#and that people are entitled to their opinions and interpretations of characters.

[roboraindrop]

Trying to talk to someone irl abt Grima bc they're familiar with him and they're just being. So rude about him. It's making me very protective >:/

[griem]

ijbol idk man releasing screenshots of very polarizing things said in a private discord server between friends in a public "callout" post is #the most #tumblrific thing ive ever seen LOL.

#opinion 😱 in tags

[specialagentartemis]

something I see a lot, and feel like I have to remind myself regularly not to fall into the trap of:

It’s easy to relate to a character. It’s easy to see yourself in them, to see them as Like You. There’s power in that.

But I’ve met several people now who’ve gotten really angry and upset with me for not liking their fave, or for having a very different interpretation of the character than they do. People who relate so hard to a character, project so hard onto a character, that me not liking them, me acknowledging that the character is a villain, or me just having a different interpretation of that character’s relationships and motives, feels like an attack on them as a person—and they respond to me as such.

I’ve seen it happen enough that I try to consciously remind myself. Other’s people’s interpretations of a character are not an attack on me. I know who I am and that will not change if other people are wrong about have a different perspective on my favorite character.

[florallylly]

my PERSONAL OPINION on ro//nance: 

so a disclaimer: feel free to ship whoever you want to ship. these are just my thoughts and my perspective on the explosion of ro//nance since season 4. it’s not my intention to condemn or tell anyone to stop producing their content, i just want to scream into the void before it festers. 

your wish fulfillment is valid, but so is my opinion. so if that’s not smth you want to see feel free to skip !! 

diving straight in… i wanna talk about nancy wheeler. 

to be clear: i don’t hate nancy. i think she is headstrong and determined and knows what she wants. she sticks to her guns and definitely has the potential to be a truly good person. that being said, she is extremely selfish in canon. 

from season 1, my interpretation of her is that she’s infatuated with the concept of steve harrington and the status that he could bring. he’s a fantasy that’s suddenly become attainable to the nerdy miss wheeler. of COURSE she’s going to relish his attention. 

note: i actually don’t think anyone else except barb, mike, and steve himself, ever called steve an asshole. so . do with that what you will. 

anyway, nancy and jonathan act like steve suspecting that nancy is cheating is SO unreasonable. which honestly? it’s not. catching your girlfriend alone in her bedroom with a guy who TOOK NONCONSENSUAL ILLICIT PHOTOS OF TWO UNDERAGE TEENAGERS… that’s suspicious. perhaps his reaction wasn’t the best, but he’s also like 17 years old and protecting himself the way he knows how to. and of course his friends aren’t going to take that laying down either. 

i don’t know if any of the supporters of ro//nance have ever been cheated on, but it’s not just heartbreaking… it’s HUMILIATING. and such a hit to the self esteem. and i don’t care what the circumstance is, unless it’s nonconsensual. cheating is cheating and i firmly believe that a cheater will always be a cheater. 

in this case, it’s also reasonable for nancy to be pissed when she sees the movie theater because she didn’t actually cheat at that time. both of them had bad reactions but they also both had good reasoning behind their actions. 

YES steve called jonathan a queer, but keep in mind it’s a common insult in the 80s, especially with the AIDS epidemic going on. don’t use modern standards to condemn him, but also don’t excuse his behavior. YES he was wrong, but he grew (obviously what with his friendship with robin). and do you really think he’s not going to go for the throat when he thinks that jonathan slept with his girlfriend? 

it’s a classic case of everyone’s the asshole but everyone’s not the asshole. 

moving onto season 2. BULLSHIT. nancy was projecting. like she felt so guilty about barb and associated that night with the first time she had sex with steve, so she associated steve with barb’s disappearance/death. she was processing her trauma which is totally fine, but also not an excuse to treat steve like that. to be fair, drunk words drunk words. 

what she forgot was that steve also experienced the same thing. maybe not the grief and loss that she felt, but it’s HIS house. he has to stare out at that pool every night and know that it’s a murder scene and a grave site. he may be processing his trauma by trying to forget and be a “normal kid.” and that’s fine. 

and to be SO clear: they didn’t technically break up. you could say that they did, or take that as your interpretation, but in my opinion they’re not broken up until they have a conversation explicitly discussing ending things. couples fight all of the time. it’s not uncommon to want a little space afterwards before apologizing/making up. 

so yes. nancy cheated. and she never thought about the consequences of her actions, especially regarding steve. imagine how he felt. in season 3, he admitted to being IN LOVE with her. and she called him bullshit and cheated on him. be so real, if this happened in real life, you wouldn’t be as kind as steve. he stayed friendly with BOTH nancy and jonathan, and continued to babysit their brothers. 

steve called himself a bad boyfriend, but did we ever see evidence of that? he was constantly wooing her and romancing her. like if she didn’t want that, she could have communicated that throughout the YEAR they were together. the only possible way that steve could be a bad boyfriend was regarding their difference in trauma response. which is not being Bad. it’s having different personalities and perspectives. so ??? just a gripe. 

SEASON 3…. so YEAH nancy is selfish. her and jonathan’s job at the hawkins post … like YES fight misogyny and feel infuriated because of your treatment. however, don’t strong-arm jonathan into supporting you when he NEEDS that job. unlike miss picket fence upper middle class nancy wheeler, the byers don’t have a lot of money. they’re living on a single income and jonathan works too. like he doesn’t have the ability to just drop the job. of course, he follows her in the end though. honestly, that only validates nancy’s perspective that she’s always right and her crusade for whatever is righteous. 

but she doesn’t care about collateral damage. she never took into account jonathan’s feelings. she never took into account the effect this could have on future jobs. employers DO check references sometimes fyi. (also i KNOW that it was due to a lot of misogyny, but irl new hires are often the company mule. like she could have tried to work her way up. she hasn’t even been working there that long, and she a high school student expects to be published within months?? just be a little realistic here) 

i honestly commend her because she’s bold and she’s brave. she makes a GREAT reporter. but she makes a bad friend and a bad girlfriend. from what i observe, she takes things for granted and gives too much credit to herself. these are just character flaws and that’s human to have flaws. it’s possible to be a good person and also do bad things. i actually like nancy a lot, but it has to be acknowledged that she rarely faces consequences for her actions, and has never been confronted with the fact that she constantly puts herself first with no regard for other people. 

just a quick note for season 4 bc this is getting SO long: when nancy told steve he “almost deserved” to get shot in the face. okay bitch. now i’m mad. bc? what did he do? and like. tbh WHO deserves to get shot in the face. i don’t care if it was supposed to be a flirty statement, it was SO out of pocket. 

