#I have a thing for big evil Saiyans it seems

[amebanworld]

So... what happened with Raditz? I mean...

Cetain thing I find infurating about the (random) DragonBall canon is how imprecisse and "let's forget our own canon" it can be. Sure, Mr. Toriyama never took a big deal about this b/c he just wanted to make something entertaining. But, at the end of the day, it also happens to be contradictory or just unfair. That's the case of Raditz. Let me explain myself... After so many years, Mr. Toriyama finally could acomplish his idea about how saiyans were and what happened with Bardock, Broly, King Vegeta, Freeza, etc... Till then, we only had Toei's movies and OVA's, not Toriayama's. Therefore, we learned about Goku's mother, Gine, as well the dinamic of his parents. Unlike Toei's movies, here we could meet Raditz as a kid. And happens to be the character is something less "saiyan like" we had in mind. Let's check these canon scenes...

We can see Raditz playing with beetles along other younger saiyan children. Sure, this is a Japanese thing and they can be related with it, but in DBall canon, we can see saiyan kids aren't different from human children. And overall, Raditz is NOT evil here, he's just behaving like any other playfull kid.

Now, we also can see Gine holding Raditz's hand, like any other mother would do with really young children. Yes, we know Gine was sweet (at least, for saiyans standars), but we don't see Raditz is infurated or anything because his family.

Also, we have this "Kid manga" about their saiyan tail's training. It's suppused to fit the real manga, but obviously it isn't really canon (an alternative universe, perhaps?) But putting aside the fact is nonsensical Raditz cannot recognize Kakarot, in this manga we see Vegeta uses to menace Raditz for any faliure, and he's afraid of him (as any saiyan would do with the Prince). But, on the other side, we see Goku-Kakarot and Raditz getting along nicely and being supportive with each other. In the end of the story, they wish for a future meeting. On the other hand, we also have the inverse situation, also in canon...

Raditz and Vegetas reaction after learning about the fate of their planet and people. They both acting like little shits. Vegeta says "Duh! I don't care!" and Raditz copying his answer. Sure, we can say Raditz did so because he's coping the prince b/c, well, Vegeta's the prince and Raditz is now going to go in the opposite direction. Anyway, his behaviour here is totally different from the image of him playing with beetles and other kids. And they both are canon!! Anyway, these facts bring up a lot of questions the fandom seem doesn't care about. I mean... At this point, we asume saiyans aren't cold hearted butchers, but people like humans are, but in a different stage of civilitation. Something similar to Mongol horders under Gengis Khan emperor. For them, fighting to survival is something and not showing weakness is something cultural. We knew, in the end, Vegeta did care for his people and wanted revenge, so this answer as kid was just wordiness. But, why we never got good answers? And why the fandom keeps saying Raditz, Nappa (and any other classical saiyans) are a bunch of plain assholes? Afterwards, Brooly happens to be a kind of shy boy and Vegeta's little bro (yeah, another canon break), is a sweetheart. I'd like to see more about the saiyans and how Raditz, being the main character's bro, could get a full arc about his story. It is unfair for this character, as well as the fandom ignoring him (except for another shipping story/ new saiyan from nowhere/ expendable villan).

I don't think Goku, at this point fo "Super" even cares. Son Goku turned into a plain egoistical idiot in later stories after all.

Oh! BTW, the beetle thing seems to be something that runs in the family. Goten also likes to play with insects. Uncle Raditz would aprove this.

[duhragonball]

Dragon Ball AF Lore

Last night I reblogged a thing about Xicor, the imaginary villain of Dragon Ball AF, the imaginary sequel to Dragon Ball GT. There were some cool responses to this, but I didn't want to reblog the entire post all over again, so I thought I'd carry the discussion over here.

@brotoman-exe : #so do they ever explain why Goku cheats on his wife in this set up?#(to be clear Im guessing it was likely a stolen dna Superman 4 thing just having fun)

My understanding was that the West Supreme Kai faked her death and then came back as a bad guy. She somehow obtained a DNA sample from Goku and used it to impregnate herself? The end result being that Xicor is the biological son of Goku and the West Supreme Kai, even though Goku himself had no idea of any of this.

Of course, it's impossible to cite sources on any of this, since I'm talking about made-up details from a made-up show. It's entirely possible that there are other versions of the AF legend where Goku cheated on his wife like a jerk.

What I always wanted to know was how the West Supreme Kai survived the fight with Kid Buu five million years ago, and why she laid low for so long.

But now that you've brought up Superman IV, I can't stop thinking about the raw chicken thigh Lex stuffed in that little lockbox. This is my new DBAF personal canon.

@scarabats123: #As someone who wasn't alive in 1994#let me tell you Xicor and AF was THRIVING in the 2000s up into the early 2010s#hell even now some people make nostalgic fanart of it#Everyone knew about Xicor and Evil Goku and that blue bald dude

It really is bizarre how long the AF mythos has persisted. I think Dragon Ball Super was the final nail in the coffin for any true believers that were still left, but by the time DBS came out AF had already established itself as this weird little thing in its own right. It's like Bigfoot. I think everyone knows it's not real and doesn't make a lot of sense, but the idea is too much fun to discard completely.

@mozillavulpix: definitely think there's a lot of information here that's wrong, but I wasn't in the fandom in the 1990s to confirm any of it But the one big thing is...I'm pretty sure 'Dragon Ball AF' was originally supposed to stand for 'April Fools'. Like at one point someone somewhere started the name just because it'd be hilarious to trick people into believing something with a name so obviously-fake if you were paying attention. But when people started believing it they came up with their own theories on what it meant. kanzenshuu also says the rumours probably only started around 2002-2003 https://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/dragon-ball-af/

There were some factual errors, but the one that stood out to me was the notion of Toyotaro creating Towa and Mira, since I'd always heard Toriyama created her for Dragon Ball Online. And I've heard of the Goku Black/Xicor parallels before, but I'm pretty sure that's more of a coincidence than anything else.

I also found the 1990s to be a little too early for AF rumors to really get started, so I went back to that Kanzenshuu article you linked to and read it again just to check. This time, I ran across the link to the message board discussion about the "SSJ5 Goku" image that seems to have started it all.

Apparently, this was all discovered back in 2012, but I don't think I ever heard about this until now. Someone found the "AF Goku" image in an issue of the magazine Hobby Consolas, cover dated May 1999.

It looks like the magazine just published reader-submitted fan art, and this particular one was credited to David Montiel Franco of Alicante, Spain. Forums member Raykugan published this information in February 2012, and then Derek Padula contacted the artist and published his findings on his blog "Dao of Dragon Ball".

David Montiel Franco, as it turns out, has his own blog, af-dragonball.blogspot.com, where he appears to be promoting his Dragon Ball AF fancomics. And apparently, the guy in the image is not Super Saiyan 5 Goku at all, but an OC named Tablos.

So it appears that the true original DBAF was a fanwork created by Franco prior to May 1999. Everyone else was building onto his creation whether they knew it or not. The alternative is that Franco is stealing the credit from the true artist, but that seems like a weird thing to still be holding onto after all these years. I mean, if he wanted clout, you'd think he'd do more self-promotion than this. By now, everyone would have heard of his claims to be the creator of AF. So I think he might be the real deal.

Anyway, it definitely ties DBAF to the year 1999, although I have a feeling the rumors didn't really pick up steam until 2002 or so, as U.S. fans became aware of a sequel series to Z and wondered what might follow after that. There may have been rumors in other countries that got earlier access to GT, and there were surely American fans in the 90's who knew more about GT before it was localized. But at least the concept of AF was around in the 90's, even if it was the tail end of the 90's, and even if it was very obscure.

But that's AF in general, not Xicor. I get the sense that Vintagegeekculture seemed to conflate Tablos with Xicor, and that's probably an understandable mistake to make, since Xicor was probably invented as a response to what was thought to be SSJ5 Goku. So Xicor must have come later, but how much later?

I guess what bugs me is that there ought to be someone who would claim credit for the character, the way Franco claimed to be the artist of the DBAF image. It's kind of fascinating how Xicor is out there and no one's trying to act like it was their idea.

[thestargayzingheroine]

My Adventures With Superman - A Rambling Set Of Thoughts

Okay, I know I don't USUALLY make posts like this and I especially hate getting cynical and nitpicky about these sorts of things because I just don't wanna contribute to all the negativity on the internet... But this is something I just couldn't shake.

So last night I watched the first season of My Adventures With Superman and... I have a lot of mixed feelings about to be brutally honest which is a shame because I know SO many people really loved this show.

Spoilers for season 1 obviously

For the most this show is great and it has a good foundation for Superman and gets him and his relationship with Lois so right. I love how Clark is this big, soft himbo twink dork who really reminds me of Adora from She-Ra and Lois is this fun tomboy who falls head over heels for him. And to be honest, all of their moments were genuinely the highlight of the show for me. SERIOUSLY ITS LIKE CLARK AND LOIS BUT MADE FOR SAPPHICS LIKE ME AND I ADORE THEM

I love the art style and animation too and really does put a very fresh new aesthetic on DC stuff. Sure, it's a bit too much like She-Ra and Voltron in places, but for DC, it's a really good breath of fresh air. Seriously, look at the designs of Deathstroke and Livewire!

But sadly, that's not all the show is and this is where I have to sadly talk about my negatives with it.

Sooooo�� this show was written a lot of the same people who wrote She-Ra and it seems to be a big fan of various anime things too, especially Dragon Ball Z and Neon Genesis Evangelion.

To that end, the show has basically... turned Superman into a mixture of Adora and Goku, not just in terms of personality traits and in Adora's case, her relationship with Catra (Seriously, if Clark was a woman and blonde, I would swear she and Lois would just be Catradora)

This sadly does apply to how this show portrays the Kryptonians, who are implied to MOSTLY be a race of evil conquerors who tried to attack Earth only for Krypton to be destroyed. This is VERY similar to how the First One's were depicted in She-Ra, as well as how the Saiyans were in Dragon Ball Z. One could also argue that their attack on Earth is a weird mashup of the movie Arrival and the Second Impact from Evangelion but that's me getting very nitpicky.

So naturally, we have Adora and Goku's traits being applied to Superman. And…. those traits don't really work for Superman, at all. Now I should be clear, it seems to be that Jor-El and Lara were actually like rebels fighting the evil Kryptonians (which is ironically Mara's whole deal... you seeing the She-Ra pattern here yet?) but like... I don't like this idea at all. Poor Clark even has a fucking breakdown later on and thinks he's actually some evil weapon meant to conquer Earth AGAIN just like Adora from She-Ra being used as a weapon by the First One's. And I just feel bad for him because he's trying to be the good decent Superman we all love... but he's getting dragged into this plot that pretty much breaks him... and I don't really like it.

And then there's a whole subplot about Lois meeting alternate versions of herself and discovering alternate versions of Superman who are evil (which is bizarrely how Kryptonite is introduced in this show) which.... yeah I don't like that plot either. Nor am I the fan of Task Force X pulling the whole "the Government is treating clark as hostile because they think he's an evil alien" plot which I have gotten kinda tired of seeing in a lot of modern Superhero media. It's either Superheroes being hated or hunted by the government or being made to work for them.

And you know where this all probably came from for this show in particular? Fucking Zack Synder and Man of Steel. It's kind of ironic because a lot of this show feels like its in response to the Synderverse, like it feels obligated to comment on how people see Superman now because of those crappy movies, something that I know James Gunn is probably gonna do as well with his superman movie basically a live action version of Superman vs the Elite.

And just…. no, none of this shit is really necessary nor is it a good idea. Because it kinda takes away some bits of Superman that I like. I know the show isn't done yet but… I can already make a good guess of where it's going to go. And where it's going… idk if I'm gonna like a whole lot.

It is clearly a show wanting to be different from all that has been done before with Superman…. but by being different for the sake of it, it's doing a lot of stuff I just don't like.

I just want there to be a day when we get a Superman thing that doesn't have to justify the man's own existence and role in a story because some objectivist edgelord made a bad movie with him in it eleven years ago.

So yeah, by turning Superman into more or less mostly Adora from She-Ra... I think they might have messed him a bit in my eyes. I hope season 2, whenever that comes out hopefully pushes things in a more hopeful direction and I could genuinely call this a good adaption of Superman. Because there is so much potential with just from the relationship of Clark and Lois alone that tells me that these creators just GET how Superman's character is.

So yeah, I hope that long rambling thought made sense.

[ultraericthered]

BEST DRAGON BALL BIG BADS

1. Cell and Freeza - Eternally the greatest villains that the Dragon Ball franchise has ever had and will ever have. They both just work so well, as characters and as villains, but on different levels. Both are completely and utterly evil to their cores, both are uber powerful, both are superbly designed, both have iconic voices, both serves as ultimate enemies to a generation of Saiyan (Freeza to Goku and Vegeta, and Cell to their sons Gohan and Trunks), both have fun and hilarious TFS Abridged Series incarnations that do them justice, and both have the demeanor of charismatic, sophisticated gentleman whose faux affability is used to punctuate their horrible evilness and conceal even uglier evilness within, giving the reader/viewer a strong desire to see them get dealt a comeuppance, but it’s expressed somewhat differently - with Freeza, his superficial politeness is blatantly false, you can read in his tone that it’s a front he puts on to patronize everyone of lesser power than he, even his own minions, and his inner spoiled brat and brutish sadism seeps through with every line…but those lines are normally courteous and gentlemanly. With Cell, his affability seems much more sincere and there’s much less obvious fakeness and condescension to it, but the things he actually says even with that attitude are so cruel, demeaning and dickish (he’s not known as a Savage Roast King for nothing!) and he just excudes confidence in what he is and all that he is capable of achieving. Their places in the story and what they represent is also great. Freeza was literally the instigator of the entire series, the reason Goku was raised on Earth to start with - he is the dark past that must be conquered in the present day where his reign of terror still spreads. Whereas Cell is literally made up of the cells of the greatest fighters seen across the series, including the previous villains, Freeza among them, who traveled back in time from a future timeline - he is the series’ past amalgamated into a grand present day crescendo and is reflective of a dark future that must not come to pass. While Cell's my preference between the two of them in terms of villainy (character-wise, he’s not quite as developed as Freeza has been), Freeza’s easily my second favorite, and both of them are equally the best Big Bads with the best sagas in all of Dragon Ball.

