#gwyn is a victim-turned-abuser

[stargirlfeyre]

The problem I have with the Valkyries friendship. PT 1

I wasn’t going to write this because I usually can’t be bothered to care about the friendship among these three but if their fans are so obsessed with over analyzing Feyre’s relationships…why can’t we?

One of the main reasons people love to say that the Valkyries are better than than IC is because they would never choose anyone over Nesta but the problems lies in the fact that…they have no one to choose over her.

Let’s break it down.

Gwyn has no one in her life right now. No family and no close friends outside of the Valkyries. I mean you can say that she’s friends with some of the priestesses but close friends? The same can be said for Emerie. She has a family but an abusive one. She is an outcast in her community, runs her shop alone, and like Gwyn has no friends outside of the Valkyries.

Their friendship with one another isn’t even treated as important as their friendship with Nesta. Because of this they look less like a trio and more like Nesta and Gwyn//Nesta and Emerie.If one of them is mad at Nesta who are they going to go to? The other person in their group who also is friends with Nesta and has loyalty towards her? Y’all say that Gwyn and Emerie would never put anyone over Nesta and does that include one another? Is their loyalty and friendship towards Nesta more important than the one they have with each other? In canon it sure is treated as such.

Praising the Valkyries because they would never put anyone above Nesta is not only a void point because they have no one to put above her, but it’s also reinforces the toxic view a lot of Nesta fans have when it comes to her relationships. They don’t want her to have friends, they want her to have followers. They want undying loyalty and turn a blind eye to the obvious shitty writing when it comes to Gwyn’s and Emerie’s relationships outside of Nesta because them lacking those relationships means that Nesta will always have that undying loyalty.

A problem that people have with the Valkyries is they aren’t their own characters when you really think about it. A lot of their characterization surrounds Nesta. And that’s why Nesta’s fans have zero problem with them. Whereas when it comes to the Inner Circle they are their own people before they are Feyre or Rhys’ friends. They have multiple people who are important to them instead of their lives just revolving around this one person. Their relationships with one another is equally as important as their relationships with Feysand.

Gwyn and Emerie are less characters and more like tools for Nesta’s healing journey. All confirmed when, after hearing about how Nesta abused her sister, Emerie of all people went on to say she’s absolved of any fault. Emerie, who is a victim of familial abuse herself, thought it was her place to forgive Nesta’s abuse towards other people. You genuinely want me to believe that some of the things these girls do weren’t written with the sole intention of healing Nesta?

They are not their own people. That’s why it’s easy for this fandom to self-insert onto Gwyn and blatantly ignore Emerie. They don’t have a big enough presence in these books to force you to pay attention to who they actually are. Without Nesta they kind of just fade into the background. You can hate or love members of the IC but at the end of the day you see them.

There’s also a lot to be said about their relationship from Nesta’s end and why she latched onto them…

[acourtofthought]

Giving gifts to Gwyn while supposedly in love with Elain and also feeling a spark in his chest for Gwyn feels a lot like emotional cheating and that's triggering to me because I was cheated on by my first boyfriend.

Therefore I request no e/riel artwork during ElainWeek because of it especially not of her wearing said necklace.

See how that goes? It's very easy to play this game, using our past experiences as a way to police what others can share.

Also, Sarah doesn't need to like Tamlin for others to create Tamlain content, that's literally not how fandom works 😂

Sarah also clearly doesn't like the idea of e/riel either considering she had Rhys (someone she loves) hand Az his ass in the bonus, shutting that shit down like a Spirit Store in December yet that doesn't seem to stop Elain Week from turning into another e/riel week.

Sarah once made people believe in Tamlin and Feyre then later told us Tamlin's behavior wasn't appropriate. It seems clear some are still stuck on e/riel in exactly the way many of us thought Feyre and Tamlin were happy in book 1. They're missing how Sarah spoke of Tamlin being the bad guy after Feyre ended up leaving with Rhys, how she revealed the true issues with his behavior in the book which had Feyre's endgame romantic arc. Therefore trying to claim Az's actions towards Elain and Tamlin's towards Feyre's are different doesn't hold any weight because they're at a different point in their setup, Elain hasn't had her romantic arc book yet. The foundations are identical though. Now that we see the path Tamlin went down in book 2 it's really strange how some miss the similarities with what she's doing with the e/riel ship. Feyre and Tamlin had cute moments until she later showed us how toxic they were together. We didn't notice those issues in ACOTAR but she really delved into them in the book after.

Just because Az will not end up written to be a bad guy like Tamlin doesn't mean he wasn't starting to demonstrate the same behavior towards Elain, something he was in CANON called out for by Rhys and Amren. Sarah halted Az turning into Tamlin by pulling the plug on e/riel on Solstice. She halted Az turning into Tamlin by pulling the plug on Moriel. But we saw her write Az as getting into physical fights (or willing to) over these two females, not giving credit to these two females for what they're capable of, getting into fights with their friends over a female (just like the Tamlin and Lucien situation). Of course Az isn't as bad as Tamlin, but the key word to that is yet. Tamlin's rage caused him to explode a room. Rhys knocked Az from his rage before Az did something he regretted. He was on the exact same path that Tamlin was before his behavior escalated and that's why Sarah introduced a new possible love interest for Az. One we see him finally have a healthy and natural reaction too. One he's not overly fixated on being protective of (a major issue for Az just as it was for Tamlin).

Gwyn doesn't have to change Az, she hasn't even done anything but be herself. Az is just different around her all on his own.

Tamlin with Feyre:

Az, Az with Mor, and Az with Elain:

Az with Gwyn:

Just because Bloomsbury added a number for the Domestic Abuse Hotline it doesn't mean that domestic abuse is the only thing that triggers people while reading these books, we all have different experiences so we view the characters a certain way. (Bloomsbury is not a Board Certified Mental Health Professional, correct?). For some of us we do see Az acting a lot like Tamlin at times and time will tell if Sarah agrees, that she purposely wrote him as coming close to falling victim to the same issues but pulled him back just in time.

Therefore any group claiming their trigger is more valid than someone else's, claiming one trigger is more serious than another, is making themselves more important than the rest and is not an all inclusive group no matter what you're trying to convince yourselves of. To gaslight they'll say we're making light of domestic abuse while in reality they're the ones carelessly using abuse as a way to promote their fictional ship by tearing down others (i.e. Gwyn can't have a kinky sexual relationship because of her SA sending the message that SA survivors can't enjoy certain forms of sex).

Someone is always going to be triggered by something, even if it's something you personally enjoy so who is anyone to elevate themselves to judge and jury?

Shaming an actual person by saying they're gross for liking the idea of something in a make believe world, that they're not welcome because of their "disgusting" fantasy is you creating actual abuse to an actual person versus something that only happened to a make believe character of a make believe species in a make believe world.

And yes, horrible things happen to people in real life but Fantasy Books are not real life therefore your real life morals need not apply.

So basically a good tagging system / Master List would be a good way for all to enjoy without people having to be left out because of someone's trauma.

[aboheadcanons]

TK Strand [9-1-1 Lone Star]

Male / Omega

Raised by two betas super thrilled and open-minded over their boy's sex and gender, TK lives within his dynamic confident about who he is. It also meant a lot of awkward conversations with both his (divorced) parents.

Got into marijuana as a teen to ease his heats. Graduated to harder stuff as time went on, and started using before and after his heats until it became frequent drug abuse. His life-threatening addiction resulted in an intervention by his mother Gwyn. He can no longer take suppressants because of this drug abuse early in life

Thankfully, his heat cycle is consistently regular because of life without suppressants. He is rarely caught surprised, has at least two apps tracking his heat cycles, and pays obnoxiously close attention to his diet and lifestyle habits as an adult just in case it alters his cycle.

Loves and loves deeply. After the disaster break-up with Alex and subsequent relapse, he is hesitant to attach himself to the doe-eyed Carlos.

His pheromones have been known to cause problems -- for Carlos, actually, whenever the alpha happened to be on scene at a call. When he noticed the police officer having trouble concentrating giving Captain Strand a situation report whenever TK was standing nearby, the omega started wearing scent patches. Turns out it was only Carlos affected -- only God knows why -- and when the two finally got together, it seemed to settle.

Empathetic, sometimes to a fault, his presence grounds Carlos in a way his alpha never expected someone could.

TK also tends to push Carlos' buttons in a way the alpha never believed someone could. The two broke up at least three times in the first two years of their relationship as they attempted to figure out each other's boundaries. An endless cycle of miscommunication tended to plague their early relationship.

As a paramedic, TK does find himself on calls that involve omega victims of domestic violence and sexual assaults. He has long conversations with Carlos after work on normal days, but after calls like this? Sometimes it involves long discussions about the upbringings of gender dynamics and the sociological reasonings behind such attacks. Philosophical discussions can ensue, but unanswerable questions cannot be answered.

