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Gay wrongs tournament, round one of the losers bracket
Propaganda:
For Jonathan and Martin:
Season Five is so funny for this. Jon is like nooooo I can't kill these people I'm enjoying it what does that say about me and Martin is like FUCK EM UP. I think they end up killing like three or four people as part of that. Very swag of them
they go around an apocalyptic london smiting people but only if jon feels like it
One of them is an avatar of an eldricht god of fear, the other one serves a lonely god at some point. They try to be good but they actually did some terrible things. Jon ate some people's fear, re-opening their trauma. Martin is all about murdering the people who hurt them, once the apocalypse rolls around. They're canonically in love.
They literally bring the end of the world about, and Jon is the human embodiment of the fear of being watched. They also both have no concept of private property or privacy in general (they have broken into so many places). They also both share an affection for cows. They were living their best cottagecore life as the entire world was being thrown into a fear filled apocalypse that they caused.
For Edward Nygma and Oswald Cobblepot :
they ARE evil and they DO actually murder people together. and sometimes they try to kill each other. literally bonded over being murders when they first met. have done innumerable crimes since. gotham's worst on/off-couple.
The epitome of "the couple that kills together stays together" except that they are also often trying to kill each other. But that's just how love is sometimes. But yeah, Oswald confesses his love for Ed, except he also murdered Ed's girlfriend a little, then Ed tries to kill him, but then he hallucinates Oswald's ghost singing seductively to him because he's also definitely in love with him. They both do so much murder and they are both so in love with each other in such a messed up but ultimately devoted way; I genuinely think they are the most murderous and husbandly murder husbands out there. Plus they have all the delightful campy themed flair of Batman villains!
Goth x nerd couple except they're campy supervillains who like to spice their gay drama up with murder and they have soooo many issues. The spicing it up with murder includes both killing the other's partner out of jealousy and just trying to kill each other many MANY times. I wish the memory of this show was fresh enough in my mind to give you a breakdown of their relationship but alas. Anyway, these two are like the most iconic thing in this show for me, not only for their relationship but their personalities individually
#losers bracket round 1#gotham series#gotham tv#the magnus archives#tma#martin blackwood#jonathan sims#jonmartin#edward nygma#oswald cobblepot#riddlebird
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aha! i have returned! with more supervillain au asks! >:D
What if they started dating before Virgil found out Roman was the Phantom? It'd probably be a lot angstier I'd assume lol
What was their first date like? I'd take Roman for the classy guy to take them out to some expensive fancy restaurant, but then something more private and romantic after, but could you confirm lol?
do they have arguments often? (i probably know the answer to this already but asking anyway lol) if so, how do they get resolved/how do they fix them?
i don't really have anymore official questions tbh but if there's anything/any tidbits or mini fun facts you'd like to add/rant about use this as an opportunity to do so!! id love to hear anything :D
Hello :3.
1. I feel like Skye (@thunderholtz ) and I have talked about it before but I can't remember clearly haha
I feel like they'd feel kind of betrayed but I can't recall much about how exactly it would go I feel like skye would be better equipped to answer.
Roman would probably be very calm and resign himself to accepting that Virgil might leave him and they they'd be hurt and angry and so he's prepared many methods on keeping Virgil with him or having them keep secrecy.
2. Their first date wasn't all that classy imo
Roman knew that Virgil would probably prefer a more chill and casual date than to a big and extravagant one. He might reserve a table at One of Virgil's favorite restaurants and after they take a small walk and then they go over to Roman's to cuddle and talk while they watch a show. Very sweet and chill.
You're not too far off! :D.
3. They do not <3
They might bicker sometimes and challenge each other with stupid and silly stuff but they almost never get into huge arguments.
Both of them are very logical so whenever they start to have a beginning of an argument they pause and go into separate rooms to calm down before meeting back up in the living room and calmly and carefully discuss and talk it out.
They get resolved so quick and without much frustration you can barely call it an argument. They just end up cuddling and exchanging affection.
They might have play-arguments however because they don't have any often. Its mostly them being silly and overdramatic bddjdbfb
Skye and I joked that they once had a "breakup" where they did one of their play arguments that ended with "GAAASSP how dare you, we're over >:0!!" and both know it's all a joke.
One of them acts offended and leaves and they pretend that they're spending time away from each other before they get bored and call the other back and they reunite with a playful kiss and monologue and they continue their lives like normal hahaha
4. Skye and I have many aus of this au it's insane
Right now we're talking about an AU where Roman's royalty and Virgil was hired to be his assistant. Because of circumstances, they start fake dating and because of Dominic and Analyn they get engaged.
We like to do silly things and concepts with this au. In every au of this au, Roman's still phantom and still some sort of heir and Virgil's still Nonbinary and still some sort of Journalist.
We also had an au where they met in high school in a boarding school and they were kind of Rivals <3.
You're free to ask about the aus of this au hahaha
#Supervillain au#Supervillain!Roman#Journalist!Virgil#romantic prinxiety#Prinxiety#sanders sides#ts virgil#virgil sanders#ts roman#roman sanders#thomas sanders#Ask#Iiemrys
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Ship it/Don't Ship it
Frostiron, WinterFrost, Winteriron, Pepperony. (The last I'm grinning evilly at because I will look forward to the angry discourse. LOL)
FrostIron
Ship It (I SHIP IT HARD.)
What made you ship it?
Around the time the first Avengers movie came out, I was just dipping my toe into Tumblr and Twitter fandom. I found and started following a ton of RP accounts on Twitter. And since RDJr is my favorite ever since Weird Science, there was a lot of Iron Man fanart on both of my dashboards. Shippy fanart started to slip in -- and while Stony was very prominent, so was FrostIron. My love for Loki had already started to bloom (plus, I was fascinated that IRL British Ginger Dork could, with a little hair dye, become My New Favorite Villain), and seeing him constantly paired with My Favorite New Hero -- and there was A LOT of very cool art --made me go Ooh. Plus, I befriended this awesome Tony RP writer who had an awesome RP thread with a Loki, and that, plus all the fics I started to read, just plunged me, heart eyes first, into SHIPPING IT HARD. I watched the movie 10x in the theatre, started watching all the interviews with RDJr and Hiddles, and eventually, I read a college au (that I loved) and decided I could totally write them even tho I hadn't written anything in a couple years. Thus, Dark Side.
What are your favorite things about the ship?
Besides the whole enemies-to-lovers thing? And besides the fact the ship was comprised of two of my favorite actors (at the time)? I mean, their whole dynamic is not so secretly my ideal relationship. The sarcastic barbs lobbied back and forth that rests comfortably atop the sexual tension the ability to keep up with each other is flamed on by. The intelligence that kind of quipping and humor requires -- and let's face it: someone is always hotter when they can stimulate your mind and your body. Add in the bonding that can happen over the shared Terrible Paternal Relationship and The Trauma That Makes Our Humor So Great and how they can heal each other, the debate between science vs. magic, and how they're much more alike than one would think. The fics that explore how discovering how much they have in common and how they learn to see each other in a different light (whether superhero and supervillain or not) are some of my faves and an element I often insert in my own fics. IDK, I just love them.
Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
Not really? Any gripes I have are more with authors' characterizations of them. I don't go telling anybody they can't write them the way they choose, tho. I just nope out of fics that have anything I don't want to read. And then I write my own. :D
WinterFrost
Ship It
What made you ship it?
Similar to FrostIron, I discovered WinterFrost through mostly RP. But probably what made me fall head over heels for this pair was dipping my toe into RP myself. The friend whose Tony Stark I loved mentioned in convos that they wanted to start RPing a Bucky but wanted him paired with a Loki. They asked me if I wanted to try my hand at RP, so I did. This was about 6-7 months before CA:TWS was released, so there wasn't much if any, WinterFrost content yet -- and it was actually still called Lucky at the time. Anyway, Bucky was post-CATFA, and my Loki was post-Avengers (we mutually decided to start there instead of post-The Dark World). They randomly met and organically began to fall in love. The truth is, this ship is special to me bc, as we wrote Bucky and Loki falling in love, we were falling in love. So, it's all kind of woven together with my own love story. Kind of bittersweet now.
What are your favorite things about the ship?
There is a bit of a dark element to WinterFrost that I'm kind of drawn to. The RP was the only place I ever really explored that (kind of) -- although I did have an idea to turn my PWP WinterFrost into a serial killer AU. I eventually abandoned that idea. For a lot of reasons. By dark element, I mean the darkness in both characters potentially being compatible and flourishing. Bucky as the Winter Soldier was almost devoid of emotion (except when he saw Steve, in the movie at least); Loki, in contrast, was highly motivated by his emotions but kind of let himself get battered and embittered by them. At least the way I wrote my Loki. Beyond that, there is a great capability for them to bond over their trauma (again, similar to FrostIron). There is no bigger troll than Bucky (c'mon, he grew up with Steve Rogers, ffs), and Loki would relish in the chaos Bucky would cause with his commentary. I feel like there's a mutual mending they can do for each other. Loki can help Bucky battle his demons -- as a demon slayer himself -- and Bucky can show Loki a love like he's never known.
Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
Nah. Similar to FrostIron, it's down to characterizations. I'll literally read anything about these two.
WinterIron
Ship It
What made you ship it?
I was already into FrostIron and WinterFrost -- and RPing both. So it was kind of like, "I ship Tony and Loki and Bucky and Loki, why not Tony and Bucky?" I RPd that for a bit, too. I haven't read or written a lot of this ship, so I'm not sure what I like beyond it being two actors I love, two characters I love, and liking that they could both find a little bit of happy with each other. Also, it's interesting to think about the internal crisis Tony would endure for falling in love with the man responsible for his parents' deaths.
What are your favorite things about the ship?
I honestly have no idea. Like I said, I haven't really dug deep into this one yet, like I have FrostIron and WinterFrost. It's definitely one of my smaller ships.
Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
No, but I wish people would leave WinterIron shippers alone. Way too much hate flung at this ship and the people who write it. It's annoying.
Pepperony
Don’t Ship It
Why don’t you ship it?
Honestly? It's because of Gwyneth Paltrow. I don't like her, as an actress, as a personality, as a hawker of vag candles -- whatever. I never liked her portrayal of Pepper. And don't come for me, y'all, bc believe me, I know how this sounds -- but I thought she looked too old to play Pepper. Yes, she was only 34, and RDJr was 43, and that's an age gap in itself (and coincidentally, Leslie Bibb was 35, which btw she does not look older than GP and...yeah). I think I felt the way they were portraying Tony Stark's womanizing ways it didn't make sense (to me!) that he'd go for someone closer to his age and stick to younger women. (Blame my brother. He's been dating girls my age and younger since high school. His first son's mother is my age. She was 4mo along when we graduated from hs. He dated a slew of girls near or around my age well into his 30s. His second son's mother was 6yrs younger than me. He's gross, I know. I tell him all the time.) Anyway, I love Tony and Pepper's dynamic in the comics (the few I've read), and when I RPd a Pepper (I did not use GP; I used my idea of a perfect Pepper: Jessica Chastain), I was told the way I wrote her was closer to comic!Pepper than MCU!Pepper, which I gathered was a good thing. People often misunderstand that my distaste for Pepper has nothing to do with the character herself. I LOVE the character. I think she's a badass, and I think she's the best working partner Tony could have -- which is why probably why I always writer her as Tony's closest confidant. But I also think they did Pepper a disservice by casting GP.
What would have made you like it?
A different actress, lol.
Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?
Like I said, I love the character of Pepper. She's a great foil to some of Tony's more grandiose ideas and she has a way of handling him without him realizing he's being handled. Maybe I'd ship it if she didn't start out as his secretary? There's something very creepy about a relationship between a boss and a secretary to me. Idk. As Besties, I love Tony and Pepper. Beyond that? No.
Don't come at me yall. @mischief-and-tea-by-the-sea made me say all these things. LOL (jk ily!)
Thanks for asking!
Ship It/Don't Ship It
#ship it/don’t ship it#frostiron#winterfrost#winteriron#not tagging the other one bc i don't tag my hate
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I've been reading the blog for awhile, and you've said in a few places that you think of Nappa as the sort of default Sayian, that he is your go-to for an example of the way a typical Sayian would be. I don't know if you've said it before, but how did you decide that? Why Nappa, and not Raditz, or maybe a movie Sayian? The blog is really great, thank you for such awesome content!
Thank you for the kind words, and the good question.
I was going to answer this yesterday at work, because it was shaping up to be a long, boring day, but then it turned out to be a long, busy day instead. So today seems more favorable. Anyway, you're right, I have described Nappa as a "typical" Saiyan, and I'll try to explain why I think so.
Of course, Goku is the first Saiyan introduced in the series, but even he had no idea until Raditz showed up, so Raditz is really the starting point for all Saiyan lore. The thing is, he's a solitary character for the episodes he's in, and while he carries himself like an invincible supervillain, we later find out that he's one of the weakest characters in Z. There's some inconsistencies about the guy, in part because he has so few appearances, but also because we never get to see him interact with other Saiyans.
This isn't a knock on the character, by the way. In fact, I'd suggest that a lot of Raditz' popularity stems from the fact that he didn't stick around very long, and there's a lot of lingering questions about the guy, and fans love to fill in the gaps. For example, we know he spent much of his life with Vegeta and Nappa, but we almost never see the three of them together. I think there's one filler flashback in the Frieza saga, and that's it. Everything else is unofficial or fanon or what if kind of stuff. How could a "weakling" like Raditz have such a haughty attitude and manage to stay on Vegeta's good side?
With Nappa, we don't have to speculate, because we saw him with Vegeta in every appearance. So we know they got along, and what Nappa had to do to keep Vegeta happy, and what it took for him to make Vegeta turn on him. And we might well assume that Raditz was the same way, but that just proves my point; we have to use Nappa as a reference in order to extrapolate things about Raditz.
