#me seeing unhealthy characters and relationships in media like

[flamewear]

it feels like vagueposting to base somg concepts off my real life experiences but at the same time.. i literally want to use this artform as an emotional outlet

[godblooded]

i just gotta say peoples' obsessions with writing toxic relationships just concerns the shit outta me on this hellsite.

[ablednt]

My desire to make an owl house fan blog so I can be autistic about it in public vs my aversion to most fandom spaces FIGHT

[enixamyram]

My Unpopular Hazbin Hotel Opinions

Chaggie is one of the best couples and is underappreciated because it doesn't follow stereotypical romance tropes that have been forced down our throats by Hollywood for years.

The majority red colour doesn't bother me. In fact I think it works really well as a media tool to make Hell look depressing without being bland while places like Heaven stand out as being really magical because of the variety of color they have in comparison.

Vox, Velvette and Val are all entertaining characters with great designs and while I will enjoy karma and justice (hopefully) kicking their asses at the end, I also hope it isn't rushed and we can enjoy their chaotic relationship a bit longer.

As long as you respect canon, I don't see any problem with having fun with ships, even the OOC ones. (In fact I kinda like RadioStatic as a ship...)

There are no bad songs.

I hope it's revealed that characters like Angel and Husk did genuinely bad things that earned them places in hell. I feel like their greatest crimes being self inflicted abuse with drugs and alcohol takes away from Charlie's goal and the overall storyline.

I understand why people want Angel and Husk to have a relationship that's more emotional than sexual. But it feels a little unhealthy to say they would cut out sex entirely, like going from one extreme to the other is never a good thing.

Saying Niffty is like a child because of her size and goofiness while drunk is really almost dangerously problematic.

Velvette being treated like Val and Vox's daughter also feels really gross to me. Why is it always the women that get this treatment?

Hazbin Hotel is a passion project from an independent creator. Representation is important and great when included but it shouldn't necessarily be a check list everyone has to do. While I would love to see more plus sized characters, Vivzie clearly has an art style and she shouldn't be vilified for that. The same should not be said for mainstream media projects because they aren't telling a story out of love but rather to be popular and they have a much bigger impact on audiences so they should be held to higher standards.

[deepseagraveyard]

They totally leaned way too hard on the framing of their incredibly complex and loving relationship with literally so many beats that has subliminally been this underlying cornerstone of the whole series since as early as season 4-5 as this "totally definitetly more on the toxic side + is totally unchangeable and unfixable" which isn't entirely deniable but its tone feels way more antagonistic than necesary

obviously the tragedy and unhealthiness in their relationship is their cycle of self-sacrifice for the other + undervaluing themselves, but that love and that compatibility was still there! It majorly ignored how mutual the incredibly long chain of both simon and betty spending ages trying to see/save the other, and I'm glad that betty's perspective is elaborated on slightly (again the last episodes had really rushed pacing and didn't take advantage of all of its incredibly unique cast, concepts, settings and universe, etc) but it overviewed everything they had together and created this really tone-deaf take that simon didn't appreciate her as much as he should as if he hasn't been spending next-to-forever grieving over all of her sacrifice and how much he knows and loves her. Their relationship is wonderful and complex and has so much depth, and I'm worried about the kind of misinterpretations of them and their characters that could stem from this ending.

Also, it was probably intentional, but it also just felt incredibly anticlimatic, especially compared to the A-plot in fionna's world. This isn't like when ships don't get together in other media either, after all of this series focusing on how this specific relationship between these two subliminally being the key defining factor to the entire universe existing the way it did, they just break up so easily without so much as a single struggle or tears or anything? and then they're just fine afterwards so easily never seeing each other again despite the love that shaped and impacted and rewrote the entire planes of existence they lived in. You're going to tell me there's literally no way in this magical multiverse with curses and dieties and paradoxes and everything imaginable that there is no way they can be safe and happy together. that's what's impossible? My tone's really salty but the buildup vs the execution is unbelievable. that doesn't feel like well-written tragedy, more like a climax that wasn't really thought through fully. I thought I was satisfied with the ending initially, and while it feels alright on the surface, actually thinking about it for more than five minutes really has me feeling dissapointed. They deserved so much more and so much better.