Wants kids. After marrying Carlos, he so desperately wants kids and adores seeing Carlos with the Vega and Ryder children. And not being on suppressants means that accomplishing that shouldn't be hard. But it is, and despite all odds, TK and Carlos fail to conceive the first three heats he has after the decision to go all in.

TK understandably becomes frustrated, emotionally charged and angry at himself for this 'failure'.

When they do finally conceive, TK only puts two and two together when his balance becomes compromised -- he finds he's 'tripping' over things that aren't there. When he tells Carlos he thinks something's wrong with him, Carlos hesitates and says he's noticed TK's scent has... shifted a little.

[nikethestatue]

It's very weird that those stans always end up finding anti g*yn/g*ynriel & anti vals posts even if the post is tagged correctly. One just can't talk about how they don't like these characters in peace without them throwing a tantrum over it.

We can't dislike g*yn or even make a theory about her being a LS because she's a victim, we can't hate l*cien because he's been through so much but they can hate on elain, feyre, mor and rhys (all of whom are survivors) all the time.

Also where's this sexual tension and chemistry between e/ucien? Elain can't stand him and they call this romance lmao

I think that Gwynriels are really deluding themselves when they think that SJM couldn't make Gwyn a negative character. Just like she could potentially do with Elain.

'Always bad'--probably not. Somewhat bad? Totally. Enchanted. Possessed. Influenced. Absolutely.

This think that her SA is like a cart blanche--she is infallible and could never be made into anything other than a perfect person. SJM pretty much takes almost every messed up character and makes them even worse, before she makes them better.

Tamlin was abused--he is still a dick.

Dorian was possessed.

Danika died and turned out to be a liar, who couldn't tell her own BF anything about what she was doing. Even that she was mated.

Tharion--sold his soul to a witch.

Lucien was physically and sexually abused--still was willing to use force on Feyre and bring her back to his abusive friend Tamlin.

Manon was abused, but ended up killing her own sister.

Chaol--severe parental abuse and still was a dick to Celaena.

Eris--abused, still a dick.

Even Merrill--hangs out in the Library, full of abused women, still a dick.

Rhys--severely abused, but some of his methods are questionable at best.

I can go on and on.

There is a reason SJM is making Gwyn an LS. And if her fans think it's because she is going to be singing duets with Azriel, that would be very incorrect.

It's okay to be grey and interesting. No one wants to read about 'perfect' characters.

[not-poignant]

Thanks for answering my ask about Arden’s POV! Makes total sense. Totally different style question, but in your opinion will Gwyn and Ef be able to come together again in the far future and have a relationship of some sort with heavy boundaries, or will it be better for them to not ever speak again? I could see it both ways so I am curious. Anyway thanks for writing! FFS has become a comfort fic for me as a “bad” ocd haver…

Hi hi

Yes! Actually that's very much what I imagine (that they do meet up again in the future). The reason Efnisien cut Gwyn off now was, in many ways, so that they could have some kind of connection in the future.

If things continued as they were now they would have never learned how to be healthy together. For a start, Gwyn had zero accountability for his own actions, because anything toxic he did, he threw under the 'you started it' bus. Which is not useful to, well, anyone. Even Gwyn. Gwyn's only going to learn that accountability with better therapy, and some time to actually process his childhood and what he experienced.

Likewise, Efnisien needs to learn how to respect himself around folks like Gwyn, and how to stand up for himself and his boundaries healthily. Gwyn violated his boundaries literally every single visit they ever had, and even the times Efnisien did weakly try to stand up for himself, Gwyn consistently and repeatedly ignored him. It's safe to say that was happening for years before this story started. So Efnisien certainly needs to learn to a) stand up for himself more firmly around Gwyn and b) walk away with a strong 'if you keep treating me like this you do not get my presence, period' if Gwyn ignores him.

I do think they can get there with time (a significant amount of time, like a decade or two). I think especially once Efnisien doesn't need Gwyn in any shape or form, and Gwyn has sort of learned some perspective on how he wants to treat people in general, including people that treated him badly (i.e. if he wants to go down the path of Lludd, which he's tentatively done already (Gwyn is, actually, extremely violent, and attempted to murder Efnisien, and did not stop himself - but was stopped by Augus), or if he actually wants to develop a personal ethical code, which Efnisien is lightyears ahead of vs. him - largely because of choices Efnisien was forced to make, and Hillview).

Honestly I like to imagine that one day they do meet, and Efnisien has pet dogs (or a pet dog) of his own, and as soon as Gwyn looks at them like 'oh god what are you doing to them' Efnisien's like 'right, see ya!' because he's just not going to put up with that anymore after the years and years and years of hard work he's done on himself. And then at their second meeting, Gwyn is much better lmao, and he actually gets to know Efnisien as a person, and they start figuring out a new path forward together. :)

[adelindschade]

Okay . Don’t hold your breath. My writing is shit because I’m on the phone and it notoriously hates me. Forgive any typos. I’ll be kicking myself for them later.

Give me Gwyn, bestselling fictional crime writer who promoted herself from a true crime podcast to a New York Times Best Seller and top author in her category. It started with founding her first book off her sister’s gruesome murder but changing names and location. Instant hint. Bringing in bucks, awareness, and enough notoriety under a alias to get the heck out of her small town and into a cozy big city apartment looking out to the stars.

15 years later she gets a fan mail commending her work and coaxing her to write something personal - and so she publishes her next big thing. “What came out of the cauldron” based off of a fictional supposed murder (no body found) and - twist - said victim is actually alive! A whole ass theory as to how she might be living as someone else completely (because who doesn’t love a twist and perhaps happy, open ended conclusion??)

Only - it garners a lot of attention and stirs up conspiracy about the how it relates too closely to Nesta Archeron’s disappearance. The supposed drunk who fell down the stairs and in a daze walked out into the cold, and into the Calderon river where she presumably drowned and the current whisked her body away. Never to be seen again. So many suspects had been interrogated but never charged. The emotionally abusive ex. His so called best friend who had made her jealousy known. The irate brother in law who has wished her dead. The detached sister who happily packed her bags with no remorse as she was told she’d be leaving to rehab on short notice.

Azriel reads this, still supporting his once close friend, and rediscovering so many similarities with the character and the scene to Nesta and the actual crime scene! It can’t be coincidental! He had to figure out who all the players were. The best friends who staged the bloody staircase and subsequent footsteps in the snow. The delivery driver that possibly trafficked Nesta across state lines, hidden away from customs and search parties. The new identity she might be living under!

He’s fuming, having his family suspected of something heinous while grieving a sister. He was going to clear their names, their reputation, and being Nesta home to face the truth of her actions - whether it be justice or a long talk to begin healing.

He has to find Gwyn but she won’t talk to him, having been rebuffed when she tried to kiss him at a holiday party and he turned away, already heartbroken from Mor and then Elain. He thought she deserved better - and instead, she spitefully staged the death of Nesta, helped her evade authorities, and made mountains of money profiting on loosely based crime novels that helped her reinvent herself.

[gimme-mor]

ACOTAR THINK PIECE: ELAIN ARCHERON, UNTOUCHABLE

*DISCLAIMER*

This will be a long post.

Please take the time to read this post in its entirety and truly reflect on the message I am trying to send before commenting. My goal is to use my background in Gender and Women’s Studies to deconstruct the comments I have seen on Tumblr and Twitter and bring awareness to the ACOTAR fandom.

The reason I am tagging “Elriel” in this post is to call attention to the arguments in the Elriel fandom that: weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions about Elain’s character and her relationship with Lucien; victimize Elain’s character in fandom discussions; and coddle Elain’s character, which limits fandom discussions about her narrative development and prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions in the same way that the fandom holds other characters accountable for their actions and inactions. It is for these reasons that I WILL NOT remove the “Elriel” tag from this post because all of the above points contribute to the toxic discourse surrounding Elain’s character.

I urge those who use these arguments to understand their implications, why they are problematic, regardless of intent, and reexamine their contributions to the ACOTAR fandom. I WILL NOT tolerate anyone who tries to twist my words and say I am attacking people and their personal shipping preferences. In fact, I AM CRITIQUING THE ARGUMENTS THEMSELVES NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE ARGUMENTS.

Also, I highly encourage the Elriel fandom to read this post because it addresses how the concept of choice as an argument enables arguments to exploit social justice and feminist languge in order to vilify Elucien shippers, among other problematic things.

