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isolement · 11 months

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and here we go! straight from a review of one of the darkest seasons of rwby so far into a 'where are we now?' sorta review. in this, i get to wax poetic about neopolitan until im blue in the mouth, i love it. spoilers under cut, obviously.

first things first, let's cover the improvements to neo's semblance. i figure this is gonna be the easiest thing for me to cover, so this gets the dubious privilege of being first! now, historically i have stated neo's semblance was largely a mix of illusive appearance with a dash of illusion generation and teleportation. for the most part, this remains the same. however, holy fucking shit has it taken a massive leap in power. the illusive appearance stays largely the same, as well as the teleportation, but the illusion generation is where it really accelerated. as far as i can tell, it has evolved to essentially become pure illusion manipulation. while not all of the listed capabilities are there (feign death, anyone?), options such as hallucination solidification, illusionary environment, and illusory combat are all open to neo. they can create entire mansions, disguise airships as a different country's, create clones of beings and people who can actually attack and take damage, mimic voices (and presumably mimic sounds), teleport, disguise themselves as other people, the list goes on. absolutely fucking *terrifying*, thanks crwby.

now to the meat and potatoes of this. i might as well start off by talking about what my neo is feeling going into volume 9. going by my divergency, s8e13 sees neo running security and interference in case cinder shows up during the evacuation, which she does. neo holds their own against cinder with team RWBY, until neo ends up dangling from a ledge with ruby clinging to their heels and cinder knocks neo off of the platform. during this time, neo is having a gigantic flareup of their PTSD from beacon, they're incredibly pissed off because they almost managed to kill cinder and failed for the 2nd time now, and they have their other sworn enemy dangling from their feetsies. in short; they're angry, they're sad, and they're having a panic attack.

now we go episode by episode, starting with s9e1, 'A Place of Particular Concern'. not much here, i think the only different is neo doesn't physically assault ruby on the way down. pretty sure that given the circumstances, neo just hyperventilates, blacks out, and wakes up in the ever after.

next episode with neo in it is s9e3, 'Rude, Red, and Royal'. neo 100% pulps the jabberwalker, no doubt about it. it dies horribly and painfully, and neo spends some time experimenting with their semblance.

s9e5, 'The Parfait Predicament' does not feature neo, but it does feature an attack of neo created jabberwalkers. im kind of iffy on if neo does do this or not in my divergency. i don't feel like neo would purposefully attack at all, at least not this early. if anything, the jabberwalkers may have been failed attempts at creating non-neopolitan illusions under their control, which subconsciously went after ruby because, well, they were created by neo after all.

s9e7, 'The Perils of Paper Houses'. this one includes a second attack by canon neopolitan, but again, i'm not sure if my neo does this. i feel like the scene of ruby being confronted by a jabberwalker, only for it to morph into cinder, penny, salem, and eventually transform into neopolitan does happen, purely because neo is now feeling 'i need to settle this here and now.' and wants to ensure ruby knows that their grudge isnt over yet. i think the rest of the battle doesnt occur though, maybe the singular jabberwalker distracts the team enough for the paper pleasers to Fucking Die, especially if it managed to lure ruby away from the city a bit.

s9e8, 'Tea Amidst Terrible Trouble', anyone else notice that all of these titles use a lot of alliterations? i assume all of crwby acquired an amazing amount of thesauruses to alleviate the... i'm running out of A words. ANYWAYS, this episode is, again, a fucking brick of an episode. this might be a two paragrapher. so, honestly? i think for the most part, this is fairly accurate to even my neo's character, but i think my neo goes about it a much different way. instead of showing pictures of neo's parent (who they despise), and a mansion that is pretty good in condition, i think ruby wanders into a shoddy mansion in severe disrepair, paintings and pictures of neo and roman up on the wall, pictures of them in mistral, kuchinashi, wind path, atlas, vale, vacuo, quiet nights in and somewhat louder nights out, pictures that show them as the two of them were before volume 3.

that is, to say, happy. a pair of platonic life-partners. two people who have been through hell together, done numerous Totally Legal Actions, Why Are You Asking, What Are You, a Cop?, really anything to make ruby realize just who it was she had a direct hand in killing. even though neo knows cinder was the true mastermind behind everything, ruby was the one who knocked them off that airship, which directly lead to roman being devoured. anyways, as ruby wanders through the house, she eventually comes to that table where, in canon, penny, pyrrha, leonardo, clover, ozpin, james are all sitting. in my divergency, however, it is just neo and roman in a dingy, poorly lit, run down room. there's only one question that gets posed to ruby at this point in time by both roman and neo at the same time.

'are you sorry?' "Are you sorry?"

ruby quite obviously responds 'no, go fuck yourself, i didnt kill roman, yadda yadda'. neo sniffs, stands up, and thus begins the 10 minutes of the most uncomfortable scenes in almost any media i've ever watched. from here, it proceeds much as canon. neo absolutely fucking RUINS ruby, ruby drinks the tea, neo gets possessed (even though neo KNOWS cinder is still alive, i think they're just shocked that they even managed to get one over on ruby, given ruby's infinite amount of plot armor), and thus ends the episode. this ended up being three paragraphs, my word.

s9e9, 'A Tale Involving a Tree', this has neo, but its possessed neo, so i dont have a choice in how it goes. neo, again, hates being possessed and losing their bodily autonomy, ESPECIALLY when neocat starts speaking using their body (honestly quite impressive, seeing as i've HC'd neo's vocal cords to be completely severed from a young age.)

s9e10, 'Of Solitude and Self', this one hurts. on one hand, im happy neo gets to absolutely PULP the cat. on the other hand, i genuinely dont see any path past this episode that doesnt result in neo recognizing 'jesus christ, i need therapy' and choosing to ascend. its a painful decision because i really, really, really want to write neo post vol 9, but i also really want to believe that CRWBY is gonna make the right choice and give neo a; a shorter haircut, and b; a weapon that combines hush and roman's cane into a mix of a short range rapier, a shield, and a gun. i think i have to make the hard choice and agree with CRWBY's choice of having neo ascend. there is no other option that makes sense for the character. i do think that, given the fact that neo has managed to build some form of a relationship with the remaining characters, that there's a moment where neo has a few words with team RWBY+J before choosing to yeet themselves to the tree

s9e1-10, 'The One With All The Trauma', final thoughts on where this series leaves neo. well, for one, im not too particularly happy with it. i enjoy writing neo, i like the character, and to have them sidelined YET AGAIN for an undetermined amount of time does not make me particularly happy, but i also recognize that... neo's long overdue for therapy. way, way, WAY long overdue. they need time to heal from everything, and given the way the blacksmith described the portal, i almost feel like neo's gonna reappear during a fight with cinder. however, this also means that CRWBY essentially has a deus ex neopolitan to deploy whenever they want, which can also mean just shipping neo on a bus and forgetting about the character. i guess i can just spend time twiddling my thumbs and doing v2-3 and 6-8 threads?

anyways, thanks for reading. what a ride it's been, huh

#literally me irl // ooc #rwby vol 9 spoilers #rwby spoilers

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wolfbetweenrivers · 2 years

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My thoughts on RWBY V9C3 (SPOILERS)

In the previous Chapter, Team RWBY figured out that they had somehow ended up in the Ever After, a world from a fairy tale they all read as kids, The Girl Who Fell Through The World. Blake concluded that they should follow the path of the main character, Alyx, in order to get to the giant tree at the center of the Ever After, and go back home from there. They manage to get Yang’s arm back from the Jinxy Peddler, the the talking raccoon who stole it to sell at his auction, but got into a fight with the soldiers of someone known as the Red King, as they wanted to get the arm for his birthday. They also found one of Penny’s swords and took it with them along with Yang’s arm. After being chased down by the soldiers, Ruby persuades them to take her and her team to the Red King’s birthday party, offering Penny’s sword as a gift.

In this episode, Team RWBY is escorted to the Crimson Castle, only to find that instead of the Red King, there is the Red Prince, a spoiled child who rudely rejects Penny’s sword by kicking it away into the bushes and orders for the soldiers who gave it to him to be beheaded. Ruby offers to play a board game with the Red Prince, in exchange for help getting to the Tree, which he accepts gleefully. The board game resembles chess with living pieces, the red ones belonging to the Prince, and the white ones to be played by Ruby. The white pieces are broken and worn out, indicating relentless victories from the Prince. But when Ruby notices some pieces missing, the Prince uses magic to shrink her teammates and have them substitute. It is shown that the white pieces are specifically ordered by the Prince to let him win. Throughout the game, the Prince interrogates Ruby on why she wants to go o the Tree, which she responds by saying it will help her get home. When asked about how she knows this, Ruby refers to Alyx as “someone I know”. At this point, Ruby is able to win the game because of her teammates, which in turn boosts the white pieces’ morale to fight harder. This angers the Prince and he throws a tantrum before coming to a realization that prompts him to ask Ruby what she is. She says she is human, causing what appears to be some sort of trauma response in the Prince and shock in both the red and white pieces. The pieces all turn on Ruby’s teammates, and a fight breaks out. In the end, Ruby wins, but the Prince still threatens them until a strange cat intervenes and guides Team RWBY and Little away from the castle. They realize it’s the Curious Cat who can help them get to the Tree and follow him. Meanwhile, somewhere on another Acre, the Jabberwalker is bleeding while running away from something. It sees something fall from the sky and investigates, only to find Neopolitan, still wanting to kill Ruby. However, something happens when Neo is about to fight the Jabberwalker, there is some kind of reaction between her Semblance and her surroundings, causing her Semblance to evolve, allowing her to create multiple copies of herself. She orders them all to gang up on the Jabberwalker, as the latter begs her to stop. The Chapter ends.

I wanna start off by saying that I love the work that CRWBY has put into this episode, from the environments to the animation and the cinematography. They went really hard on this one for sure. The shot of the butterfly fluttering down inside the bell tower, the fight sequence, the chase scene. All of it beautiful. Weiss’ Snow Angel shot in particular was my favorite, and I absolutely loved the team attack from Weiss, Blake and Yang. The song that played was also amazing! Casey Lee Williams and Martin Gonzales are doing brilliant work with this Volume’s soundtrack.

We expected to see the Red King, but instead are met with the Red Prince. It is never explicitly stated what happened for that to change, but there are hints here and there. One of the soldiers indicates that the King’s absence had something to do with a human who fell here before. The Curious Cat makes an ominous comment about how “times change and so do people when it is their time.” Earlier he also remarks on how the Red Prince was put on his Acre to win his game at all costs. This seems to relate to how everyone in the Ever After is named after their specific purpose, and Little, having not found their purpose yet, is unnamed. The Curious Cat also confirms that Alyx is not the only human he met before Team RWBY. Apparently, others fell before them too. We do not know if Alyx was the cause of the King’s absence, although we know she most likely cheated, as indicated by the Red Prince’s response to Ruby saying she’s human. Something about a human having cheated may have caused the King’s downfall. The theme of finding one’s purpose is constantly brought up throughout the Volume, with it being tied to who they are. And now there is a recurring theme of change too. We know that Alyx went through a change when she fell. She returned home as a different person. And given how it’s become clear that Team RWBY are gonna be confronted head on with their biggest personal issues, they might end up going through the same process, though we still don’t know exactly what the process looks like.

