#just without plot holes and retcons

[sapphikatara]

controversial take but disney stop the live action remakes and instead remake tinkerbell for theaters in higher quality and without the plot holes and retcons

[sockmonstergotstyle]

Jensen ackles get Dean Winchester out of that prequel show right now or so help me

[penguwastaken]

Nobody Understands Mukuro Ikusaba (aka Mukuro Character Analysis)

...except for the people that do (lol).

But first I want to clarify what I mean by this title and why I even wrote this thread in the first place. Mukuro is my second favorite Danganronpa character, only beaten out by Kyoko. There's a lot of reasons why I really like Mukuro, but one of them is her writing.

I think she's one of the best written characters in the series. But unfortunately, she also happens to be one of the most misunderstood characters as well. Not even by the people who don't like her, but also by her own fans.

"Mukuro has incestuous feelings for Junko" "Danganronpa 3 retconned her character" "Mukuro was just a plot device" These are all claims that baffle me because simply just consuming the media will say otherwise.

To many, Mukuro is either a one note incest freak or a pure innocent cinnamon roll who did nothing wrong and both of those interpretations are wildly incorrect. I've been meaning to write this post for a while, but we're finally here.

Nobody understands Mukuro Ikusaba (a ""🧵"") (Spoiler warning for the entire series)

Story Overview

We don't actually know too much about Mukuro's backstory aside from the fact that at a young age, she was separated from her younger twin sister Junko. Before being taken away, she claims that she was homeless and after she was taken she was forced to become a member of the military group Fenrir.

So clearly Mukuro never really had the chance to have a normal life, and more importantly: never had a chance to feel the care of another person.

Her sister, who Mukuro had not seen in years, suddenly got in contact with her and called Mukuro over to participate in her plan to overthrow Hope's Peak Academy (and the world). Mukuro, who already felt bad for losing her sister and was desperate for any kind of affection, accepted and began working for Junko.

Junko took advantage of Mukuro's desperation and had her basically work as a servant to her plans. She started by having Mukuro wipe out the entirety of a middle school in order to prove Mukuro's skills and how far Mukuro would go for her.

With that out of her way, Junko made Mukuro obey like her servant in order to overthrow Hope's Peak and cause the tragedy. Mukuro did so without batting an eye and disregarding any second thoughts she might have had, all while facing Junko's abuse.

During her time attending Hope's Peak, Mukuro met Makoto Naegi. Unlike most of her classmates, Makoto was friendly to her and showed her compassion. This confused her as we already established that Mukuro wasn't used to affection. Because of this and her tendency to latch onto anyone who shows her even an ounce of care, she began to develop feelings for Makoto (that even Junko acknowledged).

"In the past two years, Ikusaba had gained an interest in the world beyond her sister. And in that world, Makoto Naegi--the first person who smiled at her and bridged the gap between her and the world--had become like a sapling of sincerity taking root in her heart." -Danganronpa IF confirming Mukuro's feelings for Makoto

"Upupupu… I wonder what kind of fun you were having in the infirmary? Did you take care of your rival in love, or did you wish them a happy marriage? Either way, don't you think our nice guy Naegi standing side-by-side with Kirigiri makes for a wonderful picture? If this were a thriller, they'd be the last surviving couple!" "Upupupupu… Or how about just killing all of the others? If everyone but you and Naegi die, then the two of you can spend the rest of your student lives together! After all, we can't even hold a trial if there's only two people left. Maybe it'll be best if you just hole up here, safe in the building forever!" "And what're you going to do once he goes back to his old self? It's not as if you were dating Naegi, right? You were just watching him from afar all this time! Now this is a shock. You can shoot right through people's heads and hearts without even blinking, but you can't even steal away some skinny little boy's heart! You want me to tell you who Naegi had a crush on before his memories were erased? Upupupupu…" -Junko teasing Mukuro about her feelings as she aids Makoto in Danganronpa IF

Once the tragedy occured, Mukuro was locked inside of Hope's Peak with Junko and the rest of their classmates and she helped orchestrate the killing game. She disguised herself as Junko, under the impression that Junko would fake her death and they could spend the rest of the game together.

This is when the seeds of doubt began to sprout inside of Mukuro. I wouldn't say that she necessarily began to go against her sister, but she definitely was starting to get a little more hesitant.

"It was only recently that she began to question her mindset. Hearing about this plan from Junko and watching the world burn at the hands of people in Monobear masks did nothing to sway her, but when she heard that Junko was intending to plunge Naegi and the others into a game of murder, something within her began to move. The seed of doubt soon took root, sprouting into a thorny vine that twisted around her feet. And the moment she met her friends for the first time under the identity of Junko Enoshima and realized their memories were truly gone, the vines quickly tightened around her ankles." -Danganronpa IF describing Mukuro's feelings when the killing game began

To Makoto and the player who are under the impression that this is Junko, they assume that she's referring to not wanting to be a model anymore. But given her backstory of never being able to live a normal life and always having to fend for herself or follow the orders of others, we can infer what she actually means. She expresses disappointment in the fact that she never really had a chance to do what she wanted.

This all culminates in the moment where Junko was supposed to fake the death of Mukuro, but that isn't what happened. Instead, Junko killed Mukuro and betrayed her. To say that Junko felt no remorse from this action would be a lie, however. Junko only did this because she knew it would hurt both of them.

...but what if that wasn't what happened? What if Mukuro wasn't killed? What would happen then? That brings us to:

Danganronpa IF

Danganronpa IF answers the hypothetical question of what if Mukuro survived Junko's attack. Of course this means it isn't canon, but due to Kodaka being involved with its creation and its existence as an event that hypothetically could have happened, it is canon compliant. This means that while the events didn't happen in canon, they could have and things like characterization are all accurate. Think of it like an extended free time event. While the events themselves aren't canon, the things they say and imply are. I'll also be referencing Danganronpa IF a lot because since it's told from Mukuro's perspective, it gives a lot of insight on her thought process.

After regaining his memories, Makoto recognizes and rescues Mukuro seconds before her would-be death and he gets impaled by one of the spears. Mukuro rushes to save him, abandoning her disguise and goal.

During this time, Mukuro does a lot of thinking. Why did Junko try to kill her? For all the time they've been working together, Mukuro always assumed that her job was to prop Junko up and help her achieve despair.

It turns out that Junko didn't want Mukuro to obey Junko's every order, Junko wanted Mukuro to retaliate. She didn't want Mukuro to submit to her, but instead to fight back.

With this Mukuro changes her mind, choosing to fight Junko instead of assisting her. Not because she's on the side of hope, she never cared about hope or despair, but because she only wants what's best for the only person in her life who cared for her.