it’s also clear that nancy takes credit for steve’s “transformation.” if i’m being honest, the only thing she really pushed him to do was to drop tommy and carol. STEVE made the decision to run back in to fight the demogorgon. STEVE made the decision to help dustin and fight the demo dogs. STEVE made the decision to stay behind to watch the kids while they stormed the lab. show me one instance where nancy influences his actions, and i’ll acknowledge it, but i just don’t see it. and i think she gives herself way too much credit. because she wasn’t there by his side working through it with him. she was dealing with her own problems (which is okay), but she can’t act like she completely transformed him and made him a heroic babysitter. think on that. 

into my thoughts on ro//nance: 

robin is steve’s best friend. she’s not JUST his best friend. he’s her platonic soulmate. when they were conceived, they were a being with four arms and four legs. but they were Too Cunt and Powerful so they had to be separated. they are literally two parts of one soul. 

now imagine: ur best friend admits he’s IN LOVE/HAS BEEN IN LOVE with his ex. and she broke his heart. that in itself already has me livid, but if i found out about the “bullshit” spiel, i would have to start throwing punches. 

i believe in season 4 that the reason why robin is so curious about nancy is because she wants to know what type of girl steve fell in love with. like what’s so appealing about nancy that she’s the only one he said he fell in love with? and i also believe she didn’t know about the cheating at this time because NO WAY would she have been nice to nancy if she knew. 

maybe you guys can forgive cheating, but i sure can’t. and especially when it happens to my best friend… it’s over. like sorry i treasure my best friend…. 

reiterating that nancy isn’t a bad person, but she just Doesn’t work with robin. putting aside robin’s opinions, nancy fucking hates her LMFAO. like she is So cold to robin out of? jealousy (a cheater is a cheater is a cheater). so it only really proves me right that nancy doesn’t actually care about the people she’s with. does she think that flirting with steve is okay after playing around with his heart before? has she ever taken into account the fact that steve may have been healing or emotionally unavailable? did she ever consider how steve felt after they broke up? 

robin did. and she’s ride or die. 

and a rebuttal to a post i’ve definitely seen before: yes, lesbians do tend to have a small dating pool which leads to a lot of friends dating exes. (i, a lesbian, have experience with this). HOWEVER, a cheater is different. because you have to acknowledge that a lot of lesbians stay friends with their exes. steve and nancy are AT BEST friendly in canon. if you would date someone who cheated on their friend, FULL OFFENSE, you’re not a good friend. that’s just a fact. 

you’re not only completely disregarding their experience, but you’re also forcing them to be in the same space as someone who betrayed them. and that’s more of a betrayal than the actual cheating imo. sorry but IN MY OPINION, i’d never want to be friends with anyone who ships ro//nance lol. it just shows me that you don’t care about your friends’ feelings like that. 

this is kind of a rant and totally nonsensical, but i have to yell about this bc i feel like it’s not even talked about. nancy is always characterized as a perfect girl, but she’s not. and that’s OKAY! but you can’t erase her history just to have two cute girls kiss. 

it’s also completely ignoring CANON love interests (vickie). which i get because she didn’t get a lot of screen time, but god can’t we find another alternative. 

and be honest: a lot of people ship ro//nance so that jonathan/argyle can get together too. or they act like it’s okay bc steddie get together and steve is happy now. 

THOUGH steve would approve of the relationship bc he’s a GOOD guy and KIND, i think that robin would have rejected it. she’d defend that man to the DEATH. 

so when you ship ro//nance, you’re erasing stobin. because robin would want someone who loves steve just as much as she does. someone who understands that he’s her soulmate and she can’t live without him. and nancy just isn’t that person. their history and nancy’s perception of steve just stand in the way of that kind of relationship. 

not to mention that steve and robin are One. like this is more conjecture but they are Literally the Same Person. and if steve wasn’t compatible with nancy, what makes you think that robin would be?  honestly, the whole concept of ro//nance just completely bamboozles me. i’m confused and i’m irritated. because it’s almost like none of you have actually had a REAL relationship. or YOU don’t care about other people’s feelings. nancy kin i guess. 

again again, my personal opinion. i choose not to consume ro//nance content, but somehow it keeps cropping up so i do have to put in my two cents. by all means, keep shipping and supporting them, but it would be nice if you read through this and thought about the characterization. 

[aromanticannibal]

ppl really b acting as if there's only one specific ship that has weird shippers that will complain about ppl not shipping their otp. it's literally always the case you either get fucked over for liking a gay ship or for liking a straight ship or for liking a toxic ship or people just start going "oh there's nothing wrong with the ship but the shippers💀" and you don't fucking know what they're talking about. like can we all just chill. the weird shippers r everywhere it's called some ppl are assholes sometimes. it's not fandom specific

[tasmanianstripes]

if you dont care about getting the characterization right why not just make your own characters? the point of liking a character is that you like the character? if you like them shouldnt you want to TRY and get their personality right? cause why do you like them otherwise, what makes them them other than their literal personality

Have you considered that maybe some people just don't want to make an OC? Making an entire world that is still unique yet has all the same elements of the original story that you enjoy is a lot of work, it can be rewarding and enjoyable but it's still a lot of work and you don't always end up with a product that you are happy with or that you like as much as the original story. Making an OC to insert into the preexisting story or replace that specific character is also fun but it isn't for everyone either. I did it before when I realised that a character in my longrunning AU just ended up being my own oc over time after I've been slowly changing and evolving their story over the course of 10 years, and I'm happy with it, but it's not for everyone.

I did simplify my stance on it for the sake of making a post that isn't 2 miles long, but getting the characterisation right isn't completely meaningless to me. I want to get a canon character's personality as close as I can if that's my goal, but it can be at times very hard for me and it takes a long time of writing them over and over again for me to nail it at times, but I'm also not too pressed when people don't have the same interpretation as me nor if they want to get the canon character's personality right. Again, it can be a lot of work and it's not for everyone. I do not care if a character has a different personality than their canon version as long as it's consistent and there's a good reason for it (either in-story or meta reason, I dislike characterisations that aim to change a character just to serve another character's story or to make other characters look better by comparison)

Sometimes, making Alternative Universes where a character's personality is different is fun. A butterfly effect, where one difference in their past cascades and fundamentally changes them as a person. Maybe giving them a different personality would serve the story you're trying to tell more. What if this happens to them, how would they change as a person? What if they were more y than x, how would it affect the story they're in and their relationships with other characters? How would it affect the other characters and their perception of them? If these events happen, if their life was completely different, if they were brought up differently, what kind of person would they be? It's just fun, and at the end of the day I think that's what's most important in fandom spaces. You should just have fun.

And yeah, that does mean that sometimes you will end up with a character that's more of an OC than a canon character, but what's so wrong with that? I mean, yeah, it happened, too bad...who does it hurt? The original author will probably never see it anyway and doesn't care, it doesn't affect you either, if you're bothered by it you can just move on.

And sometimes maybe they just read a character and interpreted it differently than you. Maybe they just can't get it right. Still, what's wrong with that?