[echo-and-dust]

now that my brain has somewhat unscrambled itself i have gotten most of my thoughts in order about season 3.

and the first thing i will say is: i loved it.

while it was gutwrenching and polarizing in some ways and i feel that i am entitled to financial compensation for what its done to my mental health, i loved this season for pretty much almost everything it did.

i cannot fault people for having issues with much of the characterization and plot choices made—that’s been the trend during the entire run of the show after all, and imo it’s a testament to the phenomenal way it generates nuance—but i wanted to share my feelings on the recurring opinions i’ve seen about some of these things.

first, i do not blame simon at all for the things he said in the final scene. he’s a child who has been receiving endless verbal and physical harassment on top of all the trauma he is still trying to heal from. he just watched his boyfriend lash out in anger and hurt—while not at him, but it must’ve been a close resemblance of how he might’ve seen micke act. at least, that's what i thought, though i've seen others say otherwise.

and yes, wille is not micke, but just because wille’s source of outbursts is different from micke’s doesn’t mean simon is wrong in drawing similarities. at least he's finally getting a true glimpse into what wille has had to deal with. i've honestly grown to like that they didn't have simon immediately comfort him though; wille's mental illness is not his fault, but it is his responsibility, and instead of pushing a message of unhealthy co-dependence, the show has simon be honest: "but i see that everything hurts you and that hurts me too." and to me, that's so important.

plus, it doesn't make their love any less genuine. wille is a victim of the circumstances; he is not evil, and he is not undeserving of simon. he just has a lot of growing and healing to do, a lot of unlearning and exposure therapy because he's still blinded by privilege even when he tries not to be.

speaking of, i have so many thoughts about wille that i feel like i need to save for its own separate post, but to sum them up: i'll still defend him with my life, and he needs to get the fuck away from that institution.

also, the fact that the responsibility of controlling simon's media decisions was placed solely on wille confused me at first like—why wouldn't they get a professional to give him proper media training?

then i realized, this could be the royal court's way of sabotaging their relationship. they knew that making wille the one to tell simon what he can and cannot say or post would create distance and animosity between them. despite the ramifications of simon's behavior on social media, it seems they still thought it best to have his boyfriend be the one to try to mold him into the system. because they knew that's how they could get rid of him. in conclusion, fuck the royal court (we been knew but still).

one of the standouts this season was their transparency regarding the show's politics. it not only works well with the show's arc (wilmon is public, everything's out in the open now and there's nothing to hide), but also it felt necessary at a time where censorship has been rapidly gaining momentum. it felt so refreshing for these characters to talk so openly about racial discrimination and queerphobia and class disparities, forcing both character and viewer to acknowledge that they exist and you should feel uncomfortable about it.

i don't think i can add much more to what was already said about it—most of the fandom is more eloquent and observant than i am anyway—i just wanted to reinforce how important this season is to myself and the story even with how controversial it is to fans right now. a lot of people may disagree with me and that's fine.

[acoraxia]

What are your thoughts on shadowpeach?

Fandom wise? I do not care for it.

Canon wise? I believe in men committing crimes while forming the most toxic, unhealthy attachments to one person could lead to such a dysfunctional relationship that it, eventually, turns into a functional one. And also they’re trans and aspec.

Disclaimer: this is all my opinion and people can do whatever they want, i simply have my gripes with some of the fandom stuff. this is just me explaining what i like and dislike about shadowpeach.

I think the most common thing people fall into when it comes to ships—or shipping in general—is how to domesticate these two characters without fully addressing their flaws, personalities, behavior, and their overall choices throughout the original media/show they come from. 

Macaque and SWK both suffer equally through this mischaracterization: Macaque is often painted as this shy or “edgy” character with little to no ties to his actual character in canon and, more often than not, he is perceived as this “dad” type of character when, in fact, he should not be allowed near children for I fear he will bully them nonstop until they sit there in the corner feeling disheartened and miserable about themselves; Sun Wukong is often portrayed as this dumb himbo with little-to-no means of understanding social cues, not understanding emotions in a way that’s very frustrating, and be this yearning, pining idiot who’s still longing for his childhood crush when he did not hesitate to punch this guy in the face multiple times throughout the show. So when they are paired up together it’s this weird mash of people believing Macaque is the better dad with more understanding of human behavior and Wukong is his dumb, doting husband who’s doing his best and cannot stand up for himself when confronted about things.

