#Breakdown Answered

[knockouts-medibay]

"your alive breakdown?..."

@hobotron

Oh yeah, I'm alive! Why wouldn't I be..? Handing the datapad back to Knockout before he gets mad with me taking it constantly, haha!

[archie-sunshine]

ES Breakbee!! Anything you want, I just miss them and I feel like the hype behind them died down :((

true true!! I feel sad about earthspark, so i don't draw them all as much, but i shouldn't leave my sweet babes out in the cold, should i?

[0wldn0]

Aww I love the bumblebee/Optimus father-son duo! It’d be really funny if like if the autobots and the suctions had a family dinner, considering your last Breakbee post was breakdown trying to convince bumblebee to meet his family ! Just a thought! Love the art 💕✨✨

BAHAHA OMGG I love the idea of the Earth team all having a family dinner together!! Maltos, Autobots and the Stunticons 😭💕💖Imagine Breakdown convinces his side of the family and Bee convinces his side to make it happen...

I can totally see OP giving Breakdown nasty looks the whole time though 😶 He always supports Bee's choices, but this time, he does NOT approve FDHDFH

It's okay, Motormaster will talk some sense into him. "I understand the yellow one is like your child but those are two whole adults leave them alone thank you."

[neymiiie]

I just want to see him again.

[triona-tribblescore]

IM FUCKING BACK BABYYYY!!!! [Read tags for a lil info!]

(Please accept this silly doodle dump of my brainrot boys uvu ✨)

[orions-hound]

pillowpet breakdown when. they must be together in every universe

together at last

[kinardsevan]

What is your opinion on Tommy coming back or not? And in they case we see him again, do you think it’ll be just for closure (ex: Abby in season 3) or maybe for a BuckTommy second chance?

fun fact: i was considering doing an entire breakdown with a bunch of Oliver's interviews from the start of this arc until now to point to my opinion:

Tommy is coming back. The romcom theme is still in effect, and we're only about midway through the 3rd act.

Long story short (and without sources right now), I think that the interviews were actuallly pointing in this direction with the wording for a hot second. We have OS telling us that he thinks the best relationships have a "will they, won't they" bit where the audience and the characters are pining. We've seen this play out on the show. And we also have to remember that Oli knew during this interview that the breakup was coming. We also have the interview (I believe it was the Decider one I linked last week) where he mentions choosing to fight for the relationship or not. I feel like a lot of people have taken the context of that and twisted it into "they didn't do it right away, so they're not going to". Except, there's ANOTHER quote of relevance, which is Oliver talking about how Buck's queerness isn't tied to Tommy or Eddie, and only to himself.

Obviously, there have been things said since 806 that would point towards me being delulu, except, here's the issue: TM, OS and LFJr are NOT going to tell us that Tommy is coming back if that's the intention. It would spoil the surprise of it all, and the win of it all. What fun is there in that? What TM has said is that Tommy is Buck's romantic past but that doesn't mean he won't turn up again in the future (all relevant and true facts which do not shut down a reconciliation). Lou never out-and-out said he was done with the show. He's said time and time again that he wants to come back. TM has mentioned Tommy coming around again. OS literally said in an interview "they may run into each other on scene and have it be awkward".

Now obviously we don't actually have the full story with how things went down and the show decided to go with splitting the boys up. I think the fact that Lou has called out the bullying but says he wants to come back suggests that it wasn't him saying it was too much. I have two theories that could honestly run concurrent with one another:

