#HOW DARE YOU CONDAL

[survivinglifesstruggles]

IN THIS HOUSE, DREAMFYRE IS THE (Dragon) MOTHER OF DROGON, VISERION, & RHAEGAL!

[navree]

people who get angry at me for saying that pissy book purist fans are always welcome to not watch hotd if they hate the changes so much are so funny because, like, i am a fan of the mortal instruments. not only am i fan, i read those books at a formative time in my life that has left me with a lifelong emotional investment in that story even over a decade after the fact. and the mortal instruments got adapted into the shadowhunters show. the shadowhunters show. you think i don't know what it's like when a tv series adaptation makes a bunch of changes to the source material that i am viscerally against?? when a book series whose last installment i stayed up until one in the morning to read before a final exam got adapted into the shadowhunters show????

thing is, after watching the pilot and realizing they were making a bunch of changes i didn't like and wasn't enjoying and that i didn't like the show, i stopped watching the show and never ever went back. it is in fact that easy. especially if you're not a little piss baby who hates women.

[j-k-writes]

The Bronze Targaryen - 11

Summary - War is brewing in Westeros, but Rhaenyra is determined to avoid it for as long as possible (to the frustration of her husband).

Warnings - General HOTD warnings, canon character death, minor violence between family members ((Y/N) and Daemon)

The end of season one! I'm putting this series on a bit of a hiatus while I figure out my plans for season two (thank you, Ryan Condal, for making my life miserable) but do not fret I have stories to hold y'all over in the mean time.

“What is our standing?” 

“We have thirty knights, a hundred crossbowmen, and three hundred men at arms.” Daemon spoke, “Dragonstone is relatively easy to defend but as an instrument of conquest, our army leaves much to be desired. We have sent word to my loyal men in the City Watch. I’ll have some support there but I cannot speak to the numbers.” 

“We already have declarations from Celtigar and Staunton, Massey, Darklyn, Bar Emmon.” 

“As well as Coldwater, Sheet, and Tollett.” (Y/N) turned to Rhaenyra, “Runestone stands behind you. I have no doubt Lady Arryn will as well, the Vale will not turn cloak against their own kin.” 

He watched as Rhaenyra gave him a grateful smile and placed a marker on the table. 

“Riverrun was always a close friend to your father, your grace. With Prince Daemon’s acquiescence, I’ve already sent raven to Lord Grover.” 

Both (Y/N) and Rhaenyra paused at Maester Gerardys’ words, they both looked up at the Prince. (Y/N) narrowed his eyes at his father, who did not look the least apologetic as Rhaenyra spoke, “Lord Grover is fickle and easily swayed. He will need to be convinced of the strength of our position and that we will support him should it come to war.” 

“I am going to treat with him myself.” (Y/N) raised an eyebrow at his father’s boldness, watching as he and Rhaenyra glared at each other from across the room. His father had been falling into tendencies (Y/N) had hoped he’d grown out of these past days, and the new Consort was unsure how to feel about it. 

“What of Storm’s End and Winterfell?” 

“There has never lived a Stark who forgot an oath. And with House Stark the North will follow.” 

“Lord Borros Baratheon will need to be reminded of his father’s promises.” Rhaenyra said, voice tight. More markers were placed around the table, the promise of war becoming stronger and stronger with each clang against the wooden table. “What news from Driftmark?” 

“Lord Corlys sails for Dragonstone.” Rhaenys said. 

“To declare for his Queen?” (Y/N) asked. 

“The Velayron fleet is in my husband’s yoke.” (Y/N) frowned, unable to stop the hot flash of anger in his chest at her words. “He decides where they sail.” 

“We shall pray for both you and your husband's support. Just as we prayed nightly for the Sea Snake’s return to good health. There’s no port on the Narrow Sea that would dare to make an enemy of the Velaryon fleet.” Rhaenyra spoke before (Y/N) could open his mouth to speak his offense at Rhaenys’ answer. “And our enemies?” 

“We have no friends among the Lannisters. Tyland has served the hand too long to turn against him. And Otto Hightower needs the Lannister fleet.” 

“Without the Lannisters we are not like to find any allies west of the Golden Tooth.” Both (Y/N) and Rhaenyra frowned. 

“The Riverlands are essential, your Grace.” Daemon spoke. (Y/N) cringed inwardly at the knowledge that Daemon was making good points for all of his boldness and made eye contact with Rhaenyra from across the table.

“Pray forgive my bluntness, your Grace. But talk of men is moot. Your cause owns a power that not has not been seen in this world since the days of Old Valyria. Dragons.” 

“The Greens have dragons as well.” Rhaenyra responded. 

“They have three adults, by my count. We have Syrax, Vermithor-” (Y/N) winced at his father’s words, taking in a deep breath as his father continued on his rant. “-Caraxes, and Meleys. Your sons have Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes. Baela has Moondancer.” 

“Daemon none of our dragons have been to war.” 

(Y/N) grabbed his father’s arm, bringing him in close so that his words did not go any further than their small shared bubble. “And need I remind you, we do not have Vermithor until I am recovered.” He bit out, face hot as he spoke. 

Daemon ignored him, causing (Y/N) to throw his head back and sigh, “There are also unclaimed dragons. Seasmoke still resides on Driftmark. Silverwing dwells on the Dragonmont, still riderless. Then there are the three wild dragons, all of whom nest here.” 

“And who is to ride them?” Rhaenyra sounded as exasperated with Daemon as (Y/N) felt. 

“Dragonstone has 13 to their 4. I also have a score of eggs incubating in the Dragonmont. Now…we need a place to gather, a toehold large enough to house a sizable host. Here, at Harrenhal.” Daemon spoke, ignoring his Queen’s question. “We cut off the west, surround Kingslanding with the Dragons and we could have every Green head mounted on spikes before the fucking moon turns.” 

“Your Grace.” Ser Erryk spoke up, and (Y/N) relaxed, grateful for the interruption. “A ship has been sighted offshore. A lone galleon flying a banner of a three-headed green dragon.” 

(Y/N) straightened in his seat, grabbing his cane as his father shouted out commands to the men around them. He stood making his way toward his wife, she was frowning as Daemon exited the room flanked by guards and lords. 

“Follow him.” Rhaenyra said, “Make sure he doesn’t do anything rash.” 

“And you?” 

The smile she gave him did not reach her eyes, “Just go.”

(Y/N) kept one hand on his cane and the other on his sword as he watched Otto Hightower and his posse of Knights approach. Otto looked between (Y/N) and Daemon, chin up in the air and posture straight as the oak branch up his ass. 

“I come at the behest of the Dowager Queen Alicent, mother of King Aegon, Second of His Name, Lord and Protector of the Seven Kingdoms.” He spoke. “I’ve been directed to deliver her message only to Princess Rhaenyra. Where is the Princess?” 

Otto and his men were startled at the sound of Syrax’s screech overhead, causing (Y/N)’s lips to curve up in a smile. Syrax’s landing caused stones of the bridge to crack and fall off the side, and the she-dragon continued to growl and screech at the men as Rhaenyra dismounted and walked through the crowd. She took her place between (Y/N) and Daemon, turning to face Otto. 

“Princess Rhaenyra.” 

“I’m Queen Rhaenyra now. And you all are traitors to the realm.” Rhaenyra spat. 

Otto took her statement in stride, continuing on as if she’d never spoken. “King Aegon Targaryen, Second of His Name in his wisdom and desire for peace-” (Y/N) scoffed, but yet again Otto continued on. “-is offering terms. Acknowledge Aegon as king and swear obeisance before the Iron Throne. In exchange, His Grace will confirm your possession of Dragonstone. It will pass to your trueborn son, Jacaerys, upon your death. Lucerys will be confirmed as the legitimate heir to Runestone-” 

“He is my legitimate heir.” (Y/N) stepped forward, but Rhaenyra shot her arm out, blocking his path. 

“-and all the lands and holdings of House Royce.” Otto looked smug as (Y/N) begrudgingly heeded his wife and stepped back. “Your sons Aegon and Viserys will also be given places of high honor at court: Aegon the Younger as the King’s squire, Viserys as his cupbearer. Finally, the King, in his good grace, will pardon any knight or lord who conspired against his ascent.” 

“I would rather feed my sons to the dragons than have them carry shields and cups for your drunken usurper cunt of a king.” (Y/N) said, hand flexing around his sword. 