2. Zamasu/Goku Black and Demon God Demigra - Or as I like to call them, the Lucifer-Satan Duo. As I’ve said before, they’re sort of like the Freeza and Cell of the franchise’s new age - not quite as good but still easily the best major villains we've seen since them. Demigra came first and while he’s not much to write home about in terms of characterization, he’s got an awesome design, an incredibly strong malevolent presence, a flamboyant personality and a particularly sick, cruel, creepy style of villainy that makes him unforgettable. He’s a former Shinjin who fell from grace and became a demon who then rose to such a high state of power that he’s deemed a Demon God, and as such he now possesses a proud, smarmy, mightier-than-thou attitude and believes the entire multiverse should revolve entirely around him and his whims, and that all of existence is his to play with in any way he pleases. At first his villainy seems rather typical of a Big Bad Satan figure, but by the time he puts Piccolo under demonic mind control to get him to kill the kids he’s looked after, it gets more personal and you really want to take the smug bastard down. My two quibbles with him would be his original final form was terrible, being just a recolored, redesigned version of Babidi’s henchman Yakon (thankfully, this got amended later on in Dragon Ball Heroes), and that his backstory comes off as a little too generic and JRPG-esque, which is a big no-no for Dragon Ball. Otherwise he’s a great villain, though unfortunately locked out from mainline DB canon beyond the game universes. Zamasu in Super is sort of like a substitution for Demigra, as he’s a similar character (a fallen Shinjin with a massive ego and divine Messiah Complex) with a similar set-up (a saga that heavily involves time travel, Future Trunks, and a threat to the entire multiverse), but he manages to be his own unique character despite this, more youthful than Demigra and even more insufferably pompous and self-important. And unlike the unashamedly evil Demigra, Zamasu is firmly convinced in his own righteousness and that every action he takes is in the name of divine justice and the creation of a pure universe, even though the actions themselves and his frequent behavior towards others, other deities included, show him as anything but - he’s a cruel, petty, and narcissistic sociopath with delusions of grandeur. Think Light Yagami if he actually had become a god! His other self, Goku Black, is even scarier given how he inhabits a god-tier Saiyan’s body and even melds his own divine power into it’s own to create new techniques and even a new Super Saiyan form, and is a complete badass throughout. And the voice actor performances (both Shinichiro Miki and Masako Nozawa in the original, and James Marsters and Sean Schemmel in the dub) are fantastic. My two quibbles with him would be the explanation for Black’s coming into being was a little convoluted and goofy, and that the Black Hole Eldrich Abomination that melds itself into the entire universe that his consciousness becomes after his defeat/death was just complete nonsense, pushing Zamasu firmly into Villain Sue territory and making him a living Diablos Ex Machina to instigate a horribly bleak end to his saga. Oh well. Can’t all be perfect like Cell.

3. Vegeta - Nowadays with Vegeta being a much better person and one of the most heroic characters in the series (which is great) and also the main deuteragonist/Lancer to Goku in all sagas (which is not so great), it could be easy to forget just what a truly, wonderfully evil bastard, and one of the top greatest villains, he used to be. As the surviving prince of the Saiyan race, even sharing the same name as his late father and now obliterated planet, Vegeta’s pride is monumental and he believes he has, from birth, deserved to be most powerful warrior of all time and space, and supreme ruler of the universe despite him being basically enslaved to serve under Freeza, who also has those ambitions. Before we found out that part about Freeza, though, Vegeta was the Big Bad for the prior saga and by being such a sinister, meticulous, cunning warrior who could back up his arrogance with sheer awesome might, he was more imposing a threat than even Piccolo, the so-called Demon King! Despite his short stature, his ability to keep his composure until he lets out his feral rage made him fearsome to his larger and more brutal partner, Nappa. Toriyama hadn’t initially intended to keep him alive past his saga, but he proved so popular with both readers and his editors that he had his life be spared and it cannot be overstated what a terrific move it was to keep him alive for the next saga, as he received some of the best parts of that saga with his magnificent bastardry, even ending up in an unexpected alliance with the good guys in its latter half that lay the seeds for his eventual redemption arc. In retrospect it’s rather odd that Vegeta got as far as he did since his character was originally written to be nothing but a completely evil prick. I think his success is owed to him being the greatest candidate for an archrival to Goku that Toriyama ever came up with, being of the same race as him and even sharing some similar characteristics, yet being his polar opposite based on how and where the two were raised and thus what they value most. Oddly enough, their development courses have gone in reverse too - Vegeta’s grown more human while Goku has grown more detached from humanity and more in touch with his Saiyan nature. I could go on about what an interesting and fun character Vegeta is, but I’ll spare you all and just mention one minor gripe I have with him (aside from his role in the franchise post-Buu Saga, which remains a major gripe): what the heck happened to his personality after he got revived on Namek by the wish on Earth’s Dragon Balls? Piccolo was one thing, but Vegeta’s more grouchy, aggressive, hot-tempered and bombastic characterization is almost downright irreconcilable with his earlier characterization. Did he come back wrong? Did Freeza’s brutal torture of him before his death do permanent mental and emotional damage? I love the character either way, but it's shaky writing.

4. King Piccolo / Piccolo Jr. - Here’s the guy who was the originally intended Ultimate Evil of the Dragon Ball universe. Oh how times have changed. This spot is both for the original King Piccolo, born of all the inner demons that the nameless Namekian who became Kami Sama exorcised from his consciousness, and Piccolo Jr., who was born from an egg like all Namekian offsprings but imbued with his father’s spirit, making him the Demon King reincarnated. With his appealingly alien design, intimidating voice acting, epic theme music and majestic presence whenever he shows up, Piccolo stands as one of Toriyama’s best villains even to this day. He’s also one of the smartest Dragon Ball villains, one of the few who never succumbed to Bond Villain Stupidity, thinking meticulously and acting with competence from start to finish, damn nearly defeating Goku and all his heroic allies who stand against his reign of terror. The guy even make a successful bid for world domination, holding all governments on the planet hostage with the threat of his power, even planning on making a national holiday in which he destroys one major location in the four corners of the Earth annually, just for kicks! Even after his death, his wickedness endured through Piccolo Jr., who went undercover at the 23rd Budokai just to take revenge on Goku and claim the title of world’s strongest warrior in order to assert his supremacy and put the world under his green thumb once again. Piccolo is very much the same case as Vegeta when it comes to how his character development progressed - for someone who was created and written to be nothing but pure evil, he ended up growing a conscience and caring about someone else, the son of his hated enemy no less, and from there he grew more noble and good-hearted until he was finally willing to re-merge with Kami in order to have the power needed to protect the things and people on Earth that he’d grown to cherish, which was unexpected but beautiful development for his character. Also like Vegeta his characterization had a slight shift before his redemption truly started, but this one was more believable since he’d gotten older and more mellow between the end of pre-Z DB and DBZ, having never been the pure evil beast his father had been and still showing signs in the early Vegeta Saga that the devilish, maniacal Piccolo hadn’t fully gone away yet. As a bad guy and as a good guy, Piccolo is just plain awesome, and one of the most endearing and respectable DB characters for that.

5. Beerus and Whis - After years of the DB franchise recycling ideas, characters and concepts usually from DBZ for all of its content, these two were such a breath of fresh air. Beerus, the God of Destruction for Universe 7, has an immediately appealing design, being clearly inspired by the Egyptian God of death, Anubis, having both canine and feline characteristics in his look and mannerisms. His concept is also great - he’s like a dark counterpart to a universe’s Supreme Kaioshin with destructive power so immense and seemingly limitless that they need a guardian angel to keep them in check, which is where Whis comes in. The personalities of these two and how they play off each other is the best part. Beerus is callous, egocentric, and apathetic to a fault, but also frequently lazy, childish, quirky and eccentric, possessing a strong appetite, and is subject to wild mood swings that effect the way his power is let out. He’s, to put it plainly, an immature psychopath, but being a deity who exists far above mortal beings, he lives by his own code and his thinking is far beyond the morality that mortals or other deities tend to possess, so it's hard to call him truly evil. He’s as great an ally to have on your side as he is as terrifying an enemy to have against you. His growing bond of friendship with Goku and the Z Warriors all while he still stays true to his character but slowly comes to soften up and learn to act in more reasonable ways has been one of the best parts of DBS. Oh, and Whis - he’s cool. And nice. And scary powerful. And both he and Beerus, together or apart, are super hilarious. Some of the best characters to be iconic fixtures of the franchise for years to come.

6. Android 21 - A secret 21st android created by Dr. Gero who got loaded with energy from a super computer that gave her more power than she knew how to handle, driving her batshit insane, spiteful, and destructive as a result, having a very attractive design and an equally sexy Majin form, being pretty much an android version of Launch who ends up going through a literal personality split similar to Majin Buu, is a glutton for delectable treats who has a tragic character arc, a personality like Zero Two from Darling in the Franxx, and the dub voice actress of Riko Sakarauchi from Love Live Sunshine!!? How could you not fall for this bitch? Easily one of the coolest, most creative and most enjoyable DB villains in recent years to be sure.

7. Fu - Another really fun villain to enter the franchise in recent years. The son of Mira and Towa, and the nephew of Demon Lord Dabura, Fu could care less about the ramifactions of his heritage or the dull politics of the demon realm, as he's set his sights on bigger things. Inquisitive and experimental by nature, he's made his M.O messing with the stream of time and intervening in different worlds branched off from different timelines so that he can create any wild and wacky scenario he wants to enjoy. Yeah, he's a DB fanboy surrogate, and it shows in the joyfully eccentric, geeky personality he expresses. Fu goes so meta with his canon-defiling, reality-bending passion projects and with his brand of humor, he's like DB's own Deadpool! But he is absolutely not one to be underestimated just for his silly behavior, for he's one of the most cunning, meticulous and unpredictable adversaries in the franchise. In the Xenoverse canon, he's become the recurring arch nemesis to the Time Patrol who's yet to be brought to justice, and in the Heroes canon, he steals from varying alternate timelines and uses what he attains to devastating effect, gaining more power for himself as he does to the point where he's eventually made the Dark King of the demon realm and seeks to create his own universe that'd play to his ideal rules. Wherever or wherever Fu shows up, disasters are always guaranteed to follow.

8. Emperor Pilaf - Putting this guy up so high seems ridiculous, especially since he wasn’t ever a Big Bad in the original manga, only getting that status from the anime adaptation beefing up his role and giving him more screen time in the series’ first saga. Three things score him this spot - he’s just plain hilarious, he was actually a legit danger to our heroes (and possibly the entire world had his wish been granted) in his earliest appearances despite having no power, and he’s been brought back to the franchise and received a good deal of character growth to the point of becoming a friend/ally to the heroes just as Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, Buu, and Beerus have. His chemistry with his two agents, Mai and Shu, is always a delight to watch, and his VAs tend to make him immensely entertaining, especially Chuck Huber in the Funimation dub, whose voice and delivery for him has not changed in the slightest in all these years.

9. Tao Pai Pai - I'm kind of cheating here as well since he’s technically not a Big Bad in any saga he appeared in, but he was the source of the most tension and peril in the Red Ribbon Saga in how an act of evil committed by him changed the trajectory of Goku's quest for Dragon Balls, and he had a part in the entire drama of the 22nd Budokai Saga’s plot, so he deserves a spot here. Introduced as a mercenary killer hired by Commander Red to kill Goku, Tao became the Heavy for the saga during this period. Up to that point Goku had faced enemies who could nearly take him in a fight before (General Blue, who Tao kills with his tongue) but hadn’t ever seemed in any real danger from an enemy who could kill him. Tao changed that. He was very dangerous, very formidable at fighting, and very murderous, with there being a very real possibility of him actually killing Goku because he's the first character to kill others on-screen. His character was also a notable change of pace in how villains before him were all light-hearted and comical, or at the very least generic., but Tao, by contrast, was a stone cold professional killer with seemingly only two looks to give: serious poker face or psychotic evil smirk. He doesn’t just kill because it’s profitable, he relishes the hunt and the sensation of bringing other living creatures down before he takes their life. He’s a true villain played straight, which makes his eventual ass kicking at Goku’s hands and the comical reactions he starts giving all the more satisfying and hilarious. While he’s nowadays not as notable or cool as other villains and even seems rather dated, one thing to consider is that with his greed, sadism and fondness for killing, pink and purple color scheme, courtesy and formality when speaking and conducting business with others, attempting to kill Goku after being granted the mercy he’d pleaded for only to have Goku knock his attack right back at him so that it blows him up instead, and then coming back as a cyborg, working alongside an evil family member in the name of revenge…yes, Tao seems to have been Toriyama’s prototype for Freeza.

10. Majin Buu - While his saga was notoriously poorly done on the whole, his character and effectiveness got messed up in its last stretch, and he nowadays almost reads like a prototype for what would later be perfected by Beerus, Majin Buu was still a fine villain(s) for what he was, as well as a fairly unique and memorable one even if he didn’t make for the best Big Bad. Brought into Universe 7 by the dark wizard Bibidi to match and even surpass the Kaioshins, Buu got more powerful the more Kaioshins he slayed and devoured the energy of, and by the time he was sealed away he’d become the most powerful mortal being in existence. Which is an asset to him but also a fault: Freeza had declared himself the most powerful mortal being in the universe, but now we learn that there’d once been a being even more powerful (and later learn that Freeza knew that)? Cell being more powerful than Freeza was justifiable because his literal creation happened only after Freeza’s time and he was made to be the most powerful fighter ever from the cells of the most powerful fighters, Freeza included. Pulling out this random ancient demonic djinn as the next most powaful evul threat evah!!! just felt cheap. But back on his character, I like Fat Buu and the initial Super Buu the best out of all his forms, the former for being the most unexpectedly silly and endearing of all the Buus and the one who actually reforms and sticks around after the saga’s over, and the latter for impressively balancing being ridiculous and humorous with being sinister and menacing, and much smarter than his brutish demeanor suggests, plus he got some wicked awesome theme music in the original dub. Kid Buu’s in the middle, as he’s alright and a well done example of a Generic Doomsday Villain with no personality, goal, or motive for living other than to kill and destroy…but he’s still a Generic Doomsday Villain, so he lacks a character and can’t hold my interest for very long. I don’t care for the briefly seen Evil Buu that ate up Fat Buu to make Super Buu, and I completely abhor Super Buucalotenkshan or whatever we call that long headed abomination - yeah, Super Buu is one of my favorites AND my least favorites among the Buu forms! Go figure. All in all, Buu was a good idea for a worthy foe to be faced by Gohan and pals, but horribly marred by poor execution of his character, his powers, and his saga as a whole. So he’s pretty above average to me.

