#like oliver said you can interpret it that way

[eddiediazismyhusband]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response! I definitely see Eddie leaning towards gay as well. If anything I think he’s demi just based on the way he has such a hard time connecting to his past love interests (who he barely knew before dating) vs Shannon (his best friend) and how he treats that relationship. I’m not sure I’m fully on the aro Eddie train yet either but I love hearing everyone else thoughts. I was just curious about it because as someone who discovered they were aro-spec later in life as an adult, a lot of Eddie’s behaviors and things he’s said (dating feeling like a performance standing out a lot to me) just really resonate with the way I feel. Plus regardless of whether you ship Buddie platonically or romantically, there’s just something incredibly queer about their dynamic.

Even if we never get Buddie (I still believe we’re heading in that direction tho!) their relationship just screams queer platonic life partners to me which is something I don’t think I’ve ever really seen on TV and it’s just soooo important to me.

Ryan’s interviews truly mean so much to me for all the reasons you said. I love how much he loves Eddie and how much love and respect he not only treats him, but h tbh e fans.

Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts! I love hearing your perspective and obviously these are only my thoughts/opinions as a probably very biased ace aro-spec queer woman. Lots of love! Hope your day…night…morning also is going amazing <3

No I agree, Ryan’s interviews always showcase how much love and care he has for both the fans and the characters, especially with how supportive he is of the fans interpreting Eddie in a way they can relate too, and how important that is to have a character like that.

Like I’ve mentioned plenty of times before I deeply relate to Eddie for various reasons, and having Ryan say that those of us who do are seen and heard in our love for the character is so special.

I may not always like that he gets put in PR jail and sometimes has to be really can-y, scripted, answering-without-really-answering questions in interviews when we all know that man is a little chaos demon who lives on trying to back the writers into a corner (along with oliver, forever the captains of our ship 🫡) but even still, you can always tell that he is so deeply intune with Eddie and how much the audience loves and cares for him, and all the nuances and complexities that come with a character like him.

I genuinely mean this when I say it, but I don’t think I have ever seen a character with as much emotional complexity and depth on a procedural drama, and i unfortunately think that’s a reason why so many people don’t like him because they don’t necessarily understand where he’s at mentally, and where he has come from, which just makes him all the more special to me.

I love getting to dive deep into the minds of characters, so your original ask (and this one too!) was so fun for me to sit down and think out— thanks for giving me an excuse to yap about eddie 💕💕

[xofemeraldstars]

Confession: I think that Tommy and Buck have more chemistry than Eddie and Buck and I wish Kinley was endgame 😭 I want Tommy to become part of the main cast so badly

heyyy!! well bestie i'm on you on the bucktommy/kinley endgame train!! (if it wasn't obvious from my posts lol) it's the potential of it all ya know? and the way tommy is connected to the 118 and he's a first responder as well, i can truly see them developing a beautiful relationship 😊 also excited to maybe getting more air support involvement🚁👀

but yeah i've been rewatching eps here and these since s7 started and then started a chronological rewatch from s2 (don't look at me i didn't have s1 downloaded yet lol) after 7x4 and yeah without the shipper goggles... they're best friends <3<3

[blazinghotfoggynights]

Can Team Tuck and Team Buddie please agree that both can exist and serve as positive spaces for queer male representation?

I've been thinking. Let me run something by you.

Oliver says he has always felt Buck was a bi-coded character? Right?

Does that mean when TK thought Buck was hitting on him, he was?

If Buck was always bi, but just didn't know it, are we supposed to believe he never flirted with Eddie just because his first kiss was with Tommy?

Was Tommy his bi awakening or was Tommy the embodiment of the attractive traits he has seen in a man he's been falling for over five seasons?

You can like or even love multiple people. Even at the same time! 😮

Believing that Buddie is or should be the endgame does not negate or disrespect Buck's arc with Tommy in any way. I question if Tommy was just a convenient character. He's a safe guy to explore Buck's evolution with. He has a history with members of the 118, but he is not integral to the cast. If it doesn't work out, he is easily explained away. Remember Natalia?

I think it is possible to have a Buck and Tommy centered arc, focused on Buck becoming comfortable with his sexuality and exploring it in a healthy, positive way and still have Buck and Eddie eventually realize they have been each other's person for years. Having both doesn't make the other any less important. How many people have dated others when their eventual life partner was right there? They had no idea they saw that person in that way.

Now that we know Buck is bi, it could lead to different interpretations of scenes:

Buck is looking at Eddie. Tommy is not there and we don't know for sure who Eddie was speaking to.

2. Look at that smile and his eyes at the end. Buck positively beams and bats his eyes when he realizes Eddie is going to look at him. That's how platonic friends look at each other?

3. But we can take it all the way back if we have to. Look at Buck when Eddie compliments him.

3b. Do you know what that reminds me of?

4. If Buck has subconciously been into guys for a long time, then this scene takes on a whole new context.

Moving closer to the other man? Check.

Eye contact? Check?

Smile and shy head duck? Check.

*I'd like to state that I have no doubt Edmundo Diaz knew Buck was into him. Look at the reaction.

5. When I'm into someone, you know what I don't talk about? Someone else.

6. Wow. Look at how Buck looks at Tommy.

6b. We have never seen that before have we?

Buck x Tommy and Buck x Eddie can coexist in harmony. Life stories are long and have jumpscares, plot twists, plot holes, etc.

Buck being genuinely attracted to Tommy doesn't mean that all the scenes from the past five seasons that made us all side-eye Evan Buckley didn't happen.

If we never get Buddie, let's just take the win. ABC said, "There are queer men in the world who are masculine, hot, and relatively stable. Let's show that."

Do we really need to talk about how the LGBTQ community was represented on their former network? I could stand on that soapbox and go off for days. Let's just say I know others who also felt some way about it, whether they were straight, queer, or allies.

I am just going to enjoy what is shaping up to be an amazing season. Moving to ABC breathed new life into 911 and I am excited. (Season six? Can we just not talk about it?)

[island-in-the-shadows]

On Felix Catton & Disgust/Desire

I had been waiting for a long while now to write this post. I wanted to do another full re-watch before I got into it because the ideas for this have been sitting in my mind for a long time. This is going to be a long post and, hopefully, not super pretentious. Most of us fans of Saltburn know, to some degree or another, that the core themes of the film revolve around disgust, desire, and obsession. And the biggest entry point to discuss this is the actions of our protagonist, Oliver Quick re the object of his disgust/desire/obsession Felix Catton.

I've written before that I believe that Oliver did know Felix and that Felix was emotionally vulnerable and candid with Oliver. I further stated that we, the audience, are forbidden from knowing the details of this intimacy because Oliver does not want us to truly know Felix. This means that the bits we get of Felix are small and very subtle. It means that we can interpret Felix's core personality, true intent, true desires in a litany of ways. My opinion is, realistically, no more valid than anyone else's. But for today, I wanted to discuss what I view, from the bits that we get, is Felix's relation with the core themes of the film. And, because I saw a truly heinous takes about a different fandom I'm in and I don't want to think about it, my brain said: hey...let's talk about Felix Catton and his disgust and desire.

Pt. 1: "Only rich people can afford to be this filthy."

