#don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with fanon....actually that's not true

[wiitzend]

this is gonna sound mean but people who make everything about their diagnosis/sexuality/mental illness/race etc., and shoehorn this one fact about themselves into every single conversation no matter how unrelated are insufferable. it's especially annoying when they do this in fandom spaces. they think that 'x character' or 'x show' HAS to be directly related to this one label about themselves despite their never being any actual canon evidence to support this (because they can't just accept the fact that not every character or piece of media has to be a carbon copy of themselves in order to be good or relatable), and then get angry when people don't agree. if you don't agree w/ them suddenly you have random weirdos crawling out of the woodwork calling you a bigot and unfortunately people like this are everywhere. it's so insane to me.

[nekropsii]

Ok, don't get me wrong, i think your opinions/analysis have arguments, so you have reasons.

But i can't stop thinking, when you talk about fandom not interpreting things correctly, mostly dancestors, it feels like:

Fanon: i love the dancestors! They are all so nice!

You: aCTUALLY, they are all ASSHOLES, except mituna, latula, and porrim. The rest is crap and here is a long and detailed list with why:

And a the end of the list :but this is what makes them great as characters, because they have a narrative function to it!

Yep. And I stand by that. Firmly. What’s the problem here?

The Alpha Trolls - not the Dancestors, that’s literally every character in Homestuck - are largely not good people. Calling them nice is blatantly false and outright disregards almost every single scrap of text we are given. Mituna’s a good dude in a bad situation full of people he doesn’t really like, as is Damara. Latula’s literally never done anything wrong. Porrim’s just a regular person. Aranea’s pretty nice, and her actions during Game Over were a result of eternities of torment and desperation to be seen + heard, and is therefore not fully representative of her. Meenah’s cute, but a major fuckup that has committed some absolutely egregious crimes. That’s it, really.

The Alpha Trolls are Good Characters and (mostly) Bad People.

Are you maybe experiencing some kind of difficulty in understanding that there’s a difference between a character and a person? Because a fuck ton of people in fandom definitely do have that problem, for some reason.

A character is a plot device. It is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. A person is a person. The difference between a bad person and a bad character is that a bad character isn’t fulfilling the role and function they are supposed to perform, and a bad person is just a shitty guy I do not want to be around. Conflating the two leads to bad analysis, and is also a primary contributor to apologetics, and all those god awful fanonizations that sand down every edge the character has until they’re pleasant people and totally unrecognizable. People think they have to like a character as a human being in order to like them as a character. Which is completely untrue, and is totally naïve to the fact that villains are popular for a reason.

A character can be a bad person and a good character - they fill their role and serve their purpose very well, but would absolutely suck to be around. Meenah, Vriska, Cronus, and Caliborn all fit under that label. This isn’t always a villain role, but it does tend to get taken up by villains. And anti-heroes, of course. Vriska is there, after all

A character can be a good person but a bad character - they’d be pleasant to talk to in real life, but they suck at fulfilling their narrative purpose. Just about every fanon version of a character is this. It’s more of a fanfiction thing than an actual real literature thing.

I am the biggest fan + defender of the Alpha Trolls you can find. The Alpha Trolls largely are not good people, but they serve their function very well. This is not a controversial statement because it is entirely true. Fanon is dogshit and totally wrong, 100% of the time. This is a hill I’m willing to die on because I’m literally just correct. There is not a scrap of text on this planet that you could procure to say Cronus Ampora is a good person - anything you could scrounge up is just baseless fanfiction and total garbage.

I do not see the confusion, nor do I understand the point you’re trying to make. These are facts that can and do coexist, quite regularly. Even within Homestuck. Again, Vriska exists. What now?

[cboffshore]

what you say about Jay's condition in the skybound fics is actually very true. 90% of the fandom portrays him as falling at the slightest degree of pain, bursting into tears and begging when in canon Jay NEVER cries or begs in all his torture with Nadakhan. All he does at most is complain silently, and continue talking shit about everyone

we actually need more fics of Jay being a little shit that fights dirty, cheats, and deals damage using the meanest ways to defend himself and attack even when he's getting his ass kicked. I just feel like a lot of fics don't really embody the fact that Jay didn't sit back and let them torture him while he cried, but he actually fought back, he actually continued to be stubborn to the point that nothing Nadakhan did worked.

You're so right and you should absolutely say it. I am not the biggest Jay enjoyer (don't get me wrong, I like him, but I'm not winning the Jay Fan contest any day soon), but I particularly enjoy his arc in Skybound and how that persistence plays into it. Seeing it get put to the side in favor of whatever all these crying sessions are trying to do honestly makes me wonder - do people who write this flavor of sadboy Jay actually enjoy/appreciate Skybound to the same degree that inspires so many of us to write about it, or are they just there for the angst openings? Which does Jay such a huge disservice. I'm still in awe whenever Jay gets that Target ball sized ball and chain slammed into his chest and still gets back up. This is the guy everyone's relegating to weep in a corner? He's throwing stray insults at every opening and then some and the popular fanon consensus is, "yeah, he's completely broken, send him to the pit"??

Now, don't get me wrong, the occasional show of vulnerability is great. Key word there is occasional. To be fair, I would likely be just as unsettled as I am by the sobfest trend if Jay just did Bugs Bunny shenanigans the entire time without ever cracking. It's about balance! Show that development off! Have him get tougher over time! A strategically placed breakdown or slip-of-the-tongue beg can work so well, it's just got to be handled carefully. (Tried it with Nya once in my own Skybound fics, and can confirm: watch where and when it happens and you can say a lot about whoever does it. Granted, I have never tried it with Jay, but same principle!) Sure, let him do it - but not for the sake of doing it. What would Jay think after the fact? How would the crew's reactions affect him? (Fun idea: would he weaponize it, like the back pain scene where he's literally grinning the whole time? Would he deliberately turn on the waterworks often enough that if it ever happens for real, nobody tries to take advantage of it?)

I didn't mean to go on for that long, but yeah! It's a frustrating topic, and I really wish I knew where it came from. Thanks for dropping in and letting me ramble!

[lemotmo]

I'm going to try and approach this a bit differently. We have all been in a position where we desperately wanted something from a show. We can all relate to the desire for something you love to become canon. I still fret about whether or not they'll actually give us Buddie. Yes it has been sign posted but it's been sign posted for years and we're still waiting. Anyway I say that part to say this next part. They are sign posted. The canon signs are there and there everywhere. None of it is made up from nothing. Yes there are headcanons but that's true of every ship. But most of the headcanons have canon scenes that they stem from. The BT stuff is all headcanon. I keep seeing gifs of Buck with gifs of Lou from other acting rolls and them being tagged as bucktommy. Those gifs have nothing to do with 911 and aren't Tommy. None of it is based on canon. It has all come from their cameo conversations with Lou. And that genuinely dumbfounds me. Because now I see less and less Buck and it's increasingly Tommy centered.

