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mewtwo24 · 4 months

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I can't stop thinking about the revelation of Luo Binghe's heavenly demonic heritage and how striking the differences are in SVSSS vs PIDW.

In terms of the original, how Shen Jiu's violence was unexpected but numbing after a point. How Luo Bingge's awakening would be a means to freedom; that while he might be reviled by human immortals, at least he no longer had any reason to give a damn what they thought. Demonic cultivation would exact the wrongs that had been acted on him tenfold in cold blood, to repay youthful admiration and blind trust with all the cruelty unleashed on him indiscriminately. How easy it was for Luo Bingge to choose power and performance because he had little if nothing else of substance to turn to.

For Luo Bingge, otherness is an easy second skin because he's never once belonged in the first place. Sneering is natural when the entire world has done nothing but badmouth, ridicule, hit, and condemn you for things that were never within your control. “What does it matter that you're a monster now?” Luo Bingge seems to think, “You were and will be a monster always.” Every facade, every ill-intended act of deception and violence is merely injustice reaping its due.

Luo Binghe (Bingmei) has no such liberties.

For Luo Binghe, the trappings of comfort and belonging end up yielding an entirely new problem, a reversal of Luo Bingge’s non-conundrum. His fear is that Shen Qingqiu’s love might be conditional rather than a despair that it is non-existent, because in many respects it is for the surrounding immortals; they go from calling Binghe a promising and shining youth to a demonic scourge born to invite ruin in the span of a handful of years. Shen Qingqiu, caught between what he wants to do versus what he believes he must do and his own fears, sours Luo Binghe’s trust to quivering doubt. What Bingge desperately craved was precisely what put Binghe through such unrelenting turmoil. Where difference and change is freedom for Luo Bingge, it is a chilling and unwelcome prospect for Luo Binghe.

For Luo Binghe, the thought that he could be something monstrous to the person he loves is a form of self-annihilation; so much of his desperation to appear non-threatening to Shen Qingqiu is rooted in this self-same anxiety. In the wake of Meng Mo’s intervention, Luo Binghe cannot even bring himself to ask “What does it matter that you’re a monster now?” He can only cling to the desperate belief that if he can just conceal what he is for long enough, the future he always dreamed of might still be within his reach: an eternal life of peace by Shen Qingqiu’s side.

For Luo Binghe, the rejection of his humanity means rejecting the people who nurtured him wholeheartedly (the washerwoman, transmigrated Shen Qingqiu) with love and kindness. Even despite the confusion behind Shen Qingqiu’s change, even despite how enigmatic and reticent he can often still be, Binghe recognizes powerful instances of tenderness and care in his actions. Someone who stubbornly healed his wounds, who was unable to watch him be brutally bullied without due recourse, someone who trusted in him and his potential with his whole heart.

For Luo Binghe, power and demonic strength mean absolutely nothing because he has love. He doesn’t want them, and even when he does have them they are used in service of protecting Shen Qingqiu. Xin Mo isn’t able to take over because Luo Binghe isn’t strong enough to resist its temptations to subjugate the world, it happens because he exhausts so much energy trying to preserve Shen Qingqiu’s life that his resistance fractures. And even when Xin Mo succeeds in warping Binghe’s mind, the end result is still in service to a desire to be close to Shen Qingqiu’s heart. In the end, he continues to seek love.

Where the inexorable tides of change become opportunity (arguably even a boon) for Luo Bingge, for Luo Binghe this change is the focal point of his calamitous loss. How Luo Bingge's ascension is a ruthless and seamless transformation--all of his experiences hardening him into something harsh and brutal and unyielding to survive. How Luo Binghe's is instead a fall from grace; the corruption of innocence and stolen youth--of dreams razed to ash and safety obliterated.

And after all, doesn't it hurt so much more to have known peace and thrash that it will forever be out of your grasp? ...Than to live in such tumultuous waters that gentleness is an alien, loathsome, and unfathomable thing. For the former, a feeling of safety may never be restored--always looking back before looking forward. For the latter, there is nothing but the grim and solitary march on, eyes shuttered to all else.

I feel like that's why I love the ending of the third novel, as disturbing as it may appear to a lot of readers. Shen Qinqiu expresses his disbelief and hurt that Luo Binghe would lie to him and choose so much destruction, but for Luo Binghe it all has a singular source. Without love, he has nothing. He cannot choose a life devoid of the person he loves.

