#kp high school

[jq37]

So, that lady FH episode was amazing and all, but...

Hoo boy, I already see the discourse around the Ratgrinders' fates forming and it is going to be painful. Be careful around the fandom space.

(I mean, resurrection is still on the table for them, but that's based on if the players feel like it and right now, we're looking at 50/50 odds at bests)

Yeah, don't worry about me. This isn't my first rodeo and also I post a lot about D20 and respond to asks I get but I don't actually personally engage with any of The Discourse (tm).

And I'm not really surprised at the reaction. I know people have been opinionated all season in two main camps (that have a lot of overlap): people dissatisfied with the narrative direction and people deeply sympathetic to the Rat Grinders to the point of being mad at the Bad Kids.

The first camp I mostly understand. I get wishing the cast would explore a certain storyline more. For example, I've been on the Aelwyn redemption arc train since literally the first episode of Fantasy High so I was a little disappointed that when that finally came to a head in Freshman Year, it was a big fight and then very little aftermath/unpacking because Aelwyn was sent to jail right after. And Sophomore Year hadn't been announced so I had no idea that she was gonna get another shot. But I wasn't upset or anything. Adaine at that point still hated her sister. She had no reason to want to reach out. And at the end of the day this is other people playing a game. Brennan presented them all the possible plot threads and they were most interested in self discovery, hanging out with each other, doing Shenanigans, and playing Tomb Raider re: Ankarna. Those are all options they were presented and it's not like they were doing crazy off-roading. It's well within the parameters of what D&D is. If you're gonna watch a show like this (or honestly any show), you have to accept that what's most interesting to you isn't always going to be the most interesting thing to the people in the driver's seat.

So yeah, I feel like this side of things I get (even though I'm fine with how things turned out).

The other camp--people being legit mad at the Bad Kids (and in some cases the actual cast) for treating the Rat Grinders like antagonists instead of victims that they were responsible for empathizing with and redeeming--I find kind of wild.

Like…you're mad at the kids who go to Child Murder School for killing kids who want to end the world and kill them specifically? Literally the first day of school the principal of the school says that adventurers are violent wanderers who engage in shenanigans and enact violence. This is the exact assignment they were given and that's what they're doing.

I think it's wild to at the same time believe that the Rat Grinders (who have killed people) are not responsible for their actions and deserve to be talked down while in the process of causing an apocalypse because they're just kids who were manipulated while at the same time calling the Bad Kids evil lunatics for trying to stop them by killing them (in a world where Revivify and Resurrection exist) even though they are ALSO kids who are doing what they've learned at Child Murder School. The Bad Kids have to be mature enough to thoroughly investigate the situation and have nuance about it but the Rat Grinders don't have any responsibility to not join a shady evil murder plan*? And do the Bad Kids really hate the Rat Grinders to the point where they're doing some overkill in this fight? Absolutely. But it's not like they're killing them because they hate them. They're killing them because they're trying to end the world--and they also happen to hate them. Are we forgetting that Kipperlilly killed Buddy--her own teammate--with a gleeful smile on her face? That was so out of pocket.

They're adventurers! Not guidance counselors! If Jawbone was like, "We need to kill these kids," yeah that would be weird but why would the Bad Kids extend an olive branch to the kids who (1) famously hate them, (2) killed at least one maybe 2 of their own party members, (3) endangered the entire student body population an hour ago, (4) are currently trying to end the world. Hell, Adaine was ready to be mean to her own sister in elf jail literally up until the point Brennan described how rough she looked from the torture and that's when she changed her mind. The Power of Love and Empathy is on the menu but it's a special item you only can get if you know the chef. Everyone else is getting a serving of These Hands. Just because you can find a vegan solution to a problem it doesn't mean you're obligated to.

This all comes down to, "Maybe teenagers shouldn't have godlike powers and the ability to play judge, jury, and executioner" but that's literally the premise of the entire show so you can't get around it without rejecting the show's entire premise. If they were like, "Hmm the systems that underpin our world are questionable and we should change the power structures" instead of, "Let's kill some bad guys!" then that's a totally different thing we're doing here!

And, idk man, this show has always had a Who Framed Roger Rabbit style morality where the normal rules of ethics stop applying when it's funny. They beat the crud out of Ragh and then lied to him that he shit his pants just for the bit. A pirate was rude/kinda racist to Riz so they scared him into killing himself. Riz ate the remains of the sentient (albiet evil) dragon he killed. That's all unhinged behavior but none of that is meant to be serious. Getting upset about Fig sending Ruben to hell to me feels like getting mad that Jerry hit Tom with a cartoonishly large mallet.

None of this is new so I have to assume that people are having a big reaction because they relate to the Rat Grinders or just really like them so it feels bad that the Bad Kids are treating them like fodder rather than beloved NPCs.

But again, this is a world where you can bring people back from the dead and the Rat Grinders have showed intent that is grievously neglectful at best and insanely murderous at worst so I can't muster a lot of sympathy for the fact that the Bad Kids are just taking them down without remorse. I don't think you have to try to empathize with the people who are trying to harm you if you don't want to especially while they are in the process of harming you.

(*And we still don't know how voluntarily they joined this plan. We don't know if they were killed and basically forced into resurrecting with rage or if they just leapt at the chance to join a plan that would let them get one over on their rivals. It literally could be either. We've had kid villains on this show strong armed into being party to evil plans by threat of harm (Aelwyn) as well was kid villains who just had their own selfish motivations and weren't tricked at all (Penelope and Biz). We actually don't have any clear answer on how culpable they are. We don't know if they all have rage crystals (except for Buddy). And we don't know how much having a Rage Crystal effects your actions. The best indicator we got is in this latest ep when Brennan said that there was a mechanic where Porter was going to call anyone with a rage crystal to fight for him but that says to me that he's only directly puppeting them when he uses that action and otherwise they have free will and are just angrier. The Bad Kids don't have a reason to believe definitively that the Rat Grinders are just unwilling puppets even if that is the case so of course they're treating them like enemies. Anyway, this is a whole lot of "I don't knows" but that's only because I've seen a lot of people talking like the Rat Grinders literally aren't in control of their actions but that's not info that we have. It could be true but we don't actually know that so it's not a good argument.)

[bitacrytic]

HOW TO HANDLE CHEMISTRY

-

More TDJ/KP/TWOE Parallels

[blueaphelion]

You know… if you count the pages, and pages, and pages of printer-paper-crayons-and-markers drawings I did in my preteens, Kim Possible is by far the fandom I’ve done the most fanart for.

