#if you dont get the tire iron thing then please dont ask lol

[catboybiologist]

Extremely tire-ironable boymoder

@lilithtransrights @xenasaur @nyancrimew I'm just a normal little cis boy doing my normal luttke cis boy things nothing to see here

[mosspapi]

hai ok prefacing this by saying i know ur not a medical doctor butttt im just getting community input i guess so i have some form of motor/vocal tics and like. idk i definitely wouldnt say it's a CONSCIOUS decision for me to tic (like jerking my arm or whatever) but i feel it impending... like i know im going to tic within the next second or wutever. or there's like this looming energy that i will tic.

im wondering if im gaslighting myself into thinking that it's not conscious decision when it actually is, if that makes sense. like if i am subconsciously deciding to jerk my arm. i wonder that then i'll hold a skewer and accidentally stab myself with it without realizing until it happened lol like... input pretty please? i guess what i want you to answer is if you know of some factor that will let yourself know whether or not you're ticcing on purpose. or something like that. pretty please. this has been going on for 3 years but it stopped happening for over half a year and there's been breaks in between, does this sound like tourettes to you? it's just so confusing cuz i have no reason to tic, it's genuinely so annoying

dont answer anything ur not comfortable with of course, im just kinda at a loss and i'll ask my parents to go to a neurologist or something soon. thank you so much by the way

Hello anon! No worries, ur all good. And that's definitely a very common thing with Tourette's as far as I'm aware- like for me it won't be every tic, but I can definitely tell when it's gonna happen for a lot of them. I've even been thru a whole branch of therapy dedicated to helping notice those warning signs and being able to counteract the tic if it's smth hurtful/dangerous (like I had one that was punching myself in the head which. Isn't ideal lmao. So we spent a few weeks finding out how it felt to do the tic, where it came from, how I noticed it, etc, and developing an "inverse" action to do instead so it wouldn't happen as much, such as stretching my arm if the tic felt like tension, if that makes sense).

It's also very common that thinking about a tic will make you tic when you have Tourette's, so if that's part of what's worrying you (IE "oh I'm just faking it/doing it on purpose without realizing because I do it when someone mentions it"), that's ironically a sign that it's Not fake lmao

And Tourette's does sort of come and go, there will be "better" times and "worse" times- I don't know for how long it's considered normal to be "better", so I can't say whether 6+ months of Nothing would make it not Tourette's, but it very well still could be, or at least some other tic disorder.

I would definitely recommend trying to see a professional abt it since there are potentially other causes for tics that aren't Tourette's, but at least from my personal experience it does very well sound like that's what it could be. Hopefully it all goes smoothly for u! And hopefully this all made sense lol, I'm a little tired atm so if anything is incoherent just lmk and I'll try again /g

[thebibliosphere]

Hello Joy! Long time follower and I really enjoy your blog. I just wanted to hope into your asks bc i've had a very frustrating day of doctors appointments and even if you don't have any advice, i was just hoping to rant to someone who'd been around the block with elusive medical illnesses (though please dont feel obligated to respond to this at all), and i apologize in advance for an almost certain lack of coherence.

I've been dealing with quite a lot of doctors appointments over the years, from treating insomnia, my adhd, and depression and anxiety, but long story short we have discovered 2 years ago that I have low b12. I have also been dealing with a chronic cough for 2.5 years. Unfortunately, oral supplements did not work for the b12 and i had to get monthly injections, which stopped when the pandemic hit and, despite doing for 4 months, didnt bring my levels up to normal anyway.

I recently restarted the injections, but my doctor will not approve my request to have more frequent injections, which i think i need, because its not fatally low (its at a 170 based on recent bloodwork). I finally saw a respirologist for my cough, and she has no idea what the cause of it is, even suggested that its psychsomatic, and put me on a different inhaler that i tried before (ive tried a million treatments for it, from post nasal drip meds to ppis for acid reflux to allergy meds, and the inhaler is the only thing that helped a little).

I've gained 20-25 pounds in the past 2 months, when ive been the same weight since i was a teenager (im 22), but my bloodwork continuously come back normal for everything but b12 and vitamin d, so my doctor also has no explanation for that (including normal tsh, and the last time i brought up testing other thyroid factors the doctor told me they dont do that and honestly made me feel silly for asking. Though, granted, my current doctor is a different one). I'm going insane because of how tired i am all the time, and the fact that I feel like a hypochondriac bc all my tests are always normal, and my doctor is only available for appointment once a month.

Sorry for the long block of text, i just feel, when looking at your blog, a sense of hope that eventually i'll have answers and you're just really great. ❤ i hope you had a really good day today ❤

Get a new doctor! Get a new doctor right now!

When you dip below 250 is when you can start to experience chronic fatigue, mood disorders and worsening cognitive function.

170 is when you're on the cusp of things getting seriously bad and depending on your homocysteine levels can start to cause pain and nerve damage. This is also when my hematologist estimates I started to sustain prolonged damage to my nervous system. This was also when I started experiencing the symptoms of early onset dementia.

140 is when my iron and folate levels tanked suddenly and I was so symptomatic my (then) new doctor was worried I had cancer and rushed me through seeing seven specialists in a week. The same day as seeing the hematologist it dipped below 110 and I started hemolyzing and went into medical crisis as my kidneys and heart started to struggle. I owe that hematologist and his team my life.

The good news is the shots you are getting right now are keeping you stable, but your doctor should NOT be waiting for your levels to hit crisis mode to resolve this issue. Please do not give up on this, you deserve better treatment.

Also, what kind of supplements are you taking?

I don't absorb Cyanocobalamin well through my gut, which is the most common type of oral supplement prescribed. What I do absorb through the gut is Methylcobalamin, so if you haven't tried that yet, it might be worth a shot to try and help you manage your levels on your own. Same with folic acid, I don't absorb it for shit, but when I switch to a methylfolate supplement, my numbers start to climb*. If you have tried this and it's been ineffective, then I'm going to emphasize that you need to push your doctor to increase your number of shots to get your levels up because what you are living with is not an acceptable quality of life, and I am so sorry :(

I hope you are able to rest and have better days in store soon. Take care, and if you want to talk about b12 or stuff, hit me up.

---

*Before anyone asks, yeah, I'm aware of the MTHFR gene mutation. I just can't test for it because the procedure is considered to be "investigational" and neither my geneticist nor my insurance wants to run it and I don't want to sell my data to a gene company lol.

[candychronicles]

carve // k. bakugou

A/N: hello and welcome to my take on the all about bakugou bnharem collab! this is a potential intense read so please heed all warnings! 

this is a continuation of quarantine that i wrote last year for a harem collab. it’s not required to read in order to read this story but feel free to read if you’re interested!

i am so sorry that i solely write for collabs now lol 

CHARACTER PAIRING: bakugou katsuki x f!reader

WORD COUNT: 3,050

WARNINGS: heavy knife play (mentions of blood, wounds, weapons), super intense emotions, oral (f!receiving), good ol fashioned penetration, implications of a lighter skin tone if you squint

SYNOPSIS: your boyfriend suggested to try a new kink over quarantine yet life was beginning to resume some semblance of normalcy with no excitement in sight. what was going on? 

want to enjoy more bakugou? i mean, c’mon, who wouldn’t? 

head on over the the masterlist!

you did not, in fact, try anything risker. bakugou balked at the thought of hurting you once he got over the high he was in, lusting over the fact that you were able to put him in his place so easily, though he would never admit that. he wouldn’t admit a lot of things, in fact, like how he was afraid he was going to slip and cut too deep, how he thought you secretly didn’t trust him, how he wasn’t and never would be good enough. all these thoughts kept running through his head as time went on, as quarantine sunk deeper and deeper into chaos, as he got called back into action much sooner than expected and never really got a chance to spend time with you like he really wanted to.

over a year had passed since the last first and last time he had ever brought the knife up. you had asked him plenty, showing him different blades, trying to get him wound up, but he always pushed the thought away, fucked you into submission, or if you were being particularly relentless, let you fuck him. it kept you at bay for awhile but you both knew that things wouldn’t stay quiet forever.

it was on a normal tuesday evening that you sat him down for a serious chat. he had been gone for awhile, quarantines lifting up left and right, people getting vaccines and life returning to as normal as it could be after what everyone had went through. he was distant, stressed, unsure of life and frustrated with how he was feeling and you could tell. he didn’t, however, know that you were that observant and he was sure that you were going to kick him to the curb. honestly, how could he blame you with the way he was treating you, acting like you were some fragile doll that needed to be kept at arm's length wrapped in bubble wrap your whole life? fearing he would break some sort of trust between you two or worse, snap you in half. it wasn’t until he felt your gentle hand on his own that he realized he’d been consumed in his own thoughts.

“Katsuki, what’s wrong?” you finally asked, not one to beat around the bush.

“nothing’s wrong babe, just tired, you know i’ve been working a lot,” he brushed off, going to stand up.

you didn’t give him the chance though, yanking his hand so that he was pulled forward, slamming into the table.

“don’t. lie. to. me,” you commanded, anger evident on your face, brows furrowed and eyes challenging straight ahead.

he sat down with a sigh, not sure of where to begin or even if he had the strength to say anything to you, but before he could, he heard your voice, unusually meek, ask “was it something i did?”

his hand tightened around your own before he realized he was squeezing harshly, quickly letting go and rubbing his fingers as if he had burned you, which he might as well have with the way you recoiled at his actions.

“Katsuki, please, if there’s something i did, at least tell me. i’m going crazy watching you run away from me without me even knowing what’s going on.”

fists clenching under the table, he huffed, attempting to collect his thoughts once more. he knew now that there was no running from this, no more hiding his feelings or wallowing in his own despair and pity.

“i’m afraid of hurting you. during sex, especially. with the knife kink, ya know?”

you cocked your head at his, eyes squinting as you tried to analyze what he had just said.

“i’m not made of porcelain. i think that, as adults, you and i can have a conversation about boundaries, safety, how to keep in communication and what to properly do during aftercare. it’s really not any different from the conversations we’ve had before in any part of our life, really.”

“but what if i go too far?”

“then i’ll just embarrass you by going to the hospital and telling them that my boyfriend’s monster cock split me in half. m’sure they’ve heard worse,” you teased, reaching out to poke at his forehead that was set in a permanent wrinkle, face scowling at how nonchalantly you were talking about this.

“i’m serious, what if i fuck up and cut too deep or nick an artery or accidentally slip and stab you or you sneeze and stab yourself or-”

“hey, ‘Suki,” relax. it’s why we’ll educate ourselves and take it slow. you’re not putting a knife to my neck after all. we’ll learn and talk together so that we’re both feeling safe and if you still don’t want to do it after then that’s fine! we have a great sex life as is. i don’t need every one of my kinks fulfilled to be happy and satisfied with you.”

despite the insecurities and confusion that settled in his brain like a thick fog, he nodded his head, agreeing to learning and trying this new experience with you. secretly, he was ecstatic, his cock twitching as he thought about carving his name into your body, but the logical part of his brain still wasn’t convinced. 

you two spent the night educating yourself, figuring out what blade you wanted to purchase, how to keep it clean, how to safely take care of wounds, both minor and major, safety do’s and dont’s and going over boundaries and safe words. it was hours later that you both collapsed into bed, thoroughly tired yet satisfied after the conversation and education that had just taken place.

three days later, a nondescript package arrived at your door, simply labeled with the postage and address. you quickly grabbed it and rushed inside, careful to close the door quietly. Bakugou had the day off and spent most of the morning doing paperwork, only now choosing to workout in order to get rid of the boredom that was already seeping into his brain. 

you tore the package open as quietly as possible and shimmied the box tucked inside the package out, careful not to damage anything, popping it open and smiling at the sight inside. a shiny blade stared back at you, hilt a forest green, deep and inviting. you pulled the object out, running your finger along the cool metal, admiring the way it glinted in the harsh kitchen light. 

quickly, you scrambled into the bedroom, eager to see what Bakugou would think but when you peeked your head inside the room, it was dark. you frowned before realizing he had already sat down at his desk, tolling away at the mounds of papers he had to go through. sighing, you gently placed the blade down on the dresser, forgetting about it as the day went on.

it was only when you were in the shower later that evening, ready for bed, that you remembered you didn’t put it away. you hurried to finish, barely throwing a towel on yourself before whipping the door open only to see he had already spotted the object. 

Bakugou was twirling it in his hands, testing the weight, prodding at the tip with his fingers, letting out a sharp hiss when the blade nicked his finger.

without thinking, you stepped forward, taking his hand into your own before slowly lifting it up to your lips, sucking on the wound, the taste of iron and his own sweet flavor hitting the roof of your mouth. you watched him with hooded lids as your towel dropped haphazardly to the floor, body still dripping from the shower.

“princess, you’re playing a dangerous game tonight.”

you only hummed around his finger, stepping closer to him, pressing your wet body to his, shivering at the warmth he radiated. he pulled his hand away from your mouth, choosing instead to cup your chin and bring it closer to him.

“are you sure you want to do this? do you remember everything we learned?”

“i’m sure, Katsuki, i promise. we have our safety words if things get out of hand, yeah? but i’m sure it won’t,” you reassured, blinking up at him with such sincerity it nearly took his breath away.

with the knife tucked firmly in one hand, Bakugou led you to the bed, laying you down gently, propping your head up and settling into your thighs, kissing, biting, sucking.

he took one deep breath, hands trembling, before the coolness of the blade just barely grazed your skin. you took a sharp inhale of breath but before he could ask what was wrong, he heard you beg for him to do it again.

his tongue came out to press flat against your clit and you jolted, his one hand coming down to hold you still and the other using the knife to trace lazy shapes along your thighs, up your pelvis and around your stomach. 

you struggled to maintain your breath, the sharp scratch of the knife as it tickled your skin contrasted with the soft and soothing tongue of Bakugou as he leisurely lapped at your sensitive nub. you begged and pleaded for more friction, white knuckling the sheets as you tried to keep your composure but all he did was sadistically smile and hum, the vibrations driving you crazy. 

he kept up that pace for a while, the blade leaving behind bright pink swirls on your skin, tickling and pinching you at the same time. it was all so exhilarating, knowing that something bad could happen and yet being at the complete mercy of your boyfriend. 

Bakugou, on the other hand, was stalling for time. he wanted so badly to claim you as his own and yet he was still convinced this wasn’t what you wanted. he thought you were faking it or doing it for his own pleasure and yet in this moment, all he wanted to do was please you, make you feel good, make you know that nobody would ever lay a hand on you besides him, that you were and would be his forever. he felt so strongly about you and about you being his that he didn’t even notice he was applying more pressure to the blade until you let out a gasp.

immediately he sat up, blade dropping clumsily to the bed as he examined your hips, realizing he had nicked the thin skin on your pelvic bone. he stared blankly at the red welt, a pinprick of blood seeping out of the cut. numbly, he looked up at you, ashamed he had hurt you. before he had a chance to open his mouth and apologize, however, you surged forward, crashing your lips against his own, teeth gnashing. he was sure he tasted blood but the way you were kissing him, he didn’t think he could stop even if he wanted to.

“Katsuki, i need more, please. i need you, all of you, need your name carved into my body, need to know that i’m the only one for you.”

he paused, hands coming to gently push you away, looking into your eyes to see what kind of game you were playing but all he saw was that same sincerity and desire as always.

“i just hurt you know. what if i go too far?”

you grabbed his face fervently, squishing his cheeks with your hands. 

“I trust you with my life. I always have and I always will. I am yours as you are mine. I want, no I need, this from you. Please.”

his heart practically squeezed in his chest, an unusual lump forming in his throat as he stared at you, at the way the tears pooled at your lashes, how you looked at him like he was the sun, how your warm breath caressed his face and your soft hands held him so tenderly. it was in that moment that he finally realized how much you loved him, trusted him, needed him as much as he needed you.

no words were spoken as he wiped away the tears from your cheeks, laying you back down gently on the mattress, knife picked up firmly in his hand as he splayed his other across your stomach, stretching and pulling at the skin to make it taut. he didn’t even think before he put the blade to your skin and began carving the first line in the K.

the first cut stung, a slow, agonizing pain as he sliced straight up and down, pinpricks of blood following in the wake of his actions. he looked up at you, making sure you were okay, but you were already placing your hand on the blade, urging him to continue.

the next few lines continued to sting but with it came an utmost sense of security and pride. he was carving you, embellishing his name into your body, carving you, marking you, molding you to become a piece of his own flesh. you were his canvas, his artwork, the beauty that was brighter than the stars. he was the sun, hot, fiery, full of temper and you were his moon, patient, calm, full of emotion. together, you two worked in tandem, balancing each other out, keeping each other in line, never able to fully connect but never being able to stay away from one another. but today, on this glorious evening, the sun and the moon meet, an eclipse in the night, destined to become one, and as the blade finished slicing you, the final stroke, the “I” to end it all, your souls merged.

Bakugou stared back at his own name, his first name, carved along your skin, rivulets of red pooling along your skin, eager to be released from their confines. his hand came to gently wipe away your skin, wincing as you hissed.

“let me get you cleaned up.”

he tried to get up, he really did, but when you reached for him, your voice wanton, begging him to fuck you, pleading, saying that you needed him now more than ever, he sunk back down onto the bed, his shirt flinging over his head, clothes kicked off to the side. gingerly, he climbed on top of you, not even getting a chance to adjust or make sure you were okay before you were trapping him in your legs, pulling your bodies practically flush, his cock sitting heavily against your aching cunt.

“baby, please, i want you too, so fucking bad, but i need you to tell me you’re okay first, need you to talk to me before we go any further,” he begged, eyes searching your own frantically to make sure you didn’t get lost in the emotions.

“m’okay ‘Suki, promise. just need y’so bad, please.” 

he breathed deeply through his nose, cock twitching painfully, before he situated himself properly between your legs, gently thrusting into you, nearly gasping out as you sucked him in, soaking wet and eager for his touch.

“fuck baby, you’re so wet. been waiting for me to fuck you senseless, hm?”

you only whined out in response, hands curling around his neck to pull him closer to you, sealing him in a kiss and wriggling your hips.

he obliged without question, too consumed in the feeling of you, your scent, the stickiness of the blood, your hands in his hair, everything about you was driving him crazy. you were everything to him and he could feel in the way your body reacted to his touch, the way you cried as he kissed you, how you whispered over and over again how much you loved him, how you wanted to spend the rest of your life with him, how you needed him at your happiest and darkest moments in life, how you two would meet in every life and love each other no matter what, he felt it all. so much so that his own tears began falling, soaked in your soft skin, slipping between each kiss, sealing your fate with one another.

his thrust were slow and deliberate, taking his time, savoring every breath that he stole from you, every gasp and moan and cry and prayer as you worshipped him over and over again. your body was on fire, adrenaline making your toes curl and fingers tingle, head dizzy from lack of air but you couldn’t stop, meeting his thrust with your own, legs locked tightly around his torso, hands pulling him impossibly closer, loving the way his body set you on fire. you were drowning in the flames and yet only wanted to sink deeper into heat, consumed by the tranquility it gave you. you were at peace, body alight with pleasure as your chest met his, back curling off the bed as he rocked you through the most intense orgasm you had ever had.

it only took a few moments of your cunt clenching around his cock before he came, thrusts becoming sloppy as he rode you both through your high. breaths were caught, bodies untangling from one another as you came to your senses. after a few minutes, Bakugou gently began stroking your cheek, bringing you back to reality, going through his checklist as he made sure you were okay after what had happened.

after he had gotten you some water and began tending to your wounds, you looked at him, hand coming to gently grip his, stroking the calloused palms of your lover. 

“thank you, Katsuki.”

he looked at you like you had two heads before scoffing, claiming that he only did what you two wanted to do before finishing cleaning you up, going to the bathroom to take his own shower and wash the blood off of himself. you laid there, donned in one of his shirts, taking in your emotions, when the door opened up, Bakugou stepping out dressed in sweatpants, flashing you a rare soft smile as he took in the name carved on your stomach.

“y’know, that’s just the beginning,” he started, coming over to lay down next to you, gently pulling you into his side, kissing the top of your head and watching the way you looked at him, expectant and full of love.

“you’re not going to just have my name carved on you, princess. soon, i’ll give you my last name too.” 

[notnctu]

through the lens ❀ l.jn

❀ lee jeno x fem!reader ❀ genre - slow burn, smut/mature content, fluff (romance?), slight angst ❀ details - photographer!jeno, model!reader, college!au, shy!jeno but he aint shy in bed, strangers to fuckers!au ❀ word count - 8k (this is the longest thing ive ever written) ❀ warnings - nude modeling, swearing, oral (f/receiving), some sweet love makin’ ❀ brief synopsis - jeno asks you to model for his internship project, but little did you know, it was going to be a nude photo shoot.  

❝ jeno was too shy to hold eye contact, but he stared at you endlessly through the lens. ❞

❀ a/n - hihihi this is author doie❀ ! im bad at writing smut so pls dont hate me ah ha lol i tried my best i also dont model/do professional photography so really apologize if i butcher any terms lmaoo the only thing i am is that im in college and im shy

Jeno had applied to almost a hundred internships and almost close to none returned with an offer, even after a whole month of waiting. He absolutely needed to start building his portfolio before the beginning of his senior year of college. The embarrassment of possibly graduating without any experience loomed over the desperate boy. 

Photography had been more than a hobby to him, to the point where he wanted to take it seriously. His parents weren’t the most supportive of an Arts major, but that couldn’t stop him. Jeno saw the best through a camera lens. He had a special eye for beautiful moments and the impressing urge to capture it forever. 

It was too late to change his major, if he wanted to graduate with all of his friends. If he wanted to be successful, he had to act on it now. 

The swoosh! of a new email startled the sleeping boy. He stared at the brightly lit screen, reading the words over and over again to make sure it was real. Jeno was so enthralled with excitement that he scrambled out of bed to wake up his roommate, Jaemin.

He shook him so violently that the sheets fell from Jaemin’s warm body. “Dude! I got an internship!” He spoke with incredible glee, a wide smile couldn’t leave his face.

Jaemin groaned and had to hold Jeno by the shoulders to halt the boy from causing the room to spin. “Why--What is going on?” He dazely rubbed his tired eyes to blink at his giddy roommate.

The screen blinded Jaemin as it was shoved too closely to adjust. “Whoa--,” he pushed it away and shut his eyes, “--repeat what you just said one more time.” Jaemin held a finger up and Jeno grabbed it, jumping onto his best friend’s bed.

“I got an internship. Someone got back to me.” Jaemin returned the same excitement the moment he processed his words. He shot up in bed and hugged his friend tightly. 

“Wo-w, dude! Congratulations!” The two boys hurried on their feet to cheer together. There was no concern for the rest of their housemates, only celebration that roared throughout the entire night.

+

Truthfully, Jeno had no recollection of applying to this studio. It could have been a random link on a job scouting website, but he couldn’t be more grateful. An internship was long overdue and Jeno had been itching to get some recognition for his craft. 

“Hello, I’m Lee Jeno.” He bowed slightly at the receptionist, who had a stern stare that made him feel vulnerable. The first thing he noted about the office: white and minimalistic. 

Jeno’s specialty was landscape photography. His aesthetics consisted of black and white filters, city lights, dark mood lighting, and background commotion. He enjoyed capturing chaos the most, a scene where more than one thing was happening. The only reason being that there was more to look at. 

“Nice to meet you. The name is Lee Taemin, but you can call me what you please.” A young, lean man strolled his way towards Jeno with a wide grin and his hand for him to shake. Taemin was slightly shorter than him, but his stylish, expensive boots made up for his height. He had to be only a maximum of five years older than Jeno as Taemin appeared relatively youthful. 

Taemin’s firm grip pulled Jeno along inside the studio. A small gasp escaped from Jeno which earned robust laughter from the older man. “I hope you can break out of your shell soon. There is no room for timidness around here, Mister Lee.”

“Please, you can call me Jeno.” He smiled, quite awkwardly at the beautiful man. 

The tall glass windows, the concrete, gray floor, the white doors that lined the hallway, had to be all too predictable. Jeno envisioned this is what high class must look like. It was the pristine, bright feeling and the smell of vanilla that lingered distastefully. There was chatter behind the closed doors --- mainly directing, and high praises. 

The only off-put was that photographers worked behind closed doors. From the few studios he has visited previously, photographers often worked in open spaces due to lighting fractures or the ability to roam more freely. 

“I’m actually very ecstatic you signed up for the internship, since you do seem a bit on the younger side.” Taemin gestured toward the sofa in the middle of his massive office. Jeno sat across from him. Water was already placed on the glass coffee table that separated the two. A laptop was opened to face Taemin.

Jeno slyly rubbed the condensation from his palms on his jeans. Taemin’s stare bore deep into the shy boy, who had to break eye contact from time to time. “I know.” Jeno chuckled nervously, “thank you for getting back to me. I was really hoping to gain work experience through mentorship.” 

Taemin nodded at everything Jeno was saying. His face being completely expressionless. Jeno sipped his water to regain moisture in his dry throat. Taemin was more intimidating than he was anticipating. “Sounds great. Happy to have you here. It might be a small business, but the experience is worth investing in. Every photographer who has come in and out of my building has found their forte. Let’s say, it’s eye opening.” 

“That’s exactly what I was looking for actually.” As scared as he was of this mysterious man, he really enjoyed the comfort the environment radiated. 

Taemin leaned forward and squinted at the screen. “I noticed in the portfolio you sent that you don’t have any portraits or any people, in general, in your photos. Do you have any works with people? Since this is a studio of fine art nude photography.”

Nude. Jeno practically choked on the last remaining spit he gathered. Taemin acknowledged the boy’s shocked reaction and tilted his head curiously, “you did know that I specialize in contemporary fine art nude photography, right?” Unfortunately, Jeno did not. 

Jeno cleared his throat, “yes, of course. I wanted to challenge myself.” He had to lie, there was no other way to cover up his disbelief. This internship was the only hope left for him to gain something. Though, even the thought of shooting a naked body made him anxious.

He hated how timid he was. His friends and family say otherwise, mainly for the reason that Jeno automatically lit up behind a camera. In all honesty, he hid behind it. It was the only safe place that Jeno knew what he was doing. However when it came to real life situations without it, he lacked the confidence to be himself.

As ironic as it was, he hated being seen. He liked to be the background character in his own life, because the main character took too much of a toll. It could also be his deafening insecurities and lack of self esteem, but Jeno didn’t mind not being the center of attention.

“You like a challenge?” It was more of a statement rather than a question. Jeno caught a glimpse of the twinkle in Taemin’s dark eyes. “Then for your first task, I want you to show me that you can take on this role.”

Jeno scrambled for his phone to jot down notes. “Send me an emotional portfolio, model of your choice. They could be a friend of yours that you feel comfortable seeing naked. It must include a variation of headshots, full body, and body details. It must also be raw and unedited photos. I want to see if you have the eye for the art to capture these types of images.”

“When would you like it by?” He stammered, completely winded at the sudden project that unloaded on top of him. 

“Next Friday, and you’ll present it to me here in person. Feel free to use this studio if you don’t have a place of your own with equipment. All you need to do is book a room with the front desk. Any other questions?” The sound of the laptop shutting caused Jeno to look up at the brilliance in front of him. He needed Taemin to help him succeed. 

“Why do you take nude photography?” 

Taemin was unable to stop the laughter that erupted into the room. “I don’t run a pimp business or sell soft core porn, if that’s why you’re staring at me so funnily. What I make is an art masterpiece, it has nothing to do with physical features or desires. It’s the pure emotion that clothing distracts from. Clothing conforms the model into an aesthetic, and while that works for editorials, it won’t be a consistent thing here.” 

Jeno nodded understandingly. Overwhelmed and lost at words. He was unsure what he had gotten himself into. Where was he going to find a model on such short notice on such lewd conditions? He was really going to need to step out of his comfortable zone, in his photography and social skills. 

Taemin stood up and extended his hand once more. “I take pride in my art, so I hope you, too, start finding that in your own.” 

+

Jaemin held his stomach from the endless laughter, tears welling up in his eyes. “Nud-Nude photography? And you didn’t know?”

“Jaemin, keep it down.” Jeno whispered and cautiously peered around at the few people flooding into the small lecture hall. “I don’t want everyone in our club to misunderstand and think I’m some creep.”

His best friend straightened up in his seat and placed his hand on Jeno's slumped shoulder, “first of all, you’re a complete idiot for not researching. Secondly, it’s an art form. If you really got yourself a shady, rated R internship, I would’ve told you to drop it instantly.” 

His spirits were slightly lifted, but he was still struggling with who he should ask to model for him. As much as he’s already seen of Jaemin, being his roommate, he honestly would rather leave the rest to imagination. Jeno wasn’t purposefully searching the room for a candidate, but he could not stop his eyes from drifting.

He spotted the most attractive side profile that sat two rows below him. He shook his head to make sure he was seeing her correctly. Peering around, he looked for another possible face to shoot. But oh god, how she caught his eye every time she even slightly moved.

You smiled happily with your friends by your side as your club’s executive board members introduced this year’s goals and events to attend. It had to be the smallest amount of alcohol still running in your system that caused you to giggle every time guys tried to turn around and hit on you.

“Why don’t you focus on our club members instead?” You smirked at the smug older boy, who had poorly attempted to grab your attention. “I think this information is important to you. These events could help you develop your social skills to be much better.” Your voice was barely above a whisper, but your girl friends scoffed by your side.