“Aegon Targaryen sits the Iron Throne. He wears the Conqueror’s crown, wields the Conqueror’s sword, has the Conqueror’s name. He was anointed by a septon of the faith in the eyes of thousands. Every symbol of legitimacy belongs to him. And then there is Stark, Tully, Baratheon. Houses that have already received and are at present, considering generous terms from their king.” Otto spoke, causing (Y/N) to laugh. 

“Generous? You have offered us things we already have.” 

“Stark, Tully, Baratheon all swore to me when King Viserys named me his heir.” Rhaenyra said, and (Y/N) could see the anger deep inside her bubbling to the surface. 

“Stale oaths will not put you on the Iron Throne, Princess. The succession changed the day your father sired a son. I only regret that you and he were the last to see the truth of it.” 

“You are no more Hand than Aegon is king.” Rhaenyra moved toward the man before (Y/N) could have time to respond. She rushed the man, seething, grabbing the silver hand pinned on his chest. She ripped the pendant off, tossing it over the side of the bridge. “Fucking traitor.” 

Once again Otto was undisturbed by the show of anger, “Grand Maester.” 

“What the fuck is this?” He heard his father ask as Otto grabbed a folded-up piece of parchment from the Grand Maester, handing it to Rhaenyra. (Y/N) could not see Rhaenyra’s reaction from where he was standing, but his stomach turned at the sight of her angry posture softening ever so slightly as she looked at the paper. 

“Queen Alicent has not forgotten the love you once had for each other. No blood need be spilled, so the realm can carry on in peace.” Otto said softly to Rhaenyra. “Queen Alicent eagerly awaits your answer.” 

“She can have her answer now, stuffed in her father’s mouth along with his withered cock. Let’s end this mummer’s farce.” Daemon and the knights around him drew their swords, and (Y/N) smiled as Otto’s knights tensed. (Y/N) took a step forward, not bothering to draw his sword. (The scabbard was really only by his side for show, for he was practically useless with it until he could manage to bring his arm above his head without aggravating the wound in his shoulder.) “Ser Erryk, bring me Lord Hightower so I may take the pleasure myself.” 

Syrax roared, causing the stones they were standing on to shake and the men behind Otto drew their weapons in retaliation. Before anyone could make a move Rhaenyra turned on them. 

“No.” She said, and the men around him stood down. (Y/N) raised an eyebrow at her, but she did not look at him as she continued. “Kingslanding will have my answer on the morrow.” 

(Y/N) gaped as Otto Hightower and his crowd of traitors walked away completely whole. Daemon huffed and puffed in frustration the whole way up to the keep, but (Y/N) paid his grumblings no mind. His shock was aimed wholly on Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra would not look at him as they walked, or limped in (Y/N)’s case, and (Y/N) feared the worst. He bit his tongue as the council resumed, sorting through his scattered thoughts before he said something rash in front of the council. 

He’d only wished his father could have the same sort of self control. 

“It’s no easy thing for a man to be a dragonslayer. But dragons can kill dragons. And have.” Daemon spoke. “The simple truth is this: we have more dragons than Aegon, even with (Y/N) recovering.” 

“Viserys spoke often of the Valyrian histories. I know them well. When dragons flew to war-” Rhaenyra sighed, “Everything burned.” 

“War has its casualties whether dragons are involved or not.” He mumbled from his seat. His voice was merely a whisper but Rhaenyra heard him anyway and shot him a subtle glare. 

“I do not wish to rule over a kingdom of ash and bone.” She said it to the room, but it was clear the words were directed to her husband and uncle. 

“Are you considering the Hightowers’ terms, your Grace?” (Y/N) straightened to attention as Lord Bartimos asked the question at the forefront of his mind, on everyone's mind, apparently. 

“As Queen, what is my true duty to the realm, Lord Bartimos? Ensuring peace and unity? Or that I sit the Iron Throne, no matter the cost?” (Y/N) sighed at her words, frustration building as Daemon responded. 

“That’s your father talking.” 

“My father’s dead. And he chose me as his successor. To defend the realm, not cast it headlong into war.” 

“They have already declared war, Rhaenrya.” (Y/N) could not help the bite in his words. His frustration and exhaustion finally boiling over despite his attempts at holding it down until he and Rhaenyra were in private. 

“Clear the room.” The lords looked between the two warily but they left without complaints. As soon as the door shut behind the last lord Rhaenyra rounded on (Y/N), practically sneering. “Does the promise of war excite you?” 

“I just ended one war, Rhaenyra. My last wish is to start another, but you cannot bend the knee to the Hightowers.” (Y/N) sighed, collapsing into his chair. The action brought attention to the wound in his shoulder, and he swallowed a groan of pain. He was dreading this war, but he was not going to sit in denial. Unless they were to take the Hightower’s terms, and (Y/N) would die before he let that happen, war was inevitable. 

“If you could take the Iron Throne without putting Otto Hightower’s head on a spike, would you?” (Y/N) could not help but scoff at her question. 

“Are you not angry?” 

“I should declare war because I’m angry?” 

“No.” (Y/N) said between gritted teeth, “Because it’s your duty as Queen to crush rebellion.” 

“My oath reaches beyond our personal ambitions.” Did she not understand? How could she not understand what this slight meant for their family? 

“Personal ambitions? Rhaenyra this is your birthright and they have stolen it from you the same way they tried to steal it from Luke. To bend the knee now-” 

“Shut up and listen to me. You are acting like your father.” (Y/N)’s mouth shut with a click, his words dying on his tongue. Rhaenyra continued on, ignoring the rising anger in her husband. “My father told me something when he named me heir, The Conqueror’s Dream.” 

“A dream?” (Y/N) scoffed, but Rhaenyra ignored him. 

“A Song of Ice and Fire, a coming war against the darkness in the North. The realm must be united if it is to survive, so you must understand why I am so reluctant to plunge it into war.” She spoke with such certainty that (Y/N) almost wanted to concede to her. 

Almost. “You are in denial, Rhaenyra.” He said, forcing his voice level. He was not his father and he would not take his frustration out on his wife, even if she was part of its origin. “There is to be a war over this. I do not want it, but I have accepted it and so should you.”

(Y/N) felt himself drifting off in his chair as the lords argued around him, barely letting Rhaenyra get a word in. His body throbbed, a few new bruises added onto them courtesy of his father’s drunken anger. 

He’d sought the man out last night, too keyed up from his argument with Rhaenyra to go to their bedroom. He’d knocked on Daemon’s door hoping to drown in the wine his father no doubt had already brought up from the kitchens. Instead he’d found himself thrown into the wall after a particularly nasty screaming match that had multiple guards running into the room.  

One snide comment about Rhaenyra's choices was all it had taken for (Y/N)’s already simmering anger to rise to the surface. Rhaenyra could frustrate them both to the grave, but she was still their Queen, and Daemon needed to give her his respect, especially in the presence of the other lords.

His father had not seen it that way. 

“The Lord of the Tides, Lord Corlys Velaryon, and his wife, the Princess Rhaenys Targaryen.” (Y/N) snapped to attention at the sound of Ser Eyrrk’s voice. 

“My lords.” Lord Corlys nodded to the lords around them as he limped down the steps and toward Rhaenyra. He looked well despite his injuries although the grimace he gave with every step betrayed just how healed he truly was. 

“Lord Corlys. It brings much relief to see you hale and healthy again. I extend my deepest condolences for the loss of your son, and heir.” Rhaenyra said. 

“I’m very sorry about your father, Princess. He was a good man.” Corlys looked around the room, gaze falling on (Y/N) for a moment before he spoke again. “Where is Daemon?” 

“There were other concerns which demanded my father’s attention.” (Y/N) responded, and Rhaenyra pursed her lips, having heard about these other concerns from a concerned guard the night before. She had not been happy at his father’s regressions in anger management, even less so with his decision to take his frustrations out on his already injured son. 

Corlys hummed, obviously too familiar with Daemon’s temper. “Your declared allies?” 

“Yes.” 

“Too few to win a war for the throne.” 

“Well, we would also hope to have the support of Houses Arryn, Baratheon, and Stark.” 

“Hope is the fool’s ally.” (Y/N) frowned at the Sea Snake’s words, the lord of the tides was correct in his statement but that did not mean (Y/N) had to appreciate the sentiment. 

“House Arryn shares blood with my house, but all of them swore oaths to me.” Rhaenyra was losing her patience. 

“As did House Hightower, if I remember.” 

“As did you, Lord Corlys.” 

The room went silent at Rhaenyra’s statement, but (Y/N) simply smiled. He hid his soft laugh behind his hand turning in his chair to get a better view of Lord Corlys as the Lord seemed to ponder her unspoken question. 