Evan and Tommy break up in 806 at the end of the episode. With 911 having 18 episode seasons, this quite literally only makes up the first third of the season. It set up the beginning of the year for us. We're now two episodes into the second part of the season with a pretty clear idea of where the next three will go and suggestions (by fans, nothing official) that the "soonest" we could see LFJr again is 812. This is reasonable, as it would be the end of the middle of the season. Knowing that TM has suggested he might do a multi-episode season finale, pushing LFJr back into the show in 812 (or even the end of 811 if we go with my theory that Eddie could possibly leave around this time and Tommy helps them pack up/his and Buck's first time spending time around each other again), there would still likely be something around this time period that would be around when they would open the doors to this. As it is, we know that 809 and 810 go together, and then we'd have 811 to really flesh out the end of Buck's fling. I think there's even more possibility of LFJr being in this episode as well because if the plan is to bring them back together (which everything has been suggested so far ON screen in terms of keeping Tommy "in" the story), three-episode arc gives us several things: a. it allows the show to make the point that Buck's queerness is not intrinsically attached to Tommy; that his interest in men is as equal as he know his interest in women is. b. it gives them the ability to also show that his feelings for Tommy are not based in Tommy being his "first", or Evan needing to "discover" more about himself. They're in love with each other, and the show has given us the pieces for that. LFJr has acknowledged it in an interview, Tommy loves Buck. We also know that Tommy's line to Evan is "you'd end up breaking my heart, and I don't think I could deal with that". When I hear that sentence, what I'm actually hearing is "I'm already in love with you, and if I let myself fall more in love with you by being with you every day all the time and this ends, I won't survive it". By relation, we have Josh ask Buck if he loves Tommy and Buck waffles, but I think this has more to do with his lack of understanding of what a healthy love is in a relationship, given his past relationships. He never got to tell Abby. Ali left. and saying I love you to Taylor wasn't about the core of actually being in love with her, which I think is another important piece for BuckTommy: they don't just love each other, they're in love with each other. Still, sometimes it's hard to quantify that feeling, and I think (as I've referenced before), for Evan it was easier to ask Tommy to share a living space with him than to share how he feels about him because historically, things haven't worked out well for him when he's been in love outwardly. Further, the questions Josh asks Evan are directly correlated with loving someone, and Evan answers yes to all of them. (I don't think I need to add this, but he also sees a future with Tommy, talks about being engaged or married. He's serious about Tommy in a way he never has been before.)

There's also the theory that the breakup happened because of scheduling conflicts. Now obviously the show could've found other ways to work around LFJr's scheduling issues by having Tommy go on a trip or what-have-you, but let's remember OTHER things that have been said by OS in prior interviews: a. back in June, he did an interview where he stated that he wanted and hoped that BuckTommy would go through issues that couples normally go through in their first year together. He wanted normal issues. This storyline IS normal. b. he didn't want to repeat Tarlos. By the very definition of what the show is doing right now, we're not. Tarlos and BuckTommy are their own things with their own reasonings.

One of the other things I also keep being pulled back to is these issues: first of all, we know how LFJr plays with the 911 demo, given that they got to see it last season. It's why he was written into more episodes after his initial four episode arc and brought back. ABC has also used BuckTommy in their own adverts, which suggests that they are very supportive of the relationship continuing because it draws in viewers. Truly giving that up for good feels like dousing yourself in gasoline and then considering striking a match. Second, people also keep calling out that TM only plans a few weeks in advance. I believe this is true with story beats. We know that the writers room has a general idea on character arcs, thanks to some of the discussion on the cheese page post-806. I really struggle to believe that TM didn't know going into going forward with the breakup whether or not he wanted to bring LFJr back. We know he waffled back and forth on the idea of the breakup, meaning he probably had other solutions on his mind for whatever LFJr's schedule needed adjusting for, and this is what he decided on. Also, even if 8b hasn't been broken down yet (we know it hasn't), they would still know at this point what they do or don't want, what their ideas might be. Solidification for why Tommy should be brought back is directly shown in the reaction by the GA and the fandom to the breakup. They may not know exactly how that reunion happens yet, but what they have suggested is that Buck's new relationship will be short-lived. That he's using it to cope. We also know he's still processing the break-up and still misses Tommy. These are all things that point to the story not being over. Plus, I feel (once again), if the story really was over and they didn't have plans to continue this in 8b, LFJr wouldn't be talking about wanting to go back. It be far more "yeah that sucked, but it's over now and what can you do? I'm off to this new show and I'll never be back." (I've commented also on the fact that the fangirlish interview comment about his "i'm going here, doing this, have some opportunities" statement is very run-of-the-mill. Obvs I could mean something. Or it could literally just be a canned answer.) (This might feel a little off-center, but I think his commentary on trusting TM and knowing what he's doing in one of his post-806 interviews directly suggests that he believes the story is going to be handled properly.)

I realize at the end of the day, all of what I'm piecing together could mean zilch and Tommy could possibly never come back. They could truly just drop the story and never circle back around, set fire to a beautiful arc and lose thousands (possibly millions) of viewers. I've certainly suggested myself being one of them. But I don't see BuckTommy only getting an Abby fix for two reasons. LFJr wants to come back and continue the story, and Connie Britton only ever intended to do one season. Also, the fling has been called out as being planned to be short-lived. Why bother mentioning that if you don't have other plans for the story.