He got up in disbelief and quickly walked out of the room. There was a brief pause at the sudden movement, but the announcement carried on per usual.

Jeno impatiently waited for the club meeting to finally be over, so he could talk to you. The longer it dragged, the more his confidence was subsiding. “I’m heading to study, wanna come with?” Jaemin poked at Jeno’s knee.

“Yeah, but you can go ahead first. I need to talk to someone.” His voice was shaky and his throat went so dry. Jeno’s shifty eyes scanned the room, hoping no one saw how nervous he was acting.

Jaemin’s eyebrows lifted suspiciously, “who? I didn’t even know you talked to anyone who came today. Donghyuck and Renjun aren’t here---”

“--her, Jaemin... her. I’m going to ask her to model for me.” Jeno motioned his head. His heart beating faster at seeing a small grin appear on your face from a comment someone made.

Jaemin hummed, “good luck with that, bud. I’ve got two shoulders for you to cry on after.” The extra hint of sarcasm only made Jeno sweat nervously. He was seriously doubting his decision, but it wouldn’t be a challenge if he didn’t do it. He knew he’d regret it more if he didn’t just ask you. 

Once the meeting was dismissed, you wanted to get out of the room before the heavy rush into the hallways. Unfortunately, a few frat guys pulled you into their conversation and chatted up a storm. Your friends played into their foolery, but you stopped paying attention when they asked for your numbers.

There was a faint tap on your shoulder and you turned to see who the culprit was. You didn’t seem to know him, because you would’ve remembered such a demeanor. His eyes were glued to the floor behind you and his shaky hands ran through his brown locks. His shyness was quite endearing, yet alarming since you weren’t sure why exactly he had approached you.

“Yes?” You asked curiously.

The moment Jeno heard your delicate cadence, he melted like a popsicle left out in the sun. He peered up, but quickly reverted his eyes to the white tiles when he noticed how beautifully you stared at him.

He counted his breathing to calm his rapid heart beat. He cleared his throat to introduce himself, “I’m Jeno. I’m a third year Arts major, um-- I was just--- I know we don’t know each other. I wanted to ask, uh-” Jeno was horrified at how he stammered over his own words. His cheeks burned with a red glow, and if he couldn’t look you in the eye before, he definitely couldn’t now.

“Hey, see you later.” One of the bulky frat guys called and you waved back weakly. 

A guy who had been chasing you endlessly scoffed at the pitiful sight and smirked at you, “see you at my house tonight? Been missing you in my bed lately.”

“Thought you would’ve guessed the reason why I stopped coming around.” Jeno heard the sting in your remarks and the disbelief in the male. 

You honestly could have left, Jeno knew that. But you stayed and waited patiently for him to finish. Jeno could tell how strong you were just by your intimidating aura that practically suffocated him by standing in close proximity to you.

You sighed and reached to grab your jacket on the folded seat, “look, Jeno. It’s nice to meet you and all, but I gotta get going.” 

Shockingly, the shy boy reached out to stop you by your fingertips. His touch lingered before he dropped your hand quickly. “I’m sorry. Are you free this Monday?”

“Uh, that depends. If you’re asking me on a date, then I’m busy.” Rolling your eyes, you weren’t sure why you still stayed to listen to what this random stranger had to say. If it were anyone else, you would’ve walked away the moment he asked if you were free. However, you acknowledged his timidness and the courage he must have mustered up to approach you.

Jeno shook his head violently, completely in shambles from that type of misunderstanding. “Not a date. I need someone to model for my portfolio photos that my internship assigned. It’s actually very important to me because it’s the first internship that responded back to me when I had applied to so many a whole month ago. Basically, I really need this and you because I think you’d be perfect to take pictures of. Oh-- wow! That sounded very bad --- uh --- what I meant is that your facial proportions are perfect and---”

“I’m free Monday.” You cut off his endless ramble and gestured toward his phone. He handed it to you without any hesitation and you typed in your number. “Text me the time, place and what I should wear.” 

“Oh actually, it’s a nude photoshoot.” Your eyes doubled in size, completely offended by that statement.

Jeno felt the sudden shift in the air and brought his hands up to block himself, “to be more clear, it’s a contemporary fine art nude photography studio. The pictures are pieces of art and to be seen as that only. I have no intentions or ulterior motive to sleep with you, see you naked or sell, leak your nudes for the profit of your body. But, I understand if you no longer want to do it because it sounds super strange now that I am explaining it.” 

Your shoulders relaxed and the fist that formed unraveled. You exhaled deeply, “I’ll do it. We can talk more about it on Monday and I get to leave on my own accord if I don’t feel comfortable. We work on my conditions.” Picking up Jeno’s chin, he was absolutely petrified at the forced eye contact and your incredible, powerful gaze. He was mesmerized by the fire in your eyes, and if he stared any longer, he could’ve lost himself in them. 

“Of course.” With that, you dropped his face and left without another look back. Jeno looked down at his phone and the new contact name, (Y/N). It had slipped his mind to even ask what your name was and he slapped his face in utter stupidity. “Do better, Lee Jeno.” It was a remainder to himself to, hopefully, be better the next time you two speak.

+

Monday, 3:03 PM. 

Jeno paced back and forth in the brightly, lit white room. He was trying to find any blinds or curtains to cover the tall windows of the high rise building. It should not be too much of a problem, the extra lighting was a positive. Jeno was only worried for your comfort of the openness. 

There was a soft knock before Jeno practically tripped to open the door. His breath hitched at the sight of your bare face. This time, you were the vulnerable one. Jeno only saw purity, yet impressed at how your tired eyes still managed to bid him a soft smile. He admired your uneven complexion, and the sparse moles that dotted your skin. 

“Okay, so you want to see me naked now or later?” Filled with jokes, your voice was light and airy this afternoon. There was a bit of a contrast from the first time you two met. Softer, enchanting, almost ghostly. 

Everything in the room was white. The mattress on the floor had a white comforter and white sheets. The backdrop. The walls. The hardwood floor. The only color was the blue sky that the tall windows let in.

“Here’s a robe. You can change in the bathroom.” Jeno scratched the back of his neck and his eyes wandered everywhere, but your’s. 

“Would you be okay with me just taking off my clothes in here?” You saw the light tint of pink cover his face, and spread to his ears. You examined more of the shy boy’s embarrassed face, finally getting a really good look at him. Jeno was very attractive, and you could only imagine how beautiful he must look if he fully faced you.

Jeno fiddled with his camera strap, “only if you are okay with that.” Clearing his throat, he stood next to the window to give you some privacy. “I’ll go over what I plan on doing. I’m going to take photos of your face details, parts of your body, full body, and portraits. You can lay down on the bed and I’ll direct you in poses. Have you modeled before?”

He was scanning the bustling city below his feet. Cars zoomed quickly and crowds of tiny people flooded the streets. He brought his camera up to his face, not being able to resist the urge to capture such a thrilling sight. 

“If Instagram counts, then yeah. Professional model gig would be a no. Nude photography is a definite no, unless we are talking about being filmed during sex.” Jeno chuckled, while also holding the camera steady and stealing a few moments to keep for himself.

For a strange reason, being naked for a non-sensual reason felt even more vulnerable. Laying on the soft fabric, you felt oddly exposed and slightly more reserved. You’ve had countless strangers see you naked. Men were sexually desiring to see a sexy picture. You were always lusted after, but this feeling of nakedness was special.

“Are you ready?” Jeno gulped, finally setting the camera down. 

You hummed cheerfully. Your heart was leaping out of your chest as the boy shifted slowly to face you. As he turned, you noticed he had his eyes sealed shut, which caused a small laugh to erupt. “Jeno, you have my permission to open your eyes and to look at me.”

Holy shit, he was trembling with an inexplicable fear. The camera was slipping from his sweaty hands. His mouth was as dry as the desert. Jeno’s pounding heart was loud in his ears. 

Jeno has seen his past girlfriends laying naked in bed, but this situation was too different. When he saw you laying there in absolutely nothing, he was overwhelmed, yet astounded at how graceful you appeared.

There was no exchange of words and no exchange of eye contact. He towered over your lying figure and shakily brought the camera to his eyes. He selfishly wanted to capture your elegance. Through the lens, he saw all of you: the curve in your eyelid, your curled eyelashes, the small mole next to your soft lips, the sharp color of your eyes, the way your hair frames your face.

This was the most beautiful sight he’s ever seen. You were comparable to the arts found in popular museums. Your body lines were enticing and an impressive shape. Your breasts pooled on your chest, the round nude nipple in the centers. Your details had to be sculpted by gods, who took their sweet time making you. You were a true masterpiece. 

Confused, Jeno felt a huge mixture of emotions. Was he aroused? Was he infatuated? Did he just fall in love with a complete stranger? He recognized the same thrilled feelings he felt taking landscape photos. With each click, he grew more excited with how beautiful the photos were turning out.

“Sit up and rest your chin on your left hand. Lean your weight on your right leg.” Jeno’s direction was clear and firm. There was no evidence of a smaller tone he usually spoke in. Sitting up, you placed your elbow on your upper thigh to steady your chin. Jeno had already gotten down to floor level to you. 

Without the camera that separated you two, it had to be the first time he faced you completely in such close proximity. There was so much to admire about Jeno. He remained concentrated on his craft, but it was actually very sexy to see his dedication. It was almost like he was a whole new person, like all the shyness drifted away. 

Jeno couldn’t take his eyes off of you. It wasn’t simply your beauty that amazed him. Your confidence made everything easy. There was something about your blank stares, when he asked for an emotion, you portrayed it perfectly.

“Can we talk while you shoot?” Your sudden voice startled the photographer. He lowered his camera and his gaze automatically wandered off behind you, which didn’t go unnoticed. He nodded after a short pause and the shutter noises continued.

“Why did you choose me as your model?” 

Jeno peeled away from the device, “because you’re you.” He didn’t even know what that statement meant. It wasn’t like he knew you before the first time he asked you to model for him.

The corners of your lips dipped down, drawing an evident frown. Click. Jeno loved that image especially. It was a simple way to get real, authentic facial expressions. He marveled at the photo, but registered the reason behind it. “I wanted to ask you the second I saw you. I just knew that I wanted you.” 

“But you don’t know me.” 

Jeno looked through the lens once again, welcoming a full view of your stunning attributes. He spoke in a low voice, “then, let me know you.” Click. 

It would be the biggest lie to say that you weren’t aroused by Jeno at the moment. He was cool, without trying to be. He really did shine when he had a camera to work with, like a star to a dark night. While he had a distinct demeanor off the bat, you enjoyed unraveling the rest of him. He was, also, the first man you met that didn’t seem sexually driven by a naked woman in his presence. 

You had to resist every urge to push the camera away and share the few seconds of his entire gaze before it wandered away. You wanted to rock his world, he was so innocent and beautiful. You wished to wreak havoc on him, have him show you how much he wanted you. 

+

You anticipated an awkward photoshoot, but Jeno made you feel safe and comfortable. He made sure to adjust the temperature when goosebumps rose on your arms and when your nipples became painfully hard. He never touched you or came too much into your personal space. He always asked for your permission. 

Nude modeling was a new experience for you, but you were surprised at how much you liked it. or how much you liked Jeno taking your photos. He sat next to you on the bed when you put on your articles of clothing and panned through several shots to satisfy your curiosity.

Leaning close, your head ducked to see the photos. A gasp escaped your lips when you saw just the first few. “Is that really me?” The pictures made you feel an abundance of emotions, you felt what they reflected. Sadness, melancholy, happiness, confidence. You didn’t know images had that much power to make you feel that, especially photos of you.

Jeno nodded, smiling so wide that his eyes turned to moon crescents. He was so in love with the results. He found respect for Taemin’s craft and he was right, he might’ve found a new forte to experiment with. “I can send you the photos digitally too, if you want them.”

“Maybe I’ll print them out, frame them, and gift it to every horrid man who has tried to flirt their way to my body since they want to see it so fucking bad.” 

Jeno peered over and saw the tiny glimpse of pain in your orbs, “why would you give horrible people what they want?”

“So they can finally shut up and leave me alone. Plus, this is art and if I tell them it’s actually me, maybe it’ll change their minds to start treating me like it.” 

He held his palm up and almost immediately, your fingers filled the spaces between his. “I’m going to need you to start treating yourself as fine art.”

“Keep taking more photos of me and I just might start thinking I’m Mona Lisa.” Your laughters blended nicely into each other. There was mutual mental acknowledgement of the happiness you were both feeling.

Jeno never let go of your hand, and there was a short moment of comforting silence where you two sat in each other’s existence. You were the one to break it, “are you doing anything after this?” 

He shook his head. “Well then, you’re mine for the rest of the night. We’re going to pretend we’ve been close friends since first year and eat take-out on my bed because that’s what I need at the moment.” 

+

“I know you respect my body and see this as an art form, but I’m genuinely surprised that you didn’t feel aroused at the slightest.”

Jeno didn’t even realize how much time had already passed being you. You two ate and chatted as if you’ve known each other forever, as if the friendship wasn’t established several hours ago. It felt safe and right, like you two belonged in each other’s existence and nowhere else mattered.

He felt warm inside from your hearty laughter and courage, like he was watching a painting come to life or a photo in movement. You were smitten over how endearing and complex he was. He was more than what meets the eye and that alone drew you towards him.

“Okay, I’ll admit,” Jeno paused to watch your reaction, “in the most respectable way, I was somewhat turned on. But! Before you trail blaze me for being just like every disgusting male in your life, I genuinely didn’t have any sexual thoughts during the photoshoot. That was all professional and it will continue to be like that.” 

Getting up from your bed, your mind was working at lightspeed to process his confession. Jeno was fast to pick up someone’s personality, what stood out and what was kept hidden. He knew quicker than anyone else that you were not someone to offend because you were a strong, straight forward woman.

His personality breakdown went like this: you knew what you like, you knew you were going to get what you want, you enjoyed flirty banter (with people of your choice), you weren’t afraid to be blunt, or kick someone’s ass. You carried yourself with confidence that graced your every step, which makes anyone attracted to you instantly. Bold, confident, sexy had to be what came to mind whenever he thought about you. 

Nonetheless, he really liked you as a person. He could pat himself on the back all day long for just approaching you, but he knew the real reason as to how this all happened. It was you saying yes to a stranger’s odd photoshoot. You made him the luckiest man in the world. 

“Continue? Are you looking for excuses to keep seeing me?” You smirked and Jeno’s voice grew small. 

“I--- uh, well,” there goes the nervous stammering, “I know the conditions were a one time thing, so I understand if you don’t want to do it again.” As the night had progressed, Jeno gradually began to hold eye contact and actually looked at you directly without the help of seeing you through a lens. This was the first time he broke it. 

“Hey now, I’m messing with you, Jeno.” He had been sitting on your floor, at the end of your bed. You crawled on your elbows to reach him, and to hold his chin to face you again. Deja vu. “I’d love to get naked for you again, and again, and.. as many times as you want me to.” 

He stared at you with his mouth hung open in disbelief. His eyes scanned your beautiful face to see your lips pull back into a mischievous smile. Gulping, he swallowed every ounce of courage he had left. “You don’t have to say it like that.” He tried to remove your grip, but it latched onto his hand. 

“You’re finally looking me in the eye, sweet thing. I don’t think you realize how much I had been wanting that from you.” You caressed his cheek, rubbing small circles on his texture. 

“What else do you want from me?” His implication sounded suggestive, even if his curiosity was innocent. 

Your hot breath brushed against Jeno’s lips. “I can show you.”

Jeno, the one and only college guy who has seen your naked body in a non-sexual context. Jeno, the shy, sweet boy who appreciated and recognized you as a form of art. Jeno, the talented and skillful photographer, who consistently made sure you felt comfortable. Jeno, the only person in the world who you’d model nude for. Jeno, the dazzling character behind the camera who you wanted more than anyone else you’ve ever met. Lee Jeno.

He seemed like he was inching closer, already tilting his head to fit your’s. You smiled to yourself, seeing that your words were received well. Diving in, your lips swam together fervently. 

The poor boy found himself lost in your enchanting, alluring gaze. He let the trance consume him, selfishly kissing the art he admired so dearly. A small part of him felt the guilt and confusion that began to rise. He wasn’t sure why he suddenly wished to feel your lips on his neck, or run his hands across your hot skin. He swore these thoughts were not present earlier. 

A small pop! and Jeno held your shoulder to pull away. “I’m sorry, did I do something?” You asked, honestly concerned that you were taking more than you deserved. The least you desired was to hurt Jeno, who had been nothing but nice and sweet.

“(Y/N),” you could listen to your name roll off his tongue all day, “I feel somewhat guilty. I don’t want things to be misunderstood.”

“Which would be?”

“I don’t want you to think I coerced you into being my model just because I had intentions to sleep with you.” Jeno was already gathering his things, but you hopped off your bed and placed a hand on his chest. “Because that’s what it’s starting to look like at the moment.”

“Was that something you did though? Did you have those intentions?” Your stare bore right through him. The warmth of your hand relaxed his racing heart.

“Never, (Y/N), I would never do that to someone.” Your hand traveled down to grab his belongings and tossed it back onto the ground. 

He silently watched as you took off your pants, and stood in front of him in your underwear. “Then, we’re fine. I know your intentions have always been pure. But truthfully, Jeno, seeing you focused while you worked sparked something in me. You don’t understand how aroused I got and how badly I wanted you to fuck me on that bed.” His hand trailed up your exposed thighs, finally touching your softness. “You’re the one guy I wanted first, and it’s been a long time since I’ve felt that.” 

“I-- I don’t know what to say.” His cheeks revealed how embarrassed he was, but his dark, lustful eyes were telling a different story.

A smirk fell upon your face, “then don’t say anything.” 

Jeno devoured you, inhaling the light hint of vanilla that still lingered. He hoisted you onto your mattress and kissed you like his life depended on it. His antsy hands roamed your free range, exploring, holding, gripping the parts he marveled over. Small moans from the back of your throat encouraged him to continue.

No one has ever kissed you with the amount of passion Jeno did. It was gentle, with enough vigor to cause your panties to dampen. It wasn’t sloppy, where previous guys had a problem of missing your mouth entirely and slobbered your chin. 

His lips worshiped you, highlighting your good sides. Flashes of the photoshoot popped into Jeno’s head as he left purple marks on the places he loved capturing the most. He pushed up your shirt, exposing your chest to him again. His tongue circled around your hard nipple as he made sure to give the same amount of attention to each one. 

Jeno knew he was too shy to hold your intense stare, but getting to know you during and after the photoshoot, he could see the softness in your gaze. He was, now, able to see all of you. The sight of you through the camera was addicting enough, so finally taking you all in was more than satisfying. 

Your hands ran through his hair as he kissed down your torso. His thumbs hooked the waistband of your underwear, and peeled it off your body. You gasped as the cold air from your apartment grazed against your exposed figure.

Jeno paused to admire your glistening pussy, “would it be okay if you let me make love to you?”

Your heart burned, not out of embarrassment, but at how he still managed to ask you for your permission in the sweetest way. You rested your weight on your elbows, “no one has done that before, would it actually make me want to fall in love with you?”

“It wouldn’t be too bad. I have a lot of love to give and you look like a person who deserves all of it anyways.” Jeno’s finger ran over your wet slit and rubbed your clit slowly.

Your moans filled the room as the electric jolted throughout your veins. The wetness grew, seeping out of you like a waterfall. Jeno dropped down to his knees, and lifted your legs on his broad shoulders.

“Are you usually this wet, baby?”

Chuckling, you smiled at his bold choice in using pet names, “Just for you.”

He hummed, chiming at how he liked your answer. Spreading you open, his tongue met with your swollen bud that begged for his licks.

His tongue darted side to side, up and down and in result, your back arched in pleasure and a darkness clouded your mind. His name and mindless profanities streamlined their way out of you as Jeno ate you out in such a precisely delicious way.

Grabbing a fist full of hair, you pulled him closer, even if there was no more space to fill. Looking down, you two exchanged glances before he thrusted a finger into you. Your hips bucked harder as he eased in another one.

Jeno curled his fingers in search of your sweet spot and found it when a deep moan escaped your throat. His fingertips rubbed and pressed into your plush flesh, causing you to practically scream and squirm in his mouth. 

He suckled your clit and fingered you simultaneously and quickly. The pleasure was overflowing and you released his hair to grip your sheets below you. Your legs shook and trembled as he had no caution to stop.

“Please, I’m going to--” you could barely talk due to your face contouring to the splurge of pleasure every single time Jeno rubbed your spot. “--to explode.” 

He had to take back what he thought earlier in the day. This was the most beautiful sight he’s ever laid eyes on. The whole scene played like from one of his favorite films. It felt like he was giving his photos life. Your body twisted and turned, accentuating the curves of your lines. 

Jeno had become painfully hard against the fabric of his jeans, but seeing you fall apart because of his minimal movements exhilarated him. “P-Please, don’t stop.” A breathy moan followed suit and your thighs tried to press themselves together. Jeno didn’t allow it, his free hand hooked underneath your left thigh to pull one side away from his cheeks.

Your high gradually grew so tall that it all eventually came cascading down. Your legs shook violently and sat up from the euphoria that took over you. Jeno prolonged your buzz and you screamed loudly, having to bite down on your fingers to stop yourself from angering your neighbors.

Jeno drank you up, letting your wetness cover his chin and drip down his knuckles. He pulled away, at last, and you took deep breaths to control your heavy breathing. It was like Jeno knocked the wind completely out of you. 

He stood up and you saw the outline of his hard bulge straining itself through his jeans. The next scene was quite animalistic. You, still embodying your high, sat on your knees and unzipped his pants with your needy hands.

“Now, it’s your turn to get nude for me.” You whispered, tauntingly. Jeno groaned when you reached down and gently pulled him out. He stepped out of his clothing, all of it. His shirt was lost in the corner and his bottoms were scattered over your floor. Mirroring his actions, you took off your last piece of cloth.

Jeno was built. Though his biceps did not go unnoticed during the photoshoot, you were surprised at the lines of muscle that sketched his body. It made your mouth water, seeing his extremely hard dick stand against his toned abs. His red tip fell just below his navel. Jeno only kept getting better as the night continued on.

Pulling him closer, his hand found their way to the back of your head as you aligned your mouth to the wetness that spilled from his tip. “I want to make you feel good.” Jeno’s hoarse voice made your knees weak.

Peering up, you batted your eyelashes at him fondly. “Just a little taste?” You begged, having to hold his shaft with both of your hands because of his thickness. Your tongue was already stuck out, your hot breath causing the tiniest bit of sensation for him.

He nodded and his eyes were trained on you. He didn’t want to miss any second of your kitty licks. You flattened your tongue against his warmth, dragging it up to the top. The saltiness hit your palette as you swirled around his redness. “Oh--” Jeno threw his head back and bit his lip, “--lay on the bed now.” 

You smiled sweetly and gave his member a quick kiss before reaching for a condom in your drawer. Jeno climbed onto your bed and situated the rubber comfortably. You laid on your back and he was fast to pull your legs around his waist. 

He lined himself at your entrance and eased his tip in slowly. Squirming, you craved him to fill you up to the brim. He leaned down to kiss you, letting your tongue lap with his. It’s your hands with the mind of their own when they flew automatically to hold his face whenever you wanted to deepen the kiss. Then, Jeno stretched himself all the way in and he caught your gasp with his lips. He groaned, feeling the mess he created merely minutes ago. 

His hips moved so easily with your wetness, but he went slow. Dragging out each pull and then, pushing himself back in roughly. “Jeno!” Your body jolted up the bed each time. His body fell over yours to hold you intimately, letting you bury your face into his neck. Your lips latched themselves onto his sensitive skin, painting a purple sunset. 

Jeno’s arms snaked underneath your thighs as he pressed them to your chest, folding you almost into a ball. Your mouth hung open as he fucked you harder, rougher, deeper yet keeping the tempo rhythmically slow. At this point, you could feel his hits in your gut. Your weak hands gripped loosely around his strong wrists that held your legs down. “You’re pussy is so tight and holy shit---, you keep getting more beautiful.”

A familiar burning sensation set in your chest as you saw how concentrated his face had become. You were so fucked out that you could barely speak, “you—” his hips mercilessly slammed into you powerfully, enacting a low moan every time he reached your sweet spot. “—keep surprising me.” His actions came to a halt and he stared deeply into your soul. 

You whined, wiggling your hips for any friction. He held them down into the mattress, knowing his grip was strong enough to leave a mark. “I told you, I was going to make love to you tonight.”

“I’ve already fallen for you.” You said breathlessly, tracing the side of his face and pecking his lips softly. 

“You don’t understand what you’re doing to me by saying those things.” He whispered and pushed his entire shaft to fill you to your brim. 

You yelped his name and gripped his shoulders, but he wasn’t done yet. “Show me how badly you wanted me the first time you saw me.” Jeno blinked at you in slight shock. 

As he continued to hold the deep gaze, he kept pushing his dick further and further into you. He was balls deep, almost impossible to keep going. He fucked you without the need to pull out, just burying his cock deeper into your wet pussy. You exclaimed, moaned, cussed at every push. Holding the stare was more than enough to lose yourself all over him again. 

Jeno was drunk with the image of your fucked out expression and every time the mixture of pleasure and pressure caused your eyebrows to crease and mouth to open release sensual sound. He had been trying his best not to come undone, to fixate another climax for you.

The feeling of you wrapping tighter and tighter around him drove him insane. “Give it to me, please.” Your muffled plead called for his release, but he could feel that you were close to your second.

Jeno sat up on his knees and pulled you into his arms where your thighs fell over his. You groaned at the empty feeling, though it was quickly replaced with a gratifying moan when he inserted himself again. Your arms dangled around his neck, foreheads touching intimately. 

The fucking eye contact again, how could you get enough of it? You giggled, amused at how different Jeno was when he eventually opened up. He wrapped his strong arms around your back and thrusted his hips up into you. The way this man made you squirm, scream, and shake were nothing you’ve experienced before. 

He smirked, placing a gentle kiss on your cheek when he went rampage on your pussy. “Not laughing now, are you?”

You whined in pleasure, brushing your fallen strands of hair out of his face. “Shut up before I make you.” 

“Then I’d rather keep going.” Kissing up his jawline, you lead your way to his pout. His kisses intoxicated you with his passion and madness, like the most intense part of a symphony, or when the bass drops after a long build up in a song. 

Jeno sped up, ramming up into your slick pussy over and over again. He even brought your hips down to match him, guiding you down as he went up. The headboard was knocked against the wall, your windows steamed up, cries of pleasure from the both of you created the ambiance, the smell of sex filled your lungs. Jeno reached between your bodies to furiously rub your clit to where it felt almost raw. It all sent you into the clouds, the familiar queasiness settled in your lower half.

Your eyes rolled back and your back arched, having to pull away from the desirous kiss with Jeno. “I’m cumming!” You announced before the tension unraveled, causing you to see absolute white. The second wave was much more uncontrollable, Jeno felt you squeezing radically around his dick as he tried to fuck you faster to prolong the feeling.

Your legs shook around his and your upper body went limp with pleasure. You reached the peak of the mountain and it came crumbling down underneath your toes. It was catastrophically enthralling, to the point where you physically felt something leave your body.

“Oh shit..” Jeno stopped his motions at the sight of you squirting over his lap. He pampered your torso with fluttering kisses, hoping to calm your spastic body. “...baby, are you okay?” He asked with a bit of concern of how lack of life you seemed. 

This man just gave you the best climax in your whole life and he asked if you were okay? Regaining your senses, you sighed a small yes to reassure him that he didn’t actually murder you. Hopping off, you pulled the condom that restricted him.

He hissed when you cupped his balls in your palm. “Cum, my sweet thing.” You purred and Jeno’s hand pumped his member aggressively. You leaned in to help, sucking the tip and flicking your tongue over his slit. 

His other hand gripped your neck, causing you to drip on your sheets. Jeno was panting and with every tug, it became louder. He seemed so desperate to release that it made you smile to be the reason behind it. “Can you lay down,” A grunt followed his question, “please.” He huffed.

“Because you asked nicely.” Smirking, your back hit the sheets and you opened your legs to give Jeno a view. He situated himself above your stomach, as he fucked his tight grip.

“I’m cumming---” He couldn’t look any more amazing. With a final moan, the white streaks streamed out in short sequences. It landed across your abdomen, over your nipple, and pooled around your belly button. 

Bringing himself back to reality, Jeno stepped back to marvel you, his masterpiece. The white streaks coated your purple skin and your chest rose fast to catch your reality. Gazing upon your naked body, he was utterly infatuated with all of you. He was so in love with the sight of you that not a single photo could capture the beauty that you were. 

Jeno pondered the thought of how merely a day changed a small part of him. You were life changing, addicting, an incomparable character that he felt like he’s known forever, and now, couldn’t live without. It was the taste of your juices on his lips, your sweet melodic music that was your voice, your daring smile that enticed him to never peel away from you. It was simply you. 

He leaned down to rub his knuckles against your cheek, planting a lovingly peck on your forehead. “I’ll go start the water for you.” 

+

Jeno anticipated the reaction of his mentor. He found himself at the same scene he was when he was first given the task. Taemin sat across from him, hunched forward to analyze his new set of photos on his laptop. Raw, unedited photos of you, your body, your details. 

The hum of the air conditioning droned on, driving him mad. Jeno needed one reaction, but Taemin had been silent and expressionless for the past ten minutes. Whenever he did move, it was to click through to the next picture. 