Something strange is happening with Neo. Her Semblance is evolving and it appears to have something to do with the Ever After. It could be worth pointing out how her Semblance is name “Overactive Imagination” and that the Ever After responds to people’s emotions. Whatever it is, it’s made Neo all the more dangerous, and a much bigger threat in this Volume.

There is also something about the Jabberwalker. It went to an Acre that looked like the ruins of a civilization. It picked up a gear and said “fix”, but we don’t really know what that was about. However, it ran to this Acre from another and was bleeding for some reason. It was running away from something. What could it have been?

If we go by the order of Blake’s telling of the story, they’ve met the Hunter Mice, fought the Jabberwalker, taken Yang’s arm back from Jinxy, beat the Red Prince at his own game. Now they have just met the Curious Cat. The next character on the list is the Rusted Knight. This could mean that we are getting closer to seeing what has become of Jaune and learning why the Rusted Knight’s armor resembles Jaune’s. Penny’s sword is still left behind. Will Ruby go back to get it? What exactly did Neo do to the Jabberwalker? What exactly happened to the Red King?

We are slowly learning more about the Ever After, being given more hints about how things work, while also learning about what became of it after Alyx left. And now, the threat of Neo has been confirmed. Team RWBY is now following the Curious Cat, and we might be getting closer to finally seeing Jaune and/or the Rusted Knight.

Looking forward to the next episode

#rwby #rwby volume 9 #rwby v9 #rwby spoilers #rwby volume 9 spoilers #rwby v9 spoilers #my posts

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jdrizzle15 · 3 years

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Her Second Return

Just like all of you, and especially my fellow Penny fans, I am absolutely devastated by the Volume 8 finale. I had been in quite a state these last few days, utterly heartbroken, and actually nauseous at times. It feels strange to me to be legitimately grieving a fictional character, but it’s not a bad thing to feel this way. To me, this just shows that CRWBY loves her just as much as us to have written her so well that we connect so completely with her, that it feels like we lost an actual piece of ourselves when she’s gone.

But as you can probably tell by the title, this mega post isn’t gonna be about accepting this end, not in the slightest! Today I want to share canon evidence that can point towards another return of our beloved quirky red headed cinnamon bun! I’m here to spread this hope that I and others in the Nuts & Dolts dolts Discord server have!

I have this separated into many different sections to keep these thoughts organized. With that said, here goes…

A Father’s Words:

In Episode 7 of Volume 7, ‘Worst Case Scenario’ we learn the origins of Penny’s aura, and thus her soul. We also learn that it takes more aura each time she’s brought back. This leaves open an option that could be used at a later point.

Many people theorized that Pietro could indeed revive Penny one more time, which he would absolutely do. But there also lies the possibility that someone else could donate some of theirs, I’m not sure about this as I feel like it’s akin to blood donation where compatibility matters or there's a high risk of altering her, but the possibility is definitely there.

Now, the conversation in Chapter 5 of Volume 8, ‘Amity’ that Pietro and Penny have is an important moment for both Father and Daughter. It was there to show how her death in PvP all that time ago really did have a heavy impact on him and is still affecting him to this day.

Instead of continuing to pretend that everything is A-okay, like he had done for most of Volume 7, he finally lets his true feelings about how it come out to Penny for what is quite likely the first time. Even going so far as to say "Are you asking me to go through that again?" when she offers to take the risk of trying to lift Amity with her power. He wants Penny to be able to live her life.

This entire scene with Pietro established “this is what will likely happen” even if circumstances are much different now, it doesn’t negate the fact that this is a key part of Penny’s story. Scenes like these have a purpose beyond simply making an eventual death all the more heart wrenching. Her never actually getting to live her life makes those scenes basically moot. It makes them effectively pointless from narrative point of view. Unless there's more to it.

Building Relationship:

The build up between Ruby and Penny the last two volumes has been absolutely phenomenal with a definite destination in mind, and this doesn’t feel like that destination. So much of the arc of this season was to help Penny. This girl that our main protagonist absolutely adores and treasures, it would just be awful to throw all of that out for what amounts to an avoidable end. Why use so much of their precious and very limited runtime on deliberately building up this relationship only to end it abruptly, and permanently, when they’re separated?

In my opinion, RT is definitely smarter now than to intentionally set up what was really looking like a budding gay relationship only to kill one of them for good. If N&D wasn't actually going in a romantic direction, why would they leave in all of the romance-adjacent stuff that they got, that's not how ‘just friends’ act. And that is not something you use such valuable time building up for absolutely no pay off whatsoever...

Representation of Hope:

At its core, RWBY has always been about hope. It’s not at the forefront the whole time, but there's been an underlying theme of hopefulness that has persisted since it began. Some describe the show as a Hopepunk, I personally find this to describe RWBY really well. This genre of storytelling is about caring for things deeply and the courage and strength it takes to do so. It’s about never submitting or accepting the way things are. Fighting for what you believe in and standing up for others. RWBY fits all of this extremely well. How does this relate to Penny? She has been shown to be a sign of hope for everyone, but especially for Ruby, the main main protagonist. A prerequisite for a Hopepunk story is the hope.

Her first death in V3 was something that fundamentally changed Ruby. For the first time in the series, we see our main character all but broken by this event. With the loss of Penny, immediately afterwards, Ruby’s hope followed. She made up for it through determination and force of will. We see it affect her multiple times throughout the journey to Volume 7. But upon her return in V7, Hope reached a high point for everyone, the sheer relief on Ruby’s face is plain to see!

In V8 chapter 5 ‘Amity’, Penny literally raises hope by lifting the arena into the sky so Ruby could spread her message. And when she falls, and Amity with her, the connection is lost and hope plummets again. From there things take a very negative turn with the hack begins to take Penny’s agency.

In chapter 11 ’Risk’ is the point in the arc where everyone is reunited for the moment, so two separate hero stories are no longer a thing at that point in time. For the time being focus seemed to be shifted to care about the characters and how they’re going to solve the current problems. This is also where Ruby reaches her lowest emotional point in the season.

It’s not huge, but it’s interesting how connected this is. Before Ruby and Yang share a good cry over learning the possible fate of Summer, Yang brings up restoring optimism and hope to Ruby after the younger sister storms out of the room in frustration. This is where Penny’s scenes take up the rest of the episode. Getting Penny back in control of her own body and safe again is what makes the ending of the episode much brighter, when just 5 minutes before Ruby had been distraught and scared. This then spills over into the group coming up with the plan to use the staff, putting the main group in a much better mood. Of all the things to go right, it’s interesting that it’s Penny.

Things go wrong with the plan in the end and Penny dies. I find it interesting that once again, Penny got them hopeful in their chances of doing something right. Given said plan succeeded but at the cost of Penny of all people, Penny is shown to be the beginning and end of hope for them

The highest and lowest points for hope seem to directly correlate to when Penny’s around. When she comes back again, hope will return too, just like it had before. And because she’ll likely be back for good this time, the second return will probably be close to when Ruby is nearing the complete abandonment of hope. This would be pretty par for the course of the show honestly.

A little aside, but in a sense, Penny also represents Unity. The CCT in Vale fell after her first death, knocking out global communications and the unifying connection it gave. When it was restored for the briefest moment, she was there. Her body connected so she could allow for its launch, her soul lighting the night to hold up Amity with every ounce of her strength. So of course when the Hack succeeds and she falls, she takes global comms down again with her. At a smaller scale - even at the Hack's second last attempt to control her, she draws everyone in the Schnee Manor together. At the start of the volume, Yang states the one thing that they all agree on is not surrendering Penny.

Unity seems appropriate for one whose first song and wish was for but one friend, who would go on to find so many more in the process, and permit for a moment the possibility of all Remnant becoming friends once more. Where she first died, the name of the episode devoted to her story - Amity, "friendship", from the Latin root amicus, "friend" - she almost lives and dies with the very possibility of a united Remnant. It's no wonder she's a priority target for Salem, the great divider, and it seems natural that her next restoration may very well allow the next bid to bring the world together.

The Void Screams:

Moments after Penny's death, we hear a weird scream in the void space. It was a guttural, pained, angry scream, almost like the void space itself was crying out. All the portals shuddered and flickered when it happened.

Some think that this scream was Salem returning, but that happens earlier than Penny’s death, her return is signaled with cinder's arm acting up. We know this because after the arm finished flailing uncontrollably, Cinder said triumphantly "she's back." If it were Salem screaming, it would have happened after she fixed herself, but it didn't.

And I doubt Cinder would have been surprised or unsettled by it considering she was happy Salem returned not long before it. And why would a Salem scream affect the portals anyway, she has no connection to the staff or it's magic.

Another thing to consider is the fact sound is not transmitted through the portals. Otherwise, they would've heard Oscar and the rest calling for them, or the screams of the citizens of Mantle and Atlas. This lowers the possibility of that scream being from Salem even further.

The sound really seems to be coming from something else entirely within the void, and that something is not at all happy. There’s also the fact that Penny was the only person who died in the void space, everyone else was just thrown out of it like Ruby and Co. The only logical cause to me is Penny. Her body was a product (or byproduct) of the same creation magic that made the void space, her blood seems to have been a trigger.

Now I can't be sure about it, but this makes me feel like Penny is almost a part of creation itself? For whatever this thing is to be so angry, that is the only explanation I can think of currently. But all of this could possibly relate to the Narnia allusion of 'the willing victim killed in a traitor's stead' that others have brought up, which will be covered next.

Narnia Parallels:

Atlas has several parallels and references to fictional places (putting aside real world ones like the United States). One of those is that of Narnia, both on the surface and on a deeper level. It is a land of winter year round, where people struggle to survive and there is a present divide between those loyal to the current Monarch and those who are not. James is a parallel to Jadis, the White Witch, a ruler whose thoughts and cares aren’t exactly centered around the actual well being of the people. The hologram table in Ironwood’s office is designed to look like stone, like the Stone Table which features prominently in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. He has a handpicked cadre of special agents/secret police, like how Maugrim and his wolves served Jadis. Another key parallel is how Jadis’s winter sets in to oppress and kill everyone in Narnia, but the Witch provides aid and protection to her loyal followers. She has all the power to spare harm to others, and uses it only for the loyal. As soon as Mantle splits from James and Atlas, no care is taken to protect them from the cold of Solitas even though he has every ability to turn the heating grid back on. His protection is only for the loyal.

Now that the parallel is established, let's look into the details. Starting with how James plays the role of Jadis.

