#I’m not used to being this fond of canon and yes it’s got flaws

[dinitride-art]

Will really said, “and us?”

And Mike really said, “we’re friends, we’re friends.”

And what Will, the canonically gay character who’s in love with Mike said next was, “we used to be best friends!”

Like Will is concerned about his and Mike’s friendship. And Mike’s spiralling. And then the two of them are like this for the rest of season four.

Love this timeline, guys.

[galadhremmin]

We have derived Caranthir liking the Dwarves (and vice versa) because apparently, Finrod succeeds in every field Caranthir fails, and at this point it's clear this derives from the in-universe writer of the Silm and his own biases. Think about it: "Dark Finwë" , a grumpy, prejudiced lordling, and "Hair Champion", most handsome, noble king, have met with the same people!! Yet the king of the first secret kingdom is everyone's friend, but the prince that trades with them regularly is not... seems sus.

Hence, Caranthir is friends with the Dwarves. (But that is just an interpretation, so you're free to think what you wish, I just have several opinions on in-universe prejudice and the almighty narrative.)

I think that 'we' might actually have been Dawn Felagund years ago. Maybe this reading existed even before that, but I doubt that-- she's been very influential in silm fandom and was long before tumblr was much of a thing. https://dawnfelagund.com/caranthir-the-slandered

I wouldn't say it's 'clear' that what amounts to Caranthir's entire documented personality derives from the bias of the in-universe narrator, though as you can see from Dawn's writing it's a reading you can argue for. There are a number of different approaches you can take to the Silm and its biases anyway. One of the few times when it's absolutely clear the text isn't telling the entire story is when it talks about the Easterlings. I've posted about this before but the recorded names are, uhh.... the ones to betray the elves are unlikely to actually have been named things like 'ugly lord' and 'ugly beard.' 'Dark Finwe' on the other hand is a documented reference to his haircolour being dark like Finwe's own; hardly a negative judgement!

I personally think Caranthir can be exactly as ill-tempered and prejudiced as the Silm paints him without becoming an unsympathetic character. If a writer cannot make a moody, deeply prejudiced man an interesting character that is a failure as a writer; there are after all enough books who manage exactly that. That is not to say choosing not to write him that way is a failure (obviously not), but it's not necessary in order to make a reader feel for him at all.

Just going by the text, I think it actually might make for a more interesting narrative to explore in fic to me. Because he does change his mind about something, and at a very specific moment; when he meets the Haladin. That is much less dramatic if he secretly been as nice and popular as Finrod, and got along with everyone all the time already. He's been raised by Fëanor, who said things like 'No other race shall oust us!' and rallied the Noldor not motivated enough by vengeance for Finwë alone by playing on their deep-seated fear of being replaced by the Secondborn. Very unlikely that had no impact. At best it has made him uninterested in humans in his area (while they're not much of a threat to ruling instead of the elves anyway). The text says they paid them no heed.

And yet! Caranthir sees how brave Haleth and her people are. He 'does her great honour.' He changes his mind and offers them lands. His tragedy to me is not that of a slandered figure, but of this deeply, deeply prejudiced person raised to distrust the motivations of human beings -- who overcomes those beliefs, offers friendship, is rejected! then extends that same trust to the Easterlings anyway... and it's those specific Easterlings, not the ones who ally with his brothers-- who betray them all. And cause the disastrous ending of the Nirnaeth. It's the 'to evil end shall all things turn that they begin well' part of the curse hitting him in the least fair way possible. Someone finally changes for the better, and the outcome is treason and destruction.

That is a very good character arc to me, actually. His aesthetics-based scorn for the Dwarves is reprehensible but strikes me as deeply Elvish, and part of his prejudices. Naugrim is too unflattering a name for them for it not to be common. His temper-- well why can't he have one? Sure there's only one recorded instance -- but that's imo because there are hardly any conversations in the Silm! Anyway I like some people with tempers well enough. Personally I think people are missing out on opiniated grouches.

Obviously the biased anti-Feanorian Pengolodh reading is a nice one, and I have enjoyed a lot of stories written based it. But it's not at all a reading that is necessary for me to read Caranthir as a flawed but sympathetic character. He can have serious faults and still, ultimately, be someone I feel for.

What I was asking though was if I overlooked any canon evidence of Caranthir being particularly, personally fond of the Dwarves; and it seems I did not. Also; there is room for Caranthir growing to like the Dwarves over centuries without an anti-Feanorian bias reading this strong, there is simply no evidence for friendship in the rather barebones narrative (I'm not interested atm because it's wildly overdone to me & I like variety).

That said, in my opinion making Caranthir the hidden, slandered Feanorian Finrod equivalent with a dash of Curufin's Dwarf affection is not as enjoyable as simply working with what little canon character is actually there. Because there is one (and it's not the greedy tax collector of some fanon depictions either imo)

1. To start with, wrt Caranthir as the anti-Finrod, I don't think it works that well. Sure sure dark/light, open/prejudiced, repressed/shouty, but different motivations, different locations, plus they meet very different peoples even if both are Edain-- besides, Caranthir's own older brothers do successfully ally with the Easterlings without betrayal, while Curufin (much more so than Finrod! no Khuzdul for Finrod!) is the Dwarves' Friend(tm). Also, a flawed Finrod already exists. That's just the regular edition. He has his own faults and (very different) tragic arc.

If Finrod never seems to have strong prejudices to overcome, and if he's not confrontational (which... look he's a diplomat. Make of that what you will. Pretty awkward there in Doriath, buddy!) he does have trouble facing his own complicity (he wanted to sail those ships despite the murders) until Sauron beats him to death with it. He leaves Valinor with the idea of ruling but he has to give up the crown. He's ambitious, he seems emotionally repressed, he's.. possibly paying the greater Dwarves to drive the Petty Dwarves out of their ancestral home to build a city? Oops. Depending on the version you go with in that case, of course; there's also ones where he's free of the blame of that one. Not of wanting to sail those ships and being uneasy with the guilt wrt wanting to do so despite their being stolen and murdered for though. No he doesn't kill; but he wants to use the result of it anyway, and to make it worse he is actually half Telerin.

There's also (to be fair, only for sure after the disaster of the Sudden Flame because that's the recorded instance) his guards killing random innocent trespassers to keep his kingdom hidden -- yes, that's right there in Silm, yes he's still King at the time. Beren has to wave that ring. People just seem to miss that he'd be killed without it somehow.

I think it's just too easy to reduce him to the golden perfect opposite of Caranthir. Yes he's described more positively; he's also just mentioned more because unlike Caranthir he rules an actual kingdom, the greatest and richest in Beleriand in fact; and does things that have a lot of very longterm effects, like helping B&L steal a Silmaril. They don't 'meet the same people' anyway -- the Haladin have a different culture from the Beorians which contributes to their reaction to Caranthir (and iirc their later fate).

Sidenote: Dawn's essay attributes the Green Elves helping the Feanorians at Amon Ereb to Caranthir's diplomatic skills; but why not to those of Amras or Amrod? This is the quote; 'Caranthir fled and joined the remnant of his people to the scattered folk of the hunters, Amrod and Amras, and they retreated and passed Ramdal in the south. Upon Amon Ereb they maintained a watch and some strength of war, and they had aid of the Green-elves' -- nothing here indicates it was Caranthir who got them that aid. In fact A&A are the hunters, i.e. more likely to have roamed in various forests where they would have encountered Green Elves, imo.

There's also the very desperate times to consider in which this aid takes place. This is just post Sudden Flame, and even if the Green Elves didn't like Caranthir they probably liked him better than Morgoth. Also, speaking of cosmopolitans, Maedhros allies with, yes, Dwarves (Azaghal), Grey elves, Easterlings (and you might say: Fingolfinians); even part of the remaining people of Dorthonion rally to Himring post sudden flame (that means Edain and Arafinwean followers in Himring, at least for a time), and he manages to be friendly with Felagund despite calling him a badger. ;)

Finrod is not the only other leader to forge diverse alliances, and though B&L ends happily his people mostly do not. Caranthir's not much like Finrod in any way. Not in motivations, temperament, tragic arc. That's fine. No hidden kingdom for a dragon to eat either. Finrod could probably do with being a little less like Finrod sometimes, though he's well-intentioned and likable. Caranthir loves to shout and isn't sneaky. Good for him.

2. Curufin also already exists. His love for Dwarves is one of his defining and redeeming characteristics and boy does he need them. He's daddy's favourite, a sneaky overambitious bitchy bastard who is also a talented smith and linguist, and truly considered a Dwarf friend, which is apparently exceptional. He's quite flawed; tries to help Celegorm force a political marriage, laughs with a bruised mouth, seeming to lose his mind while attempting and failing murder after first losing his own stronghold and then the city he tried to take from his cousin. He's just... a personality. Mostly a bad one! You can feel for him though, because he seems like an utter mess. Many 'i would love to study you' feelings on my part. Would hate for him to be real but also I'd pay to be his therapist.

3. And then finally there's Canon Caranthir. A difficult, prejudiced person who despite that (which doesn't at all have to mean there is no despite, the despite is what makes it juicy)

- seems to be responsible for re-establishing (large scale?) trade with the Dwarves, whatever he might think of them (and they of him) to their mutual benefit. I don't think he's greedy either. It seems like a mutually profitable situation. Access to Dwarvish goods seems pretty vital to Beleriand, and facilitating trade is a real service.

As someone pointed out in the replies, the Silm does mention Dwarvish companies travelling east to Nan Elmoth and menegroth various times, but quote wrt Caranthir says 'Caranthir’s people came upon the Dwarves, who after the onslaught of Morgoth and the coming of the Noldor had ceased their traffic into Beleriand' and 'when the Dwarves began again to journey into Beleriand.'

They stopped at some point and Caranthir's people made it happen again.

- which means he's practical. He seems like he's good at organising, and setting his own feelings aside if necessary despite his prejudice and temper (which is an achievement it wouldn't be without his, hm, everything). Also he and his people as well as the Dwarves work together well because ''either people loved skill and were eager to learn,' despite their (initial?) mutual dislike. Those aren't bad characteristics; seems like it was an exchange of skill as well as goods and possibly providing safe travel opportunities.

I don't like the 'greedy Caranthir' fanon and don't think it is even that easy support entirely with canon. 'They had of it great profit,' the text says-- both Caranthir and the Dwarves. They exchanged skills and knowledge and Caranthir seems to have helped them start trading in Beleriand again. That's hardly Scrooge Mcduck.

- Another thing we can say about canonthir (lol) is that he apparently attaches a lot of value to aesthetics (was he a visual artist? is a he a sculptor like Nerdanel? WORSE: AN ART CRITIC?! Feanorian art critic is truly nightmare fuel) and that's why he dislikes Dwarves (of all things...). Either way points to 'aesthetics' as something apparently important to Caranthir. Which makes sense given who his parents are. What is interesting to me is that this apparently DOESN'T matter to Curufin, who is a lot like Feanor in most things. That's interesting!

I've never, never seen this but I think it would be very funny to attribute his aesthetic prejudices to Nerdanel. I love her; but why should her opinions be perfect? I know she wasn't considered beautiful herself, but she's an artist. She's got to have had some strong opinions on aesthetics anyway. I doubt it's the beards; Mahtan had one as well. And 'stunted'...at least some of this comes down to the Elvish obsession with height yet again. Hm.

- eventually Caranthir overcomes what have to be some very deeply held beliefs about human beings and their place in the world, and offers what for all intents and purposes looks like real friendship, not the ruling over Men Feanor seems to have had in mind at best. He's capable of real change!

Anyway his character works just fine to me from canon, and what he achieves and the ways in which he fails are more interesting that way rather-- neither slandered Feanorian Finrod 2.0 nor Curufin 'Dwarf Fan' Feanorion without the sneakiness and murder attempts pack the same punch as a stupidly prejudiced grouchy man doing his best anyway for centuries in this stupid ugly cursed land, eventually changing for the better, opening up-- and being brutally punished for it by the Doom.

Dammit. I hope there's therapy in the Everlasting Darkness.

hm a bit long but that's what I get for trying to gather my thoughts wrt why after considering it a bit transferring Curufin's love for Dwarves to Caranthir is a bit boring to me personally. Though there are still stories that still do it very well.

[crystal-moon-101]

Managed to do another redesign with rewrite notes, this time my second favourite character in Ben 10, Azmuth The First Thinker. And just like Ben, he's canon self is such a mess that I wish to fix in my own way. The other Galvans in this picture are his family, with his father from the movie "Destroy All Aliens", his nephews mentioned by DJW, and their mother who is Azmuth's twin sister. So let me get into the notes and rewrite ideas of mine!

-Retaliator-

Yes, I am aware that this is most likely not his name, but I could not be bothered to make up my own at this point, and I also find it funny to have a Galvan dad called this, so I'm sticking with it. So Retaliator is the father of both Azmuth and Divi, a very humble and calm old galvan, who has seen a lot through his years, now retired and mostly just trying to keep the family together through small things.

Retaliator has the rare gene of having aqua/turquoise eyes, a recessive trait in galvans, similar to human with the red hair gene.

Retaliator looks younger than he should be, and that's because he is, in a way. You see, right before Azmuth vanished to start working on the watch, Retaliator fell ill to an disease with no known cure, and this caused the family to...kind of break down. A lot had happen up to this point (Things that will be noted throughout this), and none of them wanted things to end like this. So Azmuth did something he know he shouldn't have, as such a thing takes so much time and resource, and generally frowned upon, and ended up creating a new young clone body for his father's brains to be transferred too. By the time Retaliator woke up from surgery, his son was already gone, off in hiding. It this was event that really made Retaliator realize he may not have been the best father for a long time...

While he is retired now, Retaliator use to do work based around energy stuff.

Since he's family's back together, he likes to host game or movie nights, or even little dinners and get togethers.

He adores his grandsons, and loves to share stories from his past to them, and he's one of the few people they calm down around.

He will admit that he did...go a bit wild when he thought Azmuth died, fighting Ben in the Galvanic Mechamorph suit, but him and Ben have since made up, and the old galvan likes talking to the young lad often.

He has most defiantly embarrassed both of his kids by showing off baby photos of them.

He met his wife through work, like most galvans, with her being a much higher up worker. Surprisingly, despite their statuses, it was his wife who asked him out first, having found him very charming.

Retaliator can never thank Ben enough for convincing his son to come home, and despite their bickering, he enjoys seeing Azmuth's bond with Ben, as the two have a way of balancing each other out.

While he may be in a younger body, his mind is certainly still that of an old galvan, and can often act like his body is older than it really is due to the mental age of his brain.

-Azmuth-

Ahhhh, dear old Azmuth, how I love your character concept, and yet get so frustrated with your actual canon self...There is a lot I have changed in terms of his placement and behavior on the show, and while I can't note all of them down there, the major theme behind them is that he is not a complete jerk in them. Don't get me wrong, Azmuth would still have flaws and issues with his off-standing nature, but he would act in a way that feels more natural, showing his growth and change while mentoring Ben. He genuinely wants to help and is a good person, it's just...he still has a lot to work through. In terms of his slight redesign, I'll like to mention that if you look closely, his outfit is a mixture of his first original outside, crossed with his UAF outfit.

I did mention that I couldn't note all changes of him in series plots, since most boil down to be him being nicer and more realistic, but I will note one change because it's big enough to mention. For the Diagon/Forever Knight Arc, Azmuth did not create Ascalon, because I while I get he's smart and created things like the Omnitrix, I don't think he should be such a big source of dangerous artifacts in the series so often, especially ones that cause trouble. So instead, Ascalon was a weapon crafted in Ledgerdomain, to help fight Diagon who orientated there, and at the time had been trying to conquer earth, and Zenith leaving Azmuth happened because of miscommunication and issues between them instead.

That being said, Azmuth does get involved in the Ultimate Alien Diagon arc when Ben himself calls Azmuth over, needing his help knowing he can better understand Ascalon, and eventually entrusted Azmuth and the Galvans to keep it and the trapped Diagon safe.

Azmuth and his sister had a very rebellious phase as teenagers/young adults, this being the age that Azmuth said he was a lot like Ben, though admittedly, Azmuth was slightly more of an ass than Ben ever was. They were going through a tough time, and Azmuth reacted negatively too it all. Funnily enough, the one thing that seems to make him doo a 180 degrees in personality was his massive swooning crush over Zenith.

