#listen to our twilight episode

[dashboarddiaries]

This episode is actually about Twilight but Cher tells a story that makes Lauren laugh so hard she starts crying. Also, we reinvent language several times. Or, should we say, janguage. Mer beau for listening! 

Credits and transcript in our reblog. You can find transcripts for this, and every other episode, here.

Find the posts discussed in this episode in this tag!

[piracytheorist]

Twilight Eyes Project: "The Prestigious School's Interview" (part 2)

First part here

Previous episodes analyses

The anime starts this part by immediately establishing that Twilight has planted a listening device in the interview room and is listening in, and shows him with Twilight eyes.

As he admits, this is the first time he feels so nervous during a mission that he's having trouble breathing. So his instinct to stay fully alert is pushed up to eleven.

His mission is to be serious and collected for the interview. Yet there is a subtle sign of distress on his face. The slumped shoulders add to that effect.

The time for the interview is finally here! Loid Forger thanks the teachers for having them, with "Twilight eyes" still on.

Walter Evans asks first, and Twilight studies him, his eyes stay on.

Until Evans addresses him directly about his relationship with Yor. The manga has a small panel of Loid having a speech bubble with a "!" in it, the anime stays on the shot and softens up his eyes.

However, they're still "Twilight eyes" as he answers. The anime adds a shot of him looking away as he talks about his first meeting with Yor.

The image he presents about said meeting is not representative of reality.

He wasn't blushing, nor was he looking at her with such eyes, when they first happened upon each other.

The manga lampshades this exaggeration by showing a new picture of him with Loid eyes and adding the comment "mental picture".

Fans can hope this will be real one day.

He continues on to praise Yor's dedication to their family. Though he has Loid eyes on, they're not the exaggerated, zesty wide eyes we've been used to.

He's more calculated here, more modest and down-to-earth. He's adapting to the strict environment of a school interview; he can't look like a carefree, happy-go-lucky dad here.

In the manga, he turns back to Twilight eyes as Yor is asked about him, and he watches her carefully.

Murdoch Swan enters the chat! Focused Twilight eyes show our guy's suspicions of him.

Evans asks why they chose Eden, and Loid answers like any dutiful Ostanian citizen would: because Patriotism™ and shit.

How to Kiss Ass in a delicate, elegant manner.

I am quite intrigued by the fact that he mentions patriotism among the things "Loid" wants his daughter to learn in Eden, especially when he says it with such a passionate face. This may be "Twilight eyes" but I doubt any of what he says reflects his real views.

However, this is a super crucial moment for the mission. The smallest slip-up and everything goes up in flames. He needs to keep his face perfectly controlled at all times; every single expression he makes is deliberate. And this expression is the face of a man who loves Ostania too much to be working for a foreign government! Right?!

Evans asks him about Anya, and softer Loid eyes are on.

That's a proud dad who believes his child is Eden academy material. Confidence is powerful in an interview like that, and he needs to sell it as better and as more convincing as he can.

A polite, light-hearted smile as he jokes about how sometimes it feels like she's reading his mind. That's how intuitive she is, trust me, I've definitely known her for longer than a week!

Evans asks Yor about her cooking, she hesitates, and Loid chimes in helpfully, with a humble smile on.

Swan continues being an asshole, grating on Twilight's nerves. Twilight eyes are back on as he tries to explain the absolute horror of a *gasp!* husband cooking at home.

He's full-on, seriously defending Yor here. The average Manly Man™ would be on Swan's side, willing to badmouth his own wife in order to appeal to the teachers' conservative sides, or would at least admit that his wife's lack of cooking skills is something they're working on. Instead, Twilight praises Yor's cleaning skills and caretaking of Anya, saying that's more than enough to warrant him cooking the meals.

Swan is having none of that, and Twilight is ready to double down, until Yor interrupts him, agreeing with Swan's criticisms. I'd wager a guess this is our first glimpse of his anger through real eyes, an anger that will explode a little later.

My guess that his eyes here are expressing his real irritation and aren't just "Twilight eyes" comes from the fact that he has nothing to gain from doubling down - quite the opposite, in fact. He even chastises himself for getting so worked up, as he gains his composure.

Once again, eyes hidden in the anime.

It's Anya's time to answer questions, and Twilight prepares himself. Anya manages to hold her ground, though mixing up her words a bit. Eyes are slightly narrowed, and though he smiles, this is another moment where everything can go downhill very easily, so he's still tense.

He explains her fumbling away with well-timed excuses and awkward smiles that I won't show because I've hit the pictures limit.

Anya declares she loves her parents and wants to stay with them forever... and her honesty touches Twilight. Real eyes. He has nothing to decipher and no-one to manipulate, so he's just left speechless.

But he has no time to ponder on why he reacted like that, cause Swan decides to strike again. Twilight eyes are back on, as he senses he can't afford opposing him again, and tries to respectfully divert the discussion away from such an inappropriate, sensitive question.

Anya starts crying, and we immediately switch to Loid and Yor's reactions. And let me tell you, that small line under his left eye does it all. To Twilight, she's ruining the interview and thus any chances of Operation Strix moving forward. But he's not upset at her - he's upset for her.

Struggling to salvage the situation, he keeps his face tight and controlled as Yor runs to console Anya and even exclaims what a cruel treatment this is.

The anime adds a shot of Twilight looking at Swan's direction as the latter starts dissing them, and losing some control on his expression in the process.

Despite that, he makes one last effort to hold himself together, telling himself it's alright if Swan smears them. They're not a real family, after all...

But then, he's had enough. Cue nightmare eyes.

A mess has officially been made. All he can do now is try to salvage his dignity and walk out with his head held high, though secretly having lost all hope things will work out.

We get Twilight eyes, but I'm leaning towards the theory that it was because he was trying to pull himself together. For Anya and Yor's sake, who were harassed by Swan's vile words, he needed to be the one to end things there and take them out of this upsetting environment.

But not without a last word. He allows his judgment and genuine anger and disappointment in Swan's behaviour to show through his "Twilight eyes".

Again, things went downhill, there's nothing to investigate, he can't manipulate his way into the school any more, but he feels the need to make a point about how he feels about not respecting the feelings of children. If he's to walk out, he's going to do it with his head held high because this asshole Swan hurt the feelings of two innocent people, and telling him off is the least he can do.

And he keeps that face on as they leave.

And that dignity is enough to inspire Henderson to act in his stead.

(continued in part 3)

(no manga spoilers please)

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Random BL Superlatives: 2023

Well @lurkingshan did it, so I must do it. So here are some random, WKA themed superlatives for the 2023 BL selection.

Best Hands: Mhok and Day, Last Twilight

gif by @singularities

Listen. I know. I KNOW. There are so many incredible options, and I have written at length about a number of them. I mean come on, La Pluie is right there, I Feel You Linger in the Air is right there, Sing My Crush, Moonlight Chicken etc. etc. etc. But

But, Last Twilight came in with the steel chair right at the end of the year here with that FUCKING HANDSING SCENE. Can you blame me? The handsing scene is shrimply too powerful.

Best Lighting: Playboyy

You know, it's funny cause I don't usually end up writing about lighting in shows, despite the fact that lighting design is absolutely one of my favorite things in film, stage, and television. Chains of Heart has really interesting lighting too, but Playboyy is an objectively better show, and it is doing some absolutely gorgeous lighting design.

Best Sex Scene: Olive Oil, I Feel You Linger in the Air

gif by @pharawee

THE OLIVE OIL SCENE, WHY ARE THERE NO GIFSETS OF THE OLIVE OIL SCENE? WHY IS TUMBLR SUCH A FUCKING HATER???? They didn't even fuck in that scene, but holy mother of GOD it was the best thing I've seen all year. I Feel You Linger in the Air has some of the most inventive and beautiful intimate moments, and spreading the olive oil as a stand in for arousal and masturbation was absolutely goddamn brilliant.

Best Faen (Non)Fatale: Porjai, Last Twilight

gif from @khaopybara

I know Last Twilight hasn't finished yet and will take us in to 2024, but Porjai and Mohk's relationship is absolutely my favorite lovers to friends dynamic I have seen this year. I was showering praise upon them all for this in the tags of a reblog today, so I have to give it to them. Massive shout out and extremely close call to Nara from La Pluie.

Best Emotional Roller Coaster: What Did You Eat Yesterday? Season 2

Ok there were quite a lot of shows that I think would have applied here, but man oh man this entire season has just run me through the wringer with how much Shiro has grown over the course of the last two seasons. Episode 11 had me laughing my ass off, and then absolutely sobbing by the end. So it's going to Kinou Nani Tabeta?

The Shirt I Want to Steal Most from Wardrobe: Blue and White Button Up, The Sign

gif from @ohshinytrinketsmine

I know this will be contentious when the Fart Proudly shirt is right there, but I really loved the blue and white button up shirt that Phaya wore I do not know what is in the water at IdolFactory, but they have hands down some of the best shirts I have ever seen. When I watched Secret Crush on You I wanted the entirety of Sky's wardrobe, now I am having shirt envy for this sexy little blue-with-white-lines-that-are-vaguely-rabbit-shaped (wka do not write a post about rabbits, do not write a post about rabbits-) button up.

The Character Who Most Changed my Opinion of Them: Phupa, OS2 x BBS x ATOTS

gif by @alexshenry (double PhupaPat whammy for @waitmyturtles)

Okay, so to tell you the truth, I made new superlatives cause if I took the superlatives from @lurkingshan's post it would have been at least half the same if not more (because as always, Shan is right about everything). But, I will put an overlap here because I absolutely could not let this year go by without applauding Aof, Earth, and Phupa for really putting in the work to help me understand this man better.

The Show That Most Surprised Me: Wedding Plan by MAME

gif by @wanderlust-in-my-soul

Okay not only was this show that I absolutely was not planning to watch or initially interested in actually one of the best of the year, but it was also a MAME show. And a lot of us have our critiques of MAME's writing, but this was so outside of her typical MO that I am shocked it came from the same writer. Love Sailom, love a Lavender Wedding, love Nuea, love it all.

The Trope This Year That Most Accounted for the Fact These Are Gay MEN: Boxing! Sing My Crush, Wedding Plan, The Sign

Sing My Crush did this the absolute best, but I really genuinely loved that multiple shows this year let men fight in controlled settings to get out some of their frustration and to process their feelings. Han Ba Ram crying in the gym? One of my favorite scenes of the entire year.

And yeah sure, Phaya and Tharn are fighting for the intricate rituals that allow men to touch the skin of men, we get the horny vibes, but fundamentally this fight does occur because Tharn is angsty and ignoring Phaya and that cannot stand. I like seeing Phaya sparring with the punching bag at the end of the most recent episode as well because he's fucking furious about Tharn telling the doctor about his dreams. I love it, I love it so much.

[fansplaining]

Episode 218: The Money Question 3: Books???

Following previous installments on the thorny intersections of money and fanfiction, Episode 218, “The Money Question 3: Books???” tackles the recent debacle around people illegally selling bound copies of others’ fic, which has mostly centered on mega-popular Dramione works. Jumping off from Elizabeth’s WIRED article on the subject—which ties the practice to the current pull-to-publish wave as well as the Twilight fan-run presses of the early 2010s—Elizabeth and Flourish discuss the context collapse when a fic “breaches containment,” double standards in attitudes towards money and various fan practices, and, for likely the 1,000th time on this podcast, what exactly “fair use” means. 

Click through to our site to listen or read a full transcript!

[parsleysagerosemarytimemachine]

Twilight Mirage Dead Divines

In honor of my friend finishing Twilight Mirage -- tell me about your TM Dead Divine OC!

So for people who need a reminder/prompt:

The season begins with the introduction of characters, the city-ships they came from, and the (now-dead) Divines that were their patrons. So I want to hear about your ship and Divine! (And characters if you have an OC for that too)

[hopelesslyromanticgay]

An Americano, Please? Part 3

Word count: 1.3K A/N: Just an FYI, I don't usually upload twice a day, I just felt particularly inspired today. As always, italics in quotation marks signify the speaking is using romanian dialect.

Y/N's POV:

I gotta admit. It hurt when Jenna didn't send me a text immediately. It's been two days, and still nothing.

Maybe it was a meaningless banter. Oh well. I guess I just really thought something could come out of it.

"What are you sulking about?" Nessa asks me one day after our shift. 

"I'm not sulking, I'm just a little sad because I didn't get a text from someone," I explain, "It's not like she owed me a text or anything, but I don't have to be ecstatic over the fact that she hasn't done so."

"Oh my god, you're into the American one," Nessa exclaims, "I knew it! I mean, she's gorgeous. Like if I were into girls I would definitely be into her." I take a sip of my cortado (half espresso, half milk) as I listen.

