#clone theory

[muzetrigger]

do you subscribe to the "will remembers everything his copies experience" theory??

I think it's too early to say whether or not Will remembers what his clones do, or if his clones remember what he does after they split.

That being said! I personally don't think it would be very satisfying if he does. A lot of the tension in that Willtressor moment is predicated on Will really believing that he will die. If he had memories from clones or vice-versa there wouldn't have the same kind of pressure to act.

[sweetstwawbewwymilk]

MATTERS OF TIME (BETA)

This was supposed to be a comic and Way more polished but the looming threat of Canon is getting closer with each passing day. So, here's my Phoenix's canon, and an explanation for the ominous hints i keep dropping.

TW for period-accurate vocabulary for LGBTQ+ identities

Enjoy!

Prism thumbed her teacup as she finished the story. Reginald, across from her, could only sit with his mouth agape. In the very next room, Agent Phoenix was sleeping soundly, exhausted from the events of the past three months, and ignorant to the information Reginald was now struggling to comprehend. 

“And… that's the whole truth.” Roxana finished. “I… I never told anyone else that.” 

“Never? Not… I mean- But, but- but… Roxana I…” 

Reginald set down his teacup and rubbed his eyes. “This is… so much to process. You've really never gone back?” 

“Never. As far as I know the Toledo lab is untouched. I want nothing to do with anything still in it.” 

“Right. Right…” Reginald rubbed his arms. “...Never told anyone? Not even Phoenix?”

“Oh yeah, great idea!” Roxana snipped, stress coloring her voice as she rose to a faux sweet tone. “HeeEEEEey, Phoenix! Sorry for trying to kill you, thanks for saving my life, hope your head doesn't hurt too bad from saving the world and nearly dying again, YOU’RE A CLONE BY THE WAY.” 

Reginald winced. “Yes, I… suppose now is not a good time…” 

He sighed, then looked at the picture Roxana showed him of the… well, the “donor.” He nearly dropped his teacup the first time he saw them. Mx. Blanc, inheritor of a small fortune. Youthful yet confident, standing upright in a crisp, white suit. 

A blaze of red hair cascading down their back, an amber eye so bright it shone like gold, even, coincidentally, a nasty scar down their right eye, covered with an eyepatch. 

They truly were Phoenix's mirror image. 

Reginald ran a hand down his face, as Roxana also looked at the old photo. She still remembered when they approached her, after being introduced through Valeri. Blanc approached her with a fear she could relate to all too well: passing on, and leaving nothing behind. They wanted to have a child of their own, to carry on their legacy when they were gone, but due to their specific blend of hermaphroditism, they never could. 

All she asked for back then was a sample of their DNA and three weeks. 

The cloning tank impressed Blanc, but they were even more impressed with the tiny human inside; their perfect genetic copy… and, in essence, their child.

Blanc and Roxana spent as much time as they could around the small clone. Roxana conducted a lot of her early research in the Toledo lab, keeping an eye on the tank and the clone.

And then…

Roxana blinked back tears as she recalled that horrible end to the year. Zoraxis’s first attack on the Agency. Blanc’s murder. The Operatives surrounding her lab, her smashing the tank, running through the cold with an artificial child in her arms, finding the Orphanage… 

Reginald rested a hand on her shoulder, snapping Roxana from her spiral with tears in her eyes. He invited her to sit next to him on the couch, which she gladly accepted. Roxana and Reginald leaned into each other, just stewing in the memories, and in the new information, with Blanc in front of them.

“I guess… that’s part of why I was so upset when Phoenix got so popular. It’s like… what Blanc was so afraid of came true. They got forgotten. And I helped write over their legacy.”

She rubbed her eye against her shoulder as she sank deeper into Reginald. He wrapped an arm around her, pulling her unto a half-hug. 