Buck is the character the show cares about and they know that. I don't know enough about the SWAT theory to speak to it's truth or not but the timing of its renewal and him going 911 dark does somewhat feed into the rumor. I don't know, it's bad enough so many of them have become horrible towards Eddie but now they're starting to change who Buck canonically is to fit their headcanons of Tommy (the whole damsel in distress nonsense enrages me). And while I understand the desire to push for what you love, basic knowledge of the show has to play into your expectations at some point. It will be interesting(terrifying) to see how they react when his arc finishes, and he himself stated it was an arc(hello people he said this) so I'm just forever dumbfounded as to how we got here and I'm someone who genuinely tried to see where they're coming from.

*sigh* sorry for the length of this ask. Your blog is lovely.

Yes Nonny. Yes! All of this! This has been on my mind for so long now and you managed to summarize it so beautifully.

I simply do not get how we got here. A couple of months ago, everything was great in this fandom. We had no great expectations of Buddie canon, but we were happy to be on ABC so we could maybe get some more Buddie scenes. And we did get them. Season 7 was great for Buddie.

Unfortunately it also brought along Tommy. I was and still am thrilled for Buck being revealed as being bisexual. It's wonderful! And the initial thrill of it was exciting. I immediately started tying this in to Eddie. A lot of us in the Buddie fandom have long since theorised that, as soon as one of them would come out, the other would follow because it would be the only thing to make sense. Buck and Eddie have both been queer-coded for so long now and finally we would see some movement in their story.

Imagine my surprise when suddenly some people decided that Tommy was the best thing that had ever happened to Buck. It was all Tommy this, Tommy that, Tommy with the sun shining out of his ***. I was so confused. Even some of my Buddie mutuals who I had known for years, just kind of gave up on Buddie and started worshipping at the altar of Tommy Kinard.

And the fact that Lou started spouting his headcanons in those cameos definitely didn't help either. Some people really believe in those headcanons.

And listen, nothing against headcanons. I have some of my own. But there is a reason why they are called 'head'canons. It's because they are things you see and recognise in a character, but they aren't discussed in the show, so they aren't 'canon'. They remain 'fanon'.

Now, don't get me wrong, ship and let ship. But there is a difference between normal 'shipping' and liking the pair, and the total craziness the Tommy-hype has become.

I know a lot of people that are multi-shippers and I have mutuals who like BT as a transitional relationship, but ultimately still want Buddie. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the people who suddenly started talking down on Eddie as if he was treating Buck badly and how he was a bad father. And how, even if he were queer, Buck would never choose him over Tommy. Where did that come from? They didn't say that before. Why now?

And I ask the question: What is so special about Tommy? I keep seeing people that say Buck is in the best relationship ever. HOW? WHAT? WHERE? What do these people see that I don't see?

We have seen Tommy in a handful of scenes. In all of those scenes he has been dismissive, disrespectful and frankly not very interesting. There is no chemistry at all with Buck either. I mean, if there had been some palpable chemistry I might have liked it more, but it just seems as if Lou is going through the motions in those kisses. If they are such a great couple, where are the little couple things? Where is the handholding? The little in-jokes? Nothing! I mean, Oliver does his best to keep their scenes somewhat afloat, but Lou is clearly not even trying. So I truly do not understand this strange -almost obsessive and gatekeeping- behaviour when it comes to Lou and Tommy.

It's obvious-- and anyone with eyes can see this from miles away-- that Tommy is a narrative device to have Buck explore his bisexuality. Every single thing in the show, but also around the show, is pointing in that direction.

Think about it. There was no promotion whatsoever for BT, only for bi Buck and Buddie. They had one abysmal interview where they talked for 2 seconds about BT and Oliver looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there. They have given Tommy no screentime whatsoever. He is only there when it is required for Buck's storyline. It practically screams: plot device.

Then we have Ryan giving interviews where he, once again, talks about Buck being a co-parent and how Eddie will explore himself in season 8. How he will push that refresh button and he will ultimately find the partner he needs. All gender neutral by the way.

I mean, look... I admit to having been delulu in the past over small things when it comes to Buddie. What can I say? It's been a long 6 years. But this? This is no longer about being delusional. This is full-blown 'in your face': BUDDIE IS HAPPENING! It's all right there when you look at it logically.

But yes, somehow, we are wrong because our ship isn't canon and it's apparantly homophobic to be against a canon ship?

Which... do these people know what fandom is actually about? It's about fictional people and we want to see these fictional people get interesting story arcs and we want some of them to end up together because they have such a great history and chemistry. Like Buddie.

So yes Nonny, I agree. And listen, I do too still fret sometimes that I might be seeing things that aren't there. It's in my nature as a libra to doubt everything.

But then I start putting all of the evidence in- and outside of the narrative together and... it can only lead to one thing: queer Eddie (which is about time) and eventually Buddie.

And imagine the payoff that will be. Imagine how the viewership will get a boost. So many more people would turn in. Bi Buck was big, but the fan favourite queer slow burn getting together after 7 seasons by then? The internet will explode. It will be epic.

For 6 seasons we have been rooting for these men to open their eyes and to see what is right in front of them. There were plans to go there, but FOX stopped it. Now they are on ABC and obviously ABC is okay with queer characters on their shows. I mean, look at 'Grey's anatomy'.

So yes, I proudly declare myself no longer delulu and 100% certain that Buddie is in the works. There is no more need for clown noses and clown cars. We are beyond that now. It's a matter of 'when', not 'if'.

Mind you, just my humble opinion here. But I stand with it.

[allastoredeer]

manlyman al/uwu lucifer, buff al/skinny lucifer, lucifer in a drag with al dressed in a suit - all the same crap, it's also very noticeable how much of luci in dress with al in a suit there is and how little the other way around or when they both in dresses and also luci in dress? 10000+ likes, while rare alastor in dress? well, barely 1000 or 2000. Same with any reverse of usual fandom versions of them. Very telling if you ask me. Blond, short, goofy, did a sad face few times? Of course it's the one who's we gonna make a girly girl here and there's can be only one in our mlm ship 🙄 People want fanon charlastor but without charlie in it because she's actually a female

Damn, you came in swinging.

But, like...I see no lies here. It is kind of funny that people put Lucifer in dresses more than Alastor when Alastor literally wore a nun outfit in the show. It's such a shame too because with Al's long legs and slim waist, DAMN he'd look so good in dresses.

It is very telling that in every fandom space, with at least one pairing - usually a very popular one - one of two becomes a girly girl and the other a darker, menacing, and more intimidating manly man. There's nothing wrong with feminine male characters, nor them being in mlm relationship, but when it happens to every. Single. Ship. where the characters are stripped down to basic archetypes.... ಠ_ಠ

It really is funny, because going by what we've seen in the show, Alastor is so much more of a girly pop than Lucifer is. Him and all his little wrist flicks and sassy remarks.

I mean

Look at this guy

Look at him

LOOK AT HIM

LOOOOOOK AT HIMMMMMMMM

How can people see this man as a super serious big bad muscle daddy? I don't understand. He's so unserious. So full of whimsy. He's a clowning troll. And I'm telling you, look at that thin waist and those long legs. He'd look amazing in a dress.