Elain Archeron is one of the most polarizing characters in the ACOTAR fandom. Though opinions about Elain vary, arguments in the Elriel fandom cite society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters as the reason behind the hate, and this belief is used to provide an explanation as to why other characters in the series are favored over her. In the series, Elain is portrayed in a wholly positive light and this image carries over into the Elriel fandom, painting her character as a good and kind female who has been unfairly wronged and a victim of circumstances that were out of her control. When arguments in the Elriel fandom oppose other viewpoints in the fandom, they fall into one of three categories:

Category 1: Weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions

Maybe people who hate Elain are just jealous of her in a weird way similar to when someone hates the pretty, nice, and charming girl in school just because she is too perfect

Disliking Elain is misogynistic

What happened to feminism? What happened to women supporting women? What happened to she can say no? All of that disappears the second you force Elain to be with Lucien

Elain antis are misogynistic

All Eluciens are Elain antis

Antis claiming they’re feminists when in reality they hate on Elain and Feyre but love Nesta

Elain antis are such sore losers. Y’all were that bunch of people who could not get over being rejected from hanging out with the cool kids so y’all are projecting your hatred towards pretty people now to get validation

I don’t get how Elain’s love for gardening equals boring for some people. I’m sorry your misogyny finds traditionally feminine activities boring

Why are you attacking a female? What did Elain do? Where are your feminist voices?

The fandom is misogynistic towards Elain

If people loved Elain they would ship Elriel

If you hate Elain it says a lot about your feelings toward women

If you hate Elain because she has no “development” then you must hate Azriel because otherwise you’re misogynistic

Eluciens are turned off by the idea of a woman that has the autonomy to reject a man for the simple reason that it is her choice

Eluciens are all about feminism and “it’s HER choice” until it comes down to females not wanting a male

Eluciens don’t respect Elain’s feelings when they ship her with someone that was part of her trauma and makes her feel uncomfortable

The way some Elucien shippers completely disregard how uncomfortable Elain is around Lucien is so hilariously not funny. Prioritizing being mates over Elain’s feelings is just regressive

It’s hard as a fan of Elain to see someone ship her with a person who makes her physically uncomfortable to be around. Wouldn’t you want both characters to be happy to be around each other

Imagine if SJM saw all the awful things her “stans” had to say about Elain

It’s true that we know comparatively little about her, but is she really boring or do you just not value stereotypically feminine traits?

So y’all are just gonna tell me you prefer Elucien over Elriel? Even though Lucien treats Elain as if she’s something that belongs to him? The only reason he wants to be with her is because she’s his mate, he doesn’t respect her, doesn’t treat her as his equal, even though that’s what mates should be? He doesn’t bother to look past what’s on the outside to see her for who she is. And Elain is obviously repulsed by the idea that she should belong to anyone or have no choice in who she can be with. Azriel is her friend and the only person who sees her quiet strength. He has so much faith in her, in her abilities; he’s the one who kept her company when no one else did, he’s the only one who bothered to see her for more than her brokenness. You’re going to tell me you still prefer Elucien over Elriel?

The more I see Gwynriels that ship Elucien out of their hate for Elain, the less I can understand Elain stans that ship Elucien. Pls Elain has made it very clear that she doesn’t want Lucien, why would you ship her with him? Do you hate her too? Smh

The real question would be, if you care and understand Elain why would you ship her with Lucien (where she canonically shrinks when he is near)?

People crying over Helion and Lucien’s mom not getting to be with each other and her being forced into a relationship she didn’t want, but also ship Elucien? Just say you hate Elain

When Elain’s book is out, Gwyn stans will look like clowns and I will laugh because they set her up by shipping her with Azriel just because they hate Elain. Watch them play the victims now because Elriels are clapping back the hate they’ve sent towards Elain

As romantic as wanting girl who is visibly uncomfortable around a guy who caused her trauma to end up with the said guy. Guess their standards for romance are in hell

Category 2: Victimize Elain’s character

Gwynriels only want Gwyn with Azriel because they despise Elain

Gwyn stans and Gwynriels are Elain antis

No one in the books dislike Elain, so why are there so many people who do?

Elain hasn’t done anything wrong or questionable to warrant the hate she gets

Not having Elain’s POV makes it easy for people to be swayed a certain way about her character if you already don’t relate to her in some way

It’s been years since this series came out and we haven’t gotten a lick of an Elain POV, but people still hate her for what? We don’t know her thoughts, dreams, or aspirations

We haven’t even had Elain’s perspective yet and people are passing these judgments off on her

Elain antis who say she’s boring are just cruel when she has obvious symptoms of PTSD like Feyre and Nesta

Gwyn is one of the most overhyped characters and that’s only because most people hate Elain and they couldn’t wait to find a random girl to ship Azriel with

Nesta was abusive to her sisters but Elain (who has only ever been kind) is painted as the villain

From the text we know that Elain is the epitome of feminine stereotypes (gentle, gardening, baking, non confrontational for the most part). Yet people still call her boring or deny that she has any interesting character traits?

You can’t love Nesta and hate Elain

People hate Elain because of internalized misogyny and lack of taste. All the girl does is tend to her garden and mind her business and they treat her worse than Tamlin

Does Gwyn deserve all this support? Of course yes! She is amazing! But where’s that support when Elain was in the same situation as she? Where’s that support for her right now? Why do they idolize Gwyn for her interactions with Azriel and hate Elain for having any interaction with him?

It’s not even a ship war anymore, they just hate Elain

People hate Elain for no reason

Some of y’all don’t like feminine traits and it shows

We know less about Eris and Helion but people don’t call them boring. Why would rejecting femininity make Elain more interesting?

Elain has had a lot forced upon her

The main reason I believe most people love Gwyn so much is to get Azriel away from Elain. It’s not a secret that Elain has been a widely hated character for years so suddenly we get a new female who has a minimal amount of interactions with Azriel and BOOM. New ship that once again doesn’t make sense (just like Azriel x Emerie after ACOFAS)

Elain hasn’t done something so terrible for her to get this hate. At this point some of you are just being misogynistic and you don’t want to accept it. Don’t call yourselves feminists and then say bs like this, it’s embarrassing. She’s pretty and everyone agreed to hate on her

Just a personal feeling, but I feel like a lot of the Elain hate stems from internalized misogyny. That to be a strong female lead, you need to pick up a sword and fight. That to be strong, you need to adapt traditionally masculine traits

Elain is feminine. She is beautiful. She loves to bake and garden. She is docile, quiet, observant, and a people-pleaser. All traditionally feminine traits. Yet for some reason, she’s like the worst in these people’s eyes?

I think also maybe a lot of people can’t relate to her femininity? That her being so beautiful and quiet doesn’t allow for the people who dislike her not to self-insert? Most of the hate stems from people not wanting Elain to be with Azriel. It’s mean, but maybe the people who hate Elain literally just can’t self-insert if they have a story and that’s why they’re vehemently against it?

Poor Elain. The Cauldron dealt her a bad deal. Upon emerging as Fae, she is immediately declared by Lucien as his mate, never mind that she was already engaged to a prick. Her love life is not good

It blows my mind how they really think that they can compare all the shit that Elain gets with some dumb jokes about Gwyn on Twitter (and yes, the “hate” towards her started mostly because Elriels are clapping back, it was bound to happen)

I would think of it as anti-feminist with Elain and Lucien because she has consistently stated that she does not want him so if she was forced to embrace the bond that would be taking away her right to have a choice but with Az she feels comfortable around so if they were mates then Elain would be happy and feel safe which again should be the priority for women to feel safe in their relationships with anything and to not be forced into any type of situation aka the mating bond in this

Category 3: Coddle Elain’s character

Elain has value the way she is, in all her domestic girly glory. Not every character has to be badass

We don’t speak of Elain’s flaws frequently because everyone else already speaks badly of her, mainly in an unfair way

There is definitely something deeper going on with Elain but by no means will she ever be evil or any less feminine. That goes against everything we already know about her

It’s ok to critique Elain because she needs growth but y’all keep forgetting the shit her and her sisters went through

The last “bad” thing Elain did in ACOTAR was not help Feyre when they were impoverished and I’m tired of people acting like she’s a terrible character when it was their father’s responsibility. It happened 4 books ago and Feyre has forgiven both Nesta and Elain

Elain’s character and the evil Elain theory are a great example of the trend where people only consider female characters interesting if they reject femininity

We don’t know enough to hate Elain

Many people want Elain to turn evil (which in my opinion seems to come from a place of internalized misogyny)

However we don’t tend to talk about her faults, at least not publicly, as that has been, and still is, done to death, and I--personally, at least--find it much more fun to theorise about potentially interesting aspects of the overall plot, than dwell on negatives

And ultimately, I would be shocked if Elain has a more karmically-charged story than Nesta, considering that Elain’s “wrongs” are so much less severe and bad than Nesta’s, and Elain has already apologized for them (or paid the price in other ways, like through what Graysen did)

I guess I also think Elain has suffered and been punished enough. I hope her story is about finding hope in terrible situations, and learning to love her new life, and choosing her own path after everything that has been done to her. I don’t think she needs to be punished anymore or face any additional trauma

