#amway

[mostlysignssomeportents]

Sympathy for the spammer

Catch me in Miami! I'll be at Books and Books in Coral Gables on Jan 22 at 8PM.

In any scam, any con, any hustle, the big winners are the people who supply the scammers – not the scammers themselves. The kids selling dope on the corner are making less than minimum wage, while the respectable crime-bosses who own the labs clean up. Desperate "retail investors" who buy shitcoins from Superbowl ads get skinned, while the MBA bros who issue the coins make millions (in real dollars, not crypto).

It's ever been thus. The California gold rush was a con, and nearly everyone who went west went broke. Famously, the only reliable way to cash out on the gold rush was to sell "picks and shovels" to the credulous, doomed and desperate. That's how Leland Stanford made his fortune, which he funneled into eugenics programs (and founding a university):

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/malcolm-harris/palo-alto/9780316592031/

That means that the people who try to con you are almost always getting conned themselves. Think of Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) scams. My forthcoming novel The Bezzle opens with a baroque and improbable fast-food Ponzi in the town of Avalon on the island of Catalina, founded by the chicle monopolist William Wrigley Jr:

http://thebezzle.org

Wrigley found fast food declasse and banned it from the island, a rule that persists to this day. In The Bezzle, the forensic detective Martin Hench uncovers The Fry Guys, an MLM that flash-freezes contraband burgers and fries smuggled on-island from the mainland and sells them to islanders though an "affiliate marketing" scheme that is really about recruiting other affiliate markets to sell under you. As with every MLM, the value of the burgers and fries sold is dwarfed by the gigantic edifice of finance fraud built around it, with "points" being bought and sold for real cash, which is snaffled up and sucked out of the island by a greedy mainlander who is behind the scheme.

A "bezzle" is John Kenneth Galbraith's term for "the magic interval when a confidence trickster knows he has the money he has appropriated but the victim does not yet understand that he has lost it." In every scam, there's a period where everyone feels richer – but only the scammers are actually cleaning up. The wealth of the marks is illusory, but the longer the scammer can preserve the illusion, the more real money the marks will pump into the system.

MLMs are particularly ugly, because they target people who are shut out of economic opportunity – women, people of color, working people. These people necessarily rely on social ties for survival, looking after each others' kids, loaning each other money they can't afford, sharing what little they have when others have nothing.

It's this social cohesion that MLMs weaponize. Crypto "entrepreneurs" are encouraged to suck in their friends and family by telling them that they're "building Black wealth." Working women are exhorted to suck in their bffs by appealing to their sisterhood and the chance for "women to lift each other up."

The "sales people" trying to get you to buy crypto or leggings or supplements are engaged in predatory conduct that will make you financially and socially worse off, wrecking their communities' finances and shattering the mutual aid survival networks they rely on. But they're not getting rich on this – they're also being scammed:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4686468

This really hit home for me in the mid-2000s, when I was still editing Boing Boing. We had a submission form where our readers could submit links for us to look at for inclusion on the blog, and it was overwhelmed by spam. We'd add all kinds of antispam to it, and still, we'd get floods of hundreds or even thousands of spam submissions to it.

One night, I was lying in my bed in London and watching these spams roll in. They were all for small businesses in the rustbelt, handyman services, lawn-care, odd jobs, that kind of thing. They were 10 million miles from the kind of thing we'd ever post about on Boing Boing. They were coming in so thickly that I literally couldn't finish downloading my email – the POP session was dropping before I could get all the mail in the spool. I had to ssh into my mail server and delete them by hand. It was maddening.

Frustrated and furious, I started calling the phone numbers associated with these small businesses, demanding an explanation. I assumed that they'd hired some kind of sleazy marketing service and I wanted to know who it was so I could give them a piece of my mind.

But what I discovered when I got through was much weirder. These people had all been laid off from factories that were shuttering due to globalization. As part of their termination packages, their bosses had offered them "retraining" via "courses" in founding their own businesses.

