#glee history

[kurtsascot]

OKAY CHARACTER BASED QUESTIONS

@spaceorphan18 @snarkyhag anyone else who was there and can remember/wants to chime in please do

1) since hes on my mind rn…. did anyone EVER like ryder ???

2) who was hated more adam or brody???

3) was will EVER liked, or like… seen as cool??

4) what guest appearance was the most hated

[spaceorphan18]

@kurtsascot - To answer some of your questions

I realize this was for @redheadgleek but: baby got back being the plagarism scandal? or something else ?? how many episodes did they have prefilmed before a season aired??

Writing it down before I manage to forget about it. Adam wasn't cast until rather late in the game. We had spoilers for Christmas -- and there's a lot of stuff around the filming of White Christmas (Chris and Darren had film - and fans had film, and omg it was the best time.)

(Also - I'll have to do a longer post - because there was some gossipy Chris stuff going on, too.)

Anyway - fun fact: Adam's Apples was originally Paul's Peaches. And "Paul" was going to be a three episode guest star the same way Darren was contracted that way for Blaine. However, a few things happened.

RIB and Co did not get permission to use the version of Baby Got Back that they used, and it was a huge ordeal, and the show got sued (I believe) for it. And that soured people on the character -- before he really had anything to do.

Also - there was enough fan backlash, and all the stuff with Cory going on, that I'm sure they just didn't want to deal with the character, and he was kind of unceremoniously written off.

Unfortunately, the actor also gave this awkward interview where he tried to talk up how important he was and while I'm sure the guy is a nice guy, the interview didn't exactly paint him in the best light, so that didn't help.

this is all very interesting bc brody to me is sm more interesting than adam ???? like at least he has a personality other than British and Beanie.

There was a lot /a lot/ of Rachel hate in Season 4. Somewhat because Finchel was so irritating during Season 3 we were all collectively done with it. Partly because Rachel's storyline, when told week to week, is much more irritating than when you can see where it's headed when you watch it in bulk. And... at least from the Klaine side of things -- he was just another character taking up space and detracting from Kurt/Klaine/Whomever's story.

(I do feel differently about a lot of this stuff now - I'm just kind of giving insight as to what was going on back then.)

were the newbies just disliked bc they were new ? watching it this year they were just…not fleshed out and thats why a lot of them didnt stick. do u think if they were fleshed out early fandom would have received it better, or it would have mattered?

There were a lot of reasons the newbies were disliked.

-Part of it was because the Glee Project kind of shoehorned some of them in, and the cast was already bloated enough

-Part of it was because they felt like carbon copies of characters we already liked and enjoyed -- and now we can't see a lot of those characters and we have these pale in comparison copies.

-Part of it was because the marketing team was shoving them down our throats before the season started -- no joke, the season 3 dvds had a 'Jarley' featurette on it.

-Part of it was because we knew the break ups were happening, and it sucked to not only have screen time taken away from your favorites, but now they're miserable when they are on screen, so it made people feel resentful.

-Part of it was that they just weren't well drawn characters, and my god, the last thing we wanted was another love triangle.

-Part of it was because a lot of the stories they were telling had already been done.

-Part of it was because the newbies really did not interact with the old cast (in any meaningful way). Their stories were segregated, and it felt like a different show.

-Part of it was because it felt like the Newbies stories were being pushed to the forefront, and characters like Sam, Tina, and Artie were still sidelined and sacrificed (not to mention favorite characters leaving the show all together.)

-Part of it was that Season 3 had been so tiring (and was so not good -- don't let people today fool you on that) that a lot of people were just done with the whole thing.

The Season 6 newbies were much better received. Not only were they fresher characters, who didn't resemble old ones, they were integrated much better. The old cast didn't take a backseat to them, and instead they were used to further the plot of the old cast. If they had done with the Season 4 newbies what they did with the Season 6 newbies, I think they would have been better liked.

[crabsnpersimmons]

It has come to my attention that I haven't drawn sun and moon as chibis yet

I have rectified the situation:

all is right with the world

[kinnbig]

and that's what you missed on KinnPorsche! KinnPorsche + Glee quotes [4/?]

[klainegifs]

Blaine Anderson's Guide to Preppy Style: Blazers

Blaine loves blazers so much that the first time we see him out of his Dalton uniform, he says "I'm not even wearing my blazer" as he takes off a different blazer. Blaine finds a blazer to be appropriate for all situations: day or night, at work, at school, at a party. While blazers have traditionally been solid-colored navy, Blaine wears them in a multitude of patterns, colorways, and fabrics. (Some may even argue that these constitute as "sport coats" but I went based off how the designer listed the garment for the ones pictured.)

[snowviolettwhite]

Now, truly believe Buddie is going to become canon, was trying to be optimistic before but now it will be canon.

It is funny people are surprised. Tim Minear created a queer show from the beginning.