Now, we can argue that Vegeta is much more suitable as a point of reference, since he was in all the same episodes as Nappa, plus all of the other episodes he was in, but Vegeta's too unique. He's the prince, the last of his royal bloodline, and while most of the Saiyan lore we know comes from him, a lot the things he says are biased towards his worldview. For example, Vegeta's the one who introduced the Super Saiyan Legend, but a lot of the details turned out to be wrong. He insisted that Goku could never become one, and then Goku did. Vegeta ruthlessly killed Nappa, but clearly Nappa didn't see it the same way. Nappa wanted to revive Raditz with the Dragon Balls, and Vegeta refused to consider it. So when Vegeta talks about Saiyan exceptionalism, a lot of times he's describing what he thinks Saiyans should be, and ignoring the realities of what they are.
And I think the Bardock TV special bears that out as well. Bardock's crew aren't royals or "elites", but they still have a lot of the same attitudes as Nappa. They talk excitedly about their battles, they're friendly around each other, and they're absolutely brutal in the field, but not completely without sentiment. Ceripa thought Bardock should visit his son, and later Bardock mourned the death of his crew and became desperate to save his home planet. On the other hand, Vegeta didn't seem to care at all.
Turles and Paragus kind of fit in the Nappa paradigm as well. They're both renegades, kind of a "what if Nappa went into business for himself?" kind of scenario. Turles isn't interested in vengeance or supremacy, he just wants to find a cheat that makes him strong enough to do as he pleases. And Paragus is sort if like "What if Nappa survived Vegeta's betrayal and plotted revenge?" He knows he's no match for the prince, but he's cunning and ruthless enough to find a way. Also, he's got that sentimentality to him: he cares for his son, at least to an extent.
I'm not saying all these characters are Nappa clones, though. It's just that they resemble Nappa more closely than they do Raditz or Vegeta, which led me to the conclusion that Nappa is a good starting point for making a Saiyan character who isn't a royal or an infiltration baby like Goku.
At least, that's been my approach with most of the Saiyan characters in my fic. Well, not the Time Patroller Saiyans, I mean the ones who lived in the distant past. Just a bunch of roughnecks who can be vicious or cordial, depending on the situation. I made some of them very different from Nappa, but again, I was still using him as a guidepost, even if I was navigating away from him.
The same applies to Luffa as well. Actually, I just used a Nappa line in Luffa's dialogue recently, and it fits like a glove. I haven't brought up Super Saiyans in this discussion, because I feel like that's a different deal. Goku's the prototypical Super Saiyan, and all subsequent Super Saiyans are ultimately a response to him. But when I was figuring out who Luffa was, I was determined to make her distinct from Goku and Vegeta, and that led me to Nappa. I see him as sort of an "every-Saiyan", and the idea was for Luffa to be an unremarkable Saiyan who turns out to be extraordinary, just like Goku, but without the Earthling upbringing.
And some people may read this and point out other characters like Gine or Beets, but those guys weren't a thing back when I was figuring out Luffa back in the day. Still, I think the recent Saiyan women characters fit pretty well with my own image of what Saiyan women would have been like, so I think I'm on the right track. Again, this is all just my opinion, but it's been a successful approach for me.
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here's some grishaverse ships!!!! darklina nikolina zoyalina genyalina zoyanikolina zoyalarkling nikolarkling? darkling-nikolai-alina? i'm out of names jesper and kaz jesper and wylan just bc they're normal
Darklina
Already did this one!
To give some more opinions, I like it most when he’s either at his cruelest or most pathetic. The best scene was when he threatens to skin her 🤷♀️
I love the pettiness of them having a telepathic bond and using it for fucking psychological warfare. Or well the Darkling does. Alina takes way too long to catch on and needle him as much. I wish she’d gotten the chance to fuck him up more. But anyway I generally find it so funny how much of the dynamic relies on her just being… fairly normal and then he’s Like That.
I love Alina as the constantly weirded out, narrative and comedic straight main to his supervillain melodrama.
Nikolina
This has been my TGT OTP for awhile, me and like five other people lmao. I like it most in AU and canon divergent scenarios tbh, partially because their dynamic is really chill and I love conflict and angst. I like it when there’s some aspect of pining, unrequited feelings, or just the shadow of other issues looming over the relationship. Like I love this ship in situations where they’re PerseveringTM together despite The Horrors, basically?
And I mean I’ve already talked a few times about how I really like their polar opposite priorities and ambitions. They contrast each other fairly strongly while still getting along very well. And that’s something I usually find very compelling. I like this ship most for AUs where they like self actualize/compromise/learn to cope with shared trauma etc. I want them to work through shit and learn to be happy!
Zoyalina
Rivals to lovers is soooo fun! Alina can’t go two minutes without mentioning how hot Zoya is. And I think LB genuinely meant it more for reader info/to get into Alina’s insecurity but it reads SO gay.
There’s like two main dynamics I really like for them. Okay three. But one is like a riff on early SAB era, where they bond while still both under the Darkling’s thumb, despite being pitted against each other. The other is like leaning into a devotion, saint and warrior/bodyguard/devotee type thing. Third is post R&R Alina retreating to her orphanage and it being explicit in the epilogue that Zoya visits and writes and even gives her a kefta because she’ll always be Grisha. And idk I’m just obsessed with Zoya, who’s so unused to that sort of kindness, being gentle or drawing her out of her shell in her own gruff way.
Genyalina
I love them!!! But also the plot just doesn’t give me much to work with past SaB. That inherent conflict of Genya lying to her and never sending Alina’s letters, while genuinely connecting with her is SO good. I love it, and that’s my favorite dynamic for them. And I also love the explicit comparison drawn between Genya’s own trauma and being exploited by the king, and Alina being groomed by the Darkling even if Alina’s not herself fully like cognizant of it. (Kind of similar to the SaB era Zoyalina dynamic, girls connecting over being manipulated and controlled by men/the same man even is a dynamic that I find very compelling) But past that point in the series I don’t have as much like… thoughts about them? I still love them and love when they interact but it doesn’t intrigue me in the same way.
Zoyanikolina
Okay okay maybe this is the real OTP… OT3… series ship of all time. KoS (more the idea of it than the execution) did convert me to Zoyalai to an extent, the pining is soooo good. And I already love Zoyalina and Nikolina separately so obvs the best way to go here is to smoosh them all together lmao.
My fave take is facilitated through a Nikolina political marriage that’s kind of complicated for everyone involved. And meanwhile Alina seeing all the insane pining going down and being like. Well. Are you going to do something about this or???
I may be writing this lmao so I’m generally thinking about it a lot. But Alina being the most emotionally intelligent one while simultaneously very NOT self aware about her own feelings is just very funny to me.
Zoyalarkling
So having confirmed that this is Zoya/Alina/Darkling hm! Hm! Not sure I can see this one except in very very particular circumstances. I feel like the Zoyalina dynamic when they’re both still into the Darkling is defined by rivalry and being in competition with each other. So I don’t think they’d be… happy about a poly scenario. But also the Darkling’s probably TERRIBLE enough to be like Ah yes here is my teenaged harem. So I could see a very fucked up version. Meanwhile I just don’t get the sense that Zoya harbors like any attraction whatsoever for him the way Alina does after Everything Goes Down. I could see some kind of insane hate fucking scenario, but like only very particularly?