The last thing I'll leave you with is my commentary from the interview Oli and Aisha did with the guy from Chicago. That reporter obviously liked the BuckTommy storyline and said he's choosing to believe that the relationship is paused, not over. By relation, we had Oliver say three things: (1 and 2) Buck is still looking for love, both in himself and with another person. (3)The season is only half over. Circle that back to 806-808. Buck is finding love in himself by dealing with it in a healthy way (so far) with the baking. We've also seen the "cracks" Oli mentioned with his continued urge to want to text Tommy, as well as him fighting it off by baking (referencing the "pendulum swinging"). Looking for love in others will likely be this arc where he tries to deal/move on. I feel like we collectively watched the end of 806, and then 807 and 808 yelling at the TV "you're in love with him, piece it together already!" (or maybe that was just me???). But truly, whether it's a fling, his therapist, or Bobby/Maddie/Eddie who finally spells it out of or him, I think there will be a point at which we see that come to fruition. The seeds were sewn in for it in the scene with Josh. Now it's just about watching those seeds sprout.

Final note: we've had a good run up to this point with these two. Did we truly thing that the honeymoon phase would last forever? (I didn't. Conflict and the pink bubble popping have to happen eventually.) If we really want to suggest that what BuckTommy has is real, they have to go through this and come out the other side. I think everyone is justifiably frustrated due to the 4 month wait on new episodes (I personally would not have left people hanging quite like this, but that's just me), but the narrative does lead us toward what the show is doing with the suggestion that it does have a natural (and good) conclusion. (Possibly with a helicopter/truck/jeep crash?!)

And just as my singularly LAST note, here's my other thing: Evan and Tommy both have abandonment issues. (Tommy's are clear based on the break up and we know Buck's.) By that correlation, when these two finally get back together, they're never going to fucking let the other go.

(This was so much longer than I intended it to be, but that's my answer 😂😂😂😂😂😂)

[dragqueenstarscream]

{ That one post about tea in cold water, TFP Decepticon edition }

Dreadwing: Which one of you was going to tell me energon tastes different if it was heated up?

Breakdown: You... You've been drinking energon cold this whole time?

KO: Dreadwing... Are you going to answer the question?

Dreadwing: Yes, I thought for centuries mechs heated it to speed up the purification process, I didn't think there was an actual reason

KO: You don't have the patience to microwave energon for 3 minutes??

Shockwave: Why are you putting it in the microwave to boil it? That is highly illogical

KO: Do you think I have the patience to boil energon on the stove?

Shockwave: It takes less than a minute

KO: I'm sorry, is your stovetop powered by the fragging sun!?

Shockwave: How long does it take for you to boil energon on the stove?

KO: Like seven minutes

Shockwave: All you have to do is put the cube on top of the stove on medium heat and it boils in two minutes, less than that if you use a cylinder

KO: (laughs) You're putting the whole cube on the stove, on medium heat??? Your stove is enchanted

Soundwave: [ Every decepticon here is an actual lunatic ]

Starscream: Do none of you own a fragging kettle?!?!

i don't think i've ever seen that post, but yeah, it checks out. they're all dysfunctional dumbasses and i love them for it.

and yeah, starscream would ask about the kettle. he's the most british of them all.

[raudart]

i think i might have suggested knock out ages ago so how about breakdown so they can hold hands

they can hold hands in the same doodle <3

[yinorii]

itty bitty malleus horn

ch 7 spoilers//

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY TOOK A CHOMP OUT OF HIS HORN??? NOT OUR HORNTON

[starburstminibot]

Hey I loved your explanation of breakdowns development with bumblebee! I was wondering what bumblebee was thinking at the same time though? Like while he was carrying??

I love this AU though!! It’s the only thing I’ve been thinking about! 😩😩💗

It wasn’t easy for Bee either lemme tell you…

Bumblebee has the capabilities of seeing good in everyone… and he is very aware of how vulnerable it can make him. He’s been manipulated before, he’s been taken advantage of due to his child-like optimism. He’s been… hardened to a degree because of it. He’s not a young naive scout anymore. He still likes to see the good, but he’s much more cautious of letting that blind him to the reality.

Except everything goes out the window when it comes to Breakdown.

Bumblebee doesn’t know why. Maybe it’s because they were friends before the war, maybe it’s because despite everything Breakdown’s never really done anything to hurt him (at least intentionally)

Bumblebee is more aware than anyone how vulnerable he leaves himself by trusting Breakdown so wholeheartedly.

He knows how quickly Breakdown could give him a false tip and lure him right into a trap. And yet Bee would still take his words and trust them like the gospel.

