense moment, and then it's like, they are very aware that they're gonna be in trouble with Heaven and Hell.
C: Maybe. I didn't see anything. But I trust that you're right.
G: It's just, you know, it's more banter than it is anything. But the thing is, like, if this is a conversation that they have, and they were real people, and they're having this conversation, it's like, nothing, you know what I mean? But because it's in a TV show, like, it's trying to tell the audience something, and that's what I don't like about it. It's like, yes, they would have this conversation as Aziraphale and Crowley, but I don't think they should have this conversation as Aziraphale and Crowley in the TV show Good Omens. Do you know what I mean?
C: I do know what you mean. I think I don't have as many issues with it as you do. I do take it- I take it to be like, I don't think it's Crowley expressing faith.
G: No, I don't think it's expressing faith.
C: I don't think that she doesn't believe it either, though. I think that it is a serious suggestion.
G: I think it's just somebody bringing up "What if?" You know, "What if?"
C: Yeah. I think it's a serious suggestion. And yeah. I don't hate it that much. Because I don't think "planned"- I don't think planned is like, it doesn't mean that God orchestrated every single bit of it. I just saw it as, like, "It was a test, and Adam passed." Like, God never really intended the Apocalypse to go through, it was just like, "Let's see what happens if I bring, like, a child of Satan, to be raised among the mortals among humanity, and you know, see if goodness is able to come of it." I think I'm fine with God just like, planning it as in just like, assuming that everything will end up okay. That's okay with me. I think if Adam got to say more lines in the faceoff, this would come across better. I think it's fine. Also, line that was cut in the scriptbook after this is, Crowley says, "From what I remember, and we were never actually on what you might call speaking terms, She wasn't exactly one for a straight answer. She'd just smile as if She knew something that you didn't." And Aziraphale goes, "Well, She is God. That's sort of the point." That was some that was some nice Crowley backstory. I'd like to know about how Crowley saw how God smiled like She knew something you didn't. But I guess it does add more to what you dislike about the lines, so, yeah.
G: Yeah. I don't- I don't dislike it, it's just I don't... Well.
C: [laughs] "I don't dislike it; I just don't like it." [both laugh]
G: No, it's more of like, I don't dislike that they're having the conversation. I just dislike that [laughs] I'm seeing it. [both laughing] Like, what are you trying to tell me? Like, that's the question that's in my head.
C: Okay, yeah, right. Well.
G: As they continue, the fucking international mail express bus passes by, and Lesley is out here.
C: Alive!
G: Yeah, he's alive. And he asks for the package. We look into the box that is between Aziraphale and Crowley on the bench, and it has the scales and the- what's it? The crown. And Lesley goes like, "Oh, there's something else. There's supposed to be a sword here." Aziraphale stands and is like, "Oh, well, sorry! I must have sitted it on it."
C: I believe that he wanted to keep it.
G: Oh, he wanted to, for sure.
C: Yeah. Sorry, Aziraphale. You're not getting your sword back.
G: Yeah. And Leslie says like, "Oh, good thing you were here, really," and Aziraphale- I feel like this is the first presence of like, Aziraphale usual snark that we don't really see until like, the very end of the episode again, where he goes like, "Oh, how nice to have someone who recognizes our part in saving the-" and then, like, Lesley just goes, like, "I need to someone to sign." And it's like, okay. And then Lesley- you know what? I'm endeared by this guy. His character works on me. And he asks, like, "Do you believe in life after death?" And Aziraphale says, "I suppose I must do," which is an interesting way to put it. And Lesley goes like, "If I was to tell my wife what happened to me today, she wouldn't believe me. I wouldn't blame her." And it's like, it's the first- 'cause we get more of it later that, like, people do know that it happened, but not- but they think it's like, an imagination thing, something something. Like, they're not very clear on where these thoughts come from. But the thoughts are there. And I like that idea because of what I have been saying since the very beginning of this fucking episode, where it's like, this massive thing happened, and like, even if the way it's resolved is "Everything goes back to normal," the fact that there was a process between original normal and the normal right now changes something. It's supposed to. And like, the idea that like, the people, you know, remember in some way, you know? Like, I'm sure Lesley will have a change in his life in some way, you know? Because of this experience, even if it was not real. Like, even if he doesn't think it's real or whatever. And, I mean, it's implied that that's also the way other people feel with the like, people talking about political stuff later. But I think it only is with Lesley that it works because it's like, it's a human being. Just one person. And I like that.
C: Yeah. Like that.
G: I really like this guy, don't I? When he shows up the first time-
C: You really do like this guy, and I'm happy for him, and I'm happy for you. So returning the items implies that they're gonna be sent out again one day.
G: Yeah. Perhaps.
C: Perhaps.
G: There's a bus that shows up, and it's, you know, a transportation- public transportation bus. And it says "Oxford" in the front, and Aziraphale points it out, and Crowley goes, "Yeah, but he'll drive to London anyway. He just won't know why." And this is such a quiet moment. It, like, it gets to me. This fucking quiet moment between them. And Aziraphale goes, "I suppose I should get him to drop me off at the bookshop." And Crowley's like, very like, the way she turns, and it's like, face softens up a little bit and like, kind of like, hesitates, like, "Oh, I can't- Should I say it?" And then, you know, he does. He goes, "It burned down, remember?" And then, like, Aziraphale's face! Crowley, goes, "You can stay at my place, if you like." [C screams] And, you know. Aziraphale’s face!
C: Yeah, like, his eyes widen, and he looks like he's about to say something, and then he turns slightly away, but like, not entirely away before he replies.
G: And then looks back, yeah. Looks back and goes, "I don't think my side would like that." And Crowley says, you know, "We don't have a site anymore, and neither of us do. We're on our own side."
C: [laughing] The amount of care you give in reciting Crowley vs Aziraphale's lines here really says something, but continue.
G: What? What do you mean?
C: Like, you're acting out all of Aziraphale's lines, and then you're like, [disinterested, rushed] "And then Crowley says, 'You don't have a side anymore. Neither of us do.'" [both laugh]
G: Am I?
C: A little bit. It feels like that a little bit. But it's okay, 'cause it's like, the exact opposite- Like, if you look at my notes, every time you've written "And Aziraphale's face!" I just write, "And then Aziraphale says." [both laugh] Like, I am not paying attention to that guy.
G: And then the bus comes, and they- Oh, god! This scene! They walk into the bus, and I am reminded, of course, of Episode 1.
C: The other time they were on a bus.
G: They go into the bus, and Aziraphale is already seated, and Crowley sits behind him, but here, they sit beside each other!
C: Yeah. They sure do. They sure do.
G: They do! I have been telling Crystal this, but in the Philippines, 'cause, you know how like, when you're in a relationship but not really, you call it a situationship? That's the term that we use here in the Philippines, but before that term rose to popularity, the term was MU, which is short for mutual understanding. Which, I mean, it was popular when I was like, in middle school, right? Or like, elementary. So it's like, in my head, it's like, a childish thing. Like, if somebody tells me right now, my age, big 20+, "Oh, I am MU with someone," I'll be like, "Man that's so fucking juvenile. What the fuck are you saying?" [C laughs] But like, the thing about the term situationship is the point of it is that you're not sure what the situation is, so you call it a situationship. The point of MU, mutual - I repeat, it means mutual understanding - is that you are sure about the situation, and the situation is that you like each other, but you're not together, at least not officially. This concept is mostly from like, for example, 'cause, you know, here in the Philippines, now, maybe not so much, but back in the day, courting is a very big thing, right? You're supposed to court someone before you get together. And the MU situation is like, you're courting someone, but for some reason, their family maybe, schooling, you know, social expectations, whatever, they can't say yes. And the point of being MU is that you know you like each other. The only thing stopping you from being in a relationship is that you can't say yes yet. But the moment you can, it is mutually understood that you will. And [laughing] I just think Crowley and Aziraphale are MUs. Like, are you guys seeing the vision? Is this so stupid?