"I had forgotten that you are only a common boy. How should you understand reasons of State? You must learn, child, that what would be wrong for you or for any of the common people is not wrong in a great Queen such as I. The weight of the world is on our shoulders. We must be freed from all rules. Ours is a high and lonely destiny." These are the words Jadis says in the Magician’s Nephew to justify the blood civil war she and her sister had waged for rulership of Charn, before she came to Narnia. She won that war, technically, but only after the last battle had been lost and her sister had marched right up to her so that they were face to face. Jadis’s troops were dead, her followers had surrendered, and the capital was under full control of her sister. But, she still had one card, one ultimate play to win and prove the throne of Charn was rightfully her. The Deplorable Word, a piece of old magic that killed everyone and everything except for her on Charn. It was monstrous, senseless, cruel beyond measure. But it got her that hollow victory. This mindset, the disregard for the people except as tools for her own will, the ultimate ‘aoe’ destructive move that no one had even considered her using, the unwillingness to stop even when by all practical measures the war is over, is a shocking parallel to James. In many ways, he is Jadis in mindset and deed.

Then there is the shared desire for A Thing that both James and Jadis have. For James it’s the Winter Maiden and control over her. For Jadis it’s the Silver Apples from the Tree of Youth. And funnily enough, the Maiden Powers parallel the Apples quiet well. These apples grant power and a life of eternal beauty, but should not be taken or eaten on one’s own initiative. They must be given, a gift granted by another, or only suffering will come from obtaining them. "For the fruit always works — it must work — but it does not work happily for any who pluck it at their own will. If any Narnian, unbidden, had stolen an apple and planted it here to protect Narnia, it would have protected Narnia. But it would have done so by making Narnia into another strong and cruel empire like Charn, not the kindly land I mean it to be.” Jadis’s immortality, and some of her power, come from the fact that she ate an Apple of her own will after stealing her way into the garden where the Tree of Youth had been planted. She gained the eternal life she had wanted and the power along with it, but she did so by taking it and was cursed because of it. Her skin turned pale and her lips blackened as if she were a frozen corpse given life. She will be trapped in a life of misery and hate according to Aslan- oh hey Cinder, how’s having stolen the Power you always wanted working out for you? Cinder had the power she wanted, but she only got hungrier, eager to claim more and increase her might. But in her pursuit she was defeated and humiliated by Raven, had to steal her way out of Mistral, and then suffered defeat after defeat while in Atlas. Only in the end, when she didn’t keep pursuing the Maiden Power, did she get any kind of victory.

The reason these parallels to Narnia are so important is one of the most famous events of the series. The cracking of the Stone Table and the rebirth of Aslan after his death. ‘When a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backward.’ Well, the ‘Stone Table’ in James’s office has cracked, and Penny strikes me as a pretty willing victim. She has never actually committed any actual treachery or harm, as she was the Protector of Mantle, and fought for its and Atlas’s people until the very end. And because of her death, the actual traitor, Winter, who loyally served James until he had gone too far, was saved. Through Penny’s self sacrifice, Winter was saved. So now Death itself will start working backward.

(Major props to my friend @catontheweb for writing this section, I was getting nowhere with it, if they weren't there this part wouldn't exist!)

Norse Mythology:

The tree we see in the post credit scene gives off some serious Yggdrasil vibes. Also called the World Tree, it is essentially all of creation in Norse Mythology. It connects all nine realms, including the God realms of Asgard, the human realm of Midgard, and the underworld of Hel.

Humans are born from the branches of Yggdrasil. The web of Wyrd is woven for every person once they're born, and their path is set from there regardless of how many times the souls cycle over. But at the end, they're destined to end up in one of the worlds, for a myriad of reasons.

I believe Penny landed closest to this giant tree. She was on the center platform in the void space, so if that space is directly above the island(?) the tree is on, it makes sense for her to fall by the center nearest to the tree. This would not only open up all kinds of possibilities for the volume in general, but it would also create options for Penny.

The whole of Yggdrasil’s representations fit well into Penny’s story. Birth, growth, death and rebirth. We can count Penny’s appearance in V7 as birth for now, her growth is all her development in leaving =the military and becoming a Maiden, her death just happened, and her rebirth would be her revival. And this is a cycle she’s gone through before.

The Norse god Odin and Yggdrasil have quite a connection. In one story, Odin cut out one of his own eyes to gain knowledge from a pool underneath Yggdrasil. The only one that fell whose eyes alone are incredibly significant to the story was Ruby. So, they could choose to have her allude to Odin by having Ruby make some kind of deal with whatever entity likely rules over this magical place. An eye for Penny’s life.

There’s another story about Odin, Yggdrasil and the pursuit of knowledge. Odin so loved knowledge, that he sacrificed himself in a quest to learn the deeper magic of runes. It was believed one could only learn the magic spells from runes in death. So, Odin hung himself on Yggdrasil for nine days as an offering, and teetered between life and death. After he mastered the last spell on the ninth night, he ritually died and all light was extinguished from the world. Odin’s death lasted until midnight, when he was reborn and light returned to the world.

This story doesn’t fit Penny perfectly, but allusions often don’t. So If she really did land near the tree, she could be another loose representation of Odin’s story here. What she did wasn’t for knowledge, but to save her friends and keep Cinder from getting the Winter Maiden power. She believed it necessary that she sacrifice herself to achieve this end. As we established, Penny represents Hope, so her death means the loss of hope. This parallels Odin’s story of his death meaning the loss of light itself. So if this theory holds up, it would make this death temporary, until her rebirth and the return of Hope with her once again.

Alternatively, Ruby has the potential of loosely representing Odin in this story as well. Odin later uses the knowledge of the runes to do many things, but the most relevant one right now is awakening the dead. Both of these stories are about making a personal sacrifice to gain something that is desired. Ruby would absolutely make such sacrifices if it meant saving Penny.

It is said that Odin lived “according to his highest will unconditionally, accepting whatever hardships arise from that pursuit, and allowing nothing, not even death, to stand between him and the attainment of his goals." This sounds like Penny's arc of accepting the WM powers. This is more just a general connection between Penny and Odin, but I found it interesting.

Side Note: I encourage anyone who’s interested to look into RWBY connections to Norse Myth, there’s a surprising amount of things that feel eerily similar to the show. Likely just coincidental, but it’s fun to think about!

(If I got any of this wrong, I sincerely apologize by the way. I researched as best I could, but I admit it could have been lacking.)

Ambrosius and the Staff:

Ruby told Ambrosius "we kinda wanna keep her around longer than that" as part of her very specific instructions. Then Penny died about ten to fifteen minutes, at the absolute most thirty minutes later in-universe. I don’t know about you, but to me that seems very short to be considered ‘longer than that’. Technically it is, but when writing a story and a character says something like that, you typically don’t just kill the character they were referring to basically right away. It makes sense for a week-by-week watch, but in a volume binge, which many viewers do, it becomes ironic how fast Penny dies after being removed from her robotic body.

The first time we see the staff of creation being used, it's to save Penny. Using the staff of creation to help Penny is a sign of how incredibly important she is.

They’ve even got this entire transformation sequence for her, so it wouldn’t make sense for them to throw all that away two episodes later. In a meta context, it’s a massive waste of time and budget considering the asset creation for Penny.

Penny is a character who has already hopped bodies two times. And now we're supposed to just believe that this time it really is a final death? Just two episodes after we were explicitly told her body isn't what matters, that "Her soul is who she is" and that "the mechanical parts are just extra"? From a writing perspective, it feels strange, like your breaking a promise right after making it. And frankly, CRWBY is better than that, which makes me think this is not the actual end for her.

A possible connection between Penny, Ruby, and the Staff (thus Creation) can be seen in the intro. As Ruby is falling and being dragged down into the darkness, she is shown reaching for the staff. In the void space, Penny is the one with the relic. So with Penny having this strong connection to Creation, and the lyrics “fight for every life” playing as Ruby reaches for the staff, it’s a safe assumption to make, with the knowledge we now have, that the Staff of Creation represents Penny in this particular moment. Which could mean that V9 will be about, at least partially, fighting for Penny’s life.

Musical Hints:

In terms of music, Friend, as a song for Penny, is very dissonant from the episode itself. The song is oddly cheerful for Penny’s recent untimely death, and it overall highlights the wrong parts of death. It’s simply too happy to be a song about losing one of the most, if not the most joyous characters in the entire show. The song also abruptly ends. There’s no outro, and while this could symbolize the fact that Penny died young, it could be that the song itself is unfinished in a story sense.

What do we hear just before the song finishes, though? A progression of notes that sounds eerily similar to the last line of the opening of Volume 8. The notes for “Fight for ev’ry life” and “Who fin’lly felt alive'' share a similar melodic structure, they aren’t perfect clones of each other, but they are incredibly similar, to the point where it seems intentional. Penny may very well be the life that the opening song is fighting for. It is also worth noting that the line “Fight for every life” comes just after “Sometimes it’s worth it all to risk the fall,” which is the exact wording used for the description in the Volume 8 finale. Team RWBY risked the fall, yet, strangely the opposite of fighting for every life happened with Penny’s sacrifice. Perhaps the time to fight for every life has yet to happen, and we will see it come Volume 9.

For another thing, the lyrics for Friend are entirely centered on Penny’s feelings for Ruby, to the point where they read very much like a bittersweet love song. The music itself is incredibly cheerful, as mentioned previously, creating a mood whiplash with the end of the volume. Why would we hear a song about Penny’s feelings for Ruby, sounding like a love song, if her death is supposed to be a tragic sacrifice akin to Pyrrha’s? The song may very well be giving a clue into its future use in the show proper.

If this was meant to be a good bye song, why make it so cheerful and romantic sounding? There's only one part about her dying and even then, it's just too accepting and goes right back into cheerfulness. The song is also pretty hopeful, telling Penny's story in a fairly chronological order. And the part where she talks about sacrifice is quite pointedly followed up by one about feeling alive. It also ends with the super cheerful chorus, the word "alive" being the last... (Remember the episode title: The Final Word)

(I want to thank my friend @shadow-0f-x for writing the majority of this section! I was struggling to choose how to tackle it as I am not well versed in music theory.)

What We Didn’t See:

It is likely that Penny understood Jaune's semblance better than him and figured something out about it’s abilities in the same way that she understood Ruby's semblance better than her. She had plenty of time to observe his semblance up close as he boosted her aura to stave off the virus. Because of that intentionally timed cutaway in the finale, we don’t get to hear her explain herself after her strained “Trust me.” All of that seems really suspicious to me.

Pyrrha Parallel:

Pyrrha and Penny both sacrificed themselves to stop or stall Cinder. Jaune tried to convince the both of them to stop. With Pyrrha, he failed, while with Penny he actively helped her sacrifice herself. Doesn’t make sense for the guy who was determined not to let anyone else do what Pyrrha did, unless of course Penny assured him she’d be alright.

The Moment:

RT including the suicide hotline in the description shows that they're aware that Penny basically committed assisted suicide, seeing it as a noble sacrifice worth doing to save her friends. They're aware, and I believe they're smart enough to condemn that decision to hell and back.

The best way to do that in my opinion is to pull her back into the land of the living and let her witness first hand the consequences of throwing her life away so freely. This would show Penny how her actions affected others so maybe she could learn to truly value herself. To not think herself expendable. It would be bold and unwise to portray this choice as something good, unless it was going to be called upon later and be pointed out for how horrible it really is.

