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aromacaque · 3 months ago

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I have a question for you: Do you think the narrative treats wukong and macaque unfairly when it comes to Consequence or their actions ?,like mistakes they make in the series story,how characters treat them,like how wukong got called for the samdhi fire and not macaque that hurt Mei and tang,when he forced tang to Release it.

TLDR: No.

Macaque does get called wrong for what he does?? I've seen a lot of takes and stuff that get annoyed at him for having a redemption without him apologizing first and stuff floating around, but I honestly can't even understand those because he hasn't fully redeemed himself yet. His character arc isn't over. He hasn't even gotten enough time to develop that direction yet. He's very much an anti-hero narratively, always has been, and he's only just now starting to stray from that but I'm not sure by how much.

If he apologized at all in season 4 that would've been awful, out of character, and so forced. In season 5 not only would it still have been out of character and forced, but there was no time for that with everything else happening. I do not want to see him do that unless he works his way to it properly, which he hasn't.

He's a really morally grey character and the show isn't even trying to hide that narratively because he's always treated as his own unit separate to the others. That is only POSSIBLY starting to change after season 5 since he's getting more involved with the whole group, but we'll find that out in season 6.

But also I wouldn't be surprised if he never apologizes. I think the entire main cast has started to see him as "the weird emotionally repressed monkey who doesn't know how to talk to people normally and is a little bit of a freak about it" which like, y'know. Not a conventional forgiveness by any means. It's acceptance of him being there at best. I also think his actions are meaningful too. Red Son has also never apologized, and yet his actions have pretty much done it for him. Red Son feels easier to forgive because his antagonism was always on the more comical side, but I think that point still has standing.

I think there's an unbalance in how much of Wukong's side we see, but I don't think that's a narrative issue either. For one, I think they've been building up to it. These two aren't the main focus of the story (which only has 10 episode seasons with 4 episode specials) so it's gonna take a while. They're a B-plot at best, realistically probably more of a C-plot. Macaque is more willing than Wukong is to talk about what happened between them, too. Wukong tends to shut down when he's faced with things about his past that genuinely upset him. He doesn't talk about the pilgrims because he still grieves them. He isolated himself on his mountain for 600 years after imprisoning his last "friend" (DBK) that was still alive and came out of that isolation in hopes to "retire."

There are a lot of visuals and hints/clues to Wukong's sides of things and his feelings. With the rock of their painting still being there after all these centuries, knowing that Macaque is implied to be a large part of what he was getting stronger for (and what he sees as his worst mistake), the way he treats Macaque in general which is an exception to how he treats everybody else, etc.

I think, if anything, how closed off he is regarding information about Macaque reveals a lot about Wukong as a character because he's really avoidant. Which speaking of...

The main issue the others have with Wukong has always been his lack of communication with everyone, generally. Which is only made a big deal in seasons 2-3. He had a tendency to handle things on his own if he felt like nobody else could, but he does that without telling anyone what exactly his plans are. He shoulders way too much responsibility in season 2 and 3, which ironically makes him irresponsible.

Mei's issue with him in season 3 is that he was leading them into a very dangerous plan without telling them exactly what was going on, and also while withholding information from them. On top of his negligence in season 2 causing MK a lot of issues. Both are understandable things for Mei to get upset at him for. He makes up for it by apologizing to MK and being more communicative. Their relationship seems fine after season 3.

Pigsy is the only other one who had genuine issue with Wukong, which makes sense. He's MK's dad. He also feels like Wukong let MK down in season 2. He's the first to find out Wukong is withholding information in season 3. He still treats Wukong with respect, Pigsy is just like that and is protective of MK. He also doesn't like Macaque so it's not a Wukong specific thing.

Same with everybody else, his relationship to Wukong seems fine after season 3. They all help him with his house after it gets destroyed because he's their friend and they care about him. They wouldn't do that if they had a big issue with him still. Well, Sandy would, but more importantly Pigsy and Mei help with it. Tang gives .. moral support? But he's also there.

Wukong gets mad at Macaque for what he does during the samadhi fire, but Tang stops him because there was a part of him that felt compelled to do it, which is really important because it's part of establishing Tang's powers and connection to the golden cicada (reincarnation, descendant, whatever all of them are) but also Wukong attacking Macaque there wasn't gonna help anyone in that situation. On top of being in character for Tang to stop him, he doesn't like conflict much. He also learns a bit about Macaque in Benched and I think Tang is smart enough to know Macaque is a little more complicated than just being a villain because he attempts to talk Macaque out of hunting them down because he realizes that he'd have a better shot at defeating LBD with everyone. Which Macaque literally can't agree to because he CAN'T switch sides without getting killed, but I digress.

Not to mention, I think all of the characters are aware Macaque is on his own side. MK is immediately because he knows Macaque. Tang figures it out. There's always room to work with him if the right cards align, unless he's being forced on a specific side against his will.

I personally think it's made obvious enough that Wukong has good intentions with his mistakes. The fandom villainizes him a lot for some reason. Genuinely don't know how because the show certainly isn't doing that. It's also pretty well established, in my opinion, that Macaque is an unreliable narrator and what happened between him and Wukong is more nuanced than he makes it out to seem. That's PROVEN in season 4!!

Also not sure how Macaque is always characterized as the more mature one in the fandom. In the past? Macaque was more mature. Seasons 1-3? It was Wukong. Season 5? They're kinda starting to get on equal footing more... sorta.