11. Janemba - The Majin Buu substitute of Movie 12, Fusion Reborn, created when some slacker custodian of Hell got infected with the accidental leak of an unstable dark substance made from dark souls that began tearing at the fabric of life and death, letting the denizens of Hell loose onto Earth. While I wasn’t the biggest fan of him in his initial large, chubby yellow form, when he changed into that smaller, red Satan looking motherf**ker up there, he immediately caught my attention. He’s just so menacing, so psychotic, and so diabolically evil in even the way he fights that I think I like him better than Kid Buu, the canon villain he was emulating. He’s a pretty unique DBZ movie villain, and his big face-off with Gogeta is simply unforgettable.

12. Dr. Wheelo - The main villain of the second movie, The World's Strongest. Two things score him a spot here - his creepiness factor and his motivation. His mind was wished back into the world by his old associate, Dr. Kochin, but his body was not, meaning that the only physical part of him to be seen is his brain, which is placed in a special tube that just happens to connect with a large mechanical body, and he always speaks in a low, calm, sinister voice that’s slightly modulated by a robotic filter. That’s just nightmarish. And unlike many later DBZ movie villains, Wheelo actually has a clearly stated goal and motive - he wants to weed out the world’s strongest fighter so that his brain can be put inside of that fighter’s body, and he can then wield awesome power and test his new body’s fighting capabilities for science in order to become the greatest and the strongest scientist to ever live. It’s sick, weird, and a little bit B-Movie mad science plot, but it works and helps make Wheelo stand out as one of Goku’s most unsettling foes. In fact, it could be argued that he even beat Dr. Gero to it with the whole "mad scientist creating androids to go after Goku" thing. We later got to see Dr. Wheelo's original body when he partnered up with Fu in Dragon Ball Heroes, and he even gained a sleeker metallic form that he could control.

13. Coola - No, I refuse to call him Cooler. That only works if Freeza is named Freezer, but he’s not, so it’s just silly. Anyway, Coola is the older brother of Freeza and the villain of two movies in a row, Movies 5 and 6. If there’s any movie villain who seems like he could fit right into Toriyama’s canon, it’s Coola. He leads his own section of his clan’s Planet Trade business empire and while he’s a notably better boss than his brother, that doesn’t make him any better an individual. Coola is actually a lot more level headed, mature, and pragmatic than Freeza, which is why he’s always been envious of how far ahead Freeza got in terms of power since birth, and how their father blatantly favored Freeza despite all the errors he made that seemed obvious to Coola. But when Freeza seemingly died by Goku’s hand, Coola’s loyalty to the notion of clan supremacy meant that he had to seek vengeance for his brother’s death, which is when he also showed off that he mastered an additional transformation of his final form that makes him even more powerful than Freeza! So let’s see, older brother of the series’ most iconic villain who is smarter and more competent than he, a better boss who inspires the actual loyalty of his minions, and has mastery over a fifth, even more powerful transformation that not even Freeza, the “most powerful being in the universe”, had or knew of? If you’re getting “fanfiction OC Villain Sue” vibes, I wouldn’t blame you, but that actually brings up the most brilliant part of Coola’s character - he’s actually a deconstructive subversion of a Villain Sue. For all his dismissal of Freeza’s overconfidence and being blinded by hatred of his Saiyan enemies, he falls prey to the exact same things during his battle with Goku, and then as he’s dying he realizes that Goku only lived to get as strong as he is because he’d seen his space pod shooting off into space but made the colossally stupid mistake of just letting him go while at the same time he was chiding Freeza for making the stupid mistake of overlooking the escaping pod! Seeing this hit Coola as he burns up in the sun is an immensely satisfying payoff. He kinda-sorta makes a comeback for the following movie, and has appeared in The Plan To Eradicate The Saiyans and a handful of video games, but nothing beats the memorability of his big debut.

14. Turles - The main villain of the third DBZ movie, Tree of Might. If Turles' appearance looks familiar to you, it's because he's sort of the OG Goku Black years before Black was a thing. In the movie he's depicted as a surviving Saiyan who swayed a handful of Freeza forces to defect from the Empire with him and form a competitor business, the Turles Crusher Corps, and there's literally no reason for him to share a face and hairstyle with Goku other than for symoblic purposes, as he represents with Kakarot might've grown up to be like had he never landed on Earth, gotten adopted by Gohan, and got a concussion, as the movie spells out towards the end. This setup seems pretty lazy, but Turles somehow manages to be an interesting, enjoyably fiendish and clever villain with a unique plan for sucking the life out of Earth so that he can lay claim to it and all its resources. My only lament with him is that the thrilling fight between him and Goku is for whatever reason continously interrupted by shots of the Earth as it's being effected by the Tree of Might, which weighs down the pace of the movie. But at least he goes out with a bang!

15. Garlic Jr. - The first DBZ anime movie villain and one of the good ones. The reasons for this is twofold - how he actually succeeds at what both Vegeta and Freeza wanted to do, wishing on the Dragon Balls for eternal life. But rather than making him too broken, this actually became a drawback for him in the end, as he’s stuck with a fate worse than death that he’s unable to escape. And also just how freaking dark and devilishly wicked he is. Seriously, here’s a dialogue sample from him: “The people of the universe better hear my voice now! From this day forward, I, Garlic Jr., will rule over all. I command all evil spirits to come forward and take on their physical forms once again. You are free to walk! A new dark age has finally begun! Let this world be drenched in the blood of the righteous. Now that I’m immortal, I will rule the universe forever! All creatures will obey me or perish. With every power I posses, my reign of terror will be everlasting!” Gives me chills, especially Don Brown’s rendition. Unfortunately, he also has two serious drawbacks. Not only is his entire evil plot that gains him immortality founded upon a massive plot hole (he tries to have Kami and Piccolo killed even though that would erase the Dragon Balls too, and he has Gohan abducted for no reason rather than simply take his Dragon Ball), but he was also recycled as the Big Bad of a godawful filler saga between the Freeza and Cell sagas of the anime that sort of suffered the Return Of Jafar syndrome - he himself wasn’t awful, he just didn’t show us much that we didn’t already see before and done better in his movie, wasn’t well serviced by the plot, and in general it just wasn’t a smart move to bring him into the anime’s narrative, as he and the events of his movie are incompatible with the canon story. His saga’s not quite Noah Kaiba level bad, but it’s close. That might’ve forever tarnished his image with fans, but he was a great villain in his debut movie.

16. Broly and Paragus - The evil Saiyans of Movie 8, The Legendary Super Saiyan. While the concept of two other surviving Saiyans of Planet Vegeta’s destruction seemed hard to swallow at first, they’re given some backstory that actually makes it plausible and even damn interesting, so they’re not merely another Turles situation. Paragus is fascinating due to how you can sympathize with him and understand why he’s bitter and yearns for a world to claim as his own and start up a new Saiyan race. However, he’s not only evil, deceptive, and a cold-blooded bastard, he is wildly, theatrically villainous, always flailing around with excitement and energy that makes him fun to watch. But its his young son Broly who’s the true theat. While he seems timid and quiet at first, it’s revealed that he’s the first known Saiyan to transform into a Super Saiyan outside of legend…and he’s also completely off his rocker. Broly is a psychotic monster, a sadist and a bully who relishes the opportunity to flaunt his power and destroy the lives of others for his own sick pleasure and amusement, and once a rampage starts for him, it will not stop until everyone and everything in his path is dead. His power is also very out of control, which is why Paragus does his best efforts to control his son and contain that power, which proves to be in vain when Goku becomes a factor, as Broly is 100% single-mindedly obsessed with killing Goku, or “KAKAROOOOTT!” as he's known to call him. There’s actually a reason for Broly’s madness, and while it's notoriously petty, it's not entirely nonsensical - when he was a newborn infant, his power rose to an abnormal level, as did that of the baby born on the same day who was right next to him: Kakarott. When Kakarott started crying, Broly eventually started crying too, with both babies shut in tubes unable to budge anywhere….and then King Vegeta ordered for baby Broly to be killed for his abnormal power level. Both he and his father barely survived…and Planet Vegeta got blown up soon after. So Goku isn’t really a reason for any of Broly’s insanity, he’s a trigger for it. His warped mind forever associates Kakarott and his crying with that trauma, so naturally he wants to silence Kakarott for good. Which still doesn’t even begin to excuse the level of cruelty Broly displays, though - as Gohan put it, he’s pure evil. Even Broly himself proudly proclaims to be a freak, a monster, even a DEVIL! He really was a solid villain in his debut movie, who unfortunately became an utterly awful one in his two later comebacks and it turned him into an oversaturated mess of a character, which kills a lot of goodwill that some could have for him. Alas, another victim of his own popularity. Thank Kami for Super!

17. Mira and Towa - A demonic duo known as the Time Breakers. Mira is the muscle of the team, preferring to take on enemies with his special powers and enhanced physical capabilities, whereas Towa is both the brains and the true power behind things, possessing both powerful sorcery skills and advanced scientific knowledge that she uses for her sick little experiments. It turns out that Towa is actually the sister of Dabura himself, and Mira is a warrior that she created through alchemy. First appearing in the MMORPG, Dragon Ball Online, and reappearing in the Xenoverse games, Heroes, Fusions, Kakarot and more, these two fiends have been relentless, formidable, and devious in all of their appearances to date.

18. Sealas and Aeos - Two of the most notable exclusive villains to come out of Super Dragon Ball Heroes, owing a lot to their designs and how they're both fallen heroes connected to time and space. Sealas is the founding operative of the Time Patrol and a strict believer in cosmic justice and in the greater good of necessary evils, wishing to do what's righteous even if he has to break natural laws and alter history to do so. Taking "with great power there must come great responsibility" to its most extreme, unhealthy level, Sealas broke with the Time Patrol and concluded that evil itself must be eradicated, and that this can only be truly done if history is rewritten to exclude all evil. It's a bit familiar and akin to Zamasu's motives, but much more "puritan" and semi-heroic in style and substance. Aeos, meanwhile, is the former Supreme Kai of Time who predates the Time Patrol and she cares nothing for any moralistic ideals such as justice: she is concerned only with balance and natural order, believing the existence of multiple timelines to be a threat to that. Personality-wise, she's one of the most fascinating antagonists in the franchise, seeming haughty, cold, and disdainful towards mortal beings and dismissive of her successor, yet she also showcases softer, kinder qualities, does deeds that seem good and fair, and isn't always so above it all when it comes to tactful reactions and behavior. She's hard to peg down, but after joining up with Chronoa and the rest for the final battle with Demigra, she has a change of heart regarding the multiverse and makes peace with her successor.

19. Hearts - Also hailing from the Dragon Ball Heroes canon is this dude. Hearts is a pale elven man who leads the Core Area Warriors and is known as the God Hater for his acts of revolt against the cosmic divine pantheon of the multiverse, as he seeks to liberate all mortal beings from the gods' grip. In this sense, he's like a Reverse Zamasu, cursing the existence of deities and wanting to kill them all in order to achieve a truly "free" multiverse. While arrogant, brash, hypocritical and self-righteous, Hearts is one of the more principled and values-believing baddies. He believes strongly in the multiverse's "nourishment" but has no qualms with launching terrorist attacks on planets and killing countless people in order to free only the surviving remainers, and it's a hypocritical contradiction he openly admits to and welcomes with grace. He's a rare good boss for this franchise who values his mortal comrades, and he appreciates a good fight with strong opponents just as much as the likes of Goku. Fittingly, he makes a Heel Turn later on and becomes as cool an ally as he was an enemy. My one huge issue with him is in his design - I think the hair he had during his initial appearance as a villain is way too similar to that of Fu, which makes looking at him a bit confusing. Thankfully he got a longer, more spiked out, better hair style later on.

20. Jiren the Gray - In what’s almost a reverse of Majin Buu, I didn’t care for this guy at all when he first came on the scene but he had a fairly strong finish to his run. He was this cookie cutter big, strong, silent, uber powerful warrior whose character was flat, archetype was done to death, and he just there to be what you were made to think Hit was going to be back in the Universe 6 Saga. In fact, I wouldn’t have classified him as a villain and put him here at all had the final round of the Tournament of Power not gone the way it did. We gradually came to learn that Jiren did have a single belief he followed in addition to his conviction to being the strongest fighter for the sake of his universe - that trust in others only ends in pain and disappointment, and that friendship need not exist among allies and teammates. He’s here for alliances, never for bonds. We even get his dark and troubled backstory that informs why he thinks and acts the way he does, which made him a lot more interesting in retrospect. And finally there’s his show of power in the final battle of the tournament. Holy crap, this is like what Majin Buu should have been in terms of how his full power was expressed. Jiren just feels like a nigh unstoppable engine of raw power and destructive fury. He exudes pure stamina, and for fighters with the power that the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Freeza, and even Android 17 have, there could be no worthier opponent. And if his “villain” status was in doubt, he fucking throws an attack straight at Goku’s friends in a spiteful act that forces Goku to jump in the way and ultimately de-powers him, which does effectively ensure that it was then impossible to root for Jiren and we wanted to see him get his ass handed to him even more! But despite this, he also displayed some honor and displeasure in having to take Goku out in a dirty way as suggested by Belmond, making him hard to outright hate either. The final leg of the fight with him is nothing short of amazing and the way he goes down is incredibly satisfying to see. He even gets a very touching sendoff with his teammates and then when brought back into existence, shows signs of possibly rethinking things and starting to grow and change for the better, and his hope to have a rematch with Goku and the rest of Universe 7′s fighters might be a sign of more things in times yet to come.