I think having fights over such meaningless things is a bit silly. They're not hurting anyone, they're just having harmless fun, and if it bothers you so much why not just ignore it and focus on the things you enjoy and find fun? If they're not going out of their way to insist that their interpretation is the only correct one, if they're not going out of their way to be assholes about it, then what is the problem with that?

Some people treat canon like playdough or see it like an Unity asset store where they can build their own stories out of preexisting characters and world they enjoy, and sometimes that involves changing a character. You might see it differently and find enjoyment in different things, and that's fine! You don't need to even like how other people choose to have their fun. But neither is a better or worse way to enjoy the source material.

[moony-2001]

The real-world impact of Lore Olympus

i.e. do your research Rachel

Trigger warning: racism, fetishization, appropriation, mentions of SA

Long post ahead

A while ago, someone told me that Lore Olympus was just a silly little comic written out of boredom. That it was made to be "funny". They told me that "[I] can't hope [for] an extremely [well-written] story when it was just made with the intention to make something goofy" and that if Rachel actually wanted to make something serious like I had, she would write a book and not a comic.

At the time of this exchange, it was past 1 a.m. and I was exhausted. I did not want to argue with this person and it simply wasn't worth my time or energy in the moment.

But looking back at that (mostly one-sided) interaction, I can't help but think that there is so much wrong with that point of view. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion about Lore Olympus, whether good or bad. But Lore Olympus isn't just some silly little nothing comic about nothing important. It is a comic that actively appropriates and erases Greek Culture. It is a comic that has no respect for the actual stories that have been passed down over thousands of years whether by word of mouth or written text. It is a comic that perpetuates a false narrative and harmful stereotypes about characters or certain groups of people. So, no, it's not just a silly little comic.

Incorrect information

Here’s an example of what I mean:

When I was doing research for my post about the 10 year time skip, I looked up Leuce to reconfirm the little information I knew about her. Wanna guess the first thing that popped up about her?

A Lore Olympus Wiki article.

Okay. How about Minthe? Hundreds of pictures of her from Lore Olympus and a LO Wiki article as one of the top 3 results. Both character are horribly represented in LO and unfortunately there isn’t really any documented stories or records that can refute how LO paints them. Because of this, other characters in Greek Mythology like Leuce and Minthe, whose stories have little to no documentation, stand to suffer the most harm from deliberate misrepresentation on Rachel’s part.

Of course well-known and better documented figures in Greek mythology face slander as well. What about Thetis or Leto? How about Apollo? All of their portrayals in LO are HORRIBLE. I have seen people online absolutely drag them to filth not because they're upset about how the character is portrayed compared to their mythological counterpart, but because they have no knowledge of how they are actually portrayed outside of LO. They just assume that's how the characters are. Similarly, people who have either very little or no prior knowledge of Greek Mythology and Culture would look at the comic and go "Yep, sounds legit. It must be true." and go about thinking that what is portrayed in LO is accurate to what was transcribed thousands of years ago.

Creative interpretations and racism/fetishization within LO

Don’t get me wrong. Creative interpretations and artistic liberties can be great. When they’re done tastefully. I personally think if done correctly, a Greek myth spun in a modern way has the potential be very good. But that's not what we were given.

Characters like Minthe, Leuce, and Thetis (all nymphs btw) are portrayed as trashy tramps who put out and are used as a foil sabotage Persephone and/or her relationship with Hades. Compare that to Greek Mythology where in the Iliad, Thetis is very well-respected by the gods, particularly Hera. Unfortunately, other similar characters like satrys (and basically any character that isn’t a god) are usually portrayed as a low-class POC that can be easily exploited, manipulated, or used as a temporary villain/lover/pawn to “get back” at Persephone, our white-coded protagonist who can do no wrong.

Additionally, there is a clear race/class bias against characters like nymphs in LO. We see many cases scattered throughout the comic of gods like Hera or Aphrodite referring to nymphs as "trash" or "low class" or the idea that nymphs do not belong with gods being heavily implied if not outright said. I cannot tell you how often I've seen Minthe be called some variant of "cheap" by the readers of LO. Even Persephone (who created the flower nymphs) treats them with such disrespect. She frequently calls them some variant of "stupid" or "simple" like saying how they're not the sharpest crayons in the box even though she's the one WHO MADE THEM. However, it's so odd not really to note that nymphs like Echo, Amphitrite, or Psyche (who was previously disguised as a nymph) are not discriminated against. This is because they are liked or trusted by the gods they are around and ergo are often portrayed as the "good ones", which is a disgusting mindset to have.

We also see the fetishization of nymphs in the comic that is disturbingly similar to the fetishization of women who are Black, Asian, or Latina. It is a known fact that Hades has a flower nymph fetish. Not only is this implied in the comic, but Rachel stated it outright in an old Patreon post. Nymphs are also generally treated as sex-symbols, disposable, and as a lesser-than. Zeus frequently displays this behavior by abandoning nymphs he knocked up in the mortal realm.

For example, when Persephone finds out Apollo is dating Daphne, she isn't upset he's dating her friend. She's upset he's dating a flower nymph, beings that are generally considered to be "rare", "dumb", and objects of sexual desire. Ew.

Even on the Lore Olympus website (loreolympians.com) nymphs are regarded as "beautiful", "desirable", and "very exotic". And when they're not described in a sexual manner they're say it with me now regarded as "low class" or "workers" for some kind of god/goddess.

Final thoughts

So not only is the characterization of characters like Minthe or Thetis harmful to Greek culture and the stories that are so ingrained in their society, but it is also perpetuating harmful stereotypes about people of color and women who are confident in their sexuality.

Of course, the characters within Greek Mythology had their own issues. Zeus was a serial rapist, many of the goddesses deemed to be "feminist" by today's standards were actually horribly misogynistic looking at you Athena. But 1. that's just how things were back then (but that does not make it right) and 2. all of the good, the bad, and the ugly is still there in Greek Mythology. They're not denying how fucked up it is, but they're also not changing their history to better fit their own narrative or the narrative of the modern world. It exists, it happened, but now it is studied and called out by historians.

Rachel, on the other hand, is doing exactly that. She is actively changing the Greek's cultural history to better fit her fic's narrative. She is constantly sweeping things under the rug or going "No this is how it ACTUALLY happened". Lore Olympus is marketed as a "feminist retelling" yet somehow, it takes allllll the ugly parts from Greek Mythology (rape, incest, problematic age gaps, dubious consent, etc.), mixes it with a majority of the issues we have in the modern world (white feminism, rape-apologists/rape culture, grooming, fetishization of certain minority groups, etc.) and then amplifies the concoction to 20. Lore Olympus cannot be a "progressive, feminist, retelling" and also have characters that are morally apprehensive/come straight from the ancient myths. It does not work. In fact, IMO it makes all the problems from both eras worse.