He won't ever admit out loud, but he does find Ben's trait of nicknaming his aliens kind of funny...

He shares a mentoring role towards Ben with Grandpa Max and Tetrax, with Max handling the more emotional and human side of Ben's problems, Tetrax handling the physical training and teachings, and Azmuth handling the more logical steps and hard truth Ben needs to hear. He's one of the few people to give Ben the smack of reality he needs from time to time.

That being said, Ben is also one of the few people able to handle Azmuth right back, and give him needed talkings to when the man is losing himself to a bad habit.

Mostly due to the fact that Tennysons seem to have a habit of making people very close to them like family, E.g with Ben seeing Kevin and Rook like brother figures at times, there seems to be subtle hints between Azmuth and Ben that there might be parent and child like moments between them, though both would deny it if brought up.

It doesn't help that Azmuth ends up taking it upon himself on making sure Ben is healthy and happy, based on scans from the Omnitrix he reads daily. Of course, he'll just say he doesn't want the boy he entrusted his watch with to die in a stupid way, but people close to either of them know that Azmuth really does care deep down.

He has said both "I'm too old for this" and "I'm too young for this" many times.

Azmuth has admitted that he's nervous around the Omnitrix, and doesn't like putting it on. He's not good at handling the idea of becoming something he's not...

The Malware arc for Azmuth was...a lot more complicated than canon. Azmuth really did try to fix Malware, but for some reason he couldn't, and it scared him that one, this might be the first problem he can't find a solution too, and second, he just came back from hiding and had been wanting to make changes in his life, so to fail and hurt someone already? He didn't know what to think. It didn't help when Malware started refusing his help and ended up endangering the lives of others, including galvans and Azmuth's own family. And despite it all, Azmuth kept trying over and over again to let him help Malware, but the villain always refused, until Azmuth eventually had to accept that he couldn't do anything. When Malware was finally killed, Azmuth went quiet for a good while, and needed time to recover from his mistake.

Due to some past issues, Azmuth mostly refers to his father by his real name, and only calls him dad or father during emotional or quiet moments.

Whenever they're hanging out, Ben likes to bring him and Azmuth cricket smoothies to drink together.

Despite how they seem to bicker often, Myaxx and him play off each other rather well, able to dry wit each other every day.

Azmuth and Albedo's relationship is also very complicated. Before Azmuth returned, Albedo was an outstanding Galvan and protégé, being praised every single day. This, unfortunately, made Albedo develop a prideful nature and his close minded views on the galaxy, as he rarely was ever put down or critiqued. His ego also got a bit of a boost when the great Azmuth took notice of him, and made him his assistant, and while he loved it at first, some issues started to arise when Azmuth wasn't like the other Galvans who praised Albedo to no end. That isn't to say Azmuth never complimented him and liked his work, but he was an honest man who knew no one was perfect, and especially wasn't going to worship someone, knowing what kind of ego that could make in someone. It doesn't help that Albedo just can't understand what Azmuth sees in Ben, and how the two bond, despite Ben's young careless nature, and being human. It ends up making Albedo want a lot more from Azmuth, the man he looks up too, and when he's denied that he eventually turns his back on the First Thinker. Azmuth can only hope that being able to turn into other aliens, and being stuck as human, will teach Albedo that Galvans, including himself, aren't what make the galaxy function.

Azmuth is typically one of the must unfazed people you'll ever meet.

Given most Galvans have an issue of seeing themselves as the top race, Azmuth is kind of fond of Blukic and Driba for being very open and helpful to outsiders, and was even the one to suggest them to join the Plumbers.

Zenith and Azmuth too meet up again eventually, and while they don't get back together, they do make amends.

Azmuth was fairly small for a Galvan for a long time, until he finally hit his growth spurt late into his teen years, something his sister use to tease him over.

Greymatter's DNA mostly comes from Azmuth, meaning Ben actually looks like a Azmuth when he was young, his family having made comments about Ben being his "Clone".

-Divi-

Here we have the twin sister of Azmuth, Divi. A dry wit, no nonsense, sarcastic and feisty single mother of her three chaotic sons. Unlike Azmuth's father and nephews, she was something I had to completely make up from the spot, since Azmuth was said to have nephews, that meant he had to have a sibling, so it was fun to create someone with an interesting dynamic with Azmuth. She is, after all, one of the few people to exhibit some of those petty family squabbles out of him. So I hope you enjoy her and her sons.

As mentioned before, Azmuth and her went through rebellious phases after some downfall in their family life, with Divi jumping around jobs and never settling for one, and even dating another Galvan that neither Azmuth or Retaliator approved off. When Azmuth first left Galvan Prime to go into hiding, Divi and her boyfriend had still been dating. However, when he finally came home, he found the boyfriend to be gone, and Divi now a single mother to three sons. Azmuth never got a clear story what happened to the boyfriend, but he knows that the break up was nasty, and that the boyfriend isn't on Galvan Prime anymore.

Sometime after Divi had her children, she eventually settled for a job in the nursery/incubation centre on Galvan Prime, looking after eggs and newly hatched tadpoles before they go home with their parents.

Divi is quite a blunt and honest woman, who has no time for dragging things on, and while she may sound harsh, she ends up just wanting the best for people. In fact her open nature of speech is how she gets people to listen and see reason.

Her and Azmuth had a...bit of a dysfunctional relationship growing up. Azmuth was actually a slow learning when he was young, and Divi had a habit of picking on him. They did eventually mallow out, until tragedy struck their family and they entered their rebel phases, and the bickering and arguing come from both sides. They have made up since Azmuth returned, but the two have their squabbles here and there, but they're mostly just playful banter or family habits.

Her and Myaxx get along quite well, and the two like hanging out with each other.

She's also fond of Ben since meeting him, and the two like chatting whenever he plays with her sons, he's even babysat for her a few times.

She has no interest in dating again anytime soon, and is proud to be a single mother.

She's the one who points out Azmuth and Ben's family like roles to each other often, mostly due to the fact that she understands what a paternal feeling is like, and because she's blunt about it.

She got her wisdom feet first out of her and Azmuth growing up.

While Azmuth was off in hiding, Divi reconnected with his father when looking after to him after surgery. So, unlike Azmuth, she mostly just calls him father and dad.

-Trapez, Cieven & Aegls-

The three mischievous nephews, sons and grandsons of the family. Left to right, Trapez, Cieven & Aegls, who are the triplets of Divi. The three are like glue, and are often playing or up to little tricks, creating chaos around Galvan Prime. While they mostly look the same and are all tricksters, they do have personality differences. Trapez is the best when it comes to emotions and the phycology behind it, something most Galvans struggle with, and can come across as the kindest of the three. Cieven has a lot of traits from Divi and Azmuth, being fairly intelligent and wanting to be a lot like his uncle someday, though does have some of their sarcastic nature as well. Aegls is the most energetic of the three, hype up often and quick with crafting and thinking of ideas. When you combine all three together, you get a force of endless chaos.

Their mother has been honest to them about who their father is, and why he isn't around, but the three have grown up fine without him, and will forever be grateful for the work their mother put into caring for them.

They were born while Azmuth was away, and so have been building up hype about their missing uncle for most of their lives, enough so that when Azmuth did come back, they all tackled hugged him while he was still understanding the idea that he was now in fact an uncle.

They love Ben and the Omnitrix, roping Ben into some of their pranks and shenanigans, and while Ben mostly tries to stare them into the right direction, he can't help himself half the time and joins in on the chaos, much to Azmuth and Divi's dismay.

They do become a part of my Ben 10 Next Gen Series, given Galvans take forever to age, and will finally be young tweens when the Next Gen takes place.

The three each have different dream jobs for the future. Trapez wants to be a psychiatrist or doctor, Cieven wants to be an inventor, and Aegls was to deal with energy based matters like his grandfather once did.

Never give these kids sugar or coffee, it will end badly.

The three...had a bad encounter with Malware during his rampage, and for a while were scared around Galvanic Mechamorphs...They get over it eventually, but Malware does haunt them for a long while.

They once picked up some colourful language from Azmuth and Myaxx when overhearing them once. You can imagine how Divi took that.

-The First Thinker Family-

The traumatic event that struck the family was in fact the death of Azmuth and Divi's mother, who was killed by someone who was after Galvan Tech. The family fell apart after that, with Retaliator falling into a deep depression and being distant from his kids, and Azmuth and Divi going wild in their teen/young adult years to distract themselves from the grief. They've all come together now and have been taking the proper sets to honor her memory, and become a family again.

While no one has outright said it, Ben has kind of become part of this little family in a few ways, and after a while Azmuth stops being survived when the boy shows up for family dinners or game nights.

They all live on Galvan Prime, though Retaliator is known to take trips here and there around the galaxy, wanting to see more of it during his retirement.

On the outside, many Galvans treat the family as there wise people, who have sage advice. And while that isn't wrong, once you get to know them they're a very chaotic family...

[drivingsideways]

Hey talk to me about your top three favourite kdrama women. What makes them special? What's a fic you would like to write about any one of them?

Mystery anon! :D What a lovely ask. 

I’m going to cheat a bit and divide my answer into characters I loved a lot, but do not want to write fic about, because I think the canon gives me what I need; and characters that I loved a lot but NEED TO BE RESCUED ZOMG.  (My fic writing impulses are 50% spite and 50% fix-it )

Caveat being that I’ve still watched only maybe a dozen kdramas, so I’m pretty limited in my knowledge!

Characters that I love a lot, but have very zero fic impulses toward:

Han Yeo-jin from Stranger/Secret Forest: What a delight! What an iconique character! Is there anyone like her? NO. LSY-nim gives us a delightfully complex character, and Bae Doona knocks it out of the park in every single scene, so I’m just happy to be along for the ride. I think what makes Yeo-jin special for me is the intrinsic place of empathy that she operates from.  I think “righteous” is a word that often comes with negative connotations (self-righteous, for eg), but I do think she’s one of the most righteous-in-the-good-way characters I’ve watched in kdrama or any drama. I’m tired of stories that portray goodness as “boring” , as unworthy of narrative breadth or depth, and I love that Han Yeo-jin comes to us like a breath of fresh air in our particular dystopian narratives hellscape. She’s good, but never naive. She’s righteous but never cruel in her moral certainties.  I think that LSY nim, in the second season especially, gave Yeo-jin the kind of arc that character deserved when she’s forced to really dig deep into herself to figure out how she’s going to live in the world in the face of a deeply cutting, deeply personal disillusionment, and I’m really hoping for an S3 to see how that plays out further. 

Goo Hae-ryung from Rookie Historian: Ok, I will admit this may be rose tinted glasses view due to this show being my gateway drug into kdrama, but c’mon! She’s a reader! and a Thinker! And loves her wine! She’s plucky! She’s cute! She’s got a wry sense of humour! She’s got principles! She’s got a solid common sense to her that somehow doesn’t get in the way of her dreaming BIG! Oh dear, doesn’t she sound like the Mary-est of Mary Sues? Good for her.gif,  I say! Anyways, Shin Se-kyung is unutterably charming in this (AS IN EVERY SHOW OMG GIRL) and I just have a huge fondness for free-spirited heroines who get to tramp through the narrative changing the world as they do! 

Lee Ji-an from My Ahjussi: I’ve never had my heart broken more OR restored by any single character. IU is *phenomenal * in this, I think she really stepped up to what the script demanded from her. Ji-an’s weariness, her fear and vulnerability, her prickliness, her anger and her bitterness, and how, despite everything, she fights : GOD. Just. Again, what I love about the writing in this show is that it’s deeply empathetic without being cloyingly sentimental. I think a less, hmm, imaginative writer/PD might have focused on the Lee Ji-an the victim, and while the show definitely tells you in no uncertain terms that she is one,  of both circumstances and a cruel society, I think it refuses to take away her agency over her own life.(Lee Ji-an when we meet her is too busy hanging onto life by tooth and claw to indulge in self-pity, but we also see the toll it takes on her not to be able to say “this is too heavy a burden for me to carry myself and it isn’t my fault”; the show I think approaches Dong-hoon from the opposite side- his emotional isolation is partly a result of his own choices, but he doesn’t see it yet, and so his journey is also about letting people in and sharing the burden, but also recovering his own agency over his life. It’s an interestingly gender-bent arc, which is one of the things I love about this show. )

Ok, can I please add one more?

Hwang Han-joo from Melo is my Nature: She just felt SO real to me. She’s someone who doesn’t have the spectacular brilliance of either Jin-joo or Eun-jung, and struggles with accepting her limitations but not allowing herself to be defeated by them? I love her struggles as a mother, as a working woman in a sexist industry, a woman who’s perhaps having to rethink and reimagine what she wants from romance. I love that she’s a little silly, a lot kind, and an optimist, and just. I just think she’s the bravest of the three, tbh, and I LOVE HER AND I WOULD WATCH A SPIN OFF ABOUT JUST HER (i shouldn’t have faves among the three i know, BUT I DO, IT’S HER, IT’S HER.)

Ok! On to the next section! And I’m going to cheat again because I can’t stop at three. SORRY. NOT SORRY. 

Characters I love and SHOULD write fic for if I weren’t such a tired and lazy bunny:  

Song Sa-hui from Rookie Historian: Oh, girl, girl, GIRL. I love how she fights to snatch her freedom from the jaws of the patriarchy. I love that she unapologetically centers herself while doing that, because she knows that nobody else will.  I love that she’s prickly and calculating. I love that she’s smart and knowledgeable. I am SO HAPPY that she got to carve out a little bit of freedom for herself, even if it also is exile to some degree. She *should * be Emperor Jin’s Prime Minister and steering the ship of state, while also carrying on a tumultous affair with Queen Min Woo-hee, while ALSO commiserating with Emperor Jin about his boyfriend Historian Min Woo-won’s regrettable tendency towards Principles (TM) and masochism-but-not-in-the-fun-way. (This takes up much of his time which is why Song Sa-hui is running the country, of course. It works out well for all concerned, well, except her dad, of course.)

Song Ga-gyeong from Search:WWW: What’s NOT to love about our brilliant, beautiful, emotionally tortured gay icon? Nothing, absolutely nothing. I loved how the show allowed her to be flawed and make bad decisions, and then allowed her to make better decisions and regain control of her life. What I do need to do, of course, is see the CANON LOVE STORY between her and Cha Hyeon through to the end. It must, of course, include at least one baseball game, a lot of tequila and messy beach kisses. 

Oh Ji-hwa from Beyond Evil: Oh boy, this year’s runaway hit cleared the extremely low bar for standard crime/ thriller shows by leaving more than one of its female characters breathing and with all limbs intact, and got called feminist for it BUT it didn’t do justice to any of them in any meaningful way and that never hurt more than in the way they sidelined Kim Shin-rok’s talent by not giving Oh Ji-hwa anything much to do. She’s a tough as nails cop, a loving sister, a devoted but unsentimental friend-and by rights SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE HEROINE OF THIS SHOW. My secret fic fantasy is to rewrite the show entirely by making her , and the two other female characters in non-antagonist roles- Yoo Jae-yi and Im Sun-nyeo- as the central characters, as they investigate a serial killer who targets women.  It’s the only acceptable version of this done-to-death (ha!) genre, I have no idea what the Baeksang jury and tumblr fandom is smoking when they hype the show so much, I want none of it. 

Jung Sun-ah from The Devil Judge: I love her rage, her spite, her passionate defense of women, her style, her sexiness, her rage, her rage, her brilliance, her tenaciousness, her smartness, her clothes, her refusal to hate herself for everything she is and chooses to be, her ambition, her comfort wielding power, her EVERYTHING. Dead, her? NOT IF I HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT. Here’s what *really * happened at the end of canon- she gets out of the building by planting that lady-like but still deadly gun against Kang Yo-han’s temple and making him lead her through his own “secret escape route” or whatever the fuck it was the show wanted us to believe. From there on out, it’s all sunshine and beaches, and scheming and waiting for the right moment to strike again-though of course, this time around, she also has to reckon with vigilant, tenacious cop Soo-hyun -another character who REALLY didn’t die for manpain reasons and had the good sense to leave her gay best friend to follow his psychopath boyfriend to Switzerland or wherever it is that star crossed lovers in kdrama land meet up on the regs these days- anyways, Soo-hyun and her are in this catch-me-if-you-can epic transnational honest and cute cop-and-beautiful sexy villain chase and yes, they WILL kiss (and more) AND IT WILL BE GLORIOUS. 