21. Lord Slug - The main villain of Movie 4. While he's a flat character with little motivation beyond warfare and conquest of worlds, Slug mainly works for the twist that was pulled with his character, as well known as it is now. Him blatantly ripping off King Piccolo's shtick of being old and wishing for his youth restored should give it away, but the fact that Slug is Namekian is a big reveal in the film, because he actually went to lengths to hide that about himself, wearing a helmet that covers his antennaes and ears, and coverings around his arms and legs. This is what makes him stand out, the fact that he is an actual, genuinely, by choice evil Namekian, who in a brazen act of betrayal of his people has become an invading warlord who makes conflicts and kills others, going directly against the Namekian's peace-loving ways. He also happens to be a Super Namekian, one who can expand his size to even larger heights than even Piccolo could! His big fight with Goku was overall nothing to write home about save for that and the moment Goku becomes a False Super Saiyan, but how he gets defeated, I could never forget.

22. Bojack - The main villain of Movie 9, Bojack Unbound. As hard as it is to hear his name and not think of a certain Horse Man, Bojack was quite the credible threat with a slick design and a charismatic presence. The strongest, most ruthless and fearsome space pirate in the universe, he rought havock across all four galaxies before getting imprisoned by the Kais. He's also a flat character who just exists to provide this movie with a villain, and how he and his crew come into the plot is absolutely ludicrous - turns out he was imprisoned inside of King Kai's planet, somehow even surviving what Beerus did to it, but got released when it got blown up by self-destructing Cell. And then they go on to partake in a beat by beat repeat of the Cell Games. In a movie where the Cell Games were established to have occurred. That's the one thing that takes me out about him, but otherwise he gets the job done well enough and was badass enough to make repeat appearances in Fusion Reborn and games, most notably Dragon Ball Heroes, which fleshed out his character better.

23. Dr. Lychee/Hatchiyack - Technically Dr. Lychee is an old alien scientist and Hatchiyack is his creation that carries on his hateful mind and spirit after he's passed away, but they’re connected in that way so they’ve both got this spot here. Originating from The Plan To Erradicate The Saiyans, the first DBZ video game to actually have a plot and two different OVA adaptations to accompany it, Lychee actually has understandable reason to hate the Saiyans and want them wiped out because, well, the Saiyans when working under the Freeza Planet Trade Empire were horrible and he’s one of their many victims. Thus Hatchiyack was created to be the ultimate anti-Saiyan weapon. And clearly the idea behind this caught on with fans and creators alike, as both Dr. Myuu with Baby in GT and Dr. Paparoni with Aniraza in Super were clearly inspired by Dr. Lychee and Hatchiyack. In that way, this mad space doctor’s spirit still lives on.

24. Dr. Myuu - Speaking of ol’ Dr. Myuu, he’s one of the beter villains from the poorly done turd pile that was Dragon Ball GT. Being one part alien and one part machine, possessing a keen scientific mind and a feverish passion for his experiments, and having ambitions to control the universe and convert all of its denizens into his machines, Myuu was a cruel and treacherous villain who raised the stakes and darkened up the scene in a show that had begun as a stupid wacky throwback to DB’s roots but Recycled IN SPACE! From his very design, you can tell he's essentially Dr. Gero Recycled IN SPACE! He masterminded much of what went on in that initial saga by directing the Cult of Ludd from behind the curtian, had many intimidating robotic and cyborg henchman like General Rilldo (himself a decent antagonist too), even had Giru working with Goku, Pan and Trunks as a spy for him (or so he’d hoped), and the set of episodes on Planet M-2 where the heroes faced him down really was the high point of the GT series, especially when it reached it’s downright terrifying finale. Myuu himself was also the best part of the otherwise abysmal Super 17 saga, where he got to work with his counterpart Dr. Gero, and stab him in the back to try and rule Hell and Earth,

25. Baby - OK, his character is uninspired and derived from other, better villains, his arrival on Earth marked when GT took a turn for the increasingly worse and more boring, and his name is Baby: there is no fucking way I can take that as a serious villain. Yet despite all that, he's objectively the strongest GT-exclusive Big Bad. The idea behind his character arc is actually brimming with potential, how he's a living conduit of wrath against the Saiyans for all the victims they'd claimed as well as seeking a new planet to settle and populate, but in his fervor to achieve his goals he ends up becoming every bit as cruel, self-interested and power-mad as the Saiyans. He's also the source of some genuine horror and Paranoia Fuel with how he can extend his mind and possess anyone he chooses. The execution just fails him like it failed many others, including a needless extended takeover of Vegeta's body, a transformation into a giant golden gorilla, and getting killed while trying to flee rather than engaging in one final fight. Good for him that he's not the worst, but he still could've been much better than a weird pale Hatchiyack imitation.

Honorable Mentions:

Dr. Gero - This guy played Greater Scope Villain for the Red Ribbon Saga, the Androids/Cell Saga, and Dragon Ball Super: Superhero, not to mention had a part in other stuff like (ugh) the Super 17 Saga in GT and the storyline of FighterZ. Gero is unique in that he never really got to play the Big Bad role at any point despite having been the originally intended Big Bad for the Androids Saga, yet stands responsible for as much widespread damage as any Big Bad all due to the bitterness, hatred, malice and stubborn pride within him that refused to die even as he aged and lost all the family he had. While he thus couldn't make the list, it is commendable all the same.

Tienshinhan - Tien played the role of Big Bad for the 22nd Budokai Saga, fighting in the tournament under the guidance of his mentor, Master Shen the Hermit Crane. A good old fashioned martial arts antagonist in the vein of the Cobra Kai jerks in The Karate Kid, Tien played the role with exquisite disdain, cockiness, and cold blooded cruelty while also being the most interesting character who recieves great character development before his explosive bout with Goku and embarking on a compelling redemption arc for the next Sagas. Far from the franchise's best baddie, but servicable for what he was.

Babidi - Initially the primary antagonist of the Majin Buu arc before Buu himself killed him and went rouge to do his own shit, the dark wizard Babidi is completely vile and reprehensible, not to mention absolutely hideous, but managed to retain a certain charm and whimsy about him that is typical in Toriyama antagonists. The terror of Buu would not have been possible without him and his deceased father Bibidi, nor would the good stuff that came with it like the sacrificial redemption of Vegeta, the fusions of Goten and Trunks, and the character development of Mr. Satan! Oh, and the debut of...

Dabura - While introduced to the franchise as a cultist working with Babidi to revive Majin Buu, Dabura was also stated to be among the most powerful of lords from the demon realm, someone who even the Supreme Kai feared, and carried about him quite the fiendish, sinister presence, making how he got done in by Buu to feel like quite a waste. Thankfully, he's made a resurgance in video game canons like Xenoverse and Heroes, expanding upon him as a Big Bad devil!

Black Smoke Shenron - I actually don’t like this one - I just like the idea behind him. The concept that the great dragon diety of the Dragon Balls turns into a dark, evil creature as consequence of the Dragon Balls being overused for selfish wishes was a very inspired one, and that’s…actually an even better idea for a franchise final boss than Freeza, Cell, Buu, or Beerus, as it hearkens back to the very start of the story. So it's a damn shame that this concept had to be utterly wasted with the underwhelming, unitelligable usage of the 7 Shadow Dragons, even the cool looking Omega Shenron! Just give me the initial cigar chomping evil smoke dragon and I’m good!

[bluehairlaunch]

7 Dragon Ball Villains that could've carried their own arc

Honorable mention, Sorbet. So I enjoy Frieza as much as the next guy, but his wacky and colorful Frieza Force is what firmly places the Namek Saga over the Cell Saga in my mind. Like they're all such memorable characters that I even like Cui ffs. However, let's be real, none of these guys could carry their own arc. At their heart, they're all followers (all except good ol' Geets). Maybe before their recruitment they had more ambition and determination, but when faced with Frieza's insurmountable power, they ultimately all bent over and bowed.

Sorbet is an odd example, because he is definitely a follower as well, although when the power vacuum that is Frieza and King Cold's death opened up, he didn't turn away. He instead took charge and kept the Planet Trade Organization afloat for DECADES, despite being a koala-man with a power level that I'm sure rivals Appule at best.

The only reason he's not on the list proper is because when we finally get to see Sorbet in action, he's trying to pass the torch back to Frieza. He still gets major points tho for leading as long as he did

Spoilers: no one else from Super is on this list, even though a filler character is

Monster Beast Giran

Look, I'm not saying Giran could've carried his own saga, but if Dragon Ball had been written by a more traditional shonen mangaka instead of a gag artist, he probably would've been the Big Bad of the 21st World Martial Arts Tournament. And yes, I'm using his added characterization from filler scenes in the anime to make my point.

A milk drinking brute with a voracious appetite and a deep-seated hatred of heroes, this absolute unit was unfortunately no match for Goku in canon, but his hulking appearance and quirky personality (at least in the anime) always stuck out to me. In my generic re-write of this arc, a majorly buffed Giran faces Jackie Chun instead, and defeats him. He then faces and almost defeats Goku in the final, but Goku transforms into a real monster beast for the win, and that's that

Yea I won't be trying to retell the story for the rest of these entries

Raditz

It says a lot about the quality of Toriyama's villains that Goku's evil brother from space is a mere speed bump on the road to the real top dog of the Saiyan Saga. This dude is so fucking sexy and such a piece of shit that I can't help but imagine what he could've gotten himself into if only he had more screentime

Staff Officer Black

I know Toriyama loves subverting expectations and that's one of the things I so greatly enjoy about Dragon Ball, but c'mon. Commander Black of the Black Ribbon Army would've been... so so sooo cool. The dude's a true believer, actually loyal to his men, and idk what Red did to become the leader over him, but he seems to have been the real brains behind the operation. Dragon Ball Online brought back Commander Red as a cyborg and all I'm asking is why not Staff Officer Black instead?

Turles

Aight so Tree of Might isn't the greatest movie, I'd even say it's mid at best, but it also has amazing ideas. The Tree of Might? Neat, inspired, scary, and also drawn from Journey to the West lore. Turles? Sexy tan Goku, what's not to like? His Crusher Corps? Don't get me started on his Crusher Corps, because they all have their own story, which was included in extraneous material, but not the movie itself.

Amond, the big guy? Yea he was an intergalactic criminal that was arrested by the Galactic Patrol until he was freed by Turles. Daiz was the Prince of the Pukimpa Dynasty that led his planet's army against Turles, but was defeated, then recruited for fighting so bravely. Cacao was a cyborg built to fight an interstellar war before he fucked off to become a bounty hunter and eventually join the Crusher Corps. Rasin and Lakasei were fossils resurrected by Turles using extract from the Tree of Might.

Fuck, Turles himself is a low-class Saiyan warrior that somehow found or stole the holy Seeds of Might, which were reserved for Kai. When I was a kid my older brother told me (read, lied to me lol) that Saiyans were all test tube babies grown from different strains and that's the difference between low medium and elite saiyans and why he and Goku are almost identical. Like, that's not true, but there's a lotta fleshing out you could do with Turles to make him and his potential saga more compelling

Demon King Dabura

Ruler of a shadowy demon realm for thousands of years with a power level that equals Perfect Cell, Demon King Dabura is also... the bitch of a tiny bitchy wizard? Yup, that's Toriyama all right.

So lemme start by saying that this guy gets so little credit he's not even in Fighterz, despite having a cool sword and a huge canon moveset. He also looks... well tbh, he doesn't look as awesome to adult me as he did to kid me, but he's still neat looking. I like his horns and his funky glamrock outfit. He also probably had his own Dabura Force filled with edgy evul henchmen (including Shula from that filler episode, who I'm pretty sure inspired Dabura's creation) that could've easily filled an entire saga.

It says a lot that Raditz isn't the lead of his saga, but imo it says way more that Toriyama created an entire evil universe opposite the regular universe ruled over by this baritone Satan and he's just a footnote. It also says a lot about Dragon Ball Heroes that instead of trying it's own thing, it digs up Toriyama's fossilized spittle and creates Mira, Towa, and Kabuto from Naruto.

Mercenary Tao Pai Pai

Ok so I'm biased, because this flamboyant bastard is easily one of my favorite villains, and that's including everything, not just Dragon Ball or comics. He oozes so much style that I'm not even sure how you could stretch him out into an entire arc, but it doesn't matter, because he could make it work. The dude can make watching someone else shop for clothes compelling ffs, so as far as I'm concerned, Tao could've been the villain for the whole of Dragon Ball and it'd be just or almost as good as what we actually got

His shirt says Kill You! he's seriously the best don't @ me

Dr. Gero

Mustache

Yes, I know he was supposed to be the Big Bad, but Toriyama's former editor didn't think an old man in baggy pants and a fat clown could carry their own arc, but they're wrong damn it! Just look at him

[viciousoverlord]

To say Ruco was lost on the house he was just moved into was an understatement, naturally to a baby at his height everything looked somewhat the same. Even Lucy got lost on occasion if she ventured off into corridors instead of staying in the vicinity of where he bedroom or all the other necessity are in the house, somewhere Ruco should be. So he would wonder, wonder until he hit a dead end. Well that little venture sure didn't end well, it seemed like he would be stuck here for a bit. Well that's what would go through his mind until he saw Kefla walk past.

"Oh..."

Truthfully the hybrid was intimidated by the demonic saiyan, the shyness he has also played a part as the stone faced male wasn't the easiest to approach sometimes. He was also still unfamiliar with the older male of the household, it wasn't like he saw him often outside of playdates and and when Lucy stayed over.

"H-hello...?"

His little voice would say, hoping to catch Keflas attention so he wouldn't be stuck in the infinite hallways that all looked the same. He wasn't exactly supposed to be this far from the main area of the house anyways, but that wasn't really going to stop either toddler from wondering.

[— Hm?]

His attention turned to the child that should not be here to begin with. His house could be considered a mansion as it was clearly was larger than a normal house for a family with two kids would. Fair to mention that he lived alone when he bought this ground and got people to built it for him. Plenty of rooms for specific important stuff that was only accessible to him. No-one but him had any business going into some rooms within this house, and that would not change even with the presence of Kolra. For all the other things that were under the house? That was completely off limits and better left unknown.