This actually reminds me of a previous ask I got a while back. The topic was centered around some fans saying that Alastor would never bottom and the over all characterizations of him and Lucifer, and this line here sums it up perfectly:

"shows such a patriarchal-ly drenched heterosexual view of sex, that they then apply to a MLM ship that drives me INSANE."

Particularly, the drenched in a patriarchally heterosexual view. Having one man in a mlm relationship be more feminine than the other is totally okay, there is nothing wrong with that, and there are a lot gay relationships like that.

But the way a lot of radioapple is depicted feels weirdly heterosexual, and it's because of the behaviors and archetypes that get assigned to them. Lucifer becomes this teeny tiny, wide-eyed, awkward little waif and Alastor this big dark possessive boyfriend who's always looming over his shoulder and glaring at anyone who looks at Lucifer. It reads like every other cringy straight romance I've read. Add in the trope of Alastor drinking Lucifer's blood and it's basically "Twilight" set in Hell.

Okay, not to derail, but there was this one AU that I was obsessed with. It's a Hades/Peresphone AU for radioapple, and it sounded amazing, but there were so many depictions of Alastor as Hades and Lucifer as Persephone and I was just...

I was flabbergasted.

You have Lucifer, the king of Hell, the DEVIL himself, be the goddess of spring instead of the Lord of the Underworld. I'm....whut?!!?!?! Alastor is literally a deer, he would be perfect to play Persephone. That guy would be hunting down all the people poaching and harming his domain and making them suffer, and I can totally see Niffty as a psycho little nymph that tags along on his "hunting trips."

I've seen one or two au's where Alastor is Persephone and Lucifer is Hades, and they are glorious, but every time I see the opposite I feel like I'm taking psychic damage. A year of my life gets taken away. I fear I'll be on my death bed soon.

Also this line "People want fanon charlastor but without charlie in it because she's actually a female" it's so true to fandom it hurts, but it's so fucking funny, I'm wheezing

You ate with this ask 🤌

[charmac]

forgive me if i get anything wrong with what i say; i only very recently finished my first watchthrough of iasip and much more recently started interacting with the fandom.

out of curiosity, is there a general consensus on how the fandom views the possibility of macdennis being canon? it feels like scrolling through tumblr and other social media there’s people who are in love with the idea of it being canon and those who abhor it, along with everything in between. reading through your previous ask, for me it begs the question: is there any reason why sunny fans or macdennis enthusiasts would discourage the idea of the ship actually being canon?

Nothing incorrect with what you've said; great question. And the funny thing is it's so confusing because there isn’t really a (good) answer as to how the fandom as a whole views the “possibility” of canon Macdennis, because there isn’t a general consensus on whether they should be/are considered canon already.

I think, to some extent, almost everyone has their own micro interpretations on Macdennis being canon or not based on what already exists between the two of them, though there are two undeniable facts: It’s canon that Mac is in love with Dennis and it is canon that Dennis (as Johnny) knowingly became Mac’s boyfriend this season. For a chunk of people, that is canon Macdennis; for others, it’s not canon until they’re in an official relationship, and for most (?) it's an in-between that leads to micro labels and conditional sentences before and after the word "canon"

For the sake of your question, I'm going to split the difference and say "Canon Macdennis" is an undeniably-reciprocal, on-screen hook-up. And why would Macdennis shippers not want that?

In my experience, I tend to see three main/popular explanations as to why:

RCG cannot write it. This is the most simple and maybe least popular (?) reason of the three that I see. The argument being that, whether they have the inability to or people believe they don't have the right to, R(C)G as cishet (allegedly) men can't write or act a canon queer relationship in a way that would be conducive to the characters, a gay ship, and/or the show, and therefore they should not write it at all. Don't trust it = don't want it.

It will permanently alter Mac and Dennis' dynamic. This is the most based (in canon) reason as to why people don't want Mac and Dennis to more-explicitly hook up. Their current dynamic (which has arguably existed this way since before MADBU) has always been pseudo-sexual, toeing the line of "are they fucking..?" for over fifteen years. It is true that Mac and Dennis hooking up, both fully conscious and aware that the hook up is happening with each other, will alter their relationship in a way (that's potentially destroying). There's no going back once Dennis' acts on the sexual tension between them with Mac fully aware of it happening, and some people don't think on-screen gay shit is worth ruining what they currently have. Some people are satisfied with the ambiguously sexual edging of these middle aged men and don't want Canon Macdennis because, for however it's written, there's no way to have them hook-up while retaining the unique ambiguity of their sexual relationship. Don't rock the boat.

Macdennis' current relationship is too toxic and canonising them would be unenjoyable. This reason is probably the most popular but definitely the least based (to the point of canon), stemming from the fact that a chunk of the fandom only likes Macdennis based on flanderised characterisation. If you haven't encountered this (as it's really mostly on Twitter) there are people who ship Macdennis only in fanon (either they found out about the ship through edits, fanart, fics, whatever) and they dislike the toxicity of their canon relationship (and the general idea that the Gang are bad people). Macdennis in this sense is treated more as if it were a typical sitcom ship, where the idea is that they finally hook-up, become boyfriends, and (mostly) happy together. Knowing the actual nature of the show, however, they understand RCG would never "let them be happy" and thus believe Canon Macdennis would suck to watch and would only ruin fanon Macdennis. Fanon > Canon.

I know people out there have other reasons for not wanting Canon Macdennis (i.e. Rob is too ugly to be kissing Glenn), and surely some combine a number of these reasons, but I think these three encompass the majority of what you may be seeing from anti-canon Macdennis shippers.

And I am actually interested in finding out where the divide lies over this, honestly! Right now I would predict the majority of the fandom here would like Canon Macdennis, point blank... but maybe I'm wrong.

[ladyrijus]

so glad I'm not alone in how i feel about fanon Link versus canon with botw/totk. i don't think it's wrong for people to write him how they experienced the games, but like. that's not his actual canon personality ya know? and sometimes meta posts kind of ignore that distinction and it's so frustrating. (i think you already know this but i feel the same way about other noncanon stuff like the warriors games and the manga, including the skyward sword oneshot in the hyrule historia)

Right?

I don't have a problem either with making light of the game mechanics and drawing silly comics or writing funny scenarios; everyone has a right to do whatever the fuck they want.

But I can't help but feel a little... irritated when they portray BOTW/TOTK! Link to the other Links as this feral little gremlin who wants to cause mass destruction in nothing but his undergarments in comparison to the OTHER Links.

They act as if the other Links are more noble and honorable than him, the child who took up the sword even though it meant that he would no longer be seen as human but a war god in his people's eyes, the child who died a mortal all the same in his last stand against a beast of metal designed to protect him and his princess, the child who was given a chance at life AGAIN and still ran headfirst into danger for friends he could barely remember, because that is who Link truly is.

He was disabled at the start of BOTW due to the guardian attack and had to learn how to fight again; even then, unless you were an experienced player hell bent on fighting like lore-accurate Link, he never could surmount to the abilities he had pre-Calamity. That was something huge he ultimately came to terms with.