"Well in any case, she's probably not interested."

"Stop sulking, Y/N," Nessa scolds me, "Let's do something fun. Gotta get your mind off of this girl."

Since our shift just ended, and we have a whole afternoon ahead of us, Nessa and I take her car to Predeal, the closest thing to a modern city we have around here.

It's about seven miles, so about twenty minute drive. The town's mostly filled with ski resorts, but there's a few fun places to shop.

A great deal of the afternoon is spent sitting outside a store judging the tourists. 

"Oh my god she's probably saying something stupid like, 'I know it's winter but my husband will love this hawaiian T-shirt I bought in Romania,'" Nessa mimics the normal thought process of the typical tourist.

"This guy's even worse though,"  I stifle a laugh, mocking his actions.

After a thorough mockery of all of the Predeal tourists, we head back to our town, content with our afternoon.

I still haven't stopped thinking about Jenna, though. I wish I could have gotten to know her better. It's so nice to finally have someone I can talk to in English.

All I can do is hope that she comes back to the shop. Even then though, she probably won't want much to do with me.

Nessa drops me off at my apartment, waving goodbye. Almost instantly, I shed my winter coat, relieved by the warmth of the building.

The first thing I do is turn on the TV and open Netflix. A new baking show just dropped, and I'm not the type to turn down new entertainment.

The show turns out to be a combination of baking and engineering. It seems cool, but it's hard to tell from the first episode.

My phone lights up with a bright reminder Remember to feed Cupid!

Sighing, I get up from the couch and grab my fish flakes.

Cupid is my purple betta fish. She's about a year old and as of yet hasn't had too many health issues, which is super lucky for both of us. She's at the point where she recognizes my face. So when I go up to the tank, fish feed in hand, she eagerly swims up to the glass.

"Hey Cupid," I laugh, sprinkling some food into the tank.

After feeding her, I head back to the couch, where I continue watching my cooking show. Before I know it, I'm five episodes in and the sun is starting to set. I look out of the window, trying to gauge the temperature and weather condition.

It's a fairly clear twilight right now. There's a good chance I'll get to see stars tonight. Actually, I've decided I will see stars tonight.

I don my winter coat and make my way down the apartment complex stairs. One of the perks of not living in a huge city is that I can see the night sky beautifully.

One of my favorite places in town is on the outer edges of it. At this point, all of the buildings are housing, be it apartments or actual houses. The long stretches of pavement are perfect for strolling down while admiring the night. 

Not a lot of people choose to come out here late at night, which is honestly their loss. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm super into nature and the great outdoors, but when I am outside, I can find an appreciation for my surroundings.

So that's how I found myself strolling the streets of Bușteni Romania, not looking at the cement in front of me.

BAM! I find myself crashing into another person, almost knocking both of us over.

"Fuck, I am so sorry," I find myself defaulting to english, "I- I mean, I'm so sorry, are you okay?"

"Y/N?" A familiar voice asks.

"Jenna?" It may be dark, but I can just barely see the details of her face. God I hope she's not mad.

"Yep, it's me," I hear her faintly laugh.

"Are you okay? I almost knocked you over."

"I'm okay, just a little rattled."

"Sorry for that again," I apologize, "I should have been watching where I was going." 

"You could make it up to me by walking me to my apartment?" she offers.

"I'd like nothing more," I laugh, linking my arm with hers and we start to walk.

"So, Y/N, tell me about yourself," she starts the conversation.

"Well, my name's Y/N L/N, I work at a coffee shop. I speak English and Romanian, which is useful for when people like you come to the shop."

"I know that stuff," she interrupts me, "what do you like to do outside of work?"

"You know, the normal things, be around the people I care about, watch shows, I read sometimes, listen to music, that kind of stuff. What about you?"

"Well for starters, I'm Jenna Ortega, I also love to read and listen to music," she tells me, "I also like to write though, I have like, twenty scripts and stories sitting in my FinalDraft™ folder."

"Damn, you must really like writing," I respond, "that's pretty awesome."

"I guess so," she shrugs.

"Have you ever considered publishing your work?" I ask.

"Yeah, I actually published a book called It's All Love," she answers proudly.

"That's like, the coolest thing anyone's said to me all day," I tell her.

"I guess I'm just a cool person," she jokes, "I'm kidding, I'm kidding, only an arrogant person would say that."

"No, you have reason to say, it. You're a published author, the lead in a TV show, and fun to talk to. Don't discredit your own awesome-ness." 

She laughs, "thanks for saying that."

"Sure thing." 

"So, does your offer to take me around town sometime still stand?" she changes the subject.

"I'm a woman of my word, Jenna, if you still want a tour, you have my number," I remind her, trying to sound kind and cool at the same time. Which is kind of challenging.

"Oh my god, I forgot to text you, didn't I," she gasps, "I'm so so sorry, Y/N. I've just had so much going on." She starts to talk herself into a panic, "I have work for like, eight hours a day, plus cello lessons, plus german and fencing, it's just so much." If I had known how busy she was I never would have felt so hurt. That must be so overwhelming.

"Hey, it's okay, I'm not mad about it." Which is true. 

"That's such a relief," she exhales, "again, I'm so sorry."

"Hey, Jenna, it's okay. How about the next time you have a day off, we get in touch and I take you around town."

"Well, conveniently enough, my next day off is tomorrow, so how about I see you then?" she offers.

"I wouldn't be opposed to that," I smile, doing my best to hide how excited I am for this.

"Well this is my place," she announces, "thank you for walking me home." 

"Anytime," I reply, sad to know the night is ending. She heads through the door to her apartment, leaving me to walk the short five minutes to my apartment alone.

As soon as I get home, I dash to my bedroom, putting on pyjamas and getting ready for bed. I'm tired from the day. At at the same time, I'm so happy I got to see Jenna. I'm so excited that she wants to see me again, maybe tomorrow! I can't wait to get to know her better.

My phone lights up with a text from a new number

                       +1 ***-***-****

Does 11 AM tomorrow work for you?

-Jenna

I smile, quickly texting back 

                               Sure thing, see ya then :)

I can hardly wait.

[hotvintagepoll]

Hi! I feel awkward writing to you to plug something else but my colleague thought it would be a good idea so here goes:

If any of your followers speak French and like old cinema, as well as 2010s mediocre Twilight inspired YA, then you might be interested in my podcast! Our latest episode is about Beauty and the Beast (1946, with hot vintage contestant Josette Day) and....*sigh*... Beastly (2011, yes the one with Vanessa Hudgens).

Despite the offense to cinema, it's fun and we have other episodes out, including bend it like Beckham, the mortal instruments/Ruby red, the perks of being a wallflower, Derry girls (with an episode in English, highly recommend that one, it's an interview with a northern Irish person), and a "triple feature" episode with Bridgerton, never have I ever and the summer I turned pretty (with a journalist guest).

Anyway, that's in case anyone is interested. Link is in the ask. Thank you for your time! Love your blog ❤️

Sincerely, the granddaughter of podcast grandma. She WILL be a guest in English at some point to talk about a classic musical, I promise

https://linktr.ee/2s2a_podcast

We also have a Tumblr where I post occasionally https://www.tumblr.com/2salles2ambiances

BOOST.

this looks wonderful! and say hi to podcast grandma, as always. I'm re-learning French right now so I'll be listening!

podcast link

tumblr link

[waitmyturtles]

Last Twilight, episode 1: reflections

TW: suicide

ALLLLLLLLRIGHT! Aof Noppharnach began our year with Moonlight Chicken; interjected it with Our Skyy 2 x Bad Buddy x A Tale of Thousand Stars, and bookends it with Last Twilight. I've got my cha yen ready (not too sweet), here we go, Last Twilight, episode 1.

Some quick notes on random stuff first, then themes I'm picking up on:

1) Yes, we had to have Doc Jimmy start a new series with a new fight, huh (and always in these bowling shirt/jackets, too)

2) Ajahn Pichai with the gold chain, sheeeet! (Listen. It's my OGMMTVC Bad Buddy Meta Month. Just about everyone working on this show on the screenwriting and directing team are BBS alums. The comparisons will be unavoidable!)

3) Why do I know Sea Tawinan? It’s not because I watched Vice Versa (I stayed away), but because he was great in a small role in 55:15 Never Too Late, AND, more importantly, homeboy wore an off-shoulder Fendi sweater WITH a blazer (CLAP EMOJIS) to some GMMTV event, which warmed my couture cockles. Much respect for the taste! (Poor @lurkingshan has had to literally hear about my fashion obsession with this get-up MULTIPLE TIMES, sorry Shan, palms together!)

4) Of the few episodes of Midnight Museum and UMG that I watched earlier this year, I was not impressed with Namtan Tipnaree, but I appreciate that she's starting off quite strong and moodily here. (Also, UMG's script did literally no human being any justice.)

@twig-tea has gathered the ragged and burnt out (oh, is that just me, lmao) Ephemerality Squad from the Only Friends meta circle to join them in a Last Twilight Liminality.... what should we call ourselves, the Liminality League? The Liminality Legion? Someone choose! Anyway, I am super down, and ready to start chewing on some themes. Twig captured the big theme of liminality, of time purgatory, and I totally agree with what you've gotten down in your post, Twig.

In the preview episode for this series, Before Last Twilight, we learn that Day has 180 days -- six months -- of vision left. At the same time, Mhok has 180 days -- six months -- to earn enough money to buy back his late sister's car.

In addition to liminality/time purgatory (this is only my coinage, btw, a way in which I can understand the moment in life this show is capturing), we clearly have a theme of cars and movement. Mhok is a mechanic. He wants to keep his late sister's car. The Bimmer that Night is driving is Day's car. Mhok has to get Day home on the back of a motorcycle as Night had to drive away while Day was wandering in the middle of the road. A car can move backwards only very temporarily, and will HAVE to move forwards at any point in time in order to get to another location (..... unless you're a driver from New Jersey, ayooo!). The car belonging to the late Rung is very much in purgatory at the moment.

We have a theme of sibling rivalry between Day and Night. Day was the success of the family, knows it, and hangs it over Night's head. And we have a theme of opposites. Day, Night, blind, seeing. I can play badminton, I cannot play badminton.

(BY THE WAY! We know we'll be reading more into badminton, AND in the rivalry of Day and Night, AND in the rivalry of Sea and Mark in this series, yes? Mark Pakin and Sea Tawinan are both national-level Thai badminton players who chose acting as their careers. They're facing off in some GMMTV BL sports tournament at the end of the year. I hope it's slightly aggressive! In Before Last Twilight, Sea actually made reference to his rivalry with Mark. Ooooh, TESTY!)

While I'm watching closely the tension between Day and Night, I'm also watching for the stress and pressure that caring for Day will put on Mhok, as well as Night and his and Day's mother. As many of us are watching Last Twilight very closely for accuracy and authenticity in reflecting the experience of a disabled person in an unaccommodating environment; I'm also looking to this show to hopefully capture stories of caregiver stress, which is an incredibly real and important phenomenon (relevant articles here and here).

As I always, always harken to in my posts: behavioral change is very real, and very difficult -- especially when behavioral change is forced upon an individual AND/OR a group, all of which contain very different emotional constructions. Day and Night's forced behavioral change, based on Day's vision condition, has very naturally and automatically caused stress in the group dynamic of Day's family system, as we saw in the outburst in Day's car. I wonder how Mhok will deal with that stress, and how he'll manage his own stress vis à vis caring for Day.

Last theme for now, and then some concluding thoughts. Mhok's emotional distance from his sister's suicide. He can't bring himself to connect with it directly.

I'm eating this up. It's certainly Mhok's way of grieving at the moment. He's also talking with his ex-girlfriend in both of these scenes. There's emotional space between him and Rung, between him and Porjai. And certainly there's simmering and unresolved anger as well -- honestly, the whole emotional circle. But Mhok, at this point, is not toeing the line of getting close to those emotions, and is engaging with the memory of his sister with distance, which is bound to be addressed vis à vis his connection with Day.

There's a lot of anger, a lot of regret, a lot of avoidance, a lot of dancing around the honest truth. Mhok and Day are likely conduits of emotional openness and steadiness to each other; we will see how it plays out.

What do I think of JimmySea? I'm not you're average Wai hater -- I really liked Jimmy as Wai in Bad Buddy. Because I didn't watch Vice Versa, I honestly don't know what I think about him in a lead role. So I am going in REAL fresh, knowing nothing about JimmySea's chemistry, and I like what I'm seeing so far, particularly with Jimmy's emotional control. I appreciate having seen a bit of the work they did together in Before Last Twilight to get to this series premiere.