Maybe it’s because he doesn’t value his life quite as much as he should. He doesn’t want to die… but he’s been in the trenches of a war far longer than he ever experienced living at peace (if that’s what you would call the civil unrest that was slowly tipping into war by the time he came online) he’s a bit desensitized to the extinguishing of a spark.

He knows the dangers of getting too close to anyone when you could lose them at any moment. Of course, he’s always been a friendly bot. Most Autobots favor him kindly and he always enjoys other’s company. But he doesn’t stick around long enough to actually get close. He’s a scout. Traveling across Cybertron, sneaking past enemy lines. He’s alone more than not. Perhaps the only true companion he has was the bot always checking in on him at the end of the mission, the one giving him the next orders, and seeking his unlikely advice. It was easier to get close to Optimus… he was less likely to get blown up in a random firefight and never come back.

Which only made his attraction to Breakdown more confusing. Breakdown was everything that Bumblebee tried to avoid: Reckless, foolish, thrill-seeking. Breakdown threw himself into fights he wasn’t likely to win for fun. Breakdown didn’t value his life quite as much as he should either.

They both were willing to gamble everything because neither of them had anything to lose. And that just made whatever they had that much more exciting

They didn’t see each other often. Years would pass before they could catch a glimpse of the other. It didn’t matter how long it had been… how many friends the other had lost… it was like their unspoken connection was the only true consistency in their lives. Sometimes Breakdown would give Bee information. Other times they would just play cards or race. Sometimes they wouldn’t have a chance to talk at all, being in the heat of battle surrounded by other bots.

They got pretty good at pulling punches and staging fights.

And then the war “ended” and Breakdown was nowhere to be found. Bumblebee would be lying if he said he wasn’t disappointed. He should have known better… of course Breakdown would have run, all the Decepticons did. And Breakdown was still a decepticon.

He’s pretty confident Optimus knows about their friendship at this point… or at least has his suspicions. But Optimus had also pardoned the ex-leader of the Decepticons so Bumblebee doesn’t think he has much room to judge.

Being sent undercover for over a decade wasn’t the post-war future Bumblebee had planned for himself. He hadn’t envisioned it would take place on an alien organic planet either. He could still remember a time when he dreamed of retirement and maybe he’d take up a “normal” job like the ones Ironhide used to talk about. He always wondered if he’d be good at something more domestic… if maybe he would have an apartment of his own to return to each night instead of recharging at whatever outpost was closest after days without rest.

Now he views those as delusional fantasies. He’s not really sure who he is outside of his title of Autobot spy. He doesn’t think he can be anything besides a soldier. (A hero… according to some people)

He wasn’t sure if it was boredom that triggered his search for Breakdown or if maybe he was just looking for some kind of company (he was used to solitude but it had just been… so long) but somehow he ended up at nearly every race he caught wind of. It wasn’t desperation, certainly not… he just… had a lot of free time is all.

He got close a couple of times. Breakdown was changing his alt mode regularly, Bee was sure of it. But still every so often he’d catch a streak of blue and white. Breakdown had always been faster than him…

Bee considered himself great at adapting to any environment or situation that he would land himself in, but nothing could have prepared him for his latest assignment… Sparklingsitting…

Why Optimus had pulled him out of 15 years of hiding for something so… mundane? Bee could only begin to question. He was convinced it was a waste of time. Bee didn’t know the first thing about younglings, there hadn’t been any since… well… him. And that was a very long time ago.

But after a while he hated to admit he found them… endearing. It was almost nice… it felt like what he used to imagine a peaceful life would be like when he was still naive enough to think true peace was achievable.

And yet… something was still missing.

Bee assumed it was the thrill of the missions he longed for. Considering Optimus was dead-set on sidelining him… Bee decided to resume one of his personal missions…

And thats when he finally reunited with the only bot he could ever consider his best friend. They had been apart for longer periods before… but somehow this felt different. This could be a new start. The war was over.

And then he lost Breakdown again.

To the same humans to claimed to be their allies no less.

He didn’t care how it must’ve looked when he demanded Optimus give him a status report on Breakdown’s condition when he was brought in.

Bee only got a lecture on how he was cutting it too close by getting involved with a race he knew G.H.O.S.T. was planning to bust.

So no, he didn’t really care what Optimus would think when he broke Breakdown out of prison. And he was only slightly hurt when Breakdown drove off ignoring his pleas of assistance. It wasn’t Breakdown’s fight… he had no right to be upset.