C: No, that's the vision. That is fully the vision. Whether or not Neil Gaiman agrees with that vision, mm. But that is what they are. [laughs]
G: Yeah. God, you guys, they literally have a mutual understanding. It's so crazy.
C: Yeah. They sure, sure, sure do.
-
G: Well, anyway, the next morning, we go to London, and "Aziraphale" is looking at the bookshop, and he sees that there is a bunch of new, hardbound leather books, but like, of children's books. He goes, "Oh, that's new."
C: Yeah. I guess Crowley doesn't really have to do the acting right now 'cause Heaven isn't here, but yeah, Aziraphale has a way like, grimmer set his face than usual, and like, doesn't move, like, doesn't have expressions as much. So that's the Crowley of it all.
G: And "Crowley" looks at the Bentley, and, you know-
C: And you know it's not because he walks down Mayfair, and his hips barely sway.
G: That's true. And also, instead of going to the car, he takes a taxi.
C: Yeah. He does smile very wide when he sees the car, though. That's nice.
G: Yeah.
C: We return to Adam. Basically, he's just talking to his mom, saying that, "Hey, I tidied my room. Can I be ungrounded? Can we go outside?" And she says, like, "Hey, like, your dad said that even if he didn't know why you were in trouble, you would know." And Adam's like, "Yeah," and he says he can't explain it to her, and she says that he can go out into the garden. Question, for, like, the British people of the world, do you guys really just say garden instead of backyard? 'Cause every time they said the word garden in this episode, I was like, "God, you guys are trying so fucking hard to do the Garden of Eden parallels. You guys are so fucking corny. Who even calls it a garden? That's the backyard." But like, is that just the word? Do you guys just say garden when you mean backyard?
G: I love how you asked, "Like, British people." I’m Filipino. We call it garden.
C: Okay. Slay. [both laugh] I mean, we don't know about the UK, though.
G: No, I'm assuming they do.
C: Hopefully.
G: Why would you not- I mean, the whole concept of a backyard is like, I feel like, so suburban, you know. And like, I don't think it makes sense, for Adam, who lives in- for the Youngs, I guess, who lives in this like, you know, provincial area.
C: Sure.
G: Do you call it provincial when it's- something?
C: Rural? I don't know.
G: I don't fucking know. Yeah. When it's like, this, like, not, you know, not the suburbs area, to call it backyard feels so stupid. It's a garden.
C: Garden is like, it's like, a very specific thing to me. Like, you need to have, like, a certain certain variety of plants and flowers and things in it, and like, the purpose of it, has to be to like, cultivate and show off those plants and flowers to me.
G: Nope.
C: But no?
G: Our "garden" has plant boxes, and that's the only thing in it, and it's a garden.
C: Alright.
G: There's a bench, too, I guess, but. I think for most- like, here, at least, anything that's outside of the front door but inside the gate, that's the garden, even if there's like, barely any plants in it.
C: Mm. Okay. Good to know.
C: I think the only times I see the word garden used are like, for specific tourist places where, like, they grow special rose bushes or whatever, so. But okay, good to know. Well, so she says he can take Dog out into the garden, but he can't go anywhere else. [sighs] Meanwhile, [very annoyed tone of voice for the next minute] Newt and Anathema [G laughs] are in Jasmine Cottage, in her bed together. And it's like, the light is all soft and romantic, and they're just like, there, and they're naked. Yay. So they wake up together, and she finally asks him, "I'm gonna regret asking this, but why is your car called Dick Turpin?" and then he's like, "Oh, 'cause he was a highwayman, and everywhere I go, I hold up traffic," and she was like, "Oh, I regret asking, teeheeheeheehee." [laughs] No, okay, I need to talk normal. [screams] I hate them. Okay. So... so so so, he starts getting up, and she's like, "Hey, Witchfinder Private Not-a-Computer-Engineer, did we save the world yesterday?" And Newt's like, "I don't know." And then she goes, "You're a pretty good witchfinder, though. I mean, you found me." Boo! Boo! Corny! Not funnay! Boo! Boo! [both laughing]
G: What is this? It's just so bad!
C: What's the point? Like, we got what the joke was when they met.
G: No, listen to me, right? So she doesn't necessarily remember that they saved the world. So to her, this is like, some weird, hazy thing, right? Might as well not have happened. Might have as well been a dream. They got together during that time, and we are to assume that she wanted him to be her boyfriend [C laughs] because of the whole saving the world with the destroying the computer situation. So what now?? [C laughing, G screams] 'Cause if that's forgotten, why is he here?
C: I mean, Agnes Nutter said that he had a big ole swangin' dick. Maybe that's enough. [G sighs] And they cut some lines from the script where Anathema, before she says the whole like, "Hey, did we just save the world yesterday?" Before that, she says, "It's so weird. I've lived all my life according to Agnes's prophecies, and now there aren't any more prophecies. I can do whatever I like. I'm like a train that got to the end of the tracks and still has to keep on going." And Newt says, "From now on, you'll head into the future with everything coming as a surprise. Just like the rest of us." Anathema says she feels lost, and he says, "It's called being human. You'll get used to it." They're not well-written lines, but they would have given us a little bit more Anathema character. Like, I can't believe like, he cut those, but he kept like, "ooh, flirty-flirty, you found me! I'm a witch! Tee-hee-hee!"
G: I mean, the thing is like, towards the end of the Anathema situation, when she's about to burn it, she is acting like she wants to do it but she doesn't like the idea of doing it, but she does actually want to do it. And then what pushes her becomes then, like, Newt, yeah. And it's like, "Well, you should have just given her more of-" you know. Give her more. Not even anything better. Just more.
C: Yeah, exactly. It's just about like, the percentage of her personality that seems to be related to wanting to escape the prophecies. Just up that
G: Yeah, or like, having complicated feelings about it, you know, so that when the decision is made, it's like, "Oh, this is a difficult decision, and this is motivated by like, something or other and not just Newt being like, 'And I'm also here, and I'm going to say lines.'" You know?
C: Yeah, yeah. I will say that this is better than in the book. They give her less agency in the book. So he tried. He didn't do good enough, though.
G: What do you mean? What did they do in the book?
C: Oh, in the book, she's not even there when the package arrives, and Newt considers just burning it by himself, but then she comes out into the room and sees it, and then he just says the "Do you want to be a descendant all your life?" thing, and she's like, "Okay, fine." [laughs] So. It's better than in the book. So she like, settles back in bed and smiles to herself. Ugh! Alright. Now we cut to St. James's Park-
G: Okay, can I just say. I hate Neil Gaiman so much.
C: Good.
G: Like, doing the whole you know, like, "They can't be gay because gender," whatever. Like, when he does do gender, I suppose- This isn't even doing gender. This is just having women. It's like, they're so terribly written. And now, you're pulling the like, "Oh, but like, whatever whatever" card, and it's like, it's so frustrating. It's so frustrating
C: Yeah, it's like, I know that you wrote them as men, [laughing] 'cause if you didn't, they would be way worse.