There are Hen and Karen and Michael and David and Josh.

9-1-1 is also a Ryan Murphy television show. He has a lot of controversy him but he is a gay man who creates mainstream queer media, including Glee.

Which had a best friends to lover troupe with Santana and Britney. Santana being a lesbian and Brittany being bi. Santana and Britney were two feminine girls who are best friends that fell in love and got married.

Buck and Eddie are two masculine men who are best friends and are falling in love. Buck is now confirmed as bi and I believe Eddie is gay.

People make fun of Glee. However at the time it was considered progressive. Glee had gay, lesbian, bi and trans representation.

Glee was actually one of the first mainstream stories where a trans character was play by a trans actor. If anyone remember the character Unique. Yes there were some stereotypes but it also shows representation that were not stereotypes. There was an obvious bipobia issue in the show. There were feminine queer women and masculine queer men. Also butch and flamboyant girls and boys exist and deserve representation. It was a happy queer show with some drama and it was for teenagers, kids and taught them about themselves and different types of people.

[fictionadventurer]

The more I learn about Civil War politics, the more I'm convinced that Lincoln's most impressive and useful leadership trait was that he never let his pride get in the way of doing his job.

Other people in Lincoln's position would have come to Washington with something to prove. They'd have resented the insults and tried to disprove them. They'd have tried to seize power and credit, rejected help, spent a lot of time trying to reach a certain level of respect.

Lincoln's response to, "You're just a backwoods lawyer with no executive experience who makes too many dumb jokes," was pretty much always, "Yeah. And?" He had no interest in petty personal power plays. He had a country to run. There was a war on. It didn't matter what people thought of him so long as the job got done.

He was aware of his personal shortcomings and was always willing to accept advice and help from people who had more knowledge and experience in certain areas. He presided over a chaotic Cabinet full of abrasive personalities who thought they were better and smarter than him, but he kept working with them because they could get the job done. For example: Stanton was absolutely horrible to him when they were both working as lawyers. Just incredibly mean on a personal level. But when Lincoln needed someone to replace Cameron, he swallowed his pride and appointed Stanton as Secretary of War, where Stanton proceeded to be mean to everyone in the world, but he whipped that department into shape and kept it running efficiently through a very chaotic war. Pretty much no one except Lincoln would have been able to put up with that. He could put up with people who were personally difficult if they could do the job he needed them to do--which he was only able to do because his own ego didn't get in the way.

Lincoln's example is a prime demonstration of how humility isn't underrating yourself--it's being so secure in your own abilities and identity that you don't need to attack anyone or defend yourself to prove your worth. He knew his shortcomings, but he also knew his strengths. He was willing to give other people credit for successes and take blame upon himself for failures if it kept things running smoothly. He was secure enough in his own power that he could deal generously--but firmly--with people who tried to undermine him. In a city full of huge egos, in a profession that rewards puffed-up pride, that levelheaded humility is an extremely rare trait--which is what made it so impressive and effective.

[kierancaz]

Guys I’m going insane again over Yuu being from our world and twisted wonderland having nothing in common with their world.

Like imagine them referencing the Lorax or Glee or FUCKING AMERICA OR HAMILTON and then when no one gets it they have to explain as best they can wtf Glee was without any reference material.

[biblicallyaccurateblaine]

pov you’re a roman soldier greeted by this on easter

[cryscendo]

if you don’t understand how the song “michael in the bathroom” from be more chill is kurt in blame it on the alcohol then u don’t understand me

[spaceorphan18]

My Season 3 Diatribe

for @wowbright who gave me a platform that I really didn't need but took anyway. ;)

The thing about Glee was that it started with a woman being fake pregnant for thirteen episodes and then ended the season with a baby being born while Bohemian Rhapsody blared in the background. It was weird and crazy and insane and just edgy enough that it was being talked about but not too niche that it couldn't find an audience. It also hit in the sweet spot of the Obama years when, as a nation, we could get on board with being a little different and a little crazy.

Ryan Murphy is both a genius and insane at the same time. I'm not really fond of him, and I think his tendency for going big sometimes obscures the nuances of really good storytelling. But he knows how to make a loud statement. And Glee was that loud statement.

And then it got big. Too big. It got more money, an awards, and the national stage, and then all eyes were on it. And Ryan Murphy got tired because that's also Ryan Murphy - being distracted by American Horror Story where he could be abstract in the way his brain really wanted to go. And so, new writers were brought in, but having all eyes on it meant you had to dial it back, and the new writers didn't jive the same way, nor could they really juggle all of the new network notes, ballooning cast, mandates of the Glee project and responsibility for now having to be a 'role model' for all the new outsiders who were hanging on.

The show was once about being an awkward kid in the 80s. And then it was forced into becoming a mouthpiece for the changing times of the 2010s.

And that... doesn't work.

