Hello! New to comics and I don't really feel like the New-52 comics are for me and would really like to read and understand Pre-flashpoint and all the dark and good stuff there. Is there an order or starting point you would recommend? Thanks for your time, and I hope you have a great day!
hi! i'm so glad you want to get into comics! i'd love to help with some recs! since you're here, i'm going to assume you're a Batfamily fan and most of my recs will cater to that, but i will try to encompass a bit of everything to help you just understand some big moments and all this mess that is DC canon. adding a cut bc jesus this got long.
so your starting point for pre-Flashpoint is going to be Crisis on Infinite Earths. the TLDR of this event is: DC had a big multiverse in the 70s and early 80s that wasn't friendly to new readers. to try to push their titles more and become a proper competitor to Marvel, they created an in-universe storyline that nuked the multiverse and gave a solid entry point for new fans going forward. this is why you hear terms like Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis. it refers to the comics canon before and after this event, in 1985. some characters had some big changes (for example: pre-Crisis Jason Todd was a circus kid whose parents were killed by Killer Croc) but most remained largely the same, just simplified. you don't *have* to start with Crisis on Infinite Earths if you don't want to. it's a *good* storyline, but it's a big one and a lot of big multiverse-scale stuff happens. so as long as you understand it as "big event that nuked DC's multiverse and gave the world a clean slate in 1985", then you've basically got the gist. also Barry Allen dies during it, but he comes back so don't worry about it.
in general, if DC has some big timeline/canon-altering event, they're going to call it a Crisis Event. the only Crisis Events that will matter to you, trying to get into pre-Flashpoint are
Crisis On Infinite Earths - the above, starts the Post-Crisis/pre-Flashpoint timeline
Zero Hour: Crisis In Time - an event in the 90s that sought to fix some of the kinks that the above Crisis caused, like fixing the origins of the Legion of Superheroes and other Golden/Silver Age characters, not *super* important tbh
Infinite Crisis - this was a big event that brought back some characters who got nuked by Crisis on Infinite Earths, unfucked Power Girl's backstory, and set the groundwork to bring back the multiverse. if you've heard "Superboy Prime punched a hole in reality and it brought back Jason Todd" yeah, this is the story where it happened
Final Crisis - a big event that was partly meta commentary but heroes fought Darkseid, Batman died for a hot second, it was all a big deal about evil winning and all that
Flashpoint - the event that nuked this timeline, a big storyline to do with Flash and the timeline that would result in the New-52 in 2011
are you confused yet? good embrace the confusion it's going to become second nature of a comic fan. you don't need to read these events as a beginner. you really don't i promise. they'll sound big and important, but besides Crisis On Infinite Earths and Flashpoint, the start and end of this era, the rest you can just kind of breeze by so long as you understand the big plot points like Batman dying or Superboy Prime punching reality. unless you really care about a character central to these stories, skip 'em for now.
now for any character, if they have a Year One comic? that is a very safe bet as a place to start. it is what it sounds like. Batman: Year One is going to be Bruce's first year as Batman. same as Green Arrow: Year One, Batgirl: Year One, etc. when in doubt, if there's a Year One, start with Year One. (note: for Superman, his "year one" type story is called Superman: Birthright and it is worth reading if you like Superman)
for Batman, i am holding you by the shoulders when i say this: people will tell you to read The Killing Joke. they're liars. do not listen to them. it's a bad story. you don't need it. do not let the Joker fanboys lie to you. people will also say Dark Knight Returns. don't listen to *them* either. i *like* DKR, i talk about it a lot here. it's not a good intro to Batman. it's an AU story, it's not canon, ignore it for now.
now where you *should* start with Batman, imo, is as followed
Batman: Year One - as said above, Year Ones are good, this is solid to start with
Batman: The Long Halloween - this is an iconic story and it's a followup to year One
Batman: Dark Legacy - the followup to Long Halloween, also a very good story
Batman: Hush - this story is a solid starter if you want to understand the general vibe of Gotham, the typical characters you see in the Batfamily, and a good Batman villain
once you've got the basics down, you *can* get into the big boy storylines like Batman: Knightfall and Batman: No Man's Land, but don't worry about those right now. they're long and complicated and shouldn't really be your starting point no matter how good they are.