On top of this, Penny was way too content with her death, happy even. There's no way team RWBY is letting her stay content with it. It’s almost as though we're supposed to join Ruby and Co. in calling bullshit on what Penny is saying and doing because no, Penny, this is not how things are meant to work. It's as if Penny was basically saying "I want to die for my friends" because most of the volume had been about everyone else making sure she didn't die. She knows it will hurt them. She knows.

At the peak of it all, a choice like this will totally destroy Ruby. It may very well be her breaking point for Volume 9. Curiously, the moment itself is written like it’s the first choice Penny’s ever made, yet the entire Volume shows this isn’t the case. However, this is the first choice that Penny’s made solely independently and it’s rather pertinent that the choice she makes is a mistake. Outside of giving Winter the Maiden gift and saving the day temporarily, this sacrifice will not have any lasting positive effects. Jaune will be saddled with the grief of killing Penny. Ruby will have to live with losing her best friend and not being able to protect her a second time, and Winter now has the burden of the Winter Maiden abilities, making her a target of Cinder. This is a bad thing, and Penny needs to see the long term consequences.

Transfer of Power:

As we all know, colors in RWBY are really important and get a lot of focus in the show. That means the yellow we see as Penny gives Winter the Maiden Powers was intentional and likely important, no matter how insignificant it may seem. It’s possible that the transfer effect being yellow could have something to do with Jaune’s semblance. When Fria gave the power to Penny, the effect was very much blue, so this transfer should have been green since she was the one giving it this time. The weirdness of this transfer and the focus on color in RWBY really makes it look like something’s up with how that went down.

A little off topic, but Penny saying "I won't be gone, I'll be part of you." makes me think... Winter is smart, so when she gets time to think about what Penny said, maybe she'll arrive at the same question many in the audience came to; if she's literally part of Winter, can they be separated again? If Winter starts questioning that, the possibility of Penny coming back just skyrockets.

Fria actually tells Penny "I'll be gone" before giving her powers up, which is an interesting contrast to Penny telling Winter "I won't be gone". She may have gotten that line from Winter be all philosophical in V7, saying Fria was now a part of Penny, but it hits differently coming from an actual Maiden. S5o it’s possible that Maidens usually actually will be gone, but Jaune's semblance did something to change that.

This could go well with the theory that they won't need to find an aura transfer machine, or build another one, because Jaune will have a semblance evolution allowing him to do the transfer instead. It might actually be that this evolution already happened and the golden light we saw was Jaune transferring penny's aura to Winter in some way?

An observation that I find interesting is when Penny gives winter the powers, not only is the aura yellow but penny completely glows yellow too, and she obviously starts to disappear, but she doesn’t seem to fully disappear, she just glows.

It's possibly a fading out effect and she does fully fade but animation makes bright light easier, and so we don't actually see her disappear because she's dead and not gone. But it does once again emphasize the color yellow here!

And the color is coming from Penny, it does go up Winter's arm a bit, but Penny is clearly the source. This transfer is so weird and I’m not really sure how to interpret it. There's just actually no reason that we are aware of to make the effect yellow here is the thing. Unless it has something to do with either Jaune or Ambrosius, or potentially a combination of both...

Jaune’s Aura:

The way we see Jaune's aura break in the finale is strange. His aura shouldn't be breaking here. It had been long enough since he was boosting Penny, he's had time to recharge, and it didn't look like it was a strain on him at all. Plus, we know he has a lot of aura, so there probably wasn't too much to recharge in the first place.

He has a massive amount of aura, it has never broken before as far as I remember. Even if it has though, that doesn’t make this occurrence any less odd. It should absolutely never be a one-hit KO. We didn't see anything that would've drained it, that should not have been enough to break his aura. Unless he did something - something that would require a huge amount of aura - that we just didn't see. That amount of aura drain is far more than just an attempt at healing would do, Jaune absolutely did something with his semblance that took up almost all of his aura.

Pinocchio Allusion:

As any Penny fan knows, her character allusion is Pinocchio, the puppet who became a real boy. Penny deviates from the allusion by having always been a real girl, as Ruby is quick to point out, but she shares many story beats with her original story including multiple deaths. In the original story, Pinocchio dies from being hung by his own strings due to his poor decision making and he dies. Sounds a little familiar, does it not? This is where his tale originally ended. Readers were unsatisfied with this ending however, so the author decided to change the story by reviving Pinocchio and teaching him to be more careful.

Unlike Pinocchio making all the wrong decisions, Penny often makes the right ones, or ones she thinks is right, when concerning others. While usually a good thing, this has meant Penny almost giving herself up multiple times during V8, her last attempt being successful. This is where Penny and Pinocchio begin to share similarities again. They are both very reckless when it concerns themselves. This carelessness comes from different places, but it ends with the same result of them endangering their lives and even sometimes losing them.

In the Disney movie, Pinocchio dies by drowning after going to rescue Geppetto and washes up on the shore (like the beach in V8’s post credit scene). His father is devastated and takes him home to grieve, but as a reward for his selflessness in rescuing his father, the Blue Fairy returns and brings him back to life, as well as granting him humanity. Penny sacrificed her life as well, and it stands to reason that she should be rewarded for it, much like her allusion was.

Penny got her maiden powers from someone with blue aura and then gave her powers to someone with blue aura. So it could be that not only Ambrosius, but Fria and Winter as well represent the Blue Fairy. It could be set up for Winter helping to bring Penny back to life once more. It’s an out there theory I admit, but it’s not outright impossible either. The Blue Fairy in Pinocchio saved him three times that I know of, so RWBY having three representations does make sense.

Geppetto wished for him to live as a real boy, but it depended on what path Pinocchio took. This is very reminiscent of Penny and Pietro. Pietro wants to see her live her life, and surely with him absent in V8C14 that didn't work, despite Penny choosing. Her father did not see her happy enough to live her life, and will only be able to learn her death through others. But Pinocchio's themes were life and being alive. So the likelihood that this is not her end yet is quite high!

A Girl That Fell Through the World:

Penny could be the girl who fell through the world. The girl in the story fled the consequences of a choice. The only person who chose her ultimate fate was Penny. The others were pushed into the void, but she chose to die. The consequence of her choice is Ruby’s grief first and foremost, which Penny won’t see. The girl who fell through the world does come back though, and the world will be changed severely with Penny’s absence. Alternatively, it could also be Penny coming back to Wonderland or wherever they currently are, as long as it’s unrecognizable to her.

What Returning Brings:

Others might say another return would have no story relevant purpose, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Penny gives a profoundly youthful, joyous, and wondrous outlook on the world and story that we hadn't seen since Ruby in Volumes 1-3(not the end), Penny returning would bring a much needed levity back in after the despair they will undoubtedly be going through. While not necessarily a huge thing in most other shows, for RWBY, a show largely about keeping up hope, an ounce of such relief is a necessity.

As much as I hate saying it, Penny’s death does actually make some narrative sense because she had to pass on the Maiden powers. (They could have done this in a number of ways, and I personally think they chose rather poorly, but I digress.) Throughout this whole volume, we can see Penny seemingly being set up to join the main cast, but would have been too strong with the powers. This also accomplishes ridding her of the burden of responsibility that comes with being a Maiden and lets her obtain the freedom that’s so important to her character.

Once she returns, seeing this grief that her actions caused, particularly to Ruby, will get her to realize more that her actions can have serious repercussions. She made a choice, but that choice hurt the people she loves. She must have known that it would but I’m not sure she ever realized just how much.

I didn’t want this post to be heavy in the shipping department, so I largely left it out, but I am going to say this one thing that could have an impact. If Nuts & Dolts is on its way to being canon, which this volume makes it feel highly likely, this could be a catalyst.

It could prompt an arc for the both of them in which Penny learns to live her life fighting for her loved ones, rather than sacrificing it for them. A relationship could potentially start from there. And Ruby seeing Penny learn these things may also help her to stop doing the occasional but very dangerous and reckless things she does. Ruby witnessing Penny coming to terms with what she did to the people that care about her would actually make her stop to think “wait, is this how everyone else would feel if I got myself killed?” That would be a very important moment of character growth for her.

I’m certain there are other significant things that Penny returning can bring to the show. And there are definitely more sections I could add to this. At this point though, assuming anyone even made it this far, I think I’ve been going long enough already. So let’s just roll into the outro!

As painful and hopeless as it seems, I'm choosing to trust them with this because there is absolutely no way they didn't see backlash coming. The way this finale went makes me think that they calculated for backlash and aren’t jumping into something they don’t have a plan to recover from. Whether this trust is unfounded or not remains to be seen, but I don’t think it is currently. I do think, however, that the cause of this backlash was a major misstep. Now that it has happened though, they have a chance to do something good with it.

I know for a lot of you, trust in CRWBY has been damaged, some even irreparably so. And for those that feel this way, I don’t blame you. My trust in them took a hit too, but isn’t broken completely yet. There are many ways that they can bring her back that would make sense with the narrative, they have the ability to make it right, and after going over all of the hints and general weirdness of things many times, I think they will.

I'm feeling pretty confident now and I really didn't expect that to happen at all to be honest. But discussing and theorizing with the discord server seriously helped get my hopes back up surprisingly fast! It’s actually thanks to all of them that this gigantic post even happened! So thanks a ton my fellow Dolts! And a special thanks to!!

@arcana-amicus

@catontheweb

@cosmokyrin

@gaydontmesswithme224

@jammatown919

@shadow-0f-x

They really helped get this thing across the finish line!

And thank YOU for reading all~ of this! I sincerely wish it gave you some of the hope and confidence that I now have!

#RWBY #rwby vol8 #rwby v8 #rwby spoilers #Penny Polendina #nuts and dolts #mechanical rose #a little #Essay #more like dissertation #I haven't written this much in #probably ever actually #Have HOPE people!

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jageshemashftw · 3 years

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Difference between Blake killing her abuser and Cinder killing her abusers

First off, let me just say that I’m pretty sure CRWBY isn’t trying to victimize Cinder’s abusers or say that they didn’t deserve what was coming to them. You’re definitely not supposed to feel ‘bad’ for them. But, at the same time, there’s a clear difference in narrative tone between Blake killing Adam and Cinder killing her step-family despite both being victims of their abuse, and there’s a clear attempt at painting one in a sympathetic light for this act, while the other is painted in a villainous, if still very tragic, light.

So, of course, the fandom is a bit split on how to take this supposed double-standard. Why was Blake justified, but not Cinder?

As always, circumstances are everything when it comes to extreme situations like taking a life. And, in my humble opinion, it comes down to necessity and agency.

In Cinder’s case, she had an out. She was all set to go with Rhodes and start her Huntress training, and then she’d never have to even think about her abusive family again. I know it’s never as simple as just leaving your abuser, emotionally speaking. But point is, on a purely practical level, Cinder had an out.

Even during that final scene, when her step-family confronted her over having a weapon, Cinder had the option to just run away. She had the skill to subdue without lethal force, and her step-family would not be able to stop her. Hell, even factoring in the shock collar, Cinder showed that her training gave her the mental and physical fortitude to block the pain, meaning she could have just taken the remote from her step-mother and break it. But she specifically chose not to. She chose to let her step-mother continue to shock her while she choked the life out of her in a display of power. She wanted her step-mother to die slowly while abusing her. It was an incredibly unpractical method of dispatching her, and she did it purely for the satisfaction it would give her.