And then he becomes disabled AGAIN from the malice attack, losing an entire part of himself (physically and mentally) and has to learn how to fight with a stranger's arm that has been surgically attached to him without his consent. But he doesn't let that deter him. Doesn't let himself give up. He doesn't cry, "why me?" or get extra agitated in the dialogue with other NPCs (cough cough looking at you Skyward Sword Link). He gets up, and understands that there are people that need his help, and he's going to help them, regardless of what may come.

Also, he can literally see dragons, creatures that are deemed mythical in HIS world. That's not even the crazy part; the games confirm that typically children see dragons due to their pure hearts. If that doesn't speak volumes about Link's true character, I don't know what does.

[nikethestatue]

One of the most common questions that we--Elriels--ask for the past going on 4 years, is HOW. How can (you) not see Elriel? How can (you) not see the buildup throughout the books? How do (you) not see the development of their relationship? HOW? Because, in the words of the author, it's pretty obvious.

We've heard things like 'SJM changed her mind!' 'SJM is a fated mates author!' (we'll come back to that later) 'SJM set up a new ship in the bonus chapter!' "Gwyn and Azriel are so similar and have the same powers! They are equals!' "Gwyn and Azriel have banter!!!' 'It's only lust between Azriel and Elain!'

And that brings me to Nesta and Cassian.

Nesta and Cassian had a whole VERY long book. We've all read it. It's a book of lust and love between the two of them. Of LOTS of banter. Of sex. Of becoming 'equals' and Nesta taking on military-style training, becoming an Oristian to Cassian's Carynthian. We find out that Nesta's been madly in love with Cassian since the moment she saw him. We get 'golden threads' binding them on Solstice and them being revealed as fated mates.

You might say--yes, we know all this! why are you wasting our time with the synopsis?

I'll explain.

Lately, especially post HOFAS, I've been seeing more and more 'theories' about how Nessian is a 'fake bond' and that Nesta and Cassian aren't actually mates. No. Apparently, the Cauldron, enraged at Nesta stealing some of its power, threw out a fake mate bond at her and Cassian as a curse and in retaliation. She's been shackled to Cassain. Whereas her one true love is Eris. Her real mate. And in the next Nesta book, Cassian is going to get killed and Nesta will move on to Eris and live happily ever after.

Which brings me to another couple--Bryce and Hunt. Who are chosen mates and who've gone through unimaginable trials and hardships, only for people to ship Bryce with Azriel (unironically). In this case, we had the same story--the Quinlar bond was fake. Hunt was going to die. Bryce would find happiness with Azriel.

The same people who foam at the mouth with 'ELUCIEN are fated mates and SJM is a fated mates author' are writing metas about how Nessian have a fake bond. The same people who scream about Gwynriel's 'BANTER!' and how they are equals, now say that the Nesta and Cassian have nothing in common, and apparently, she has more in common with...Eris?

And my point is simple--no matter what SJM says or writes, there will always be absolutely deranged detractors of everything that is canon, of everything that she had said, of everything that's been published.

So, it's not us. It's actually them. We are not the crazy ones who happen to read the text and come up with logical conclusions. We are not the ones who don't have 'reading comprehension'. We are not the ones 'who've never read a romance'. We are not the ones who 'never had a relationship'. No. We simply read what SJM put down on paper and we have a rational approach to canon.

But it also means that even if she made an announcement TODAY, saying out loud, online, in writing--the next book will be Elain's and she will be paired with Azriel--there will still be thousands of people out there denying it. They will be coming up with scenarios of how that will absolutely, definitively, 100% never happen.

In this fandom, fanon rules. Not the author's own words. Not the books. Not any logical conclusion. Not anything rational.

The more I see of this nonsense, the more I understand why SJM pulled away and why no matter what she says, she will be disregarded and people will flock to BookTok and listen to insane 'theories', disseminate them and then argue until someone gets a heart attack about how the theory is 'correct'.

Basically, cheer up Elriels. You ain't crazy. Don't let anyone gaslight you into believing that you are wrong. You are every, very right.

[taihua]

Thank you for the reply! Now this gets even more interesting when I think about his relationship with Mu Qing. Honestly, their dynamic really fascinate me because what the hell is going on? Why is he so volatile with him? Cause MQ may be a bitch but the things feng xin said to him can be really below the belt. Like you said, i dont wanna say he’s a classist but ??? My guy you’re not helping. And now feng xin got more interesting in my eye than what fanon usually depicts him. I think when he loves people, he wants nothing but the best for them. Even if something they don’t necessarily want for themselves. And since MQ obviously don’t meet the criteria, he just gets pissed off and can think of him nothing but a bad person.

"What the hell is going on with Fengqing" is the question that scholars will be asking for centuries 😔

Nonetheless, I don't think I agree that Feng Xin is making any "below the belt" comments--this is going to be a super long response because I want to break down all the situations where fandom accuses him of being unfair to Mu Qing, but the bottom line is that it's not as simple as Feng Xin being mean to a poor abused Mu Qing for no reason.

"Crowds get handsy. We don’t want people sneaking it in their pockets before we find anything,” Feng Xin said offhandedly."

This is usually where Feng Xin gets (unfairly) accused of being classist and a bully to Mu Qing, I guess because it's viewed as a snide comment about Mu Qing's wealth?--but that's not true, because a) nowhere does Feng Xin say anything about social class in this statement (and in fact, in context of Xie Lian suggesting they call in help to look for his missing earring, it's more likely they would be calling in people from the palace) and b) he wasn't even talking about Mu Qing.

Which brings me to the second point, but half the reason Mu Qing overreacts and storms out of the room is because he thinks Xie Lian has been talking about him behind his back:

Mu Qing clenched his fists tight, then loosened them, but at last did not continue to blow up. However, his eyes were growing red, and he turned to Xie Lian, enunciating each word as he stared at him."You…don’t keep your promises."

So here you have Xianle Trio's first major communication breakdown--Xie Lian tries to do the right thing by not sharing the story about the missing gold foil, Mu Qing jumps to the unfair conclusion that Xie Lian broke his promise and told Feng Xin, and Feng Xin is upset because he's being accused of being a jerk about something he didn't even know about.

Book 4 rice scene

Here's another case where Feng Xin seems to be blamed for yelling at Mu Qing without any consideration for the context. Xie Lian went to go cultivate after seeing Feng Xin get beaten up for busking and they were counting on him to ascend to lift them out of poverty, Mu Qing ruined it because he wouldn't stand up for Xie Lian in front of the other officials, you can argue to what extent Mu Qing "had no choice."

What kills me about this scene is how Feng Xin is so nice to Mu Qing at first:

"Alright," Feng Xin said. "I’ll say my thanks then. We do need all this stuff right now. Heavenly officials can’t gift mortals things privately, so you be careful too." Then he shuffled to Xie Lian’s side and whispered, “I’m pretty surprised too, that he’d actually come back to help. I'm the one who judged him wrong. In any case…"

He doesn't begrudge Mu Qing going to work for another god, and he only gets angry when Xie Lian gets angry--Xie Lian, who is visibly injured and so angry he can't even speak to Mu Qing, so obviously Feng Xin is pissed off after noticing that, and he still gives Mu Qing a chance to explain himself before he starts yelling. Was he supposed to say "thanks for the rice, I totally understand why you humiliated Xie Lian and ruined our chances at escaping poverty, I can't wait to go back to begging for coins and getting beaten up"...?