News flash: actual cultures that are still thriving today are not your toys. They are not "made up". They matter. Do better.

[serene-faerie]

I didn't want to post this kind of discourse, but it's something that I genuinely can't ignore anymore.

It's no secret that the Silm fandom has a lot of problems with its standards for female characters. I've noticed that a lot of heroic female characters like Lúthien, Elwing, and Idril tend to be criticized and bashed on quite a bit.

But I've also noticed that there are three female characters that hardly anyone bashes. In fact, some fans actively like to pit these characters against other female characters by making them the hype-men of the Fëanorians.

(I apologize to any mutuals who happen to be Fëanorian fans. And this isn't to say that these female characters are terrible because they're connected to the Fëanorians, but these are just my observations. I still think they're wonderful characters on their own.)

First is Nerdanel, the wife of Fëanor and the mother of his sons. And with the Fëanorians being so popular in the fandom, of course she would be an automatic favorite. It also helps that she doesn't play a huge role in the events of the First Age, which gives fans the freedom to interpret her character however they wish. And despite the fact that she and Fëanor are separated following the Darkening of Valinor, Nerdanel still remains a favorite among Fëanorian fans.

Next is Aredhel. She's not only besties with Celegorm, but she happens to be the mother of Maeglin, the creep that fandom loves to woobify. People also sympathize with her for her tragic death, understandably so. However, there are people who will claim that she would've wanted Celegorm to rape Lúthien as revenge for her abduction by Eöl, never mind that neither Aredhel nor Lúthien even knew each other. Some fans will also have her sympathize with Maeglin for causing the fall of Gondolin, ignoring the fact that Maeglin betrayed the city because he felt entitled to Idril, Aredhel's own niece, and that he actively tried to rape her during the city's fall.

The third one is Haleth. I've noticed that Fëanorian fans really like to ship her with Caranthir, mostly because he helped the Haladin fight off a bunch of attacking Orcs. This is despite the fact that Haleth wasn't interested in living on Caranthir's lands as a vassal. Instead, she took her people to Brethil and lived freely in the domain of Elu Thingol. Nevertheless, people like to compare her and Caranthir to Aegnor and Andreth, sometimes making fun of them for their tragic separation and claiming that neither Haleth nor Caranthir would be as "foolish" as them.

What do these three women have in common? They have a connection/interaction with the Fëanorians at some point in their lives. So these women are just used to uplift the Fëanorians to the detriment of other female characters- particularly the creeps like Celegorm and Maeglin.

Which, in my opinion, is a huge disservice to their characters.

All of this is to say that Aredhel, Nerdanel, and Haleth deserve better than to be reduced to Fëanorian hype-men. And Lúthien, Elwing, and Idril deserve a lot better than to be pitted against other female characters.

[carlyraejepsans]

for the record, i frankly do not give a single shit about how toby as the creator of the undertale feels about how people treat his protagonists. he made a piece of art and he set it free, he's a smart enough guy to know not to shove his nose in fandom discussions more than is necessary to continue his stories. i don't care if it wouldn't be a big deal to him that people gender his main characters, my perspective is that of a transgender fan interacting with other fans in a social space. if you're so painfully cis brained that you can't handle leaving a neutral character as is because you have to forcefully shove them in a binary somehow, that tells me you do not have the maturity to interact with people like me. even if you did, you couldn't pay me to run the risk of finding out when i can hang out with people who are obviously more reliable and trustworthy than you.

i don't respect you and i don't want you around me. i'm not entitled to your headcanons? sure. you don't see me going around attacking fans who misgender the humans. i go out of my way to avoid them and make my opinions known on my own goddamn blog. YOU are not entitled to my views either. not my headcanons, not my interpretations, not my analysis, not my judgement of your character based on this behavior. i find your arguments insufferable and immature, and would rather tap dance barefooted on coals than continue this discussion.

get fucked and don't come back. i've got better things to do with my day, and better fans to enjoy this game with than people like you.

[crazylittlejester]

I'd absolutely love to hear what you have to say about Time 🙃 /gen

And, I hope you are feeling well. I think you said you were dizzy? I hope that gets better 🫶

I’m feeling much better, thank you!! I hope you’re going good as well :)

Sorry this took me a whole day to type out, but I finished!! I got it!!

I have a lot more thoughts, I had to cut a lot for the sake of making it readable and not obnoxiously long so I really hope I still get my points across well 😭 , but here we go:

An Abridged Version of My Thoughts on Time (I’m Insane I’m Sorry):

Okay so I’m starting off this whole thing by saying that 100% of this is my opinion and the research I did was done specifically to back my stance (which does not make it canonical fact. You can do research to back any point. You can do research to argue against my point, even). This doesn’t make my perspective or interpretation of a character the correct one by any means, and this definitely leans towards how I personally characterize and view him and is biased in that way because I’m the one who wrote it. All of you are entitled to your own opinions, you don’t have to agree with or listen to a single thing I say. In fact if you do disagree I encourage you to reblog and share your OWN thoughts so I can read YOUR perspective! I like seeing opinions people have and I love to see how differently all of us can view the same character /gen. I just that ask if you do do this, that you be kind and respectful to myself and others :)

This entire yap, analysis, whatever you wanna call it, is my perspective on Time and my thoughts behind why I believe he acts the way he does. At some point in all this I’m specifically going to focus on how he’s acting at the end of the Dawn arc and in the more recent updates. However in order to talk about that I wanna go to the beginning and talk about his past, the environment he grew up in, his relationships with others, and how I believe that has shaped the way he functions as an adult. My apologies now for being insane, unfortunately I have no life and also a lot of thoughts, and full access to a college library full of case studies- My professors would be so proud… Hope y’all enjoy lmao

Loneliness and Isolation:

One of the first things I noticed when I started playing OOT was this divide between Link and the Kokiri. Despite the fact that none of them know he’s actually a hylian, the bullying and teasing and the way they treat him for not having a fairy feels as though they’re making him to be different from them. Even Saria and the Great Deku Tree speak to/about him in ways that make it seem that, even though they care about him, they do see him as different from the others. (Granted, Saria’s treatment of Link is likely fully an unintentional thing. She doesn’t mean to be cruel when she makes her comment about how after Link got his fairy he could be a real Kokiri because she is a child and probably didn’t think about how that would come off to a kid who’s been arguably treated as less than for not having a fairy this entire time. She’s probably aware of how upset he’s been, but they’re children and I doubt she realized her attempt at comfort potentially made Time feel worse. The Great Deku Tree, on the other hand, referring to him as ‘the boy without a fairy’ immediately makes it clear to us as the player that Link is different from the Kokiri. He knows Link is hylian, which is something the player, Link, and the Kokiri do not know at this point)

