#intergenerational trauma

[spiderversegf]

intergenerational trauma has me losing my mind bc it’ll have you looking at your mama like “well i woulda been batshit crazy if i was raised by her mama too.” and then you look at your grandma and you’re like “well i woulda been batshit crazy if i was raised by her mama too!” and rinse and repeat

[lesbianjudasiscariot]

He Made Me In His Image

The Woman Destroyed - Simone de Beauvoir / Seventeen Going Under - Sam Fender / The Cruel Prince - Holly Black / Swan - Nicole Dollanganger / Elektra - Sophokles tr. Anne Carson / Sun Bleached Flies - Ethel Cain

[mad-girlslove-song]

when ethel cain said “i tried to be good am i no good am i no good am i no good” which started with her self-loathing after being abused by her father and neil perry said “i was good. i was really good” and then he killed himself because he knew that he would never be good enough for his father

[historic-meme]

Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day. This whole week l have been thinking alot about the Holocaust. So last night I re-read maus. One panel really stuck out to me during this reading. For context this is in Maus 2 when Art is talking to his therapist, a Holocaust survivor, about how he feels he could never measure up to his father who survived Auschwitz. At this point in the story his father had already past. May his memory be a blessing.

The dialogue, “but you weren’t in Auschwitz. You were in Rego Park,” hit me like a punch to the chest. I have no better way to explain the paradoxical guilt I felt and continue to feel as the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor. I did not live during the Holocaust. It had ended before my grandmother reached eighteen years old. And yet, the Shoah seems to loom over me. Forever a reminder, that I am alive by sheer luck. My great grandfather’s parents as well as two of his brothers were murdered in Auschwitz. My great grandmother’s twin sister was also murdered in the Holocaust. Despite hours of research, I still have no idea where exactly she died.

Using the term guilty for what I feel doesn’t seem exactly right but there is no better word in the English language. Maybe if I was smarter or more articulate I could find better words.

A key theme of this chapter is intergenerational trauma. This is the same chapter that has this iconic image.

On this Holocaust Remembrance Day, I simply want to acknowledge the real and extremely painful intergenerational trauma and inherited survivors guilt felt by descendants of Jewish survivors. I know I struggled in the past with feeling like I even have any right to feel this way considering I am three generations removed from any of my family that were murdered in the Holocaust. If any other Jews struggle with thoughts like this, I want to assure you that your feelings are valid and real. Intergenerational trauma is complicated and the feelings that come with it don’t simply disappear once a certain number of generations from the event pass.

This post is specifically about the Holocaust and jewish intergenerational trauma stemming from our persecution and genocide. If this post resonates with you as a non-Jew who has intergenerational trauma I am glad, but please do not derail this post.

[m--bloop]

Intergenerational trauma / mental illness

The Sopranos (6x17) / Esquire Hereditary review / Moonlight / My Grandmother's Hands by Resmaa Menakem / Pachinko (1x01) / I Love You, Honeybear (Father John Misty) / Russian Doll (2x04) / Doctor Sleep / Bojack Horseman (2x01)

[lurkingshan]

I have caught up through episode 8 of TsukuTabe and I really cannot contain my emotion about Kasuga's arc with her family in these episodes, so I am here to scream. That was so fucking beautiful. This has to be one of my favorite depictions of breaking the cycle of family trauma that I have ever seen.

I loved how efficiently the show established everything we needed to know about Kasuga's father with just a few lines of dialogue over the phone. The way he began the conversation by trying to shame her, the way he started making demands without asking her a single question about her life or how she was doing, the way he casually said "Akira is in the prime of his life" while tacitly dismissing any worth or value Kasuga's own life as a single woman might hold. With just that one conversation we knew exactly who that man is and why Kasuga has tried to build her own life in solitude rather than continue to live with him.

And her conversation with Nagumo gave us even more insight into how she was raised that fills in some context about the way she thinks about food and why taking pleasure in her meals is such a big deal for her. Kasuga's family deprived her of food (love), and so it's no wonder that meeting someone like Nomoto, who was so determined to give her food (love), would be such a life altering event for her, and finally give her the sense of safety she has never had.

