#anti jacaerys Targaryen

[the-daily-dreamer]

You know what? I’m not done defending Aemond.

Firstly, Vhagar is the most powerful dragon in the current world, is over 150+ years old, and is not property to be owned and passed on. She had several owners Visenya Targaryen, Baelon Targaryen, Laena Velaryon, and Aemond Targaryen. None of whom were parent child relationships. The entire concept that Vhagar was a birthright is laughable at best. Dragon’s are not hereditarily acquired or passed down. Rhaena Targaryen had no more claim to Vhagar than anyone else who could become a dragonrider.

I can understand that as a young child grieving the loss of her mother, Vhagar is much more valuable to Rhaena and she would assume she could make a claim to her. But in the end, she didn’t. Vhagar wasn’t naturally hers to inherit. Dragons are not property; they are powerful creature that must be earned. And Aemond did just that by being the bravest ten year old and gaining the respect and trust of the most impressive dragon in the show.

Secondly, Aemond was bullied by his shitty brother and (even shittier) cousins, and he proved them all wrong. I keep seeing Targ, or more specifically Rhaenyra, stans talk about how sweet and wonderful Rhaenyra’s kids are, but last I checked sweet kids don’t bully and humiliate their cousin for the fact that they don’t have an extremely important family gift. They know he’s embarrassed by it. They know it bothers him. And they decide it hilarious to further humiliate him by giving him a pig: “the pink dread”. The kids are assholes, and Aemond proved his worth with his action of claiming Vhagar.

I already established he did nothing wrong by claiming a free dragon. But I think it’s even more important to show why he did it. Aemond was bullied and taunted by his cousins and brother for not having a dragon, and he decided to prove to himself and the kids who bullied him that he is brave enough and worthy enough to have a dragon. And not just any dragon, the greatest dragon. It’s a power move to prove himself against his, and he did it masterfully.

Thirdly, Aemond didn’t start the fight. That fight was started by Rhaena and Baela and joined by Jace and Luke. They all sought him out and started picking a fight with him. Rhaena is the one who made the fight first turn physical, and while I never agree with boys hitting girls, I also don’t agree with girls hitting boys. Violence is violence. Rhaena charged at Aemond with intent to hurt him and he pushed her off. He defended himself. Baela then charges at Aemond and punches him, when all he did was push her sister off him. He swings back (not cool but like...you try getting beat up and just taking it). Then all hell breaks loose. The conclusion on this point is that Aemond didn’t start shit. The other kids sought him out and started attacking him. Aemond simply defended himself.

Fourthly, and most importantly, the fight was completely and totally UNFAIR. Four against one is not a fair fight. All four kids circled him while he was on the ground and were mercilessly beating him. Again FOUR. Four kids, eight hands, punching him over and over. He pushed as many as he could off him and grabbed a rock for protection. And then when everyone stopped beating him, he lowered his hand with the rock. He clearly wasn’t going to beat Luke with that rock.

The only time he goes to be violent again is when Jace pulls out a fucking KNIFE on him and goes to stab him over being called a bastard (which is 100% true. The boys are bastards). Only then, when Jace has a knife does Aemond go once again to defend himself with that rock. Only to then get his eye cut out by Luke. Where in that scene does Aemond have anything fair? He’s the same age as these kids. He didn’t instigate anything, he was unfairly being fought by four kids (and winning too), and he defended himself against a knife.

Essentially, Aemond Targaryen is a child, and really didn’t do much wrong in this situation. He was bullied and harassed by his shithead brother and cousins for not having a dragon. He proved himself by gaining the mightiest dragon, which was his right as Vhagar was free to claim and isn’t hereditary property. He was sought out by the same shithead cousins and the Velaryon girls who instigated a physical fight with him and then all ganged up on him and beat him. And then he had his eye cut out for defending himself against a kid who pulled a knife on him.

If you watched any of that scene and thought “Yeah. This kid deserved to be beaten and mutilated by his bullies for taking a free dragon”...then you need help. That scene was disgusting and unfair, and Aemond was right.