*whew *

Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

[trainsinanime]

While I’m apparently on a long streak of critiquing head canons and hot takes (don’t worry, I plan to do more positive stuff again soon, as soon as I think of any), there’s one in particular that I wanted to tackle. Not so much because it’s super popular, but because its mere existence and the context is interesting. That is the head canon that Marinette has not just Adrien’s events on her calendar; she has that for all of her friends. The idea here is that Marinette is not a creepy stalker; she’s just very well organised, at least about things like that.

There’s a lot to unpack here, so let’s just start with canon: She canonically forgot the date of the big race in Timebreaker, and thus didn’t realise it overlapped with something else she had agreed to do, a situation that she could literally only resolve because the show randomly added time travel. That speaks very much against the idea that Marinette is good at remembering dates.

Then there’s also the more immediate context: When Marinette pulls down her calendar, revealing that she has all this data on Adrien, Alya is very surprised and essentially accuses Marinette of being a creepy stalker, and Marinette essentially admits as much (by pulling a funny "you got me" face).

There are many more instances of Marinette being very much not well organised, e.g. Gorizilla. So I think this head canon is factually at least very implausible, and I would argue that it’s just plain wrong.

So let’s get into the big question of why people have this head canon. Thankfully, it generally always comes with the answer supplied: It’s to prove that Marinette is not a creepy stalker.

This is most likely in response to the "Marinette is a horrible person and a Mary Sue" part of the fandom that exists for some reason. I am not particularly fond of their hot takes, and I think many of them are plain wrong. (Aside: I know I wrote a post discussing the idea that Marinette is a Mary Sue once, but I can’t find it somehow. The short version is no, she’s not.)

One of their main lines of arguments is that Marinette is a horrible stalker, and that the show is thus encouraging stalking, and how dare you? Think of the children! And the fact that Marinette has Adrien’s full schedule is evidence for that.

One way to respond to that is by saying that no, Marinette is not a creepy stalker at all, this is just a normal thing that people do. There is the unspoken assumption here that it is not creepy at all for a friend to either steal my calendar, or constantly surveil me to learn my schedule (unless you mean to tell me that she managed to ask Adrien for his full calendar). I disagree with that, but it’s not even that relevant. The truth of the matter is that Marinette is a bit of a stalker. Sorry.

Throughout the course of the show, she steals his phone, she steals the phone of her love rival Kagami, she crashes a party she was explicitly not invited to, and she is overall a bit possessive and a bit obsessed. Over time, she gets better at it, but those are elements that are there in canon, plain to see. Lying about that to ourselves isn’t going to get us anywhere useful.

Marinette is not either a full-on horrible person creepy stalker, or an angel who does nothing wrong. She’s a bit of both. She’s incredibly heroic, and she can be incredibly petty. She hates liars, but lies all the time herself. She defeats Akumas, and she often has caused the conditions that Hawkmoth could exploit to make Akumas herself. And, yes, she is a bit obsessive over Adrien at times, bordering on stalker-ish behaviour. That’s not a contradiction or a plot hole or a flaw in the writing, that’s what it means to have a well-rounded character.

Marinette is also not a full-on role model. Her primary task is to be relatable. That means some of her actions are clearly mistakes and wrong choices and, at times, just plain shitty things to do - just like all of us. And she has to get over them to grow as a person.

If you want a full-on simple yes or no answer whether Marinette’s stalking is acceptable, you first have to ask… well, you first have to ask why you want that answer in the first place. To me, the truth that she is complex, complicated and has stuff she needs to work on is far more interesting than either answer.

That aside, the show never acts as if Marinette’s actions with regards to Adrien were useful, great or sane. They’re not meant to be emulated. Additionally, the show draws relatively clear boundaries. Marinette is stalking Adrien, but she never actually harasses him. She never causes trouble for him on purpose. She stole his phone, but she didn’t invade his privacy. She broke into his room, but it wasn’t invading his privacy, she just snuck into a fairly public event she wasn’t invited to. She never causes harm to Adrien.

Now, people might still say that they cannot forgive that, and while I disagree, I think that’s a valid point of view. I can prove facts wrong all day long, but obviously I cannot prove to anyone that they like the show.

Either way, these are parts of her character that are canon. It’s easier to pretend that they’re not. But it’s both more honest and in my opinion more interesting to take them for what they are.

[thiswasinevitableid]

Hii uhhh this is for mermay, but it's not one of the fills so please feel free to ignore this if it doesn't catch your interest!!

Idea;; within a mostly-canon setting, Duck is turned into a merperson (probably while they're trying to deal with one of the abominations, but that part's flexible) and has to deal with it while still trying to like,, function. He gets a magic disguise, but hijinks ensue.

Here you go! I attached this to "Summer rain" and another mermay prompt. It's SFW

The last time he went flying through the air and into the water while fighting an abomination, he almost died. So he’s none too pleased when he surfaces from being chucked in Lake Brahe.

“What the fuck Indrid?!”

“I’m so sorry” Mothman flaps above him, both sets of hands tapping together anxiously, “I promise this is for the best but I’ll admit the exact process might have been overkill.”

“You fuckin’ think??” Duck kicks towards shore, grabbing his hat as it tries to float away, “the others are still back there with that thing. And I fuckin hate bein’ chucked into things without warnin.”

“I don’t think there are people who do enjoy such things.” Indrid alights on the shore Duck is swimming towards.

“Well then don’t fuckin do them.”

“It is for your own good, Duck Newton.”

“Yeah, heard that one before.” He hits shallow water, wades to shore trying to shake his hat dry, “now c’mon, fly me back so we can-”

His legs crumple, sending him face first into the lake. Crawling is no good, his whole body contorting and shaking, his throat and lungs burning. He claws at the pebbles and sand, coming away with fistfuls, grabbing for something, anything, to pull him from the water, as if reaching shore will free him from the pain wracking his body.

The world is coming in photo negative now, flashes of color that don’t make sense, the crack of his bones filling his ears. He might he crying, the pain is too deep to tell what else he’s feeling or doing.

“Help” he rasps into the night air.

Human hands cup his face, guide his aching head down across bony legs, “It will not last much longer.”

“Am” he gasps, feels the Sylph turn their bodies for some unknown purpose, breathing easier after he does, “am I gonna die.”

“No. And before you ask, your powers would not have done much for you if you still had them.”

“Fuck” he whimpers.

“Agreed.” Indrid strokes his hair, “five more seconds. Four, three, two, one.”

Duck passes out before Indrid can say anything else. He’s roused by the footfalls of combat boots and wingtips down the beach.

“Duck, Indrid-OH HOLY SHIT!”

“He’s not-”

“No, Ned, he is very much alive. Had I not moved him when I did, he would have suffocated before you could get him to any water.”

“Thank god.” Ned must be by his head.

“Aubrey, can, can you, it hurts-”

“Ummmmm” His friend sounds like she’s trying to come up with a comforting explanation, “which part of your tail hurts?”

Duck sits bolt upright, then falls back into Indrid’s arms, staring at the deep green and silver tail where his legs should be.

“Well….fuck.”

---------------------------------------------------------------

“How are you doing?” Indrid, red glasses glinting and pink and yellow sweater hanging off his tall frame, perches on a rock.

“Great. I’m a regular, breakable dipshit who turned into a fuckin merman without warnin, I had to have Barclay call work and tell ‘em I got a flu so they won’t fire me for disppearin, anything my friends bring me to eat gets soggy, and I ain’t seen my cat in three days.”

“So...not good then?”

Duck raises an eyebrow. Indrid smiles, not his usual confident, casual one. He looks unsure, which is in and of itself kind of unnerving.

“No, Indrid. Not good at all.”

“Ah. Apologies, I sometimes have trouble parsing certain tones.”

Duck swims closer, “Sorry.”

“It’s quite alright. You have every reason to be angry and upset. Even with me.”

“Pretty sure you didn’t curse me.”

“No. But had I moved faster, gotten to you all sooner, you would not have been in it’s path at all.”

It’s so matter of fact. The same way Indrid talks about anything troubling.

“Certainly my most newsworthy failure”

“Had you not arrived at the cottonwood, it would have been rather bad for me.”

“Oh, don’t worry about the eye. It hurt, but I have felt far worse.”

“And I have yet more bad news; while I can make a charm that will allow you to be in your human form for up to six hours at a time, the properties of that abomination mean eventually you’ll have to return to water.”

There’s a flicker in the smile, so swift Duck wonders if it’s only because his eyes are no longer human, slit pupiled instead of round, that he sees it at all. Or if it’s because this is the first time they haven’t been surrounded by heat, noise, or danger.

“Indrid, you know I don’t blame you, right?”

“Of course, Duck. I was merely being thorough in my apology.” Now it’s his normal, wide smile, but too tight across his teeth.

“He was before my time.” Vincent grins as he sets the DVDs on a well-dusted shelf, “though if Woodbridge is anything like he is now, I doubt they got along. The other ministers say he was...determined when he left. Like he could conquer any challenge earth presented during his quest."

Indrid’s glasses slip down his nose and he pushes them up before Duck gets even a glance at his eyes, “Now, where did I put that pin…” He pats his pockets, freezes when Duck manages to set a hand on his shin.

“Indrid, I mean it. Didn’t blame you then, don’t blame you now. Hell, from the sound of it you saved my ass, big time. So, uh, what I’m tryin to say is thanks. For lookin out for me.”

He squeezes in what he hopes is a friendly fashion. Indrid chirps, once, face losing all trace of eeriness. Then he schools it back to normal.

“You’re welcome. Punching aside, I’m quite fond of you. I’m going to use this for your charm, if that’s alright.” A souvenir pin from the Monongahela's tenth anniversary sits between slender fingers.

“Holy shit, I been lookin for that for ages. I, uh, I try to-”

“Collect them, yes. I saw that in a conversation between you and Juno. I was going to give this to you anyway, goodness knows it took awhile to find it in the trailer, but now it can serve a greater purpose.” With that, he pulls a folded piece of paper from his pocket. Duck’s image unfolds before them, Indrid smoothing it out and setting it on the rock as he begins working. Duck watches with interest, notices the process is much slower than it was when Indrid disguised Billy.

“Am I harder to get right than Ryan Gosling?”

“Yes. Well, not technically, no, but with Billy I just needed him to look human. I need you to look like, well, you. Such a fine specimen requires the utmost care.”

Duck’s about to toss back his usual line he gives to guys who compliment him, then realizes flirting with the Mothman might be weird, or that Indrid may not have meant it as anything more than some clinical, Sylph observation of humans. He tries to distract himself by swimming, but his tail still won’t do what he wants much of the time.

“You’ll have greater success on your back.” Indrid says without looking up.

He’s right, and Duck manages to swim without difficulty, tail shimmering in the sunset. The one time he glances at his friend, Indrid is staring at swaying and rippling in the water.

When the Sylph finally calls that he’s done, Duck speeds to the rock, let’s Indrid pin the charm to the collar of his undershirt that he keeps wearing because he’s still a human, dammit, just one with an inconvenient tail and he’s not gonna start skinny-dipping in a national forest. Again.

Duck flails when legs replace his tail, Indrid’s hand grabbing his a moment before he needs it to and helping him onto dry land.

“Satisfactory?”

“It’s fuckin perfect!”

“Wonderful!” Indrid claps his hands together, “what would you like to do? I may need to escort you for the first day, to be certain there’s no flaw in the charm.”

Duck studies the pink light tracing the angles of Indrid’s face, “Wanna meet my cat? She looks like a bobcat that lost a bar fight, but she’s sweet as can be.”

Indrid’s grin turns genuine for the first time all day, “I would like nothing better.”

The mothman becomes a staple of his life after that. With the charm, he’s able to help the Pine Guard track and slay the abomination, go to work, look after his house, and generally convince anyone not in the know that he’s totally fine. But he has to return to the lake every day, spends his mornings and nights there, even his lunch breaks when he knows he needs to give the charm a break then. It’s far enough away that he’s in no danger of being seen by civilians, but at least once Indrid had to fly him to it before they ran out of time (and Aubrey had to teleport them there, which made him nauseous).

Indrid keeps him company, sometimes with the others and sometimes on his own. He finds waterproof cards and games, listens to Duck talk about work and tells him about his travels. At first he worries Indrid is only doing it out of guilt, but as the weeks go by he comes to see that Indrid likes him. He laughs at his jokes, gives him as close to his full attention as he can, even scratches his scales with his mothed-out claws when they start driving Duck crazy with itchiness.

His friend always goes home to sleep, which is why, as Duck is drifting on his back, half snoozing and half star-gazing, the red eyes high in a tree come as a surprise. He’s on the other end of the lake, doesn’t seem to see Duck as he spreads his wings and flaps into the air. Then he nosedives, pulling up before he hits the water and then skimming across it in broad strokes. He shoots upward, spins, and then repeats the routine.

Duck’s seen him fly during fights and to escape the Cottonwood. Never like this, never so free and graceful. It’s such a joyful sight, makes Duck wish he had wings of his own so he could join him, dance across the stars and their reflections.

He swims towards Indrid, begins mirroring him on a whim, twisting, diving, and leaping as best he can in time with the cryptids flight. Pushes his tail to carry him faster, farther, all for the sake of keeping pace with the beautiful monster in the sky.

Surfacing after a particularly giant splash, a voice lilts down from the sky.

“Race you to the other side.”

Duck loses, but only just, cackles when Indrid buzzes him so closely he can feel the tickle of his feathers. When the mothman finally lands Duck swims to him, scooting up on land so he can watch Indrid fluff and clean his feathers.

“I come to this lake to practice flying without fear of being seen. I assumed you were asleep but, ah” his antenna twitch, “I’m glad you weren’t.”

Duck stretches, moans happily when Indrid gently glides his claws up his tail, “Me too.”

“Same time tomorrow night?” Soft hope flutters between them.

“Yeah.” He grins up at the cryptid, “bring your A-game, I’m gonna carb load tomorrow mornin so I can kick your butt.”

“I look forward to it.”

----------------------------------------------------

It’s been a month and a half since he transformed, which puts them smack in summer thunderstorm season. Duck’s used to it, though he’s more than a little nervous about what will happen if lightning hits the lake. Luckily, tonight it’s just soft summer rain instead of electricity and drops the size of robin eggs.

Indrid isn’t faring as well. The rain droops his antenna, compresses his fluff until Duck can see he’s still a twig under all those feathers. He shivers, chirrs in discomfort and shakes off his wings, but stays put on his favorite rock.

“There a reason you ain’t just turnin human? Could put on a raincoat that way.”

“I” Indrid sneezes, “I want you to feel comfortable. It can be so unpleasant, feeling like the only non-human in a place.”

Duck swims to the rock, flicking his tail up and down as he float, “You’re always changin form to make me comfortable.”

“Yes. Because I want you to not be unnerved by me.”

“But what about what you want?”

A feathery shrug, “That doesn’t matter.”

“Drid-”

Red eyes glare at him, “I am well aware of how I look, Duck. What people think of me. Would you have spent even a fraction of the time you have with me if your transformation had not forced it?”

“Y-fu-uh-I mean not no?” He sinks into the water as resignation becomes visible on Indrid’s inhuman features.

“I’m glad for our friendship, Duck. And I don’t doubt that you’re fond of me now. But please don’t pretend I was your first choice for company.”

“I mean...you weren’t. But that’s because we barely knew each other, hell, you only got back to town three months ago.” Duck takes the hand nearest him, “if this happened to me now? You might be the first person I’d want lookin out for me.”

Indrid chirrs, dips his head down to rub his cheek against Duck’s hand. Suddenly he wants nothing as badly as he wants to get Indrid warm and dry so he can run his fingers through every inch of those feathers.

“May I turn human?’

“Of course. Means you can come swimmin with me.”

Indrid, now in a tank top and yoga pants, cocks his head, “Why?”

“It’ll be fun?”

“My kind are not the strongest of swimmers.”

“Good thing I got a tail and gills, then. Besides, you’ll stop feelin as sticky from the humidity if you’re in the water.”

Indrid pulls off his shirt and pants, revealing duck-patterned boxers, and cautiously wades into the lake.

“Ooohhhh, that is so much better” his sighs, too blissed-out to notice the sudden drop, and only just manages to grab his glasses before going under. Duck zips forward, hoisting him easily into an embrace as he splutters.

“Blechhh, I despise the taste of lake water.” He clings to Duck, skinny legs teasingly tense around his tail.