Suddenly, he shut it closed and stood right up. Jeno, panicked, did the same. Taemin stuck his hand out and Jeno hesitantly grabbed it, incredibly unsettled and unable to read the older man.

Taemin received it firmly, giving Jeno a good handshake. “Welcome abroad, Lee Jeno. I expect even more great things from you.” 

Jeno registered his delightful mood switch and he was fast to follow up, “my photos, --- you --- like them?” 

Taemin nodded generously, patting Jeno on his shoulder. Taemin reached up to tap his own eyelids. “What you can see, is very special, kid. You’re an artist and I’m here to recognize that for you. It seems to me, you can do more than take pictures of sidewalks.” 

Jeno smiled happily, his eyes disappearing from joy. He couldn’t wait to tell you about it. 

The rest of the week, leading up to Jeno’s appointment, had felt nothing short of blissful moments together. You and Jeno spent almost every waking minute together without the cost of your friends’ time. He walked you to your classes, some even being across the campus from his own. You accompanied him for meals, even sitting in his lectures to just be with him.

There were no words that established what you two had become to each other. Jeno wasn’t looking for that anyways, in fact, he somewhat liked the ambiguity. If only he could tell you how making love to you made him begin to actually fall for you.

You were never one to hold a serious relationship, but you found a small want for that festering in Jeno. It was hard to admit to yourself, but Jeno saw you for all that you were. He truly saw you, whether it had been through a lens or through his own eyes. He captured your rawness and you were able to find vulnerability around him. 

He ran to you, where you sat in the lobby waiting for him to finish his meeting. Peering up from your phone, you noticed the beaming smile on the boy’s face. You couldn’t hold back your own grin, seeing him apparent with so much joy. “I’m guessing good things?”

“I got it, (Y/N)!” He jumped into your arms and you laughed at the sudden affection. “He loved my photos.” 

“I didn’t doubt it for one second. You’re an artist, Jeno. You create masterpieces that make even someone like me, feel like art.” 

Jeno hugged you closer to his chest, giving you a tiny squeeze. Pulling away to face you, his eyes examined your outstanding grace. You knew what he was already going to say, but simply wanted to hear him say it. “That’s because you are art.”

[mariaiscrafting]

ahhhh ty ty ty <3

ok, so I think that what makes Dream act this way (iykyk) is how dreamwastaken became so big so quickly. and by quick I mean fucking lightning speed.

he didn't have enough time to learn enough about cc etiquette, especially in these three aspects: influence, boundaries and fanbase/stans/whatever you call it. I'll try to explain it:

• Influence: Does he know the influence he has? Like, when he hears that he is the myct with the largest fanbase, does he really process that? I remember he talked about not being able to control all of his fanbase and there's bad apples everywhere -- which is true, and that only like 1% of his fanbase breaks his boundaries (that include sending hate for him, harassing, doxing, etc. yk, basic twitter culture lol) but, honey, with your big ass fanbase, 1% is still a lot of people. As a content creator you *have* to be aware of that.

let's take the hbomb situation. First off, as a streamer, it's you that set the mood of the stream. Even if he was only messing around with his pals, even if they did say to do not send hate to hbomb, dt dunking on him created a toxic environment, which caused his fans being toxic towards hbomb and you know what happens next. Hell, when this happened, I was watching Tapl and he was watching them and he was crying laughing over them screaming bc they were just. so loud and so aggressive that it was kinda ??? Sirs, this is literally a Minecraft Stream lmaooo

my point is, that was not the road that dreamwastaken, 21M fans, should've taken. he don't condone his fans actions but he knows his fans are diehard and will always be on his side, he should be more careful before stating negative opinions, especially if its towards another person.

• Boundaries and Fanbase: He posted a list of his boundaries a while ago, idk if you know or seen it (btw please george copy your bestie for the love of god <3) but I'm not talking about those boundaries, I'm talking about the basic boundaries between cc and viewer. boundaries that, in my opinion, should exist between cc and viewer. I get that Dream is an open person, an oversharing type of open person if I may add, but I think he should take a step back regardless. When I heard that he was taking a time from twitter, I genuinely got so glad, not because he couldn't start any drama then, but because it would do so so good for his mental health. I'm not even that fond of him, it's just that for me, any cc taking a break or outright leaving twitter is a win for me. I know how RSD is hard to deal and honestly letting shit out it's better but dream you have dt you have bbh so please don't make things worse online 😭 I know how good can be to feel validation from millions of people but. it's not a good idea, especially in the state that his fanbase is on rn (this topic is kinda sensitive to talk abt for me bc people be outright ableist and hide it as criticism like. say that shit's not helping his reputation and whatever without acting like he's fucking. manipulating his fanbase for being affected by his rsd💀 or, on the other hand, don't say that hes just being adhd🤪 when he's just being an asshole like damn that's a Him thing bro lol)

(omg it's so big I'm so sorry and theres a part two I'm so sorry tumblr user messed-up-gal ToT) - morango 1/2

pt. 2:

Dream is the proof that the people who loves you can be your downfall. istg. Have you noticed that every drama that Dream enters, people usually get more mad abt how his fanbase reacts (85% they'll react in a bad way) than Dream himself? it's not always, but its definitely more likely. I'm not saying Dream is saint, he Is petty and his ego does him dirty and made him choke multiple times before,, But! i dont think hes a bad guy. he's literally just a dude. ok, he's a 21yr old white gamer man that has a trumpie past (maybe?? idk. I think hes cured now ig lol) so he's bound to do some shitty things but he still tries to get better and hopefully he'll mature. 21 is old enough but it's still so young, yk? I kind of lost my mind during the end and my eyes are literally begging to be closed so tl;dr: Its gonna be hard for him to become a better cc bc his fans don't let him be criticized (by infantilizing his adhd symptoms or the mob mentality as soon as someone says anything abt him), the honest criticism get lost between lies from antis that don't know shit, he still has a lot of growing up to do and overall he became famous too fast and he needs to learn things even faster bc as soon as there's not a single one dream hater on sight they'll turn their back and attack him instead lmao I hate twitter i definitely have more to say but I'm tired and my memory is shit. just-- hate dream if you want, love dream if you want, nobody is obligated to have an opinion but I wanted to express mine. have a lovely day! -morango 2/2

Aight, there's a lot to unpack here, so Imma try to only go into the points I have something to add to (here's what I talk about in each paragraph, if you want to jump to a specific point):

Speed of Dream's rise to fame

The "bad apples" in the Dream fanbase

Post-MCC HBomb stream

Not condoning versus actually condemning his fans

Manipulation & RSD

Criticism of Dream, his fanbase, and his brand

The “just a dude” argument, flipped

First, I agree that one of the many factors that has resulted in the current image Dream has set up for himself, the way his fanbase functions, the ways people hate on him, and the way the Dream brand functions, is the speed of his rise to fame. It's unique, and there are probably a hundred social/psychological angles that could be used to examine the exact effects of that speed upon all of these facets of the Dream Name; did rapid fame beget the rapid rise of unrighteous hatred, did those waves of hatred then instigate the rise of a surprisingly overdefensive fanbase, did that rapid fame get to his head and/or result in an inability to appropriately handle all the after-effects of rapid fame, etc.? That point you bring up, about how the speed of his rise to fame requires him to learn even more quickly, is so interesting to me. I think that maybe Dream expected to get pretty famous pretty quickly, hence the preparedness in regards to some mechanics of influencer fame- merchandise, business-building, networking, knowing how to manage his fanbase to best benefit him. But I don't think he expected to get this famous this quickly. This is all speculation of course, as are this entire post and your ask, but I think that he just couldn't anticipate having to learn how to handle enmasse controversy, waves of antis, or every Youtuber speculating/knowing about him; and yeah, that results in him having to learn all of these things very quickly, lest he allow his whole brand and fandom to fall apart.

Second, I disagree with the frequent argument that Dream's fanbase is only marginally toxic. Personally, I think that the circumstances of Dream's fame, his personality and management of his fanbase, and his brand of content have resulted in the very specific kind of stan that Dream stans are. I don't think this is simply a case of "all fandoms have a small percentage of assholes who take it too far;" rather, the nature of the community itself breeds the kind of mentality of "an asshole who takes it too far." I only even know this because I was a Dream fan (kinda a stan, I'm ngl). At one time, I watched every single Dreamwastaken & Dream Team video multiple times; I listened to the Manhunts on repeat, as though they were podcasts; I followed mostly smiletwt and dttwt accounts on mcyttwt; I had upwards of 10 tabs for AO3 DNF fics open on my phone at a time; I watched DNF and Dream Team Being A Family-esque compilations on repeat; I watched every George and Sapnap alt stream I possibly could; I went out of my way to defend Dream against Redditors and Twitter antis regarding the cheating scandal. For the latter half of 2020, and a couple months of 2021, I lived and breathed this part of the fandom; so when I say that Dream stans are a whole other breed than any other kind of mcyttwt stan, I say that because I used to be like that, too. I usually use parasocial very loosely or ironically, but Dream stans are genuinely one of the most parasocial fanbases I have ever seen or been a part of. The level of investment Dream stans have in this man's life, the lengths they will go to to defend him, the amount of psychonalysis and digging they do on his life and character, the amount of emotion he can evoke in them- it's taken to another level, man. This isn't just characteristic of a fraction of his fanbase; this is what the fanbase is like as a whole.

Third, I partially disagree with your take on the HBomb thing, but not in the way one might think? I actually empathize with the way they reacted much more than I thought I would, simply because I suspect I have RSD (also suspect I have ADHD, have for several months now) and I can see myself getting insanely frustrated because of something like that. Like yeah, it was "just a MC stream" or "just an MC game," but that's kinda disregarding the fact that something that might seem like "just a [insert inconsequential thing]" to a rational mind might have a major emotional consequence/take a major emotional toll on someone with RSD, or really anyone who gets easily impatient/angry about video games (Sapnap reminds me of many of my friends, in that way). The issues I, personally, had with the way they handled the HBomb situation is that these are simply explanations and reasons for my empathy; they are not excuses. I have no excuse when I get irrationally angry about something inconsequential in my own life, for a couple of reasons. One, because I am an adult and I need to learn how to handle my reactions and manage my own anger. Two, because as someone with many mental problems, it is my responsibility to learn coping mechanisms to ensure my own emotional stability and livelihood; this includes learning whatever I need to handle RSD- whether that be isolating myself from others when I know I will become violently/passionately angry about something, creating and sustaining a support system that can get me through bouts of extreme emotion, finding healthy emotional outlets for my negative emotions that won't harm myself or others, or a combination thereof. I don't think what they said about HBomb post-MCC was an irreversibly horrible thing, or anything. I think there were errors committed by two men who should be fully capable of foreseeing and preventing those errors, but I don't unconditionally hate Dream or Sapnap for the post-MCC stream or comments. I just wish they had made amends quickly, publicly, and sufficiently, because the greatest consequences from the whole thing weren't even from those two criticizing HBomb themselves; they were from the waves of backlash because of their immense influence on the MCYT fandom, which could've been prevented, if they had acted maturedly and responsibly after the stream.

Fourth, you’re right, that he doesn’t seem to condone his fans’ behavior. I detest the frequent anti argument that one of the reasons Dream should be criticized is because he explicitly uses his fanbase to attack others, or something of the sort. Personally, I think he created his fanbase in a very specific way and interacts with them in such a way so as to benefit him as much as possible, yes, but he never actually tells his fanbase to go and yell at or harrass anyone. Still, there is a significant difference between not condoning something and condemning something. It might seem unfair, and it might be annoying of me to say this, but I truly think that someone with this large a fanbase, especially one as overzealous as Dream’s, needs to be condemned every single time it goes on some kind of rampage/harrassment campaign. Either that, or Dream needs to make a definitive, permanent statement against any kind of harrassment of others on his behalf. I know he’ll occassionally make the odd tweet or serious stream addressing something his fanbase did, but one of the many reasons his fanbase keeps doing the same damn thing is because he’s so lukewarm and spotty about this condemnation. A fanbase like his needs to be given explicit guidance and boundaries for the numerous things they do in his defense- harrassing/doxing antis, harrassing people who criticize him who aren’t antis (respectful criticism, other CCs, other MCYT stans, etc.), harrassing the people he critcizes (i.e., HBomb), speculating about his personal life (his relationship with his gf, his mental health/ADHD, his romantic life, his childhood, etc.), and speculating about his relationships with his friends and colleagues.  My personal ideology is that, if you have significant influence over someone or a group of people, you are at least somewhat responsible for the things those people do or don’t do, if it at all relates back to you. I’m so fucking tired of the argument that CCs aren’t responsible for what their fans do. Obviously they aren’t responsible for every single one of their fans, and obviously they can’t fully control their fans at the end of the day. But I think there are certain things that reach such a level of extremity that does make those CCs responsible. This can be measured by either scale or intensity; that is to say, if a CC’s fanbase does things on an extremely large scale, or one person from/a fraction of the fanbase does something really extreme, then the CC is made all the more responsible. Another CC I’ve always had trouble discussing with other people on this subject is Pewdiepie, in particular, about the extremists in his fanbase. Because the things a small handful of his fans have done in reference to him and/or in his name were so fucking extreme, I thought Pewdiepie had to take at least some responsibilty. Along a similar vein, because the things Dream’s general fanbase does are so widespread and on such a massive scale, Dream has to take at least some responsibility.

Fifth, okay. Hmmm. I want to tackle this point you made about the ableism he faces in some criticism of him carefully and with empathy, but not coddling. One, I do think a lot of the criticism he receives for the ways he handles criticism (post-cheating Tweets, reactions to John Swan, post-MCC HBomb stream, etc.), disregard his RSD and can be oftentimes ableist. I’ve actually encountered people irl who criticize this aspect of Dream’s character, and have had to explain to them their disregard for how ADHD/RSD affect neurodivergent people’s reactions to criticism. But - and this is a big, and very controversial but - I think mentally ill/disordered people can 100% leverage their mental illness/disorders for the sake of manipulation. This is actually something I’ve learned from a psychiatrist, regarding the ways people I know and I handle our anxiety and depression. This manipulation can be unwitting or intentional, but it is entirely possible, and the possibility shouldn’t be entirely dismissed as ableist. Living with a mental illness or disorder that others know about/that you are very public about puts you in an interesting position to receive frequent sympathy, empathy, and/or pity. I’m not saying that empathy for Dream having ADHD/RSD is entirely unjustified; on the contrary, I have frequently expressed how I can relate to his ADHD symptoms and have defended him for expressing those symptoms, both on mcytblr and in real life. I am saying that Dream fans tend to use his ADHD as a kind of shield for a lot of criticism levied against him, including the supposition that he could be manipulating his fanbase to defend him because of his public expressions of RSD. So yes, my theory is that Dream knows how to levy every aspect of his life for his personal gain and for the growth of his brand, and that includes his ADHD. I think he has courage for his openess about his ADHD, I think his openness has contributed to the rise in awareness of mental health and empathy for neurodivergent people within Gen Z, and I think at least some of his expressions of RSD publicly/online weren’t intentionally made public. All that being said, I also think he has to know just how much his fanbase cares about defending him for his ADHD, and I think he has to know that some of the things he does related to his neurodivergence endear him to his audience, in a coddling, baby-ing, mildly ableist sorta way.  Maybe this is all incredibly presumptuous of me. Of course, I can never know the real intentions behind any Dream video, Tweet, or stream. Maybe I’m just projecting, because I can see myself doing just this, if I had the maturity I had circa 2018-2019. Idfk know, man.

Sixth, I actually agree with you here, people probably do get more mad at his fanbase than him. Dream puts out content pretty seldomly, considering the frequency of content output for other Youtubers/streamers in his field/at his brand size. And yet, he has received masses of criticism. Considering that the things Dream himself does/says do not entirely correlate with the amount of criticism he receives, I think it’s a logical assumption that a lot of that criticism actually goes back to the size of his presence online, rather than the man himself. That is to say, because of the massive community he’s amassed, the exponential growth of his fanbase, their presence on every single social media site and in virtually every single Internet space/fandom, and the size of his metaphysical presence in his fields, Dream is much bigger than the man himself, so the criticism he receives will, at least in part, be a direct or indirect result of all these other aspects of the Dream brand.  Something I don’t think many Dream fans/stans, or even most MCYT fans in general, understand, is that Dream isn’t just “one guy” in the eyes of the Internet- at least, not anymore. He hasn’t been for nearly a year. Like Pewdiepie, Mr. Beast, and other CCs who have amassed similar levels of fame and wealth via Internet content creation, Dream is a brand now, and most people will treat him as such. He isn’t just some uwu soft boy playing Minecraft anymore. He is on a whole other level from any other MCYT in his friend circle or colleague interaction bubble. His words will never again live in a vaccum or private bubble, his friend circle will never again be under anything less than intense scrutiny, his past actions will never again be simple mistakes or silly errors, his words will never again be casual tweets or streams for laughs among a couple thousand followers. Dream’s name represents something much bigger than just the one man. As such, all aspects of his brand, including his fanbase, will tie back to him and, ultimately, to any general criticism of him.

I’m not saying I like any of this, and I actually think the evolution of influencers from people to a marketable brand with similar mechanisms, responsibilities, and liabilities as a corporation is some kind of late capitalism nightmare fuel; I’m just stating my own observations and theories as to why so much anti-Dream criticism seems to be directed at his fanbase, rather than him.

Seventh, he’s just a guy, you’re right, but I think a lot of the antis on Tumblr understand this more than you know. As I’ve seen it, the sentiment among much of the “DSMP stans DNI” crowd seems to be that of “Dream/other MCYTs are such ‘bad’ people, so why do their fans stick to these mediocre, racist men, when there are so many better people to watch/better content to consume?” We know this argument is flawed for many of the obvious reasons - the conflation of all MCYTs’ actions regardless of individual identity, the equating of a CC’s fanbase’s morality to that of the CC they enjoy watching, the exxageration of any error MCYT CCs have committed as bigotry/racism, the fundamental misunderstanding and misinformation that led antis to believe this exxageration of the facts, etc. But I want to focus on the general, underlying sentiment of, “why not watch someone better, when your creator is problematic?” Sometimes, I ask this of Dream stans. Yes, being mildly ignorant, getting involved in the scandals Dream has, and being a right-leaning/libertarian centrist in the recent past all seem like harmless things, all things considered. One could say Dream isn’t nearly as bad as many antis who are misinformed seem to believe, and that there are much worse CCs Dream stans could be watching and creating fan content for. But I think what Tumblr antis wonder is, aren’t there also much better MCYTs/CCs people could be watching and stanning? Because he’s just some guy, right? Is his content truly so exceptional or is he really so exceptional a person, that people have to stick by him, despite the things that spike up regarding his current or past actions? I think that’s what made me finally decide to stop watching Dream. I realized he was just Some Guy. The Dream Team was a comforting dynamic to indulge in, DNF was a cute ship to read and speculate about, and Manhunts were fun videos to watch; however, once the Reddit posts came out and I read them in-depth, the cost-benefit analysis tipped over to the “not worth it” side for me. I realized Dream’s content, while fun and comforting, was not entirely unique, and wasn’t worth sticking around for, given what I then knew about his past political leanings. If he is just Some Guy, then there are a hundred more like him out there. There a hundred more ships, a hundred more found family dynamics, a hundred more entertaining and skilled Minecraft players. So while I agree with you on the point of people being allowed to love him regardless because he is just a guy, at the end of the day, I think that, if we are to believe that sentiment or use that argument in such a manner, we should also understand the flip side- that, if he is just some guy, why is it worth sticking around? To that I say, maybe because people just enjoy the simple things they enjoy.

Anyways, I wholly agree with your tl;dr. Thanks for that insanely long ask, this was a fun thing to keep me occupied while I’ve been at work, facilitating Zoom sessions this whole morning.

[spookypotato]

Maybe a fic where after Sirius’ ankle is broken initially ( like the first couple of hours after) they think he won’t be able to play again because the doctors thought it was worse than it was and the team are told to prepare for the worst and we get to see their reactions :(

Sorry lol I’m just OBSESSED with your writing, I get so giddy reading them bc they are so so perfect

Thank you so, so much! It means a lot someone enjoys my writing that much. And please dont apologise for giving me good ideas to write and compliments that make my day!💛

Okay, I don't know if this is what you wanted. But I hope you like it anyway! Sorry I took longer than last time. I haven't forgotten about any prompts, I just had a bit of a block.

Characters, again, by the wonderfully talented @lumosinlove! Thank you!💜

The lights were too bright. But Sirius tired to open his eyes anyway. James was sitting next to him. How the hell had he gotten into his house?! Then memories came back, cracking of bones, emergency sirens, a stadium erupting in booing noises.

He was in the hospital. His foot hurt a lot less than he expected, but it was also in a splint at the moment.

As soon as James noticed, that Sirius was awake -or at least had his eyes semi open- he hugged him rather aggressively.

"Mate, idiot, I thought you were dying!", James voice was muffled by the pillows.

"I did tell him, that you would 100% survive, though.", Remus interrupted Sirius thought process.

Not really being able to say anything yet, he just took in the scene he was presented with.

The cubs, off to the far left of his room, had probably just stopped playing a game with Olli. The cards were all over the table and Sirius couldnt even try to guess what they had been playing. But they were all facing him now.

Next to them Kasey sat a bit further away, but clearly in a position were he could look into Logans and Finns cards and observe the game.

In the middle of the room stood Kuny, Nado, Dumo, Thomas and pretty much their whole team. They barely fit into the room.

To the left stood Arthur and Moody, both relieved at him being awake. They had probably been discussing something about the season.

Right on his bed sat James. Still hugging him. Sirius wouldn't put it past him, to just stay like that for the next few days. Lily was sitting next to his bed on the right, reading her magazine. She was clearly not surprised about James' behaviour.

And then there was Remus. Probably sitting the closest to him after, off course James. Right to his left. There was no magazine or playing cards or even his smartphone anywhere close to him. He might have just arrived. Although he did look a bit too tired for that. Remus looked relieved, but also somehow pained.  Sirius didnt know if it was, because of his ankle or because of something else.

His thoughts were interrupted by James, again. "Sirius, are you with us?"

Now the whole room was staring at him.

"Ouais, je suis réveillé.", it came out as a raspy sound. "Can I-", he coughed. "Can I have some water, please?"

James got his water not even a split second after, from his bedside table. He almost spilt the contents over the hospital sheets.

After he drank the entire cup in one go, he put it back next to his bed. He only realised now that there were flowers and chocolate there.

Chocolate- how ironic. No one in a hockey team would ever gift another hockey player chocolate. It wasnt on their meal plan. How long would he be gone, if he was allowed to eat chocolate?! He would be able to play again, right? Panic went through his entire body.

That moment a doctor came in. Everybody looked at her expectantly.

"Mr. Black", she started, "you broke your ankle, and you were in surgery, a few hours ago. I'm glad to see you have already woken up. That's a good sign. I have to inform you however that there were complications with the surgery, so you'll probably not be allowed to leave for at least the next week. Also-"

"I'm sorry, doctor, but that wont be possible.", Sirius interrupted her. "We have a very important game this weekend, and not only do I need to play, but I need to practice. I can stay no longer than today."

I would have been funny, that Sirius Black tried to debate with a Doctor about his body's state, but in this situation the doctors expression seemed to morph into a sad one.

"I wasnt suggesting it, Mr. Black. You will stay here, for at least a week. After that, we'll check on your state and if we decide to let you go home, you'll have to rest for at least 10 weeks to let the bone fully heal"

"But-", Sirius tried to say, but was cut of by the doctor again.

It was like a child complaining about not being allowed to have a certain toy.

"Once your bone has fully healed, you'll need to learn how to properly walk on it again."

"And afterwards I can start practice again?", Sirius sounded like he at least tried to accept his fate. He wouldn't be able to play the whole season.

"I dont think that will be what's happening. I'm sorry to inform you, but at the moment, it doesn't look like your ankle would handle the pressure of being on the ice in a professional state again."

"Does that mean he can never play again?", James asked, his voice sounded a bit shot.

It was only then that Sirius realised again, that he wasnt alone in the room.

"As it is now, no. I'm sorry. It could potentially change, but it is highly unlikely", the doctor told them. Even she didnt seem as neutral now as when she appeared. But then again, all of gryffindor loved their lions. She was probably almost as devastated as any other person in gryffindor.

"Thank you", was the only thing Sirius could choke out. This was all to much information at once.

As the doctor wanted to leave, James got up.

"Cant you bloody do something?! Anything? Please? We need him. Anything?"

The doctor just repeated herself. "I'm sorry, but as of now, the only thing we can do is wait how Sirius body reacts to the injury." With that she left the room, Arthur and Moody following her.

James sat down again. And hugged Sirius tightly and awkwardly, because he was still lying on the hospital bed. "Please tell me if you need anything, Pads.", he whispered.

The rest of the room hadnt said a word until now. Sirius was thankful for it. But they were all staring at him. Waiting for some kind of reaction.

"Guys, I'm fine.", Sirius lied. "How did the snakes game end? I want every detail."

He didnt listen. But he was pretty sure someone explained.

So many emotions were running through his mind.

He was furious. At Snape for hitting him. At the world for making it happen to him. At the doctors for not doing more. At himself for blaming everything else except himself.

He was sad. This was it. His career was over. He would maybe sit on the bench during games, if the team would even let him. He probably wasnt even part of the team anymore. He would be able to come to the first few games. And then fewer and fewer. Until the crowd had forgotten him. Until the team had forgotten him. Until he was just an ex-hockey player, sat in this massive house, alone and unwanted, all over again.

"Sirius.", a gentle voice pulled him out of his thoughts. "Sirius, are you listening?" It was Remus', his hand now on Sirius' arm. As he looked down Loops pulled it away.

"Yeah, no, a bit, sorry." Sirius replied, " I was a bit lost in thought." As the rest of the team almost gave him a another sad look, he added "Just thinking about your new training plans and how exhausted you will all be. Next time you need to show the damn snakes not to mess with lions." This was one of the first times he wished, he could be exhausted with them.

The team didn't laugh. Logan moved his chair closer to Sirius bed.

"Next time we'll win. For you."

"Wow, if I would have known it just needed at hit, to get you more ambitious, I would have been down months ago.", Sirius joked. It wasnt funny. He didn't even laugh himself, although he tried. It came out as a short, bitter one.

The team was staring at him again. It was horrible. He didnt want their pity. He wanted to get back on the ice, now. But he couldn't. He would never be able to skate again. In his life. It was over. Everything was over.

[lunchador]

so when do we get the long post about your feelings about dragon age inquisition!!! i dunno if u wanna wait until dlc or not! i am i n t e r e s t e d (also its ok if u dont feel up to it im just!!!! again, interested in ur opinions/feelings)

kajsldkjf PLEASE I HAVE SO MANY DA FEELINGS ALL THE TIME and Inquisition was twice as long as the others so might as well do a word vomit now and I can always do another after the dlc (which several people have assured me are worth playing )

SO

Yeah so inquisition is long. I dislike open world games so a lot of the (super repetitive!!) side quests did grate on my nerves and that docks this game a few points but over all the LORE IS SO GOOD, and it tying in so many choices in from 1+2 is the greatest butterfly effect I ever experienced in video games. I thought telltale + Until dawn were fun for that but good LORD bioware has showed up all of those games and I am really stoked to try mass effect when its out later and play more bw games. I only played Anthem before this and that game seemed...idk, gutted against BW’s wishes.

ANYWAY

Yeah, I managed to go into the whole DA series knowing very, very little, despite how many artists I followed did fanart for it. Once I started playing, I added all the words I could think of to my blacklist but a lot of untagged stuff came through (fair, series is 10+ years old and inq is like what 4-5?). I allowed my friends to pressure me into playing an elf mage for the lore and to romance solas cuz they said he was as important to the story as alistair was. A lot of online followers said I should play how I wanted, which I def would recommend to anyone else, but honestly I can see where they came from and while he never would have been my first choice, I think he actually paired REALLY well with my Inq and how I was playing her. I put her as sensitive but trying to put her responsibility above herself, she was definitely the least funny of my 3 characters, but not incredibly serious. A bit reserved? Just more mature. She’s got faith but she didn’t think she was the chosen one but she’ll do her role the best of her ability. She makes hard decisions and then sobs her chest empty over them because how is one to ever feel like its the right one? I really like how the game lets you choose how you wanna approach the responsibility. Like i said, I wasn’t a reluctant chosen one, but she will do what she can. Versus my friend playing at the same time as me said he played as the second coming of jesus essentially lmfao Having so many characters come back for different roles was so GOOD!!! Like everyone told me Varric was in this one but were like ‘teehee you still cant romance him though’ but you how you play drastically changes your relationships with each person. Tons of characters I met I knew would be personal favorites but I ended up interacting way less because others were more fitting to my inquisitor. So i.e while I love Varric and would’ve smooched him a heartbeat with Hawke, I didn’t get that vibe with Clover. They were really good friends, he was a grounded friend with a sense of humor that was a good escape from everyone else and the ~inquisition~. At least, until the Beyond the Abyss quest. That obviously heavily fractured their friendship and hurt them both :( And i felt that for a long time, until the end. He looked tired. Poor guy is gonna be borderline dead in 4 at this point. But so many side characters you talk to coming back like Dagna and Samson??? Speaking of that quest, I got Stroud because, yeah...Alistair was dead for me and APPARENTLY IT COULD ALSO BE LOGHAIN??? If he stays a grey warden??  wish I did that so def would’ve preferred to save Hawke even if I think the wardens are more important as a concept but like.......i wanted to behead him, so....But yes even tiny details like..Varric wrote home to kirkwall to Carver for me because the rest of my family was dead and I never completed a full romance in 2 lkajslkdjf but the fact that changes based on your play through. BUT YEAH THE way this game weaves all your decisions in and how yeah, overall the story is the same but it makes it so personal to YOU and so different from everyone else ;w;

But I could see my Inq genuinely falling for Solas, and I see her best friends as Cassandra and Blackwall/Thom. Really close to Leliana and the Iron Bull as well. I just loved all their interactions. All the characters were so cool to get to know?? Like I thought I would’ve hated Cullen (hes a dick in O) and tbh I just got into the series as the VA was being a complete shit. But I liked him a lot!! I love the work buddies vibes between the Inq and the advisors. I thought I was going to love Sera!! And like, I did, but she hated my Inquisitor and their personalities clashed a lot. Shes the only one i didn’t get a cut scene for in the end :’) I loved coming back from story quests and having to take like 20 minutes to go around skyhold and make sure I talked to /everyone/ for their new dialogue. You genuinely feel connected to all these wonderful npcs ljkasljdf

I wanted to make Cassandra the new divine but I made leliana on accident and kinda dug it so I stuck with it. VARRIC IS THE NEW VISCOUNT??? h i l a r i o u s.