[kataraavatara]

“the lords of westeros would never accept rhaenyra’s BASTARDS as rulers” the lords of westeros were having a wwe smackdown over who got to marry their children to them. borros b tried to peer pressure luke into breaking his lifelong betrothal and then cregan came in with the pact of ice and fire steel chair

[lunasglow]

“They bullied Aemond!!!!!!”

the bullies in question:

[thephantomofthenight]

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“The Team Black kids are boring. They have no individuality.”

I think it’s clear that the showrunners have pretty much thrown Jacaerys, Lucerys, Joffrey, Baela, Rhaena, Aegon and Viserys under the bus. There is little to no focus on them. And they did this because they want to make the Greens look better (making Aemond the poor sad little bullied kid, and Helaena a “dreamer”, which is non-canon).

GRRM developed each and every one of the Team Black kids. Baela and Rhaena had glowing and completely different personalities and they were not just smiling dolls (like they are on the show). Jacaerys was a true leader at only 15. Lucerys was pretty much a hero, saving his little brother in Driftmark, and Joffrey had more importance. Not to mention that Aegon (10 years old) and Viserys (8 years old) were constantly by Daemon and Rhaenyra’s side (and not just mentioned).

And if by “lack of individuality”, they mean being a family and a team (unlike the greens), then yeah, I guess the kids do lack that individuality (and I like it).

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

TG stans constantly complain about how "Rhaenyra was a threat" to Alicent's children. What I find interesting about that is not once in any scene of HOTD does Rhaenyra threaten her siblings' lives. Meanwhile, Alicent and her sons threaten Rhaenyra's children's lives in almost every scene they're in/discussed.

In episode 5: Alicent summons barely born Joffrey to her chambers; knowing how vulnerable newborns are. Criston pits teenage Aegon against prepubescent Jace and Aegon would have seriously hurt Jace if not for Harwin's interference. Alicent harasses both Viserys and Aegon about how Rhaenyra's children are bastards; something that could very likely lead to them being executed or exiled if Viserys chose to listen to her.

In the scene where Aemond loses his eye, that happens because Luke was trying to defend his brother. Aemond not only was about to bash Jace's head in with a rock, but also was screaming about how he and Luke would die screaming like Harwin. Then Alicent tries to stab out Luke's eye, something that would kill him (she was holding the knife to thrust it down and stab, not slash like Luke did).

From the first episode Rhaenyra's children are present, Alicent and the other greens are threatening their safety and lives. Even in the scenes TG stans point to the most often as "evidence" of the "danger" posed to Alicent's children, it's Jace and Luke who are actually in danger of being killed. It's Rhaenyra's sons who are being constantly threatened by the greens and it's her son who is killed first in the Dance. The greens are the ones who threaten and kill innocent children, not Rhaenyra.

[lovl3igh]

notice that when blacks talk about alicent's children it's "rapist" "murderer" "child slaver" "kinslayer" etc but the thing is when greens try to insult nyra's boys they say "strongs" or "bastards" like they really have nothing on them, it's hilarious

[saltywinteradult]

“there is no way in hell Alicent is going to abandon her children” why not?

Aegon’s a rapist and Aemond’s a sociopathic kinslayer, why should Alicent be forced to stay loyal to them?

I understand Rhaenyra why loves Jace, Luke and Joffrey because what’s not to love, they’re perfect. But I cannot see Alicent genuinely loving Aegon and Aemond after everything they’ve done.

It would be 100x more radical and feminist for Alicent to choose Rhaenyra, to put herself first, to stop letting men control her.

Goodness me, I hardly know where to start with this.

I don’t know how you think parental love works, nonny dearest, but it sure as hell isn’t "I won't love my children if they're not perfect people". That’s generally not how parenthood works. And Alicent loves her children. She was sold as a child bride and endured years of rape for the sake of producing those children. Raising and protecting them has been the main purpose of Alicent’s life for twenty years. How could she not love them?