I loved, too, that the show delivered some firm commentary on the way women are subjugated in heterosexual marriages and forced to serve their husband’s family like indentured slaves, particularly in many Asian cultures. Kasuga was very affected by seeing her mother live that way, and you could see she is carrying guilt about leaving this burden to her mother. But ultimately, she cannot control her mother's choices or fix her mistakes, she can only save herself from repeating them. And she found the strength within herself to do it, even though it must have been terrifying to take that leap.

The way that Kasuga drew that boundary with her father was a Very Big Deal in her cultural context, and I loved that the show drove that point home by having Kasuga confess to Nomoto about her decision and express her fear of being judged. She knows she will absolutely be cast as a bad daughter and judged harshly by most people who find out she has cut ties with her father, and she needed Nomoto to reassure her once again that their relationship is a safe place for her. She needed Nomoto to reassure her that she is her family now and she will always be on her side. And of course Nomoto did exactly that, and we got to end this very emotional episode with a Kasuga who is bravely building the life she wants for herself with the love and support of her chosen family.

[gothgleek]

[davidaugust]

👵👧📖

[mad-girlslove-song]

"my mother" by lea jane

[shadeslayer]

made another, longer, zine <3 this one is about ndn stuff. i thought back on what was smth i explain to ppl a lot irl and one thing is my frustration with the call to tradition in ntv circles and my new understanding of ntv politics and why many ndns ive met irl have been conservatives. hope its understandable, just been enjoying getting out my thoughts in this format!

as well - i dont think i made it fully clear. but one thing i want to say here is that many tribes are wrong to not pursue solidarity with other marginalized usamericans, but i understand more where that feeling comes from after studying & working in native history/law/research. its one of our biggest obstacles to change is the way tribes refuse to align w other usamericans, even refusing to align w other tribes bc of decades centuries old conflicts that we still hold on to the grudges of

you can get this (and my prev zine, FEMME) on my itch.io for free but donations are encouraged <3

[the-anastasia]

Colonized communities right now.

[punkeropercyjackson]

It is beyond dumb and annoying as fuck when people look at characters who're in intergenerational friendships and immediately jump to pedopjacking the older character even if their dynamic is healthy because it blatantly overlooks WHY kids and adults being close friends can be bad.It's not a problem on it's own,the problem is a lot adults don't actually care about kids or are fucking ped0s and the solution isn't not let them interact except relatives fullstop,it's to teach younger how to identify predators so they can stay away from them and pretty much nobody who's insistent on the thing i'm talking about does it!In latino cultures like mine,it's normalized for children and older folks to be close even with no blood relations to form a stronger and safer community and it's also normalized to tell kids that it's wrong for adults to view them sexually(admitedly,this is sadly not universal but there's tons of latino regions where pedophiles are considered not people)

Kids and adults CAN have real friendships but it's important for the adults in them to establish proper boundries and not use the younger person as a therapist and in fact,it should be the other way around because it's the job of older people to be positive figures in younger ones lives they can count on and since i'm an eldest sibling who's always gotten along with their little siblings,i enjoy hanging out with and taking care of younger people and not expecting adult behavior from them because that's what my s/os and adult friends are for!It's also a personal thing for me because i got bullied growing up and had absolute ass adults all around me so this is my way of breaking the cycle of abuse by being the person for my bio siblings and my intergenerational friends i wished i'd had and i see the latter as my siblings too(and vice versa)since it's a culture thing i was raised in to see your friends as the same as family

'Why would an adult be close friends with a kid?That's weird!'Because kids are people with feelings and personalities of their own and not 'puritans' or 'stupid' or 'losers' or 'taking up space' or 'should know better even if they weren't taught better' and some of us reacted to experiencing child abuse by growing up to care about kids because we were once them too and the fact that you'd rather believe nobody could ever love a child in a familial way without abusive intentions says a lot about you with how you treat them in general,hope this fucking helps bitch!!!!