I can’t help but make Hannibal comparisons when I think of KoS type scenarios/anything where they keep the Darkling jailed. But I could see Zoya as his jailor being very interesting (Chilton or Alana Bloom esque) And we canonically have him like demanding to see Alina, though again canon didn’t do nearly enough with it. So could I see a weird psychosexual SOTL/NBC Hannibal arc for these three? Mayhaps.
Darknikolina
Love them! I’m generally a fan of Darklolai and I think there’s a lot of very interesting unexplored territory in terms of what the dynamic between Nikolai and the Darkling even is. LB, even in KoS, tends to skirt around how they perceive each other fairly carefully? I think probably because she knows how much it’d expose the painfully thin politics and court set up lmao. But I think there’s room for very personal loathing —> fascination.
Anyway I am really interested in circumstances where like Nikolina get married For Politics and then the Darkling’s just in jail 5ever and things get weird. Or alternatively (I basically wrote this already) but a bad ending scenario where the Darkling wins and they’re both basically his captives.
I think there’s also a lot of mileage to be gotten out of the Darkling basically lying dormant inside Nikolai lmao/at least some of his power remaining there. And there are interesting body sharing weirdness places you could go with that. And complicate it even further by bringing Alina into the mix.
Kazper
This was probably my favorite SoC ship dynamic lmaoooo which I mean I knew was never going anywhere! But then gets further tanked by the clear comparison between Jesper and Jordie. I just really liked that initial pining set up where Jesper was desperate to prove himself to Kaz, to just get him to at all give him the time of day. And Kaz is just… frankly kind of cruel to him! Idk the conflict was really interesting. I would’ve loved to see the dynamic explored
Wesper
Eh. I didn’t really like them in the books tbh? I think they had some effective scenes in CK particularly but also like it wasn’t effective in a shippy sense to me necessarily. I did actually like them in the show a lot! So that’s made me more partial to it. But it’s still just not something I’d bother to think about outside of actually watching the show/reading the books.
#grishaverse#shadow and bone#I’m not tagging all the ships lol#ship bingo#ask games#all the bendy punctuations#i ramble sometimes
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So sorry to do this to you but who is your FAVORITE oc of all time
omg thank you so much for asking Pixie, [vibrates a normal amount].
Infodump UNLOCKED: my favorite homemade blorbo of all time is a player character i made for my friend's DnD campaign. Nox (they/them) is a genderfluid changeling trickery cleric who is very silly and slutty and i love them with all my heart. I actually have a blog for them @meme-me-a-man! they have a #tragic backstory in which i started my long line of orphaned characters whose parents were killed when they were a baby. idk why i do this but Nox at least was adopted by a nice elf priest guy who was NOT prepared for this bundle of mischief that was dropped on his temple's doorstep. Nox essentially grew up queer trans and poc in a white Catholic environment and ooh boy they did not like that. Had to hide their changeling nature because of fantasy racism so they became a hot twunk half elf named Arolar (he/him) for a while and left home to pursue musical, theatric, and comedic performance because they're a wannabe bard. anyway, a few personas, lots of drugs, crime, and gay sex later, they find themself running away from a pissed off ex girlfriend and landing in [campaign based city] where they meet the stubborn twink who becomes the love of their life (as written and played by my friend who DMed), Ecoté (he/him). Ecoté is a fiery half elf tiefling college of swords bard with a flair for drama, an alcohol addiction, and internalized homophobia (he is VERY repressed) which nicely counteracts Arolar who is the flirtiest pansexual on this side of the Fantasy Mississippi. It turns into this whole thing where Nox tries to hide their identity while doing plot things while trying to fuck and eventually Arolar nails a date with Ecoté and they BOTH get kidnapped. Nox is almost revealed and Ecoté becomes suspicious and has to have a pep talk from his princess friend who accidentally found out about Arolar earlier, because Ecoté wants to trust him but is so so so very stubborn and traumatized. But eventually Nox comes clean about everything and they KISS and I've created endless AU scenarios about the two of them ever since. (Their ship name is Necoté)
My main WIPs with them rn are canonverse (DnD world), college AU (party boy x RA), fairytale AU (fey prince x knight bodyguard), and comic book AU (superhero x supervillain). I love them a LOT, if you can't tell. Something about two characters that can fall in love over and over again in different times and different places in different roles where they act as narrative foils that contrast and complement each other really just Does something to me.
#drugs mention#alcohol mention#addiction mention#infodump#oc infodump#bardass speaks#asks#my oc#rambling#nox#my WIPs#ask about my ocs!#thank you :3#dnd#changeling#d&d
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There is something that makes me a bit sad and is the lack of Ferdie/Hob during Promotion, he's not even part of the official poster and I get it they probably didn't think he'll be as loved as he was for someone that showed just half an episode but still wish we could get a bit more promo because as everyone else he did an amazing job.
Ferdinand did an incredible job, yes, and I would personally like to kiss him on the mouth for taking one look at the script and going "ah yes, time to play this as gay as humanely possible." The writer who did the interview the other day said that they didn't necessarily plan on Hob/Dream being romantic, but the actors had so much chemistry and they just went with it instead of resisting it. So yes, they were just like "what the hell, this is a show for the gays, just let Ferdinand and Tom make sex eyes at each other!" And I for one salute that decision.
Anyway, that same writer used both the Dreamling ship name and the words "fan favorite" to describe them, so they're clearly aware of the reaction and how nuts people went for them from half an episode. If Netflix wants to stop driving me to become a supervillain and renew the show for s2 ANY FUCKING DAY NOW, hopefully that would impact how they write it going forward. Because the people are Hungry. So Hungry.
Also: a) Hob is a supporting character in half an episode who doesn't appear again after that, there was no reason to put him on the promo, and b) you younguns need to remember that official/canon/Voice of God recognition, while it is always nice to get, has absolutely zero impact on what fans can and do enjoy, transformative works, and the whole process of fandom. People get so hung up on the idea of Official Status as the only marker of what's the Right thing to enjoy, and just like, I am over here as a Fandom Old going "shh, it doesn't matter!" I was shocked (and delighted, ofc) that someone on the writing staff openly acknowledged Dreamling and called them a romance, but I would be just as happy aboard the good ship SS Dreamling if they hadn't ever mentioned it or essentially confirmed it was intentional at all. Fans, especially queer fans, are so unused to getting Official confirmation of queer ships (which is why they have started relentlessly bullying and harassing creators for it instead, but I digress) but for a long time, it wasn't even thinkable at all.
Anyway: yes, Ferdinand is great, I am very happy that they both actively leaned into romantic Dreamling and admitted that they did, pre-release promo means nothing anyway (as does any other Official metric), fandom can do what they please but should try not to be dicks, and NETFLIX I AM NO LONGER ASKING. I AM ON MY WAY TO THROW BAGS OF FLAMING DOG POOP AT YOUR HOUSES UNTIL YOU GIVE ME SANDMAN S2.