Aof has done this before: he's recognized potential in pairings (specifically in Dark Blue Kiss with TayNew and Still 2gether with BrightWin) to come up with fabulous shows. So I have trust that he knows what he's doing with JimmySea. Let's see. I really like this so far, but Only Friends did indeed burn me out to a crisp, so I'm allowing myself the slightest touch of hesitancy as I get into a new and big GMMTV show.

[threebooksoneplot]

It’s 2 episodes in 1 as G and Shannon kick off Eclipse season!! Part I: talk Eclipse history and learn about Twilight Saga deep cut The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner, then celebrate the launch of new fake books Warfare and Peace and Corona Light, created with help from listeners! Part II: guest Maddy is BACK to kick off the first chapter of Eclipse, involving vampiric Varsity Blues scandals, Edward’s shitty literary takes, and ultimate spaghetti chef Charlie Swan.

Spotify

Apple Podcasts

Linktree

[pochapal]

umineko opening live reaction post

due to spoiler avoidance this is now only happening after i'm already like two thirds done with episode one BUT thanks to the magic of trusted followers giving me beautiful spoiler free links (everybody say thank you to @coolstuffiseverywhere) i can now Bear Witness:

immediately noticing from the first three seconds that this is NOT the same opening/song i'm used to skipping. umineko project starts with a shot of i think a record being played?? and then i don't know the rest

this is a very hype-building type song for sure lmao

hi beatrice

the music is very much giving getting turnt at the medieval fiefdom. i'm kind of living for it????

is this what the og version's backgrounds looked like? very dreamlike water painting quality to them

SHE!!!! SQUISHY MARIA!!!!! I HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL AND ONLY GETTING GOOD THINGS IN THIS WORLD!!!

a shadow falling over maria....how prescient

squishy battler......nobody understands how badly i need to put this boy in a microwave

suuuuper interesting that our first glimpse of george is fogged-glasses Adultsona george before the mask lifts and we see a friendlier face

clock striking twelve + the overlay of the first twilight's sacrificial/freedom magic circle + natsuhi in the corner....much to consider

weird pulsating heartbeat effect over what i think is the ushiromiya eagle? the symbol as the rotten heart pumping the poisoned lifeblood throughout the story perhaps?

failsibling void....mimicking the dining room's seating hierarchy?

them!!!! shannon!!!!! kanon!!!!!!!! of course they're presented as part of the Sus People slideshow but that's okay because neither of them ever committed a single crime ever <3

the failsiblings have Become The Joker

more seriously thinking about the comedy mask presentation here....multiple lies and multiple farces define the ushiromiya siblings so this is extremely apt

kinzo => blood splatter => the epitaph (?) is a Very Leading sequence of images. encouraging certain audience associations from the very start.

the image effect here is really making the mansion's windows look like a stained glass relief. evocative of church imagery. thinking about this in correlation with the floating topic of christianity. of the recurring motif of faith and the demonic. of the gospel house. rokkenjima as a corrupt altar.

it would be false advertising to call you game "when they cry" and not include anyone crying in your opening

uhhhhh that's. that's. blood. on maria's sprite there. a bloody maria besides beatrice. symbolically a representation of maria's use as a pawn in the slaughter or foreshadowing some horrible thing that hasn't happened yet? hope it's the former because Maria Covered In Blood is incredibly something i don't need to think about lol.

a.....bottle? wine bottle on the beach? with. is that paper in there? a message in a bottle? really conspicuous image when compared to the western style ornate envelopes that have otherwise been the defining method of written communication in the story. i can think of a couple of things a message in a bottle could refer to/be used for as fits both the witch narrative and the epitaph puzzle.

seagull sighting!!!! after so very very long the titular umineko reveals itself

so that was the whole opening! first thought is the song is an absolute banger and i WILL be extracting an mp3 file from this video because even listening to it a couple of times is super pumping me up to want to read umineko right now lol.

second thing is that i am very interested in the sequence of images/events portrayed in the latter half the opening. the first part clearly maps onto the failsiblings argument and kinzo's demon's roulette and the clock striking midnight ushering in the killing, feeding then into everyone being upset and arguing. but then we get a bloody maria by the portrait, a message in a bottle on a calm beach and an image of a seagull flying under blue skies. some kind of symbolic representation of how episode 1's gonna end? something Bad goes down with maria and the storm breaks and we get the final word via a message in a bottle and then the seagulls cry?

this is almost certainly something that will make an extreme amount of sense after the fact but mostly right now i'm instilled with a deep anxiety for maria. there were a lot of ominous shots of her in this opening. i worry.

but yeah!! glad to have finally seen this!

[the-conversation-pod]

Roses, Thorns, and Buds: A Last Twilight and The Sign Breakdown

AND WE'RE BACK! This week, we're unpacking the way Last Twilight let us down and all the ways The Sign tried to be so many things with mixed results. We tried a roses, thorns, and buds framework to find interesting things to talk about in our disappointment.

This week we're joined by @wen-kexing-apologist to discuss Last Twilight, and then by @so-much-yet-to-learn to discuss The Sign.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:16 - Introduction 00:03:54 - Last Twilight: Roses and Thorns 00:09:35 - Last Twilight: Failed Expectations 00:15:54 - Last Twilight: Ableism 00:22:02- Last Twilight: Buds 00:25:22 - Last Twilight: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:29:26 - Intermezzo 00:32:43 - The Sign: Roses 00:39:32 - The Sign: Thorns 00:48:43 - The Sign: Buds 00:56:03 - The Sign: WTFery 01:04:24 - The Sign: Final Thoughts and Ratings 01:10:02 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:16 - Introduction

Ben 

And we're back. Last week, we got to have a lot of fun talking about She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat and dunking on Chaser Game W. This week we're talking about the confusing messes that were Last Twilight and The Sign. 

We ended up bringing two guests on at different times for this one. You’re gonna feel it in the listen for this, we had a really difficult time working through our feelings on Last Twilight. And I think, unlike a lot of the shows we talk on here, where we're just sort of talking about a story that we're having a little fun with, because Last Twilight was a disability narrative, it felt inappropriate for us to maybe make a ton of fun of it and dunk on it. And so large sections of our discussion are us spending a great deal of time personally unpacking where this show let us down. 

So it's not [laughs] our favorite discussion we've had on The Conversation. The show kind of let us down in ways that we didn't really recognize until we were in the booth together. 

NiNi 

Yeah, Last Twilight kind of bummed us out, and I think you definitely hear it on the recording. There was so much that we wanted it to be and so much that we thought it was being, and then the way that it went in the end… yeah, it bummed us out. And you feel that. 

Ben 

However, when we get to The Sign, we will be back to poking fun at some of the silly things that that show was trying to do and try to unpack everything that was the smorgasbord of genres and waistlines. 

NiNi 

[laughs] Not waistlines! 

Ben 

There were a lot of great ones in that show. 

NiNi 

When it comes to being able to have a little bit of a cracked out time, it seems like IdolFactory is always going to take us there. I think this is the most fun that I've had since we did the Gap episode. Having a good old cackle with Aiden; talking through action and all the different myriad, many, multiple genres that this show tried to achieve all at once and didn't quite? I think overall we were just looking in this episode at things that didn't work, why they didn't work, and particularly why things start well and then don't, in the end, deliver. 

Okay, so first up, you'll hear us talking with Captain Hands about Last Twilight. 

00:03:54 - Last Twilight: Roses and Thorns

NiNi 

So we are here with friend of the pod Captain Hands. Say hello, Captain Hands.  

Captain Hands 

Hello! 

NiNi 

And we are going to talk Last Twilight. Ben, take it away. 

Ben 

So, Last Twilight is the last directorial outing that we can expect from Aof Noppharnach for a while — at least that’s what he told us. A young college-aged athlete, after an unexpected injury, begins a rapid decline in his vision. He is no longer really capable of taking care of himself on his own, as he's adapting to his new circumstances, and his family decides to hire a caregiver to help him out. The young man's name is Day, and he is resistant to having someone else following him around, most especially his older brother Night. He is eventually paired with a slightly older young man named Mhok, who is an ex-con who ended up in jail because of a huge street fight he got into. He is struggling to find work, as an ex-con, and he has never really taken the time to properly grieve the untimely death of his older sister. Over the course of the show, Mhok adapts to his new role as Day's caregiver, and because we're in BL, the two of them end up becoming very close and finding something more than just friendship between them. The show wants to follow Day's journey as he comes to terms with what it means for himself to be blind, and Mhok essentially changing his career path as a result of contact with Day. We'll get into how the show tried to wrap up some of these threads. 

NiNi 

Okay, so this is the roses, thorns and buds episode. So let's start with that. Captain Hands, why don't you start with a rose. 

Captain Hands 

A rose for me was the physical intimacy. They did a lot really well with how they used touch in this show, and that I was really thankful for. 

NiNi 

What about you, Ben? Give me a rose. 

Ben 

Every rose does have its thorn. [NiNi laughs] Let's see. I'm going to give a rose to the teamwork between Jimmy and Sea. I don't think that we were necessarily positively disposed to them when we were entering the show. I've been watching some of their BGP for like the last year or so, and I know that they've been working really hard at being comfortable around each other, and I think their teamwork and all the effort they put in really paid off. I think the… pacing of the intimacy between their characters was really easy to follow, and I think a big part of that is the two of them having a lot of trust in each other. 

NiNi 

I am also here to praise Jimmy, not to bury him. I am not a Jimmy fan. I am on record as being terribly worried about how this was going to go because I was not so sure about his acting. I come out of this a little higher on him than I went into it. I think that he did an okay job. And I came out of this really loving Sea. 

In terms of what my rose is, my rose is definitely some of the visual filmmaking. I liked some of the style that went into this in terms of what was happening with the camera, and where some of the shots landed up. 

Okay, so [laughs] I feel like there's gonna be a lot of thorns that we're gonna get into, but everybody just hit me with one thorn. Let's go in reverse order, Ben, what's one of your thorns? 

Ben 

My thorn for Last Twilight is the Dangerous Romance mistake with Jimmy's character, in that they started the show in his character’s perspective, but then wanted to switch over to Day's perspective for basically the rest of the show. It creates this imbalanced expectation in the show for me. I was waiting to get back to the drama that they set up with Mhok, like his issues finding work. What does it mean to him to be coming out of prison and struggling at this point? Or his un-really resolved trauma around his relationship with his sister. I did not get satisfaction in the writing around his character. 

NiNi 

Captain Hands? 

Captain Hands 

My thorn is episode 12. Just all of episode 12. 

NiNi 

I mean, that's one hell of a thorn. [laughs] My thorn is that I think the show was conflicted about whether it maybe wanted to be about temporary disability or permanent disability, and that conflict led to what felt like a swerve at the end that was not handled well at all. 

00:09:35 - Last Twilight: Failed Expectations

NiNi 

We'll save the buds for later so that we have a little bit of hope at the end, but let's kind of dive a little bit more into how you felt about the show, what you were hoping to get out of the show when you went into it, that kind of thing.

Captain Hands 

I was really interested in coming into Last Twilight specifically to see how Aof handled a disability narrative. Of the 109 BLs I have watched, I can count about six that have some form of physical disability or chronic physiological illness. Four of those are Aof’s shows. And so when GMMTV announced Last Twilight was going to be about a character going blind, I was like, oh, cool. I want to see what Aof does when he has a full amount of time to dedicate to a disability narrative. 

NiNi 

Ben, what about you? 

Ben 

Going into this, I was hoping that they were going to delve more into the complexities of class. Day’s family… currently, it seems like they're rich, but it doesn't seem that they started this way. And so, like, Day’s currently a rich kid, but now that he's seen as in some ways an invalid, he no longer feels like he has the status that he's used to having. And so I was really hoping that we’d get this examination about who Day used to be, who he is now, how people used to see him, how people see him now. And use Mhok’s place of always being poor, but now also being considered a criminal…I was hoping there would be way more play with that going into it. I was really hoping that because we were going to be focusing on cross-class romance, and also what it means to care for someone with a disability, that this would be a more… active part of the show? 

NiNi 

This is something that's come up in multiple GMMTV story narratives at this point, where they seem to want to have conversations about class and interclass relationships, and then back away from those conversations almost immediately. The person who is the quote-unquote ‘lower class’ person in the relationship gets lost a little bit? Their problems get subsumed into the problems of the rich person. If you're going to do an interclass romance, do an interclass romance. Take it seriously. Take both sides of the romance seriously — or if you're going to only do one side, do the side of the poorer person. In all these romances, they talk about balance between characters. I don't find these romances are ever balanced. There is always a main character and a love interest, it's never really two main characters. And if you're going to do that, then in some cases I think they need to be switching who is the main character and who is the love interest. 