When Oliver says the above, he and Felix are in Felix's messy and disgusting dorm room at Oxford. When you take a closer look at the room (which I admit was difficult on my first few views because Felix is lit and positioned to take all of your focus), it is a total shit show. There's clothes everywhere, empty containers everywhere, other unidentifiable debris...honestly wouldn't shock me if there was some used condom somewhere. We know from Oliver that, not only does it look like chaos, it smells terrible. However, Felix is unbothered. He is concerned only with the heat which, in this case, is an external force that he cannot control no matter his good looks, his charms, his pedigree, or his money. By what we see, Felix is quite happy and content in the filth. It is only when Oliver points out the filth and points out that Felix won't take care of it, that Felix reacts negatively.

Felix, as we know, is very accustomed to his messes being cleaned up for him. Before we even get to Saltburn it's a safe assumption to make. Prior to college/uni, he would've gone to some posh boarding school or other. I doubt that they were made to clean everything in boarding school (though if any of you know please let me know). We also know that wealthy people tend to have hired staff who clean for them. This is a young man who has never had to clean up his spilled milk and it has never even occurred to him to do it.

However, the important bit to note is not that Felix is messy and that it doesn't occur to him to clean. What's important to note is that the mess simply does not bother him. Just because he is born to extreme wealth and privilege does not mean that he would have to be this way. There's been germaphobe rich people or people who prefer to have a minimalistic space or any number of things. Regardless of wealth, some people are fine with mess and some people require mess to be done away with immediately. Felix is in the former category. He certainly must notice the mess at some point (even if, clearly, he's nosebleed to it) but he is comfortable in his space.

This is also true of his room at Saltburn. We barely see it, I know, but let's take a look at that glossy af pic of it from the Architectural Digest Article...

There is crap EVERYWHERE. The more you look at it the more crap you find. You can't even say that it's perfectly clean either because there's dirty clothes in spots, there's multiple pillows on the ground, there's a random used water glass, there's either toilet paper or paper towels on the night stand, the bed isn't perfectly made, I could go on. Chaos and filth and mess is, technically, Felix's natural habitat. It's the kind of mess that is surrounded by opulence, certainly, but it's still a mess.

Only rich people can afford to be this messy because they can also dictate when and where their staff cleans. Presumably, there are things in Felix's bedroom (perhaps the toilet paper/paper towels which have a...purpose) which he has instructed Duncan to leave alone. Or Elspeth has put terms for how often the maids come in the rooms. It could be framed in a multitude of ways. The point stands that Felix can exist in these chaotic and, even, disgusting spaces because he chooses to be. What his privilege does, then, is afford him absence from judgment.

We see the staff at Saltburn clean up after the party. We see that they quietly replaced a broken mirror before anyone can question the cracks. We never see the staff judge. Do they? Certainly they must, we all have opinions. But do they express their judgement to the masters of the house? No. It's not their place to do so. They are considered staff and therefore their opinions do not come into play for the Cattons nor would they want to hear them. Even Duncan's genuine unease and grief after Felix dies is mostly kept under control. He's not paid to express his emotions or his thoughts, after all.

And why go into all of this? Because Felix is content to live in the mess, to revel in the gross and in some version of the abject. What Felix cannot handle is being confronted with his pleasure. To me, this (along with wanting to separate Oliver from staff when the younger boy starts actively cleaning) is the main reason why he snaps when Oliver points out the disgusting state of the dorm. He does not need or want to know how he fits outside a specific role that he was born to play and, likely, believes he has to play. Even if it didn't occur to him to clean, he could've used his wealth and influence to find someone to clean for him. But he didn't. Because it doesn't bother him. Oliver being bothered and pointing out that Felix is so wealthy that he can live in the filth is what bothers him, instead.

Pt. 2 "Was it? Was it awful?"

I am going to keep this section short, because there have been much better posts about this and I, personally, go back and forth on this all the time. Regardless, Felix having an interest in a made up fantasy of a shitty childhood and what he can, likely, envision as some Dickensian nightmare of a situation falls into his relation to disgust and desire. What Felix knows of true poverty and addiction likely comes from media or exaggerated stories from people who have been in contact with someone who was an addict or something to that extent. His imagination must be running wild with theories. And while I do think that he did have good intentions regarding Oliver when it comes to this, his demeanour also shows an attraction to the grotty aspects of it. Oliver only ever calls him out on this, to a degree, in the maze. Before this, Felix can be interested in what he imagines is the horror of Oliver's childhood but not be caught out as being a tragedy whore or someone with a saviour complex or anything else, because his interest is not being pointed out. Again, he has an interest or desire for mess and chaos as long as it is not pointed out.

Pt. 3 "You're supposed to be here with me."

Let's, briefly, talk about queerness. Let's talk about how Felix has an image to maintain. How he has expectations put upon him. Yes, he has privilege and wealth beyond understanding, but these things often have a tradeoff. Celebrities, for example, have to forfeit a lot of their privacy. Royalty and nobility (regardless of country) often forfeit chunks of their privacy and the possibility of living outside of a script (publicly, at any rate). Felix CANNOT go off script.

He is implied to be the heir to Saltburn and everything that comes with it: money, land, title, expectations. Like in the days of old, it's probably expected of him to produce an heir. It's also expected of him to marry a lady from his class in order to produce said heir. And, back in 2006/7, people were less acceptating of LGBTQ+ people that they are now, and Same-Sex marriage was not a thing in the UK and it wouldn't be for another 7 or so years. So Farleigh, who will inherit nothing and only ever be given scraps, can embrace his queerness; Felix cannot.

Personally, I believe that Felix did have some sort of interest in Oliver. It's not just in the fact that he is possessive of Oliver to the point of disregarding his family. It's in all the Bambi eyed looks that we see Felix give Oliver. You could argue that these are exaggerations from Oliver but then, how do you explain the POV shots we get of Felix looking at Oliver? How they are also romance coded, lustful, pinky and fluffy? There is something there. To what extent there was something is pure conjecture. But, I personally believe that he had some kind of feelings for Oliver but could not express those feelings and, to an extent, found his feelings for Oliver disgusting.

Even if his mother is, in her way, tolerant of queer people, this does not mean that she would be ok with Felix being with a man. I doubt his father, who is in his 60s at the time, would be any happier about it. Again, Felix needs to have an heir and take over Saltburn. So, at most, they would've tolerated that Felix had a "friend" tucked away somewhere that Felix could go to every so often. Queerness is not the desired outcome and so, at some point, Felix would've had to separate any feelings from the matter. And, hypothetically, in boarding school any hand jobs etc. from other boys would be viewed as part of a norm that exists within the realm of "no homo."

So, given he has been emotionally intimate with Oliver and, given that he has felt more for Oliver than he probably thinks he should, he feels disgust as much as he feels desire. He can, and personally I think does, want Oliver, but feels disgusted by his feelings and has a strong desire to keep them channeled in the "appropriate" way. Just the same, he gets jealous and he does not want to share. He cannot abide by Oliver being free to pursue another partner (guarantee he would be equally as incensed if he had found out about Farleigh and it probably would've slightly registered had Oliver actually slept with Indabel). It's specifically a slap in the face that it's Venetia who has done this kind of thing before and who is allowed to be physical with these friends of Felix's with whom Felix does not feel he could or should be physically intimate. Thus, the possession and the jealousy and the spurned wife behaviour of it all.