I would spend pretty much all my free time either looking up references from the show and older artists’ fanart for inspiration (and subsequently wasting a shitton of my parents’ paper and ink printing out all those images and stapling them together as reference packets; smartphones weren’t a thing and I didn’t have any version of a laptop to save the images to for later viewing), or sitting in front of the tv with stacks of blank paper and containers of Crayola markers and crayons on a folding tv dinner table while I toiled away at my kid-brain hybrid of fanfiction and picture books. (That is to say, I’d come up with story ideas and then draw them with little bits of prose and dialogue written on each page. I didn’t know what graphic novels were at the time.)

I had huge stacks of these stories in boxes in my closet, that I’d stapled together as some form of binding. They were referred to as my “Kim Possible books.”

I kinda wish I hadn’t thrown all of them away out of private embarrassment in high school. It would have been neat to look back on them now, as a professional artist. Plus it was a waste of a lot of paper lol

[sharperthewriter]

Fall Internet Activity - 2023

Good evening, everyone.

With August already here, this can only mean one thing for me: The football season is finally here. This means that I will be doing stats for my local teams and this also means traveling to various places within my state. For this reason, I will not be available on Wednesdays, Thursdays, or Fridays for the second half of August, all of September, all of October, and the first couple weeks of November. I will be here for the remainder of the week.

[mikkaeus]

barcode in the ep 7 bts :((( poor kid, he did so well despite the stress. im glad pond & jeff were so supportive. i can’t believe he’s only 17 he is LITERALLY not old enough to watch kinnporsche sdlkfjsldf

[gaiaxygang]

i dont mind bls set in high school or university if they utilise that setting well tbh. not many do though

[adanima]

.

[kinnporsche007]

Chapters: 12/12

Rating: Explicit Summary:

“Yep, we’ll break them up. You in?” Porsche couldn’t stop himself from smiling. He knew Vegas liked playing this type of games. Porsche raised his fist to bump at Vegas'. “Ohh, I am in! I want that cousin of yours for myself only, Vegas.” Porsche said, and Vegas laughed once more. This was gonna be fine, or maybe it was gonna be a disaster.

Step brothers Porsche and Vegas are back to their hometown. On their first day of school they've fallen for the school's famous couple, the sweethearts, Kinn and Pete...

It’ finally finished! Hope you’ll like it! :))

[jq37]

The Report Card – Fantasy High Junior Year Ep 6

Post Shrimp Jump Conspiracy Board Special

Hey y’all! Welcome back to Seacaster Manor where the shrimp party is still raging and the Bad Kids are balancing being cooler than ever with some serious sleuthing. We get a lot of new information this episode so I wanted to try out a new format for this week. I often talk in a metaphorical way about putting items up on a Conspiracy Board but I want to actually try that now that we’re a little over a quarter of the way in and have multiple overarching things happening. This is going to be a lot less linear than usual but bear with me. Gotta shake things up a little so I don’t get burnt out! There’s still fourteen more episodes to go! 

The Rat Grinders

The Bad Kids’ de facto rival party got a lot of screen time in this episode, which makes sense: Adaine declared the party their nemeses over Goldenhoard or anyone else they’ve fought, which is saying a lot. Before this point, we knew the following facts about them:

1) They got their name because the only enemies they’re recorded as killing are low level ones (including rats) that they grind in the woods behind the school, showing a willingness to follow the letter but not spirit of the rules but also an impressive amount of dedication. 

2) Their leader seems to be rogue, Kipperlily Copperkettle who is type A as hell and has a LOT of free time to kill having found the rogue professor (or at least having the rogue professor find her). She’s running for class president on a platform based around “fairness” which is a theme that’s come up more than once this season. 

3) Also on the team are emo Bard Reuben (who seems to be related to the new Artificing teacher and who shares an agent with Fig) and nonplussed Barbarian Mary Ann (who is buffing herself magically somehow).

4) Kipperlily specifically asked about where Kristen was able to create a new god. Now how, where. An odd question. 

This episode, we learned a lot more, so let's throw them on the board and make some connections!

5) The Rat Grinders have a new cleric named Buddy Dawn (something Kristen’s brother mentioned two episodes ago). He’s from Highcourt and moved with his grandparents. He’s got super Mormon+Southern “Bless Your Heart” energy and Kristen doesn’t like how familiar it feels. His vibes are clocked as well meaning but kinda judgey. 

6) Buddy Dawn was *specifically requested* by the party. Of course, requesting a cleric isn’t weird–why wouldn’t you want one? And Helioism seems a pretty common religion in the region so odds are good that if you get a cleric is would be a Helioic one. But, paired with KP’s question about Kristen, it makes you wonder if the plan is to recruit a Kristen expy and try to get lightning to strike twice.  

7) At the beer pong table, we meet the RG’s archer who is an elf named Ivy Embra. She’s got some flirty, catty energy (which we see when she interacts with Fabian and Mazey respectively).

8) We also meet the party wizard, Oisin Hakinvar, who is a Conjuration specialist with a focus in summoning. He’s a blue dragonborn which means that he has a great great great (etc) blue dragon ancestor he can ping when he needs barrels of diamonds, no problem. He has so many in fact that when Adaine lies badly that she’s also swimming in diamonds, he kindly offers to let her borrow some of his “extras”. But she turns them down, calls him great, and then panics and runs away to commiserate with Fabian who is also panicking about a flirty moment with Ivy. Oisin, for his part, seems driven to distraction and can’t make a single other shot all night. Cute! But–

9) As much as I want to wholeheartedly love Oisin (and honestly do and will until I am given direct evidence to change my mind) I have to point out that KVX, known evil bank, did change its logo from red (Goldenhoard’s color) to blue (Oisin’s Ancestor’s color) and there is a shot in the trailer of the party fighting a blue dragon. Connected? Maybe.

10) From investigating some yearbooks, the party also learns that the Rat Grinders have existed since Freshman Year but, at the time, they were called the High Five Heroes. They all look a lot more smiley and a lot less intense–Rebuen’s not even emo. It was the lineup from above, minus Buddy and plus a frost Genasi cleric named Lucy Frostblade. They learn that she supposedly died in their Sophomore year but specifically during a period near the end of the year where grades are locked and it wouldn’t affect their party comp which is…convenient. 