In season 4, the brotherhood brings up a lot of Wukong's past mistakes, because that is what gets him imprisoned by heaven, but it also makes it really obvious how much he has changed over the years. To me, the way it comes across, is that the writers are putting emphasis on how guilty Wukong feels for his past behavior. They are not telling us that he's a bad person. Wukong constantly feels like he's making up for the person he used to be before he met Tripitaka and he spends the entire series trying to mitigate any possible hurt he can cause. That's why he keeps pushing them away at first and why he doesn't want MK responsible for LBD whatsoever.

And, to be honest, A Lifetime of Past Mistakes was largely about his and Macaque's relationship more-so than it was about the other things. It just reaffirms and pushes into the viewers face that the brotherhood is in the wrong with only a little grey area.

Azure shows up claiming to help, then pulls the rug out from Mei and MK's feet because he was manipulating them the entire time, and the only reason they didn't know is because Wukong literally was not able to tell them. A Lifetime of Past Mistakes basically just shows that Wukong became too power obsessed (anybody who has read jttw already knew that) and it reinforces that the brotherhood's intentions had been misguided from the start and Azure was the main contributor to that. Wukong played a roll, but it's not like Wukong lead the brotherhood astray. They were already doing that to themselves. Wukong was the only one to break out of that and change for the better.

Azure's issue with Wukong is unfair to him too! He blames Wukong for everything wrong that has happened, but MK is the one that points out how unfair that is by verbally telling them to his face, "None of this was Monkey King's fault." Because it literally isn't. Wukong isn't responsible for his past enemies mistakes. Any of them.

Even Macaque himself acknowledges that he believed (past tense) Wukong was a bad guy because Azure wanted them all to believe that, but when Wukong "betrayed" the brotherhood he was imprisoning them most likely for what they were doing to the land. Like they literally killed the entire land around them. They're not good people they were killing the land. Macaque doesn't even like these people even remotely. The brotherhood wasn't good at all, even though Azure had good intentions.

I SEE SO MUCH MISCHARACTERIZATION ABOUT THIS IN THE FANDOM IT DRIVES ME INSANE BECAUSE THIS ISN'T EVEN SUBTEXT THEY VERBALLY TELL US ALL OF THIS INFORMATION. I usually don't bring that up in more analysis-type posts but I have never been in a fandom where I'm constantly wondering if I'm watching the same show as everybody else. I remember there was a joke a couple years ago about like "lmk fans have never watched the show" but sometimes I don't know if it's a joke ..... How are people villainizing Wukong and not Azure. I don't think either of them should be fully villainized, but if either of them are going to be how would it ever be Wukong I feel like I'm going insane over here tbh.

Also even in season 4 they are all (bar MK and Wukong, who have a dif relationship with him) still scared of (or unsettled by) Macaque, and in season 5 nobody interacts with him enough for us to really know how they feel about him. None of them really interact with him though, besides MK and Wukong. MK still has his own hold ups about Macaque, but MK is also the same guy who saw good in Macaque, because he's always been an anti-hero narratively, and convinced him to help them fight LBD.

Nobody even announces concern for Macaque after he sacrifices himself except MK and Wukong. Nobody announces concern over him when he uses too much of his power except Wukong. Nobody thinks to look back for him or include him at the end of the world except Wukong.

Macaque also shows a considerable amount of concern for Wukong in season 5 as well. It's very balanced, they just have a very complicated relationship.

Sandy includes Macaque in the group hug, but this is Sandy we are talking about. He sees the good in everybody.

Macaque did help them save MK though, it's obvious that he's trying to be better (even if he hasn't verbally apologized to anybody yet), they all are at the very least vaguely aware he was working with LBD against his will, I'm not sure if they even fully know what happened during Shadow Play, and MK has been the center of most of what Macaque does. Wukong is on better terms with him so of course they'd let him celebrate with them.

There's a lot of different relationships and it's a lot to balance in the short runtime this series has. I don't think the writing is perfect and I wish some character dynamics got more time to have focus put on them, but overall the narrative is doing it's thing and I don't think it's doing it poorly.

Macaque is an anti-hero who is slowly starting to better himself and establish himself more into alignment with the protagonists. None of them have fully forgiven him, necessarily, but they are able to understand him well enough as a person and have relationships with him that are in depth enough to know he's not irredeemable or inherently awful. Narratively he is established as his own party, clearly not a great person, but we can also see that potential in him and see it grow as the series progresses. We can also sympathize with him, he's had a rough life and it's what leads him to making some poor decisions.

Wukong is a protagonist who is well-intentioned despite mistakes he may make along the way, is doing his best to be what MK needs, is able to realize when he needs to apologize and change his behavior if he's done something wrong, and is trying his best to do justice. We can see that he cares a lot about MK and his friends and would do anything to keep them safe while being non-violent and fairly level-headed, rational, and non-confrontational unless the situation seriously calls for it.

#inbox #lego monkie kid #wukong #macaque #shadowpeach #<- tagging it as that is so scary people actually see it when i do this #as if that's not the reason i'm tagging it as that bc this is not really shadowpeach at all #just about them #their duo name is just shadowpeach to me. ik it's the ship name but it's their duo name to me #there's more i could say for sure but this is just kinda the bare bones of it #wukong and macaque are both mischaracterized a lot though idk #wukong especially #macaque is just like .. demonized in a very specific way and INSANE thing to say without backing it up but i'm gonna pull the #'this seems like ableism' out of my ass for that one because macaque is.. something is going on in his brain #and the way people treat that is.. interesting #OR macaque is treated like wukong's victim or like In The Right and it's such a big disservice to both his and wukong's characters

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