Pt. 4 "You make my fucking blood run cold."

Bref, I think Felix had good intentions but poor thinking skills when he wanted to take Oliver to his parents' house. Multiple posts have discussed this bit and I do think he wanted to further trauma bond with Oliver the way they further trauma bonded when Oliver's dad "died", afterwards, per the script, they were "closer than ever." And then they had that intimate moment on the bridge and spent some time there completely alone instead of being at a giant party. I think he thought that the experience would bring them closer and that he would be there to, in his way, protect Oliver. And I still think this plays in to all the little ways in which Felix desires disgust and is disgusted by his desires. But he does it anyway.

The betrayal of trust and intimacy that follows has to feel like a bomb has gone off in Felix's mind. But what's worse for him, again this is solely my opinion, is that he still desires Oliver regardless. It might not have fully formed in his head and he then dulled it with drugs and alcohol and with his shoddy attempt at fucking Indabel in the maze, but possibly the inkling of why Oliver lied the way he did had entered his brain. Oliver already tried to explain. Told Felix in the hallway when they got back that he wanted to be Felix's friend. And Felix likely relived his entire relationship with Oliver including what Oliver just told him. And, to me, Felix was not entirely opposed to it. He didn't immediately kick out Oliver or cause too much of a fuss. He wanted space. He wanted to not think about it for a while. But Oliver forced his hand.

Again, here we have a Felix who is disgusted by his desire. A Felix who, deep down, knows that he likes that Oliver lied. That he likes that Oliver desires him so much that he would do anything for him. Likes that, despite NEVER wanting anyone to know the most debauched parts of him, Oliver is close to knowing all of his darkest parts and loving him for them just the same. But a Felix who, nonetheless, does not allow himself to revel in the filth once it's pointed out.

And Oliver points it out. In a big way. "Everyone puts on a show for Felix! [...] doesn't this just prove how much of a good friend I actually am? How well I actually know you!" He does know him. Felix knows this. Felix CANNOT go off script. Felix cannot acknowledge his love for things that are disgusting or less than savoury. So too he cannot allow them or acknowledge them here. And then we have something in the script vs. how Jacob actually looked that's what inspired me to write this overly long post in the first fucking place.

This is not the exact beat. Because this is after Felix says his line about his blood running cold. The vibe is the same, though. Regardless...is THAT the fact of disgust? Because to me, that is not disgust. That is some form of desire that most mortals will never experience. But then...it also IS disgust. Because the two are intertwined for him. Because he desires because of the disgust at the situation and at the lengths of debasement Oliver will go to to please him. He is a boy who loves mess and chaos and who makes his home there. And, to whatever extent, his heart could've made a home in the mess and chaos and filth that Oliver brought to the table. Even if Felix has to be disgusted at his desires and prevent them. Even if Oliver took any option or opportunity away from Felix.

Oliver makes his blood run cold, but Felix never said that was a bad thing. And it isn't. Just as Oliver revels in the filth of bodies and their fluids and the inferred possession that comes with them, so too Felix revels in the filth of places and things he shouldn't want and things he can only truly savour in the shadows where no one points them out.

TL;DR Felix is as much of a freak as Oliver is, though in a different way. He is shown to be comfortable and even like messy and gross things but, he only does so when it's not pointed out. He can be, to a point, physically close and emotionally intimate with Oliver and, even partially overlook a betrayal of this intimacy, but only if it's never pointed out. Only if it doesn't break with the expectations and social script on which he has been raised and to which he has to stick. He serves to demonstrate the relationship with disgust and desire as much as Oliver does, but his relation is more subtle and harder to see. And maybe, just maybe, given time, he would've at least bent the script.

--------------------------------------0--------------------------------------

Super sorry for how long this is, I just needed to get it out! Thanks to @ollieapologist for being my biggest cheerleader about this post. Sorry if this is incoherent!

[queerxqueen]

No but I feel like the theory that Felix liked Oliver back is definitely plausible, isn't it? The cheek kiss, hand on thigh, giving him his clothes, not liking when Oliver hooked up with the sister, them often standing close together, even the jerk off session with the open door can all be interpreted that way, right? Or are these moment supposed to be loaded but ultimately mean nothing? What is your theory?

Ahhhh thank you for the ask! Yes, definitely!!! It's less of a theory so much as a particular reading of the film that folks can either agree with or disagree with.

Did Felix love Oliver?

On one hand - we see Felix being so affectionate in their very first meeting, and I do think that was intentional as a way to show that Felix is just like that. Unguarded and affectionate and warm. When his attention is on you, you feel like the most important person in the world. It's just that he eventually grows tired and throws you away and moves on. (See: Eddie. Annabel. "Last year's one.") You're not actually special, you're just the latest of his play things.

So I do think that reading of things is valid.

But god, to me, the idea that Felix at least at some point loved Oliver back makes the tragedy of it all so much richer and tragically beautiful.

It's the things you said - the casual affection. The blatant flirting. The lingering glances over dinner and the intimacy of all their silent communications. The door left open to their shared bathroom while he touches himself. The jealousy and possessiveness. The genuine betrayal and hurt under it all when he discovers Oliver's lies. Nearly kissing Oliver in the maze, despite everything. The protectiveness and savior's complex as a reflection of a sort of misguided white knight romantic hero ideal Felix wants to fulfill. The Juliet-esque angel costume, his illusion that his story is a romance.

But Oliver is so focused on making himself indispensable, so worried about being another one of Felix's old forgotten toys, that he doesn't see that Felix feels something for him too. And then everything goes wrong, when Felix finds out his lies, and Oliver thinks it's too late.

And that's the tragedy, really - that it might not have actually been too late. That if he'd given Felix space and time, he might not have lost Felix from his life completely. As Oliver said, "I mean, we’re going to laugh about this."

Because Felix does care about Oliver. Even after the lie. In the maze scene, he's still looking after Oliver, still caring about him. ("I think you need to see someone. You need help." / "Better?" / "I think you should go to bed.") That kind of gentle is so different from the posturing Felix did toward Oliver earlier in the party ("I tried to be nice but can you fuck off and bother somebody else?") and it shows that, even if Felix is throwing a fit and stewing in his emotions as he does, he still cares about Oliver and wants him to be okay. He wasn't throwing Oliver away just yet. Oliver just thinks he is.

Because Oliver has been waiting for and fearing this moment from the very beginning of their relationship, has seen so many examples of Those Left Behind By The Cattons. He thinks this is it, and he panics. He's impulsive and emotional, despite wanting too seem calculated. He reacts out of hurt and fear, and in doing so, ruins the only chance of getting what he truly wants. He self destructs, and hurts Felix before Felix has the chance to hurt him any more.

And isn't that self-destruction so much more tragic when it isn't inevitable, it isn't justified, but just an emotional reaction? When there was still a chance for a happy ending, but Oliver couldn't see it?

So all this to say (and wow this got long, sorry)... Felix loving Oliver is definitely up for debate depending on how you read Felix's character, but I do think the possibility of him loving Oliver makes the tragic ending that much more gorgeous and real.