"'That's why… I'll take responsibility. I'll make you happy, Junko . I'll make youdespair. I'll save Naegi-kun… I'll make sure none of our friends die. I'll get them all out of here. And I'll kill every last one of the ones on the outside. You planned this for years and killed so many people to make this work… so I'll destroy every last trace of it.' She was not driven by resentment at the sister who abandoned her. Ikusaba would do all this for her sister's sake." -Mukuro changing her approach to making Junko happy in Danganronpa IF

Who is Mukuro Ikusaba?

Now this is the part where I finally exit the synopsis phase and finally get into the character analysis, explaining why Mukuro acts the way she does in all entries.

Now, I want to begin with a common critique of Mukuro's character, specifically one that's attributed to Danganronpa 3. The one that says that Mukuro's behavior is not only out of character, but also claims that she has romantic feelings for her sister.

First point out of the way, Mukuro's blushy and flustered attitude is nothing new when it comes to her character. It's been an aspect of her since the very beginning of her characterization.

"'I don’t know if… she attracts despair, or despair attracts her, but… she’s lived her whole life with despair by her side. She lived while immersed in despair. That’s why she began looking for despair in others; she began to enjoy pushing people into despair. But you know… that’s normal. It’s no different than someone cursed by misfortune falling into hatred for those who are better off than them. But what’s special about her was that… she learned to enjoy inflicting despair upon herself. That’s how the link to despair began: as she chased down despair, she pushed it onto others along the way. Doing so caused her to crave falling into despair even more… and because of that chain to despair, the Ultimate Despair was born.' While she spoke, it was like she fell into a fever; the expressions on her face slowly turned into ecstasy. It was so completely absurd that it would have been difficult for anybody to think of it as anything but a joke, but I could tell that this was real. It might have been the hazy memories of Junko Enoshima inside me that led to that conclusion. 'You don’t get it right? That’s fair, I don’t think anybody could… But you know, only I can understand it…' Consumed by ecstasy, even Ikusaba’s breathing had begun to turn ragged." -Mukuro describing Junko in Danganronpa Zero

The second (and more important) point to address is the one that Mukuro holds some kind of romantic feelings for her sister. Now, in all honestly, I can't hold this against anyone for thinking this even if I think it's a wild misinterpretation of her behavior. Danganronpa has a track record of using incest for comedic effect (to always poor results). However, Mukuro's relationship with Junko is not used to comedic effect and it's portrayed in a negative light. Not only that, we know that Mukuro does not enjoy behaving that way.

"'She hoped that, perhaps her sister on the screen would say something like 'Not! You seriously thought I'd say something that sappy? Jeez, you're annoying! Can't you just disappear forever or something?'. She hoped that Junko might criticizeher and call her useless. Ikusaba was no masochist, but she would have preferred to hear scornful laughter and be shot at rather than continue to endure this pain." -Danganronpa IF explaining Mukuro's "masochism"

Mukuro doesn't behave the way she does because she has feelings for Junko, she does so because she believes that's how Junko wants her to behave. Danganronpa Zero and IF makes it clear that Mukuro was wrong about how Junko wanted her to behave.

“'You don’t get it right? That’s fair, I don’t think anybody could… But you know, only I can understand it…' Consumed by ecstasy, even Ikusaba’s breathing had begun to turn ragged. 'Only I’m able to understand her… That’s why she needs me. She still hasn’t realized it, but… maybe she’s only pretending not to. Ufu… It’s because she’s so shy. Ufufufu…'” -Mukuro explaining that Junko needs her in Danganronpa Zero

"Ikusaba knew that not even she herself was her own ally. After all, despite the fact that Junko had betrayed her and very nearly killed her, Ikusaba still believed that she was the only one who could understand her little sister. And that was why she felt that she had to protect her. That's right… you were just being you, Junko. You just wanted despair, right? It's because you love me. You wanted to kill me and fall into despair. That must have been it" -Mukuro in denial in Danganronpa IF

"Ikusaba believed that she alone could understand the despair known as Junko Enoshima. It was a ludicrous notion. The moment Junko said, 'I love you', Ikusaba realized--to her agony--that she never truly understood her sister. Only now had she come to realize Junko's feelings." -Mukuro realizing that she didn't understand Junko in Danganronpa IF

Because of Mukuro's incorrect interpretation of understanding Junko, Mukuro believes that Junko expects her to respond to her abuse with acceptance and masochism. Even if she was uncomfortable to, as long as it made Junko happy, that's what mattered. Of course, we learn that Junko wanted Mukuro to respond her abuse with retaliation, and as soon as Mukuro realizes that her behavior immediately shifts. Mukuro holds a great deal of admiration for Junko, so much so that she only wants to do what would please Junko the most.

She does not have romantic feelings for her sister and to say so misses the point entirely. She isn't behaving that way because she's a masochist, she behaves that way because she believes it's how she's expected to, even if she's visibly uncomfortable. Once she learns this isn't what's expected, she immediately changes course.

Danganronpa 3 also has official relationship charts that depict the relationship between characters. In this chart, crushes or explicitly shown romantic feelings are labeled with a heart (as seen with Kazuichi's attraction to Sonia or Toko's attraction to Byakuya). Mukuro's relationship does NOT feature this heart. You would think that if Mukuro's very obvious admiration towards Junko was romantic it would have a heart, but it doesn't because it isn't. If what I said before didn't convince you, I think this itself is proof enough.

Mukuro's admiration doesn't extend to just Junko though. Due to her unfortunate upbringing, Mukuro has a tendency to get attached to anyone who shows her the affection she's desperate for. So much so that her behavior changes completely around the people she cares about.

"The mass of monochrome spun round and round, making it look as though they were projecting a hypnotic image from three directions, but Ikusaba remained expressionless. In fact, the bizarre sight unfolding before her compelled the Super High School Level Soldier to regain her focus. She was an entirely different person from the girl who had panicked at Naegi's injury in the gymnasium." -Mukuro while fighting in Danganronpa IF, behaving completely differently from when she panicked over Makoto's injury

"Not only that, if anyone who knew her as the Super High School Level Soldier and mercenary were to see her now, the difference in her attitude might even make her look like another person altogether. And Monobear continued to drive the girl into a corner." -Mukuro panicking over Makoto's injury in Danganronpa IF

"The mask of ice she wore around others was entirely unlike the face she showed her sister, making it almost seem as though she had multiple personalities." -Danganronpa IF explaining that Mukuro's behavior around Junko is different from her typical icey expression

This is why around most people, Mukuro has a pretty blank expression. However when she's around Makoto or Junko, the two people who she cares about, she displays a much more soft and emotional side.