11) Fig tries to investigate this by disguising herself as Lucy and seeing how Ivy and Oisin react. Only Ivy sees her but she doesn’t seem shocked at all to see her allegedly dead party member She just raises an eyebrow and ditches the game to talk to her. Fig bails (and rolls only a 12 to stealth away) so we don’t get any extra info but just the fact that Ivy reacted that way is pretty juicy info as is.  

12) The other Rat Grinders don’t seem to be at the party but the members are skeptical about that. On the other hand, when Ivy leaves, it’s because Oisin pulls her aside and says, “Kipperlilly’s calling”. So it’s possible there was a Team A and a Team B for whatever the Rat Grinders were doing that night?

13) And speaking of what they're doing, we do have a theory. When Fabian checks some damage in the basement where Max and some other kids were smoking "gorgenfern" he sees that something called a cloud rider engine was smashed up pretty bad and in a suspicious way–gorgenfern doesn’t make you rowdy. Fabian checks the security tapes he obviously has and sees that some ice mephits came in and riled people up to the point of crashing into the engine. Adaine conjured some earlier in the party and as far as her arcana check can tell, they’re here, but there’s suspicion that Oisin–a conjuration wizard–could have done it. It’s certainly within his skillset. A cloud rider engine allows a vehicle to fly on clouds and it’s not clear if it was simply smashed or if something was stolen from it. 

14) Max isn’t a Rat Grinder but he did ask them all if they wanted to smoke with him and Ivy offered Fabian snuff so Riz is suspicious that the RG’s are trying to get them kicked out of school for drug use now that they have a non-Aguefort principal who presumably cares about silly rules like that at the murder school. 

That’s basically what we know about the Rat Grinders! So, to sum it up, I’d say the conspiracy board bullet points are:

Supposedly dead cleric Lucy Frostblade: What actually happened to her and why isn’t Ivy surprised to see “her”?

New cleric Buddy Dawn: Why was he specifically requested? 

The High Five Heroes: What caused them to turn into the Rat Grinders? And, as they seem like they were more gung ho their first year, why did they never pivot to fighting things other than low level monsters?

Do they actually have beef with the Bad Kids specifically or are their vibes just terrible? Were they trying to sabotage them by offering drugs? Did they break the engine on purpose and, if so, why?

Oisin: Is he chill or is he working an angle? That question technically goes to Ivy as well but I’m almost certain she’s fully working an angle, lol. I’m getting straight up Aelwyn vibes from her.

Class President: What is KP’s angle re: running for class president? This seems like something she’d want to do either way with her personality but her policy of fairness dovetails too neatly with Grix’s appearance and Cassandra’s inability to say the phrase, “It’s not fair,” last episode.

How did KP find the rogue professor and is that relevant?

And finally, why did KP want to know about where Kristen created her Freshman year god? Well, that question may be partially answered in our next section. 

God Stuff

There is a lot going on this season with celestial shenanigans between Cassandra and Galicaea and even Yes! So let’s mark out what we know.

1) Cassandra was possessed by some kind of rage entity via crystal shards that were expelled from her body. Her status is kind of up in the air right now as the party was shunted away to safety by Connor Counterspell (RIP) and all Kristen has left of Cass are some glowing, purple shards. 

2) Earlier in the fight, while lucid, Cassandra said, “I thought you were dead” about some unseen entity. Later, Kristen heard from a creepy voice that said, “She is at my side once more”. It then threatened her and slid out the rotting corpse of Yes! as a sick joke. Likely that these are the same person or at least connected. 

3) Gorgug identified that the rage stars are similar to what’s going on with Ragh’s mom, Lydia so it was put on the docket to get in touch with her about that–especially because Kalina specifically told them to track down Ragh with her last lucid words. 

4) Tracker’s Galicaea rebrand is going really well. Her social media is really popping and the endless night probably didn’t hurt. 

5) Kristen on the other hand, hasn’t been doing so hot. Due to a bunch of negligence based in lack of time management and personal uncertainty, she hasn’t been evangelizing much which means only she and Craig stand between Cass and her permanent destruction. 

6) Kristen can’t contact Cass telepathically and says she can’t use her magic which is Not Great if you're as danger prone as the Bad Kids. 

Alright, that’s all the old business so let’s move to the new business. 

7) When Kristen talked to her parents, we learned that Helio doesn’t have a chosen one since she left but we learn that it’s more serious than that. Helio also can’t choose a new chosen one. He only gets one. With Kristen gone, the whole religion is without a chosen one.

8) At a certain point, Tracker finally gets a hold of Kristen and says some harsh but true things about Kristen but, more relevant to the conspiracy board, she talks about her girlfriend Nara and Adaine, as a fellow high elf, clocks her as coming from a family of moon goddess clerics in Falinel. That raises the question: is this run of the mill teenage rebellion a la the theme song, or is she some kind of plant? We’ll hopefully get some more info from Aelwyn since Adaine texted her about it.

9) The real juicy stuff happens when we talk to Ragh’s mom. The fiend in Lydia's gem is called Bakur. Her having him in there doesn't make her rage--she's raging to keep him trapped but that's it. Her personality is the same. 

10) Bakur was a pit fiend and the right hand guy of a dead god whose name we don't know (hmm, another dead and nameless god). Bakur can't even say the god's name. It's like, weird god rules and Lydia explains in a weird vague way: gods not being able to use loopholes and saying names being powerful and rules changing for non-mortals when gods die.

11) The one very concrete info we get is that a god can only come back in a place where they were born or created. The reason Bakur’s plan failed is that he tried to bring back the nameless god in the Red Waste and not where they were created. 

12) Rana (Lydia’s party cleric) is away and Cormyr (the party sorcerer) is dead but Lydia offers to put the party in touch with Rana and Cormyr’s family because they have more stuff related to this and they were the ones who knew more about this than her. 

Following? Good. So let’s distill this down to bullets again:

Holy Helio. The corn god doesn’t have a chosen one anymore because Kristen up and left. What does that mean in a concrete sense? What can a chosen one do that a normal cleric can’t? Is Helio gonna ask Kristen to do anything this season now that we know that this is a special position that only one person can fill? Is it until she dies (or at least dies for real)? Would a fanatical Helioic person try and kill Kristen to open up that slot?