Also, why is she being judged on her decisions as a human at all? Fae are monsters to humans! They enslaved them for thousands of years, and the Wall was erected to keep them out

Like I’m sorry, but think Elain would want to leave her ONLY FAMILY AND FRIENDS for the Spring Court where she has no one because--oh look, lots of flowers!--is the craziest thing I have ever heard

Her sisters are in the Night Court. Her nephew is in the Night Court. Her closest friends (Nuala and Cerridwen) are in the Night Court. Her love interest is in the Night Court. Her extended family is in the Night Court. Her home is in the Night Court

SJM isn’t going to keep two sisters together and split up the third. Especially not keep Feyre and Nesta together and separate Elain. They were either all going to end up in separate places, or together. Not 2 here and 1 there

Compared to the other female characters in the series, Elain is the only character whose femalehood is at the center of conversations; this is because arguments in the Elriel fandom fixate on it when discussing her character. While Elain, Feyre, Nesta, and Mor are all representations of white womanhood and white beauty, Elain epitomizes the most fragile version of white womanhood. It’s easy to blame society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters when it comes to the discourse surrounding Elain’s character because it: falls in line with the fixation on Elain’s femalehood to silence opposing viewpoints; is a simplistic explanation that fails to tackle the underlying issues with Elain as a character, the same issues that are downplayed in-universe; absolves Elain of her wrongdoings; prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions within the series; and diminishes the impact Elain’s actions and inactions have on those around her. It’s not that Elain is hated in the fandom because she’s a traditional female character; it’s the fact that arguments in the Elriel fandom deflect a critical analysis of Elain’s character because she’s a traditional female character who embodies the ideal white woman in need of protection. White fans and white-aligned fans of color, especially white women, have a tendency to vehemently defend, gatekeep, and coddle white female characters in fandom; this makes it difficult for other fans to engage in critical discussions about these white female characters because they’re viewed as flawless and all around perfect characters despite evidence to the contrary. Since Elain is viewed positively by the other characters in the series, it has rendered her character untouchable to any perceived slight or criticism in fandom discussions because those negative opinions challenge what has been said about her character thus far. And as a result, her character has been placed on a pedestal and implicitly hailed as the epitome of white womanhood; and when she’s criticized, it’s seen as a direct attack against white womanhood. Arguments in the Elriel fandom: exploit feminist language and perpetuate white feminist tactics under the guise of defending Elain’s character; center Elain in conversations about female oppression in the ACOTAR world and uphold white feminist ideologies in their critique of ACOTAR’s patriarchal society; and use the fragile white woman narrative to victimize Elain in Lucien’s presence, playing into racial biases that are associated with white supremacy’s defense of white womanhood.

Feminism is a social movement that seeks to promote equality and equity to all genders, and feminists work toward eradicating gender disparities on a macro-level, in addition to challenging gender biases on a micro-level. As feminism became more mainstream, a flat and oversimplified version of feminism emerged: mainstream feminism. The mainstream feminist movement is meant to represent all women, but rarely does it center conversations around issues that concern most women. The problem with mainstream feminism is that it’s just a popularized version of white feminism. White feminism has relied extensively on an individualized understanding of women’s oppression, exclusively from the lens of privileged white women. White feminism only focuses on the oppression experienced by white, able-bodied, affluent, educated, cishet women; and it views gender as the key mode of privileged white women’s oppression, isolated from the privileges granted by their other social identities. White women can be and are oppressed under the patriarchy but only because they are women; their identity as women does not exempt them from the privileges granted by their whiteness. The term white feminist does not mean any feminist who is white, but refers to feminists who prioritize the concerns of privileged white women as though they are representative of all women. However, the term is not exclusive to white people. Because white feminism is so pervasive, people of other racial and ethnic backgrounds often buy into white feminism, believing that if they work hard enough, they may be able to reap its rewards.

Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism only recognizes the identity of being a woman, assumes that all women share common experiences of gender oppression, fails to address other social identities in relation to overlapping systems of oppression, and disregards privilege in relation to various social identities. Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism is palatable because it doesn’t seek to challenge the systems in place, instead its goal is to succeed within them. Essentially, mainstream feminism and white feminism are extensions of performative feminism. Performative feminism is a type of performative activism that’s used to describe feminist views that are surface level and solely for the benefit of one type of person. It’s a pretense which often has nothing to do with genuine activism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom normalize and promote performative feminism because the topic of feminism is only referenced when discussing Elain. This indicates that these arguments are engaging in disingenuous discourse to push a personal agenda within the ACOTAR fandom, and it becomes more apparent when they use white feminist tactics to shut down opposing viewpoints:

White feminists weaponize and exploit feminist language to silence the opinions of other women, especially when they’re called out for their problematic behaviors

White feminists use the phrase “Women supporting women” to defend other white feminists who exhibit problematic behaviors instead of holding them accountable 

White feminists weaponize phrases like “Women supporting women” and “You just hate women” to attack other women who disagree with them on any given topic

White feminists use phrases like “All women face challenges” and “Stop pitting women against each other” to sidestep conversations about privilege

White feminists divert conversations away from privilege and towards the Trauma Olympics to equate their struggles to the oppression of marginalized people 

White feminists skirt around the realities of other forms of oppression and discrimination, downplaying the experiences of marginalized people

White feminists diminish or ignore the ways in which gender oppression affects other marginalized people

White feminists paint those they harmed as aggressive, mean, or divisive when confronted with the ways they have harmed a marginalized group

White feminists deflect criticism by focusing on the anger or emotions being expressed rather than the issue that is being discussed, invalidating the concerns of marginalized people

White feminists speak over marginalized voices in an attempt to sound “woke”

White feminists get defensive and insist there’s no way they could be a part of the problem because of what they’ve done to help marginalized groups already 

White feminists say they don’t see color in an attempt to obscure racial issues that need to be addressed

White feminists center and victimize themselves in conversations about racism, which derails necessary conversations from taking place

White feminists who are white weaponize the intersectionality of their race and gender to avoid accountability

Feminism is not meant to be approached from an individualistic perspective nor is it only about addressing the experiences of privileged white women, it involves addressing the intersections of race, class, gender, sexuality, (dis)ability, and other social identities as well; and it involves addressing how these social identities relate to privilege. Moreover, feminism is not about women upholding complete loyalty to other women because of a shared gender identity, and to claim that it does implies that women should be held to different emotional standards than men. If men are able to dislike and criticize other individual men, real or fictional, without their characters being compromised, why aren’t women granted that same privilege?

It’s clear that SJM set up the ACOTAR world to mirror a patriarchal society, and that the imbalance of power between males and females stems from sexism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom analyze the ACOTAR world through a feminist lens to show how ACOTAR’s patriarchal society, to which the mating bond is innately tied, contributes to female oppression and limits their agency. When choice and free will are emphasized as part of Elain’s arc, they imply that Elain, through the mating bond, experiences female oppression under ACOTAR’s patriarchal society because of her identity as a female with that identity being the focal point of her oppression in the world. Elain is one of the most privileged characters in the ACOTAR world: she’s High Fae; she’s the sister of the High Lord and High Lady of the Night Court, which gives her access to wealth and political influence because of that connection; she’s able-bodied; she was magically blessed by the Cauldron; and she lives in Velaris, a place that grants females autonomy and power because of the beliefs of Rhysand and Feyre. Arguments in the Elriel fandom trivialize female oppression in the ACOTAR world because they disregard the fact that Elain’s privileges prevent her from experiencing female oppression in the same way that other marginalized females in the world do. The mating bond being one such example because those around Elain are not forcing the bond on her, instead they’re allowing Elain to reach a decision about the bond for herself; a privilege that other marginalized females in the world probably wouldn’t have. Just because Elain has endured hardships in her life and is a female in a patriarchal society, they do not erase the privileges she holds within the ACOTAR world. The failure to include Elain’s privileges in discussions about Elain being a female in a patriarchal society feeds into white feminist ideologies because white feminism operates from a very narrow perspective; it doesn’t take other intersecting identities into account when it examines gender oppression, leaving no room for discussions about privilege (or lack thereof) in relation to those intersecting identities. When discussing oppression in hierarchical societies, it’s imperative that privilege is also included in the conversation because privilege and oppression are not mutually exclusive; they equally affect the ways in which people navigate those societies through their social identities.