G: Yeah, 'cause you wrote them like people. [C laughs, G groans] God, I hate you, Neil Gaiman! Yeah, that's my point.
C: Yeah. Oh, Neil Gaiman. Oh, Neil Gaiman! [G laughing]
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C: So we're in St. James's Park, and there's like, a brass band playing Queen's "Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon," which I thought was pretty fun. We get a moment with, like, a British secret agent and a Russian secret agent talking about how the government's decided everything that happened yesterday was a mass hallucination, except the Kraken apparently ate the British trade delegation. And [laughing] I love the implication that Adam did not bring those guys back. He's like, "Well. I'm bringing people back, but not the British trade delegation." And so have Aziraphale and Crowley at the ice cream like, stand or whatever. and Crowley orders them a strawberry lolly and a vanilla with a flake, and they're doing a great job at doing each other's body language, but Aziraphale's a better actor 'cause "Crowley" is leaning on the- Do we need to clarify who we're talking about when we say "Aziraphale and Crowley"?
G: I mean, I don't even know.
C: Yeah, okay, most of the time when I say Aziraphale or Crowley, I am going to talk- I am going to do it based off of the body, but then I will say, like, the actual person when I'm talking about like, the acting or anything that they're doing to try to make it seem more like- Sure. Okay, yeah. 'Cause like, Aziraphale's doing a thing where he's like, leaning against the the car with his elbow and all that, and it looks very, very like Crowley. Though I think one body language thing that gives them away is that the "Crowley" is like, standing still, whereas Aziraphale's walking in a circle behind him. And, generally, for example, in The Globe in 1601, it's like, usually Aziraphale is the ever-fixed mark and Crowley is usually the one who's orbiting him. So, yeah.
G: Reminds me so much of that one art where it's Aziraphale in the middle, and then Crowley's like, changing outfits. The 60s lesbians one. I love that one so fucking much.
C: Oh, yeah! The 60s lesbians art! I love it so much. We'll reblog it when this episode comes out. It's so good.
G: So wonderful.
C: Okay, Grey, discourse of the century, right? [G laughs] The Crowley body gets the strawberry lolly and the Aziraphale body gets the vanilla with a flake, right? So is this part of the disguise, or is this their preferred ice creams? Discuss.
G: Damn, who give a shit? [C laughs] Well, many people, I would assume. I don't know. What do you think?
C: I could really see it either way. I think that it's more fun to me that Crowley likes vanilla ice cream just 'cause of, you know, how he's a demon, etc etc. But I think that generally, Aziraphale has like, more like, classy tastes in food, and I think that the vanilla with a flake does look a little fancier than like, frozen strawberry juice. So yeah, I think that they're eating the- I think that it's part of the disguise, who's eating what ice cream.
G: Yeah, I think Crowley would like, the strawberry lolly more. In my head, the way I was trying to do it was like, in my head, I was trying to imagine Crowley having the vanilla ice cream and then having the strawberry lolly, and then I realized that, like, every time I imagine Crowley in my head, it's always like, long hair from 2005 or whatnot Crowley. That is so important to me. She is always long-haired 2005 Crowley to me.
C: Yeah. Yeah. Season 3, please, please, please, please, please.
G: Pwease! Pwease.
C: Please? Please? Please? I know long-haired Crowley makes David Tennant's job like, way harder, and it's already so hard, but like, please? Please? Thank you. Thank you very much.
G: Fanks.
C: Each of them asks the other about, yeah, the car and the bookshop, and it's like, "No, everything is great. And neither of our people have been in touch yet." And Crowley asks, "Do you understand what happened yesterday?" and Aziraphale says, "I understand some of it, but some of it is just a bit too..." and then Death, who's been feeding the ducks, says, "Ineffable." and then fades away. And Crowley is like, "Hey, that's meant to be bad luck to see him here." And then Aziraphale is gone. He has been kidnapped by the angels who are like, in gardener outfits sort of, like, for the park, and they've tied Aziraphale up, and they put tape over his mouth, which I think is so funny, and Uriel goes, "Renegade angels all tied up with strings," and Sandalphon goes, "These are a few of our favorite things." I think it's a bit much.
G: Bit much.
C: The Sound of Music thing was funny in the first episode, and now, we're like, sort of done. And Crowley is yelling like, "Hey! Hey! Stop them!" But then Hastur, disguised as an Asian woman tourist- [both laugh] Yeah. Goes, "What's wrong, love?" And then fucking whacks Crowley with a crowbar. I personally would not have Hastur disguised as an Asian woman tourist, but, you know what? Neil Gaiman made a choice. I'm not gonna spend time lingering on it. And as Crowley passes out, he goes, "It's not a problem. It's tickety-boo." And yeah. I love you. I love you, Crowley. I love you Aziraphale. Etc etc. We cut back to these scenes in Heaven and Hell. In Heaven, Aziraphale's tied up, and he's being like, "Seriously? A kidnapping in broad daylight?" Gabriel calls him like, a traitor, etc, and Aziraphale says, "Well, I think the greater good demanded-" Gabriel goes, "Don't talk to me about the greater good, sunshine. I'm the archangel fucking Gabriel." And the other angels are very excited about something that's about to happen, and that makes me sad that they're so excited about like, perma-killing Aziraphale. Sorry that they're all so not niceys. Meanwhile, Hell, Crowley's trial wraps up, and, you know, guilty. That's what all the other demons watching through the glass are saying as well. Beelzebub asks about final words, and Crowley asks, "What's it gonna be, then? An eternity in the deepest pit?" at which I go, [laughing] "They had to have so much trust that Agnes Nutter's prophecy applied to them. 'Cause what if it really was?"
G: Yeah.
C: What if it really was? I just- yeah.
G: I mean, they could have thrown "Crowley" through the deepest pits of hell for eternity, and Aziraphale will just be there forever.
C: Yeah, for fucking ever. I just- They had to have so much trust, or they had to like, have a really long conversation where, like, Aziraphale was like, “No, I promise that I'm like, willing to take the risk," or whatever 'cause I don't think Crowley would just like, let that happen. I mean, Heaven would probably also have some pretty bad punishments. I feel there's a big chance for both of them that their punishment would involve never being able to return to the Earth and like, not involve holy water or hellfire. So yeah, they had to really trust Agnes Nutter. Or they had to really understand their head offices and like, know that this is the way that they would punish a traitor, either from like, previous experience, or just like, understanding them in a way that I don't.
G: Yes. Also, like, insanely lucky, I guess, that when you go to Heaven, your body comes with you.
C: Yeah. Yeah. Truly.
G: I mean, Crowley- Crowley, demon who entered a church and had it burning his feet, "Like being at a beach in bare feet!"- I tried to do the voice but I forgot the line- but like, what is the situation, going to Heaven.
C: This has been answered. It's just that Heaven and Hell, neither of them are like- they're both just like, neutral ground.
G: That seems awfully convenient, but okay.
C: Yeah, it does seem pretty convenient. A lot of this is like, there's like, a lot of plot hole-ish things in this, and I think that's also part of why, on the third watch, it sort of falls apart. Like, yeah, seriously. What if it wasn't an eternity in the deepest pit? What if it was like, "Your punishment is that we put you in the bucket with the crabs that like to eat your penis for 300 years"? [G laughs] Like, what? Aziraphale would just have to be in the bucket with the crabs that eat your penis for 300 years? Like, come on. I mean, do you think he would 1984 that situation, or do you think he could bear it?