“...For what it's worth,” Reginald began, “I think Mx. Blanc would be rather happy to know their clone became Agent Phoenix.” He chuckled. “I know that if I had a child, I would be proud to see them become someone like Phoenix.”

Roxana smiled sadly. Her mind went back to her robots, emulating her greatest creation, even through their quirks. She reached up and squeezed Reginald's hand. 

“Yeah… I'm… I'm proud of them.” 

She looked back at Blanc's photo. 

“And… I'm sure they're looking down, and they're proud of them too.” 

******

Dr. Zor's fingers drummed against their armrest as they watched the security footage. The gleaming golden eye that wasn't scarred over narrowed through long, graying red hair. 

Of course Roxana would have swooped in to save her creation. A clever little thing, they were. Three plots, each with years of planning and thousands of dollars poured into them, washed away like sidewalk chalk in a thunderstorm. 

They wondered to themselves, long ago, what would pay higher dividends. Killing their wayward failure and starting over… or testing them. Bending them. 

Breaking them. 

Putting them through trial after trial, experiment after experiment, all to see if they had found their heir. Their immortality. 

Well, they figured, all the way back then. It was a win-win. 

If the Phoenix died, they took their dirty little secret with them. If they lived, they'd be running right back to them, and they'd get another chance at breaking the bird. 

And they would break them. Body, mind, or soul, they'd break them. 

It was only a matter of time. 

[ma-tsu-the-male-goddess]

Tbh until we watched the last episode or two, my sister and I were convinced they were gonna pull a clone theory to bring back Brooklyn.

There were just too many weird comments and hints, and i remembered out of the blue that clones were an actual thing in the Jurassic World movies.

If anyone wants to see the actual evidence we’d pulled I might put it together later.

[blueskyheadleft010]

I’m vibrating in excitement for the next episode of Murder Drones. But if the show has taught me one thing it’s that you don’t overlook things mentioned or shown in the prev episodes.

So… that thing J mentioned about ‘effective drones were cloned more’??

Uh…. Anyone wanna bet that Nori and Yeva have backups inside the secret lab??? Will Uzi have a backup??? IS TESSA A CLONE OF THE ORIGINAL TESSA???

[mummelthecryptid]

"maybe he did like mitosis"

[synthibear]

woa!! 2 AM synthipost!! (it will happen again)

anyways I can't sleep and it's a school night so I think it's a good time to ramble about an AU me and my friend have together!! (and I really want to start posting about because they're silly!!!!)

we're talking CUSTOM!AU BABYYYY

[Edit by yours truly, Tom's design belongs to EZM !!]

[Edd and Matt design also belongs to yours truly!]

Custom!AU was co-created by me and my (platonic) husband EZM !! (check them out on YT, they make cool content!!), starting out as a simple silly roleplay over in the Eddsworld RP game on ROBLOX! I was.. Definitely not expecting it to turn into a full fledged AU with lore, but here we are!

The AU revolves around two things! One being Clone Theory and the other being the Multiverse! Their main issue at the moment is the clones, who have definitely screwed their lives over a bunch..

Currently in lore, Red Leader (Clord) has begun his attempt to take over the UK, having already taken over a few surrounding countries such as Norway, Sweden, Finland and (I think) France. Not fun at all!

I'll definitely talk more about it later, but I feel like this is enough for now!! :3

[chiis-archive]

My Opinion on TF2 OG Mercs (Clone Theory)

Feel free to disagree and give reasons as to why my suggestions may be incorrect!! I love learning! :D I have been into TF2 since I was a wee lad, but I am not fully fleshed out on all of its lore. I have also taken the time to input page/video sources to further back up my claims.

Please note that these are just my ideas on something that does not entirely matter. I desire to know the OG mercs out of sheer curiosity regarding the relationship between Spy and Scout, Sniper and his parents, etc. I also wanted to know who the OGs were based on MvM & who was from what team but wearing RED uniforms.

Thank you, & please enjoy!

