I don’t think the Rat Grinders are irredeemable or whatever but I DO think a lot of people are putting the onus on Brennan specifically to redeem them or “write them a redemption arc”, like yes it is a show and there has to be character narratives especially for foils to your PCs, but ttrpgs are fundamentally a /collaborative/ storytelling medium, the thing about DnD is that the players have to invest in the NPCs, they have to give them the time and space to redeem themselves through interacting with them, the reason we see characters like Aelwyn and Ragh get a redemption arc & change and develop is because the Bad Kids went out of their way to talk to them (In Aelwyn’s case Adaine had to commit to redeeming her sister on multiple occaisions). Lets not forget there have been other teen villains, like Penelope, Dayne and Biz who the Bad Kids just straight up killed in combat, who didn’t get redeemed. Do I think it’s fully possible that the Rat Grinders can experience redemption/forgiveness and it would be narratively satisfying? Absolutely! But, imo, a lot of the narrative thrust behind wether a character gets redemption is in the hands of the players, and it would be a little bit unsatisfying if being freed from their rage crystals immediately gave them all full personality transplants (like removing all of Kipperlily’s anger and ambition for example)
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People will often say, 'If you could be with Lincoln for dinner, what would you want to ask him? What would be the unanswered question?'
And I know I should be asking him, 'OK, suppose you had not been killed, how would you have dealt with the South? How would you have dealt with Reconstruction and all the controversies that arose?'
But I know that if I really had him for dinner one night, I would simply ask him, 'Tell me a story, Mr. Lincoln.' Because then I would see him coming alive.
He laughed so hard when he told one of his funny stories, his eyes would twinkle. And then I'd know that the Lincoln I knew -- who was somehow able in the worst days of the war to dispel the anxiety of his Cabinet members by his humor and his life-affirming sense of storytelling -- then I’d know I would have seen him alive.
-Doris Kearns Goodwin, Presidential Episode 16
This was where I had to stop the Lincoln episode at the end of my commute, and as I pulled into the parking lot I said to myself, "Wow, that's lovely." A little schmaltzy, perhaps, but I think it gets to the core of why people study history. Sure, there's the intellectual impulse to analyze and understand events with the benefit of hindsight, but deep down, the heart of historical study is a desire to connect with people. To bridge the gulf of time and space and get to know people despite the fact that they lived in a completely different century.
History's not just dry lists of dates and names and theories. It's people. It's personalities. It's quirks and memories and stories. It's knowing that a historical figure isn't just a face on a monument, or a source of information, but a guy who can tell really funny stories. And I wanted to share this quote because it really understands the humanity of history in a way I rarely see expressed.
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Shit like that is why Tangerine should've stayed in Ericson! She must take care of her leg but nooooooo! People in Ericson was mean to me :'(! I'm not surprised she caught a fever considering she's ignoring her wound. Sorry for sounding so bitter.
It's a big issue with the "Clementine left Ericson willingly" plot point in this trilogy. Aside from it just being out of character for her based on what we see in TWDG, it lessens the amount of sympathy we're willing to give as readers.
If she was forced to leave Ericson, whether because they kicked her out or it was under attack, she would have no choice. She'd have to leave, and then these situations wouldn't feel like her fault, y'know? You're more likely to see her suffer, fall down, or get an infection, and feel bad because it's not her fault, she was dealt a shitty hand.
But this angle of her leaving because she was unhappy or because she felt like a burden... she still left the safety of place where she could've properly healed from an amputation. Losing her leg isn't just another injury you can be like, "Oh just keep off it, it'll heal." That's a lot of healing and physical/emotional trauma to get through and she would've had a better chance of it if she stayed with AJ and Ericson.
Since she left, we're kinda just sitting here saying, "Yeah, Clementine... you have to take care of your leg. You have to wash it. You can't be running around on it all the time while it's still healing. You're going to be more prone to infection, and in the zombie apocalypse, that's super not great. What were you thinking? You should have stayed at Ericson. You should not be here at this ski lodge or running through the woods."
A lot of problems with the story and characterization stem from that decision and unfortunately, it's weakening the story.
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I’m not exactly well versed in British culture, so I might be a bit off base here, but it might help some of your US followers if they frame the pervasiveness of classism within the context of the American south.
There is a very common and socially accepted assumption that southerners are stupid, backwards, toothless hillbillies with dumb accents.
Its often played off like a joke, but the insidiousness of it is real and harmful. I don’t think it’s too dissimilar to what you experience, either, though perhaps not quite as pointed or extreme.
When I travel, I do my best to flatten my accent so people don’t pick up on it as easily. As soon as everyone finds out where I’m from, I’m made into a joke. It fucking sucks.
i dont know enough about the american south and i would like to reiterate that despite similarities our class systems are still so different that blanket-comparing them isn't gonna cut it, but yes this sounds exactly right!! like class over here isn't just a money thing, in fact more often than not that's a very small part of it. it's dictated by income and region and accent and what school you went to and what your family do and who you know even down to what you wear and what supermarket you shop at, and if you dont meet the top marks in ALL of these then you will experience classism at some point
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Hey! I was summoned by the tags you put under my post bc I also very much enjoy discussing ethics. I might make this into its own post so I'll try to not elaborate too much...