Captain Hands 

Aof has managed to do some level of interclass dynamics in Moonlight Chicken and so, like, I know that he's capable of doing it. I think here I'm worried that Aof got too in the weeds with focusing on a disability narrative versus focusing on an overarching narrative structure. For me, it felt like every single aspect of this story, as we approached the end, started taking a back seat to Day and Day's disability. 

NiNi 

I think a lot of the issues here ended up with balance and pacing. If this is the story that they wanted to tell, then there were better decisions that could have been made in telling this story. Aof both wanted to focus on the disability and in some weird ways, didn’t to want to focus on it too much? There's a weird tension that runs throughout the entire show. Instead of it being finely balanced, it just feels like it's being pulled in several different directions. I've seen shows that feel like they're gonna pull themselves apart — as we say in Trinidad, “I didn't look for Aof there.” This is not to say that Aof is infallible, but in terms of where I think his narratives might fail, being pulled apart by all the things that they're trying to do is not one of the places I would expect an Aof narrative to fail. 

Captain Hands 

Aof has seemed, in the narratives I've watched of his, to be very intentional with the story that he's telling. That he's acknowledging these gaps in the story and trying to just like, wrap them up with a throw away line rather than deciding to, like, go down those paths. Having Aof open with Mhok with Rung’s death and then to move from that to Day’s blindness during his competition, for me that sets up a narrative where the bones of the story is about grief. Having two different perspectives on grief, following two people whose lives have been forever changed. How those two perspectives could come together to really help each other move on and accept the new realities that they have. And that's not what ended up happening, especially on Mhok’s side. 

Ben 

This hearkens back to my difficulties with Mhok’s writing. It's like the writers really wanted to focus on what Day was experiencing because they didn't want to feel like they were short changing the experience of somebody who had sight but is now blind. And so they really focused on Day, Day’s struggles, and such. And this would be fine if they had not forced me to think about Mhok so much by focusing on him. It was a bad choice in my opinion, to focus us on Mhok for so long, to then have him just be the perfect boyfriend to Day. 

00:15:54 - Last Twilight: Ableism

NiNi

I want to talk a little bit about the threads of ableism. I saw a lot of commentary around the ending, and it's kind of split into two camps: this sucks, Day should not have gotten his eyesight back. And then I saw a second camp: this is what the story set up all along, it's not that giving Day back his eyesight is the ableist bit, but the way in which it was done. Both kind of agree that the narrative got ableist, but they can't agree on why.

Ben

There's, for me, nothing inherently wrong with someone with a curable condition getting the cure to that condition and appreciating that. The frustration for me is they tie it to completing the resolution of the last romantic conflict, as this block that was in the way. It's not what they say from a textual perspective, but it feels like a reward for solving the romantic angst. And then, after spending the first part of your [final] episode in a montage about how well adjusted Day has become, we end on a monologue about how relieved he is to be normal again. And that felt super weird for me, particularly because we come out of the procedure with this really uncomfortable fake out, where we're not certain if Day can see now, and he almost steps into traffic, and then he helps another blind person cross the street. And then like the other guy walks away and is like, thank you. And it felt so weird. I'm still feeling, like, weirdly uncomfortable as I think about that scene.

Captain Hands

I want to make it clear before I really dig into this too much: I'm not blind, but I am disabled, and: in real life, if you have a disability that can be treated, eased, cured by some treatment, and you want to get that? Totally behind you, absolutely support it, go for it, I'm here, I agree. 

However, for me this is a fictional story with a narrative structure that I don't think, after episode 9's failed attempt at an eye donation, supports a secondary restoration of Day's vision. Day has overcome the aspects of his blindness that have kept him cooped up in his room, that have obliterated his self-confidence. He was able to not only survive, but thrive with his blindness. He graduated, he opened the bookstore. Great… We don't get enough time with that. I think if you are going to have the moments where Day’s vision is restored, then you need to get the proper nuance and time dedicated to pursuing that.

NiNi

For me, what happens is that I feel that Day actually gets lost in the disability narrative. Day was an athlete before he lost his vision. I don't have a sense of who Day is outside of that, that Day even has a conception of who he is outside of that, that that's something that he's struggling with in any way. I don't have a conception of what he sees his life looking like, whether or not he regains his vision. Day’s hopes, his dreams, the kinds of things that you would talk about with a lover, I don't get any conception of those things. The blindness is just hanging over everything. And I understand that that is a thing that happens, it just kind of blots out everything else, but my problem isn't so much with whether or not Day’s vision gets restored. My issue is really that — other than the fact that he's an asshole, [laughs] I don't have a sense really of who Day is and what his dreams and desires are aside from the blindness, aside from the accident, aside from the cornea transplant, aside from all this stuff surrounding that issue.

If he is in love with Mhok, you would think that these would be things that they would be talking about. You talk about things like your dreams and desires with the person that you love. You talk about your deep feelings. I just don't feel like that happens at all between them, but especially not for Day. And then when Day starts developing his life as a blind person, like accepting being blind, even if it's a long-term temporary thing, it's all montaged. It's montaged before he regains his vision, it's montaged after he regains his vision. I just lose Day entirely in that part of the story. I feel like after episode 9, I have lost both of the characters. I don't know who they are. I don't know where they're going. I wanted it to be deeper. It feels like the narrative of Last Twilight is floating on top of the real story underneath, which is what I wanted to get to.

Captain Hands

Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most about the choice to restore Day's vision is that Day never once does any type of significant support for Mhok throughout the entire show. And then he gets his vision back, and it is the first time that Mhok says he has somebody to look after him and take care of him. It eliminates any potential conflicts in the future with Day’s fears about Mhok pitying him, because now his vision is restored, so what is there to pity? I am all about reciprocity when it comes to the relationships that occur in BL, and that just does not exist in any way shape or form in this story at all.

00:22:02- Last Twilight: Buds

NiNi

I think we've reached the buds with that. So Ben, go ahead.

Ben

Let's discuss how this particular project could have been improved. I will go first.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

Proceed bestie, you have the floor.

Ben

Oh, I'm sorry, did you wanna go first, sis? I'll let you.

NiNi

Oh no no no no, you absolutely have to go first, I insist.

Ben

If we accept the first 11 episodes as they are, we just have to rewrite episode 12. Instead of time skipping three years immediately, we first come back to the day after the breakup and have Day and Mhok talk about what's going on. They could still make the choice to take a break from each other, recognizing that they've gotten way too wrapped up in each other. They could make the realization themselves that they have lost themselves in caring for Day and managing Day being blind. We can still have the episode 11 break up and the drama of that. And then their reconciliation or reunion in Thailand again could have a difference to it of, “I'm really happy to see you again, but I also feel a little bit different now.” And then we can have them working out their relationship together for a few years and then the eye donation thing comes up. We can still do all of that. We just don't do it from the, “I'm not gonna talk to you for three years. Hmmph!”

NiNi

So that's actually not my problem with it. Because as I said, Day’s an asshole, and he's also kind of stubborn. I can see him making the wrong decision in that moment, I can see that festering, I can see that turning into three years of silence. I can see all of that. What I can't see is that when Mhok comes back to Thailand, that Day hasn't been thinking about this, that he hasn't, over the intervening three years, realized that he was in the wrong. I don't see him not apologizing. That's where it got stuck for me. Even if it is that Mhok comes back and tries to be the one to apologize, then have Day say, “No, I was wrong.” That's all it would have taken for me, honestly, [laughs] but I'm super easy. We know that.

Captain Hands

I think you have Mhok’s trauma be at war with Day’s trauma, to lead to a bigger argument with more basis for it. Then you could break them up. You have them reconcile, be in their relationship for a while. Day gets to have a relationship with Mhok where you navigate having to readjust from being a caretaker to being a partner, and then you can have Day get the phone call from the eye donation center and you can end it ambiguously. If the last thing that had happened in this show was them unwrapping Day's bandages and us not knowing whether or not the surgery worked? If we could have ended on that ambiguity, that would have worked infinitely better, and also, I don't know that Day owes it to us to show us how that resolves.

00:25:22 - Last Twilight: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

Wrapping up our discussion here on Last Twilight. NiNi, ratings and final thoughts?

NiNi

There are good parts to the show. Mark Pakin, always a winner.

Captain Hands

Always, always, always.

NiNi

I enjoyed Namtan in this. Despite me thinking Namtan is incredibly talented, I have not always enjoyed her, but I really enjoyed her in this role as Porjai. I I liked all the stuff surrounding Day’s old friends with Film and Baby Ohm, but I feel like all that stuff sort of ended up ephemeral. It didn't stick. It didn't feel like it was resonant. 

So I ended up at a 6.5. I never rate really in connection to anything else. All my ratings are independent of all my other ratings. I just kind of have general categories of enjoyment that land in certain brackets. A 6.5 on this show for me means that I think it was ultimately a failure, although there was a lot to recommend about it. I really loved Mark and Namtan. I really found myself enjoying Sea and Baby Ohm and being impressed by Jimmy. And then the visual storytelling, the camera work and some of all of that, some of the very real chemistry I felt between Jimmy and Sea in certain parts. 

So for all of that, it gets a 6.5. But in terms of the story, I think the story was a failure. I think that what it wanted to say, and what it thought it was saying, and what it was actually saying are three different things, and that's never good.

Ben

Okay. NiNi is going with 6.5. Captain Hands, give us your rating and final verdict on this show.

Captain Hands

I gave it a 3. I don't think that the ending was handled responsibly. There are moments of unconscious ableism peppered throughout that are really solidified by the ending, and I do think it undermines almost all of the narrative structure that Aof set up at the beginning.

Ben

I went with a 5. I think that the character writing for the core couple of this was a bit thin by the end. And it is why I think their finale doesn't land so well, because they're not entirely certain what to do with their own characters in the little tiny world they set up for them, and it eventually just sort of crumbles on itself. You can tell they weren't certain how to end it on a poignant note without feeling like they were going to be ableist, so they tried to go for a more, “everything's okay now” happy ending, and I just don't think it works out the way they hoped it would. 

Truly, I don't think the show was unwatchable for most of its run, but do I want to share this show with other people? And I kinda don't, and that's why I'm putting it at a 5.

NiNi

This is one that I think maybe should not have been a BL in the sense of it being a romance. I think that, very much like Never Let Me Go around this time last year, that trying to fit this story into BL conventions maybe harmed it, and what the story maybe wanted to be about got lost.

Ben

So with that, this show gets a dubious 4.5 or 5 from The Conversation. Thank you for joining us, Captain Hands.

Captain Hands

Thanks for having me!

Ben

We'll see you all in the next segment.

00:29:26 - Intermezzo

Ben 

Ben and NiNi from the future here again. It's so difficult to listen to this again. We recorded this a while ago and there was a ton that Captain Hands and I said that ends up not making it into the edit because it's a… basically long diatribe against so many things that the show did that were really off-putting towards the end? I feel like part of the angst in the conversation is not wanting to say mean things about Aof, but I think bro has to take his L on this one. 

NiNi 

I don't think it's necessarily about saying bad things about Aof, because Aof can definitely make mistakes and he definitely made a lot of mistakes on this show. I think it is just more a question of, at what point does our litany of woe start to feel like a real downer? [laughs] Like I said before in the introduction, this show just bummed us out. And the longer that goes on, I feel like the less that you want to keep listening to it. 

Ben 

I just feel like the next time I'm this irritated with a show, I'm gonna have to hit them with the same three minutes that I did on New Siwaj. [NiNi laughs] We just need to get it out. 

I think with any other show I might have just been like, well, this kind of sucked and I would have moved on. It's frustrating when the show feels like it was trying to take us into some really interesting space, and talking about the kinds of people we don't always see in any of our stories, let alone in queer stories, and then just really fucking it up at the end. That was just so truly, fundamentally disappointing. Particularly because we thought that this team had the bona fides to not do that. And I'm kind of bummed that this is the last thing we're going to probably see from Aof, maybe for a while. What a way to go out. 

NiNi 

If we go back to our recordings from before the show, I think we did have reservations going into this as to whether we were going to like it or not. Like, when we were looking at what was coming up in 2023, I think we were all kind of, “Ooh, I don't know, it's a heavy thing to take on. Let's see how they do with it.” And I think it was that experience of being skeptical going in, having it go well at the beginning, and then collapsing. We wanted to believe and then for a while we did believe and then our belief was not rewarded, and that experience is just never fun. 

Let's leave that behind. I think we've aired our feelings about it. It's a wrap. We will be moving from there into talking about something that was probably worse overall, but more entertaining to discuss. 