G: What do you mean?
C: In 1984, like, the Winston or whatever the main character is like, finally, they're like, "We're gonna like, use your like, worst fear on you. We're gonna like, put your face into like, a cage full of starving rats." And at the last minute he realizes, "Oh, I know how to get out of this," and he shouts like, "Do it to Julia! Do it to Julia, not me! I don't care what you do to her. Tear her face off, strip her to the bones- Not me, Julia!" 'Cause like, it's- their relationship is what caused him to rebel or whatever, and like, the torture is to like, break him so that he finally gives that up, and they betray each other forever, etc etc. Anyway, would Aziraphale 1984 that?
G: No, I think Aziraphale will- [both laughing]
C: You think he would?
G: I think Aziraphale will let the crabs eat his penis, yes.
C: [laughing] Okay, he would let the crabs eat his penis. Good. Yeah. I'd like to believe that he would, too. But, I don't know. Sounds like a painful thing to go through! Luckily, so, so luckily for them, Hastur thinks that letting the punishment fit the crime, as in like, a painful but quick death, is somehow worse than the penis-eating crabs. [G laughs] So he- I guess-
G: Is penis-eating crabs a reference to anything?
C: No. No, it's just the first thing I thought of. I think it might be- it might be a misremembered punishment from The Good Place. I think there's like, some kind of like, snakes that eat your penis or something like that they mentioned in The Good Place as being a punishment in the Bad Place. So it's it's holy water. It's holy water, baby. I guess, okay, I guess, for an immortal being, for whom, like, immortality is considered just a fact of life, I guess, like, a complete and utter annihilation is sort of like, an eldritch horror beyond their comprehension, right? Like, I can sort of see-
G: I mean, the thing about the penis-eating crabs is that you'll still be alive, so.
C: Yeah. And that's like, something that they're into? Ddo demons like their lives?
G: Do you like your life?
C: I mean, I don't live in like, the world's crustiest basement.
G: [laughing] That's not really an answer, though, so. I was gonna ask, "Do you like your life?" And you would probably answer, "Yes," and I'll be like, "Okay, I'll shut up." And if you say, "It's fine," and I'll ask, "Do you want to die?" [both laughing] but like, maybe that's not the way this conversation should go.
C: For real. But yeah, I don't. But any- like, I don't want to die. But anyway.
G: Yeah! Yeah, and the demons don't also.
C: Yeah, that's fair.
G: Even though they live in a basement that is quite damp.
C: Yeah. [laughs] It is pretty damp, yeah. Someone comes down the elevator, and it's the archangel Michael. She's in a new outfit than usual. It's like, this flowy white top with big, ruffly sleeves. It's alright. And she has this jug of holy water. When she appears, Crowley goes, "The archangel Michael? That's... unlikely." I'm sorry that Aziraphale didn't realize until now that Heaven and Hell were collaborating like this. This must hurt a little bit, even if he's cast off Heaven. Or has he? She pours the water into a bathtub. Meanwhile, in Heaven, we see that one of the disposable demons has come up with a bunch of hellfire and made a big old tower of flame.
G: Isn't so wild that Hell got an archangel, and Heaven got some guy? [laughs]
C: Yeah.
G: I mean, I guess Ligur is dead, and Ligur is their connection.
C: Yeah, I guess Ligur was meant to be the representative for Hell, and he's like, a Duke of Hell and all that. So this is just, you know, substitute stepping in. Hastur throws the Jabba the Hutt demon into the holy water to test it, and, you know, dies screaming.
G: Disintegrates.
C: Yeah. And Crowley has a chance at one last word, and he says, "This is a new jacket, and I'd hate to ruin it. Do you mind if I take it off?" Aziraphale's having the time of his life here. I'm so happy for him. And it's nice. Like, it is like a, "Oh, Crowley's so cool and unaffected" thing, but it's also like, Aziraphale cares deeply about his clothes, and he believes that Crowley would also. Is this when you sent me, "Is Crowley shirtless under the jacket?" And I said, "No, sorry"?
G: No no no, it was before that. I sent you that like, during the trial scene or whatnot.
C: Yeah, you do see a lot of chest hair. Like, you see a slip of like, the tie, and then, you see a lot of chest hair. Like, I feel like later, like, Crowley's like, bathing suit, I don't think he had that on earlier.
G: Yeah.
C: Like, that doesn't mesh with like, the amount of skin you can see under the jacket. But also, I don't think Aziraphale would miracle it on because if Heaven can tell that he does frivolous miracles, then like, wouldn't they get a notification that he, like, miracled a bathing suit on himself?
G: [laughs] Do you think he excused himself to a room over and was like, "I'm just gonna put on a bathing suit, you guys." [C laughs]
C: For real. We fade into Shadwell reading a book with a Jabba the Hutt demon on it [G groans], and it's your turn. Ha ha ha.
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G: Yeah, Shadwell's there, and then Madame Tracy comes in.
C: I mean, you skipped-
G: She's wearing different clothes.
C: I- yeah, no, I need to spend some time on this. All the things that I hate the most about what they do with Shadwell and Madame Tracy, it is this outfit that just makes me the most fucking livid. You wanna- you wanna hear what it says in the scriptbook, Grey?
G: Okay, go on.
C: "The door opens. It's Madame Tracy. She looks... well, she looks normal. Not like a medium. Not like a sex worker. Not like an eccentric. Just rather off-puttingly normal." Neil Gaiman. Hey, hey, hey. Neil Gaiman, Neil Gaiman. You wanna reread the sentences, "She looks normal, not like a sex worker" back to me again, Neil Gaiman? [G laughing] Is that something you sort of wanna repeat to me out loud to my face? Is that something you wanna repeat out loud to anyone's face, Neil Gaiman? Just a question I have about the world.
G: It is so frustrating that this entire show, Shadwell has been so horrible. So horrible. And the way they try to resolve this is to just go, "Well, let's just completely change Madame Tracy."
C: Yeah, she quits her job, she's not a sex worker anymore. And now, look, she has blond hair, it's down, she's wearing more quote-unquote "natural makeup," she's wearing an incredibly modest sweater and skirt, like, she- Look at her. She's in her tradwife, Christian girl autumn getup! Don't you like seeing that? Isn't that what you want? Hello?
G: They gave zero character development to both of these characters, right? There's no like, sense of direction for both of them. They just decided at the very end that-
C: Let's pair the spares.
G: "One of them is gonna do a massive change." Yeah. "Let's do massive change for one of them. 'Cause if we don't, they're never gonna get along." But the party that gets to- that has to change must be Madame Tracy. And it's like, oh my god! I hate you, Neil Gaiman.
C: Yeah. Yeah. [screams] Yeah. Yeah. And like, all the lead up to this was just Shadwell being incredibly disrespectful of her and her being like, "I'm into that!" Like, okay! Okay, Neil Gaiman. Whatever you want. Just go ahead. Who give a shit anymore?
G: She comes in and says that "I, you know, have a place for you at my table." And like, Shadwell's like, "Oh, in your den of iniquity," and it's like, okay, fine, whatever. Who give a shit. And then they go. They sit there.
C: And they waste these beautiful crane shots on this.
G: Yeah. It's just horrible. It's horrible.
C: They have to do a big ole, like, setup for that. It cost money, it cost time, it cost people. And for what? And for what?
