#macaque redemption arc

[ep2nd]

What do you think about Macaque's 'redemption arc'?

Oooo, spicy topic

Alright, remember personal thoughts and not like a writing teacher here

So, I'll probably will also reference other redemption arcs so I'll try best to explain (Warning for Ninjago and Trollhunters, also Crystalized mentioned sorry yall I know it's a wound)

1. I like how Macaque didn't immediately go to the goodside, mostly. After s3 special, he kinda just disappeared, minding his own business. He didn't go out of his way to talk to Mk, Wukong, or the gang, which makes sense considering all he's done to them and what Wukongs done to him

2. I want to say Macaque helped MK go in the scroll because mostly to help MK, he saw how rough MK was going through, from a new form to how much pressure was on him, so he probably wanted to at least help him through yet another trial. Macaque maybe had some want to help Wukong, as stated by Peng later, kinda, that Macaque still cared about Wukong

3. Alright let's get this out right here right now. He did intact hurt and possibly traumatized Mk and the gang. He made Pigys, Tang, and Mei fight MK (though in shadow form however much they were in control there). He threatened to kill Sandy and Mei, and he was willing to put everyone in danger, even maybe killing Mei (yet again) to forge the Samadhi fire and be free from LBD grasp. Now it's also implied that Macaque follows his own path and needs, putting himself first now. He followed Wukong and put the Brotherhoods and Wukongs ambitions before his own, and look where that got him? But for the series to NEVER TRULY MENTION SEASON 1-3 VILLAIN MACAQUE AFTERWORDS?! Like Mei and Macaque seemed to get along really well considering what happened. I feel like the gang should've held more distrust him more than just out right accepting him like MK. Even Pigsy, who didn't trust Wukong based on his stunts, show much annoyance for Macaque helping MK and them. Also, he never once apologizes to MK, sure helps him, but after hurting him several times? Doesn't exactly equal out.

4. Now Macaques death is a hot topic and the Fandom is ready to kill, steal, and borrow (sorry Hamilton reference) over it. In JTTW, he impersonated Wukong, hurt Tripitaka, was going to replace the Pilgrims, then kinda cuased problems for everyone from the Underworld to Heaven. In LMK and JTTW we know definitely that Wukong killed him, probably against his will, and Macaques mad at him for it. NOW. NEITHER APOLOGISE EVER. Hinted in Season 5, Wukong feels horrible, hates the memory, actually cried recalling it. And even Macaques knows what memory's he was seeing without actually seeing it (maybe that's theory). AND THEY JUST LEAVE IT THERE. NO SORRY NO WE WERE BOTH WRONG NO WE SHOULD HAVE TAKLED IT OUT NO NOTHING. I hope the writers get these two to talk about it cuase well, it's kinda both their fualts, Macaque started it and pushed Wukongs limits, Wulong acted out of anger and defense.

5. Macaque telling Wukong "He needs to do better" when in fact Macaque hasn't himself, the hypocrite. Macaque worries for MK, that's nice, but he himself hasn't "Done better" his redemption arc isn't that far in where we've seen much change. Sure he fought the Brotherhood, but Macaque didn't generally like them and the world was in danger so. Like I know this season focused more on Wukong and MKs relationship and how Wukong will always be there and to reflect season 2/3 where he left MK alone but this time he's there... but like Macaque... you've barely been in this kids life since s3, LIKE TGOSE TWO STILL NEEED CHARACTER GROWTH