(I once read a fic where Luo Binghe says ‘I never wanted to be a demon’ to Shen Qingqiu and I think it metaphysically changed me as a person. Every single day I think about it and try not to bawl my eyes out. Anyways.)

#svsss #scum villain's self saving system #luo binghe #shen qingqiu #bingqiu #luo bingge #there's a much longer analysis post i'm plotting regarding bingqiu and sqq specifically but god #this shit? this guts me every single time i read fanfic or reread the original text #pretty much this and tianxi is a direct hit to the gut for me #i will never be over how relentless mxtx is about the importance of kindness/compassion #how even a single person's acknowledgement of our deepest vulnerability is enough to change us irrevocably #how that is a foundational aspect of what it means to be a person in the world. the most animating force #mxtx is such a real one i'm sorry i just adore her work

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bluffmotel · 10 days

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I always LOVE your character analysis', so random question!!! Would you indulge me about your thoughts on the Romeros (both paul and dante)? You can be as vague or as detailed as you want!

oh i absolutely love this question, thank you! and the timing was rather perfect, given the release of the black book, so it’s safe to say these two ( and more specifically dante ) have been haunting around the depths of my mind … and while i’m a vince & tyler fan first and foremost, i do have thoughts on everyone else and the general story! so without further ado, let’s talk about the romeros :

while as dusk falls is about two respective families ( the holts & the walkers, as we come to find out pretty quick ) i think it’s irrefutable to deny that paul and dante are tangled inside this little web themselves! they’re two figures that help bring the past and present together : paul recognizes jim, although not well, but more importantly if vince allows his father to leave for the hospital, he makes a rather pointed comment about not letting dante see or recognize him. jim also seems rather interested when asking our protagonist, “so you met the sheriff? what’s he like?” before doubling down rather hard on not trusting the law, and this opinion of dante is so intense that ( depending on dialogue choices ) if vince sides with the holts over dante, jim can potentially agree with his choice, in a way he won’t with dante. and given paul’s entanglement with sharon for decades and his bond with bear? these two are in the frying pan right there alongside our leading families! it’s rather easy to dismiss their importance, i think, but give the two enough thought and them being there while the desert dream goes down, as passive and aggressive forces respectively, really feels fated. of course it’s dante the holt boys stole from, and of course it’s paul’s place of work the walkers stumble upon, and of course it all comes to a head and leaves us with one of our final choices in book one : which of these devils are you trusting? dante or the holts? i like to imagine this echoes whatever went down all those years ago with jim, or at least serves as a continuation of whatever he refused to finish.

but that’s getting a little more into general game territory & it’s themes, so back to my thoughts on the romeros specifically, which can be summed up as … i love them! dante in particular grew on me a lot throughout the constant replays, even though i always adored his character! and paul was fantastic in his background role, casually revealing the more heavy hand he had in things ( which you don’t expect! ) with throwaway lines and oddly loaded advice. paul’s a good man, and if it’s not obvious by how protective joyce is of him, then it’s proven tenfold when he either tends to an injured vince at the very end of book one, or tries giving cpr to his dead body if tyler drowns him. like?? what a sweetheart! there’s nothing to hate about paul, but he’s a great example of a character who’s more than what he seems without taking away from the main narrative, another role joyce serves right along with him. these two did their thing as ‘random’ people in the desert dream and the devs took great care to lay out some good groundwork for them in spite of their non importance. and, in general, they act as good voices for vince to consider when it comes to the final choice! joyce trusts dante, talks about him with respect and all of her slightly biting remarks are full of affection ( sentiments that mean a lot coming from her, someone who’s shown herself to be stubborn and no nonsense ), but on the other side, paul warns vince against dante, lamenting on their family’s low opinions of him and his position as sheriff ( an important opinion because paul is dante’s family ), and so on so forth. paul and joyce balance each other well, and i always make sure paul gets his pizza. he has low blood sugar, dale! give him some food, god damn it!