OG TF2 Mercs:

RED Spy - Unknown. Definitely not Tom Jones. Please stop with the Tom Jones thing.

(RED - Meet the Spy video)

(RED - A Cold Day in Hell, seen with RED clothed Scout's mother.)

(Unlikely) BLU Scout - Jeremy

Jerma985 - Confirmed by Valve News Network interview.

(BLU - Meet the Spy video)

RED Scout - Jeremy

Jerma985 - Confirmed by Valve News Network interview.

(RED - Meets up with Heavy in A Cold Day in Hell comic. Same Scout from Unhappy Returns)

(RED - Unhappy Returns comic shows Scout talking about his mother and RED Spy being proud, then disappointed, in him.)

(RED - RED Spy & RED clothed mother shown with baby scout.)

(RED - RED Spy holds him as he dies - RED Spy pretends to be Scout's dream father as he dies, allowing himself the ability to be his father as his son dies.)

BLU Engie - Dell Conagher

Son of TFC Fred Conagher Engie

Shown in A Cold Day in Hell comic - fat w/ robo legs but alive.

Grandfather is Radigan Conagher.

(BLU - Contracted in (Loose Canon) comic to keep Mann bros alive.)

(BLU - Blood in the Water comic shows him helping Helen.)

BLU Soldier - Mr. Jane Doe/Arthur Blackburn

Jane Doe used instead of John Doe to get enlisted, even if he wasn't enlisted.

"CALL BLACKBURN 1-03113" listed in "Grave Matters" comic - Arthur Blackburn was an IRL (Australian) soldier in WWI & WWII & was a lawyer. Likely the theoretical same person/my headcanon my rules.

(BLU - WAR! comic)

RED Demoman - Tavish Finnegan DeGroot

(RED - WAR! comic)

(RED - Bombinomicon comic - wearing RED outfit as child & retelling story from childhood.)

(RED - Ring of Fired comic; goes home to mother. Demo is not excited when seeing RED Soldier; thus, they are not friends.)

RED Medic - Ludwig Humboldt

Humboldt was from Rottenburg (or maybe Stuttgart, where he ran "Humboldt's Pharmacy. " He was run out of Rottenburg for swapping too many baboon hearts.

Satan refers to Medic as "Mr. Ludwig," possibly his last name.

(RED - The Naked and the Dead comic, Medic momentarily dies and is sent to hell, where Satan interacts with him by name. This shows Medic 100% dying and 100% going to hell, then being brought back; thus, this 100% is the real OG Medic. He's also still wearing RED Med uniform.)

RED Sniper - Mun-dee (Mr. Mundy)

His first name is likely Mun-dee, as shown by the naming style from New Zealand (parents "Bill-Bel" & "Lar-Nah"). Possibly given the first name "Mick"/" Rick" from Australian parents? Unsure.

(RED - Meet the Director comic & Meet the Sniper video; allows outgoing contact w/ parents, thus real.)

(RED - Ring of Fired comic, Sniper is in Australia to find parents.)

(RED - Blood in the Water, shown in Australia in parent's house. Meets bio parents (Bill-Bel & Lar-Nah) in New Zealand.)

(RED - Old Wounds comic, meets parents in heaven. Although it was likely a hallucination from blue whale pineal gland brain stem injection.)

(Unlikely) BLU Heavy - Mikhail (Misha)

(BLU - The Shadow Boxers comic)

RED Heavy - Mikhail (Misha)

(RED - A Cold Day in Hell comic; most likely the OG Heavy due to interactions with family to return to.)

(Unhappy Returns comic; right before A Cold Day in Hell.)

RED Pyro - Likely Unknown/"Beatrice (TFC name)/'Bea' Arthur"

(RED - Ring of Fired -> Unhappy Returns -> A Cold Day in Hell comics.)