[waitmyturtles]

I was liveblogging episode 10 of Bad Buddy last night in desperate fury, and one of my posts honed in on Dissaya talking about "saving face".

As what ALWAYS HAPPENS whenever I'm watching and/or thinking about Bad Buddy, I had a further realization (this time while showering).

That hiding and saving face that Dissaya is talking about here....

"Saving face" is an automatic given, a structural social component of Asian life. I don't know an Asian culture that isn't at least partly centered on its citizens "saving face" at any given moment of time. "Saving face" is how Asian families stay together through the absolute worst of familial trauma (the news and the shame, say, of having a child run away from home would likely be hidden from friends and extended family so that a nuclear family could "save face"). Saving face is why Japanese and South Korean business workers show little to no emotion in the workplace -- it would be an embarrassment for them, AND for the company, if outbursts were to happen. Saving face is a modicum by which collectivist societies can maintain control over behavioral outbursts that may disrupt a general flow of life. (Filial piety is another example of an automatic social given.)

When Ming and Dissaya were in high school and dating, and Ming stole Dissaya's scholarship -- Dissaya had to figure out how to save face from the embarrassment of losing the scholarship, and her opportunity to go to university.

Ming stole the scholarship, because he had to save face for himself, AND for his father (AND, ostensibly, for his entire nuclear family), as it would have been a honor unto his family for Ming to go to university.

So those are the layers of saving face for Pat's and Pran's parental generation.

How does intergenerational trauma work? Those demands for saving face aren't just passed ONTO the children -- onto Pat and Pran.

Pat and Pran are expected to embody those same responsibilities. That's why Ming continually gets angry with Pat throughout the series about lying, about the secrets, about the architecture play and about rugby practice. And Dissaya says as much to Pran before her confrontation with Ming -- how could Pran date Pat? How could Pran forget "to save [Dissaya's] reputation?"

But most importantly to me, what Dissaya says above -- what really guts me as both an Asian child, and as an Asian parent...

... is that the hiding and saving face that Dissaya is referring to above?

She's also talking about the information that Ming and Dissaya have hidden from Pat and Pran themselves.

PAT AND PRAN'S OWN PARENTS were saving THEIR faces TO THEIR SONS. So that their OWN CHILDREN would respect them.

Ming and Dissaya needed to lie and to save face to Pat and Pran, so that Pat and Pran wouldn't stray from their loyalties to their families. Pat and Pran's OWN BEHAVIOR needed to be CONTROLLED by their families, so that Pat and Pran wouldn't bring embarrassment or disrespect to Ming and Dissaya -- so that THEN, Ming and Dissaya could keep up the façade of their family battle to save themselves from the individual embarrassment they had brought upon themselves and each other in high school. We don't even know if Ming's father had known that Ming stole the scholarship. What if Grandfather Jindapat knew that Ming had stolen the scholarship? Would that have brought shame to the family? Likely.

Episode 10 is SO heart-wrenching and painful for so many reasons. But especially to see the guys continue to hear, in conversation after conversation, from Uncle Chai to their high school teacher, the TRUTH of the hatred between Ming and Dissaya, and how Pat's and Pran's childhood understanding of the battle was based on lie after lie -- you could see the confusion, trauma, and anger building. The anger that bubbled out as Pat stormed out of his house. And the trauma that flowed out from Pran on the rooftop before the boys ran away.

The boys were used as pawns in a family fight that never needed to go as far as it did. The boys realized that.

"I had to hate Pran... because of you?"

It was because Ming and Dissaya were far more concerned about saving face than about the happiness of their sons.

[incarnateangelique]

My biggest personality flaw :

Realizing that I would stan every male protagonist if they were a girl.

(Jon Snow) Joan Snow would have made me sick with how she never felt at home in the place she was

(Harry Potter) Hari Potter would be a sad girl , failure icon, and every adult male figure project their issues onto

(Light Yagami) Lucia Yagami would be a gone girl, girl boss, femcel icon with a God complex and female rage

(Eren Yeager) Eden Yeager; God forbid a girl have goals and homicidal rage and intergenerational trauma.