Ben 

That's right, listeners, thank you for spending a moody half hour with us over Last Twilight. Onto The Sign! Let's talk about Babe’s waistline. 

00:32:43 - The Sign: Roses

NiNi

We are here to talk about The Sign! And we have yet another very special guest and friend of the pod, Aiden, with us. Say hi Aiden!

Aiden

Hello.

NiNi

Ben, take us into it. What is The Sign about?

Ben

The Sign is a multi-genre project from IdolFactory that blends a reincarnation love story with fantastical elements built around Thai mythology about the Naga and Garuda, along with a murder mystery police pseudo-procedural, and also sort of an action thriller? To relatively mixed results. 

The show begins with Tharn, a young man who is in a very difficult sort of boot camp experience that's also a vetting process for an elite team of investigators. He's here along with his childhood friend who's kind of like a brother to him, Yai. And they are trying to prove their worth to join this elite unit because Tharn wants to investigate the death of his parents ‘cause he believes foul play was involved. Very early on, we get caught up in the supernatural stuff, where Tharn seems to have visions of impending doom about people, particularly one guy named Phaya who’s in his unit. Over the course of their early training, they end up kind of getting involved in a mystery investigation together… they and some other gays get selected to be part of this elite unit and then start working as supercops or whatever. And then proceed to get their asses beat every time they have to fight somebody for, like, the next nine episodes, while a bunch of other shit happens with the Naga and Garuda stuff. 

I want to describe the plot of this in a more coherent way, but it is kind of hard to because it isn't? There's a ongoing bit of drama with the doctor who's close to Tharn, who's also reincarnated, might be the same dude who's been trying to fuck Tharn for like, eight millennia or whatever. This is supposed to blend in with the cop mystery shit and the corrupt politician. It does not all come together well.

NiNi

This is the roses, buds, and thorns episode. So what are the roses on The Sign?

Aiden

They did a really solid job with the opening action scene. The trainees storming this compound and having to rescue different hostages, that was pretty well done. It was clear to me that it was a team that was in training or not really well gelled together. Really well done.

NiNi

Aiden is our resident action specialist.

Ben

We got tired of watching mid-tier BL on Mondays and started watching action film. [laughs] We watched My Dear Gangster Oppa like, “That's it, we're watching John Wick,” and then started watching all other sorts of action stuff. So we've been spending our boy time on ass-kicking lately.

Aiden

We wanted to enjoy the good stuff.

NiNi

Ben, do you have a rose on this show?

Ben

Oh yeah! Babe’s waistline.

NiNi

[laughs] Ben’s like, “that boy is beautiful!”

Ben

He is! All right, let's talk about Babe for a second, let me be real. I think Babe is one of the most perfectly designed BL boys we've had in a while. He has really well-cared-for skin, ample lips, an incredible waistline, and he plays off of his scene partners really well. It’s kind of notable when you look at some of the early sequences, when he's mostly in bro mode with Yai, Khem and Thongtai. He's very much playing the role of dude and bro with them, but there’s a much softer and more sensual aspect of him that we see a lot more of in his scenes with Phaya. I think Babe transitions into either of those modes fairly well across the show, even if I think he often gets let down by the script and unclear direction, particularly in the back half. I feel bad for Babe because I think he's really good in about the first six-to-eightish episodes? As things get really muddled in the last four to five episodes of the show, Babe is struggling a lot in some of his scenes, but I don't really think it's his fault. 

I actually think the cast chemistry of this show is really good. All of my favorite scenes in this show are when their cohort is together and just having a good time. Another rose: Yoshi Rinrada is in this! I was watching with David and in the first episode David made me pause. He's like, “We gotta stop. Who is this big ass man with these arms?” And then in like episode two or three, we meet Sand, his wife, and David's like, “Who is this woman and why does she get our man?” 

And I'm like, “Dude, that's Yoshi Rinrada. She's Miss Tiffany Universe 2017.”

“Oh shit, she's a sis? Well, she looks good in that top. I'm really glad that one of ours got this one.”

[NiNi laughs]

He's like, “Who is this woman, I'm gonna fight her. Oh, never mind.”

NiNi

Love it.

Ben

[laughs] I'ma count it as a win for us.

NiNi

My rose…I'm gonna give it to Billy actually. I've seen Billy in a few things at this point, but he used to act mostly opposite Seng Wichai, and Seng Wichai is so dazzling that I did not notice anything that Billy was doing next to Seng Wichai. Watching Billy in this and finally really seeing him, really paying attention to him, he is quite a good actor. He puts a lot into it. His character is very…stable, I guess is the best word? I don't lose bits of the character.

Ben

I think his performance is really consistent. Like, you can tell when he maintained the right level between takes.

NiNi

Yeah, definitely. He's very good. And I had not noticed him really before now, and that was my mistake. So Billy is my rose, Billy and Gap Jakarin and his arms and his face and his everything.

00:39:32 - The Sign: Thorns

Ben 

Let's get to thorns, let's talk about things that the show fucked up on. Let's start with the worst thing that this show did. This show sets up a multi-millennia reincarnation story about cycles repeating over every lifetime, does not do a great job showing us how this has been expressed through multiple lifetimes, has Tharn/Wansarat die in the same way like two or three times? And then the resolution to this conflict that has existed across eons happens off screen in the final episode, and they're just like, “It's over!”

Aiden 

For me, I think the most egregious thing was to set them up as trainees for an elite fighting force that are supposed to be these top-of-the-top investigators, and then at every turn they fail at both investigating and action, and every major interaction that they have is ineffectual at best? Like the finale, the bit where everybody is lining up in a row in front of the Jeep, firing in a line, standing still. [NiNi laughs] Phaya doesn't even have armor!

Ben 

It was very much giving, like, recent Fast and the Furious movies where, like, they're joking about how bullets don't touch them. 

NiNi 

Aiden is being very gentle and super sweet about really nailing this shit to the wall. Y'all know me, I'm about to be crass. What the fuck was this show? It wanted to be 17 things in a sack, and it ended up being sort of none of those things, and then ends as a wet fart. It just kind of [fart noise] ends. Like, what's happening here? What's going on? Why is this where we are? 

It all happens off screen! And then we get exposition at the end of the show! And then we're supposed to be excited because in a post-credits scene, Saint shows up and he has Garuda wings. No, absolutely not. Y’all did not earn any excitement for a potential future. Absolutely not! 

This show pissed me off. And I did not realize how much this show pissed me off until right this second. 

Ben 

Good. Kill ‘em, bestie. 

NiNi 

Like, legit. So earlier in this episode, we talked with Captain Hands about Last Twilight, and the problem with Last Twilight was that it was going pretty well, and then went completely off the rails right at the end. This show has been wobbly from the start, but it was still enjoyable. And then it started just sinking and sinking and sinking. It's like that horse drawing meme where the ass end of the horse is all beautiful and shaded and drawn correctly, and the front end of the horse is a fucking stick figure. And that's what this show is like. This show feels like whoever was doing the show ran out of steam. In terms of the story, they just kind of hand waved it at the end. Nothing made any sense from somewhere in the middle. There was way too much of this cop shit. Nobody was interested in it. Nobody says you can't do a cop show, but if you're gonna do a cop show, let's be slightly critical, I think, of what it is you're doing. At least in my personal view. 

I am just really upset because this show had so much potential, it just tried to do too many things at once and ended up doing none of them well. And I am much more pissed about that than I realized, whew.

Aiden 

Feel better now? 

NiNi 

No, [laughs] I do not, in fact, feel better.

Ben 

And another thing!

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

If the show wanted to be a fantasy BL about this mythology of the Naga and the Garuda and this love across millennia and multiple lifetimes thing, there is a way for it to do that really well. They had all the minerals to do that really well. Then they decided they were going to mix it up with this modern era cop shit. Okay, there's a way to make these two things play off of each other, and then it didn't do that either. And then, in the action BL, nobody can fight, even though they spend the first two episodes getting really good at fighting, apparently?

Ben 

Mmm yes, let's discuss this more. 

Aiden 

A training montage for nothing. [laughs]

Ben 

In the final episode, everybody's getting shot at, people are getting tied up. They get into this showdown where it's them against the mini boss who's been whooping their ass all season. And I'm like, literally, nothing has changed. He's just gonna kick their asses again. Oh, nevermind. I guess snake dude is here. Whatever. 

NiNi 

[laughs] But up until snake dude showed up, he was in fact whooping their asses. 

Ben 

They're like “Oh Tharn, go get him,” and I'm like, by himself? Again? Tharn has literally not won a fight in this show. [laughs] Why are we sending him out here by himself? 

NiNi 

Not won a single figh—like, I don't even unders—like, you're supposed to be an elite, highly trained, weird paramilitary cop thing, and literally, you have never won a fight. Not one!

Ben 

They go out of their way to establish these guys are good because they want to highlight that these other guys are also very good? But, like, we don't see them having moderate wins against other opponents. We just see them getting their asses kicked all the time. What was the point of the two fucking episodes of super cop shit? We don't get the transition of, okay they're good cops now doing good cop shit as we're dealing with the supernatural and the romance stuff, we just see this weird, useless cop shit happening. Just this meandering plot of whatever this fucking group is supposed to do. They end up doing guard duty at a party at some point. Why? They're a team of elite investigators! I don't get it. 

Aiden 

It's for the tuxedos. 

Ben 

Oh, there you go. Thank you, Aiden. 

NiNi 

But even the tuxedos were ill-fitting. The only good thing about that episode was Nat Sakdatorn. Hey, boo, hey, loved seeing you. You were fantastic. You deserved so much better than this. 

Ben 

In the case of an action story, the action has to help tell the story, and the problem with The Sign is most of its action sequences feel unmoored from any sort of character building and storytelling, and mostly just tell us that these guys are actually not that good. For all that we ragged on it, My Dear Gangster Oppa communicates that Thiu is actually good at violence: the storytelling and what they put him through reflects that he is competent at the violence portion of his job. 

Aiden 

If they wanted us to believe that this team was elite and effective, they needed to show that, and they jumped straight to the part where these bad guys are so powerful and effective that our elite fighting force is struggling. But you missed the point where you established them actually being an elite fighting force. 

Ben 

I really wish they had done, like a case of the week format, at least for a few episodes once they transitioned into being the investigators, because immediately throwing them into this meandering-ass police plot was just so fuckin’ boring and unsatisfying. And I'm an American, I've grown up watching a lot of fucking police procedurals. I don't remember the fucking plots of most of these fucking mysteries, but I remember following the format and being like, “ooh, look at everybody doing their job, solving the case, working together as a team. I love that shit. They got pensions, too. Amazing.” But that is just not here. At all. It sucks. 

NiNi 

[laughs] Not pensions! Not pensions, I hate you, bestie. 

Ben 

That's the primary appeal of the cop procedural. You're watching people who seem to like their jobs, seem to like and/or respect the people they work with, and pursue those jobs, and also sometimes try to maintain meaningful relationships inside and outside of that job. And we know that they're all gonna get to retire at some point, because older characters retiring is often one of the big struggles of, the team’s gonna change because [old cop voice] “It's been 40 years, man, it's time for me to go.” [NiNi laughs] Like, you don't get that in these when they don't build out those dynamics. 

This cast has good chemistry, but this whole work is bloated but also weirdly empty. There are moments that were really fun, Babe and Billy do a good job at the scene work between their characters, but the overall flow of this show is just not great. 

00:48:43 - The Sign: Buds

NiNi

We're clearly into the buds now.

Ben

We're in the weeds!

NiNi

[laughs] I wanna pick up on something that Aiden said about there having to be wins before the last boss, mini bosses in an action drama. You need to establish the competence of the mains before you throw them into a situation that they can't handle. This show seemed to be lacking that. 

So, my main bud is probably going to be throwing in some sort of shorter episodic case-of-the-week kind of things to build up that competency. I don't mind the way that the show was structured in arcs, but the arcs they chose were just weird, yo. Basically, none of the arcs made any sense. They didn't connect what was going on in the worldly arc to what is happening in the otherworldly arc. It just feels like a big ol’ mess. Like the first case, the first arc…

Ben

Now you made me mad. That arc could have been really interesting. It could have been this whole reveal about Chalothorn’s twisted sense of ire about this whole thing. He feels like Wansarat was stolen from him. There could have been this whole thing with the guy trying to torture all of the survivors conflating this with Chalothorn’s fucked up perspective that he is owed Wansarat’s affections, because he's like a fucked up men's rights activist type? But they don't really connect that back to the Chalothorn stuff. 