(Female - Besides literally everything pointing towards a female Pyro, along with TFC Pyro being female, the TF comic creator of A Cold Day in Hell jokes/hints that Pyro is female and still menstruating, with Soldier talking about honey and menstruating women attracting bears before saying he "always knew" and yells "PYRO" while pointing at Pyro. He then goes on to tell Pyro to move.)

(BLU TFC Pyro shown "Beatrice"; thus, it may not be Pyro's name. Dunno.)

[dysfunctionalcreature]

omg I've thought about this so much! in my opinion the Jacobi that we have by the finale, the one that survived, is definitely the clone Jacobi! because I just can't imagine him getting out of that explosion otherwise, like he locked himself in that room with Riemann and then set up a bunch of explosives under the floor to blow up the entire engine directly underneath their feet! it's basically exactly the same way that he killed Hilbert (it's actually fascinating to me how similar it is, considering one explosion was fatal and the other apparently wasn't). not to mention Minkowski seemed so genuinely shocked that Jacobi survived. plus his whole "I'm just really good at jumping out of the way of explosions :) in a confined space in zero gravity" just sounds really fake to me, like either he knows the truth that he's the clone and he's just lying to everyone, or he's in denial about why he survived and so he's lying to himself and the others

wait a minute. hold on a second. so idk how ive never considered this but if in the finale when jacobi set off that bomb. do we think he was okay with dying if he was human. do we think he considered that he could be the clone in that moment, that he could be perfectly safe or putting himself at risk of death, and ultimately didn’t care either way. do we think maybe he was caught in the blast and came back, and just lied about jumping out of the way because it was easier than explaining that he was actually the clone all along, or even accepting it for himself. do we think maybe even he doesn’t know what really happened. hold on. old hon a second

[sweetstwawbewwymilk]

Rewriting my Phoenix's backstory a little bit so just know that Matters of Time is now consitered a Beta

Clone theory is still true though

[ninjasmudge]

everybodys a critic...

[idkacatmonstermaybe]

now i’m picturing depressed shower men only have two moods a1 being furiously humped by lapdog men only have two moods a2

a1/a2

[muchanmocha]

We need to talk about this

What you need to know about this scene:

The outcome of this room was not what he wanted or expected — the close-up depicts sweating, dismayed expression, confusion

Luka intentionally came into this room with a knife — early production image on Patreon of him with a knife-shaped object likely walking here

Luka is the culprit — his arms are elbow-high in blood

Luka pulled a lever to sound the alarm and the segyein came running — as shown in frame order, the light of the alarm is flashing throughout this sequence

His close-up focuses on his inability to cry but his desire to do so — his sweatdrop follows the same path and drawn the same way as the tears during Hyuna's final scene. The illusion of crying is further enforced by the streak of blood running from his eye to the sweatdrop

It is a very human part of Luka that "cries" — The blood running from his eye to the sweatdrop is red not green

Additional context:

Luka's fellow clones seem to have been treated as disposable tools by the segyein on his behalf — in the first image the segyein performed surgeries on them to ensure the Luka's success rate will be higher when he goes through the "real thing"

Luka's drawing of paradise include only him, Hyuna, Hyun Woo, and his fellow clones — he and his fellow clones are faceless presumably because he hates his face -> He hates what he and they all are, but he doesn't hate the clones themselves

Putting everything together:

Luka shared a form of comraderie with his fellow clones. Knowing the fates they will be subjected to as essentially lab rats for his sake, he tried to free them by cutting them out of the pods. However they weren't able to survive and his naive rescue attempt ended with a floor of corpses.

Far from his intention of saving them, Luka became the culprit who ended their lives early with his own two hands. His expression shows the horror he feels from the price of his careless actions laid out in front of him. Literally.

He pulls the lever to sound the alarm that would summon the segyein.

It is simultaneously a sign of him giving up once and for all, and possibly a last ditch attempt to save the clones by alerting the segyein to the crisis he had caused.

At this point he does not care about Heperu finding out about what he had done, or the punishments that will undoubtedly follow.