6. For anyone who's wat he'd Trollhunters and Ninjago, yall shall understand. In Trollhunters, characters like Nomora and Principal Strickler started out as villains/antagonistic forces then had redemption arcs. Nomorua was a minor character so eh. Anyway PRINCIPAL STRICKLER. Hurt Jim (main character) by actually trying to kill him, by pretending to be his friend, putting his friends in harms way, working under the main antagonist like a henchman, literally tied his soul to his mom's so Jim couldn't kill him, qnd bunch of other stuff. Now it's been awhile since I've seen the show, but Jim slowly convinces Strickler to turn, now does he automatically trust him and their relationship is great? No, it takes time and Strickler has to work to improve, and he apologizes and admits he was wrong. Their relationship isn't the best until much later. They had character development, Strickler saw his wrong ways and apologized, didn't become perfectly best friends with Jim or his friends much later, and his mistakes were brought up later on. This isn't with Macaque, he had more of a Harumi redemption arcs (for my Ninjago fans the Crystalized one I know yall hate it I do apologize). Now Macaques redemption arc is much better than hers, it has reason, it has a point, he tries to be better, ut like it It was kinda rushed, didn't have enought character development where they talk their problems out, they weren't shown enough that they were in the wrong and need to apologize(considering Harumi working for the Overlord). So like an in-between.

Sorry for long post, there's probably more but I'm not one to analyze characters like their a new bacteria needing to put under microscope and handled with care like their precious glass (No offense to the people who do deep dives I love you all and love reading your stuff helps me so much<3)

SO IN CONCLUSION

Macaque's redemption was good, maybe too rushed, could've used more screen time with other characters, needs to apologize and bring up past mistakes, and needs more improvement in future seasons

It has potential and and can still be great, writers I have hope.

[then-be-a-warrior]

Omg imagine

Macaque and Redson

vs

Apeshit Mk

Think about it we have two villains who turned hero because of this one kid and NOW this kid is going from hero to villain/antagonist.

Honestly the only time Macaque and Redson have been in the same vicinity was when they were coming up with a plan to defeat LBD. And then the last shot of season 5 with the fireworks.

I just want a moment where they're fighting him together or something. And maybe, during the fight, there's some callbacks to when their roles were reversed. Like:

Mk saying "Who's the PEASANT now?!" to Redson

Macaque telling MK "You keep playing at being this bad guy but I know deep, deep down....you're not that guy."

Put me in the writer's room I'm BEGGING.

@alilcherrysramblings @madmandude @autism-autobot @cherllyio @imjusthereforthecake @captainnemis @sweetsugarcoffee @marokra @will-of-the-wisps @electricpirateduck

[weaverpop]

In ancient and even modern China, white is the color of mourning, especially for family/spouses.

Trigger warning for angst and mentions of death

(Potential route)

The celestial guards wear yellow. Nezha wears pink. The Jade emperor wears green. Li Jing wears white.

Lady Yin is the reincarnation of the Jade emperors second daughter. She was also Li Jing’s wife for a very long time. She was one of his closest confidants, his best friend, and the mother of his children. It’s not something you just… let go of. So when the Jade Emperor enstates a mourning period for her post-death… Jing doesn’t protest.

But eventually, you have to move on. Centuries pass. Nezha, his brothers, the Jade family, everyone has stopped wearing white. Time has loved on.

But when Jing tries to do it… he is properly pulled aside by the Jade emperor and calmly informed that the mourning period for him as a Widower as not needed. This confuses him, but Jing chalks it up to celestial time differences.

But Centuries pass. Everytime Jing attempts to wear another color then white, he is rebuffed/criticized. Once, he had attempted to wear something black to keep warm on a cold day, and the Jade emperor emperor blew his casket.

Li Jing only brought up the prospects of re-marrying once in the company of an advisor. It was off handed, but when the advisor mentioned it to the emperor…

Li Jing was… informed that it would not be happening. As his wife had (technically) been a celestial princess, it would be inappropriate for him to remarry. That’s when Jing realizes that he would likely never have another intimate relationship like Yin again, married or not. If marriage was enough to set the JE off, then pre-marital intimacy was absolutely off the table.

And for a very long time, Jing adheres to that. He does not want to incur the JE’s wrath again. But… then he meets Azure, and suddenly everything goes ona. Tightrope. And during the peak of the war, when he finally breaks the rules… he has to be very careful.

But now the JE is dead, Azure is back, and Nezha is in charge. The world has nearly fallen apart, and held together only by a thread. It really put some things into perspective, and the conclusion Li Jing came too was… he was done.