‘To who are you loyal to?’ 

“Your father’s realm was one of justice and honor. Our houses are bound by common blood and common cause. This Hightower treason cannot stand. You have the full support of our fleet and House, your Grace.” Lord Corlys bowed his head to Rhaenyra who sputtered. She recovered quickly, turning to look at Rhaenys who simply nodded with a smile. 

“You honor me, Lord Corlys, Princess Rhaenys.” She straightened, letting her demeanor shift back to that of Queen. “But, as I said to my bannermen, I made a promise to my father to hold the realm strong and united. If war’s first stroke is to fall, it will not be by my hand.” 

“You do not mean to act?” 

“Taking caution does not mean standing fast.” Rhaenyra shot him a subtle yet harsh look as she spoke. “I wish to know who my allies are before I send them to war.” 

“The consequence of Laenor’s sacrifice and my near-demise in the Stepstones is that we now control them. I took care to fully garrison the territory this time. A total blockade of the shipping lanes will be in place in days, if not already. The Triarchy have been routed. The Narrow Sea is ours. If we further seal the gullet we can cut off all seaborne travel and trade to Kingslanding.” The mood of the room immediately brightened at Corlys’ words. 

“I shall take Meleys and patrol the Gullet myself.” 

“When we drain the Narrow Sea, we can surround Kingslanding, lay siege to the Red Keep, and force the Greens’ surrender.” 

(Y/N) smiled at the sudden mood change amongst the lords of their council. Rhaenyra herself was not immune to the feeling and (Y/N) watched as her mouth curved up in a small smile as she watched the room. “If we are to have enough swords to surround Kingslanding, we must first secure the support of Winterfell, the Eyrie, and Storm’s End.” 

“I’ll prepare the ravens, your Grace.” Maester Gerardys moved to leave the room but Jace interrupted before he could. 

“We should bear those messages.” Everyone turned to look at the young prince. “Dragons can fly faster than ravens and they’re more convincing. Send us.” 

(Y/N) smiled at his son, “He’s right.” 

“Very well.” Rhaenyra caught his eye from across the table and smiled. “Prince Jacaerys will fly north. First to the Eyrie, to see my mother’s cousin and his father’s liege Lady, the Lady Jeyne Arryn, and then to Winterfell to treat with Lord Cregan Stark for the support of the North. Prince Lucerys will fly south to Storm’s End and treat with Lord Borros Baratheon. We must remind these lords of the oaths they swore. And the cost of breaking them.”

The gods, old and new, gave him no warning that day. There was no warning, no omen, for him to heed as they said their goodbyes. As he looks back on that day he wonders what he would have done differently if there had been. 

“It's been said that as Targaryens, we are closer to gods than to men. And the Iron Throne puts us a touch closer, perhaps. But, if we are to serve the Seven Kingdoms we must answer to their gods.” Rhaenyra spoke. “If you take this errand, you go as messenger not as warriors. You must take no part in any fighting. Swear it to me now.” 

“Under the eyes of the old and new gods.” (Y/N) added as the book was presented to his sons, and Jace smiled at the obvious disdain in which (Y/N) regarded The Seven. (Y/N) looked over his boys as they swore, locking eyes with their mother as they did so. Jace was as confident as (Y/N) had expected a boy of his age to be. He was still green and eager to prove himself to the realm. 

“Thank you.” Rhaenyra turned to Jace. “Cregan Stark is closer to your age than to mine. I would hope, that as men, you can find some common interest.” 

“The North follows the Old Gods as House Royce does, Jace.” (Y/N) added, smiling. “Do with that what you will.” 

Jace smiled back at him, head held high. “Yes, your Grace.” 

Luke was less confident, which brought a small frown to (Y/N)’s face. He did not comment on it, remembering himself when he first began to fall under the pressure and critique of the court. Luke was younger than he was when Rhea died, and Daemon brought him to Kingslanding, and he no doubt felt more pressure than (Y/N) could have imagined at his age. 

“Storm’s End is a short flight from here. Lord Borros is an eternally proud man. He will be honored to host a prince of the realm and his dragon. I expect you will receive a very warm welcome.” 

“Yes, Mother- your Grace.” Luke stumbled, and (Y/N) gave him a reassuring smile. 

He touched his shoulder gently, bringing his voice to a whisper so that only Luke could hear him. “Do not worry, tresy. You are simply going to remind Lord Borros of his oath, if you cannot convince him he is already lost to us.” 

Luke nodded, and (Y/N) kissed his head. He grabbed Jace next, who only gave a small protest as his father laughed and kissed his cheek. All three Royce’s turned to look at their Queen who nodded. 

“Go to it then.” 

(Y/N) had not thought to be worried as he watched his eldest sons fly off. It was only a few days later, when they received a raven assuring them of Jace’s safe arrival in the Vale, that (Y/N) began to worry about his younger son, and even then, he brushed it off. He told himself that perhaps Luke had just forgotten to write, and he did not know Lord Borros, but he would not put it past the man to not bother sending a raven. Rhaenyra began to worry immediately, watching the sky at every opportunity as if Luke would suddenly appear on Arrax to assure his mother of his safety. She would not hear (Y/N)'s excuses, and months later, in his grief, (Y/N) realized he was simply doing what he had yelled at Rhaenyra for doing not days before. 

Living in denial. 

They were in a council meeting when Daemon received the news. (Y/N) was immediately on edge at the look on his father’s face as he took both he and Rhaenyra aside. Rhaenyra and (Y/N) watched as his father struggled to find the words, turning his body so that he did not have to look at them as he spoke. 

(Y/N) did not need Daemon to speak to know what the raven had said. 

He vaguely remembers Rhaenyra’s gasp as Daemon finally got the words out. She turned away from both men as she processed the words, doubling over and clutching her stomach, sobs began to rack her body. (Y/N) stumbled as the voices in the room faded from him and his vision tunneled, Daemon reached to steady him but (Y/N) pushed his father away. He threw his cane across the room with a shout as the tears began to fall. His hands met the council table with a loud slam and he swept the nearest items off the table. The clatter of the items meeting the stone floor was not loud enough to drown out his curses and pleading words. 

His father approached him when his body finally gave up on him, his legs unable to support his weight without his cane to steady him. He held him up, pulling him close to his chest. As (Y/N) sobbed, fists pounding against his father’s chest, Daemon leaned in close. 

“An eye for an eye, a son for a son.” Daemon cupped his cheeks, forcing (Y/N) to look at him through his tears. “Your son will be avenged.”

---

Translations -

Tresy - son

[beware-of-pity]

I need people who would die on the hill of "Fire and Blood is completely unreliable, therefore we cannot trust anything that's written in it" to open their eyes and read a book that is similar to the structure that Fire and Blood uses to realize how wrong of a statement that is. I know that this will probably be received as a very hot take but I do not believe that everything needs to be analyzed or has to have a deeper meaning behind it. The curtain can be blue and there doesn't have to be a reason for the curtain to be blue other than the fact that it's just blue (hope someone gets the reference). Ryan Condall obviously disagrees with that, because in his quest to recreate his own 'magnum opus' of a 'Shakespearian tragedy', as he always likes to refer to it as, he has instead created the equivalent of a dumpster on fire next to the other bigger dumpster on fire that was Game of thrones.

Bland, whitewashed characters with little to no turmoil or agency going on are revered as complex and nuantical on Twitter. And if you even dare to disagree, you're immediately sentenced to the stake. Characters like Alicent and Rhaenyra could literally not even be in the episode and nothing would change. Rhaenyra was in episode 4 for not even 5 minutes and with everything going on in it you wouldn't even have noticed that. She should have been there, leading the council as Cole marched on rook's rest, her only available connection to the mainland in the crownlands, apart from Claw Isle, after duskendale fell to the greens and instead her only scene in such climactic episode is her walk of shame returning home and her, rightfully, getting scolded by her son for thinking that she could still sue for peace with Alicent, the mother of her son's murderer. The show makes the decision to have Rhaenys volunteer instead of having Rhaenyra send her there so that later when Rhaenys dies Rhaenyra cannot be blamed for it. The fundamental changes of characters like Alicent don't work because the writers are not able to sustain such changes from the source material they are deriving the story from. Going from leading the council that would place Aegon on the throne, to never even being in on the plan to usurp Rhaenyra, that her father created, is such a letdown for such a political savy character like book Alicent.

Aging her down, to Rhaenyra's age, and making these two childhood best friends, was a mistake.