Of course Breakdown came through in the end… he always has.

And so what if they started meeting up periodically to race and talk and forget about everything else for s little while. Even if the times Bee had fallen into recharge in his arms and woken up alone hurt more than he’d like to admit.

Breakdown was quick to remind him, they were still on opposite sided. They could still betray each other in a moments notice… they both still had nothing to lose.

Except… that wasn’t quite true anymore.

Bee was carrying.

At first he didn’t do anything about it. Didn’t tell anyone. Didn’t even act like anything was different. A reaction he would later clarify was shock.

Then came the avoidance. The ticking time bomb until he had to do something about it was like a constant countdown in his head. He started seeking distractions. Lessons with the Terrans. Missions with Arcee. Drives with Breakdown. Anything to avoid thinking about the decisions he would need to make in the future. The very rapidly approaching future.

Breakdown was the first to know.

Looking back, Bee wished he had been able to break the news a little differently. He hadn’t intended to tell him that night at all… he wasn’t sure if he was ever planning on telling him period.

The reality of a sparkling was beginning to hit and for the first time in his life… Bumblebee couldn’t put himself at risk anymore.

And Breakdown was a risk.

It was supposed to be their last time… a chance to say goodbye, even if Breakdown didn’t know it. Instead in a moment of emotion, Bee accidentally let it slip.

He wasn’t expecting Breakdown to choose the path of caution too. To desperately pledge to stay by his side. To stop taking risks… to stop running… to finally face this emotion they’ve been dancing around for centuries

Bee almost felt guilty for assuming so negatively of the one bot he has ever loved, but then again Breakdown has never really done much to prove his loyalty besides never actually betraying him.

This was different though. This was their real new start. The desperation in Breakdown’s eyes, like he’d never seen before, was enough to prove it.

And he trusted Breakdown… because now they both had something to lose.

The hard part was convincing Optimus to do the same…

Bee is lucky he was always Prime’s favorite. Pretty sure any other bot could be charged with fraternizing with the enemy. And of course… the news didn’t go over very smoothly… Bee wasn’t expecting it to…

He’s grateful Breakdown survived to the end of the conversation, though there were a handful of blasters involved in the process.

But after the lectures and the disappointment and the numerous encounters of bots trying to convince Bumblebee to abandon whatever bond he had with Breakdown and allow the Autobots to assist in the Sparkling’s upbringing… Bee noticed for the first time just how hard BD was trying.

Breakdown never cared about what anyone thought of him. He never did things for the approval of others… so Bee knew it was his own decision when BD formerly defected from the Decepticons and took on the autobot mantel.

He’d never seen him more dedicated to anything before… and that’s when Bee knew. They were going to be okay.

He had only ever been a soldier before… he wasn’t sure if he was really cut out for this whole Carrier thing. Breakdown joked that the Terrans had been the trial run, and he had all the training he needed.

They both joked to avoid the spark numbing fear.

They had never experienced it before… not like this… the fear of losing.

Bee wasn’t sure when Breakdown became so… domestic. Sure, he still teased and flirted and ran his mouth. He still made bets he couldn’t win. But he also brought Bee his energon every morning, mixed exactly the way he liked it. And everytime Bee fell into recharge, he’d still be by his side when his optics opened again.

Bumblebee couldn’t help but be angry a little…

Why was he only now receiving this treatment? They’d known how they felt about each other for how long? How long had Bee tried to convince him to stay by his side?

But Breakdown didn’t need Bee’s anger to feel guilty. He barely felt deserving of the chances he’d been given long before this one.

And Bumblebee couldn’t bring himself to act on his anger… not when Breakdown was trying so hard for him.

For them.

Perhaps Bee’s dreams of peace weren’t so far off after all.

[archie-sunshine]

hi archie 😊 could i request some breakbee pretty please

still havent finished s3, i still love them though.

anyways what if they determine who tops by who wins the race

[legs-like-jelly]

Now that you had the energy to draw... Lee!Knock Out pls.........

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnno

just kidding, here u go!!

[taradactyls]

So I could be totally wrong but, I believe it was sort of expected that men/gentlemen lose their virginity before marriage in regency times. But I also there’s some fandom ‘debate’ about whether or not Mr Darcy would’ve had sex before getting married. So I was just curious about what your canon for Mr Darcy in T3W is. Is he a virgin or not?

I knew someone would ask me this eventually, haha. I've actually had really long conversations with my beta reader about this trying to figure it out. It sounds like this might all be stuff that you’ve already seen discussed in the fandom, but I’ve never thought about it deeply before and so these are new thoughts to me.