Blake didn’t have an out. Adam hunted her down with an obsessive drive that made it clear that he would not stop hunting her until she was either dead or his possession again. During the final battle between Blake, Yang, and Adam, they gave him every chance to walk away. And Adam refused every, single, time.

Adam made it very clear that he would not stop coming after Blake until one of them was dead. So Blake kills him in a the heat of a life-or-death battle and takes absolutely no joy in doing so. Relief that her abuser is no longer a threat to her, certainly. But not joy at the act of taking another life.

Cinder kills her non-combatant step-family, who have absolutely no chance of fighting off someone with Huntsman’s training, and Cinder absolutely revels in the act.

Again, I’m not trying to suggest that Cinder’s abusers didn’t deserve to die. They absolutely did, and I’m certain CRWBY isn’t trying to tell you otherwise. But what they deserved and what Cinder had to do to rid her life of her abusers are two very different conversations.

Adam left Blake with literally no choice but to kill him just so she wouldn’t die herself. And she took no pleasure in the loss of a human (or, rather, Faunus) life, no matter how necessary or justified.

Cinder had a choice to just leave her step-family in the misery of their own selfishness and never pay them another thought, and she cut them down in furious vengeance.

#tw: abuse #tw: child abuse #RWBY #character analysis #blake belladonna #cinder fall #adam taurus #shit post

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dragynkeep · 3 years

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I don't care what the FNDM says, Adam was murdered. I don't just mean by the awful writing around him, I mean by Blake and Yang

To preface this, while I don't like where Adam as a character went, I acknowledge his canonical abusive and stalkerish behavior. He wasn't an "uwu baby" in the show proper. He stalked Blake and attacked her and she and Yang were well within their right to defend themselves.

But–

Having Blake and Yang murder him when he was unarmed and defenseless was extremely dumb. I'm guessing the writers just wanted him dead and gone so they could bury their racist racism plot line along with him, but the scene doesn't work.

Adam didn't have his sword. His aura was broken and he couldn't use his Semblance, so he was entirely defenseless. (nb4 anyone mentions his gun, CRWBY forgot about it too because almost no one in RWBY uses their ranged weapons anymore and Adam didn't even reach for it.)

He ran for the broken blade of Gambol Shroud, and if he had actually managed to grab it, then yeah, I suppose I could see why stabbing him would be a good thing, but if you actually go back and watch the scene, Yang and Blake grab it first and make a point to real back and stab him instead of just leaping away from him.

There was absolutely no reason to literally murder him, because that's what it was. Actions aside, he was unarmed and defenseless and they still attacked, that's no longer self defense.

I'm not saying they needed to give him a redemption arc (because Adams's character had already been slaughtered and CRWBY would be too incompetent to write a compelling redemption arc) but they could have so easily knocked him out, tied him up, and taken him to Atlas. It would have also given the others a chance to react to him, like Qrow and Ruby seeing the man who took Yang's arm, or Weiss seeing the SDC brand on him and fully realizing the extent of her family's evil.

Hell, taking him to Atlas would be good in general since it's the most racist Kingdom and we could've gotten more insight into him and the Faunus as a whole.

I dunno. Just frustrated with the show's wasted potential while also being glad a character I liked is dead so CRWBY can't torture them anymore.

I will always go on about Adam's wasted potential and how his portrayal in the show was just rife with unfortunate implications and downright racist thinking, but there is one thing I will say.

His death was not a murder, in Blake's case.

For the simple reason that, just like Adam was Auraless and had no weapon, so was Blake. While Blake made it clear multiple times that she would let Adam go if he just left her alone, which he rejected, Adam has made it abundantly clear that not only would he never leave Blake be, but that he is very much willing to kill her and anyone around her who stands in his way.

Given the context, the state Blake was in, and what would happen if she didn't stab him, Blake very well could reasonably fear for her life and take Adam out to protect herself. Blake stabbing Adam is not murder, because either she did that or he would kill her. That's self-defense.

The situation gets muddy when Yang gets involved.

Sure, she had no Aura just like Blake and Adam, but Yang was still armed and was not in harm's way. Adam wasn't focusing on her, he was focused on Blake, and Yang still took the other part of Blake's weapon and stabbed him in the back.

There's is reasons that could be had for this. Yang very well could've feared for Blake's life, she didn't know if Blake would get the weapon first or Adam would, so she just moved and grabbed the piece that Adam wasn't paying attention to so that, even if Adam got the other part, she could still stop him and protect Blake.

But Yang's case isn't self-defense. She isn't fearing for her own life, she still had means to take Adam out without the sword because she was still armed. However justified it was, Yang still murdered Adam, and add onto the fact that she is a human and he is a Faunus, we start running into very unfortunate territory, especially when taking Yang's own racism and indifference to Faunus racism in the past.

It's why the whole Adam dying thing should've been Blake's thing only. He was Blake's partner, he was her main villain, she was perfectly justified to stab him because her life was in danger if she didn't. Take Yang out of the equation, and in regards to this whole death, I wouldn't be so angry about it.

#rwby #rwde #adam taurus #yang xiao long #blake belladonna #answered #luke.txt

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shortkingvi · 3 years

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I'm not even saying that I want it to happen(although I'm definitely not opposed either) but Blake and Yang may do way more than kiss in vol 9. Like have we even considered... we haven't really gotten to see romance play out in rwby just yet and we definitely know crwby is willing to go THERE. I think there will definitely be some kind of sexual innuendo in future volumes. I mean they originally planned to put in that cherry knot scene and we know that crwby isn't scared to show more mature content if the story calls for it. Maybe the JL/rwby comic is just preparing us for what's to come?0_0

every morning i get up and i think you all will give me peace and every morning i am proven wrong :(

i was thinking the other day about how they’re not beholden to a specific set of standards or ratings since rt is both the producer and distributor and don’t rely on advertising for income. we’ve also seen them getting testy at time too, like letting emerald swear or penny’s death which was,,, heavy for sure

anyways i think you’re right about the fact that we’re entering pretty unknown territory here and while i don’t think they’ll be SHOWING anything because there are minors that watch the show, i wouldn’t be surprised if we had some suggestive scenes or bits of dialogue,,, like maybe them waking up sleeping on each other

OR OR OR them waking up one day and weiss and ruby both being just absolutely exhausted and weiss being like “please. you two. i am not a violent person by nature but if you’re EVER that loud again i will personally kill you both”

anyways yeah i could definitely see them getting a bit more testy with the content now!! it’s interesting that this is a show that hasn’t really done romance in its entire 9 volumes and i am really excited to see what they give us!

#great point anon!#rwby #yang xiao long #blake belladonna #bumbleby #asks #anon #tags for my own organization

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cosmokyrin · 3 years

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Hey kyrin hope your doing great after volume 8. I just want to let you now that what happened to penny was not right. She didnt deserve to die just becouse she was made human only to give the winter maiden power to winter. I just dont understand why would they build up a character like penny only xlto kill her off? Her death really hurts.

Thanks for checking in. I do feel somehow better now after talking it out with the community.

To be honest, I’m kind of seeing the point others are making that she’s not gone and she will be back. My point of contention was that there could have been many ways, or minor adjustments they did to the scene placements and dialogue that could have changed how we interpreted Penny’s death.

We’ve been discussing this around, but the thing is, if CRWBY wanted to say something about Penny being back or not, they should have made it clear. Character deaths in RWBY are typically hinted and given clues at, but not once did they give enough to Penny because she was always assured by the characters that she will live. She was sacrificial, yes, but everyone told her that’s not good. It was Penny’s lesson to learn. But then the finale just sort of made her die out of the blue, and it may have a plot reason, but in the entire context of V8? There was no purpose.

If they wanted to say Penny will live, they should have made the clues obvious enough to offset the shock that other people will have, because the more salient points of her arc reads differently from her ending. Aside from that, the message and surrounding context of Penny’s death is heavy (such as assisted suicide, and other life and death ethical dilemmas), and that, I think, is something they should not display only subtle clues for, otherwise it sends a debatable message to a variety of audience.

Another thing is that the volume ended on such a low, hopeless note. They could have gone for another episode, or put this death event somewhere in episode 12 or 13, and not the finale. Otherwise, the audience is absolutely left in the dark. There wasn’t even a hopeful thing to offset the character defeats, which is something they may be going for, but the thing is, it does leave a very bad taste considering what happened to Penny.

#zero19991999 #askbox #spoilers #rwby volume 8 #rwby volume 8 spoilers #rwby spoilers #rwby v8 spoilers #suicide #tw #content warning #discourse #rwby discourse #penny polendina

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ironwoodprotectionsquad · 1 year

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Feel free to ignore I’m just continuing to vent about CRWBY beneath the cut. Tw suicide mention.

What absolutely kills me about how CRWBY has been treating suicide every time is just how callous and thoughtless it is. It’s clear none of the writers involved in writing those scenes have ever hit a low point where they feel worthless and useless. They’ve never wondered if maybe the world is better without them, that they’re a no good useless waste of space that can never get anything right. That their “friends” won’t care if they’re gone. They’ve never wondered if theirs any point in trying because they’re nothing but a failure so they’ll fail anyways so why bother. They’ve never wondered if they’re worthless. Or why no matter how hard they try it’s never good enough. Because if they ever have been in a place like that they wouldn’t write these scenes or make the jokes they make because they’d get it.

#rwde #tw suicide #tw suicide mention #tw self hatred

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deadmandairyland · 3 years

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WARNING: Just a heads up, I’ll be mentioning suicide in this post. Please stay safe.

So I finally saw the scene everyone has been talking about, and I’m just going to say one thing for now.

I think nuance is an important thing to understand when it comes to these things. I’ve seen people react to this in a way that suggests they think the writing staff is trying to send a message that sometimes ending it all is the right thing to do, and I very highly doubt that that was the message they were trying to send.

First, I think it’s easy to forget that RWBY is not a children’s show. I think people hold RWBY (and most other animated shows) to a certain standard about teaching morals and life lessons, and they forget that at the end of the day it’s just a story in a format that we mistakenly assume to be “for children” until we’re told otherwise. So when we watch a show like RWBY, we assume that everything that goes on in the show is supposed to be teaching us some kind of life lesson, but sometimes it’s just a story. Sometimes it’s just a piece of fiction that is designed to entertain and to create some kind of emotional response in the person consuming it. Do I think RWBY has themes? Of course I do. Do I think RWBY teaches lessons? Absolutely. Do I think “you should commit suicide” is one of the lessons CRWBY is trying to teach us? Definitely not.

Second, none of us will ever be in the same position as Penny was in in this scene. You do not have magical powers that a villain is trying to kill you for in order to gain more power. You do not have magical powers that could go to someone else in the event of your death. Penny here, who was already dying and was under the impression that she wasn’t going to survive long enough for Jaune to heal her, came up with a strategy that would ensure that this magical power would go to someone she trusts. It just so happens that her strategy involved her dying, which she felt was going to happen anyway.