and to talk more about dante, he’s an excellent character in a gaming world full of pathetic villains or straight up irredeemable monsters. the ceo of interior night has been very vocal about making sure nobody in as dusk falls felt like anything less than a human being, and dante ( as well as bear, i’d say ) proves she mostly succeeded … in the case of book one, anyway. it’s very easy to villainze him in the moment and even away from the game if you only give him a passing glance : he’s ruthless, he threatens vince, someone who could’ve been nothing but obedient this whole time, and his abuse of his badge is supposed to be as revolting as it feels. but! he perfectly encapsulates one of the main themes in this game, which is that he doesn’t want to do this, but he feels like he has to. dante is looking at what is clearly multiple crossroads and just like the holts he only sees one path forward, which just happens to be the most violent one. it’s the path where he survives and he is safe, unscathed, and he can return to what his normal is. i’ve been meaning to make a big web weave about adf and this theme in particular but to perfectly sum it up, here’s a quote that feels like it was almost made for this game :

hansel, by richard siken.

like! this is what adf is about! dante may be one of the more awful parties, yes, but he is still just a man who truly believes in his little black heart that this route is what’s best for him -- and so he’s gotta take it. it’s rather easy to not notice his humanity in the midst of this high stakes situation ( and because his counterpart is paul, of all people ), but it is there, and this is exactly why i enjoy seeing him on my screen and would love to do more with him himself someday! dante, in particular, cares about the holts … and i mean the holt boys, not just sharon. despite his spiraling mental state and the time limit he’s under, the sheriff exercises a rather immense amount of patience when it comes to the holts, like, it’s rather obvious he didn’t want them coming to harm in the way that they did. when dale comes out for the iconic sniper scene, dante attempts bargaining with him after his initial instinct to annoy and pry -- and it’s clear that he wants dale to just hand him the book, and he wants dale to surrender and give dante what he needs so everyone can make it out alive, at least. in his moment of blind need, he fails to actually notice that dale’s confusion and fear is genuine, mistakes it as dale’s usual playing around, and goes “have it your way,” before signaling his sniper. he could’ve just shot dale the second he stepped out of the door, and then looted his corpse for the book, or whatever else. but no. he takes the slightly longer way, for as long as he can, and since dante believes himself to be above the law, who is he holding back for? it’s for the holt boys, kids he probably saw grow up! and it’s for sharon. and it’s for joyce, and paul, and maybe even vince and his family, at first. dante becomes colder as the night drones on but given his immense power trip, it’s clear he had no real qualms ending things with police brutality, even at the beginning. makes his attempts at trying to end things peacefully at the start of book one a lot more interesting, in my opinion, because we quickly find out this was dante’s way of showing everyone mercy. which is scary! but again, showcases he’s more than some villain.

and his face after killing dale, if you choose not to save him, also doesn’t scream that this is someone who’s particularly enjoying this. the expressions made between the shot firing and dante looking at the kid’s body bag corpse is … grim.

like, this is not a victorious look at all! the way he just watches as dale’s body is picked up and taken away, expression never changing … he probably feels numb, this sense of : i did what i had to. but he doesn’t like it, and maybe it’d be easier if he did, and maybe he wants it that way too, you know?

i also find this scenario particularly tragic because i believe dale was probably dante’s token favorite out of the holt boys, at least before their falling out. it’s just bizarre to me the amount of hatred dale holds for him in a rather pointed manner -- it just feels personal, and it wouldn’t be personal if dale never cared for two rock’s biggest pig to begin with. how i think the juvie thing went down, in simple terms, is this : dante, who was still a close friend of sharon’s at the time and enjoyed visiting & hanging around the house here and there, someone who saw the first two holt boys through their infancy with paul, got a call about dale ( who had pushed past his usual amateur crimes to commit literal assault ), and had no choice but to actually act this time. he had probably let dale off the hook beforehand, covered up his petty theft and underage drinking and what have you, and this fostered some unhealthy opinions about dante and his generosity, so when dale landed himself in genuine hot water, hot water that even the sheriff himself couldn’t cool down, he couldn’t do anything except give him juvie. WHICH! i like to believe dale committed this crime as an eighteen year old, which could’ve landed him in jail i’m sure since his actions were so severe. so dante didn’t leave dale hanging, technically, but him not letting him off with a slap on the wrist like the holts expected ( like dale thought he would ) fostered a hatred and finally cut dante & sharon apart for good. dale’s loathed dante ever since for his betrayal and dante responds with equal amounts of vitriol back. but his fondness and favoritism remains and shows itself in tiny ways even still, like his almost palpable disappointment that dale came out of that motel instead of tyler, for example. he was like damn, i was prepared to shoot tyler, not dale … :( and i think this is so fucking funny!

