#loki series discourse

[bebx]

“this ship is not canon” babe, they’re fictional characters. they’re not real. they’re literally dolls we play with. we don’t care about whether or not these fictional characters’ love story is canon in this piece of media that is also entirely based on fiction. I mean, sure, canon would be lovely, but it’s a bonus. it’s not necessary. what we care about is the fun of talking about these 2 idiots being in love.

we don’t give a fuck if they didn’t kiss in “canon”. they had raw sex in thousands of fics about them though. and I’d say that’s more than enough to make people who ship them happily ship them even harder. happy shipping!

[sufferthesea]

if i wanted to watch tom hiddleston play an emotionally damaged, traumatized man with black hair who was neglected by his parents and has an incestuous relationship with a woman while also being attracted to a quirky blonde, i’d watch crimson peak

[naturestheway22]

Watching Marvel Entertainment’s Loki Season 2 (2023) starring Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson

[shegeekery]

This shouldn’t have to be said, but trying to shame other fans for enjoying and interacting with media in a different way than you do says far more about you than it does about them. Personally, I block accounts that I see engaging in that kind of nonsense.

Fandom is supposed to be fun. Acting like your personal take is a Universal Truth and anyone who disagrees must have something wrong with them detracts from others’ enjoyment and should have no place in fandom.

ETA: Accusing other fans of “projecting” onto characters shows hypocrisy and a serious lack of self-awareness on your part. You’re projecting onto these characters too. That’s what fictional characters are for, FFS! How do people not understand this?

[sneezinbird-new]

i actually fucking live that like half of this hellsite was mad at marvel for queerbaiting lokius and now sega literally doing it all the time with sonadow and the fans are like “yeah i’m not complaining we weren’t fed with these two for a while now”

it’s just so freaking funny to me

[tiny-minecraft-rabbit]

Guyss,, Hermitcraft is not the life series,, why do I keep seeing "Hermitcraft au!" or "thoughts about Hermitcraft" That includes Jimmy and Lizzie and BigB as main characters and never ever mentions Cub or Wels or XB or Doc

[jimintomystery]

Wow

On Monday, Marvel put out a new Loki trailer, previewing the final two episodes of the season. The trailer briefly shows Mobius living out a normal life, presumably as he did before he was recruited into the Time Variance Authority.

Since then the Loki fandom, famed for its carefully considered reactions, has gone from debating whether Mobius is married/divorced/widowed to wondering if Mobius is secretly Thor. (Or Balder.) This is all based on approximately three seconds in a trailer for two episodes.

Apparently word got around that Mobius's real name is "Don," which could make him Don Blake. In the comics, Don Blake was the human alter ego of Thor. (Or Balder, in the other comics. This is confusing.) I have absolutely no idea how anyone decided Mobius is named "Don" in the first place. It's the same kind of logic that gave us "Someone said 'the devil' in WandaVision, so Mephisto is the next Thanos."

At issue here is, as usual, Lokius. If Mobius has a family life outside the TVA, you see, then he might not be willing or able to consummate his fanon romance with Loki. Or, if he's somehow a variant of Loki's adoptive brother, it would get real awkward for Lokius shippers who have insisted that it's wrong to pair Loki up with Sylvie because they ought to have more of a sibling dynamic. (Loki, who once fucked a horse, could not be reached for comment.)

Anyway, the next episode of Loki drops later tonight, and there's doom and gloom in the fandom about the possibility that Lokius has been Thorki all along. I've already seen someone denounce this "twist" as homophobia and queerbaiting. Because, you see, Disney deliberately designed this show to get fans to infer an mlm relationship, and now Disney is going to dick around with said relationship just to spite those fans, which wouldn't increase their profits by one cent, but for some reason they're bound and determined to do it anyway? I need to lie down.

[alyceinwonderland777]

Unpopular opinion:

If Loki was a cisgender character I wouldn't give a fuck about the sylki ship. I would not have been a sylki shipper and I would have thought that it's weird, but at the same time I would have been neutral. I dislike it mainly because it harms the genderfluid community and also because the dynamic between Loki and Sylvie is toxic, but again, if Loki was cis and the dynamic was healthy I wouldn't give a fuck.

Selfcest is weird, but in this case I don't think that it makes sense to compare it to incest since Loki and Sylvie come from 2 different universes. I believe that selfcest can only be considered incest if it involves dating / having sex with a clone since, genetically speaking, a clone is like a sibling.

Again, I hate it because it harms the genderfluid community and because the dynamic is toxic, but if this wasn't the case I wouldn't give a fuck about it.

[alwida10]

I appreciate your words. Thank you. I guess working in science has taught me to word stuff in a way that can be confusing online, where people aren’t used to the overly complicated style that is used to avoid claims that are *technically* incorrect, even though the message is correct and clear.

Not sure if you’re aware of the context, too. These messages are all sparked by the shipping war around the Loki series, and all sides in that have some black sheep who thinks bullying real people because they don’t share your love for a certain pairing would be ok. Since that has caused a whole series of anon hate messages (including suicidal baits) I’m not in the mood of giving anyone who doesn’t have the backbone to add their name to the message the benefit of the doubt.

If I had to guess who believed in reverse racism and heterophobia I would 100% guessed it would be the sylvie/ loki shipper so this whole thing has taken me out

Are you telling me you were unable to understand that “I believe that single individuals might at times be getting a disadvantage because they are white, but there is certainly no disadvantage for white people in general” is simply a more complex way to say no than “there is no discrimination against white people on a scale that would matter”?