That being said, an often overlooked aspect of Mukuro is that she actually has a slight ego and is proud of her skill. This is especially obvious in her fight with Peko in Danganronpa 3. Of course, if I spent years in the military without getting a single scratch, I'd probably have an ego too.

Mukuro is also capable of turning off her feelings and going into a "killing machine mode" whenever the situation demands it, mostly when she's carrying out some mission. It's not because she doesn't feel bad for what she's doing or isn't having any second thoughts, it's that she pushes any doubts to the side to focus on getting the job done.

"In battlefields, where she made her home, her main mission was to kill and survive. And in that setting Ikusaba was invincible. She could put her own emotions on a leash in order to become a killing machine." -Danganronpa IF explaining how Mukuro is capable of ignoring her own feelings

"With a single whisper that was drowned out by the sound of gunfire, Ikusaba went completely silent. Thanks to her status as a member of Super High School Level Despair, her heart was filling with joy. And as if to offset the sudden surge of emotions, the sparkle in her eyes disappeared." -Mukuro turning her emotions off while fighting in Danganronpa IF

So Basically...

Due to her upbringing Mukuro is someone who gets attached to people easily, particularly those who give her attention. Junko took advantage of this to make Mukuro essentially act as her servant. Believing that Junko expected her to return the abuse she faced with enjoyment, she forced herself to do just that. Even if it made her uncomfortable, making her sister happy at her own expense is better than being alone. She's capable of turning off and ignoring her emotions to following orders when necessary and is generally a proud and skilled soldier, though she has a softer side that she only shows to people who she cares for.

That is who Mukuro Ikusaba is.

Conclusion

There's a lot of reasons I really like Mukuro. I think she's silly and cute and I like her singing voice. But I also think her characterization is really good in all of her appearances. I think a lot of the critiques made towards her (especially towards her appearance in Danganronpa 3) are misguided or just a result of her being misunderstood.

She's not a plot device or a character exclusively there to act as an extension of Junko. She's filled to the brim with character depth and interesting writing and has plenty of characterization on her own. I'll admit that her presence in Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc is a bit limited, however she doesn't just become an important character in four other entries without getting some kind of development.

Many think her characterization is inconsistent or different across entries, but I honestly think it couldn't be any MORE consistent. The only times where I'd say she acts out of character is in the comic anthologies, but those are non-canon media that's kinda known for flanderizing characters for the sake of comedy.

Basically, I like Mukuro. I hope I managed to change some minds or shed a new light on her to anyone who didn't before. And if you already liked her, I hope maybe I could make you appreciate her a bit more or just help you explain her in some way.

anyways follow me on twitter cough cough

Also special thanks to Twitter user @LKSixtyfour for their tweets about Mukuro's characterization, many helped me organize my thoughts to form the thread that you just read.

Edit: didn't make any changes to the post, just fixed some typos

[greater-than-the-sword]

90% of Star Wars discourse only exists because the series has plot holes, inconsistent characterization and poorly thought out worldbuilding and George Lucas wrote the chronological 2nd half before the chronological 1st half without having decided on his own lore, so you can debate 'til you're blue in the face about whether the jedi are evil and Obi Wan is a liar and Yoda is a manipulator but the bare facts are that all these takes are just headcanons and fanon which exist to reconcile fundamentally contradictory stories. These takes are totally retconned into the Original Trilogy from a series that was written later and you cannot be intellectually honest while using the Prequels to inform your interpretation of the OT in any way, shape, or form. I said what I said.

[rvb-canon-tuckington]

here are some "quick" rvb restoration thoughts before i go to bed that i may expand upon later, in no particular order:

this movie was ABOUT tucker but tucker is not in it. there is a tucker sized hole. we see tucker only a little bit more than we see donut, but tucker is still there the whole time!!! at the beginning, i was excited for the tucker whump, but does it count if not a single character reacts to the truly horrifying news that their friend has been controlled for a few months by eight or nine ais, at least two of which have tried to kill him and everyone you love before? like even if they had retconned red and blue teams being friends (which they didn't), you're telling me that we never get to see wash's reaction to this news? carolina's? two people who lost a different friend to this exact gruesome process of de-personing? no one ever tells carolina that tucker is in there and no one objects when tex goes to fucking decapitate him? like i get that caboose was the only person to see that tucker was actually still in there, and he can't really be trusted to communicate things clearly, but they could have even just included some sort of discussion where they decide that they think that tucker would rather be dead than be dragged along in this parody of life (and with the way the ais were torturing him, he probably would have agreed.)

speaking of caboose knowing that tucker is still in there - grif and simmons abandoning caboose rubbed me SO wrong. usually if a character is trying not to involve themselves, they'll "run away" to the nearest place to hide, not GET ON A SHIP TO FLY AWAY LEAVING CABOOSE TO DIE AT POSSESSED TUCKER'S HANDS. i get why they (the writers) did it, but that doesn't mean i have to like it lol

why weren't they FRIENDS ANYMORE

where was donut

what was that wash b-plot. what did the wash b-plot add?? what it did: make me feel weird about dr. grey's character, kill doc off screen, and make wash useless in the main plot. what it did not do: make sense. when did wash get injured post chorus? why is he hallucinating, period? why was he institutionalized? (and why is the room number the same as his prison number?) why did they spend so much time on it for it to have no real conclusion? they didn't need to have this weird "wash is hanging onto the past via doc" plot to have the carolina-wash-freelancer ghost heart-to-heart. (also i have never laughed so hard as when i saw the post pointing out that they left wyoming out bc neither my friend or i noticed lol) why wouldn't he know there was a manual way to activate the recovery beacon since he was LITERALLY recovery one? so many questions, no answers. what have you done to my boy, burnie.

the pacing was ATROCIOUS. nothing happened for the first half of the movie, a bunch of stuff happened in the second half, and none of it felt resolved.

where was donut

why was everyone separated at the beginning? why was no one worried about it? where was donut? where was carolina? why was no one worried about where tucker was? had caboose been the lone blue for the few months that tucker was gone and wash was hospitalized? genuinely, my friend and i thought that the reds and caboose had been mind wiped and dropped into their undisclosed locations without knowing why, and the plot was gonna be them all reuniting and piecing together what had happened and getting tucker back. alas.

it felt like it was the grif-simmons-caboose show, which was interesting because that's not a problem i feel like i've had before with this show. even if i saw less of a particular character than i wanted to. they usually have a pretty good balance of characters and this movie felt like they suddenly Realized how many characters they had and fumbled it.

i did actually really like the tex reveal that was BOSS i LOVED IT

i have more thoughts but this is far too long already so i'll save it for later lmao

[tobiasdrake]

Genuinely curious what the original plan for Android 16 was.