What is very evident is that the showrunners have no clue, so far, what to do with a character like show Alicent. If she's not going to lead the council when Aegon is bedridden and Aemond is off to fight in the Riverlands, why doesn't she just leave?

Going from an active participant in a usurpation from somebody who needs to miss-hear or misunderstand her dying husband for her to get in on the plan, only so there is an excuse to get her on the war council is bad writing.

Making people believe that Rhaenyra was usurped because of a misunderstanding, and not only because she was a woman, is bad writing. And going to the extremes, of having these two 'betray' each other in order to have a reason to make Rhaenyra look bad in the eyes of her rivals is bad writing. Rhaenyra could have been the perfect heir, and even only because she was a woman, Otto and Alicent would have usurped her either way.

Going back to the point of this post; Timelines, ages, events, who got married to who, how many kids they had, things that you can quantify are not something that can be made up, used as rumors or form of propaganda in a history book. What you make up as a rumor is sexual escapades and a young girl seducing her sworn shield who has watched over her since she was seven. Things that can make a person look bad to glorify or uphold the good of someone else alongside all the other stuff that happens behind closed doors and makes you question where the information is coming from.

I find it so odd that the aggressive marketing team for the second season was all about choosing your side. Lol, what is there to even choose? Choose between the overly sanctified Rhaenyra, who god forbid is still searching for the peace that has already been thrown over the cliff long ago, and is not allowed yet to make a mistake. Or, Alicent, the pathetic hypocrite who made her bed and is not willing to admit it. Anything interesting about these two women is completely being cut so that Ryan Condall and Co. can continue to spread the "men are bad and violent, women are the gentle peacemakers that don't want war." which is leaning a little too heavy for my taste into gender essentialism which would make every choice they have ever made about these two characters more misogynistic than any of the action of the actual misogynistic characters in this story. Taking away the very little agency these characters had and constantly making them the perpetual victims of the patriarchy and completely sidelining any sort of character traits that they may actually develop through their actions had they actually been taking any, doesn't work for me.

This show was a mistake.

[matherofdragons]

How dare they try to make the Greens the bad ones?

First it was the claims that Alicent and Cole are responsible for the death of Jaeharys. God forbid a widow have some fun. While I have issues with her sudden relationship with Cole and the sex scenes that are presented as raw while the ones on the black side as intimate, it doesn't make them responsible for the death of a child.

Then came the claims it was Aegon's fault, that he was a bad father, that it was his drinking and indifference that caused it, but he was genuinely nice with with his children.

The real villain is Condal and his writing team. They are for Rhaenyra, fine but try to present the story neutrally. The whole B&C was butchered in favour to make the Blacks look less bad. It's supposed to be tragic. Where was the Sophie choice? Where was "Your mother wants you dead?"? It was just a "mistake". We all know it was not. It was "a son for a son".

Season 2 Episode 2 just continued the trend. They knew people will sympathise with Helaena and Aegon and will start hating the other side. So they banged their heads together and came up with a episode made to destroy them.

The funeral was depicted as a publicity stunt. While Luke's being a genuine family ceremony. See guys the Greens are dysfunctional. They aren't a real family. Why didn't they use Rhaenys' massacre of the smallfolk as PR? Did they forgot it happened?

The grandmother doesn't want to attend as she's too busy thinking about the d, mother doesn't want to attend, father is told NOT to attend, no other relatives around. Luke's ceremony was the complete opposite of this. B

Aemond was too busy being dotted by a pseudo mommy to participate in the upcoming warplans or be there for his family. He somehow knows that it was Daemon just because. Is he getting visions like Helaena?

Aegon was denied a scene with wife, so they can grief together. They just had to pass each other to make it seem he's indifferent to her. Alicent isn't there to grief with him, contracting again with Jace and Rhaenyra who griefed together. I guess she was more interested in Cole's private parts.

Otto throws a really pathetic tantrum over muh ratcatchers and uses it as an excuse to shit on Aegon for 5 minutes. Because Aegon is bad for seeking justice for his son. And why did the small folk react so badly? Was killing few people who could have been part in the murder of the Prince worse than the stunt Rhaenys pulled?

And how can I forget the dog. The dog is making people sympathetic towards child butchers. Lovely.

Bravo Sara Hess! Bravo Condal! You truly outdid yourselves.

Justice for my Prince Jaeharys! Cole did the right thing. If it wasn't for Mahsaria his plan would have worked!

Bonus for the book version!

[thevelaryons]

How fucking long are the writers going to drag out the deadbeat father shitck with Corlys, do you think? He leaves his black children from his mistress to rot on the streets but his mixed kids with the white wife are living it up in the castle life.

I am loath to defend any writing choices made by Condal and his team but Corlys IS a canonical deadbeat father to Addam & Alyn. It’s just that the show has changed the context from the book, as it always does, so now everything looks far worse (for dramatic effect because the writing on HOTD is soap opera quality).

Though yeah, the writers are definitely dragging out the whole deadbeat father thing because soon after his wife died in the book, Corlys was bringing his sons forth to be legitimized and made his heirs:

None dared name her liar, however…for it was Laenor’s own father, Lord Corlys himself, who brought the boys to Prince Jacaerys for the Sowing.

.

Not long after Addam of Hull had proved himself by flying Seasmoke, Lord Corlys went so far as to petition Queen Rhaenyra to remove the taint of bastardy from him and his brother. When Prince Jacaerys added his voice to the request, the queen complied. Addam of Hull, dragonseed and bastard, became Addam Velaryon, heir to Driftmark.

There was no hesitance in what he was doing:

The Sea Snake seemed more than eager to accept these newfound grandsons.

Only thing that was really stopping him from acknowledging the existence of his bastard children before is that his wife would never have tolerated it:

Only after the death of Princess Rhaenys did Lord Corlys at last feel able to bring his bastards safely forward.

In the show, he’s just floundering around and getting shamed by various family members one after another.

Personally, I do think Alyn deserves to vent out his anger at Corlys, for all those years of neglect. But with how the writers have been handling Corlys’ characterization so far, the situation still leaves much to be desired.

I’ve been saying this for a while but Corlys was a fairly decent father to Laena & Laenor in the book but a deadbeat to Addam & Alyn (until the war at least and then he’s very ride or die for them). In HOTD, he’s kind of a deadbeat to all of them. Also, a deadbeat to his wife in the show whom he constantly abandoned but supposedly understands her value now that she’s dead.

I guess HOTD erased Marilda’s existence so they can push the idea that Addam & Alyn grew up in poverty. While they certainly weren’t living a lavish lifestyle in the book, their mother was a successful businesswoman (and before her, their other grandfather who owned the shipyards at hull) so they would’ve been provided for at the least:

When Addam was ten and Alyn nine, their mother inherited the yards upon her own father’s death, sold them, and used the coin to take to the sea herself as the mistress of a trading cog she named Mouse. A canny trader and daring captain, by 130 AC Marilda of Hull owned seven ships, and her bastard sons were always serving on one or the other.

I don’t know what it is with these writers making everybody more miserable than they ever were in Fire & Blood.

[sunnysideaeggs]

hi friends, welcome back to another episode of me complaining about the dragon show. this is a long post for a long episode, spoilers for s2e6 of hotd, and spoilers for fire and blood, since i will be discussing a bit of my theories about the ending. enjoy!

the lannisters as always serving. i love the armor, the red, the details, targaryens wish they had that drip.

lions? fighting? yes lord jason show us the budget

also i think it’s cute that lord lefford and his men have a little golden dandelion pin. i think the different ways westerosi people embrace their sigils is cute

why is the golden tooth’s lord so surprised to see lord jason being a show off? sir that’s your liege lord you must know how he is 😵‍💫

‘he dares summon me 🤬🤬🤬’ bitch you’re regent because you have fightfing ability. use it. i hate aemond ugh

‘i’m prince regent not a dog’ ✨ stop acting like a bitch then ✨

everyone in the council wishing aegon comes back home lol

larys’ hair looks unmatched today

alicent and dalton? 💀 this would be a great moment to remind the audience of how dalton is a rapist, a tyrant, a heathen and a criminal, and anyone that allies themselves with him is icky. but oh wait isn’t he a black ally?