( i will say that after reading the black book, none of the above paragraph is canon anymore technically. but i don’t really care at this point because what they did do with dante and dale’s assault was so baffling and borderline stupid! so, like i said when i first got it, i’m viewing the book with the same mindset one would consider a writer’s tweets of ‘canon’ facts about their favorite book on twitter … meaning i can just pick and choose what i like and dislike. there is nothing in game that contradicts the above headcanon, so it’s still canon compliant to me -- anyway! just had to add that little note, just in case )

and this goes straight into headcanon territory, but personally? dante’s the one who got dale a tombstone made, the one we see at the very end of book two. it’s certainly not bear who got it made, someone thousands of dollars in debt and someone who could also be dead at this point … and everyone else either straight up wouldn’t waste their money on such a thing ( like joyce ), or just wasn’t there long enough to make such a memorial. it’s small and it’s ballsy given the holts and their awful reputation, but it’s still something. i’ve always wanted to write a fic about this -- dante going through the process of burying dale and getting him a nice plot of land as well as an actual tombstone … i wouldn’t be shocked if he thought of it as an apology for how things went, in the end. i cannot for the life of me think of anyone else who’d have the money and the desire to give dale, and potentially bear and tyler, a tombstone in their memory. maybe he thought it’d absolve him of any wrongdoing or lingering guilt he felt? maybe he thought it was enough, when in fact giving these people a proper burial was the least he could do. it’s a fun thought of mine that makes me quite sad regardless!

okay buckle up because we’re still talking about dante and the holts kinda, however! dante strikes me as someone who really, really wanted kids, but becky was probably unable to have them for some reason ; be it because of her accident, her being infertile, or what have you. i think he always dreamed of being a father and never fully was allowed that experience! which shows in how he interacts with zoe and ash, where there’s an overt awkwardness but also this sense of eagerness, a little display of tender heart and real worry. for example, he never once threatens zoe’s life! he may endanger her if she stays in the motel, and he has no qualms trying to kill her dad, yes, but not once does he use her as leverage against vince -- despite the fact that said kid could be firmly in his grasp, if she’s the one released! and i’ll have to post the scene when i replay, but if vince tells dante about zoe while in the back office and then takes her out as the hostage, dante bends down and talks to her and is stupidly sweet about the whole thing! so it might seem ironic for him to have a line, but he does, and it’s kids … another example is that when joyce calls him about ash being missing, he sends every available officer out there to search for ash, and when he finds him, he’s nothing but cautious and gentle and worried. it’s almost odd to see from him! when he quickly sheds his cool composer to show the intense rage underneath in most situations we see him in! but he does care deeply for kids and i like that his life’s punishment is him not being able to have them, be it because of them not actually being his own or circumstances making him not being able to raise any he might have. for someone as ambitious as dante i find it sooo endearing that he just, kinda wants children the most? adds to him i think, and it’s something that somberly reminds you that even the most evil seeming people could have the most mundane desires. seriously, there’s such an empty vibe to the big romero house with a wife who hardly leaves her room and some dog in the spacious backyard … ( and spoilers for the black book : but seeing how much dante wanted a dog and a big house really gives you ‘white picket fence’ american dream! with the missing component being the, y’know, kids, and said missing componet carves out this hollow feeling the entire time you dwell on it )

and this want makes me think he was probably around for the holt boys’ upbringings! i mean, not to be crude, but he was banging their mom and seemed to genuinely have loved her at one point in time, so i can only imagine he’d hang around the house here and there. same as paul, i’m sure! and maybe some part of him enjoyed doting on the boys without actively having to be their pa, allowed to just do the fun things most wannabe parents dream of doing rather than the actual hard work and responsibility, and maybe this once there bond contributes to his reluctance to kill the holts immediately. idk! i could see him being around for tyler and dale’s childhood, only to slwply begin fading when jay was brought into the picture -- and then he didn’t help dale out when it counted, and all the bridges between him and the holts were swiftly burned with that. he definitely talks about tyler and dale like he knows them well, which isn’t as weird for dale ( who has a reputation ) but for tyler? someone who notoriously fades into the background and keeps his head down? it implies a bond, i think, where he knew them young and even after him and sharon fell through he decided to keep tabs on them. would scope out where tyler was doing his odd jobs and had officers keep an eye on dale, etc. he’d keep trying to wash his hands of the holts but he never truly puts them behind him, which can be said for everyone else in the game, honestly! they’re like an infection ( something jay even describes them as! ) to where even if you think you’ve cleaned everything off, there’s always one spot you miss, and then the growth process begins again. anyway! he is unhinged for this by the way. man said : two kids without a stable pa figure? sign me up! and then he’d go on to potentially kill one of them on purpose after antagonizing them like he’s a teenager, which he has the nerve to act sad about in the aftermath. insane!!