other very good pre-Flashpoint comics that are easy to pick up and iconic storylines
Death of Superman - this is a long arc in the Superman run that if you collect in trades, goes Death of Superman, Funeral For A Friend, Reign of the Supermen, Return of Superman, Doomsday. it's long, but a very iconic storyline
Wonder Woman by George Perez - this the run that helped define modern Wonder Woman within the pre-Flashpoint era
JLA: Year One - if you want a good Justice League story where you get characters besides Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman taking the shine, this is a great place to start
Green Arrow by Mike Grell - start with Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters and then go into Green Arrow (1988). this has the darker, very 80s vibes that gets a bit gritty and very realistic with the issues it faces bc Green Arrow comics tend to be more rooted
The New Teen Titans by Marv Wolfman - this technically starts before pre-Flashpoint, don't worry about it it's fine. a good run for all of these characters, can get a little confusing, it is okay to be confused do not be afraid to google shit
so, some big stories out of the way i'm just. honestly going to run down the line of the major pre-Flashpoint Batfamily members and give you comic recs for them that you can start with. (besides Bruce obviously, bc well. see above)
Dick Grayson
NIghtwing: Year One
Robin: Year One
Nightwing (1995)
Tim Drake
Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying
Robin (1990)
Robin II: Joker's Wild
Robin III: Cry of the Huntress
Robin (1993)
Barbara Gordon
Batgirl: Year One
Birds of Prey (1999)
Jason Todd
Batman: The Cult (as Robin)
Batman: Death in the Family (as Robin)
Batman: Under The Red Hood
Red Hood: Lost Days
Cassandra Cain
Batgirl (2000)
Batman: No Man's Land
Jean-Paul Valley
Batman: Sword of Azrael
Batman: Knightfall
Stephanie Brown
Huntress/Spoiler: Blunt Trauma
Batgirl (2009)
Selina Kyle
Catwoman by Ed Brubaker
Helena Bertinelli
Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood
Huntress: Year One
Birds of Prey: Manhunt
Damian Wayne
Batman & Robin (2009)
there are other very important pre-Flashpoint stories for all of these characters, but these are starting points more than anything. figure out what characters you're interested and go from there. understanding the universe at large helps, do not get me wrong. but at the end of the day, comics are a choose your own adventure of who you want to give a shit about. you're *never* going to read everything "important" and you're probably not going to understand everything. that's okay. don't treat it like a media you need to "complete" like a tv show or a movie, but more like an open world game where you decide what characters/teams/stories you like the most.
pre-Flashpoint covers a lot of ground. some stuff will be darker and grittier, some stuff will be more light-hearted. it will all be about what titles you pick up and what characters you decide you want to read about. you're obviously going to get a much more grounded storyline out of Green Arrow than you are say, a JLA comic. i prefer the more grounded, "street level" sorts of characters. (if you like gritty detective stories, i will be biased and highly recommend the Question (1987) just because. i love him okay.) but you might find you like sometimes more worldly and big scale. at the end of the day: don't force yourself to love a comic you're not enjoying, even if you like that character. you can put that shit down. sometimes, "important stories" are by shitty writers that you won't enjoy reading and you shouldn't make this hobby a chore. i don't care how "critically acclaimed" it is, you don't have to like it if it doesn't click for you. and on the flipside, a comic might be considered "bad" but you may enjoy it (a personal example: Robin III: Cry of the Huntress is considered a very weak comic. don't care. i love it anyway.) accept the cringe, have fun, and enjoy yourself at the end of the day. none of it will make sense anyway so just read what sounds cool to you.
this was all over the place and rambly, but i hope it helps at least a little! welcome to comics anon! if you or anyone else would like more character-specific recs, feel free to ask! if i don't know, i can at the very least hopefully point you in the right direction <3
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"US" BY CHXRLOTTE
Right, so there's this AMAZING musician called Chxrlotte (No clue if they're on Tumblr, but you can find them in Spotify, Yt and X as far as I know) who has written songs about Good Omens.