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A COMPREHENSIVE Argument for Evil Lovesquare (Felila)
Alright, so, first things first: s5 Feligami isn't gonna be a thing. I'm like, 99% certain that the Felix Kagami convo that was leaked was REAL, but was him manipulating Kagami. As Felix is wont to do.
That said, I won't completely deny the possibility of Feligami happening later. However, I don't really like it on account of the fact that Kagami deserves better. Kagami is a queen. She IS the moment. And Felix, as much as I adore him, is the fucking worst. Like, in the best way, don't get me wrong, but he's the worst.
That being said, I think there's a Felix Ship that works great: him and Lila.
Click Keep Reading for Brainrot.
Alright, you clicked keep reading, you have yourself to blame if there are spoilers.
SO
According to the bible, Felix will have a peacock supervillain form called Argos, and when Hawkmoth is defeated, Lila will take the Butterfly and become its next holder, called Chrysalis. I suggest that the ideal course of action would be the following:
Argos and Chrysalis become the next main villains for seasons 6 and 7, and MAYBE beyond.
Both Lila and Felix continue to have prolonged stays in Paris so they can supervillain there.
During this time, both of them go to the same school as Marinette and Adrien.
Lila develops a huge crush on Felix at school.
While supervillaining, Argos gets a huge crush on Chrysalis.
Thus completing the EVIL LOVE SQUARE. During this time, I imagine that Adrienette will be dating but the reveal will still be a ways away, though it's also possible that they'll both know each other's identity at this point. Either way, while Felila likely won't get the immense attention that the lovesquare did, It could be a way of keeping a bit of that classic will they won't they flavor that we grew to love and hate in spite of the original being more or less resolved.
Now, I know you guys are asking the obvious question: HOW WOULD THIS MAKE ANY SENSE FOR THEIR CHARACTERS. And I'd agree it makes no sense if we wanted the dynamic to be JUST like our love square, but I wouldn't want that. Let me paint you a picture of how a Felila lovesquare could work. We'll go corner by corner.
FELILA
We'll start with Lila->Felix attraction first. It's not hard to see why she might see him this way: he's a lot like Adrien, her current crush, but they're both evil so they'll be on the same page more often. I genuinely could see Lila pursuing him just cause she really likes him, trying to use all the same tactics on him that she tried on Adrien.
Now, Felix would not reciprocate. But unlike Adrien, not due to obliviousness. Felix would simply look down on Lila. Like, imagine how much Felix already would look down on Lila, and now add on the notion of Felix simping for a supervillain. Lila would be like a cockroach to him
But she'd be a useful cockroach.
Think about it. As Chrysalis's ally, he'd have a vested interest in helping her find people to akumatize. So Felix would very much enjoy Lila's help, considering how good she is at making people feel awful. Felix would likely form a bond with Lila, if only a utilitarian one.
Of course, Lila wouldn't mind getting used at all. After all, she's Chrysalis, and she wants to akumatize people. The two of them would have no idea the degree to which they are on the same page.
Which brings us to the best part: Felix would be convinced he has to manipulate Lila. Which means he'd have to pretend to not hate her and give some VERY mixed signals, trying to motivate her by implying he'd like her more if she did the evil shit she was going to do anyways.
Couple goals, truly.
Over the course of this, they'd talk a lot, and Felix would likely begin to find he has more in common with her than he thinks, something that would probably upset him. The two of them would get along, share in sadistic schadenfreude, and they'd both notice at the same time: Lila reacting with simpish glee and Felix reacting with existential horror.
But then, of course, he has to keep up appearances. He has to pretend he likes her, has to keep her happy, so sometimes he'd have to go along and do things to please her, do things she wants of him.... but he's 100% doing it to keep using her, NOT because he's starting to enjoy it.
CHRYSIGOS
I was gonna call this one Chrysilos but that's to similar to her actual name.
Anyways, this is where I try to sell you on the notion of Felix ever developing romantic feelings for someone.
So, first off, let's build a profile for Felix and what motivations he MIGHT have. First off, he seems to be a villain in the same vein as Hawkmoth: he's not after world domination for its own sake or anything, he just is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve some specific end.
Think about it: He could have just taken all the miraculous with him instead of the peacock. He could have kept the dog rather than giving it to Hawkmoth. He did that because he ONLY needs the peacock. He doesn't want it because he's trying to get ultimate power, he's doing it because he needs something SPECIFIC done.
Now, it could be that he's a sentimonster and simply doesn't want to be controlled. However, either way, he DOES have some other goal, because otherwise he wouldn't become a supervillain.
It's entirely possible that he has some goal and that Chrysalis will help him with it, or promise to help him make it come true if he helps her get the ladybug and cat miraculous. Possibly just to get him on her side, but possibly also because she holds some basic respect for whatever Felix's plan is. Maybe she holds a similar trauma to him and he actually hits a softspot. This could be a moment where he starts to warm up to Chrysalis.
Another thing that could endear him to her might involve Chryslis's personality. Similar to how marinette is far more confident as Ladybug, Lila might be less insecure and prone to compulsive lying as Chrysalis, and her Machiavellian nature might be used as a kind of ruthless pragmatism rather than as a means of getting people to like her.
I mean, I know it's hard to imagine Felix McEdgeninja falling for ANYONE, but if he DID have a type, would it not be a ruthlessly manipulative and pragmatic badass who does whatever it takes to get what she wants and says things how she sees them? It'd be game recognizing game, and it's probably not every day that Felix sees a girl like that.
As for the Chrysigos dynamic? Personally, I'm picturing it as Argos offering his entirely unsolicited help. Chrysalis does, to some extent appreciate Argos helping her, but he can also be a bit of a pain. I can imagine he sometimes goes against her wishes when their goals clash, for example, so it's possible Chrysalis would have mixed feelings about using him. He's TOO competent, TOO capable of taking things in his own direction. She prefers more easily controlled followers.
But the thing that MOST annoys her about working with this asshat is his CONSTANT flirting. He keeps calling her petnames (Lady Chrysalis? My Little Butterfly? Princess? Leave your preferred pet name in the notes) and will NOT stop making sweet talk.
"Oh, we make such sweet villainy together, do we not?" "You sure make a lot of noise."
She keeps telling him that there's someone else for her, but he insists that whoever it is, there's no way that asshole measures up to him, and one day she'll see what she's missing.
Every time she akumatizes someone, he'll show up to take advantage of the chaos for his own purposes, help her with a sentimonster, or often times: BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.
He'll often use the akumatized villain as a medium to speak directly to her if she's not showing up in person, much to her chagrin. She'll get irritated and tell the villain to say mean responses to Argos in return, distracting her from the mission a lot of the time, more than likely earning some teasing from Argos.