He was done mourning for the wife and friend that’s been dead for thousands of years. He’s done being alone. He’s done following the rules. And It’s not overnight, He’s got a while to go. But the first thing Li Jing does to start?

He stops wearing white.

(This is maybe an excuse to change up Jing’s wardrobe going forward.)

[kiwisandpearls]

There’s this post on redemption arcs I like that was about how it seems like some people don’t actually want a redemption, they just want the redeemed character to be beat over the head with how much of a bad person they previously were, and I feel the same way with how some people macaque’s ‘redemption’ arc (I don’t even personally see it as a redemption arc, I just see it as a ‘Macaque became less of a jackass’ arc)

because on one hand, he most certainly should have faced some consequences for most definitely at least somewhat destroying the Dragon Palace of the East Sea, being the main reason Mei struggled with the Samadhi Fire, beating the living crap out of MK and his friends multiple times, tormenting MK, and working with LBD.

but on the other hand, that’s not all there is to a redemption arc, not only should the redeemed character receive consequences for the things they’ve done, they should also willingly do better and not return to the person they once were. And Macaque does that.

macaque could have easily just refused to help MK and the others with their fight against LBD but he didn’t even after MK gave him that pep talk, he could have easily just not fought a possessed Wukong even when he knew he was most likely going to get his shit rocked, he could have easily just not caught Bai He when she was about to fall face first into the ground, he could have easily ditched everyone during the final attack against LBD, he could have easily not join the fight against his old friends during season four, he could have just run away again like he always had when confronted by Li Jing and not helped MK and Wukong get away. He could have just not used his powers to try and stop MK from sacrificing himself and helping Wukong in stopping MK.

there’s a few more I could mention but I’ve think I’ve said enough. Macaque should have faced consequences for the things he’s done, yes. But that doesn’t ignore how he’s clearly changed. He clearly wants to be better, he wants Wukong to do better for MK, after all Wukong is his mentor, he is not.

His redemption arc could have absolutely been written better (personally, I’d have Mei and MK be at least a little apprehensive with him since he’s been tormenting MK since like around season two and he was the reason Mei had to deal with the Samadhi Fire). But him being redeemed does not he needs to be (metaphorically) beat over the head because of how much bad he’s done and does not mean he and the narrative have to constantly wallow in how much of a bad person he used to be.

[coffeeisfortheresponsible]

cinder is so dog coded send tweet

[cosmicredcadet]

The redemption arcs in monkie kid r so lazy and it's so frustrating because they have so much potential to explore complex redemptions but instead they are just "these guys are friends now" with no deeper look into how that happened other than a completely new personality puppeteering what used to be a good and interesting character.

[falsementor]

Cystal seems like she's more...?? idk, just more. In general.

[elirastudio]

Guys I made this in like 30 minutes cuz I got hit with a truck of inspiration but I really have too much work to even think of dedicating to something else-

But here in honor of macaque redemption arc!!

👉🏻👈🏻 I really want to finish this…

[madabapf]

Helloo :s

Could u give us a bit of insight on Macaque’s and Wukong’s perspectives on how they feel about eachother respectively?

We know that Wukong thinks he’s not allowed to have feelings for Macaque; and Macaque seems to be okay with having feelings and even being with Wukong romantically(?) again.

But I’m very curious as to the why. Usually you see WK be the more forgiving one, and Macaque to be the one who is still hung up on being betrayed. I’d love to know more details about their feelings and thoughts on the matter and their relationship in your au c:

i don't think macaque has forgiven wukong yet, but at the same time he's always given me the vibe that he's a bit uh... obsessed(?) with wukong

while wukong tried to move on, learn, reflect on himself and grow emotionally, macaque was out for revenge

and if the only way to get a person off your mind is to hunt them down and try to kill them even though you know they're basically immortal in every way... well let's just say i think he never really got over them separating... which is why, when the opportunity is given, i think he'd be more willing to jump in and get back to how it was before, even when he himself is not ready yet (be that ready to forgive or ready in a sense that he just started his redemption arc and still has a lot of stuff to figure out about himself after being dead, manipulated and out for revenge for the past centuries)