I keep going over the historical real-world likelihood, the authorial intent, and the text itself but I’m still not 100%. I’ll explain my thinking and what I find most likely, but here’s your warning that it’s not a clear cut yes/no.

Because on one hand, at that time period it was most common for men in his position to have seen sex workers or have casual encounters/mistresses with women from their estates. Though I do absolutely believe not all men did that, no matter how much wealth and power they had. To go back some centuries, William the Conqueror seemed to be famously celibate (no hints of male lovers either according to the biography I read) until his marriage, and there's no evidence of affairs after it either. The best guesses as to why are that it was due to his religious devotion and the problems that had arisen from himself being a bastard and not wanting to recreate that situation. Concerns over religion and illegitimate children would certainly still have been applicable in the regency to men who thought that way. And in modern times I've seen sex workers say that when an 18/21yo is booked in by his family/friends to 'become a man' often they end up just talking and agree to lie about the encounter. After all, it’s not like every man wants casual sex, even if they aren’t demisexual or something in that vein. But, statistically speaking, the precedent of regency gentlemen would make Darcy not a virgin.

On the other hand, just how aware was Jane Austen, the very religious daughter of a country rector, of the commonness of this? There’s a huge difference between knowing affairs and sex workers existed (and no one who had seen a Georgian newspaper could be blind to this) and realising that the majority of wealthy men saw sex workers at some point even if they condemned the more public and profligate affairs. The literature for young ladies at the time paints extramarital sex - including the lust of men outside of marriage - as pretty universally bad and dangerous. This message is seen from 'Pamela' and other gothic fiction to non-fiction conduct books which Jane Austen would have encountered. Here's something I found in 'Letters to a Young Lady' by the reverend John Bennett which I found particularly interesting as it's in direct conversation with other opinions of the era:

"A reformed rake makes the best husband." Does he? It would be very extraordinary, if he should. Besides, are you very certain, that you have power to reform him? It is a matter, that requires some deliberation. This reformation, if it is to be accomplished, must take place before marriage. Then if ever, is the period of your power. But how will you be assured that he is reformed? If he appears so, is he not insidiously concealing his vices, to gain your affections? And when he knows, they are secured, may he not, gradually, throw off the mask, and be dissipated, as before? Profligacy of this kind is seldom eradicated. It resembles some cutaneous disorders, which appear to be healed, and yet are, continually, making themselves visible by fresh eruptions. A man, who has carried on a criminal intercourse with immoral women is not to be trusted, His opinion of all females is an insult to their delicacy. His attachment is to sex alone, under particular modifications.

The definition of a rake is more than a man who has seen a sex worker once, it's about appearance and general conduct too, but again, would that distinction be made to young ladies? Because they seem to simply be continuously taught 'lust when unmarried is bad and beware men who you know engage in extramarital sex.' As a side note, Jane Austen certainly knew at least something about the mechanics of sex: her letters and literature she read alludes to it, and she grew up around farm animals in the countryside which is an education in itself.

We can also see from this exert that the school of thought seems to be 'reformed rake' vs 'never a rake' in contention for the title of best husband, there's no debate over whether a current rake is unsuitable for a young lady. And, from Willoughby to Wickham to Crawford, I think we have a very clear idea of Jane Austen's ideas of how likely it is notably promiscuous men can reform. This does not preclude the possibility that her disparaging commentary around their lust is based more on over-indulgence or the class of women they seduce, but it's undoubtedly a condemnation of such men directly in line with the first part of what John Bennett says so it's no stretch to believe she saw merit in the follow-on conclusions of the second part as well. Whether she would view it with enough merit to consider celibacy the only respectable option for unmarried men is a bit unclearer.

I did consider that perhaps Jane Austen consciously treated this as a grey area where she couldn’t possibly know what young men did (the same reasoning is why we never see the men in the dining room after the ladies retire, etc) and so didn't hold an opinion on men's extramarital encounters with sex workers/lower-class women at all, but I think there actually are enough hints in her works that this isn’t the case. Though, unsurprisingly, given the delicacy of the subject, there’s no direct mention of sex workers or gentlemen having casual lovers from among the lower-classes in her texts.