Not having a fairy like the others certainly separates Time from the Kokiri because having a fairy companion appears to be a huge deal, something everyone has in common except for him. While it isn’t really on the same scale, I imagine this feeling of not having something your friends do could be, to an extent, comparable to how it would feel if all your peers had cell phones or social media access and you did not. (BAD EXAMPLE I KNOW BUT HEAR ME OUT.) The ability to consume media at such a fast pace and share jokes and trends with peers has become something to bond over, and being outside of that ‘world’ would leave someone to feel like they’re missing out on something they couldn’t possibly understand unless they get it for themselves. When your friends all have phones and you don’t, you have to sit there awkwardly when they all pull them out to text people or look things up, even if you’re doing something that doesn’t even require being on your phone, like going to the mall or hanging out. Sure they might show you a meme or two, but you can’t show them your memes, or share things and exist in the online world the way they do. Time could see and interact with the others’ fairies but he didn’t have that for himself, and I imagine it was probably hard for him to bond with the Kokiri because of it. Even if they were just playing a game or messing around and he wasn’t even being teased for not having a fairy of his own, those other fairies were right there as a constant reminder that Time didn’t have his own companion because he was, for a reason he couldn’t understand, different

Having played Skyward Sword and the beginning of Twilight Princess and seeing how both of those Links are treated by the people around them in comparison to how the Kokiri interact with Time, it feels safe to say there’s a good possibility he felt out of place and a little isolated by his own community. The way he was seemingly blamed for the death of the Great Deku Tree after finding out the life altering information that he is different probably did nothing but cause further divide between himself and the Kokiri in his mind, if not completely sever the connection he had between himself and that community

Do I think the Kokiri completely excluded him and intentionally tried to isolate him? No, I do not. However it’s clear that Saria was his best friend and the others weren’t always the nicest to him. It’s not too far a stretch to say he probably felt very lonely at times in his childhood, more so than the average kid

The theme of isolation and loneliness continues when the timeline shenanigans happen at the end of OOT and Time is now the only one who knows what happened to him. He has absolutely nothing to show for what he physically just went through and he can tell people about it all he wants but they’ll never understand because for them it simply never happened. Once again Time is isolated from this community he finds himself a part of because he’s different from them in a way they cannot relate to, driving a wedge between him and the rest of society. And Malon and Zelda are not people who would intentionally drive him further from feeling like he can belong, but they will forever be different from him in a way none of them now have the power to control. He formed relationships with them and with other people that were then erased. He knows a version of them that doesn’t exist anymore (in the timeline he continued to live in), and he’s alone in that. There IS no fix to that problem

Attachment Styles and Development

Relationships are crucial to child development and the connections formed when we’re young impact the way we create and view our relationships in adulthood. Peer relationships are just as important as parental ones because they play a different role. While your friends are the ones who have more of an impact on things like your music tastes, interests, and sense of identity/role within your group of peers, it’s your parents/caregivers who teach you right from wrong (often religion plays a part in that as well though not always), are responsible for feeding you and helping you learn new skills as a young child. Having a secure attachment and good relationship to caregivers when you’re young really impacts how you seek comfort as an adult and how you form relationships with others. Children whose parents or caregivers responded to their distress in unpredictable ways (by offering comfort sometimes and being unable to other at times, for an example) are less likely to seek out those figures for comfort or be soothed by them when the comfort is offered. I have no idea exactly how old Time was when he was placed with the Kokiri or what his mother was like, but I feel it’s fair to say the Great Deku Tree was probably the closest thing to a parental figure/caregiver (while he was living with the Kokiri) that he has any memory of. And I also feel it’s fair to say that as the stationary tree guardian of a bunch of immortal children, it was pretty impossible for him to support all of those kids’ emotional needs

Making this assumption based solely on Navi’s role in the story and what she does for us as players of the game: I feel like the fairy companions might almost be more of a parental/caregiver like figure to the Kokiri children than the Great Deku Tree is, simply because they’re able to be around them more. Navi helps Time (and the player) find things, gives clues, and helps the player with the game controls, so inside the actual game I think it’d be fair to say she (and other fairies) have more of a hands on role in guiding these children than the Great Deku Tree. And again, Time didn’t have that, not until his adventure started. He didn’t have a fairy companion while his friends and peers did, he was on his own. He wasn’t getting that potential comfort from a reliable caregiver the others were, which I believe can be partly responsible for how determined he is to solve his own issues. (Of course personality also has a play in things like this, and as we all know the hero’s spirit is incredibly fucking stubborn.) He was taught through the failures of the ‘adult’ figures in his life that the only one who’d be there to really comfort him was him

Identity and Relationships

Apart from feeling alone and not having the same types of companionship his peers did, I firmly believe Time seriously struggled with identity issues as well. Being told he wasn’t enough for the Master Sword yet, just to then be suddenly physically several years older and expected to operate as an adult despite having less than a decade of life experience, back to being shoved into the body of a child after living through horrors and accumulating scars that are now just gone doesn’t real make for the most confident, mentally stable of people. The message he most likely took from that was “You’re not enough as you are.”

He was a hero who saved a kingdom, then forgotten when everything was set back, and then abandoned by the one person (fairy) who went through it all with him after it was all done. If he’d felt alone or isolated in his youth before all that happened, I can’t imagine how overwhelming all those emotions were after all that. He needed Navi because she’s the only one who can really validate what he went through, she was the only one who could have understood him. She was a guardian and a friend and he couldn’t figure out why she left him, which must’ve just been absolutely devastating.

He was still just a kid, with no one to talk to about these issues. (Though he sort of works through some of them on his own through helping others in Majora’s Mask. Granted that left him with new issues even if it may have helped him work through a few old ones. I think there are quite a lot of similarities between Link and Skull Kid, but that’s a yap for another day.) I can imagine that both his identity and what he was supposed to do with himself were things he questioned constantly, and building relationships with people was probably very difficult for him when he hadn’t fully worked out himself. And he didn’t really have someone to comfort him or help him figure all that out

At a certain point, I think the feeling of being alone became almost a comfort to him. It was the most reliable thing he had, he could handle things on his own and that was something he knew for fact. He learned how to deal with his emotions and issues (maybe not in the healthiest of ways in his youth), and instead of being so suffocating, the isolation became something he could CONTROL. With all the instability throughout his childhood, the fact that he could reliably be on his own without dealing with the unpredictability of others was probably a relief. He didn’t have to worry about people leaving or getting hurt because he couldn’t protect them, but that didn’t really replace the feeling of loneliness so much as sloppily cover it up

Malon and the ranch are things that have been able to give him something he hadn’t had in years, which was stability and companionship. He’s been alone and isolated or dealing with loss his entire life, but she’s able to provide him with something steady, something safe to come back to. That’s been absolutely huge for him in regards to the healing process, because not only is it said in LU that she believes him completely, she’s literally his biggest supporter. And having a sturdy location and person to come back to at the end of whatever little trips he probably continued to go off to gave him comfort while still allowing him to keep that feeling of control over himself and his life. Sure not everything is perfect all the time and relationships are things that you have to put time, effort, and patience into, but he’s allowed to have his support and his much needed feeling of control over his life at the same time while living in that scenario. She loves him, she loves him very much and I have no doubt they worked together to get him to the place of comfort he’s at now. The panels from any of the ‘Malon’ posts are really the most relaxed we’ve seen Time for long stretches of time, it’s clear he’s been able to make a safe space for himself there

And now here’s the part where I actually talk about the recent comic update(s)!!!!!!!! (Yippee!!!)