And I don't mean "Good Omens coded", I mean about about Good Omens.
Just this morning I stumbled across this one, which is inspired by the final fifteen.
And, eh, yeah...
Angel
Ooh
God it's painful
To love you like I do
But how did I think you'd be able
To ever love a fallen angel
All I ever wanted was to be enough
GOD. DAMN. MY HEART.
Other songs by Chxrlotte I 1000% recommend are "Come With Me" and "Hellfire"
Now, If you'll excuse me, I will now proceed to go to a corner and cry. For a very, very long time.
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Hold on something's just hit me.
If everyone in the Plex were to believe that Gregory dropped Cassie at the end of Ruin to keep himself from being found, whether he did it or not, wouldn't that make Roxy to one most able to understand him?
As Mimic's guard dog, surely she would know the lengths you have to go through to keep that fucker trapped. A whole team of Raceway construction workers went straight to their deaths down there. Roxy won't let the Raceway be repaired and re-opened in order to keep people safe. She's probably been able to see Mimic and its victims through the floor this entire time, she knows what it can do and what it's done, even if she doesn't know the full extent of it.
She's willing to sacrifice her Raceway and Salon to keep people from finding Mimic. Her pride and joys, basically her whole reason for being built in the first place. They're not worth the risk to her.
Whether Gregory sacrificed Cassie to keep Mimic trapped or not, surely Roxy would realise some sort of similarity. She may think doing that to Cassie was too far, she may think he's a monster for even considering it and she may feel as though nothing could justify what he did... But there's a part of her that gets it. The absolute terror that comes at the slightest possibility that Mimic could escape. She gets that sacrifices have to made, fuck she's made those sacrifices herself. She would never have sacrificed someone for this, that's why she ran headfirst at Mimic instead of just sealing the exits again, but there could be that tiny little part of her that feels the need to constantly to remind her that Gregory was trying to do the same thing she was.
The key difference here, is that if Gregory had done it, it would fall in line with almost everything else we've seen him do. The sacrifices he makes, are of other people, and not himself. He sacrificed Roxy, Chica and Monty to upgrade Freddy for his safety and possibly the safety of Vanessa. If he also dropped Cassie, then he's once again sacrificing someone else for the sake of his own safety. Not like he has that much else to lose, but I'm drawing comparisons here.
Roxy on the other hand, sacrifices herself. She sacrificed her Raceway and her Salon for the benefit of both herself and others. Unlike Gregory finding himself in a hopeless situation and hurting others to get out of it, Roxy was given this job (probably) and chose to give up what little she has in the world to keep the situation from happening. Even when Cassie deactivates her and ends up face to face with Mimic, Roxy jumps straight at it to buy her time to escape which could have easily killed her.
So now you have Roxy, who unfortunately does understand Gregory's choice to drop Cassie (if she believes he did it which yeah she probably does) but has absolutely no sympathy for him. She couldn't care less about him. There's potentially a fearful little voice in her head that she's the same as Gregory that fuels her anger towards him even more. She hasn't ever sacrificed someone else to keep the Mimic at bay and she's been doing it for fuck knows how long, what gives Gregory a free pass? Maybe if he hadn't stolen her fucking eyes she would have been able to stop the whole thing from getting that far anyway!
I'm not saying this to frame Gregory as a villain or anything. I don't think he dropped Cassie and I still think it was entirely Freddy's fault for what happened to the others in SB. I just think this is interesting from a character stand point. The one person that could understand the choices they've made to keep Mimic from escaping is each other, but they're both too hateful of each other for it to affect anything... If they were ever to settle their differences, I think it would have to start here. The only common ground they share, is the one thing no one else does.
But Gregory didn't even fucking do it so I bet that goes well lmao
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