KP specifically asking WHERE Cassandra was created seems clearly tied to the info Lydia gave about only being able to resurrect a god where it was created. But what does that mean exactly? Is she trying to resurrect the same god as Bakur? Did she just assume that wherever Kristen made her god is probably where most gods are made and, thus, her best bet? What’s her angle? Is this an evil plan for just a “this will get me a good grade” plan?

Where in the world is Cassandra right now? She is MIA right now which means Kristen’s powers are too. Though I wonder if she can draw on those shards to cast spells.

We obviously can’t be sure but it seems like the voice Kristen heard and the person that Cass thought was dead is likely that unnamed god. What’s his deal? I’m sure we’ll have more info for this bullet soon. 

Is Tracker’s new girlfriend Nara, much like Ecaf, a turncoat? 

With Helio, Cass, and Galicaea all being in the mix, is there any kind of family angle being played. It doesn’t come up a ton but they are very much related. 

MISC

This is a section for a few points that don’t yet fit under the main two headings of the season but still need to go up on the board. 

Why would Aguefort program a robot that acts like Grix? Is he supposed to be like or is he hacked? If he is hacked, who would be able to do that? The new artificing teacher? The old one?

We learn that Aguefort has made a lot of contradicting proclamations and all of them are canon, so you’re able to pick and choose what you want to cite (I feel like I’m in law school again). Lots of room for loopholes which could be useful later. 

Adaine, while very drunk, had an oracle vision of Kristen at a birthday party, giving a victory speech to a bunch of teens on election night as a crescent moon hangs in the sky. The Crescent moon potentially gives them a time frame if they look into it (and it specifically being mentioned makes me think of Galicaea even though not every moon thing has to be connected to her). And we know Gorgug’s birthday is near the Frosty Folk festival so maybe that’s why the hats.

Speaking of, we know there’s a connection between Riz’s mom defending someone for money crimes re: that Festival and Gorgug’s parents hosting it so that’s something to remember. 

This isn’t something for the pin board per se but this season introduces a stress token system for downtime! I’m sure I’ll talk about it more when we use it for the first time next ep but, for now, gotta say he’s really ramping up the pressure on our kids! And, to that point, let’s do a quick check in with everyone and see what they’re up against!

Character Board

Adaine

-Adaine is still facing major money troubles. After last episode, not only is her job terminated, but she actually owes 2.5 gold for her uniform. 

-It looks like she might be developing a bit of a crush on the cute dragonborn (yay) but he’s a Rat Grinder (nooooo). I will say though, cross party romance could be a lot of fun and also my favorite NPC in this show is Aelwyn whose top 2 traits are famously Criminal and Loves Adaine so I am honestly fine with this either way lol. 

-Speaking of Aelwyn, I’ll put the sister stuff together: When Adaine calls her to ask for dirt on Nara she says, “Working, will call in five.” And when Adaine questions the fact that it's 5am on a Saturday, Adaine just gets a winky face emoji back. Suspicious! 

Fabian

-Fabian has to juggle the new 150% course load (bard/fighter) as well as his new party house reputation.

-He has a lack of adult supervision which also means a lack of adult care and it seems to be affecting him more than he’s willing to let on. 

-But honestly his biggest obstacle is probably himself right now, lol. He made himself a new nemesis in Gertie Bladshield and I am not confident he can handle this honey trap mission with Ivy without the tables being turned on him. 

Riz

-Riz is also facing money troubles, but for him that’s kind of business as usual unfortunately.

-He has a TON of extracurriculars to keep track of but he so far seems to be handling it pretty well and is picking up some interesting allies (that double as votes for Kristen’s campaign–campaign manager is also an extracurricular he’s taken up): the aforementioned Gertie Bladeshield (Apiary Club), Sprak LeFevre (Aviation Club), and Molman Holden (Soil Club). Always good to have new allies and Aviation Club seems like it could be really useful later! I can see him making some luck checks to successfully say, “I know a guy” in a tight spot based on how many clubs he’s joined. 

-He also has the Reliable Talent ability now which means he’s incapable of rolling lower than a 21 on things he’s proficient in which includes Investigation. We’re about to be getting some INSANE lore dumps. 

Gorgug

-Gorgug has his insane 400% courseload happening and I didn’t notice this until it was pointed out to me but Zac actually leveled Gorgug DOWN in Barbarian to take an extra level of Artificer! That’s commitment. But I can’t imagine Porter, who already has a problem with him, is gonna like that. 

Fig

-Fig would hate it if I didn’t start this list by saying that she hella misses Ayda and that’s her biggest problem. 

-But she also has her album to worry about and we actually get the bombshell during a conversation with Mazey that she’s not even sure that she still wants to be a bard.

-On top of that, she’s taking Barb and Warlock classes along with the Bard classes she’s finally going to. 

-She has her gnarly Gilear curse happening that’s seemingly connected to whoever the boss who owns the pride armor is. 

-She has beef with Rebuen and is living her double life as Wanda Childa to try and learn whatever she can about him/the Rat Grinders. 

-Both she and Wanda are wanted by the Solace FBI.  

-On a positive note, she really endeared herself to Mazey by sweetly sticking up for her when Ivy was being catty. If Fig wasn’t so devoted to Ayda I could have read their interaction at the end of the ep as flirty. Regardless, nice moment and great ally. 

Kristen

-Welp, her god is, if not dead, MIA which is arguably the biggest deal of anything on any of these lists, especially since it’s tied to her magic AND her grade. 

-Next of course is the potato to her meat on her plate: her campaign. But that’s actually going really well, especially after this party. Her biggest issue is whether or not she can get Fetty Wap to homecoming and, lbr, in a pinch Fig can just disguise herself as him. When has that ever not worked?

-She also has this unnamed god (or whoever it is) taunting her and threatening her specifically which isn’t ideal. 

-But I honestly think she was more fucked up by the conversation which Tracker where her ex basically outlined everything she needs to get together in her life and then posted a pre-written pic with her new girlfriend. That’s gotta sting. 

And that’s it! I wanted to focus on the specific nuggets of info we got this episode and start to connect them with what we knew so far. Different format, I know, but I’m feeling experimental this season and I might switch it up a few more times as Junior Year goes on. I love covering Fantasy High but, like I said at the top, I have to keep it fresh so I don’t burn out. See you next time when Brennan makes the stress we’re all feeling an actual game mechanic! Fun!