Rather than attributing Elain’s uncomfortability to her new life as a Fae female or the mating bond itself and her trauma to the Cauldron, the King of Hybern, or Ianthe, they’re placed on Lucien to cast his character in a negative light. Moreover, fandom discussions portray Lucien as a possessive character to further emphasize Elain’s discomfort despite the inaccuracy of this characterization in canon. Arguments in the Elriel fandom play into racial biases when it comes to Lucien (a male character of color) because they mischaracterize his character in order to victimize Elain (a white female character), placing her character in the role of the white damsel in distress. In Western society, the concept of womanhood has been conceptualized from a Eurocentric perspective with femininity and feminine attributes favoring white women. It’s the idea that a certain type of femininity is only inherent to white women as they are seen as the embodiment of an ideal womanhood. White womanhood has been a symbol of innocence and purity, and white women have been viewed as fragile beings in need of protection. The reason white womanhood functions within white supremacy is because it’s the same idea that has motivated white men to kill and beat black and brown men. The so-called protection of white women has been used as a justification for the horrific violence committed by white men because black and brown men were stereotyped as aggressive and seen as a threat to the virtue of white women. The white damsel in distress trope considered white women as worthy of protection because of their perceived innocence and purity; women of color were not granted that same treatment because they did not fit into the ideal image of womanhood. Over the years, this trope became a means for white women to exercise limited power in a patriarchal society with white women weaponizing their status as the damsel much to the detriment of black and brown men. It’s through the white damsel in distress trope that white supremacy sustains its dominance in Western society. The misrepresentation of characters of color in fandom, the dismissal of their importance to the overall story, and using them as tools in arguments centered around white characters are the foundation of fandom racism; they’re examples of how racism moves silently in fandom spaces. Instead of examining their behavior and taking constructive criticism from fans of color, white fans will often double down on their bigotry and center their uncomfortability in the conversation when confronted with their complicity in fandom racism. White fans expect fans of color to swallow fandom racism in its many forms in order to not ruin the experience of fandom, dismissing the fact that racism is prevalent in nearly every aspect of society. This mentality ensures that no one is held accountable for the harm they caused and alienates fans of color in fandom spaces.

To reiterate what I mentioned in my first think piece: terms like “oppression”, “the right to choose”, “feminist”, “feminism”, “anti-feminist”, “anti-feminism”, “internalized misogyny”, “misogyny”, “misogynist”, “sexist”, “sexism”, “racist”, “racism”, “classist”, “classism”, “discrimination”, and “patriarchy” are all used in specific ways to draw attention to the plight of marginalized people and challenge those who deny the existence of systems of oppression. Yet these words and their meanings can be twisted to attack, exclude, and invalidate people with differing opinions on any given topic. When social justice and feminist terms are thrown around antagonistically and carelessly to push a personal agenda, it becomes clear that these terms are being used to engage in disingenuous discourse and pursue personal validation rather than being used out of any deep-seated conviction to dismantle systemic oppression. Being an ally, activist, or feminist is not an identity, it’s a practice. It requires: ongoing self-reflection; holding ourselves accountable; listening to marginalized people; educating ourselves; dismantling implicit biases; challenging those around us who are exhibiting problematic behaviors; and action behind our words.

It’s important to be aware of the language that is used within the fandom when defending or critiquing characters and ships. It’s also important to question how an argument is framed and why it’s framed the way that it is to critically examine the intent behind that argument: is it used as a tool to push a personal agenda that reinforces problematic behaviors, or is it used as an opportunity to share, learn, enlighten, and educate?

-----------

Tagging: @spell-cleavers @bookofmirth @m0bulidae @ilya-boltagon

[feysandandnyx]

There are some things about ACOSF that just made me feel betrayed as a reader and that's at least half the reason I'm so disgusted with this book. I hate being played for an idiot. If you are a fan of Nesta, please ignore this post as it was not made for you.

The first reason was certainly to try to make Cassian a character similar to Nesta. He is not. And trying to do that was one reason Cassian was ruined in this book. Cassian didn't need a mission where he had to learn to be a courtier and Cassian's flaws aren't the same as Nesta's flaws. Cassian never had a choice about whether or not Rhysand stayed under the mountain, Nesta always had choices at his disposal and she never tried. If Cassian could save Rhysand from Amarantha, that's what he would have done, without hesitation. So his flaws aren't the same and trying to compare him to Nesta was just ridiculous to me.

Second, when Nesta finally opens up to Emerie and Gwyn, I laugh. Seriously, I laughed. Gwyn and Emerie were people reporting assaults that they suffered, they were victims of abuse. They didn't have a choice. Emerie couldn't control the aggression she suffered inside her home, her family. Gwyn cannot control anything about her sister and her body. Gwyn was given no options. Gwyn and Emerie were hurt and all Nesta managed to say in this conversation is how she was the abuser of people (And we know she chose to be like that). Those were the horrible things she did, she was the bully. Emerie and Gwyn were the victims. And Sarah tried to move me by victimizing an abuser by using victims for it (for the thousandth time in a 700-page book). Okay, your grandma and her mother (this bad grandma came out of nowhere 🤡). But Nesta always had choices. These people died. She became someone free. And yet she allowed herself to be held hostage to it. Nothing convincing to me. It was just ridiculous to read this character explaining how she was a bully to characters who were reporting assault histories. Ah but Tomas. Okay. He so deserved to die for what he tried. But it was still weird for me Nesta to be willing to sell her body (poor girls), when she knew how to use a bow and arrow and worse, she knew how to dance so well that she made a duke propose at the age of 14. So honey, why did you never use your talents to save your family (correction, save Elain). Why be so dramatic that you want to prostitute yourself when you hit an arrow on the target on the first try?

How strange your drama... Not the attempted sexual assault, but all the way you went to Tomas. If you knew how to use a bow so well, you could go hunting with Feyre to make sure Elain didn't go hungry, as that was your concern.

You could win anyone over if you knew how to dance so well. You could start your own dance school if you got everyone enchanted with a few spins. How about private lessons at the nobles' house? If you're so talented, you would have done it, you would have doubled them all. You would have done it for Elain if it was canonical by then. If Sarah wasn't trying to give you reasons to be horrible and still justified. Why then suddenly the only option was to sell your body to someone you swore you were no good and yet you felt entitled to assault your little sister for telling you the obvious? For telling you something you were already aware of. Wow Sarah. These things just didn't fit the narrative for me 🤷

Third, hate Rhys, but he always had a plausible reason for not liking Nesta. A reason that by the way is canonical and that even Nesta has done this in 99.9% of the ACOSF. She hurt Feyre and treated her even with disrespect. Rhys just didn't like it. His motive is very good and all Nesta can give me about Rhys is that she didn't like him because he's an asshole. Was this supposed to be funny, Sarah darling?I get the feeling you've been trying to minimize the situation between Nesta and Rhys all along. Like you did with Feyre.

How about you tell me you didn't like him because he went to Feyre what you and your sister never were? That he saved Feyre's life when you failed him and his success pissed you off? Seriously, you don't like him because he's an asshole? Do you find Rhys arrogant even after you heard how he bowed to Amarantha or how he was willing to bow to anyone who would save Feyre? Rhys may be cute, he may have outer layers that turn people off, but at heart he's neither of those two things and it was just ridiculous to read Nesta's hatred of Rhys plus the fact that she thought he was an asshole. Then in the end he's her brother when I didn't feel his brotherhood in a part and 700 pages (and neither did his love for Feyre), so for God's sake. I hate that. I feel betrayed and an idiot as a reader. I expected more from Sjm. She managed to make me like Nesta less. I just want to forget that I read this book 😭

PS: I'll just leave it here that I'm not invalidating your trauma, but the way it was written was contradictory for me and unconvincing too. This was much more a problem of writing than of the character itself. Who is failing here is much more Sarah as a writer than Nesta. If you've read it and liked it that's fine, but I didn't find Nesta's motives consistent with the story itself, not even close.

[yazthebookish]

I don't know how many times we have to repeat this but... (this is my own opinion based on everything I had a look at and analyzed)

We know Gwyn is not getting her own book.

There are two books left

There is one bat boy and one Archeron sister left

Both need to fill in Main Characters roles because each has a lot to unpack and follow their journey.

There is Book 5 and Book 6 left

Naturally and with ACOSF setting up Illyrian/Valkyrie plotline along with Koschei/Queens. Everything is pointing out to Azriel being next (he got his own POV chapter come on)

The Illyrian issue was heavy in ACOSF and with Sarah pushing it back instead of having it in Nessian's book, it's likely will have to be dealt with in Azriel's book, the character that hates them the most. I know there are arguments about Azriel not having to help his people because they are the cause of his misery but let's not forget there are many victims like Azriel of the abusive and sexist Illyrian system (including another Illyrian: Emerie)

Azriel will be the MC of Book 5 with Gwyn as his supporting MC.

Elain will be the MC of Book 6 with Lucien as her supporting MC.

To me, this order makes sense the most.

Each book, like ACOSF, will have two POVs and not only one POV if you'll claim SJM won't write a purely male POV. We will get a female and a male with each book.