The "courses" were the precursors to the current era's rise-and-grind hustle-culture scams (again, the only people getting rich from that stuff are the people selling the courses – the "students" finish the course poorer). They promised these laid-off workers, who'd given their lives to their former employers before being discarded, that they just needed to pull themselves up by their own boostraps:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/04/10/declaration-of-interdependence/#solidarity-forever

After all, we had the internet now! There were so many new opportunities to be your own boss! The course came with a dreadful build-your-own-website service, complete with an overpriced domain sales portal, and a single form for submitting your new business to "thousands of search engines."

This was nearly 20 years ago, but even then, there was really only one search engine that mattered: Google. The "thousands of search engines" the scammers promised to submit these desperate peoples' websites to were just submission forms for directories, indexes, blogs, and mailing lists. The number of directories, indexes, blogs and mailing lists that would publish their submissions was either "zero" or "nearly zero." There was certainly no possibility that anyone at Boing Boing would ever press the wrong key and accidentally write a 500-word blog post about a leaf-raking service in a collapsing deindustrialized exurb in Kentucky or Ohio.

The people who were drowning me in spam weren't the scammers – they were the scammees.

But that's only half the story. Years later, I discovered how our submission form was getting included in this get-rich-quick's mass-submission system. It was a MLM! Coders in the former Soviet Union were getting work via darknet websites that promised them relative pittances for every submission form they reverse-engineered and submitted. The smart coders didn't crack the forms directly – they recruited other, less business-savvy coders to do that for them, and then often as not, ripped them off.

The scam economy runs on this kind of indirection, where scammees are turned into scammers, who flood useful and productive and nice spaces with useless dross that doesn't even make them any money. Take the submission queue at Clarkesworld, the great online science fiction magazine, which famously had to close after it was flooded with thousands of junk submission "written" by LLMs:

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/24/1159286436/ai-chatbot-chatgpt-magazine-clarkesworld-artificial-intelligence

There was a zero percent chance that Neil Clarke would accidentally accept one of these submissions. They were uniformly terrible. The people submitting these "stories" weren't frustrated sf writers who'd discovered a "life hack" that let them turn out more brilliant prose at scale.

They were scammers who'd been scammed into thinking that AIs were the key to a life of passive income, a 4-Hour Work-Week powered by an AI-based self-licking ice-cream cone:

https://pod.link/1651876897/episode/995c8a778ede17d2d7cff393e5203157

This is absolutely classic passive-income brainworms thinking. "I have a bot that can turn out plausible sentences. I will locate places where sentences can be exchanged for money, aim my bot at it, sit back, and count my winnings." It's MBA logic on meth: find a thing people pay for, then, without bothering to understand why they pay for that thing, find a way to generate something like it at scale and bombard them with it.

Con artists start by conning themselves, with the idea that "you can't con an honest man." But the factor that predicts whether someone is connable isn't their honesty – it's their desperation. The kid selling drugs on the corner, the mom desperately DMing her high-school friends to sell them leggings, the cousin who insists that you get in on their shitcoin – they're all doing it because the system is rigged against them, and getting worse every day.

These people reason – correctly – that all the people getting really rich are scamming. If Amazon can make $38b/year selling "ads" that push worse products that cost more to the top of their search results, why should the mere fact that an "opportunity" is obviously predatory and fraudulent disqualify it?

https://pluralistic.net/2023/11/29/aethelred-the-unready/#not-one-penny-for-tribute

The quest for passive income is really the quest for a "greater fool," the economist's term for the person who relieves you of the useless crap you just overpaid for. It rots the mind, atomizes communities, shatters solidarity and breeds cynicism:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/02/24/passive-income/#swiss-cheese-security

The rise and rise of botshit cannot be separated from this phenomenon. The botshit in our search-results, our social media feeds, and our in-boxes isn't making money for the enshittifiers who send it – rather, they are being hustled by someone who's selling them the "picks and shovels" for the AI gold rush:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/03/botshit-generative-ai-imminent-threat-democracy

That's the true cost of all the automation-driven unemployment criti-hype: while we're nowhere near a place where bots can steal your job, we're certainly at the point where your boss can be suckered into firing you and replacing you with a bot that fails at doing your job:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/01/11/robots-stole-my-jerb/#computer-says-no