[anonymoushouseplantfan]

“They can get her invites (concerts, charity events, etc…), but I’m not sure what the ultimate goal looks like. None of this adds up to a coherent pr drive.” I’ve been low-key embarrassed for her and her desperation to be attached to celebrities (Kerry Washington at the Beyoncé concert, Cameron Diaz at the KP concert). She’s 42/43 years old…it’s sad. Her need to be with some perceived “in” crowd just seems like she’s never really left high school. It’s not aspirational at all. I’m a few years older than her and I find almost everything she does cringy because nothing is really authentic.

THIS!

The obvious contrast is Taylor Swift’s girl gang in NY and her football games. Those pics are arranged too, but they feel a lot more natural than Meghan’s. More glamorous too. Taylor has good paps who take great pics.

[bcbdrums]

I saw the Reddit drama. Please explain why Drakgo is a more interesting ship than KimRon.

first, thanks for the ask! second, whoaaaaaaa i wouldn't presume to label one ship more interesting than another. some people will find ships interesting, others won't.

i'll give a diff example. in my other current hyperfixation, soul eater, my friend adores Ship A while i'm all about Ship B. her ship IS interesting to me! i think those chars are the most shippable in the show, they're basically canon w/o PDA, and they are deeply complex both as individual chars and as a couple.

they're just... not the ones i'm hyperfixated on. doesn't make them uninteresting.

what makes a person's brain and heart grab onto one ship and not another? who can say.

a lack of personal interest in a ship does not make it objectively uninteresting, or worse... and a ship having way more attention than another in fandom doesn't objectively make that ship more interesting, or better.

CAN a person make canonical objective arguments for or against ships? certainly.

let's just grab characters from KP to use as example. Bonnie and Brick. canonically a couple for more than one episode! we do not get a lot of canon info onscreen for them, so most of the interest in them would have to come from fan creations. compare to Kim and Ron, who have infinitely more screentime together, infinitely more individual character development than Bonnie and Brick both as individuals and as a couple...

one could argue that Kim/Ron is more interesting than Brick/Bonnie. there's more to grab from the canon at least. but if a person wants to draw/write/talk at length about Brick/Bonnie? why not!

no reason to be hating on any ship. if it's not your ship, then just...don't engage?? especially if you're against said ship.

now me, personally, i find Drakgo more interesting than Kim/Ron. (altho recent convo with @creatorping got my Kim/Ron juices flowing again). Drakgo just appeal to me more as characters, with their gritty backgrounds, a lot more unknowns to explore, the challenge of two villains developing a mutual trusting relationship so they can have a happily ever after... that just grabs my mind and heart more than the perfect girl and her adorkable boyfriend. it doesn't mean Kim and Ron aren't interesting, cuz ohhhhh they are! mostly post-canon for me because...who ARE they, after high school?? who is Kim other than the student who saves the world? what's she gonna do with her life? and what is Ron gonna do? he absolutely can't go to the same college as her, and she can't ditch a good opportunity to go to a community college with him... my hang-up has always been that Kim wasn't given enough individual development onscreen to do anything interesting with her post-canon. but aforementioned convo with Ping changed my mind, heheh. 😏

in any case, the point... one ship isn't more or less interesting. one ship isn't better or worse than another. it's us, the viewer, who either will or won't be interested.

so as i've always said.... ship and let ship. don't like? don't interact. don't hate on someone else's ships or headcanons or POVs... (reddit...)

and, that's not the same thing as discourse. discussing characters, discussing points of view, interpretations... sharing various headcanons... with willing parties who want to enter into that conversation! THAT is a major part of fandom! but it's all in how one goes about it. and! should people come to disagree about interpretations of characters, also fine!

i think the issue arises when people start to act like... my interpretation is correct OR, my interpretation is the only valid one. when people get up on that horse, that's where the problems arise... it can be tough if you feel like you're the only person WITH a certain POV, but... again, if the folks you're chatting with aren't into it, then find other people. i'm in that boat with some soul eater headcanons, but, that's okay. i don't need to convince everyone else in the fandom in order rto enjoy my thoughts. i'll still talk about them, but, not with the idea of telling anyone my view is the only view. that's the antithesis of what fandom is about. i'll talk about them because i enjoy talking about them, to like-minded folk, and on my own blog which is what a blog is for.

and, idk why it shows up so often in the KP fandom, especially the Drakgo side, that people can't simply say "hey i have this headcanon!" and someone respond with "oh that's neat!" and just. happily co-exist. everyone creating their things, sharing their things. and people will like what they like, as they always have, in every fandom. and if they don't like someone's idea, that's fine too!

but it's not worth fighting about?? it never is! it's just not that important. it's fandom. it's fun. it's our escape. if one feels SO strongly against a concept, or ship, or whatever.... then you don't interact with it. you don't make it your mission to disprove the other person. you don't actively seek out opportunities to hate on a point of view you dislike. that's not how fandom is supposed to be. find your people, and chill with them.

let's all be positive in the various fandom spaces.

i hadn't intended that to be such a rant, but...well, there you have it. sorry it probably was not what you wanted to hear, but yeah. thanks again for the ask!!

[absolutebl]

10 BLs to Watch if You Loved KinnPorsche

It’s really hard for me to understand exactly why you liked a thing, anything, let alone a phenomena of pop culture. Also there is nothing exactly like KP. With those two codicils in mind, I will do my very best. 

So here are 10 things I’m going to assume you are looking for. 

higher heat levels - things get steamy 

lower angst levels - external conflict (rather then internal agony and navel gazing) 

good chemistry (not the same thing as heat) - this means the actors are good at portraying physical, mental, and emotional attraction to each other

action

grey morality 

multiple couples 

mature characters

non-school setting

longer length treatment

a happy ending 

I do hope I’ve gotten it right. This BL list will be rated on a scale of #/10 KP rating system - one point for each of the above, half points allowed. (Which is NOT my normal BL rating system.) 

Some things that I can’t really help you with: 

Explicitly kinky characters. There is very little of this in light BL (stories with happy endings) and what there is I’ve a listed here. 

Mafia or yakuza set dramas are more common in dark BL. There are a few exceptions, but none of them have the bodyguard trope of KP. 

Trigger warnings: assume if it happened in KP it may happen in these. including the stuff people argued over and disliked. Also dubcon and few others nasties. (Why so much dubcon in BL?)

Narrative structure. As you probably noticed in KP, strong story structure is not a hallmark of BL, but rather the exception. So far there have been only a few great strongly written high concept and killer narrative BLs. 

Let’s start, shall we? 