Duck rubs his tail up and down his inner legs soothingly, “you, uh, want somethin to get rid of the taste?”

“Please.” Indrid smirks, clearly expecting a goof. When Duck tips his glasses up his forehead, he goes stone still.

“Can I kiss you?”

“This was not in any of the timelines.”

“Just came to me now. And that ain’t an answer.”

Indrid nods, tips his face forward to bring their lips together. Duck sighs, floats lazily backwards as Indrid slips his tongue between his lips. When they part, there are more stars in his eyes than in the whole milky way.

“Do you want some good news?” Indrid nuzzles his neck with an adorable trill.

“Lay it on me.”

“The futures just shifted; Aubrey and Janelle will have a cure for your condition tomorrow.”

“Hell yeah.” Duck flips them upright, Indrid “eeping” and holding tighter, “can’t wait to stop worryin’ about whether I’m gonna start suffocatin on land. And, uh” he nips Indrid’s lower lip, forgetting about his sharpened teeth until the Sylph lets out a little moan, “if you ain’t busy tomorrow night, like to take you on a date.”

Indrid beams, “I’d like that so very much. Though I will admit, I’m going to miss how this looks on you.” He squeezes his thighs around Duck’s tail.

“You can always whip me up one if we wanna, uh, relive the fun parts of this experience.”

“True. And with that in mind, my sweet; how do you feel about wings?”

[otterskin]

Pet Peeves in Thor Stuff

Inspired by a few posts doing this, so thought I’d vent and get it out here.

1. MCU Loki’s Name

I don’t care what the fan-run wikis say. All the official MCU material, including the text of the actual movies themselves, call him Loki Odinson or, for a brief period, Loki of Asgard. Loki Laufeyson is the name of a character from Marvel comics, and him having that name makes sense for that character’s backstory, which is very, very different from ‘adopted at birth and a late discovery’ MCU Loki. Incidentally, Norse Mythology Loki is not Loki Laufeyson, he’s Loki Laufeyjarson, which is a matronym because Laufey is his mother in most Norse Myths.

Loki in Thor 1 was Loki Odinson, Avengers was Loki of Asgard, and he certainly seemed fond of Odin again in Ragnarok and officially reclaimed the title Odinson in IW. He’s called Odinson over and over again in official Marvel publications such as the illustrated dictionary. Please stop using the wrong name. It’s weird and wrong to assume his name MUST default to his birth-father’s upon discovery of adoption, no matter what he’d been called his whole life. Especially when I think it’s pretty clear that Loki vehemently rejects any relationship with that namesake. He literally murdered Laufey to prove to Odin he had only one father, I don’t know how he could be more clear about his preferences.

And yes, I do think that this invalidates the fan-wikis as good sources of information. If they can’t get a name right, you probably shouldn’t trust anything in the article below it. Stick with canon publications.

2. The Transformation Spell

And heck, while we’re on this page, yes, the spell keeping Loki Asgardian is Odin’s. I don’t mind fanfic that posits a different origin, because hey, we’re just trying to have fun here, do what you want and I’ve probably read a lot of it already - but this is the canon explanation, please stop messaging me to tell me I’m wrong when I say it’s Odin’s spell doing it. Also, the reason it didn’t break when Odin died is because magic can outlive the caster, as Doctor Strange said. This ain’t the Phantom Menace.

(Incidentally, this dictionary is fun and even has entries for Huginn and Muninn!)

3. Step-brothers and Half-brothers are different things and neither is correct for Thor and Loki’s relationship. Nor is Odin Loki’s step-father.

I don’t see this in the Thor Fandom much, it’s more in articles and reviews I’ve read, but it’s kinda appalling how people don’t know the difference between brothers, step-brothers, half-brothers, and blood-brothers. Not being sure who your second cousin twice removed is I get, but I would hope that these are much more commonly understood. Just to get it off my chest, even though I’m sure no-one reading has ever thought different -

Step-brothers are when two unrelated families are joined by marriage. The children share no biological parents, but their parents are married. Unless Odin married Laufey at some point, he is not Loki’s step-father, and Thor is not Loki’s step-brother. (I mean, Odin’s had a long and probably very interesting and mysterious life, so I suppose it’s POSSIBLE he had a real bender at one point, but even if he had a Vegas wedding to the King of the Frost Giants and then decided to throw away the ring as if nothing had happened, the relationship he has with Loki has always been identified as ‘Father’).

Half-brothers are when children share one biological parent, but not two. So unless that bender with Laufey got REALLY crazy, Loki is not Thor’s half-brother either.

Blood-brothers - So some people will use this phrase to refer to people who are related by blood, but that’s sort of an older phrase. However, for most elementary school kids and in the context of Norse Mythology, it has another meaning - two people, unrelated by birth, who undergo a ceremony that involves blood mixing as an oath of brotherhood. Norse-Myth Loki is usually depicted as blood-brothers with Odin (and, in a few rare stories I read, with Thor, instead, but that’s a long story about how Thor was slowly starting to replace Odin as chief patriarch and therefore subsuming a lot of his traits and relationships). However, in the MCU, neither of these meanings currently applies to Thor and Loki. They are not blood related, and they’ve not undergone any blood oath ceremony either (although you can bet your briskets I’d LOVE to see that and it’s been in my general prediction box/wish-list since 2011. Imagine how happy it’d make us to see Thor and Loki choose to have their relationship, rather than feeling like it was Odin’s decision and they’re just living with it.).

Brothers - if in doubt about any brotherly relationship, just say this and you won’t be wrong. Thor and Loki are brothers, or adopted brothers, full stop. So no more step-half-blood nonsense.

And to be clear, if you’re writing fanfic that re-imagines this relationship, this is in no way directed at you. I’m more venting at the dearth of articles, presumably written by university graduates with an English degree, who can’t seem to keep this straight.

4. Brother is a Proper Noun

While I’m on this brother train, a small grammatical note - ‘Father’, ‘Mother’, and ‘Brother’, if being used in place of a name, are proper nouns, which means they’re capitalized.

Ex. “Stop smearing your booger on my shirt, Brother.”

It’s not capitalized if it’s not being used in place of a name, but is simply referring to the noun.

Ex. 2 “My brother once ate a whole goat without noticing it was still alive.”

Ex. 3 “I never knew we had a sister.”

Sorry, sorry - but I see this mistake a lot while I’m reading and I daresay I make it myself all the time!

5. Frigga isn’t perfect

Real talk, one of my least favourite tropes in fiction is ‘Woman on a Pedestal’. I really feel it denies female characters agency if they’re made out to be perfect lovely angels loved by everyone. I’ve read a ton of great fics that explore the flaws Frigga is suggested to have in the MCU but never got the screen time to deal with, and they are some of my favourites. I’ve also read a ton where she’s endlessly patient, wise, righteous, and oh-so-much-better than that heartless Odin or oaf Thor, if only she’d been in charge the whole time, nothing would have gone wrong! It’s a matter of taste and I’d never tell anyone to not write what makes them happy, but I really do think Frigga’s a better character when you engage with her mistakes and oversights and less-than-noble aspects. Women in the MCU have really gotten a short shaft when it comes to character arcs, flaws, and general humanity. Almost all the mothers are on pedestals in it, and with that comes a lack of introspection. Frigga could be argued to be in that category, but at least there is some material to suggest her imperfections that can be exploited. (Unlike Quill and Stark’s mothers, say.)

I leave it up to everyone to interpret the character for themselves, but for me her weaknesses are that she

tends to deflect blame for her choices onto others, particularly Odin.

sometimes acts to smooth things over without really acknowledging hurt, either caused or experienced.

has a manipulative streak and isn’t afraid to leverage her sons’ affection for her to get them to do what she wants, which is often ‘smoothing things over’.

probably spoiled her kids a bit

has an allergy to giant knives

Personally I like these things about her. They come from her life as a peace-maker, both in her role as a politician and a Queen and in her role in the family. She’s loyal, clever, witty, a confidant, and had the best scene in Endgame by a long mile. Frigga is the mom we’ve seen the most of, and I would love to see more in any form.

AH.... that felt good. I might do another post on my problems with how Thor is sometimes portrayed, but that’s a whole other, very personal, thing. Thanks for reading this dumb thing.

[freetobeafcknriot]

"better creatures" for the made-up fic title thing

okay this took me SO LONG, like i had a general idea right away but sadly i wasn't in the best place of mind to write it down, so i apologize for the delay. anyway, here it is! <3 i hope you like it darling, and thank you for the great title!

made-up fic title:　better creatures

alright, this one screams archangels to me so i raise you: a long-ass fic that goes from the very beginning of, well, everything, to the end of it all. the very end, that is.

at first, it's about four incredible beings; four brothers whose father, at some point, creates humanity.

we know about the fall already, but i think it would be very interesting to explore how the archangels' relationship with one another and god changed when humans came along, and what their perspectives and opinions on them were. we know about lucifer's, of course, but i feel like it would be so much fun to focus on who actually spent time among them or watching over them. because weren't the archangels (and the entirety of the heavenly host for that matter) told to love humanity? weren't they told that those weak creatures were to be better than them?

so, i would probably alternate four different povs (pre-lucifer's fall) and then three (raphael, michael, gabriel), and then mainly only one: gabriel's. the closest to us all, the one who ran away from his family's endless, eternal fighting and spent thousands of years hiding among humans.

it would be very interesting to basically go over his adventures on earth: how he came across the norse god loki, got to know him and obtain a vessel just like his, and then pretended to be a pagan god for a while. what kind of relationship he had with other deities, when and where and how he met kali, and where he went afterward, and how often he moved from one area to another. the many identities he might have adopted; a succession of different eras and continents and costumes and reigns and populations and dynasties falling apart and rebuilding themselves from ashes before his eyes. the best and the worst of all times.

just think about it: all the insignificant, fragile, silly little men and women and children that he met along the way. year after year that then turned into decades and centuries and thousands of years, while the world around him changed and wars and revolutions and discoverings kept happening one after the other.

how did his view of us evolve and change? how many names and faces from lifetimes ago did gabriel come to tuck in a corner of his grace and take with him forever, in his own way? how many times did oblivious humans befriend him or run into him on the street or spoke to him without knowing that they were going to be part of the reason we have this dialogue in season 5:

gabriel: because dad was right. they are better than us. lucifer: they are broken, flawed! abortions! gabriel: damn right they're flawed. but a lot of them try. to do better, to forgive. and you should see the spearmint rhino! i've been riding the pine a long time. but I'm in the game now, and i'm not on your side, or michael's. i'm on theirs.

i just think it would be very interesting to explore such a complex character and see him evolve and go from the archangel who didn't want anything to do with useless fighting and conflict to the only one out of four who stood up for humanity. because yeah, sure, gabriel is no saint; he has his own ways, he's a preternatural being, he's frighteningly enormous and wicked and mischievous. but he did ask himself: who is better, really? us, or them?

now, in canon, gabriel fakes his death after that particular scene with lucifer. then he will die later on. we know that. i would probably change it a little bit because i'm petty like that when it comes to the latest seasons' writing another neat little thing is that gabriel isn't the only archangel who grew fond or accepting of humans (or well, some humans? one human?). and for how much people usually focus on michael and lucifer as opposites, and for how much the archangels in general no longer have a sibling-like relationship, i would actually like to compare gabriel and michael.

they're more similar than people make them out to be, so at the very end — maybe mirroring the very beginning, from a scenery point of view; earth's very first moments vs earth's very last moments, millions of years from now — there could be these two immortals.

the trickster who lived amongst men and stood up and died for them because he cared, and the soldier harbinger of the apocalypse who spent a millennium in hell and changed while falling in love with a human.

they would probably have a complicated dynamic since so much time will have passed and so many things will have happened and as a midam shipper the aforementioned human would be there since he's thee vessel obviously but nonetheless—long story short: at last, the two remaining archangels. the ones who ended up going beyond the story's original plot and who, by caring for the silly little creatures their father created and against his better judgment, became better creatures themselves.

insp: I hear babies crying, I watch them grow They'll learn much more than I'll ever know I think to myself, what a wonderful world Yes, I think to myself, oh, what a wonderful world

send me a made-up fic title and i’ll tell you what i would write to go with it

[greatqueenanna]

Why Kristoff is a great partner and character.

There are many great male characters in the Disney canon. The Valiant, Pungent, Reindeer King Kristoff Bjogrman, stands among them as one of the best. Kristoff has something special about him that I feel goes unnoticed by many people, simply because Kristoff is a tri-tagonist in the Frozen Franchise. However, I’m here to tell you that there are things about Kristoff that truly make him shine regardless of his smaller role in the overall story. The franchise was never focused on romantic love, but within Kristoff we see a character that exemplifies what a good romantic partner should be like.

Another long one guys, so under the read more we go!

I’ve seen a few posts try and say that Kristoff’s relationship with Anna is unhealthy. However, I want to offer some viewpoints on why I feel this in not the case. According to the Hall Health Center, A healthy relationship is when two people develop a connection based on:

Mutual Respect/Honesty

Playfulness/Fondness

Trust/Support

Separate Identities

Good Communication

Kristoff is able to show all of this to Anna; while not all at once and at the very moment they meet, he does develop these skills and qualities as his and Anna’s relationship flourishes. It is also stated that all of these things take work, and is not something that just happens immediately, and that is ok. Most of these qualities Kristoff is able to show when we first meet him as adult, while others he develops over time with trial and error. As with Anna and Elsa, Kristoff is not perfect, and needed to learn certain lessons to become a better version of himself.

Mutual Respect/Honesty

It is no secret that Kristoff respects Anna’s boundaries and decisions. While he may not agree with some of them, and is vocal about it, he still doesn’t try to force his views or needs. It is always good to be honest with someone, but to not force their hand or treat them like a child. For example -

During Frozen, Kristoff is very vocal about Anna’s decision to marry Hans. He tells her that, honestly, it is a reckless decision. However, he never tries to force her to break up with or change her mind. He just very clearly states his opinion, but never steps over that boundary to try and make decisions for her. This behavior is shown throughout the film, as Kristoff is able to be honest with her on her decisions, but never tries to stop her or force her hand. The only time he directly tries to stop her, is when Anna is getting ready to throw a snowball at Marshmallow, because it directly affects her safety.

Also during Frozen, Kristoff respects Anna’s boundaries by asking Anna for her consent before kissing. He doesn’t force her into a surprise kiss, he asks her first if they could. This shows how Kristoff respects her bodily autonomy, and recognizes her possible trauma from Hans.

In Frozen 2, Kristoff again shows how he respects her decisions.

“You had to go, and of course its always fine.”

In Lost in the Woods, while Kristoff is having a harder time in this film being honest about his feelings (at first) Kristoff reiterates that he always respects Anna’s choices, never trying to force her to think one way or guilt her.

Playfulness/Fondness

Kristoff adores Anna. That, is obvious. He’s playful with her all throughout Frozen, teasing her without out right insulting her. We also know exactly how he feels about Anna as he expresses his love for her in Frozen 2. He finds Anna -

“Incredible”

“Feisty”

“Brave”

He also mentions how she’s his ‘ginger sweetheart’, suggesting that he likes her hair color (in other words, he finds her beautiful).

Also in Frozen 2, we can clearly see that Kristoff and Anna have a loving,  physical relationship. This is a bit of a wacky point to mention considering that this is a children’s film, but the implications are there so I will talk about it. Anna and Kristoff kiss multiple times with both parties being comfortable, and Anna is ready to have a make out session when Elsa and Olaf fall asleep in the sled. This shows how the two of them have enough fondness of one another to be able to be physical.

Trust/Support 

This is a big one, and one of Kristoff’s best qualities. Not only does he support her, as mentioned in the respect section, he shows how he is able to trust her decisions, openly asking her what she needs to do when he rescues her from the rock giants.

“I’m here, what do you need?”

“To get the the dam.”

“You got it!”

Kristoff doesn’t ask her why, he just trusts her judgment. This is clear development from the first film, when he didn’t trust her judgment based on her choice to marry Hans. Then, he gladly helps her up the cliff without a fuss or undermining her strength.

“Help me up.”

“We’ll meet you on the other side.”

His trust for her also grows when he is finally able to come to terms with how he feels. In fact, the scene above demonstrates how when Kristoff finally reflects on his emotions, he is able to be more confident with their relationship and have more trust that Anna knows what she’s doing. 