G: It's very much like, "Oh, we have, you know, these two older people. They should get together."
C: Yeah, they're similar ages, and they're both single. Like, we can't have that now, can we?
G: And it's a man and woman. [both] Whoo! And then Newt and Anathema is also- and then
C: She literally says that "It would be nice to have a man around the house." [G laughs]
G: Yeah! Jesus fucking Christ.
C: Yeah. It's literally just, he's there, and he's a man. Which like, is fine if that's like, what you want with your life. But, like, Neil Gaiman wrote all of this, and therefore, as a result, she- what did Pepper say? "Another deluded victim of the patriarchy"? [both laugh]
G: Anyway, back in the fucking- is this still the cottage? Is this still Jasmine Cottage?
C: Yeah.
G: In Jasmine Cottage, there's a lawyer who comes in and is asking for Mrs. Pulsifer.
C: Boo! Boo! Boo! First off, first off, proves that whatever they did, like, getting together, maybe when it happened, Anathema was like, "Agnes said it only happened once, and I want to prove her wrong. So I want to go against fate. He's my boyfriend now." Nope. Not going against fate. This was known and predicted already. Boo! Second, "Mrs."- she has a PhD. She has a fucking PhD, Neil Gaiman. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you so much. I hate you so much. As Anathema said in my fic that I don't want to recommend 'cause it's bad, "Turns out that 'We have nothing in common, but my ancestor predicted that we would fuck and then told us we would get married using phrasing that ignores my PhD' isn't a very solid basis for a relationship." [groans] It's Dr. Pulsifer. If you're gonna do fucking anything, it's Dr. Pulsifer. I hope everyone dies.
G: There has been a letter and a package from 200 years ago in this fucking like, lawyer place for 5ever. Basically, it says, "At this day, at this time, at this blah blah blah, give this to this place." And then they do.
C: Anathema's not very happy. When she comes in and she sees the box, and she says, "It's Agnes. I recognize the style." her sentences are quite clipped, and when Baddicombe starts getting excited about the box, she just sort of shoves it at him and goes, "You open it." So like, you know, the actress is doing the best she can with the material she's been given.
G: Anyway, the lawyer does- there's this bit with the lawyer where he like, opens it, and then the first letter is for him, and then it's like, "Oh, you're cheating on your wife." Whatever! And then Anathema does open the package, and apparently, it's even more nice and accurate prophecies of Agnes Nutter.
C: Yeah. She's a bit teary in disappointment at the end. Sorry, girl.
G: And then-
C: Just the specifics about Shadwell and Tracy, yeah.
G: Yes. I don't fucking know. She just says like, "Hey, I'm moving out. I have enough money. I'm going out of London. You wanna come with?" And then he goes, "Yeah." [laughing] I hate this so much!
C: Yeah, well, there's the "pop the question" joke.
G: Yeah. "We gotta pop the question." And then, instead of like, you know, "You want to get married?" or whatever, it's "How many nipples do you have?" And she says, "Just the two!"
C: Yeah. Also, when he asks the question, he goes, "How many nipples have you got, Jezebel?" And then she goes, "Retired Jezebel." I hate it! I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. He doesn't use her name once in this fucking show, and the solution to that is just "Oh, I quit the job that you don't like that I have!" Like, she also did it for herself, but I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
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C: Back in Heaven, Aziraphale's like, "Hey, you want to reconsider? We're meant to be the good guys, for Heaven's sake." And Gabriel's like, "For Heaven's sake, we're meant to make examples out of traitors, so go into the flame." And Aziraphale goes, "Well, lovely knowing you all. May we meet on a better occasion." which is, I guess, Crowley being like, "I think Aziraphale would be nice here, but also kind of bitchy." And I don't- what do you think- This iis probably what rela Aziraphale would say, ish, right? This seems about right.
G: Well, if Aziraphale is aware that he's going to live after this, I think he would say this.
C: Ah, okay. If he thought he was gonna die, what would be up?
G: I don't know. I really don't know. I don't think Aziraphale is the type to accept death graciously. Not this kind, anyway.
C: Yeah. I mean, the only time we really see him scared is when the angels corner him. It's very different from his like, "Oh my god, don't discorporate me! It'll be so annoying." And like, that is a lot of like, "Well, you mustn't, stop, please." But it's also like, he also does the "We're meant to be the good guys" thing. Yeah, I don't think he would accept death graciously. This is true. Gabriel goes, "Shut your stupid mouth and die already."
G: And then does like, a sarcastic smile, like you know. And Crowley like, copies this in a way. And, oh my god! The face here is so good! I love it so much. Like, I think the thing about Aziraphale in Crowley's body, right, is that it is very much a, you know, he's having fun, and also, the intention is to threaten like, you know, Hell, to be like, "Leave this guy alone," you know? I think, like, Crowley is a lot angrier at Heaven.
C: Yeah. I think Aziraphale, like, the whole time was like, "Yeah, I mean, Hell's bad, 'cause that's what I believe. Of course it'd be awful down there." I think, Crowley knows that Heaven is bad, but like, doesn't really have like, specifics as well as Aziraphale has come up with specifics in his mind. And yeah, he is angry. Aziraphale gets ushered forward into the flame, and before we see what happens, we cut to Hell. We don't see Crowley, but we see, like, all the other demons looking scared and hissing and things. And then we see that it's because Crowley is in the bathtub, splashing about and having a great time. And-
G: Yeah! Wearing a-
C: He's wearing one-piece black bathing suit, and like, calf socks. Like, black socks that are very tall.
G: [laughing] Why is he wearing socks?
C: Yeah, David Tennant was like, "I've seen Wikifeet men. No more." [G laughs] And the socks are completely dry.
G: Not just socks. Like, long!
C: Yeah, long socks. I don't know. It's so fun. It's such a look. And the socks are completely dry. Which means that, like, Crowley had to like, go to the edge of the bathtub and like, backwards scoot, sit his butt on it, and then like, flop back. [G laughs] 'Cause both of his legs are like, up and like, propped up on both sides of the bathtub, so yeah, keeping those socks dry. In the script, he was supposed to be wearing nothing but his underpants, but honestly, the bathing suit's more fun. Yeah, okay, Aziraphale's just having the best time of his fucking life. He goes like, "I don't suppose in all the nine circles of Hell, there's such thing as a rubber duck?" which yeah. You're so cute. You're so fun. And then we cut back to Heaven, "Aziraphale" is inside the flames and cracks his neck, and having a good old time. And then breaths fire at the angels. It's great. I love how both of them did have the opportunity to straight up murder the other one's bosses, but they didn't. Maybe they should have. But also, that goes against their point. They don't want retaliation. They just want to be left alone. The angels are going, "It may be worse than we thought" and "What is he?" Meanwhile, Beelzebub in Hell goes, "Oh, he's not one of us anymore." So both sides think that they're now some kind of like, angel/demon/human hybrid thing.
G: [laughs] No, I mean, at this point, at this point, I was already asking you, "They switched bodies, didn't they?" And you were like, "You'll see." And at this point, I was still like, "I don't think it's true, because Crowley is so Crowley. And like-" as I've said earlier in this episode, Aziraphale has been- like, we saw Aziraphale in like, a combat situation, and he does act different. So I was like, "Maybe it's, you know, an ongoing thing from that." So who knows? So I was like, at the beginning, I was like, "They switched bodies." And then I was like, "Oh, but Aziraphale was acting the way he acted in the Apocalypse, and Crowley is acting like Crowley, so maybe not? What is going on?"
