#anyway this is an Interesting marriage

[guinevereslancelot]

first base is wound tending second base is hand touching

[qiu-yan]

wow this post got depressing really fast. sorry

if you think about it. if you were just some random no-name cultivator who somehow got invited to the phoenix mountain night-hunt, and you heard something about 1. hanguang-jun of the sterling reputation, 2. wei wuxian the demonic cultivator already flouting social norms, and 3. a forced kiss....which would you believe? that lan wangji forcibly kissed wei wuxian? or that wei wuxian forcibly kissed lan wangji?

depressing thoughts.

[usercelestial]

tbh i think a lot of the people saying "well both sides are wrong"/"bt stans are just as toxic" are just not exposed to other perspectives in this fandom. as a buddie fan who's been watching this show since s1, i can safely say that buddie fans have always been toxic. like as fact. to me, to say that bucktommy fans are just as harmful or just as annoying or just as bad as buddies consistently are is just. delusional. indicative of at worst a biased opinion and at best an uninformed one. buddie has been here since s2 and fans have ruthless ever since. bucktommy has been here for 3/4 of a season and for the most part, stay in their lane. i'm sure there are bucktommy fans who suck, like that's just being on the internet, but you have to be blind to ignore how insane buddie fans are and genuinely how much worse they are in comparison.

i don't want to generalize and i think constantly adding that disclaimer is annoying as hell bc obviously i'm not talking about everyone but because buddie has been here for so long and taken up so much mental space of very die-hard, passionate fans, you're going to see much more intensity on that side. after season 5, i had to step away from the fandom and the show because of how frustrating it got. it was annoying to see people swear up and down buddie will be canon by the end of s3-no wait s4-no wait s5-no wait- and ultimately it sucked my enjoyment out of a show i otherwise enjoyed because i got swept up in the Buddie Of It All and forget about why i watch the show to begin with. we've been left to stew in our theories and now we can't tell what canon and what's fanon anymore, and when the show reminds us, the disappointment and frustration kills our hopes.

i was also active in the dan and phil fandom and supernatural fandom, like ik why people think we're annoying and it's because we are. we make everything about the one thing we like, we comment on every post begging for it to become canon, we're violently disappointed when the show doesn't play into our fan theories because we've convinced ourselves buddie is going to happen by the end of the next episode or actually the end of this season or actually maybe the end of the next season. we've torn a part every female love interest, either making them boring or making them unlikeable in our fanon. all that to say is that when people call us annoying, they're telling the truth and when bucktommy fans say buddie fans are toxic, they're coming from a sincere place. i mean we can't even enjoy our own ship because we're so quick to get our hopes up and be let down about something as stupid it becoming canon. who cares if it becomes canon, just like it to like it.

and it makes sense why there's perceived "toxicity" on the bucktommy side. our energy is being matched; the obsession, the passion, the surge in fandom. if you don't like it or even just find it annoying, i suggest you guys look back on your own posts and comments and behaviors towards other people in the fandom and other characters and unbiasedly compare it to the Toxic Bucktommy Shippers you're claiming you hate. if bucktommy fans are obsessive, it's because we've set the stage for that. if bucktommy fans are getting aggro and defensive, it's because buddie fans have been on the opposition and don't know how to turn it off. we've gone from underdog to bully somewhere in the last 6 seasons.

[bunisher]

i just…. still cannot believe that they had frank quote oscar wilde and wear purple and have a whole arc surrounding closeted gay men and expected me not to notice!!!

[korpuskat]

I am not sure if omnics and humans can actually get married, but I like to think that Ramattra would want to make you his partner «officially». Maybe without the wedding, the papers etc, he would just silently kneel and slip a ring on your finger that he (of course) made himself, just for you. Oh, that’s why he was touching, holding, squeezing your hands more often lately - he was trying to figure out your size, you think. Later on you would notice little engraving on his finger, imitating the ring that humans wear and robots don’t. You are a family.

HIM SIZING YOUR RING HIMSELF...... ENGRAVING A RING ON HIS OWN HAND AAAAAAAAAH?????????????????

What I love so much about Ramattra is that... I think fairly soon after he acknowledges his feelings for you is he would realize you are everything. He's all or nothing, if you crack that shell you are a part of him and he would know so, so early on that you are reshaping his future just by existing... and as such he will have been thinking about this for so long, debating what he could do that wouldn't endanger you or himself, but something that was... meaningful.

[vigilskeep]

I know you went into this briefly before. But truly. HOW INSANE adding a child into the Isabelamance arranged marriage Hawke.