One of the things I loved the most in this game in particular, and while this is something in all of them it just really struck me in this one, was....everyone gave up so so much to devote themselves to the cause, y’know?? Like, it’s almost heartbreaking how much everyone loses and they’re still looking towards you with their belief and willingness to follow you to the end ;-;

The final fight almost felt, Idk, underwhelming? Dude dragons are way tougher than him asdkjhfkhjd. I even went up a difficulty in this game after feeling like I got the hang of the series. But at the same time, we just spend how many hours knocking down each and one of his advantages so fuck him lol.

But yeah there are so many things I wanted to do but I felt so worn out by mindless sidequests and story being level locked in comparison to the previous games. askdjhflkd

One of the things that blows my mind is so so many people were stoked i was playing DA and they couldn’t wait til I got to Inq, and so I find out most people I know only ever played Inquisition? TBH if I didn’t play O+2 I think I would’ve dropped inquisition and never finished it *shrug* all of the build up just means SO MUCH!!! Everyones argument seems to be the older games are ugly and yeah O has rough battle system but its easy to get over imo. Like, you need the chaos of 2 to get the real weight of the mage/templar stuff?? Theres so many characters and story and dialogue that go over your head without Origins?? Like yes inq can stand alone pretty well but, idk, I’m in love with this entire series and the world building and THE!! WAY!!! IT!!! ALL!!! CONNECTS!!!!!!!!!!!

I love how a quest can go differently by whos in your party, I love you can have more dialogue based on lore you’ve managed to pick up around, I love HOW COMPANIONS BICKERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! The lore of these games are so good. It’s like playing an epic line of novels. It’s so immersive and I don’t think I’ve played too many games to this level.

I didn’t like the skill trees to being a mage in this one, Idk why. It wasn’t nearly as fun for me as 2, but then  again I really fucking liked being a force mage haha. I wanted to be a rogue to complete a diff class per game but everyone said mage brings a lot more interesting story/lore stuff so

but yeah I love having the full context now and seeing other peoples Wardens/Hawkes/Inquisitors and asking people how they played and how their options differed from mine and THERES JUST SO MANY POSSIBLE DECISION TREES!!!!! No wonder the fans play over and over.

but yeah ultimately so much fucking happened?? I’m probably missing a lot of key points.

[paradise-creator]

Hi! May I have a romantic heaven box BNHA matchup, please? :)

I'm Flo, a 19 years old bisexual girl.

Appearance: I'm 164 cm(~5'3) tall, with slim, kinda athletic body. I have medium long brown hair and same coloured deer-eyes(probably most attractive part on me), I also wear eyesglasses. I have thin mouth unfortunately. Also, I have a tiny little scar above my right eyebrow(I opened our car's door on my head years ago lolol), it's barely visible. I'm vain and always dress like a lady: so dresses and skirts, I have a classy, elegant or cute style, depends on my daily outfit. I wear light makeup, but not all the time.

Personality: Ambiverted, Virgo with Leo ascendant and Pisces moon. Needless to say, these already represent how confusingly dual my personality is. My behaviour constatntly changes, depending on who I am with: I try to sell myself, being two-faced, wearing a mask(sometimes I appear to be talkative, other times full-stoic), but to people I really do love, I'm quite blunt. Most of the time I'm caring and relatively kind person(but can be an asshole&harsh if tired emotionally). Highly critical, opinionated and rational-thinker, and I usually analyze everything: movies, books, other people, myself. HATE small talk, I always want to talk about some deep shit, sharing my opinions, thougts(only if you ask for it). Enjoy debating. Also, I'm the REALLY clumsy, like clumsy af and I have an invincible talent in getting myself into the most embarrassing, cringe situations. Hate appearing to be weak or crying in front of others(I never do), and generally I can get melancolic and depressed easily. I don't really trust even my loved ones, I always hide my deepest emotional(or whatever) issues, I just can't stand the fact being emotionally vulnerable. Also, I bottle up feelings well. But I can be soft sometimes which suprises people. One of my best friends said, I am suprising, always doing something unpredicted. Additionally, I stress over something all the time. About my humour, it's kinda ironic, dark, morbid, troll-ish; roasting, teasing people 24/7. Don't worry, despite my sometimes serious act, I can be a total dumb idiot. Selfish, vain, lazy,  snobbish hahah. Quite liberal, and I almost never judge people, I mind my own buisness. When I can talk about something I love or just sharing my opinion, I am passionate and be ready for a LONG rambling. Oh, I love alcohol and going out with friends, also I smoke those occassions. Plus, I have god-like hands, everyone told me that I could earn money bc of my massaging skills(I just know by instict how to touch people lol). Oh, and I daydream and zone out a lot.

Relationship: I don't really have a 'type' but I get bored easily: I takes a lot for me to really like in long-term a person, so I fall easier for complex and charismatic ones(but like I said, I can fall for other personalities too!!). I'm a quite difficult person to be with and to love, so I'm suprisingly flexible in a relationship. Only thing I need and without it wouldn't work at all: DEEP CONVOS AND SOME INTELLECT. Also, I have a quite roasting-bullying type humour, so my lover should understand and being able to handle that. Anyways, I'm not much of a PDA person(but I don't mid handholding, short hugs etc. if my partner really want to), and not romantic at all(also cannot flirt hehe), and for a long time I can be bit distant. Love language is words of affirmation&quality time, and if I have to express my feelings I'm best with acts of service. I love cuddling, ppl are suprised when I initiate hugs but tbh I love physical affection. I'm probably more likely the 'friend' lover. I need a lot, lot, lot alone time.

Hobbies/Likes: classical literature, theatre, politics, hiking, sightseeing, mysteries, reading about disappearances(crimes), trying out new things, yoga, running, horse riding, table tennis, listening to music

Sorry if I was too long, then just ignore me, hehe~

↬ ──:.⃗➹ +.*༉‧ᵕ̈°`*↷. ೃ₊✎⸙͎˚- ̗̀✧: ──↫

┊         ┊       ┊   ┊    ┊        ┊       ┊         ⊹

┊  ⋆｡   ┊       ┊   ┊    ┊        ┊      ⋆｡˚. ੈ

┊         ┊ ⋆｡  ┊   ┊   ˚✩ ⋆｡˚  ✩

┊         ┊       ┊   ✫

┊         ┊       ☪︎⋆                                      ⋆✩

┊ ⊹     ┊                     ⋆｡˚. ੈ

✯ ⋆      ┊ .  ˚                                   ⊹

           ˚     ✩

Dream catcher loading...

ɴᴏᴡ ʟᴏᴀᴅɪɴɢ

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*ﾟ ﾟ･ ✧.｡. *. •.°

┊┊┊┊           

┊┊┊☆                 

┊┊☁️　　

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┊☆　

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☁️   

┊  

☁️

Hello and Welcome my Starlight!

The Haven box includes:

- Match up

- Sun drop

- Flashes of memory

- Such a loser

───✱*.｡:｡✱*.:｡✧*.｡✰*.:｡✧*.｡:｡*.｡✱ ───

I'd match you up with

Bakugou Katsuki, Dynamight

───✱*.｡:｡✱*.:｡✧*.｡✰*.:｡✧*.｡:｡*.｡✱ ───

Sun drops

- Honestly it took me a LONG time to think who you would match with

- There was Momo, Jiro, Denki, and Iida. I just couldnt pick

- But in the end, I choose my first option, Bakugou

- With Bakugou, one is never bored

- His sarcasm and snarky attitude can prove to be entertaining!

- Though he may not seem like it, Bakugou seem like a type of person that will never do small talk

- He's more of a listener tbh

- At first the relationship may be rough but in the end it all works out

- Bakugo is a complicated character, it's hard to read him and that's what makes it exciting

- He isn't into pda but in private, expect some INTIMATE times

- AGRESSIVE COMFORT

- He finds you so cute and entertaining whenever you tease/Bully other people

- ROAST COMPETITION NO CAP

───✱*.｡:｡✱*.:｡✧*.｡✰*.:｡✧*.｡:｡*.｡✱ ───

Flashes of memory

Bakugou: Oi, Dumass!

Requester: Yes?

Bakugou: I Fucking love you so stop being a Dumbass!

Requester: I love you too and I'M NOT A DUMBASS

Bakugo: Your MY dumb

------------------------

Random guy: *Flirts with requester*

Requester: *Is trying not to kill the man*

Bakugou: TAKE THAT YOU PIECE OF SHIT! DON'T FLIRT WITH MY IDIOT

Kirishima: Ah, here we go again--BAKUBRO DON'T KILL HIM

-------------------------

Bakugo: OI, NERD

Requester: *ignores*

Bakugo: OI DUMBASS DONT IGNORE ME!

Requester: *Continues to ignore*

Bakugo: Fine! I'm sorry for gatting you mad

Requester: That wasn't so hard now is it?

───✱*.｡:｡✱*.:｡✧*.｡✰*.:｡✧*.｡:｡*.｡✱ ───

Such a loser

"Oi, I heard from Shittyhair you've been criticizing yourself to harshly again. What are you such a dumbass?" Bakugou yelled as she stomped his way towards his girlfriend. "And what if I am?" She replied as she looked away from her book. The brown haired girl was just peacefully reading in her dorm. Nothing much was really going on, she was just studying. She has the tendency to be harsh on herself. And with classmates like hers, it often happens. And as a Boyfriend, Bakugou thinks it's his responsibility and his problem that if his love is sad or hurt or insecure, he will make sure they are loved.

"Get off of the fucking floor and go to bed. We're gonna cuddle and you can't say no as an answer," Bakugo growled. The girl sighed and placed her book down, it's not like she wants to deny anyway. So they went to lay on the bed. Bakugo pulled her head on his chest and wrapped an arm around her." You idiot! Stop being harsh on yourself, dammit," He said as he placed his head on top of hers. "You are already perfect. That's why you got to shut taht pretty little mouth of yours and accept that you are," He added.

───✱*.｡:｡✱*.:｡✧*.｡✰*.:｡✧*.｡:｡*.｡✱ ───

Author's note

Hello there! Sorry for the wait, I was quite tired but here is the Haven box as requested.

[azrasclaw]

part 2 to the roadtrip angst!!!

this is so bad i- have no words lol 

______________________________________________________________

you’re not bitter. okay, you are, but you act indifferent. and if you arent as engaged in the final decoration of the van or shrug to questions of which clothes to take with them; well, maybe you’re tired. you did have three essays due that week. 

“you’re staying here, right?” e glances at you as he packs his charger. 

“no, i’m going home, i told you.” you answer, passing him the powerbank he forgot on his nightstand. 

this brings him to a halt, looking up at you leaning back on his pillows. 

“but this is home, babe.” he says and he sounds so timid, you almost smile and say you’re right. 

“what’s my appartment then, a hotel?” you joke, grinning at him. 

“i mean, yeah. almost. you’re almost always here, y/n.” he says, discarding your attempt to lighten the mood. 

his eyes flit all over the room, contemplating. he doesnt like the thought of you back in your cold lonely appartment. he doesnt like the neighborhood your cheap appartment is located at. doesnt like your neighbours; your landlord with the creepy mustache below you, always peeping out of the door when you enter the building; the rude lady next to yours banging against the wall when you so much as drop a coin. 

“yeah, but only because you guys are here, gorgeous.” you tell him. he grins to himself at your pet name. g walks in with a sweater in his hand, looking stressed. 

“dude, this is yours.” he huffs, flinging the sweater at e and himself on the bed next to you.

“y/n says she’s gonna stay at her place ‘til were back.” he deadpans, catching the shirt and stuffing it into his bag. 

g’s head snaps back to look at you in disbelief. 

“what? why?”

“oh my god, you two are so dramatic. so i’m staying in my own home while you’re away, what’s the big deal?”

“your landlord is creepy as fuck and that woman-”

“is so rude.” they finish in unison. 

“yeah, well, i’m not going to stay here like a lost puppy waiting for you two to come back. i have an entire week off, i’ll clean my appartment and spend time with-”

“you have the week off?!” e interrupts, eyes big on his face. 

“yes. i told you already, i took the week off because of the roadtrip.” you chuckle, feeling stupid that you wasted your vacation on... nothing. 

“i- didnt know you took the week off.” g mumbles, fumbling with a loose string on his shirt. you sigh.

“it’s my fault, i shouldnt have assumed that i’d come with you, it’s okay though, i’ll relax a bit and start working on some projects. i should meet up with lily, she’s been asking to go out for weeks.” you ramble, torn between making them feel some remorse about leaving you and not wanting to ruin their trip with that guilt.

“and i’m guessing you start working again the day we’re back, meaning we wont get to spend any time with you.” e pointed out, guessing correctly. 

g barks out an ironic laugh, his attitude annoys you, your chest swelling with indignation that you had fought to keep back. 

“classic, y/n.” he adds. 

“i had thought we’d spend a lot of time together on the trip but i get it, quality is important.” you roll your eyes. 

“guys, lets not fight right now, we’re about to leave i dont wanna part like this.” e warns, cooling you off slightly but g doesnt even acknowledge him.

“sorry we care about our jobs and cant spend all our time with you, y/n. this is a work trip, you know” g retorts. 

you flush; you didnt think they’d perceived you as clingy. 

“oh, sorry, if you’re so sick of me it’s a good thing i’m not coming, then. wouldnt wanna keep you from your job” you snap, seething. 

“yeah, you know, maybe distance will do us some good.” 

e looks between you two, dumbfounded at how the situation has escalated so quickly. 

your chest burns, you guess that its your pride being fried in there. your breath quickens but you feel like there’s no oxygen entering your lungs. 

“i should leave now. have fun on your trip.” you sniff, getting up and collecting some of your essentials around the room, ignoring e’s small “baby, dont.” and g’s silence. 

you look back at them as you zip up your bag, “sorry, i didnt want to shit on your mood. i mean it, have fun on the trip, guys.” you repeat, much softer than before, trying a small smile, mostly for ethan. you’re too hurt to look at grayson long enough. e gets up from where he collapsed on the foot of his bed and pulls you into his arms for a strong hug, his arms coming to wrap around you tightly, his face buried in your hair. 

“i love you, please text me when you get to your place.” he mumbles into the crook of your neck. 

“i will, if you promise to keep me updated. love you.” you turn your head to press a kiss into his jaw. he sighs before releasing you. you dont say anything to gray, only wave at him slightly before leaving, his deep eyes following you out the door in regret. 

[comicteaparty]

November 9th-November 15th, 2019 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from November 9th, 2019 to November 15th, 2019.  The chat focused on the following question:

How do you deal with a lack of engagement from your audience, both emotionally and physically?

IzzyNinjaMaster

Oooo now that's a good question. If my online audience doesn't respond, I personally always show any new page updates to my family and friends and get feedback and comments from them. Really great for support. But sometimes their not available or I don't have anything new to show them. When this happens, I just look to myself for support. I know that doesn't really make sense or sounds kinda cheesy but it's what I do. I get myself pumped up and excited for what I can do next in the story and how awesome it will look all drawn out. And I go from there, I'll start drawing out ideas or writing out new chapters. So just be your own hype man, not just with your comics either but with everything. Great for self esteem.

Sorry went on kind of a rant right there

carcarchu

I prepare myself emotionally to not have any expectations. If you expect nothing and receive something you'll always be happy!

IzzyNinjaMaster

Lol true very true XD

Deo101

I'm not completely sure what this question means by physically, but I just kind of keep making art to move past it. Something that has helped me a TON is to make art that's just for me (like, that I don't post anywhere). I think that if everything is made to be shared, then we get a little too used to trying to find validation with engagement. With comics, specifically, I try to make none of my goals relate to engagement. I only have goals for myself and what i'm producing. If I'm hitting all of my goals, then I feel good about what I'm doing! No one engaging with it is just kind of like "okay!" Another smaller thing that helps me is getting my work done well before I upload it! for some reason just getting a bit of time distance between when something is done and when I post it I dont feel so bad if people don't engage.

Cronaj

I'm fairly lucky that I have a small following on one of the sites I post on, so while some weeks might be slow with feedback or engagement, I'm usually not completely devoid. I also have some very supportive family members who read my comic and often comment or text me after I update. As for what I do personally when I don't have a lot of engagement? I do a lot of self-reflecting, which is probably not the healthiest of practices. I question what I'm doing, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and how I could improve. I also try to understand other external factors at play, such as my readers' personal lives, jobs, school, holidays, that might have delayed them from engaging with my work. For example, I know that during November, as we get closer to Thanksgiving, there is going to be a huge drop in readership, because a lot of my younger readers will be preparing for school finals and visiting with family. By knowing this, it helps me cope a lot better. And if all else fails, I vent to my fiance or my little sister. It really does help to have someone to whine at for a bit

khkddn

If I were to get completely zero engagement on something I'd do what I'd always do, message people I know irl like "validate meeeeeeee"

In general I just take a step back from what I've posted and focus on something else. That way I remember webcomics isn't everything, and by the time I check up on things again there might be some sort of audience response.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I kept my work hidden for the first few years I was working on it (wanted to iron out any wrinkles before I was comfortable sharing) so in comparison, any engagement afterward - even a tiny amount - is pretty great! And even now, some updates get more traffic than others, for a lot of different reasons. Luck, timing, quality, etc. I always keep in mind that this project is - at its heart - for me and my own enjoyment/fulfillment. And if I’m pleased with where it’s going, that’s a win.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oof, that question really hit me where it hurts. Over the years I’ve lowered my expectations, because while I used to have an active audience in the ‘00s, I’ve rarely gotten any engagement on my comics in the ‘10s. It’s definitely made me feel depressed and like a ‘failure’ to put heart and soul into my comics and art and get 0 reaction online. I honestly don’t have any way I ‘deal’ with it. I make something, hoping to get some comments > I get no comments > I get depressed about it and feel like my work is garbage. Rinse and repeat several hundred times. I keep going because I just love to create, but it’s like an actor trying to put on a performance and no one shows up to the play. It has gotten better lately and I’ve started getting some engagement for the first time in many years, but I honestly don’t have a good answer for how I handle that emotional reaction to reader silence.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Also good to keep in mind that lots of people may read without commenting, and still enjoy it! I did a poll wondering who would be interested in doing guest art, and way more people responded than I expected. It opened my eyes! Sometimes you just can’t tell until you outright ask for feedback

keii4ii

There's definitely a risk to that, though. You ask and still get nothing. Or worse, you ask and get negativity. Asking is a worthy gamble, but it takes courage! Sometimes when we don't have enough courage, we gotta find it elsewhere first, before we can try that gamble...

I lost that gamble one too many times and need more Courage Fund before I can try again, lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

True true! It was a gamble I had no real expectations/assumptions about, so I didn’t have much room for disappointment. Even getting one person who says “This is cool!” is enough to fuel me for days. But I know that’s not how it is for everyone. Once you’ve been disappointed once, it can take a while to get the urge to try again. I can’t imagine getting negativity, though... I think THAT would wreck me.

keii4ii

Sometimes I don't even ask and someone just randomly drops negativity off at my doorstep... I need to remember that I have also had wonderfully positive responses, that it wasn't all negative. But it can be hard to remember that on bad days.

Deo101

Yeah, negative comments always seem to be the loudest ones... They can drown out dozens of good ones if they hit you right.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I did develop a pretty thick skin for negativity in art school, which was really fortunate because my comics garnered a lot of negative attention at first. Though thinking back on it, I was making very androgynous and gender non-conforming characters (even though I never stated anywhere that they were queer) in a time when the public attitude towards such things was far less kind than it is today. At the time it was draining to get so many trolls, but unless I was already having emotional difficulties in other areas of my life, I was able to let it roll off.(edited)

keii4ii

The weirdest thing with my negativity is 99% of them come from actual readers who mean well. So I have a hard time dismissing them like 'oh they're just haters.' It's not necessarily harder than dealing with blatant trolls, but it is an entirely different beast.

Deo101

Sometimes I go and reread positive comments when I'm down about things

Yeah I'm not sure that I've had any trolls tbh... Its all readers saying what they think

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Avid readers who give backhanded compliments and ‘well-meaning’ but very subjective critique can definitely be detrimental.

keii4ii

In Korea, I dunno if they're still a thing, but 1-2 decades ago there was this type of theft called slash theft. It's a type of pickpocketing, done on the street while walking by. They bump into you, briefly and lightly, but you don't think much of it because Seoul is a crowded city and you brush against other people all the time. But during that brief bump, they manage to slash open your purse and take all the contents. It's an amazing ninja level skill for sure. I know people who had their stuff stolen that way. Back to the Courage Fund analogy, sometimes a negative comment isn't just a normal theft of your Fund. The comment slashes your purse open, and now your bag can't contain Fund even if you put more and more into it.

It can take a long time and lots of support to sew your purse back.

Deo101

Idk if other places to slash theft, im sure they do, but im pretty sure historically its been a big thing. The term "cutpurse" comes to mind

keii4ii

(:o I didn't know that was a term! The more you know)

Deo101

(some book i read (wasn't great but you know) used the term a lot and i was like "ok wtf is this")

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That’s a very good analogy for it, and I definitely understand what you mean. I had to take a three year hiatus from one of my comics once after a IRL ‘friend’ ripped the comic apart and called me a terrible writer in less-than-kind words. I had already been going through some very bad things with my health and family and it hurt me far more than it should. It took some encouragement from some very dedicated readers to convince me to pick up the comic again.

Deo101

(so i associate it with pirates now)

That's really terrible lee... Om glad you picked it back uo though!!!

keii4ii

I can super relate to harsh comments hurting way more than they should, when you're already in a bad state. >_<

Deo101

And also it is a really good analogy keiiii

Yeah things just kinda get harder to deal with in general when you're more tired/upset in other areas

keii4ii

The most devastating feedback I've got would have done far less damage if I weren't in a fragile state at the time.

Deo101

Like you can't go be safe elsewhere if everything is a source of stress...

keii4ii

(For all we know those slashers in Korea could be pirates )

Deo101

:o

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Does Korea have pirates? If so, I’m moving to Korea.

(Sorry, we’ve probably gone way off topic for the discussion)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got antsy when someone made a small critique of my lettering (rightfully so, though - lettering is hard and I’m still learning) so a proper heart-stabbing, bad-faith critique might sideline me for a while. Gotta be prepared for that someday

Deo101

Its weird, it really seems to be mostly about how I'm doing elsewhere in life now that im thinking about it. Also being further along in the comic helps cause I've got years of support and "just keep chuggin" under my belt

Like the other day someone critiqued me randomly and called my characters stupid and i was like "dam ok, your comment getting deleted then" but a year or so ago a comment like "I'm sorry im a little confused..." Made me second guess everything for weeks

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Ohhh Maybe the obviously mean/troll comments are easier to deal with, than feeling you let down a reader who was genuinely trying to understand the story. I would definitely react similarly.

Deo101

Iunno, the big old critique was a normal reader who has left other comments he jusy kinda randomly did it. But yeah I think it can be easier to shrug off things that are CLEARLY antagonistic versus someone being harmlessly confused

Because confusion can mean I'm not being clear enough and need to change things and whatever. Its vague in a way that hits your anxiety

keii4ii

Yeah, when someone is obviously being a jerk, you know it's on them

omg... reader confusion has been the bane of my existence

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I dunno, man, art school just toughened me up to most negative comments. If one person out of five is confused, I don’t take it personally and just explain it to them to clear up confusion. If everyone’s confused I think ‘Hmm, maybe I should retcon in some dialogue to make it more clear’. I guess art school really teaches you to distance yourself from your work and be very objective about it. BUT as I said, I’m not immune when other bad things are going on and it becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Deo101

Though THEN you kinda get like "why am I being a target???" And its very frustrating, at the very least, and it does definitely still hurt... (Wrt trolls)

keii4ii

It's hard to tell who's confused and who isn't sometimes

Deo101

Yeah Lee im in art school right now, but for me its different when I make something to be critiqued versus a passion long term project

If I am asking for critique too, im braced for it in a way I'm mentally prepared for. Im not always braced to have someone be like "its pretty good buuut..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahh, I can understand that. I guess I’m able to view my passion projects the same way I did my school projects. It took time, that’s for sure. It’s a process of desensitisation, and was something I had to build up over years.

keii4ii

I'm disproportionately sensitive about reader misinterpretations/confusion. I'm 95% sure it's because one bad experience. Someone thought my main story was garbage, but they liked parts of it, so they told me to basically make a different story using those parts. After that, every time a reader didn't recognize the main story (I got a very prominent B plot, so it's kinda understandable that some people mistake it as the A), I got vivid flashbacks of that one bad experience. Every time someone said they liked [this character that The Other Person liked], I got flashbacks. Took me good 2-3 years to get over it.

Deo101

Its also a lil different when it's like.. i wont be changing these pages so unless it's a critique for moving forward its kinda pointless and i cant really apply it

Damn keiiii that's really rough

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, that sucks.

keii4ii

Yeah, it's hard to be motivated when the underlying message is "your first 100 pages are hot garbage, but you can still improve........ even if readers will give up long before they get to the decent 101st page!"

Deo101

RIGHT...

I don't want to have to preface "check out my comic!" Wirh "i promise it gets better..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

COUGH That’s exactly why I’m reduxing Eryl’s hot garbage beginning right now COUGH

Also because I’m a masochist and perfectionist.....

keii4ii

I think "it gets better" is fine when it's a reader reccing it. (I remember some of my friends reccing multi-season anime series to each other, going, "it gets better after season 1") But yeah, as the author we can't be the ones saying it.

Deo101

Mhm.

And I'm still hapoy with my old pages. I know I could do them better now but they're perfectly fine and they get the job done so... Idk its just hard when someone is like "wow two years ago you made a mistake, :/"

Like. Yeah, duh... I've spent like a thousand hours on pages theres gonna be some mistakes

keii4ii

It took me a long time to realize that Flaws =/= Problems

Deo101

I'm learning and getting better youre gonna have to bare with me here

Nutty (Court of Roses)

are you kidding i still get crit on stuff i made TEN years ago

Deo101

Mhm

keii4ii

omg

Deo101

Well its not a competition

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Same, Nutty

Nutty (Court of Roses)

True sorry ;;

Deo101

Ur name just changed colors keiiii

You: flaws =/= problems Your name: im ascending

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think...learning how to like not be bothered by negativity that much is a skill. Super freaked out one time when someone said they didn't know what's going on when reading HotV whoops

(turned out they just had to re-read a bit and it was just webcomics being webcomics)

Deo101

I had a group of readers say they were co fused and one person asked me to explain the last 2 chapters and i was like "holy shit am i being this unclear????"

Its stressful for sure

Nothjng wrong with being concerned with ut

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Keiiii has reached a new plane of existence. The blue is unrefutable proof

Deo101

Its something you're passionate about and you want to be as good as it can be

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah...

Deo101

So any critique, regardless of validity will be something you WANT to consider

Which is fine and theres nothing wronf with taking things to heart like that

But also if youre Happy with it that's all that matters

You gotta be your #1 fan kinda thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally super uh...yeah I am having a hard time dismissing criticism

even if it's in bad faith, haha.

keii4ii

The #1 fan thing sometimes reminds me of that scene from Lilo & Stitch

The scene of Lilo's rag doll. It's been years since I watched it, so memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think all the kids were showing off their dolls, and Lilo wanted to show off hers too

but the other kids didn't like her homemade-looking doll, and it made her sad, almost not like her doll for a moment

but she picks up the doll again afterward

There are days where I relate to that. I never not-love my story and my characters, but sometimes I feel like everyone else has a low opinion of it, you know?

and I'm like lonely Lilo hugging her rag doll in the sad corner

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I totally get that and...loving what you do first and foremost is really important. I don't think in a medium like webcomics you would be able to keep going

keii4ii

I'll always love my Doll but I do wish this little corner weren't so lonely, kinda thing

Deo101

I feel that keiiii

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

When the ‘critique’ is detrimental it does become a problem. Like that ‘friend’ I was talking about earlier who bashed Eryl to bits. He told me to ‘read some Stephen King’ to learn how to write. I was making a high fantasy story, not a horror story. The writing of a horror author is simply not applicable to building a good fantasy adventure story. That’s when I knew he was full of shit. But the damage had been done, and I lost all motivation for the project for years.

keii4ii

uuugh, I'm so sorry that it happened to you D:

Deo101

Also this story is one that i have dropped and picked up SO many times, and its wildly changed over and over, and so i worry a lot im not making it in its final form, i suppose. I worry i started it too young, and so critique of the older parts hits that anxiety

Wow lee that's terrible...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Gosh...