It's widely known that the plot of the Android arc changed multiple times over the course of the series. 19 and 20 were originally intended to be the arc's true villains. In fact, Trunks calls them out by serial number when he's first giving the infodump about his future.

This isn't a Viz-ism, either. He says "19 and 20" specifically in the original Japanese.

Those two Androids, not 17 and 18, are the ones ravaging his future. However, as is commonly known, Toriyama's editor former editor and currently a trusted friend Kazuhiko Torishima was unimpressed by the Androids' design.

The funny thing is, this isn't the only glaring plot hole that the abrupt shift in plot created. It's easy to pin down 20's flight to his lab as the moment Toriyama switched gears, because he's forced to bring in Bulma to rerail it onto the new story - creating another massive plot hole in the process regarding what Bulma knows.

See. In addition to Trunks clearly identifying 19 and 20 as the Androids, this scene three years in the past had another moment that becomes an issue later on. It's when Bulma says this:

See, Trunks has explained that Dr. Gero is creating the Androids as we speak and will set them upon everyone in three years' time. Bulma suggests having Shenron reveal the location of Gero's lab, and then they can all run off and gank him.

She gets voted down because Goku, Vegeta, and Tenshinhan are all super interested in fighting these Androids.

Goku tries to spin some guff about a moral reservation but he adds that in as an afterthought. His kneejerk is that he wants to fight. It's Krillin who ultimately succeeds in talking Bulma down, via some 4-D chess maneuvers against Vegeta.

Krillin's planning on using the Androids as a common cause to trick Vegeta into becoming one of the gang.

Which. Y'know. Goes off without a hitch, honestly. Krillin is a tactical genius and all-a y'all owe him respect. He manipulated Vegeta straight into that redemption arc.

In any case, this is where Trunks's warning leaves us: In three years' time, Dr. Gero will unleash 19 and 20 who will kill us all. If we knew where he was, we could do something about it, but the will to actually do that isn't there.

So.

Three years later, during the fight with 20, he uses Bulma as a distraction to make his escape. Upon rescuing her, Bulma's able to positively ID 20 as the doctor himself.

More than that, she knows exactly where he lives because he's a famous celebrity whose personal information gets talked about in the scientific community.

She just never brought it up before because no one ever said Dr. Gero was involved in any of this.

This is an even bigger HOOOOOOLY SHIT than the clear identification of the Androids' serial numbers. What Bulma knows flipped between these chapters.

So we make our way to Gero's lab to meet the arc's Actual Villains For Realsies, 17 and 18.

As a sidenote, not to be outdone in jankiness by Goku dropping the Senzu into a pocket dimension earlier, Toei has Dr. Gero's broken-off right hand occasionally regenerate by magic in this scene.

This arc is rough for everyone.

In any case, this brings us to the awakening of 16.

At this point in time, the retcon has finished taking effect; 17 and 18 are now retroactively the Androids from Trunks's future, but 16 is something different. Another Android that Trunks has never heard of before.

Dr. Gero practically pisses himself with terror when the prospect of 16 being awakened comes up.

In the same breath that Toriyama rewrites 17 and 18 to be the True Actual Villains For Realsies of the arc, he also introduces the enigmatic 16. All we know of him is that Gero believed he was a malfunctioning, uncontrollable failure whose awakening would threaten the whole planet.

The Twins question 16 about the true threat he represents.

But all he has to offer in response is this... eerie smile, as if he knows something he isn't sharing.

Answering "Are you going to kill us all" with a smug grin is fucking ominous. Shortly after, we learn that whatever 16's malfunction is, it scared Gero so much that he never made another of the same kind of thing that 16 is again.

What went so horribly wrong that it spooked Gero into trying out human base models and? It's worth noting that while Gero did go back to the mechanical design for 19, he considered the subsequent failures of 17 and 18 following whatever happened with 16 to be sufficient reason to can the Infinite Energy design entirely.

Android 16 is the most formidable design Gero ever created to kill Goku with. And he refused to ever make another like him again.

Current Dragon Ball lore, per interviews with Toriyama, say that he didn't want 16 released because 16 has sentimental value to him. But that doesn't explain why he didn't make other Androids like 16, and these panels themselves are telling a very different story. They're hyping up the mystery of 16 to be the true ultimate threat of this arc - At least, once he finally gets a chance to meet his one true adversary.

However, this doesn't last. Torishima didn't like the Twins as villains either so Cell was created instead. It was later revealed that 16 was very strong and also has a bomb in his chest that would wipe out a small portion of the countryside.

But the nature of this terrifying and enigmatic threat to the planet sure to unfold if 16 awakens, something so terrible that Gero was afraid of ever making an Android like 16 again, would be lost to the cutting room floor.

[comicaurora]

How do you ballance lore dumps and exposition. Whenever I see a friend ommiting a lore dump, it feels the rest of the story gets a massive plot hole, where if you state it later it feels like a lazy retcon.

I try to avoid lore dumps if possible, because they tend to feel like textbook reading and are very easy for me to skip over, leaving me subsequently confused when the information buried in the lore dump becomes relevant. In my experience, if the audience absolutely needs information in order for the plot to make sense, there are ways to communicate it in-story that aren't just a wall of text - even if it's just "letting a character deliver the wall of text in a way that works for them."

Lore dumps and "as you know" dialogue are frowned upon because they disrupt immersion, typically because they're a conversation between two characters who should both know this fundamental truth of their world and thus have no reason to state it plainly for a hypothetical third party. But there are plenty of ways to frame a conversation that communicate that information without having to go with "as you know-" or "we both know that-", like

A knowledgeable character explains to an ignorant character why the ignorant character's plan or idea won't work (so they have a legitimate reason to provide that information and the other character isn't just sitting passively and absorbing the information)

Two characters reminisce about a situation they both remember rather differently

A character makes an oblique reference to something without providing further detail (because why would they reference more detail when everybody present knows what they're talking about), and another character responds with a telling emotional reaction that tells the audience at least how they feel about that thing and implies more information about it (like that the thing was Very Bad And Upsetting, and maybe they'll even explain why if another character notices and asks)

Two experts in a fictional field get really into the weeds about how fascinating something they're working on is

Two experts in a fictional field have a furious argument about a disagreement they're having, dropping lore tidbits the whole time

An expert in a fictional field gets really excited about explaining something cool to anyone who'll listen

A villain monologues about the brilliance of their evil plan

Even in the space of exposition, there are ways to let a character's dialogue reveal key information without making it a wall of text, and it mostly centers around making the character want to provide that information, turning it into a character conversation rather than a hand-of-the-author situation.