I know how invasive suicidal thoughts can be. I’ve had them too. But just remember: you are not in Penny’s position here. You are your own person living in the real world, and your life matters. Please stay safe.

I hope I worded this okay. I’m not always good with words, and I’m worried that some of this might come off as harsh. Everything in italics was for emphasis, and was not me being a sassy bastard, I promise.

#rwby #penny polendina #rwby spoilers

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afoolforatook · 4 years

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V8 Ch 4 and Qrow’s speech about Clover. And how we talk about how a character grieves, versus how grief is handled by writers.

So I really shouldn’t post this tonight because it’s 4 am and I’m tired and I’ve been thinking about this too much today already and this is something I should read over more..... But I’ve got to get it out before I can try to sleep. So, first off I apologize if this comes across poorly, or overly confrontational. It’s not at all how I mean it and I’m genuinely not upset with literally anyone. Just seeing some things that have me thinking about this more and more and it has me a little concerned, and I want to talk about it a bit more directly.

I’ll probably add to this later or clarify or something… I just had to get it out of my head.

I already talked about this some in response to theonceoverthinker’s post about it, and I’m too tired to try to cover all of that again, so if you want more context on how I feel about this, and why, please go read it.

But I’ve seen some more posts about this conversation, and while for the most part I agree with a lot of what’s being said (and often on both sides of whether or not this was a good speech from Qrow) there’s one thing that I do want to address a little more that I think a lot of people aren’t aware of.

In talking about this it’s important that we differentiate between having a problem with how we think the writers are going to use this speech to frame things, and having a problem with the fact that Qrow said what he said in the context of his current emotional state and grieving process.

Do I think this was just amazing perfect writing and handling of Qrow expressing these feelings? Absolutely not. I have plenty of issues and really can’t say how I feel about it until I know where they are taking it/how they are using it to frame the entire situation.

Do I think it was just inherently awful callous dialogue that frames Clover as only important to Qrow because of his semblance and what that meant for Qrow/interaction with his semblance?

Absolutely not.

And that’s exactly where I have a bit of an issue.

Because I totally understand people’s concern with that speech. And I have a very hard time right now trusting that CRWBY will handle it properly and not just use it to turn the narrative into blaming Clover. I don’t know if I trust them or not. I just don’t know. And that is deeply concerning.

But the just surface of what Qrow said, without knowing how they will use it and further show his feelings, is not just the inherently awful thing I’m seeing some people take it as. And the reasons I’ve seen for people saying so, while completely valid things to take issue with in regards to CRWBY’s intentions in writing them, can’t just be blanket applied as issues with the fact that Qrow said them at all. (this is one of the things I feel fairly certain I’m not explaining well rn, and I’m just too tired to figure out. So I hope it at all makes sense).

My point is; depending on how things go from here on out, CRWBY may be completely wrong for why they included these lines and what they are having them mean. But Qrow, as a character, is not inherently wrong for having said or felt them.

I can totally see why you would interpret these lines as concerning, and just plain poor takes on how to frame what happened in ch 12, and who to blame, and the nature of Clover’s importance to Qrow.. And like I said, it could very well be intended that way and negate everything I’m saying here. But by itself it’s not so black and white horrible.

And this is exactly why I’m so nervous about how they handle Qrow’s grief. Because grief is a complicated thing. And what someone like me, who has processed a similar grief in a similar way, gets from this kind of scene can be very different to someone who hasn’t. And all of this said, I’m not trying to assume what anyone else has been through, or invalidate any grief, it’s very likely that others have dealt with a similar loss and feel very differently, or experienced their grief very differently. But, what I hope we all can agree on is that no one has the right to tell someone else they are grieving wrong.

The thing about the kind of grief that Qrow is dealing with right now? It’s very rarely shown how people actually deal with it, especially in more than just one short scene. And if it is, it’s often romanticised and sterilized to be made into something easily understood by people who haven’t gone through anything like that.

Because the truth is, this kind of grief is ugly. It’s complicated and contradicts itself. It can seem selfish and self absorbed. It is angry and reactionary.

And it is very easy to say that what Qrow said is toxic or wrong. But it’s not. The intention the writers have in having him say it that way very well might be. But just what he said?

Y’all that’s fucking grief.

Fresh. Ugly. Messy. Angry. Confused. Tired. Grief.

Healthy grief does not mean fair, clear headed, sensitive, open minded takes from the get go.

Grief is incredibly flawed and unflattering.

And what concerns me is seeing people say it was outright terribly written dialogue, that was callous, and showed that Qrow didn’t really care about Clover beyond how he made him feel better about his semblance.

Because when you’re grieving like that, one of the biggest fears is that people will tell you you are grieving wrong. That you’re being selfish. That you’re making it all about you. That somehow the way you are grieving proves that you didn’t really love the person as much as you thought. That if you just loved them more, if you were less selfish, if you were just a better person, you wouldn’t think those kinds of things.

And you internalise that shit. You internalise even just the fear of people thinking that. And that’s how people close up about their grief. That’s how people feel guilty for how they grieve. And that makes actually processing your grief and starting to heal so much harder, if not impossible.

Qrow is still in the immediate aftermath of this loss. I’m awful with the exact timeline, but it’s what, like somewhere around 48 hours? With continued trauma going on around him.

It is literally not possible for him to process everything fully like this.

The fact is that someone struggling with that kind of grief and trauma, and it having happened in a situation as complicated as what happened on the tundra (regardless of how terribly all of it was written), they’re going to say things that seem selfish. Or even victim blaming. Because they are processing. They are having to reconcile their own hurt and anger and grief and confusion. Fight between how they feel about the person they’ve lost, and their instinct to, in some way, protect themselves from a painful truth of how things really happened or who was to blame, or what mistakes they made. Even with Qrow accepting some of that blame, maybe even way more than he should, he’s still going to reflexively try to avoid taking parts of it that are particularly painful. I hate 90% of how people think of the stages of grief, mostly because they are not the clear linear thing that is often thought of. But this is the anger in a sense. It’s a protective lashing out. “If Clover had only!-” He wants to be angry, wants to be able to just say Clover was wrong, but as soon as he does he cuts himself off. He feels bad for trying to put the blame on Clover. That’s natural.

Is it cool if CRWBY is trying to frame that as right? Fuck no. But the fact that Qrow is feeling it, is expressing it, is struggling with it back and forth? There is nothing wrong with that.

Hell. Qrow even being able to say that it was his fault in some way, that he chose wrong in working with Tyrian, but then also stand firm in that he did not actually kill Clover, and apparently this is not the first time he’s said that. It might not be perfect. But the fact that he can even be there at this point is huge.

I have said nearly exactly that same speech. I said and thought things in the first week, even months, of my grief, that, even at the time, I knew were selfish. Were making everything about me. I hated myself for it. But I couldn’t stop it. And If I had tried? I wouldn’t have processed everything. I would have chastised myself for feeling things that I thought were wrong to feel. That’s not how you process grief. It’s how you get stuck in it.

But the way Qrow looks at the pin? The way he pulls his thumb over it. The weak little laugh. The way he rushes to hide it. The fact that the first time we see him really asserting himself and his innocence is when Harriet threatens to take it from him.

I know all of that. That exact expression, movement.

He is so close to breaking. And he’s Qrow. He’s self conscious, self hating, isolating, Qrow. Talking about how this just confirms his own ideas of his position in relationships, his own fears about the danger of his semblance? That’s easy. That’s normal. It hurts like shit, but it’s manageable, he’s done it plenty of times before. Now it’s just a bit more raw.

But flat out talking about the entire loss that was Clover? About their bond ,and who Clover was as a person, and his potential, his future? The loss that Clover experienced in having his life cut short?

Maybe I’m shamelessly projecting again. But I truly do not believe that Qrow could manage to think, let alone talk, about that right this moment, and not completely break down. Which he knows he can’t afford to do yet.

Talking about himself. About his semblance and what Clover meant to him in that regard. Is painful. It hurts. It’s heartbreaking. But it’s familiar.

It’s angry. It’s small weak laughs because you are nowhere even close to okay but you can’t be as broken as you really are right now, so you’ve just got to stick it out.

Qrow is Qrow. Regardless of whether the writers pull this off appropriately or not, I have no doubt that this man understands, and has thought long and hard, about autonomy. About the tragedy of how death strips every last shred of it from a person. About the cruelty of someone’s death not even being seen as about them.

But right this moment, he can’t focus on that. There’s too much still to do. To worry about. To protect.

Talking about Clover? Just as Clover?

Facing that unfairness, that loss of autonomy, that stolen future (whether or not that future involved Qrow)? That is an entirely different kind of pain.

I’m four years removed from my loss and I still can’t think about that too much because it’s physically painful. It’s irreconcilable. I can joke and laugh and be crass about how empty I worry my life will always be without Emma. But thinking, talking, about what I feel when I just sit with the fact that she’s not just not here with me, but she’s gone. All the things she never got to do or be or feel. The crushing cruelty of her having no say in how her story ended, or how she is remembered. I have made talking about my grief my career. And that is still something I have no words for. Thinking about it in those first few days? Is a large part of why I don’t remember so much of that time. It was too painful, so I just blocked it out.

I said things. I thought things. I believed things. That were not fair. That were more about me and my pain than Emma. Hell, I know there were moments I was angry, and there wasn’t even anyone to try to blame for what happened. It was ugly emotion after ugly emotion. Bitterness piled upon bitterness. But that was part of the process.

My point is. I totally understand if this speech makes you nervous. If you can’t trust the writers to turn it around into something good, that doesn’t frame it as Clover’s fault, or as Clover only being important to Qrow because of his semblance.

But please know, that what Qrow actually said? Even if he was starting to blame Clover. Even if he was focusing only on how it hurt him because of his semblance. That is a natural part of grieving. It doesn’t matter if it would be an awful outlook for him to have at the end of everything.

He’s not at the end. He’s processing.

And outright saying that him saying that the semblance thing is what ‘really stings’, or being angry that Clover didn’t just listen to him, or anything else, is wrong and uncaring, isn’t fair.

It might not be the right perspective. It might be blatantly wrong and unfair and self absorbed. But that’s okay. He’s not callous for that.

His feelings about Clover, his respect for Clover, his grief over Clover’s death and the loss of his autonomy? None of that is diminished by him having moments where he wants to blame Clover, or where he focuses more on how this hurts him than how unfair it is for Clover. (again. I’m talking about just the surface of him saying this, not the intent and eventual narrative the writers have in doing it this way).

I just want people to be careful as they talk about this. Because it’s valid. And both sides are valid in multiple ways.

But please. Be careful in how you show your dislike for what you feel/fear the writers are going to do, and how you frame the issues with what Qrow said.

Grief is an incredibly isolating thing. And when it’s fresh it’s so easy to feel horrible, to literally hate yourself, for the thoughts you have while processing your grief.

We all want this to be handled properly, and we all are nervous about how bad it could be if it isn’t. But the last thing we need is people saying that Qrow is wrong or selfish for feeling and expressing what he is feeling, while he processes something so overwhelming and complicated as everything that is going on right now.