The amount of times people choose to make Macaque sympathetic by having Sun Wukong’s family side with Macaque when it comes to Wukong’s actions/choices is so vast I could not count them all on one hand. The common trope of having Princess Iron Fan (Sun Wukong’s sister-in-law) become Macaque’s sworn sister is so disheartening to see for someone who read through Journey To The West and thought of how silly the overall family dynamic of the Demon Bull Family and Sun Wukong’s troops was. Removing Iron Fan as Sun Wukong’s literal sister just to have someone backup Macaque and sympathize with him is funny and a bit silly. 

That being said… the canon version of Shadowpeach and its possibilities are, in fact, very delicious.

Canon wise this is what we know about Sun Wukong and Macaque’s history together: 

Sun Wukong and Macaque meet

The brotherhood is formed after Azure meets Sun Wukong, Macaque tags along with Wukong (note: Macaque is not addressed as “brother” by the characters, only Wukong is)

Macaque tries to warn Wukong about how dealing with Heaven might be a bad idea

They share a peach under a tree; Wukong reassures Macaque this plan will work

Wukong carries on with Azure’s plan anyway (yes, azure lion’s plan, not wukong’s)

The brotherhood is defeated and Wukong gets trapped under a mountain

Presumably no one comes to visit Wukong, only Macaque

During his final visit, Wukong is angry that Macaque is free and can’t see the fact that Wukong was trying to do everything for them and his kingdom

Macaque snaps back at Wukong and calls him an obsessive demon before leaving

They have another fallout and fight

Wukong ends up killing Macaque in the aftermath

500~ years later, Macaque and Wukong fight again with Wukong being more apathetic towards their reunion than Macaque is

Macaque obsesses over Wukong continuously (coughs)

Macaque is biased in his retellings of his and Wukong’s relationship (see: all of shadowplay and the scrolls memories)

They fight (again) throughout S3

They somewhat reconcile by the end of S4

We will address the fact Sun Wukong was groomed into going to war by this former celestial warrior instead of having it be because of his own want to protect his family and friends after Heaven refused to pay him the respect he wanted when he first joined their ranks later. Right now we focus on the fact that Sun Wukong is canonically a person people easily fall in love with (platonically) and have a tendency to want to stay close to regardless of what his future actions will be like and Macaque is sequentially obsessed with him throughout the show.

“The hero and the warrior were like the Sun and the Moon. Their light, a protective glow, shining upon the world. Together, there was nothing that could stop the two of them. Either in the Celestial Realms or on Earth. As time went on, the hero attained power beyond comprehension. As the hero's light grew, so too did his shadow. And soon, the warrior was cast in that shadow. In the darkness, the warrior was forgotten by the hero.”

Fun fact: Macaque is never going to be on par with Sun Wukong’s power and he works best as support than he does a duo-attacker along side Wukong. Wukong is on his own power level and Macaque, while being able of holding his own against enemies, could be stomped to death by Xiaoijiao is he crossed the line.

Macaque’s obsession with Sun Wukong comes from the inability to move on from the past; Macaque wanting things to go back as they were is a subtle theme going through the show — he keeps latching on to biased memories and avoiding the actual problems that caused their relationship to fall apart and it isn’t until Season 3’s big confrontation with Long Xiaojiao’s Samadhi Fire ritual. He realizes he abandoned Wukong during a time of need and proceeds to flee, abandoning him again. 

Macaque has issues. More often than not people call out on Sun Wukong for abandoning Xiaotian or the Monkie Kid Crew all while ignoring the fact Sun Wukong does not purposefully leave Qi Xiaotian, he tries his hardest to make it back in time and is visibly scared/horrified when LBD attacks in his absence. Sun Wukong tries his hardest to comfort Xiaotian while Macaque tries to torment him. 

Regardless, Sun Wukong and Macaque’s relationship is unique to most media’s portrayal of friends turned enemies. Because Wukong does not see Macaque as a threat up until he teams up with Lady Bone Demon — he is only scary by association, not by anything he has done up until that point. You can tell with the way Wukong mocks him and calls him something akin to a puppet during their interaction in Season 3 when Macaque trapped him and Nezha in the ice. 