Deo101

Also you can't really compare Novel writing to comics imo. The structure can be compared but...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think HotV is like a project I've worked on since...2008? And it changed with me and I feel pretty confident that it's in its final stage.

keii4ii

and not every story needs to be a Stephen King story

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But yeah, you can really not compare writing for novels to writing for comics wth

nah

tbh it's weird (I like King personally) but his stories and also his writing do have flaws too so

what

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually do use novels as a source to study how to construct my comics. But! Studying the right genre is important. I’ve the feeling the only books that guy read were Stephen King, so that’s the only kind of story he was familiar with.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

God when I was still developing a picture I did got featured somewhere and someone criticised the way I did knees and linked to the picture of another artist going: Hey draw knees like that

Deo101

Every story will have flaws, its impossible to make one that is perfect. Well. Its impossible to make a story thats perfect for everyone. So alk you can do is try to make a story thats perfect for you!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Deo

keii4ii

^ THAT REMINDS ME

Deo101

Omg

keii4ii

(going back to the original question) With no response, or negative response, one thing that helps me is hearing other people gush about their beloved unpopular stories!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmmm

Deo101

!!!!!! Me too!!!!!!!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I am having this problem and went to ask on twitter what ppl loved about their projects

and that's really uplifting somehow

Deo101

I LOVE reading other comics and just seeing how much passion is in them its like a light

keii4ii

I need to remember that just because someone, or even a lot of someones, thinks a story is trash, doesn't make it the universal truth

Deo101

^^^

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I WILL GUSH ALL DAY BOUT MY BELOVED UNPOPULAR STORIES and once you open that damn I am unstoppable. You will regret it, trust me.

keii4ii

And people gushing about their unpopular favorites is an excellent way of reminding myself

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe

Deo101

I have been very lucky and have had a few incredibly kind people who i can remember fondly when i worry my story isnt reaching people. I Know it has touched a few lives, and if it makes even ONE person happier (even if thay person is me) then im doing my job and its worth all the time and effort.

That was kind of off topic i swear it connected in mt mind

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Absolutely

I feel it's connected

Deo101

Phew

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

bc hmm it's a way to deal with times when there is not much engagement?

Deo101

Aha! There we go yes :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do generally write very off-beat, unpredictable stories because I like reading / watching those kinds of things. A lot of my favourite movies bombed at the box office because they weren’t formulaic, which was what I loved about them.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Remind yourself that there is people who enjoy what you do and who are happier bc of it C:

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Also i have my characters on a shirt so i can just wear that and be like "fuck yeah. I have a shirt. It cant be a bad comic if I've got merch babeyyyy"

Which admittedly is a very odd way of dealing with anxiety

But like.... You should get your Characters on a shirt.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

dfhwioufheuf Deo that's cool tho

I made so many like...background designs and posters for HotV and some of those I WANT ON A SHIRT

Oh I think what also helps me is to find a friend and just talk about the comic?

Deo101

The place i use lets you get up to 6 items a month as a sample order and it's severely discounted my shirt was like $15

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should do that. I have designed some T-shirts but that wasn’t for personal stuff.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

omg

keii4ii

I'm actually in the (long) process of re-learning how to talk about my comic

Deo101

And yeah for sure having people i csn talk with/joke with about my comic helps soooo much

Like the fact that i know these 5 people will get my jokes like this

THAT helps a TON

These people actually are the reason I was confident enough to be able to start after having a bad friend drive me to almost drop the story for good

So having their support is probably one of the biggest things thst helps if no one else engages.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Okay, so on the original subject of ‘How to deal with no feedback’ I do talk about my stories a lot with my two best friends. They are my biggest fans and my sounding boards. They let me go on and on about plot threads in my comics and it’s one of the main reasons I keep going. Even when I get 0 reaction online, I still have two people who I know are reading the comic and think I should keep going.

Deo101

Or like, when my family is being homophobic about my work kinda thing. Friends are good for that...

Yessss lee having people you can talk with about it is SO good

keii4ii

ngl, I'm jelly of those of you who have go-to support friends who are genuinely into your story! That's something I hope to have some day, myself

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know whether to give a sad react for homophobic family or a happy react for supportive friends

Deo101

Happy react ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Still sorry about your homophobic family tho, but your friends sound awesome

Deo101

Yeah but :> I know I'm doing good work. Again those few people who i know my story has touched.. i know I'm doin good work.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@keii4ii Just know I’ve been an acid fan of your comics for over 10 years and honestly think they’re some of the best comics I’ve ever read

AVID

NOT ACID(edited)

keii4ii

Hey acid is important too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOD MY PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hiodcnioefwe acid

love this

I have one friend who has supported me since 2007 and I can always count on her freaking out about my comics Y_Y

so when I feel especially bad I turn to her

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My phone is old and the keyboard lags and autocorrects like AAAAARGH(edited)

Deo101

Its okay same here lee

Typo club babeyyyy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have to edit almost every comment I make THANKS A LOT PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

shakes fist at ur phone to be more kind

I can't type on phone at all so...

keii4ii

Yeah, swipe-typing is high level sorcery to me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As someone who’s normally a grammar freak it causes me great pain that my texting is a syntactical disaster.

Deo101

I've been doing swipe a bit lately so it doesn't hurt my hands to text (I Tex too much)

keii4ii

This actually makes me wonder

What are some good, safe(ish) ways to reach out to people who may be 1000% willing to become that Support Pillar for your comic?

Deo101

I just straight up start doing it

keii4ii

For all I know they exist. But.. Schrödinger's pillar

Deo101

And gague the reaction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As an antisocial gremlin who hides under a rock, I have no idea.

Pakky

never hurts to ask

keii4ii

@Pakky You would be surprised

Deo101

Start sharing art, see if theyre curious, get deeper if they're good with it, kinda thinf

I've got friends who like to see my art but don't really care about my comic, and you kinda just gotta take it case by case

Pakky

mm fair enough, i always try to be supportive of content creators mostly because i would hope for the same in return. theres a lot of bluntness in my industry so if you do well you get praise but if you do poorly, you very well know it :/

keii4ii

Me: "Thank you for supporting my humble comic!" (this wasn't even asking, just thanking) Reader: "Well, your comic isn't that good." Me: "?????????"

Deo101

Wh

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’ll be honest, on the rare occasion a reader starts trying to get really close to me, my dumb brain freaks out and I put some distance in because I have Issues for days.

Pakky

thats just rude on their part

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

what

holy fuck

keii4ii

I've Been Burned

omg, that question mark react is so appropriate

Deo101

I've chatted with some readers here or there but I don't know if id wanna use them as a support pillar

I kind of have trained myself to think readers as fickle.

If they get sick of my story, theyre allowed to leave

They dont owe me their time or energy and them being here is a gift

So I'll chat and stuff and answer questions but unless someone is my friend i will not lean on them for support.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly it’s happened that I’ve gad readers try to get really close or be my sounding board, and I think they were just trying to be enthusiastic and supportive but my stupid broken brain always panics and goes WARNING STALKER ALERT WARNING ABORT ABORT.

Deo101

Hey better safe than sorry

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp

Deo101

I'll chat but i wont give personal information and im not gonna like, get all into spoiling everything im planning lmao.

If someone asks me a question thats a spoiler ill answer it in private

But bringing raw ideas up for help... I need very specific people for thst.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The thing is they weren’t even being creepy or trying to get really personal. They were just very friendly and I apparently can’t handle that. ><

Deo101

The friend group i get writing helo on are all writers, and they all understand my vision. They don't write stories like mine, i dont write stories like theirs, and we all fully understand our suggestions may go unfollowed.(edited)

Also whoever put the eye emoji yeah if u have a question straight up dm me and I'll answer.

keii4ii

It's okay, your comfort is important. If you want to be more open, you can work on that. But not everyone has the same comfort level and that's okay too

Deo101

Yes! Its all about what you're comfortable with

But I've personally got a small curated group of writers/artists who all circulate our work between eachother

Which i know is very rare.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same, Deo...helped me a lot and I also know who to turn to when I'm down about engagement

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(also they are all perceived better than me so I believe them if they say sth nice)

Deo101

Omg

That group of people have done SO much for me honestly. Im thinking about them. I love my friends.

Also dont worry its nit all about me they also talk about and we help their work too i wanna be sure thats clesr

keii4ii

I figured it was all mutual! but now that you've said it's not all about you I'm suddenly imagining The Cult of Deo

That is 10000000% wonderful though

Deo101

I walk in and I'm like "y'all check out this new millennium lore" and they all take their hoods off and start scouring it for plotholes

keii4ii

Whilst sitting in a circle (a magic circle to be exact)

Deo101

Of course of course

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Damn, that’s awesome! I only see my friends every few months so I dump a lot of plot on them all at once, and it’s harder for them to give really detailed critique. XD

Deo101

Oh, I do this all online

Irl I sit down with my sister and we talk for 4 hours and Lose our voices LMAO

Cronaj

Good convos literally ALWAYS happen while I'm at work

keii4ii

I'm still here

Cronaj

Good, because it made me sad when you said you didn't have a support pillar

And that readers are fickle (which can be true)

But I don't think you know how much I love your comic

keii4ii

I'm seriously honored! I still fear that maybe people are not seeing the story I'm trying to tell, and are following the comic for some other reasons (which is valid, just not what I'm trying to achieve). But hey, I'll never find out if I don't keep going, right?

kayotics

keiiii, i love your comic and i think it's beautiful in many ways, not just the art

but also, on the topic of lack of engagement... I'm pretty fortunate in that my spouse is always really supportive of my comic, so when I need a little pep talk I can always ask them

sssfrs

I’m trying to collect as much negative feedback as I can so that I’ll know my comics strengths and weaknesses and I’ll be prepared to take criticism as it comes in the future. It is pretty frustrating having no response or fanbase right now but I started my comic pretty recently and theres still time for growth

Glowbat (Aloe)

when you're collecting feedback be mindful that there's a difference between constructive criticism and people being unhelpful and simply telling you they don't like your work

the latter wont do anything but bruise your self confidence(edited)

keii4ii

Yeah, and sometimes even well-meaning critiques can miss the point too, like if it comes from someone who thinks your work should be X, when it is intended to be Y. Easy example: My previous comic was a depressing drama centering around a terminally ill young woman and her doctor, and once someone told me I "needed more fight scenes." It wasn't even an action comic! In that case, the lack of fight scenes was not a weakness. It simply meant the comic wasn't for that person.

DanitheCarutor

On the topic of lack of engagement. My answer is really boring, but I just keep working on my comic regardless of how much/little engagement it gets. I never intended or expected to have an audience to begin with since my comic has sooo many problematic elements in it, whenever I get feedback it's super nice! Always a surprise, like seeing the machine light up when winning $500 on the penny slots! (In a way, getting engagement is kinda like gambling. You post a page and you may or may not win some comments in return... Not equating real people to items to win, of course!) Admittedly, if there is a page I feel would cause reaction but I get nothing, it is a little sad. It's not the end of the world, though! I got a story to tell, and as long as I can still draw I'm content.

kayotics

i relate to that a lot, Dani. I also never intended to make the comic for anyone but me, so the fact that anyone reads it is really exciting to me.

Cronaj

@keii4ii (Potentially off-topic, but is there somewhere to read your other comic(s)? Or are they all in Korean?)

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics Every so often I look at my reader base and think "Man, there are people into this kind of stuff??" It's an almost surreal feeling.

kayotics

Yeah I get it! I wouldn’t say mines too out there but there’s so many other fantasy dnd inspired comics out there that they could read that I’m surprised they even glance at mine.

AntiBunny

How do I deal with it? Usually experience a series of emotions such as "how hard is it to leave one little comment you losers?" Then "Who am I kidding, no one is reading this, I'm creating into a void," and finally pry a few comments from people who know me personally, reassure myself that I create out of a compulsion to tell my stories even if no one's reading, and start the process all over for next week. Not exactly a healthy method I admit.

keii4ii

@kayotics There is only one Toivo out there

@Cronaj aaaa the previous one was in English. But I would not recommend it It's unfinished (though it does have more than 600 pages IIRC) and honestly really rough.

kayotics

@keii4ii true....... one weird wizard boy

Cronaj

Dang... I LOVE medical stories. I'm seriously addicted to them. @keii4ii

keii4ii

I enjoy them too and I appreciate your interest!

Cronaj

scours the internet for the lost records

keii4ii

The site layout is also broken so yeah...

I guess another thing I do is try to comment more on other people's comics, to rec them publicly, etc. Being the change I want. I don't do this as often as I want, but I think/hope even the little bit I do counts.

mathtans

Heh, I'm basically with Cap'n Lee in terms of a cycle. I think part of my issue is I won a fanfic competition in 2004, and it's kind of been downhill since. I've posted regularly to a serial site for over 4 years, accumulating 300 posts, and last month it had 100 total views... there's been 2 comments since March.

On the actual comic side though (not serial) I've relaunched it more than once, and tried to flag the more recent index as a starting point. And yeah, just hold on to the few good comments, like the guy who applauds me for continuing to post even though I only have 10 people following on Tapas.

These days, of course, I'm too darn BUSY to really think much about the lack of engagement. So one solution might be to get married and have a kid. Then you're just happy when you manage to get content out, never mind if anyone remarks on it.(edited)

Mharz

Popping here just to answer the question becos it's interesting. The lack of engagement was a bane in my existence and honestly one of the factors why I had to see a psychiatrist. My doctor told me I have self-esteem issues which leads me to seek validation from strangers. This is the first thing I work on. I have to be confident enough to not break even if nobody likes my stuffs. Which means I have to love myself first. (People prolly see me as vain at this point) Second thing I do is keep a mentality of "nobody has to care. They have things going on as well" which helps me appreciate the small percentage of people who actually took the time to engage, talk, and be friends with me. I also try to put a positive spin on it. "Nobody cares therefore I can make as much noise on my social media as I want and no one will bother criticizing becos nobody cares." If people unfollow, it's on them. It just means they're not really a fan of my work and I shouldn't waste my time. And if my mental illness is too much, then I will disconnect from the online world a bit. Treat myself. Do something fun like gaming and baking and hang out with friends IRL if possible.

Mharz

I sometimes think it's karma on my end becos I'm so vain, I rarely get interested in anything so I'm not really a fan of many stuffs so that is something I accepted as well.

AntiBunny

Perhaps being a webcomic author sort of goes hand in hand with needing validation.

MJ Massey

OH BOY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A LACK OF ENGAGEMENT?!

over the past week, I got 24 users. Granted, I didn't update, so that's probably why

So this is a four month overview of my website traffic. I hit a high of 184 unique users in August, and after that it plummeted to just barely over 100. And I hadn't really done anything different

I have never really gained a lot of traction with my comics. I'll admit that Black Ball definitely has more appeal than my last comic, so I have slowly been building an audience with it, but it's still been very slow. Sometimes it feels like I have to adhere to some extra set of rules while others can just throw up their comic on Tapas and have instant success. Of course, that's not the case at all

the key is to remember "why am I doing this? isn't it because I love making comics?!"

and to keep on pushing, keep up that hustle, and enjoy the ride. Make great content and it will be rewarding in and of itself

carcarchu

I'm not really sure it's as simple as simply throwing something up on tapas and getting instant success. there's a lot of work that goes behind every comic even if you don't perceive it

MJ Massey

well yes of course, I'm just saying sometimes it SEEMS like that

I'm a marketing professional, so I know there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres, i think, a lot of factors in certain comics gaining traction faster than others that are mostly out of a creator's control. on mirror sites like webtoons or tapas you have to factor that more attention is given to certain genres and art styles over other because of what that crowd likes. if they're into slice of life romances in anime-esque styles then someone who writes fantasy mysteries in a more western influenced style may not get as much love as they deserve

its tough out there

ive been fairly fortunate to gain a steady bit of followers on tapas but on webtoons my reader engagement and subs are significantly lower

Glowbat (Aloe)

i chalk it up to the type of crowd

MJ Massey

I've been analyzing my audience and my work and have a hypothesis that my work just works better in bulk format. I think 2020 will be a year of transitioning into bulk distro instead of the page at a time format

and see if that helps. As well as some new marketing techniques and getting back into the con circuit

Kabocha

A lack of engagement... This is definitely... a topic. I feel like, sure, one's general marketability in any given platform will definitely make it easier or harder to attract an audience, but on the other hand? It's also worth making sure you kinda figure out what you want out of webcomics. Some people have been working on their projects (or existing within a fandom) for years - decades, even at this point, which can be a big boost to initial readership on a new project! Other people just have the advantage of being able to sit down and advertise, or having someone do that for them. Personally, though. I went in not expecting to get an audience, and for a long time, actively avoided even having a comment section on my site. I just enjoy making comics and creating things - and if it happens to make someone happy, that's awesome. But comics and art aren't the only thing I do in my life that make me happy, and I've found engaging other people directly about things like comic craft and resources to be about 100x more fulfilling than posting comics themselves. (And it is fun, sometimes, to gush about my OCs and how dumb they can be.) But how do I cope with it? Eh, it's honestly not a big deal to me. It feels less stressful in some regards, because the dayjob can get hella hectic, and trying to balance "OH GOD COMICS" with "OH GOD THE SERVERS NEED PATCHED ALL NIGHT TONIGHT" can be.... interesting.

(But oh god, I will admit, having someone come up to me and say, "I read your thing or used your photoshop/csp brushes" can be incredibly motivating. But other days, I have to be my own motivation, so...)

kayotics

Sometimes it’s helpful to keep a list of really nice comments or to write down memories of when someone told you they like your work. This can take a while to gather but if someone says something nice about your work, keeping it somewhere safe for a day you’re feeling bad can help boost that morale

It also helps me sometimes to think about how there’s a TON of people who never comment on things, but they’re probably regularly reading.

MJ Massey

Totally! I was building a landing page for my email subscription, and I was able to go back and find old reviews from my last comic, and it really got me pumped

Kabocha

Yeah! When I worked in a call center, the metrics on calls in -> surveys was something like... At best, you get 10% of your callers leaving surveys. And it's usually because you left an impression (good or bad). Usually the reality was at best, you'd hear back from about 2% of your userbase unless you gave them an incentive them to say something.

Mharz

re tapas and other platforms: I have to agree that certain genres really are more appealing there. I have two comics with different genres that I regularly update and the numbers are literally like night and day. It's a sad truth.

Mharz

I also love getting notifs on tapas when a person is binging my comics and liking every update. It means I got them hooked. :'3(edited)

nice reminder that there ARE people who like my comics.

Kabocha

Well yeah - even in traditional publishing, some genres generally get larger readerships than others (and higher advances) because they're more easily marketed. There's a reason why some publishers will categorize what's basically a fantasy story with romance subplots as a "romance" overall for a relatively unknown author (it's because they're more likely to attract more readers because romance is HUGE)

MJ Massey

true that

and you have to find where you audience lives as well

Kabocha

Yeah... I have some readers who only engage when they come back to catch up, which can be every 6weeks or more. Some only read when a chapter is done being posted, which is about every six months.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Re: Tapas. Yeah, Tapas especially has very particular styles and genres it likes (anime style + romance, especially BL). I posted Children of Shadow there for six months and had 20 total subs before taking it down. A while later I tried posting it on Webtoons and got 60 subs in one week. That level of engagement slowed down considerably almost immediately though, because the prologue episode is in colour and the main series is greyscale - and I discovered the hard way that the majority of Webtoons’ users do not like greyscale (I even got rating-bombed over it). My second comic is doing much better on Webtoons since it’s in digital colour rather than pencil like Children of Shadow. Each platform has its specific interests and it can be a struggle to get noticed if you’re not making something that falls into its normal styles and genres.

Glowbat (Aloe)

both tapas and webtoons really dont push their scifi comics hardly at all. Tapas' top scifi section is littered with discontinued stories (at least theyve abandoned tapas at any rate idk if theyre for sure no longer continued) which means that because i update weekly and sorta fall into a semi-anime inspired style i get some decent traffic from the small demographic who go hunting for a scifi comic

RebelVampire

That's not that surprising, tbh. Even in the realm of novels sci-fi is more of a hunt for where the audience is sometimes.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Scifi is an under-appreciated genre, imo. Unless you’re Star Wars, Star Trek or a Marvel comic, it seems like people don’t talk much about scifi.

It might help boost views if you rework your genre labels on places like Webtoons. Like, have Adventure or Drama as your main genre tag and Scifi as your secondary genre.

Glowbat (Aloe)

actually ever since avas demon went on webtoons ive been getting about 10-15 subs a week there

for a while i had listed aloe as drama first but the results werent fantastic as i think that genre has been flooded over there

keii4ii

I think sci-fi has some very prominent associations with the genre that don't apply to every sci-fi story -- e.g. the first thing a lot of people immediately think of is spaceship explody battles. So if someone sees sci-fi and they're not into spaceship explody battles, they won't read.

Glowbat (Aloe)

i may try adventure though if scifi doesnt pan out

keii4ii

Alternatively, if someone sees sci-fi and they ARE into that... and only that... they will leave once they find out the comic is not about that

Glowbat (Aloe)

thats also a good point

keii4ii

I've had similar difficulties even though fantasy is more widely accepted these days as a more varied mega-genre

People expect X, comic contains only a sprinkling of X and is about Y instead.

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my personal case, i've alienated potential readers i feel sometimes simply by having the cast be primarily lgtbq with an agender lead. but i dont regret that and im happy to have it deter people who arent down for that

RebelVampire

That is definitely true about sci-fi. Film has really biased people as to what fits sci-fi, where in reality sci-fi is a really wide genre. So a lot of stuff never gets a chance cause it confuses people.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Yooooo i feel that, glowbat. On one hand, I want ppl to know that my comic is a safe read for LGBT, but at the same time I know that announcing it as such will deter others on principle.

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

I feel the same way. The whole cast of Wayfinders is some form of lgbt+, but we don't actually adress it much, because it's an adventure story moreso than a romance. So it's like.... how do we tell the readers it ain't straight

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Fantasy does seem to get drowned by numbers. Eryl gets about 5 new subs per update and Children of Shadow only gets 1-2, and I think they’re just getting lost in the crowd.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Two of my characters jokingly told each other their identity through bard puns, plus I keep pushing for gay ships within the story, so I'm pretty overt with my readers about it ahaha.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@The Q - working on WAYFINDERS I’m having some difficulty with that dilemma, too. Both my comics feature large LGBTQ+ casts but romance isn’t the focus of either. It often feels like there’s no good way to bring it up naturally until the romance threads surface very far into the story, and I’m always worried about homophobes lashing out when they eventually discover the comic is G A Y

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my descriptions i describe the comic as a lgbtq+ themed scifi flat out

keii4ii

Early in HoK, one character embarks on a journey for a personal reason, and the MC tags along. I've semi-recently heard from an American friend that she didn't really get the character's reason. He wanted to take a younger family member away from a bad living situation, but to the friend, the situation didn't seem so bad. After some talking, we realized it was a cultural thing. The situation was very obviously bad to Koreans, but it didn't/doesn't seem like a far departure from the range of normal life in the US, for cultural/societal reasons. I suspect that was a big part of the reason why people kept pegging my comic as a "fun adventure romp" despite the lack of fun adventures (it has elements of adventure, but is not that as a whole). The reason for the journey seemed superficial, like the author (me) just needed an excuse to start the Fun Adventure-Filled Journey. Whereas Korean readers, back when I was publishing it in Korean, immediately understood it was an intensely personal, difficult task that the shy boy decided to accept for the sake of love.

And yeah, LGBTQ+ as a tag/ part of the description seems like a good option to me too!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But then I’m also anxious that LGBT folks will think that’s false advertising because the characters’ labels aren’t mentioned until really far into the story (and it’s no where near that point yet). Aaaagh maybe I just overthink everything.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its really interesting to hear the difference in reception HoK gets

keii4ii

Yeah and the setting itself apparently feels different, too! To Koreans, it evokes secondhand nostalgia. But some non-Koreans have told me it feels fantastical and Ripe For Adventures

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel you Lee- almost none of my chars have mentioned or done anything to illustrate their identities yet

keii4ii

(I also feel the need to mention, there have been non-Korean readers who got what HoK was about. Those readers mean so much to me! But I don't know if they understood that particular detail about Danbi's motivation for the journey early on.)

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

(I'm gonna put so much lbgt+ love in the background of the story everytime they get to a new city ahahahaha >:) )

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To me, @keii4ii HoK is very reminiscent of Studio Ghibli films because I get similar whimsical vibes. But Studio Ghibli has always been more about emotional journeys so after a couple chapters I was like ‘Ah, yes, I think this comic is about the characters’ emotional growth’(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

(muhahhaa, also just let Sallly flirt with all the ladies in the BG)

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss flirt with ladies

MJ Massey

I'm worried that my comic is not "gay enough" to warrant the LGBT+ label. The character's sexualities have very little to do with the actual story, and one character is actively hiding their identity

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

SAME

keii4ii

I'm aro/ace/agender and I don't really feel "LGBTQ+ enough" so I can't really use the LGBTQ+ label for my own comic, even though I know the label isn't exclusively for ownvoices stories.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I admit I’m not sure I ‘got’ Danbi’s motivations on a cultural level, but I felt like the tone being presented in that scene made it pretty clear she was in a bad situation?(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

but... we have calculated a total of 1 straight character in our whole comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

‘She’ as in the niece, not Danbi. XD(edited)

MJ Massey

that's what it seemed like to me too, or at least that by leaving their village they were going to a better situation

Glowbat (Aloe)

first of all- high fives keii because agender solidarity and second of all if you have chars who identify as either not straight or not cis or both rolled into one then its gay enough to have the lgbtq label

to heck with gate keepers

there are plenty of queer peeps who just want to read stories that casually include people like themselves

but if you dont feel its needed you dont have to either

MJ Massey

I guess there is a certain expectation when you say "I make an LGBTQ+ comic" of how that comic will be, and I don't want to disappoint people or set them up to expect something different

I just figure that all kinds of people exist in the world, so I should include as many different kinds of people as I can in my work

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probs should just put LGBTQ+ labels in the descriptions and be like ‘this is genre fiction but almost everyone’s queer even though you can’t tell yet’. XD

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I use the term "LGBT-friendly" to indicate that they're present, but might not be the full focus

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I write genre stories because I’m not that into romance-centric stories myself. I want queer heroes in the kinds of stories I like to read without the entire focus being on their sordid love-lives. I just want to read about the hero who slayed a dragon to rescue his prince instead of his princess, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

lol im in a similar position where i'd rather see the hero befriend the dragon

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have plenty of that in my comics, too!

There’s some nice dragons and some very-not-nice ones. XD

Glowbat (Aloe)

(im insufferable in d&d i was a bard who tried to be friends with everything)

eryl is on my lisssst <3

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

This is why I love bards

Glowbat (Aloe)

hehe

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm always happy when people mark their stuff as LGBTQ+ if characters are present tbh Y_Y

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Also agreed with everything said above

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, now Imma definitely have to add the LGBTQ+ labels to my comics next time I do website maintenance.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yay!

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Aw ye aw ye

Join the brigade

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yiss

I feel a bit bad bc I rarely read sth that's not clearly marked as LGBTQ+ or where I know the authors are part of the community whoops

But it's mostly the fact that I consumed hetero-focused media my whole life and now I can...choose.....

the dream

Glowbat (Aloe)

heck yes

im way more drawn to stories that are marked lgbtq+

keii4ii

Don't feel bad, because seriously, even if you exclusively read LGBTQ+ marked stories? There ain't enough time in this life to read every good story that fits that bill.

There are too many good stories out there and we do need to choose.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its just nicer because then i can enjoy the story without having to worry that in the middle of it im going to get a rude wake up call from an off colour joke or somethin at my expense

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true

keii4ii

Sometimes we miss out on stuff that we may have fallen in love with, but that's the name of the game, the game of not having enough time

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Webcomics feel a lot safer than other media in that regard atm

Jupp especially if you're also working on your own stories

Glowbat (Aloe)

it sucks thinking theres a bunch of stories out there that im sure id love if only i had the time or mental fortitude to sift through a bunch of others.

keii4ii

(OTL that reminds me... there is one instance of trope use in an early chapter of HoK that falls into that 'off color joke' category. I don't have any excuses for it, just 'I just thoughtlessly parroted a trope that I saw elsewhere.' I regret it and hope to figure out an elegant way to rewrite that one scene.)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i dont have the energy to be burned so often by stories that seem good and then hit me with random transphobic bs or using slurs as jokes

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, as someone who grew up in a time when no one positively portrayed queer folks in mainstream stories (and there was no internet and living out in the boonies made it impossible to discover underground cultures) I love that now I can seek out tonnes of LGBTQ stories and drown myself in the gay every day.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp ;;

Glowbat (Aloe)

man if i could give ten year old me printed copy of paranatural and turn to the pages with rj's identity being explained? that kid would have grown up way happier

living in small towns aint great for queer peeps

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Nope it’s not. I was badly repressed until honestly only 3 years ago when I suddenly asked myself why I loved reading about and writing so many gay characters. And then suddenly my whole life made sense.

