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#and in canon ships especially I feel like queer ships have more effort put in on that end
bedeliainwonderland · 4 months
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thoughts on Hannigram?;)
Hello :) I have the tag filtered so that’s should tell you everything. There are only that many hot takes on Hannibal wearing flannel and having dogs one can read before wanting to stick a pencil in one’s eye…
Can’t stand it, because fans make both of them so out of character (and I don’t even care about Will lol). Now I probably wouldn’t have such strong ~feelings if the fans were more civil, and the show creator hadn’t decided he loved being worshipped by that specific (albeit small) group of people and cater to them specifically, compromising the show in the process. I liked season one and Hannibal’s and Will’s dynamic there. But then it just got more and more ridiculous. Even more so, the fans are always bending themselves backwards to make their ship work, applying “logic” that for some reason does not work for other characters and ships. I am not even getting into the hate on female characters, especially Bedelia (Alana is cool now that’s she’s a lesbian), since she was intimate with Hannibal (I mean, the above fans will tell you they were never a thing…).
I’ve said it before, sure Hannibal “loves” Will, the same way one loves a favourite book or other item. You love it and you don’t want anyone else to have it but you don’t expect it to reciprocate the feelings since it’s an object. Will is this shiny blank canvas Hannibal can project himself onto (boy loves nothing more than looking at himself). Like Narcissus, quite literally given the outcome.
Logically speaking, despite the creator’s efforts, and fandom delusions, the ship was never canon (there was no “kiss” or whatever) and that’s that. People putting it on some insane pedestal of canon queer ships to look up should think again.
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gatalentan · 11 months
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We love and support your AvaMel side but I always laugh when I see something about them bc I remember that Janelle’s tweet 🤣🤣
Ok so for those who don't know, Janelle got tagged in an AvaMel ship fanvid, and replied to one of the quote retweets on that fanvid. I've censored op here for privacy:
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Two things can be true:
1. Janelle is allowed to be weirded out by being tagged/seeing ship content. That's her face & those are her co-workers. She's a very private person who mostly keeps fans at arms-length and that's healthy. Ava isn't Janelle, but she has her face (and so does Lisa), so fanvids in particular when accompanied by an explicit caption I can imagine would be really weird to see. As fans we know the diff between real-person and fictional shipping but from her perspective you can see how that would be more nuanced and complicated. Unfortunately, the Twitter algorithm now puts stuff on your feed - regardless of if you follow them or not - based on how it has pigeonholed you, and as a person who sometimes tweets about Abbott/Ava because it's her job, the algo assumes shes a fan and dishes up Abbott fandom content to her whether she likes it or not, so she sees stuff she doesn't wanna see even if she isn't tagged; she wasn't tagged in that QRT, but she still saw it, so we can see that's what happened here. A big problem there is that seeing stuff that makes them uncomfortable can make actors change how they approach the character(s) in future which sucks for everyone. We can't control the algo but on the whole it's better to not try and expose actors to ship content as much as possible because there's scores of ships where the actors became hostile to shippers as a result of being repeatedly exposed to content they don't want to see, or even just getting fatigued by an unintended ship overshadowing the rest of their acting effort. Unfortunately social media giving a lot of access to celebrities is a very double edged sword and difficult to balance, especially when some actors (cough lisa cough) are so far over the line of what's considered normal fan interactions that it gives unrealistic expectations for celebrities that are more private. Actors aren't your best friends, they don't owe you interactions or unconditional support just because you're a fan, they're strangers and real people with their own thoughts and feelings. Everyone has their own limits and boundaries and are allowed to express that and they're entitled to not be comfortable with fan work that uses their image.
2. Actors/creators not supporting a ship doesn't mean we still shouldn't be allowed to play in the sandbox. Work Wives isn't gonna be canon either, but that's not going to stop me from enjoying it. I'm 32 and if I didn't ship stuff just because it didn't have creator support I'd have spent twenty years with nothing to ship at all. As queers we have to carve our own space out where we can see people like us and make a meal out of scraps because otherwise we wouldn't get to engage with media the same way cishet people take for granted. Unless a show is Queer™️, a vehicle for a character's queerness and a major topic of discussion, we rarely get canon queer characters, let alone characters where it's treated respectfully without one of the pair getting fridged or dying. Even The L Word, Queer™️ as it was, killed off one of a major pairing. We deserve to see ourselves across the whole spectrum of genres, not just in Queer™️ TV, but it simply isn't there, so we make it for ourselves in fanwork. In fanwork you can play with these characters however you want. You can give them a soft landing where they're safe (or the opposite, explore darker themes for a light-hearted show). You can give them the type of stories that would never have the space to breathe in the works they came from. You can take them out of their environment completely and put them somewhere else, you can change one thing that changes their whole dynamic, or you can just write absolute filth. Either way, fundamentally they're fictional characters, they do not exist and they don't have free will, only what you put into them as a viewer. We're not about to make Janelle make out with Lisa, but in fiction, Ava and Mel can, and as fictional characters they represent a dynamic we don't see a ton of with two older women, not teenagers/young adults which is the predominant type of representation we get for WLW in TV. So I'm gonna keep shipping AvaMel, I'm just, y'know. Not gonna put it where Janelle might see it. Easy.
Some good vids on this topic: Is Shipping Gay Culture? (James Somerton) | Artists & Fandoms (Philosophy Tube) | Parasocial Relationships: Strangers Aren't Your Friends (Naomi Cannibal) | An Exhaustive Defense of Fanfiction (Sarah Z) | Why We Ship Characters (The Take)
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roostertuftart · 1 year
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How's about a Kyle or Stan for rhe ask game?
Kyle's been done, here he is!
So Stan it is! And here's the original ask meme :)
Sexuality Headcanon: Stan is just a bicon, I don't think anything else can be said. Look at him. That is the bisexual character. That's who he is. Though tbh, I really like Stan being gay too, IDK, rare headcanon but I just find him dealing with comphet really interesting even if his feelings for Wendy seem very real to me.
Either way, I think besides Eric he's the one out of the main four that feels the least capable of being straight to me, I just- Can't really see it. Stan feels like such a queer character, idk lol
Gender Headcanon: Oh man that boy is not cis. Leaning that he's AMAB and just uses nonbinary but he feels like that's too vague and doesn't fully describe his feelings for his gender. But thinking about it too much stresses him the fuck out, so nonbinary it is. I think Stan has a really big feminine side and he leans into it a lot, and I think he uses the big three, she/they/he, though some days he prefers one over the others. Overall it's just something he really ends up exploring but also not his favorite subject, it's a lot to think about.
A ship I have with said character: Stendylenny as mentioned before, but for the more usual, Style and Stendy are like, my favorites for him, Style above all but Stendy is a close second. I used to kind of feel meh about Stendy on its own but I don't know, I've seen it done well and when it's done well there's such an appeal to it. They're pretty similar dynamically to Style on the surface but I think they're actually fairly unique from it, and there's something so sweet about the both of them kind of figuring themselves out together and putting in the effort to work on their canonical relationship problems. I like a few other Stan ships, namely stenny, stutters, and stanman feels interesting... I think I could get behind it anyway.
A BROTP I have with said character: Stennnyyyyy although I ship stenny a lot too :)) They're such goofballs together and get up to a lot of stupid bullshit. Stan and Cartman are really interesting too, their dynamic is so complex. Stan seems so unbothered by Cartman and I think Cartman kind of knows it and has a sort of respect for Stan. I mean, clearly he likes the guy since he let the pangolin live just because Stan was crying. That's so interesting to me, I need to explore it more.
A NOTP I have with said character: Stary. I don't know why. I have no reason for it. It bothers me soooo much for no reason. Not too keen on Staig either, though I mind it less.
A random headcanon: He has BPD and ADHD. Also he's a short, stocky guy, and pretty strong, especially from working on the farm! I think he still plays sports and stuff as he gets older but it becomes less of a core interest because boardgames take over, and I like the idea that he likes doodling a lot, and isn't that bad at it :)
General Opinion over said character: I love Stan so much. I need to protect him... Look at him. Little scrimblo. Baby.
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lovecatsys · 11 months
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Quentin for the ask game?
one aspect about them i love
he knows, deep down, how to do the right thing and how to be a good person. but his motivation to actually do that depends on whether or not he is being treated with basic respect. He has a troubled history, but a lot of people don't really see past his drug induced anarchy phase, or the future Phoenix thing, and understand that he is really hurting on the inside. Teachers dont trust him, they have this ingrained view of him as a pest, of a hopeless case who's bound to go evil. But they don't realize that if they really tried to understand him, really made an effort to treat him like all their other students, he would clean up his act, and see that he can be loved. This is especially and obviously evident in Generation X, when Benji becomes his friend, and Jubilee makes an effort to understand him, he gets inspired to be a hero for once, and saves Jubilee's life by restoring her powers and making her human (as in, not a vampire) again.
one aspect i wish more people understood about them
Honestly just everything I explained above. But also I wish people understood that he's just a traumatized kid. Really, that's all it boils down to. He acts out because he doesn't feel loved.
one (or more) headcanon(s) i have about this character
He is trans. This kid is so trans its like unbelievable.
I also kind of go back and forth between headcanoning him as bi, or as gay.
one character i love seeing them interact with
Benji, his friendship with Benji is like so fucking important to me. Literally Benji just had this belief in him that Quentin was good, deep down, and Quentin saw this, and it really inspired him to try and do better. I wish this would come back but obviously that would require Marvel to remember that Benji exists lmao. And it probably wouldn't happen in the shitty X-Force book going right now.
one character i wish they would interact with/interact with more
I lowkey ship him and Brian Cruz/Tag, mostly because of House of M, where Brian and Quentin in his original form (brown hair, shy nerd, no breakdown having happened) were best friends and highkey gay for each other (which I'm not surprised about seeing as Weir and DeFillippis seem to see Brian as gay) and also because the prospect of Brian falling for Quentin who is like, very similar Julian, who Weir and DeFillippis were thinking of having Brian have feelings for, so like the prospect of Brian ending up with Quentin instead of Julian is pretty funny to me. If I was going to canonize Quentin's queerness, I would put him with Brian personally. (obviously i would develop their relationship over the story, seeing as they have no canon relationship at all so far, and it would have to be far enough in the future where Brian isn't still a teenager)
one (or more) headcanon(s) i have that involve them and one other character
Okay this technically involves two characters, but I think that Zach/Amp from Iceman should like. look up to both Quentin and Julian, since they're so similar and they're both just old enough to be mentors to him, but they constantly fight over him. Julian wants Zach on his silly little squad of kids that he's looking after (including Curse, Brutha Nature, Maxim and Manon, they're like the rivals to the Lost Club) and Quentin is just NOT having it so he tries to steer Zach away from Julian, and its just a whole thing. (Zach has a lil bit of a crush on both of them too but obviously he's too young to pursue something with them). Quentin and Julian having a rivalry is so important to me because I love them both and they have so much in common but they're both divas and can't handle the other's energy. Zach meanwhile is becoming Little Mean Guy #3 and they both want a chance to be his mentor.
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valenteal · 6 days
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My opinion as a newbie in the mha fandom
Ok so I finally got into mha. I don’t actually like it but once I watched most of seasons 1-4 on Netflix and watched some YouTube videos summarizing shit I was able to get into fan content without being majorly confused. And I love the fandom?! Or at least the content that comes from it. Idk a lot of people seem really opinionated about it and kinda aggressive? Which I can’t really understand because canon isn’t even that good and the only way I can stand it is by changing some things in my head. As far as I can tell most people do this? But it ends in everyone having wildly conflicting views of all the characters and like… not going back to canon to remember where they got their version from and see how someone else may have gotten something different? Or people are getting pissed because other’s aren’t being true to canon, which is bullshit because that’s literally what fandom is for… anyway I am having a lot of fun actually. I tried to watch the anime a couple times but I just didn’t like it and wasn’t motivated enough to push through it but now I’m wishing I could watch more of it (stupid Netflix only has 4 seasons cmon man I wanna see more Hawks!!!!!!!).
Anyway I adore all the different variations on the characters, like no one characterizes anyone the same way and no matter how many times you read the same scenarios with the same characters it’s always wildly different and entertaining! I this the greatest thing about having a large fandom built around a not so great original piece is how creative everyone gets. Everyone builds off each other and create something entirely different from the original and everyone gets to run wild and have a blast. I especially love how so many people have taken the Todoroki family and told so many different stories with them, weather it’s about forgiveness or revenge or moving on. Dabi is objectively insane and totally unhinged in canon but I love when people make him a bit more rational and in touch with his feelings. I also love seeing him go nuts and burning shit to the ground. I love seeing all the interesting relationships we don’t see enough of in canon expanded upon.
So far Dabi, Hawks, Bakugo, and Shoto are my favorites which, that’s 4 characters why the hell are they all guys? Obviously because the female characters aren’t nearly as well developed and that does piss me off quite a bit. The whole show is horribly sexist to the point where I don’t understand how anyone ever got through it without fan content to motivate them. Like they put in a token effort with making the girls just as powerful but I cannot get over the objectification or the way none of the girls really get their own serious arcs or backstories. At the same time the fandom is full of really positive feminism?! Like the sexism drew to much attention to itself so everyone was like ‘nope we’re fixing this ourselves’ and then did?!
Although I do have to say that people may have gone a bit overboard with the lgbt representation in the fandom because there are like no popular straight ships which is a bit disappointing to be honest. I like queer representation but this is not just representation at this point because it’s left female characters seriously sidelined in any romance centered fics. Straight people do actually exist and queer people do actually have straight relationships sometimes and it’s really sad that all the most popular ships are made exclusively of men. I actually really like Shoto and Momo, partially because that was one of their feeble attempts at making themselves seem not sexist (though they failed through sheer sexualization) but also because I just think they’re cute.
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moscarific · 6 months
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Yuletide Letter 2023!