And even then Macaque doesn’t even bother trying to engage with Wukong in a friendly manner because kindness is for losers HA i’m not apologizing for anything, bye Sun Wukong, you big old LOSER [proceeds to possibly live on the streets and stay homeless until wukong allows him to return to ffm under certain house rules]

You’ll notice that Sun Wukong barely has any opinions on Macaque.

This is because Macaque is favored by the narrative more than Sun Wukong is so we have very little context as to how Sun Wukong genuinely feels towards Macaque. 

Sun Wukong sees Macaque as an annoyance, a bother, a threat, a coward, an imposter and then, finally, an ally. 

But all we get from that is Wukong handing Macaque a peach-flavored ice cream pop as a parallel to him sharing a peach with his old friend back when they were young monkeys before he was trapped under a mountain for 500 years as a result of his abuser’s power hold on him that forced him to fight heaven as a way to “make the world a better place”. 

We love to see it.

Macaque and Wukong’s relationship goes from mutual interest and a supportive friendship established years prior to the original building of the brotherhood to a very weird, uncategorized type of dynamic. The only way to characterize Sun Wukong’s “affection” towards Macaque is, possibly, the same way most people would characterize Macaque to be towards Wukong. Y’know the slightly judgmental actions and eye rolls and scoffs of affection most people write about Macaque when Wukong does something stupid? Yeah.

“But Macaque said “this guy” when Wukong was presenting his plan to defeat Azure—“ yeah have you considered Wukong does a lot of masking in the presence of the entire Monkie Kid Crew and Macaque has a tendency to present himself as this cool persona when in fact he’s just a homeless monkey who’s been crashing on his ex’s couch for the past weeks since the ending of Season 3? 

“OK…. but why QPR Shadowpeach?”

Sun Wukong throughout the course of Journey to the West and all its past and future iterations have always had him be uninterested in both men and women. There are multiple instances where he’s capable of courting women and he instead backs away or does not pay it any mind; aside from this he’s heavily implied to only care about familial love and friendships. He does not see his pilgrim brothers as anything more than family and he views Tripitaka as a mentor rather than someone whom he was chained to. And Azure was his idol and he was groomed by him, and everyone else was viewed to him as a troop — or, y’know, a family.

This and the fact that— both Sun Wukong and Macaque are over a thousand years old. Why on earth would they have a normal type of relationship? Giving them a checklist of what passes on as romantic and platonic when to them the line is so blurred it’s barely existent to them is amusing. 

Sun Wukong and Macaque having their own weird relationship where it changes from frustrated best friends to partners to angry middle aged demons to the tired traumatized immortals who sometimes cuddle while still beating each other up is so deliciously interesting and unhealthy to the point where it is healthy. 

Also Celestial bodies are not the same as mortal bodies; canonically Sun Wukong has transformed into women before and people have addressed him with female-leaning pronouns before. my personal headcanon of sun wukong being genderfluid lves on and now we can have sapphic shadowpeach with transfem macaque.

also im still feverish so if this doesnt make sense then too bad damn im sorry

[daytaker]

Sins, Virtues, and Motivations: A Critical Analysis of Characters in Shall We Date?: Obey Me!

In this essay, I will argue that each demon brother some of the demon brothers can be associated with a sin (no duh), a virtue, and a core motivation--and that this motivation is best pursued through a synthesis of that sin and that virtue. Hegel would be very proud. Yes, this is critical media analysis. No, I will not try to explain the twisted, broken path that led me to this point in my life.

I will be looking at Lucifer, Mammon, and Levi in this study. Their core sins are obvious - Pride, Greed, and Envy. Their accompanying Virtues and Motivations are listed below.

I used the Seven Heavenly Virtues for this little game. These are Prudence, Justice, Fortitude, Temperance, Faith, Hope, and Charity.

They should not be confused with the Seven Capital Virtues, which are inversions of the Seven Deadly Sins. These are Humility, Charity, Kindness, Patience, Chastity, Temperance, and Diligence. I tried these first and damn were none of them easy to match up. Tell me, fandom for this mobile game designed for players to lust over hot demon men, which brother should have the "chastity" virtue?

Lucifer

Core Sin: Pride. Core Virtue: Fortitude. Core Motivation: To protect his family.