I think that I can't just decide for everyone if the difference between doing good for the sake of goodness or in order to save oneself matters, but for me, in most cases, including Dazai's case, it doesn't.
I like to believe that morality is a choice one can decide to make, and I don't think it's fair to take that away from them, regardless on how they might feel on the inside. It's a wonderful thing to act morally because it's your "natural" tendency, but I think people also have the right to do so deliberately, for a reason that they choose, without their choice being minimised. They're two different processes for sure, but if the outcome is good, then the action is a good action, and, if being moral is a choice, then I don't think I have the right to decide that only one intention or emotion that will lead there is good enough.
Also, doing good for your own sake and for the sake of others are mutually exclusive at all. One feeds the other, and if we were to put every person's actions under such scrutiny, we would ultimately run in circles.
So, for people outside the story, I would say that the debate does matter, but for the sake of the people involved, it doesn't, because the outcome is the same, especially since Dazai is so opaque as a character, and what he really feels about the things he does is so hard to read, so at the end of the day all most of them experience is his actions.
[Post this is referring to] Thank you for your elaboration, I loved hearing your opinion on the matter!!! That's close to consequentialism, isn't it? The consequences of one's actions, how much good they produced, are telling of it being morally right or wrong. I don't necessarily agree, but that's definitely a valid way to see it!!! I personally believe one's intentions are the most relevant aspect to take into account when judging whether and action is ethically rightful or not. Note that that is judging the moral of the action itself, and not giving a judgement on the person; people can have a million reasons to act selfishly, and in my very “humans are always inherently good” worldview more often than not it's caused by society rather than an actual preference to not be altruistic. But that doesn't change the fact that even a good action, if it isn't moved by good intentions, won't ever be passable of being morally right to me. Besides, then, wouldn't the other way round work to? Someone well intentioned, who's however incompetent, and ends up with their actions putting more bad in the world– as long as they're acting with a true desire to help others for the sake of it, their actions can't be considered morally wrong for me.
To clarify, with reference to your ask; I don't think people who do something for selfish reasons, and end up doing good, are morally rightful; but if they decide to do good, well, isn't that a well-intentioned aim itself? Then I think they stop being selfish to the extension that they consciously decide they're going to do good. That's not morally reprinandable at all.
Now, regarding Dazai... Honestly, I don't think Dazai is a good person. Because he never meant to do good for the sake of it. But now, the thing is, I don't think anyone in bsd is meant to be interpreted as good or evil– nobody, not Atsushi, not Mori, no one. When it comes to bsd– I do think bsd expresses a more or less nihilist worldview. And I know pretty much everyone else disagrees with me on this, I know, I'm sorry. But I do think there lies an undergoing message that good and bad are ultimately the same, and equally meaningless– it's there in Oda saying “Neither good nor evil mean much to you”, it's there in the way it makes you root for mafiosi like they were the good guys, it's there in the way Dazai never even considered to make amends for the bad things he's done (because they were never bad to begin with, because good and bad mean nothing anyway), it's there in the way it constantly shows good people doing bad and bad people doing good in a way that basically equalises them. To me there's really no point in discussing whether Dazai is good, because he is most evidently not, but that's only because he was never meant to be interpreted as such to begin with. Please refer to this post for further details; it's not surprising at all that Dazai switching over to the “good side” didn't come with a radical change of heart, and that he basically stayed the same, because how could he become good when that's no different than being evil, and those both mean nothing anyway?
And I know most people see bsd's core theme as finding a reason to live, and maybe it is, but even then I think that wouldn't be by denying its nihilism, but rather accepting it and finding a reason to live in spite of it: to me all of bsd really sums up in “that, at least, is a little more beautiful”.
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actually the fact that Heathers is technically a comedy — both in the classical sense, and in the marketed genre as a dark comedy — makes it sadder. because it's played for funnies, for the drama, for the fatalistic ridiculousness and facial expressions and ironically timed theme music. everyone is a caricature, except for Veronica. she's the one human in a cast of Muppets. and she is very, very real. and she is very, very broken. and because it's a comedy, because it's almost a parody, the weight of the plot is largely ignored. there's a tragic shade to it, in opposition to its narrative function, because Veronica is expected to play into that narrative. she's the real one, and the narrative continues to treat her like a cartoon, like a Muppet. but she's the human, and she's not given the weight of that. she's a final girl, the one left to tell the story, but the narrative doesn't allow for her. the narrative insists on standing by its genre, giving a hollow laugh and fading to black with the comical image of a girl lighting a cigarrette off of a suicide bomb. it's intentionally a John Hughes film gone sour, and the upturned ending is a facade. Heathers is a comedy, yes, but there's a tinge of tragedy to it as well, if you just look beyond the surface
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