Is the child expected to inherit? Does it remove potential matches Hawke could have had, potentially making the fiance lower on the social ladder than Hawke?? The implications?? Does Isabela even LIKE the kid??? What if the kid gets seasick. What then. How does no attachments no complications Isabela allow herself to fall in love with THE most attached man in Thedas.

AND THE KID WOULD BE OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE AGENCY AND OPINIONS AND AND SHIT IN ACT 3 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAJHHH

making this woman the not-stepmother to a kid growing up in a hightown estate just to feel something

[pynkhues]

literally sooo fascinated by logan and caroline's marriage tbh. give us all your thoughts!! (if you want ahah)

Oh, man, I could talk about them all day, haha. I kinda feel like people can sometimes rob both Caroline and Logan of any nuance, because yeah, sure, they’re often the central antagonists of the series, and their abuse and neglect of their children permeates the series, but the show’s always also been careful to show that the cycle of violence never started with Logan, and Harriet Walter’s talked in interviews too about the cycle of neglect not starting with Caroline either. They’re victims and perpetrators in the same way that Kendall, Roman and Shiv are victims and perpetrators, and the fact that neither of them were able to break that cycle is the exact sort of tragedy that's at the broken heart of this series.

It makes it really fascinating to me in that sense that Caroline and Logan found each other at all, and I think really slots into what we know about his three marriages – namely, that he marries women who are in some ways as damaged by life’s cruelties as he is. We understand that explicitly with Marcia, who pretty much says out loud that their connection has been born out of the fact that they’re both survivors, but I think it’s implied in his relationships with both Caroline and Connor’s mother too. At least Marcia and Connor’s mother became somethink like partners for a while too – Marcia was a co-conspirator with Logan for the bulk of season 1, and the RECNY Ball episode I think also showed that Connor’s mother, for at least a while, was the sort of socialite who could lubricate and work politicians alongside Logan.

We don’t really know what role Caroline played in that sense, but she’s obviously intelligent and savvy enough to have worked to secure the kids real power in the divorce, something we see her give back to Logan in 3.09. We also know that her title gave Logan the class elevation that he wanted (even if its one he also seems to bitterly resent), and that his money gave her security, and in a lot of ways, that’s a strategic match that sees them both step forwards in power together.

I was actually listening to an old episode of Vanity Fair’s Succession podcast recently where they interviewed Dame Harriet Walter, and she talks quite a lot about Caroline’s backstory.

She says that Caroline was born into a neglectful aristocratic family, an only daughter who due to the social structures of British aristocracy, wouldn’t have inherited her father’s estate as a result of her gender. Instead, his estate would’ve gone to a distant male cousin, which ties into what Connor says in 1.09 to Willa about the house being the ancestral home Caroline didn't inherit.

She was disregarded by her family but encouraged to marry rich, and she sees Caroline as having gone through a bit of a wild child phase, that she partied, used drugs, tried to escape herself. That she was probably featured frequently in the social columns ‘in disgrace’, and then married young to a rich British man who bored her. She sees Caroline as having escaped to New York on a trip, and met Logan who dazzled her. Who was the opposite of the men she’d grown up with, the men who’d cut her out of her own inheritance, and that he was exciting and creating something and married too, and that they likely left their spouses for each other. That he married for a title, but he also married her because he found her fun and funny and different from the other women of her class and station.

I actually love that backstory a lot, and in particular I think it feeds into the themes of cycles on this show, both with Shiv, but also in Caroline being cut out by her own family, and then cut out by the one she tried to make for herself, and the damage that likely caused her. It also I think really beautifully depicts this idea of legacy and succession which is so crucial to the show – that Logan can spend a childhood brutalised by a man who’d give him just enough to build an empire on and that Caroline can spend a childhood in luxurious neglect with parents who will leave her with nothing.

What that meant for their relationship - - I think they did love each other, as much as they could love anyone, and I think that vulnerability between them was something that probably allowed them as true an intimacy as they’d ever have for a while. I also think that that vulnerability and that intimacy gave them power over one another that they’d use often and likely cruelly, and that the final years of their marriage were probably torturous for both of them.

After all, at the end of the day, Logan had the wealth Caroline could marry but never inherit, and Caroline had the title Logan could marry but never inherit, and what is that if not a reminder of the poisoned soil they sprung from?