The funniest thing is way back when... after I had stopped watching the show for a while, Season 3 is what brought me back. I did think, for a moment in time, that I liked it better than Seasons 1 or 2. I can't exactly tell you why. But The First Time is when I fell in love, and maybe you feel connected to something when you fall in love with it that you can't really discribe.

And I hated Season 4. and I was listening to a podcast of the day (Those of you who remember Lima Heights Adjacent?) and the group of people were talking about how, with all of its faults, Season 4 was at least NOT Season 3. And I was confused because at the time - I much preferred Season 3. Because my favorite couple was at least a couple back then -- because the cast was people I liked. Because the episodes were easy to digest and the structure of it, while being bland and predictable, fit into a nice, uniform way of storytelling.

And then time moved on, and I left my twenties, and digested the entire story (the second half, with all of its faults, does not get the recognition it deserves -- despite it falling apart at all times) and got a lot better at critical analysis and media analysis and being open to the ideas of others and just... shake my head.

When you look at the whole, Season 3 isn't AS bad as I make it seem sometimes. There's a good chunk of it, right in the middle, that is... more watchable than what's at the beginning and end.

There is, however, a laundry list of reasons why it's not good -- from questionable story telling choices to dulling the edge of a more biting comedy to just not being able to service all the characters it has in a satisfactory way. They botched Santana's story, which had been set up nicely in season 2. They threw in guest stars and special episodes to throw off that they didn't really know what to do with the story other than praise Rachel Berry and get those kids winning nationals and graduated. They took Kurt and completely neutered him in a way that went against everything they had built him up to be in the first two seasons. And so on and so on and so on.

But I suppose most egregiously -- they played it safe and it was no longer interesting.

I don't fully understand why people love it so much. But I will say - part of the reason might be why I liked it at the time. There's a huge influx of newer fans always coming to the show. And like Klaine, Brittana (which has a following unlike it ever did when it aired) remains together and having the most screen time in Season 3. All the original characters are around, and the story structure, if nothing else, is secure and sound and plays out exactly as its supposed to. Rachel Berry gets the crown, Will gets the teacher of the year, and they all win nationals - hell, even Sue gets a baby. Cue the music and roll credits.

To each their own.

Season 4 comes next with its awkward new characters and its break ups and its wild ups and downs. And then season 5 with its grief and queer in a way that's not accessible but fuck it who cares and season 6 that just wants to go back to the beginning and end it all like the weird creation it was when it started. And as complicated as all of that is -- it's not as digestible as Season 3. I like the afterwards better. But I understand that some people won't. It has, after all, taken me years to get to this level of appreciation.

Who knows how people are going to look at it in ten, fifteen, fifty years. I'm sure, as streaming shows continue to go on and on and on and nothing dies any more, it'll take on different tones and different meanings.

Maybe this time around - those people just need that comfort.

I can't tell you.

But it won't ever be my favorite. And that's fine. As always, ymmv.

[moonmoonthecrabking]

when i see two enemies with chemistry i don’t want them to “resolve their differences”. i want them to love each other sickeningly while still loathing each other.

[ipwarn]

I am so far outside the fandom but my god I keep seeing and hearing (because I might not have seen an episode of Glee in over 5 years but I do still listen to multiple Glee podcasts - ok maybe I am still in the fandom) the same old argument about Klaine being toxic and Brittana being perfect. And my guys... You did not watch the show.

Twitter is the place for this discussion but I have too many feelings and not enough characters. So I will just say those people are wrong.

[klainegifs]

Blaine Anderson's Guide to Preppy Style: Embroidered Chinos

Also known as "critter pants" because they often feature tiny embroidered critters (usually of the marine variety, ex.: whales, lobsters, crabs), Blaine's love for this coastal grandpa staple began at an early age.

[thisweekinfandomhistory]

Don't stop believin'! This week, V and Emily go back to a very different world. A pre-Glee world. And it kind of isn't pretty. While V loved Glee at first, its legacy is... not super chill and great? Outside of a few key ships that will get their own episodes later on this year and/or early next year? So this episode is about Glee as a whole, which... listen. The songs slapped. They did. However. There are so many "howevers." Also, V had a life-paradigm-shifting experience on YouTube vis-a-vis show choir while researching this episode, so there's that.

Also, you may be looking at this episode thinking, "Last week, you said the next episode would be about May the 4th." Since we are WELL past that week in fandom history, we're instead jumping ahead to get back on schedule and will be releasing the May the 4th Holiday Special on Patreon for all donors.

Sources

Does Glee Hate Its Women? by Robert George

Dear Writers of Glee by @delladilly

Glee is not progressive. by @feministglee

This Week In Fandom History is a fandom-centric podcast that tells you… what happened this week in fandom history!

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[themichaelsheen]

Becky Jackson says Trans Rights 🏳️‍⚧️