i've been trying to figure out a backstory for them, also explaining this obsession a bit, but i still haven't fully decided on anything really-

but something along the lines of events happening that lead to wukong being the only person macaque can trust for a long while, which of course isn't healthy; to put all your social dependence on one person alone (who then also happens to be absent for long periods of time)

which is also why it's so important for macaque to learn to trust people again and generally just build some healthy relationships outside of wukong

this whole obsessiveness/dependence is also a reason why wukong is hesitant besides the other reasons i have already talked about a lot

ty for this ask, very interesting question! also finally forcing me to try to put stuff into words instead of just letting the vibes float in my head lmao i should probably do this more often but ehhh-

i hope my rambling wasn't too confusing tho- english hard words hard feelings hard

a

[angryvampire]

SPOILERS FOR LMK SEASON FIVE!! (Ep 2)

His smug ass face, lmao

He's like "Yeah, i did that. Fun times" 🤣

The kings: "you erased your name from the book of the dead, it is only but one of your various crimes"

Wukong: "And I'd do it again your honor 😘"

Also- MACAQUE SACRIFICING HIMSELF FOR THEM??? Alright, now you're starting to convince me you deserve your redemption arc (still has to appologise for beating up MK though)

[angstandhappiness]

Interesting to consider!

so i was rewatching the first season of lego monkie kid and i saw this scene again

So I came up with a theory /headcanon (maybe the future au) what if rumble and savage aren't normal clones, what if they're not even clones, and what if they're a mix of monkey clones and sun wukong's powers that mk stole,

What are my reasons for thinking that might be the case

To start with savage's face and rumble looks like a mix of Monkey King and macaque

If rumble and savage appear there's no way they're macaque clones (if that's what they are) we've already seen what macaque clones look like.

creating rumble and savage with the help of lady bone demon or she could have made them, to create perfect soldiers for their plans.

Except that they were nothing as they had planned them to be, at first they acted like nothing more than normal clones who were obedient and servile, the problems started when they began to develop their own personalities they began to hate being called clones or weapons and called themselves their own person. They even developed a fascination with the Monkey King. It all culminated in their confinement when macaco caught them trying to escape.

Rumble and savage will appear perhaps in season 7 as antagonists.

I thought it would be great that when everything goes well for macaque starts wanting to be a good person. The twins seem to remind him of the mistakes of his past,

Macaque tries to get rid of the twins peacefully, secretly not wanting to face the fact that they are people and thing worse. The children he create just to be used as weapons

But at some point he has no other way to face his mistakes and understand he was wrong to try to be a better person.

Gain his redemption.

[nekohime19]

The "problem" with Macaque's redemption arc

So I want to talk about something that is slightly bothering me regarding Macaque's redemption arc and see if others agree with me on those points. I genuinely like Macaque's redemption arc (you are free to disagree with me on that) and I indeed think it's not over yet and we will see more of it.

I really like how LMK handles Macaque's character in the first three seasons, and especially how they add depth to him in season 3. But I have a bit of a problem with season 4 and 5 and it is the lack of interactions between Macaque and the other members of the main cast.

In my opinion, when it comes to MK and Wukong, Macaque's redemption arc work well. We especially see how MK see Macaque as more than a common villain in season 2, how he offer a helping hand after realizing why he works with LBD in season 3, and how they work together in season 4. Same with Wukong, I think it's well built and their tentative allyship/réconciliation in season 5 makes sense.

BUT when it comes to other characters (Pigsy, Mei, Tang, Sandy) the interactions are... lacking.

I think, Pigsy, after seeing that Macaque hangs around MK in season 4, should come forward and have a confrontation with Macaque. Especially with how protective Pigsy is.

Mei should have a confrontation about the whole samadhi fire debacle. The two characters fight together in season 4 and there is no words exchanged regarding that incident.