i will not tolerate any more tyland slander. he’s my little finance bro and he must be respected

now this is a question. what position does alicent fill exactly? she’s not queen anymore and being queen mother of an adult king doesn’t grant her any more saying than anybody else

i would be more inclined to empathize with alicent’s loss of power if she had spent any morsel of her power actually saying or doing something. i don’t care about the loss of a ‘leveling voice’ in the council when she didn’t have any thoughts this season but ‘war bad, aegon bad, viserys good, peace good’

she’s in her FOMO era though. she wishes this was aegon instead. she should’ve employed this maternal energy in him. it would’ve served her better.

now this is another consequence of alicent’s character being so butchered it became a 50’s caricature of what a woman is. book alicent was such a powerhouse that no one would dare question her presence in the council. and she was evil af. that’s the alicent we deserved

i can’t stop thinking that the hand pin rhaenyra gave corlys is the same pin she stole from otto lmao

i fail to see how rhaenyra admitting she’s being held back by her council gives her power. they’re admitting she’s a puppet ruler. ew

rhae mentioning that the knight has noble blood first of all 😭 smallfolk don’t count. it’s unthinkable they would have the ability. she said no real person involved fr

‘the dragons are gods’ i thought we were well past that

if anything i watch every episode to see daemon being haunted for all his sins. truly what he deserves

(throwback to s1) also i find it interesting how in the show viserys cut himself with the throne when he sent away daemon, when the moment he cuts himself in the book is when he condemns vaemond and the silent five unfairly. the show trying to make his mistake be standing up to his entitled family instead of enabling his entitled family 💀

simon must be so done with daemon 😭

i wonder if caraxes has been having weird dreams too

daemon packing his shit and sleeping outside harrenhal in a tent jsjjsjsjs

alys like: ‘where my goodbye hug at? 🧐’

‘perhaps those who strive for (the crown) are the least suited to wear it’ preach.

but rhaenyra does strive for it, she can’t be five minutes reminding people of her crown duh. the only one who recognized the duty of the crown and the burden and duty it takes is egg and that is why i love him

i can’t with the fucking viserys glazing smh

alys my love why would you say ‘centuries’ when it comes to the tullys? they’ve been around for a century and a third, not more. i love the tullys but they haven’t been liege lords for centuries

once again condal proving he didn’t read the books

now if ser whatshisname dies trying to claim a dragon i will say he died a dragonrider’s death, therefore he was successful or whatever

poor steffon :( it’s cruel to give a knight a ceremony for his death and seasmoke was cruel to lure him just to burn him

why did they leave him there instead of idk throwing water? try to save him? smh

he died a dragonrider’s death tho

actually the dragonkeeper choosing to slice his throat instead of succumbing to his burns tells us throusands about what an actual honorable valyrian death is like. and it doesn’t have anything to do with burning

now i would like some more insight on the resentment it causes to know you have a noble father and he leaves you to your devices. imagine your dad being your boss but you can’t say anything :(

i still think it was so stupid of dyana to not run away from the city when she had the chance and the money. i know they kept it for slander purposes but still

since when do the peasants are choosers? they’re eating rats and bowls of brown, why are you complaining about fish?

aemond’s lover is a traaaaaiittoor lol

tell but not show. we haven’t seen any food or feast since the dinner back in s1. got did way better with the food

also giving the blacks’ storyline of feasting while the people starve to the greens has not gone unnoticed.

bitch what? rhaenyra is slapping lords? she’s fucking joffrey. this is beyond disgusting and disrespectful. fuck her i hate her so much and every episode gives me more reason to hate her even more

‘fear me 👹👹👹’ i will cheer when she dies chained

also she just hits her allies and speaks some bs, doesn’t explain herself, doesn’t create more plans, just fucks around and fucks off. ew

i know mysaria is a lickspittle because no one else would say rhaenyra ‘raised in feasts and lazyness’ targaryen becomes being with a sword lol

aemond speaks the truth but fails to endorse it. it is in the crown’s best interest to make sure the smallfolk curse the blacks all the more, instead of leaving them to think whatever. when there’s a siege you hate the one keeping the siege not the ones suffering with you

aemond is so easily blindsided (pun intended). he is so quick to shut down the flatterers in the council but doesn’t realize he’s fucking the worse traitor of them all lol

yay egg is awake! (of course orwyle will prioritize 👑 the king 👑 instead of dealing with a simple prince duh)

my baby is in pain :(

aemond targaryen i will see you in the seven hells if i don’t sent you there myself. keep your hands away from him you leech. i’m on daemon’s side for this one

why would the maesters leave him alone? he’s the king king, he can command them to not leave the room and aemond can’t overrule him

rhaena being sidelined and forced into a storyline that isn’t hers (diminishing her importance and the last dragonrider until daenerys) will not be forgotten.

we get to see daemnyra’s kids’ dragons but not helaegon’s kids’ dragons? a crime.

i would like to remind everybody that grrm himself said dragons are not nomads and they don’t go flying around just because. condal once again

rhae rhae showing she’s vizzy’s daughter because she threatens to cut tongues when she gets mad at the truth and can’t even give a reasonable explanation for why. at least joffrey cut tongues when people were singing slander and not just trying to be useful

fucking tyrant.

while rhaenyra cries about not being respected as a ruler jace actually makes plans to win the war. she’s not respected because she’s fucking useless not because she’s a woman.

ah yes, apples grown in the gardens of dragonstone. as if the reach isn’t team green. lmao

also it’s so funny that no one ever through about buying more food exported from the reach (coast clear and no need for sea routes). the writing is so stupid bruh

all he ever wanted was to hear someone was sorry about what happened to him :(i’m sorry egg, your mom is sorry)

now some sunnydumping: back in 2021 i got covid, i probably catched it from my mom. i was bedridden and with awful fever and pain, my mom did stay by my side and constantly apologized for me being sick. of course it wasn’t her fault but she still felt bad. alicent apologizing to her burned son speaks to me so much

alicent was around 14 when her mom died, gwayne is older than that and was in tourneys during the first ep. did the writers forgot? why would they say ‘oh you were 8 when mom died’ this man fought daemon 💀

THEY’RE AGING DAERON? i expected it but i’m still disappointed

the horses are so cute with their armor aw

rhaenyra didn’t fucking knew about mysaria’s plan 💀 the smallfolk are right to thank her though. she might be the cause there’s a blockade but it’s not logical the crown hasn’t done anything about it

‘we must leave now’ no tf they don’t. helaena and alicent should stay right there instead of going to the streets. most of the smallfolk is deeply religious and wouldn’t dare to desecrate a sept. what are they, blackwoods?

and the narrative backs me up. the people were outside the sept, but didn’t actually enter and instead just conveniently went after the queens when they exited the sept. they should’ve stayed.

the smallfolk throwing food at them 💀 well damn that’s why you’re starving if you’re throwing good food away

i’ll miss leon stermont ngl. he was funny.

eeeegggg :((( his little tear while reaching for the milk? i’m crying. also give tom his emmy rn

aegon wanted his medicine and sleep but larys instead gave him his lore. poor baby :(

matthew needham the actor you are

i love love love larys and aegon together. the two best actors of the show on scene, their microexpressions, their shared disability and the ruthlessness it brews. this is the most vulnerable larys we’ve ever had and i am so mesmerized by them

new theory: i am a ‘aegon poisoned himself’ truther, and now i am of the mind that larys may help him, and poison his king following his orders (jesus and judas who). after that, he chooses death because what else can he do. he fulfilled his purpose and he served his king.

btw larys’ purpose to me is the old gods grand conspiracy. he’s advancing stuff so that the events of asoiaf can happen. he’s but a piece in a board.

he also may poison aegon without aegon knowing but thinking he’s doing it out of kindness. he doesn’t want the boy he grew to be fond of to be stripped of his power, life and dignity. better to die a king.

i hope we can get past all that dan schneider shit from s1e9 and we get to the real deal of larys’ motivations now. power and chaos, chaos and power. chaos is a ladder after all :)✨

daemon seeing viserys mourning 😭 he’s just in a really bad mushroom trip

where is elmo tully? this is muppet erasure

seasmoooookke i’m mad at you

still go get your rider boy

???? no claiming scene ???? 🤨

also we probably could’ve a) seasmoke claiming scene and b) sunfyre recovering scene instead of steffon dying trying to claim seasmoke and caraxes screaming in the background with alys and daemon, better use of cgi

rhaenyra’s problem is that she can’t fathom that not kissing the floor she walks on and still being loyal to her can coexist. no girl jace is your biggest ally he doesn’t doubt you he just sees you need help. smh

another thing i dislike is how they paint rhaenyra to be this universally beloved queen and the poor underdog fighting against the world at the same time. pick a side hbo

here we have grrm’s bad maths: 2/3 of the houses sided with the blacks, the blacks have thrice the dragons the greens have. but still the greens won (by virtue of aegon outliving and killing rhaenyra). how was that? the greens are the underdogs and the blacks have the numbers advantage

jace literally wakes up and starts thinking about ways to help his mother. but he says ‘ayo maybe you should check on your husband and ask him for help’ and then his mother cries and makes a fit because apparently he’s doubting her. narcissistic mom where

because apparently women need to be raped to be sympathetic? can’t mysaria be a sex worker who just so happened to want power and catch daemon’s attention? why does she need to be abused by her father? and tell her backstory to a targaryen of all things. she won’t ever understand how horrible that is.