I've also found that the process of planting and payoff can be strengthened significantly if the information planted is planted multiple times in different ways, rather than just being exposited. If a lore drop is necessary for a plot point to make sense, just saying it once and then leaving it alone will not necessarily work to get the audience aware of its true meaning, since until the information is actually relevant in the story the audience is liable to forget about it or file it very far back in their heads. Exposition and lore dumps need to be connected to something tangible in-story for the audience to get a feel for, or they're basically just more pointless flavor text.

For instance, when the mechanics of divine incarnations needed to be planted, I worked them in in a few different ways - first, showing it with no further explanation -

then showing it in a few different ways, establishing that the appearance of a god can change over time -

then showing that gods have a degree of direct control over their incarnation's physical appearance even outside of that -

all so that when a god did THIS, nobody was confused as to how.

Because it was kind of important that this scene hit the way I wanted it to. I needed the reaction of "OH SHIT" instead of "wait that's bs how did he do that" and that meant I needed the audience to have just enough intuitive understanding of what divine incarnations could and couldn't do for this to make sense.

It's a delicate balance, but in my experience a slow build is better and more effective than an all-at-once lore dump.

[stoat-party]

Evaluating Which Details Pose Continuity Issues (yeah, it’s long, sorry)

I’m being relentlessly annoyed by (some) people mad at the show and by (some) people mad at people mad at the show, so let’s clear up where the issues are and aren’t so we’re not just talking over each other here.

Destroying the Strip

Obviously not a retcon. Retcons refer to previously-established events. Some people might have their own problems with it (I definitely saw it cited as evidence of a coordinated attack on New Vegas), but it presents no continuity problems.

2. What exactly is a vial?

I don’t think this changed ghoul lore. They can still go 200+ years without turning, or they can start turning as soon as they get ghoulified. There’s just a new plot element where they can stave off the effects of going feral for awhile if they take this mysterious drug - without the drug, the rules are still the same. The story was NOT clear on this, and it confused me, but if ghouls need drugs to stay sane, Oswald, Dean, Billy, etc. could not exist even if there’s a massive industry in vials of goop that’s never been mentioned before.

3. It took Vault-Tec decades to build all the vaults.

This is something I worried about because there couldn’t have been much time between the boardroom scene and the bombs falling (Janey doesn't age). But I think it makes sense if you assume the vaults were already built and they filled them with experiments afterward. It does leave the problem that some vaults were unfinished but Vault-Tec also dropped the bombs - why would they do that before finishing their vaults? It’s possible that they planned to drop them but got beat to the punch, or any number of other explanations. Clear retcon but not a huge plot hole.

4. House is worse than Caesar all of a sudden?

This one’s a private gripe of mine because House and Sinclair were not originally written to be Actual Sadists Who Hate Humanity. There’s also House’s mastermind prepper attitude toward the apocalypse, which doesn’t indicate that he had a hand in orchestrating it. While the change doesn’t conflict with the text as far as I know, it really changes the flavor of the game, but not as much as:

5. The Fall of Shady Sands

Let’s say that this happened after the first battle of Hoover Dam, so no continuity issues with their ability to win that. (That’s probably why they set it in 2277, so the NCR would have almost four years to recover before NV. As if Caesar wouldn’t have taken half of their land by then, even with his armies crushed, but ok fine he’s going through a divorce, he’s busy right now.)

But are you telling me that a country can lose a massive city containing much of its infrastructure, most of its central government, and ~5% of its population and still be trying to manifest destiny four years later with no mention of it?

Losing the Divide as a travel route almost crippled the NCR in the Mojave for awhile. Now, not only have they lost the Divide and their capital city, but one of their other biggest cities, the Boneyard, is abandoned and inhabited by an apparently-unaffiliated town. (Yeah, Los Angeles is big, but we don’t see any NCR or Followers despite three main characters traveling through it.) Even if there were still people there during New Vegas, how is the NCR still conducting a campaign in the east?

Also, who is Muldover and what’s her position? Why does she have raiders at her disposal? Is that really supposed to be what remains of the government? I get that some of this will be resolved later, but short of complete societal collapse, there’s no explanation.

We don’t see any of this in New Vegas. The president (who was in office in 2277) is still alive. No one mentions losing family in the explosion. Caesar, Ulysses, and House, along with the many other characters who complain about the NCR’s weakness and instability, don’t bring it up. People even mention the politicians in Shady Sands specifically. PEOPLE ARE MAKING JOKES ABOUT WANTING A NUCLEAR WINTER-

Now there’s a saving interpretation going around that “the fall of Shady Sands - 2277” refers to a metaphorical fall, and the explosion was later. I’ll accept this if I have to, but don’t pretend it’s not a strained reading. Every entry on the board is dated. Why would you date an amorphous event and not date the city exploding?

The explosion was nineteen years ago, and it had to be that early because Lucy and Norm don’t remember living there. (Not clear how old they are but probably in their early-mid 20’s.) The earliest you could place the event without it making no sense is late 2282, because with the time skips in DLC, the events of New Vegas are about a year long. Maybe you could put a gap between Lucy returning to the vault and the actual destruction, but not a five-year one. And if it was in 2282, Max would still be a teenager.

There are legitimate concerns here. Between House and the NCR, the show changes a lot about the main conflict of New Vegas. It’s not just side details.

Not telling you how to feel! Just don’t pretend nothing poses any problems and people are crazy for being concerned. I think the vibe right now is to dismiss me as a hater, but I hope you can see I’ve tried to make it all work. Continuity is really important in a multi-decade story, especially to writers.

I will be appeased by a respectful and thought-out New Vegas remake that preserves as much of the original continuity as possible and is also really good and costs $4. Thanks in advance Bethesda.

Edit:

6. Tatoes in the vaults

TATOES IN THE VAULTSSSS? THIS IS MASSIVE DISRESPECT TO THE LORE. EVERYTHING WE KNOW IS DESTROYED. UNFORGIVABLE.

(but yeah there shouldn’t be tatoes in a vault that hasn’t opened)(maybe norm and lucy had seeds in their pockets when they came back, sure)

[iamnmbr3]

harry potter #15 :] very interested in hearing your thoughts on this

15. Worst thing they’ve ever done

Excellent question. I'm going to give two answers - because one is a scene I hate and usually ignore. If we go strictly by canon, then in my opinion hands down for me Harry's darkest moment is the bit in book 7 when he uses the Cruciatus Curse on Amycus Carrow to great effect and without any remorse. I actually loathe this scene and find it to be very poorly written resulting in it feeling jarring and ooc to the point that I usually pretend it didn't happen (though I think it had potential if it had been handled better).