The manic "entrepreneurs" who've been stampeded into panic by the (correct) perception that the economy is a game of musical chairs where the number of chairs is decreasing at breakneck speed are easy marks for the Leland Stanfords of AI, who are creating generational wealth for themselves by promising that their bots will automate away all the tedious work that goes into creating value. Expect a lot more Amazon Marketplace products called "I'm sorry, I cannot fulfil this request as it goes against OpenAI use policy":

https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/12/24036156/openai-policy-amazon-ai-listings

No one's going to buy these products, but the AI picks-and-shovels people will still reap a fortune from the attempt. And because history repeats itself, these newly minted billionaires are continuing Leland Stanford's love affair with eugenics:

https://www.truthdig.com/dig-series/eugenics/

The fact that AI spam doesn't pay is important to the fortunes of AI companies. Most high-value AI applications are very risk-intolerant (self-driving cars, radiology analysis, etc). An AI tool might help a human perform these tasks more accurately – by warning them of things that they've missed – but that's not how AI will turn a profit. There's no market for AI that makes your workers cost more but makes them better at their jobs:

https://locusmag.com/2023/12/commentary-cory-doctorow-what-kind-of-bubble-is-ai/

Plenty of people think that spam might be the elusive high-value, low-risk AI application. But that's just not true. The point of AI spam is to get clicks from people who are looking for better content. It's SEO. No one reads 2000 words of algorithm-pleasing LLM garbage over an omelette recipe and then subscribes to that site's feed.

And the omelette recipe generates pennies for the spammer that posted it. They are doing massive volume in order to make those pennies into dollars. You don't make money by posting one spam. If every spammer had to pay the actual recovery costs (energy, chillers, capital amortization, wages) for their query, every AI spam would lose (lots of) money.

Hustle culture and passive income are about turning other peoples' dollars into your dimes. It is a negative-sum activity, a net drain on society. Behind every seemingly successful "passive income" is a con artist who's getting rich by promising – but not delivering – that elusive passive income, and then blaming the victims for not hustling hard enough:

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/12/blueprint-trouble

I'm Kickstarting the audiobook for The Bezzle, the sequel to Red Team Blues, narrated by @wilwheaton! You can pre-order the audiobook and ebook, DRM free, as well as the hardcover, signed or unsigned. There's also bundles with Red Team Blues in ebook, audio or paperback.

If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this post to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/01/15/passive-income-brainworms/#four-hour-work-week

Image: Cryteria (modified) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HAL9000.svg

CC BY 3.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en

[bilbao-song]

Jewelry featured in the Amway Personal Shoppers Catalog, 1978.

[oldshowbiz]

The DeVos Family has been a corrupting force in American politics for several generations.

[marzipanandminutiae]

I have to thank you for something kind of strange. A coworker (who was rude and caused problems and didn't care) left our job a couple of weeks ago. I just heard what her new job is and immediately went "hey WAIT A MINUTE, why do I know that name???". Realised I read it on your blog, rediscovered it, and had a fit. It's Amway. I hope it doesn't ruin her or anyone THROUGH her. Thank you for blogging about it/your ex-roomate and making people aware of what it is so we know to stay away from it. :)

Oh your poor ex-coworker. She sounds terrible, but nobody deserves that (except maybe Jeff Bezos). Stay well clear, anon- happy I could help!

[shiftythrifting]

Vintage MLM crap

Ohio Valley Antique Mall

[softgaycontent]

Please share everything you know about MLMs I love learning things

Thank you for asking! I’ll start with a TL:DR for everyone: Never join an MLM. Over 99% of participants LOSE money (and time! And friends!). 

A Multi-Level Marketing Company (MLM), also sometimes called Direct Selling, is essentially a barely-legal pyramid scheme. Sales reps can either make money by selling a product or by recruitment of new sales reps.

MLMs make money off of people joining the MLM, even if those sales reps never sell anything, because the sales reps have to buy the product from the company before they can re-sell it. Therefore, they focus a LOT on recruitment (pyramid scheme). 