[shedontlovehuhself]

Yeah, it sucks that Bobo and Misha were not given the space to talk about the confession scene in the same way Oliver and the 911 peeps are doing with Buckley right now. Cas' coming out and his "I love you" to Dean should have gotten a bigger celebration than just Misha speaking about it on his own. Hell, Ruthie and other cast members tried to show support online and got shut down by haters and antis. Misha should not have been the only one out there in 2020 and 2021 talking about it. But he was. And yes, prior to 15x18 he went from safely playfully supporting Destiel to full on doing so right after the confession scene. Even without backup from his costar. Just like he was the only one to actively advocate for HIS character's canon queerness. Where was EW for Misha back in 2020? They definitely spoke to Jensen about it. And no, chaos machine had nothing to do with Misha talking about queer Castiel. The way certain Jensen fans try to give credit where it isn't earned and using Misha to do so should be studied.

And I'll add that yes, Jensen has grown over the years. He's more accepting of fans canon of bi Dean and has always happily signed and praised destiel fan art. He's proud of what Misha did with Cas and has said that Dean and Cas should have a conversation about what happened. But he still hasn't said the words Cas is queer. He still can't say destiel. He also has said in so many ways he doesn't see Dean as queer and even has stated Cas' confession can be open for interpretation. So while I'm proud of his obvious growth, y'all not bout to give him credit for what Misha was out here doing on his own.

I remember when everyone was saying Jensen has no power at CE cons. So now that the narrative calls for it, y'all are now saying he has power at CE. Suggesting that he made changes with said power that coincides with Misha talking more openly about queer at CE is truly a reach.

- Momento con in 2021(non CE con) where Misha happily talked about queer castiel and cas and Dean wanting to bang each other.

- German con in 2021 when Misha again talked about queer Castiel, Destiel, and had a positive reaction to a fan's "Dean is bi" t-shirt that had the audience cheering, meanwhile Jensen stans were crying on twitter that Jensen should be doing more euro cons (this was during Jensen's silent era, mind you).

- Misha's cameos where he had destiel trending and also talked about queer Castiel. He also talked about when Cas fell in love with Dean. Also the Cameo where he jokingly said "Cas, you can do better" about being in love with Dean.

- his virtual interviews in late 2020. And his pride posts each June. his interview when at a French con where he talked about Cas being a queer icon(y'all got mad at him for that one, too).

[leiflitter]

Hi I'm doing a research paper on antiheroes and I'm using Oliver as one example. Could you maybe tell me why he appeals to you as a character despite the murdering and the scheming etc

You come into my askbox while I sleep and make me think? First thing in the morning? BUT I SHALL ANSWER

won't make any sense probably but HEY!

I think the main reason I love Oliver is because I can see a lot of myself in him.

Cut bc this will be long af

Granted, my perspective on the character is... I spend a lot of time thinking about that idiot, so this is fully based on my interpretation of him buttttt

Okay, so the murders and scheming are firstly... Ambiguous. Elspeth is the only one we see as it happens- not in a flashback, big-twist, oh it was my evil plan all along #classwarfare #girlboss #theyhatetoseeabadbitchwinning way- and she's so far gone she's on a ventilator and just dies without it. How did she get so sick? It isn't mentioned. Honestly, as someone with long covid, she's wandering around London without a mask. LADY. YOUR LUNGS.

Everything else? The spiked bottle. The razorblades. They're shown to us at the end, this big gotcha moment... From someone who has clearly spent every moment since Felix Catton died trying desperately to gather some small piece of him.

His home is decorated like Saltburn. He's immediately trying to get back in. The moth battering itself against the window.

Whether or not Oliver Quick is an evil, scheming murderer is entirely down to your interpretation of that reveal montage. Mad props to Emerald for that.

My interpretation of it is... Not to say he's innocent, but that he's a sad, sad man grasping at straws to give himself more agency. He's spent years dwelling on and analysing the worst time of his life, and as a good Eng Lit student (dude was doing essays on Browning) he's turned it into a narrative.

If we stop suspending disbelief, then we have:

Felix

Oliver put some cocaine in a bottle (as evidenced by Oliver having the same sort of vial Farleigh has in the main hall). Oliver drank some. Felix drank some. He threw up, Felix died.

I have probably said this before, but Felix's death cannot be directly attributed to Oliver's actions.

Felix was in the bathroom, and although we don't see him doing lines, he's not just hanging out there for funzies. He's going hard, probably mixing drugs and booze. He's so off his tits that he doesn't notice how bad/bitter the booze Oliver gives him tastes. Plus there's a reason people snort cocaine; it's efficacy is highly reduced when eaten, and it takes far longer to reach the brain. How long would Felix have just stood in the maze? Waiting there like a sim with no activities queued until he keeled over?

It's likely that Felix overdosed, but it's really unlikely that Oliver was the sole cause, if he was the cause at all.

Venetia

He left razorblades near her. That's literally all we see. From Oliver as a character, I don't think he has the guts to actually, directly kill- and it wouldn't make sense to. He'd be found out immediately if he did- any sign of violence and the Cattons would have private investigators and all sorts at their disposal. He was in the next room. It'd be open and shut. I do think, from the blood on the floor, that she tried to go to his room for help and he ignored her- but!

Leaving something sharp near someone in distress is another shitty scheme. What was he going to do if she didn't notice them? What if she knocked them off the side of the tub accidentally? Was he going to leave her a post-it note like HI V PLS KYS LUV OLLIE to make sure she noticed them?

Another thing that often is kinda... Glossed over... Is that Oliver is a fuckin teenager, and he isn't as smart as he portrays himself.

Olls. Why would you fool about with Felix's sister in plain view of the house? Ollie. What exactly did you expect one email to do? Erase Farleigh from existence? Oliver. Mate. You left your phone in the bathroom? Where Felix "no boundaries" Catton could find it? Why? Did you need to play Snake in the bath THAT BADLY? Oliver. Why would you lie about something so easily disprovable? Oliver Quick, you started digging a hole and it became Felix's fucking grave.

Older Oliver has turned what happened into a narrative where He Has Agency. He did it, and he did it on purpose, because HE WASN'T IN LOVE WITH FELIX (he was in love with Felix). He had a plan, you see, it wasn’t him being desperate and trying anything, everything he could to stay close to Felix.

He wasn’t a weird, awkward teenager who went away from home, fell in love with someone entirely unobtainable- due to socioeconomic bracket, gender, the year, all of that- and was so desperate to be near Felix that he built an unsustainable web of lies that fell apart. I think the maze scene is Oliver at his most honest, because he doesn't understand why his performance is any different, other than the amount of effort he's put in.

No, he was evil. A bad guy. A wolf in sheep's clothing, Felix his innocent victim. He's a genius... Because what is the alternative for Oliver Quick?

Admit that he was little more than a child, lashing out, unable to accept his own feelings- as he's unable to accept them as an adult- and now...

The immutable fact is that Felix died, and Oliver will never be over it.

What's the safer option?

I was a mess and I might be responsible for this and I was lashing out and I might have killed the thing I loved most because I fucked it all up.

or

I did it all on purpose.