There's this clear Naga influence over this guy where he gets powered up and Tharn has to maybe tap into latent Naga powers that he may or may not have? That whole flare up of Naga nonsense never really got explained or tied into some of the stuff going on. There's like a whole bit where they're having Phaya take a break from regular police work to be like, what's all this weird shit happening? And there's not a lot of great payoff from that. And then there's, like, the point you made about some of the structure of when certain things should happen. Would you like to go on that rant now, bestie?

NiNi

Oh, the way they should have fucked in Nong Kai? Hello. [laughs]

Ben

There you go. How about you tell the people why they should have fucked in Nong Kai?

NiNi

Before we get there, Aiden, why don't you tell us some of your buds?

Aiden

I think the largest bud that I would have is the involvement of the CGI, the special effects. Saint has said in interviews that he sunk an awful lot of his own money in this, which seems to be a trend for him. Buddy, you gotta get stable here financially. But he really wanted to make sure to do it right, and take the time, and spend a lot of effort on those scenes. And it does show that that level of passion was there, but it could have been utilized plot-wise better. The choices of when and where, and the scenes that they portrayed, just like with the rest of the plot, it lacked the connection to really make it have that emotional resonance, or furthering the relationships in some way. 

Like, the Naga and Garuda fights? Well, they, that's awesome. Good job! It didn't really have much of an impact on the relationships as a whole. They could have had just the scenes of them in human form fighting and it would have had the same effect.

NiNi

Those Naga and Garuda fights, they had, like, a certain anime energy that I quite enjoyed, but I think there were too many of them. So by the time that you get to the end, you've kind of lost the freshness of the first one. The first Naga/Garuda fight was actually pretty good, but by the time you see like four or five of them, you’re just kind of like, “All right, what else have you got for me?” If they had used some of that CGI money to do like a whole episode of the Naga and the Garudas—

Ben

They tried. I think that was episode 7. It sucked.

NiNi

But they only did maybe one part of an episode? I think that there should have been one or two episodes of the backstory. We're talking about love across centuries, millennia, through multiple lifetimes kind of thing.

Ben

We get the backstory and it's weak. Why did we spend 20 minutes on info that we basically already had? The whole reveal about Wansarat and whatever Phaya’s last character's name was—because I don't even think they mentioned it in that episode—is not that compelling. It's basically what we already knew or presumed.

NiNi

What happened in that episode: it gives us the plot, but not the story. There is no resonance from what they gave us. They don't let us sit in it. They don't let us feel the feelings. We don't even know how they fell in love! One moment Wansarat is saving the Garuda from dying because he was fighting with Chalothorn in the sky and, like, fell to Earth. She's like, “I hate you, but I guess I'll save your life.” And then the literal next second we see them, they're already in love and we're like, “Wait, how did this even happen?”

Ben

I wish they had kept the original plan, which was it takes them multiple lifetimes before they fall. That her initial reasons for getting involved were more noble and not romantic.

NiNi

This show put its energy in all the wrong places. All of the energy of the show went into things that were around the edges. There's too much going on and none of it is connecting. There's all these things that they wanted to do, they wanted to show off that they could do these things. But the center of this feels hollow, it feels really empty at the core of it. It doesn't feel like there's anything to hold onto. It feels like an orb of glass, and if I grip it too hard, it's gonna shatter and there's nothing inside. Like a sugar cube. They spent apparently something close to three million dollars on this show. I don't feel like that money was well spent, I just don't.

Ben

I think it stands out in the fuckin’ finale, where we're about to have their last sex scene. Whatever he agreed to with Chalothorn happens off screen. We know he's gonna leave, but Tharn doing self-sacrificial, stay-away-from-me-bro shit because he's worried people are gonna die is just in line with his character. So it doesn't really land as this major moment of, like, a sad choice happening. I'm just like, okay, whatever, you guys can have your sex, I hope it’s good.

NiNi

It felt empty, like everything else towards the end of the show felt empty.

Ben

That shot of the water under the bed, though? That was really fucking cool.

NiNi

That hit—

Aiden

Definitely.

NiNi

—I do have to say, but it was just a moment. It hit, yes, but the resonance that I wanted to feel, I wanted it to hurt, not just hit.

00:56:03 - The Sign: WTFery

Ben 

What the fuck does Tharn’s grandmother know, by the way? 

NiNi

Oh!

Ben

I do not trust that woman. 

Aiden 

Too much and she doesn't say enough. 

NiNi 

Aiden, I need you to get into this because I feel like you are probably the most pissed at how little anybody told Tharn about what was happening. 

Aiden 

He was shut out from everybody in his life. His grandma, the monk, and then Phaya also is told by them to not say a single thing to Tharn to keep him informed, to make the decisions of his own life. This entire time, the grandma has known that Chalothorn is bad news and has never said a single thing to Tharn about it. 

We were also robbed of the old woman yuri! [Aiden and NiNi laugh] That's another story. 

NiNi 

Ooh, she fainted directly into homegirl's arms and it was beautiful.

Ben 

Right into her titties. [NiNi and Aiden laugh] Rest on her boobs, it will help. 

NiNi 

I hope we get more lesbians this year because we need them. 

Aiden 

Speaking of which, the side with the sister and Dao, that was another potential that went nowhere. That seems to solely have been put there for soft launching their pairing. 

Ben

[whispers] Oh my god.

NiNi 

What was even the point of Dao as a character?

Ben 

She came. She served. She left. 

NiNi

Did she serve? 

Ben

She did. 

NiNi 

Where? 

Ben 

When she wore like a little booty dress [laughs] to the fucking hospital. [NiNi and Aiden laugh] Like, oh, is your brother having a hard time? Well here's my thighs, maybe they’ll help.

Aiden 

I mean, was she wrong? 

Ben 

Yes! That was not hygienic. 

Aiden 

She's not a doctor. 

NiNi 

She’s gonna end up with a staph infection in her coochie or something. It’s not good. You shouldn’t wear anything that short to the hospital, bestie! You don't know what's floating around out there. No! 

Ben 

I don't feel like the Khem and Thongthai backstory did much for us, either. It was implied that they were having, like, gay relationship drama, where like Khem is a pretty affectionate lover, but he struggles with exclusivity, and then they just don't do anything with that? The seal clap shit was funny, but–

NiNi 

Hilarious, I do have to say. [Aiden and NiNi laugh]

Ben 

–I don’t think it really adds anything to the experience we got with them as characters or their role in the story. The sides aren't really used well. You’ve got Khem and Thongthai, who could have served as, like, a foil or comparison for the relationship that Tharn and Phaya were having, or maybe even one that Yai was having with Sand, and that just doesn't really work that well here. We came close to that once where Tharn is having the conversation with Sand about his reticence, about how people around him seem to die mysteriously. 

Again, there was potential here with Chalothorn fucking around with Tharn’s life, killing people close to him because he needs to fuck him so badly. But that also has no interesting payoff whatsoever. 

NiNi 

Let's count the dropped plots and the dropped threads. So that's one, anything to do with Dao, that was a dropped thread. Mayris. Where the fuck did Mayris go? Could somebody tell me where Mayris is? Where was she last? When did we last see her? 

Ben 

She was crying in the finale somewhere. 

NiNi 

What? Where? I didn't see her. 

Aiden 

Outside the interrogation room. 

NiNi 

Oh, I desperately must not have paid that much attention to the finale, then. 

Ben 

See? I mean you asked, damn. 

NiNi 

I did not even see her. 

[all laugh]

Ben 

Chalothorn clearly manipulating multiple people around their cases. 

Aiden 

Having powers over their mindset. Montree was kept aside to turn on whoever was behind him. That went nowhere. 

Ben 

I guess that's supposed to be a season 2 thread. 

Aiden 

Of course. 

NiNi 

No.

[Ben laughs]

Aiden 

Chart being shot and then, he's fine! 

Ben 

Offscreen–he's fine! 

NiNi 

Not just Chart, Chart and Khem both get shot!

Aiden 

Yes, yes. 

NiNi 

And they are just like, “ehh, they're okay, they're gonna be fine.” Can we see them? That would be good. 

If I start counting these things up, it's gonna be dramatic. 

Aiden 

Tharn’s Exposition Fairy and her thing that she had for Chalothorn went nowhere. 

Ben 

Oh yeah, the sister. Wanwisa. 

NiNi 

Where did she go? 

Ben 

The Abbott’s ability to speak. 

Aiden

Yeah! [laughs]

NiNi 

There was an implication that the Abbott was also a Naga, and that got dropped. When you're doing fantasy, you have to explain the world and the rules of the world. However you choose to do that, there are multiple ways to do that. But this show does not explain the world, it doesn't explain the rules of the world, it doesn't explain the backstory of the world, it doesn't explain how these characters are all connected in that backstory. It just kind of hand waves a lot. It leaves some pretty big gaps. I don't even know that it expects the audience to fill those gaps, because how would the audience fill those gaps? There are no clues for the audience to fill in those gaps. It's just, holes. Like, [laughs]. Holes, I’m 12. 

Ben 

Did you really just send yourself into a giggle fit over that? 

NiNi

I did!

Ben

There was a whole joke in, like, “This show just leaves a Gap everywhere (the Series).” Insert it instead. 

[Aiden laughs]

NiNi 

No, but the thing is, people complain all the time about these shows, about, “Oh this is a plot hole and this is a plot hole” and most of the times, these are not plot holes that they're complaining about, just stuff that they didn't like or stuff that you could actually fill in from the context clues. This show has actual plot holes in it, like, massive, could-drive-a-truck-into-them plot holes. It's not good besties. It just really is not good. 

And then let's talk about the cash grab at the end and how it ruined any chance the show had of being successful. When a show is fun but not great, you want to keep the momentum going so that people don't have time to stop and think about how the show is not great. For them [laughs] to spend three weeks between the second to last episode and the last episode in order to do a cash grab in the middle, killed any sense of momentum they might have had going into the finale and makes the finale feel even worse and emptier. 

Ben 

That's true. Being away from the show for two weeks, I had no real sense of anticipation coming back into the finale. I'm like, what the fuck was happening? I heard, like, Tony the Tiger was loose in the jungle or some shit? I don't know. 

Aiden 

They fell off a cliff. 

NiNi 

That's another dropped plot thread. How did they fall off the cliff and end up in a cave? Nobody knows. And then they're in the cave for like two minutes, and then Yai comes and gets them. This show pissed me off so bad. 

Aiden 

I want to mention the bit where they changed the ending for the censored version that aired on TV in Thailand to be the tragic ending where Phaya is just grieving. That wasn't it. 

NiNi 

Yes, but also, given the actual reconciliation, who really lost? Was it the people who watched the censored version [NiNi and Aiden laugh] or the people who watched the uncensored version? I don't know. 

01:04:24 - The Sign: Final Thoughts and Ratings

NiNi 

[sighs] I am going to have to give this—let me count up the things that I enjoyed about it and the things that worked and balance them against the things that didn't. I'm probably gonna give this a solid 5, and why it's getting a 5 among everything else…let's go back to the fact that they should have fucked in Nong Khai. Let's talk about the actual romance [laughs] and how the contours of the romance are also not good, and this is a BL! The romance is supposed to be the point! So the fact that the actual shape and plot and arc of the romance does not work because they're trying to be precious about the sexy times? Horrible. It's a 5. It's bad. 

Aiden, give us your rating. What do you think? 

Aiden 

Oh goodness, I very very rarely give things an actual numerical rating. I'd say 5.5. With a half knocked off for most of the finale that failed to stick multiple landings. I would have given it a 6 right up until then, I think. 

NiNi 

You only knocked off a half for that? You are such a generous and kind soul. [laughs] Ben, what about you? What did you rate it? 

Ben 

I originally gave it a 6.5 because I liked some of the experimental stuff going on on the production side. But most of that was in service to bad copaganda, so, I decided to remove the “you tried” 1.5 I had given it, and I'm knocking it down to a 5. Because, I don't ever want to watch it again, and I really don't want to recommend it to people so that they can then try to talk to me about it. 

[NiNi and Aiden laugh]

NiNi 

Ben’s like, I'm gonna give this a rating so that you know we shall never speak about this. 

Ben 

It sucks! I don't really wanna rate one of Saint’s projects poorly and dunk on it, but this was a miss. It was an interesting swing, but it's a miss. I'm not mad at this show, I'm just bored and disappointed. This is not what I hoped we were getting. Oh well, I hope I get to see Babe again. That's where I am. [laughs] 

Aiden 

Likewise, they had so many good potentials with the cast, they spent a ton of time training for the action sequences, and they spent a lot of money on the CGI. I love that they gave the attempt. It just fell flat on the writing. 