[— I guess you're lost, this house is pretty big.]

He acknowledged making eye contact with the child as he got to his level. Intimidation: how long had it been since he saw that from someone else? 26 years to be exact and that was thanks to being a soldier and not being as much as the evil selfish man he was before. Enough to be wanted dead by the galactic force for thousands of crimes. Yet, now they were working hands to hands. Time could change anyone if they were willing to accept the change.

[— You know, for a child. I think you're pretty courageous. I understand that you are afraid of me. You always lived alone with your mother, and now you're living in the house of a stranger. The name is Kefla and I hope you can become comfortable in my house and around me eventually. I'm not your father, but if you ever have enough place in your hearts for me, I'd be glad to become someone you can begin to see as a father.]

He extended his right hand toward the child and placed it upon his head. Just because they were on the same roof did not mean that Ruco was bound to love him or want to be around him. Some of his kids loved him and some hated him. It was their choice and he could only respect them. It would be the same with Ruco, love or hate, he would be fine with it. Hell, he would ever tell Kolra to focus on the well-being of her son over their relationship. Not that he probably would even need to, nothing matters more to her than Ruco.

[— Your mother will start being worried, so I'll take you to her.]

Kefla stood straight and turned to settle his gaze back onto the child. Thinking it would be best to take him into his arms, but with his reaction of earlier when he walked by. It would be unwise to do such when he was not comfortable around him. So, he turned his head away and began to walk forward.

[sweetescapeartist]

Listening to TottalNotMark's video about the Granolah Arc... You can tell he's one of those DB fans who doesn't understand the characters well & unknowingly views regression as progression. He claims Vegeta and Goku progressed in the manga arcs involving Moro & Granolah. They both regress. But the manga has them "learning." In reality, they are learning to regress.

From what I can tell from this video and others, he is a Saiyan fan. But one of those Saiyan fans who just like "cool moment" & doesnt understand Goku nor Vegeta. Seems to be a Vegeta fan too, & many Vegeta fans dont understand Vegeta's character either.

Sad that the ones that fans look to for good reviews and information barely understand the characters and themes of DB. And others who claim to be insightful only talk about Saiyans and warp the truth in order to win over more Vegeta fans, Gohan fans, or even Goku fans at times. Meanwhile, ppl who actually understand the series are pushed to the background.

You wanna grow big in the DB community?

Mostly talk about Saiyans and presebt innacuracy as truth.

Never talk about Earthlings & their cool feats of power unless its to make fun fun of them (specifically Krillin & Yamcha) or you're trying to cover your butt so you can say you do good stuff for Earthlings.

Heavily play into innacurate memes that are full of lies.

Praise Vegeta for everything he does, even his evil actions because he's "perfect" and does no wrong despite fans claiming he's the most developed.

Claim that Gohan is a savage and he has no development in Super simply because he isnt fighting and training all the time. (Didnt know that trying to find balance in your life made you suck. No wonder the fandom hates Krillin so much. He's the most balanced out of all the fighters and married characters.)

Make fun of Goku to appeas Vegeta fans and claim Goku has too much plot armor when Vegeta has the same if not more (prodigy who attained SSJ on his own and randomly shipped with Bulma so he can live a life of leisure and train all day without worries, handed out more power ups just so he keep up with Goku, does evil things and dies but ressurected when he didnt deserve it, ect. But Goku has plot armor... Imagine having more plot armor than the main character.)

A little rant... Done now

[bronyinabottle]

by the way do you know I’m going to make an anime called Nautica & lycoris cozy in it the prime timeline cozy and her name is Cozetta and you do know I meant to say give cozy empathy and a conscience and the pain would be from guilt it’s not brainwashing but giving her the tools to reform if she chooses to and you say How do you go about redeeming someone who wants to end all life on the planet 1 name Vegeta from dbz he killed planets and if it’s starlight sunset will be upset Cozetta can take i

The thing is with the Dragonball example there's two factors with Vegeta here. Not only was mass-genocide normal for Saiyans. Like, apparently even before Frieza placed them under his whim it was just something they did for fun. Frieza obviously was more than happy to condone it.

And by all means Saiyan/Namek saga Vegeta was a bad guy. And many of his kills are more than likely implied to have stayed. Including many of the innocent ones. There's no denying that, and even the most diehard Vegeta fans would say that's the truth. I would however say that Vegeta isn't the Dragonball example to be comparing Cozy to. I'd say that IDOTS Cozy is more of a Kid Buu situation with maybe a little bit of Cell in there. Obviously Cozy isn't as powerful as either of those villains, but they're both created/"parented" by villains (Bibidi/Babidi and Dr. Gero) that are probably as fucked up inside as their creation, the goal of total destruction is in line with Kid Buu along with the evil intelligence that lets her manipulate and seeking more power like Cell. (We should also keep in mind that while Buu is said to be like hundreds if not thousands of years old, Cell is technically 6)

I suppose then maybe you'll point out Kid Buu was reincarnated into Uub. But let's say what do you do if that's likely not possible. As reincarnating requires death to happen first, and it's clear on what happens when someone evil dies in the IDOTS universe that isn't possible to just have them become sentient again. From the moment an evil character dies in the IDOTS universe, any sentience they have is gone and they become dark magic that ravages a part of the planet.

The other factor is that while there is an afterlife in the IDOTS universe. Death is not curable by looking for seven trinkets and wishing from a magic dragon that they could be restored back to life good as new. Spirits stay spirits, death still has a consequence. I'd consider myself a fan of Dragonball, but I'd understand people having the criticism of the franchise that it treats death like just a slap on the wrist for it's recurring characters after all that happens. Even major deaths that are initially made to be a big deal such as Goku's sacrifice against Cell are eventually reversed when it came time for the Buu Saga and thus kept Goku alive to eventually make both GT and Super.

As much as it is cool that Dragonball got to have more new stuff as of late. It does seem like it ruins just about the perfect ending when it seemed like the savior of the earth was being passed down to Gohan from then on. Doesn't help that poor Gohan has been pretty much humilated most of the time since. Sure he got to beat up Super Buu real good, but then he had the drop the potara earring moment before he too was absorbed, and being tossed aside in Resurrection F like trash. Dragonball Super Hero has helped alleviate this somewhat, but those years of Gohan losing the spotlight back to his father aren't suddenly gone because of the new Beast Gohan form.

And while the ability to speak with the spirits of the deceased itself kinda treats death with a slap of the wrist as well. It's not as simple as they're alive again after a wish as in Dragonball. The best that can be done possibly, is what is brought up in the Sunspark story where potentially living beings willing to share their bodies with a spirit can be the closest to them being alive again (And a recommended period of splitting before the end of the 3rd day after the merger). Though even from that point, it should be noted it's recommended that both parties are willing to a merger even in that case.

The problem with your assumption of "tools to reform" with IDOTS Cozy is she would never choose to if given the chance. She played a willing part in the death of Sunset, and thus was a part of why Starlight was led down a dark path. There is no current path to unpetrifying Cozy under those circumstances that wouldn't cause issues. Even empathy must have it's limits. Starlight and Chrysalis each have tragic circumstances that they couldn't do much about, and compare with eachother to begin a bond with eachother as they got to know the other more as they never actually had the time to speak with one another while they were simply being a hero and a villain.

Trying to reform IDOTS Cozy on the other hand, is like any of us trying to reform the most unashamed Neo-nazis you can find on the internet.

And I know you keep mentioning whatever this Cozetta fic is, and that's perfectly fine. You don't have to have a Cozy that agrees with the IDOTS interpretation. I do not wish to make everybody think Cozy is an irredeemable monster in all cases. That's just the direction I decided to take her in this MLP AU. The show didn't give us alot of backing on Cozy, so it's possible to give her a more sympathetic backstory (Although I do think that's hard to reconcile with the fact she was sent to Tartaurus next to Tirek) if you really want to. I don't even think the canon Cozy was meant to be as evil as I'm interpreting in IDOTS. Everyone is allowed to take Cozy any direction they want with any fics that take place after the show. The idea is just not to demand people restrict themselves to a "popular" interpretation of Cozy as if that's what all Cozy fics should be like.

I've said it before, I have no ill will against Cozy as a character. I only took the direction I did since it fit with the story I wanted to tell. I have never intended to shame the character or any fans who prefer a more positive outlook on Cozy. The goal is IDOTS Cozy to be the irredeemable monster, while she co-exists just fine with Cozy's from other fanfics and/or stories that do have a Cozy capable of change. If you've seen Pony tumblrs for years, you should know of a practical multiverse where even the most goody-goody MLP characters are portrayed as unashamed serial killers (Namely most grimdark blogs with Pinkie as the main character). If you can keep that in mind, that's all you have to get to understand.

[blundergato]

i think it would have been neat if dragon ball separated its ki/abilities according to the different alien races. it SORT of dabbles in that, but it eventually all gets overshadowed by “just have a really big power level”

for example, i think that saiyans obviously have their ki abilities focused specifically around battle. this means that their battle powers grow faster than most other alien races, but their use of ki is pretty basic. thats why most saiyans have very basic “big beam that does lots of damage” sorts of attacks (galick gun, that big mint attack kefla uses, etc) that are straightforward and not creative whatsoever. it manifests even further with their transformations into the great ape which just boosts their battle power and gives them even BIGGER ki blasts. honestly, i would straight up take away their ability to fly because it just seems like something they would have never thought they needed to develop.

humans on the other hand have naturally lower fighting strength, but make up for it with being INCREDIBLY creative with their abilities. you see examples of this all throughout dragon ball and dbz; the destructo disk, the evil containment wave, kamehameha, the kikoho, solar flare, spirit ball, the ability to fly, etc. almost all of these moves let earthlings hit WAY above their weight or give them a distinct advantage in battle, like the solar flare. krillin was able to damage and scare freeza with the destructo disk. tien was able to hold off cell with the kikoho. yamcha’s spirit ball showed how well tuned his control over manipulating ki was. not only that but humans being able to develop the ability to fly makes perfect sense since they are so creative in their use of ki. i wish that this was something that was kept up with instead of nearly all these moves and earthlings in general fading into the background because the only thing that matters is being a super saiyan.

namekians are interesting because their abilities are mostly magical. outside of piccolo, it seemed like most namekians had very basic ki attacks BUT they had all sorts of cool magic abilities and abilities very specific to their biology. the clothes beam, being able to heal people, unlocking someones potential...most of these are support like abilities but also VERY useful. the battle techniques include stuff like being able to stretch limbs, growing to giant sizes and fusion. i think it would be cool if namekians had a sort of complete telepathy with each other because they are so peaceful and in tune with each other.

the one exception to this is piccolo who...grew up on earth! he has those namekian abilities PLUS earthling specific things he learned; special beam cannon, hellzone grenade, light grenade...all moves that just like earthlings, let him punch way above his weight OR are an incredibly creative use of ki.

of course there are also other alien races in dragon ball with special abilities, but none of them are that expounded on. the yardrats and their extremely useful utility moves, ginyu’s body change ability, whatever the hell is going on with freeza and his peeps, etc.

i just wish we got more of this and more separation between what each group could do which could lead to more cool cross learning and lore instead of what it is now which is just “my ability is to make my power level higher AND ALSO shoot an even bigger beam”

[dbfacets]

Facets: Chapter Eight

Summary: Ive’s training continues, this time bringing him face-to-face with some new evils.  Will he be strong enough to defeat them on his own?  Or, will he have to dig deep inside himself to unlock a strange new power...?

Author Notes: i think the rest of these chapters are actually all my favorites lol. new characters! old characters get development! we love to see it. anyway enjoy chapter 8!

--

Shot shows IVE walking through a hallway in MOJA’s castle.  There are windows looking out into the courtyard.  As he walks by, he notices MOJA and ROWHEA standing outside, and he peeks out curiously.  MOJA notices him back there.

MOJA Ah, Ive!  Come here for a sec.

IVE shyly shuffles out to meet them.

MOJA Ive, I’d like you to meet Rowhea.  He’s a saiyan just like you, though he’s still mortal.

IVE …  H…  Hi--

ROWHEA grabs IVE’s hand and shakes it firmly with a big smile.

ROWHEA Nice to meetcha!

IVE U-uh…!  You, too…!

ROWHEA lets go of his hand and places his hands on his hips.  MOJA looks over at him.

MOJA Rowhea here has been doing quite a lot of work out there to get strong.  I heard from Enlil that he’s even been sparring with gods--none of which are on my level, of course, but still.  The fact that he’d be willing to do something like that caught my interest, so I decided to bring him here to train him myself.

IVE looks interested.

IVE Are you gonna train him to be a Destroyer, too?

MOJA What?  No, of course not.  I already got you, don’t I?  I’m just training him to help him achieve the highest level he possibly can.

IVE Oh…  That seems weird that you’d go out of your way to do that, though, Lord Moja.

MOJA I just wanna see how far I can push him, honestly.  I think it’ll be fun to test the limits of a saiyan that isn’t immortal.

ROWHEA looks pumped.

ROWHEA I’m crazy excited to get stronger!  Lord Moja said you were the strongest saiyan out there right now, which is where I wanna be.  Would you mind sparring with me so I can see where my goal should be?  Please?

IVE looks a little flustered.

IVE Um…!  Sure, if it’s okay with Lord Moja…

MOJA Go ahead.  Don’t kill him, though; that’d ruin the fun.

IVE swallows nervously now that that thought’s been put into his head.

Shot cuts to the two of them standing across from each other in an open area, where IVE and POLI had trained before.

ROWHEA Okay, I want you to power up to your fullest!

IVE Okay.

IVE activates Super Saiyan Albedo, which makes ROWHEA step back a little.

ROWHEA Whoa…!  I’ve never even seen that form before!  I can’t measure its power, either!  What do you call it?

IVE Super Saiyan Albedo.  It’s the highest level a saiyan can achieve, and you have to be immortal to do it.  Um…  Sorry to break that to you.

ROWHEA Immortal, huh…?  I bet it’s because of the strain it takes on the body.  That’s no problem!  I’ll just find a mortal equivalent.

IVE A mortal equivalent?  You think there is one?