Tang, who had a whole episode with Macaque in season 3 and is in a position to emphasize with him on certain points (being "benched" / left out) should, at least, try to have a conversation with Macaque.

Sandy, with his history of anger issues, could also have very interesting interactions with Macaque.

In my opinion, one of the reasons why his redemption can sometimes feel "rushed" or "plastic" is because he doesn't truly have any interactions with the rest of the group despite having serious issues that he needs to solve with some of them (Mei and the samadhi fire incident/ Pigsy and his protectiveness over MK / Tang and everything that happened in the "benched" episode...). So this feels as if those issues that Macaque has with the group are brushed aside in favor of Macaque's interactions with MK and Wukong.

Don't get me wrong, I love MK, but I think the show would gain more by shifting the focus from MK and highlighting the interactions between its side characters a bit more.

We have a lot of interactions between side characters when it comes to specific duo : Tang/Pigsy often interact with each other and share episodes, same with Mei/MK (or recently Mei/Red Son)... But we don't have a lot of interactions between, let's say, Mei/Pigsy or Tang/Sandy.

I like the MK/Sandy episode in season 5 very much because I don't see those two interact one-on-one very often and it was a nice change of pace. I kinda want to see more of that, I think a Mei/Pigsy episode would be so funny or even a Pigsy/Macaque episode. So many potential and interesting dynamics.

Besides MK and Wukong, Macaque has no true interactions with the rest of the group. And I get that Macaque is a reserved person, but I feel like those interactions (Mei/Macaque, Pigsy/Macaque, Sandy/Macaque...) needs to happen to make his redemption feels more genuine. In fact, I think the main cast needs to have a lot more interactions for them to feel more compact. Sometimes, it feels like the main cast itself is divided in specific duos (or trios) and characters don't interact with each other that much outside of that.

That being said, I'm waiting for season 6. I feel like Macaque character will be more central in season 6 considering how his powers were linked to the chaos at the end of season 5. I'm hoping that by being central to the season he will have more interactions outside of MK and Wukong and we'll get to see a resolution of his redemption arc! Of course I also hope both monkeys will come to terms with their fight and becomes sort of friends again. Crossing my fingers on that 🤞.

[estellardreams]

[Demon King Red belongs to @purble-turble] (Once again I will lore dump)

Considering the circumstances of the Charcoal Bone King AU, it's MK and Macaque who got it the worst.

MK was swiftly recaptured by a sudden and direct attack by the king himself, and with LBD's new powers combined with King Red's extreme drive and obsessive, no one was prepared. But they did try to stop him.

... Nearly getting frozen to death and the noodle shop decimated in the aftermath did not sit well with anyone. And with the ice and fires rapidly spreading, they were forced to abandon Megapolis and flee.

The ice prison MK got locked in was so frigid that he lost feeling in his hands, feet, and face rapidly, constantly shivering in the cold. With the circlet and new ice cuffs/boots, he was practically trapped in the room unless CBK released him momentarily to bond with him.

Meanwhile Macaque has been consistently losing power due to CBK needing to get stronger, taking away chunks of his energy (therefore dropping his glamour) and using it for his own benefit. Not to mention LBD's ice taking over half of his body, icing over half of his face, one side of his six ears, arm, leg, and small shards on his hip. He's also freezing cold, which isn't doing well on top of his burn marks from CBK lashing out at him.

Surprisingly for these two, Macaque was actually the one to use the last of his strength to teleport himself and MK out of the fortress, moving as far as he possibly could through the shadows. He promptly collapsed right on top of Flower Fruit Mountain... Where the Monkie Kids were temporarily hiding out.

Everyone was genuinely so relieved to have MK back, but the poor boy needed so many blankets, hot food, and a fireplace. He couldn't stop shivering until two weeks after his rescue, that's how cold he was.

Macaque eventually got the ice broken off of him as well, knowing full well how much trouble he was probably in with everyone else. Though, it was MK who stepped in and tried to get everyone to help Macaque due to him rescuing MK, and knowing full well that Macaque probably suffered way worse than him at the hands of CBK.