Ben 

You know why I'm also giving it a 5? Phaya wanted Tharn to rail him and he didn't get that. 

NiNi 

Thank you, bestie! Thank you so much. 

Aiden

Mmhmm. 

NiNi

Billy was giving out top quality rail me energy the entire time and the character did not get railed. And I am very upset about this. 

Aiden 

He's due on the next one. 

NiNi 

So let's see. 5, 5.5 and 5, it gets a 5 from The Conversation. The Sign is not recommended. 

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Ben 

It's not a show that's worth recommending. If you watch the show through gifsets only, you have seen the best of the show. The version of the show that exists in your head is the best version of the show you're gonna get. Do not ruin that by actually watching it. 

NiNi 

I'm just so disappointed. Before the show started, given all of IdolFactory’s work up until now, I thought the show was going to be saying something about queerness. The IdolFactory work that we've gotten so far, what we've gotten in Gap, what we got in Secret Crush on You, they're delving into fats and fems, delving into lesbians. And this show, I thought it was gonna be about hypermasculinity. 

Ben 

And they brought Surprise back from when he played the chunky friend, and he was fit this time! 

NiNi 

Waste of time. What was he even there for?

Ben 

He was there so I could make surprise, Surprise jokes every week. 

NiNi 

If you are the writer — or worse, if you are the editor. Looking at the script and looking at the footage that you have in front of you, this is the story that you cut together? Legit, what's going on here? We need to have a conversation. 

Ben 

IdolFactory’s run by actors, and it's very clear that the writers, editors, and the money nerds are not the ones who are in the strongest decision making position. It's clearly the costuming team and the actors who are in charge. 

[Ben and Aiden laughs]

NiNi 

Everything always looks really good. Everybody's very pretty and it makes no goddamn sense. [laughs] But when it makes no goddamn sense, it could still be fun like Gap was. How is Secret Crush On You, like, its high water mark so far? 

Ben 

Because Cheewin’s work is usually coherent. Well…sometimes. 

NiNi 

[laughs] I was about to say, coherent is a very strong word, but um, it usually… has something to say. 

Ben

Yeah.

NiNi

I feel like I don't know what this show wanted to say. 

Ben 

That's really the thing. It felt very vapid at the end. 

NiNi 

It felt very vapid, period. We don't like it, besties. It's a no from us. 

Ben 

One chop.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Aiden 

Two chops. 

NiNi 

Three motherfucking chops. 

01:10:02 - Outro

Ben 

Ben and NiNi from the future for the last time, for the first time. 

NiNi 

For all the times. [Ben and NiNi laugh] 

First off, we didn't get to let Aiden say bye to the people, so—

Ben 

[whispers] Oh my God. [laughs] 

NiNi

— I just wanted to say, I just wanted to say from the future, thank you, Aiden, for joining us. And next time, we will ensure that you say bye to the people properly. [laughs] 

Ben 

Oh my God. 

NiNi 

Okay. So we talked about Last Twilight, we talked about The Sign. Now we're going to talk about why Thai BL has been having performance issues. This is definitely something that Ben has been very grumpy about recently. I have also been grumpy, but probably to a slightly lesser extent. Ben, what are you feeling when it comes to these shows sort of going down at the last hurdle? 

Ben 

The concern I have is that it doesn't really matter. The finances of BL don't really care about endings, they care about pitches. They just need the audience to think that the story is engaging or interesting or pretty enough to commit on the front end to line up all of their sponsors, to get them in the room. And it doesn't exactly matter if the story is good or bad because we already got paid, and the actors were charming enough that we can milk that for more advertising later, and then move on. And I'm concerned that we are going to see a lot more products designed to just titillate fan interest in the actor pair, and not care about whether or not there's anything meaningful from a storytelling perspective happening around that, because it doesn't matter. And that irks me as a lover of stories. There is not a financial incentive, I think, with the way romance is structured, for them to stick the landing. The writers’ pressure that they're feeling, economically and financially, is not about finishing the story strong. It's about starting them strong and holding through, like, the 60% drama part. As long as that part isn't horrendous, they're gonna get paid and they're gonna be fine. I don't know that Thai BL exists in a framework where they have to care about how their shows end. 

NiNi 

I think all that said is true, but I think when it comes to these two shows in particular, I'm not sure that the failures are that mercenary. And this is where I am giving a little bit of grace based on the past when it comes to these two creative teams. When it comes to Saint and IdolFactory, I feel like Saint definitely has a mission that he wants to fulfill outside of the financial. 

When it came to the story of The Sign, this is an adaptation. This is not an original story. I just feel like maybe they took on too much and ran out of steam more, necessarily, than they didn't care about what the ending looked like. When it came to Last Twilight, which is an original story, I think it's just a question of the writers getting too cutesy around an ending. Everybody wants to have an ending that gets people talking, and they fail at it because… sometimes you just need to end the story. Sometimes you just need to take the story through to its logical conclusion and do it well. 

We talked about that when we were talking about La Pluie, how good it was at doing that. La Pluie is not gonna light the world on fire in terms of novelty, but what it was was a solid story. I think that what happened when it came to Last Twilight, is that they didn't know how to end it. 

Ben 

I just would like to not always feel this way. It's not fun to watch shows falling apart narratively in real time. For all that we enjoyed Last Twilight through episode 9, and for all that we enjoyed parts of The Sign through maybe episode… 5ish? 

NiNi 

Oh bestie, I was done when they didn't fuck in Nong Khai. 

Ben 

We walk away from these shows in the end, feeling dispirited or kind of baffled or dismissive of them. And like, that's fine. But it also just sort of depresses the conversation around these pieces for me. How do we have interesting conversations about these things going forward? “Well, everybody was pretty and I enjoyed that.” Okay, but like, is that enough? For some, not for me. And it bums me out. When these shows are so fundamentally disappointing in the end, they don't inspire me to share them with other people. And a big part of what I want from BL is to have discerning viewers with taste connect to it, and to have other queer people connect to it, and it's really hard to do that when a significant portion of it doesn't satisfy the viewer at the end. Finishing strong is a really important part of telling a good and compelling story. 

NiNi 

I think that there definitely is something to the cumulative impact of these shows sort of falling apart one after the other, especially when you watch a lot of them. 

Ben 

This is fatiguing as viewers. It's not fun to anticipate every show you enjoy shitting the bed 60% of the way into it, and I would really like for that to not be a common experience going forward. 

NiNi 

Okay, and on that downer note [Ben and NiNi laugh] that is going to wrap us up on our Roses, Thorns, and Buds episode. I think our next episode is going to be a lot more fun. We're headed into some grab bags, ladies and theydies. So, look out for that next week. Until then, we out. Say bye to the people, Ben. 

Ben 

Peace. 

[jessicanjpa]

I forget which episode, but @threebooksoneplot once said it would be so amazing if we could take the best Life and Death lines but give them to the regular Twilight characters.

...I wonder if anyone has done it, or is thinking about doing it? Take the very best lines from Life and Death and sneak them into the original text in a new doc? Just think how very cool it would be to be reading Twilight and come across these gems:

(Carlisle's backstory)

"The vampire told his father that he was a fool and he would pay for the damage he had caused. The preacher threw himself in front of his son to protect him...

"I often wonder about that moment. If he hadn't revealed what he loved most, would all our stories have changed?"

Edward was thoughtful for a few seconds. And then he continued. "The vampire smiled. He told the preacher, 'Go to your hell knowing this—that what you love will become all that you hate.'

"He made sure that the preacher knew what would happen to Carlisle, and then he killed the preacher very slowly while Carlisle watched, writhing in pain and horror."

(in Edward's room for the first time)

"Um... Edward?"

I didn't see his attack—it was much too fast. I couldn't even understand what was happening. For half a second I was airborne and the room rolled around me, upside down and then right side up again. I didn't feel the landing, but suddenly I was on my back on the black couch and Edward was on top of me, his knees tight against my hips, his hands planted on either side of my head so that I couldn't move, and his bared teeth just inches from my face. He made another soft sound that was halfway between a growl and a purr.

"Wow," I breathed.

"You were saying?" he asked.

"Um, that you are a very, very terrifying monster?"

He grinned. "Much better."

"And that I am so completely in love with you."

His face went soft, his eyes wide, all the walls down again.

"Bella," he whispered.

(hotel in Phoenix, Alice talking)

"Jasper was the first thing I saw. I didn't meet him in person until much later."

Something about her tone made me wonder. "How long?"

"Twenty-eight years."

"Twenty-eight...? You had to wait Twenty-eight years? But couldn't you...?"

She nodded. "I could have found him earlier. I knew where he was. But he wasn't ready for me yet. If I'd come too early, he would have killed me."

I gasped and stared at Jasper. He raised an eyebrow at me, and I looked back at Alice. She laughed.

(ballet studio)

"Wait, wait," Edward said, his head snapping up. "She deserves a choice."

His lips were at my ear. I clamped my teeth against the moaning, straining to listen.

"Bella? I won't make this decision for you. I won't take this away from you. And I'll understand, I promise, Bella. If you don't want to live like this, I won't fight you. I'll respect what you want. I know it's a horrible choice. I would give you any other option if I could. I would die if I could give your life back to you." His voice broke. "But I can't make that trade. I can't do anything—except stop the pain. If that's what you want. You don't have to be this. I can let you go—if that's what you need." It sounded like he was sobbing again. "Tell me what you want, Bella. Anything."

"You," I spit through my teeth. "Just you."

"Are you sure?" he whispered.

I groaned. The fire was reaching its fingers into my chest. "Yes," I coughed out. "Just—let me stay—with you."

[thatpodcastkid]

Magnus Archives Relisten 5, MAG 5 Thrown Away

Trash apple teeth! Is this anything

Spoilers ahead!

Facts: Statement of Kieran Woodward, regarding items discovered in the refuse of 93 Lancaster Road, Walthamstow. Given February 23rd, 2009.

Statement Notes: There are so many posts out there comparing The Magnus Archives to the Twilight Zone because of Jon's narration and the serial creepy story format, but this episode really stands out in mind as Twilight Zone-esque. Like the Twilight Zone, some Magnus Archive episodes deal with things like childhood guilt and cult-behavior, like MAG 4. But other episodes just kind of say "Damn, isn't that fucked up? Anyway," like this one.

I do love Kieran as a character. He's just so weirdly chill and realistic about everything. There's are some statement givers who are still being tormented by the fears, some who cause fear, some who are reporting on things that happened to people they know, but there's also this interesting category of people who survived because they played the game right. When the audience says "don't go in the basement" or "call the cops," they listen. Woodward gets through this statement unscathed because he moves on from the creepy dolls heads and reports the teeth, then destroys the "gift" left for him and tries to move on. Alan can't let go, Alan doesn't know the rules of the genre, that's why he doesn't make it out.

My two new favorite characters in the series are "Matt, who was raised Catholic and never shut up about it," because he is me, and David who "broke the silence by vomiting loudly into a nearby drain," because he is the most realistic horror character of all time.

Entity Alignment: Whenever I think of this episode, I think of it as the "teeth in a bag" episode. I actually 100% forgot about the metal heart. Now, when you think of those things, it kind of sounds like a Flesh episode.

But, let's all remember our favorite bio majors and their special gift to their professor. The Stranger has a history with teeth. The description of the dolls heads is very "uncanny valley," which is the Stranger's real niche. The thing that really sells me though is Jon's last line in the statement, "All two thousand seven hundred and eighty of them were the exact same tooth." The exact same tooth, apparently from the exact same person, repeated over and over again to the point that the examiner can date them because of their differing stages of decay. You know what that sounds like to me? Someone has been practicing.

The metal heart also says Stranger to me. I know it has a little Flesh energy, but it really reminded me of the hospital episode from season 5. The way the character describes feeling like her body was not her own, that parts of her had been replaced, substituted. The metal heart as the only remanent of Alan feels like that same kind of fear. It's not his, it's not him, but it's all he's got.

Speaking of Alan, does his obsession with watching the house to the point he goes without sleep for days, isolates his friends, and is presumed dead remind you of anyone? He must be influenced by the Eye at least a little bit.

But ignoring entity alignment for a second, Jonny does consistently uses obsessive characters really well. There's a lot of horror media where, in real life, it would make more sense for the characters to give up on their investigations of the supernatural or to ignore it in entirely in the first place. The audience is usually (and rightfully) able to suspend reality for the sake of the story in these situations. But what's so interesting about Jonny's writing is that he explicitly states characters like Alan, like Amy Patel, like Jon, can't stop themselves. It's obsession, it's all consuming, they know it's bad for them, but they just can't stop. It really adds to the audience fear because you're not the only one telling them turn back, their mind is screaming it too, but they still won't listen.