And... To bring this back to the question.

I have been Oliver Quick in the bit before the bike scene. I've watched people I'd like to be friends with, living a life I was too shy or scared to go after. I can remember desperately wanting to be cool, to have a backstory, to be compelling...

I just never got desperate enough to lie. And I'm doing pretty good now, but I fucking get it. To want that connection so badly, to yearn for the life you see other people living, to want to be someone other than yourself.

So y'know

That's why I love him.

[leandra-winchester]

I'm wondering how there are people who think killing off Tommy would lead to Buddie. Like for one outside of Shannon the show hasn't killed off any other love interest to write them out of the show and two the show would get so much negative press for it. Like I do not take people seriously when the bring up Tommy dying or Buck cheating as a way to facilitate Buddie canon because it would not endear most of the audience to them as a ship (not to mention Oliver Stark specifically said he doesn't want to go down the queer trauma route here so like I don't get why some people cite these as possibilities)

Yeah, I don't even know man. Fanfic brainrot or something (not that there's anything wrong with fanfic, obviously, but when you consume so much of it and it being very specific to your very personal liking, and then can't separate the expectations you have for fic from those you have for the show).

And I guess in a way I maybe fell for it too, with my past expectations for Buddie canon, because, in hindsight, I'm not sure Buddie canon - especially now after so much time has passed - would have feasibly happened. Not just because of studio politics or limitations on how many canon queer characters you can have among the main cast, but simply because you cannot believably pull off a mutual pining/slowburn romance in an ensemble show.

Buddie would only have worked if Eddie had taken some time to unravel all that repression, bit by bit, and we would have to see it, and that would have taken up too much room and time in a show that has a pretty big main cast.

It might have worked at the end of s5 when he went to therapy and all that, planting some seeds there and then fully following up on it in s6, but now? AFTER the whole Marisol and Shannon/Kim stuff? It would take A LOT to sell it not just to the general audience but, frankly, to people like me as well.

So I dunno, but I'm pretty convinced it's never going to happen. Both Oliver and Ryan have said/hinted that they wouldn't want it to happen purely as fan service; it would have to really make sense and be true to the characters and their journeys, and I agree.

But the BoBs don't listen; they take fragments of sentences and interpret them to fit their own agenda.

And then some of the most unhinged ones of them go and think killing off a love interest is one way to get there. And a lot of those comments or tags didn't read like purely 'jokes' either; there was sheer vitriol and hatred behind them. Which has very little to do with genuine or in any way valid outrage at the 'daddy kink' joke, but everything to do with someone getting in their way of their ship, and this time being an actual threat.

With female love interests, you could always write that off as the show being cowardly about it and not daring to make any of them queer. But now we have that queer representation, Buck is officially bi, and has a boyfriend with whom things are getting really serious, really fast.

And I get being sad and disappointed about Buddie not happening, but the amount of toxicity that has been directed at a) other fans b) the fictional characters and c) the actors/writers involved is ridiculous. This is a fucking TV show, after all. It's not real life, it's not politics or activism. It's just fiction (that gives us an unusual amount of queer rep for a mainstream network TV show!). If it doesn't spark joy, take a step back, stop watching, read and write fic, but don't be a toxic asshole about it.

[outrunningthedark]

To give people credit I have seen a lot less manipulation of what Ryan and Oliver actually said since the season final from the true buddie truthers*

I think there being no feelings realisation from either of them, and nothing that can be manipulated to be read that way, as well as the final BuckTommy scene being something that showed they're in a good place, has been the final nail in the coffin.

*the blogs that are normally praising the show to high heaven and legit seem to like both characters

Yep, regardless of where season 8 goes (Eddie's arc is much more open-ended than Buck's right now and I genuinely have no idea where Tim will take it), the finale left zero room for true interpretation. Buck didn't have to "abandon" a dinner date with Tommy for Eddie. Buck didn't have to "choose". Buck wasn't involved in the decision to have Chris go to Texas with his grandparents. (Eddie just sent him in the room one final time to see if Chris had changed his mind.) And since this fandom loooves to talk transitions, let's remember that THIS finale had the BuckTommy dinner scene right before Eddie's parents told him Chris asked to go back to Texas. The show WANTED to emphasize that they were currently living two separate and independent lives while still being BEST FRIENDS. Couple all of that with Ryan's closing interview reminding people that a man allowing himself to be vulnerable around his friends and family "doesn’t make you anything that the world might throw at you as a title" and, yeah...the message couldn't be any clearer right now.

[sevensoulmates]

I must say I'm kinda baffled by the way some people are reacting towards Tommy and Buck's scene. Like we may have bi Buck on the horizon so I think we all should be happy about it, I know we are all protective of our ship but this is a good thing because there has to be a catalyst, something that will make a change in Eddie and Buck relationship and this is it. Buck's bi realization is a must if buddie it's going to happen because if buddie does end being together it can't be sudden, it has to be built on. So I'm having a blast with Tommy's character 🤷 he's a funny guy.

Also I may know nothing about cinematography but that little scene there with Tommy, Buck and Eddie seemed important for a reason.

Btw I was wondering about this interview https://youtu.be/vlCRTTAfeYs?si=oiVXhkBu7WQ9hV_1

Because sometimes I still struggle with the real meaning behind some sentences or words in English, when Oliver said:

"You can’t have the audience interpretation in mind too much when you make the show. You have to make it and put it out in the world and people can take what they want."

Can this be interpreted as they wouldn't care if some viewers may have an homophobic reaction towards Eddie and Buck getting together or I'm reading things differently?

I understand people being sensitive to "another barrier" towards buddie but like...yeah, it's getting a little out of hand. It's fine to feel your feelings, but keep them in your group chat's or to your like-minded friends. Please don't make them other people's problems.

I am also having a blast with Tommy! I wasn't sure how they were going to take his character with the reintroduction given how he wasn't the most well-liked character in the Begins episodes. Again, if POC fans never want to forgive him or like him, that's totally fine. I won't ever get on people's cases for disliking him for his past actions. But I do think he'll prove to be interesting if he plays a role for Buck (and Buddie by extension).

I'll give you my personal interpretation (which could be up for debate) of what Oliver said in that interview. To me, he's saying, that he can't always be policing himself when he's acting by wondering "is the audience going to think I'm making this scene too gay?", "will they get mad at me and accuse me of queerbaiting if I act in certain ways with Ryan/Eddie in this scene?", etc. I think that Oliver is very aware of how he and his actions are perceived by the fandom. He's always been the one who has dealt with the brunt of people screaming "BUDDIE!" and "QUEERBAITER!" in his face. If the long-running theory that FOX was purposely not letting Buddie happen is true, then Oliver was probably very aware that anything he did or said would give fans false hope and would lead to disappointment and people disliking him. He seems like a really good guy who doesn't want to really hurt people's feelings that way. But at the end of the day, it hinders an actor's ability to give a character or a scene their all if they're constantly overthinking how it will be perceived by the audience.

So, I think Oliver is saying that he's no longer overthinking his actions when it comes to the way he acts as Buck. If people want to perceive a scene/action as gay, then okay. If they don't, okay. If they hate it, okay. If they love it, fantastic. And the same for any solo Buck scenes or non-buddie scenes too. I'm glad he's trying not to let how other people perceive his acting choices get to him anymore.