Glowbat (Aloe)

im so happy for you<3

Glowbat (Aloe)

its a heck of a thing thinking back on things and realizing why you do certain things

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly there were giant clues from when I was still a little kid and I can’t believe it took me so long. XD But I’m digressing from the comic talk, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

haha i understand what you mean

i think its why its so important for comics to be inclusive

spare some poor kids the heart ache and confusion

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes! The internet has created such a boom for indie comics and that huge variety of voices has been so so important.

Glowbat (Aloe)

as much as comics are an art, they're extremely powerful as a vehicle for teaching and generally conveying ideas

FeatherNotes

Can i just say how happy i am that y'all are making LGBTQ+ comics that aren't just romance tho? I'm pretty indifferent and on the ace spectrum for sure, so its so refreshing that we can have a queer cast just being cool and not hurt by identities. I wish i had that as a kid

Also no shade on romance but there's def a lot and lgbtq+ isn't just for that genre

So yes yall are 'gay enough' lol

Glowbat (Aloe)

i agree! queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Admittedly, I use my comics as a vehicle to work through my own issues, so there are scenes planned where the characters have to deal with transphobia or homophobia. But I will always counterbalance that with other scenes that validate the characters’ identities.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmhm my story also deals with transphobia and dysphoria bc I'm working through own issues. I don't think that's a bad thing though

generally I think it's pretty ok if the story is not a constant misery train

(even those can be written well, but they are usually not my cup of tea)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think its perfectly acceptable to use comics as a vehicle for that lee

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahh tbh

MJ Massey

there's no wrong reason to make comics/create a thing

Glowbat (Aloe)

youre a queer creator and you're working with what you know so why not

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know focusing on queer suffering has been criticised a lot but I feel there's more nuance to it. Especially if it's a LGBTQ+ person writing about it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I’m a miserable emo and I write miserable emo stories, but I try to inject some hope into it, because I think that the majority of humans are good and/or want to be good.

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres this comic called dropout that does a wonderful job exploring the grittier truths of being queer

its a fairly short read but its super good

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmm, I may look that up

Glowbat (Aloe)

i can dm you the link! no pressure to read it tho

twothirty

gosh, i just want to chime in because i really relate to earlier comments around labelling comics. I'm bi, but i don't wear it on my sleeve, and my own comic has like...1 straight character. I feel like there is an expectation for comics labelled as lgbtq+ and i don't want to disappoint people who are really looking for that content to be directly addressed.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Tbh I feel many people are just happy, if there's queer characters doing cool stuff (at least that's how it's for me).

Glowbat (Aloe)

i label my own comic as lgbtq+ and the plot hardly hinges on that being the central theme

just a bunch a gay scientists and robots in space

...i swear its way more interesting that that lol

man i wish i could get more of my comic out faster so i didnt have to worry about spoiling basic things geeze

twothirty

haha im into it! Ahh, well probably a big part of it is my own insecurities, but what are webcomics for if not... for figuring out your own crap (edited)

keii4ii

I feel that X'D

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp...I get the anxiety tho

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Mess of anxiety solidarity.

Glowbat (Aloe)

oof yeah

also hey while we're at it with the queer biz in here:

aro/ace/bi peeps are all gay enough full stop

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As a demi-bi dude I fully endorse that all labels are valid.

And that gatekeeping sucks and helps no one

Glowbat (Aloe)

yeah anyone who makes you feel like you dont belong under the lgbtq+ umbrella isnt doin right by you

and your comics should be allowed to be considered as queer as you want them to be

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also all gender identities are valid and don’t hinge on having a physical transition. You’re valid as trans whether you change your body or not.

Glowbat (Aloe)

^^^

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

YESS

Glowbat (Aloe)

all our experiences are valid and the comics we make because of those experience are beautiful

Deo101

Oh man I missed a huge convo, but I love y'all and it's wonderful seeing so many kinds of comics out there and seeing people make their own content

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yo, nothing "gross" about romance, and the reason people flock to it is because romance with same-gender couples and/or trans people has been treated as "deviant disorder that needs to be cured and cleaned up, or at least kept far away from polite society" for so long (and still is, in many places)

All queer stories are valid, queer characters don't need to be in a romantic storyline to count, but please let's discuss that without echoing homophobic rhetoric about queer romance being "gross", yeah?(edited)

MJ Massey

I don't think it was meant gross as in queer romance itself being gross, but more in the finding a general distaste for romance tropes and romance as a genre

but I agree, that we should be careful about implying those sorts of things with our work

keii4ii

Romance as a genre is valid too; the consensus was just that there's a lot of it, and other genres are valid too. That every genre is valid

MJ Massey

true, but people might just feel strong distaste for certain genres from a personal point of preference

it's part of what makes the fabric of human existence so fascinating, we all have different opinions, likes, dislikes, viewpoints...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I love romance stories but the thing that disheartens me is that the queer stories people take most serious are romances

keii4ii

The pigeonholing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Can you elaborate on that Keiiii?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Those are the stories that get repressed and erased the most, is the thing, so it takes more effort to get them produced and shared, and that makes people extra-happy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think anyone said romance stories were gross?

Just that it’s not necessarily our jam.

keii4ii

Oh, I meant that's what people are doing when people start exclusively associating a very diverse experience/ group of people with ONE thing, to a point where the people in that group are not allowed to be anything other than That One Thing

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I was reacting to "queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions"

keii4ii

and it's a really unfair, inaccurate restriction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahhhh

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH okay, thank you for elaborating, Keiiii. I couldn't really associate anything with the term at first!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Misconceptions are the reason queer people have been excluded from most romance for so long

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think in that case it was more about people's misconception of queer identities being inherintly sexual and/or romantic though?

and not about queer romance being gross

DanitheCarutor

Huh, I thought 'gross' in that context was more akin to 'outlandish' or 'exaggerated', but I could be misunderstanding.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think it means more that a lot of people fetishise queer relationships when there’s only representation in romance.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Associating "queer people being sexual and/or romantic" with "gross" is still hella dicey

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

the misconception is what's gross, not the queer people or their romance?

Glowbat (Aloe)

re: gross misconceptions :Oh! i think i said that Erin- i don't think i did a great job of explaining my thoughts on that. on sites like tapas and webtoons its fairly common for gay couples to be exploited for an audience thats less interested in representation than fetishization(edited)

MJ Massey

yes I think there was some lamenting that it could be difficult to show queer characters without an element of romance to make their identities apparent?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think they meant gross as in disgusting but gross as in ‘far off the mark’

MJ Massey

because some people wanted to have queer characters but not focus on a romantic plot

@Glowbat (Aloe) I know what you are talking about I think

Deo101

Yeah, though I'd like to add on as someone who is writing LGBT romance, I get lumped in with fetishization content a lot and that is very frustrating for me, too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And it does take a lot of digging to find respectful representation in romance instead of stories made by and for straight people that use bad stereotypes to fetishise queer relationships.

Not that all romance by and for straight people does this.

But it’s a problem in the genre

Deo101

I work very hard to portray healthy loving relationships and people lump me in to their hatred of romance in general or categorize my work as bl or discount it for having that. It gets fetishized or dismissed an awful lot and that's very frustrating for me to see happening

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you want to talk specifically about something you feel is stereotypical or fetishizing, I wouldn't object to that, it's the broad swipes at all romance that become a problem

Glowbat (Aloe)

agreed

queer romance is very important to represent

i dont think anyone here would imply otherwise

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And, hey, sometimes queer writers/readers also enjoy a romance that's unrealistic or trashy or silly or melodramatic, I don't want to dismiss "all romance that wouldn't represent a healthy and respectful relationship IRL" either

Glowbat (Aloe)

very true

Deo101

Yeah, not what I was trying to say.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Idk if anyone was saying that tbh

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think our initial conversation though boiled down to that we were happy to see stories with queer people being allowed to just be people doing things that didnt focus on romance

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally very glad that we are getting a wider variety of queer romance now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

What we were discussing earlier is more that it’s important to portray queer protagonists in all kinds of genres, instead of only romance. Which doesn’t mean romance isn’t also a valid genre.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Sure, and part of my discomfort is that queer characters have already been "allowed" to do non-romantic things in mainstream media for a long time -- it's being "allowed" to have an explicit romance that's new and different

keii4ii

^ I don't know about that. It probably depends on where you are, both IRL and part of the internet?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I never saw a queer character that wasn’t either tragic, a deviant, or the butt of a joke in media until the late ‘O0s(edited)

MJ Massey

both views are valid--it's good to both want explicit queer romance and to also just want to see queer people doing a wide range of things

DanitheCarutor

@Glowbat (Aloe) Yeah, to parrot what you said. I just chalked the convo up to seeing queer characters expand into different genres, and being happy that queer fiction is starting to be known for more than just romance.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There was no positive representation in any genre in the media I had access to for most of my life(edited)

Deo101

It helps with the normalization of stories like that, but I also think it makes homophobes be "more comfortable" with gay stories sometimes in a way that bothers me

I have had someone say that my story is the only bl they can stand so I'm sensitive about this subject though

Cause there's a lot to unpack there

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

The "if there has to be a queer romance, at least make it awful and tragic" trope was absolutely true in my area too

yikes, I can see being sensitive about that

Deo101

Like me writing something that primarily isn't romance and just has a romance b plot is making homophobes and fetishizing people read my work and that's frustrating for me in a way I can't articulate. I'm very happy within the LGBT+ community to have these works be made but among the straight people I know it's uncomfortable when they start saying things like "oh yay finally some gay stuff that isn't romance" kind of thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that makes sense

Deo101

From other gay people I get it, it makes sense and I'm the same way! Especially with the oversaturation of bl

DanitheCarutor

@Deo101 Gah I got a comment like that before, it was a weird situation because not only was it unnecessary but... TGtaHR isn't even a romance...

Thinking about it, that's actually kinda worrying.

Deo101

But it's important to remember that the LGBT+ community is a bubble and though it's safe to explore all sorts of stories here, it's not safe outside of our bubble

Or, not necessarily safe

Like a homophobe reading a gay story with an unhealthy dynamic could just bolster their bad opinions about gay people even if it's exploring it in a healthy way

I have a hard time explaining what I'm thinking and I really hope this all makes sense

keii4ii

I get you

Glowbat (Aloe)

(i get what youre saying deo <3 )

Deo101

And its not something we can really change but I think it's important to remember with regards to society at large and how our stories are percieved outside the community

Phew lol

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I get what you're saying, although in that case, the homophobe was probably going to think that no matter what, and if it wasn't the story they'd find some other "evidence"

Deo101

Yeah absolutely

And I think it's important to remember that when talking about exploring stories that have unhealthy Dynamics and things other than romance and whatnot. I don't want those things to become safe for cishets to exploit basically

Like "oh great now I don't need to write them kissing so I can access BOTH the LGBT and everyone else!"

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Ah, you mean like "the author says they're gay, so that counts as representation and LGBT people should buy this, even though there's never anything explicitly gay in the story"

right?

Deo101

Yeah

Deo101

Which again within the community I get and it's important to explore things like that for sure

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the important difference is, writers within the community are going to do something to indicate the queer identity, even when it's not "having an on-screen romance"

And that's something that, say, your average JKR doesn't bother doing

Deo101

Again I have a hard time explaining myself and I might be tripping over my words a bit here

Yeah that's true as well

I trust LGBT people to be navigating stories with an inherent nuance

For the most part

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

That, or (I think people were talking about this upthread) we don't advertise a story as "look at all this representation!" while the characters' identities haven't come up in the comic yet

Deo101

Yeah I know I didn't say my story was LGBT til I had the married couple kiss cause I was worried people would think I was gaybaiting

I know I'm not but it feels wrong to me like I'm trying to rally up readers kinda thing...

But also if you know you're planning to do it I feel like you can say it'll be there

I just have anxiety LOL

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

No, I get you. Even if it's definitely going to happen in the future of the comic, it'll disappoint readers if you rally them up for something that isn't there yet

That would happen with anything, not just queer identities

Deo101

Yeah I also don't tag my pages or whatever for disability if a character isn't disabled on the page

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Like if it was "read my comic for cool space battles!" when you had only posted the 5 pages of setup with characters having a chill talk in a field

sssfrs

I think what bothers me about lbgtq focused romance stories is that they’re often centered on how ~scandalous~ the relationship is and how the characters have to overcome personal biases or homophobia/transphobia as the central struggle

Deo101

I don't want the wrong audience. I mean I also could probably slap bl on my cover and I feel like I'd get a lot more readers but they're not the readers I want

sssfrs

Or at least I dont enjoy reading stories like that

Deo101

Yeah that frustrates me too, personally

But some people like seeing that overcoming idk

sssfrs

My comic has at least 2 visible prominent gay relationships but its not about romance at all

I guess thats personal preference(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think a lot of the time you also know what intentions the person behind telling a story like that has? I have a straight aquaintaince writing BL and it's totally clear that she thinks the whole ordeal is kinda cute and endearing when it's pretty...harsh for actual queer people

Deo101

Mines got 5 and it is about romance cause I absolutely love romance and I love love, but I am overly frustrated with romance as a genre. Which is why I write my own

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think that goes back to the "talk about a specific trope that bothers you, don't treat it like the whole genre" thing I was saying

Deo101

Yeah I think there's a lot of nuance to it that cishet people largely don't have

sssfrs

I feel like it makes the romance into a statement about how society is bad and its not interesting or groundbreaking to represent that bigotry in your media without adding something new

Deo101

I'm frustrated with the often unhealthy Dynamics and the frequency with which homophobia and transphobia are shown.

I live in a homophobic household I don't want it in my romance cause it hurts to see

But, I don't think it's bad to tackle those issues it's just hard for me personally

sssfrs

I like pairing up side characters but only 2 pairs are going to have an Arc. so far....

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I...feel for many cishet authors it's also a good excuse to not have the characters get together right away without actually thinking about why they would not for other reasons (like personality based). So there's a lot of "I'm not gay!!!" type of thing

Also totally understandable Deo :C

Deo101

Yeah absolutely.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s also valid, as a queer author, though, to show characters that do have to overcome their ‘gay panic’ when they first realise they’re gay. It’s something a lot of us have gone through, but it’s important to show the comfort you finally feel in yourself when you come out the other end if it.

sssfrs

Why should fiction include all the shitty parts of real life

Deo101

I think straight people see LGBT authors tackle these issues and go "oh so I can too!!!"

And yeah this is why I'm largely drawn to sci-fi and fantasy, I get to entirely remove all the things that hurt me about reality. Dude can just use a cane and everyone is like dope

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Because sometimes fiction helps us process all the shitty parts of real life. Both happy stories that take away shit and gritty stories that acknowledge shit are valid and important

Deo101

Ppl can just be trans and it's fine

I agree they're all important

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I think I'm just super bitter bc here I've seen cis and straight women get awards for their queer romance stories which just hmm)

Deo101

^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I agree it's a super nuanced topic

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...I feel like you've also gotta make some allowance for bad writing. Like, maybe someone's not getting a lot of nuance in their story because their skills aren't sharp enough to handle it yet.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Erin!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And one of the ways they'll get good enough to write better stories is by working out issues through writing the worse stories.

sssfrs

My main character is a butch lesbian gnc completely androgynous person and no one is ever going to say anything nasty to her about it

Deo101

I feel you sssfrs lol(edited)

Deo101

I thirst for gentle, nice LGBT stories. I just crave them

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I feel that. As I build Prismal and decided to include lgbt folks in it, my first thought about it was "would there be any reason for them to be hated in this society? No? Then why would I include that theme?"

Deo101

And yes it's important to delve into the harsher realities and I think it's good to use fiction to explore and work through those themes, definitely, but personally no thx

sssfrs

I like where ppl are just all expected to be pan or bisexual by default

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

heh, I literally have 2 comics and one of them is "real world where characters struggle with realistic prejudices" while the other is "fantasy world with 0% homophobia/transphobia."

Something for everyone!

sssfrs

Nice

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m too goddamn miserable to write such nice stories, lol. But writing gritty stories where my characters go through hell helps me process the stuff I go through in my life. But I love reading those nice stories where we can forget racism and queerphobia exist.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe...I've decided to go into some queerphobia in my next comic only bc I want to...explore historical queer spaces and the kind of space does not make sense in a world that's 100% accepting

Deo101

Yeah it's just all about that nuance babeyy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahhh

Deo101

I think that's also why we see so much more LGBT content of all kinds in indie media

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Absolutely

Less gatekeeping, less opportunity for homophobes to shut it down

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

No big boss complaining it’s not ‘marketable’ to be inclusive

Deo101

And I worry that mainstream stuff will be like "ohoho, so that means I can do it too" *stumbles and sets gay people back 10 years in the eyes of the general public *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YEEEEEEAH there’s that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the mainstream is going slow enough that that's far from my biggest worry

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But change never happens smoothly

Sometimes it goes up and down before society evolves into a better mindset

Deo101

Well yeah ofc, but even on a smaller scale of bad people reading good works it is kinda happening I feel like

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So there’s gonna be periods of shit before being queer is faithfully represented in the mainstream

Deo101

Yeah for sure

It helps normalize things but it also can do it in an unhealthy way and it's frustrating

As in people going "yes let's include gay romance *it's just bl tropes *"

And things like that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the best way to counter that is by producing & supporting more stories of all kinds -- the more complex and multifaceted a view people get, the better

Deo101

Yeah

From people who are handling those stories well, too ^^^

Which is subjective of course I know that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Also, something nobody's mentioned that I think should come up...a lot of times you don't know who's straight/cis and who's not. Like, if it's Famous Mainstream Author JKR, you can be pretty sure, but with small-scale indie creators, how much can you tell the difference between "straight/cis artist who thinks BL tropes are how all real gay relationships work" versus "gay/bi/trans/etc artist who understands IRL fine, but it's fun and self-indulgent for them to write those tropes"?

Especially since the artist could be actively in the closet. Or could still be on their own journey of self-discovery and not know they aren't straight and/or cis yet. All the more so since indie creators are more likely to be younger than well-established mainstream standards.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know about you guys, but it’s always BLATANTLY obvious to me by how they’re writing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

How did you confirm it? Did you ask them?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Call it intuition

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't think it's always confirmable tho :C

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Granted, sometimes a person writes with enough nuance that I can tell they're queer, but how do you tell a straight writer from an awkward/inexperienced/clunky queer writer?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know a lot of authors thinking they were cishet and later on realizing they were not

and some of them wrote a lot of "yikes"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s writing patterns and use of tropes that signal whether the person is actually respectful if the queer community or not

Deo101

Also just cause you're working through things doesn't mean it's a healthy exploration that is good for the community at large

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Even if they’re queer and self-indulging, there’s a lot of tells both in the comics and in their commentary

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I think some tropes are fair to criticise no matter if the author is queer or not but there are also queer authors writing disrespectful tropes

it's not sth that I see a lot, but I've seen it

Deo101

^ yeah this

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

All questions of their writing aside, there are definitely queer people who don't respect the community IRL, either...

Deo101

Like it's not good to write glorifying rape fic of pedophilia no matter who you are or how it's helping you work through things. I mean you can write it but then to share it is something else entirely

Not saying those are common things but they're pretty very much "bad" things

And actually glorifying rape is something I do see much more than I would have expected

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And that’s problematic, too. When you’re part of a community but not respectful of it, that’s just as bad as a straight person being homophobic. Sometimes the worst homophobia cones from within the community, but that doesn’t make it okay or healthy.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you share a dark story behind accurate warnings and labels, then it can reach other people who are working through something by reading it, and be avoided by people who don't.

Deo101

Yeah there's a lot of lateral agression within the community

Okay but glorification of it isn't a healthy way to work through those things it's not a dark story

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying homophobia from within the community is okay or healthy, I'm just saying it doesn't have to indicate that the person is straight/cis.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a lot of dark themes in my comics. There is rape, but it is never shown on panel and never never glorified. I think it’s a subject that’s important to talk about, but I find it extremely disturbing how much it’s romanticised in fiction.

Deo101

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

DanitheCarutor

Huh, this convo reminds me of an article a friend sent me from someone's Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/posts/25994657 It talks about creation policing, and problematic fiction. You all proooobably won't agree with it given the direction of discussion (which all points of view are totally valid), but this whole subject is super interesting.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, true, you can’t always know if an author is queer or not. I should have been more specific in whether an author has a healthy view of the LGBTQ community or not.

Deo101

So you might not be able to tell if someone is gay by their writing, but there are certain trends that gay people do not generally fall into that MOSTLY indicate someone is straight, though there's no way to know for sure.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

THAT is always obvious to me.

Deo101

And like def there are bi women who fetishize gay men, and there is transphobia and biohobia and everything within the community

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

If they’re being homophobic or just don’t ‘understand’ the queer community, I mean

Deo101

Etc etc, so even if you can't tell whether a harmful representation is written by someone who is LGBT it's a harmful representation regardless

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

^^^^This

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah. I'm always very hesistant on how to address things like this

Deo101

Me too esp since I have such a hard time saying what I mean

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying it's impossible to write harmful representation, but "this is harmful!" gets used as a cudgel against any representation, so often that I'm wary of talking about it as a vaguely-defined blanket category.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s hard to articulate things clearly when in fast-paced chats like this

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, haha

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for leveling people up, huh?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

eifhiuef pfft

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lol. ‘You levelled up talking about homophobia!’

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I feel we're all respectful and try to explain ourselves and give others the chance to do so too)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for something??

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(so that's good haha)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes. Talks like this are super important to help see each others views on tricky subjects

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, I feel like we're making good-faith attempts to understand each other, which...is not something you always get in internet discussions

To put it very very mildly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

We all have our own stories and unique perspectives, and that’s important to share both in the fiction we write and in discussions with each other

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) The subject is pretty sticky. On one hand artists should be allowed to create whatever they like, on the other if that work can perpetuate harm for a certain community should it be allowed? There is a lot of this going around right now where people want sanitization in media, and what works of art are and are not allowed to exist. Not saying it's bad, but it is fascinating. I'm not fully getting into the convo because I'm honestly super neutral.

kayotics

I’m definitely watching the convo play out, it’s interesting to see a chat like this develop

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

yeah I'm taking notes this is not my area of expertise, and it's all good stuff to keep in mind

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm okay discussing & criticizing specific examples (which is probably why I keep bringing up Dumbledore...), but I don't like being critical of broad categories, because they can be so ambiguous & easily misused.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor I think it is very hard to differentiate between people who want difficult subjects to be explored (which is valid) and people who don't want to be called out for certain kinks for example and a lot of the times stuff like "purity policing" gets used to shut legit criticism up. On the other hand there are a lot of examples of callout culture gone wild and honestly ??? Idk anymore.

Deo101

Its very frustrating

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But I'm also at a point where I'm getting super tired of constant discourse so

Deo101

Yeah I've literally had to block words like "ace" cause it's just so often discourse from either side and I'm just so tired of it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus there’s always going to be stories that help one person work through things but that are very toxic and upsetting to someone else. Just like there’s people who are toxic to one person and important to someone else.(edited)

Deo101

I've also blocked LGBT and "feminism" kinda things

I JUST see cats and memes now thank you

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Lee: absolutely, which is why accurate labels are important

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Eyyyy, it's my turn!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes

kayotics

I think it’s important to curate your online experience, and sometimes NOT curating your experience leads to purity policing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

HMM

kayotics

But yes tagging is really important!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think there is the creation of a lot of anxiety in what and what you can't tell in stories

Deo101

Tags are super important but also when someone doesn't think or realize they're doing something harmful they might not tag it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Warning labels all around are always a good idea

Deo101

Like if someone is being a homophobe just cause etheyre homophobic they're not gonna tag that

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

True

Deo101

Why tag it's glorifying abuse if they think it's hot or reality and don't realize that's bad

Etc etc

kayotics

There’s definitely a lot of creator anxiety lately, I’ve had a lot of friends come to me with anxieties about not wanting to start a project they love because they’re afraid of who might attack them online

Deo101

^^^ I've been scared about this

kayotics

Me too, honestly

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same honestly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s always the issue if ‘should harmful ideas be given a platform’ vs ‘stifling voices you just don’t want to hear’ it’s a fine line.

Deo101

I once got all in a tizzy cause I was like "oh my god my planet of women is asking a man for help"

Yeah cause some free speech silences other's

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And sometimes you get people thinking "if I label this with a warning that it contains Bad Content, the internet police will come after me," so they don't use warnings for that reason, and then it's just bad times all around

Deo101

Yeah.

And also there are things no one thinks to warn about, like some very specific triggers

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

Deo101

Its just all around a very difficult to navigate space

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) Right? People do that with anything, if it's not the "purity police" excuse it's "my style", or "I'm friends with -insert minority here-!" I don't bother with the arguments anymore since I've been pushed into them enough, I'm more into seeing opinion on general art policing, or what is and isn't allowed to exist in art. Sorry, I'm being slow at typing again.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Heck, if we're talking about actual psychological triggers, most of them are going to be super-specific

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I have a trigger for fungal growth on bodies now bc I have 3 people who either have probs with plants growiing on bodies OR funghi lol

Deo101

Ya I have a "someone watching someone else sleep" trigger which people use a surprising amount

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...wait, Phin, now you have a trigger, or now you use a warning for it?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor srsly don't worry about it, haha. It's a nuanced topic and I think generalizing is pretty bad when it comes to what you can and can't portray

I use a warning for it, sorry Erin, wasn't clear

I had multiple people approach me so I warn in update posts and should probs also do it on the website

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

no worries, just wanted to be sure

kayotics

I do have an extreme phobia of needles and you’d be surprised how many news sites use active needle shots for vaccination stories

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

GOD I KNOW

I am not afraid of them but like once they are near skin

I don't wanna see...these shots

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a deathly phobia of vomiting and there are NEVER warning labels for it.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I think most people don't regard it and sometimes it's hard to get everything...

a friend of mine, Eli, creates a very gory comic and they put all their warnings on their update post images

and I kinda wanna try to be similarly mindful?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(I’m okay if it’s in a comic and off-panel or the gross part is not shown but the sound and sight are crippling for me and shows and movies just SHOW it all the time)

kayotics

That’s true. Not a vomit fan.

DanitheCarutor

Ah I've thought about using page by page TWs, and I tried it out with one page, but with the amount of triggering thing in my comic I decided on a general warning. (since almost every page would get a warning) A few of my readers also said they preferred not to see them due to possible spoilers.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm...I have a list of possible triggers in my about section

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probably should start doing that bc my comics get very bloody

kayotics

I know I’ll have a scene eventually that I’ll want to have a warning on, but I’m not sure how to warn for it without spoiling?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I installed a spoilertext plugin on one of my comics for that! Now I can put specific warnings at the front of a storyline, and readers who don't have triggers & don't want spoilers can leave them hidden.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OHH that's a cool idea

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, mine is like a general pop-up that you have to click on to proceed to the comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m going to have to look at that plugin. Potential spoilers are the only reason I don’t have really detailed warnings on my comics

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Here's the one I use: https://wordpress.org/plugins/inline-spoilers/

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I'll look into it too. It seems super useful.

Heck thanks Erin!

DanitheCarutor

I don't know how you could make a warning without spoilers, @kayotics! I mean, you might have to if you want to do a page specific one.(edited)

Sorry, my cat sent the message for me.

kayotics

I was thinking a page specific one for the upcoming scene.

So I’m glad that doesn’t seem weird

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'd say super-general warnings are mostly not spoilers. A movie will say "contains graphic violence", and that doesn't tell you who's being violent, or why, or how it's resolved.

DanitheCarutor

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, I think that's not a spoiler, especially if the comic was already violent

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I have warnings for things like ‘graphic violence, blood and gore, nudity, etc. But some chapters or pages probably warrant more detailed TWs.

Deo101

Yeah I'm gonna put in my a/n for a few updates before like "hey there are some spooky scenes comin' up!'

kayotics

I wouldn’t say my comic is already violent, so it’s more applicable for this one scene

Deo101

And yeah things like "watching someone sleep" is gonna be at least somewhat of a spoiler...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hmhm

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics I think it really just depends on the person too. Some readers like page by page TWs, and don't see them as spoilers, others are the opposite. Your readers might appreciate a warning more than mine since your comic isn't overall super graphic.(edited)

Gah I can not type today!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I put "this will get bloody" before some of the vampire storylines, not spoiler-cut -- because it's not a given, but shouldn't exactly be a surprise, either.

Deo101

I also do not mind spoilers whatsoever and I WILL spoil to anyone who asks as I've said many times, but I know not everyone is like me and spoilers are a big deal to many people

"i don't mind spoilers" i love them and they make me enjoy things more for many reasons

DanitheCarutor

Ah same! I'd love to just spill everything!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(Deo high five bc same)

Deo101

My people

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh spoilers got me interested in many comics and I actively spoil myself

like getting into new comics and reading the updates before jumping to the beginning haha

kayotics

I’m very much the opposite

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I don't want to spoil anything, I want to keep people guessing! But sometimes you gotta.

Deo101

Yes. I get incredibly stressed about whether or not things will work out and spoilers relieve that. Even if it doesn't work out like at least I know

I get so so sooo stressed about it

kayotics

Whenever people tell me spoilers I actively like content less

DanitheCarutor

I don't mind them myself. My mom absolutely hates them, and used to make me spoil every movie if I saw it before her, so I'm pretty alright with it.