[fountainpenguin]

Things that happened in Martyn & Cleo Double Life canon:

Cleo hoping to find her soulmate and start a life with them

Cleo dumping Martyn without giving him a chance to explain his side of the story, but hearing him out when he comes to her later

Martyn watching Cleo through his spyglass and telling the audience she seems safe and happy even though he thinks it's weird she's outside at night

Martyn, after he's had time to consider how he wants to play this, spinning a story about trying to be a provider for her and Cleo explaining that she wanted him, not things

Cleo not being remotely impressed by the "I was providing" sob story, lol

Martyn calling Cleo selfish for choosing to be with Scott because she's supposed to be HIS soulmate and he wants a partner

Cleo willing to forgive Martyn if he meets them halfway

Martyn refusing to meet them halfway because he doesn't think he did anything wrong

Martyn screaming about how Cleo's building bridges with Scott but "When will she think about mending our bridges???"

Martyn explaining to Cleo that he doesn't understand why his Session 1 actions bothered them

Martyn centering his character arc and roleplay on trying to win Cleo back without actually apologizing

Cleo giving Martyn a flower and stating that if he loses it, she'll be real cross with him

Cleo chasing Martyn out of her yard because he tried to put an HOA sign on her base and she wanted to make it clear that she wasn't associated with them and their hate for his base (even though she does think his heart base is strange)

Martyn attacking Cleo after she said attacking is a form of affection to her

Cleo setting boundaries with Martyn and explaining what he can do to get her back

Cleo sighing when Scar set her up on a date with Martyn, but taking the chance to talk to him instead of walking out

Cleo genuinely wanting Martyn in her alliance

Martyn and Cleo giggling constantly when they chat

Scar asking if Martyn wanted him to play a romantic music disc for him and Cleo (and Martyn getting excited and saying yes)

Martyn offering to take Cleo's armor and weapons to the deep dark so he can enchant them and bring them back while she stays safe

Cleo gifting Martyn diamonds, expecting nothing in return but not wanting him to die from lack of a good sword

Martyn and Cleo forming a secret alliance that allows Cleo to live with Scott while being on good terms with Martyn

Martyn expressing frustration that Cleo wants to keep this alliance secret because he wants them to be public allies; Cleo softly shushes him when people approach and might overhear

Martyn telling Cleo that she's putting out a lot of mixed signals because she keeps reeling him in and then pushing him away, claiming he is very confused about where he stands with her

Martyn teasing Cleo by punching her off a cliff and accidentally killing her and feeling so bad about it that he apologizes profusely despite roleplaying as someone who refused to apologize for Session 1

Martyn and Cleo immediately threatening Bdubs together when he said hi to them while they were hanging out, sdkfj

Martyn genuinely apologizing to Pearl for dumping her after Session 1

Martyn hiding under Cleo's bed while she defends him from an enderman attack

Cleo offering to let Martyn move into her house after Etho and Joel grief his base; Martyn saying he might take her up on that

Cleo and Martyn agreeing to move out and base together at Box

Cleo trusting Martyn with the location and resources of her red life base

Martyn rushing to Cleo's aid in the deep dark and trying to turn everyone against him instead

Cleo responding to Martyn's panicked shouts for her to eat by opening her inventory to get food (and drowning because she forgot she was in water)

Cleo hanging back and letting Martyn attack Scott while she does nothing to stop him from doing so, implying as much as she likes Scott, she won't kill Martyn (and herself) for him (and/or she trusted Scott to handle himself even though he ran away while Martyn was shooting at him)

Things that did not happen:

Cleo unwilling to forgive Martyn or consider being his friend and partner

Martyn and Cleo hating each other

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[good-to-drive]

In a similar vein to the Paul and Linda question: would you say George was a good husband to Olivia?

I’m afraid I don’t know a whole lot about their relationship, unfortunately! I feel like Olivia is playing it pretty close to the vest, possibly out of respect for George’s passing, or maybe she just doesn’t like people in her business. 

I’ve outlined my thoughts on George and Pattie and why that didn't work out, but as for why things did work out for George and Liv I really can’t say. It may be a Paul and Linda situation where he continued to be a black hole of emotional need without a huge amount of regard for his partner’s needs or feelings, but he found a woman who thrived on emotional caretaking so it worked out for both of them. Or maybe George really did change as a person and they had a much happier relationship than you’d think looking at all those affairs.

The truth may lie somewhere in between. Maybe Liv, as compared to Pattie, was more in a position to be in a relationship that was “about” her partner’s needs over her own (Liv is older, their lives were more stable, etc), and George’s emotional needs were also less overwhelmingly powerful than they were when he was with Pattie (he was older, their lives were more stable, etc).

All this being said, George and Liv did genuinely seem very happy together and Liv is still so madly in love with him, so whatever arrangement they had behind the scenes must have worked for both of them. And honestly, just like with Paul and Linda, I think that's the most important thing.