( also quick timeline here, that i keep in mind whenever i talk or think about the romeros : so sharon and paul definitely knew each other first, but given paul’s energy towards sharon in the desert dream and obliviousness to her and dante’s affair, i don’t think they stayed close -- not after paul married, anyway. paul probably still came around, given his bond with both sharon & bear, but while dante was probably there a lot for the them as kids, i could see paul becoming a more strong figure when they were teenagers and young adults. their behavior towards paul in the desert dream is … strange! though if i had to guess, i’d say they just didn’t want to act like they knew him as well as they did, in order to protect him from any potential danger as well as themselves. wouldn’t want the other hostages to realize they wouldn’t kill paul, you know? it’d be a weakness, which is something the holt boys try very hard to hide in the desert dream situation )

though to focus back on paul a tad, i’m always obligated to talk about him and bear! like, i love paul and bear, so so much, and they’ve grown on me tremendously once i realized they went into vietnam together as soldiers. there’s something delicious about their predicament, where paul is forced into navigating a war with someone he’s jealous of, and someone who he believes to be a pretty shitty guy. and not only did they go in together, they came out together too … went through the flames and trauma and horror as one of those rare duos that actually got to go back home, with all their limbs attached and all! it’d certainly change paul’s views on bear i think, to have seen him in action like that, and to foster what would’ve been a profound understanding, what with their bond being forged in intense warfare and all. his bond with bear is something i wish the game commented on more ( besides an offhand remark ) but oh, it’s quickly become one of my favorite things. bear is so incapable of making friends, and here’s the only one he probably has, someone so unlike him in personality and also someone who wants his wife carnally! like, jesus, the holts can never catch a break, they’re always involved in the most complicated relationships known to man as the town’s locally cursed family and as the town’s most wanted, i guess! but yeah, paul and bear <3 i view paul actually being closer with bear when they come back, electing to spend more time with him over sharon, since it’s easier and safer for him and his marriage … until that crashes anyway. and then paul decided to go sober, which is probably what destroyed their hangouts, leading to paul’s odd holtless time! would probably see the boys around town, as well as sharon and bear, but might just greet them and ask how things are ( typical small town stuff ) rather than actively making an effort to hang. that kinda thing. like he’s still present in their lives, and i think all the holts respect paul a lot more than words can say, and in their own warped ways, but he was. distant. before things went awry.

also totally unrelated to the romeros, but it’s crazy that tyler is born during the last round of american drafts for vietnam, aka 1973. just find it fascinating that bear would’ve either a.) had to have already served his time, b.) hasn’t been drafted just yet, or c.) came back after one term only to leave again for a second one. i can’t remember which one i personally went with, but it’s fun to think about regardless! that, and the fact there’s no mention of dante serving in the war … which i don’t think he did, personally, and given his extreme macho energy, that’s an absolutely fascinating aspect of his character. but i digress!