That also prevents us from definitively knowing whether she thought extramarital sex was so common, and as unremarkable, as most gentlemen treated it. But we do see from her commentary around the consequences of Maria Bertram and Henry Crawford's elopement that she had criticism of the double standards men and women were held to when violating sexual virtue. Another indication that she perhaps expected good men to be capable of waiting until marriage in the way that she very clearly believed women should. At the very least, a man who often indulges in extramarital sex does not seem to be one who would be considered highly by Jane Austen.

She makes a point of saying, in regards to not liking his wife, that Mr Bennet “was not of a disposition to seek comfort for the disappointment which his own imprudence had brought on, in any of those pleasures which too often console the unfortunate for their folly or their vice.” This must include affairs, though cheating on a wife cannot be a 1:1 equivalent of single young men sleeping around before marriage. However, the latter is generally critically accepted to be one of the flaws that Darcy lays at Wickham’s door along with gambling when talking about their youth and his “vicious propensities" and "want of principle." Though this could be argued that it’s more the extent or publicity of it (but remembering that it couldn't be anything uncommon enough that it couldn't be hidden from Darcy Sr. or explained away) rather than the act itself, or maybe seductions instead of paying women offering those services. I also believe Persuasion mentioning Sunday travelling as proof of thoughtless/immoral activity supports the idea that Jane Austen might have been religious enough that she would never create a hero who had extramarital sex.

So, taken all together this would make Darcy potentially a virgin, or, since I couldn't find absolute evidence of her opinions, leave enough room that he isn’t but extramarital sex isn’t a regular (or perhaps recent) thing and he would never have had anything so established as a mistress.

I’ve also been wondering, if Darcy isn’t a virgin, who would he have slept with? I’ve been musing on arguments for and against each option for weeks at this point. No romantasy has ever made me think about a fictional man's sexual habits so much as the question of Darcy's sexual history. What is my life.

Sex workers are an obvious answer, and the visits wouldn’t have raised any eyebrows. Discretion was part of their job, it was a clean transaction with no further responsibilities towards them, and effective (and reusable, ew) condoms existed at this time so there was little risk of children and no ability to exactly determine the paternity even if there was an accident. It was a fairly ‘responsible’ choice if one wanted no strings attached. In opposition to this, syphilis was rampant at the time, and had been known to spread sexually for centuries. Sex workers were at greater risk of it than anyone else and so the more sensible and risk-averse someone is (and I think Mr Darcy would be careful) the less likely they would be to visit sex workers. Contracting something that was known as potentially deadly and capable of making a future wife infertile if it spread to her could make any intelligent and cautious man think twice.

Servants and tenants of the estate are another simple and common answer. Less risk of stds, it can be based on actual attraction more than money (though money might still change hands), and is a bit more intimate. But Wickham’s called wicked for something very similar, when he dallies (whether he only got to serious flirting, kissing, or sleeping with them I don’t think we can conclusively say) with the common women of Meryton: “his intrigues, all honoured with the title of seduction, had been extended into every tradesman's family.” And it isn't as though Wickham had any personal duty towards those people beyond the claims of basic dignity. Darcy, who is shown to have such respect and understanding for his responsibilities towards the people of his estate and duties of a landlord, would keenly feel if any of his actions were leading his servants/tenants astray and down immoral paths. Servants, especially, were considered directly under the protection of the family whose house they worked in. I think it's undoubtable that Mrs Reynolds (whose was responsible for the wellbeing - both physically and spiritually - of the female servants) would not think so well of Mr Darcy if he had experimented with maids in his youth. It would reflect badly on her if a family entrusted their daughter to her care and she 'lost her virtue' under her watch. Daughters/widows of others living on the estate not under the roof of Pemberley House are a little more likely, but still, if he did have an affair with any of them I can only think it possible when he was much younger and did not feel his duties quite so strongly. Of course lots of real men didn't care about any of this, but Darcy is so far from being depicted as careless about his duties that the narrative makes a point of how exceptional his quality of care was. Frankly, it's undeniable that none of Jane Austen's heroes were flippant about their responsibilities towards those under their protection. I cannot serious entertain an interpretation that makes Darcy not, at his current age, at least, cognizant of the contemporary problems inherent in sleeping with servants or others on his estate.

A servant in a friend’s house would remove some of that personal responsibility, but transfer it to instead be leading his friend’s servants astray and in a manner which he is less able to know about if a child did result. That latter remains a problem even if we move the setting to his college, so not particularly likely for his character as we know it… though it wouldn’t be unusual for someone to be more unthinking and reckless in their teenage years than they are at twenty-eight so I don’t think having sex then can be ruled out. Kissing I can much more easily believe, especially when at Oxford or Cambridge, but every scenario of sleeping with a lower-class woman has some compelling arguments against it especially the closer we get to the time of the novel.