-

This scene is so important because it's the root of his character's tragedy. The source of it all, which then impacted everything that followed, becaming the source of Hyun Woo's and Hyuna's tragedies too.

This is the one and only time we've ever seen Luka's horrified face up until then.

This is the moment that showed him the futility of his actions and broke his will.

[local-cryptid]

i actually started this a couple weeks ago but with the latest episodes i felt the need to finish it

[oblique-lane]

"RED and BLU mercs look the same because of the game mechanic! They represent different people while using the same models! YOU are the player, so YOU are the mercenary too!"

Fair, but. Even if it is just a game limitation... I can't help but be confused as to WHY those game characters are SO UNIQUE IN PERSONALITIES if they are meant to be a representative mass?

I have to questions to hl1 scientist. No question no hl2 citizens. To CS characters. They are plain and faceless, they are meant to be background masses.

Tf2 mercs, however? SO unique and distinct. Their shapes and bodies, their movements, their voicelines - even with no particular story about them, there's SO MUCH personality! They have to be heroes! Not JUST classes!

I've never understood the explanation "they are different people who look similar to eachother" because eeehh... Have fun as you want, but I'm personally not convinced. Even with a rhetoric "Heavies have to be strong af and scouts have to be fast and small and all medics are insane and Germans" that's still not it.

Obviously I don't think about it while playing the game, but when it's time to think about the lore... The comics never answered the question of who the teams are - retconed and ignored.

I was surprised and confused as to why it was never brought up anywhere in canon. Maybe because this case is so exceptional and unique to tf2, it was actually cursed by it's own greatness?

Let's be real, tf2 characters are heroes. Yet unlike Overwatch and such, players ARE allowed to have as many repeating classes as they want. Moreso - the opposite team is designed to be the same characters.

What the fuck.

Tf2 mercs exist in a superposition where they are more than just classes but not enough humans to be heroes.

And that brings us to my other point...

Now you might say "but the lore is goofy, they WOULD hire people with very specific features –" shhhhh. Don't you see? That's part of the issue.

The mercs are constantly dehumanized.

For whatever reason people think is useful. In the comics they are shown to be absolute idiots for comedic effect, sometimes flanderizing them even, reducing any human feature that isn't funny enough.

In fandom it's enough to just dress a merc in different clothes for people to start calling them OCs. Even if you didn't mean to make an oc.

With the goddamn clone theory I've seen people often saying that since BLU are clones, they are subhuman/unworthy - authors thoughts, not just in-univrse rhetoric.

It's almost as... Tf2 mercs are not human but a species??? Creatures without autonomy?

Always been like this?

Maybe I'm the only one bothered by this, but... You know me, I'm a no fun who loves taking this kind of shit seriously.

...

I started from talking about why they look identical on different teams. I think the clone theory is very probable, even though many people say it's cringe. The clone theory would make so much sense if it was real.

Recently I've watched Mickey 17. It felt so good to be finally understood. Every point of this film is all the things I feel towards tf2.

Respawn makes you less human. And corporations treat you as expendable, always. If they find a way to dehumanize you, it will be easier to convince everyone that you deserve violence/it's not a big deal.

If in tf2 the two identical megacorps fight with eachother over power (tf2 wiki/ original game setting), it would make all the sense for them to just clone the 9 mercs and make them expendable. It's cheaper. Emesis Blue did it right.

And since everyone thinks that the mercs are subhuman, because they are stereotypes, because stupid illiterate criminals, because they're psychopaths, because they're clones, because they're expendable... No one ever thinks to look behind it and see them as people.

Cloning is inherently a horror. When I just entered the fandom, I was convinced there will be some horror level lore underneath the silly game. It made sense.

But there was none of it.

I might be the one stupid here for thinking about tf2 that way. But I can't change my perspective now. To me the whole tf2 lore situation is just a recursive mirror on itself: the whole thing almost begs to be analyzed existentially but isn't because the goofy part of it is so sacred, it cannot be destroyed. As if taking tf2 seriously is almost a taboo.