(Lucerys Velaryon) Lucerys/ Lucerra Velaryon would be a girl trying her best/ dying too soon by male obsession

(Jacaerys Velaryon) Jacaera/ Jaenora Velaryon had potential but never made it.

The author fumbled with them

[scarlet--wiccan]

Do you think Billy and Tommy suffer from intergenerational trauma ? Also we never see Billy and Tommy interact with Max. If you could alter their origins what would you do ?

(You don’t have to answer all these questions sorry lol)

When we talk about intergenerational trauma, we are usually referring to trauma which persists in our cultural memories, or to trauma responses which become cyclical patterns in our families. One of the things that's really interesting about this family of characters is that none of them were raised by their birth parents or grew up with a complete knowledge of/relationship to their cultural heritage. This is slightly less true now for Wanda and Pietro, post-retcon, but my point is that the way these people have inherited intergenerational trauma is typically non-linear.

I tend to get in trouble for saying this, but I think that Billy and Tommy's reincarnation makes the most sense as a metaphor for interracial adoption. Specifically, their relationship to Wanda, their Romani heritage, and their family history maps fairly well to that experience. So, while the course of their lives has been impacted by the trauma of past generations in a very material way-- and there is something to be said for epigenetics-- they may not have internalized the Maximoff family's intergenerational trauma in the way that you're picturing. The nature of their existence and upbringing creates its own traumas and fractured identities, but a lot of what they've inherited is going manifest in the course of processing new information about their background as young adults-- not to mention the ramifications of being publicly known as Wanda's children in a post-Decimation world.

I am not an adoptee, so this is not my experience to speak on, and you can take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but I am a person of mixed Romani heritage, and family separation and cultural disruption in the wake of WWII are big parts of my inherited trauma. That's part of why I find the Maximoffs-- Billy and Tommy included-- so relatable, because that's a specific form of cultural trauma that they have had to endure in every generation, and in ways that reflect multiple periods of Romani history. Part of why I like to really emphasize the fact that Billy and Tommy are Romani characters is because their positionality and way of arriving at Roma identity adds nuance and diversity to Romani representation. I think the spectrum of Romani cultural & ethnic identity is something that a lot of comic writers and fans just don't understand, but I think that digging in to how Billy, Tommy, and Luna relate to those identities would be a really good, organic way to have those conversations in the text and bring a more authentic understanding of the subject to readers. But you absolutely need a Romani writer to do it, and that's why they need to start hiring us!!!!!

I'd also like to point something out that I don't think anybody really talks about-- the current version of Wanda and Pietro's origin story and how they got their powers reflects the real history of human experimentation, reproductive rights violations, and child abductions that have plagued Romani communities for a long time, especially in mid-century Europe. Their "mutations" are a product of that violence, and the fact that Billy and Tommy inherited those mutations reflects the medical and genetic legacies of this racial trauma. This is presented in direct contrast and conversation with the Maximoffs' magical heritage as witches, which is is a racial stereotype that here is subverted as a positive, enduring legacy of cultural empowerment and survival.

Of course, the text itself does not fully commit to these ideas on paper, but my point is that when you have the knowledge and you're invested in how Romani people are imagined and portrayed in this world, it's a very rich text!!! I love comics and I love these characters! There's so much to talk about!

Since you did mention Magneto, I want to note that Wanda and Pietro's relationship to his & Magda's history and their inherited trauma is also non-linear, and has shifted several times based on retcons and varying character treatments. There's no doubt that they have a lot of baggage, but again, it's a situation where they didn't grow up as children of Holocaust survivors, so the way they process it might just be different. I certainly do think that the Holocaust and the war are part of their cultural memory, even if we don't know how much the Maximoffs were directly affected. Billy and Tommy are more removed from Magneto in this sense, but it should go without saying that one or both of them are Jewish and would already have a connection to that history through their foster/birth families.