Or are you saying that you think Sylki-shippers generally believe in reverse racism and heterophobia?

I surely hope the first is the case because that would only mean you’ve terrible reading comprehension, and not that you consider all sylki-shippers to be *that* kind of people. I might not like the ship but I’m aware there are many considerate fans among them who simply want to enjoy the media and their fandom experience.

But I guess each fandom has their black sheep who get off on sending anon hate.

[hopelessfandomfreak]

the thing about sylki that bothers me the most is that if sylvie were male, way more people would be up in arms about a romance between loki and his variant. if it were a mlm relationship, people would hate it because “it’s weird, they’re the same person!” or “it’s self-cest, it’s gross.”

but guess what? just because sylvie is female doesn’t mean those arguments don’t apply. I guarantee that the only reason some people support the ship (especially casual fans) is because it’s between a man and a woman, which is frankly disgusting and irritating.

[brsb4hls]

Right nobody will care, but it's important to me.

In order to get decent representation in media there needs to be a serious discourse.

This also refers to openly adressing and criticizing queerbaiting.

If you claim 'queerbaiting' every time two men get along with each other, you're effectivly killing the discourse.

It will have the 'cry wolf' effect and will not be taken seriously anymore.

There's obviously no point in sharing interviews that contradict the 'baiting', since nobody cares. I tried.

It's also useless to argue perception, you can't argue perception.

So lets try logic as a last resort:

From what I've seen Lokius hardly exists outside of tumblr. Some may ship it on twitter (daily lokius has like 4000 followers and there might he overlap with the tumblr croud), there's the occasional facebook comment, idk about TikTok.

On tumblr, how big is the fandom? The most popular posts I've seen have like 5000 notes.

So lets be generous and estimate 8000 people in total. (Edit: been informed it's 11000, still not a blip)

That's not even a blip in ratings.

It absolutely does not matter in any capacity.

Now why would the Loki show go through the trouble of creating subtle queer subtext for a handful of people who wont make them money?

Can't be positive reception, because the press focusses on the clever time travel stuff, easter eggs, cinematography, effects, what have you. There's enough positivity.

There is absolutely no reason.

And if you argue that queer shows are getting more popular: yes, thankfully they are, but if you look at the tv stats from just today, ofmd is ranked 67 in popularity, Loki is ranked 9.

Even if those stats weren't reliable, the bitter truth is that Loki does not need the Lokius shipping subset of queer fans (subset because there are enough queer Loki fans who watch anyways).

So tl;dr: By all means, celebrate your ship, that's what it's for. But get off the queerbaiting train please. That's so not what's happening here and it messes up discourse.

(Otoh I gotta admit if 8000 people complain about being baited next friday, it probs also wont matter. But it is so exhausting, you have no idea)

[teh-nos]

unrelated post on the dash causes mind to make connection that previously eluded me:

when people got really mad about mobius calling loki a narcissist was that... were they taking that as a diagnosis being made? as in like NPD, the mental health condition?

because i... i just thought it was about that greek mythology guy. who fancied himself. and that was it. it did not occur to me that it might be anything else.

okay now the level of anger about it makes a bit more sense to me. i didn't know people were reading that into it.

[alwida10]

You’re referring to the events in the show, right? I had assumed that would be about TVA!Loki (so the variant the series follows, after the avengers caused him to deviate from his timeline) then and not about MCU!Loki. 😅

you’re absolute entitled to treating the two of them as the same, of course. I just assumed your analysis referred to the Loki that appeared in the movies up to infinity war. Thank you for the elaboration!

[neyafromfrance95]

"fandom creates predominately m/m content bc men are written better than the female characters are."

i hate this argument.

it would be so much better to simply admit that you like fiction about cis men than to pretend like the female characters are still being written in an inferior way when it comes to the contemporary media.

take yellowjackets for example. it would be difficult to find characters that are as complex and well-written as the fem mains of yellowjackets, with dynamics amongst themselves that are as compelling and substantial and with homoerotic subtext. yet i assure you that yellowjackets would have had twice as many fics on ao3 had the story been about cis men, even if it wasn't half as good.

you can't convince me that the male characters of the mcu are written in a much better way than the female characters of the mcu are either.

and as much as some people claim the fanfiction to be an excellent way to explore sexual and gender identities or to challenge social norms, the vast majority of fanfiction simply depicts heteronormative dynamics between two cis men.

[nerdby]

If Loki knowing about the Infinity Stones in the television series has been tripping you up, please go back and rewatch the first Avengers movie--

In the first Avengers film, Loki had two Infinity Stones in his possession while battling the Avengers. One of them is the space stone which was encased in the tesseract and the other was the mind stone which was encased in Loki's staff. The mind stone was given to Loki by Thanos because Thanos knew it would aid him in making Loki betray Thor and try to take over Earth. This is because the mind stone acting as a drug that would allow Thanos to control Loki's thoughts and actions.

Because, like it or not, Loki is not stronger than an Infinity Stone.

So if you're confused about how TVA!Loki knows about the Infinity Stones, the answer is simple--

Thanos told Loki about the Infinity Stone in his staff and about the other Stones in the first Avengers movie, but also failed to mention the effect the stone would have on Loki himself. So TVA!Loki would NOT have needed to live through the events of any of the post-2012 MCU films to know of the Stones' existence.

[bereft-of-frogs]

it is so deeply funny to come from any fandom and any ship discourse to the what we do in the shadows season 5 episode 3 midcredit scene. Other fandoms are out there are tearing themselves apart and that’s what wwdits canon is like 😂 I’m weeping. This is so funny.