Plus you have another example of bad Xianle Trio communication, because Mu Qing accuses Feng Xin of holding him to different standards than Xie Lian, based on the stealing incident that Xie Lian never told Feng Xin about. Once again, Feng Xin is the last person to find out about the incidents that Mu Qing is being weird about and is expected by fandom to take Mu Qing's meanest assumptions in stride because Mu Qing is a poor little meow meow or whatever.

(Side note that that's two examples where it's clear that Feng Xin views stealing as morally wrong; he's consistent in his values.)

"...and don’t think yourself a good person! Genuinely good people aren’t like you, YOU’VE NEVER BEEN ONE!"

From their fight on Mt. Tonglu. It's not very nice, but the context of the fight is arguing about whether or not Mu Qing killed Jian Lan and Cuocuo. Yknow, Feng Xin's girlfriend who he loved and their child that he didn't know about that he just recently learned were brutally murdered. Mu Qing's the main suspect and there's clear evidence that he had met them before, he's been on the run to avoid a trial, and all he can say is "I didn't do it"--it looks bad and Feng Xin has every right to be not only suspicious of him, but also really fucking upset with him.

Plus, the context of the fight is also that they're still blaming each other for abandoning Xie Lian, and Mu Qing thinks it's okay to bring Jian Lan into that argument as if he isn't the prime suspect in their murder investigation:

"Taking yourself for the model of loyalty, didn’t you ditch the boss when the wife came along? The wife and the son became more important?! Everyone’s doing things for themselves, it’s the self that’s priority! Aren’t you embarrassed hanging on to that old shitty deed over my head?"

If anyone's going below the belt here, it's Mu Qing for bringing up a specific and personal trauma to win an argument. Feng Xin's generic insult doesn't come anywhere close to this, but I often see "you've never been a good person" quoted as something Feng Xin is supposed to apologize for with no consideration for what Mu Qing is saying a few paragraphs later. If one is shitty, then so is the other.

Speaking of Mu Qing making below the belt comments...

"After Fu Yao entered the Temple of Nan Yang, for two whole hours he thoroughly criticized this statue of Nan Yang from head to toe, something about how the design was deformed, the colors tacky, the craftsmanship crude, the taste bizarre...."

Notably, Nan Feng doesn't respond to this. Two hours of holding his tongue before he finally comes out with "Don’t you be acting all sarcastic here, if you’re really so bored, go sweep the floor!" after Fu Yao recites the Ju Yang poem and embarrasses him in front of Xie Lian. Literally below the belt from Mu Qing here, since he knows full well that Feng Xin doesn't like it and takes great delight in mocking him anyway. Fandom gets mad at Feng Xin for yelling, but it's funny and quirky if Fu Yao insults him? Why the double standard?

So bringing it all back to your initial question, "Why is he so volatile with him?"--because they don't communicate well, because no one bothers to tell Feng Xin about anything until after Mu Qing has thrown a fit, and because every time he gives Mu Qing the benefit of the doubt Mu Qing does something weird and ends up throwing it back in his face.

[bibibbon]

MHA chapter 415 leaks

A lot of the problems I have with this chapter are already ones that I talked about in previous chapter posts which can be found here 👇

However I still wanna talk about things that I don't like in this chapter.

1) the memory sharing thing and how random it is. I stand by the point that this plot point came out of nowhere, is a speedy and cheap way to try and build up what little development izuku and shigarakis dynamic lacks. The memories that are being shared also seem very inconsistent like why did one memory trigger another? It makes no sense why Izuku's fight with todoroki would ultimately trigger the usj and why the fight itself would be triggered by a convo that stain and shigaraki have. In my opinion, this is also a very good way for hori to just show off how he has improved his own art and be like "oh look at how good my art is now" which kinda sucks because we don't get any story but just some cool looking manga chapters

2) power of rejection?!?! Seems like a fancy plot armour for izuku not to lose all of his quirks to me🤷‍♀️. The power of rejection just sounds like such a cliche way to be like oh izuku won't lose his quirk to plot armour because he physically cannot lose his quirks since shigaraki is rejecting them. Like seriously what is it with Izuku not being able to keep his powers and we are just having him HAVE TO PASS DOWN HIS QUIRK FOR NO REASON?!?!?! you already passed down the quirk that caused the most distress aka kudos so won't izuku suffer even more if he passed down blackwhip which is the quirk that is keeping him both alive and is giving him the ability to move like why would izuku the and transfer that?!?! Seems stupid to me 😭 and low-key further reinforces the idea that the power of rejection is (A) there a plot point introduced to make it so that izuku doesn't lose his quirks and (B) so horikoshi can still create intense looking manga pages that he won't be able to create if izuku can't use his quirks anymore.

3) The unnerving focus on the police officer who took Tenko home. This manga page low-key confirmed the one theory that was like the police officer is afo and that AFO gave tomura his quirk which if it is true just doesn't line up or make sense when it comes to canon. I see how this theory can help develop both the parallels further in fanon but in canon it just damages tomura's character and its like an excuse that we should pity shigaraki even more because this police guy who was supposed to help him was a villain who gave him a destructive quirk and made him go insane /cause his families deaths. This also takes away from the half baked plot point that the gene for quirks actually heavily influence behaviour but if this theory is true then shigaraki just wants destruction because he wants destruction 🤷‍♀️ nothing more and nothing less.

4) Eri becoming relevant to the plot now? I have already said this and I will say it again Eri's quirk is too narrative breaking and too powerful. You literally cannot have the plot go on since we discovered that Eri can legit just rewind people to a time they were at their prime like she did with mirio. This brings up the question as to why she didn't do this with aizawa or all might and therefore her quirk could be used to make the series and characters have no long lasting concequences. Also how are the heroes so irresponsible thaT THEY COULD LET A CHILD SIMPLY RUN INTO A DANGEROUS AND TERRIFYING BATTLE FIELD LIKE WHATS WRONG WITH YOU ECTOPLASM DO SOMETHING YOURE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT THE CHILD ARENT YOU?!?!?!!? also this is such a shame Eri could of actually been a very good character who symbolised the traumatic events that victims of hero society faced and how young children could be kidnapped and exploited for powerful quirks however instead of getting anything like that we just get Eri BECOMING A TOOL FOR THE HEROES WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT SHE WAS Traumatised TO DO DUE TO OVERHAUL MAKING HER A TOOL FOR HIM AND NOTHING ELSE?!?!? talk about double standards. This is also making the Eri will rewind shigaraki into Tenko theory much more plausible and I hate that theory for so many reasons. However, it's either this or the theory that she will have to separate Izuku and shigaraki BECAUSE FOR SOME forsaken REASON THOSE TWO ARE SOMEHOW MERGING AND BECOMING THE SAME PERSON LIKE THAT MAKES ANY SENSE

5) where did the damage that kudos quirk was supposed to do to shigaraki go? Is it me but I seriously don't see shigaraki getting any damaged or recoil from kudos quirk like I could see some of it from the last chapter where shigaraki was somewhat struggling but that's it nothing else. Shigaraki can now fight perfectly fine and isn't getting the recoil hit if a nuke something that izuku was suffering with the majority of the fight which just seems unfair at this point like?!?! Its also another example of how hori fails at show don't tell

Seriously I still don't like the leaks but at least we got my girl hatsume and la brava that's the only good thing I can think about when it comes to these leaks.