Kristoff also spends both films and short films giving Anna support. In Frozen, while he at first only cares about Anna’s promise to give him a new sled, he starts to show genuine concern for her. He offers to help her down when she (barely) climbs the mountain, runs to her side when she collapses from Elsa’s blast, and tries to keep her warm when carrying her down to Arendelle. Even in Frozen 2, when he’s unsure about the status of their relationship, he still comes to her aide and helps her during the fire attack, and of course comes rushing to help her with the rock giants. In Olaf’s Frozen Adventure, he sees Anna down and wants to cheer her up, and helps Elsa in Frozen Fever throw a party for her, using every inch of his strength to make sure it doesn't get ruined.

Separate Identities 

Kristoff is not dependent on Anna. While he loves her and wants to be there for her, he has a separate identity and is able to support himself.  He has a life outside of Anna, including his friendship with Sven, his troll family, and his ice business. He is able to leave Anna’s side, for example in Frozen Fever to drop off the Snowgies, and in Forest of Shadows he leaves to talk to the Trolls.

His self esteem is also not dependent on Anna. He openly wears what he wants, proclaiming that he only dress nice for Anna for as long as he’s comfortable, does strange things like talking to Sven, licking a strange sculpture in Olaf’s Frozen Adventure, compliments his stew in the same film even though Elsa and Anna are visibly disgusted, and never takes Anna’s insults in Frozen to heart.

“Nobody wants to be alone. Except maybe you.”

“(Laughs) I’m not alone.”

He states the last comment without any indication that he is being defensive or is offended by the statement. In fact, it doesn't faze him at all. His worries in Frozen 2 about Anna’s feelings are not about his self-esteem, but rather losing her as a partner. Let me better explain this. Kristoff mentality is not this -

“Anna is the only one who will consider me and if I lose her, I will have no one else. I am nothing without her. ”

It is this -

“Anna has become an important part of my life because of how amazing she is, and I don’t want to lose her.”

Yes, he does claim in Lost in the Woods how -

“Who am I, if I’m not your guy?

Where am I, if we’re not together forever?”

But I firmly believe that this has to do with him letting his fear take over, not so much how he actually feels, which I’ll explain more in a bit. Thus, Kristoff is not scared of losing his relationship with Anna because she makes him feel good about himself, he’s afraid of losing her because he genuinely loves having her around in his life. He loves her as a separate person, not as a crutch.

Good Communication 

This is the tricky one, because Kristoff has to develop this skill from trial and error. He doesn't have it already set, however it mostly affects his romantic life. He can pretty much say whatever he wants and what is on his mind to everyone else, and even to Anna before he realizes he loves her.

However, we clearly see that in Frozen 2, Kristoff is having a hard time expressing his desires to Anna. He wants to marry her, he wants to start a family. But what if Anna doesn’t want that? What if they are actually growing apart?

I care about her, but does she care about me?

Because of this fear, he is over explaining and fumbling over his words. Even so much as letting it affect his self-esteem, which he didn’t have a problem with before. As I mentioned many times in other posts, fear is a reoccurring villain in the Frozen Franchise, and it has reared its ugly face in Kristoff’s development as well.

His fear is making him hesitant, clumsy and question his self worth. Even though this really has nothing to do with any sort of dependence on Anna, he is letting his fear make him believe that he needs her to a desperate degree. In fact, he showed in the beginning of the film that he was much more calm about their relationship and had no doubts. It wasn’t until Anna started to focus more on Elsa that he started to grow this irrational fear. It didn’t happen in full blast until he thought Anna left him permanently.

However, after expressing these negative feelings out loud, and not letting them bottle up inside, he was able to see the flaw in his thinking as evident later on. After assisting Anna, he explains that he understands how she felt, and that it didn’t have anything to do with him. As Anna was strong enough to push forward even after losing everything, Kristoff was strong enough to able to put his feelings of self-doubt aside and find the confidence he lost.

“I know, I know, it’s ok. My love is not fragile.”

In just a few words, Kristoff expresses how his love was stronger than his fear, realizing what he already knew: that he is good enough, that him and Anna were fine, and that he was over reacting based on a fragile fear. Then, of course, he is able to tell Anna how he feels without doubt, finally asking her to marry him.

Thus, we know that Kristoff follows the traits of what makes a healthy relationship to a tee. Even though he didn’t have every quality at first, he developed them over time. As every character is flawed in Frozen, and need to make the bad choices first in order to learn, Kristoff needed to experience the same thing to be the best version of himself that he was always capable of. 

[glittering-snowfall]

I know I’ve vented about this before, here and on my other blog, but...

It frustrates me that the loudest negative talking points about F2 have devolved into personal insults about characters, the filmmakers, and the cast... or using books that always existed in a nebulous canon space to ‘prove’ that characters are OOC.

Look. I dislike the ending of F2. I think there were poor writing decisions in F2. (I also think there were good writing decisions.) I feel there are serious pacing issues that often undercut the good aspects of the film. I also think that, at certain points, characters’ behavior feels OOC or the resolutions to scenes feel so rushed they don’t land with the impact they should.

I don’t like the destiny elements. I don’t like the Fifth Spirit elements and I feel they compromise Elsa’s agency (and before someone says, “But they don’t determine Elsa’s actions!”, let me reiterate that they still influence Elsa’s actions and influence her life from before she is even born. This isn’t like the world influencing people. This is design - and even if you feel that the regular influences of the world that ordinary people go through are God’s design, God doesn’t take as clear and direct a hand as the spirits and magical forces do with Elsa in F2.

I actually agree with a lot of the central points the “BringElsaHome” people have, but... not for the reasons that they sometimes tout.

Like... Elsa feels slightly OOC to me in F2 because she’s so focused on her own goals even when it’s clear that Anna is panicking and hurting - and that feels legitimately off for me. Yes, Elsa frequently pushes Anna away in the first film for Anna’s own good, but we get so many scenes of Elsa being aware that she is hurting Anna emotionally and hating that. In F2, something like the ice boat scene happens and then it never comes up again. We don’t get a moment for Elsa to pause and reflect on what she’s done, we just jump to the Dark Sea scene. In fact, the more I think about it, the ice boat scene is a GOOD scene - it’s compelling and morally grey and opens up interesting conflicts and, it’s born of Elsa’s noble desire to protect those she loves), but the aftermath is what kills it because it’s so disjointed and rushed and so it feels... off...

Again, I’m not saying this to be critical of Elsa. I love Elsa. I’m being critical of the way Elsa is written at points in F2 and, more than that, how the pacing does a disservice to otherwise good scenes. I know some anti-Elsa people took my ice boat post from ages ago to say that Elsa “never apologizes” in general, but that’s just factually incorrect and I advise them to look back at all the times in the franchise when Elsa has. 

It’s strange because the “BringElsaHome” folks, I know, dislike that scene as well. And so do some anti-Elsa folks. (It’s strange how they both agree because those groups hate each other, mostly due to shipping differences - but they agree to a degree and then veer into different directions, both of which I’m not fond of.)

The “BringElsaHome” folks feel the moment sucks and is OOC (which I agree with) but then some of the more aggressive folks go into wild directions with what they consider OOC about Elsa in F2 generally. Like, going to books of dubious canonicity doesn’t further your point when I’ve just spent the last few paragraphs talking about why Elsa feels OOC between movies based on the actual texts of both films. I did that to show, you CAN argue a case about Elsa feeling off in F2 and it can make sense - but the conversation so often gets derailed by the strangest choices people choose to argue. Like, talking about how ‘classy’ Elsa is? That’s incredibly superficial and has some racist implications when combined with certain people’s negativity towards the Northuldra.

And the anti-Elsa people... well, they took hold of my old post to claim Elsa “never apologizes” which wasn’t the point of that post at all and feels rooted in biases against Elsa. It doesn’t look at the small discrepancies between characterization and pacing, it just generalizes Elsa as a “bad sister.” Even though there are nuances to the scene and, on it’s own it’s a rather good scene, it’s just a victim of choppy editing and pacing when it comes to addressing its aftermath.

At the same time, I do agree with the frustrations that Anna fans have... and some of the frustrations that Elsa fans have. let me try to explain my position.

You see, I feel that Anna’s personal journey in Frozen 2 is far better written than Elsa’s personal journey. It feels more grounded. it feels more human. I can relate to it more. The Next Right Thing is so real it hurts me to hear it. And because it feels better written, I can sympathize with Elsa fans who feel Elsa got the short shrift in F2. Someone on twitter talked about F2 being more focused on Elsa’s magic than Elsa as a person and... I agree with that. At the same time, I don’t agree with people who say the filmmakers “hate” Elsa or suggest Kristen Bell was somehow pulling strings behind the scenes. That’s not how it works, guys, and even if she made some suggestions, the writers and director are the final arbiters. The writers and director call the shots. 

While I agree with the arguments that Elsa suffered from poor writing (and poor editing) at points of F2, it’s not because the filmmakers “hate” her. I think they love her very much and wanted to make a relatable story for her. That’s why Elsa’s journey in F2 works as a metaphor for self-acceptance. 

But I do think the means they used to facilitate the metaphor are flawed. The magical destiny elements overwhelm the human elements and so it becomes... only metaphor... whereas in the first film, we had Elsa’s powers as metaphor, yes, but grounded alongside her interactions with her family and others. It becomes too abstract and it’s hard for me to relate to. (Keep in mind, I’m NOT policing anyone. As I said, it’s a powerful metaphor - and if that metaphor works as-is for you, I’m happy for you. I just needed to see more of Elsa bonding with other people - like the found family she built in the first film, like the Northuldra who could serve as a beautiful extension of that family and who I feel need more screentime. I feel it’s poor writing (or at least, flawed writing) but not born from a place of malice. More, I’d argue it comes from a good-intentioned miscalculation what made Elsa so resonant to a certain subset of fans. But that’s not hate.

I agree with Anna fans who are frustrated too. It’s interesting. Certain Elsa fans feel Elsa was pushed aside while Anna fans feel frustrated about Anna too. I sympathize with Anna fans because Elsa does always get way more focus in the marketing. Elsa gets way more attention from fans and the media and so forth. That hurts. And, even as I feel Anna got the far richer storyline in F2, Elsa still got the big showstopping numbers that everyone focused on. That can hurt.

And I also sympathize with Anna fans (of various ships) stung by the fact that F2 puts Anna through... a whole lot of pain. Where Elsa gets a journey of exultation, Anna gets to struggle as her certainties fray apart. And, for me, that hurts. Maybe it’s just because, as I said, The Next Right Thing feels too real for me.

And that sympathy of mine means I agree with different people of different ships too, to a degree. I agree with KA  and EA shippers who talk about how Anna went through so much but the filmmakers cut the moment of her getting her parent’s validation. I agree that Anna is more level-headed than Elsa throughout much of F2 and it hurts seeing her try to hold her family together. I DO NOT agree when people bring up codependency to condemn the snow sisters bond; I’m sensitive to that.

I don’t know. I agree with a lot of critiques about F2, but I also love aspects of F2 and think it’s beautiful in spite of its flaws. But I still critique it a lot. I just wish people focused their critiques on more coherent things than... on the things they do. 

[ailuronymy]

Book Club: Tallstar’s Revenge, chpt. 37-45 overview.

Two highly professional gravediggers observe the job ahead of them:

“I'd like to congratulate us both on finishing this godawful book! A whole super edition in five weeks. They said it couldn't be done, but we showed them. “ - S

“Yes! It's truly miraculous that our brains are intact still.” - K

“So glad it's over, though.” - S

“Should I grab the shovel?” - K

“Yes, it's time. Let's bury this corpse.” - S

In this final week of reading Tallstar’s Revenge, we will be thinking about these final nine questions. Well done for making it this far! We hope you’ve enjoyed the ride. 

When you’re ready, consider sharing your thoughts with #ailuronymy book club and see what other readers are thinking!

1. First impressions?

K: It's bad! It's bad. It's all bad and I'm not surprised by any of it. K: I was actually expecting there to be more bullshit in the end, but I was almost... let down? By how underwhelming it was? S: Some moments surprised me a little but like... these did not spark joy. K: It was so boring. S: I have that same note: huge anticlimactic fuckery at the end. K:  If you're going to torture me, you might as well make it interesting, Erin. K: Throw in a wild plot twist or something. K: Get me going. K: Make me feel alive.

2. How did you feel reading this section? K:  Mind numb, head empty. For like, at least three chapters I read them and then failed to register anything important for the notes. It just dragged on. S:  More bored than I expected to be! I thought it'd at least ramp up a little, but it very much did not in any meaningful way and really petered out with a sad little "wuh-wuh."

3. What chapter did you find most interesting/moving/effective, and why? K: Chapter Forty, seeing all of the clanmates that I'd been missing for half the book felt so satisfying. I missed Dawnstripe, Heatherstar, Barkface, and Hopkit all so much. The only good bit. S:  I feel that. S:  For me, I think in terms of sheer pleasure, it has to be the echoes I saw from turn to dust all that I adore in Talltail swimming in a time of crisis. K: Yes! S: It made that passage I wrote feel retroactively so much more intense and significant, which I love.

4. What chapter did you find least interesting/effective/most frustrating, and why?

K:  The final chapter, Chapter Forty-Seven. That leader ceremony was so bad and I hated all of it. K: The Shadowclan battle was also mind-numbing. S: I think it's got to be the jump from first apprentice to leader ceremony. That's so much life we don't see, which given how goddamn long the book took for the rest of his very boring life is a travesty. S:  I tend to take some umbrage with Starclan whenever it shows up in canon, but in this particular case, the way that his leader ceremony is handled--especially by Palebird and Sandgorse--is horrific. S:  I also think it's appalling that Sandgorse offers a life of forgiveness, but never once asks for it from Talltail, unless I'm mistaken? S: He thinks he can embody forgiveness, but doesn't have the humility to admit to the things that he had done wrong by Talltail. Egregious.

5. Is there a passage that stuck in your mind–for good, or not-so-good reasons? What is it, and why did it stand out? S:  I think for me, this is Sandgorse's everything in the leader ceremony. I think I'll just [my whole rant just now + thoughts on forgiveness]. K:  I had two specific quotes from this go that fit I think. K:  First was: "I guess Clan cats aren’t used to leaving home.” Jake sounded amused. “I know the feeling you’re having. The nagging pain, the tug in my pelt and paws? I get that whenever I’m away from my home too long.” “Really?” Talltail blinked. “Why?” “Every creature needs to belong somewhere,” Jake told him. “Your paws know where that is, even if you don’t.” K:  Just the phrase of "Every creature needs to belong somewhere" felt so genuine and sweet coming from Jake, and I think could have felt so much more impactful if the themes we've recognized were more evident in the story. K:  The second was: “Talltail!” Dawnstripe leaped from the Meeting Hollow. “You came back!” Delight lit up her eyes. Talltail stood still as she raced to meet him. “I couldn’t stay away.” She stopped in front of him and gazed warmly into his eyes. “Then my training wasn’t wasted.” “It was never wasted,” he meowed softly. “Not once.

S: YES K: Partially because I will always be soft for Dawnstripe, but also, the genuine tenderness between her and Talltail in this moment felt so real and so earned. K: This is what I wanted from Bluestar and Stonepelt. S: I've said it before, I'll say it again: mentor+apprentice relationships For Life. K: Talltail saying that his training with Dawnstripe was never wasted, and then immediately transitioning into him encouraging and being a positive role model for Deadkit? K:  Ugh. It's so good. S: Loved it.

6. What other non-Warriors (or Erin Hunter affiliated) books does this one remind you of? Are there themes, symbolism, or storybeats in this novel that made you think of other stories as you read it?

K:  Oh, great question. K:  Oh shit, you know what. S: Hit me. K: We've got a Book Club classic coming at you. K: The Knife of Never Letting Go, by our mutual bastard Patrick Ness. S: You know, I was thinking about More Than This. But mostly because of how much I hated it. K: TKNLG's big theme revolves around like, what murder does to you and what it feels like to do an unspeakable act that you can't retract or replace. Revenge and anger become a part of you and you've got to deal with that. K:  And it's been ages since I read it, but I feel like that makes a lot of sense for this book. Todd and Talltail both spend a book with things being taken from them and wrongs being done to them, and it makes them so angry and hurt and desperate that eventually they go "Okay, yeah, murder would be a solution here." And when it comes down to it they both get to make that choice, of what they want to put out into the world and what kind of man they want to be. S:  I like that. I haven't read it myself, but I can definitely see how those themes talk to one another. S: I don't think there's a particular story I can pinpoint that is similar to this one, but I can think of stories that echo what I'd like this story to have leaned into more. S: Being about forgiveness and family trauma, it reminds me both of The Goblin Emperor and also the How To Train Your Dragon films? Especially the first film, I think. That whole undercurrent of absent mother, disdainful and frustrated father, queer-coded and different kid feels very present in Tallstar's Revenge. S: However, I think HTTYD does that a lot better than this book, by a considerable length.