I hope I explained myself clearly! And again, that's just MY interpretation of what he said. I'm sure there are plenty of other valid interpretations too.

[littlewestern]

Ducky

You spoil me!

Duck is probably my favorite toy to mash together with other engines during shipping playtime, probably as a result of him just having so many great interactions with some of the best characters in the series and enough material to work with to extrapolate what other relationships outside of canon might look like. He's just so complex and likable! Many thousands of words have been dedicated to everyone's favorite pannier tank engine. Here's a few more:

OLIVER:

Hi. I'm the problem, it's me.

I love this ship and my love only grows stronger every day. To me, this ship elicits the same kind of reaction as seeing a frog on a lily pad or a cat napping in the sunlight. Like, "Yeah, that's exactly how it's supposed to be. :)"

Outside of vibes-based ship assessment, and more to the point: I love this ship because it really highlights how differently these two characters approach their shared identity, how their experiences shaped their worldview and how that's impacted the way they feel about their old railway, their new home, and each other.

Duck has never borne the burden of questioning his identity. His relationship to the GWR is uncomplicated. He loved it, he misses it, and espousing its virtues to these NWR engines is not only something he feels he has to do, it's something he enjoys doing!

Oliver - notably - does not behave like Duck. I have chosen to interpret this as a sign that his experience with the GWR wasn't the same as the one Duck had. To what degree it was different is up for debate, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it wasn't great, or at the very least, wasn't enough to engender that same loyalty in him that it did in Duck.

But here they are, together on Sodor, and Oliver isn't out here telling everyone about the two ways of doing things, but he *is* working very hard and wearing his colors (that he had no say in picking, because this was for Duck's branch line), because out here they're all each other has of their past life, and it clearly means a lot to Duck.

I like to imagine that Duck sees and appreciates the effort being put forth here, that it softens him on Oliver a lot after the turntable incident. And gosh that GWR green makes him look a lot like home...

In my ideal world, Oliver starts looking-looking at Duck when it becomes clear that Douglas isn't an option anymore (more on that in another ask, perhaps?), and Duck who has always sorta been looking-looking since Oliver got painted green starts responding to that attention with an acknowledgement that Oliver is doing his best. I think previously, Duck would have been reluctant to offer that kind of verbal affirmation considering what happened the last time Oliver got compliments, but I think it really does make Oliver feel good to be told that he's worked hard and done well - especially considering the adverse circumstances he's faced up to this point. One imagines that he didn't get that kind of praise on the GWR very often, and definitely didn't get it on the BR. It's enough to go to your head a little bit, except he's already learned that lesson once and doesn't want to lose ground by disappointing again.

That being said, I think this is a relationship that works best in the short-term. Duck and Oliver are both grown enough that they can satisfy a passing infatuation and move on without anyone's feelings getting hurt, which is one of my favorite things about them as characters. It would be good for both of them. Duck, I imagine, lacks experience with this sort of thing and Oliver is a very easygoing engine to practice your moves on, and Oliver gets to come away from it feeling better and more secure in his place on the branch line and in Duck's life in general. They get to have a nice Great Western Time about it and then move on, and I love that for them so much.

DONALD:

Alright, we all knew this one was coming.

Donald. Is so great. I don't think I've yet written why I love Donald so much, but that's more of a personal failing than anything since I know at least one person has asked previously and I definitely just forgot to reply in a timely manner. While we can't remedy that in full here, a quick rundown:

Donald is one of those guys who is in the enviable position of being everything desirable to other engines in one convenient package. He's clever, hardworking, funny, devastatingly handsome, whip-smart, reliable and wholly singular (despite being a twin). You like him and you want him to like you back just as much!

All engines love attention, and this one is no exception. And unlike his brother, I think this absolutely goes to his head at times. Donald could easily land any engine he wants, but he's enjoying the freedom too much to let the burden of choosing slow him down. He's having fun flirting with the rest of the railway, why should he have to commit?

Of course Duck is not immune to Donald's charms, but he's also not built to make a game out of his feelings the way Donald does. If you can have any engine you want, why would you settle for Duck? I've got time, Donald thinks. None of us are going anywhere. I like the way he looks at me, and I'm having fun so what's the problem?

Unfortunately, this comes across as Donald toying with his boss's affections, which... [Everyone disliked that.]

Douglas especially hates what's going on here. He's like, "You're going to get hurt or hurt him and then neither of us will be welcome back here. They'll stick us in Great Waterton or send us away like what happened when Duck was quibbling with that diesel engine."

Donald just rolls his eyes and tells his corny romantic of a brother that he's worrying too much, it's all just fun. Just a couple of friends having a good time, nothing to be concerned about.

And It becomes immediately concerning when Duck and Oliver start making eyes at each other across the yard and Duck stops looking at Donald at all. Sure, they're still friendly but Duck doesn't make those flush-faced little expressions at him anymore or laugh all sweet-like when Donald flirts with him. It's so concerning.

It's so concerning that Donald has to go reaffirm how desirable he is by scurrying to every corner of Sir Topham Hatt's railway and propositioning every pompous tender engine he can get in contact with.

He makes a pass at Gordon (who turns him down flat). He makes a pass at Flying Scotsman (who turns him down much more gently). he asks Mavis if she'd kill him for asking Spencer to double-head with him and she just laughs in his face. Donald's whole world is falling apart and Duck doesn't even care because he's having Great Western Hours with Oliver at the shed where they both sleep next to each other every night and this was NOT how this was supposed to go!!!!!!

Douglas can only tut gently and say, "I dinnae want to say I told ye so, but..." and Donald just tears off in a huff. Meanwhile every time Donald catches Oliver's eyes in the yard, Oliver just looks at him all smug-like. Just dreadful. 0/10 experience, completely humiliating.

Of course, because I am a hopeless sucker for romance, when Oliver and Duck have closed that brief chapter of their relationship, Donald gets to turn up, hat-in-hand, and apologize for everything. And Duck forgives him because he's a fucking catch and Donald should have seen that from the jump. Everyone gets their happy ending!

I'd go into why they're good for each other, except better writers than me have already done so and I've taken up so much of your time already. If you made it this far, you're a peach. Thanks for the ask!