mysaria being a ripoff of varys’ backstory 🧐

bruuuh i actually don’t think rhaenyra and mysaria are a good thing. power dynamics, especially with mysaria being a former sex worker and a sa victim, a daemon victim and at some point rhaenyra’s prisoner. can’t mysaria be a good employee without having to please her boss sexually? can rhaenyra respect one of her employees without fucking them? it seems not.

this episode was long aaaaaaffff and i think the scene with rhaenyra and mysaria could’ve been cut completely. mysaria giving her lore just doesn’t hit as hard when larys gave his piece, the make out scene is just fanservice and the ‘oh no’ ending could’ve been just alyn claiming seasmoke and pulling a dany

7/10 solely because of my greenies and alys.

[agentrouka-blog]

I would (partially) forgive condal & co of their writing crimes against humanity (😂) if they insert whatever house whent theory is because it would be hilarious as fuck (highly doubt it though with how much TB a$$ kissing they are doing).

I may searched about this upon seeing your post and read some reddit posts and saw some TB are calling this TG's delulu fantasy but seriously? It would be TG's biggest mic drop that aha, the current Starks actually have Targ blood, but do they know? Nope. Would they care? They'd probably have one second of existential crisis and an "ew" then going back to being badass and proud Starks and conveniently forget this.

Although it would still be nice that they don't have a shed of Targ in them because their family fought the long night even without dragons so duh they are quite capable and magical in their own right.

But you know, it also reminds me of this quote

"The northern girl. Winterfell’s daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window."

And how Sansa is currently the heir presumptive of Harrenhal as she is sill posing as Baelish's daughter.

But I see this more as an Alys mond also being a foreshadowing to Jonsa than the Starks being A&A's descendants?

(Alayne would not be heir presumptive of Harrenhal because she is a bastard.)

(I also don't see the jonsa in this so much as Melisandre or even Lady Stoneheart.)

But ultimately, I love how it's kind of irrelevant. The magic in that line is already far more interesting on Alys's side than on Aemond's, so if Catelyn's line is obscurely descended through Alys and Aemond, I would consider Alys as a native Riverlander so much more important to it. If there is one thing HOTD did well it's to showcase the fact that the Riverlands are "ancient" and tied to the old gods and the new, same as in the main series. The Ghost of High Heart appears to be an albino Child of the Forest, wreaking havoc with her prophecies in a way that sent House Targaryen spinning off the utter rails (again), sending Rhaegar diving through old Valyrian scrolls and dooming his whole dynasty. This is thousands of years after the Andals destroyed the sacred weirwood groves, and the GOHH is still shuffling around to make prophecies to Arya and Beric like it's no big deal. There's a whole cursed castle built out of weirwood on the edge of a lake with an island no one dares visit where there may or may not be an ancient magical order of green men guarding magic trees. Is that less powerful than what's going on with the "dragonblood" or what's happening in the North, all things considered?

Alys strikes me as powerful in a similar way. If there's magic informing the path of House Stark, it's the magic of the old gods and the Riverlands, and if there's Targness diluted in there, it's no more significant than the remnants in House Baratheon or House Martell or House Velaryon or House friggin Longwaters, or potentially House Hightower, House Tarth, or any further unrecorded descendents.

The Targaryens are a bit of a blip in Westeros, historically speaking. Harren Hoare's cursed legacy architectural project is going to outlast the dragonriders who melted a few of its towers from the way it seems, so... ultimately, it doesn't matter. They came, they self-destructed, and Westeros is carrying on.

[snowblack-charcoalwhite]

The way Condal, Hess and co write certain characters, especially Alicent, just makes them look like some kind of aliens who cannot comprehend the core of human nature and familial bonds (motherly love, sibling dynamic...) . I mean, fine, maybe they aren't parents honestly have no idea about their private lives nor do I want to know ), but that still doesn't justify the atrocious manner in which they have been portraying Alicent's relationship with her children. And I dislike the explanations that come from one part of the fandom (she married against her will, never wanted those children, never felt freedom...) I mean, I don't deny these, but they are not enough to explain or justify her weird (and sudden imo) detachment and dare i say, borderline hatred of her sons. Not to mention that this was the life of westerosi women, basically every one of them. Also, Ryan talked how Alicent and Viserys had "a loving marriage, just weren't in love " and generally holds Viserys in high regard, so he obviously doesn't see him as Alicent's abuser or anything. That's why i cannot understand what is the point of showing her so disgusted by her children and incapable of showing them love. Otto's influence? Maybe, but still not the greatest explanation. And she seems even harsher and distant to her sons this season than Otto ever was to her. She doesn't seem broken over Jaehaerys, she doesn't seem overly upset over Aegon (he's burned alive and is dying ffs and she won't shed a tear), Aemond is apparently an ireedemeable monster in her eyes fur some reason, even before RR... It's so frustrating that there are people who eat it all up and justify it as a genius and subtle storytelling with a lot of details that we "the whiners" refuse or are unable to grasp. Idk, I really liked her in s1 and although she was a bit inconsistent in ep 8 and 9 I hoped it would be retconed. Unfortunately, this season I'm watching a character I don't recognise anymore. And the worst thing is that she doesn't suffer from a lack of screentime like Aemond or Helaena do. Almost everything on tg revolves around her and yet I still have no idea what is her goal or who she is anymore.

Sorry for the rant.

Hello!

I could not agree with you more. Not sure if some kind of personal/family circumstances of HotD writers played a role in them fumbling the Greens family dynamic so badly but I am convinced that their "women good men bad" narrative policy did.

In "Driftmark" Alicent orders for Luke's eye to be cut out (and immediately, in public) - and then attacks Luke and Rhaenyra herself. But a few minutes (in show time) later she repents - and after that, apparently, she is all for "violence is reserved for men" agenda. That's where her disdain for Aemond (in whose name she was about to commit a public act of violence herself) is supposed to come from, I think. It doesn't even feel like she is horrified precisely by the fact that he might have almost killed (deliberately at that) his own brother. Lack of consistency and logic? Yes. Obliviousness at best, hypocrisy at worst (from Alicent, I mean)? Yes. But who cares, right? Alicent does not support the evil deeds of men - and that's what matters.

And her treatment of Aegon looks even more moronic. Girl, you put him on the throne against his will! After her meeting with Rhaenyra she knows it was a result of a misunderstanding (the favourite trick of this show, dammit - but it is a topic for a whole another conversation) but how is Aegon to blame for it?

I can relate to Alicent growing tired of being used and manipulated - but IMO (I agree with you here as well) this is not a good enough excuse for her to fully go into the "fuck yourselves, the lot of you" mode. But for the writers it is, at least it looks like it. They were trying to sell us the bullying of Aemond by Aegon (combined with the former's desire for power) being a sufficient motivation for Aemond to get rid of his brother (during the civil war where they are supposed to be on the same side no less) - and now they are trying to justify whatever Alicent does with her being a child bride and so on and so forth. I have no love for Viserys (or sympathy for Otto - where it comes to him pimping his teenage daughter out to the king) - but turning Alicent into this and expecting everyone to eat it up? Come on. Even some casual viewers are going "WTF" watching Alicent's scenes with her children, never mind those who are familiar with Fire and Blood.

And double yes to the point about the show very heavily focusing on Alicent to the detriment of many other characters (Aemond first of all). It feels like the writers believe that all that audience is supposed to know about Aemond now is that he is a bad guy - and they give him just enough screen time to show that. Meanwhile Alicent has loads of it - just so we could get a really good, really long look at her face and understand just how bad patriarchy failed her.

So, as I see it Alicent is now no more than a means to the end of hammering home the main idea of the show. How does she do that and what happens to her character in the process is unimportant - at least, to the writers and showrunners.

Sorry for the rant as well🙈

[survivinglifesstruggles]

After watching those leaks, I’m missing D&D.