Deo101

Yeah ik many people are that way

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I also think that's fair

DanitheCarutor

Also spoilers don't affect me either since it's not the content that means anything, but how it's used. Imo

kayotics

Usually for me it’s like. “Ok you spoiled a major character death/reveal, that’s not fun for me anymore”

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH yeah Kay! Tbh

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If there's a big twist, I want to be unspoiled the first time I watch/read/etc the thing. If it's handled well, I can always rewatch it again with the knowledge.

kayotics

Because then I don’t get to experience that anymore

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

that's sth that can also ruin a story for me

kinda didn't get into the current season of CritRoll bc of such a spoiler

with comics it's kinda like...I see them on twitter, read along a few updates and then jump to the beginning so there I don't mind spoilers at all

it's more scoping out if the story's for me

Deo101

Oh man I sometimes only get into things because of spoilers LOL I know I'm weird with this but genuinely I love spoilers so much they make me comfortable with what I'm watching. I love rewatching things cause I know how it goes down and I'm not stressed by it

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I sometimes have troubles to deal with...raw emotions towards media so spoilers help me with that too

like preparing myself for it to hurt

(not always tho)

Deo101

Right yeah for sure

Even if I know it won't work out I KNOW and I don't put energy into getting my hopes up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I hate spoilers, personally. I love going into stories completely blind or with just the bare-bones ‘genre, overall theme’ because I LOVE being shocked and surprised and have plot-twists thrown at me, so that’s what I do with my own comics(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's also fair. Right now my brain's not in the mood for that so I gotta play it save hehe

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still don't like saying "here's what the Beings are" in ads or sales pitches for BICP, even though the page where it was revealed is several years old by now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But everyone likes different things so there’s nothing wrong with giving spoilers for your own stories if people want them(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah it depends honestly and that's pretty okay.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Everyone’s different and everyone’s valid

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't spoil my own story, except with artworks and mostly it's without context or cryptic enough that it's not...a real spoiler

yeah!

in that regard, it's just a huge matter of taste

twothirty

i also jump into webcomics, read them backgrounds for a bit then realized im actually into it and read it properly haha

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hahaha yes

If I get invested without context I know it's good lol

Deo101

I don't spoil on public platforms cause I know people don't wanna necessarily see that (unless it's in an ama but I try to avoid spoilers still) but in private? I'll spill whatever tf u want like

I have and I will again!!!! Lmao

I know no one is gonna write it like me and also it's p linear so the only spoilers people really ask are Character things not plot things, anyways

So I'm not worried about theft im not doing anything super wild or original lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

all my favorite panels I've done are all the most spoilery ones, so... whether I share them or not, I lose

Deo101

Aw man

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

SAME

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

nooo

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

but it makes sense! I put all my effort into those moments where the story twists and turns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Some of my fave panels or pages are when big reveals or plot twists happened

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

and it shows

so meh, I'll live

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So I can’t share them to people who haven’t read my comic yet XD

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

luckily they don't make a ton of sense out of context, but... as soon as people start reading they might be like OHHH I know what's coming now

but it got them reading so shrug

I guess all mileage varies

Deo101

I feel like even the way I talk about my comic spoils it LMAO whoops

I'm made out of spoilers I can t hold them all in very clumsy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha

I feel the same a lot

(But I also just wanna scream 24/7 about my stories whoopsie)

Deo101

I once had readers asking me to sum up a chapter caus ethey were confused and I just waited til someone else did it cause I was worried I'd spoil Something in trying to sun it up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Linear stories are good too, though! Just reading a satisfying, well-written story is great; there doesn’t really NEED to be twist and turns for it to be food.

Deo101

Who doesn't wanna scream all the time and their stories hahahahha

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOOD

NOT FOOD

GAH

Deo101

Millennium is yummy yummy yum

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...for the in-universe version of spoilers, I just had a moment of "hang on, this scene could've been way more dramatic if this one character hadn't already been given a certain reveal last chapter"

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

good food, agreed

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Normally I get away with not having a long buffer prepped ahead of time, but for once I wish I could still change this

Nutty (Court of Roses)

i spoil a lot about my characters more than i do the plot lol

i mean except their backstories sometimes

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Oh :C sometimes it's like this, Erin. Reasons buffers are good, but when do you have the time....

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I've tried putting this one on hiatus to prep a buffer, but it turns out I need the deadlines and the regular feedback to push me through making the pages...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

oh I see. Understandable though...the only time I create real buffer is when I finish a book for print and have a deadline there.

(I wanna try to actually...get better though, since I wanna start a second comic project)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I mean, sometimes if there's a process that works for you, you gotta just go with it and not waste energy fighting it. Even if it's not the Best or Most Professional way.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true. It's just frustrating when you compare the work you get done in these phases vs. every other time.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Clearly the solution is to split it up into smaller books, so you have more print deadlines!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha, that might be!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I need buffers or I get super stressed. Unfortunately I also find them difficult to keep up.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Buffers are very hard to keep up. I'm running out of mine next week, whoops

But I've already started working on new pages

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I have...a half-finished, past-deadline page open in another window right now, lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I haven’t been able to draw for about a month, so one comic’s buffer is getting low and the other’s going to either miss this week or be late.

And I’m stressing about it. -_-

sssfrs

I’m so excited for my story to progress. I’m tempted to talk about it but when I am I think that nothing I say casually will be as impactful as just letting the story actually play out

Desnik

I deal with lack of engagement by throwing my ideas (or myself) at people. I learned that keeping secret twists as spoilers was inhibiting my growth as a writer, so instead I talk through my plots with my writing group and I often walk away with much better ideas to write

We're a kidlit/MG/YA group and I'm writing in a similar fashion, so we usually don't have to warn each other about anything we're writing, which is its own kind of freedom

if I can get the content to be good enough, and land in front of someone who'll help me take it further, then the engagement will follow

keii4ii

(This the right place?)

Deo101

Speaking of a lack of engagement, i feel like my engagement rates are incredibly low. I get a good bit, i get comments on every page and im very happy with that, but it's odd that i dont get more given my amount of readers and I wonder if some comics just aren't the kind of story people feel a need to say anything about, or what?

I think so?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My engagement rates are... almost nonexistent.

keii4ii

I TOTALLY GET THAT DOUBT

When my anxiety is bad, it gets... really bad. "Maybe my story isn't worth commenting/ there is nothing to talk about it." I know that's just anxiety, so I try my best to not listen to that voice.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Although I think my audience is just not there? My page-views are pretty low, too, so maybe I just don’t have enough readers to comment (outside of you awesome SF perps)

PEEPS NOT PERPS

MY GOD THIS PHONE

keii4ii

Yeah, my views are fairly low too, considering the sub count I have on platforms

Come on, phone. We're not criminals. (Probably. )

Deo101

Yeah, its just weird when i have like. 1000 readers on tapas and get 0 comments i guess? I do kinda feel like my comic is very.... Its very linear its character driven and people can onky say "aw cute ^^" so much so idk what they would say

Like its legit .1%

keii4ii

hides the bloody knife

Deo101

ITS IN THE FLOWER POT!!!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I was getting about 1k daily views right after I joined SF but now it’s back down to about 100 a day, so shrugs

keii4ii

Views though, it's natural they spike like that even if you retain 100% of the people who checked out your comic!

because typically, people only go through the old pages once

so they give you more views upon first visit

Deo101

^^^

keii4ii

But I 100% understand the worry of "why do people check out my comic and decide not to read it... is there something wrong with my work"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

On webtoons I think I have relatively good engagement for Eryl considering my low sub number. I have about 350-some subs and get an average of 1-2 unique comments per page, though that number goes up when a character dies. (edited)

That’s true! They do get kinda ‘falsely’ inflated when people binge-read archives

Deo101

Most comments i ever got is when I said "tell me your pet names"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lmao, I should try that

Deo101

And then outside of that when luzio and sage do something cute is the most I get like, organically just frim my content

Amas are second most comments which are again, me starting the discussion

Maybe alk my authors comments should be like "tell me about your fave color" that'll inflate my stats

keii4ii

One person told me they don't comment because everything seems so obvious, and they don't wanna be captain obvious. Which I can respect. But I don't think everything is that obvious if the most common comment I get is "I'm lost"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmmm

Deo101

Hahahahhahahahah

Like "NO PLEASE SHARE THESE THINGS"

keii4ii

IKR

Deo101

Help everyone else out!!!

keii4ii

There is a term in Korean comment section culture

"Konan" (from Detective Konan)

It's a term for commenters who explain obtuse stuff for other readers

Sometimes you'll even see comments like "Hurry up, Konans! I'm too tired to think! Spoonfeed me what happened in this update!"

Deo101

Me reading every comic ever

keii4ii

I NEED A KONAN IN MY COMMENT SECTION

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly I wish western readers did that, but they either get attacked for being ‘Captain Obvious’ or people scream SPOILER!!!! at them

Deo101

I really wish people woukd expkain for me too because then i know some people get it, but ALSO i dont want to explain things i didn't show, accidentally.

snuffysam

one thing i've found that helps with engagement is making sure to include something on the page for people to talk about, no matter how relevant it is. like a while back i had a (in my opinion) fairly boring scene where it's basically "where do we gotta go" "i'm not telling" "please" "ok you gotta go here" so to give readers something to talk about i had one of the characters take a hotdog out of a pokeball and eat it.

keii4ii

There was also this incredibly, incredibly obtuse comic. It had a fascinating hook but then became almost impossible to follow. You'd see comments like "so this is the Forbidden Realm that even Konans cannot enter."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hahaha

Deo101

I try to make every page have something, i usually have 3 goals i want a page to accomplish but it's not very... Fun i guess? Its just kibda like "yes this happened"

keii4ii

It's also kinda sad when you DO put something important to you, and nobody says anything (or worse, says "so when is it gonna get interesting???")

Deo101

Yeah...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So once I spun this theory on a comic by picking it up from context clues. And I was like ‘Hey guys, what if X character is the dragon???’ and everyone was like ‘WELL DUH IT’S IN THE HOVER TEXT.’ I read comics on mobile where hover text doesn’t always work, and after getting sneered at for something ‘everyone knew already’ I was put off of ever being a Konan type again.

Deo101

:(

I never read the hover text unless its by accident I just dont think t

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. And it wasn’t obvious from reading without the hover text so I was really proud of myself for figuring it out. But it just goes to show how rude commenters can scare away well-intentioned ones.(edited)

keii4ii

aaaugh D:

snuffysam

tbh i'm not sure why an author would put something important in the hover text where mobile readers can't see it. or tbh in blogs, side stories, etc. if it's important to understanding the main story, it should be in the comic.

Deo101

Yeah that's what im thinking... Hover text should be for puns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It was revealed later that chapter in the main comic, but apparently it wasn’t a ‘secret’ like I thought it was.

keii4ii

Bleeeh, sorry that happened to you. >_< This is why we can't have nice things

Where is the nearest Konans R Us, I want to order one for each of our comics.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah... I’m very socially anxious / awkward so I’ve been scared away from quite a few comment sections. I still read the comics and buy them if they go to print, but a negative commenting experience usually discourages me from ever participating in the discussion.

keii4ii

100% understandable

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Which is why I feel it’s super important for the creators to moderate their comments (or hire a good moderator if they don’t have the time). A lot of comment sections get toxic if the author is lax about fostering a positive discussion environment.

Deo101

That makes me feel much better about the times ive asked people to cut Something out or deleted comments.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I appreciate that effort very much.

Deo101

I worry that its "disengenuous" or something and if someone has a negative opinion I don't want to be like "nope you're ONLY allowed to be nice to me!!!" But it's not good, i don't think, to let people feel safe being mean In my comments.

keii4ii

Yeah, there is being critical, and there is being mean

Deo101

So I rarely do it but I have and I don't feel any guilt over the times i have

Right

keii4ii

Sometimes a comment can tread the fine line between the two and it's really annoying that it's not Obviously, Blatantly Mean

Deo101

Yeah hahahahahhaha

keii4ii

But I try to remember that I too have walked that line unintentionally and obliviously, back when I was younger

Deo101

Right. I have too

I was like "oh man I am so smart and im about ti IMPART MY KNOWLEDGE ON YOU!!!" *Is a jerk *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That one comic I was talking about earlier: the author had a hard time keeping up with moderating and eventually took comments off the main site. It was 100% not her fault and she was herself getting emotionally distressed from the amount of negativity in the comments. Especially since the comic itself is really thoughtful and has a lot of messages of acceptance.

Deo101

:(

keii4ii

>_<

Deo101

Uhh but yeah! Does .1% feel like about what y'all get as far as comments:readers goes?

.1-.2

I feel like i have no actual gague for this lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It varies from comic to comic (for no quantifiable reason, usually) but that is about right. 99% of readers are lurkers.

Deo101

Dope, I was worried I had like super low numbers when talking with some people and it got me worried about my content

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus subs don’t necessarily translate to active readers. A lot of people just never clean out their library after they stop reading something / subbed it to read later and never got around to it or left the site entirely.

Deo101

But I've also just got a lot of anxiety about what im producing and how it's percieved in general

Yeah ik

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can see people binging my archives from my stats but maybe 1 in 100 or less leaves any comments.

snuffysam

on average, each subscriber to my comic has posted about 45 comments total (which is like 0.07 comments per subscriber per page) if someone clicks on a page (subscriber or not), there is a 0.5% chance of that person leaving a comment.

Deo101

See for me its like. 1 in 1000 leaves a comment...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(It’s okay I get anxiety over it, too)

Deo101

Yeah i was gonna say uhhh whats it called

Shoot i lost mt train of thought.

Right. I feel like the longer a comic goes on tbe less frequently people engage

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I’ve noticed that in my comics, too.

Deo101

Like less readers will have made it to the end, more will be inactive, etc

snuffysam

i've found that my active commenters take a jump in early march (i.e. right after the comic's anniversary), and any time a book ends (since, i guess people like seeing how all the stuff that's happened in the book culminates)

Deo101

Oh that's an interesting note

snuffysam

i suppose that's some other advice on increasing engagement - give a reason for even caught-up readers to leave comments. one thing i've been doing is redrawing old pages and releasing the redraws on anniversaries, which gives reason for people to re-read.

and for end of book stuff, i suppose people are more willing to predict how something is going to end when it's close to ending

Deo101

Hmmmm

I'm taking notes

twothirty

seeking validation through comments is my downfall, because i just dont seem to write a comic that has the type of readership who is into that. What helped was just looking at google analytics and being like "oh right, of course people read this, its clearly here in this data" haha.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

twothirty, same. It's kinda hard to get out of that mindset.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Raises hand I need constant reader validation and get depressed easily when there isn’t. It’s not healthy, but it’s really hard to break out of that mindset.

Deo101

Im not seeking validation through comments, but when i have thousands of readers and get only like 5 it does make me look twice and start wondering if there's something I'm doing wrong.

And yeah it's hard to break out of the mindset

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Me constantly atm haha

Deo101

Especially if you've bee. Hurt in the past and you feel like people secretly hate your work because... In the oast they have

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I wonder if it's actually...a change in how people interact with media nowadays?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh yeah, definitely, Deo. I got so much negative feedback when I first started posting webcomics and it still sticks with me today.

Deo101

Yeah I've been lucky where people have been mostly nice to me or otherwise just indifferent which makes it so I don't have a super negative experience that my anxieties latch onto

And its STILL hard

Because words of affirmation is my love language lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Partly I think it was because I was creating a lot of gender-nonconforming characters in an era when that wasn’t well-accepted in Western comics (reminder that I was surrounded by a veeeery conservative environment at the time), and partly because my skills were just not what they are now. There were a lot of nasty comments from both strangers and people I knew, and it was really tough to work through. I think if I hadn’t had the Tomgeeks forum to hang out in, I probably would have given up.

(For you young’uns, Tomgeeks was a webcomic list site and we had a really tight group in the forums. A lot of that old crowd are now in Spider Forest).

Kabocha

(Sorry, saw the tomgeeks mention! I remember aspiring to be in that group one day, but I was a lil' too much of a noob back in the day.) A lot of media is kind of... Sometimes you need to put a call to action to be like, "HEY LEAVE A COMMENT!" or something - else, they forget in a lot of cases, but ofc that's no guarantee.

keii4ii

Re: people being less willing to engage the longer a comic has been going on, that is definitely a thing

I think it's called archive burn or something

and I feel it too sometimes, as a reader. I feel like I'm not "allowed" to start reading a comic unless I can find a big enough chunk of free time to finish the archive in one session

It's 100% irrational but... it is a thing

I've found that I don't experience it IRL, with physical books. The end of each volume is a really good stopping place

snuffysam

then i suppose a problem is that webcomics don't really have stopping points you can physically see like physical books like when you're reading a book series, you know where one book ends, but when you read a comic you don't really unless you check how many pages each chapter has

and even then it's hard to keep that in mind when it isn't physical

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I definitely understand that feel. It's kept me from doing a lot of the book club comics because I'm like "I got ten pages in, but that's not enough to comment" T_T

snuffysam

maybe someone could program a widget for comic sites that works similarly to the page indicators in ebooks. like "you're 40% of the way through the chapter, and at your current reading speed you have 10 minutes left"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Comic Rocket!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Does Archive Binge also have a feature like that?

I feel like they might... I don't use those kind of readers so I'm not super familiar with them.

snuffysam

archive binge lists what page you're on and how many pages the comic has, but there's no reading speed thing no

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don't know. I'm technically on Archive binge, but didn't get any subs there so I didn't look into it past creating my listing. I don't use those services myself because I like a nice long archive to work through, but I know that comic Rocket shows you how much of an archive you've read.

snuffysam

also, the thing i'm talking about would be for chapters as well as the whole comic. because if there is a big archive, people like to know how long they have before a good stopping point

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I'm on Archive Binge. I don't think I have any subs either but definitely get traffic regularly as if I did. How even does internet work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

snuffysam

i guess recently updated?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually check out the archive page of a comic to get a good idea of chapter length, myself. So I know if I'm in for 10 pages chapters or 100 page chapters. Plus, idk, I have no problem stopping anywhere and picking it up again later, but I may be a pretty atypical reader.

Lmao, I have no idea how the internet works. I was one of the first people to list on Archive Binge and I have never gotten a single click from it. I get a steady number from Comic Rocket, though.

keii4ii

I wonder if it'd be worth experimenting with chapter numbers? Like, re-number existing chapters like "Season 2, chapter 2 of 15" instead of "chapter 20" ?

Deo101

^ thats a good idea

seeing "chapter 20" makes me as a reader go like, oh god, theres so many,,

snuffysam

^ that's one of the major reasons i label things "book X chapter Y" instead of just counting up chapters forever though adding "out of" is an interesting addition...

keii4ii

I'm nearing the end of season/ book/ whatever 2. I should give this a try

Cronaj

Lol, my books are going to be 3 chapters long each, so I don't think it would make much sense for me XD

keii4ii

Yeah, my chapters are short but numerous, so this might have a different effect than comics with longer but fewer chapters

Deo101

I'd be afraid of saying "out of" cause... well, i dont know how many heheh...

it all gets wacky when it comes time to actually make the thing

snuffysam

i mean, could add 'em retroactively as each "season" finishes

Deo101

oh thats true!

keii4ii

I would probably do "Chapter x out of [REDACTED]" (not that but something similar) when I start posting book 3

Cronaj

Yeah, my chapters are around 35-50 pages, so they're pretty long'

snuffysam

listing how many chapters are in book 3 would kinda spoil a twist lol, so i'll probably only do it retroactively

same lol

and some are 80 pages

book 3's going to have one 120 page chapter which is wild

Cronaj

I was thinking about printing 4-5 chapter books, make it more like a manga-length

keii4ii

You know, some comics (Korean comics do this a lot) do like... Chapter 10: Happy Day, followed by Chapter 11: Happy Day (2), followed by Chapter 12: Happy Day (3)

Cronaj

but full color printing is expensive

keii4ii

Dividing what might have been a single chapter into digestible chunks

snuffysam

i've split "arcs" into multiple chapters before, but unfortunately there aren't really any solid split areas in the chapter in question

Cronaj

and I doubt anybody wants to shell out $25+ on a 200 page comic

This is of course, a consideration for the future, as I don't even have the first chapter finished yet, but ya know

Come next year, I'll have some big decisions to make

@keii4ii Is that a webtoon thing? I've noticed that webtoons have shortish chapters

snuffysam

webtoons an entire chapter is posted at once

keii4ii

It's a Korean thing, which means Webtoons gets some of it

Cronaj

I mean, technically I post my comic in scrolling format, so I consider it a webtoon, but it's definitely drawn for print

@snuffysam, I mean the length of the chapters. The chapters (or episodes) are usually somewhere between 50-100 panels long, which is anywhere between 10-20 pages of a traditional comic

keii4ii

(Tangent, but as a Korean speaker I'm very weirded out by the word "webtoon" in English contexts. Over there every webcomic regardless of format is called a webtoon; I guess it's like anime/manga in Japanese? That in Japan, every animated show is anime, and every cartoon thingie is manga?)

Cronaj

Yeah, that makes sense

In the english speaking world, originally there were comics and webcomics, with little difference between except that one was posted online

but when Korean webtoons entered the English-speaking market, the naming conventions changed

The major difference being the prevalence of scrolling-format webtoons, which made people think that the difference between webtoons and webcomics is the format

but really, it's just a naming thing

You can call a comic a manga, and people expect a black and white comic in a specific style, but really, it's just a comic in Japanese

keii4ii

Yeah

Deo101

I usually just say "scroll style comic" or "page format comic" because im putting pages up on webtoons so it feels... weird to me

keii4ii

That too

IT'S A PICTURE STORY THINGIE WITH SPEECH BALLOONS

Deo101

hahahaha

Cronaj

In the end we are all just children XD

kayotics

this is really late, but i've been getting a lot more comments on my main site lately and I have no idea what I did to encourage that.

Deo101

people caught on

kayotics

That's probably all it is, but it's really surprising that my main site is the one getting more comments, since I wouldn't say it's necessarily a well built comment system? It's the native CMS comment system, and I require the first comment to be moderated

keii4ii

Does this mean I can claim I started reading Ingress before it got famous 8)

kayotics

yes

BUT, I'd say that the estimation of 1% of readers (or whatever the number was) is still accurate.

Deo101

.1% ish

kayotics

I have the most eyes on my comic over on Tapas, and while I do get a handful of comments there, it still equates to less than 1% of the total people subscribed. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for that (like subscribers who aren't regular readers, people who quit the app, etc), but even the ratio of views to comments is pretty low.

Deo101

yeah I've been noticing that too

I have the most eyes on webtoons but I still have like. a good chunk on tapas and I think those are just more... casual sites

kayotics

yeah absolutely

Deo101

like on comicFury I have way higher engagement rates and i think that's pretty typical cause most of that audience there is also creators

kayotics

I'm sure there's some people who are pretty dedicated on Tapas, but I'd guess that there's more dedicated readers on my self-hosted site, just because they have to specifically seek out the content.

Deo101

^that makes a lot of sense to me

I know a lot of people who follow me on tapas are following 100+ other comics

and i know for SURE I wouldnt be able to take the time/effort to comment on like 10+ comics a day, assuming theyre even keeping up with all thsoe

wow yeah I just checked my list this person has over 6,000 comics theyre subscribed to, and a few have over 500

just on the first page of my readers(edited)

sooooo yeah it makes sense why engagement would be low if people are regularly reading that mant...

keii4ii

I actually rambled about this on twitter recently!

Deo101

and also makes me feel a little bit less bad when people are confused hahahahaha

keii4ii

How I thought I'd get a very small readership who are into what I'm making, but I ended up getting that very small readership PLUS a huge number of people who are just casually reading it

That first expectation was mostly based on my experience with my previous webcomic, but things were different back then. Big platforms weren't a thing, so casual readers were less common.

Deo101

yeah that's really neat

since I've only been making millennium for like... a little over 2 years and it's my first comic, I kinda just started with like 5 mirrors and was like "alright well, lets see how this goes I guess"

I had only ever read one webcomic before i literally have no idea how or why i got so convinced into making a comic

but since I was like 12 years old I was like "hm... I am going to make a comic i think." I just never did any research or tried til recently

or read any. I dont know how this happened

keii4ii

Casual readers vastly outnumbering the dedicated ones used to make me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I think that's just how the times are.

Deo101

Yeah :/ it's hard NOT to notice and feel like you're doing something wrong though.

when its like "okay i have 7,000 subs and got 5 comments" it's like ??? what am i doing WRONG

even though... its nothing wrong

it just be that way

hard to match those two ideas up though

almost went to continue this thought in an entirely different channel.

I think there is also something to be said for people not wanting to repeat a comment

like "oh someone already said what I thought so I'll just give it a thumbs up"

keii4ii

That's what upvoting is for!!!

Deo101

yup!

keii4ii

though, tfw highest voted comments are like "I have no idea wtf is going on lol"

Deo101

YEAH.

also do you ever comment on your own pages?

like not replying to people

keii4ii

I think I did once or twice, back when I actualy had relevant info and didn't have enough room in author's notes or something

Deo101

I've done it a few times, but it's usually kind of to ask questions where I can get replies

keii4ii

I have also seen a pro Korean creator post "first" on their own comic because they were tired of seeing so many of those

Deo101

I did that once LMAO

it's funny when people comment on my comic "FIRST!!!" cause i'm like. dude i get like 10 comments it's not that special to be first

but i'm happy theyre there and theyre excited its kinda cute i guess

keii4ii

Yeah, it's harmless

Deo101

and it's also nice to have people think that they have to race to be first

even though they don't

so it's kind of a nice comment to get even if it's not commenting on my work at all

keii4ii

It's kinda like hitting the like/heart button, just with more HURRY POINTS

Deo101

yeah hehe

oh i do 100% like all my own pages though

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually get the most commenters on Webtoons but I’m (fairly?) sure I have more readers on my website.

Deo101

on webtoons, I don't do it on tapas cause you can see i did it LOL

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think I only ever got one First! comment and that was the only comment on that page.

keii4ii

Hey no shame in being your own #1 fan

Deo101

the one time I said "first!" was cause it had no comments on it for like a year and a hal

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh no, I don’t like my own pages. For some weird reason I feel like it’s cheating.

Deo101

and hell YEAH! I'm my number one fan so much that i'm making a dang comic for how much I like these characters ;D

keii4ii

I don't feel bad about liking my own pages, but I rarely do it because I wait a bit before even looking at the post

Deo101

inflate your own stats its cool. all the cool kids are doing it

keii4ii

And by the time I look at it, I forget about liking

Deo101

I only do it on webtoons cause I have to manually post there anyways

so i post and its like "heres the page!" and im like :) good job me :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I might start doing it. XD I get an average of 5-10 likes per page so why not.(edited)

Deo101

I also rate myself 10* or whatever the max is wherever I can

keii4ii

Yeah, and TBH one like isn't gonna give you an unfair advantage anyway

Deo101

^

keii4ii

If you're making a dozen alt accounts to give yourself more likes, now that's a bit questionable

Deo101

yeah that would be not so good

but you're a real account who likes your work so why not!

keii4ii

Yeah!

Deo101

I also honestly kinda like to sub to my own stuff and like my pages partially to make sure it's all working right

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should probably rate myself 10* bc both my comics got ratings-bombed at one point for really dumb reasons.

Deo101

like to see when the page goes up and everything

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The ratings have slowly crawled back up a ways, but it’s always disheartening when people attack my comics for stupid things.

keii4ii

Oh, to go back to an earlier point about asking questions to readers to encourage commenting, I might straight up ask next week if my comic is making any sense.

Deo101

ohhhhh man i dont like swingin at that hive lol

keii4ii

I'll have to word it well because I do not want it to be a pity party

Deo101

but i mean it might encourage the people who do get it to go "yup!"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do straight up ask every now and then. Sometimes I’ll get a pity comment when I do and sometimes it’s still crickets.

Deo101

also I feel really lucky that I havent had anyone be like, mean to my about my work.

I feel like trolls have really gone down in popularity

keii4ii

like even right now I feel like nobody's getting it (except maybe <10 people) so..... I don't think the answers could make me feel worse

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I meant I straight up ask for comments, ugh, I misread Keiiii’s post.

I GET IT, KEIIII

I LOVE UR BABIES

Deo101

oh man, I could never just ask for comments. if I'm feeling really down I usually send it to my friends like "can i have smth nice please" I just get really anxious asking people for things

not that asking is necessarily bad I just, as a person could never do that

also keiiii I havent read it yet but it's on my list cause the way you talk about your work and what I do know of it... seems like it would really jive right with me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually do it along the lines of: ‘If you enjoy this comic, don’t forget to leave a comment! Getting feedback motivates me to keep drawing!’

Deo101

oh okay thats not so bad

oh my god how are the eyes moving

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m shameless, you can say it

Deo101

I have too much shame probably

keii4ii

It is my anxiety moving the eyeballs

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Give me sone of your shame, it’ll even us out

Deo101

please take it

keii4ii

(anxiety with Nitro powers)

Deo101

NOOO dont be anxious im gonna love it

god that eyes shaking emoji is so great

keii4ii

ikr!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So fun fact- my real face eyes do that

keii4ii

I think Tatsumaki wants to see you do it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s called nystagmus and it’s super trippy if you’ve never seen it before!

keii4ii

OH, I knew someone with that condition!