One time, she'd try to akumatize him, and he'd willingly accept, more than happy to help her. But the moment she tries to command him to give her the peacock he effortlessly breaks out of it, letting her know that while he's MORE than happy to be her supervillain any day of the week, he can't just give her the peacock.
She would DESPISE this man.
But damn, he is pretty useful, isn't he? More and more she begins to incorporate him into her plans. And, truth be told, while he grates on her, she does somewhat enjoy their banter after a while. And, he's the only person to ever love her for who she TRULY is....
But NO. NO. She's not here for something mushy like that. She found a boy she wants (Felix) and she will do what it takes to make him HERS. It does not matter in the slightest to her if this annoying pigeon happens to be fond of her.
Of course, though, when it comes time to choose between getting Ladybug and Cat Noir's miraculous and saving his life, she's going to choose to save his life. And she'll come up with some excuse as to why that made strategic sense.
CHRYSALIX
AKA Evil Ladrien.
This one, like with Ladrien, can't get too much focus because if it does then things will go awry. In the case of the Evil Love Square, things would go wrong because if Felix learned that Chrysalis liked him, he'd just reveal his identity to her.
That being said, there is still ground to explore here. Obviously there's the potential of her akumatizing him. Though, she'd very rarely set out to: if her modus operandi is pissing people off so she can akumatize them, it's unlikely that she'd want to akumatize her crush because that would mean pissing him off intentionally.
Ironically, her not doing this might irritate Felix: I mean, he's been waiting for her to try and akumatize him, what's taking so long?
When she does, it'd probably go wonderfully. He'd be enthusiastic to help her, she'd love him finally being at her back and call for once, and he'd make for a VERY competent supervillain. The two of them, together, would easily be able to take on Ladybug and Cat Noir... or at least, they WOULD, if that damn ARGOS didn't pick today of all days to go AWOL.
She'd probably akumatize him a number of times, and each time they'd be absolutely loving doing villainy together. But in the end, Felix knows that these moments won't work out. Without the peacock, they're just weaker off. So he sees these moments less as a chance to win and more as a chance to have fun.
ARGILA
AKA Evil Marichat.
Here it is. The hot mess of the 4. While Marichat acted like close friends because that's how Ladybug saw Cat and how Adrien saw Marinette, Lila sees Argos as a pest, and Felix sees Lila as an insect.
Comedy ensues.
Argos knows that Lila is necessary to keep akumatizing people, so he probably has incentive to keep her safe, so no doubt he'll swoop in to save her once or twice.
Lila, of course, hates this guy's guts, so she'll be a total pain in the ass for him the entire time, constantly lying to his face and trying to belittle him passive aggressively. Of course, he would see straight through her lies, only angering her further.
Argos, finally able to be honest with her like he can't be as Felix, might even get very direct and insulting towards her, which could make for some fun, spicy arguments between the two with harsh insults slung both ways.
There may be times they need to work together, a la marichat, and while they do think lowly of each other, they both share a lot of common goals and work GREAT together. A fact which will consistently piss both of them off. Both of them, working towards a common end, trying to hold on desperately to the resentment they hold towards one another... could be fun.
CONCLUSION
Evil lovesquare would be so much fun. It would let the showrunners do so much with these 2 characters, offer plenty of room for growth, and just be plain entertaining. It'd be wildly dysfunctional, but in a fun way where they both kind of deserve it. But, hey, maybe love can redeem in the end.
I REALLY hope we get this. It's too good for Zagtoons not to do.
#miraculous ladybug#miraculous ladybug spoilers#felix graham de vanily#lila rossi#felila#mlb spoilers#mlb#lovesquare#love square#evil lovesquare#evil love square
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Thoughts and Reactions to Truth!
Just going to go straight into it because this episode is huge! I really like how at the end of a season and the beginning of another, we see the same scene that leads us out of one and into another. Gabriel fixes the Miraculous and ohhh poor Dusuu thought it was all a dream, being in evil hands. So in a way, the Miraculous being damaged may have been a blessing for her. Dx Too bad it couldn't have been fixed after Marinette got it back :/ But at least Nooroo isn't alone right? Legit only positive I can get from this. ;-; Tikki and her little hats omg it's so cuuuute! I wonder if she makes her little clothes, too awww But the other Kwami's are almost like siblings to Tikki if you think about it. Now Tikki has to share things with them all as they cause chaos all around when she's so used to her quiet life alone with Marinette. Even for a Kwami, that must be hard to adjust to.
Okay so it's almost Prince Ali's birthday that Paris is going to celebrate. Interesting! I'd really like to see him back and a storyline with that. :O Marinette holding something, clearly, that the girls can't see over video chat. Talking to what appears to be herself, reacting to what someone's saying from different sides of her room. Camera flashes going off. And then her phone getting yeeted at her all on a video call with her friends when she's supposed to be alone...considering they're all going to have Kwami's and learn some things later as they become heroes, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think back to this scene someday! OH WAIT spoiler for the upcoming episode Gang of Secrets!!! Fair warning. What if this episode with the plushies she said she's going to make, is one of if not the reason they go over and are looking around her room? Because she's been acting sus and they want to know what's going on. Especially after what happens later in the episode with Luka. Okay, back to the episode itself. Her friends observation: You're acting way weirder than normal.... IS ADRIEN AT YOUR PLACE?! I mean, fair point. xD But the thing is, whenever Marinette tends to act weirder or say/do things that Alya and the girls don't understand, it's almost always connected to her being Ladybug/Guardian. Even Lila. If she wasn't Ladybug and dealt with her so much as her, she wouldn't know a lot of things that made her not trust Lila to begin with. So Marinette has to overcompensate to try to hide everything or can't explain her thoughts or feelings about certain situations, so Alya always just assumes her behavior has something to do with Adrien. It really sucks but at the same time, what else is she going to think?