Character Notes: The post-statement in this episode is just 90% Martin hate. Absolutely unhinged behavior. What if you worked at a restaurant at the end of receipts your boss just wrote "This waiter is a goddamn loser and I hate him." Wild man Jonathan Sims everybody.

[wen-kexing-apologist]

TOP FIVE HANDS MOMENTS IN 2023!!! 👐🏼

OH YOU KNOW MY LIST HERE IS EXHAUSTIVE (so thank you for being one of three people to ask so that I could do 15 hands instead of 5) [I put alt text for the first four shows and the last show the gifs are described in the text already so I didn't add it there]

Okay!

Last Twilight

gif by @singularities

I know you have not watched Last Twilight yet (and no pressure to though I would love your thoughts) but they are doing really wonderful things with touch in this show, and I know Aof made this show just for me with how many close ups of hands we get. They are doing a really incredible job with showing the different types of touches, what's standard/necessary touch like holding on to Mohk's elbow for guidance when walking, versus friendly touches like the hugs when they are fighting in the dinosaur outfits, to the more sexually charged moments like this one.

Moonlight Chicken

gif by @jimmysea

Again, there are many wonderful hand moments in Moonlight Chicken but probably my favorite one is the moment in the morning when Li Ming and Heart play their itsy bitsy spider game when Li Ming sleeps over. It's such an intimate little moment, and it's one of the few times that the focus on Li Ming and Heart's hands is not related to sign language. Also, it's a great example of something that Aof does in some of his shows when there are intimate moments/strong feelings where he changes how he shoots his scenes and does more of a close up without a steady cam and it is beautiful every time.

Love in Translation

gif by @my-rose-tinted-glasses

Megan. Megan. Megan. Listen. Megan. I mean...do I have to say anything about this one? Cause uh...holy shit.

Utsukushii Kare: Eternal

gif by @rayandgay

Shout out to Kiyoi for being so vocal about wanting to get dicked down honestly. Hira has put that boy through the wringer and he deserves to be manhandled... as a treat.

Our Dining Table

gifs by @laowen

It is a blink and you'll miss it moment, but the micro movements from Yutaka when he and Minoru shake/hold hands in Episode 8 when Minoru is trying to leave Yutaka drove me up a wall this year. In the first gif you can see Yutaka's thumb twitching almost like he wants to brush his thumb across Minoru's knuckles and then thinks better of it and pulls away, and in the second panel you can see Yutaka's hand linger in the center longer than Minoru's and then he moves his hand slightly upward like he's going to reach for Minoru's hand again before he decides better of it, and his fingers are twitching the entire time. It's incredible.

ASK ME MY TOP 5 OF ANYTHING BL 2023

[readinthedarkpod]

Come one, come all! Today we bring you the best of the best, from all across the land, to compete in the ultimate competition. Who will be crowned as the biggest, most pathetic, simp of all time? Listen to find out.

Our Challengers: Thomas Cresswell from Stalking Jack the Ripper by Kerri Maniscalco Vektal from Ice Planet Barbarian by Ruby Dixon Damianos of Akielos from The Captive Prince by C. S. Pacat Rhysand from the A Court of Thorns and Roses series by Sarah J. Maas Lorcan Salvaterre from the Throne of Glass series by Sarah J. Maas Edward Cullen from Twilight by Stephenie Meyer Oliver Marks from If We Were Villains by M. L. Rio Benjamin Evans from The Darkest Part of the Forest by Holly Black Cardan Greenbriar from The Folk of the Air by Holly Black Kaz Brekker from Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo Oak Greenbriar from The Stolen Heir by Holly Black Prince Corrick from the Defy the Night series by Brigid Kemmerer Matthias Helvar from Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo Hal Cavendish from Down Comes the Night by Allison Saft Nathaniel Thorn from A Sorcery of Thorns by Margaret Rogerson Jamie Westenberg from Two Wrongs Make a Right by Chloe Liese Follow the hosts at @figonas @adxmparriish @hazelsheartsworn @laequiem

Join our book club, WORNPAGELIBRARY!

Sign up for our newsletter to get teasers for the next episode, get the inside scoop, and much more!

[hongtiddiez]

last twilight e3 thoughts feelings etc

so in the past ive watched the episodes and digested them and come back and rewatched to put together my thoughts but im kinda crunched for time today and have a mountain of work to do sooo i'm just gonna do this in one sitting and i'm so sorry if it's not as good or as coherent as what i usually deliver aaa. it's also going to be a bit longer than normal probably but i'll try to cut down on stuff that seems unnecessary or maybe just too obvious to comment on.

OH ITS STILL REALLY LONG EVEN WITH EDITING I'M SO SORRY.

oh them being playful with each other is everything to me. oh my god and Mhok learned, he listened to Porjai and he learned to organize and clean and do things with Day as an active participant so he knows where everything is and is taking control of his own life. oh we're only 3 minutes in and i'm emotional, okay.

i do love that we get to see the way Day has isolated himself and that while his family haven't helped there's also a large part of it that is his doing. ive said it before but when you're newly disabled it can be so so easy to isolate yourself. hell, i've been diagnosed for almost 10 years and i still do it from time to time as my condition worsens because it's hard. there are so many questions you have to answer, there's the anxiety of not knowing if people are going to be accommodating to your needs, and sometimes it takes twice or even three times the energy it used to take before because every action is a little harder now. it can be terrifying to put yourself out there again and you will lose friends in the process. there will be people that don't understand, that find you to be an inconvenience, that won't make accommodations for you, and it will hurt every time but saying goodbye to those people is always ultimately for the better - but it doesn't make it hurt less. as much as i'd love the realism of it, i hope we don't have to see Day go through that.

Day's story about his friend is interesting, too. he says he doesn't want to be pitied by his friends but the thing is. they just did that, they accommodated their friend, and from the sound of it they did it without judgement. so why couldn't it be the same for him? it just shows more of his anxiety and his fear.

"i felt like my life was worthless. all i saw in people's eyes was insult."

screaming. crying. throwing up. i don't need to say anything about this but i thought you all should know it made me ill.

"once i'm ready you'll be the first to get my invitation card." Porjai and Mhok's friendship means so so fucking much to me.

here's the thing, my best friend and i dated in high school, we were 16 and fucking stupid and toxic and our home lives were shit and we took it out on each other and we made each other fucking miserable by the end of things. we didn't talk again for over five years. it took time to come back together, to heal and accept our own faults in what went wrong. we stumbled here and there as we came back together but now? almost 10 years later i don't know what i'd do without him. that's my platonic soulmate, that's the one person besides my husband i can share anything with. fuck, he knows more about my life than my husband does because he was there to see me at my worst, at the scariest point in my life where i almost wasn't around anymore to see tomorrow. that kind of friendship is so fucking special, i cannot even properly put it into words, and for Mhok to keep that? to have that with Porjai? i'm so fucking glad he has that. i'm so glad he got to keep his platonic soulmate.

small aside, i love that Mhok consistently announces himself to Day. it's a little action but it's so considerate. he's honestly doing such an incredible job.

Day puts his sunglasses on like armor; like they can shield him from the judging stares or looks of pity he can't see. maybe someday he won't need them, not because his heart has hardened to take the blows, but maybe because he knows Mhok is by his side. because remember - it's the way they look at us.

"i heard you wanted to take time off and focus on badminton" Night i'm going to drown you in your own toilet. this is just furthering my thoughts from episode 2 that Night is ashamed of his brother and his condition, or perhaps that the family is trying to hide his condition for some fucking stupid reason.

the bravery it took Day to come here and admit whats happening to his is huge, but i'm also in love with the admissions admin saying sure, you can have time off, but you're not allowed to quit. you're not allowed to give up on yourself.

"we must live with hope, Day" and that's it. you have to. you just have to. every day is going to be so hard and so much, you'll have good and bad days, but at least in all those days you'll have hope. and maybe someday that hope won't be for new eyes. maybe that hope will turn into acceptance, into determination, into pride at what you've accomplished in spite of it all. in my opinion, hope is an amazing fuel but it's not sustainable, it's just a vehicle to get you to where you need to be.

Mhok asking a blind man for a tour, oh fuck fuck fuckfuckufkcufk-- Mhok essentially saying show me your world exactly as you remember it, let me in. see how things have changed and how they've remained the same and do it with me by your side.

THE WAY MHOK SHIELDS HIM AT THE LIBRARY. DAY DOESN'T NEED TO WEAR HIS SUNGLASSES LIKE ARMOR BECAUSE MHOK IS BY HIS SIDE AS HIS SHIELD. chewing my own arm off brb.

"and you also have me. nothing to be afraid of" because i will always shield you, i will always protect you, i will stand by your side AAAA--

on part 3/4 now, i promise i'll shut the fuck up soon. if you've read this far pls take this as a smooch checkpoint, i'm giving you a little forehead smooch. have you had any water today? taken your meds? relax your shoulders, unclench your jaw.

ok back to it - Mhok continuously having Day make his own selections in these various machines. Day's fate is in his hands, he can do these things himself, but Mhok will be there with him the whole way.

"my eyes don't work well but my legs do just fine." this is such a massive leap from the man that wouldn't even leave his bedroom, from the man that was suffocating in his environment. Day is no longer a dying man, a shambling corpse. he is an active participant in his own life again.

"stay close to me, that's all i need" bitch i'm gonna throw up, you can't just hit me with that after that's all i've been saying this whole time what the fuck.

OH FUCK ME. okay. alright. hang on. so when they enter the shop Mhok describes it to Day, explains where the jeans are, where the shirts are, asks him what to do and what he wants to take a look at. this is a direct antithesis of Night in episode 1 asking where Day was going to wait for him, where he could leave him so he could get his shit done. Day isn't being asked to wait, to just sit idle while life passes him by, he's being asked what he wants to do, where he wants to go, what he wants to see. FUUUUUCK. and knowing Mhok is doing this because Day expressed that he liked dressing nicely? how the fuck am i supposed to just go to my job like a normal person after this episode.

wow the shirt buttoning scene just made me so mentally ill. right now, Mhok is doing his job. he's helping Day get dressed. but someday? someday this could be Mhok dressing Day not because he needs him to help but simply because Mhok likes doing to for Day. there's the sensuality of caring for your partner, of running your hands over the planes of their shoulders, of skimming your fingers down their chest to pluck every button. it's an exploration and a declaration of love. if we get this again in a future scene and it's something like that please remember me fondly because i will perish.

at the bookstore Mhok recognizing Day doesn't want to wait, but Day has become so accustomed to the other people in his life telling him what to do that he falls back into that behavior - but Mhok doesn't let him. he prioritizes Day's needs and desires, even if it's something as little as finding a book, without being asked.

THE LAST PAGE IS MISSING.

(because one can't see his future and the other can't see in the future, but also because they'll make their own ending, they'll face that when they get there, but they'll do it together -- what if i lost my shit completely of it?)

when Mhok leaves Day to get him a drink the camera is focused on Day and the clear warring emotions on his face but if you look in the background Mhok hesitates, he stops and turns a few times to look at day. he's reluctant to leave him and worried. Mhok worries so much but it's always so understated or in the background, covered by the emotions of others he values above himself. (or overlooked because of 'what type of person he is')

while its anxiety inducing i do enjoy this regression of behavior because adapting to a new life is hard. you will regress, you will stumble, you will fall into old habits or sometimes old fears will return. its what you do after that that is important. the one thing i hope doesn't happen is i hope this doesn't cause a rift with Porjai. i think Mhok needs her right now, maybe not forever, but definitely right now.

HE PUT ON THE FUCKING SHIRT. THE FUCKING SHIRT DAY COULD SEE FROM MARS. OH MY GOD. i know this doesn't need to be commented on, i know it's obvious, but FUUUUCK.

Day's mom trying to weaponize Mhok's past and Mhok taking the ammunition from her hands and telling Day himself. the acceptance of the past and the determination to move on and grow from it. Day's refusal to let the past repeat itself with a new caretaker. whoo boy.

and again Day wants to see Mhok, because even bruised and battered Mhok is worth seeing.

if the last episode ends with "sweet dreams/good night" i will be burying myself alive, thanks.

THE PINK SHIRT RUINING HIS BAD BOY IMAGE BECAUSE IT IS BEING RUINED. HE'S MOVING ON, HE'S GROWING, HE'S BECOMING A NEW PERSON. FUCK OFF.

i'm so so sorry this was so long, every episode makes me feel more and more things and makes me analyze shit more and more.

tagging @benkaaoi and @callipigio as requested (if you want to be added to my last twilight meta tag list just let me know!)