Let me explain. A really notable moment in the series comes in book 5 when Harry is unable to effectively use the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix even though he's just seen her murder Sirius because even though he's angry, he isn't able to truly enjoy seeing another human being suffer and thus struggles with the spell. And if ever there was a moment when even a very kind and compassionate person might be tempted to enjoy seeing someone else suffer, you'd think facing someone like Bellatrix, who has committed innumerable heinous crimes, right after watching her murder a loved one might push them over the edge. But even such extreme circumstances don't do it for Harry. And then in book 7 it all changes because he witnesses Amycus Carrow...being rude...to Professor McGonagall. Listen. I love Minerva McGonagall. But if Bellatrix murdering Sirius in cold blood wasn't enough to enrage Harry then having THIS be the thing that sets him off feels like too much of a stretch.

The thing that really kills the scene for me though is everyone's reactions...or rather, non-reactions. Remember that this spell is absolutely agonizing when done correctly - equivalent to the agonies produced by the worst and most painful conventional Muggle torture. It's so bad even using it once carries a life sentence in Azkaban. It's so bad repeatedly using it on someone is enough to drive them insane. And Harry knows just how awful a spell it is since he himself has been a victim of it.

And when he uses this horrible, heinous cruel spell on another human being what's the reaction? Nothing. He doesn't feel guilt. He doesn't question himself at all. He doesn't think about it. Well ok. This could be an interesting, dark moment for his character. It could be a chance to explore how the war has changed him or how angry and frustrated he's feeling in that moment or to suggest that perhaps the Horcrux fragment is corrupting him and lots could be done with the fallout as he deals with what he's done and as other characters react to it.

But no. Because no other characters react as though he's done anything wrong either. McGonagall isn't disturbed or horrified or concerned. She actually compliments him and says it was "gallant" of him to defend her honor in that way. Uh. What?! No it wasn't. He could've just used a Stunner to defend her. Instead he did something that no one should do to anyone - something that is considered deeply taboo and awful even in the rather dystopian wizarding world. And no one cares. The narrative doesn't even remark on it. We're just supposed to all go "yayyy hero!" and move on. So at that point, why even include it? If he'd stunned or disarmed Amycus it would have had the same narrative impact. I know why the scene is really there. It's to try to tease the possibility that he will use the Killing Curse since he's used the other 2 Unforgivables by that point. But that's cheap and stupid.

The moment is dumb and ooc and none of the potential that could make it work and be actually in-character is explored. Consequently it feels like a very badly written ooc plot hole. So normally I just ignore it. Book 7 has a lot of lazy writing and while I can fix some of it, this moment and the retcon where suddenly people can be their own Secret Keepers are two moments that are just too bad for me to even bother with so I straight up ignore them.

But if we consider this part canon then it's definitely Harry's darkest and worst action, even if it's not given the narrative weight that it should be.

If we ignore that scene then his worst act is forcing Lockhart to go first into the Chamber of Secrets, knowingly putting him at risk of being killed and eaten.

In my opinion not putting more effort into working towards freeing Kreacher is also horrible but that's more of a bigger issue with the narrative where JKR retcons Harry's original horror at discovering Dobby's predicament and tries to convince the readers that most house elves are happy and benefited by being enslaved (no; they are not. Slavery is disgusting and inherently violent and harmful). Presumably Harry does free Kreacher after the war. But yeah. I find the whole way the story handles house elves to be quite repellent. And I hate that Harry originally had the right attitude and then JKR retconned it.

Send me a character and a number.

[contentment-of-cats]

Thrawn, age, illness, and injury.

Ahsoka talk below.

Fandom can be shallow and disappointing. First up, it's possible to dislike the representation of the character without shitting all over an excellent actor whose body of work is more than Disney can bound with contracts and Filoni's scripts. Disney got a full on smack in the face with Jon Boyega (who like Kelly Marie Tran got the shit end of the stick in 2 out of 3 of the sequels), you can bet that there are NDAs and 'you can't say mean things about us even if they're true' clauses.

Mostly I want to talk about age, illness, and injury and the way that people take it as a personal insult to their existence.

Let's start with the man himself. According to the Official Timeline (because everything eventually gets retconned and there is no actual canon) Thrawn was born 59BBY. He was 59 (two years older than I am now) when the space whales yeeted himself and as yet unknown other ships into the dark. Counting forward from the official timeline, he is at the very least 68 years old. He was in exceptional shape before the space whaling, yes. And no, he is not fully human, but is 'near human' - the Chiss evolved from human origins, their blue color explained in canon by something in the Csillan hydrosphere.

But let's look at this.

That is pain.

I'd guess about a 7 or 8.

Those tentacles are tight enough to hold him still, the twisting could induce torsion injuries to the spine and pelvis, cause spiral fractures to bone, dislocate joints, and compress/crush organs. Even with my Chiss physiology headcanon, I can't see anything but pain, crushing and twisting injuries, possibly with internal bleeding.

Additionally, I think that there could have been some kind of brain injury. While some of it could be the makeup and the lighting (or unlighting as the case may be), I think that the droop of one side of his mouth could be from nerve damage somewhere. My mother had a droop like that after a 'baby stroke' - transient ischemic attack.

He and Ezra were alone on the bridge, and he shot Ezra. Further, I can't see Ezra doing anything to help Thrawn after the credits roll. Once those Imps break through the blast door, he's going to be lucky to survive the fist minute.

In the great in-between that moment and the new canon?

So Thrawn, at the end of nine years is not just nine years older, but has managed to get his ship operable without a shipyard, not starve to death after the two years of consumables were gone, and not die of his injuries. (I've posted my theory that the survivors went into coldsleep to preserve the supplies.) Filoni has retconned bacta treatment into a magic potion - except when it isn't. The man is so inconsistent and wishy-washy that I could drive a 1960 Cadillac Eldorado through the smallest plot holes.

Y'all were expecting the buff blue daddy after all that. Elon Musk and 'dad bod.' I get it though, a lot of people invest in the concept of youth and health, go to extremes to hold onto it, even worship it - and denigrate the people who visibly age, are ill, or injured, or disabled. So many of the posts about Thrawn's portrayal in Ahsoka carry the stench of ableism and ageism. As for hating the character for his portrayal, blame Filoni instead.