[majorbaby]

i was going to make a video compilation but actually i think that would give MASH too much credit or make it seem like I really think this show did generally well by race and racism, plus I can't go back and edit a video if I change my mind at any point. so here's my text-based list of race moments that actually land for me, whether intentional or based on my personal interpretation.

s01e05 The Moose - which is mostly a white saviour episode but actually does do a few things right:

this moment of solidarity between Oliver and Young-Hi

in response to the Swamp Rats' indignation that anyone would sell their child into servitude, Ho-Jon explains very frankly "Well some of the locals sell their kids for money Hawkeye, they have no other means." - not to say that it's right that Young-Hi's parents did that to her, but like, they didn't sell her to get rich, they did it because they're likely living in poverty and they have other younger children to support

Young-Hi cheekily explaining in her letter to Hawkeye "heehee the nuns have no idea I'm Buddhist" she's taking them for a ride, it's great

and Young-Hi's "I am also very beautiful!"

s02e15 Officers Only

Hawkeye introducing a black enlisted man as his brother-in-law - soooo very recently, like I argued this at the mic at my last convention, we've started to rethink the use of"brother" and "sister" to refer to your union comrades has start. if your boss caught you organizing with a friend after work, you would say "oh that's just my brother/sister". arguments against this are gaining traction now because of growing awareness of non-binary people but tbh it should have never been a thing it only protects white people who can reasonably pass as siblings, if you're black or brown you're SOL (as you usually were anyway). so anyway. this is a long ass paragraph just to say that Hawkeye saying " brother-in-law" in the union episode of MASH makes me feel ways. someone was thinking about intersectionality way back then.

s02e19 The Chosen People

Sam Pak in OR at the beginning of the episode, thanking America for saving Korea "from the bottom of our bomb craters." and also just generally making jokes that actually land about the Korean language because he's the one making them, "Pish-posh? That's my mother's family name"

tbh Sam walking around like he owns the base is pretty great in general

s05e08 Dear Sigmund

Klinger: Smaha! Smaha! Potter: [to Private Habib] What'd he say? Habib: He said "Smaha! Smaha!"

If it is Arabic it's funny because Potter assumes Habib will translate and he just repeats the words in Arabic because that is what Klinger literally said. If it is gibberish it's funny because Potter assumes its Arabic and Habib gives him the gibberish. This is one of my favourite gags in the whole show and fun fact also the moment I realized Jamie Farr must be a native speaker because his accent is so natural. It's pretty cool he got to flex that.

s05e11 Hawk's Nightmare

this is just me, but I love that Hawkeye describes the people of Crabapple Cove as never changing colour, always the same "off-white" - this was a time you almost never heard white people acknowledge their whiteness, except when speaking about racism. really struck me the first time i heard it. probably my favourite thing from Hawkeye re: race and it's not intentional. I definitely prefer it to his white saviourism

s06e08 In Love and War

the exchange between Kyungsoon and Hawkeye where the extent of his naiveté is put on display, "You're being awfully practical about this" "I thought you liked that about me [list of things she had to do for survival that Hawkeye initially admired in her but is now throwing in her face]"

episode ends in Hawkeye having to accept that sometimes love is irrelevant, the circumstances are what they are (the love was there and it didn't matter, but it was there) - this imo is the only episode of MASH that even begins to touch on the realities of being a Korean civilian in the war

s08e03 Guerilla My Dreams

the gang fails to save a woman from being taken away and she will likely die, as would've probably happened irl. sometimes being on a sitcom isn't enough to save you from your fate as a prisoner of war and it was good to be reminded of that for once. it's the white saviour trope averted.

s08e08 Private Finance

I can at least appreciate that this time when someone is explaining how all sides of the war are to blame for the scourge of war, it's a young Korean girl in her own words. rest of the episode is questionable but normally such a line would go to Hawkeye.

s08e15 Yessir that's Our Baby

the Korean official biting back when Hawkeye tries to accuse him (on behalf of the country) for not recognizing mixed-race babies as Korean, stating that neither does America recognize mixed-race babies with American fathers as Americans, unlike France and the UK

s11e01 Hey Look Me Over

this episode is textually about the very specific and not uncommon experience of being desexualized as a fat, Asian-American woman - it deserves a proper episode recap/analysis with that lens and I'm planning on take a stab at it if/when I ever get around to that ep in my rewatch. these stories were not being told in mainstream media until like, five years ago. there are some the hypersexualized or fetishized Asian woman in media and usually the movie/show/comic is doing that as a selling point rather than commentary. it's unfortunate we haven't progressed much since that moment 40 years ago.

[citation needed, cannot remember the name of the episode]

while admitted a Korean doctor tells Hawkeye he wishes things were different and that he could work alongside Hawkeye and BJ and Hawkeye asks with perfect American ignorance (paraphrase), "You'd want to do that?" and he responds, "You treat the enemy, why can't I?"

And finally, Soon-Lee and Klinger in GFA, a little bit in As Time Goes By. I started writing an essay on Klinger as the romantic lead of GFA but I think I'm going to try to make it a video essay so I can include clips from the show without having to make a bunch of gifs.

But in a nutshell, Klinger gets to do stuff in GFA that the often emasculated brown man still doesn't get to do much on television. As MASH progressed we did occasionally get to see Klinger take on a more serious role, Alan Alda has spoken on trying to do that for the character rather than rehash dramatic plotlines for Hawkeye or BJ who got plenty of their own.

Having Klinger represented that way gives audiences a chance to see him more three-dimensionally. As someone who is capable of romantic love, attraction, courage and someone who might be sexually desirable to others - in a less direct way than Kellye demands of Hawkeye in Hey Look Me Over. I think the lack of subtlety in Hey Look Me Over is great because there can be no question about what that episode is supposed to do and also because it drives home that Hawkeye is so blinded by his preconceived notions of what a "desirable woman" looks and sounds like that Kellye has to scream it in his face before he realizes what he's been doing. But it's also nice to have an example that's woven into the writing and cinematography.

Normally I don't like to add these kinds of disclaimers because I value open conversation but if you're rb'ing, please be mindful of your tags. I intentionally excluded a lot of the moments where I know I'm supposed to give this show an A+ for its progressivism when it has a white person demonstrating basic human decency. That bar is just too low for me.

[lover-of-mine]

I love your last answer because it matched my musing today on the treadmill. Buck always had to go first because his was always easier. He was raised by Maddie. Despite people hating the parents I actually don't think they are homophobic. I was also raised by waspy white parents. Maybe they might have thoughts or what not but I don't think it was talked about. No religion. Traveled all over. He's always been love is love is love. That's why Tommy's plot point moment with the ash kiss face made me laugh because it served 2 purposes. Showing Buck comfortable kissing and letting everyone know. Which was basically confirmed by Oliver hinself..

Eddie's story was always going to be more complicated. He was married to a woman he has romanticized the idea of. Grew up with religious guilt. Where Buck bailed on the seals he stayed in the Army. His story was never going to be told in 2 episodes. It involves deconstructing, also what Ryan had said.

Last note I don't think Eddie would fit in dating around with guys the way you could have Tommy pass by in Bucks life. Like I can't see it play out the same. Does that make sense? When Eddie realizes it's basically going to be Buck. Not sure if I worded that right. But it just wouldn't be organic.