C: Aziraphale as Crowley goes, "So you're probably thinking. if he can do this, I wonder what else he can do. And very, very soon you're all going to get the chance to find out." And smiles, like, menacingly, with like, full yellow eyes. And that's so nice that he's just trying so hard to keep Crowley safe. Isn't that so nice? And Beelzebub is like, "Ah, shit. We have to get Crowley out of here. Gonna start a riot." Michael comes back to pick up the water, very shocked at Crowley still being alive, and Aziraphale tells her, "Michael. Duude. Do us a quick miracle, will you? I need a bath towel." Very fun. And then goes, "I think it would be better for everyone if I were to be left alone in the future, don't you?" And all the demons nod.
G: And Michael, too.
C: Yeah. Good for him.
G: How do you think Aziraphale like, got out of there? Just walked out? Aziraphale as in in Heaven.
C: Yeah, I guess- Can Crowley control hellfire or whatever? If he could like, have a little bit of it in his hand the whole time as he walked out, I feel like it'd be pretty easy. But yeah, I wish we saw more of the Heaven scene, like, does Crowley say anything there? Like, what's up? But yeah, I guess we're supposed to assume that Crowley basically says the same thing Aziraphale says, and then, there's a deleted scene in the script where it's just like, both of them, like, both of them are like, in the elevator, or in different elevators, but they both show up back on Earth. They look at each other, and then "Aziraphale" goes, "Now that was playing with fire." Corny. Would have been cute to see, though.
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G: We go to Newt and Anathema, and this is the scene we were talking about earlier with like, Anathema trying to burn the prophecies. Newt pulls the "Do you want to be a descendant all your life?" And then, you know, she burns it. Do you like how her story ends?
C: I remember when I watched it in the past, I was like- I think I didn't catch the signs of Anathema wanting to escape Agnes Nutter as much, so it read a lot more as it was just Newt saying that that caused her to do it, and I was like, "No, just give her the fucking book back." But, you know, I've had time. It makes sense for an ending. I just wish Newt wasn't part of it.
G: The thing is, I was thinking about this, like, did Anathema want this? I think I'm having the opposite experience as you. Like, maybe I just projected too hard and too raw.
C: About free will shit? Maybe.
G: Yeah. I don't know! I mean. as always, you know, your experiences and your beliefs in life will always shape how you see everything, and I guess my beliefs, etc has shaped it so that I saw Anathema as wanting to get out and etc. But now, I'm like, "Well, did she? I don't know."
C: I don't know. And we'll never know, 'cause- Oh, I guess I gave that away, then. She doesn't come back, no.
G: Yeah. Oh my god. Well, they have those two Lesbians.
C: God. [sighs] I mean- [G laughs] I just- I don't think Neil Gaiman is very good at writing human characters, and the only thing that was going for the human characters in this show were that they had interesting premises, but if the premise for your boring human characters next season are just, "They own a coffee shop," like, just die. Anyway.
G: Well, Adam is also there, and- [laughs] What a way to start.
C: I like this scene.
G: Anyway, Adam is in the garden, and the other Thems are running up to him and saying, like, "Hey, like, let's get out! Let's go somewhere." But he's saying like, "No, I can't."
C: "I'm grounded for years and years."
G: Yeah. They asked like, "What happened last night?" But they don't remember. Doesn't matter. When he says like, "I'll be grounded for years and years," and like, someone asked, like, "What about tomorrow?" And he's like, "Oh, yeah, tomorrow's okay. [C laughs] They'll forget it by tomorrow." The three go out, off to like, a circus somewhere, and Adam's just playing in the garden when Dog's trying to go out, and Adam is like, "Oh, Dog, like, get away from the hedge. Because if you don't, I'll have to chase you, and if you went, I would run, and I'll run, and I'm not allowed out of the garden, but if you go, I'll have to go," and, you know, it's a cute scene, and then Dog does run off, after the hedge gets magically removed.
C: Yeah. So Adam is not entirely human.
G: Adam still has the powers. You know, running through the field, running through the meadow. God starts talking again, and it's, "Something told Adam that you know something was coming to an end. Not the world, but just the summer." And we see Adam like, looking over the meadow and sees Anathema and Newt, and they wave at each other. "There would be other summers, but there would never be one like this. Never again." Adam sees an apple tree, gets one, takes a bite out of it, or we hear RP Tyler, like, in the background, going like, "Oh, I'll tell your father! Like, you, boy!" and God continues on saying, like, "Oh, well, Adam couldn't see why people made such a fuss about other people eating their apples, but life would be a lot less fun if they didn't. And there never was an apple, in Adam's opinion, that wasn't worth the trouble you got into for eating it."
C: Yeah. What a good place to end the show! What a place where you could just end the show. Like, I like the next scene, but like, this should have been the last scene.
G: I like it. This is what I was saying earlier, like, I was trying to think about it, but then I stopped, and I was like, "I'll let Crystal do the thinking."
C: What? Wait, what am I thinking about?
G: I don't know. What are you thinking about?
C: Just that this is a good place to end the show, and that is just about how like, I don't know, humanity is always going to make the choice of knowledge and blah blah blah blah blah.
G: Yeah. I suppose that is all it is. I was trying to think, like, "What's the deeper meaning?" or whatever, but. Again, I keep on saying this, I like that Adam is 11 so much. Like, this is him now, and he's thinking all these things, and it's like, you know, he's gonna grow up. He's gonna be a miserable teenager, probably. [C laughs] And you know what? He's going to be okay. Do you still talk to all the people you used to play with when you were 11?
C: I mean, I met Danica when I was 11.
G: Yeah, but that's at school. That's not playing on the street.
C: Oh, I didn't play on the street.
G: Oh. Well, that's sad.
C: Yeah.
G: Sorry. That's such a mean thing to say, I feel. "That's sad. Your childhood is so sad."
C: No, I mean, I was not offended. I think that is true. [G laughs]
G: Well, yeah.
C: Do you?
G: Occasionally. They're my neighbors, so I talk to them occasionally, but not as much as I did when I was 11, of course. I was just thinking like, these four went through so much, but they're also 11. They're gonna grow out of it. I also thought I went through so much with my friends when I was 11. Then, I grew out of it. Aw. They're gonna be okay.
C: Yeah.
-
C: So we go back to St. James's Park. It- [sighs] like, all of the show starts with like, the God narration, like, "It begins as it will end. In a garden." And that's because the Adam scene is the last one in the book, but then they just shuffled stuff around, and then, like, they just slapped this into St. James's Park so they could be like, "Well, that's also a garden, innit?" [both laughing] It's not!
G: It's a park!
C: Yeah. They're in St. James's Park. So funny.
G: [laughing] That's so fucking funny. [both laughing] Yeah.
C: So they've returned, and they're not acting anymore. So [G exclaims] “Aziraphale” is, you know, lounged across the bench and Crowley, in quotes, sitting with hands on his lap and like, talking primly and things. Yeah. David Tennant's Michael Sheen voice, very good. Would love to hear more of it outside of that ten-minute bookshop reading. But yeah.
G: Michael Sheen? No comment?
C: What?
G: [laughs] No comment, Michael Sheen.
C: Yeah, you wanna fuck him when he's here. He's hot, sure.
G: He looks so good. Yeah. Remember when I was like, "Oh, Crowley, whatever," like, I think, maybe, like, Crowley is just inherently hot.