Cue a potential Macaque redemption arc-

... Okay but on the topic of the samadhi fire what if this got combined with a Samadhi Fire Wukong AU/concept? There should be more of those. And it would be super interesting to watch play out, especially considering Red isn't there to teach him (for obvious reasons) meaning MEI is the one who steps in to tutor him on his new fire.

MK eventually asks to get blasted by the samadhi fire to keep warm but we don't talk about that /j

[aromacaque]

I have a question for you: Do you think the narrative treats wukong and macaque unfairly when it comes to Consequence or their actions ?,like mistakes they make in the series story,how characters treat them,like how wukong got called for the samdhi fire and not macaque that hurt Mei and tang,when he forced tang to Release it.

TLDR: No.

Macaque does get called wrong for what he does?? I've seen a lot of takes and stuff that get annoyed at him for having a redemption without him apologizing first and stuff floating around, but I honestly can't even understand those because he hasn't fully redeemed himself yet. His character arc isn't over. He hasn't even gotten enough time to develop that direction yet. He's very much an anti-hero narratively, always has been, and he's only just now starting to stray from that but I'm not sure by how much.

If he apologized at all in season 4 that would've been awful, out of character, and so forced. In season 5 not only would it still have been out of character and forced, but there was no time for that with everything else happening. I do not want to see him do that unless he works his way to it properly, which he hasn't.

He's a really morally grey character and the show isn't even trying to hide that narratively because he's always treated as his own unit separate to the others. That is only POSSIBLY starting to change after season 5 since he's getting more involved with the whole group, but we'll find that out in season 6.

But also I wouldn't be surprised if he never apologizes. I think the entire main cast has started to see him as "the weird emotionally repressed monkey who doesn't know how to talk to people normally and is a little bit of a freak about it" which like, y'know. Not a conventional forgiveness by any means. It's acceptance of him being there at best. I also think his actions are meaningful too. Red Son has also never apologized, and yet his actions have pretty much done it for him. Red Son feels easier to forgive because his antagonism was always on the more comical side, but I think that point still has standing.

I think there's an unbalance in how much of Wukong's side we see, but I don't think that's a narrative issue either. For one, I think they've been building up to it. These two aren't the main focus of the story (which only has 10 episode seasons with 4 episode specials) so it's gonna take a while. They're a B-plot at best, realistically probably more of a C-plot. Macaque is more willing than Wukong is to talk about what happened between them, too. Wukong tends to shut down when he's faced with things about his past that genuinely upset him. He doesn't talk about the pilgrims because he still grieves them. He isolated himself on his mountain for 600 years after imprisoning his last "friend" (DBK) that was still alive and came out of that isolation in hopes to "retire."

There are a lot of visuals and hints/clues to Wukong's sides of things and his feelings. With the rock of their painting still being there after all these centuries, knowing that Macaque is implied to be a large part of what he was getting stronger for (and what he sees as his worst mistake), the way he treats Macaque in general which is an exception to how he treats everybody else, etc.

I think, if anything, how closed off he is regarding information about Macaque reveals a lot about Wukong as a character because he's really avoidant. Which speaking of...

The main issue the others have with Wukong has always been his lack of communication with everyone, generally. Which is only made a big deal in seasons 2-3. He had a tendency to handle things on his own if he felt like nobody else could, but he does that without telling anyone what exactly his plans are. He shoulders way too much responsibility in season 2 and 3, which ironically makes him irresponsible.

Mei's issue with him in season 3 is that he was leading them into a very dangerous plan without telling them exactly what was going on, and also while withholding information from them. On top of his negligence in season 2 causing MK a lot of issues. Both are understandable things for Mei to get upset at him for. He makes up for it by apologizing to MK and being more communicative. Their relationship seems fine after season 3.