I think Buck's parents just don't like anything that goes against the perfect nuclear family, and I think that's backed with the way they literally ran away from judgment, the way they abandoned Maddie, the way they treated Buck, so, yeah, I think the scene is less oh they are homophobic and more this turns away from my idea of a perfect family, I'm with you in that interpretation. And, like, Buck has a much more straightforward relationship with relationships and sex in general, so a guy grabbing and kissing him works. Eddie, sure, he is a character who had panic attacks at the thought of life with a woman, so pushing him towards a guy and saying surprise, he's gay, he was just repressed, could work but it would only take him so far. For the consequences for the people around him but also because of Eddie's relationship with himself. Buck doesn't know how to label shit, so he needs things spelled out to him in a way Eddie doesn't. I don't think you can present the idea of attraction to men to Eddie and not have him attach those feelings to Buck because Eddie understands his own feelings, he just ignores them. And realizing he's attracted to men would force him to look around himself and Buck is one of the most important people in his life, he is one of the most important relationships in his life, he would make that jump, and there's the catholic guilt, the expectations that were placed on him, the way he is still romanticizing Shannon, the way he keeps making romantic decisions based on Chris not what he wants, it would never be straightforward. I would never be as simple as having a guy kiss him. So Eddie figuring out he's queer has to make buddie canon, even if one-sided. But also because, in a scenario where Eddie just gets a boyfriend before Buck figures out he's bi, Buck would have a lot of emotions, and Buck is LOUD with his emotions, it's not the type of thing he would be able to control (I mean, Eddie made a friend and Buck almost broke his leg in the confusion), and that means they would either have to trip Buck into the realization himself, end up making Buck seem homophobic, or make someone confront him and guide him to the realization. And in this scenario, if Eddie confronts Buck, that conversation ends with them making out. The show doesn't let them talk about who they are to each other because there is no realistic way to write that conversation that doesn't end with them confessing their feelings or at least shoving the other against the nearest surface. And I think you're right, Eddie was not presented as someone who dates around, not in the way Buck was, that dude wants to be in a long-term relationship, he would get kissed by a dude, like it, then be like, cool, imma go see if my boy bestie wants to marry me, because Eddie is too self-aware to be able to pretend what he has with Buck is normal if he knows he's into men. I also think Eddie would not let himself be kissed by a guy out of nowhere, a guy who's not Buck at least, I think if Buck just kissed him he would go with it, but there's a level of conversation that needs to happen there that didn't fit the plot they gave Buck, it's easier to let Buck go first, slam him into the attraction to men and let Eddie walk towards his queer arc because queer Eddie needs queer Buck first unless they wanted to speedrun buddie. Which they clearly didn't lol. Eddie has a too complicated relationship with romantic love and attraction for his arc to be that straightforward.

[lorephobic]

2, 17, 22 for Saltburn

2. a compelling argument for why your fave would never top or bottom

this means nothing to anybody who follows me for saltburn, but i just answered this question about my other blorbo and came to the exact same conclusion for the complete opposite reason. oliver quick would NEVER top because he is clawing to be the main character of every room that he enters. he wants to be desired so badly that he'll reinvent himself into whoever he thinks you want.

there's a sort of trope in obsession-related media where the obsessor ends up forcefully taking from their victim exactly what they want. and i think that oliver subverts this narrative by never taking anything from felix. he never asks for more than he's given. when he finally has the opportunity to kiss felix, he doesn't. he takes from venetia, and he takes from farleigh, and he takes from james and elspeth, but at the crux of his character, is his need to be taken by felix. this is, of course, a metaphor for bottoming LMAO

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

ok so tbh i'm not a huge fic person because i'm so incredibly picky about the way that the media that i care about is interpreted, which is why i've never read a single saltburn fic and honestly i probably won't ever, just because i feel like there is very little room in this story to expand and no way to twist and rewrite it in a way that is true to the characters that i care so much about. but WITH THAT BEING SAID, i was honestly so totally astonished by @125hr's cattonquick art that it made me realize that maybe i do want to see more beautiful art of them kissing and we can all pretend like they had their moment<333

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

this should honestly be it's own post, but since my last rewatch i've been thinking a ton about the final dance being a reflection of felix's initial tour through saltburn, which has been talked about! but what i haven't seen talked about is all of the other scenes that end up echoing each other. felix's life on the screen and oliver's role in it form a perfect mirror image, starting and ending with oliver staring at felix at parties and not being able to touch him. starting and ending with oliver watching felix have sex with someone that's not him. starting and ending with oliver fucking people who aren't felix in an attempt to get closer to him. on a second rewatch, when you know all of the signs, there's such a devastating sense of oliver returning back to square one, lost in a crowd full of felix's friends and nobody even knows his name. there is a time before felix and there is a time after felix and exactly at the center of this timeline, there is a man on his hands and knees in a bathtub getting the closest he will ever get to the thing that he wants.

[epiphainie]

I think you said you don’t want to get into fandom discourse anymore and I’m not sure if this necessarily counts as discourse but if it does feel free to not respond of course. Anyway, I came across this post that stated bucktommy fans have blown their relationship out of proportion and given it more depth than it has because of the cameos Lou made talking about tommy and bucktommy. That our love and interest in them isn’t based in the source material but what Lou’s “headcanons” say.

Now I’m not going to speak for all bucktommy fans, maybe there are some that have conflated Lou’s interpretations with the source material but I can say, whenever I see bucktommy fans talking about why they love them, it’s always based in the source material (with the added invisible string theory which we all recognize was not on purpose and was a perfect little accident). Also, I personally haven’t seen any of his cameos first hand and only saw a few things on here that he mentioned in them but again, I do think the majority of us understand that most of what Lou says in his cameos re: bucktommy and tommy is not fact and we don’t use that to influence our opinion of canon. Bucktommy in canon is what has made me (and I would argue, the majority of us) love them as much as I do and made me so excited to see what could come of them and I still can’t fathom why that’s so hard for others to understand.

I also find the statement ironic because while Oliver and Ryan may not be making cameos talking about buddie, majority of these buddie shippers look to signs outside of the show to support buddie theories. If they see Oliver posting buddie on his socials, suddenly buddie is happening and buddie is real because why would he post that if they weren’t? Or Ryan saying in an interview that Buck and Eddie are going to be closer than ever this season is also some how buddie confirmation? Ryan and Oliver saying they like and send each other buddie edits is also buddie confirmation? So buddie fans can look outside of the show to influence their buddie beliefs but bucktommy fans can’t? They can love buddie be ways of outside factors but we can’t with bucktommy?

This doesn’t even take into account the fact that everything regarding seeing buddie in a romantic light is entirely fanon interpretation based on microexpressions, subtext, and dissecting scenes frame by frame, line by line -> which I’m not saying people can’t or shouldn’t do that, they are free to do so but then it’s like, you should’ve be a hypocrite, right?

tldr; some buddie fans have to accept that bucktommy fans like bucktommy because of canon and that what exists about them in canon is not nothing - maybe to them - but not everyone. just because they can’t see the solid potential in their relationship, doesn’t mean that it’s the objective truth. there are reasons to love bucktommy and if you (general you) don’t fine, just move along.

Hi anon,

I don't have anything to add because you said it all. I personally found myself shipping BuckTommy because come my 17th watch of their first kiss scene I was still smiling at my screen like a lunatic. Gonna pass on what people who cycle through made-up lasagna, shirt color, vertigo, fridge magnet theories weekly think about why I like what I like and the "validity" of that.

[neverevan]

The only time Oliver posted about love interests as far as I can remember is when he made it clear he didn't like Buck saying I love you to Taylor. Other than that he's never really posted about the love interests. He might have done with Abby in season 1? But I doubt if anyone remembers and/or took screenshots.

oh? could you tell me more about what Oliver posted? was it like straight up "I didn't like that specific thing" or he just said something that wasn't really that but couldn't really be interpreted any other way? I just find it a bit hard to believe that he would drag the writing like that, especially while still being on fox