I never noticed anything about their eyes (only heard about them having the condition from talking), because I never met them while wearing my glasses X'D;;

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My eyes just RANDOMLY do it a lot and it really freaks people out XD

Desnik

I've found that comments don't matter too much, but getting a boost from someone with a big following does

and the only comments I take seriously are from people I trust, although I get it: chasing the internet numbers is fun

snuffysam

what do you mean by "comments don't matter" you mean, like, in terms of garnering popularity?

Desnik

yeah, and as validation they can be a bit fluffy too

my perspective changed when I started printing out my work as zines and got people to buy them irl, it was very eye-opening

very few people commented on them online but in person I've found out they're not bad? And one of them got me a lettering job

keii4ii

Eh, I think it's okay to have different goals. To some people, good comments mean the world, and that's totally valid to want that.

Desnik

I know, just stating my pov

keii4ii

I mean that to some people, a good comment is not just an "internet number."

Desnik

fair enough

I believe I allowed for 'good comments' as being from someone I trust

keii4ii

Me, I treasure insightful comments from anyone who's invested in my story. To each their own

FeatherNotes

I have a book that I write them down to give me a lil boost to morale when I need it! i def appreciate the time it took for someone to write something thoughtful

keii4ii

Yeah!

Capitania do Azar

Oh comments are like.. What I like the most! (not all comments are the same tho). The reason I put my story out there is so I can share it and discuss it with people and the fact that a few take some time off their day to actively tell me what they think it's what keeps me moving

eli [a winged tale]

I really enjoy comments too. I always respond to my Instagram ones but not the comic ones mostly because of platform difficulties

Glowbat (Aloe)

I love reading through all the comments- they really motivate me when I'm having a low point and need a pick me up to get goin on pages. I just wish I was better at knowing how to respond instead of just liking the comment and hoping they recieve my telepathic brainwaves of gratitude

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Replying to comments is very hard and I always have the anxiety of "ruining" it haha ;; whatever it is (the person's enjoyment of my work?? who knows)

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel that- part of me is always nervous I'm gonna say somethin to off put them or smthn.

Though I do try my best to curate comment sections if things are looking like they're gonna get rowdy

keii4ii

YEAH, and/or sometimes you're like "this comment is Awesome and deserves an Equally Awesome reply... HOW DO I DO THAT" and get stuck in a loop

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss exactly that

I'm not that clever and I require lots of time to come up with anything I'm confident in lol

and by the time I have something cool to say back its been like a week

keii4ii

I made a Discord icon to express my internal response in a visual form to such Awesome comments, but I can only use those on Discord

This one:

Glowbat (Aloe)

Hehe

cuteee

and also a mood

keii4ii

Sparkling tears of happiness

Capitania do Azar

I believe them

Cronaj

Man... I will admit, I barely respond to comments

And that probably sounds terrible

But I honestly don't have time to respond to every comment

As well as the anxiety of not know what to say

It does depend on platform tho

keii4ii

I mean, as a reader I don't expect a reply if my comment is like "ooo nice!"

Cronaj

Generally, I respond more readily to comments on Tapas than on Webtoons, because I only have like 2 commenters at most on Tapas

And usually it's readers who ALWAYS comment, so I almost feel like they deserve a response, even if it's just a smiley face or a "thank you"

keii4ii

But if I've written a long ass essay comment, it would be nice to have some kind of engagement with that. Don't get me wrong, the creator doesn't owe me a reply but it's like... should I ever do this again with this comic. Or is my reply-writing time better spent on another comic

Cronaj

True

keii4ii

I def respect that not every creator has time to read all of the comments, regardless of how many comments they typically get

Cronaj

On Webtoons, I have way more engagement, but most of it is thirst for my characters or talking about the art style

keii4ii

and that not every creator may even aim to get comments

Cronaj

So I don't usually know how to respond to stuff like that

keii4ii

But if that is the case........ I would rather know before committing myself to multiple essay-length comments

Yeah, that is understandable!

Cronaj

I read every comment, but I don't want to respond to all of them

keii4ii

I'm 100% cool with "thicc" comments on my MC's butt or on my tiger dude's legs, but I can't necessarily think of productive replies to those

Cronaj

The only comments I respond to on Webtoons are either a) incredibly funny, b) meaningful and noticing more than the art, or c) a genuine question

Like if someone asks about my update schedule

Or if someone wants to know which programs I use

I had one comment about how good my grammar in the dialogue/thoughts is, and I felt so honored that someone else noticed

Usually I get comments about the art (which is also nice), but I prefer comments about the story or subtleties

keii4ii

It's the best thing when people notice the things that you put a lot of thought and love into

Cronaj

For several years in high school, I played around with the idea of getting a writing degree, so grammar and literary language have a special place in my heart

sssfrs

I respond to every single comment... I get one comment a month pretty much though

When friends or readers say nice things about my comic on any platform I save a screenshot and read them if I start to feel like nobody likes what I’m making

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do the exact same

FeatherNotes

Its a good practice when things are kind of slow! Or just for that lip morale boost too

[starrysence]

ralbert for the hc. . thinv. g

ok these are kinda all over the place????? like the ones where theyre not dating yet arent necessarily before the ones where they are dating. its just kinda. scattered. oops sorry 

warnings: 100% swearing. if its ralbert you can basically guarantee that theres swearing

●ok so theres this period of time where nobody can tell whether al and race are dating or just doing bro things like they always do

▪probably bc these two have always been so physically affectionate???? there isnt really a noticeable change after they start dating▪until jack and finch see them making out against a wall and decide to just leave them be without making any noise▪but yeah thats 100% how the boys find out▪"you guys didn't know we were dating????"▪"no wtf you've always acted like a couple we just thought it was the typical Bro Behaviour" ▪they all bust out laughing at that one●race LOVES the snow which is 100% ironic bc he gets cold so easily (can you tell im trying to do as many snow hcs as possible)▪albert doesnt like the snow. he doesnt. understand. race. ESPECIALLY because race gets cold so easily▪"baby why dont you just come inside i can just make hot chocolate and we can binge watch hallmark christmas movies a month too early,,,,,,,"▪"nOo Oo al the snow is so pretty"▪"youre prettier"▪"nice try but im not coming in"▪"aw damn"●has race stolen albert's sweaters during the winter??????? Absolutely ▪has albert cared??? of course not. look at his boy. he looks fucking adorable. he cant take that sweater away from race even tho hes already stolen half the sweaters in al's closet▪one time race was half-asleep on the couch when al got home late from a graphic design workshop and he was in one of albert's sweaters▪al thought it was tje cutest thing hes ever seen▪he didnt want race falling asleep on the couch tho so he Scooped him up and put him down on their bed▪"youre so sweet albie,,,,,,,,, i love you"▪thats the first time either one of them has said i love you since they started dating?????? albert is Shook bc it feels so different now▪"love you too, racer"●these two 100% went through a taylor swift phase together and You Can't Change My Mind▪it includes the ones a lot of people know like shake it off, blank space, etc. but also so many other ones▪they have a whole ass taylor swift playlist but they never really delete it after they get past their phase???▪so al absolutely brings it back when race is going through a breakup▪so here they are. two teenage boys, singing/yelling along to taylor swift songs. ft. like 6 tubs of mint choco chip ice cream and 8 boxes of tissues▪race feels so much better afterwards????▪gives albo a lil kiss on the cheek ▪"thank you, albie"▪albert dasilva? blushing????? pshhhh. nahhh (read: absolutely 100%)●yall Best Believe race can bake like nobody's business and albert Lives For It bc he can barely bake a batch of cookies▪however, the only food race can cook w/o nearly burning something down is italian food▪so usually albert cooks▪but baking???? yall this boy CAN BAKE▪thats actually the reason albert starts falling in love w/ him LMAO ARE U REALLY SURPRISED▪literally theyre like 13 or 14 right? and race has baked a batch of brownies and albert is in HEAVEN when he tries one▪"i think im in love"▪"hahaha with me or the brownies?"▪".....the, uh,,,,, the brownies, duh"▪lol no its race AND the brownies but he doesnt totally know that yet●if youve read my more recent fics u might remember race's sisters▪if noT, he has 4 sisters ok. two older, two younger. he is the middle child. What A Life▪siblings from oldest to youngest: veronica, ilia, race, rosetta, elsie▪albert and race have been best friends since childhood so albert and race's sisters know each other really well. theyre all Pals▪literally???? race's sisters Love Him▪when they find out race likes albert they do not let it go. for a second. race is Actually terrified theyll expose him in fromt of albert one day▪best believe they go WILD when they find out race and al are finally dating ▪the first time albert comes over after theyre dating all 4 of race's sisters TACKLE HIM▪"HELLOOOO FUTURE BROTHER-IN-LAW"▪albert is so absolutely stunned afterwards and race is crying w/ laughter●these two swear. so much. its really funny yall▪once jack dared them to go a whole week without swearing and they didnt realise how hard it would be▪"albert you fu----- fabulous human being, you"▪"stop being such an a----- aDORABLE person, race, my heart cant handle it"▪its actually very wholesome but the week is hell for those two▪the next monday theyre both like "FUCK yes we can fucking swear again thank goodness"▪its a very swear-heavy week to make up for the last one. the boys are Really Amused●race is so full of energy all the time its actually kinda weird for albert to see him tired or drowsy before nighttime▪but he knows if he gives race any form of caffeine or sugar the boy will practically be bouncing off the walls▪so he chooses to enjoy his time w/ sleepy race while it lasts bc while its pretty unusual its also absolutely adorable▪race is even more cuddly than usual when hes tired/sleepy ngl and i mean,,,,,, albert isnt complaining▪al lives for the lil smile race has on his face when hes tired and albert has just kissed his forehead or something. its so cute he swears hes gonna explode●albert is Wonderful at poetry yall cant try me on this i will take it to my grave▪race has no idea about this until they have to write a poem for english▪very open-ended assignment. a poem of any style about anything you want to write about▪albert says his is about one of the best gifts hes ever received and it turns out▪the poem is abt race▪and its REALLY well written half the class is saying 'awwww' and the other half is near tears and smiling▪race is part of the other half. except he starts crying. did i mention hes emotional as hECK●shsjjfjgs amusement park dates▪these boys live for them (also i rlly just want an excuse to write about amusement park dates)▪kind of chaotic bc race bruises really easily AND hes really clumsy so if he and al have to part ways for a bit he might look like shit when they reconvene and albert is like "do i have to fight somebody or did you just do something dumb and get yourself hurt again"▪"........the latter"▪"jesus christ, race. youre such a disaster. but i love you"▪"love you too albieeeeee"

×××

sahjkhdks i love them so much. i think i got a bit carried away with all of these lmaooo so i hope you like them!!

-sanj 💕

tag list:

@but-let-us-seize-the-day​

@one-candy-cane-please​

@suddenly-im-respecsable​

@intoomanyfandomstopickaname​

@be-more-chill-evan-hansen​

@aw-jus-let-em-try

@bencookisagod​

@well-the-kids-do-too​

@auspicioustarantula​

@spot-conlon-king-of-brooklyn​

@have-we-got-news-for-you​

@not-a-scab​

@newsiesgarbage​

@pineappapizza

@andthewoildwillknow​

@concrete--donuts​

@stopthe-presses​

@thomasbeingthomas

@i-love-loki-and-sherlock

@maxvanna

@spot-me50-papes

[if you want to be added to my tag list, please shoot me an ask or a message letting me know! i’d be happy to add you!]

[onlyjihoons]

demon!jihoon

a/n; very much inspired by jihoon's demonic lenses he wore here?? and this prompt!i would also like to thank @hwinkinghwi for the demonic(?) moodboard hehe,,,happy early halloween!

jihoon is one of the most cunning demons

he would actually use his ungodly looks to his advantage to get his way

almost everything his goddamn face will make people give in/compromise

sometimes he uses his evil to help kids out

like, he sees a kid being bullied at a playground or something, he would give retribution by shoving sand down the bully's shirt??

(i have no idea how demons work so please spare me)

but other than that jihoon is pretty cynical

when he disguises himself as a mortal, he looks normal, until you look at his eyes,,,

theyre a light blue

they arent even contacts, like theyre just his eye colour

people just believe his lie that those are prescription contacts LOL

jihoon is being notorious for the senior who uses his looks to get through anything and everything

but not his grades lmao

so he's two years older than the kids taking their college entrance exam

basically he just wasted 2 years of his life in school

but he just wants to live off fellow demon!seongwoo,, so he just, doesnt study and goes to school

but seongwoo found out about it,, and made sure jihoon spends his legit last year in high school or jihoon would be ugly in his next life LOL

you're a senior in high school, trying to make the best out of your dying grades

you do know jihoon, but avoid communication as you're an angel

like legit,, angel

you were an angel thanks to your mother, who was involved in the heaven

and she wanted you to live a sin-free life as much as possible

ok now back to avoiding jihoon

why avoid communication?

for a simple reason;

you had a crush on him

and the rule of thumb your mother bestowed upon you was

"you can date anyone but demons"

and you were well aware jihoon was a demon, as your halo(which was invisible to the eyes of mortals) were blinking whenever jihoon would be near you

and you just didnt like the idea of dating a handsome asshole

fun fact: jihoon used to be an angel until he was involved in the 101, which made him evil

you knew jihoon relatively well due to the fact he used to be an angel

he was your childhood friend

always protecting you and looking out for you

your crush on him developed even before he became a demon, and didnt falter even when he wasnt a angel

but the both of you grew distant as your mother would warn you not to play with fire

you were taking a media studies elective as a subject and there was a coursework you had to do

which involved acting w a partner of the opposite gender

and to your luck, jihoon was the only student in the class who took media studies

not knowing anything between the both of you, your teacher assigned the both of you as partners LOL

to make things worse, the story was

romeo and juliet

how ironic lmaoooo

meaning, you had to kiss jihoon

or rather, jihoon had to kiss you

because your teacher chose the last scene, which had the least lines, for the both of you to "ensure your distinctions"

and the both of you just had to bite the bullet and take it because you'd want to graduate from school quickly and attempt to wash the sins of kissing jihoon away by doing more good things in college

while jihoon just wanted to get this thing done and over with

you told your mom about it, she was okay with it, but she still warned you not to fall for jihoon

though, your dad is a demonxangel

its a given that you and jihoon had to stay after school to run through the script

and every time you and jihoon renact the last scene, your breath hitches in your throat and you hiccup

or on days where you just burst out laughing and accidentally spit on jihoon

he actually wasnt that mad about it because 1. he knew how hard it was to keep one's composure in a kiss scene WITH THEIR CRUSH

2. he just thought you were cute

despite jihoon not kissing you for practices

which you were thankful for or else you cant sleep at night

until,,, the day of the assesment

everything went fairly smoothly, and the dreaded kiss of life was very soon approaching you

you thought jihoon wouldnt kiss you like he did in practices

bitch you thought

he kissed you on the lips and you were trying your best not to shoot your eyes open in shock

and of course,, the kiss of life received a standing ovation from the teachers who were really impressed

because most students dont actually kiss lmao

so you had to drag jihoon aside after yhe assesment and he had that stupid smile on his face

"cant you see i like you???"

you were stunned and also happy

but you had to keep your promis to your mom

"im sorry jihoon, i cant be your girlfriend"

boy he was shocked because he was never rejected

"why?"

"because," you bit your lip, contemplating wheter to tell jihoon

"because??"

"angels and demons cant be together," was all you said before leaving jihoon hanging

you and jihoon never talked until,,, halloween

which, you decided to go as yourself to your friend's halloween party at universal studios

you wore a plain white dress,, and wore a halo headband

pretty basic and simple but you really didnt care and just tried to dress nicely

apparently her parents rented the whole theme park for a private party lol

your friend was asking why you didnt bring jihoon along as your "plus one"

and you just shrugged,

"shit happened and we arent really talking anymore"

she got the hint immediately and stopped mentioning jihoon

meanwhile, jihoon was also dressed as himself

his hair was dyed a lighter blonde and wore a v neck black button up w ripped jeans,,,,,, and wore a choker on his neck too

basically all-black and looking good as heck

when he arrived every girl turned their heads and were shookt

like he barely needed to do anything to look THAT good

"a demon" was what he replied,, but he was laughing inside as people dont know his real identity

he was just enjoying the atmosphere of halloween where people dressed up and didnt care if their make up was shit,, its halloween anyway

he was just chilling and walking around w fellow demon!baejin when he saw someone carrying a girl in a white dress,,,

and that girl in a white dress seemed too familiar...

that when it clicked and he had to abandon baejin to save you

when he stopped the figure holding you, he ripped off its mask and revealed someone he wouldnt expect

lai guanlin

"guanlin, what are you doing?"

"i..i can explain--"

"explain what? drugging y/n and bringing her somewhere to hurt her?!" 

at this point jihoon was really really angry, his irises turned red

"who made you do this?”

“i can’t tell you--”

“im severing all ties with you if you dont tell me.”

“okay okay! seongwoo-hyung made me do it,, he just wanted to mess with you. nothing poisonous was fed to y/n! i swear!”

jihoon could only sigh and roll his eyes, as he motioned guanlin to come closer to him

and when he did, he twisted guanlin’s ear, making the younger groan in pain,,, while still holding onto you LOL

“help seongwoo-hyung again and not only your ears would be red,” jihoon snapped, as guanlin helped to load you on jihoon’s back

jihoon was contemplating where to bring you to,,, in this state where you were fast asleep

he decided to bring you back to your home

of course, with you on his back was pretty crazy

people were staring at him, thinking that he got a girl drunk lmao

but some people were noticing how cute he was and he’d just blush and try to hide his face??

meanwhile you were still sleeping, and jihoon made your head lean on his shoulder

and it was quite a scene bc a literal angel leaning on a literal demon’s shoulders??? p sadistic but cute at the same time

he knew the exact route to your house because it was almost like muscle memory,, he always came over to your house during the weekends when the both of you were childhood friends

when jihoon knocked on the door he was pretty nervous to how your mom would react

“y/n youre--jihoon?”

“sorry you have to see this, but y/n got drugged by someone... i saw her and i had to save her”

“ah, i see...” your mom was weirdly happy that no one but jihoon saved you??

“her room is the last bedroom to the right...” your mom pointed, “i think you should stay over, it’s quite late.”

“but i don’t have any clothes...” jihoon smiled nervously 

tbh how is he not tired after holding you for so long;)

“its fine! daniel has some clothes he cant wear anymore, you can use those.”

casually slips in olderbrother!daniel

jihoon was reminded of the times where your mom would take care of him p well, he was so touched that her heart didnt change over the years despite being a demon himself

“thank you mrs y/l/n, please rest early too!”

thats when your mom muttered something about him calling her mom

“excuse me?”

“yeah i will sleep soon, when daniel comes home.”

as jihoon entered your room, it was clean, and like a typical teenage girl’s room, with fairy lights and wall decorated with polariod pictures

after he settled you on your bed, he looked around your room and spotted a picture of the both of you amidst all the polariods

it was the both of you during your freshman year,, he took you to smoothie king because you were having a bad day

he smiled, but then sighed at the thought that your mother didnt allow you to date demons

but she was liking him so much she wanted yall to get married right there

all he could do was kiss your forehead and ruffle your hair

when he was about to leave he felt something tugging on his arm

“don’t go...” 

you were sleeptalking lmao

jihoon hence slept at the side on your bed, while holding your hand

the next morning, you woke up to a weight on your hand, and you saw a blonde head 

you were surprised so you screamed

and you woke jihoon in the process

“w-what”

“what are you doing here?”

“well...” jihoon scratched his head sheepishly 

“...”

“what-- y/n! i know im a demon but no, i would never do that”

“then?! what are you doing here, in my room, in your...outfit”

“because you told me to stay??” jihoon raised his eyebrows

shit he heard that, you cursed internally

“but thank you for saving me.” you blushed

“that’s it?” jihoon smirked, “no thank you kiss?”

“what?why?”

“because you are mine.”

shit i cringed so hard but smth jihoon would say tbh

“but my mom--”

he then interrupted your words with a kiss, which worked

“i can bet you my life saving that she is peeping at us right now,” jihoon whispered

and yes she was, peeking at the both of you and you could see her punching the air in victory

dating demon!jihoon is just like dating a huge fluffball

and takes revenges on your behalf if anyone dares to hurt/offend you

but sometimes hes hella r u d e 

like randomly flipping his hair and winking

and whenever he trips,,

“i think i fell for you”

like p l e a s e  s t o p

still has the innocence in him despite being a demon

like lighting up in front of candy

and buying you stuff in a non-evil way

your mother openly supports your relationship with jihoon

like 

“yes yall my son in law is jihoon,, isnt he handsome??”

and you had to shut her up everytime she starts talking about jihoon

sometimes you wonder if she forgot that youre her child and not jihoon

overall, a relationship most wouldn’t expect but still ship together

[woozistudie]

Tag Game

I was tagged by @cupcakewoozer thank you! I’m actually the worst omg this has been sitting in my emails to do for weeks rip

1st rule: tag 10 accounts you would like to know better

uhhhhhhhh I don’t really know people?

@hoshi-studies @dinoisbae @diamondlifestudies @studtaeingkim @ttstudys @hobifulstudies @caffeinated-weirdo @haostudy @nessa-svt @shhhstudy

~~~ just a gentle reminder that you don’t have to do this if you don’t want to!~~

2nd rule: bold the statements that are true

APPEARANCE:

I am 5'7" or taller

I wear glasses i only have to wear them to see things really really far away

I have at least one tattoo

I have at least one piercing

I have blonde hair

I have brown eyes

I have short hair kinda at least it’s like medium length but more on the shorter side

My abs are at least somewhat defined

I have or have had braces

PERSONALITY:

I love meeting new people yes and no. like i can be friendly and will definitely welcome new people into my life but i get super tired after. im introverted af

People tell me that I’m funny

Helping others with their problems is a big priority for me

I enjoy physical challenges

I enjoy mental challenges

I’m playfully rude with people I know well

I started saying something ironically and now I can’t stop saying it 

There is something I would change about my personality

ABILITY:

I can sing well i mean people have told me i can but i dont believe them at all

I can play an instrument

I can do over 30 pushups without stopping

I’m a fast runner

I can draw well people tell me i can so let’s just go with it

I have a good memory again a /kinda/ thing

I’m good at doing math in my head

I can hold my breath underwater for over a minute

I have beaten at least 2 people in arm wrestling

I know how to cook at least 3 meals from scratch

I know how to throw a proper punch

HOBBIES:

I enjoy playing sports played volleyball, lacrosse, basketball, and softball as a kid before focusing more on the arts

I’m on a sports team at my school or somewhere else not anymore rip

I’m in an orchestra or choir at my school or somewhere else i mean i was. i had to stop basically everything once i started university

I have learned a new song in the past week dat bts serendipity

I work out at least once a week yes, i do a lot of my own choreo stuff and work out at my school’s gym lol

I’ve gone for runs at least once a week in the warmer months

I have drawn something in the past month im trying to slowly get back into doing art again after like 2 years rip

I enjoy writing you have no idea how much i love writing omg

I do or have done martial arts

EXPERIENCES:

I have had my first kiss

I have had alcohol tbh i hate it lol

I have scored the winning goal in a sports game

I have watched an entire season of a TV show in one sitting who hasn’t

I have been at an overnight event

I have been in a taxi

I have been in the hospital or ER in the past year

I have beaten a video game in one day

I have visited another country

I have been to one of my favorite band’s concerts at the time they were a fave of mine but i don’t really listen to them anymore

RELATIONSHIPS:

I’m in a relationship

I have a crush on a celebrity

I have a crush on someone I know  

I have been in at least 3 relationships

I have never been in a relationship

I have asked someone out or admitted my feelings to them it was the biggest cliche ever please let the floor swallow me whole omg

I get crushes easily

I have had a crush on someone for over a year 

I have been in a relationship for at least a year

I have had feelings for a friend and this is the cliche i was talking about 

MY LIFE:

I have at least one person I consider a “best friend”

I live close to my school kinda, i mean its a 25 min drive to school but by bus it’s like basically 2 hours

My parents are still together

I have at least one sibling im the middle of 3

I live in the United States

There is snow right now where I live 

I have hung out with a friend in the past month

I have a smartphone

I have at least 15 CDs

I share my room with someone

RANDOM SHIT:

I have breakdanced

I know a person named Jamie

I have had a teacher with a last name that’s hard to pronounce

I have dyed my hair

I’m listening to one song on repeat right now 

I have punched someone in the past week

I know someone who has gone to jail

I have broken a bone

I have eaten a waffle today

I know what I want to do with my life

I speak at least 2 languages

I have made a new friend in the past year

[prettylittleliarsxxxx]

61 Thoughts I Had During 7x13 “Hold Your Piece”

enjoy the salty ride, my friends

also, again, i’m super hard on hanna again this week so if you like time jump hanna....look away. 

uh ok

serious question, why would spencer stay in the same place as that boardgame?? like I’d be crashing with someone, or crashing in the main house like ??? who wants to stay in the barn with that cursed thing

*whispers angrily instead of gently* why do none of them care about spencer

why is hanna such a bitchhhhhh i’m so tired of time jump hanna. like she’s basically au!hanna, this is not the hanna we knew sorry but she isn’t

ironically, they acknowledge blogs but don’t acknowledge the tumblr fanbase because we don’t have our lips suctioned to their asses

we know you guys can legally drink, sweet crickets

like I don’t even LIKE toby but like … .. .. ….. I actually thought he had so much potential with Yvonne

*groans at marco* WHY! DONT! THE! WRITERS! LET! THE! GIRLS! HAVE! CAREERS!

and why don’t they let them be happily single!!!!!! NOT ALL OF US ARE DYING TO BE IN RELATIONSHIPS

fun fact, i’ve been around computers all my life, my brothers are both in IT, my brother was practically teaching the college classes he attended because he knew it better than his professors, and like, i’m not at liberty to discuss some of the shit they may or may not have gotten into, but. they knew their way around a good hack, alright? i know snarf’ing is a thing but I’ve literally never heard anybody actually SAY it, not the amount these people do either

also i saw a post about how it’s hard to take a.d seriously because of this fucking phone and how spongebob squarepants it is and alksdghlakshg SERIOUSLY I SWEAR TO GOD ITS THE SAME FONT AND EVERYTHING

caleb she knows, you…you did that to her phone, way back when, remember? you literally recorded her

it means to fucking find the appendix, hanna

YASSSS PING PONG

ping pong is so fucking fun

for my brothers wedding photos, we had a photo of him, his wife, my other brother and me all dressed up and playing ping pong in the resort game room, it was great

god imagine if yvonne got to live. i mean really. fuuuuck you marlene

like i hate toby and this is actually super sweet

i can’t believe they ended one of the best ships they’ve had ever alkdshgalkheglkeh fuckin idiots

anyway lucas is shady as hell

i super doubt sydney is the other shooter but ok

you don’t have to say it like you’re cutting open a fucking cat, hanna

ew

spencer’s jeans tho damn

your mom*, spencer

i might not care about sydney or her useless character but god damn she looks good

spicy tuna roll

he actually

he actually said that

why are the straights like this

I mean it isn’t her fault as far as we know, emily

like I legit don’t care about sydney but chloe bridges !!! i love her

please, she’s just another pawn. she’s probably getting blackmailed to do this

kaldshg;laksghklhasdg again with the crappy capital letters while texting!!! “It’s Done.” oh my god

*giggle* oh my god you were CHUBBY??? *giggle*

*slams head on desk*

anyway i love aria and i’d die for her

look at these girls getting shit done

“don’t forget your yoga pants”

“namaste, bitch” laksdhglhs

does bryan holdman really think women talk to each other this way or

shut the fuck up caleb nobody likes you

lkhadslgkhalshg SPENCER YEEEE GET INT THERE WITH YOUR “I JUST SPENT THE WHOEL DAY WITH SOMEONE I REALLY LIKE” AHHAHAHAHAHHAHA

yeah because you weren’t good to her you sack of shit shut the fuck up

thank god for that gas attack

once again hanna has to put aside her career for a man what a shock

on super girl this week, two lesbians were talking about their firsts and it was a life or death situation but nobody died

talking about firsts with someone doesn’t have to conclude in death, writers, take note

like this is all kinds of bullshit tbh

fuck marlene king

lol when did caleb start caring about her career? was it when he was banging her best friend or???

like this is all hanna ever wanted, why won’t the writers let her have it

shut the fuck up hanna you’re such a bitch jesus christ

all YOU, hanna, had to do was show up to a fucking investment meeting. you didn’t get to do it because YOUR boyfriend FUCKED UP you dumb wench

and let us not forget, HANNA, your mistake of going fucking rogue is what ended up almost KILLING SPENCER so shut your fucking mouth

i’m 10/10 more emotional about toby and yvonne than i am about caleb lol

so sabrina just. disappears off screen. great.

also can you fucking believe ezra is leaving aria to run his fucking business

so nicole looks like hell, is she gonna die too?

aklsdghalkhglkha marco tho “ugh that’s not good” aldkshglh

i was gonna ask what the point of this is but obviously that’s gonna be rollin’s finger

[lawlliets]

personal post / dont feel the need to read or reply im just venting abt myself and my life and my head and its super super SUPER SUPER long and i have nowhere else to vent besides this website and if youre wondering its just me venting about my anxiety and my life and myself, nothing else