In case you need proof, Alicent physically attacked Rhaenyra, arguably the big love of her life, because she was that angry (and rightfully so) about her son being maimed. Alicent went along with usurping Rhaenyra's throne, despite knowing it would lead to war and ruin what little chance she had left of mending things with Rhaenyra, because she loves her children and is desperate to keep them safe, and she believes that Rhaenyra would kill them to secure her claim to the throne. (Whether that is true is a different discussion - what matters here is that Alicent believes it.) Alicent stepped in front of a dragon to protect Aegon, for crying out loud. Aegon being a rapist clearly tarnished him in her eyes, and yet she still stepped in front of that dragon to protect him. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about Alicent's love for her children, I don't know what will. So I don't know that this is a case of Alicent being "forced" to stay loyal to her children, as much as it is Alicent choosing to stay loyal to the people she loves most in the world.

I would also like to point out that Rhaenyra's children are very much not perfect. Jace and Luke both participated in bullying Aemond. In case you forgot, it was Luke who literally mutilated and permanently disabled Aemond. It doesn't matter if Aemond was in the wrong for claiming Vhagar or calling the Strong boys bastards. He wasn't, but even if he was, cutting out someone's eye is not a thing that good people do. So I don't know where you got the idea that Jace and Luke are "perfect", nonny dearest, but it sure as hell wasn't from HotD.

I'm not going to argue over whether Luke maiming Aemond is more or less bad than Aegon raping Dyana or Aemond killing Luke (which is his fault, even if in this version of the story he didn't intend for it to happen). That's not the point. And please note, I am not making a single excuse for Aegon raping Dyana or Aemond killing Luke. I'm simply pointing out that it is extremely hypocritical to claim that Aemond and Aegon are unloveable because of the terrible things they do, but Jace and Luke are loveable when they both do terrible things as well.

And here's the thing. Rhaenyra clearly loves Jace and Luke anyway. Why wouldn't she? They're her kids and she loves them flaws and all. So why is it any less believable that Alicent would love Aegon and Aemond? Why are Jace and Luke loveable despite their terrible deeds, but Aegon and Aemond aren't? And if Alicent choosing Rhaenyra, whom she loves, would be a feminist storytelling choice, why would it be any less feminist for her to choose to stay with her family whom she loves just as much? Why are Alicent's choices only Feminist and Radical when they benefit Rhaenyra?

Even if it were true that Alicent abandoning her family and becoming lifetime president of the Rhaenyra Fan Club would make for a more feminist story - which, to be clear, it isn't - my first priority is not for the story to be The Most Radical And Feminist™. I want the story to be good. And I do not think that making Alicent abandon her family for Rhaenyra would make for a good story. It goes completely against Alicent's characterisation to have her abandon the family we're shown time and time again that she loves more than anything else. Not only would that be a betrayal of her character, it would undermine the narrative as a whole.

For better or worse, these two women and their relationship have been made central to this story. They are foils and they've each been made into the figurehead of their respective teams in every way, down to the marketing of the show. It would simply be bad storytelling to throw off that narrative balance by having them team up. It would completely upend the story being told. The point of making Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship so central to the show is that despite their love for each other they were still driven apart and forced to become enemies. Having them reconcile would undermine the point that this story is a tragedy.

[simplynotcapable]

it’s been two years since season one came out and i am still not seeing enough people acknowledge that every adult targaryen is a bad person except helaena, jacaerys, and MAYBE daeron if you tilt your head to the left and squint a little

[the-daily-dreamer]

I keep seeing people in the Sara Snow tag freaking out about her and Jace. I'm sorry to Team Black stans but Jace potentially fucking a hot Stark girl in the Winterfell godwood is the only interesting thing I've heard about his character. Not to mention, his relationship with Sara could actually give him a personality! But no! She's not his cousin so they hate her. Total BS

I really hope the writers do Sara justice and make it a compelling storyline that adds depth to Jace’s character and Rhaenyra’s relationship with her presumed heir.

Firstly, I am a Stark stan through and through, and I want the Starks in this show to be adequately represented.

Secondly, Jace is a very dull character and has nothing to him. I don’t understand how black stans can look at Jace and think he’s a compelling character when half the fandom can’t even tell him apart from his younger brother. Having us care even the tiniest bit about him through a relationship will make his death actually matter. As opposed to Luc who got like five mins of forced character development so people would care.