Dear Exceptional Human,
I am beyond delighted that you’re writing for me! I’m a gold star Yuletide participant: I’ve signed up every year, and written at least one story every year, since the challenge began. That’s great news for you, because over the years, I’ve learned that the best Yuletide gifts are the ones that weren’t quite what I had expected, and also that gifts are satisfying and joyful for me as long as it’s clear that the author put effort and care into them. Basically, as long as you avoid my Do Not Wants and run spell check, I’m going to be over the moon with excitement at whatever you write for me.
My biggest non-obvious DNW is babyfic. No pregnancy, no babies, no little kids. I’m also a grumpy Jew, so I’d prefer not to receive stories with strong Christmas themes. The “five things” format is not my favorite. Please don’t center your story around ships that I did not ask for.
While questions of gender and sexuality are baked into several of my requests this year, I am not looking for issuefic centered around negotiating those identities. I’d rather read about queer and/or BIPOC folks doing stuff in the world. Should you bring up how race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, and body type figure into doing stuff? Yes, please. Should the entire fic be a Socratic dialogue about how marginalization impacts the characters’ lives? Not my first choice.
But I like a lot more things than I dislike! I usually read my Yuletide gift(s) while riding the L down to Chinatown for my family’s annual dim sum feast, so please give me something to make me smile, laugh out loud at, or feel uncomfortably aroused by on public transportation. Porn is optional, obviously, but: oral sex, eroticized hands, exhibitionism, shower sex, gender play. I like experimental structures and styles, as well as more standard ones, and I am fine with whatever POV and tense you choose. If you are the kind of person who does multimedia or interactive fiction, or just clever footnotes, I am all for that. I love worldbuilding, whether it’s adding detail to a sprawling superhero universe or fleshing out the local color of a small American town. I like stories that stick close to canon or present interesting “what if” canon divergences, and I also like superhero and In Space AUs.
I've been on a bit of a hiatus from fandom lately, but when I'm not, I tend to write the fic I want to see in the world. You’ll get a good sense of me by browsing my AO3 account. My AO3 bookmarks are a recs list, and therefore a great way to see what kinds of fic appeal to me and make me happy.
Here are the individual requests from my sign-up, with a little more detail added here and there. 
Some Like It Hot (1959 movie): Jerry "Daphne"
Every time I watch this movie, I'm more aware of Daphne being some kind of non-binary or genderqueer, and I would love a story that expands on that in some way. Tell about what happens to Daphne after the film - does he attempt to live as a woman, go back to presenting as a man, or find a period-consistent way to exist somewhere between the two? How does his marriage to Osgood work out? I will swoon for detailed historical accuracy, especially about 20th century queer subculture, jazz, or resort culture. Or go to another extreme, and retell the film's story In Space. I'm not sure it's possible to be as briskly and effortlessly funny as this movie, but I'd prefer a story that stays close to its silly, madcap tone. I have a sort of time-displaced horniness for young Jack Lemmon, so do with that what you will. Note that I'm using "he/him" for Daphne, because that's what he uses in the film, but feel free to use other pronouns if they fit your vision of the character better.
DNW: Stories centered around pregnancy, babies, or raising children. Strong Christmas/winter holiday themes. Prolonged despair, depression, self-harm, or suicide.  Extensive, graphic descriptions of homophobic violence or sexual violence. Phonetic representations of accents or “broken English” used for comedy (I’m especially sensitive to this when it comes to native Spanish speakers).
Poker Face (TV 2023): Charlie Cale
Charlie Cale immediately became one of my favorite TV detectives ever, and what I want from fic is simply more of her, solving mysteries in her quirky way. Basically, I want casefic, however you want to define that. Set the story in your hometown and bring it to life for me, or highlight a subculture you know a lot about. Or give me drag queens, figure skaters, or an academic conference, the weird cultures that are close to my heart. Crossovers with other fandoms are welcome, especially if they feature Charlie inserted into other media, solving a murder in that universe. (Poker Face in Discworld? Poker face on Deep Space Nine?) Keep the show's dry wit and down-to-earth tone as much as you can, and feel free to play with time and tell the story out of order, as the show often does. Explore how Charlie's lie detector powers and her talent for crime-solving have affected her, and how these abilities work in her head. What I'm looking for is a lost episode of Poker Face - either one that could be an actual episode of the show, or something improbable but fun.
DNW: Stories centered around pregnancy, babies, or raising children. Strong Christmas/winter holiday themes. Extensive, graphic descriptions of homophobic, transphobic, racist, or sexual violence. Phonetic representations of accents or “broken English” used for comedy (I’m especially sensitive to this when it comes to native Spanish speakers). Copaganda - depictions of the police as exceptionally noble or heroic, above the law, or justified in violence or manipulation. I'm not interested in more than passing references to romantic relationships for Charlie.
Gen V (TV 2023): Jordan Li
I'm in new fannish glow for this show, and I'll be excited to read anything that develops Jordan's character. They're an officious asshole, and I love them in their prickly, self-righteous, antihero messiness. In fact, one story I would love to read is Jordan doing something horrific, intentionally or by accident, and dealing with the consequences of that villain turn. I'm also very into all of Jordan's romantic and sexual relationships, the ones shown onscreen (primarily Marie) and the ones implied or suggested (Luke, Professor Brink). How do Jordan's ability and gender identity interact with their relationships? I'd like to learn more about Jordan's experiences at God U. before the show begins, or about what they're like many years into the future. Gen V is full of gratuitous gore and sex, so feel free to pile on the gross-out and grindcore elements if they're fun for you. If not, I'm happy to read about Jordan in a quieter moment. There's a lot of worldbuilding to be done in this universe, so another option is to use Jordan as the narrator or center point for exploring the world more broadly.
DNW: Stories centered around pregnancy, babies, or raising children - this includes stories about Jordan's childhood, and especially stories that make more than passing mention of childhood abuse or narcissistic parenting. Strong Christmas/winter holiday themes. Extensive, graphic descriptions of homophobic, transphobic, racist, or sexual violence. Some degree of sexual coersion and manipulation (dubious consent) is fine in this fandom, but no overtly non-consensual sex. Misgendering characters or using pronouns other than those established in canon.
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aro-and-tired · 2 years
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Since people are arguing whether or not alloromantic people should ship aro characters, I’d like to give my opinion. Now, I’m not going to say that you or can’t do something, I’m just a random person on the internet and I’m not the ultimate authority of what can or can’t be done. You want to write that aro character in a romantic relationship? No one is stopping you. But more than doing or not doing something, I’d like it if people were coherent, honest, and aware.
Coherent - is your reaction to a character being aromantic the same as a character being another queer orientation?
Say there was a character who was a gay man, or a lesbian. Say I decided to write them in a relationship with a person of the other binary gender. I could tell you that some gay people still have relationships with members of other genders and that some gay people still describe having very strong feelings for those partners, that maybe they weren’t really attracted to them but they still cared deeply about them.
If you would say “you can’t ship gay people with someone of another gender no matter the circumstances”, but see no issue with shipping aro characters because some aros are romance positive, you are not being coherent, you have a double standard there.
If you would tell me “I don’t think you actually care about those gay people who have had that sort of relationship, you are just co-opting their existence to justify a ship”, but then get mad if someone accuses you of co-opting romance positive aros for your ship, you have another double standard.
If you would say “yes, some gay people can have romantic relationship with people they aren’t attracted to, but it’s a delicate topic and if you haven’t lived that experience you risk writing a narrative that hurts a lot of people”, but then think anyone can ship an arospec character without any particular research on how to do it, that is another double standard.
Honest - when you say you are writing that character as a romance positive aro or as arospec, are you really doing that, or are you just writing an alloromantic character with the serial numbers filed off?
We’ve all heard of show, don’t tell, so once you’ve told me you think that character is romance positive aro, show me. Make the character open their mouth in the story and say they are aromantic. Show me their internal feelings, the way they care about their romantic partner but not in a romantic way. Give me a grey- or demiromantic character being taken aback by their feelings, not knowing how to deal with them. Have your arospec character set boundaries in the relationship that most people don’t have. Give me an allo partner who is supportive, or confused, or otherwise feels some sort of way about their aro partner’s identity.
If your aromantic character in a romantic relationship is written just how you would write an alloromantic, then you are not writing an aromantic character. Either be honest with me and tell me you have decided to ignore that character’s identity, or put some effort into it.
Aware - are you aware of your own biases?
You see, fandom has always had trends of certain minorities being pushed aside. A few years ago, it was women - the amount of misogyny in some fandoms, especially in m/m fic, was staggering. Female characters in fic would get bashed and villanized all the time, even if that character had never done anything wrong in canon. While this problem has somewhat abated, fandom still has issues with portrayal of characters of color, who get ignored, or shoved into stereotyped roles. If you have been in fandom for more than a few weeks, you have probably seen a lot of these discussions crop up.
And if a specific person hates a specific female character, it doesn’t mean they have internalized misogyny. If a specific person prefers the white character to the character of color, it doesn’t mean they are racist. But if fandom as a whole ignores a fleshed out, compelling, important character of color in favor of the white side characters, there is a bias there. Again, it doesn’t mean everyone who prefers the white character is actively racist - but fans of color will still get the message that they are not welcome. It is always worth sitting down and thinking do I really not like this [insert minority] character, or is there an internalized prejudice informing my decisions?
A similar thing happens with aromantic character. Do you really think that character is romance positive, or are you just arophobic? Do you really think that those characters have chemistry, or has amatonormativity just conditioned you to see romance everywhere? And is your fandom, as a whole, biased against aromantic people? Do you think that dozens - if not hundreds, for some fandoms - of alloromantic authors writing only about romance positive aros in romantic relationship will make real romance positive aros feel seen? Or are you sending the message that aromantic people only matter if they can be put in a romantic relationship, that romance repulsed and nonpartnering aros are uninteresting?
Once again, I can’t tell you what to do or what not to do. If you thought this post is a load of bullshit, I also can’t change your mind there. If you want to tell me that it’s just fanfiction and it doesn’t matter, you’re entitled to write whatever fanfiction you want to write. Just kindly start being honest with all of us and tag your content as “alloromantic [character]” so we are all clear on what’s going on. You can’t honestly tell me you wouldn’t be mad if you went looking for a character that represents your identity but then what you found was all deeply alienating if not straight up -phobic, so don’t expect aros to be happy if 90% of content that features aro characters turns them allo.
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writer-monster · 3 years
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11 reasons why cap 4 should reintroduce Bucky Barnes as the love interest, an essay
to start this off, i am not writing this essay from a shipping place nor do i believe that this would have any influence at all over the upcoming movie. i expect nothing. this is simply something that i would personally like to see. (of course no hate to anybody who thinks differently)
here are 11 reasons why i think making Bucky into Sam Wilson's love interest in Cap 4 would be a good move for Disney.
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1. on the Chinese film market - and why it's an irrelevant argument against the inclusion of homosexual themes in Cap 4
the Chinese film market is something that has been blamed for a lack of diversity in Hollywood films a lot lately. many people claim that this market with a lot of buying power has been responsible for the lack of gay and black representation in particular within Hollywood films.
and we have certainly seen Hollywood treating it as such, going so far as to cut gay scenes from movies for their Chinese releases, and vastly minimising John Boyega's (a black actor's) presence in the Chinese poster of Star Wars The Force Awakens.
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[image ID: on the left is an image of the American poster for Star Wars The Force Awakens, featuring John Boyega prominently on the right-hand side. And on the right is the Chinese poster for the same movie, in which John Boyega is barely visible.]
so we know at the very least that Disney believes this through their own actions and efforts to self-censor for the different markets.
but Captain America 4 is a black-led movie, don't you forget. and Disney can't minimise Sam Wilson/Anthony Mackie in the movie or the poster because it's his movie and his poster. and no amount of creativity in the editing room can change that (thank God!).
so if by their own argument the film is already going to be either banned, panned or slammed in China... then what do they have to fear from making it a gay movie too?
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2. oh, the queerbaiting
queerbaiting is an unusual cultural idea. and sometimes i find myself thinking that the term is far too easily used, but then all of a sudden i will stumble upon a movie or show that is so quintessentially cruel and overt in it's... well... queerbaiting that i will start to wonder what the hell kind of a bizarre relationship all these straight people seem to have with their friends. take Troy and Abed from Community or John and Sherlock from Sherlock as the perfect examples of this. (in which my reaction to the show's creators saying the show wasn't gay was to ask so then why did you make it so gay?!)
i felt that Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes in tfatws were getting quite close to this level of queerbaiting.
there was the field scene, the couple's counselling scene, the boat scene, the couple's counselling scene, Bucky going with Sam to face Karli when she told Sam to come alone, the couple's counselling scene, ALL the staring scenes, Sam checking out Bucky's ass here as they said goodbye, the "i would move in with him but" hidden scene, "Uncle Bucky" showing up at the cookout scene, the romantic walking off together into the sunset together ending scene, and the couple's counselling scene. did i forget anything? but i mean seriously, the couple's counselling scene!!! that thing they did with their legs and their crotches while staring deep into each other's eyes, would any straight guy willingly do that? do straight guys crotch-snuggle now?
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[image ID: an image of Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes during the therapy scene with the quote, "Isn't anybody going to drag me into impromptu couple's therapy and slot my legs firmly between theirs before staring deeply into my eyes?"]
(yeah i stole this image from a buzzfeed article on the fan reactions to the couple's therapy scene. but given that they stole 80% of the content of that article from fandom tumblr, i think it's pretty even-steven.)
there's also the fact that people started talking about bisexual Bucky Barnes a lot after the tiger pictures line, and the lead writer Malcom Spellman responded to the talk of Bucky's bisexuality with "just keep watching". well we watched, Malcolm. but it's beginning to feel like you were just jerking us around.