It’s not fair to Qrow, but more importantly, it’s hurtful for everyone watching who has dealt with or is still dealing with these unpleasant, often shameful and seemingly vilified aspects of grief.

There is no wrong or right way to grieve. There is nothing wrong with you for thinking things you normally wouldn’t, or for focusing on your own pain. The ugly parts of your grief do not mean you don’t care about the person you lost enough.

Just remember that the concern here should be about how the writers intend to use this speech.

Not that Qrow said what he said. Those feelings can be wrong, unfair, selfish. But there’s nothing wrong with him for feeling that way right now. It doesn’t mean Clover meant anything less to him.

It’s just grief.

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kitkatopinions · 3 years

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I’m probably over thinking/over complicating things but Ironwood and Penny have been really bothering me. It because prior to the moment that destroyed Penny’s arc the show and Ruby were really pushing that Penny not matter her body was human and that’s a very positive I like that especially when it comes to characters of Penny’s nature.

So my problem kicks in when I think of Ironwood. Namely this part in his song:

“What if it's true as they say

That I don't have a heart

That I'm more a machine than a man?”

Like wtf. I mean I “get it” especially with that dumbass line of Winter. But when it’s talked about Ironwood it was always in reference to the fact that his body is half robotic and there for we are meant to see the correlation between his body and his character.?

Put next to Penny’s message that really bothers me. Even more so since Penny gets a “reward” of becoming human, but the writers push that Ironwood sacrificing his arm to stop Watts and replacing it (a medical decision that could be debated given that he wanted to be up and able immediately to handle things not to mention that fact that nerves and muscle are severely fucked up) with a new (uncharacteristically uncovered) prosthetic means that he’s moving away from humanity. This thought has been driving nuts for a week.

I don’t think you’re overthinking at all. The writers have been pretty blatant about what they think of disabled people.

On the topic of James, 1. They wrote their triple amputee character to be coded as losing his humanity. This is suspect from the get go, but writers imo need to be especially careful and sensitive when they display things like villains with prosthetics. CRWBY is not careful and sensitive. 2. They specifically connected the loss of his limb to the loss of his humanity outside of the show, and as you said, his new prosthetic is uncharacteristically uncovered as well, and there were some pointed shots showcasing his arm and emphasizing it before showing Ironwood doing something wrong as well as a shot that particularly bothered me of them having James fall to Winter when his aura broke and then them immediately flashing to a fallen, broken robotic soldier. Tying the loss of someone’s humanity to them losing a limb / gaining a prosthetic in any way is wrong imo. There are better ways to display someone’s loss of humanity than villainizing the loss of his arm, and I don’t care what justifications people have for ‘they just meant to say that he was too impatient to-’ Idc. Tying the loss of humanity to the gaining of a prosthetic is wrong. 3. They never once treated Ironwood’s clear PTSD, history of mental health problems, and trauma with any sympathy, instead spending their time ragging on him for not wanting to feel his pain anymore and condemning him for... Trying to control his emotions. 4. CRWBY also gave him a semblance and explained how it worked by saying he hyper focused, talking about how James’ passive semblance that he can’t control forces him to focus on one single goal and fixate. I’m not disabled, but I do hyper fixate. It’s not something I can control, and to see it used as a justification for evil (in one of my favorite characters in the series who reminded me of my father lol) and being treated as something bad... It doesn’t feel good. I can’t imagine how other people must feel who are much more affected by this than I am. 5. As you say, the writers go out of their way to reference his metal body as being more ‘machine than man’ and make lines about him being heartless. And yeah, I get that he’s an allegory for the ‘Tin Man’ from Wizard of Oz but ffs the Tin Man had always had a heart and I honestly thought that was what they were going for in V3 with Qrow commenting that sometimes he thought James didn’t have a heart and the audience seeing Ironwood’s actions as questionable, only for the entire show to tell us repeatedly that he actually is a caring and good person who’s willing to destroy all the forces he was proud to show off if it means saving lives and was actually pretty freaking blameless in the Fall of Beacon and was super kind to the kids and when the chips were down, Qrow and Glynda both absolutely knew without even questioning that James would never ever willingly hurt the world or fully betray them and had absolutely no hand in the Beacon attack. Like, I’m sorry, but between Penny and Ironwood, season eight is the season of taking well done character allusions and throwing them out the window for the exact opposite moral done incredibly poorly. And anyway, getting off of that rant, making a ‘more machine than man’ sentiment tied around a triple amputee character is incredibly harmful and hurtful to people with disabilities and only propagates the real world stereotypes against people like James.

So, yes, their treatment of Ironwood, his mental health, and specifically his disabilities was so badly done, harmful, incredibly insensitive, and frankly, appalling that it came from grown adult writers in 2019-2021! But, as you point out, it’s not just Ironwood. And here’s where things really get bad for CRWBY. Because Ironwood alone is enough for me to say they were ableist - unintentionally or otherwise - and ought to apologize for the hurt they’ve caused their fans. But when you get into the rest of their treatment of characters with metal prosthetics or non-flesh elements to their body, it becomes a pattern.

Penny’s entire body is removed from her on threat of death, with the justification that it’s hurting her and that her body is just a machine and not part of who she is, contradicting Penny’s earlier themes of self-acceptance and validating her humanity in the body she already had. She then dies by assisted suicide in a way that feels unneeded, after having asked to be killed earlier in the narrative. So many people have talked about how destructive her story became in V8 and how it personally hurt them, especially non-binary people, trans people, autistic people, or disabled people who saw themselves in Penny or saw in her arc something that they could relate to, only to have Penny’s differences stripped away from her, having her conform to normal body standards and have her previous body type invalidated by her friends, and then they had her killed via assisted suicide in an unbelievable way, insisting as well that she never made a choice before she was a flesh-person and couldn’t feel things right. It’s all horribly done, but it’s important to remember that while Ironwood is accused of losing his humanity as he loses a third limb and gets a third prosthetic, Penny’s earlier validation is taken away and is instead only granted and she is only justified as a person when she loses all her ‘nuts and bolts’ and becomes a flesh person. And then she’s killed anyway.

Yang’s prosthetic is the least ill handled, but it is still dismissed as ‘just extra’ despite her former fairly strong arc of coming to terms with her disability and making it a part of her. She casually justifies what’s happening with Penny despite Penny not being in a position of adequate consent. Yang’s trauma and PTSD also vanished when Adam died at the end of season six and in my opinion, that situation was handled very badly.

Maria and Pietro, two other disabled characters, disappeared, left when Amity fell and were not even mentioned iirc since. Not even when Penny is awake, not even when they’re evacuating, not even when Penny is choosing to die. She never brings up her father. And Ruby’s supposed ‘mentor’ who never had an actual narrative role that couldn’t have been filled by Qrow and has had nothing to do since season six even past that is also forgotten out in the tundra and not mentioned again.

The writers go out of their way to have Winter say that because she was just following orders (a statement that contradicts her previous character imo) and pushing down her emotions, she was the real machine, whereas Penny had been human underneath her apparently easily tossed aside and destructive previous metal body. And I don’t know if this means anything, but in that scene where she and Penny meet when Penny is dying and transferring the maiden powers to Winter, Winter is in her V7 character design, instead of wearing her assistive brace. Like I said, I don’t know if I’m reading into that, but with everything else, it feels like an iffy choice.

So yeah. In the past season CRWBY specifically cultivated a pattern of disrespect, dismissal, and villainization of any non-flesh attributes in my opinion. It seems pretty intentional and clear to me, but I’m willing to accept that maybe this was just a wildly bad uneducated mistake. Here’s the thing about that, though, after the Faunus/Racism allegory, the CRWBY writers should’ve learned their lesson and not touched on any real world topics that they weren’t willing to do the research on and treat with the sensitivity and care and respect the topics needed. Their Faunus/Racism allegory was harmful and hurtful and frankly could’ve sunk them in the water, they should’ve learned to put much more care and effort into their work or stayed the hell away from anything that could further spread the negative stereotypes surrounding real world people. But they didn’t learn their lesson and they’ve continued to push harmful narratives with no awareness or sensitivity. I don’t think you’re over-reacting at all, I think this is something that - intentionally written or otherwise - the writers should be called out on, or they’re just going to continue writing harmful narratives.

Also, I am not disabled, many of my opinions on the treatment of these characters comes from posts I’ve seen from many disabled or neurodivergent RWBY fans (or former RWBY fans,) or other people more affected by these narratives - minus the thing I said about Winter appearing without her brace when she talks to Penny, as it was something I just noticed while typing out this post. Since I’m not disabled, I’m not the best person to talk about these things, so if I got anything wrong in this, anyone more affected, please know you can let me know and I can edit and fix.

#rwde #rwby bashing #anti rwby #anti crwby #anti MKEK #rwby hate #if anyone comes in the comments invalidating or justifying I'll block #pro james ironwood #pro Ironwood #ironwood defense

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silvokrent · 4 years

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RWBY Character Analysis: Pietro and Penny Polendina

Up until now I’ve been keeping quiet about my opinions on the newest volume, in no small part because my personal life has been one absurd setback after another, and I haven’t had the energy to engage in fandom meta. If you do want to know what my current opinion of RWBY is, go over to @itsclydebitches blog, search through her #rwby-recaps tag, and read every single one. At this point, her metas are basically an itemized list of all my grievances with the show. I highly recommend you check ’em out.

Or, if you don’t feel like reading several hours’ worth of recaps, then go find a sheet of paper, give yourself a papercut, and then squeeze a lemon into it. That should give you an accurate impression of my feelings.

In truth, I have a lot to say about the show, particularly how I think CRWBY has mishandled the plot, characters, tone, and intended message of their series. And while I enjoy dissecting RWBY with what amounts to mad scientist levels of glee, I think plenty of other folks have already discussed V7′s and V8′s various issues in greater depth and with far more eloquence. Any contribution I could theoretically make at this point would be somewhat redundant.

That being said, I’d like to talk about something that’s been bothering me for a while, which (to my knowledge) no one else in the fandom has brought up. (And feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.)

Today’s topic of concern is Pietro Polendina, and his relationship with Penny.

And because I’m absolutely certain this post is going to be controversial and summon anonymous armchair critics to fill my inbox with sweary claptrap, I may as well just come out and say it:

Pietro Polendina, as he’s currently portrayed in the show, is an inherently abusive parental figure.

Let me take a second to clarify that I don’t think it was RWBY’s intention to portray Pietro that way. Much like other aspects of the show, a lot of nuance is often lost when discussing the difference between intention versus implementation, or telling versus showing. It’s what happens when a writer tries to characterize a person one way, but in execution portrays them in an entirely different light. Compounding this problem is what feels like a series of rather myopic writing decisions that started as early as Volume 2, concerning Penny’s sense of agency, and how the canon would bear out the implications of an autonomous being grappling with her identity. It’s infuriating that the show has spent seven seasons staunchly refusing to ask any sort of ethical questions surrounding her existence, only to then—with minimal setup—give us Pietro’s “heartfelt” emotional breakdown when he has to choose between “saving” Penny or “sacrificing” her for the greater good.