Men did of course also have affairs with women of ranks similar to their own, though given Jane Austen’s well-known feelings towards men who ‘ruined’ the virtue of young ladies we can safely say that Darcy never slept with an unwed middle- or upper-class woman. Any decent man would have married them out of duty if it got so far; but if he was the sort to let it get so far, I think it impossible Jane Austen would consider him respectable. Widows are a possibility, but again, the respectable thing to do would be to marry them. Perhaps a poorer merchant’s widow would be low enough that marriage is off the table but high enough that the ‘leading astray’ aspect loses its master-servant responsibilities (though the male-female ‘protect the gentler sex’ aspect remains) but his social circle didn’t facilitate meeting many ladies like that. Plus, an affair with a woman in society would remove many layers of privacy and anonymity that sex-workers and lower-class lovers provided by simply being unremarkable to the world at large. It carries a far greater risk of scandal and a heavier sense of immorality in the terms of respecting a woman’s purity which classism prevented from applying so heavily to lower-class women.

I think it’s important to note here that something that removes the need to think about duties of landlords towards the lower-classes or gentlemen towards gentlewomen is having affairs with other men of a similar rank. But, aside from the risk of scandal and what could be called the irresponsibility of engaging in illegal acts, it’s almost certain that Jane Austen would never have supported this. For a devout author in this era the way I’m calculating likelihoods makes it not even a possibility. But if you want to write a different fanfiction (and perhaps something like a break-up could explain why Darcy doesn’t seem to have any closer friend than someone whom he must have only met two or so years ago despite being in society for years before that) it does have that advantage over affairs with women of equal- and lower-classes. I support alternate interpretations entirely – it just isn’t how I’m deciding things in this instance.

I keep coming back to the conclusion that, at the very least, Darcy hasn’t had sex recently and it was never a common occurrence. It wouldn’t surprise me if Jane Austen felt he hadn’t done it ever. Kissing, as we can see from all the parlour games at the time, wasn’t viewed as harshly, so I think he’s likely made out with someone before. But in almost every situation it does seem that the responsible and religious thing to do (which Jane Austen values so highly) is for it to never have progressed to sex. I also don’t think it conflicts with his canon characterisation to say that he wouldn’t regard sexual experience as a crucial element of his life thus far, and his personality isn’t driven to pursue pleasure for himself, so it’s entirely possible that he would never go out of his way to seek it. So, I’m inclined to think that the authorial and textual evidence is in favour of Darcy being a virgin even if the real-world contemporary standard is the opposite. (Though both leave enough room for exceptions that I’m not going to argue with anyone who feels differently; and even if you agree with all my points, you might simply weight authorial intent/textual evidence/contemporary likelihoods differently than I do and come to a different conclusion).

Remember that even if Darcy is a virgin this wouldn’t necessarily equate to lack of knowledge, only experience. There were plenty of books and artwork focused on sex, and Darcy, studious man that he is, would no doubt pay attention to what knowledge his friends/male relatives shared. Though some of it (Looking especially at you, 'Fanny Hill, Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure') should NEVER be an example of appropriate practice for taking a woman's virginity. Darcy would almost certainly have been taught directly or learnt through exposure to other men talking to make sex good for a woman – it was a commonly held misconception (since Elizabethan England, I believe) that women had to orgasm to conceive. It would be in his interests as an empathetic husband, and head of a family, to know how to please his wife.

Basically, I’m convinced Darcy isn’t very experienced, if at all, and will be learning with Elizabeth. But he does have a lot of theoretical knowledge which he’s paid careful attention to and is eager to apply.

[maxicaiman]

the people (me, Arin, and Dan (headmates)) demand (ask politely for) dad Breakdown and baebae Swiftshot

- Bel / @shenaniganeryfromtheabyss

he's not used to this 💔

[starry-bi-sky]

*stares at disciple SQQ falling into the abyss au*

oh you are so "SY-is-SJ" coded. You are so "fell into the abyss and suddenly remembered that oh i've been Shen Jiu this whole time, not just Shen Yuan. we are one and the same". you are so 'crumbling under the weight of the system and being in the abyss and the despair of never really being free and having suffered in both lives' built. you are so 'scrambling to come to terms with your existence and battling with which life is really yours, only to realize that they both are'. You are primed for going off the rails.

I'm so normal about this guys. i promise.