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3. the writing
seriously though, what else is Bucky Barnes doing right now in the MCU? his only remaining connection to anything going on right now is through Sam. there is literally nothing else established that's left for him to do that doesn't involve Sam. he moved to Louisiana to be closer to Sam (canonically), he hangs out with Sam's family (canonically), and Steve is presumably gone and is definitely not coming back for more adventures.
he has no villains or loose ends left. he has no other superheroes that he appears to be in contact with. he has no girlfriend or potential love interest, or even other friends or family. he is living in a tent that he has secretly set up in Sam's backyard and is mysteriously appearing from the bushes when it's time for dinner like a stray cat.
in my opinion there is no other meaningful and pre-established progression for Bucky's character that wouldn't just feel cheap.
plus, i don't think the general audience would be all that surprised if they kissed. i think a LOT of people picked up on all that tension. i think a lot of straight people picked up on all that tension too.
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4. the chemistry between the actors & the chemistry between the characters
the original pitch for tfatws was essentially just this, it was the chemistry between Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie and their respective MCU characters of Bucky Barnes and Sam Wilson.
now obviously Anthony and Sebastian are simply friends, and i wouldn't mean to imply anything more. but they are also not their characters.
Sam and Bucky's scenes together before tfatws were both limited and short, and yet audiences still fell in love with the dynamic between the two characters.
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in interviews, these two actors are constantly slipping into character and flirting with each other and frankly it's adorable. plus it's really entertaining. i'd love to see that dynamic, unfiltered, in a movie.
because believe it or not the flirting is actually even more open in their interviews than it was in tfatws. and i'm leaving some links as proof.
this here is known as the "married" compilation
and here's a "lucky dip" selection of interviews - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
and here's Anthony trying to get Seb to take his jacket off.
i'm just saying, why not let their chemistry shine? these two are so talented and so entertaining, especially when you put them in a room together. and can you imagine how absolutely hilarious and brilliant it would be to watch them navigate being a couple?
(and for those who bring up the "friends would be uncomfortable pretending to be dating" argument, i'm not here asking for a sex scene or anything. i don't think anyone would expect them to show any more intimacy (physical or emotional) while playing a couple than what they've already shown together in say... tfatws or in their own interviews. not that i actually expect anything regardless.)
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5. if they were a man and a woman they would've gotten together in tfatws
i have no more to add here. just that... yeah, they would've.
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6. and i'm not talking about the comics here, i'm talking about the MCU.
i understand fully that none of what i'm saying here falls in line with these characters from the comics. but the mcu itself doesn't fall much in line with the comics either, and these two characters especially are very different from their comics counterparts.
i'm not asking for these two to get together in the comics. tbh i don't think that it would work.
but the mcu Sam and Bucky are different and closer than their comics counterparts. they've got different histories, different backstories, and a very different dynamic. please rest assured that i am only talking about them in the mcu.
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7. Bucky Barnes is believably bisexual. and Sam Wilson has never been proven to be straight in the mcu, nor has he had a love interest.
(now please continue to keep in mind that these points only stand for the mcu versions of Bucky Barnes and Sam Wilson, and not at all for their comics counterparts.)
Sam Wilson has never had a love interest, which is crazy because have you seen that man! he has had two blink and you'll miss it moments of verbal expression of attraction to women, both in TWS. and that's the extent of it, through his entire history in the mcu.
Bucky Barnes has had a number of surface-level female love interests, but none of them even came close to the level of connection and chemistry that Bucky shares with Sam.
and i'm sorry SarahBucky fans, but i just don't think there's very much to their relationship either. i love Sarah, i really do. but it's Sam who shares all the meaningful moments and history and chemistry with Bucky. and i don't see what making her into a love interest would do for Sarah's character either, what would that add to her story?
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[Picture ID: Bucky at the cookout with Sam, Sarah, Cass and AJ. Bucky and Sam are looking at each other and smiling.]
and also there is the whole tiger pictures thing... again. which does strongly suggest that Bucky is bisexual whether this was intentional on behalf of the writers or not.
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8. it's representation... AND it feels natural
marvel hasn't had a lot of queer representation that's been noticeably present in the MCU at the time of writing this.
there have been a lot of failures so far, from the bisexual erasure of Valkyrie in Thor Ragnarok to the wlw erasure in Black Panther.
there was queerbaiting almost identical to the bisexual Bucky baiting for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2. when asked if he had considered featuring a gay hero in gotg2, director James Gunn stated that "We might have already done that. I say, watch the movie." after the movie's release audiences were understandably confused about the lack of queer representation. To which the director followed up his comments with, "But we don't really know who's gay and who's not. It could be any of them."
there is also Loki, considered by most fans after the airing of his six episode series on Disney+ to be both a poor attempt at both genderfluid representation and bisexual representation. with both attempts being summed up fairly well by the term "blink-and-you'll-miss-it". (also it's just terribly written and Loki doesn't wear any interesting clothes! fanficcers are a Goddamn blessing in this hard time!)
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and let us not forget that Andrew Garfield was apparently FIRED for pushing for a bisexual spiderman. a bisexual spiderman within an interracial mlm relationship no less.
so for all these failures, marvel, why not allow us queer fans this? two brilliant and heroic men in a loving interracial relationship. two heroes that we can look up to.
now, one of the biggest detractions from the argument for representation is the idea of "forced diversity". and some poorly written characters certainly do end up feeling forced into the narrative. take Iceman in the comics for example, with Jean Grey just straight up suddenly telling him he's gay. like, marvel, sweetie, that's not how this works! and i don't know a lot of queer people who thought much of that "representation".
but the crux of the "forced diversity" argument is almost always that it feels unnatural within the story, right? and i don't think that anyone could say that about MCU Sam and Bucky ending up together, given these characters' existing chemistry and their history. they've both played characters in gay relationships before so we know that it's not outside of either actor's wheelhouse. and y'all know that Anthony and Seb can act, people. if it's in the script i believe that they'll make it seem like the most natural thing on earth.
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9. it'd be a nice change
there's been an ongoing meme lately about "Disney's first gay character", the joke being that they continually announce gay characters without really ever including gay characters in their films.
this is to the point where Disney has formed a reputation amongst queer audiences of being homophobic.
if Sam and Bucky were to become a couple, then Disney could have its first actual gay character within a gay relationship. AND have him be in the lead of his own movie, no less.
it's also worth keeping in mind that there's likely an overlap between the people who were outraged by a Sam Wilson Captain America, and the people who'd be outraged by a gay Captain America. and if they were already not seeing the film, then i don't think much is gonna change that.
queer audiences would definitely love it, and the media attention would be guaranteed to be huge. i mean, simply look at the amount of media attention mere rumours of a character's queerness gets you and multiply that by a canon confirmation of said rumours.
but i'm pretty sure that Disney already knows this.
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10. and yet, in truth, it's not about the representation
in truth i've never felt that i had any trouble relating to characters of any sexual orientation, race, gender, sex, body type, etc. (although that is not to throw any shade at all on people who do wish to see themselves represented) but for me, i think it's more about the story than the packaging.
and yet, a love story is still just a story. straight or queer, monoethnic or interracial. when two characters have chemistry and history and have sacrificed for each other time and time again, and they also can't keep their hands or their eyes off each other, then i'm pretty sure that that's a love story.
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straight or queer, monoethnic or interracial, it shouldn't be about these simple labels. it should be about how well written the relationship is. it should be about chemistry, and history, and sacrifice.
because i'm fucking sick of all the hollow, forced romances in media no matter the genders of the participants. i'm sick of lazily written, shallow relationships where any two people sharing the same space for any extended period of time will simply fall in love. it's boring, it's repetitive, and as a writer myself it drives me up the wall!
romance stories suck! and everyone knows that romance stories suck. between twilight, and most of the entire YA genre, and love triangles (so boring), and romance used as poorly-written throwaway subplots in Hollywood movies, the world is in agreement that the romance in western media is simply dreadful. and yet we still want love stories. it's an entire genre that sits at the heart of the human experience (<3), and yet one which so few of today's best known writers seem truly able to capture.
i don't think that i'm the only one who feels this way, either. i suspect it's actually a large part of why fandom is so romance-centred in the first place, that we're all just starving for a good love story.
(btw i think fandom has a reputation for being something that as a whole that it is not. it has this reputation for straight up demanding things and harassing people until they get their way. while unfortunately there are a few people who do this, they're fucking annoying and i swear that they're far from the majority.
in my experience fandom is mostly about writing a five thousand word story at three am while drunk off your ass because it might make someone whom you've never met smile, editing it in the cold light of day, and then posting it. expecting nothing. sometimes getting nothing. and sometimes getting someone send you kudos or a comment so heartbreakingly wonderful that it makes you smile in return.)
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11. so once again, it is all about the writing.
i want to see Sam and Bucky get together in the mcu, not because they would be a gay couple but because i genuinely believe that their story has potential to be an amazing love story.
and i know the mcu isn't about the romance. it's why in my personal opinion we haven't gotten a lot of good canon romances besides Peter Quill and Gamora. and i don't think that the mcu should be all about the romance either. i fucking love the action and the fighting scenes. i love the comedy. Captain America: The Winter Soldier had no romance and it was a fucking treasure, it was an amazing spy-action-thriller and it made my little gay heart dance. Thor Ragnarok had no romance, and it was an utterly brilliant comedic spectacle action film. not every movie needs romance.
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but mcu Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes were doing couple's therapy and fixing a boat and walking off into the sunset together in tfatws. they were inseparable on the battlefield. they've got a dynamic. it's beautiful, it's romantic, and it's gold.
a budding relationship between them in the next movie would be a good way to explore both characters more without the narrative feeling too stilted and separate. at the end of tfatws, both Sam and Bucky fans found that their respective fave felt somewhat underutilised and that their characters were underexplored.
now, that problem would be even more difficult to remedy in a movie, because the plotline of a movie needs to be really tight to work (giggity). and we know that the central conflict of the movie is gonna be action-based (which is good), but we still need each character's personal journey and growth to tie into the main conflict. (which is another issue that some fans found with tfatws, that these characters didn't really feel connected to the action-based plot on a more personal level.)
if Sam and Bucky are already in a relationship, however, this whole dynamic changes. first, their relationship has already been set up for nicely since TWS and through tfatws and they would officially be the best-fleshed-out couple in the mcu. but most importantly, a relationship gives them a perfect vehicle to explore both of their pasts comparatively and connect them personally to the action-based plot.
do you want to establish that Sam is a little too trusting and naïve? then establish this through his relationship with Bucky, and through showing his placing his trust in Bucky. (rather than through having him sympathise with a villain who threatened to murder his sister and his nephews).
perhaps you want to show Bucky recovering from his trauma? show us how comfortable he is with Sam. they get along, they're enjoying each other's presence, we see more of Sam's life and of his family, and then let Bucky tell Sam something that's raw and dark and honest about his life as The Winter Soldier. something about a memory, one that he only just recalled. he's opening up. and maybe what he tells Sam is even something that sets up the future action-based conflict, to ground that in something real.
you want to explore that Sam has trauma too? do this through Bucky. he tells Bucky a story about his time in the military. in the form of a flashback, he shares his own story of loss to evoke before the audience the shared theme of feeling at fault even when you're simply a helpless bystander to an act of pure destruction.
then, action sequence! and it's directly connected to Bucky's time as the Winter Soldier. explore the grief of someone whose life the Winter Soldier tore apart manifesting into a villain perpetuating the cycle of pain. establish your villain.
Later, Sam is dragged into battle against this villain for protecting Bucky. But Bucky doesn't want Sam to protect him. He feels guilt for what he can't control and he doesn't want Sam getting hurt because of him. Bucky reminds Sam that he has a family, one who needs him and who loves him. He tells him to go home.
Sam reminds Bucky that he's a part of that family. And that sure Sam's a hero and his job is to protect anyone and everyone, but that he's doing it because he wants to. It's not simply to prove that he can, or to prove that he's not a bystander (this connects to Sam's trauma here), but that he's doing it to help people.
and this gets Bucky thinking about who he is and what he's doing here. is he a hero who stands by Sam's side? or is he an ordinary man who stands aside? or perhaps, does he stand alone? what does he stand for? Maybe Sam knows. But does Bucky?
Sam and Bucky fight off the villain again, and for the first time Bucky meets this adversary face to face. And Bucky recognises this villain, and has a flashback to the genuine pain that he inflicted upon them in the form of the Winter Soldier. Bucky freezes mid-fight, he almost dies, and Sam has to save him.
Sam chews Bucky out for almost getting killed because he was afraid for him. but Bucky takes this the wrong way and goes off to fight the villain alone, or perhaps to die alone, he's not quite sure.
He puts up a half-hearted fight. He apologises for what the Winter Soldier has done, and he waits for the killing blow, when Sam swoops down and he saves him. He asks Sam why he saved him and Sam calls him a moron. And then, Sam asks him what sacrificing himself would solve. He tells him that you can't choose your past but you can choose your future (connecting to his own experience of loss and guilt and grief). And that no matter what Bucky Barnes still has a future, whether that's as the Winter Soldier or the White Wolf or just some dork with a day job. And that he has a future as a part of Sam's family too.
Sam fights the villain, and it's toe to toe. He delivers a few good blows, but receives a fair few himself. And then the villain tears off his wings, first one and then the other, in a manner reminiscent of what the Winter Soldier did to him in TWS. Through Bucky's eyes there's a flashback to highlight the parallels. Sam gets back on his feet and he fights his best fight, but is now losing.
And then the heavily injured Bucky steps up and fights by Sam's side, and only together do they take down the villain.
"So... I inspired you, huh?" Sam teases with a smile, utterly exhausted. "With my heroism and-"
"You inspired me." Bucky said, equally exhausted. "Let's leave it at that."
Together, Sam and Bucky go back to the safety and warmth of their family. Sam fixes his wings. Sam goes back to being Captain America. And Bucky... he's around, but it's unclear what he's doing.
That is, until the very end. When Sam is in a fight, and suddenly Bucky shows up and helps him out.