[evilbihan]

nobody:

someone in the fandom: Bi-HaN hAtEs ToMአsO hE mUsT hAtE oRpHaNs iN GeNeRaL!!!!!!1111ONE

WH... WHAT THE-

bruh. nobody hates ALL jackets just because they hated the color/design of ONE of them. no video game critic hates an entire video game series just because they hated ONE entry in it. so on, so forth.

so even if it was true that Bi-Han hates Tomáš, I HIGHLY doubt he (or anyone for that matter) is gonna hate every single orphan ever because of that. 🤦🏾‍♀️ it makes ZERO sense!!

and besides, Bi-Han's parents are dead so he's literally an orphan himself??!! what, is Fanon!Bi-Han gonna hate HIMSELF too once he suddenly realizes that?? 🤣🤣

just when i begin to think this fandom couldn't possibly get any stupider, they tend to prove me wrong nearly EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

this is ri-friggin-diculous

I know right????? Don't even get me started, it's so bad. 😭

You're right, Bi-Han and Kuai Liang are both orphans themselves. These stupid memes going around about Bi-Han hating orphans make me want to facepalm every time I see them. Do people actually think they're being funny with that crap?? 💀

Bi-Han doesn't hate orphans and most importantly HE DOESN'T HATE TOMAS.

He's the ONLY one who consistently talks to Tomas and addresses him directly in the story mode while Liu Kang and even Kuai Liang treat Tomas like he's not even there. Kuai Liang only remembers Tomas exists when he needs him on his side.

Bi-Han rushes to the edge after Tomas nearly falls to his death to check if he's okay and HE DID NOT KICK THE STONE!!!! THERE'S VISUAL PROOF OF THAT RIGHT HERE!!!!

Tomas is literally Dark!Titan Bi-Han's right hand man as seen in invasions mode.

Watching their intros, Bi-Han asks Tomas to submit if he ever wants there to be peace between them, which means he's not opposed to the idea of accepting Tomas back into the Lin Kuei or at least to have a peaceful relationship with him.

Tomas used to idolize and admire Bi-Han. They were never that close and probably didn't have the best relationship, but nothing indicates that they ever hated each other.

And as you already correctly said, even if he were to dislike Tomas, which again, he doesn't, disliking one orphan doesn't mean he dislikes all. I could be wrong but isn't Frost, his own initiate an orphan too?

I totally get what you mean! Each time I think this fandom has hit its lowest point with the constant dumb and incorrect takes on Bi-Han, a new, even dumber take pops up. It never stops.

Anyway, feel free to refer these uneducated people to any of these posts linked above, so they can see how wrong they are and feel ashamed for their stupid takes.

[11queensupreme11]

Im sorry but WHAT are these ancient fucking laws I keep reading about in so many percy jackson fics 😭😭 I read the books a long time ago, so I don't remember it, but I thought it was just a fanon thing to explain why the gods are neglectful?

OKAY IM REALLY GLAD YOU ASKED THIS CUZ YOU'RE NOT ALONE

ive seen so many comments in arsenic blues from ppl who believe that ALL the gods are being WILLINGLY neglectful towards their kids, and that is NOT true.

the ancient laws are a canon thing in pjo. it's been mentioned many many times, but through scattered discussion. here's a list of dialogues that talk/mention it (the quotes were taken from this helpful reddit post btw)

example 1:

"Do not judge the Lord of the Sea too harshly," the Nereid told me. “He stands at the brink of an unwanted war. He has much to occupy his time. Besides, he is forbidden to help you directly. The gods may not show such favouritism.” “Even to their own children?” “Especially to them. The gods can work by indirect influence only. That is why I give you a warning, and a gift.”

example 2:

“Permission to kill, my lady?” I couldn’t tell who she was talking to, because she kept her eyes on the manticore. The monster wailed. ‘This is not fair! Direct interference! It is against the Ancient Laws.”

example 3:

"Why show yourself now?" Luke demanded. His shoulders were tense, as if he expected a fight. "All these years I've been calling to you, praying you'd show up, and nothing. You left me with her." He pointed toward the kitchen like he couldn't bear to look at his mother, much less say her name. "Luke, do not dishonor her," Hermes warned. "Your mother did the best she could. As for me, I could not interfere with your path. The children of the gods must find their own way."

example 4:

“Luke, I care very much,’ Hermes said slowly, ‘but gods must not interfere directly in mortal affairs. It is one of our Ancient Laws. Especially when your destiny ...” His voice trailed off.

example 5:

My heart sank. Chiron was right, but it was all we could muster. For once I wished Dionysus were here, but even if he had been, I didn’t know if he could have done anything. When it came to war, gods were forbidden to interfere directly. Apparently, the Titans didn’t believe in restrictions like that.

example 6:

Hermes readjusted the mailbag on his shoulder. ‘Percy, the hardest part about being a god is that you must often act indirectly, especially when it comes to your own children. If we were to intervene every time our children had a problem ... well, that would only create more problems and more resentment.

example 7:

“Besides, even if the other gods suspect Hades – and I imagine Poseidon does – they couldn’t retrieve the bolt themselves. Gods cannot cross each other’s territories except by invitation. That is another ancient rule. Heroes, on the other hand, have certain privileges. They can go anywhere, challenge anyone, as long as they’re bold enough and strong enough to do it. No god can be held responsible for a hero’s actions. Why do you think the gods always operate through humans?”

example 8:

"Now, a god cannot usurp another god's symbol of power directly-that is forbidden by the most ancient of divine laws. But Zeus believes your father convinced a human hero to take it."

don't get me wrong, there are gods who couldn't care less about their kids and willingly neglect them, but it's veeeery wrong to believe that ALL the gods are like this. it's canon that gods cannot interfere in their children's lives, even if they want to. they don't neglect their kids because they don't care about them, they do it because they don't have a choice.

hermes and luke's relationship shows this perfectly. hermes IS a good dad (he's actually one of the best imo). he knew what luke's fate would be and TRIED to change it even though everyone knew it would be impossible, but he was desperate anyway because he loved his son and wanted to try and save him.

unfortunately, every attempt to change his fate always failed (because duh, can't change fate): he sent luke on a quest to "build him up as a hero" only for luke to fail and get a scar, asked percy and annabeth to save him, but they failed too (he even snapped at annabeth for failing to go with his son).

sooo yeah! like i said, there are some godly parents that willingly neglect their kids because they don't care about them, but that's not the case for every single god. there ARE gods who care about their kids, they're just forbidden to interact with them, and that means they can't raise them either.

[maniacwatchestheworld]

Man... I just LOVE watching the DPxDC community do their thing. I like them and just want to examine you all under a microscope because I find you all so very interesting! It's just absolutely TRAGIC that I have yet to find any storyline or AU that tickles my specific fancy, personally...