These Kwami are a lot of trouble. xD Now she's even more frazzled, so she calls Luka Adrien. More than once. I've done this where I call my siblings the wrong name more of than I'd like so I can't fault her for it. Her mind's probably a mess, poor girl. Dx "I'm sorry it's just that I cheated on you!" BIG OOF. But this gives me Kim Possible vibes when Ron assumed Kim didn't want him anymore and told her he was cheating on her when he meant to say he was cheating to be on the football team so he could be more worthy of her when he thought she wanted to "trade up" her boyfriend. Our poor Marinette! So frazzled she can't remember when her dates are, when they've been rescheduled. She can't remember her patrols with Chat Noir which are really important. She's getting to the point where it's going to be a wonder she can even function. Dx "But Marinette and I are such a big fan of his" wow this sure hits different. The way they kept quizzing each other to finish the sentence with Jagged Stone trivia was pretty cute. Luka having her finish the line with "Kiss me" that she screamed to the entire theater made me choke on my cake. "Well, if that's what you want." Smooth. "I think, yes. I want to." But you know, it gets interrupted by an akuma attack of course because that's just the way things work! :D And wouldn't you know it, it's Mr. Pigeon. AGAIN. Totally worth interrupting the moment lol Ladybug can't pick and choose, however, so here comes the sequence where she's constantly running off and he starts doubting her. Notice the parallel when Marinette started to like Luka after Adrien could never show up to things? Now Marinette's having trouble showing up and Luka's having issues with it. The second Chat Noir started to sneak up on Ladybug, we all knew he was going to get flipped. But it's so adorable and funny at the same time I love it x333 And that whole scene there of Ladynoir. Obviously it's a Lukanette-centered episode but the Ladynoir in this episode! So good! And you know, it's interesting. First time we see Adrien this episode is for FIVE whole seconds! And the way it abruptly cut off as he opened the car door... yeah you know what, Lies is going to be Adrien's POV or something of this same day. It has to be. He has 2 total scenes one of them is 5 seconds and the other one is 2 seconds. Crazy. We got about 7 seconds of Adrien's face today woo! But ugh here's where we get hurt Luka ;-; "A girl, who as always, isn't here." Ouch. The fact that if Marinette said she loved Adrien still, he'd understand and he'd get it is so sweet, and so sad that it's not even because of that, it's because she's Ladybug and the Guardian and she can't say a thing about it to him at all, that he can't accept. It's the one thing he couldn't deal with that's the issue and that really sucks. AND THIS MOMENT RIGHT HERE HAD ME GASPING AND HURTING FOR LUKA. IT'S THE MOMENT HIS HEART BROKE
But also really guys, did you notice his eyes are different now? Almost like a blue diamond look or something.
Luka trying to fight it, trying to tell Hawk Moth that the truth needs to be willingly told, not forced. But stupid Hawk Moth's able to get him to hold on anyway and gets akumatized. But not before he told Marinette to run. Which was such an awwww moment. x33 I mean, this is definitely getting a bit close to Chat Blanc territory if you ask me. New transformation music is pretty good! I like it. Also can we just appreciate that instead of trying to track down Marinette to get the truth from her, he's instead asking all her friends and family, pretty much any source besides her? AND ROSE'S RESPONSE "Marinette has no secrets because she's the most honest girl in the world!" She thinks so highly of her and it's just so beautiful. Nobody would blame her for these secrets if they only knew either. But awwwwww I love this scene!! And here's the big reveal! (no not that one) Jagged Stone is Luka and Juleka's father. 😮
Thomas today tweeted that Luka and Juleka are twins. Which would have to be fairly obvious after this reveal. There's no way that Jagged, who says he'd be a lame dad and left because he wasn't cut out for it, would have Luka with Anarka, then stay long enough to also have Juleka. I also totally forgot that in the French version, Jagged has an American accent when he speaks. XDD Just the fact that even WITH his truth powers, he asked his mother TWICE who his father was. Both times she said Jagged Stone. He still didn't believe it until he went to Jagged himself omg. This poor poor boy. Luka: 😱*gasp* Marinette: 😲 *gasp* Adrien: 😮 WHY IS THIS SO FUNNY OMG. LIKE I'M WATCHING A TELENOVELA OR SOMETHING. THEY EVEN ZOOMED IN ON THEIR REACTIONS I CAN'T And then Luka just yeets his dad because he wasn't ever there for him. I honestly did not expect Luka having dad issues to ever be a thing in this show, even though I knew he wasn't around. So like... when everything's worked out with Marinette and Adrien in the end, will Luka and Adrien end up becoming friends and bonding over things, like the whole daddy issues thing...? Are we really supposed to believe she has no feelings for Chat Noir? I mean really, look at this.
"I can't imagine what your daily life must look like" ... is she really actually being the one to bring up something about his secret identity? With that face? 😲
Their flirty banter that at this point I don't even think they realize it is, and those soft looks I just... My top ship is Ladynoir and I was not expecting any significant moments of theirs but I got it anyway. Just watching their scenes, I kept going "See, this is why they're meant for each other." My heart is happy despite all the Luka pain! It's helping me cope with it, okay? "When you're ready, I'll be here for you, Marinette." Awww so they're telling us Lukanette is on hold here. Not a guarantee, but at least on hold. He's an option for her later. So now the Adrienette vs. Lukanette for S4 we heard about awhile back makes sense now. Later on this season, probably when things calm down and she gets the hang of things, she'll be in a better position to be with someone. And by then, Adrien will probably realize and understand his feelings for Marinette. So then she'll be in a position to choose between them. Now we know where Luka gets his ability to turn emotions into great songs. That's adorable! Father-son bonding! Gabriel needs to take notes when a man who was never in his son's life as more than his idol has the ability to try to be there, but Gabriel can't. Ugh our poor Marinette, probably thinking she's going to be alone for a very long time just because of a supervillain. That's so wrong she has to feel like this. If you notice, Hawk Moth's akumatizations help people patch up relationships so much of the time as a weird unexpected result of an akuma attack. And yet, he does nothing but hurt Marinette and at times Adrien, the most when he akumatizes people. He makes me so angry! But I'm too tired for a rant about that. At least the Kwami hugs at the end helped a teeny bit anyway! c:
#ml#miraculous ladybug#ml season 4 spoilers#ml spoilers season 4#ml spoilers#truth spoilers#ladynoir#lukanette#miraculous tales of ladybug and cat noir#truth reaction#truth thoughts
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Opinion on Steph Brown? I love her sm, and problems I have with her lay in the writing and how the rest of the characters treat her (as if shes lesser or not good enough). I think her personality and history (supervillain father, everything with her mother, and the stuff with her pregnancy, her death and the aftermath) is really interesting and has tons of potential to be explored. I like her relationship with Tim a lot, both platonically and romantically. They're so cute, and from what I've seen they're super supportive of each other. I also adore her friendship with Cass, and they'd make such an adorable couple.
i absolutely love stephanie so much 🥺 shes literally one of the most interesting characters in the dc universe (im biased bc i think all three batgirls are the most interesting characters but anyways) and shes also one of the funnest characters to read imo. her personality is SO outgoing and fun and i love her humor, her strength, the way she never backs down, not even from bruce and her ability to just befriend anyone. and i totally agree that any problems with her lays in her writing, not her as a character. which is something i wish more ppl understood lol like they always blame her for ooc writing even tho theres literally nothing she can do. it makes me sad that they pushed her out since the reboot even though theres so much they could explore with her :/// and even though they've finally given her the bat symbol again, its still clear that shes very much on the outside which i hope changes. i love her relationship with tim so much jhbhabshj i miss their early robin/spoiler days when they used to go on their cute little dates. i love them so much theyre literally so cute and their banter is SO GOOD. i also love her relationship with cassandra 🥺 i miss how close they used to be and the tag games they used to play and how they used to help each other I MISS THEM. i love timsteph and stephcass both platonically and romantically i have two hands i can hold them both at the same time
#I LOVE HER SO MUCH#SHES SO SMART AND SO CLEVER AND SO FUNNY AND SO FUN#her batgirl run is one of my fave dc runs ever#i miss her :(( i wish dc would treat her better#anon#asks
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So in your earth - 3 verse the owl family seems more tight knit than the batfam - if I'm right. They even make sure Jason is more so in the group than the batfam. They also make it more of an effort to do that - even to the point of 'too much.' How else is the owl family different from the batfam. Besides the fact that they're bad guys. Like each character and how they differ between the alternat version of themselves. Also if the two were to meet what would they think of the other/respond?