[thewebcomicsreview]

Oh hey, Hamsteak 2. Looks like Vriska's...back in Alternia? In a dreambubble?

they sent the thief here in search of power; the power to escape the containment i so painstakingly set up for them

Al confirmed as the Candy narrator. Also confirmed that the black hole is "containment" for the dreambubbles and non-canon worlds, and that all the ghosts falling in wasn't an accident of fighting Lord English.

the black hole could only ever shelter them for so long, and in their haste to shrug off my protection they have opened the door to something far, far hungrier.

This panel is a callback to Karkat about to open the door to the New Universe. Where there were interrupted by Jack Noir. Vriska is interrupted by-

Yoo! It's Davepeta! Who feel into the black hole and has been conspicuously absent ever since. They're the only Ultimate who is not connected to Dirk, and in some ways the only "true" Ultimate. Interesting that Al considers them such a threat, when Davepeta has never been anything but benevolent.

Looks like it's all the sprites, in fact. Why...are there two Nannasprites? Oh god, I'm being pushed to the endless limits of my ability to remember Homestuck Lore. Is one of them pre-retcon? I do not remember.

ERISOLSPRITE: wwe'vve been here for liike a miilliion fuckiin 2wweep2. DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < actually we just got here DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < this place didnt even exist until she popped in ERISOLSPRITE: gue22 ii'll fuck my2elf.

It didn't exist until a character arrived, at which point it retroactively existed the whole time, like how a planet works.

DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < does that not sound insane to you fefeta? FEFETASPRITE: 3833 < 383

What? How are Davepeta and Fefeta coexisting? That definitely doesn't make sense.

Well, logic be damned, it's apparently time for a Vriska training arc.

Gah! Talksprites! Also, Vriska enters "Hell" on page 666 of Homestuck 2, which is I think the first time this comic has aimed at any kind of Meaningful Number.

God, we are full on visual novel here. I didn't know Ren'Py could export to web, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me. I presume/hope the save option is default and won't be needed here, it's 1:30am.

Tavros is here and, much more oddly, alive. I suddenly understand jack shit.

I have no memory of Tavros ever forgiving Vriska for anything...or, for that matter, Vriska even being aware she did anything that needed to be forgiven. I presume she's just lying here, though.

This line combined with this pose is the essence of Vriska

So, Vriska's being forced to "grow as a person" and her big idea to finish her character arc is to atone for her sins by getting Tavros to take revenge on her. Vriska thinks that the secret to gaining power is getting Tavros to kill her.

I wonder where she got that idea.

But that time she refused to mind control Tavros into killing her, she wanted him to grow from it, too. Now we're past that.

I felt smart for remembering the K8LL ME bit but we're being really obvious about it now so I guess they just assumed everyone would and I'm not special :(

Oh shit. Erisol wasn't kidding.

Davepeta roleplaying being a cat who dies horribly is kind of the perfect synthesis of Dave and Nepeta. What is this music. It's very toot-y.

Oh hey a text log. How convenient. So we're trapped in a time loop, then, explicitly recreating Groundhog Day. I guess that explains the infinity hourglass on the Plot Point machine.

Vriska's having a bad couple of years.

Davepeta is "countless" cool dudes and kitty girls, which I think is the first explicit confirmation they're an Ultimate Self, though that was pretty strongly implied at least. The only Ultimate to do so without Dirk's involvement.

Stop letting me intuit things and then immediately making them clear! I don't care if it's good writing, it's making my liveblog bad!

It's so weird to compare this Davepeta to the one in Homestuck OG. There Davepeta was presented as this wise sage mentor figure who'd achieved enlightenment, and here they're much more of "Dave + Nepeta's combined silliness as one character". It's a subtle difference, but go back and read Davepeta giving this same kind of talk to Jade back in Homestuck 1. I guess that's the difficulty of a character with so little screentime in the original, they're either very limited or they feel slightly off.

Oh my fucking god, a to-be-continued select screen. Shit, that takes me back in an unexpected way.

Also, from the associated news update, "the big flash" is apparently several months away (10/25?), and I have to say they might want to be careful about overhyping it, if they have small flashes and now Ren'Py novels that are just preludes. If it's anything less than a Cascade after months and months of hype it could fall flat where a surprise [S] Enter would've popped the fanbase hard.

[flower-boi16]

Alright, I'm in the mood to criticize Helluva Boss again so let's tear apart an explanation the writers tried to give for a giant recton that anyone can spot.

So we all know that Moxxie being from the greed ring is a retcon, right? Given that episode 5 of the first season established that Moxxie was born in the wrath ring, this is definitely a plot hole, right?

Well, the creators at the time tried to explain this obvious retcon. I couldn't find the tweet unfortunately but here's a screenshot from the wiki:

So Adam says that Moxxie was born in Wrath and his mother is from there, however he was raised and spent most of his life in Greed.

This explanation is bullshit, here's why. Ok, so, Moxxie's mother is from the Wrath ring, and Crimson lives in the greed ring. Therefore they could not ever meet with each other due to them living in completely different rings, therefore Moxxie wouldn't even be born in the first place.

If both of Moxxie's parents were Wrathian and at a young age his father died and his mother decided to move to Greed where she met Crimson, making him Moxxie's stepfather, that would be an explanation that would actually make sense, but that's not the explanation we got.

Instead, we're supposed to accept this bullshit explanation even though it doesn't make any sense whatsoever because again, Moxxie's parents couldn't have met with each other given that they would live in completely different rings.

Things like this clearly show how Helluva Boss was never planned out at all and Viv just came up with ideas on the spot without thinking about how they would fit within the show. Giving Moxxie an abusive dad was an unnecessary writing decision anyway. This explanation makes 0 sense once you factor in the logistics of it and feels like damage control for people who can easily spot this.

[paperstorm]

Tim Minear did a long interview recently that’s up on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/live/1r020-aM260?si=Xo5zAXFd0cu9d329

I’ve not watched but seen some summaries doing the rounds on X. So far all from og 911 fans so mostly commenting on what he says about that show but points still stand for LoneStar and Tarlos

Social media fandom does not = mainstream viewers. Show is written for the quiet majority not the overanalysing, often toxic, vocal minority

Fandom (og not us but I’m guessing that’s just because we haven’t had anything new for 17 months) so toxic he no longer reads any of it

He hates that the private messages he writes get shared on X/Twitter (to be fair he should not engage if he doesn’t want it to go further, he’s surely not that naive)

I guess this probably explains why he hadn’t been dropping a load of stills through the filming of S5 or as we wait for new episodes. Shame.