Lucifer's core motivation is to protect his brothers. He looks at this as a sort of penance for the outcome of the Great Celestial War. He knows that he's the reason they rebelled, and he feels responsible for their wellbeing. He is able to endure the relentless pressure of the responsibilities he puts on himself thanks to his core virtue, fortitude.

Fortitude is strongly associated with courage. Specifically, it is courage in the face of pain and adversity. We see him displaying this trait any time those he cares for are in jeopardy, and it often helps him make difficult decisions where neither outcome is ideal. Lucifer is decisive, canny, and accepts the consequences of his choices, good or bad.

His driving motivation is also bolstered by his core sin: pride. He views himself as ultra-competent, while his brothers consistently make mistakes; beyond that, it's only natural that he take responsibility for the choices of his brothers (like the choice to join him in rebelling) because he is so significant an influence as to virtually rob them of their autonomy.

This has led to Lucifer having a somewhat toxic relationship with his brothers. Lucifer often acts as a parental figure rather than a peer, while the rest of them are all in arrested development of some sort, often acting more like kids than the adults they insist they are.

Lucifer either doesn't recognize that by doing everything for the family on his own, he's stemming their ability to grow and learn, or he does know the consequences of what he's doing and he feels conflicted about it. He ultimately blames himself for the fact that they're all in the Devildom in the first place, living as avatars of sins to the extent that they struggle to function as independent adults.

So, while fortitude and pride allow Lucifer to simulate the act of protecting his family, it's a matter of perspective whether controlling every element of their lives is protection or harmful coddling.

Mammon

Core Sin: Greed. Core Virtue: Charity. Core Motivation: To be valued and valuable.

Mammon is simultaneously a vessel of greed and its inverse, charity. This is because his core motivation is twofold, and those are the rewards of greed and charity; to be valued - to fulfill a want, to be desired, to look flippin' cool - and to be valuable - to fulfill a need, to have inherent worth, to serve a purpose.

Setting aside his unhealthy relationship with money, let's examine how Mammon behaves and what his deeper interpersonal motivations tend to be. He clearly places a high value on his brothers and MC, and he has shown on multiple occasions that he is willing to put himself at risk to help or protect them. Early on in both the original game and in NightBringer, Mammon attempts to heroically rescue MC (and his younger brothers, in NightBringer). In both cases, though, Lucifer shows up and does it for him. Mammon's pursuit of his core motivation clashes with Lucifer's quest for his, and Lucifer is strong enough to simply take it from him. Although in NightBringer he and his brothers do earn the not-insubstantial reward of the title "Lords of the Underworld" after Lucifer's rescue, he appeared so dejected by Lucifer's oneupmanship that he spent a good portion of the next day sulking. In the original game, Mammon wants MC to promise that they won't be saved by anyone else besides him in the future. It appears that his greed for an improved status in his interpersonal relationships is left unfulfilled.

Mammon wants to be heroic - to be valuable - and he wants to be admired for it - to be valued. The cognitive dissonance that accompanies motivations like these is all that sustains a person with such a diminished sense of self-worth.

Speaking of a diminished sense of self worth...

Leviathan

Core Sin: Envy. Core Virtue: Hope. Core Motivation: To find joy in the things that give him joy.

Confusing motivation? Yes it is. But envy is a confusing sin. All the other sins--pride, greed, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth--are enjoyable to indulge on some level. Losing your temper when you feel you've been wronged, or eating a bunch of delicious food, or sleeping through the snooze alarm: We know why we do those things. We might regret them later, but we indulge them in the moment because of the enjoyable side.

There is nothing enjoyable about envy. Wanting something that isn't yours, that belongs to someone else, be it tangible goods, talents, a partner, a job... is nauseating. And it makes you feel like a bad person, and it drains the joy out of things that you used to love. Speaking from personal experience for a second, when I was a teenager, I played music in a company with a much younger musician who was incredibly talented, and I was deeply envious of her. I wanted her talent; I wanted the praise she received; I wanted to impress people; I wanted what she had. But there was nothing I could do. I hated feeling that way, but I couldn't shake it. And it ate away at my desire to play music. It took the joy out of something that once gave me joy.

You see the connection?