Time is a very quiet, stoic character in LU especially when compared to the others, which are qualities that pull a lot from the hero’s shade. He’s the unofficial official leader, and he’s at a point in his life where he’s been able to work on himself and form healthy relationships (not perfect ones, but healthy ones built on communication which is clearly a struggle for him still but I cannot afford to get into that this post because that’s way too much. If y’all want a yap about that, ask me later). He puts a lot of stress and pressure onto himself, because he feels as though he’s responsible for these younger heroes, even though some of them have far more experience than he does

But in addition to this, he’s absolutely terrified of caring about people, and he’s not used to working with other people in this area of his life. Because no one sticks around, and if they do, what’s stopping the timeline from resetting somehow and taking their memory of him away? He no longer has the stability and comfort that comes with being alone because he’s forced to work with other people, other heroes who are equal to him in that regard, and people are unpredictable. And with unpredictability comes loss of control

Anger is an easier emotion for a child to process, and express themself through. This is why depression in children often manifests itself as anger. Children dealing with depression have a harder time managing and controlling their anger and can come off as snappier, inattentive, and reckless (obviously this is not the same case for every single child). While he certainly isn’t a child anymore in LU, I think Time is still someone who when overwhelmed is quick to anger, but this does not mean that he’s not kind. He’s incredibly kind and caring, and you can tell he loves everyone around him so deeply even though he’s probably a bit angry at himself for letting them all worm their way into his heart because he’s going to have to let them go some day. But still, some of that snappiness comes through even in his adult years and he’s a lot harsher with the others than I believe he intends to be. He’s not genuinely angry at them, he’s mad at the situation they’re in right now because he’s no longer responsible for just himself. He doesn’t have control anymore, and he’s probably back to feeling like a scared child who might be about to lose everyone again and he hates that

Twilight got hurt and he blames himself for it. He’s in an unfamiliar situation with people he cares a lot about who are all just as reckless and determined as he is, and he has absolutely no idea what to do with himself because in his mind if he lets something happen to one of these boys, that’s on him and he should’ve done better

Ough (A Continuation of ‘Isolation’)

In a way Time exists on a different level of the timeline. He retained memories of things that no longer exist, and he’s witnessed the rewritting of time over and over again. The timeline he was born in may no longer be the one he exists in, though it certainly branched from that original one. He has knowledge and memories of relationships that are real to only him in the timeline where he lives, and I would argue that because of this, he lives outside of society

Now this genuinely has nothing to do with anything I just wanna yap about something because The Voices, and it’s gonna be a fucking reach but if you’ve stayed this long you must find something appealing about my incoherent rambling so allow me to draw a genuinely insane comparison between Time and his existence in society and ‘The Lady of Shallot’, written in 1832 by a poet by the name of Alfred Tennyson. If you have no idea what this is, it’s incredibly short and easy to find with a quick google search, and I encourage you to read it. But for those of you who didn’t sign up for a poetry assignment today I’ll summarize

The Lady of Shallot is cursed to stay in a tower away from the rest of society and she’s unable to look upon Camelot with her own eyes, because something bad will happen if she does though she has no idea what. Day after day she creates these tapestries of what she sees of the society behind her through a mirror. She’s unable to look at it with her own eyes so what she creates is unable to perfectly reflect what it is the world has to offer. And she’s absolutely sick of it, she sees happy people wandering down below, knights riding through, she sees through her mirror what life is like for those within society and she wants to join them. She sees a beautiful man one day (Lancelot) and decides the curse is worth it, just for a chance to leave her tower, so she turns around and sees Camelot with her own eyes. She leaves her tower and goes to join society but by the time she gets there she’s dead

Now one of the meanings hidden within this is how artists are almost outside of society and that is how they are able to so accurately depict it, and that joining society and being ‘normal’ would make them unable to keep their unique perspective that isolation provides. But I’m going to be crazy here and draw parallels to a video game character because I CAN

Time exists outside of society and is isolated from every community he tries to be a part of because the differences between him and the Kokiri/normal hylian are so significant he feels like he doesn’t belong there. Despite having built his sense of identity back up, he still, to an extent, feels like an outsider. The things he’s been through separate him from being able to just be a normal guy, and he craves so badly to be part of a community he’s almost convinced himself he CANNOT join. The chain (and Malon, but mainly the other heroes) help him have something to connect to, because while they may not have the exact same experience they understand him more than anyone else ever could. He then tries to join society, something happens, and he dies a warrior full of regrets

Is it a reach? Yeah. But I like the poem and I can’t stop thinking about the parallels (that I’ve probably completely fucking made up at this point) every time I think too long about Time and it makes me claw at the dry wall and scream. I’m so normal…

Anyways, *weak cough* thanks for reading, if you did. It means a lot that you’ve supported my insanity. I hope this is coherent-

Thanks Emmie for reading through this for me 😭, and special shoutout to every single one of you who sent me asks yesterday to remind me to write this I love you all sm actually:

@trash-aged-like-fine-wine @rebornofstars @blueskybehindtheclouds @captainn-hook @ghosttoasts

[makeitastrength]

Here’s the thing. Obviously everyone is allowed to have whatever opinions and interpretations of the characters and share those on their own page. We’re all entitled to our feelings.

But here’s the other thing. Many of us are here because we relate to these characters in some way. Personally, I relate very strongly to certain aspects of Tim and I also relate very strongly to certain aspects of Lucy. I share a lot of both of their traumas and I’ve made my fair share of decisions and mistakes in my life because of that trauma.

(I’m not saying what I did was okay. It wasn’t. But it happened.)

So when I see posts or comments about how awful Tim is right now or how he deserves to be miserable, one of the main things I’m taking away from that isn’t your opinion of Tim. It’s the realization that if you ever got to know me, you’d probably have the same thoughts. It’s that if I made a similar mistake, this is the kind of reaction I can expect from you. It’s that you’re probably not someone I would want to build any kind of relationship with, given your apparent lack of effort to try to understand the nuance and complexities of human behavior and trauma.