"What are you doing here?" Sam asks.
"I've made up my mind." Bucky says. "I'm the Winter Soldier. But now I'll save lives, Sam. Now, like you, I'll be a hero."
Sam smirks. "So does this make you my sidekick, then?"
Bucky smiles. "C'mon, at least make me a partner." He says.
"How about co-workers." Sam says (in flashback, he remembers back to the death of his last on-the-job partner).
"How about friends." Bucky says, with a wry look.
"Bucky... I don't want to see you put your dumbass self in danger." Sam says.
"Oh, and it's ok for you to go running off into danger on your own all the time?" Bucky asks.
"Yes." Sam says stubbornly. "Absolutely it is."
"Why?"
"Because I'm not a dumbass?!"
"Sam, if you think I'm not gonna be watching your back for the rest of time... then you're the biggest dumbass I know. And I don't care if you need me or not, I will be there for you."
"Because Sam, you're more than Captain America. You're more than a good soldier. You're a good man. And I think sometimes, the world forgets what the difference is."
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...or something like that.
(i only spent like 15 minutes on that. you know if i were actually writing this movie i would come up with something much better. and if anyone from marvel is seeing this, yes i can come work for you. i will make the time, let's do this thing right!)
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finale
at the end of the day, whether or not the mcu chooses to make Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes a couple, it's their decision. and they don't owe me anything.
i'm just some random person on the internet. who thinks that Captain America 4 should #givecaptainamericaaboyfriend
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sergeantsporks · 2 years
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I know a lot of the Hunter ships just feel weird to me because 1 he has never interacted with any of the people that he is shipped with and 2 a lot of them act like Hunter is in a relationship with X character, his issues are now fixed when that isn't how relationships work. Friendships don't even work like that. But a lot of the ship fics act like Hunter will just be magically fixed and that more issues won't arise. Like boy is a people pleaser, at least to those that are important to him.
That's it!!! You've hit the nail on the head of my issues with fandom culture and shipping!!! I'll be apparently the first sign anyone has seen of an aroace Hunter headcanon because everyone would rather ship him with someone he's never met rather than look for an option that doesn't involve romance, and then someone feels bad about enjoying the headcanon bc he's popularly shipped!!! And no one thinks this is weird, or wrong, or unfair!!! That's just fandom culture, baby!!!! You know how there will be those narratives where everyone gets paired up in the end regardless of actual chemistry, and it's really annoying? Fandom basically does that by immediately extrapolating romance from nothing for any characters not neatly put in relationships by canon, but it's okay now bc it's queer, so like. Duh. Superior.
Okay, in all fairness. There are PLENTY of Hunter-centric fics out there that explore familial relationships and no romantic ones, I'm sure. But I unfortunately have to sift through fifty billion ambiguously-tagged ship fics and filter out 15 different ship names/ways of tagging the relationship to find them, and THEN I still have to filter out fics with content/writing styles that bothers me. It's... not worth the effort for me. I'll just write my own.
And YEAH, not to get back into the amatonormativity/allonormativity thing (I am fooling no one, you've enabled/set me off, and I'm totally enjoying venting), but that's also, like. So common. For them to be like "Yeah, well, love will fix them!" (To quote Lilith Clawthorne: Vomit). And that's just. Hrngh. it bothers me. Because romance isn't a cure all, and "love will fix them" comes DANGEROUSLY close to "you just haven't met the right person yet" in my personal aroace opinion, especially when I hc the struggling person in question as aroace. I think a lot of the angstier ship fics actually do explore the relationship struggles Hunter will probably have, but... it always feels more like it's for the Relationship Drama™ than for any kind of actual exploration of Hunter's character. Which is FINE, okay, it ACTUALLY IS. I've been kind of anti-this for this post, but actually, fanfic writers who do this: It is YOUR fic, and just because I personally would not enjoy reading it, doesn't mean that it has no value. Not everything has to be deep, sometimes a ship fic can BE a ship fic without having to be deep, we write fanfiction for fun. Heck, half of the writing requests I do don't make sense in canon context. I wrote a whole story where they had an evil laugh contest, and relationships were assumed, past therapy was assumed, you don't HAVE to set all that up. Sometimes people wanna write some fluffy date fics for a character where no one has any issues, and you know what? That's okay. Creating a scenario where it's assumed that the issues have been fixed and these two can have a healthy relationship is fine. Sometimes people wanna write Relationship Drama™ that just uses character flaws for drama and not heavy character exploration, and you know what? That's okay. "'Yeah, well love will fix them' is a dangerous concept when exclusively used" and "It's okay for writers to not always explore each relationship in all of it's entirety when they just wanna write a lil fic" are statements that can coexist.
That got away from me, sorry. To summarize:
- Amatonormativity and allonormativity bad
- Fandoms are overly obsessed with shipping to the detriment of aros, aces, demis, etc.
- "Personal issues go away when you're in a relationship" is ultimately a harmful concept when overused, but it's okay to create scenarios where the issues have already been resolved.
- Narrative that needs to neatly pair everyone up is annoying and it's just as annoying when done in fanon.
- I will die on the Aroace Hunter hill, Dana, I'm begging you to at least not put him in a canon relationship.
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captain-hen · 3 years
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thoughts on the canonical possibility of buddie?
okay, i have a LOT of thoughts lol, so enjoy the ride!
let me start off by saying that i'm actually pretty optimistic about buddie possibly becoming canon. i know it might seem like a long shot to some, but i have a good feeling about this!
i think it's pretty obvious by now (and i'm pretty sure that the writers and directors must have realized it too) that having canon buddie would really be the easiest direction for the show to go.
it saves on the problem of having the introduce more characters, especially with the main ensemble being pushed to it's limits.
the show doesn't have to deal with the main problem that will undoubtedly arise if buck and eddie got other love interests: a) introducing female characters and giving them zero development, this reducing them to mere love interests and irritating the audience by the misogyny of it all, or b) developing these characters but at the cost of the screentime of the main ensemble, thus annoying the audience bc we're obviously going to be more invested in the mains. having canon buddie wouldn't pose either of those problems.
911? would? literally? make history? to my knowledge, there's no other tv show that would have this level of build up and slow burn for a queer couple. the longest build up i've ever seen for a queer couple has been like...little over one season. and don't get me wrong, a lot of these ships are adorable and amazing even without the build up, but let's admit it, something about a long slow burn is infinitely more satisfying. a lot of iconic het couples on tv have had extremely long slow burns, spanning over mny seasons, and it's pretty frustrating that that much development is never put into queer couples. 911 would be a first!
this introduces the potential for so many new storylines; buck and eddie coming to terms with their sexuality, eddie having to deal with his conservative family knowing about it (because i project upon him lol and he really has been raised with that sort of traditional nuclear family mindset), the logistics of dating your coworker that they'll inevitably have to deal with and so many other things that i can't even think of right now.
i really do think we're heading in that direction, there have been so many Choices™ made in terms of directing, writing and acting made by now that it really can't be a coincidence. look at season 4 alone. they've taken the time and effort to kind of solidify buck's position as part of the diaz family unit, despite how jam packed the season has been with the addition of a new regular and all it's different plotlines. they've established twice that chris has a line to buck outside of eddie. 4x08, despite how much everyone hated it was in some ways a gold mine, it contrasted so clearly the comfortable domesticity of eddie coming home to buck and chatting about chris and his bedtime routine as compared to eddie's awkward af date with ana (where they flirted over math of all things) and that scene at the end of ana meeting chris which felt so forced, rushed and out of the blue. like...there's no way the writers aren't seeing this. these details are not that hard to notice and they've been planning and plotting the storylines for ages, not to mention they're literally trained for all this.
almost every single one of buck and eddie's storylines parallel each other to the point where it simply can't be by chance anymore! their dating storylines with ali and ana were practically identical to the point where some of the dialogue was actually repeated! buck has been paralleled to shannon on numerous occasions, most notably during the lawsuit arc. i'm sure i'm missing out on a lot of stuff. all the gifsets in the world wouldn't be enough to bring out the parallels in their character arcs.
so yeah, i do believe buddie is a long con, and they're actually heading towards being canon. is it naive of me? possibly, but i don't think i'm being overly optimistic here. i'm not even someone who usually picks up on these nuances in while watching shows, at least not immediately, but i was picking them up all the time while watching 911. so i am fairly optimistic about this. we just need to be patient about this and accept that there's a lot of things in both buck and eddie's storylines that need to be resolved before they'll even be ready for another serious relationship...this time with each other.
thanks for the ask, anon, and i hope this was at least a bit coherent! 😅
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itsonlystrange · 3 years
Text
I’d like to point out that the “it’s all just a bunch of coincidence” argument is very poor. People say that about anything they don’t like. If we’re using this argument then I could say that everytime Mileven accidentally held hands or touched or any of that lovey dovey stuff that the Mileven fandom goes nuts over is a coincidence, but I have 0 evidence that it’s a coincidence, I’m just saying it is because that’s how I, a biased person on the side of byler, sees it. And I love the Milevens that actually respect us, it’s just the toxic ones that stomp on us or rain on our parade that irritate me.
So I ask skeptical Milevens, why do you think it’s all a coincidence? Because the Duffers have gone on record multiple times saying that nothing in their show is a coincidence, so it’s odd of you to assume that it is, when that goes against everything the duffers have said.
I see a lot of people claim that all of Bylers very romantic coded scenes are just coincidences with out any real evidence solely because they want them to be coincidences.
Reminder that the duffers had to write, revise, have Noah and Finn read at the table read, rehearse, and then film all of Bylers romantic coded scenes. And do you seriously believe that nobody stepped up and said, “Hey, I think some people will start to ship this if you make your two male characters hold hands and look at each others lips.” Like on paper, that sounds romantic. And on screen, it looks romantic too! If the duffers didn’t want byler to be shown as romantic they wouldn’t have put all of that effort into Mike and Will’s romanticly coded scenes in season two. And sure, one could say they were oblivious and didn’t realize that this relationship could be seen as anything more than romantic and that one of their 100 other writers and revisors and producers didn’t step up and say “Is this really what we want to be conveying in this show when they’re just supposed to be friends?” (Which I doubt. The duffers and everyone else on the writing crew knew exactly what they were implying. And if the duffers themselves didn’t, I HIGHLY doubt that someone didn’t step up and point out how romantic some of these scenes are, especially considering multiple of their writers are apart of the lgbtq community which makes it highly more likely that someone would have realized as I’m sure their gay senses are much stronger than those of the cishet writers on the squad. ) However, byler kind of blew up after season two, so if ST didn’t mean for Mike and Will’s relationship to be seen as more than platonic, then why did they continue doing it in season three? And the thing is, we’re not “delusional” for thinking this. Hundreds of thousands of millions of people have pointed this out across all platforms. It stops being a problem with us and “seeing what we want to see” when millions of people see the same, and it becomes the writers problem for even implying that in the first place.
Here’s an example: take Lucas and Dustin. Sure, there are definitely people out there that think or head canon as either as gay, but not nearly as big of a community as the Byler community. The reason is: Lucas and Dustin don’t have queer coding. They haven’t been painted the same way as Mike and Will’s relationship has. Or Jonathan, yeah, people may head canon as him as gay, or even think he actually is, but he doesn’t have any evidence that really points up to the fact that he is, or that he could be.
The duffers aren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have written byler this way if they didn’t want people shipping it. The official ST writer account has acknowledged byler multiple times, before st3 even started filming. They knew what they were doing. If their goal was to portray Mike and Will as a simple platonic friendship, and that all of their queer coded scenes in st2 were just a coincidence, why would they continue to do it in season 3? Queer baiting is real, yes. However like I said before, the st writing team has a lot of queer and lgbtq+ members themselves, not sure why they would want to queer bait when they’re gay/lesbian/bisexual themselves.
The truth is, byler would have never made it this far if it wasn’t meant to be shipped and portrayed like more of a romantic relationship than a platonic one. They would have shut it down awhile ago. They wouldn’t be so ominous about it. Noah and Finn wouldn’t constantly dodge questions about it unless they legally weren’t allowed to answer them. The duffers wouldn’t have been so vague in the ending of season 3 or in any interviews regarding season 3 about byler. Mike and Will wouldn’t have gotten a whole segment in the official ST book, they wouldn’t have held hands! Seriously! They held hands. Did someone seriously not point out how non platonic that was?———
And use the excuse all you want, “Will was just scared. That’s why Mike held his hand.” Okay, well Max and Lucas held hands when they were both scared in the exact same episode but I guess that doesn’t count because they’re a boy and a girl and Mike and Will are two boys. ———-And it’s funny because you KNOW that if Mike promised to go crazy together with El, that would he in every Milevens Instagram bio, it’d be on merchandise, it’d be everywhere. If Mike said meeting El was the best thing he’s ever done, people would be going bat shit crazy over how romantic that is and how they’re so in love. If Mike and El fought and he ran out in the middle of the rain looking for her when he couldn’t even apologize to his real girlfriend who dumped him just hours prior, people would say that Mike was in love with El and how much he cares about her yadda yadda. But that’s the thing. It’s two boys, so apparently it has to be platonic. Because that’s just how it works in their cishet minds. ——I’d like to see a better argument then “it was all a coincidence.” Because that’s not valid. Why? Why do you think it’s all a coincidence? It’s all just fake? Please. Elaborate. Because if these romantic scenes involved Mike and El instead of Mike and Will, then they’d see. Because they didn’t have Finn and Noah rehearse all these romantic coded scenes multiple times for nothing. They literally wrote, revised, edited, rehearsed, and filmed ALL of these scenes and still went through with it. And even in season three when people really started shipping byler, they STILL directed Finn and Noah to look at eachothers lips. They still filmed the rain fight. KNOWING byler shippers existed and KNOWING this would only heighten the amount of byler shippers there are.