Vassa is not even fit to be a supporting MC. She doesn't even have 90% of the development Gwyn got in ACOSF + it's been stated in ACOWAR and ACOSF that she will go back (very soon) to Koschei. I don't think Sarah will write a POV of a character that'll turn into a Firebird for 80% of the book. Not when her plotline is linked to Elain.

Elain shifted her face toward him. Another blink. “They sold her—to … to some darkness, to some … sorcerer-lord …” She shook her head. “I can never see him. What he is. There is an onyx box that he possesses, more vital than anything … save for them. The girls. He keeps other girls—others so like her—but she … By day, she is one form, by night, human again.” “A bird of burning feathers,” I said. “Firebird by day,” Rhys mused, “woman by night … So she’s held captive by this sorcerer-lord?” Elain shook her head. “I don’t know. I hear her—her screaming. With rage. Utter rage …” She shuddered.

Lucien is linked to Vassa and Koschei. He was there when Papa Archeron made a deal with Koschei to free Vassa. And so, Lucien is also linked to Elain.

About Gwyn, her healing journey is not over and with Sarah stating at the end of the book that Gwyn returned the library (after stating she is sick of staying there for two years) is keeping the door open for her. I mentioned this a few days ago but Sarah did confirm in the live that the next book will have a Pegasus and the Pegasi are connected to the Valkyries.

We can go in loops about this until Sarah confirms who the next book is about. If she confirms it's Azriel's book then I think it's safe to assume that Gwyn will share the book with him.

I hope Bloomsbury won't keep a tight hold on revealing who ACOTAR 5 is about for too long because there will always be conflict in the fandom until then.

[duskcowboy]

Rhys as a daemati vs. Gwyn as a lightsinger: A Comparison

In acomaf, Rhys describes daemati as the following:

“If you were to ever encounter a daemati without those shields up, Feyre, they’d take whatever they wanted. A more powerful one could make you their unwitting slave, make you do whatever they wanted and you’d never know it.”

I find it interesting that Rhys’ description of daemati includes how they are capable of manipulating others’ minds without their consent, how they can “make you their unwitting slave”. I find this interesting because who do we know that was forced into a form of (sexual) slavery? Rhys. And what is Rhys? Daemati. He has his past trauma, but that had no influence on the decision to give him powers that can also inflict pain or coerce others.

Now, compare this with the argument that theorizing Gwyn is a lightsinger is “wrong” or “gross” because of her past trauma. They argue that theorizing that someone who was SA’d being able to possibly lure or manipulate others is inherently inappropriate and contains negative connotations, but let’s take another look at Rhys and the daemati:

The daemati are powerful beings with an ability that enables them to control and manipulate others, turn them into their “slaves”, taking away their consent and autonomy

The two daemati from Hybern showed that there are those who use this power for evil, often assaulting and terrorizing their victims

Rhys shows how someone with those powers, even as powerful as he is, can choose to respect boundaries and use his powers for “good”

Rhys was under the control of and assaulted by Amarantha, but his character was still given these powers

Rhys is also accused by many readers of taking away Feyre’s consent and autonomy both when UTM and when he did not inform her of the risks of having Nyx, so his past SA does not mean he cannot also violate others or abuse his power

Saying Gwyn is potentially a lightsinger just acknowledges a power she may possess. We have no idea how that power could play out in the upcoming books. But to say that her past trauma somehow invalidates said theory doesn’t make a lot of sense, especially considering Rhys is a prime example of someone who has abilities that are described as terrifying and manipulative, but utilizes his powers to protect his people and his court, while simultaneously being capable of also making questionable decisions.

Many justify what Rhys did while UTM because he was protecting his court, but what if it’s the same for Gwyn? What if she’s being manipulated herself or coerced into using her powers? We don’t know.

The fact that these two characters do/may possess these powers is separate and unrelated to their SA. They both have choices, and there are lines that they either respect or cross.

Just like Rhys, Gwyn may have powers that would allow her to manipulate others, but we will have to see what she does with them—how she controls them.

[HUGE shoutout to @silverlinedeyes who helped me put my thoughts together for this post!! And for the OG lightsinger theory. Btw I think this is my last lightsinger post 😅 I know I’ve been on a little bit of a trip haha]

[lidiacervos]

I just saw an El/riel post in Gwyn's tag and they really said that SA survivors can turn evil. Their trauma doesn't change the path they would take or their personality or sum because Acotar is not like the reality and that what we are saying is problematic..?

Girl- you are fricking comparing a SA survivor to either a man- eating monster or a raper?!?! PLUS you are claiming that she lied about her past?! That's not problematic? It would be very problematic for the author to make a SA survivor lure people and eat them up! Especially a guy, when she was raped by men. Yes, we don't know what a SA survivor has in mind but in books the author knows and it would send such bad message to people. I've heard of some stories where people faked their trauma and made their "abuser" go to jail for many years- just some stories and that's in real life. It's a different case when an author makes the victim turn evil and that case is very harmful to many, many actual victims who experienced the same things in real life. In real life, SA survivors are already accused for "lying" and being made the "bad guy" in the story. Why do you think that so many SA survivors are quit about what happened to them? People are literally taking away their voice and make them out to be the "bad guy".

Are they soo dumb to understand how terrible it would be for SA survivors to read a book where the SA survivor turns out to have either lied about their past, turns out to be a raper or turns out to lure a guy and then kill him, JUST for a goddamn ship?!

Okay let's say you see a black person protrayed as this dangerous guy who lives in the "ghetto", secretly buys/sells drugs and keeps guns, or a Muslims protrayed as a terrorist who oppresses the women in a movie. People are mad because of how Muslims and Black people are protrayed- would you seriously say something like "Oh- there are so many Muslims and black people in the world who do exactly that! This person's religion and this person's skin color doesn't change the path they would like to take. You don't know what is up in people's mind" (Not comparing trauma, religion and ethnicity, I hope you get my point though)

I've heard from SA survivors that they were triggered of the way Sarah has written Rhys. He's a SA survivor who SA someone and that someone didn't care about that and fell in love with her abuser-but who also is a SA survivor. I've heard from people who were in toxic relationships, that they were triggered when Rowan punched Aelin and kept on bullying her or when Rhys took away Feyre's choice in acosf. The author hurt them with this and that is a big problem.

Gwynriels are mad at these theories but not hurt. It is SA survivors who they are actually hurting with these crack- a** theories. Doesn't matter from which ship they are from.

You really went for it in this ask, I can tell you’re frustrated and I hope writing out your thoughts helped! I’m not sure if I’ve seen the post you’re talking about but I think I understand

See, if you let e/riels go on long enough they always contradict themselves. I thought Gwyn couldn’t leave the library and have her own story because of her SA, because she hasn’t healed enough and some never do leave? I thought she couldn’t be with Az because of her SA, because Az is tOo KiNkY or he would be taking advantage as one of her trainers? Now, her SA isn’t allowed to be taken into account with the possibility of her working with Koschei or being a lightsinger? They are getting closer though, maybe in a few months they’ll realize Gwyn is more than the SA that they weaponize to suit their latest theory

I agree, SJM isn’t the type of writer who would use such a serious thing as a plot point for drama

We’ve all seen the problematic things their fandom has said. They’ve got “e/riel has to be endgame” blinders on right now. It’s all they care about unfortunately, so they’re unable to see or care about how their implications could be harmful

[bookofmirth]

Love how e//riels were so quick to excuse valid criticisms regarding racial biases in some of their arguments by using the defense “racism by skin color doesnt exist in the acotar world,” but when it comes to Gwyn having any involvement with Illyria they’re all “oh well hold on Gwyn is white so her involvement would be problematic.”

As a person of color, I cannot express how angry it makes me to see people excuse their ignorance by hiding behind the “it doesn’t exist in the book” argument as if not every single person reading it lives in a world where people are discriminated against because of the color of their skin. Yes the book characters live in that world, but we do not, and every theory and non canon characterization you make expresses your thoughts and biases as a person living in this world.

AND THEN to turn around and hypocritically imply that we are making out Gwyn to be this white savior, as if they did not dismiss racism in the acotar world not even a week ago, …I don’t have words for that.

And the best part is, not a single person ever implied Gwyn would single handedly fix the Illyrians. It was about Azriel and his personal issues, not about a ship. Like you’ve said, Gwyn is irrevocably connected to the Illyrians from the events of the Blood Rite, so is Emerie, and to some extent so is Nesta. I cannot believe some people would nitpick and twist a theory primarily about Azriel and his growth and use it to make a ship look bad. Seriously

Yes. This.

The thing is, even if race is acotar doesn't exist in the same way as it does here, guess where we live??? Guess where Sarah lives???? That's right.

Here.

They only use those arguments when it makes sense for them. All of the "omg I can't believe you are using an important real world issue in fandom 💀" right after they get pissed (and rightfully so!) at the idea of Gwyn playing white savior. All of the "ew Tamlin and Elain but he was abusive!" Is abuse not a real world issue? Cuz I certainly experienced it in the real world.