ROWHEA There’s gotta be, right?  If there isn’t, then I’ll make one!  Anyway, now I want you to hit me with all your strength, okay?  Just one good hit, so I can measure your strength.

IVE All my strength?  That’ll kill you for sure…

ROWHEA Okay, then hit me with a power level that won’t kill me instantly!  I’m okay with being incapacitated for a little bit.

IVE …  You’re...kinda weird.  But, um, I guess I could do that.

IVE then teleports behind ROWHEA and just flicks his back.  This sends him flying with such great force he crashes through a few pillar things while MOJA and POLI watch from the sidelines.  MOJA snorts amusedly while POLI just watches.

POLI You seem to have a soft spot for saiyans, Lord Moja.

MOJA Whatever.  I just think they have a lot of potential as a species.  That’s all.

Shot shows ROWHEA buried in dirt from where he skidded to a stop.  IVE flies over to him, looking worried and powered down.

IVE Oh, gosh, I’m sorry…!  Was that too hard?  Are you okay?

ROWHEA pushes himself up onto his elbows and shakes the dirt from his head.  He has a bloodied nose and some bruises, but otherwise he looks fine.  He looks back at IVE with a smile.

ROWHEA That was insane!!  And you’re tellin’ me that wasn’t even your full power?  Dude, you’re amazing!  Let’s go again!

IVE blushes a little but he gives a small smile of embarrassment.

Cut to six years later.  IVE and ROWHEA are sparring again, this time both in base form.  They both seem to be holding their own and enjoying themselves.  MOJA calls out to them from the sidelines.

MOJA Alright, that’s enough playing around.  Both of you power up to your fullest!

IVE and ROWHEA Right!

They both hop back from each other, and it starts by showing IVE powering up to Super Saiyan Albedo.  Then, it cuts to ROWHEA powering up, but it dramatically shows him powering up to Super Saiyan Prisma.  Once that’s done, they both shoot up into the sky and start going at it again.  MOJA looks pleased from the ground.  They fight for a little while until ROWHEA stops and sort of locks up from pain, suddenly powering down.  IVE stops and powers down as well, looking concerned as he flies over to him.

IVE Rowhea…!  Are you okay?

ROWHEA Y-yeah…  I’m good.  I think I went a little too long again, is all.

IVE You know you can only withstand Prisma for a little while…  You should be careful.

ROWHEA smiles at him.

ROWHEA I think I’m getting better, though.  I know I went for longer than usual this time!

IVE smiles, but he’s soon called down by MOJA.

MOJA Ive!  Come here; something’s come up.

IVE and ROWHEA float down to MOJA and POLI.

IVE What is it?

MOJA There’s been some disturbances across the universe, all caused by a certain individual.  Her name’s Kisei.  She’s a demon that likes to stir up trouble in the mortal realm with her magic.  She’s also a sort of scientist, I guess, so she’s also smart.  You haven’t had any contact with demons yet outside of Taoreta, so I want you to go take care of it.

IVE D-demons?  How do you want me to take care of it, exactly?

MOJA I’m sure you’ll figure it out.  Poli will teleport you to her current location.  It’s on some deserted planet, for some reason.  She must be hiding out.

IVE Right.  Okay, I can do it.

MOJA I know you can.

POLI lifts her staff and IVE is teleported to the deserted planet that I decided was full of just rocks and stuff because I don’t want to draw a lot of detailed backgrounds the whole time.  IVE is in an underground cavern, anyway, so whatever.  He walks around cautiously, observing his surroundings.

IVE (thinking) I wonder what a demon’s energy feels like…?  I assume it’s pretty nasty…

Suddenly, he stops.

IVE (thinking) Wait, I feel something.  It’s really dark…  It must be her.

He gets into a battle stance, but then he looks confused.

IVE (thinking) Hold on…  There’s more than one…?

Suddenly, a light glimmers from the darkness, and a beam of dark energy shoots out at him.  He easily dodges with a flip and lands elsewhere.  CROISS and GUETTA begin emerging from the shadows with wicked grins on their faces.

CROISS Looks like we got a quick one, Sis.

GUETTA Are we actually gonna have some fun this time?

IVE gets ready again.

IVE (thinking) Those two...look like saiyans.  Where’s the demon?

Suddenly, he sees KISEI coming out from behind the two artificial saiyans, and she’s smiling softly.

IVE Are you Kisei?

KISEI I’m flattered you know of me.

IVE The God of Destruction told me about you.  He said you’ve been causing trouble, and he sent me to stop you.

KISEI Is that right?  Lord Moja wants to ruin the party, I see…  It’s funny that he’d send a little saiyan like you to do his dirty work, though.  What’s so special about you, then?

IVE I’m training under him to be the next God of Destruction!

KISEI Interesting…  You must be powerful, then.  This is the perfect opportunity to test my creations’ powers.  Croiss, Guetta…  After him.

CROISS and GUETTA grin evilly.

CROISS and GUETTA With pleasure!

The two of them launch at IVE, and the fight begins.  They throw punches and kicks, but IVE dodges them all with cool acrobatics, as he usually does.  The twins see that they’re not making any headway with this, so they back off and look at each other.

CROISS I think we should do it.

GUETTA Ditto.

IVE looks confused for a moment, but he’s soon surprised when the two of them power up to Super Saiyan Diamond.

KISEI This...is Super Saiyan Diamond.  It’s a transformation that only these two can achieve due to their artificial DNA.  Its strength surpasses that of what you know as Super Saiyan Blue.  They’ve been itching to test it out on a worthy opponent.  Will it be you?

The twins dart forward again, and when IVE tries to dodge, GUETTA suddenly appears behind him and knocks him down.  He bounces back up and tries to right himself, but Croiss swipes at him and knocks him away again.  He growls, deciding now is a good time to use Albedo, which he does.  The twins and KISEI look intrigued, but none of them are super fazed by it.  If anything, the twins are excited.

KISEI So, this is Albedo…  It’s much more amazing in person.  I wonder how it will hold up against my twins, though?

CROISS and GUETTA start attacking again, now using team attacks that are in sync.  IVE does his best to defend and is able to dodge better, but they still end up taking him from his blind spots here and there and eventually knock him away.  He stops to think for a split second.

IVE (thinking) They’re so powerful…!  And when they work together, they’re really hard to predict and counter…  But, Kisei called them her creations.  That means they’re just artificial, right?  They must have been created to cause chaos.  I’m probably supposed to just take them out for good so they won’t be able to hurt anyone…

CROISS and GUETTA grin evilly before GUETTA darts forward on her own to strike again.  IVE is ready, and he charges up an energy blast.  GUETTA keeps coming.  He fires the blast at her, seemingly catching her whole and obliterating her.  CROISS and KISEI are standing back with smirks on their lips.  When the smoke clears, GUETTA can be seen standing completely unscathed.  IVE is super scared by this.

KISEI Forgive me, I seem to have forgotten to explain something about my dear Croiss and Guetta…  I’ve made them so that they’re invulnerable to damage.  There’s no way you can harm them.  You’re immortal, aren’t you?  Surely you’ll be able to last long enough to satisfy them.

CROISS leaps up over GUETTA as if to pounce on IVE, but IVE dodges before he can land a punch that shatters the rocky ground.  IVE looks panicked, but he’s not given time to think this time because GUETTA is right behind him and knocks him into a wall.  He rolls over and sits up with his back against the wall.  He powers down when he sees that it’s not doing him any good.

IVE (thinking) How am I supposed to beat them if they’re invulnerable…?!  This is just like Taoreta all over again--I won’t be able to beat them on my own!

CROISS and GUETTA are closing in.

IVE (thinking) Unless I…

CROISS steps forward with a little laugh.

CROISS C’mon, short stuff, don’t you got more than that for us?  We thought an immortal saiyan would be a lot more fun than this!

IVE hesitantly and shakily holds up a hand towards him.  CROISS smirks and stands up straight.

CROISS Go ahead, try it.  See what good it does you.

IVE …  H…

KISEI’s expression suddenly drops.

IVE …  Hakai!!

CROISS is no longer smiling.  He suddenly screams as he’s utterly destroyed, dissolving into nothing.  GUETTA and KISEI look devastated in the background while IVE is just happy that even worked.

KISEI Y-you…!  How could you?!

GUETTA growls and launches at him.

GUETTA You’re gonna pay for doing that to my brother!!

IVE stands up and holds his hand out again, more confident this time.  When GUETTA gets close, he’s ready.

IVE Hakai!

The same destruction happens to GUETTA.  KISEI looks nervous while IVE stands his ground.

IVE It’s over, Kisei.  It’s just you and me, now.  You can either accept defeat and go home, or I can take care of you, too.

KISEI Tch…!  I will not accept defeat so easily!  I have one more surprise for you…

She raises her staff and begins to summon VIENNO, who rises up from the ground through a portal she created.

KISEI Vienno!!

VIENNO opens their eyes and looks down at IVE.

KISEI Pummel this pest until he learns not to interfere with us anymore!

VIENNO glances back at KISEI before huffing and beginning to walk towards IVE.  IVE stands his ground.

IVE (thinking) I don’t sense the same evil energy coming from this one…  But, if they’re taking orders from her, then I guess I have no choice.

When VIENNO comes close enough, he holds out his hand to try and destroy them like the others.

IVE Hakai!

Nothing happens.  VIENNO looks down at him silently while his expression drops.

IVE …  Wh…?

IVE starts to back up.

IVE Why…  Why didn’t it work?

KISEI is grinning wickedly.

KISEI Haha…  Vienno is different from the other two.  Can you guess why your little attack won’t work on them?

VIENNO grabs IVE by his head--their hand covers his whole face basically--and suddenly slams him into the cavern wall, creating a huge hole.  They then fling him back behind them, and he flops and rolls along the ground because he’s discombobulated.  KISEI looks pleased.

KISEI They’re immortal, just like you.  Isn’t it amazing?  I’ve created an immortal saiyan.  It’s a shame I wasn’t the first, but this will do.

VIENNO starts walking towards IVE again.  He gets up and powers up again.

KISEI Oh, that won’t do you much good, either.  I’ve given Vienno a special feature on top of the immortality.  You see...they have the ability to copy any saiyan form they see.  I’ve been observing various fights and showing them to them so that they could acquire these abilities for themselves.  Vienno, show him Super Saiyan.

VIENNO stops and does as they’re told, powering up to Super Saiyan.  They then launch at IVE and they fight again.

KISEI Now, four.

VIENNO suddenly turns Super Saiyan 4, and they start landing harder attacks on IVE.  KISEI grins. KISEI Blue.

VIENNO ascends to Super Saiyan Blue before kicking IVE and knocking him away.

KISEI You see?  They were able to ascend to the level of a god just from observation.  Isn’t that incredible?

IVE No!  They’re just a copycat, that’s all!

KISEI Oh, believe me--they may have copied the forms, but they are true transformations, through and through.  Why don’t I prove it to you?  Surely by now you’ve realized the full potential of this power…

Something clicks in IVE’s mind before KISEI speaks.

KISEI Vienno…  Albedo.

IVE looks frightened at the verbal confirmation.  Vienno clenches their fists before powering up all the way to Super Saiyan Albedo, just like IVE.  They are so gorgeous.

IVE But...I thought…!

KISEI You thought you were the only one who could achieve this form?  How selfish.  I told you they were immortal, did I not?  It would only make sense that they could achieve this form, after seeing you.  Now, the question is...which of you is stronger?

VIENNO launches at IVE again, and the two start attacking each other.  IVE is defensive at first, but he tries some offense as well.  VIENNO dodges in the same manner as IVE does.  The two go back and forth for a minute before VIENNO seems to catch their stride and starts pushing IVE back.  Eventually, IVE loses his concentration and starts getting punched back and forth, and then he’s blasted back, skidding back to the wall.  He seems very winded, and he collapses to his knees, powering down.

IVE (thinking) I can’t...keep this up…!  We’re using the same form, but theirs is more powerful than mine…  I’m immortal, but I don’t have limitless stamina and energy…!  They’re just going to keep beating me until…

VIENNO steps closer while KISEI smiles with satisfaction in the background.

IVE (thinking) ...until…

IVE clenches his fists.

IVE (thinking) No, I…  I have to…!

The ground beneath IVE starts to crack, and the cavern rumbles.  KISEI and VIENNO stop and look around in confusion.  Suddenly, a huge flash of bright light fills the room surrounding IVE.

KISEI What…?!

When the light dissipates, IVE is left standing up.  When he opens his eyes, they’re silver, revealing that he’s achieved imperfect Ultra Instinct.  KISEI looks nervous, but keeps it together.

KISEI What form is this…?  It doesn’t matter.  Vienno, attack!

VIENNO darts forward to strike, but IVE easily steps out of the way.  VIENNO swipes around for another attack, but IVE gracefully flips to dodge it, too.  KISEI growls.

KISEI Vienno, enough fooling around!  Copy his form!

VIENNO does as they’re told and tries to copy it, but they seem to be struggling.  They sort of hunch over, as if they’re suddenly in pain.  KISEI frowns.

KISEI They should be able to copy it!  Unless...it’s too much for their artificial DNA to handle.  Curses!  What is this form?!

IVE stands up and looks at VIENNO while they’re distracted.  He quickly throws a single punch, and he sends VIENNO crashing through the wall into another cavern, this one filled with an underground lake.  They land on the side of it where there’s a rocky floor, crashing into the ground.  As they shakily get up, IVE darts forward and seems to miss them, landing a ways behind them.  However, it’s soon clear that he struck them as he passed, because they’re suddenly hit with a flurry of hard blows.  This totally kicks the shit out of them, and they power down to base form before collapsing to the ground, unconscious finally.  As IVE stands up straight, he looks over at them.  KISEI can be seen watching in horror from the hole they came through.  When she sees that VIENNO was defeated, she backs up angrily.

KISEI Tch…!  Useless, just like the others…!  Fine.  If this is all you can do, you can stay here to rot.  I’ll just create something better.

With that, she disappears in a puff of smoke.  IVE is watching VIENNO still, but he seems to suddenly run out of energy.  He loses the Ultra Instinct and goes wobbly before collapsing against the wall and also falling unconscious.