The duffers aren’t stupid. This isn’t a surface level show. Everything they do is intentional, they’ve said it themselves. And yes, I agree that some byler proof COULD just be apophenia, but stuff like this? Crazy together? Looking at eachothers lips? Holding hands? I’m the only one that cares about Will? Mike keeping his eyes open in the final Mileven kiss, those aren’t small little things. You’re telling me that they couldn’t find another take for that final Mileven kiss? No. Finn kept his eyes open because he was directed to do so. The duffers are writers and directors for a reason. They went to school for this. So please, I’d like to see some actual argument against byler other than “they said they loved eachother!” “It’s all a coincidence!” I’d like to see people actually counter my arguments with actual evidence. Not just “Finn says they’re in love” not just “Millie ships it!” Because interviews are not evidence. They’re instructed to create hype for the show. If David can lie about hopper being dead, Finn and Millie can lie about Mileven being in love. I don’t want the argument of “it’s been built up for 3 seasons so they won’t destroy it now.” Stancy was built up for 2 seasons and see how that turned out. And Mileven fell more in season three than it went up.
Anyways,, if you’re a polite Mileven, this isn’t for you. I love you with my whole heart. If you’re just vibing, I love you. Ship what you want to ship! Feel free to counter my argument! However, If you’re someone who calls us “delusional”, leave. The doors right there. The cast has talked about how much they hate the ship wars in our fandom, so if you’re just gonna say how stupid we are, don’t let the door hit you on the way out:)
Sorry for long post lol. Love you all
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dragynkeep · 2 years
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Hi, hello! 2016 story anon here. I didn’t know that manga was non canon… wow. When people told me about it way back when it first came out we all thought the manga itself was canon, so that’s… great. Also, saw your post about the queer rep, and when Scarlet was legit confirmed by Miles. Apparently I established Scarlet’s relationship two years before he was confirmed gay instead of one like I first thought. Yeesh. I’m glad you’re not getting much if any flack for Team AZRE tho. I guess since I’ve been dealing with this for a year I just… assumed it was the norm? Super glad it’s not.
Thanks for the advice, Owl & Luke! Moderation is on. I didn’t even know AO3 implemented that! Luckily most were guest reviews/comments so I just deleted them, but the mod will really help with the registered users. I put a little note in my tags asking for new readers to look at the CH1 notes. I’ve stopped live updating over on FF since August, but damn if they weren’t persistent on PM. Can’t do much about user reviews though, sadly. Maybe I should just delete my works on there. You’re def right, it’s not writer friendly at all, and is such a hassle to go through posting chapters. I feel bad for the peeps over there that are my “regulars” but at this point it’s either them or my sanity. Just a shame. I’ve been on FF longer than AO3, and I actually used to prefer it over AO3.
If I build up the confidence I’ll definitely send a link, thanks so much for offering to read it! Ngl the main pairing is a super obscure crack ship so I stick to my corner, might not be your cuppa. CH61 is going out next week! Also the beginning chapters are not as polished. I’m kinda embarrassed by it sometimes. I still go in and tweak them, but I’m never quite satisfied. I have converted many to the ship though. No regrets, of course!
yup, all the manga outside the official rewrite are non canon which is good because a lot of stuff in there is very questionable especially in yang’s blatant racism against blake but like. you can’t just pick & choose miles. why is 99% of it non canon except for the bit you like because it gives you queer rep that you didn’t even have to put any effort into because someone else did it for you!
it’s definitely not the norm that you’re getting this much obsessive shit over a character who’s barely a character’s sexuality & i hope it dies down for you soon. ♥ i honestly thought fanfiction.net was a graveyard, it was so surprising to me that people still actively post there but i would say a move over to solely ao3 wouldn’t be too out of pocket considering it’s much more user & author friendly. hopefully your readers will follow you over though!
i adore obscure crackships, a lot of mine are so definitely drop it when & if you feel comfortable love. ♥ i definitely get being embarrassed over earlier pieces of work, that’s me looking back at my old shit like ... * hovers hand over the mass delete button aggressively before backing down. * wheeze.
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love-takes-work · 3 years
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Steven Universe: End of an Era: Outline & Review
I wrote this review in October but never got around to posting it here
Steven Universe: End of an Era is far more than an art book–it’s also a collection of behind-the-scenes material, stories about the experience of working on the show, planning documents and associated background info, and both older versions of developed concepts AND concepts that never made it into the show. It's a huge fusion of all those elements, and it's definitely an experience!
Some low-quality images are included with my review just to give you an idea of what’s there--it’s not a good substitute for getting your own copy, but here’s a tour!
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Like the previous concept art book, Art and Origins, I'll be giving you a description of the structure and overview, while also collecting notable information for fans. Obviously just about everything is "notable" once again, but I'll aim for unique insight or perspective on the main source material, keeping the screaming about everything new to a minimum so you can also enjoy something for yourself if you pick it up. My low-quality photos should prevent people from feeling like I'm reproducing the book in any capacity. Please grab one while you can and have your own experience!
[SU Book and Comic Reviews]
OVERVIEW
The book is titled "End of an Era" for a couple reasons--obviously because it is released after the show has wrapped, but also because Gem history recently ended its "Era 2" and began Era 3--an age of prosperity and peace. The author--the person in charge of adapting all of this information into this slick, readable package--is Chris McDonnell, whose work was previously applied on the Art and Origins book.
The foreword is by N.K. Jemisin, a well-known science fiction author who's a huge fan of the show (and wrote a really excellent series that also has a weird geological connection, by the way).
And the cover, like its predecessor, is shiny and decorated with a beach scene featuring minimalistic characters--this time it's the Gems at night in front of the Temple, and on the back cover is a big pink leg ship in a cross-legged pose.
The interior covers are decorated with tons of amazing sketches of Steven and Connie on the front, and a bunch of Gem sketches on the back. Every interior page that most would leave blank is highlighted with some kind of sketch art or character exercise--it's so much to look at, so much to absorb.
The book is dedicated "For Eddie."
Its organization is different from the previous book in that it shares applicable work in chunks associated with groups of episodes rather than pertaining to different aspects of building the show.
FOREWORD
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N.K. Jemisin gives us such a great introduction to the book--apparently understanding very well that the audience of this book is full of animation enthusiasts and adult fans more than it is full of kids, and explaining that bewildering journey some adults had from blowing this show off as a silly kid thing to falling in love with it hard and fast.
The important thing, Jemisin says, is being able to trust a storyteller with your heart. And it was clear to her that Rebecca Sugar knew what she was talking about and was saying important things about identity and the radical power that comes with accepting it and demanding respect.
Important also is how we handle heroes and who gets to be one in fantasy. That's part of the reason Steven Universe speaks to so many--because we see ourselves here, and know stories can be about us. Acknowledging the power we all have to MAKE THINGS BETTER with what we fight for is so important--especially if we're going to speaking to the next generation about it.
Highlighting Rose Quartz as a "born leader" who failed and Steven as a relatable scamp who did what she couldn't, Jemisin asserts that we can save the world.
1. END OF AN ERA
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We start with an appeal to the audience to think about identity and the formative parts of our childhood--and how different it is if who you are and who you become is restricted, mocked, erased, or Not Allowed. Most people, if not ALL people, can relate to this, but for those of us with a special relationship with Steven Universe because of queer identity, this hits hard.
But it doesn't have to be anything grand to be something we respect--this show's authenticity comes largely from how personal everything is, drawn from real-life experiences and incidental truths from each artist's perspective, leaning hard on childhood and formative experiences.
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Rebecca Sugar offers some interview bits to discuss writing philosophy and why "writing female characters" was difficult for a nonbinary person who'd been socialized as a girl and a woman. Rebecca has spoken before about how frustrating it is that marketing for cartoons was SO gendered when she was growing up (and to some extent still is).
The Gems in the story are all "she/her," but on their planet they're defined by their work, not by emotion or relationships (unlike women in our society), so having them be socialized opposite to how she was and be able to claim those emotions through choice and NOT as just an expectation "as women" was revolutionary. Rebecca wants her show to tell all marginalized people that they don't deserve to be in the margins.
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Weighing in on other aspects of the show were Ian Jones-Quartey, Joe Johnston, and Miki Brewster. Ian describes feeling like at first doing SU was a thrill ride that meant they'd finally get to do all the cool stuff, but it quickly became a responsibility that he took very seriously--the need to tell a good story now that he'd been given a megaphone.
Promotional art, planning documents, character sketches, and concept art from the lighthearted to the stone serious is included, along with some very cool (sort of famous) timeline charts that track major characters' developments. It's emphasized by Rebecca that the developmental materials ARE NOT CANON (and especially are not MORE canon) compared the final show.
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There are concept sketches alongside final art for Aquamarine and Topaz in "Wanted" (with Topaz labeled "Imperial Topaz"), the Zircons in "The Trial," Blue and Yellow Diamond, and the Off Colors (including Pink Lars).
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And there's also a spread of "the two sides of Steven's life: Gem Magic and Rock N Roll" featuring Sadie Killer and the Suspects (referred to as "Buck's band")--as well as a cool "Crew Cameos" key and some concepts for short-haired Connie.
And then there's some more "finished" art with stills alongside concepts, including some background art, revision, and really cool "fairytale" art from some of the shadowplay storytelling bits. We get "Lars of the Stars," "Jungle Moon," and "Can't Go Back."
2. THE BEGINNING OF THE END: A SINGLE PALE ROSE
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In discussing the huge reveals and Gem mysteries in the show, the pacing is examined, and emphasis is put on the intended "slow burn." One of the most difficult things in the show was to strategize so that every piece that was needed to support another piece in the future was placed properly to seed what it was supposed to.
Some of the ideas they developed were more of a group effort and were fit together collaboratively (like Amethyst's being younger than the other Gems and Jasper being from Earth), while others were intended from the beginning based on Rebecca's vision (the fundamental idea of Pink Diamond's true identity, for instance, as well as Obsidian's design and sword and our Pearl not being Pink's first).
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The writing process gets a great deep dive here, including fun tidbits like how the orb in the moon base was inserted by Joe Johnston and they literally had no idea what it was for when they wrote the episode. They repurposed it when they figured out what they needed.
Rebecca credits her detailed timelines for helping keep the order straight, and discusses how other artists are sometimes flabbergasted that a storyboard-driven show can have this much detail and continuity and yet not get wrecked by the free non-scripted boarding process. But Rebecca and the Crew valued that approach and loved the way fresh eyes would handle an idea, making it come back alive, entertaining, vivid.
Several Crew members weigh in on the writing process. Lauren Hecht refers to making lots of incorrect guesses despite being on the inside. Joe Johnston recalled getting briefed on his first day and getting so excited to start working on this massive project.
Miki Brewster remembered being told Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond and being shocked--and also confused about why Ruby and Sapphire would need to be married if they're already basically married. Drew Green talks about being brought in late and getting to watch unaired episodes and a rough of the movie while eating cereal.
Ian Jones-Quartey complains about Pink Diamond's real jester-like form being leaked to the internet through a Hot Topic shirt. Rebecca piggybacks on that and says it was upsetting that the wedding was leaked because of toy fair keychains featuring Ruby and Sapphire in wedding attire. They'd always be worried about leaks, and sometimes Rebecca struggled not to talk about the reality of Pink Diamond before the reveal because she knew it would make so much more sense once the truth was out. And everything associated with Rose makes more sense once you know she's Pink--especially what happened with Bismuth, considering what we know about how Pink Diamond has a habit of treating anyone who no longer serves her interests.
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When it comes to visual cues, Rebecca also talks about intentional designs to create a feeling of unity between concepts, like the flower shapes on Pink Diamond's palanquin lining up with the poofs of Steven's hair and the star imagery of the series. Steven Sugar and Mary Nash discuss how the Human Zoo incorporated this imagery, trying to look like Homeworld with a Pink Diamond touch.
Steven Sugar, as a game nerd, liked to throw in video game references from old and modern stuff to feel like he's inserting what he's enjoying and who he is from moment to moment, while Mary Nash, who related to Sadie as a basement-dwelling young person with cult interests, liked to include stuff from MST3K and cult movies. Pearl's hand gestures get a spotlight too--her reflex to cover her mouth when Pink Diamond was being discussed was analyzed here.
A "Top Secret Visual Timeline" from 2016 is included which tells us some Diamond history. It has an earlier version of Pink Pearl's fate and does not include Spinel since the movie hadn't been greenlit. The timeline includes the birth of the Diamonds, the emergence and major story beats for each major character, and some philosophy of the driving force behind each.
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We're told that Pink Diamond straightened up, behavior-wise, after she lost her first Pearl, and that Yellow and Blue wanted to give her a planet but White only agreed to it to prove she would fail at managing a colony. Pearl, meanwhile, is so confused to have a Diamond who keeps asking her what she thinks when she doesn't believe she should have opinions.
And when Pink moonlighted as Rose to start conflict, she found herself leading an army to fight Pink's troops--then Yellow's, and eventually Blue's too. Lapis is said to be waiting for the conflict to end on Earth so she can terraform, but she gets trapped instead.
Pearl's love story with Rose is described as "an endless honeymoon" where she's free to love her, while Rose's is more like "I'm now the head of the family and I'm going to give everyone what they never had, so everyone is super special!"
Jasper is described as "adopted" into Yellow's army as the only successful Beta Quartz. And White Diamond knew that Pink Diamond was not dead--she thought she was just running away from home like a brat and would eventually be back.
3. THE HEART OF THE CRYSTAL GEMS
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Now we discuss Rose Quartz--the original Pink Diamond. How she was selfish and selfless, never enough and always too much, and how Greg was her first partner who "challenged her" to be an equal. Rebecca describes Rose as being delighted by the idea that both she and Greg reinvented themselves, but when that leads her to want to share her past, Greg isn't interested--he only wants to know who she is now, and doesn't consider the old her to be her.
Rebecca likes Carl Jung's concept of "enantiodromia," which is the idea that extremes lead to their extreme opposite. This is demonstrated in all of the Diamonds. This narrative is interspersed with drawings of Greg and Rose being cute.