[myhairsadisgrace]

I played a trivia game with my family two (2) nights ago where one of the questions was something like "which is the only four-person rock/pop band where each member wrote a #1 hit song?" and no one else got it right because they all guessed the beatles. and I'm gonna be honest I'm still riding that high

[wayward-wren]

Thought too long about Hermoine daughter of Meneleus and Helen and got sad

[greenerteacups]

I’ve just completed your most recent chapter and what a delight it was from start to finish. The slow burn continues to be delicious, and you’re doing an amazing job of gradually adding bits of kindling to the flames to keep DHr’s relationship progressing (and to feed us readers). This most recent chapter was a textbook definition of fic that gets me giggling and kicking my feet.

I’m always amused by our sweet Victorian child Draco’s reaction to sex, and the reference again to sheets and friction sent me. I’m pretty sure this isn’t the first time Draco has been nearly undone by his bedding, and it got me thinking about Pureblood culture’s views of sex and intimacy.

I know oftentimes in fanon, we tend to get Slytherin sex god/goddesses who are having their first sexual experiences pretty early, though occasionally we get a more prudish/Puritanical Draco. We know in Lionheart’s universe, Narcissa alludes to a certain level of hanky panky with Lucius in the RoR, and it certainly seems like Draco had imagined any number of acts with Hermione, even if he hasn’t acted on them in public or perhaps even privately.

If it’s not spoilery, I’d love to know more about how Pureblood culture in Lionheart generally views sex/intimacy, especially inside/outside of courtship and marriage.

It's a mixed bag! I think the Slytherin sex gods thing is a kind of wish-fulfillment (loving compliment) because, put bluntly, the number of 15-17 year-olds who are even kind of charitably good at sex is a mathematical rounding error. Also, Hogwarts has group dorms. Sexiling one person in college is hard enough; imagine you have to sexile (i.e., declare publicly your intent to fuck) 3-5 people every time you want to mess around. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it absolutely does — it's a coed boarding school, you can't fight the wind — but I will say it's probably more at the realistic level of high schoolers fumbling through the excruciating ordeal of learning intimacy, and not "the plot of Euphoria is happening in the dungeons at all times."

Anyway. I interpret the wealthier pureblood set as a kind of wizarding aristocracy, so while in general they're expected to perform to certain expectations and social mores when they're in social/public settings, the fact of the matter is it's the twentieth century and sexual mores are changing a LOT from decade to decade. Narcissa's upbringing would have been radically different from Draco's in terms of how much sex and intimacy would have been open subject — in no small part because Narcissa's generation kind of blew the ceiling off that particular conversation. She was born in 1955 and lived through the Sexual Revolution, meaning that her childhood, adolesence, and young adulthood took place in practically three different geological eras of social life. Meanwhile, women like Walburga and Druella were members of the Greatest Generation (maybe Silent Gen on the younger side), and would've been incredibly traditionalist.

Of course, no matter what the social rules are, teenagers will find a way around them. For the purposes of Lionheart, in 1995, it's understood by most pureblood parents that kids are gonna do what kids are gonna do, but there are specific standards about who you can be seen with and make certain kinds of promises to. Narcissa kind of references this at the end of book 3; she goes on this insulting little spiel about how generations of Blacks and Malfoys had secret muggle-born pets that they kept on the side, they just didn't bring them to dinner parties. Basically, what you do in the privacy of your bedroom is your own business; just don't get caught and don't try to push boundaries, and your social set will be understanding, up to a point. But it would be absolutely improper for "dating" or "courting" to take place between a muggle-born and a pureblood, because that expresses the intent to associate with them in Society, which is a discrete sphere with its own set of rules — one of which is that you have to enforce the caste system.

With respect to specific mores and rules, there's a few references to "etiquette." That stuff's inspired by real etiquette manuals from Victorian and Edwardian England, though I've occasionally thrown in my own twist when it suits me. Dance with the one that brought you; you should have an escort to balls, theoretically but not necessarily someone you're interested in; women run the household, men run the estate. There are certain standards of chivalry and respect on the men's part, but there are also standards of ladylike conduct and decorum on the girls'. Daphne is shocked when Katie wears a suit to the Ball— to the point where she's like "?? ARE you a girl?" — because the rules of dress and poise have been so drilled into her. The level of slut-shaming we get from the Slytherin girls (despite several Slytherin girls being sexually active) also indicates how female sexuality is policed in a way male sexuality isn't; the rumors about Draco and Daphne hurt Daphne, not Draco. This double-edged hypocrisy runs hand in hand with the idea that women are training to be wives, and shouldn't be sleeping with people (if anyone) who they're not seriously pursuing for marriage. Relatedly, courting/engaged couples are usually seen together, a la Crabbe and Millicent, because the idea is you're supposed to be preparing for your marriage; now that you're socially connected, you've begun your tenure as a Unit, and you're expected to act like it. It would be strange for Vince or Millie to go to a ball with someone else unless that partner was a relative or (possibly) a close family friend. It would... imply something.