Cut to a while later.  IVE is starting to wake up.  When he opens his eyes, ERA is floating in front of him with a happy smile on his face.  IVE blinks in confusion.

ERA Hi there.

IVE jolts fully awake, sitting up with a startle.  ERA backs up a little, still smiling and floating in the air.

ERA Whoa there, buddy!  No need to freak out.  I was just makin’ sure you’re alright.  You got pretty beat up there.

IVE W-who are you…?

ERA Me?  I’m Era.  Nice to meetcha!

IVE How did you…?  What are you doing here?

ERA Well, I’ve been kinda watching Mom’s activities just to see where they went ‘cause I heard she’s been doing some pretty wild stuff lately, and when I saw all that go down just now, I figured I should pop in for a minute to get a closer look!  I guess I came in kinda late, though.

IVE Mom…?  You mean Kisei?  She’s your mom?

IVE starts to tense up, but ERA waves his hand.

ERA Chill out!  Sure, she’s my mom, but I’m not really affiliated with her.  I was just interested in seeing what she came up with this time.  I’m interested in her science projects is all, since that’s kinda what I do, too, y’know?  Speaking of which…

He turns to VIENNO.

ERA I actually came to pick this fella up.  I guess Mom decided she didn’t want them anymore, so I figured it was a good opportunity to take them for myself!

IVE Take them?  Where?  For what?

ERA Back to my place, of course!  As for what for, um…  I’m not really sure.  It won’t be anything you’ll have to worry about, though; I promise.  I’m not like that.  It seemed to me like they weren’t like the other two artificial saiyans in that they weren’t programmed to be evil; they only did what Mom told them to do because that’s all they knew.  I’m sure I can find a better use for them than she did.

IVE looks wary.

IVE Are…  Are you sure you won’t make them do anything bad?  How can I trust you if you’re a demon?

ERA I promise I won’t do anything bad.  I’m just not interested!  Plus, sure, I’m a demon, but you can’t really expect all of us to be like Mom, can you?  That’d be pretty boring.

IVE considers.  Before he’s given a chance to answer, ERA starts to pick VIENNO up over his shoulders.

ERA Welp, anyway, I’m outtie.  Maybe I’ll see you around later; you seem like a cool guy.  Good luck with that destruction stuff or whatever!

He opens a portal, and he then disappears through it with VIENNO in tow.  IVE is left there, a bit confused as to what just happened.

Cut to IVE teleporting back to MOJA and POLI later.

POLI Welcome back!

IVE smiles at her, but he notices MOJA looks disgruntled.

IVE Lord Moja…?  What’s wrong?

MOJA sighs.

MOJA Ive…  Do you know what you did back there?  That transformation you used?

IVE Uh…  No, I don’t.  It just happened suddenly.  Why?  Was it bad?

POLI Not necessarily.  What you achieved was an imperfected form of Autonomous Ultra Instinct, a state that’s hard to achieve even for us deities.  We were both very impressed to see you use it.

MOJA Yeah, impressed is one word for it.  I hadn’t expected you to learn something like that for a long time, but I guess now that it’s been tapped into...I should probably start teaching you how to use it.

POLI Or, I will, since you haven’t perfected it yet, yourself.

MOJA Well…!  I just haven’t felt like it, okay?

POLI Of course, Lord Moja.

IVE shuffles around.

IVE That’s great, Lord Moja, but, um...there’s something I want to do before we start any of that.

MOJA Yeah?  What is it?

IVE Is there any way I can borrow the Super Dragon Balls for something?  It’s really important.

MOJA and POLI look at each other in surprise.

MOJA …  I guess I can trust that you won’t do anything stupid with them.  You’re not like that.  But I’m only allowing this as a reward for achieving Ultra Instinct today, got it?  No more of these free wishes.

IVE Got it.  Thank you, Lord Moja!

Cut to POLI and IVE in front of the Super Dragon Balls.

POLI Alright, Ive.  What is your wish?

IVE looks up at the dragon balls.

Shot cuts to a black scene, which turns into someone opening their eyes.  Shot changes to show TAORETA’s eyes, and it then zooms out to show his surprised face.  He’s no longer a demon; he’s a kai again.  He looks down at his hands in confusion, then looks around.  Before he can process what’s happening, IVE teleports in behind him, and he turns around quickly to look at him.

TAORETA …  You…?  What…  How did I…?

IVE You were erased, but I wished you back to life.  I also specified that you’d come back as a kai, like you used to be.

TAORETA looks utterly confused.

TAORETA Why would you do that…?  I killed the gods!  I tried to kill you!  What reasoning do you have behind this?

IVE You acted out because you felt you were wronged, didn’t you?  Your fellow gods wouldn’t listen to you when you wanted to help your universe, and they cast you out instead.  That’s why you were angry, right?

TAORETA looks away angrily.

TAORETA What does it matter?  It’s not as if any of them would change.  Bringing me back was pointless.

IVE walks over and holds out his hand.

IVE Let me show you something, okay?

TAORETA looks up warily at his hand.  Shot cuts to the two of them with POLI teleporting into some place in outer space.

TAORETA …  This is Universe A.  Why did you bring me back here?  Are you trying to punish me for what I did?

IVE Just look for a minute.  You can see all the planets, right?  Look closely at them.

TAORETA huffs and turns to look through space.  He uses his kai vision to zoom in on Planet Sadala, which is bustling with both saiyans and other races (namekians, brench, etc.) helping each other out with building and trading resources.  Shot changes to show TAORETA looking surprised.

TAORETA They’re...helping each other?  Why are they doing this?  Why are they not fighting over the resources?

IVE Because they don’t need to.  Everyone has the resources they need, now; they’re all sharing and helping each other out instead.

TAORETA …  But...why would Zerac allow this?

IVE I guess he just needed a little push to help him realize he was wrong.

TAORETA looks thoughtful in a confused way for a moment.

IVE Do you want to see for yourself?

TAORETA looks warily at him.  Shot cuts to ZERAC and YARHI hanging out in the World of the Kais before it changes to show TAORETA’s boots teleporting in.  YARHI and ZERAC look surprised when they notice the three of them standing there.  TAORETA looks nervous and a bit skeptical while IVE is just smiling warmly.

ZERAC Taoreta…?

YARHI doesn’t say anything; he just looks shocked to see TAORETA again like this.  TAORETA frowns at him before looking down.

TAORETA …  Yarhi...I…

YARHI steps forward before starting to run.  TAORETA tenses up, but YARHI just rams into him with a hug, starting to sob.

YARHI I’m so sorry, Taoreta…!  I’m sorry for not saying anything back then…  I should have spoken up, but I…!

TAORETA frowns, but he ends up holding YARHI.  YARHI looks up at him with tears in his eyes.

TAORETA …  I know you were afraid.  You just wanted to keep the peace.

YARHI I--I should have stood up for myself.  I should have stood up for you.  You didn’t deserve what happened to you.

TAORETA looks away.

TAORETA It was...a long time ago.  There’s no use fretting over it anymore.

He notices ZERAC step forward.

TAORETA …  Zerac.

ZERAC Taoreta, I…  I’m sorry.  It was a mistake to cast you out like I did.  I was foolish, and...I was wrong.  I should have listened to you.

TAORETA doesn’t say anything, but the look he gives is one of acceptance.  YARHI steps back from him.

YARHI Are…  Are you back for good?

TAORETA If what this saiyan has shown me is true, and things truly have changed...I suppose I could be.

YARHI Well…  We haven’t appointed a new East Supreme Kai yet.  If you wanted to...we’d be happy to have you back.

TAORETA seems to consider the offer.

ZERAC I...won’t blame you for declining.  If you wish to leave, you should feel free.

TAORETA looks over at him.

TAORETA …  You’ll offer me my old position, even after all I’ve done?

ZERAC Yes.  From what we understand, you’ve already paid the price.  Now, you have an opportunity to move on and help better the universe like you wanted.

POLI chimes in.

POLI This opportunity won’t come again.  Choose wisely.

TAORETA glances back at her thoughtfully.  He finally sighs.

TAORETA …  If you’re sure…  I’ll stay.

YARHI looks very happy about this.  IVE smiles, too.  Chapter ends with a shot of them all standing in the grass.

[goddamnwebcomics]

5 Rejected Story Arcs from Webcomics

Webcomics are often made by amateurs. Changing artstyles, extremely blatant mouthpiece characters, insertions of creator’s overly specific fetishes and so forth. Of course, these are also present in “professional” media, but not to such big extent. And another thing featured in professional media are story arcs that are set up but don’t seem to go anywhere. 

Webcomics are often made with no clear mapped out plan ahead, which is why these elements tend to pop up a lot. Here’s five examples of story arcs, plotlines and even aspects of universe that just vanished off the face of the Earth as soon as they were mentioned.

Now, I am not going to include webcomics that abruptly ended like Warmage or webcomics that mostly are about random events like Carnivores. With that said, let’s dive in to this forgotten feast.

5. Chel’s ex-boyfriend

This one is just weird. When Chel and Lexx are hanging out in a rooftop, suddenly they’re attacked by two feds, one of them being Chel’s ex-boyfriend Dirk. However, they’re forgotten and never mentioned again after the NEXT PAGE. There is no transistion, Lexx and Chel are still hanging out in the rooftop, and then leave on their own accord. This is so goddamn weird. It’s almost like Tiffany uploaded a page she wasn’t supposed to upload. Was this an april fools joke? Or did Tiffany genuinely think “fuck this” and just continued like this page never happened? I don’t blame her, since Chel having an ex who works for FBI is such a bullshit out of nowhere twist. Keith was introduced a lot more naturally.

4. Penelope the Pain

Dominic Deegan’s school escapades are already such a huge mess, it’s no surprise Mookie introduced an element of the story that never was elaborated on. Penelope the Pain was a petitionmaking teacher who wanted Miranda Deegan to resign, because she couldn’t be present when Infernomancer attacked the school among other reasons. After arguing with Deegan for a while she sends rest of the school retard mob after them. Although she is brought up by Deegan’s dad later on, she and her anti-Miranda opinions never show up again although Miranda’s role and eventual retirement as the school headmistress become important plot point. It is probably for the better as these weird strawman characters who smear our heroes reputation just for the sake of smearing their reputations never went away, so Penelope wouldn’t have contributed much besides made the school arcs even more annoying.

3. Sarah’s Mystery Stalkers

We all know how much Las Lindas loves to avoid actual conflict, so of course a story which has a shitton of conflict potential is immediately cancelled. After the end of the Festival Arc, we see this mysterious unseen figure stalking Sarah the cat, indicating that this figure has seen Sarah before. This could have been a source of intrigue and made us invested in Sarah and her backstory. However, these mystery stalkers are never seen or mentioned again. Was SoulKat unable to write a conflict that didn’t involve Mora yelling at everyone? Who knows. Sarah did get more focus after this but only on shitty filler arcs and that time she killed Digit. Just damn you, Soulkat.

2. Tiny Tiger Clone Factory

This one is not from a webcomic riffed in this blog, but I include it here because it’s rather strange one, which is appropriate as it’s from SuperSaiyanCrash’s magnum opus Crash Bandicoot Retold 2. While Goku, cody and Jin are still in the academy of evil, they run into N. Brio, who has resurrected Tiny Tiger somehow. Tiny tells them that he is one of the millions of Tiny clones Brio keeps in his lab and no matter how many times he gets killed he’ll keep coming back. After the three Bandicoots turn saiyan and kick Tiny’s ass, Goku vows to destroy the lab, but this is never followed upon or even addressed. I guess if asked about this SSC will just say “oh they destroyed it off-screen”.

1. Mecha Maid’s Worsening ALS

This one is at the top because it’s so fucking insulting. When Spinnerette was finding it’s legwork, it didn’t take long until the wacky lesbian robot Mecha Maid was established to be a tragic character, who was embarrassed by Heather’s blind idiocy, and her serious and debiliating condition, Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, also known as ALS disease. During the first true serious arc of this comic, Spinnerette has to take Mecha Maid to SUPERHERO HOSPITAL after she’s struck by lightning, where she speaks about her ALS getting worse as seen above. When Heather tries to joke about the situation she gets upset, and then she confesses that she loves Heather. Since then, besides “I CAN HEAR PAIN IN HER LAUGHTER” rest of this arc just becomes Spinny doing stupid shit to impress Mecha Maid yet they remain a couple.

Mecha Maid’s ALS becomes a central focus again during the Adrastea arc where Mecha Maid and Spinny visit a scientist who’s trying to find a cure or a treatment for it. After dealing with Adrastea’s edgy revenge plot, the story ends on a hopeful note where the scientist is willing to try again to find a working treatment. And for the rest of this comic’s days, much like Spinny and Mecha Maid’s relationship, Marilyn’s ALS remains stagnant. And, no. I can forgive rest of the examples in this list, but I can’t forgive this one because anyone who knows what ALS is knows that it’s a PROGRESSIVE CONDITION. It doesn’t help after this Mecha Maid has sex with Heather, falls into a frozen lake, and gets blasted with a noise bomb among other things, and she continues to be fine. Her suit can’t keep her alive forever, as one by one she has to continue working on the suit to improve it as her condition gets worse and worse. But, because Kraw is an idiot, we get no followup on any of this. This is why Coma Theory exists.

[the-firebird69]

Proxima Midnight - All Fight Scenes | The Avengers - Infinity War

This is Frieza and she's from the dragon Ball z series and the whole thing and she survives the battle she can see her on the side of the machine she knew it was coming and got help and from Azog and it's not his name in the series but he is one of the super saiyans and there might be a little bit possessed and they say no and it's true they don't have to be but they are doped and they're big and powerful and he thinks he's related to our son because he found out he can get gigantic with just a little bit of spice in a sense as probably that means he's related to her too so mom is upset because she might be inside a daughter. And there are people laughing because it seems kind of evil and it didn't have that done to her and The Rock explained it a few times and still has to this is going to start up in the fight is in New York City and it is not because the challenge but it's really close to where they were fighting each other it's Trump and Tommy f they were walking around there to try and challenge

The two and it didn't happen

Thor Freya

Olympus

Zeus

And I can do the theme music and you can't

Hera

[duhragonball]

Dragon Ball Super 062

How it started.