7. Did this novel (or the experience of reading it) change your perspective on anything, either within the world of Warriors or outside it? What do you think about differently now?

 K: Hm. I think it's certainly limited my excitement on reading any future Super Editions books. They all seem to be just the same garbage plot wrapped with slightly different bows, and that's both disappointing and relieving. S: I feel you on that. S: I think for me, the single biggest shift is that it's changed how I think of Tallstar. For me, he was probably my favourite leader--or one of my favourites--growing up reading the books, and he came across often as wise and relaxed, and then made that final defining mistake. S: Having come back and read this, I feel that the book stripped a lot from the character in a way that wasn't constructive. I don't feel like I know him better, but I do feel like I respect him less. And I think that's a monumental failure of a prequel. K: Tallstar had such a specific presence in the original series, and this book just really takes a lot of that away and replaces it with something worse. S: It does. And that's disheartening to me. S:  Of course I can and will kill the author myself and take my place on the throne of canon, but you can't unknow details of a character. So that does change things. I don't have the same fondness for Talltail, now that I know he spent so much time being unadmirable and stupid and boring. S:  I recognise that your twenties is like that for most people, but like. Doesn't mean it's worthy of a narrative. S:  Kind of makes me think of Albus Dumbledore, to swing back around to Joke Rowling? S: Like, despite and sometimes because of how phenomenally jank and flawed that magnificent man is, I love Albus Dumbledore. I always have, ever since I was first listening to the tapes. And part of that is knowing his past--knowing that he struggled figuring out what was right, knowing that he fell in love very young with someone whose ideology became incompatible with his core beliefs and virtues. But I think you can allude to past mistakes and show growth without having to delve into it, if that makes sense. S: If I read about teen Dumbledore being like "hmm maybe wizard supremacy is good" for several chapters, there's a strong possibility that would stain all my readings of him into the future. I can know he did something, without needing a front-row seat. K: Yeah. S: And I feel like the crux failure of Erin Hunter's super editions is they don't have the delicacy or sense needed to know what needs to be told and what needs to be shown. S: Because sometimes, showing is worse. K: Being shown like, all of this, was worse than not. S: Nearly all of this book could have been summary.

8. Last week, we talked about predicted endings for the novel. In light of that, how do you feel about the ending? Was your prediction correct–and do you feel that reflects well on the narrative, or poorly? (i.e., is it good that you could guess, or are you disappointed by the result?) How important is it for an ending to be “unguessable”?

K:  We hit the nail on the head and I am not surprised at all. S:  I would say we were basically correct, but it brought me no joy. K:  Yeah, it felt bad to read and go "I already knew this but sure, disappoint me with what you have to say." S: That's not to say I would have been overjoyed if there had been some bizarre twist, because I don't think twists or shock endings are inherently good storytelling. K:  They're not. They've gotta be handled well to make me feel like, "Fuck yes, this is wack and I want more" K:  And like, you can predict an ending and still have it be satisfying! K:  That's just called successful foreshadowing. K:  But what we did was like. Just have the sad, knowledgable wherewithal to know exactly what kind of inane and soulless bullshit Erin would pull. It's not foreshadowing if it's just "you're a bad writer and you're going to reach for the easiest tropes to tie up your story without any thought about what makes it good" S: As a general rule, I think you should be able to predict endings based on the tone and emotional themes of the story. For instance, a story that starts with someone getting thrown out of their house by their unloving family should, ideally, rectify that by ending with that person having either found a new loving family and/or revenging on the previous bad family. Sometimes both! S: If you're going to start an arc, you should finish it in a satisfying place. If you start with a murder being discovered, you should have a denouement at the end. S: So... I guess Erin Hunter's ending is... fine, in that light? S: Their narrative is honestly very muddled, so it's not super easy to actually see what the through-line of the story is. The story starts with a prophecy about Talltail leaving, so really it should end with his triumphant, enlightened return... but then it keeps going. K: It just drags on and so much of it feels weightless. S:  It feels like they're juggling a lot of themes and ideas, but they're not really doing any of it well enough to be impressive. While I'm reading, there's always this deep uncomfortable sense of anything could be dropped at any minute. A good performer of any kind makes you feel safe in their hands, not lowkey on edge. S: It's like watching amateur stand-up.

9. In your opinion, what is the most important moment or event in this final chunk of story, and why?

 K:  I guess the cliche answer would be to say "Tallstar choosing to return to Windclan", but like. I think that really is the most important part of all this. S:  I think it's actually choosing not to kill Sparrow. K:  Oh, I mean. Okay that's fair lmao S:  Because I think he probably could have gone back after he killed Sparrow and everyone still would have been basically fine about it. It didn't seem like anyone cared enough to try to stop him leaving, and frankly the clans as Erin Hunter writes them are mad blasé about murder. S:  But I think in order for Talltail to retain like, some moral worth as a character, it was vital (if super inevitable) for him to not kill Sparrow. K:  Absolutely. K:  Can you imagine if he had, though. K:  Like, if he'd pushed Sparrow off the ledge and went "sick" and then Sandgorse's ghost showed up to razz him with airhorns like 'YOU IDIOT SON, THAT WAS THE WRONG CHOICE, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD DISAPPOINT ME AGAIN' S: Om.  S:  [that one video of the guy screaming above the mountains] S:  That's Starclan whenever the living make a bad decision.

Bonus question: choose a different character from Tallstar’s Revenge and briefly imagine what this story would be if they were the protagonist instead.

K: Hm. I'm torn. Barkface, or maybe Reena, would be interesting to me. S:  I think Reena's experience would be super interesting. K:  I think you could tell a really interesting narrative with her. S:  I'm sort of thinking Shrewclaw? Like, he's such a dick and there's very little about him that's redeemable, but like. This is also true of Talltail for a lot of the book. S: And I guess an external clan perspective of Talltail from someone who actively dislikes him could be kind of interesting! It'd definitely be a totally new counterpoint. K:  Yeah! Especially given that they end up kind of being... foils? A little? I think it could be super neat to like, see Shrewclaw reprimand Talltail for being so focused on revenge, and then suddenly becoming revenge-minded himself and then having to grapple with that hypocrisy. K:  Either by going "My feelings are different, I'm not like you," or going "oh shit oh fuck we're the same and now i feel all sorts of ways about it" S:  I think the low-hanging fruit for why Shrewclaw is such a prick to Talltail is just plain homophobia, you know? But that's so boring, so I'd definitely want to tap into like, the inner world of Shrewclaw and swing it a different way. S: See Talltail through his eyes, emphasising everything Shrewclaw doesn't like about himself. Which becomes so tasty when you later think about Mudclaw doing something similar. S:  Shrewclaw has to grow from hate and jealousy to grudging respect and kinship within the clan, and then Mudclaw grows from outright respect to total adoration. It's an interesting intergenerational trajectory.

Final notes.

S: God, can we rewind a moment to the whole Sparrow bullshit. K:  Oh 100%. S:  Talltail obsesses over this for like, at least twenty chapters. And then two lines of dialogue and he's like, "I'm cured, my dad was a hero the whole time." S:  “It’s what Sandgorse would do.” Now that the rage had gone, Talltail wondered how he could ever have thought of killing Sparrow. Had grief taken away all his faith in the warrior code?” MY rage is still right here. K:  Literally one of my notes is: K:  Talltail straight up telling him he’s here to kill him like a coward. Like not that I WANT him to be a murderer, but god damn, just do it! K:  If you're gonna spend an entire fucking book yelling about how badly you wanna kill a guy then just! Don't make me wait this goddamn long! Do it!! K:  And yeah, just. Redeeming Sandgorse. BLeughghelfuf

S:  Okay, another point of rage: Talltail literally dissolves the goodwill between the travellers and the clan. K:  Y E A H S:  Like, years of peaceful gathering, destroyed. S:  Note: "This dude literally just ended years of peace over his petty revenge quest" K:  I do find it hilarious though that Talltail goes "Hey we should leave," Reena goes "Hm?? No you dont?" and then Sparrow comes in with the most uncomfortable, exhausted expression saying "No He's Right They Really Should Be Going And Should Never Come Back Thanks," S: I'm also so pissed that when Talltail showed up, the travellers were like, “Warriors and kittypets don’t belong with rogues” AND YET you stay for a whole month or more in clan territory? What ripe fuckery is this. K: YEAH IT MADE NO SENSE S: Everyone's just ambiguously racist enough to use it as an excuse whenever they don't want to do something.

S: Also: we called it re: Reena, although the story was actually less obnoxious than I was expecting. S: “There was sympathy in the she-cat’s mew, and Talltail suddenly wondered if Reena had been hoping that Talltail would be her mate: that they’d have kits and travel together. Had she started to imagine a whole new life ahead of them?” Ew.  K:  i was gonna say K:  We really did call it. S: Way to project, Talltail. S: "I guess she's in love with me and I'm breaking her heart by leaving because of the elaborate future she's imagined of our strong, brave kits and--" calm down, boy, she didn't say any of that. K: Yeah, like. Keep it inside, buddy.   K:  There was a lot of very wild Jake/Talltail shit going on but I'm going to drop this from my notes first before dipping into the bits I did like: K: Jake saying “oh that drive to kill wasn’t REALLY you” is VERY “what if I date this unhinged maniac man so I can change him and make him better because I know who he is deep down” and that is VERY unsexy of you, Erins, K:  Jake... my boy.... S: Yeah.  S:  I'm just going to keep pointing at the advice I gave him in previous Book Clubs. Respect yourself, king. K:  I did briefly look at the disastrous mini-comic at the end of the PDF and I do love that he's canonically a chubby king, though. S:  We do love that. A cuddly boy. K:  He's shaped like a friend! S:  But yeah, if these cats were people, Talltail is some skinny closeted runaway with some serious esteem issues and a kind of volatile and disrespectful pattern of behaviour. S:  And Jake is the cute bi boy next door with a supportive dad with apparently a solid sense of self and value, and I find that kind of a jank combination? It feels like it'll either lend itself to basically "adopt a stray" style "fixing" someone else, which isn't a great relationship dynamic, or Talltail dragging Jake into his mess and drama. And it's just difficult for me to imagine what Jake sees in Talltail. S:  If the relationship was just a bit more balanced--Talltail bringing something of value to Jake beyond "adventure"--I could believe it more. K:  Meanwhile, if Talltail retained his "soft, shy poet boy who's just looking for a place to be accepted and flourish" attitude... S: YES 

S:  I got so mad when Talltail's like, "I'm going to kill a guy," and Jake was like, "you can't!" and Talltail's like, "if I was back home, I would have probably already killed by someone by now," and Jake's like, "yeah but that's different, warriors killing each other for Survival is fine." K:  IT ISN'T S: And I'm like, whoa, slow down, I want to talk philosophy right here right now. S: It's a genuinely fascinating conversation that I want canon to have a lot more, but they just... glance over it.

S:  Pivot for a moment to the gay part of Jake/Talltail: I was surprised by exactly how heavily they implied it. K:  Me too!!! S:  I thought it'd be a lot less than there was, and a lot more oblique. So that was a pleasant (? is any part of this pleasant?) surprise. K:  And in the final comic they say that Tallstar sees Firestar like the son he would have had (with Jake).  Which. Is gay. S:  Mad huge gay, for sure. K:  Their final "oh, what if I stay with you!" parting scene was wild to read. And on Tallstar specifying that Jake is someone he loves at the very end. Like hot damn S:  But I Lost My Whole Mind. Because of one line. I read it and involuntarily galaxy-brained with the power of song. I can't find the full quote right now BUT it was basically Talltail and Jake talking right before Talltail leaves to return to the clan. S: And Jake's like, "you know what you have to do. Listen to your heart.” K: YES S: And I was HIT BY A TRUCK S: by this song S: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCC_b5WHLX0 K:  OH FUCK YES S:  Which honestly is so good, and also hilarious, because I have fond gay memories of this song from my teen years. S:  So I know we were saying the very long slow lame end was boring and anticlimactic, but there were a few things that did in fact spark joy.  One was--despite his name and the rampant ableism--Deadkit. K:  YES K:  I have in my notes: K: "I would die for Deadkit." and then "Apparently Deadkit would die for me" S: Hopkit sat up straight, quivering with effort. “Still as a stone, right you are!” he mewed. “Barkface, carry on!” Bless. S: MY SON S: MY BOY K;  And Talltail finally being like? Not an asshole, and treating him well and encouraging him.  He really did feel like he was emulating Dawnstripe in a wholesome way. S:  I KNOW. S:  It honestly made me feel so good about the story I've planned out, but I can talk about that after. S: I also loved that Talltail swam. <3 K: Yes.  S: I was there just elated, thinking about Mudclaw's final moments. And how this story actually ties in so well with that one. That's nothing really to do with Erin Hunter, but it was nice for me. It made the two feel resonant and in conversation with each other in a way I truly hadn't expected. K:  Oh fuck also, two extra from the notes K:  "Talltail’s heart began to race. “I can’t go home!” He stared in panic at Jake. “They won’t want me! I broke the warrior code when I left my Clan. They’ll drive me away again!” — On the one hand: I understand that his fear of being driven away/not being accepted stems from like, 90% of the interactions in this book. But also: THEY LET YOU LEAVE, everyone agreed! Nobody drove you out!" S: Talltail: "I'll go if I must, I understand, you need me to leave--" The rest of the clan: "uhh dude you said you wanted to go." S: Makes me think of people who get really pissed when they're like "I said I'm fine, why didn't you ask me more about how I was feeling because I was clearly Not Fine and Lying to you." S:  And it's like... I trusted you to tell me the truth. Don't play stupid games. K: Yeah! Like, if you want to be consoled or helped, be honest! I can't read your mind!

