Thoughts re: Tom Paris’s age vs Bobby Davis’s age
Ok let me preface this with one thing: I usually don’t give two shits what other people in fandoms have for their headcanons. Half the point of fandom is to have fun and enjoy what you enjoy regardless of what others think - I stand behind this 100%! I love hearing about and sharing new and varied headcanons!
HAVING SAID THAT
I saw someone once using the age of the Bobby Davis holo-character in “The Killing Game” as proof for Tom Paris’s age (this is even mentioned off-hand as possible in the Memory Alpha page for his character) - and it makes me want to YELL FROM A VERY TALL BUILDING.
And if you’ve made it this far already, please let me explain to you why.
I understand why some folks would use this - so many characters don’t have listed ages or birth dates in Star Trek, but we get an exact timeline for how old the holo-character of Bobby Davis is. He says he was in France for a summer as an eighteen-year-old in 1936, and then we know he came back during the war in 1944. So that gives his age as 26.
But here’s the thing? THIS IS SEASON 4 OF VOYAGER. I know that Voyager is a little behind in the one-season-equals-one-year thing, but it’s still pretty close. Either way in Season 4, the holo-character/fake personality of Bobby Davis is canonically 26 years old.
By that metric, if Tom Paris was 26 in Season 4, that would make him 24 in Season 2. And this is where I can’t deal with this as “proof” for Tom’s age. I haven’t read any of the beta-canon books (even though I know many have), but as far as I’m concerned, if it’s not SEEN ON SCREEN or SAID ON SCREEN within the 7 seasons of the show, it’s not canon.
that’s probably my training in theatre script analysis kicking in, but sue me
Anyways, if you’re with me so far, now is the time to bring up everyone’s favorite abomination: “Threshold”. Yes, I’m back on my bullshit again with “Threshold”, but it’s for a good reason and mostly because it gives us a ton of backstory and character information for Tom. He gives a very impassioned speech to Janeway in the episode when she’s telling him he shouldn’t risk his life for the Warp 10 flight. And you know what he ACTUALLY says?
“Captain, this is the first time in ten years I feel I have a life to risk”.
Ten years. TEN YEARS since he felt like he had a life to risk. Are you telling me that this man has felt like that since he was FOURTEEN?
Because that’s what this would get you, if you assumed that Tom Paris and the holo-character of Bobby Davis were the same age. I get that we know Tom’s childhood was rocky because of his father - but he also fondly recalls memories of playing in his room and losing his virginity at 17. It seems a bit drastic to think Tom would see his life as meaningless before he was more than a young teenager.
Now if you want to go deeper, I personally believe that Tom’s line from “Threshold” refers to how he felt after Caldik Prime. We know for a fact that he was drinking and being hired as a mercenary after getting kicked out of Starfleet; he says this himself to Janeway in “Caretaker”. Clearly after being thrown out, he was not in a good place. It’s also implied in “Non Sequitur” that he’d have ended up right back as a drunk if the events of the first episode had gone different. In fact, though it is an alternate reality, the Tom Paris in “Non Sequitur” also says something similar to his later lines from “Threshold”:
“Let’s just say It’s been a long time since anybody gave a damn about my future, including me.”
I highly doubt that Admiral Paris “didn’t give a damn” about Tom’s future when he was only fourteen. In fact, Tom’s quote from “30 Days” shows his father had very specific opinions on his young son’s future:
“I had it all planned out. Finish high school, join the Federation Naval Patrol. But my father had other ideas.”
So if you were to agree that the incident at Caldik Prime is the basis for the “Threshold” and “Non Sequitur” lines, that would mean it had been ten years since the accident by Season 2. If that were the case, then there’s no reasonable way that Tom could be the same age as his Bobby Davis character, because that would be way too young.
Personally, I am of the opinion that Tom is the same age as Robert Duncan McNeill was when making the show - so about 30-31 during “Caretaker”, which would put him around 22 at Caldik Prime (if the accident was indeed 10 years before “Threshold”). Since Starfleet Academy takes 4 years (and Harry Kim is supposed to be 22 and fresh from the academy too when he joins Voyager as his first assignment), Tom easily could have joined the academy at 18 years old and finished when he was around 21 or 22 - followed shortly by being stationed on the Exeter and ending with the accident at Caldik Prime. That would line up perfectly with the quote from “Threshold”.
I find that to be a very reasonable timeline.