C: Yeah, regardless of who plays Crowley, yeah.
G: Regardless of anything. Yeah.
C: Yeah. Good for him And the way that they're sitting like, the first time we- [laughs] God, I sound stupid. Okay, so the first time we see them in St. James's Park in Episode 1, right? Like, they're also both sitting on the bench, and like, they're like, sitting- they're sitting on opposite ends of the bench, and Crowley has, like, an arm out, stretched over the middle of the bench, sort of leaning against it, and then is also leaning against Aziraphale. In this situation, they're sitting next to each other, Crowley's still leaning towards Aziraphale, and the arm that's stretched out is like, away from them like, towards the edge of the bench. So it's like, the same position, but mirror-swapped so that they can be next to each other. And isn't that nice? They check that no one's watching, and then they swap back by holding hands and then having, like, an ugly effect happen. Crowley's collar, which this whole time has been tartan, changes back to red, and she goes, "Tartan collar, really?" And Aziraphale goes, "Tartan is stylish!"
G: Wait, is that what happens? I did not catch that.
C: Oh, yeah. Aziraphale was like, "I need to act so so well as Crowley, but I refuse to have this fucking red collar on. I need it to be tartan." Aziraphale is delighted, like, fucking clapping his hands, going, "So, Agnes Nutter's last prophecy was on the money!" And then he leans in a little conspiratorially and goes, "I asked them for a rubber duck. And made the Archangel Michael miracle me a towel!" And they both laugh. They're having a great time.
G: Yeah.
C: It's wonderful. Crowley says, "They'll leave us alone for a bit. If you ask me, both sides are going to use this as breathing room before the big one." And Aziraphale's like, "I thought that was the big one," but Crowley says, "For my money, the really big one is all of us against all of them," aka Heaven and Hell against humanity. Which I guess is like, a hint at a sequel, but that was in the book, too. I don't know. Interesting idea. Probably gonna happen in Season 3. Looking forward to it, I suppose. Crowley says, "Time to leave the garden." God, you really tried so hard. [both laugh] You tried so hard and not raw at all. I mean, maybe it's like, a self-referential, like, "He-he! Eden!" thing. Whatever. Crowley goes, "Let me tempt you to a spot of lunch?" and Aziraphale says, so cute, "Temptation accomplished!" doing like, what is he like- he's like, bouncing, basically, when he says it. And it's very fun. Like, I feel like this is like, they're both finally, like, fully aware that this is like- that they're doing [both] roleplay, yeah. They're on like, the exact same level about how this is roleplay now. And that's fun. That's fun for them.
And they go to the Ritz, and we have, like, diagetic, someone in the Ritz is playing "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square." It's Tori Amos singing, I think. And yeah, I know I complained about the lines they say here earlier, but looking at their faces did cause me to forgive everything that Neil Gaiman ever did and ever will do. But I'll become a hater again soon. But they look so in love! I don't know how to explain it. You just have to look at it. Ah! Ah!!
G: [laughs] Yeah.
C: So they're, yeah, you know, they're at their table. A waiter comes over and pours them champagne. and Aziraphale goes, "I like to think none of this would have worked out if you weren't, at heart, just a little bit a good person." And Crowley, with just the most fucking adoring expression says, "And if you weren't, deep down, just enough of a bastard to be worth knowing." And they cheers. Crowley says, "To the world."
G: "To the world."
C: Aziraphale says, "To the world." And ahhh! Like, like, like, okay, after Crowley says the bastard line, though, this is like, a thing that Aziraphale does a lot, and it makes me crazy where it's like he looks at Crowley, he smiles, and then he looks away, looking kind of like, guilty, or like, he feels like he's overindulging, and then he flicks his eyes back up at him for like, a second. Like, the look away/look back is- It's crazy. It's crazy! They're in love. What's happening? Is anyone else seeing this? Hello? Is anybody else?
G: Are they in wuv? [C screams] Yeah, this scene did nothing for me. [laughing]
C: What?
G: Yeah. I did not give a single shit.
C: But- but- but- he- the smile is- he- [confused sounds]?
G: Yeah.
C: Okay!
G: I don't know. I don't care.
C: Wow!
G: I'm rewatching it right now to understand your vision.
C: And?
G: Okay, I see. Whatever. [C exclaims] I still don't really give a shit.
C: Okay.
G: This is what I mean when I say that like, if I watched- if I binged this show, I would have not given a shit about it.
C: Okay. That's fine. I mean, that is what I assumed was gonna happen when this podcast started, I suppose.
G: You know what I like, though. Like, as it's zooming out, they start having a conversation, and we don't hear it. For obvious reasons, I think. I mean, the reasons that I like them are pretty obvious. But yeah! We're not privy to it, and that's a good thing! It's a good thing, you guys!
C: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a fun looking conversation, because Aziraphale's gesturing so spiritedly-
G: And they're laughing, yeah.
C: And Crowley's not moving, but you can see that they're like, smiling and laughing at bits. And it's nice. And God does like, a narration thing where it's, "{erhaps the recent exertion had had some fallout-"
G: There was a nightingale, blah blah blah.
C: "- in the nature of reality, because while they were eating, for the first time ever, a nightingale actually did sing in Berkeley Square. Nobody heard it over the noise of the traffic, but it was there, right enough." And yeah, we close with the song. I mean, nobody heard it because of the traffic! Okay.
-
C: Grey, what'd you think about this episode?
G: It's fine. [laughs]
C: Yeah.
G: It is fine, though.
C: Yeah. I feel like most things were not wrapped up satisfactorily to me, but also like, yeah. There you go. But also, they're in wuv. So yeah. Well. Gayest moment?
G: I don't know.
C: I think I have... two? No, actually, there's a lot. I don't know. There's a lot.
G: [laughing] I love how I went, "I don't know," and you're like, "There's a lot!" I feel so guilty! I'm not doing a good job of talking about this episode.
C: You don't have to like it.
G: [laughing] Yeah, well.
C: Yeah. And you don't. So it's fine. Yeah, I think Aziraphale's smile, guilty look away, guilty look back, definitely gay. I think that the way Crowley, says, "angel" on "Angel, what if the Almighty planned it like this all along?" -
G: Oh yeah, that one, yeah, I guess.
C: - is crazy-making?
G: I like the one where they sit together in the bus!
C: Yeah. And I also think "I'll never talk to you again" being the threat is pretty gay. Transest moment. I think “Aziraphale” being like, less good at being Aziraphale, real, is pretty trans. Like, Crowley, not being as good of an actor is pretty trans 'cause that's not his favorite shape.
G: [laughs] I just- I thought a horrible thing, which is that Madame Tracy is transgender in the Tumblr sense in this episode. [C laughing] God, I hate Neil Gaiman so much! I hate him so much. Why does he write women this way?
C: I don't know. It's very frustrating. You know what? I will say one thing about Maggie and Nina next season, and it's that they seem like normal people.
G: Yeah, like it's not like a gimmick, yeah.
C: Yeah, they aren't written in a way where the whole time, Neil Gaiman was thinking about how they were women and how that would make him respect them less on his page. Well- I just remembered a line. Most of the time, they're written like people.
Grey, what are your predictions for Season 2/What do you remember from that time I ranted to you about it for an hour?
G: Um, there's gonna be a kiss at the end, which is initiated by Crowley after a fight. And it will end with them parting ways, and the parting ways is Aziraphale goes to Heaven, and Crowley doesn't want to come.