Pigsy is the only other one who had genuine issue with Wukong, which makes sense. He's MK's dad. He also feels like Wukong let MK down in season 2. He's the first to find out Wukong is withholding information in season 3. He still treats Wukong with respect, Pigsy is just like that and is protective of MK. He also doesn't like Macaque so it's not a Wukong specific thing.

Same with everybody else, his relationship to Wukong seems fine after season 3. They all help him with his house after it gets destroyed because he's their friend and they care about him. They wouldn't do that if they had a big issue with him still. Well, Sandy would, but more importantly Pigsy and Mei help with it. Tang gives .. moral support? But he's also there.

Wukong gets mad at Macaque for what he does during the samadhi fire, but Tang stops him because there was a part of him that felt compelled to do it, which is really important because it's part of establishing Tang's powers and connection to the golden cicada (reincarnation, descendant, whatever all of them are) but also Wukong attacking Macaque there wasn't gonna help anyone in that situation. On top of being in character for Tang to stop him, he doesn't like conflict much. He also learns a bit about Macaque in Benched and I think Tang is smart enough to know Macaque is a little more complicated than just being a villain because he attempts to talk Macaque out of hunting them down because he realizes that he'd have a better shot at defeating LBD with everyone. Which Macaque literally can't agree to because he CAN'T switch sides without getting killed, but I digress.

Not to mention, I think all of the characters are aware Macaque is on his own side. MK is immediately because he knows Macaque. Tang figures it out. There's always room to work with him if the right cards align, unless he's being forced on a specific side against his will.

I personally think it's made obvious enough that Wukong has good intentions with his mistakes. The fandom villainizes him a lot for some reason. Genuinely don't know how because the show certainly isn't doing that. It's also pretty well established, in my opinion, that Macaque is an unreliable narrator and what happened between him and Wukong is more nuanced than he makes it out to seem. That's PROVEN in season 4!!

Also not sure how Macaque is always characterized as the more mature one in the fandom. In the past? Macaque was more mature. Seasons 1-3? It was Wukong. Season 5? They're kinda starting to get on equal footing more... sorta.

In season 4, the brotherhood brings up a lot of Wukong's past mistakes, because that is what gets him imprisoned by heaven, but it also makes it really obvious how much he has changed over the years. To me, the way it comes across, is that the writers are putting emphasis on how guilty Wukong feels for his past behavior. They are not telling us that he's a bad person. Wukong constantly feels like he's making up for the person he used to be before he met Tripitaka and he spends the entire series trying to mitigate any possible hurt he can cause. That's why he keeps pushing them away at first and why he doesn't want MK responsible for LBD whatsoever.

And, to be honest, A Lifetime of Past Mistakes was largely about his and Macaque's relationship more-so than it was about the other things. It just reaffirms and pushes into the viewers face that the brotherhood is in the wrong with only a little grey area.

Azure shows up claiming to help, then pulls the rug out from Mei and MK's feet because he was manipulating them the entire time, and the only reason they didn't know is because Wukong literally was not able to tell them. A Lifetime of Past Mistakes basically just shows that Wukong became too power obsessed (anybody who has read jttw already knew that) and it reinforces that the brotherhood's intentions had been misguided from the start and Azure was the main contributor to that. Wukong played a roll, but it's not like Wukong lead the brotherhood astray. They were already doing that to themselves. Wukong was the only one to break out of that and change for the better.

Azure's issue with Wukong is unfair to him too! He blames Wukong for everything wrong that has happened, but MK is the one that points out how unfair that is by verbally telling them to his face, "None of this was Monkey King's fault." Because it literally isn't. Wukong isn't responsible for his past enemies mistakes. Any of them.

Even Macaque himself acknowledges that he believed (past tense) Wukong was a bad guy because Azure wanted them all to believe that, but when Wukong "betrayed" the brotherhood he was imprisoning them most likely for what they were doing to the land. Like they literally killed the entire land around them. They're not good people they were killing the land. Macaque doesn't even like these people even remotely. The brotherhood wasn't good at all, even though Azure had good intentions.