I acknowledge that this is purely a me problem and not a community problem 120%! The stuff that I just enjoy about Batman and Danny Phantom are just not things that the community are interested in as a whole and that's perfectly fine! But it does make me feel like a pure outsider when I wish that I could actually more earnestly engage with the community itself from within. Just... Siiiiiigh! And I just have not been able to think up anything to make the two verses blend together in a way that would be personally satisfying to me specifically!

Have some of my personal winging under the cut! No hate. Just explaining my tastes and yearning.

Absolutely no shade! All the more power to you for writing stories with these tropes and features! But I personally am not particularly interested in batfamily drama, and I see the kids in the batfamily as the children that they used to be in many ways. So stories about the batfamily don't interest me a whole lot, and I'm just not invested in shipping them with anyone (I'm also ace, so I really don't get pretty much anything out of batfamily romance) as a whole. What I like about Batman is that his stories are largely mysteries. I like the atmosphere and I absolutely ADORE the rogues! I like seeing the crimes and Batman clashing with his rogues, and most of all I LOVE the heart-wrenching DRAMA between Bruce and Harvey as Bruce DESPERATELY does everything he possibly can to save his best friend, while Harvey slips further and further into a hell that he wishes that he could climb out of but is just unable to alone! Harvey is just my absolute favorite and the sheer tragedy of his character has a tight grip around my heart that will not let go! Meanwhile with Danny Phantom, what I like about it... Well... I just think that Vlad is neat! There is also a certain tragedy to him as well, but he's also just a pathetic loser which is hilarious to me! Like, so often he comes off as so slick and cool and threatening... But also he's a loser and a goober. I also just love seeing how much of a simp Jack is for him. And I just like how redemption is always just barely in sight for Vlad... He just has to honestly reach out and grab it, but he just isn't willing to right now. Also ghost powers are neat and unique and I enjoy the unique possibilities and aesthetics of it. But sadly for me, these just aren't things that the DPxDC community is interested in. And that's perfectly fine, but it does make me yearn. Like there are interesting parallels to explore between Harvey and Vlad for sure! But I have no idea how to explore them in any interesting ways at all! Also I am just the kind of person who very much dislikes stories about destiny and stuff like that. So AUs like the twin demons or Ghost King!Danny just have absolutely no appeal to me. I'm just not interested in the inevitability that a lot of storytellers in this space have that Danny WILL join the batfamily. Also it feels disappointing to me whenever a writer just doesn't give the DC the credit that they deserve. It feels like people just want Danny to be super ultra overpowered, even more so than the super ultra overpowered characters that DC already has without exploring how these different things interact. Feels like people are more interested in erasing DC canon to make way for their Danny Phantom fanon instead of letting both things be true as is the usual DC way. Again, there's nothing wrong with doing that, but it just leaves me wanting. Also I really don't particularly like nor care about Ra's or Talia as far a rogues go, so only seeing them getting included in these things is just disappointing.

Lays down. Like, I don't want to sound like I'm hating on the community. I honestly am not. I'm just bellyaching because I am in this enclosure and am not receiving good enough stimulation in this space. It just feels like... It's a hot day, and I am REALLY craving some ice cream right now! But this ice cream shop only has 4 flavors and I quite dislike them all. I'm not angry at people for liking these 4 flavors. And this place is just SO CLOSE to being something I like! I enjoy the decor, the location is really nice and convenient for me. But alls I can do in just stare in the window and watch everyone else enjoying themselves while I bake in the sun. I admit that this is purely a me problem and not a community problem but it's just a bummer, y'know? Flops.

[henrysglock]

how/when did your view change from basically "brenner is a nonce and i hate him" to where you're at now? not judging, i just feel like i missed a chapter

Hi Anon!

This is a super valid question, and the chapter(s) I think you might be missing are TFS and straight up fanon.

First point: Brenner is weird about kids, and I don't like him as a person

I still firmly believe filmed-canon Brenner is fucking Weird™ about children. There's no erasing the 3-legged Papa drawing from my memory, let alone all the Weird Shit re: him and Henry and the children. I still have a great deal of dislike for him/I still think he's canonically a villain. (Or at least an anti-villain/someone who does Fucked Up And Downright Evil Things while thinking they're pursuing the greater good...which actually ends up being to the Detriment of everyone involved. Smth about two wrongs not making a right.)

He does many bad things, and I don't like his behavior, but that also doesn't preclude me from acknowledging the times when he shows real grief over the past, particularly re: Henry.

For example, when I say "that's the face of a man who's missing his wife", it means "Despite the harm he did to Henry, Brenner was (on some level) affectionately attached to him, and we can see that in the way he talks about his handling of the situation/the way he talks about Henry's banishment".

It doesn't mean "Brenner and Henry had a summer wedding and everyone cheered" or "actually, Brenner is a good person who was nothing but good to Henry and the children"...because those are straight up not true statements. Brenner does bad things. Nobody likes what he's doing. Sometimes even he doesn't seem to particularly like what he's doing, but he does it anyway.

Second point: TFS vs filmed canon

Where I start to tread into a genuine grey area about his character as a whole is with TFS Brenner, because while TFS Brenner is more outwardly/verbally aggressive, he's not nearly as "evil" overall. I mean, the man can't even land an insult on Henry and have it stick, let alone do him any physical harm. TFS Brenner never whips out the sedatives or shock collar, not even when the procedure with Dimension X gets derailed and Henry's fighting his way out of the lab. TFS Brenner is so reluctant to do Henry any real harm that it's almost a little distracting at times, especially in comparison to Brenner in filmed canon.

That's not to mention there's this weird thread of:

Yes, Brenner's using Henry as a means to get at the Dimension X/the Mindflayer in a very "Captain Ahab and the White Whale" manner, but also: -- Henry is weirdly safe from the Mindflayer while in the lab right up until he "connects" to Dimension X and Patty mysteriously appears in the void with him at the exact same time/Henry doesn't have any "attacks" in the lab like he was having just out and about in "Hawkins" -- Louis talks more about there being love between Henry and Brenner than he does about there being love between Henry and Patty (pictured below) -- Henry seems to have rejected the Mindflayer at the end with prompting from Brenner by rejecting Patty the exact same way El rejects One at the end of the massacre fight (pictured below) -- Patty actually ends up doing Truly Questionable Actions consent-wise more often and with more physical severity than Brenner does/Patty has stronger ties to the Mindflayer than Brenner does

In short— TFS Brenner and on-screen Brenner are so different that I have to judge them separately. I find the former promising and the latter lacking re: Not Being Fucking Weird.

And I know you're probably like "you can excuse the ball gag thing?" to which I say: That sequence occurred 20 years after the events of TFS and "Brenner" hasn't aged a day? And he's also done a whole about-face re: Weird Romantic Things (Father and Son -> Co-parents)? Nah, baby, there's something else going on there. That's almost kind of giving the vibes of the Mindflayer impersonating Brenner, which wasn't the case before.

Third point: Fanon

I'm playing in my sandbox with Ken dolls, particularly if this ask was in reference to my fics/wips.