Loved KinnPorsche? Try These BLs Next

1. Manner of Death 

(Thailand 2021) WeTV 

This is a gay romantic suspense featuring a doctor and a mafia character. It’s more a murder mystery investigation with multiple plot twists than a mafia romance, but it is tons of fun. It’s stars the Original Kings of BL IRL ships: MaxTul. Also two of the hottest bodies in BL. 

KP rating 9.5/10 

It has higher heat levels, low angst (there is no angst at all, really, these boys got other things to do), great chemistry, action, grey morality, multiple couples (kinda - this is where it flails at bit so I dinged it 1/2 a point), mature characters, a country + medical setting, longer length treatment AND a happy ending. 

What to watch next if this was your favorite off this list? Triage or Dear Doctor, I’m Coming for your Soul. 

2. Trapped 

AKA HIStory 3: Trapped 

(Taiwan 2019) Viki 

Basically the definition of enemies to lovers. Is about a cop investigating a cold case where a mafia boss is the only witness, so he starts chasing him. Along the way to solving it, they fall in love. Side characters = mercenary hitman meets nerdy cop of his dreams, cooks for him. All the leads are stellar. It’s high heat, fun action, and a bit of a mystery drama but is pretty about all of it. My only warning is that the main couple doesn’t entirely end up together, it’s implied, but... amorphous ending. The sides end happily tho. 

KP rating 9.5/10 

Contains mature characters, non-school setting, higher heat, lower angst, great chemistry, action (some of it the SAME action, these two run through the woods hand-cuffed together for days too), grey morality, multiple couples, and a longer length - only the ending falters. 

You want HIStory 3: Trapped NOT the other HIStory 3! 

If you’ve been frustrated by the heat levels and setting of Thai BLs since KP, then that’s because you need to turn your attention to Taiwan instead. Taiwan specializes in high heat levels and non-school settings. (They have some, but it’s not their focus.) 

What to watch next if this was your favorite on this list: HIStory 2: Crossing the Line, DNA Says Love You, and you can explore the top 10 I talk about in my Taiwan’s history with the genre post. A warning, do not take Trapped as a typical example of HIStory franchise, it’s all over the place.  

3. Long Time No See 

(Korea 2017) GaGa 

Long Time No See is about two assassins who fall in love via online gay fanfic without knowing they are hitmen on opposite sides of a turf war. Or do they? It’s absolutely great and very under appreciated. One of Strongberry’s few longer pieces (but still short by Thai BL standards) with good fight sequences and very suspenseful. 

KP rating 8/10 

Contains all KP elements except multiple couples and a longer length: mature characters, non-school setting, high heat, low angst, good chemistry, action, grey morality, and a happy ending.

What to watch next if this was your favorite on this list: Actually you might try some of Japan’s darker stuff, I’m thinking Double Mints, for example. 

4. Not Me

(Thailand 2022) YouTube 

This is crime thriller BL-lite about a group of motorcycling malcontents bent on bring down a corrupt system. Overtly queer, the romantic threads are not entirely the narrative drivers and it’s very slender on tropes, making this one, like MoD more gay romantic suspense than BL. But if gritty tension is what you’re after, this one has that in spades. 

KP rating 7/10

It’s pretty low heat, this is OffGun+GMMTV and heat is not what they do. It has some angst because of the twin thing and the political thing (but not as much as I expected). The characters are not mature by my personal standards, they do act with the idealism of youth and they are in university some of the time. Otherwise ticks all the boxes: good chemistry, action, grey morality, multiple couples, longer length treatment, and a happy ending.

What to watch next if this was your favorite on this list: you can try OffGun’s back catalogue but it’s probably not what you’re looking for, try Bad Buddy instead and consider my favorite Thai BL, Until We Meet Again. 

5. 3 Will Be Free 

(Thailand 2019) YouTube

Is about a mafia kid, a stripper, and a grifter who accidentally kill a hitman and then have to go on the run with two assassins chasing them. Along the way the three of them basically fall in love with each other. You also get the mafia hitmen perspective. It’s GREAT and very queer. 

KP rating 6/10 

Low heat levels for this one because it’s from GMMTV. However it is also low angst (there consistent outside stressors and this plot moves FAST), good chemistry, lots of action, very grey morality, multiple couples (but with each other, this is a poly romance), is not set at school, and has a longer length treatment. However, the characters aren’t entirely mature and it has a slightly ambiguous ending - they survive and are kind-of together but also stuff has happened. I dinged it an extra point because technically this is a queer romance and not, actually, a BL at all. Still it’s a very under-appreciated gem of a show, and I highly recommend it. 

What to watch next if this was your favorite on this list: there’s nothing else out there like this show, sorry, it’s unique. However if you like Tay (Shin) you should watch his BL series the Kiss series and Dark Blue Kiss (watching guide here) where he plays a completely different personality. 

6. Irresistible Love 

AKA Irresistible Love: Secret of the Valet (YouTube) + Irresistible Love 2 AKA Uncontrolled Love (YouTube) 

(China 2016) grey 

This two movie series is mafia esk but it’s very rough and lacks narrative cohesion. Rich kid (maybe mafia) boss has obsession with his family’s butler in a classic execution of the whipping boy trope. It’s in two parts and the second part has two endings, you want the one that ends not entirely unhappily. I not-so-secretly love this BL: obsession, mutilation, very hard fought and absolutely classic Chinese BL pre-censorship. It's a wild melodramatic ride.

KP rating 6/10

This has higher heat levels (all are dub con), good chemistry, very grey morality, mature characters, non-school setting and a medium length treatment. It also has some serious angst because of the unequal power dynamic and the seme’s bisexuality, there’s little action, only one couple, and the ending is all over the place, happyish if you can find the right one. (As of typing this post: the YouTube links should still work, but this is a grey show it has no official distribution.) 

What to watch next if this was your favorite on this list: really? This one was your favorite? Okay then, how about trying My Beautiful Man AKA Utsukushii Kare? Or go for Addicted, if you want the best that China can do. 

7. Golden Blood 

(Thailand 2021) YouTube 

A Thai BL pulp with the whipping boy trope (attack dog variant) about a boy who is pulled off the streets because he has the correct blood type and trained to be the servant/caretaker/bodyguard of a rich mafia kid. They fall in love.

KP rating 5/10

This one has higher heat levels, multiple couples, a longer length treatment and a happy ending. But it is a Thai pulp so the production values are poor. There is some unnecessary angst as the characters are not mature and it is partly set in university, the chemistry is uneven (great with the sides but not the mains), there is action but it’s not very good, and grey morality (sort of). All in all, a mixed bag.