hm, some other quick thoughts on the romeros include smaller scale things! like how i usually view the rest of the romero family to be more like paul, more meek and silent, almost an entire herd of pushovers. we know the family shares paul’s point of view where it concerns dante’s title as sheriff -- and while this does paint an unsavory image of dante, i can see another picture that implies dante as the romero family’s black sheep. someone always looked at oddly and gossiped about, disapproval aimed at everything dante does because he’s dante, someone unlike the others. the rest of their blood probably doesn’t bother with him at all outside of paul, a family member dante orbits despite his jabs and vocal distaste towards paul’s peaceful nature. i mean, they share friends, a friend list which is only comprised of the holts and joyce, dante’s officers notwithstanding. two rock is a rather small world ( or, at least, it was supposed to seem that way ) but i still find it telling how tangled up in each other’s lives they are! they even liked the same girl, how crazy is that? and dante also makes a passing comment about how paul shouldn’t lock himself away ‘like grandma did’, and he says this remark with disdain … again! i can’t quite back this up with hard canon evidence, but the other romeros ( & hayes’, paul’s actual last name ) have that sort of meek vibe. this black sheep position dante fills also serves to give him and dale more ground as a narrative pair! which, if it wasn’t obvious from the tyler/vince and jay/zoe pairings in the story, this game loves it’s foils and parallels! another minor thought is that paul gives massive queer energy in ways indescribable but i’ll never forget how he can be like ‘maybe it’s mine and i wear it!’ about sharon’s bra if dante finds it in his trailer, and then can hold it up to his chest if i remember correctly?? the fact his extemely masculine cousin doesn’t even bat an eye at this only makes it more queer! he was like yes that tracks, you would wear a bra /derogatory ,,, i just rotate that scene in my mind a little bit, i will not lie.

my very quick final thought is that jim totally helped dante kill sheriff clayson, an action that would then finally put dante in power. which the black book confirms, because dante did in fact kill that guy! just not with jim, but oh well. jim was there and he helped and he hates dante for it now, trust. what they actually did with jim & dante was boring so this is still canon in my head!

ahh, i think this about sums my thoughts on them up? i probably have more lurking around in my mind and, like always, a lot of these points could suffice as posts on their own with more detail, but! it was fun to pour my general thoughts out there, so thanks so much for that opportunity! hopefully this was coherent and made sense lmfao <3 i’m tickled you love my character analysis for this niche ass game!!

#as dusk falls #answered asks.#THANK YOU FOR THIS … have a wordy ass ramble in response lmfao #i try to be cohesive with these but i wanted to lay down all i could so it’s a bit jumbled and incoherent #but … yeah … i love them … i think they are so fascinating #tbh there is not a single mf that i hate in book one i love ALL these people. this cast of characters is PERFECT #which is rare in games i think. i usually have to make myself like everybody but with book one’s main cast it comes naturally #even the more hateable characters like bear and michelle are SO stupidly well written #and you can’t remove one of the book one characters without changing literally every thing. which i also like!!!#like you can tell the devs REALLY cared about this specific group and formed the story around them and i loooove it #( this is energy they lacked in book two which is why it’s so weird tbh! but i digress let me not be a hater #and yes i hated on the black book in this my bad <3 i just didnt Like It Much even if it was a fun read #anyway anyway! ahem! )#i am shaking dante and paul around like items in a tin can tbh #also dante being like AND YOU CHOSE THEM? OVER ME??? to vince if you don’t side with him is HILARIOUS BTWW #everyone wants vince carnally in adf and dante is not exempt from this. he’s just less insane about it than tyler <3 #dante & vince are pure comedic potential all of their scenes make me laugh. i couldn’t put this in the post so surprise! find it in the tag #i didn’t talk about paul NEARLY as much as i wanted to or should’ve here but i love all his scenes!!!#and despite how jarring it is i don’t mind his moment in book two! i actually quite enjoy it. easily one of my fave moments #y’know. because we focused on someone other than jay for three seconds ADJAKDKAKSA sorry. let me reign in the hater #paul is my king he is my everything he has done nothing wrong in his life #and his friendship with joyce is EVERYTHING TO ME i love how they’re written so fucking bad #it says a lot that when my niece played adf she thought they were married. like they’re THAT close fr fr and it’s refreshing to see #they just mesh perfectly and i love their bonds with vince and michelle and jim!!’#i also ADORE him using his medical knowledge from the war to help vince if michelle is shot … such good defining character traits #as well as his compassion!!! compassion is a big theme in adf too in the sense that it doesn’t make someone weak and paul shows this well #anyway i almost don’t wanna shut up because i love them so bad but. i think i’ll hush for now #tldr : the romeros are well written characters ( even BECKY! ) and they’re a big part of the walkers & holts bullshit #like in a romero and juliet story they are both as important as friar lawrence yknow. that’s the vibe.#thanks sm again and random questions are always welcomed here!! so have an amazing day <3

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