C: Yup.
G: That's such an odd thing given where they end this season, but okay.
C: I agree with that statement. [both laugh]
G: Well, I know that there is a lesbian couple that they try to get together, and then when the lesbian couple gets together or something - maybe they don't get together, I'm not actually sure - they go to Crowley and say, "Hey, are you in love with the angel?" [C laughing] And Crowley's like, "Yeah." And then he goes to confess. And that's when the divorce happens. God, it's miserable.
C: Yeah, sorry, Crowley.
G: There's dancing! They do dancing, and Crystal, you hate it.
C: They don't pull out a single good camera angle for it! [G laughing] "Oh, we're gonna use fucking cranes for Shadwell and Tracy, but like, oh, no, we're just gonna have like, five seconds of them dancing and not even gonna be Emma. (2020) at all. We're not gonna use a crane shot, either. We hate you."
G: I think- Oh, I know how it starts! There's going to be- Well, there's going to be someone- What's it? Oh, angels! Heaven. Etc. They're both angels. They're both making stars or something.
C: I'm booing very loudly in my head.
G: And then I also know that- you know, the funny thing is, I went into Season 1 knowing absolutely nothing. I knew nothing about Season 1. Nothing.
C: You know basically everything about Season 2.
G: Yeah, minus everything. I mean, I know, like, broad strokes, but I don't know how they come together, or anything.
C: Well, do they come together? Is there enough writing to bring anything together? Are there even things to bring together? Questions we can ask ourselves next week. [C laughs]
G: Also, I know that there is- Oh, John Hamm and nakedness is going to happen. 'Cause I heard- 'cause I watched an interview for Season 2 of Good Omens of Michael Sheen and David Tennant, fully expecting that it will be spoiler-free, 'cause, you know, it's an interview, and, you know, they say, "Oh, it starts with John Hamm being naked." And I was like, "Okay, sure."
C: Well, that's in the trailers, so.
G: I don't watch trailers, though.
C: Yeah, yeah. But I guess it's like, it wouldn't be a spoiler in their minds.
G: Yeah. I know Beelzebub and Gabriel are together, but like, I don't know how that plays into the Aziraphale and Crowley situation. Are they like, "Oh my god, they're in love. Are we?" Probably not, though. That's probably not the thought process. But whatever. I know that when Aziraphale asks Crowley to go to Heaven, he kind of says, like, "I can turn you into an angel again," because that's the thesis of the [both laugh] "Enchanted" AMV, which I am obsessed with, if I'm being for fucking real. Yeah, I mean, that's it. That's all I know, I think.
C: Yeah. Well. You do know basically all of it. Let's go. Alright.
G: Let us go. Rating.
C: Rating. 6?
G: It's fine. I'll give it a 7.
C: Oh, wait, I liked it more than you, but you're giving it a higher number. Should I revise my number?
G: Well, I mean, okay, I'll go- I mean, you said that Season 2 is bad, so I'm reserving my lower numbers for Season 2.
C: Oh, real.
G: Also the highest- I think the lowest I've given is a 7.
C: Really? I thought you gave a 6 for last episode. Episode 5.
G: Well, okay, did I? Okay, I'll give this a 5.
C: Wow, okay.
G: It's worse than last episode.
C: I'll just give it a 6, same as last. Which seems both too high and too low. Anywhere the wind blows.
G: It's not that bad of an episode, it's just a bad culmination to the show.
C: It's a letdown. Yeah. Ah, well. That’s it for this week’s episode of Rubbish and Probably a Podcast. Next week, we will be talking about Season 2, Episode 1: “The Arrival.” Or Season 2, Episode 1: "Chapter 1: The Arrival," 'cause they decided to be pretentious this time.
G: What the hell?
C: Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.
G: Follow us on social media! We interact through the account set up for our Supernatural commentary podcast, Busty Asian Beauties, so we are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com and you can email us at
[email protected]. Again, thank you to everyone who is reaching out to us. So nice. So fun. Thanks so much.
C: Yeah. Love talking about the show with you guys. Thanks to everyone who’s donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod! See you guys next time! [both] Bye!
[theme song]
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[beep]
G: Should we talk about my escapades with fanfiction?
C: Sure, man. Go for it. [G laughs]
G: Well, I started- after I watched the last episode, Episode 6, I messaged Crystal, like, "Hey, do you have any like, Season 1 fics that you desperately want me to read so so bad?" So they sent some over, and I read them. [both laugh]
C: You sure did.
G: Well, not only did I read them, I was like, you know, going back and forth between the browser and the Discord message where Crystal sent them, and I'm like, "This is so frustrating. You know what I'm going to do?"
C: "I refuse to use the mark for later or bookmark functions of AO3 built into the website-"
G: No, but like, I don't like them. I don't like the built-in bookmark and mark for read whatever function of the AO3 website. So I made a GSheet- Actually, I'm going to pull it up right now, just so that we can see how much fics I have down. And it's like, combination list of recommendations and also stuff that I have read. There's currently a 119 fics in this thing.
C: Slay.
G: Isn't that a bit crazy? I mean, I haven't read all of them, so.
C: Congrats. Fun.
G: Thank you.
C: And you have reviews.
G: I do. It's- So it's title, author, link, length, category - which is just, I added that earlier today 'cause I realized that I have a very, very, very huge preference to when Crowley and Aziraphale are lesbians [laughs], so like, I just want the category so I can find easier the lesbian ones - and then tropes and details and remarks. And my remarks do vary in quality. So, hell yeah!
C: And a lot of them are just, “It's fine.” [G laughs]
G: Yeah, the amount of fics that Crystal has sent to me that I've replied with, "It's fine." is truly astounding. [C laughs] But some of them are not just fine. They are excellent. So that's, you know. You get some- What's the term? You lose some, you gain some? [both] You win some, you lose some. Yeah.
C: Yeah. I've lost quite a bit, but it's okay. I'm very strong.
G: [laughs] Yeah.
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[beep]
G: They also have the fucking Horsemen in Supernatural right?
C: They do? Oh, yeah in like, My Bloody Valentine, there's like, that Famine guy.
G: Yeah. Famine, yeah. Death is in the next episode we're going to discuss in BABPod.
C: Yeah, in like, two months? Month and a half?
G: Yes.
C: God, I don't want to go back to Supernatural. [G laughs] You know what? After Good Omens Season 2, I’ll be begging to go back to Supernatural.
G: Yeah, probably.
-
[beep]
C: Okay, wait. How are you finding reading the book? Because I couldn't actually do it the first time I tried 'cause I was like, "This is too similar to the show, and I'm bored." Like, I needed some time away from the show before I could actually get through the book the first time. Do you find that to be the case?
G: Yeah, a little bit. I got to- right now, I am just immediately after, like, Adam gets the dog, and it's like, "Yeah, fine, whatever." I was like, "It's boring." I don't- I don't- I mean, it's not boring. It's a funny book, but-
C: It's not that funny.
G: It's fine! I have other books that I want to read, so, you know what I mean?
C: Yeah. Are you doing the audiobook?
G: And there's other Good Omens fanfictions that are in my GSheets. No. Not doing the audiobook? I tried it, I didn't like it.
C: That's fair. Yeah, I think I listened to the Martin Jarvis audio book all the way through recently, but when I listened to the Tennant and Sheen audiobook I just skipped to the places where they said things 'cause it was like, "Who give a shit about the narrator? I just wanna hear them act out the lines I'm sad that they cut."
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