I know you already wrote where Nightwing and Nightingale switch universes for a little bit but if they (had) to work together or something, even if that would be filled with conflict. Also do you think that some of them might be jealous in some way of their alternat self. Like Jason seems to have it somewhat worse in the batfam verses the owlfam. Tim perhaps as well. And how do you think after having to 'work together' they would end up veiwing the other?
It's not that I see them liking each other - no. But actually perhaps growing to resent each other on a more personal level. What do you think
Well, probably the simplest, biggest difference between the Bat vs Owl characters is just because of the variations on how they were raised.
Below follows a lot of discussion of my Earth-3 universe, Nightingale, etc.
Starting with the differences...
- Dick was actually pretty similar up until Bruce, though his childhood had more of a focus on show business, but Bruce encouraged him to get revenge for his parents and set him on a much darker path than canon Dick. The Owl version plays hard for an audience. He doesn’t let himself rely on basically anyone, and he views almost everyone as at least a little bit inferior to him. He saw his parents die, trusting each other and the rope, and he’s not going to ever let himself make that same mistake. He trusts his family, is viciously protective of them, and would burn the world and himself to make sure they survive. He’s still the workaholic, he’s still the one to make the sacrifice play if he thinks he has to, but he hides that loyalty because it’s also a sort of weakness.
Nightingale, on the outside, plays to everything that makes people underestimate him. He’s pretty and he’s lithe and if you make the mistake of thinking his attractiveness makes him less dangerous, you’ll end up on the sharp end of a knife real quick. A blade is easier to hide when it’s smiling, instead of glaring at you. (And a flirt distracts and unnerves people; makes them sloppy.) Nightingale exploits every weakness in other people, especially the ones that he causes himself.
A Nightingale that met Nightwing would think that he was full of weaknesses, and Nightwing would be horrified at the potential that he could turn out like this, if things went just the right way. There would be a mutual respect of talent and skill, but Nightwing would want to jail/contain/neutralize Nightingale, and honestly Nightingale would probably want Nightwing dead. After all, Nightwing is a living, walking example of all the things that Nightingale doesn’t want anyone to know about him (that he loves his family, that he has a hell of a temper, that he works himself to the bone more often than not, etc.). No one would walk away happy from that, if they walked away at all.
- Jason is somewhat more stable in the Owls, but he’s also a lot more screwed up in different ways. Dick’s got him all twisted up around his fingers, and trying to go a different path from the rest of your family is a lot harder when the rest of your family are a bunch of murdering psychopaths instead of, you know, heroes. One version gets you stuck in jail, the other gets you stabbed and repeatedly dragged back to them. On the other hand, it’s harder to ignore someone killing when you don’t want them to, as opposed to the Owl version where every once in awhile Jason just does something heroic and/or not totally in line with family wishes, which mostly just provokes irritation.
So I wouldn’t say that he’s necessarily got it better than canon Jason. It’s somewhat easier early on, but he doesn’t agree or like all the family tactics and those kind of dislikes build up over time. Sooner or later, Jason’s going to need time to not be around that kind of easy violence. That might not go well.
Canon and Earth-3 Jason meeting would go, I think, fairly smoothly. They’re both fucked up, but they’re both somewhere in the morally grey area and they share a love of the rest of their family. There would be some commiserating about being the respective black sheep of their families, but really Jason - in either world - I think is too grounded to want to try and change or interfere with another universe’s version of him. Once they got the situation figured out, things would go peacefully.
- Tim is... He was neglected, terribly, in Earth-3, but this tiny Tim didn’t have a Robin to look up to, he had a Talon. He puts together this information that Bruce Wayne is the Gotham urban myth/supervillain/terror of the night Owlman, and he watches Talon, and he sees an answer to all his problems. A role model. When Jason dies is really the tipping point. Bruce becomes unstable, he gets violent in rage instead of from calculation, and Tim steps in to offer himself as an apprentice to restore the order he’s seen come to life under Owlman’s rule. He doesn’t do things in halves either, so he goes to Bruce and he offers himself, and he asks for Bruce to kill his parents (who he barely really knows anyway) and take him in.
Tim in Earth-3 is a maladjusted, nearly sociopathic killer that sees people as either people that can be used, or are useless, with the rare exceptions of those that he truly comes to know and respect/be loyal to. (Bruce, Dick, and later down the line, Kon, Jason, and Damian as well.) Those are also the ones that actually treat him as someone close to them/loved, and he’s honestly so starved for that attention that even scraps of it are enough to keep him completely loyal to someone.
He hates being out of control, he doesn’t like other people having an advantage on him, and he’s learned that in a world full of people stronger than him, the best defense is to have strangleholds already in place for anyone that might be a threat. The rest of his family is, physically, more dangerous than he is, but Tim studies people and he pinpoints exactly how to beat them, and that makes him a terrible enemy to have.
Tim meeting himself would be... perilous. Canon Tim, like Dick, hates seeing how very twisted and evil he can get, given the proper motivation. Earth-3 Tim, on the other hand, probably just thinks that canon Tim isn’t worth his time. (Except maybe to pick his brain for any ideas that may not have occurred to him.) If canon Tim gets in his way, he’ll kill him; otherwise, may as well leave the threat alone and avoid it, if possible. Why take the risk?
- Damian really is more or less the same. In both worlds he’s raised in a family that’s trying to teach him one way of live, and then he comes to Bruce and he learns a different one. One that he thinks is difficult at first, or doesn’t fully understand, but quickly becomes accustomed to and enjoys, inevitably picking it over Ra’s’ side of things. Damian of Earth-3 might actually be a little bit less of a rage-ball. In the Owls, he’s accepted for any and everything he might be, with the only condition being that he remains loyal to his family. If that means he loves animals? The other Owls will gladly support that habit (even if there will be a bit of teasing). He wants to go out and take out all his bad feelings on someone? They’re there for that too.
The main difference? The Owls do not take shit from Damian. There’s no ‘he’s a kid, go easy on him’. There’s no Damian ousting Tim from his position. Pecking order (forgive the pun) is very well established in the Owl family, and Damian being Bruce’s son doesn’t mean that he gets to jump to the top. Dick earns Damian’s respect/slight fear right off, with his initial ‘let me test you’ sparring session, and when Damian tries to press his ‘blood son’ advantage over Tim? He gets his ass handed to him. Tim takes him down hard, and Damian is never stupid enough to try it again. Tim gives up his position willingly, and Damian becomes Talon, the latest apprentice.
I think if the Damians met, there would mostly just be unease. These are versions of themselves that, from their point of view, fell to what they rejected. If possible, I think they’d be best suited by parting ways as soon as possible, though neither would be willing to let the other run around in their universe. The only peaceful way that happens is if they can split and go back to their own worlds, otherwise it’s a ‘I must stop you’ situation.
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