Levi struggles to find pleasure in anything he does, despite how many interests he has, because, in spite of his blustering dismissal of all things "normie", he is deeply envious of those he perceives as his social superiors. Now, I am not in any way saying that Levi is or would be an inc3l, but there's an element of his character that has a strong parallel to inc3l culture. The idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with him that prevents him from achieving what he wants socially and that the only way he can protect himself from those who would ridicule him is with a defensive contempt for the group that rejects him... Does any of that sound familiar?

But Levi is not an inc3l. No, not because you're willing to **** him and his two *****, though I'm sure that helps. It's because he has his core virtue: hope.

Have you ever heard of the black pill? It's kind of like the final stage of inc3l culture, where you accept that you're not an alpha male, you'll never be one, you'll never be accepted by a woman, you're ugly and unloveable, and you might as well just stop existing. It is sheer despair.

Levi maintains hope for the future, even if he prefers not to admit it out of fear of jinxing himself. He is able to form a deep bond with MC, who he views as a "normie", without renouncing his hobbies or being mocked for them. In fact, I would argue that the anxiety Levi sometimes displays over the possibility of being made fun of (for example, in NightBringer when he considers trying out cosplay) is emblematic of the hope he has that he can be accepted.

"But wait, daytaker," you say. "That doesn't sound like he's making progress towards his core motivation of getting joy out of the things that bring him joy! Being self conscious is not joyful!" Well, you're right. What Levi needs is to somehow find the right balance between enjoying his hobbies and allowing himself to enjoy other people as well. As we can see from his effusive excitement in sharing his favorite games and stories with MC and his brothers, the social component of media consumption is a major component in making it enjoyable. If Levi loses hope, he loses that connection to the world offline, and if he loses that connection, he loses the joy.

@blackstqr (I did it.)

[oyasumicloseyoureyes]

I hate it when the Omori fandom shames people who ship Sunnflower because they think it's "trauma bonding", "manipulative" and "abusive", which is simply not true.

Basil isn't "obsessed" with Sunny as people claim, just because a person idolizes someone doesn't mean they're some crazy yandere. He saw one of his closest friends dying in front of his eyes, which left him traumatized, causing all the delusions and the denial. All of the stuff he did (like hanging Mari or "saving" Sunny from Something), he did with good intentions, even if he did end up making things worse. That's his character flaw and it makes him human. He tried his best to protect his friend, and people who say he's toxic or manipulative are just media illiterate.

And the fact that people think that Sunny legitimately hates Basil is so bizarre to me, the game has shown so many times how important Basil is to him. How Sunny dives into the lake, literally risking his own life to save him despite having aquaphobia, or how he wants to find and save Basil in Headspace despite the fact that Basil ruins everything by reminding Sunny of the truth, and it would be easier to forget about Basil altogether, like he did with Abbi, but Sunny doesn't do it because he can't see his dream world without Basil, are all examples of that. He even dreams of hugging him right after Basil stabbed him in the eye, for God's sake.

There are only two moments in the game when the player might think that Sunny dislikes Basil. The first one is when Omori kills Basil in Black Space, but that only happens because Omori wants to protect Sunny from the truth, not because Sunny hates him. The second moment is when Sunny leaves Basil in the bathroom. Again, he does it not because he hates him, but because he's afraid, Basil literally says himself:

"Sunny...W-Why...Why do you look so scared?"

Not angry or disgusted, but scared. Sunny was afraid and it made him leave. And that's Sunny's character flaw, he's afraid to face problems so he runs away from them, hurting people in the process. He didn't abandon his best friend for 4 years on purpose. Only in the final fight with Basil he found the courage to face his fears and stay to save him. Saving Basil is mandatory and without doing it you can't have the good ending and Sunny can't have a healthy, happy life. His healing is tied to Basil and people tend to ignore that.

Omori literally shows that these two care about each other more than anything. And yes, realistically their relationship would be unhealthy at first, but so would every other relationship in the main group, they all have problems that they need to work on, that's why therapy exist. So It's really hypocritical to hate on Sunnflower for being toxic and then ship the other characters.

On that note, If you think people with trauma can't form healthy relationships, don't deserve to be happy and won't ever get better - you're completely wrong.

The whole Sunnflower discourse proves people only see trauma victims through that lens, and completely disregard their previous relationships and characteristics.

Sunny and Basil's struggles make them feel real. Their trauma doesn't have to define them. They can grow and heal and be happy again and if you think otherwise then you completely missed the point of Omori.