But another "heart" of the Crystal Gems is its relationships--particularly, Garnet, the fairy tale romance embodied. More psychological theories are discussed with regard to differentiation in a relationship making the relationship stronger, and how they made sure that happened for Garnet during the appropriate arc. Rebecca has struggled with the idea that she, like Ruby, went straight from a "family" group to a living-with-others situation and never lived by herself. But she also learned that you can in fact develop as a person in the context of a relationship--you don't have to be alone to do it. Ruby learned that too, and chose on her own terms to be with Sapphire.
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The wedding made so much sense to Rebecca and the crew that they couldn't imagine a wholesome couple like Ruby and Sapphire not having a wedding episode. They wanted it for years: The wedding concepts always included the tuxedo for Sapphire and the wedding dress for Ruby.
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But pushback (often blamed on the conservative standards of the international market) led to negotiations trying to keep Ruby and Sapphire's relationship from being explicit. Rebecca and the Crew were very tired of this double standard, and they were especially irritated by attempts to claim a wedding wouldn't be well received by a core demographic or wouldn't make sense for Steven's character. But other shows had done weddings and Steven had been established to love weddings already.
Rebecca kept adding more elements to the wedding episode to answer all the concerns, but she didn't want to back down from explicit marriage between these characters. They deserved it. And the audience deserved to see this as wholesome, like any other cartoon wedding. Eventually they got their way and were allowed to have the wedding. But the ordered episodes were also coming to a close without promise of more, so Rebecca had to request more episodes to be able to wrap up the storyline!
And of course, there is Steven, the true heart of the team. A very interesting aside discusses Garnet's leadership and how the network pushed the Crewniverse to acknowledge Steven as the leader. This was successfully resisted throughout as well--because Garnet is the leader (unless she's incapacitated, of course). It's fantastic that this concept was preserved because too often a young male chosen one is elevated above people with more experience and knowledge because of that chosen one tradition, so it's really nice to have a show acknowledge that team leadership is more appropriate for an adult.
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4. ERA 3
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Beginning with a discussion of the Diamonds, this chapter deconstructs the dysfunctional "family" of the Diamonds (who are said to be based on tropes about evil stepmothers and stepsisters), with the thread of dysfunction originating with White Diamond.
Yellow is physical, Blue is emotional, White is judgmental, and Pink is impulsive. Some philosophy on why Pink is naturally manipulative and why she clashes so much with White is offered.
White believes her identity is to be imposed on all because she is the pinnacle of what should be--and therefore, she has the right to make decisions and statements about and on behalf of everyone. But her secret is that she can't do what the others do--act or feel or want. In trying to be everyone, she is no one.
And this becomes very important when she confronts Steven about his identity and turns out to be wrong. The triumph of Steven being totally, fully himself is a beautiful, simple revelation that's described as far more satisfying than the theories about Pink living inside him or Rose returning from his Gem.
Also discussed is Gem architecture. A lot went into this idea, and Steven Sugar weighs in to say he had to think of what it would mean for a world to have buildings but serve no human needs. That's why it's mostly focused on transport and storage. Even the broken planet is meant to indicate a place stripped for its resources, and everything serves a function that is meant to avoid looking like the human equivalents.
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And there's another layer, too: a difference between Era 1 and Era 2. Era 2 became more functional to hide Era 1's broken bits, and older Homeworld buildings still have some "ornate and ancient" feel to them. And the fact that props, tools, and even walls and doors could be living was taken from a concept Rebecca thought was horrible from old Busby Berkeley movies, where people were inanimate objects and it was portrayed as lovely. Tom Herpich helped conceptualize these living objects.
Steven dealing with "princess tropes" is discussed here too. The Pebbles (worked on with Pendleton Ward) were sort of his Cinderella's mice, and all the locked-in-a-tower, having supportive tiny friends help you, getting princess clothes made, attending a ball, having to mind your manners stuff was intentionally related to fairy tales.
The point of doing that (besides fun) was to easily invoke the feeling that Steven was being made to be someone he's not, and that he was being treated like THIS is who he really is when it isn't. White Diamond as the "evil stepmother" is discussed with regard to her detailed features and massive scale. They generally didn't put fingernails and eyelashes on characters (especially not to indicate that they were women or girls!), but they decided White would get all of these feminine markers for tradition's sake.
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Rebecca also invokes several other references that were included and describes the princess tropes as "chipping away at his integrity" setting him up for the final challenge with White.
There is again tons of concept art: Homeworld architecture, Pebbles, Diamond diagrams, background Jades and Lemon Jade Fusion, Comby, Diamond extraction chambers, and White Diamond.
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5. CHANGE YOUR MIND
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Now we finally begin to discuss Steven's identity. The "Perfect Steven," discussed in several interviews before this book's release, was an idea back in 2013; the "ultimate Steven," beefed up and shonen-looking, was far from perfect because OUR Steven is perfect, while this alpha hero Steven idea (used in Steven Universe Future) didn't belong being idolized in such a show.
They thought about having Steven fall apart into organic half and Gem half early in the show (during "Giant Woman" after a successful fusion and unfusion, even!), but they didn't try the concept until the last episode. They didn't want the "Pink" Steven to be portrayed as "better" even though he would be more powerful, so they decided he isn't whole without his organic self and he's just as much of a shell as the organic half. They absolutely did not want any ending that required Rose to be inside him or waiting to come back. But the debates were fierce--what DOES it mean to have Rose's Gem?
Ian Jones-Quartey brings in an anecdote about his own family to emphasize some of the immigrant themes that inspired aspects of the show. He had a brother who reinvented himself elsewhere away from family without resolving issues, and all the ramifications of that were explored in the show through Rose Quartz. (He is careful to say he doesn't think his immigrant experience is like being from another planet!) But he did say you can hurt your old family even if they were toxic or didn't know the real you, and you can hurt your new family by hiding your past. The Pizza family of course was also a more direct reference to Ian's Ghanaian family.
In talking about the new Fusions from this episode, Sunstone is largely described by Miki, who also got to board the Sunstone section. Sunstone was described as a cool 1990s character and the evolution just continued into making them a fourth-wall-breaking PSA dispenser. Obsidian is also discussed, with their sword being an early concept. Steven Sugar said they totally knew it would be forged in action. Obsidian being similar to the Temple design is of course another very early detail.
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The story of how James Baxter got involved with one of the final scenes (Organic Steven and Pink Steven fusing in front of White Diamond) was shared. His family was fans of the show and Rebecca Sugar took the time to drive to a birthday party for his daughter and give her a drawing. He then owed her a favor, and this was it.
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Concept art is again included, this time with sample boards, promo images, a Diamond fight concept, costume design changes for the Gems, new Fusions, the so-called "Mega Diamond" ship conglomerate, some scenes from the White Diamond confrontation, Pink Steven, multiple pages of James Baxter animation, corrupted Gems and their healed selves, and photos from the "Change Your Mind" premiere and some awards. The show has won one design-related Emmy, a Peabody Award, and a GLAAD award.
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6. STEVEN UNIVERSE FUTURE
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The book doesn't cover the movie because it got its own book, but dives right into Future. Ian Jones-Quartey emphasizes that the movie and Future are separate and different from the original show, which ENDED. After all, after that, Steven has a neck!
Some new names are invoked now: new writers Kate Tsang, Jack Pendarvis, and Taneka Stotts. They were excited to have Steven make HIS OWN mistakes instead of trying to clean up someone else's! Now, instead of doing the usual shonen anime thing and having the final battle be a big physical rumble, Steven has to make peace with himself and take an active role in coping with what all the fighting has done to him and what effect it's had on who he is (and who he wants to be). There is no sudden "I love myself!" answer, either. It's always a process.
Drew Green and Maya Petersen, who came on board as storyboarders officially in Future, also weighed in on writing for a "mature" show, how to deal with Steven being a "moral compass" while being sort of unreliable, and what they learned as Crew that they didn't know as fans. Drew didn't know Garnet never asks questions. Jack didn't realize the show never deviated from Steven's point of view. Taneka was nervous but excited to collaborate. Kate was worried about how established the show was and what to do as a new writer to contribute appropriately.
Maya was on the old Crew but not as a storyboarder, so felt like some of the "old" ideas ended up not being appropriate for the "new" Future in an embarrassing way--and dreaded the idea of dealing with Steven's emotional problems when they were similar to stuff she'd been through. She also was personally behind the idea of Steven wanting to dump his problems by becoming Stevonnie, and got to work with Etienne Guignard on inventing the Pearl creation backstory with Volleyball.
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There's some discussion of "depression hobbies," stress, and the show's pacing. And they say Etienne was entertaining at pitches. There's even some discussion of how Greg is taken off a bit of a pedestal because his terrible restrictive life in the suburbs sounded wholesome to Steven and Greg presented it negatively.
And then there is some information about how the Crew felt behind the scenes due to fan reactions and negative press. Ian discusses feeling offended when the Black characters are described as bad examples, as if their cartoonized but realistic-in-context features are automatically caricatures.
Rebecca Sugar felt beaten down by some of these narratives and began to access mental health services, inspiring some of the content of "Mindful Education." A long reflection from Rebecca discusses people's infighting about her show and what she had a responsibility to show or not show in the story. She learned a lot about bullying from Cartoon Network's anti-bullying program and learned that bullies thrive on whatever attention you give them--unless it is made clear to them by a peer group that no one is impressed by their cruel actions. Also, not all negative feedback is bullying. Constructive criticism is different. Self-awareness can help you avoid internalizing what bullies might do or say to you.
Segueing from the discussion of how people are affected by and connect with the show, we then discuss how they chose as a team what should be covered as the show came to a close. They didn't have time to do quite a few stories they wanted time for, like a Rhodonite story, a Lars side story, and Diamond "prehistory" and religion; all of it was put aside for the main arc with Steven.
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They thought people would find those stories about Homeworld and Off Color history very interesting, but so much of the show had been about Steven's Gem adventures, so keeping him mostly on Earth seemed appropriate. The acknowledgment of his battle damage, of his trauma, was necessary and real, and helpful in an important way to the core audience.
Oh, and there was some stuff about a cheeseburger tree. Don't ask.
In discussing the "reverse escapism" of the original show (Gem aliens are intrigued by everyday human culture, and realism is necessary), Rebecca says her views have changed on escapism and gets why some people want a soothing feel-better show. She acknowledged also that her own escapist dreams-come-true fulfilled in the show didn't feel like escapism because they were givens to the majority of mainstream culture, but were never guaranteed to marginalized people.
Rebecca ties in her several-times-told story about "Love Like You" and how the middle bit was when she didn't feel she was worth looking up to, and the realizations she had to tie the beginning to the end. Feeling like someone will like you less if they know you more is terrible. So sometimes a show like this can be helpful in telling people that they belong when their fantasies are things like "I want to be loved" and "I want to know I exist."
In Future, Steven has to connect to who he is and love that person--and understand that person enough to finally feel that even if he's not fixing their problems or saving their world right this second, Steven deserves his family's love and support, and they WANT to give it to him.
There's a huge amount of supplemental material in this section so there's no way I could name it all. The charts for Future's timeline are pretty straightforward, though a few episodes like "A Very Special Episode," "Why So Blue," "In Dreams," and "Bismuth Casual" aren't specifically represented and a couple are in a different order ("Prickly Pair" was conceived as happening after "Fragments" and "Homeworld Bound").
Steven feeling like a monster, having intrusive thoughts, having not forgiven the Diamonds, and getting help/moving on--it's all there.
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We have keys, color scripts, and boards for the new opening and some various backgrounds and storyboard art from episodes. Model sheets for Shep, Nice Lapis and Mean Lapis, Jasper, Steven Tag Gems, Pink Steven Powers, Monster Steven. New house concepts, Era 3 Homeworld concept art for the Diamond environments, and background art for the Reef.
New Connie and Greg designs. Concepts for Mega Pearl, the Rose Quartzes, Bluebird, and Morganite (who didn't get used). And there are some photos from recording and the conference room. There are even some extras from "Crossover Nexus," the crossover with OK K.O.!--including an unused cut scene that included Ruby and Sapphire fighting. The rest of the book is a bunch of adorable Crewniverse art--extras, blog drawings, promos, and gifts to each other.
NOTABLE
1.
The first timeline chart in the book features a cool sketch of the original Off Colors, which at the time this planning document was drafted included unused Off Colors Flint and Chert.
We knew of their existence already because of an episode of the podcast, but these two unexpectedly appeared as incidental characters in the Steven Universe Future episode "Homeworld Bound," identified only in the credits. Sad to think that instead of banding with the Off Colors, these two were probably shattered for their crime (being Quartzes who don't want to fight) and that's why we see them being repaired in this episode. Later, there's some brainstorming for types of Off Colors and "a Ruby that wants to wear limb enhancers" is mentioned as well.
2. 
It looks like there was also originally more juice to the story of tracking down the events of the war culminating in Pink Diamond's assassination.
One of the timelines talks about Steven thinking it makes sense that Pearl can't talk about her involvement because she might have been a double agent, explaining why Rose Quartz always knew what Pink Diamond was doing. It seems like that bit was supposed to be included in Garnet's version of the story she believed in "Your Mother and Mine." Seems like they originally conceived Garnet's story to inspire the Off Colors to become pirates and freedom fighters, though in the show's canon this storytelling happened after Lars had already reinvented himself the way he did.
Sadie was also supposed to be sending letters to Lars via Steven, which is funny since the "Letters to Lars" episode is just a montage Steven letter. And of course it's specified that Steven was supposed to get Pink Diamond flashbacks by going to the Palace on Homeworld.
3. 
The second chart in the book makes references to Sadie's reinvention of herself as a parallel to Lars, Greg, and Pink Diamond all doing the same thing, and how positive it is to embrace such a thing--a version of yourself that YOU create.