I’m gonna say something that might be controversial lol but I feel like Tim is immature in a way that grinds my gears sometimes. How do you not know that if you send a DM to a super fan it’s gonna get posted publicly. Fandoms are such beautiful communities and when celebrities hone in on the small handful of toxic assholes and act like they represent the entire community it feels so unfair to the vast majority of people who are good and kind and just here to love their show/book series/band/whatever. It makes me so nuts when people only pay attention to the rude comments and only respond to the hate and then act like that’s all there is, when they are the adult making the choice to engage with the assholes.

He lost me a bit after his reaction to the season 4 criticism honestly. We all know it was poor planning to have Iris be Carlos’s wife, we all know it wasn’t properly developed or foreshadowed, we all know it retconned past storylines and opened up plot holes in previous seasons. If he’d just been honest about it all - just said “listen this is a thing we wanted to do in season one and didn’t end up having time for and then COVID and losing Liv Tyler made it complicated so we’re doing it now and we know it’s a bit messy but we hope people like it anyway” I feel like so many more people would’ve been on board. But instead he had to pretend like it actually was planned all along when it clearly wasn’t as if like we silly fan girls just weren’t smart enough to understand his vision, and respond to anyone pointing out the plot holes with talking about how lavender marriages are a real thing and implying people are homophobic for having an issue with Carlos having a secret wife like as if that was what anyone’s critique was actually about. Idk I just! The childishness lol. And anyone, famous or not, who is incapable of accepting any criticisms without deciding it’s automatically haterade because criticism of them or something they created couldn’t possibly be valid. I am le tired of people like this. Sorry Tim. You made a great show but you make me tired.

[guiltygearconfessions]

the thing with dizzy and sin is easy to explain. guilty gear wanted legacy characters without aging up their established cast. that’s literally it. it’s why dizzy’s 8, and sin’s 5.

dizzy’s entire existence is canon breaking. people have been debating about her origins and her parentage for decades at this point. old fandom debates like justice is a mom?! how?! is kliff or sol dizzy’s dad? how could justice be dizzy’s mom when she was in an interdenominational seal in between the end of the crusades and missing link’s tournament? was dizzy born in the seal? if so, how did she escape the seal??! if sol is dizzy’s dad then when was dizzy conceived? is sol only dizzy’s dad in the sense he’s the prototype gear and kinda the “father of gears” the way justice is the “mother/juno”? justice is a woman? good for her! rip queen

her storymode intro in ggx+ claims that “she’s three but mentally and physically equivalent to a 20 year old human,” and that doesn’t make sense! she looks like baby’s first deviant art oc but guess what this is guilty gear! all the characters are like that to some extent! sometimes you gotta suspend your disbelief for the sake of the story.

dizzy was created to a character that is a peer to the rest of the cast, but because of her backstory the writers had to BS an origin that does not conflict with the rest of the established cast and setting.

but honestly, if the writers retcon her into to being 40 years old by strive i wouldn’t bat an eye. though some might say, wouldn’t that be a plot hole because that would mean dizzy was alive during the crusades making there be two command gears?!?? to that i say sssshhhhhhh-shut up! just wave it off has her fucking off in the demon forest. her backstory is held together by duck tape and string what’s a little retcon gonna do?

sin is a similar case but with a different intention. the story needed a rebellious teenager that’s in conflict with one of their bio parents like rock howard. but again they can’t age up the established cast too much off screen, though they did give ky a beard in concept art. doing that would make overture even more controversial than it once was. (back then some people straight up thought overture was an AU that was going to discarded when arcsys regains their IPs.) as a result a lot of development happens in such a little time. also fandom estimates of sin’s age in overture started at 5, then as xrd and strive progressed it went down to 3. Like we are just now getting a clear timeline on these guys. we keep aging them back to fit things in.

there’s a reason why barely any of the guilty gear characters have their ages listed as ??? or unknown and it’s the same reason why ky, one of the only characters with a canon age, is now a gear. the franchise wants to avoid aging their cast as much as they can. canon will bend itself over to justify keeping these characters at their current age.

-

[d6b-onion]

i find it such a ZUN Moment™ of UDoALG that Aunn turns out to always have had two independent bodies. And Aunn acts like everyone else already knows, too

its main relevance to the story is literally just making Yachie look like an idiot

(cf that post about the potential of 4 aunns at once haunting Yachie's nightmares)

and furthermore i love how it casually upends an assumption that is insane to even question, that being "a given character has only one main body". a fun little lesson of gensokyo common sense

a fun result is that now you can poke a hole at any story written before/without knowing this plot point that features aunn by asking "by the way, what's her second body up to?"

Now, to be fair, it was already known from a spell card and Grimoire of Marisa that Aunn can make a temporary copy to mirror her movements, and you could read it as a retcon of sorts.

but i won't. more silly this way >:3

[cat-mermaid]

One of the things I'm kinda impressed by from the world building in Splatoon 3 is how they pulled off a soft retcon on Octolings

For the first two games we were firmly told that Octolings were a special type of Octarian, not their own separate race, just another offshoot of the many forms an Octarian could make

Spatoon 1, Sunken Scrolls #9:

"It seems that some Octarians can assume humanoid form. These specimens have superior physical capabilities and are highly aggressive. High-ranking individuals have kelp on their heads. But what motivates them, if anything at all?"

buuuuut in Spatoon 3 they began introducing Octolings like Shiver and one of the members of the band Diss-Pair, stating that these Octolings had been born and raised on the surface

Without ever outright stating it, they artfully and subtlety implied that Octolings around the world were their own race, and that the Octraian ones were their own thing that existed in Inkadia (part of the world where Splatoon 1,2 and 3 take place)

This is such a smart world building decision, because they clearly wanted Octolings to have a bigger presence in the world, but having each and every single one be a deserter from the Octraian army/society would be a really hard pill to swallow story wise

The only thing that still bothers me story wise is the same thing that bothered me when the Octo expansion dlc came out:

Octarains had to live underground because there was no room for both them and Inklings right? But turns out the world of Splatoon isn't just one city and the land around it? Theres a whole world? Theres enough room and resources for a whole city to take on an influx of Octolings in Splatoon 2?

OH and the plot hole of "Nobody in Splatoon 2 had even seen an Octoling before so they just thought Octolings were Inklings with weird haircuts and strange accents?" that contradicts the fact that there is a city (splatsville) right next them that had Octolings (like Shiver) hanging around the whole time?

yeah when Splat3 came out I was like WHAT THE FUCK THIS MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL and guess what it still don't but I'm willing to turn my brain off a tiny bit because otherwise Splatoon as a series is so fantastically done