So anyway thanks for coming to my TedTalk
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I think there’s a discussion to be had about how the lack of current consistent character bibles affects comics in terms of characterisation.
Because I think there actually is a lot more consistent characterisation than people sometimes want to realise when they’re complaining about appearances being out of character. There tends to be a background set of character notes writers who DON'T follow a character obsessively know about them when writing them, and they're often based in their early or most prominent stories. Even if people are willing to look, they’re mostly going to dip in to a couple of recced stories to refresh their memory of what their characterisation is like. Which is part of why character growth has trouble sticking (if what a less-frequent writer is referencing is not the most recent run) but also is frustrating when you're having the 'is this in character' debate because if 8 writers over 10 years all pull this trait out and use it again, there's a level of consistency that's hard to overlook, even if the main writer for the character isn't using it anymore.
It’s particularly noticeable in characterisations in crossovers and events. Because when a writer is juggling half a dozen characters they don’t usually write, they’re going to draw on their memories rather than do deep dive reads for the ones they’re less familiar with. So you get the ‘everyone knows’ character traits and beats.
And this leads to people who love a character vs people who are fine about the character but don't specifically read their runs having differing views on their personalities if these things clash.
Let’s use Damian for an example, because it’s really really obvious by comparing what I’m reading at the moment: Batman & Robin Eternal, Robin War, and Robin: Son of Batman. Two events (one with a crossover issue) and his main title in 2015.
Because if you only encounter Damian in crossovers and events, Damian being a little turd who uses insulting nicknames and proclaims his superiority to everyone is…a lot of what you’ve seen in previous crossovers and events. And he’s doing it again in Robin War and Batman & Robin Eternal. Now there are specifically different beats to this – Damian’s fully ready to sacrifice himself for Dick when he realises Dick’s in trouble. But he’s using frankly derogatory nicknames to Jason and Tim and insulting their abilities, and is even nastier to the We Are Robin kids. And he shows up in Eternal and out of the gate tells everyone they’ve been an idiot.
While if you’re a Damian fan reading his own titles, some of this characterisation rings as backsliding, as he doesn’t really use nicknames anymore in his own titles and has been soul searching about his own past and actions, so it’s not congruent with what you expect to see him doing.
Because if you're fully enmeshed in a character's lore and all their appearances, you obviously centre their protagonist stories and discount the crossover appearances that don't match. But if people only read those crossover appearances… that’s the character they know. And see. And it’s pretty consistent BETWEEN those appearances, so telling those people they’re wrong about a character they’ve encountered in multiple storylines is only going to get backs up on both sides. When actually these are two different completely valid views on a character, sourced from comics. It’s just that those personalities are particularly out of sync between “how they appear as a protagonist/regular” and “how they appear as a side character”.
And that can be incredibly frustrating to hear, when that’s your blorbo. But also, people who are treating repeated characterisation they encounter with a character over many years, across many titles and writers as ‘this is who the character is’ are not deliberately out to be mean to your blorbo. That’s the character they know!
And I think we should all think about that a bit more and take a deep breath.
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REND̷̝͔̪̰̓̏̇̔À̵̯͇̺̮̿͌̎̈C̵̨̯̖̃̀͋͂͠ͅŢ̶͕͓̮̏̏E̵̯̒̾͛D̷͉̹̿̀̈́͒
Ren [REDACTED] from @14dayswithyou Fan SoundTrack
(cover edited from official blog related pictures)
Spotify | YouTube Music | Yandex Music
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American Authors — What We Live For
We're taking off, woo
This is what I live for
Baby, you're my open road
You can take me anywhere the wind blows
Right into the great unknown
We can throw our hands up out the window
This is what we live for
Hey!
We look up at the stars
A perfect night to dream with you
Got 90's retro on the radio, our favorite tune (Hey!)
I put the pedal to the metal just to laugh with you
It's interstellar, when it's just us two
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Где Фантом? — Я тебя люблю
А на кухне суп мой стынет, в голове одно: "Я тебя люблю"
Мяч гоняю по двору, в голове одно: "Я тебя люблю"
Сны хорошие и плохие, в голове одно: "Я тебя люблю"
В этом городе где-то ходишь, всё никак тебя не найду
Rough translation:
My soup's going cold in the kitchen, my mind goes, "I love you."
Playing ball in the yard, my mind goes, "I love you."
Dreaming good dreams and bad dreams, my mind goes, "I love you."