I love that Yellow Diamond's arm ship arm-wrestling the Cluster was always part of the plan.
There's some more explicit direction to have Connie help Steven understand the Diamonds as "strict parents," and a lot more emphasis on everyone realizing Rose had been inspired by THEM rather than them all following her.
White Diamond is presented here as if she thinks of Pink Diamond as a "daughter" (whom she now understands she has "lost"). There are notes on how the Diamonds have a responsibility to their children and should attend to it before just continuing to make more.
4.
One of the concept art images for the Off Colors features Rhodonite crouching by Padparadscha saying "Don't worry, I won't let them hurt you." It's very interesting because she DOES seem to protect Padparadscha in the show, but doesn't seem confident about it in her final version, even though it does seem like she'd be "programmed" to guard aristocratic Gems because of her Ruby and Pearl makeup. Cool.
5.
A "Crew Cameos" spread was included, which is of great interest to some of us who loved seeing the Crew insert themselves into the show. Not every SU Crew person who's been represented in a crowd was there, but this crowd included Amish Kumar, Kat Morris, Amanda Winterstein, Angie Wang, Lamar Abrams, Emily Walus, Mary Nash, Joe Johnston, Christy Cohen, Danny Cragg, Hilary Florido, Danny Hynes, Matt Burnett, Ben Levin, Elle Michalka.
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6.
The official national flower of South Korea, Hibiscus syriacus, is the name of Pink Diamond's flower.
7.
One of Steven Sugar's comments about the silhouette difference between humans and Gems points out that humans have ears. This seems to be pretty good confirmation that they are not supposed to have ears, despite that sometimes we'll see ears drawn on them in some frames.
8.
Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond is characterized in this book as "self-hating" in a really interesting way, saying that because she believed she was not capable of compassion, she practically worshiped those who demonstrated that ability and thought they were so much better than her--which is described as "intoxicating" and resulted in others being drawn to her. How interesting is that!
9.
Timelines reveal that early plans for Pink Diamond's first Pearl originally had her getting destroyed by Pink during  a game, and then her destruction was rewritten as a punishment from the Diamonds after Pink Pearl defended Pink Diamond to the other Diamonds. They went back to the idea of her getting hurt by Pink for the final version, though the cracked face and control by White Diamond was not on the agenda until they started writing "Change Your Mind."
10.
The approximate ages of the major characters, based on emergence, are revealed on these timelines. It begins with a cracked-planet-looking graphic depicting four tiny Diamonds emerging at 20,000 years ago. Some suspicious "blacked out" redacting surrounds a long timeline tail that goes back before that, which may mean there are secrets they still don't want to reveal. But the dates go like this:
20,000 years ago: The Diamonds emerge.
11,000 years ago: Pearl is custom-made for Pink Diamond.
8,000 years ago: Sapphire emerges (on Homeworld).
6,000 years ago: Ruby emerges (on a colony).
5,750 years ago: Garnet is formed.
5,600 years ago: Lapis is poofed and put in the mirror.
5,200 years ago: Jasper emerges (on Earth).
5,050 years ago: The Cluster is planted.
5,000 years ago: Amethyst emerges (on Earth).
4,500 years ago: The Crystal Gems found Amethyst.
3,000 years ago: Peridot emerges (on Homeworld).
40 years ago: Pearl found Lapis's mirror at the Galaxy Warp.
And of course we know 14 years ago Steven is born!
11.
Originally the Diamonds were based on a quartet of themes: Love, Fear, Pride, and Sorrow. It got too complicated to keep and it was abandoned, with Pink's identification of "love" being described as "particularly outdated."
12.
Notes on a sketch say that Pearl was inspired to become bold and unashamed because Pink's questions drove her to have opinions, and it's said that Rose "fell in love" with her boldness.
13.
Rebecca tells the story of driving off a ridge and getting stuck in the desert, comparing this to Ruby's tumble during her Wild West adventure and using it as inspiration. She's told this story before but here it is in print. She also included the story about using the flowers from a friend's wedding to put in Ruby's hair.
14.
Rebecca describes having to "fight" notes she was given when it had to do with Ruby and Sapphire's relationship. One she describes as NOT fighting was for a signing card depicting Ruby and Sapphire dancing. It was called "too romantic" and she decided not to worry about it since it wasn't the actual show content.
She was also scolded over her book The Answer because the powers that be expected her to downplay that relationship. She always argued that queer youth deserved these things.
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15.
Tom Herpich describes being inspired to name Blue Diamond's comb "Comby" because he was watching the news about Comey getting fired from the FBI. It's also a mineral-related term and I always assumed that reference was intentional, but maybe it's not and this is the only intended significance to Comby's name?
16.
Rainbow Quartz 2.0's design is not discussed, though the other two new Fusions from "Change Your Mind" (Sunstone and Obsidian) were. RQ2 has some sketches included, but no accompanying narrative in the text.
17.
A sheet of corrupted Gems and their healed selves is offered, though it doesn't appear to be final. The obelisk in "Serious Steven" is labeled Albite. The unnamed Worm Monster, Desert Glass, and Watermelon Tourmaline are included. An unnamed birdlike Gem represents the Big Bird monster from "Giant Woman." The crab monster from "Arcade Mania" is labeled Blue Chalcedony. The Tongue Monster is drawn uncorrupted but not named. The Flower Monster from "Back to the Kindergarten" is labeled Grossular Diopside or Titanite. The invisible monster from "Island Adventure" is labeled Moonstone. The Lighthouse Gem is labeled White Topaz. A form for Larimar that was used in "Change Your Mind" but changed in Future is there. The Slinker is listed as Chrysocolla. And the Crab Monster is listed as Aventurine.
On the next page, this is changed to Bixbite (as it was in Steven Universe Future), and we then also have Lace Amethyst, Blue Lace Agate, Crazy Lace Agate (Fusion), Ocean Jasper, the Mother Centipeetle Nephrite (Facet 413 Cabochon 12) and three other Nephrites, Angel Aura Quartz, a hooded Jasper, Zebra Jasper, Biggs Jasper, Watermelon Tourmaline (labeled as Fusion of Gem * Onion--huh?), Snowflake Obsidian, "Little" Larimar, and Orange Spodumene (who was the Worm).
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18.
The Rhodonite side story would have been about the love story of a Ruby and a Pearl working for Morganite. Images of Morganite and her servants, unfused, are in the book. We do not get this additional information, but Rebecca said in a panel shortly before the book's release that Rhodonite's story would have been about finding out that she had been Rejuvenated 17 times because her components kept falling in love and needing to be reset.
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19.
Referring to the Diamonds on one of the charts, Steven's perspective is "I can't believe I helped these" and then there's a censor bar. Welp.
20.
Some included art by Hilary Florido features Kevin with a souped-up Koala Princess car and another where Kevin is staring at himself in the mirror in front of an altar to himself.
21.
Rebecca's sweater collection is included in the Crew art.
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[SU Book and Comic Reviews]
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ladybirdwithoutdots · 3 years
Text
do you really need to bring shipper wars in the Austen fandom too?
Full offense but people who deny Emma is in love with Mr Knightley and hate on him because they ship her with Harriet, and pretend she should’ve ended up with her, are bullshit.  I’m tired of these posts (including the Harriet stans whom I saw bashing even in some emma/knightley posts when fans of the latter are the first to make cute posts about Harriet too), and honestly, you all just make me feel very negative about Harriet and unable to truly appreciate her scenes with Emma.
Maybe I just don’t care about being a bitch but here’s what an Emma fan who is just tired of the anti Emma/Knightley crap honestly thinks about your nonsense:
Hating on the last Emma adaptation because Emma is in love with Mr Knightley and marries him in the end is as disingenuos and idiotic as hating a Pride and Prejudice adaptation because Darcy and Elizabeth are in love. Le duh!  You can ship him with Bingley and her with Charlotte (or Wickham, if that’s your mood I’m not judging shipping choices here) but if you watch a movie based on an Austen’s book you know what you are getting yourself into, especially when her canon romances tend to be very important plot elements for the protagonists and their character growth. 
I get it’s 2021 and hating all het romance makes some people feel woke and edgy, and I totally get alternative readings and things like that, but out of ALL Austen ships and all her female heroines, Emma is the one female character who doesn’t even need, neither want,  to get married and truly only does that in the end because she is in love.  Emma is the LEAST Austen heroine whose romance you should even question because she honestly only married the guy because of love and no other reason.   Furthermore, unlike most of romances from that time, the guy Emma marries isn’t just some random guy she has met two seconds ago, it actually is her best friend, someone she knows since years and the one person who knows her best and loves her in spite of her flaws. Austen was very forward for her time with their romance, especially given the fact her male love interest actually decides to live with Emma and her father in the end instead of doing what every married man had the right to do at the time (take his wife to his own home where she’d have little to no power). Knightley and Emma are the (original) best friends to lovers relationship. He’s the best friend Emma had loved from the beginning without realizing it. It’s one of the main points of her story and the great irony of the novel that she thinks love isn’t for her, and she had never been in love, but she already is in love with him without realizing it because of their friendship. I’m sorry bro but that had never been Harriet, and it seems hypocritical tbh for some of you to want to give Harriet the story that Mr Knightley has with Emma, all the while hating on him and the romance. Even with the last movie, you have people take quotes de Wilde said about Knightley and Emma (e.g., the one about the movie making you think about ‘the best friend you maybe should have kissed’) out of context to manipulate others into thinking she was talking about Harriet instead (and queer baiting, which would be homophobic)
On one hand, we really do need more stories that put an emphasis on female friendships too and on other relationships that aren’t just the romance. On the other hand, it’s completely useless for writers to try to give us that  (e.g. de Wilde in the last Emma) if everytime two characters care about each other and share screentime together, people claim that relationship (and all scenes that make perfect sense with a normal platonic relationship) must be romance and romance only. It’s almost as if some of you never had a friend and therefore believe that everytime a character cares about another character they must be romantically in love with them. It also makes me believe, more than anything, that romance is the only kind of love that exists or is important for many of you. And if that is the truth, why even bother with fictional friendships then? Why even complain when writers don’t give us that if we are unable to appreciate those relationships as something of equal importance with romance?
I really can’t take people serioustly when they overinflate Harriet and her relationship with Emma all the while they minimize Emma/Knightley’s mutual feelings.  I read people who apparently find it harder to erase Harriet’s baseless crushes on every guy who gives her attention, than erase the actual love story and feelings of the protagonist! Tbh, even if you wanted a gay adaptation of Emma (and not one that is that just for the sake of), it would make much more sense to simply turn Mr Knightley into a female character, therefore still respecting the canon couple and Emma’s character arc, than ship her with Harriet. The latter is a weak alternative and frankly baseless for me because the only things she and Emma have in common is the fact they are both girls and they have an ‘e’ in their name. Full stop. Intellectually, Harriet is no match for Emma and their ranks in society are so apart that their relationship could never ever be equal (and it never was). I don’t want to be harsh but tbh I was never convinced they are actually friends in the novel, and the last movie made it even worse for they emphasized Harriet’s blindness about Emma’s feelings, and how one sided that dynamic is for it’s just Emma who makes an effort to be a friend in the end. Let’s be real here, Harriet doesn’t even know Emma and never really acts as a friend to her, unless your definition of friendship is ‘someone who worships you, and pretends you are the best and right even when you aren’t, as long as they perceive you as a savior who can help them'.  That’s not what being a friend means to me. It speaks volumes to me that the one and only time movie-Harriet actually notices that Emma is a human being with flaws and feelings too is when she gets angry because Emma wants the same guy she wants. I don’t know if Austen’s ‘naive and completely clueless Harriet’ is worse or better than de Wilde’s version but the latter really emphasizes one of the biggest issues of Emma/Harriet even more, to me. As a book Emma fan, before an adaptations fan, I read all kinds of comments about this novel and character but honestly, I never read any real convincing argument why Harriet and Emma should be a couple instead of her and Knightley. Most of what I read boils down to people taking things out of context and/or claims that Harriet is ‘better’ for Emma just because she’s a woman and she agrees with her all the time, while Mr Knightley is the bad guy because he’s older than her (he’s only 37, btw) and criticizes her ( as if Emma doesn’t need someone to criticize her, and her character growth isn’t dependent on precisely that). I get some people wouldn’t like to have someone who is criticizing them but worshiping someone is =/= being their friend or appreciating their real qualities. I also read people point up how much Emma praises Harriet in the book as proof that she’s in love with her, but the same ignore the many instances, especially after Harriet tells her that she loves Mr Knightley, that truly show Emma’s real colors and how much she still considers Harriet her, and especially Mr Knightley’s, inferior to the extent she regrets their friendship and thinks Harriet is ‘uppity’ for thinking Mr Knightley would ruin his reputation to marry someone like her. When I read those arguments it seems, if anything, that people want to have the cake and eat it by saying that Austen’s own story doesn’t matter (and she doesn’t understand her characters’ real feelings) when it comes to the things those people don’t like (eg the fact Knightley is the one Emma is in love with and all the explicit hints about that ), all the while still selectively using some of her writing to support their alternative version of the story. Now with the last movie adaptation, it’s even worse for me. It’s telling that the two scenes people romanticize as pro Emma/Harriet are two phrases/moments that actually emphasize the bad side of their relationship, and why their friendship isn’t good for either of them. The first is the scene when Emma says she ‘wants to keep Harriet for herself’: not only there is nothing romantic about that ( that line is in the book too as well as Knightley’s ‘your infatuation is blinding you’. You are reading a book written in 1800 with modern goggles though, and that alone doesn’t really work) but that phrase should actually make you cringe for it emphasizes how selfish and manipulative Emma is by treating Harriet like her new pet project just because she’s lonely. She doesn’t care about the girl’s feelings for Robert Martin, and what is truly the best for her due to her rank (and how dangerous it actually is for Harriet to not marry and find someone who can offer her protection), even if it’s what she tells herself, she only cares about her own desire to have a new female friend because she lost Mrs Weston and she feels lonely and bored. It’s also true, though, that she is still lying to Mr Knightley too because she does actually want to match Harriet with Mr Elton, that which is obvious in the other scenes, but even that is an expression of Emma’s selfishness and not really a hint of her caring, let alone loving, Harriet as a human at this point. If you read the book, it’s particularly obvious given the fact that Emma isn’t blind about Harriet’s feelings for Robert Martin for she knows that her behavior is bad and the girl actually cares about the guy, but she manipulates her into thinking Mr Elton is better because it’s her choice and she prefers him (until he proposes to her, of course. Then she thinks Mr Elton is trash for being so arrogant to believe someone of his rank could marry her) The second phrase people romanticize is only in the last movie and it’s that annoying ‘I refused Robert Martin because of you’ phrase by Harriet later in the movie. I hate that because, once again, that phrase has nothing ‘romantic’ about it unless you obviously ignore the context and what is actually happening there. Harriet is being passive aggressive with Emma there, gaslighting her and blaming her for the loss of her first suitor BECAUSE HARRIET WANTS MR KNIGHTLEY for herself. Harriet is angry with Emma there because she realizes she loves Mr Knightley TOO and Emma has more chances than her. The most likely sentiment behind that flippant phrase for me is something along the lines of Harriet impulsively telling Emma to move aside and let her have Mr Knightley because she made her lose Robert Martin already. She is trying to make Emma feel guilty, subconsciously or deliberately, but this surely is how Emma herself perceives Harriet’s words too for the poor girl really thinks it makes her a bad person to accept Knightley’s proposal in spite of loving him back. Harriet made her believe she was stealing her man and yet, AND YET, had Harriet been a real friend, to begin with, she should’ve realized Emma’s feelings for him way before she deluded herself into thinking the guy wanted her. But Harriet never cares about Emma’s feelings and even their reconciliation in the end is all, still, about what Emma needs to do for her. Not a word from Harriet about being happy for her friend too. Nothing.