Yeah, no thanks.

If we want to talk about why this moment read as hollow and insincere, we need to first make sure everyone’s on the same page.

Spoilers for V8.E5 - “Amity.” Let’s not waste any time.

In light of the newest episode and its—shall we say—questionable implications, I figured now was the best time to bring it up while the thoughts were still fresh in my mind. (Because nothing generates momentum quite like frothing-at-the-mouth rage.)

The first time we’re told anything about Pietro, it comes from an exchange between Penny and Ruby. From V2.E2 - “A Minor Hiccup.”

Penny: I've never been to another kingdom before. My father asked me not to venture out too far, but... You have to understand, my father loves me very much. He just worries a lot.

Ruby: Believe me, I know the feeling. But why not let us know you were okay?

Penny: I…was asked not to talk to you. Or Weiss. Or Blake. Or Yang. Anybody, really.

Ruby: Was your dad that upset?

Penny: No, it wasn’t my father.

The scene immediately diverts our attention to a public unveiling of the AK-200. A hologram of James Ironwood is presenting this newest model of Atlesian Knight to a crowd of enthusiastic spectators, along with the Atlesian Paladin, a piloted mech. During the demonstration, James informs his audience that Atlas’ military created them with the intent of removing people from the battlefield and mitigating casualties (presumably against Grimm).

Penny is quickly spotted by several soldiers, and flees. Ruby follows, and in the process the two are nearly hit by a truck. Penny’s display of strength draws a crowd and prompts her to retreat into an alley, where Ruby learns that Penny isn’t “a real girl.”

This scene continues in the next episode, “Painting the Town…”

Penny: Most girls are born, but I was made. I’m the world’s first synthetic person capable of generating an Aura. [Averts her gaze.] I’m not real…

After Ruby assures her that no, you don’t have to be organic in order to have personhood, Penny proceeds to hug her with slightly more force than necessary.

Ruby: [Muffled noise of pain.] I can see why your father would want to protect such a delicate flower!

Penny: [Releases Ruby.] Oh, he’s very sweet! My father’s the one that built me! I’m sure you would love him.

Ruby: Wow. He built you all by himself?

Penny: Well, almost! He had some help from Mr. Ironwood.

Ruby: The general? Wait, is that why those soldiers were after you?

Penny: They like to protect me, too!

Ruby: They don't think you can protect yourself?

Penny: They're not sure if I'm ready yet. One day, it will be my job to save the world, but I still have a lot left to learn. That's why my father let me come to the Vytal Festival. I want to see what it's like in the rest of the world, and test myself in the Tournament.

Their conversation is interrupted by the sound of the approaching soldiers from earlier. Despite Ruby’s protests, Penny proceeds to yeet her into the nearby dumpster, all while reassuring her that it’s to keep Ruby out of trouble, not her. When the soldiers arrive, they ask her if she’s okay, then proceed to lightly scold her for causing a scene. Penny’s told that her father “isn’t going to be happy about this,” and is then politely asked (not ordered; asked) to let them escort her back.

Let’s take a second to break down these events.

When these two episodes first aired, the wording and visuals (“No, it wasn’t my father,” followed by the cutaway to James unveiling the automatons) implied that James was the one forbidding her from interacting with other people. It’s supposed to make you think that James is being restrictive and harsh, while Pietro is meant as a foil—the sweet, but cautious father figure. But here’s the thing: both of these depictions are inaccurate, and frankly, Penny’s the one at fault here. Penny blew her cover within minutes of interacting with Ruby—a scenario that Penny was responsible for because she was sneaking off without permission. Penny is a classified, top-secret military project, as made clear by the fact that she begs Ruby to not say anything to anyone. Penny is in full acknowledgement that her existence, if made public, could cause massive issues for her (something that she’s clearly experienced before, if her line, “You’re taking this extraordinarily well,” is anything to go by).

But here’s the thing—keeping Penny on a short leash wasn’t a unilateral decision made by James. That was Pietro’s choice as well. “My father asked me not to venture out too far,” “Your father isn’t going to be happy about this”—as much as this scene is desperately trying to put the onus on James for Penny’s truant behavior, Pietro canonically shares that blame. And Penny (to some extent) is in recognition of the fact that she did something wrong.

Back in Volumes 1 – 3, before the series butchered James’ characterization, these moments were meant as pretty clever examples of foreshadowing and subverting the controlling-military-general trope. This scene is meant to illustrate that yes, Penny is craving social interaction outside of military personnel as a consequence of being hidden, but that hiding her is also a necessity. It’s a complicated situation with no easy answer, but it’s also something of a necessary evil (as Penny’s close call with the truck and her disclosing that intel to Ruby are anything to go by).

Let’s skip ahead to Volume 7, shortly after Watts tampered with the drone footage and framed her for several deaths. In V7.E7 - “Worst Case Scenario,” a newscaster informs us that people in Atlas and Mantle want Penny to be deactivated, despite James’ insistence that the footage was doctored and Penny didn’t go on a killing spree. The public’s unfavorable opinion of Penny—a sentiment that Jacques of all people embodies when he brings it up in V7.E8—reinforces V2’s assessment of why keeping her secret was necessary. Not only is her existence controversial because Aura research is still taboo, but people are afraid that a mechanical person with military-grade hardware could be hacked and weaponized against them. (Something which Volume 8 actually validates when James has Watts take control of her in the most recent episode.)

But I digress.

We’re taken to Pietro’s lab, where Penny is hooked up to some sort of recharge/docking station. Ruby, Weiss, and Maria look on in concern while the machine is uploading the visual data from her systems. There’s one part of their conversation I want to focus on in particular:

Pietro: When the general first challenged us to find the next breakthrough in defense technology, most of my colleagues pursued more obvious choices. I was one of the few who believed in looking inward for inspiration.

Ruby: You wanted a protector with a soul.

Pietro: I did. And when General Ironwood saw her, he did too. Much to my surprise, the Penny Project was chosen over all the other proposals.

Allow me to break down their conversation so we can fully appreciate what he’s actually saying.

The Penny Project was picked as the candidate for the next breakthrough in defense technology.

Pietro wanted a protector with a SOUL.

In RWBY, Aura and souls are one of the defining characteristics of personhood. Personhood is central to Penny’s identity and internal conflict (particularly when we consider that she’s based on Pinocchio). That’s why Penny accepts Ruby’s reassurances that she’s a real person. That’s why she wants to have emotional connections with others.

What makes that revelation disturbing is when you realize that Pietro knowingly created a child soldier.

Look, there’s no getting around this. Pietro fully admits that he wanted to create a person—a human being—a fucking child—as a "defense technology” to throw at the Grimm (and by extension, Salem). Everything, from the language he uses, to the mere fact that he entered Penny in the Vytal Tournament as a proving ground where she could “test [her]self,” tells us that he either didn’t consider or didn’t care about the implications behind his proposal.

When you break it all down, this is what we end up with:

“Hey, I have an idea: Why don’t we make a person, cram as many weapons as we can fit into that person, and then inform her every day for the rest of her life that she was built for the sole purpose of fighting monsters, just so we don’t have to risk the lives of others. Let’s then take away anything remotely resembling autonomy, minimize her interactions with people, and basically indoctrinate her into thinking that this is something she wants for herself. Oh, and in case she starts to raise objections, remind her that I donated part of my soul to her. If we make her feel guilty about this generous sacrifice I made so she could have the privilege of existing, she won’t question our motives. Next, let’s give her a taste of freedom by having her fight in a gladiatorial blood sport so that we can prove our child soldier is an effective killer. And then, after she’s brutally murdered on international television, we can rebuild her and assign her to protecting an entire city that’s inherently prejudiced against her, all while I brood in my lab about how sad I am.”

Holy fuck. Watts might be a morally bankrupt asshole, but at least his proposal didn’t hinge on manufacturing state-of-the-art living weapons. They should have just gone with his idea.

(Which, hilariously enough, they did. Watts is the inventor of the Paladins—Paladins which, I’ll remind you, were invented so the army could remove people from the battlefield. You know, people. Kind of like what Penny is.)

Do you see why this entire scene might have pissed me off? Even if the show didn’t intend for any of this to be the case, when you think critically about the circumstances there’s no denying the tacit implications.

To reiterate, V8.E5 is the episode where Pietro says, and I quote:

“I don’t care about the big picture! I care about my daughter! I lost you before. Are you asking me to go through that again? No. I want the chance to watch you live your life.”

Oh, yeah? And what life is that? The one where she’s supposed to kill Grimm and literally nothing else? You do realize that she died specifically because you made her for the purpose of fighting, right?

No one, literally no one, was holding a gun to Pietro’s head and telling him that he had to build a living weapon. That was his idea. He chose to do that.

Remember when Cinder said, “I don’t serve anyone! And you wouldn’t either, if you weren’t built that way.” She…basically has a point. Penny has never been given the option to explore the world in a capacity where she wasn’t charged with defending it by her father. We know she doesn’t have many friends, courtesy of Ironwood dissuading her against it in V7. But I’m left with the troubling realization that the show (and the fandom), in their crusade to vilify James, are ignoring the fact that Pietro is also complicit in this behavior by virtue of being her creator. If we condemn the man that prevents Penny from having relationships, then what will we do to the man who forced her into that existence in the first place?

Being her “father” has given him a free pass to overlook the ethics of having a child who was created with a pre-planned purpose. How the hell did the show intend for Pietro to reconcile “I want you to live your life” with “I created you so you’d spend your life defending the world”? It viscerally reminds me of the sort of narcissistic parents who have kids because they want to pass on the family name, or continue their bloodline, or have live-in caregivers when they get older, only on a larger and much more horrific scale. And that’s fucked up.

Now, I’m not saying I’m against having a conflict like this in the show. In fact, I’d love to have a character who has to grapple with her own humanity while questioning the environment she grew up in. Penny is a character who is extremely fascinating because of all the potential she represents—a young woman who through a chance encounter befriends a group of strangers, and over time, is exposed to freedoms and friendships she was previously denied. Slowly, she begins to unlearn the mindset she was indoctrinated with, and starts to petition for agency and autonomy. Pietro is forced to confront the fact that what he did was traumatic and cruel, and that his love for her doesn’t erase the harm he unintentionally subjected her to, nor does it change the fact that he knowingly burdened a person with a responsibility she never consented to. There’s a wealth of character growth and narrative payoff buried here, but like most things in RWBY, it was either underdeveloped or not thought through all the way.

The wholesome father-daughter relationship the show wants Pietro and Penny to have is fundamentally contradicted by the nature of her existence, and the fact that no one (besides the villains) calls attention to it. I’d love for them to have that sort of dynamic, but the show had to do more to earn it. Instead, it’ll forever be another item on RWBY’s ever-growing list of disappointments—

Because Pietro’s remorse is more artificial than Penny could ever hope to be.

#rwby #rwby volume 8 #rwby spoilers #rwby thought dump #my posts #i speak #rwby meta #pietro polendina #penny polendina #james ironwood #arthur watts #ruby rose #rwby worldbuilding #rwde

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