LOOK AT WHAT YOUVE DONE CONDAL ARE YOU HAPPY?!?

[tessarionbestgirl]

The funny thing is he isn’t even making “brilliant, avant-garde choices”, Ryan Condall is a coward who’s absolutely terrified of leaving his comfort zone where women are meek little creatures who can’t say boo to a goose without it triggering a breakdown.

Do you know what would be avant-garde? Writing a morally ambiguous main character who will have you executed and then feed your corpse to her dragon for daring to tell the truth about her son’s paternity. Want an example of brilliant writing? Have a woman be the ring leader in a coup to seize power from her husband’s chosen heir, have the men look to her for direction and authority despite them living in a patriarchal system.

There’s nothing mind blowing about weak willed women who stand around crying whilst the men take charge, it’s just the 1950s brand of sexism repackaged as feminist writing because now the women choose to be useless.

Exactly. All that.

Is so funny to me when people, when trying to defend Ryan ideas, tell me how much more feminist and social relevant is his portrayal of Rhaenyra and Alicent is compared to Martin, even though most of his interpretation of female character is already outdate. Meanwhile Martin was raised in the middle of American cultural revolution. And most of his female character though the 80/90s are deconstruction of the archetypes of female character of the time. And still work by this day, and other writers who try to do what he does fall in the same problems as Ryan or qD&D fell on writing women beyond the "victim" position.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

According to Ryan Aegon's bond with sunfyre is just historical Westros propaganda lmao

Hi anon, I saw that too and look, you probably know by now that I can be pretty critical of this show, but I also think this fandom has a tendency to be very uncharitable with the writers and actors when they give these sorts of interviews and statements. It's easy to nitpick, but these interviews are usually small parts of a bigger whole, and the printed or clipped statements are often out of context or poorly phrased because not everyone is great at extemporaneous speaking. And then, of course, these things get repeated and paraphrased and used in bad faith as ammo for stan wars, and as much as I might criticize the show, I don't think that's particularly fair to the writers either. So let's look at what he actually said, which isn't that Aegon's bond with Sunfyre was just Westerosi historical propaganda, but rather, "If you believe Westerosi historical propaganda, Aegon II and Sunfyre famously had the closest bond between dragon and human in history. It’s important for Tom Glynn-Carney as an actor to know what Sunfyre looks like.” He doesn't deny it, he is saying that this story about Aegon and Sunfyre comes from Fire and Blood, which he calls a piece of Westerosi historical propaganda. Whether or not "propaganda" is the right word for Fire and Blood is debatable, but it does have a certain in-world agenda (no, not pro green or pro black. Think about the time period in which Gyldayn was writing F&B and consider who was in power at the time and how they got there, and that's your simple answer).

And you know, I think Ryan Condal threw that bit about "Westerosi historical propaganda" out there because he knew that the moment he mentioned Aegon II many fans were going to start screeching about some other favorite dragonrider, and that's exactly what happened even with the "historical propaganda" line. People were calling Ryan a joke, going "um, Dany literally breastfed her dragons, how dare he??" Meanwhile people who are fans of Aegon and the greens were taking issue with the "historical propaganda" line. So really it's a no-win for Condal.

That said, the takeaway of this quote is that Condal says because they have this legendary bond, it's important for Aegon to know what Sunfyre looks like, and presumably that means he wants to bring their bond to life. And why wouldn't he want that? A wounded dragon crossing over a great distance to reunite with his wounded rider is a great story, will make for great television. It will probably be a big part of Aegon's S3 plotline. So I don't really think that Condal meant to diminish Sunfyre and Aegon's bond, but more to provide a caveat given this fandom's tendency to jump on even the most innocuous statements from the writers and actors.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

you guys are so pathetic talking about Olivia “she’s painting Alicent as a conflicted character instead the bad stepmother, she’s projecting!” fucking losers and pathetic, hotd fans stop being the most insane fandom challenge 🤡 team black stans only talk about alicent this, alicent that, invent lies in twitter just to talk shit about Olivia, give it a break, she’s not responsible of the writing of the show and you guys make it seems like she personally wrote alicent like that, most of you forgot how the asoiaf behaved towards Sophie (mind you when she was just a kid) and Lena for playing Cersei. Actors are entitled to defend themselves when crazy stans attack them and look for personal excuses to “hate” and dislike them that goes beyond of “I don’t like your character” just awful but what can we expect with targ stans tbh you all got so fucking cry babies after the end of GoT

I don't think you realize that you're actually agreeing with one of my points about Olivia Cooke. I've literally already talked about how toxic fandoms go after the actors and actresses of disliked characters wrongfully twice. It's a symptom of how people struggle with separating reality from media.

Accusing me of ignoring that when I literally talked about it in my original post is ridiculous. It shows how you're not actually fucking reading what I'm saying, like all Alicent/TG stans who interact with me. What I said in my post is how I disagree with Olivia's interpretation of her character and how it seems like her fear of the earlier issue is impacting how she wants to portray Alicent.

I know she didn't write Alicent and that she didn't have any influence on that. Do you know why I know she has no control over that? Because she outright contradicts the writing choices Condal and Hess made and talk about. The most obvious one is how she said she "refused to play Alicent as a woman for Trump" when that's how she was written and Condal literally said that's how she is. I'm criticizing how she clearly doesn't like how her character is written but still tries to constantly defend her by refusing to acknowledge the parts she doesn't like.

You literally just word vomited into my inbox, you don't make an actual argument. You don't want me to criticize your fav or the actress who plays her, but you're not trying to defend the points I make. It's ridiculous and pathetic.

Also I've literally never seen people complaining about Alicent being "conflicted". Our issue is actually how Alicent was written by Condal and Hess to be inconsistent, hypocritical, and a constant victim despite being one of the most powerful people in the show. If you look on my page, literally all of my complaints about the writing are focused on the actual writers. You're arguing with your imagination, which probably explains why you're not making any actual points other than "how dare you criticize her 😡".

You know, you're coming across as the "crybaby" in this scenario, since you're just crying in my inbox and ignoring what I'm saying. You complaining about Dany and Targaryen stans being upset with GOT is very ironic, since Alicent stans are the one of the most sensitive group in this fandom (case in point).

Olivia Cooke is a person, she's fallible and it's totally fair and allowable to criticize her. You're right, she shouldn't be hated and harassed, but that doesn't mean she's perfect and above messing up. You just hate anything connected to Alicent being criticized and it very much shows. Stop projecting your obsession onto TB stans, it's annoying and just plain wrong, you'd know this if you actually looked at what people actually say instead of living in your delusional world.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

I don't understand how anyone can like the Greens in the series. I like them in the books because they are good villains, specifically Alicent. I would have given anything to see her come to life on screen rather than the pathetic thing we were treated to. That doesn't help with the fact that apparently Ryan Condal has finally confirmed he's team Greens... I'll never understand this guy. How could he read the book and say that no, the Greens were justified in any way ?! Also, the guts you have to have, even within this fandom, to openly say you support the group of misogynistic and blood purist usurpers... In the sense of saying that they are completely right or that Blacks are just as horrible! But in what universe ?! Ryan Condal would also have said that we would probably change preferred camps in season 2... Man, you can still dream, even with your stupid supporting documents for TG everyone still prefers the Blacks team. It's distressing that the director of the series himself doesn't understand anything he's adapting and that so many people are going in this direction. The number of idiots who tried to explain to me that both teams were equally horrible, that the Greens can't be pure villains because GRRM only writes complex characters, it's obvious. Like GRRM has never written a pure villain ? Are you sure you've read the books he wrote ? No but I swear that since the release of the series, asoiaf fans are worse than before in their unjustified hatred of the Targaryens... These people think they are moral by wanting to put the two teams on the same level or by saying that the Blacks are worse. That revolts me.

Essentially what neutrals think ;

“Yes, it’s not good what the Greens did, but the Blacks are no better seen as they dared to fight back for their rights.”

Like... What dimension did I land in ?!

Just last time, I received comments from someone supposedly accepting that the Greens were worse, but trying to explain to me that Daemon groomed Rhaenyra (which is false book or series), that the murder of 'a Greens child is unjustified (while the Greens shed blood first and we are in a feudal context) that Lucerys taking Aemond's eye is unjustified (Wtf ?!) ah and the best thing was to me say at face value that Daemon was not a gray character and that he was like Aegon IV... (Again... WTF ?!)

https://www.tumblr.com/darklinaforever/701570671006875648/i-hate-when-people-say-greens-and-blacks-are-on

(Afterwards I wasn't gentle in my answers either, but I'm fed up with this type of people)

I personally never liked the greens in the book. To me, they were always the villains. Always. I never viewed Daemon and Rhaenyra as pure innocent angels, don’t get me wrong. I recognize the few mistakes Rhaenyra makes in the book, as well as Daemon’s many, many faults.