Listen, I really appreciate de Wilde’s attempt to make the Harriet/Emma dynamic better than it is in either the novel or other adaptations, even if it personally doesn’t convince me it’s friendship. But I get it. Like I said at the beginning, it’s important that movies display different kinds of love too beside romance and if you can’t do that with characters like Emma who are the protagonist then when you can even do that? I think it was valid for her and Catton to want to emphasize the fact that Emma, at her core, is truly young and lonely and she doesn’t have friends in the truest sense of the word (Mr Knightley is one, of course, but their point is more about her having a female companion too whom Emma could do more ‘girl’ things she can’t do with her husband or father) but, honestly, I maintain no adaptation ever truly got their relationship right. No one.  Overrating them and pretending that they are best friends forever when there is no substance for that is as incorrect as an interpretation of Austen’s writing as it is treating Harriet as a silly girl Emma barely tolerates. I appreciate the movie shows Emma’s conflict about Harriet when Knightley proposes to her because most of adaptations don’t do that: in the book she really, for a moment, feels so bad for Harriet and feels simultanously happy Mr Knightley loves her but also bad for taking the guy Harriet wants. She is no hero who wants to give up about him to let Harriet have the guy instead, though, but it isn’t like she doesn’t care either. She does and it’s a source of anguish for Emma and part of her character growth that she actually cares and feels empathy for Harriet.
However, if you want Emma to have a real female friend that’s not Harriet and that’s not really the story Austen wrote and the role she gave to Harriet. Like many academics pointed up, like many of Emma’s ‘mirrors’ in the story, Harriet is put there by Austen to emphasize Emma’s immaturity at the beginning and the fact she deliberately doesn’t choose her equals as friends and picks Harriet, instead, as her new pet project because her inferiority makes her easier to manipulate and, like Mr Knightley very eloquently points up, she makes Emma feel superior and more accomplished than she is. Emma doesn’t want to be friends with Jane, for example, because not only she could be more her equal but she actually does see her as superior in the aspects that make Emma the most vulnerable and insecure.
It’s great the movie gave more space to Emma’s relationship with Harriet, and I get that if you want to put the spotlight on female friendship too it’s either Harriet or Mrs Weston but also, let’s not pretend the movie wasn’t focused very much on her romance with Mr Knightley too, perhaps more than other adaptations did. People commend this adaptation for showing his feelings for her more and it’s true, but I will also argue that this movie does emphasize her feelings for him more than adaptations usually do for you really see Emma’s feelings and jealousy towards him before she even realizes her feelings. It’s obvious since their first scene when she’s waiting for him and runs to her piano because she wants to get noticed by him. Her breath constantly hitches when he’s close to her or because of her feelings for him, and she definitely reacts to dancing with him. She may not know her feelings from the start, she might be in her own ‘work in progress’ to figure everything out, but the movie makes it obvious to me that she loves him. If there is any adaptation where you want to be disingenuos about their chemistry and deny their romance, this really isn’t the one tbh. Look, if you want to headcanon Emma as bisexual you’ll find me agreeing with you, but pro LGBT readings and actual representation doesn’t mean, for me, shipping two characters together just because they are the same gender and the writers make them care about each other a bit, or give them screentime. Like I said at the beginning, if I wanted a gay adaptation of Emma I’d rather make Mr Knightley a woman than ship Emma with Harriet or Mrs Weston or Jane. Because regardless their genders, it’s the Knightley character the one Emma loves and wants to be with, and it’s this character who truly represents her best friend and the person who knows her best. It’s Knightley the only one who cares about her well being so much that when she is being the worst version of herself and no one cares, he is the one willing to tell her even if he hates doing that and he feels he’s destroying every chance he has to make her love him back. It’s the Knightley character who ultimately inspires her to be a better person and loves her in spite of her flaws.
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rpbetter · 3 years
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Wha-? Now people are labeling muns who just play devil's advocate and don't have strong feelings either way about what other people write? I didn't sign up to be a 'proshipper' just for not caring what other people ship. I don't care about a lot of things. Why the label for this particular thing? It sounds so dumb, like a way to yank in more muns who just want to mind their own business into drama and 'sides'. I agree with your post, I'm just angry at the rpc for being babies. And the labels...
I'm always angry at the RPC for being babies and the labels, it's alright, Anon.
I believe (and I could be wrong, because for the most part, I tried to stay out of any and all fandom-related things for years and years - I just want to enjoy the movie/shows/books, I don't need or want to discourse about that shit, you know?) that all of those terms originated in fandom, outside/predating transfer to the RPC.
I know when I encountered them initially, it was in fandom, not the RPC part of fandom...and at that time, it was just the label of people being "antis." A label they gave themselves by, literally, asserting themselves as "anti-character here-."
It's been my supposition that the RPC's transition to being more canon character and fandom-based than OC-preferred led to an organic transfer of more fandom-specific terminology (and behaviors). As places like twitter and tumblr became hubs of fandom and RPCs, they brought tags to the table. While that is an absolutely wonderful thing, it also means that we all started out tagging things with good intentions, only meant to be tags. You could tag something, pulling from a random fandom here, "anti-Daryl Dixon" from TWD and the plethora of fans who love that character could block it. It was a peacekeeping measure at that state, not a flag for discourse and drama.
Tag-language influencing and becoming an organic part of language, in general, is a whole other, though fascinating, topic, so I'm going to just leave that there. The point is, it happened.
And unfortunately, you quickly got people popping "anti-whatever" in their bios and blog descriptions. Not as a means of allowing others to avoid it, but as a means of making it really clear that they despised the character, fandom, ship, whatever. With purity culture 3.5 hitting in earnest, the reasons for despising those things became raised stakes. It wasn't a basis of simply disliking them anymore - you needed a dissertation how this thing was morally objectionable and destroying the world. Anyone disagreeing with you, by that logic, is morally reprehensible themselves and must be stopped. Raised stakes.
Actions cause reactions, too. People started making it clear that they were "pro" whatever, too. These became opposing designations, and honestly, I'm not sure who started up "proshipper" first. I only know I saw it being used negatively first, that doesn't mean it happened that way! What I've seen has been the entire ship/write/like what you want crowd being given that label negatively and taking it up themselves in the same way people are given to take up a lot of things they've been negatively called.
By "what I've seen," I don't just mean witnessing it happening in the wild lol it happened to me, as well. I reblogged a post about how shipping wasn't activism, and got an anon informing me that I was a disgusting proshipper (every time I reblog that, I get at least one person popping off in my RP inboxes, actually, it hasn't slowed down any). At which point, I, too, was very much like, I'm a what now? Yes, I am okay with shipping? What the hell is this person even on about?
So, it's my theory that in response to the anti movement, some people stated that they were "pro-ship and let ship" and thus...we got to be "disgusting proshippers."
Regardless, it absolutely is just another way of labeling people in order to single them out and/or keep feeding drama, yes.
And again, I feel you. I know labels, good, bad, reclaimed, whatever, seem to give a lot of people a grounded sense of identity, but I've always been uncomfortable with them. I don't understand the need for them, even if I get that they make others feel a certain way. I just want to feel the way I do, be the person I am, and have that person engaged with based singularly on my actions.
It's alright if someone else wants to freely label themselves in a way they feel is positive (though, I do wish that younger people, especially in the queer community didn't have this batshit pressure to do so, and correctly, the first time), but they've always felt threatening and restrictive to me.
As such, having people create and bestow a label on me for the purpose of designating me a problem is kind of an uncomfortable realization of why I feel negative about them. I don't like it, and it's part of why I don't like the bullshit of making this distinction in DNIs. By doing so, they're literally as hell singling people out...with a negative label they gave them for the criminal act of feeling like it's absurd to police fiction, instead, expecting adults to behave like adults when engaging with fiction and each other.
It's honestly forcing hostility and drama, when the point of being ship/write/like and let ship/write/like is not having that hostility and drama. It's merely a live and let live mentality, that's what y'all are attacking! The labeling is a rotting cherry on top that is so indicative of this same, legitimately problematic, behavior that goes on in the extremism I talked about in the post you referenced. It's...gross, let's just say that.
And I'm really sorry that it makes you upset, too! You don't have to label yourself, you can reject that and refuse to engage with those using it in this negative way. That makes me feel considerably less annoyed and disturbed! I'll totally joke about it, as I do fall into the designated parameters of being both "proship" and "anti-anti," but I don't actually label myself thus. I only consider myself a reasonable adult who has better and more serious shit going on than to worry about what fiction someone else is writing or enjoying.
Just...do be aware that, like myself and others, you're likely to be labeled if one of these hostile parties sees you reblog the "wrong" thing or make the "wrong" statement. You are being labeled in those DNIs for your viewpoint of wishing to avoid absurd drama. So, I'd advise, for your peace of mind, to try to avoid blogs stating that they're "anti" anything but drama/bullying etc., or who feel it necessary to put up those DNIs. You are who they're talking about, they just don't know it because you're not labeling yourself or being otherwise obvious about it :/
Try your best to avoid that changing, you deserve to peacefully enjoy RP! As disturbing as it is, as rightfully upset about it as you are, maybe it's a good thing you found out? In this way, I mean. Without someone bringing it to your inbox hatefully. Now you know what it means, that they mean you, and you can stay away from it! Try to look at it that way - there will always be people weirdly desperate to make their drama hobby everyone else's problem, you can only make an effort to stay out of it if you know what to look for, right?
I hope any of this made you feel better about the fresh hell that is the RPC lol keep doing you, Anon! You're not the problem, infantile drama mongers are <3
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jackonthelongwalk · 3 years
Note
Okay i need your honest opinion,,,what do you think about Hawk/Demetri possibly going canon in s4 or later seasons? do you think it’d actually happen? as much as i’d love for it to happen considering Jacobs past history I feel like he’d be a little iffy playing a LGBTQIA+ character but who knows maybe he’d be fine with it! I just wanted to know your opinion on it :)
Oh this is a great question!
Some general information for those reading this. The showrunners have apparently said they want to do 5-6 seasons (or at least that’s the rumour) .The seasons are 10 episodes, with an episode length of 30-45 ish minutes.
There’s a couple of issues with it going canon, first Demetri and Hawk have to mend their friendship. I’ve made posts in the past about how I don’t think they’ll talk about it because Eli’s autistic and it makes no sense for them to have a long drawn out talk(which I stand by). With that being said Hawk has to use actions to show Demetri he’s not going to hurt him again I mean honestly he broke his fucking arm. So that has to happen then Hawk has to mend his relationship with Miguel they need to talk or at least spend some quality fucking time together. Then Hawk has to gain the trust of Sam and all the other Miyagi-Do’s (or at least put in some effort).
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Hawk has a lot of character development to go through in season 4 and as much as I’d love my little ship to go canon for the sake of the character Hawk needs to get his mask off and become the mix of Hawk and Eli he truly is. (Which is going to take a long time coming from an autistic person it’s really fucking hard to unmask once you’ve built one).
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Moving on from that we have Yasmine is she more then a simple crush?does Demetri have real feelings for her? If so the scenario would go Demetri dates Yas then realizes he’s into Eli? then they do a long storyline about that (jealousy)and he finally gets with Hawk? It’s going to take forever and it’s played the fuck out, I’m tired of it as a queerdude, no more weird jealous sad queer waiting, hoping desperately that his friend will love him back. no thanks.
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I don’t think we’ll get Hawk and Demetri especially if they keep up the Yas storyline. Realisticly I don’t think Hawk will get another love interest (at least not next season).
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While they are important characters and part of the main cast this show is about Johnny, Daniel, Miguel, Sam and Robby at its core.
Addressing Jacob, I don’t think Jacobs feelings about playing a queer character would factor in, if the creators want to do it they’ll do it. While Jacob has been a shitty person he’s very career driven he’s done role after role and I’m sure he knows playing a queer character will gain him an incredibly loyal fanbase despite his past repulsive behaviour.“Willing” to play a queer character is only going to become more desirable to networks and the industry.
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