If you liked this best you have some pretty relaxed standards. why not lean in and try some MAME stuff like TharnType, Don’t Say No, or Love in the Air. Consider yourself warned. 

8. Unforgotten Night 

(Thailand 2022) iQIYI 

Ostensibly a kinky story of a mafia Dom who after a one night stand gets obsessed with a simple office worker and kidnaps him into his dark crime riddled world. But that made it sound appealing. It’s terrible. 

KP rating 5/10

It does have higher heat levels but they aren’t actually, ya know, good because the chemistry is poor, there’s a lot of unnecessary angst, there’s some action, grey morality, multiple couples, longer length treatment, and a happy ending but ho boy. It’s not a wild ride, it’s a confused and quite dull one. Also you will spend a lot of time worrying about plumbing, and not in a euphemistic way. 

If you liked this best, you're confused. You need to learn what good chemistry looks like, watch Zee’s catalogue - Why R U? and Cutie Pie. 

There is also Chains of Heart to consider. 

9. Where Your Eyes Linger 

(Korea 2020) Viki

Ostensibly high school set about a poor kid whose been raised in a mafia kid’s family specifically to protect him (whipping boy trope, attack dog variant). Themes of codependency and survival with pretty classic Korean style romance ending. 

KP rating 4.5/10 

Excepting Strongberry, Korean stuff is rarely high heat, this one gives you a kiss at the end but that’s it. Decent chemistry, only a little action, only one couple (also a hallmark of KBL), and short treatment. It does have grey morality and a happy ending (at the very last minute). The characters are not mature and it is set in high school. 

What to watch next if this was you favorite: you might try Hwang Da Seul’s other BLs To My Star or Blueming. I like the both a whole lot. 

10. Word of Honor

(China 2021) Viki also Youku’s YouTube 

Yes a censored Chinese bromance actually made one of my lists. But remember I’m rating this by KP standards, not my own. Normally I leave the censored stuff off my lists because I believe in censoring the censors. However, if anything gets on, it’s usually this one. 

This show is my favorite of the post 2016 bromance wave. It’s two murder-gay assassins (pining sunshine/tsundere), and they are so insanely gay for two boys who are never allowed to kiss. Tropes include: wuxia, soulmates, paranormal, historical, and fantasy elements.

KP rating 4/10

No heat, this is Chinese BL post censorship, some angst (China likes angst) but in this case it’s warranted, good chemistry, fantastic action, beautifully grey morals, there are other couples but only het and they die, a VERY long treatment, and an ambiguous ending.

If this was your favorite go ahead and watch Untamed (knowing they don’t end up together) or even The Guardian. You might also try Advance Bravely if only to see our boy Jun swap seme for uke. That’s kind of a bodyguard romance. 

And that’s it, those are my recs. Feel free to leave your own recs (and reasons) in the comments. 

This post is dated Sept 2022, not responsible for other BLs that come along after that date and fit the KP model better. 

That said, recent additions! 

Never Let Me Go

KP rating 7/10

This is a bodyguard romance with has lower angst, good chemistry, action, multiple couples (sort of), mature-ish characters, longer length treatment, a happy ending. However it is medium heat, no grey morality, and 1/2 in a school setting. 

The Sign

KP rating 9/10

Def has the higher heat levels, lower angst (it’s mostly external conflict), fantastic chemistry, and some grey morality, mature characters, non-school setting, longer length treatment, a happy ending. It’s only flaw is weak secondary couples. They there, but not awesome. 

This show is literally everything (except straight) all at once. It's BL, queer, band of brothers, romcom, erotica, PNR, fated mates, police procedural, fantasy, mystery, suspense, and slasher. It’s the king of genre mash-up chaos. Sure, it's madness but there is genius in it. Was it a crazy unhinged mess +1 roll for damage? Yes. Yes it was. Did it manage to hold all those tangled threads together? No it did not. Was it also a charmg, sexy, engaging, non-stop piece of entertainment? Sure thing. I think this show is basically my KinnPorsche, and frankly I’ve been chasing that dragon naga since KP aired. Is it perfect? No. But it was balls to the wall FUN. 

 (source) 

[mikkaeus]

Where’s that post about Macau going to the same school as chay bc their uniforms are the same 👀👀

[hellcheer-heaven]

I’ve been re-watching Kim Possible recently and I was inspired to draw Chrissy and Eddie as characters in the show. On the left is them in 1986, on the right is them sometime in the early 2000s. I’m not sure how I feel about their hair and Eddie’s outfit, haha.

I’d like to imagine Chrissy asking Kim for advice on a guy that she has a crush on, but is reluctant to say who it is. She honestly believes that he doesn’t even know that she exists. When Kim and Chrissy talk during lunch, Eddie gets up on the table to make a speech about nonconformity. Before Kim can make a sarcastic remake, she notices the lovey dovey way Chrissy is looking at him. When she informs Ron of a plan to set them up, he states that it’s impossible. To which Kim proudly reminds him that she can do anything.

Ron: Uh Kim, Chrissy is a cheerleader, Eddie is a freaky weirdo. Putting them together would disrupt the delicate balance of high school as we know it.

Kim: And you having a crush on Amelia, the most popular senior at Middleton, won’t “disrupt the delicate balance?”

Ron: KP, having a crush is totally different. We’re talking about a nice girl getting together with a bad boy here. Besides no one can resist the Stoppable charm.

Kim: Only if that someone is small, naked, and fits in your pocket.

Rufus: Hey!

[daeyeol4you]

The Chay Rewatch Ep. 4

As part of my KP Rewatch, I’m going to be commenting on each episode and analyzing the different Chay scenes. He’s my favorite character, and I thought I’d put down my thoughts (as well as timestamps for his scenes) as a fun way to express that.

Ep 1 & 2, Ep 3

This one is gonna be two-parter because Tumblr has character limits, please look at the reblog for part 2

Episode 4 - The Chay Drought ends, KimChay begins

Gang we are finally back to seeing Chay outside of the previously on segment

Y’all when I tell you I was so excited for this episode

I’m so intrigued by what Porsche says in the sauna. Nampueng why the hell did you say that to baby Porsche? It does develop her character beyond the silent attic wife trapped by Korn though. Clearly, growing up as an adopted child in the mafia world hardened her enough that she felt okay saying this to a child.