I SEE SO MUCH MISCHARACTERIZATION ABOUT THIS IN THE FANDOM IT DRIVES ME INSANE BECAUSE THIS ISN'T EVEN SUBTEXT THEY VERBALLY TELL US ALL OF THIS INFORMATION. I usually don't bring that up in more analysis-type posts but I have never been in a fandom where I'm constantly wondering if I'm watching the same show as everybody else. I remember there was a joke a couple years ago about like "lmk fans have never watched the show" but sometimes I don't know if it's a joke ..... How are people villainizing Wukong and not Azure. I don't think either of them should be fully villainized, but if either of them are going to be how would it ever be Wukong I feel like I'm going insane over here tbh.

Also even in season 4 they are all (bar MK and Wukong, who have a dif relationship with him) still scared of (or unsettled by) Macaque, and in season 5 nobody interacts with him enough for us to really know how they feel about him. None of them really interact with him though, besides MK and Wukong. MK still has his own hold ups about Macaque, but MK is also the same guy who saw good in Macaque, because he's always been an anti-hero narratively, and convinced him to help them fight LBD.

Nobody even announces concern for Macaque after he sacrifices himself except MK and Wukong. Nobody announces concern over him when he uses too much of his power except Wukong. Nobody thinks to look back for him or include him at the end of the world except Wukong.

Macaque also shows a considerable amount of concern for Wukong in season 5 as well. It's very balanced, they just have a very complicated relationship.

Sandy includes Macaque in the group hug, but this is Sandy we are talking about. He sees the good in everybody.

Macaque did help them save MK though, it's obvious that he's trying to be better (even if he hasn't verbally apologized to anybody yet), they all are at the very least vaguely aware he was working with LBD against his will, I'm not sure if they even fully know what happened during Shadow Play, and MK has been the center of most of what Macaque does. Wukong is on better terms with him so of course they'd let him celebrate with them.

There's a lot of different relationships and it's a lot to balance in the short runtime this series has. I don't think the writing is perfect and I wish some character dynamics got more time to have focus put on them, but overall the narrative is doing it's thing and I don't think it's doing it poorly.

Macaque is an anti-hero who is slowly starting to better himself and establish himself more into alignment with the protagonists. None of them have fully forgiven him, necessarily, but they are able to understand him well enough as a person and have relationships with him that are in depth enough to know he's not irredeemable or inherently awful. Narratively he is established as his own party, clearly not a great person, but we can also see that potential in him and see it grow as the series progresses. We can also sympathize with him, he's had a rough life and it's what leads him to making some poor decisions.

Wukong is a protagonist who is well-intentioned despite mistakes he may make along the way, is doing his best to be what MK needs, is able to realize when he needs to apologize and change his behavior if he's done something wrong, and is trying his best to do justice. We can see that he cares a lot about MK and his friends and would do anything to keep them safe while being non-violent and fairly level-headed, rational, and non-confrontational unless the situation seriously calls for it.

[chroniccomplainerlol]

Really unpopular opinion that arose after rewatching season 3 and 4 of LMK, but it annoys me to no end that Macaque barely did anything to improve (hasn't even apologized to MK lol) and basically got no consequences for his actions and yet he still got his redemption served to him on a silver platter.

Not to mention how much the fandom sugarcoats what he did, but I can't really blame them because the show is kinda doing it by itself considering the other characters' reactions. Like, you mean to tell me that Mei, of all people, would gladly fight side by side with Macaque?

Actually, why is the entire group so… casual around him as if they didn't watch the mf beat the shit out of MK right in front of them?

Highlight to Mei and Pigsy cause they are the first ones to call out Wukong about his mistakes, and them doing that while also giving Macaque a pass after everything he did to them makes no sense.

And it annoys me even more because there were villains/antagonists who could have easily had a redemption arc but got killed off instead.

Also the same thing happened with the Demon Bull Family: They hurt and tried to kill MK and many lives were at risk because of them, but guess what? No consequences lmao they're all besties now.

[falsementor]

" I just think he's neat. I wanna pat him on the head and then throw him off a cliff. "