Again, we’re all entitled to our own opinions. I’m not invalidating anyone’s feelings and I’m not saying we can’t have respectful disagreements. My point is, when you say hateful things, or when you say things in a hateful way, you need to understand the unintentional messages you’ll be sending and the fact that you very well may be alienating some of the people around you.

[le-trash-prince]

Dean & Kenta

So I am obsessed with the parallels between these two scenes in Episode 10, and I’d like to break it down a bit.

Here we have two characters who have failed their father figures due to their involvement with Charlie's accident. These conversations both begin with physical blows.

Both Kenta and Dean deny that they intended for Charlie to die.

Tony tells Kenta not to bother coming back if he messes up again (I interpret this as a veiled death threat—does Tony ever let people just walk away?). And Alan asks North to call the police on Dean. Both Kenta and Dean are each facing exile from their families.

There is, however, a contrast in the setting for these conversations. Tony and Kenta are at Tony's house, which we know is full of people. They are even out in the open, rather than in Tony's office. But they are completely isolated, as is the standard for this home. They are standing on a black walkway with a black doorway behind them.

Alan and Dean, on the other hand, are surrounded by the X-Hunter team, by people who are directly affected by what is happening. Even though it is just the two of them talking to each other, North is literally right there with them. They are standing in a beam of light with a bright window behind them.

I think there is a lot to be said about the connection these scenes draw between Tony and Alan, although I'm not equipped to comment on parenting styles (I welcome any input). But I don't think any other part of the series has drawn such a clear comparison between these two and the roles they are trying to fill. Their emotional reactions speak a lot to the difference in their character. While both are angry, Tony is filled with entitlement—his finances have been damaged by Charlie’s, while Alan is filled with grief—his family has been broken.

One thing I’d also like to highlight is Alan’s constant use of the word “family” towards his employees throughout the entire show (I know this can be problematic irl sometimes, but it’s quite apparent here that Alan really thought of them as his family), while that word seems to be entirely missing from Tony’s vocabulary, even though these people are legally his children. X-Hunter is Alan’s family, while the Chen Foundation orphans are Tony’s property.

Family is a recurring theme in Pit Babe (insert Fast & Furious reference here), and these scenes do a great job of showing contrasting perspectives on family. "Family is not everyone's safe zone." Family can hurt, family can heal, and family can fail you.

In the end, as seen below, Tony quite literally throws Kenta away from him, while Alan lets Dean slip from his embrace.

Kenta ends the scene framed almost completely by black, but his face is bathed in light, and he is standing upright, while Dean is the opposite; he is on his knees, bracketed by light, his face entirely in shadow.

I also find it interesting how much this dialogue of Dean's feels like it could have come directly from Kenta himself.

To me, Kenta and Dean are on very similar trajectories, but moving in opposite directions. They have both been background characters, observers in someone else's story, and they're both unhappy with where they are.

Dean was revealed in his scene to be a traitor to his people, and I think Kenta’s scene is showing us that he is in the same position—without coming out and saying it directly. In my opinion, it’s some very nice visual storytelling that’s doing a great job of building up what is coming for Kenta’s arc.

[bakuhatsufallinlove]

re: 405

This is gonna be long.

First, I'm bringing this post back around to remind people that kocchi is a pronoun of ambiguous plurality.

This means that an interpretation of "we" is just as correct as an interpretation of "I." Readers may interpret it differently, but on simply linguistic grounds, they are of equal validity.

You will often see this kind of ambiguous language used in Japanese, even with characters that are forthright. The reason is one part cultural expectation that the listener will read between the lines, and one part a willingness to accept two things as simultaneously true. This exists and is frequently found in English as well, there just isn't a direct parallel for kocchi itself.

What I want most out of writing this blog, aside from personal enjoyment, is for people to understand that there can be more to a story for you to engage with, think about, and be moved by, when you step outside the boundaries of your own language and culture.

I think that is a much more interesting space to be in than a gotcha-laden approach of trying to prove something wrong or bad.

But if we are going to talk accuracy, the fact is that the fan translation many people have been upholding as superior has just as many problems as the official one. It takes just as many creative liberties, they are simply different ones.

The fan translator centered an "I" reading and, rather than using either of the two pronouns provided by the text ("OFA" and あいつ, meaning "that guy"), added a narratively-charged word ("nerd") that did not exist in the original and which (as far as I can tell) Katsuki has never used when speaking to villains. As a translator myself, I really disagree with that second choice. The official clearly missed the callback, but noticed the theme of "everyone who has faced AFO until now" and went with "we." The rest was just style over substance which prioritized edgy language to capture the aggression of the line; this falls squarely in line with what Viz has consistently maintained as its in-house aesthetic. It's disappointing, but unsurprising to me.

Fandom oscillates pretty violently between vilifying the official English release and fawning over it. Whole fan theories are built upon nitty gritty bits of the official release's phrasing; people will get excited over how homoerotic a line sounds, and it's because of how the official translator worded it, rather than any innate implication in the original Japanese.

If you do not speak Japanese, your experience of MHA is fundamentally dependent on the work of translators. I respect that everybody has their personal tastes or hopes for how the series will go, but it is deeply demoralizing as a Japanese speaker and translator to see fans who don't speak any Japanese at all act as though their opinion has the same weight of authority as people who do.

You are entitled to your preferences, but please recognize that they are based in taste, not personal knowledge. Not all Japanese translators will even agree in their interpretations, but it weirds me out that some non-Japanese-speaking fans will use this fervor to spread misinformation far and wide that proclaims as inaccurate perfectly good official translations, simply because the choices don't suit their own tastes.

The lists of "times the fan translations were better" I've seen mostly contain instances where the fan translators took greater liberties than the official release did, and some fans just happened to like the liberties that were taken.

We all reasonably hated the "best friend" fan translation of chapter 359, but somehow that isn't a point forever against fan translations the same way mistakes in the official release are?

At this point, it makes me wonder what the point of writing about linguistic nuance is, if the interest is primarily not in learning but in being told what you want to hear.

I know posting this won't win me any favor with anybody, but it's how I feel. I'm bummed about 405's last line in the official. I do hope it gets revised. But the vibes around translation details are getting decidedly unfun.

One last thought: if you well and truly want to experience MHA unfiltered, learn Japanese. I mean this sincerely, I'm not trying to be a jerk. We live in an age where it is easier and more possible than ever to acquire a new language, talk to people around the world, and absorb yourself in culture and history.

If you want to remove middle-men and develop your own relationship with a work unfettered by the tastes, biases, or choices of others, learn the language. It won't be easy, but I can guarantee you won't regret broadening your horizons and discovering even more beautiful stories in the world.

[simonalkenmayer]

So recently Elmo…who is a puppet on a man’s hand, asked people how they were feeling. The response gave us a glimpse into the zeitgeist of this decade. Humans are miserable here.