Some famous MLMs you may have heard of:  Amway, Mary Kay, Herbalife, Avon

We can prove the 99% Lose Money number pretty easily. If you are to only learn one fact to teach others, then look up Amway (the biggest MLM)’s Income Disclosure statement, which they publish themselves, on their own website. Screencap below:

This is PRE-business expenses that sales reps pay out of pocket, and still the average annual GROSS income made by the TOP 10% of the company is LESS than minimum wage. After expenses, you can see yourself how almost everybody loses money. (The money people lose goes to the ppl at the VERY top of the company; it’s not like when a normal small business fails.)

Below the cut is a lot more info, although not close to all I have collected.

Screencap summary of Amway's Income Disclosure:

Half of the TOP 1% made less than 55K pre-expense; studies show even they generally LOST money, or made very very little after expense (the top 0.5% actually makes any money, and the 0.05% make a LOT of money)

The TOP 10% earns, on average, LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE ($15K), with less than half of the TOP 10% making over $4.6K PRE-EXPENSES

Less than half of the TOP 50% makes more than $631 A YEAR. PRE-EXPENSE.

(Also, they cut the bottom 1/3 out entirely, so the 50% referenced is 50% OF the top 2/3. I’m actually OK with this, as long as it’s acknowledged, for better reporting. The bottom 1/3 were “inactive” and possibly not trying to participate in sales. The top 2/3 still sucks.)

I made a very sloppy visual to restate the data, in case it helps anyone:

-

Another example is the Mary Kay public income disclosure [for Canada] (another very popular MLM). 

Again, pre-expense, though also pre-retail sales (more in paragraph below)

The top 0.05%(!) makes average commissions of $124K

The level below that, Independent Sales Director, only 1.7% of the company, makes less than Canadian Minimum wage in commissions

98% of the company, very clearly, makes anywhere from $0 per year, to at most an average of $206 DOLLARS A YEAR (pre-expense, pre-sale)

Mary Kay works a little differently than Amway, where once you purchase a product, MK truly does not know or care what happens to it at all. If all of these people actually sold all the products they bought, it’s possible they made supplemental income, but data shows that most LOSE money on actual sales.

Let’s focus on Mary Kay for a moment, because their structure means the ONLY money the company ever receives was given to them BY their sales reps. So they’re easy to follow.

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Why do sales reps lose money on sales?

The market is oversaturated. They have 3.5 MILLION reps trying to sell the same product* - meaning they either can’t sell, or they have to greatly discount the product

Many MLM products are more expensive than the same product elsewhere

They constantly refresh their line of products, so the inventory reps already have is now worth less and harder to sell

Sales reps must buy a minimum amount of new product each month to keep certain perks, even if they haven’t yet sold their old product (min $225, with much higher amounts sometimes necessary to keep status)

*What makes MLMs legal (thanks to lobbying, mostly) is that they HAVE a product, which sales reps buy from the company. I’m careful not to call these people employees, as they are technically independent consultants, and thus don’t receive employee benefits... like a guaranteed income, or healthcare, or anything. If you google “Mary Kay employees”, you will find data on their ACTUAL employees, who do actually make money. This is clearly not the case for their sales reps (table above). Mary Kay has about 5K ACTUAL employees, and 3.5 MILLION sales reps. 

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So how do sales reps make ANY commissions?

If you convince people to join Mary Kay, MK will give you a cut (commission) of what they spend at the company on product

Since this is the main way to make money, reps are incentivized to recruit as much as possible

They are also incentivized to LIE about how much money they’re making, so people will stay with the company. I’ve read stories of reps renting a fancy car from time to time to convince the people below them that they’re making money

Clearly, thanks to the income disclosure, we can see that they aren't making much money on commissions, either

-

How are sales reps buying more product if they lose money being in an MLM?

Reps are encouraged to dip into their savings, with the promise of a greater payout later. If they don’t have any, they can open Mary Kay CHASE VISA card, and charge all the products they will never re-sell to it

Many people end up in heavy debt

Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t track what they’re spending vs earning until it’s far too late

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What else do reps lose?

Time: Selling is actually a very small part of the business. A lot of time is spent FINDING people to sell to, organizing classes, restocking inventory, recruiting new members, traveling, going to conferences, and more. 