How it’s going.

Last time, Trunks got really really really really mad, and transformed into some other variation of Super Saiyan.  So now he’s almost as strong as a Super Saiyan Blue, which doesn’t help, since Goku Black is currently 4-0 against Super Saiyan Blues.

Vegeta tries to jump in, but the Zamasu double-team moves are just impossible for them to cope with. 

And Goku’s down with a nasty case of a big hole through his torso.  Funny how he’s actually selling in this episode when it seemed to just make him stronger in the previous episode.  Fuck this arc so hard.

The best Trunks’ new form seems to be able to do is to hold Black and Zamasu off long enough for the others to retreat in the Time Machine.  Vegeta hates this idea, but he hated the idea of coming here without a plan, and everything that’s happened on this trip has proved him correct.  He shouldn’t see this as a cowardly retreat, but a correction of an earlier blunder. 

So Bulma and Vegeta return home with Goku, and Bulma is furious with Beerus.  She tells him what happened, which isn’t too complicated since it’s basically the exact same thing that happened on the first trip to fight Black.  Nothing has changed.  Beerus destroying Zamasu in the present day didn’t accomplish diddly dick.

Beerus tries to play it cool by acting more bemused than shocked.  He admits he had a feeling it might turn out this way, since Trunks did make a compelling argument for this.  But Bulma’s pissed because he acted so insulted when the others doubted him.  She nearly takes a swing at him, but Vegeta tells her they need to focus on finding a way to help Trunks. 

As for Beerus, once he hears Vegeta’s report of the situation, he takes his leave.  As far as he’s concerned, the situation has been resolved in this reality, which is the only one he’s beholden to.  The Earthlings may do whatever they wish going forward, but his involvement is concluded.  Whis wishes Bulma good luck.  She seems upset to see them go, but it’s not like they were doing that much before, you know? 

I mean, they helped save “our” Gowasu, but that guy sucks so who cares?  They got rid of “our” Zamasu, but that’s the equivalent of Krillin blowing up the embryonic Cell in Gero’s basement, while the adult Cell is running around drinking whole Battlebowl teams.  And they helped uncover the mystery of Goku Black’s identity, but I’m not sure knowing who he is really changes the calculus of this battle.  Besides, he seemed quite happy to explain the whole thing himself. 

Vegeta takes a walk to think this out, and Kid Trunks goes to the one person he can count on for support: Goten.  Hey, yeah, remember Goten?  He’s barely done anything in this whole arc.  And... he still won’t do anything from here on.  I find this annoying, because they put him on that still at the end of the opening credits, which shows all the major players in this saga.

See?  There in the upper right.  Goten.  The implication is that it’s Goku, Mai, and Trunks against Zamasu and Goku Black, with Kid Trunks, Goten, and the Pilaf Gang doing comic relief bullshit.  That’s mostly turned out to be true, except for Goten being involved.  And it’s not like I’m a huge Goten fan or anything, but that still feels like a bait-and-switch. 

Anyway, this leads to Chi-Chi and Gohan coming over to find Goku and Goten, and everyone meets in the yard and this is how Chi-Chi finds out what’s been going on all day.  She started cooking food for Goku while she waited for him to come home, and now she’s got tons of food, which works out, because Goku’s starving after that liver-stabbing defeat he suffered in the future.

I’ll skip the part where they recap the whole Saga for the other characters.  All that matters is that Bulma will have the time machine refueled in twelve hours, but they need a strategy to beat those dickholes.  Piccolo has an idea: The Evil Containment Wave, also known as the Mafuba.  

Just in case you’re new to this: The Mafuba was Plan A for defeating King Piccolo in his saga during Dragon Ball.  Roshi’s master, Mutai-Itoh, developed the move when King Piccolo first attacked the world centuries earlier.  Since King Piccolo was too powerful to defeat by force, Mutai-Itoh focused on developing a technique that would contain King Piccolo by sealing him up in a pot, where he could never harm anyone again.  It worked, but Mutai-Itoh died from the intense physical toll of the technique.   When King Piccolo returned, Roshi attempted to use the move again, but he missed.  Tien tried to use it himself, but his jar got damaged before he could make the attempt.  So the world had to settle for Plan B, which was the Goku-Beats-the-Ever-Loving-Fuck-out-of-King-Piccolo Technique.   Plan B was awesome.

The bottom line is that this could be a way to defeat Zamasu despite his invincible body.  Goku just needs someone to show him how to perform the move.  Piccolo offers, since he used it himself to turn the tables on Kami in the 23rd Budokai, but Goku ignores him and teleports to Roshi to learn it from him.  Quite a sick burn on King Piccolo’s son.  Plan B’s a long game.

So while Roshi teaches Goku to practice on Turtle, Vegeta goes to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to train, since he’s clearly not strong enough as he is now. 

Meanwhile, Beerus returns... to Gowasu’s home in Universe 10?  Seems he isn’t finished with this matter after all. Whis confides in Gowasu that Beerus feels responsible for things going poorly, since he was sure he had solved everything by destroying Zamasu in Episode 59.  The trouble is, while Beerus is sure he could easily take out Black and Future Zamasu, they’re in the future of an alternate timeline, so he can’t get to them without violating the rule against time travel.  But Gowasu can, so Beerus tells him the entire story, and Gowasu resolves to take responsibility for this.  Well that’d be a first...

[nimedhel09]

SDBH commentary - episode 31 (SPOILERS AHEAD)

And we're back baby!

Well, not really, I'm still sick, still out of it, but I'm kind of alive, so let's go for a SDBH episode.

As always, it'll be more ranting about stuff and random commentary than anything else.

- I think Fuu's new design is growing on me, lol

- I LOVE SS4 Vegito. I love SS4 period.

- Bluper Saiyan is overrated and needs to die. SS4 SUPREMACY!

- And we're moving!

- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! He's comiiiiing! My evil legendary saiyan husbandooooo!

- Ok, but WTH is this animation? I hate it. Also Broly's face is weird. It's not its beautiful self. It looks all round and weird and stuff. Even his body is kind of weird? Like there's something off with they way they drew his muscle?

- OMG! SS4 Broly. I LIVE and I LOVE. (I'm a Broly fangirl, can't you tell?)

- Waiting for him to destroy the heck out of the protagonists and basically everyone present in this weird place. Though I'd be happy to see some BLOOD, thank you.

- I hate this fight.

- Fuu being ignored and going back to his nefarious plans.

- What is happening?

- Ah we see a bit of the baddies: Turles and scientist-guy (I can't be bothered to recall his name) and oh? Poor Cumber being imprisoned in that thing and looking at... Hearts?

- Hearts who, btw, got a glow-up, design-wise. He looks prettier this way, LOL.

Aaaaaand that's the episode?

Like, we barely go a fight. I didn't enjoy Broly destroying the heroes or anything, I'm still confused of what Demigra is doing here (ISN'T HE SUPPOSED TO BE A BADDIE????? SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME), as is nearly always the case in Super and Super-adjacent media (outside of the ToP ark and the DBS Broly film), the fights and most of the animation and just the way the characters are drawn are poopy, power scaling is a MESS, and the plot? How to say this? It's also a big old mess and I don't know why I keep on inflicting this to myself (I know why: SS4, the xeno crew and seeing old baddies make their comebacks, plus Cumber... yes, I'm not even sorry to say that I have a thing for big saiyans - be they evil or not, looking at you DBS Broly - , ok?).

[3d10fire-damage]

i gotta ramble

right now i’m kinda concluding that somehow, imogen going super saiyan here is going to revive her downed party members or otherwise undo the events of this combat

because on one hand, yeah if the players make poor choices or just get unlucky then all is fair, if they die then they die and that’s just how it is, but like i dont think they made bad choices, for the most part? they decided, pretty much as soon as they could, that they needed to run from the encounter. that otohan was too powerful and they should not stay and try to beat her. but then running just didn’t work, because between otohan’s legendary actions and her echoes, she was chasing each one of them down in turn and basically downing them once per round.

and the party didnt even go into the fight hurt or tired, really. they had plenty of spells and HP. so they wasted a bunch of time trying to run, which was futile, and then by the time things got real, they hadn’t dropped her low enough to actually get that close to beating her.

and THEN when laudna reached out to otohan about the moon crown thing, and rolled a really good persuasion, it seemed to convince otohan, but then laudna said something slightly wrong i guess, and otohan went and killed fearne anyway. like that high roll didn’t matter. (also like the fact that she saw imogen’s memories about the device didn’t matter.)

so then i’m like, okay this whole encounter hinged on imogen, from the beginning. fair enough. so otohan spends a big portion of the encounter telling imogen to give in to the storm, and it’s like... ANYONE in that position (unless they were playing an evil character or something) would naturally, instinctively, choose to resist. that’s what imogen has been doing this whole time-- running from the moon shit because it’s scary and possibly evil and she doesn’t want to hurt people. to give in, at this point especially considering otohan has only been hurting the party, would appear to be siding with the enemy. turning on your friends. or like, taking a big risk or sacrifice that might not be worth it. and really i dont think imogen knew what giving in would even mean? she didn’t know otohan’s intentions or what would happen if she gave in.

so obviously she kept fighting it. yeah she was rolling wisdom saves, but there’s always a chance she passes those, so if matt intended for imogen to like, auto-fail them to suit the narrative, he wouldn’t have asked her to make those rolls, or she would’ve had disadvantage on all of them. if you compare this episode to the episode where yasha gets taken over by obann, it feels a lot more... loose. i dont remember if yasha still made a roll to save against obann’s mind control, but either way ashley wasn’t going to be at the table for months. this was a much more winding path to get laura to say the magic words.

and after a while, with actual death occurring twice, it kinda felt like there was only one correct choice? or the bells hells just needed to be going full aggro AND rolling really well AND otohan had to be rolling like shit (did she ever make an attack roll under 20? if she did it wasn’t very often).

because when your choices boil down to: 1) you give in to the storm like the legendary NPC says or 2) you keep fighting a losing battle and watch all your friends die because you won’t comply with the legendary NPC...

you’re not actually forced to choose the former... but you would be really fucking inclined to, right?

but i don’t believe matt would railroad them this hard (certainly not on purpose), and i don’t believe he is the type of DM to punish them for making the “wrong” choice by killing the PCs. so in short lmao i guess i’m assuming (hoping) that somehow this ruidus thing imogen is doing can bring back the dead or rewind time or something because ngl i’m gonna be a bit frustrated if we permanently lose fearne and/or orym because of these shenanigans

[falling-heights]

Ah, okay, that makes sense and I see where you're comin from there. I'm a really big fan of Frieza and how ruthless and outwardly proper even when he's being mocking or condescending. His lipstick is on point too.

While Frost isn't very foreword with his tricks and evil deeds, I feel like he's a younger, more 'naive' Frieza. If King Cold hadn't really been Emperor of Universe 7 (Chilled too), Frieza probably would have had to be similar to Frost's situation for a while. At least before he became strong enough to become who he is today.

Frieza was brought into a universe he already controlled and through his father training him to take his place, him already having control for most of the universe for so long, Frieza could naturally be more showy in his evil actions because there wasn't a prevalent fighting force that could provide a chance of really stopping the deeds. Like in universe 6. Since Frost isn't a prevalent character in the show we don't know all that much about his past or much if he has a family to help him fool his universe.

As such, all we can really go off of is when Frost said there wasn't all that many of their kind. So it's safe to assume (for now at least) that he's used his own heroic charisma and fighting prowles to start his own scheme of starting and profiting off of his own wars. While Frost is definitely not as strong as Frieza or most of universe 7, he never really had to be. There wasn't any looming threats in his universe, and the only thing that's dangerous in the slightest is Hit and none of the saiyans seem to see him as a threat. There was no King Piccolo, no Frieza, no Majin Buu; just a lazy god of destruction and an assassin no one's after. Thus, this left most of Universe 6's main characters without challenges to overcome so they had no real reason to get stronger. Yet.

When comparing the manga and anime versions of Frost, the manga version has him seem eager to please his companions (much like in the anime) but far more inexperienced as he is only in the tournament for a few chapters before Frieza double-crossed him. Anime Frost was intelligent and knew when to retreat as well as to make Frieza prove himself before completely trusting him and getting thrown off. When Roshi and Frost were fighting, after Roshi tried to seal him, he noticed Vegeta was nearby and went in for some revenge. He was smart enough to plan for Roshi to try trapping Mageta in a jar and overtook it to capture Vegeta...with the very same jar he'd almost been in.

Frost is a walmart version of Frieza, but it's the differences that get me to like him a bit more. He doesn't just rely on his strength or a single plan. At times he uses his intelligence and new knowledge on the battlefield to create new plans. He has a charisma like the Great Saiyaman but uses it for evil. Certain smiles from the naive Ice-jin just have cinnabon energy. He is Frieza's counterpart so they're destined to be similar, but when you gloss over the things that make the characters them, it's like saying Caulifla is a walmart version of Goku or Hit is the walmart version of Piccolo.

Overall, Frieza is a hop skip and a jump away from becoming the scariest yandere in which he has complete control and is powerful enough to keep it that way. Forst, on the other hand would be a softer yandere that could be seen as clingy or too cuddly because he could give his s/o the impression that he's harmless and 'only wants the best for them' with his s/o being none the wiser. Simply put: he couldn't afford to be a full on yandere like Frieza because he's homeless, not exceptionally strong as a fighter, and has no control.

There was potential for Frost to be an actual Yang to Frieza's Yin would have been so much better character wise but his personality (or glimpses of it) make up for it a tiny bit.

I'm so sorry this got long, but overall he gives off weasley and cinnabon vibes...Lastly...He doesn't wear lipstick??

Sorry, the size of this ask crushed poor baby's head.

You make a completely fair argument.

Your reasonings arent far off from why i love Turles as much as i do. Its kinda cute we both love walmart version characters, just never say that about Turles to my face, ive been in self-denial for too long now.

There actually isn't anything to argue. You can like who you want, whether i do or not doesnt matter at all, so keep going at it.

And like- yeah no lipstick. Im used to Frieza's plum-ass purple lips, and seeing just a line throws me off every time