S: Palebird is just a full on mess in this book, huh? And it's really unsatisfactorily handled.  S: Sandgorse gets obsessed over for... the entire book. Palebird, equally bad parent, doesn't really get any kind of meaningful resolution with Talltail. K:  I misread when Talltail first brings the kids into camp, and fully thought that Palebird recognized Talltail and chose to ignore him in favour of her kits. That sadly isn't actually far off from what happens when she does recognize him. K:   He just goes "oh she died and in my leader ceremony she makes me feel like she always loved me and i never should have doubted her" S: I was so furious that her bit was like "a mother's love for her kits" and he's like, oh I can't believe how stupid I was for doubting her. S: She abused you, dude. S:  Being like, "lol jk" after she's dead counts for Nothing. K: It’s awful.  S: "I always loved you," said Palebird. "I just never wanted to interact with you at all when I was alive and I attached all my grief and trauma to your existence, which made it impossible to enjoy time around you, and I never even bothered to get help for myself or you, and I was happiest when you weren't in my life and I could focus on my other family. So I guess I didn't actually love you. I just felt like I probably should have, but oh well." S: I am as angry about her as I am about Sandgorse. K:   Yeah, she just somehow gets a free pass because "that's just how moms are!" -Erin S:  "Mums can say they love you and you have to believe them." K:  What kind of mother did you have/are you to your kids, @the Erins collective. I want to know. S: I KNOW K: Like, please answer for science. K:  I KNOW WE'VE ROASTED SANDGORSE THIS ENTIRE TIME BUT K:  THE NOTES S:  GET HIM S:  GET HIS ARSE K:  “I give you this life for forgiveness. No death need ever be avenged. Forgiveness brings peace far more surely than vengeance.” Talltail felt his ruffled fur smooth, his claws retract into his pads, his breath come steadily. Mercy was his, and always would be. “I’m sorry you had to learn the hard way, Tallstar,” Sandgorse meowed. — HAVE YOU EVER WANTED TO MURDER A FICTIONAL CAT S:  YES YES YES YES S:  I was literally about to grab the same note. K:  "im sorry you had to learn the hard way" WHOSE FUCKING FAULT WAS THAT S:  “I give you this life for forgiveness. No death need ever be avenged. Forgiveness brings peace far more surely than vengeance.” It is a fatal mistake to conflate forgiveness with pacifism. K:  It's just. K:  Like I knew it was going to be awful, I knew this moment was going to happen, but just to see it and see the phrasing. K:  "I'm sorry you had to learn the hard way" is just the ultimate slap in the face. You abused and abandoned and neglected this kid. You did this. You were a ghost for 70% of the book and could have told your son that you "died a hero" and stopped him from being an absolute asshole. YOU DID THIS. S:  What peeves me is that I personally believe forgiveness is something you have to do for yourself, and not for other people. A lot of the time, bad people in your life won't ask for your forgiveness and don't deserve it. K: Yes!  Forgivesness isn't earned, forgivesness is given. K:  It's up to you to give people that forgiveness on your own terms, whenever and however you choose. And if you go "I'm not giving this to you" you don't have to! It's for you! It's your choice! S: But all your anger and hate and misery inside will burn you out like acid, so sometimes you need to go, "you're never going to earn my forgiveness, but I am choosing to forgive what you did so I can move on with my life and grow." S: It's why "forgive but don't forget" is a good thing to remember. You can let go of self-harmful anger without ever losing the lesson that person taught you, which was stay the hell away from people like that. S: That's the conversation I want to see happen around forgiveness in this story. K:  Talltail deserves so much better than any of the story we were given. K:  And like. Forgiveness through that specific lens is so compelling. S:  I know. It's something I'm deeply invested and interested in.  K:  It's so engaging, and relatable! It's messy and nuanced and full of a lot of good shit. S:  Yeah, like, and what happens when the person you resent or distrust tries to make efforts to atone, but they always fall a little short, or don't grow the way you need them to?  How do you forgive that, but still choose to walk away, knowing that in their narrative, you're the bad guy? K:  It's hard.  Knowing that they see you as the bad guy is like, the fucking toughest.  s:  It's extremely hard and I think there's so much space in this story for that exploration. K:  It makes it so easy to want to go back in for seconds and explain yourself to try and get them to understand you, even when you know that like, they're not going to and never will.  And it'll just hurt you more to try than to move on and be a better you for it. S: And being able to forgive yourself is I think a massive underrated lesson. K: Yes! It's beyond hard to try and be gentle with yourself and have compassion for yourself sometimes, especially regarding a messy scenario like these. S: I mean, all of this is way out of Erin Hunter's range, but like, ugh. What could have been. K: Yeah, absolutely. K:  Also I'm always here for young upset queer kids growing up to become Better & Cooler & Sexier than you, so don't try any shit dad, S: Anyway! That's it! We did it! K:  Yeah! S:  Honestly this is such a dumb book but it always feels like an accomplishment to get through another Book Club with you. K:  I agree. K: <3 S: <3

[angeltrapz]

for the “give me a character” meme! Eric, Adam, William, Mallick, Strahm, Rigg!!!!

YESS thank u!!!!

Eric:

How I feel about this character: That's my boy!!! <33

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Uuuu okay. Adam, obviously, but concerning the SAW polycule: Adam, Art, Lawrence, William, & Mallick!!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Him & Rigg!!! That's his best friend!!! + he and Gibson in the Eric Lives AU!! (Gibson IS dating his best friend + recognizes that he's made the effort to change <3)

My unpopular opinion about this character: You Understand This but the idea that he's irredeemable/deserved to die is complete and utter bullshit. This post that you made perfectly describes my feelings on that!!

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: Firstly that he. Y'know. Didn't die. But I would have loved to see any of his interactions with Hoffman? Obviously they knew each other + I like to think they have since they were in academy together, so there's gotta be some sort of history there, y'know?? I feel like he definitely cared about Eric so I would've been very interested to see more regarding that relationship! + one more big one: I wish he knew/was at least made aware of the fact that Daniel was ALIVE and okay. It kills me thinking abt how this man died not knowing if his child made it out.

Adam:

How I feel about this character: I loooove him he deserved better. I relate pretty heavily to him.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Hehe. Lawrence obviously!! Chainshipping is a HUGE comfort ship for me. BUT! Regarding the SAW polycule: Lawrence, Eric, William, Gibson, & Mallick!! + when concerning that alternative canon continuity we've been talking abt, Strahm. But only in that circumstance lol,,

My non-romantic OTP for this character: MANDY!!! In any AU where she's either not a disciple or abandoned her apprenticeship, I firmly believe that he and Amanda would be best friends. Mean gay/lesbian solidarity siblings who would fight tooth and nail for each other + who get each other on a level that not many others can. Pamela also!! Along w Mandy I like to think they talk about their experiences being trans a lot + just bitching w each other lol.

My unpopular opinion about this character: IDK how unpopular this actually is but I 100% believe that Adam would never become a disciple in any capacity, ESP not of his own accord. I genuinely think he'd rather die. That's just not something I can see him doing in any circumstance.

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: I wish someone had gotten him out of the bathroom :( And in an AU where he lives I hope someone tells him what a bastard Zep was!! No one made that dude hold a gun to Diana's head and listen to her heartbeat what the FUCK was that!!

William:

How I feel about this character: He's such a sweetheart I love him,, <33

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Lawrence & Adam <3 in the polycule though this includes Eric & Mallick!!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: He and Pamela obviously!! His sister is his best friend and they're there for each other 100%.

My unpopular opinion about this character: Much like Eric I don't think he deserved to die/that he's completely irredeemable... he fights so hard to save everyone and is utterly devastated when he can't. He's willing to hurt himself to save others (nearly dislocating his shoulders trying to keep both Addy and Allen, burning himself with the steam for Debbie, etc.) and it's like. John is always talking about how it can't be personal but it seems pretty fucking personal here!

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: The fact that nobody saw how hard he fought for his coworkers + the sacrifices he made for them upsets me to no end. That was intentional. John didn't want Tara + Brent (or Pamela for that matter!) to see him as human and that fucking bothers me!! So basically I just wish that they could've seen it via camera like literally almost every trap victim gets in some capacity!!

Mallick:

How I feel about this character: Yet another character I relate to wayyy too much <33 I love him...

All the people I ship romantically with this character: BRIT!!! + concerning the SAW polycule: Adam, Eric, William, & Lawrence!! (Art maybe too,,)

My non-romantic OTP for this character: I like to think he and Laura would've gotten along actually? I feel like that would be a good, healthy friendship. And I do like the idea of he and Brit like this too!! Other than that maybe Mandy? I feel like they could relate to each other a little bit, help each other when they're feeling brainweird,, (Mallick n Mandy: havers of Symptoms Disorder <3)

My unpopular opinion about this character: Again I don't know if it's unpopular, persay, but uh. I don't think the Mallick we meet in V would willingly sit and listen to Bobby Dagen in 3D. He'd hate that dude. My take on it is that Brit didn't survive V (although I think read somewhere that the crew confirmed she survived?) and that's why he was there: because he'd lost the one true connection he'd made in god knows how long. That's rlly the only way I see him sitting thru Dagen's bullshit lmao.

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: I wanted him to see Brit again,, and I just wanted to see him more in general tbh, esp because he makes a reappearance where so many prior Jigsaw survivors do not. I would've liked to see him interact with Simone given that they both lost a limb/nearly a limb (in Mallick's case). This is related to that, but I also wish the evidence of the 10 Pints trap wasn't just. A tiny scar? I HC that it took his whole hand, so.

Strahm:

How I feel about this character: Ohhh my beloved. Why didn't they give you a better narrative it would've been SO interesting. I love you though <3

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Honestly? Still super fond of Gibson/Strahm in a scenario where things are different,, I've written quite a bit abt them and kinda want to again but if I do it'll probably be. Not for a while + VASTLY different. but recent additions have been Hoffman (I used to. not understand Stroffman whatsoever. now I Get It) and Adam!!

My non-romantic OTP for this character: PEREZ!!! I've always thought of them as best friends since I first saw IV, and I do think he genuinely cared about her - quite a lot, actually, esp given how devastated he was when she was injured. They hang out at each other's apartments all the time + get coffee regularly. I love them.

My unpopular opinion about this character: I don't think he's a dumbass?? I don't know if that's unpopular. I think that he's IMPULSIVE and that it gets him into trouble, but Strahm has always struck me as incredibly intelligent + has a good moral compass for the most part?? I mean, he figured out there was a second apprentice (second as far as he knows, anyway) helping with traps just by examining Kerry's crime scene. I think he's VERY smart. He just acts quickly + sometimes that means there's not much planning for if things go south. (I DO agree that showing up to the packing plant w/out backup was dumb though,, doesn't mean he DESERVED the Water Cube but y'know)

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: It's not really mentioned if he does in canon, but I wish he'd been made aware of the fact that Perez was alive,, it bothers me that he might've died not knowing she was okay. The other thing is that I wish he'd survived V!!! I think it would've been WAY more narratively satisfying for him to kinda follow in Tapp's footsteps as a vigilante Jigsaw hunter. (That's why I love yr takes on him so much!!)

Rigg:

How I feel about this character: He has such a big heart. He cares so so much. I wish ppl talked about him more :(

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Gibson!!! And uhh Hoffman, but they're exes,, but! In a scenario I'm kind of going over in my head, maaaybe Adam... the basics though is that he searches the Nerve Gas House independently and somehow finds the Bathroom following II, and He is the one to rescue Adam. Very tentative abt that one though bc I'm still working it out lol. (Possibly Eric/Adam/Rigg???)

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Eric!!! His best friend <3 I think he's also pretty close with Kerry, though I think he hangs out w her independent of Eric given,, the messy ex situation. I think he probably got along well with Fisk too!! OH and I think he and Sing would've been good friends as well. The chaos of a Rigg/Gibson/Sing friend trio...

My unpopular opinion about this character: Mmm I don't know that I have one? Other than maybe like. I understood why he went through the door. He knew Eric was on the other side; he just didn't know the circumstances or what would happen if he went through. All he knew was that he was that much closer to someone he's been trying to find/rescue for MONTHS + someone he cares for deeply. Of COURSE he went through. He breaks my heart ugh,,,

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character in canon: I wish he hadn't even been tested!!!! His one flaw was that he cared about ppl and somehow John saw that as something he needed to fix!!! Like yes I do agree that it was eating away at him and the obsession might've been unhealthy, but that's two of his closest friends dude!! I don't think he deserved to be tested for that. I don't. He just wanted to help ppl and keep them safe. I absolutely despise how Rigg was treated dkjflkdf!!!!

[msbluebell]

I see plenty of posts about Blue Lions eagerly waiting for the Dimileth shoe to drop. But I raise you this: Friendly Neighborhood Shipper Gatekeeper.

That’s right, our friend the Friendly Gatekeeper is the ultimate Dimileth shipper.

Gatekeeper learned early on how to read Byleth’s stoic face, and has been able to tell even the tiniest details in their mood, I’m talking “Oh no! Professor’s eyebrows are .02% lower than before! The Professor must be super upset about something!”

Gatekeeper is a Byleth savant! He speaks Byleth and is the a professional Byleth translator. He got his degree in five minutes because that’s all it took after meeting Byleth for him to decide that they’re obviously #BFFs5Ever

So OF COURSE he’s going to notice if the Professor is slowly catching feelings for anyone. He probably realizes even before Byleth and he doesn’t have even half the context. But, *gasp*, it’s forbidden. A teacher and their student? Oh noooooo, it was never meant to BE! 

Note he probably doesn’t even know WHO Byleth has feelings for because he never leaves that dumb gate. He just knows that his bestest friend is going through FORBIDDEN LOVE! (He refuses to believe they’re in love with someone in faculty because he would have heard rumors by now).

This is cause for drastic action!

Gatekeeper takes a day off.

Yes! A day off from guarding the gate!

This is a matter of life and death! His best friend needs him Goddess damn it all! He needs to do reconnaissance! For the professor! He needs to find the fiend that stole their heart and find a flaw in them so Byleth can move on!

Note that Byleth doesn’t even realize they’re catching feelings yet.

So Gatekeeper spends the whole day spying, looking for the despicable scum that wooed their best friend with their willy willy seductive ways. He’s stalking the professor the whole day and being totally obvious about it. Sorry Gatekeeper, everyone knows you’re hiding behind that bush. Byleth is just a good friend and not letting anyone call you out.

The Blue Lions all think the Gatekeeper is stalking Byleth. Felix offers to duel him. Ingrid just advises that Byleth report him to Seteth. Byleth, knowing that’s their bro, just tells the students it’s no concern and goes to see what the heck is going on. To which Gatekeeper, caught, does the only thing a man in his position can do and bursts out the whole truth through his tears. Bawling about how he knows about this seductive seducer that been trying to claim their heart with their fiendish ways, and how he was worried, and he wanted to make sure nothing happened to the professor because it’s his duty as their BFF to make sure that their heart remains unbroken.

The Blue Lions are...flabbergasted to say the least.

Then it’s full on panic mode because WHAT? What seductive seducer? Who is trying to steal Byleth’s heart?

And Gatekeeper is all like, “That’s what I was trying to find out!”

And now Gatekeeper has a class of baby lions basically spun into a panic thinking that there’s another Sylvain going around trying to seduce Byleth, only they’re a fiend out to purposely break their heart or something.

They’re pretty livid about the idea.

Gatekeeper is escorted out of the class by a mildly confused Byleth who promises to spend the day “mending their broken heart” with the Gatekeeper, leaving behind a very confused class, a Sylvain who wants to snoop because “what the fuck”, and a mildly jealous Dimitri. The incident isn’t forgotten, per se, but it’s brushed off.

Cut to five years later.

By now Gatekeeper is much more protective of their friend, what with them having gone missing for five years. But he’s still able to read them like a book, and it’s only gotten easier with time and their growing emotions. 

So it’s pretty easy to tell they’re head over heels.

He just doesn’t know with who.

But his friend is SAD.

SAD!

Who would dare make them SAD!!!!!!?!?!

It’s sin!

Be can’t take a day off to stop guarding like he used to, but he dang well keeps an eye open! He’s got them peeled, he’s watching everyone, he’s going to catch this fiendish fiend!

But whoever it is never shows up at the front gate with the professor. He just can’t seem to find them in the same room with them any other time either. And the professor is getting sadder and sadder, and even everything going well and having nothing to report is making them happy. 

So Gatekeeper does the only thing he can.

He takes it upon himself to find someone else for the professor!

Now, love doesn’t just go away. It’s going to take some time to mend a broken heart, plant some seeds of romance, but he’s going to do it! In the name of friendship!

So he goes to the one person he thinks is as much Byleth’s friend as he is.

The Prince!

The professor spends a lot of time with him! And they’re always talking about them, and...and...

Oh.

Wow.

Gatekeeper is floored. Now it all makes sense! So much sense! The prince had been grumpy for months before that whole thing where he got better! Professor was always mentioning him! And..and..

Interrogation time!

So Gatekeeper, not a strong or powerful man, but filled with enough determination to fuel a Smash Competition, marches up to the Prince of Faerghus and just stares at him.

Poor Dimitri is so confused. He’s wondering what he did to piss off this guy, and if he accidentally killed his brother or something. He’s already moving to apologize, but Gatekeeper is already on him. Demanding to know his favorite foods, and color, and what does he finds romantic, and how he feels about dogs.

Dimitri is so fucking tired.

He’s so confused, but he just rolls with it because he’s newly on the atonement train and doesn’t wanna be an asshole, and figures this is just someone’s weird way of making sure he wasn’t going to kill everyone in the room and then himself.

Wanting to know his ideal date is strange though.

The convo actually takes a surprisingly heartwarming turn soon after though, when both men end up talking about Byleth and how much they mean to the both of them. Gatekeeper goes on about how Byleth is his best friend, and makes days guarding the gate seem like the most important job in the world, and Dimitri goes on about how without Byleth he’d still be lost. And suddenly they’re bonding over small things too, like chamomile tea, and lances, and fond memories they have of Garreg Mach. And, suddenly, Dimitri and Gatekeeper both have a new friend.

And Gatekeeper, after so long of Byleth friendship, has learned to notice when people are #Feeling and not noticing, and it’s pretty easy by the way Dimitri smiles when he says the professor’s name, and how he looks when he talks about them, and that tiny tiny smile that he’s pretty head over heels himself.

Gatekeeper quickly goes from over protective friend to rabid shipping fangirl watching their OTP on the fast track to becoming canon. He might squeal a bit when he gets back to his bunk that night. Every second of his life the next day is consumed by the mighty need to watch these two get married yesterday please.