But like you pointed out, no one was centering Gwyn in that theory. Literally no one. The fact that Gwyn would be involved is inevitable. If people were able to critique the idea of centering Gwyn in the Illyrian conflict while also critiquing Elain's unassailable white womanhood, then I might take them seriously.

every theory and non canon characterization you make expresses your thoughts and biases as a person living in this world.

THIS. Even if we don't intend for it to happen, every single argument we make, whether it is about a fantasy series or what to have for dinner or what books we prefer or what analysis we construct, it reflects our position in the world. We should all realize that we aren't objective, ever, and we should be open to critique. If someone points out a shortcoming or a potential (even unintentional) instance of bias, the response isn't "aw but this hurts my feelings" 💀

I'll be honest, I am still annoyed af that people took the opportunity to have a frank conversation about race in the fandom, and instead tried to flip the conversation around to make themselves the victims. It's still a really important discussion to have, but they effectively trivialized it by making it look like a stupid fandom drama and making themselves the victims.

Thanks for this ask, it was really well-worded! And I'm glad that I'm not the only person who is still pissed off.

[acourtofthought]

I sometimes hate Azriel so fkn much... like I know I'm gonna love him at some point, there is no chance I wouldn't. sjm has a way with words but my god... right now... I HATE HIM SO FKN MUCH!!!

This character alone is the reason this fandom hate at least three female characters in this series: Mor, Gwyn, Elain

Mor is literally being hated for no reason. And it doesn't help the fact that she's also queer and a (SA) survivor from her abusive family. People say she's been leading Az for 5 century while idk how she could be anymore obvious about her choice on the matter. I mean if I had a little self-respect I wouldn't have chased a woman when it's clear she doesn't want to be chased and I think she did it in the best way to not hurt him and also keep things neutral and still be his friend but as we all know this man is a shadow daddy so he's the one being wronged y'know...

Gwyn being hated bc she's a barrier between two people of a non canon (I repeat NON CANON) ship and again she's a SA survivor and never been given a chance to choose for herself. She's being villainized to make some people feel better and hopeful that one day their ship will be canon and destroy the villain so they can make their way to each other (I'M HYSTERICALLY LAUGHING I CAN'T-) like if you talk about Gwyn alone to someone they would fall in love with her idk how they could put a villain arc in her story...

Elain again having no choice in becoming a high fae and the only character trait they made for her is in the circle of being a housewife for Azriel, if not that they completely forget her desire not to want to be a warrior or spy or anything that has to do with violence and make her a full spymaster (that actually doesn't make a single sense since he's so abundant to keep her safe all the time and not wanting to expose her to troves bc he thinks so little of her and not trusting her in handling these stuffs?) or the high lady of Prison... yeah she would thrive there absolutely!!! We don't know much about this character and still people make it like they do and put their ideas and fantasies in her while we've never been in her head once!!

As you can see why I hate him so much. (I know it's probably not much of his fault really but his stans and I really hate that about this fandom)

ps: I know there are other reasons to dislike Elain but honestly didn't we all hated Nesta before her book? I'm pretty sure sjm would make us love her INDIVIDUALLY and not bc her relationship with someone...

The Mor and Az situation is complicated and messy but at the end of the day, he has had 500 years to ask Mor to sit down and have a real conversation about whether she has interest in him.

Really, it's as easy as that.

It's never easy to want someone who doesn't seem to want you in return and maybe you give it some time to see if that changes. But no one gets to play the victim after 500 years of pining for someone and I'm not sure why the narrative is always "poor Az". Maybe he tried to confess his feelings after her assault but that's not an excuse for never trying again within the last 5 centuries. He's the one who wants to know so he's the one that needs to approach her, not vice versa.

And yeah, Gwyn has done nothing to warrant hatred from anyone. She doesn't have to be someone's favorite character but the agenda to turn her evil or be some cruel seductress trying to lure Az away from Elain is ridiculous. She doesn't even know Az likes Elain. She's never even MET Elain. It doesn't matter if E/riel is canon or not, if Gwyn was being flirtatious with Az, Az never felt it was inappropriate considering he didn't vocalize having feelings for someone else. Instead he raised his brows high in amusement. He didn't feel guilt over the thought of Gwyn's happiness sparking something in his chest. Why is blame being placed on Gwyn when she's completely clueless as to what Az does when he leaves the training ring?

And yes, Elain has a mate. Yes, Elain was about to kiss Az. But so what? Nesta all but declared her love for Cassian then turned around and slept with other males yet I have never seen anyone shame her for that. But Elain being ready to kiss Az when she has never made promises to Lucien makes her a terrible person? People really don't seem to grasp the fact that to the sisters, mate doesn't mean anything to them at the start of their journey's. They were HUMANS for 20 plus years. The mating bond is not sacred to them. If the mating bond is the equivalent to fae religion, then people are attacking Elain for not jumping right on board with fae religion when she was raised to believe in something else. She hasn't embraced being fae yet therefore she is not ready to deal with her mating bond. She just lost her fiance, give the girl some time to play the field before making another life long decision. And again, Lucien has never once said, "Elain, can we sit down and discuss our bond?" He keeps it surface level so she does too. Of course we know he'd like more than that but him desiring more and him actually approaching her with purpose (and not just tiptoeing around waiting for her to give him a sign) means he's being just as complacent.

AZ is the one who was raised to respect the mating bond yet he's the one who knew it was wrong to kiss Elain with Lucien in the house yet he didn't care. He's the one who is willing to burn bridges with an important ally with a female who he's never thought of beyond his sexual fantasies. He's the one who can't even admit to being completely over Mor.

The girls are so young compared to Az (Elain is 24ish and Gwyn is 28) but they are expected to behave impeccably while the 500 year old torturer gets free passes left and right. It makes no sense.

As far as your PS. I don't hate Elain at all. Sure she should have done more in the way of chores in the cabin at the start of the series but really, what has her big crime been since then? She was willing to risk her engagement for Feyre and allowed her to use their house in the human lands to meet with the queens. She's been kind to Feyre's new found family. She didn't blame Feyre for the fact that she was made. She helped Feyre by designing and maintaining her garden. She apologized in front of everyone for failing Feyre. She didn't blame Nesta for her fathers death. She wants to spend time with Feyre AND Nesta. Yes, she was disappointed to find Nesta wasn't getting better but only because Cassian told her he thought the training was helping. And no, she didn't understand what Nesta needed in order to heal but that's because Nesta refused to open up and pushed Elain away. It was easy for Nesta to sit beside Elain's bedside because all she had to do was read her book. Did Nesta EVER ask Elain for something which Elain refused to do? Did Nesta invite her out to the bar with her? Elain did reach out and Nesta, knowing it would hurt Elain and knowing that Elain was also struggling after the war and the death of their father told her to leave her alone.

I'm not going to blame Elain who is also dealing with trauma to not have the answers for Nesta's problems. It's not her job and she did make it known that she wanted to spend time with Nesta. Nesta rejected her offers and only showed up to get rent money for Feyre.

Really, it's funny to me how much hate the females of the series get. They are flawed but so are the males. They are not MORE flawed and actually, for how young they are and how recent (and major) their traumas are, I'd say they don't deserve the hatred coming their way.

[emeraldvagabond]

I think Sarah J would come across as a better writer if she admitted that she didn’t initially plan on Feyre being with Rhysand. I could give her a round of applause for managing to take what she started off with in TAR, and change something that she was personally bored/uninspired by and go onto write MAF, which is commonly regarded as the best book she has published out of all 19 books (I think she’s written around 19 but I could be miss counting). The romance still isn’t the best and that doesn’t excuse some of the gross stuff she writes later on in the series but I think that it’s far better then her trying to convince people that she actually did intend on Feysand being endgame from the beginning. Thinking about Maas writing Feyres SA by the hands of Rhysand with the explicit intention of twisting it to being something romanticized later on in the series makes my skin crawl. Id have so much more respect for her if she admitted the she tried her hardest to retcon everything

riiighhtt, thank you. In TAR Rhysand is clearly a villain. He's not mysterious, he's not "morally grey", he's not brooding or plotting or trapped. He's willingly working for Amarantha as a VILLAIN. He slaughters children and innocent fae. If he wasn't meant to be a villain why did he tell Amarantha about Feyre at all when he returned from the Spring Court, he had no need to mention her.

To be honest, yes Amarantha called the shots or whatever, but I would argue that Rhysand was even worse than her. He became her weapon, not her "whore" as he likes to say. That's not to say that him being SA'd by her wasn't bad or traumatic, i'm sure it was. But it's never addressed except when Keir calls Feyre a whore. (Which...the enitre CoN scene was very icky. She could have very well played any part but he said "No the only role for you is a slut, in front of the entire Court, beneath another mountain." like...he chose to do that. He's Highlord, he could have presented her as anyone and no one would have been able to argue with him. He chose that role for her, and why?)(And it makes him trying to have sex in a safe place for SA survivors that much more gross.) Which reads as....poorly retconning the situation. No offense.