You're walking around in this town, I can't find you.
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Mosimann, Joe Cleere — Never Let You Go
All my faith
All my love
In a pile
Light it up
Things I'd burn
To keep you warm
And in the storm
I'll never let you go, oh-oh
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Deepend, Phil Soda, Lono — I Hate Everyone But You
Been everywhere, searching for something that ain't there
I been wandering, and I don't know what's wrong with me
So sick and tired, these people leave me uninspired
'Cause no one else could ever bring me to my knees
I don't want nobody else in my bed
Rather talk with you instead
Or maybe it's just all in my head
What should I do?
I try to find someone new
But I hate everyone but you
It's true
And I don't mean to be so rude
I hate everyone but you
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Cinema Bizarre — Deeper and Deeper
I'm fallin' deeper and deeper
Getting sweeter and sweeter
You can't obscure desire
'Cause you learn as it grows
It's so strong
It lingers on
Forever
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Нервы — Волшебная
Ты - солнце, ты - звёзды
Ты, ты, ты точно не Земля
Ты сложна, ты, ты, ты, ты так просто
Но кто с тобой я
Мы гуляем по краям
Бессконечно нежная
Не чужая, не моя
Но ты волшебная
Rough translation:
You're the sun, you're the stars
You, you, you, you're definitely not Earth
You're complicated, you, you, you, you're so easy
But who am I with you.
We walk on the edges
Endlessly tender
Not a stranger, not mine
But you're magical
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Мумий Тролль — Фантастика
Осталось никаких сомнений
Похоже, счастлив я
И не слегка
…
Всё это ты!
И ты – не привидение
Фантастика, фантастика!
Неужто мы
Остаёмся вместе навека, навека?
Rough translation:
No doubts left
It seems I'm happy
And not just somewhat
…
It's all you!
And you're not an illusion
Fantastic, fantastic!
Are we
Staying together forever, forever?
Official translation:
I have no doubts, no hesitation
Secure in who I am
Everything's all right
…
And because of you
One word whispered
Fantastica, fantastic
Our love is true
Tangled up together
Our galaxy
The stars I give to you
…
All that we dream
Comes true in this moment
I'll keep you warm and safe
Never let you go
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Who's Molly? — Until I Found You
I didn't know what life was till'
I found you
Am I wasting my time?
Until I found you
Going out of my mind
Until I found you
I need you back here tonight
I didn't know what life was till I found you
Oh, until I found you
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ТОКИО — Если Да
Я смотрю в твои глаза
И тону в своей любви
Я прошу лишь слово
Если ты готова
Пусть об этом скажут губы твои
Если да - тогда все звёзды в твоих руках
Тогда все улицы в облаках именем твоим
Если да - мы не расстанемся никогда
Мы будем вместе с тобой всегда если да
Всё зависит от тебя
Rough translation:
I look into your eyes
And I'm drowning in my love
I only ask for a word
If you're ready
Let your lips speak for you
If yes, then all the stars are in your hands
Then all the streets are in the clouds in your name
If yes, we will never part
We will always be together if so
It all depends on you
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Muse — I Belong To You
I can't find the words to say
They're overdue
I've traveled half the world to say
I belong to you
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Weezer — Happy Together
I can't see me lovin' nobody but you
For all my life
When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue
For all my life
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Звери — Не Важно
Не важно, кто спутал маршруты
Кто кинул нас круто
Кто впарил нам жажду
Однажды я стану минутой
Я стану минутой твоей каждой!
Rough translation:
It doesn't matter who tangled the routes
Who screwed us over
Who duped us to thirst
One day I'll be a minute
I'll be every minute of your life
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Cody Fry — I Hear a Symphony
I used to hear a simple song
That was until you came along
You took my broken melody
And now I hear a symphony
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Dневник Dжессики — Когда ты улыбаешься
Ночь выжигает мои пьяные мысли
Видишь, как небо над нами зависло?
Сколько мне ждать, когда ты успокоишься?
Вниманье твоё — это моя утопия
…
Когда ты улыбаешься, ноги подгибаются
Тело рассыпается, планета взрывае��ся
Когда ты улыбаешься, когда ты улыбаешься
Rough translation:
The night burns away my drunken thoughts
See how the sky hangs over us?
How long do I have to wait for you to calm down?
Your attention is my utopia.