His poor shipping heart can’t take it.

His eyes are on them whenever they walk by. He has to physically refrain from dying and mentioning how much they should kiss. He’s dying. Someone help this man.

He cries when they announce their engagement. 

He gets to guard the wedding.

[kevindayprotectionsquad]

as someone who loves neil and andrew i do not hate aaron at all i'm new to the fandom and only just got the books. i'm still on the first book. but why do so many people hate aaron? all the characters have their flaws all the characters have their good parts that's what make them all human. so i guess what i'm asking is why does aaron get so much hate? it seems unjustified and cruel. no ones perfect. thanks for reading all this! have a good weekend

I’m going to try to answer this without being too controversial, and without being too spoilery since you haven’t read the entire series. This is something that has low key bothered me about the aftg fandom for a while, and sometimes I scream into the void about it. These are just some observations and opinions I’ve made over time. This is by no means directed towards any certain person or blog, y’all are obviously allowed to think and process the books however y’all want. That’s what makes books so fun.

Don’t get me wrong, I also love Andrew and Neil. I was cheering them on when I read the series the first time, and I loved catching little hints I missed the first time when I reread. I enjoy the majority of the content about them on here. I think they’re story is interesting. However, that doesn’t mean I excuse or condone some of their actions. I’ll get deeper into that in a second.

The reason I think people dislike/hate Aaron so much is because of two canon things that I’ve connected to what people are saying about Aaron. One being his reactions to Nicky at times, and two being a scene in the Kings Men (I’ll try to be as spoiler free for you since you haven’t gotten to it yet). These get him labeled and reduced down to a homophobic asshole. Here’s where I think it’s gets controversial. I, personally (meaning if you disagree, that’s fine, I totally understand and see your point), don’t think Aaron is homophobic. Here’s why : Almost immediately into meeting Nicky, it’s obvious he’s meant to be the flamboyant gay stereotype. He’s thirsting all over Neil, and making honestly inappropriate comments to and about Neil. Every time he does, Aaron has something to say like, “can you not be so disgusting”. In my mind, that’s a pretty valid thing to say, and not homophobic. Nicky is not only making Neil uncomfortable, but literally everyone else as well. Nicky is Aaron’s cousin, so I’m sure he feels a little more comfortable calling him out on his bullshit than if it was someone else. I think he would be disgusted by this display no matter what. The way I understand Aaron is that he keeps his romantic life on the down low. Not just from his teammates and family, but from everyone. He just doesn’t strike me as the one comfortable with excessive PDA. Secondly, the one I see brought up the most, and one I think is a little misunderstood, is the scene in the Kings Men (again, trying to be as vague as possible, but it may get a little spoilery) where Aaron confronts Neil. I want to say that I totally and completely understand why people don’t like this scene, and don’t like Aaron because of this scene. The reason why I think it’s misunderstood, is because it’s a very, very emotionally charged conversation. Aaron says some harsh things to Neil that are intended to be homophobic and hurtful, but I think Aaron did that on purpose to get a rise out of Neil, and figure out his true intentions were with Andrew. Aaron and Andrews relationship is so fragile as is, and then Neil is thrown into the mix messing it up more. So, Aaron rightfully doesn’t trust him. Aaron wants to protect Andrew from Neil, because in Aaron’s head, Neil is all kinds of danger. Another reason I think this, is because of Aaron’s up bringing. He didn’t have the best role models, and wasn’t taught to appropriately convey his feelings without saying hurtful things. I think this scene gets used against Aaron the most, because he says these harsh things, but the why he he said it is lost. Again, it was a super emotional conversation for him, and when tempers flair, things get said that might not be the most appropriate. That doesn’t just go for Aaron, but for literally everyone. I know I have said some hurtful things when upset, but that doesn’t make me a terrible, horrible person. I was just upset, and said whatever I could that would get a rise out of the person. And I really think that’s the case here. Another thing I’ve sort of notice about how the fandom perceives Aaron, is that he lacks sympathy or isn’t very understanding of Neil’s situation or of Neil and Andrews relationship. Aaron does not like Neil. Like at all. Which is fair. I wouldn’t either if I was in his shoes. Neil drags the entire team through some shit, and Aaron is there for it. He wants the truth of the situation, so they can figure out a solution as a team. When Neil is injured, Aaron flinches and is appalled by them. He might not out right sympathize for Neil, but he is human, and his teammate went through some shit, and he can understand and feel bad for Neil in that way. As for Neil and Andrew, Aaron’s not the biggest fan of. Mostly because he doesn’t trust who Neil is. Neil is a liar and a runaway, who is hard to trust, and is getting with his brother. So of course he’s not the biggest fan of him. Are we always fond of our siblings SOs??? No! I think people focus too much on Neil being a dude vs. Neil being a lying asshole when it comes to Aaron’s dislike for him.

Another thing that bothers me about the general aftg fandom is that they hate Aaron for being a homophobic asshole (for reasons stated above), but can pardon/forget/downsize Andrews actions. First and foremost being him carrying and pulling knives on people. I carry a knife, but I’ve never pulled it on someone, because THATS NOT NORMAL! That’s terrifying, and should not be normalized. Andrew, more than once, has pulled a knife and/or threatened people he is supposed to be close to, including Neil, Nicky, and (the one that bothers me the most) Kevin. He also says some harsh things to people/teammates, and tries to cause harm to others, all under the disguise of protecting his people. (Not to mention his over all relationship with Kevin.) It’s fine that he’s trying to protect his people, but more often than not he takes it too far. I think these thing sort of get excused, because Andrew is already a perceived psycopath, but that’s not a good enough reason as a fandom to be okay with it. This might be controversial to say, but I think in some cases (not all by any means) is the fetishization of mlm relationships in media. All of Andrews (and Neils for that matter) flaws and dangerous actions get over looked for “uwu andrew is only soft for neil and has to protect him!!!” And the actuality of their relationship gets ignored just because they’re male characters kissing. And since Aaron is a straight character who doesn’t trust/like Neil, he’s immediately bad and the enemy. When in all actuality, I don’t think Aaron has a issue with Andrew being gay, his issue is Andrew choosing Neil.

So, in summary, is Aaron an asshole? Yes. Absolutely. BUT so are Andrew, Neil, Nicky, and Kevin. Is it fair Aaron gets more hate than the others? Not in my opinion!

[scarlet--wiccan]

Subversive! That's the word I was gonna use to describe her in my second ask, but I couldn't remember! There's a thesis on the subject called "Scarlet Witch and the Subversion of Witchcraft" by Jayme Horne. I haven't read it (I was planning to! But I'm a procrastinator, you know)... so I don't know if it's an interesting read or informative or sensitive, but that's what I think. Wanda, the good, fashionable, musicals theater-loving, melodramatic, and heroic Witch. Subversive. I rest my case.

This ask is part of a larger thread on Wanda’s characterization as a witch. I’m posting this section separately as a response to the essay Scarlet Witch and the Subversion of Witchcraft, by Jayme Horne. This is not meant as an attack on the writer or overly aggressive treatment of what appears to be student work, however, a critical response to Horne’s writing is necessary should this piece continue to circulate.

Well, if you haven't read that essay yet, I wouldn't recommend it, but here's a link. Besides being poorly edited, it makes several comic-continuity errors and utilizes a woefully limited pool of historical references. The history of witches, both as figures of cultural imagination, and as real people who have either claimed or been branded with that title, is far too great for a 10-page paper to describe. Historians could write entire books about it, and have. Horne, unfortunately, fails to even summarize that history, instead preferring to construct a shallow representation of a "traditional" witch whose image is mainly inspired by colonial-era Christian fears.

Horne attempts to describe the archetype of the witch in the Western imagination by summarizing stories such as Vasilisa the Beautiful, The Golden Ass, and, of all things, The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Unfortunately, this does not measure up as a comprehensive survey of the Western canon, and in fact overlooks many important legends and folktales which have contributed to the popular image of witches. Horne then proceeds to define historical witches solely through the lens of European and colonial witch-hunts. They fail to acknowledge that the victims of said witch-hunts were rarely, if ever, actual witches, and choose not to examine how fears of witchcraft have at times been motivated by racism and xenophobia-- in fact, they cite a passage which appears to equate the suffering of white women, under patriarchy, with the enslavement and subjugation of Black, Asian, and Jewish people during that time.

Horne apparently wishes to bridge the gap between fictional, cultural images of witches and the real women who those images represent-- in this case, women who are subjected to patriarchal violence. Unfortunately, the fictional characters that they invoke have little bearing on the historical episodes that they reference, which results in a disjointed essay structure, and there's a real breakdown in the lines between fiction and reality. Horne claim that "[Wanda] allows other women, past and present, to use the title “witch” as they please. They can be a good witch, they can be a bad witch. By subverting what it means to be a witch, it breaks down what the patriarchy can control and puts it back in the hands of women." This is ludicrous-- Wanda is not a real person. She cannot "reclaim" anything on behalf of women, especially not in the texts that Horne cites, which were all written by men.

Leaving people of color and non- or pre-Christian cultures out of the picture is a gross oversight, and I'm deeply affronted that Horne chose not to comment on the role of antisemitism and antiromanyism in witch stereotypes, or speak on the historic killings Jewish and Roma people which resemble the witch-hunts they're so fond of. Rather than acknowledge that her role as a witch intersects with her representation as a Jewish Romnji, they are analyzing Wanda through a strictly Christian lens and positioning her within Christian, colonial dichotomies:

"...the witch was seen as an anti-mother figure, the opposite of the Virgin Mary. Where the Virgin was without sex, the witch was with. Where the Virgin is with child, the witch eats children. These ideas were enforced [by] images of witches and often made women who were seen as socially deviant to be in danger of being accused of witchcraft. If we accept that witch hunts were a tool used to oppress and control women [...] than [sic] seeing Scarlet Witch was [sic] a witch who is a mother, wife, superhero and ex-villain, [a] woman who cleans up her own messes and continues to strive to save the world, than [sic] we can see how she subverts traditional witches and then by reclaiming the title.[sic]"

Yes, that was an incomplete sentence, and yes, there are that many grammatical errors.

I don't think it's appropriate to evaluate Wanda within a Christian paradigm, and I find it appalling that Horne invokes something so close to blood libel as "the witch eats children" when talking about a Jewish character, in an essay which pointedly avoids addressing antisemitism.

I got very steamed while reading this essay. I know that it was an undergrad college assignment, and thus, Horne was probably very young when they wrote it. As such, I'm hesitant to put them on blast, but this thing is published on their website, and it's affiliated with with a college where they apparently received accolades as an Art History student. I am, therefore, very worried that this piece might actually circulate among fans, writers, or even academics who will parrot the flawed, and even harmful information that Horne has put forth.

[trainsinanime]

I think in retrospect, my post bitching about Ladrien was a mistake. It was written out of frustration, in response to a post that I perceived as trying to push Ladrien as morally superior to Marichat. That was probably not the right way to read this post. And even if it had been, the correct response would certainly not have been to vague-tumble (sub-tumble?) about it. I should just delete it.

…or I can double down and post more controversial Miraculous Ladybug shipping hot takes. Which one of these would be more fun? Difficult, difficult…

Adrigami vs Lukanette

I have seen more than one post argue that people prefer Lukanette over Adrigami because of racism, or because Kagami is too pushy, or similar. Now, for the record, I prefer anything above Lukanette and I personally love to ship Adrigaminette (specifically the version where everyone involved is really stupid about it). But I don’t think the moralistic argument can explain all of why Lukanette is so popular.

The problem is that we all love our point of view character Marinette and want good things to happen to her. Yes, there are exceptions in the fandom, but those are a small minority, no matter how loud they are. Adrigami is fun, interesting, engaging, they have both common points and interesting conflicts, and I’d absolutely love to watch a show about it… but Adrigami has one key drawback: It makes Marinette sad. And nobody wants that.

Lukanette, on the other hand, doesn’t make anyone (in universe) sad. Adrien and Kagami are okay with it, and it doesn't seem to affect Marinette's emotional state at all. (Yeah, sorry, not a fan of Luka, but I'll try not to dwell on it because my reasons for not liking him are not interesting, much like he is.)

Lukanette also works really well if you want to be salty about stuff but aren’t willing to go full Batman. The main salt objection to Adrien is that Chat Noir can be too pushy with his romantic feelings, which is arguably true, and that this means he is a horrible person, which I don’t exactly agree with. That cannot be said about Luka, who has no flaws, wishes, character motivation or similar nasty things that could get in the way.

All of these factors have nothing to do with Kagami whatsoever. Now, if you’re wondering why Lukanette is more popular than Kagaminette, then we’re getting somewhere.

Next up, more controversial opinions about other pairings:

Adrienette

Horrible, awful. Adrinette is king.

Marichat

Just to reiterate: I love Marichat moments. I don’t think regular Marichat dates, whether that is romantic dates or friend dates, works at all. Marichat lives from the fact that they’re both friends, yes, but also from the low-key spy vs spy antics where they try to convince each other that they’re not actually best friends yet. (Ladrien could do the same but they’re too busy awkwardly blushing at each other to get any sustained antics going)

Ladynoir

These two do not go on patrols in canon. I know every fan claims so, but there’s no canon evidence, except for Dark Owl/Hibou Noir, where the regular patrols are clearly established as something unusual that both of them want to end soon. Yes, I know there’s one instagram post, and supposedly one tweet (not that I’ve ever seen it), but it’s not in the show. And let’s be real, why would they go on patrols? Hawkmoth canonically creates Akumas whenever, including frequently during school hours. Patrols can’t help against that. That’s why our heroes canonically use alerting apps.

The reason why people love patrols is because it gets Ladynoir together without having to invent an Akuma. I can see the appeal behind that… but honestly, isn’t that just lazy? The show generally makes sure to show us the tail end of the adventure that brought them together this time, and I think that is more fun. Alternatively, sometimes, the show just doesn’t bother to explain why they’re together in costume at all (e.g. the end of Chat Blanc), and it turns out that this is also a thing you can do and nobody will hate you for it.

Adrinette

This may be my most controversial opinion yet, but I want these two crazy kids to kiss and hold hands and grow old together.

Adrigaminette

Yes, I know it'll never be canon. But I refuse to believe that they didn't realise people would ship it when they wrote the beginning of Heart Hunter. That whole sequence seems like it was designed to get me to ship it, and you know what? It succeeded.

Maribat aka Daminette

Kill it with fire.

Alyanette

We don’t have enough of this.

Alyadrien

People, including Zag, are sleeping on what a great platonic friendship pairing this could be. Just those two geeking out about how great Ladybug, Marinette, Nino and Carapace are.

Kagaminette

I have nothing but love for this pairing; I'm just including it here for completeness.

GabeNath

The problem with that ship is that I don’t want good things to happen to either of these people. Which means I'm perfectly okay with the canon version of this ship, where it's clear that both of them are emotionally stunted, callous and immoral and are never going to find happiness. The fact that it’s technically cheating only adds to that. I am not fond of fan versions where these two and Adrien are one happy family, though.

DJWifi

The pairing is perfect, but I have to say: Lady WiFi is cooler and fits better for Alya than Rena Rouge. Who ever thought to give the journalist the Miraculous that is all about lying and deception?

I’m very okay with Nino not being the Bubbler, though.

JuleRose

Come on Zag, they deserve to be unambiguously canon.

MarcNath

See JuleRose. Actually, I think when directly compared to JuleRose, they could really do with some more development, some more scenes of them together. I do ship it, but they seemed to have gotten the “official unacknowledged gay boys couple” almost out of nowhere.

MarcNath where Nath means Nathalie

I don’t think it would be a good idea at all, but the troll part in me (which is responsible for this post existing in the first place) thinks it might be worth exploring.

MariLila

We need more of this ultimate crack ship.

Adrigamilukanette

Get rid of Luka and then we’re talking.

Chloegami

I used to think it was a stupid idea but I’ve read a number of very well written slow-burn stories about them, so now I ship it.

Felinette

I don’t get it at all. I feel like I should write more about it in a post like this, but I'm mostly just baffled by its existence.

Lukagami

Kagami deserves better.

Juleka/Lila

I just saw that this tag exists, on a "here are my drabbles" fic that was last updated in 2018, before it got to the Juleka/Lila part, and now I’m both intrigued and frustrated.

Adrichat

Hah, you had almost forgotten about that, hadn’t you?