For example, Papa Warbucks is a

What if: -- The supernatural stuff didn't exist, Henry was just a weird kid, Brenner's dad died under "normal" circumstances/the Creel murders never happened -- Brenner didn't meet Henry until Henry was already 21, so the age gap isn't 14 and 31, it's 21 and 38, meaning everything is above-board -- Brenner wasn't ever affiliated with the CIA or DOD, so he never got the chance to even think of exploiting/skirting the legal system the way he does in canon -- All this is set somewhere between 2018-2024

type of alternate universe.

This is because I think that under the "right" circumstances, Henry and Brenner could have been a powerful/compelling duo. They do have times in TFS where they really gel as partners in crime (so to speak), so I genuinely think that if the circumstances were tweaked, even just in the way of "these two met as adults", they could have been contenders for a Valid Ship in canon (based on TFS).

Thus, the fic ends up being a would've, could've, should've type deal where things actually go well between the two of them. It's me exploring their potential personality-wise without the roadblocks canon puts in place logically/morally.

I hope this answers your question!

[utilitycaster]

Something clicked for me in that last post about Laudna being picked by Delilah because of her sorcerer abilities. Because there's kind of an incongruence there for me? Like was Laudna picked by Delilah because she bore a passing resemblance to Vex, is she a girl killed for the sake of someone else's story? Is that theme weakened if she was actually prepped as a vessel for Delilah 'just in case'? Does the suntree carry less weight if one of the bodies was MEANT to come back? Idk.

Hey anon!

I've talked about this a bit here and I think that might be of interest to you.

For what it's worth: I think it's fair if Laudna was picked for both reasons. The Briarwoods were not exactly looking that hard for verisimilitude with the Sun Tree corpses (couldn't or didn't bother to find a natural redhead for Keyleth) so "dark haired young woman who makes for a good contingency vessel and conveniently can also be a Sun Tree corpse" makes sense. I also don't think that this reduces the weight of the Sun Tree, in that Hollow Ones in the description are implied to in some ways be people denied the peace of death. It's not any less horrifying and tragic if Delilah was double-dipping with Laudna; she's still being used as a thing rather than a person and she is still getting murdered even if she's also brought back.

But yes, narratively, neither of these is really getting explored. I don't think either possibility is a weak theme - there's much to be said about either "Laudna was killed for someone else's story for largely aesthetic reasons, out of sheer bad luck, and this is what it's like being collateral damage in the story of someone else" or "Laudna had strange powers, and in trying to learn more about them and about herself, she ended up being turned into the vessel for a ruthless necromancer." The second supersedes the first, but there's nothing wrong with that! The problem is that neither the first theme (which isn't entirely true, but isn't exactly untrue either) nor the second are being explored by Laudna within the story.

The post you're referencing posits a potential reason, and to be clear I like it as a concept. But I think the reason we're talking about this is because there's been kind of a treadmill of fanon for Laudna. First we thought her theme was a victim, pure collateral damage in the story of Vox Machina. Then we learned about being Delilah's vessel for her own powers. She has been progressing mechanically in those powers but hasn't really been exploring them, and that in turn suffers because we've seen such an intense exploration of what it means to be a sorcerer through Imogen, other Ruidusborn Exaltants, and even Bor'Dor. Nor is she really making an active choice between sorcerer and warlock; Delilah remains along for the ride but doing almost nothing. We can't tell what the themes are because Laudna is allegedly go-with-the-flow; but for the most part just seems stuck.

I have my speculation as to why this is, and I reblogged that post because I'm going to be honest, we're 71 episodes in and I got off that treadmill after the fantastic work during the Issylra arc fizzled out into nothing, but I support the people who are still doing that work and trying to find an in-world explanation for why Laudna is so aimless. But it remains true that the audience has to do all the work, and we're not being met even close to halfway, so we keep having to readjust and pivot, rather than refine our understanding.

[borom1r]

2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, 18, 20, 22 for lotr from the violence ask meme 😈

OK i have answered 2 already but lets do this thing fuck yea (thank uuuuuuuuuu!!!!!)

3) screenshot or description of the worst take you’ve seen on tumblr

look its not really a "take" but the amount of people who just post variations of "I don't like Boromir, he's the worst" IN THE BOROMIR TAG is genuinely insane to me. like have ur (incorrect) opinion but keep it out of the tag worstie

7) what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

uhhhh no one thank the gods. ive always disliked Denethor Because of canon. but i will say stumbling across the file index of an old LotR fansite + clicking on files w/ no preview only to find graphics thirsting over Denethor did cause massive psychic damage lmao

8) common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

idk 😭 i dont interact w/ the broader fandom really. i do find the way ppl reduce Pippin to Just a joke character in fanon insufferable tho

9) worst part of canon

BOOK!FARAMIR + HIS MIDDLEMEN SHTICK MY WORSTIE.

also ngl i do find the Aragorn/Arwen romance....... Weird. like I'm far from averse to "love at first sight" so long as it comes with the recognition that it's really more infatuation + true love takes work. and there's the fact Aragorn fell head over heels for an image of Lúthien, and Arwen's heart did not turn towards him until Galadriel dressed him up in elven finery. not to mention she was "not yet weary of her days" when Aragorn dies + has to die "whether I will or I nill" like she. wastes away? slowly alone in Lothlórien.

like idk [Aragorn kinnie voice] that's my sister, man but all that aside I do think.. Arwen deserved better? I like that the movies made her more active + I do wish she'd actually been there at Helm's Deep bc it would've been fun to see her and Éowyn bond but yeah. the vibes were off with that whole situation imho

12) the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

huh. does Théodred count? i feel like he's kind of a blank slate so fandom can just kinda run wild with him but i do genuinely enjoy writing him + find that there are solid implications for at least a friendship between him + Boromir (if not more). i mean, Boromir got a Rohirric shield from someone

14) that one thing you see in fics all the time

ok th implication here bein its sth that bothers me which thankfully i pretty much only read Aramir or Faramir/Éomer fics soooo theres not much??

i think the only things that RLLY get to me + they aren't THAT popular trope-wise (or ive been rlly good at avoiding them lmao) are fics that 1) make Boromir overly aggressive or 2) completely woobify Faramir

+ tbh the Faramir one bothers me more actually. that is a grown ass man and captain of the rangers of Ithilien.....................

18) it’s absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on…

HRM. again idk :3 <- blissfully not interacting w the broader fandom + only interacting w/ ppl w correct takes on Boromir + Rohan

(tentatively i need to start following more ppl i see some of yall in my notes + i shld follow. sorry im like a nervous dog u need to coax out from under the porch lol)

20) part of canon you found tedious or boring

side-eyeing my copies of the Histories. i need to finish those. eventually.............

22) your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

ignores?????? nothing i think (thankfully lmao) but i will say there is SO much detail in the films that it makes me INSANE. ik we literally just talked abt this in DMs lmao but i could sit n talk abt LotR costuming for fucking HOURS the films were SO stunning and the clothing alone reveals sooooooo much abt the characters i think its a super underrated vehicle for character analysis :3