But we get these women from the library, who after hundreds of years, are still afraid to even be around men. Because they have been abused by them continuously(also strange bc not to be like that, but everyone heals and processes and reacts different so why are all these fae EXCEPT Gwyn literally interchangeable? And then calling these women weak all throughout ACOFS? NASTY) meanwhile Rhysand shows no sign of anything. And absolutely I just said everyone heals and processes differently but.....he doesn't heal or process. He just exists. Is this her way of showing him as strong, compared to the "weak" way she writes Nesta and these other survivors? Or is it just a misogynistic view that men cannot be victims of SA seeping through into her writing?

And then we get to the scene where him and Feyre are about to mate and he spills all of his reasoning and tragic backstory etc....and he makes it all about him? I mean, that's something else. In TAR there aren't even these cracks in character where he is good, or doing the right thing. You could argue that he got into character really well or you could acknowledge that paired with the incentive and drive to do these bad awful things, and the lack of remorse.....makes him a textbook villain. HE suffered as he killed Clare. HE suffered as he killed those winter court babies. HE suffered as he abused Feyre every night. HE suffered as he tore through the whole of Prythian, unscathed because he chose that role.

And then later it's said that no, he didn't do that, that was another incredibly rare daemanti, who just....ceases to exist? Nowhere is this other fae under the mountain. They have no name, no court, no history, there aren't bits of them scattered throughout the first book, no well-hidden pieces of evidence that point to anyone else once you start looking.....it's just...Rhysand. And even then I argue if there WAS another instrument of her destruction, another Fae turned weapon...why not have THEM be the one to mistreat Feyre? If Rhysand was always end game, and there was always this other villain....why not have them....exist in any of the books?

[nikethestatue]

A few years from now when elriel is canon we'll be discussing this war ship like: remember when people wrote whole metas about Azriel's behaviour, calling him the next tamlin, a danger to women while shipping him with a victim of SA? Lol crazy times.

I know, right? And all that so sweet perfect Lucien can claim his rightful property (Elain) and breed her like a mare.

Make it make sense!

How do you write a meta about Azriel's anti-female behavior and then turn around and in the same breath state that you are a Gwynriel! Yet say that he 'tortured' and abused Mor with his behavior. And only wants Elain for sex. But would make a wonderful partner for Gwyn. Crazy times indeed.

[tovelarisdreams]

Hi! I saw your comments in a recent post where a gwynriel asked why people thought gwyn is a lightsinger and I felt compelled to reach out to you to say I AGREE and I am so sorry for the hostility you were shown for your completely justified (and non-combative) comments.

There are a few points that I wanted to make that I don’t think gwynriels understand.

1. A lot of people think gwyn is a lightsinger because of the possible foreshadowing techniques that Sarah implemented in ACOSF. Bringing up lightsingers so casually and then describing gwyn’s singing and breath and the reactions other had to both of those in the way she did is curious to say the least. Although it’s not confirmed, it is an interesting theory.

2. IF gwyn is a lightsinger, it does not mean she is evil! The most popular theory I’ve seen is that she doesn’t understand her powers and is possibly being unwillingly controlled by Merrill (who I think we can all agree is a little sus). Yes, there may be some people who want gwyn to be knowingly evil, much like many more gwynriels who want elain to turn evil just for the sake of getting her out of the picture. But the majority of elriels I’ve seen and interacted with are more supportive of the possible “Merrill abusing gwyn’s powers” theory since we all know that gwyn is canonically kind.

3. Gwyn possibly being a lightsinger is in NO WAY tied to her being an SA survivor. It is the same way that Rhys being able to casually mist people and Nesta being able to literally disintegrate the Queen with her powers have nothing to do with their being SA survivors. When gwynriels say that elriels are “attacking gwyn because she is in SA survivor” just because elriels suggest gwyn might have lightsinger powers blows my mind. And they say that “real life SA survivors are hurt by these theories” - why? I don’t like to talk about my own history but I myself am an SA survivor and in no way do I think that saying gwyn might have lightsinger powers (or even saying she could be evil- not that many are saying that) has ANYTHING to do with her SA history. I equate this with all of the hate nesta and Rhys consistently have gotten over the years. The way gwynriels are using gwyn’s SA history as a reason to dispel theories they do not like is akin to an anti-Nesta saying “nesta is rude and I don’t like her” and then someone saying “you are an awful human being for not liking her because she’s an SA survivor. You obviously do not support SA victims at all. How dare you not like nesta”. A character is not solely defined by their history with SA. And their SA is not inherently tied to every other aspect about them. IF gwyn is a lightsinger (and IF she uses her powers knowingly or unknowingly) that has NOTHING to do with her being an SA survivor.

I am just so tired of gwynriels trying to twist elriels’ words to make them out to be villains. No elriel I have seen on tumblr has ever said anything negative about gwyn’s SA history. If anyone were to attack her for that specifically, yeah, they should called out for that because that is messed up. But people need to stop assuming that everything said about gwyn is somehow tied to her being an SA survivor. That is a part of who she is unfortunately but that is not ALL she is and when gwynriels are constantly using that to combat theories they do not like, they are reducing her to her SA and THAT is what is the most messed up. Gwyn is so much more than her SA and she, as well as every SA survivor in real life, deserves the respect of being treated like they are a human being and more than their SA.

Sorry for this long post but I saw your comments and they were completely in-line with my beliefs as well and I wanted to show my support for you.

Heyyy! Thank u so much. That little "debate" left me a little shaken, to be honest. It became a real trigger, really fast.

Lets talk abou the point:

1) The lightsinger theory for me is one of the best ones. I've been saying this from the begging, Gwyn needs to have a important role next book. Yes, The book is Elain's. But Elain will get the sub plot with her Love interest like Nessian did. Gwyn's role, i believe, is realted to the bigger plot. Sarah described her singing for some reason, and its show to affect Nestha in ACOSF.

2) YES! I do not want Gwyn to be evil, and don't believe she will. Her being manipulated by Merril is a great plot. Cause that woman is weird lol. I understand why gwynriels get so mad about, cause this theory eliminates the romantic aspect of Gwyn's voice on Az. But a theory is a theory, and this one makes a lot of sense with what Sjm left as hints in ACOSF. And what u say is true. The make so many Evil elain theory, not only that but they portrait elain in a very evil, manipulative manners. They think that is super ok, but make on sigle theory about precious gwyn and they go crazy.

3) This is the worst part for me. They use a very serious real life thing, for a petty reason. There is no excuse for using SA as a argument to solidify book theorys. And they use for ANYTHING. Anyone say anything about gwyn, a they come boiling with rage saying u are being toxic and not respecting her trauma. Withou realizing that they are attacking REAL LIFE SA SURVIVORS. Its ridiculous. The Lightsinger theory has nothing to do with what gwyn suffered. Nothing. Most theories doens't. I've been in this fandom for a while, and not once have i seen anyone say anything rude about her in that manner.

The problem is: Their shipp doesn't have solid theories. They have some conversations along ACOSF that show no more than a friendly interaction. And then, the famous extra chapter. The problem with the extra chapter is: what happens there cannot have more power than what happens in regular chapter. That's why i say that the necklace wont be a major issue next book. Even of we decide to take what happens there as important, what do we really have ? Az talks to gwyn and helps her with her training. Then, goes to the library and give CLOTHO (not gwyn) the necklace for her to deliver, but he also say for her to give to any other pristess, if not gwyn. Also, says he does nto consider her a friend. What i take from it is: Azriel is the link between Gwyn and next book. Like i said before, she has a role next book but nothing ties her to elain. We need a link there. And that setence about their friendship, for me, its the hint left behind.

The way i see it, we dont have romantic fellings or interaction there. Only hints to bring her back next book. And talking about elriel in his pov. For elriel, we have the extra step. It says it right there, they never dared do anything other than touching hands and stealing glances. The invisible line they created, almost crossed. But stopped by rhys. Why ?

1) Tell me one author that is dumb enough to make a shipp canon on a extra chapter ? Yes, that kiss couldn't happen there. (Thank u Rhys)

2) Who doens't love a proibited romance ? Rhys order just gave us the best hint for the sub plot of elain's book. Along with some intersting drama between the charaters. (Again, Thank u Rhys)

In the end, sjm got a lot of marketing with that extra chapter too. Azriel is a fan favorite and she knew we were all waiting on that pov. Its a lot a marketing there too.

And Thank u for showinh your support! I love it ! As u can see, i have a lot a thoughts on Elriel hahaha