"Don't look there, there's nothing there, don't think about it, they're silly, it's just a game" then why do I keep seeing holes on this curtain???

Purposefully not thinking about the lore is constant effort. It cannot be truly silly at least because it's war. If there's no respawn, it's scary because they can die anytime. If there is respawn - it's triple scary, because they don't belong to themselves.

In-game voicelines suggest that respawn does exist. Even if they love fighting and treat it like we treat videogames - since they are practically immortal - it's still inherently horror. Even if it's a comedy, ignoring the basic technical aspects of the world and covering up with "everything is unserious and stupid" agenda... Is ironically suspicious. For me.

It's almost as if they're trying to hide something underneath all this silliness. I know they don't. But it feels like it. It feels like a propaganda so people don't dare to try explaining how this world logically works.

A second you try to dissect the lore and it crumbles apart. It contradicts itself and it overcompensates for what it's not. It crumbles. I've stumbled upon it a hundred times for all these years in the fandom...

When you play the game you see so much environmental storytelling - the coverups of spy tech, the cold war, nukes and stuff... The early wiki info told us about megacorps who want to rule the world. It's realistic and pragmatic and so fun. Close to earth. When I play on the older maps I keep wondering what it was really about. I wonder about who the characters are, how did they get on this war?

But what I got was "the mercs are very stupid, and everything in this world is stupid because old people fight over nothing, and once they die everyone lives happily ever after AFTER SACRIFICING NOTHING". The mercs aren't even the main characters. We still know fucking nothing about them, about why they fight– they don't even fight for the same thing as in game. Everything is retconed.

I feel so conflicted. I know people love the comics but I can't help but hate it, I'm sorry. The same questions I had joining the fandom almost 2 years ago - I still have them now. It's itching, it's uncomfortable to stand in a lore which is a mess and will never be explained.

I looked at the lore with a suspicious squint, trying to compromise: maybe there IS something about the worldbuilding that I've missed that would make sense. I've analysed left and right– no. There's nothing of my interest. I had to explain things myself and it only started make sense once I stopped relying on the comics, like, at all.

And once you strip away the comics, there's barely anything left. Just the game, the bits and crumbs from the wiki...

The tf2 I enjoy now is the tf2 50% of which I created in my head to overcompensate. But who am I? I'm not Valve. I'm uncomfortable with that. Because while the lore now makes sense in my head, it's still just headcanons.

People don't know it.

I feel pretty lonely in this situation.

(This post should've been be just about dehumanization in the context of tf2, but I've noticed that everything I hurt about this media is a one big thing and one doesn't go without another. Someday I will let go.)

[27drsnoopsnucks]

Holy fucking shit I am utterly loving this concept and the designs, I've always liked the idea of Matt (usually the classic versions) being evil, not just TW Matt but things such as this, I love the ieda and fact that people realize Matt wasn't always a "cute and dumb innocent cinnamon roll" i mean, cmon, he literally tried, AND EVEN SUCCESFULLY killed the main four at one point, definitely would have had lots of potential if his memory hadn't been completely and utterly wiped (may still have potential in any upcoming Eddisodes but we'll just have to wait and see...) ANYHOWWW, ENOUGH OF MY RANT HGAHSAHZAHAQW, in short words, I fucking love the idea of evil matt and this fills me with joy (as well as loving the tord clone <33)

yknow that blue matt clone from taht one eddsworld clone episode yknow the one the one with the clones?

yeh-

Oh and he's got a little tord clone assistant to help with his silly plans-

His name is Rune :)

[verycorrect-tbbquotes]

Echo: When I first met you, I did not like you.

Crosshair: I'm aware of that.

Echo: But then you and I had some time together.

Crosshair: Uh-huh.

Echo: It did not get better.