For instance, yes, Rhaenyra should not have had Vaemond murdered (even though what he spoke was treasonous and threatened her position as well as the lives of her children). She should not have gone so far with the taxes during her reign (even though she was left with no choice).

However, in this story, despite all their faults, I always felt Rhaenyra and Daemon were perfectly justified. Because their good qualities kind of eclipse the bad stuff. The Blacks are the anti-heroes of the story. They have done some questionable things, but all of them have been justified/done with good reason and good purpose.

The Greens are a whole different story. Everything they have done (mainly Alicent and Otto), they have done out of jealousy and pure greed (hence why they were given the color “green” - the color of greed and envy). 95 % of the war crimes are done by the Greens. Literally the only thing the Blacks are to be held accountable for is B&C. Other than that, every crime was courtesy of the Greens.

To me, the Greens have always been split between those who are anti-villains (Aegon, Helaena, Daeron), and those who are pure villains (Alicent, Otto, Aemond).

For the anti-villains: The one time Aegon presents some goodness is when he has reservations about usurping his half-sister. Other than that, he is pure evil; Helaena can’t be considered a pure innocent soul either. She has good qualities, but she is extremely underdeveloped as a character in the book and we don’t know her thoughts, her motives. She didn’t protest the usurpation and accepted the position of queen consort easily; Daeron is somehow given a free pass by certain people because he is “the daring”, and while that’s true, these people forget how he burned a whole village of innocent people alive.

For the pure villains, not much need be said. Alicent and Otto are a bunch of opportunistic hypocrites and vicious upstarts. I haven’t sensed any bit of goodness in them. Aemond is a psycho with zero redeeming qualities.

Now, in the show, I don’t feel as if the Greens are portrayed better than they have been in the book. I feel like the show writers (mainly Ryan Condal) are trying to come up with lame excuses for them, and it’s just not working. The great majority of the viewers still hate Alicent as much as they did in the book, regardless how many times she presents those “doe eyes”, and the great majority still believe the Greens are in the wrong.

In the show, when it comes to the Greens, there’s always some sort of “reason”, some sort of “accident”. Alicent didn’t mean to shoot her mouth off and convince Larys to murder the current hand, Lyonel Strong, so that her father could return as Hand (even though that is exactly what she wanted). Aemond didn’t mean to let Vhagar know that he wants Lucerys dead (even though his pursuing and direct attack showed his intentions to murder the boy). Crispin somehow didn’t mean to crush Beesbury’s skull in that ball, even though he acted aggressively towards the man for simply speaking the truth and nothing but the truth at that treasonous Council meeting.

These excuses the show writers make for the greens make no sense whatsoever. They should have stuck with the actual canon portrayal, because it’s just ridiculous at this point.

So what if the two sides are not evenly matched?

They’re not supposed to!

GRRM doesn’t write purely good vs bad in his universe, that is true. He loves the complexity of the characters and the stories. However, that does not mean that he intended for the Blacks and the Greens to be evenly matched in this story.

He himself admitted that he wrote the book more in the Blacks’ favor because that’s how he felt (ironic, considering that Fire and Blood is told from the point of view of green supporters). It’s his story. I have seen people accuse him of being biased, always in favor of the Blacks.

Yes, he clearly wrote the Blacks as the protagonists, with better developed characters, with the best allies, the most heroic/epic deaths, most dragons, most Houses supporting them.

I mean, the Starks are TB, while the Lannisters are TG. That alone should give you a clue as to which side you’re supposed to be rooting for.

Clearly GRRM is Team Black, but who says he can’t be? Who says that the sides have to be evenly matched? It’s his story! If he says the Blacks are right, the Blacks are right.

TG stans are just in denial at this point.

[lemonhemlock]

Maybe this is still a controversial take (honestly, i don't know why) but Condal and Co are far worse than D&D and deserve a huge backlash. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence. D&D were actually good at adapting and while the later seasons weren't that great in many aspects, they are still superior to s2 of HotD by far. Maybe even to s1. However, five years later a big chunk of the fandom is obsessively hating on D&D, while praising Condal & co. Journalists, youtubers... I'm sorry, but the character assassination of Alicent and even Aemond are far worse than what happened to, let's say, Daenerys (i never saw it as a character assassination anyway, just a result of the shortened seasons and bad pacing). Also, the dialogues in hotd s2 are clunky and forced, the characters inconsistent, the plotholes jarring, even the technical aspects are not that great ... The list is endless, really. And Condal & co are deeply biased, unprofessional and dare I say, not so talented at all. Therefore, I just don't understand how the same people who were sh*tting on GoT and d&d are happy with the pile of c*ap that HotD s2 turned out to be.

no..........i think you're right. d&d made many mistakes and even the good seasons of asoiaf weren't "perfect" but they were excellent television because they were aces at captatio benevolentiae. they knew how to arrest your attention and once they had it, you couldn't look away. think of how so many people were hooked after just watching the pilot of GoT. ending the pilot with the shocking revelation of twincest and the cliffhanger of bran's fall was a stroke of genius.

not just bc it was "shocking" and "titillating", but they had good instincts for how to structure a season and how to sprinkle the action throughout to make it engaging. the pacing of the early seasons was on point! think of how tyrion gets arrested at the end of ep 4, robert dying, ned's execution, dany hatching her eggs to end S1.

and, for the love of god, the plot had STAKES. GoT lived by the idiom "fuck around and find out". mistakes were punished. what characters did mattered. when people died, it had an impact.

ofc that later on they introduced too many looney tunes plots and it was obvious they didn't know what to do once they ran out of written material. they didn't know what to do with main POV characters: arya, jon, bran. honestly, it's their love of cersei that was their prevailing grace during the last seasons, because they gave her the best possible ending and, as a cersei stan, i couldn't be, you know, MAD mad.

which makes me think that perhaps they would have adapted the dance of the dragons in a more satisfying manner. as both rhaenyra and alicent are a little cersei-coded in their own way, i imagine D&D could have softened them without completely declawing them or making them straight-up boring, as that was one of the few female archetypes for which they could produce some decent writing

(ironic bc when they tried to cersify other female characters with differing personalities like sansa or arya, they became straight-up cold and robotic)

[thephantomcasebook]

How do you think Daeron will be introduced to us? Do you still think he will have red hair?

For the record - for 400th time - I'm not the one that said Daeron would have Alicent's features. That was what was reported to be in the "House of the Dragon" show bible about Daeron going into Season 2. At the time, it was kicked around that he would have Alicent's features, he would be a veteran of the Stepstone Wars, and that he was exiled from King's Landing by Viserys just prior to 1x06 and that Alicent and Criston's extreme antagonism toward Rhaenyra and Harwin, at that time, was based on whatever incident got Daeron exiled, of which both had a hand in contriving prior to Joffery's birth.

I think most of this stuff is still viable since Season 2 is actually a scrapped together quilt of a bunch of unfinished and first drafts of scripts that had no refinement. So, basically, they were forced by GRRM's executive decree to include Daeron in the show, so the ghost showrunner - Peter Morgan - had to add basic lore of Daeron into shooting scripts that were not written or looked over by Condal.

From what I heard, the idea was that Tessarion was not supposed to be a small, hatchling dragon, taking her first flight. That the concept was that she was fully grown and battle tested on the Stepstones and Disputed Lands. That Daeron was a war hero and "THE" Green Champion that would be feared by the Blacks.

The problem is that Condal never got to fully realize this Daeron before the Budget Cuts and Writer's Strike. They got as far as laying down the ground work in 2x02 and 2x03 of Daeron being an absolute weapon that the Green Council was Hyping up. However after 2x04, the scripts become more concepts than actual finished products and Peter Morgan had to patch together rejected and unfinished scripts to shoot. Thus, he had to make up Daeron lore without Condal. So, he basically just Wikied Daeron and put down what he read, plus some added stuff of his own.

So, Season 2 has two Daeron "The Daring" Targaryens. There is the one from 2x02-2x04 that Condal came up with which is a dangerous elite fighter and adventurer. And then there's 2x05-2x08 which is basically the "Wiki of Ice and Fire" that was mandated by GRRM and written into existence by someone who didn't know anything about Condal's plans for the character.