Also her saying this about Chay is very telling. Porsche is the heir, the one trapped by parental expectations in a world he doesn’t like (like Kinn???). He has the responsibility to bear whatever he has to in order for Chay to be free. Chay was always meant to be outside of the mafia narrative and escape in a way Nampueng knew her first born never could. Or maybe she wanted to raise a fighter and a strategist, who knows.

Time: 26:00 – 31:19 – Return of the Best Boi

Our longest Chay scene yet, this scene is so long and I kept pausing it to write down every thought in my head.

Chay, I thought we’d never see you again

Sidenote, what’s the name of the friend Chay is with? I think the fandom named him Ohm? Because I’ve seen that name used in fanfics

 “We’ve got a kind graduate that will share his experience with us.” – I know this may be a translation thing, but isn’t Kim still a student at this university? We see him on campus later on in the series getting ragged on for not going to classes, so did the MC actually mean senior? Or maybe he graduated and then is doing his master’s at the same school?

Also, very glad we somewhat got an age on Kim since if he’s a graduate or a senior that puts him in the 21-24 age range, and since Chay is looking at schools to apply to, he’s probably 18/19 age range (yes I know Barcode was younger than that at the time of filming, but Jeff is definitely older than 21-24 so I’m not going to go by actor age). Not the worst age difference, but definitely one that exists.

Chay’s Outfit: Chay immediately stands out in the crowd with his baby blue school uniform and khaki pants. Almost every other student is wearing a very, very pale pink or blue shirt with dark shorts or skirts. The viewer is immediately capable of picking out Chay among the crowd and keeping an eye on him, a hard thing for costuming to achieve when the scene is meant to be a bunch of students all dressed nearly the same. Also, Chay’s school crest says BOC International and he doesn’t have his name sewn onto his shirt like the rest of the students (I’m assuming those are names, if I’m wrong please correct me)

“Who’s that?” “It’s Wik. How could you not know?” – Chay babes, please don’t attack your bestie like that.

Chay’s friend not knowing who Wik is when Chay literally has a whole obsessive fanboy thing going on, very interesting. I understand this is to tell the audience who Wik is, but it also says a lot about Chay’s relationship with his friends. Chay is really good at hiding things when he wants to, we see that throughout the series. The only person he doesn’t really hide anything from is Kim, and that’s honestly partially because Chay has the self-confidence of a god and Kim likes ferreting out secrets.

“I want to study here because of him.” – Oh Chay, you cute little delulu stalker. I know this gets ignored because there are so many other, bigger red flags in this story, but Chay deadass stalks Kim. And no joke, Kim falls for him because of it and later stalks him back. Soulmate behavior I guess. Chay’s red flag is a high school story red flag instead of a mafia storyline red flag so it gets buried. And Chay’s friend 100% sees that. Bro nods his head while internally going damn the delulu runs deep in this one.

Kim’s Wik Outfit: The brown leather jacket with the red lining and silver studs, the insane amount of silver jewelry, the white pants! This is such an outfit. The tendrils of hair artfully hanging in his face. Good shit. Did I stare at Jeff’s hands to see if he was wearing his family ring? Yes, and I won’t be taking questions about it.

“I’ve realized that you’re my good memory. The empty calendar is now full of your name.” “Your laughter that makes me feel like it’s Friday.” - Now I want to dissect this song because this song foreshadows the KimChay relationship so hard, and you don’t really pay much attention to it during your initial viewing because obviously the viewer first time round has no idea what kind of angst KimChay is headed for. Why Don’t You Stay gets all of the praise (obviously she’s the work horse of this drama) while this song gets crumbs. Kim singing this song in front of the person he’s going to fall in love with, who turns into the one good thing in his life, who’s ‘tutoring sessions’ (i.e. the two spy missions and medley of dates afterward) take over his calendar, and who’s laughter makes his heart warm (and 100% haunts him after he makes Chay cry)

I’m really interested in how big of a star Wik is. Chay’s friend doesn’t know him, but he’s obviously popular enough that his university (probably in exchange for some extra credit since Kim skips so much) has him as a headliner for their open house. He even draws a good-sized crowd who seem very knowledgeable about his work not just randoms who are touring the school like Chay’s friend.

I’m sorry bowl cut, drumstick boy has the best reactions throughout this scene. During Wik’s performance, dude is rocking out, and his exuberant thumbs up to what Wik says kills me. He may not be as wild as Chay, but bro is a big Wik fan so I support him. In comparison, Chay is very calm and quiet while watching his idol. He only shows his emotions when he can’t answer the questions and rants about Wik’s MVs.

Kim comes off so cold throughout this scene. The look on his face after he finishes his bit and the MC comes back on stage is dead inside. He is done. He does not want to be here. He wants to go write some songs and add pictures to his conspiracy board. I’m not saying that Kim dislikes performing and being Wik, no. I just think Kim likes the music more than he likes the performance. The public persona of Wik definitely helps him stay away from Korn’s machinations, but I think if Kim could have his music without the people aspect of being a musician he would in a heartbeat. But he puts up with it to stay away from his father.

Chay knowing all of the answers and correcting people. The looks he give the people who answer instead of him is as close to murderous as he gets in this series. If not for the laws of this land and the fact that Porsche doesn’t let him have a knife, he would have stabbed a bitch.

Anyways, there’s my obsessive fan boy! I am not joking when I say Kim fell for him because of his obsessive stalker tendencies. And his friend hyping him up, saying he’ll get the next question, and even trying to get the MC to pick Chay when literally less than an hour ago he had no idea who Wik was or the scale of Chay’s obsession. Need me a friend like that.

Speaking of, the absolute change in Kim’s expression when Chay goes on his little tangent. Bro deadass finally had some life in his eyes. He is shook and falling in love all at the same time. MC has to nudge Kim to get him out of his heart eyes moment.

I maintain that if Kim hadn’t gone all Kimlock Holmes about Porchay being Porsche’s brother he still would have obsessed over the cute boy who has the same obsessive red flag as him. KimChay are freaks who love a bit of stalking.

Bowl Cut’s “Even I didn’t know that. Who the hell are you?” – bro does Wik only have obsessive fans? Also yes, fear Chay’s power Bowl Cut Boy.

I am not gonna lie Barcode towering over people around him is so funny to me. He is baby, but that baby is six feet tall.

Chay is so happy when Kim offers to give him something else!!