Marriage between a man and woman would be expected, not because purebloods on the whole are traditionalist — which, to be clear, they are — but because the emphasis on bloodlines means children are a priority. Pansy gives us the best précis on this in Book 2. Blaise, being gay, is in an interesting place vis-a-vis the marriage question because his position doesn't come from being heir to an old estate, it's from his mother's money; in that respect, he's not bound by usual expectations of hereditary legacies, which is possibly why he's comfortable being out. (Although there's a blink-and-you-miss-it remark about some tension with his mom in "Miseducation.")

[dollypopup]

y'all can all cancel me (again) for this, but if there's even a SHRED of 'who should I pick?' from Penelope in season 3, I am tuning out SO fast because like. . .sorry not sorry, there IS no choice. Debling is some crusty OC suitor she barely even knows and Colin is a man who she has been so supposedly in love with to the point where she'd ruin her entire family's reputation to have a potential love story with him. Penelope and Colin have background, years of knowing each other, intimacy that few people in the Ton can boast of having (letters, conversations about purpose, fights and arguments and makeups) and her and Debling have. . .a dance or two at a ball because he's a rebound for Penelope's broken heart. he means nothing. he has no nuance, he has no weight to the story, he is such an afterthought to me. either I wanna see Penelope going 'you know what? I don't even LIKE this dude. he's. . .fine, but I don't care about him even a shred as much as I care about Colin' or the INSTANT Colin's like 'you know what? we should get married' if it's not an immediate 'say less, you're already my husband, try returning me without the receipt, Debling whomst?' then I don't want it!

like. . .it's just so frustrating to see all the 'I hope Debling sweeps her off her feet and she rejects Colin's proposal and she makes him work for it and and and-' nonsense from the fandom and it's always tagged and no matter how many times I block it, it just keeps popping up. I go into the Polin tag for POLIN. I don't give a SHIT about a male love interest other than Colin. Not one. Not a shred. Not an iota.

and also. . .Debling has the 'benefit' of not having depth, or character traits, or HISTORY, so peeps can project onto him however they want, but I'm calling it now, there is NOTHING he could do or be that would make me like him more than Colin. Colin will always hit different, and I will always love him more. and if Pen's not on that same page? lol bye

you want me to believe Penelope and Colin are soulmates and it's romance for her to hem and haw about how difficult a decision it is for her to marry a stranger who knows barely anything about her. . .

when Marina was out here dropping banger lines like 'You were the only man with which I could see myself being happy' and 'I do not care about any of these men, where is Colin?'? like hello??? and she wasn't even fully in love with him!!!! but we'll demonize her until the cows come home in our fandom and make her the villain in Polin's love story for DARING to get in between Polin, yet Debling, a white man, is a darling dear perfect prince for getting in between Polin? existing in our fandom solely so Penelope can be like 'lol, Colin ain't shit, let me entertain any and everyone else'?

if that's the direction it goes then, ten toes down and on my mama, she doesn't deserve Colin and she can move because I'm on my way to court him my damn self

and that's that on that

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

god tywin lannister deserved worse

just remembering elias death and i wanna puke and the way tywin talks about elia and what happened is so damn gross

but rip tommen and myrcella we all know what’s about to happen in the next book :/

the cycle of violence just keeps spinning and damn you tywin for beginning it

(i got a bit crazy in the tags 💀)

[merrysithmas]

lol i literally couldnt care less about fandom drama but i will i say i saw an entitled cishet say "NO ONE BETTER START SAYING MIZU IS they/them!!" and if you cannot consider Mizu, an outwardly gendernonconforming character who shows a distaste towards 'feminine' dress/makeup/roles and penis-in-vagina sex as potentially nonbinary, trans, or otherwise ... then like who is ok for the trans fans out here to imagine as trans??? like who will you give us permission for, Your CisMajesty?

lmao kiss our collective trans azz tbh

[fitzrove]

Not only have several of my former classmates gotten married, just found out that now one is having a kid?? 😭😭 just reiterating: i cant believe some people my age are doing that dklsldls. Where do they find time to work/study AND develop intricate crown prince rudolf headcanons once they do that