Mary Kay’s motto is, “God First, Family Second, Job Third”, to imply that this is something you can pick up part-time, but that’s simply not true

Relationships: Most people try to sell to and/or recruit their friends and family first, which can put a strain on relationships. Additionally, due to debt and/or need to borrow money to buy more products, many have damaged relationships with those close to them, including their spouses, who share the debt.

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How else does Mary Kay make money?Don’t worry, it’s not all from sales reps buying their products! (Sarcasm. Please worry.)

Website + ability to process credit cards: This is essentially an annual membership fee - to access the MK website to buy their products (to re-sell), or to take credit cards as payment, you pay an annual amount to Mary Kay

Business Cards: More petty costs

Conferences: Sales reps are greatly encouraged to pay to attend sales conferences to learn more about how to be a great salesperson. (BONUS: you will encounter many cult-like tactics here, to keep you IN the MLM)

Jackets: Congrats! You’ve been promoted and you are now permitted to wear the Red Jacket! It costs $100. If you get promoted to NSD(?), you get to wear a fancy suit that changes every year and costs $1,000 each year!

-

How else does Amway make money? Bonus because they are egregious

Sales Reps replacing everything they own: Amway sells a LOT of different things. How can you sell anything if you haven’t tried it? If you really want to succeed at Amway, get rid of EVERYTHING you own that Amway also sells. Make sure everything you own is sold by Amway (people do actually follow these instructions! Cult-like tactics are used)

Training Materials: They make a lot of money off of selling training materials to their sales reps. Aren’t making money? It’s because you don’t WANT to succeed, clearly, if you aren’t buying all the training materials you can get your hands on

Haha maybe more than you've bargained for. I wrote this all at once late at night, but I'll look it over later to check for any potential errors and link more sources.

[generic-whumperz]

CW: IRL cult experience, MLM (as in “multi-level marketing,” not “men-loving man”), mentions of depression and thoughts of suicide, talk of pursuing legal action

***

Disclaimer- This is all my personal experience, and thoughts and feelings expressed here are only my own and do not reflect the organizations or all persons within the organizations.

***

I know this is a weird place to be sharing what I’m about to, but quite honestly, I don’t know where else to divulge this information other than Reddit.

Here we go-

Several years ago, I accidentally joined a cult within a cult, a subset of Amway at the time called “World Wide Dream Builders.” They have since renamed their organization “World Wide Group” because they began getting negative affiliation with their name as people began exposing them online. (Just Google “World Wide Dream Builders” if you are interested.) But make no mistake, this is the same damn company cult, run by the same people, doing the same shit, and probably using the same or similar tactics.

After moving out of state in 2018 for a myriad of reasons, but a determining number of them being my need for a clean slate, I began to slowly unpack what the fuck I was just a part of and started a long healing journey (from that and much else). A significant component to my understanding of what was really going on and how cults and MLMs operate were the podcasts “Life After MLM,” “Sounds Like A Cult,” “Sounds Like An MLM But Okay,” and “The Dream.” And, of course, Leah Remini’s series “Scientology and the Aftermath” helped me realize just how deep-rooted cults are in American culture at large. If you’ve been in one cult, you’ve kinda been in all of them. (Additionally, r/antiMLM is an excellent source for all things anti-MLM, and this Facebook group is great for ex-members of WWDB/WWG specifically.)

It took me years to make peace with myself over how I could have gotten mixed up with such blatant bullshit and fuckery. I wasn’t in for very long, but those five months where I was dedicated and “all in” (as they say) were a roller coaster, and my mental and physical health was at an all-time low. I was extremely depressed and, at a point, even suicidal, largely due to the “brainwashing” (thought-stopping clichés, love-bombing, and bait-and-switching) and being fed the narrative that “all my problems would go away if I just practiced CORE” (the cult’s acronym for how each good little IBO {another bullshit acronym short for “independent business owner”} should be living day-to-day). I was extremely volatile at the time, and instead of being told that I just needed to “lean into my upline” (my culty superiors), by my upline, they should have urged me to seek professional counseling and help. They were not therapists, psychiatrists, or counselors to any degree, yet they loved to masquerade around as such. 