Thirdly, and most importantly of all, the situation with Jace and Sara will challenge Rhaenyra in new and interesting ways. With Viserys gone, Rhaenyra is directly responsible for anything that goes wrong now. She no longer has her father to defend her or make sure any mistakes she or her family makes are fixed. Now, Rhaenyra will have to deal with the political implications of her son breaking his betrothal with their greatest allies. She will have to look in the mirror and see she never disciplined her children or prepared them for the responsibility they would have to bare. Rhaenyra will be met with the same insolence and trouble she used to bring as a teen.

I think Sara could be the best thing that could happen to Jace’s storyline and the team black storyline. She could add romance, drama, a strong female character, and interesting and complex conflicts between many characters. I guess that’s just what happens when Starks are included in a plot, everything gets much more interesting. The power they hold is unmatched.

And yeah. Let people ship a Jace and Sara. She could actually give him some sort of character. Because clearly incest didn’t give him anything noteworthy lol.

(And this is just an aside, but showrunners please let Jace’s actor use his real curly hair. It looks so much better than that awful wig, and his curls make him look more like his father Harwin. Please. I can’t take anymore “Criston is Jace’s father” takes. Just let him have his natural brown curls. I beg.)

[sihtriggyr]

NOW THEY SEE YOU AS YOU ARE.

[daenerysies]

i’m being so serious rn i’m going to need tg to stop glomping onto half of rhaenyra’s kids 🫨

jace would NEVER abandon his family to back aegon’s claim (‘wah wah wah he HATES his mother bc she *made* him a bastard-’ one, jace does not care enough about that to abandon his mother [to whom he is literally the miniature version of] and two, his entire personality is his love for his family. he literally dies trying to save aegon and viserys *after* his mom told him not to go fuck OFF).

rhaena would also *never* abandon her family to back aegon’s claim (apparently she’ll feel sorry about blood & cheese and want to make amends with them. i don’t think so, i think she’d be more upset that her betrothed was ruthlessly slaughtered despite his status as a peace envoy but whatever).

baela is one of rhaenyra’s staunchest supporters (‘the greens reach to usurp our queen’s throne and they must be answer with fire and blood.’ i DO NOT care that it didn’t make it into the show that is canon!baela) and does *not* want driftmark (which only corlys has a say in, and he chose bAsTaRdS over her and rhaena at every single turn don’t even mention it), so stop trying to conflate your hatred of rhaenyra onto her daughter.

aegon iii would never have been happy married to jaehaera and vice versa. these were two heavily traumatized children. jaehaera would have to deal with being married to the son of the man who had her brother executed (not to mention that she already had severe physical and mental health issues that were not being treated and the people around her [aegon ii before he died and alicent after] were actively making her life worse). aegon would have to deal with being married to the daughter of the man who had his dragon burn and eat his mother alive while he watched. which he never ended up letting go of (even with a wife who we know he obviously loved dearly) he wore black for the rest of his life and was stated to be the most solemn king due to what he experienced during the dance. there was no saving them.

leave. them. alone.

[thephantomofthenight]

Rhaenyra could literally be described as the most entitled, boring, victim complex having, spoiled brat, in all of Westeros. (She’s not… but TG foams out the mouth while thinking it)

But you want to know what she’s not?

A rapist.

I rest my case.

All hail Queen Rhaenyra, First of Her Name!

[bee-unknown]

Me, someone who was adopted by my mom's husband when I was a baby reading all the comments from TG stans bitching and moaning about how Lucerys, Jacaerys and Joffrey aren't Laenors kids even though he claimed them as his own because they didn't come from his nuts

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Jacaerys Velaryon, a Prince of questionable parentage (whether it be true or false), turned out to be 10 times the man/leader than any one of Alicent’s “trueborn” sons (Aegon the Usurper, Aemond One-Eye, and Daeron the Useless) could ever be.

- confirmed by Green biased Maesters as well.

I love how GRRM addresses the issue of parentage here, and shows how children born under questionable circumstances can rise to be better than children born “the correct way”.

It also shows how simple-minded people in the Middle Ages used to be, believing that only children born from a sanctified union, could ever be worth something.

It’s not a coincidence that GRRM made Rhaenyra’s sons good, well-mannered, brave and loyal, while Alicent’s sons are all despicable, rude, anger-driven, and overall huge disappointments (yes, Daeron too. He ended up showing his true colors. Bitterbridge never forgets).