…
When you smile, my legs buckle
My body crumbles, the planet explodes
When you smile, when you smile
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STERVELL — Вот Увидишь
Ночь, гроза
И я ревную тебя к ветрам
Что могут обнимать тебя
Дождь, а я
Всё так же ревную к его каплям
Целующим твои глаза
Rough translation:
Night, thunderstorm
And I'm jealous of the winds
That can embrace you
The rain, and I'm
Still jealous of its drops
Kissing your eyes
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Matt Maltese — As The World Caves In
Oh, it's you that I lie with
As the atom bomb locks in
Yes, it's you I welcome death with
As the world, as the world caves in
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Земфира — Кто?
В руки твои умру, в руки твои опять
Не долетевший Икар.
…
Кто показал тебе звезды утром?
Кто научил тебя видеть ночью?
Кто, если не я?
Я, я всегда буду за тобой
Я, я всегда буду за тебя
Нет, не отпущу
Rough translation:
Into your hands I'll die, into your hands again
Icarus who didn't make it
…
Who showed you the stars in the morning?
Who taught you to see at night?
Who else but me?
I, I'll always be behind you.
I, I'll always be for you.
No, I won't let go.
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Три Дня Дождя — Где Ты
Ты не знаешь меня даже по имени
Но я снова у тебя за спиной
Ты задела всё живое внутри меня
И одна шагаешь снова домой (домой)
…
Я сделал бы тело себе из твоего запаха
Я двери сносил бы с петель, чтоб ты заплакалаЯ Продал бы душу, затем отнял обратно
Чтоб ты любила меня неадекватного
Rough translation:
You don't even know my name
But I'm right behind you again
You've impacted every living part inside of me
And you're walking home alone
…
I'd make a body for myself out of your scent
I'd tear doors off their hinges to make you cry
I'd sell my soul, then take it back
So you'd love a madman like me
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Три Дня Дождя — Иду За Тобой
Отведи меня туда, где потеплее
Я держу тебя за руку, и губы немеют
Ты бы знала, как я сильно не хочу домой
Тебя касаюсь и жалею, что живой
Я иду за тобой по лесам
Ищу тебя по коридорам, серым этажам
Я предвкушаю, как я скоро всё тебе отдам
Убей меня, наблюдая, как схожу с ума, в поисках себя
Rough translation:
Take me somewhere warmer
I hold your hand and my lips go numb
If only you knew how much I don't want to go home
I touch you and regret I'm alive
I follow you through the woods
Looking for you through the corridors, the gray floors
I'm anticipating how soon I'll give you my everything
Kill me by watching me go crazy, searching for myself
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Saint Motel — Sweet Talk
You're probably not aware
That I'm even here
Well, you might not know I exist
But I don't even care
Sweet talk
Everything you say
It sounds like
Sweet talk to my ears
You could yell
"Piss off! Won't you stay away?"
It'd still be
Sweet talk to my ears
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Моя Дорогая — Моя Дорогая
Моя дорогая, я не так далеко
Ты можешь убить меня, не обнимая
Моя дорогая...
Rough translation:
My dear, I'm not that far away,
You can kill me without embracing me,
My dear…
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IVEMBR — Реплики и Роли
Оставим реплики и роли
Героям посредственных фильмов
Рядом с тобой я свободен
Твой звонкий смех — моя сила
…
Озеро глаз твоих плачет
Слёзы реками впадают
В этих глазах всё без фальши
К этим глазам меня тянет
Rough translation:
Let's leave the lines and the roles
To mediocre movies' heroes
With you, I'm free
Your clear laughter is my strength
…
The lake of your eyes is weeping
Tears flow in rivers
Those eyes reflect no falsehoods
Those eyes draw me in
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Перемотка — Как Тебя Покорить
Как тебя покорить
Как тебя покорить не знаю я
Не проходит без этой мысли дня
Не проходит и дня
…
Просыпаюсь и вновь
Дышу я тобой
Живу я тобой
Живу я тобой
Rough translation:
How to win you over
I don't know how to win you over
Not a day goes by without that thought
Not a day goes by
…
I wake up and again
I breathe (because of) you
I live (because of) you
I live (because of) you
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Imagine Dragons — Follow You
You know I got your number, number all night
I'm always on your team, I got your back, alright
Taking those, taking those losses if it treats you right
I wanna put you into the spotlight
…
I will follow you way down wherever you may go
I'll follow you way down to your deepest low
I'll always be around wherever life takes you
You know I'll follow you
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