I could go on and on about all this, but the point of me sharing all this is that back in 2020, I submitted a formal complaint (against either Amway or WWDB, or both; it’s been a while, so I do not remember which) to the FTC. A couple of months ago, I was finally contacted by a senior investigator regarding my submitted complaint. But at the time, I was sick and bedridden with COVID, and I still haven’t responded to them. To be honest, I don’t know what to do or say. Amway is no stranger to class-action lawsuits, and I believe WWDB changed its name because of class-action lawsuits against them.

I still have some of my official paperwork/documents and notes that I took during our “meetings,” but I don’t know if these have any teeth, as so much has changed internally now. My question is if anyone has dealt with the FTC in regards to MLMs and what their experience was. I’m afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing- I don’t know what to say- where to even start. Or is this more so the FTC trying to add me to a class action lawsuit against one or both companies?

I’m hoping to find someone who has gone through this process and can share some words of advice. Or, if you have an Amway/WWDB/WWG/BWW/etc., feel free to reach out to me or reblog this with your experience! My DM’s are always open to those seeking catharsis in this strange and unusual experience and to validate you that yes, that was happening, and yes, that shit was whack!

*A note to my fellow whumpers: I decided to share this here, on my whump blog of all places, because I feel like there is an overlap of connoisseurs of whump and people who have been through some strange experiences. And because this is the first time I’ve felt safe enough in a space to do so. Know that you are not alone! I shared this in hopes of it reaching and helping someone-anyone. Even if one person gets something from this, that’s more than enough for me. Again, my DM’s and asks are open to fellow culties!

P.S. If you are an Amway/WWG/general MLM sympathizer who feels the unnecessary need to DM me or send me an anonymous ask, don’t. Practice self-restraint. I don’t care to hear whatever string of words you feel so compelled to share, insisting that I’m “wrong,” a “loser,” or a “failure,” and that “the system works” because your upline Crown Diamond, Double-Eagle Ruby, Emerald, or your brother, sister, mom, dad, cousin, or whoever else told you so or claims to be a living testament of- it doesn’t and I’m most certainly not. Even if you do know “someone at the top,” it is at the expense of hundreds, if not thousands, of people beneath them, funneling money back up through WWG tool kit systems and dubious “recruitment bonuses.” I won’t read whatever hogwash you send; it will be promptly deleted, and I will block you.

[loverockawaitsyou]

Random, but I met a nice girl at a shopping area in U-District, and I thought I made a new friend. I met with her a couple times, and she even gave me a job lead... Turns out she is in Amway and has been trying to recruit me into her downline.

Ugh. I wish I was more blunt and not such a nice person sometimes. She knows I just moved here in July and got out of an abusive situation.

But with these Amway people, no matter your circumstance, you get gaslit if you turn down the opportunity... "Do you not want to make money?"

I literally just got out of something culty.

EDIT.

Wait... She lives in West Seattle and was in a random shopping center in U-District (and she's not a student)! I just realized she was there to recruit because that's a hot spot for young, financially strapped, vulnerable people... Jesus.

[pavanupare]

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[mcavusoglu]

[coulsonlives]

I can't believe I haven't posted this before, because this video is everything. Such a good examination of MLMs! It goes into what makes them cults, the magical thinking, the survivorship bias, all the manipulation, etc.

[bilbao-song]

Amway Personal Shoppers Catalog, 1984.

[theeducationmag]

The term network marketing is also called pyramid selling, Multi-level marketing (MLM) and referral marketing in India. These terms often confusion individuals who are unknown to this field of Network Marketing Companies.

[zoomar]

Here's your sample case; there's your territory; get the orders.

[lainecblog]

Quando começar a tomar vitaminas?

A verdade é que não existe contraindicação para começar a tomar vitamina.

Crianças e adultos podem tomar, o mais importante é sempre buscar orientação de um profissional e produtos naturais e de qualidade.

Você já conhece a nossa vitamina Acerola C Mastigável Nutrilite? 🤔

Se não corre aqui, ela é recomendada para crianças e adultos como fonte de Vitamina C, que auxilia em diversos pontos do seu organismo, como;

✅ No funcionamento do sistema imune;

✅ Na formação do colágeno;

✅ No metabolismo energético;

✅ No metabolismo de proteínas e gorduras;

Incrível não é??? Eu amoo! ❤️