Larry David, a comedian who plays a character that rants and raves about things, picked on Elmo. Everyone went mad about it. They were willing to extend humanity to Elmo and defend it, but not see the HUMAN as human, nor indeed presume he too is playing a character.

Why am I talking about this?

Reminds me of when some people argued I’m a character, but then proceeded to try and call everything I said either abusive, racist, or ableist. Just for shits and giggles.

You cannot presume a character is giving you truth. Nor can you assume a character is real by sacrificing the human behind it. There’s a serious flaw in how humans think.

If I’m human, it’s a performance for some cause which you do not know, but usually performances are there to either expose truth or comment upon it.

If I’m a monster, then give me the personhood to which I’m entitled and allow me the same chances you have to learn and change my opinions in real time, not that they necessarily need it.

Humans however, splice meaning and reality together as seems fit.

My gentle readers fit into these three categories:

1. Humanize the monster and defend it with everything

2. Be angry at the human using the monster to comment on reality, without ever considering that there may be layers to the artifice, designed to create a specific scenario, a la an experiment.

3. “I’m going to give all that garbage a miss and just accept you as you present yourself”

Guess which one was statistically the smallest group.

Nevertheless, I am me. In this place, you have no idea who that is. You know only what I tell you. I don’t tell you everything because I’m controlling the rules for a reason. Hate me or like me, doesn’t matter. The reality of me will never be what you think it is, because everyone controls their presentation to some degree.

All the world is a stage, and we are merely players. No one knows anyone really. And so…the discussion regarding me, integral to the experiment, finds me much amused no matter the outcome.

This is why I do not have any emotional connection to what you say of me…whatsoever.

Your opinion of me is irrelevant. I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings—that your idea of me doesn’t have an affect on me as you wish it would…but ah well….i cannot make myself care.

That has always been so. The point was to find what you thought and why, not care about what you think or why. Not change myself or the artifice to suit you.

You weren’t the focal point of the experiment. Your behavior was.

That’s the problem. You think everything that comes out of you is a) important b) has bearing on reality c) unique or interesting and not a pattern anyone can see if they know what to look for.

It’s not.

Its your own need to have that meaning that gets in the way of accurately interpreting any reality

[myfairkatiecat]

I think you're misunderstanding my point a bit, the problem is not "accidentally agreeing with someone when they also disagree with you on other points". I agree that worrying about that is silly. However both my hypothetical post and the actual post, in my opinion, have the problem of presenting a false dichotomy which is indicative of bias. "We need more single mothers in media" is a point which is completely unrelated to the much stupider point of "there are TOO MANY women with jobs in media", and the fact of the matter is that being bothered by seeing women in media who have jobs is, not inherently sexist, but certainly something you would expect more from a misogynist than a non misogynist.

Similarly the original post pairs a point that many agree with - "more fandoms/media should portray close brotherly friendships" - with an unrelated (and in my opinion, very entitled) complaint about fandoms being too gay, as if it's not possible for both gay relationships and brotherly ones to both be respected and given validity without choosing one as the correct or more valid interpretation. Or as if, as the person who responded to that post was alleging, the post was trying to imply that interpreting characters as gay is inherently worse than interpreting them as brotherly. Given that that's a very bold claim, I think supporting that claim with "btw this same person has said this on the topic of gay people irl" is quite normal?

The reason context matters is not because valid points become gross and wrong when said by the wrong person, but because valid sentiments can be used to mask other, less valid sentiments. If you agree with both points, that's one thing, but if you think complaining that fandom is just too gay is indicative of homophobia, "the person who said that has also publicly stated that they don't support the LGBT community" is relevant information in that discussion. And I frankly think that "actually, my friend thinking that fandom is too gay is completely unrelated to that same friend thinking being gay irl is sinful" is a very strange claim that I struggle to believe, in the same way I would not believe it if someone said "the fact that I get mad when I see women on TV with jobs is completely unrelated to me thinking women shouldn't have jobs because then I could sleep with them more easily".

Ok so this is the post in question by @gracefulchristiangirl:

why aren't guys allowed to have strong brotherly friendships anymore without being queer headcannoned anymore. like- not all strong relationships are because of romantic or sexual desire??? some people have life-long friendships with other guys who are literally their brothers???

Reading comprehension check: “NOT ALL strong relationships are because of romantic or sexual desire.” This post is a response to the frequent sexualization of male friendship, which feeds a culture of toxic masculinity. If showing affection is consistently interpreted as inherently gay (like posting a gif of Sam and Frodo with the caption “there is NO heterosexual explanation for this” which does happen quite frequently) then straight men are going to be discouraged from being affectionate with their friends because, understandably, they don’t want people unanimously agreeing that they must therefore be a sexuality that they aren’t.

This post is about people erasing the possibility of friendship between two men when they see a certain type of behavior, usually expressions of care or love. This isn’t a response to “I think it would be cool if Merlin and Arthur were gay so I’m going to write a fic where they’re gay,” it’s a response to “look at the way Merlin is looking at Arthur in this scene with so much love in his eyes. Look at the way he holds him tenderly ad he dies. They’re literally so gay, like wdym they aren’t lovers??” One such statement owns that it is something made up by the person with the headcanon, while the other statement makes affection between two men seem inherently romantic! I used the merlin fandom as an example because I have seen that second statement made, almost word for word, and it’s sentiments like those that make me glad for posts like the one we are discussing.

The post is not about gay people. The post is about viewing close male friendships as inherently romantic or sexual in fandom spaces, which is unfortunately very common.

This post is also not about fandom spaces being “too gay,” as you said in your ask. *wags finger like an aunt* mm-mm-mm, that’s not what OP said! She didn’t say fandom spaces were too gay!

[ewesless]

Mine / Yours

No one in fandom owns the Obey Me characters or holds exclusivity to fanon or ships. Dating Game characters are like public toilets.

I adapted this as a way to cope with fandom life and I'd like to offer it as a tool for others too. This is not an attack and it is addressed to You because you are in control of yourself and your actions.

Since Obey Me features AUs/Alternate Timelines, and heavily encourages personal interpretation then I suggest that we each think of Our Versions as a unique, separate timeline that are under our full control. Everyone else's is Their Versions, which cannot affect ours. We must accept that we have no control over their characters or their interpretations.

If you don't like the way a fan writes or depicts your fav(s), or feel jealous or angry about their ship/self-ship then using this Mine/Yours concept will be helpful.

One of my favorite quotes is "Everyone is entitled to their own Wrong Opinion" and it gets me through difficult times around difficult people.

Obligatory Mention: I am not pro-ship, but I am an 'I don't have to see it. When I do see it I will throw a private fit, vent privately to friends, and block/blacklist' type. We should do more to take care of ourself and concern ourself less with what the other fans think and do. We can't and shouldn't try to control others.