[saintsenara]

How are you able to enjoy toxic/unhealthy/“problematic” ships/characters without feeling weird (for lack of a better word) about it?

I ask this because I want to be able to do this myself as it seems like a much more enjoyable way of engaging with fiction to me. I can get over some ships just being toxic and the characters not being good together and still enjoy their dynamic but I have trouble with the other ships that feel morally wrong. I know it’s just fiction but I can’t seem to get over the ick feeling I have when I think about those ships/characters. I feel like I’m being too puritanical about these things but I don’t know how to stop feeling like something is gross when I feel it’s gross…

Do you have any tips to stop jumping to moralizing ships/characters?

thank you very much for the ask, anon!

i'm going to be upfront that this reflexive gross feeling isn't something i've ever really struggled with - both in fic and more broadly. this is due to various personal idiosyncrasies, above all the fact that i've got disengaged boomer parents who didn't police our media consumption [my favourite book when i was eleven? lolita...] and that i'm a doctor, which is a profession which requires you to develop a very high threshold for what you find disgusting. the human body - at all stages of its life-cycle and its cycle of decomposition - produces a lot of different fluids... and it's also the case that [just as if you can think of it, there's porn for it] if an inanimate object exists, somebody somewhere has got it stuck inside them...

and so the situation that i find myself in is that i consider it infinitely less weird that i enjoy the odd bit of hot tomarrymort action than that i actively enjoy cutting through bone with a saw...

but, obviously, "get a medical degree" isn't particularly helpful advice...

i am a ride-or-die fan of the concept of stepping outside of your comfort zone. this is why i'm such an avowed multishipper - i think it's good for us as fandom citizens to examine the potential of our faves in relationships [romantic or otherwise] which are either not their canon endgames or which aren't our preferred pairings, and in situations which don't align with their canon experiences [whether that means making them suffer or giving them full-on fluff]. it draws out the multiple aspects of a character to consider them from these different angles - and it prevents us from getting so stuck in one interpretation of a character or configuration of a ship which means that it puts our backs up to stumble across stories which approach things differently.

but stepping outside of your comfort zone doesn't mean that you have to go enormously far. it may be that a reader decides - having only ever read teen-rated fics where characters' sex lives don't extend beyond hand-holding and forehead kisses - to take the plunge into an explicit piece filled to the brim with watersports and age play. it may be that a reader decides - having only ever read teen-rated fics for one canon pairing - to read a teen-rated fic for a non-canon alternative. both of these are entirely valid approaches.

by which i mean, our comfort levels and our thresholds for discomfort are subjective, they're personal. if there are ships or themes or characters you don't want to read about because they don't feel good... you're not doing something wrong if you avoid them. exposing yourself to fics you expect to make you uncomfortable can be useful - and fiction is certainly a way to explore discomfort which gives you much more control over the experience than encountering it in real life - but it's not something you're obliged to do to be active in fandom.

the thing you are obliged to do to be active in fandom is to be nice to other people, no matter what their tastes in fiction. this means, at its fundamental level, that when you see people who ship pairings or like themes which make you think "ew"... you keep it to yourself/the group chat rather than putting it on the timeline.

but, once this is something you've got the hang of [which takes a bit of time! but practice makes perfect!], something i feel can be a really useful way of overcoming a tendency towards knee-jerk moralising reactions is to just vibe in the vicinity of people you know like the content you instinctively feel is gross.

this doesn't mean you have to read any of this content - but you'll learn just by hanging out near them that the people who do are just... normal. one minute they might reblog a rec for a pairing you think "absolutely not" about, the next they might reblog a cat picture which makes you squeal with delight. you'll like some of their content, but not all. you'll agree with some of it, but not all. you might like progressively more of it as you spend time in their orbit - maybe they'll explain why they like the pairing or character in question and you'll think "huh, i've never looked at it like that" - or you might not. this is absolutely fine.

all of us - at one time or other - have made a black-and-white moralising pronouncement: people who think x are gross; people who like y are fucked-up, you'd never catch me doing z. and these pronouncements are different from our wider, societally-influenced moral codes - which are good things, otherwise we'd live in the purge - in that they're fundamentally ways for us to feel good about ourselves and our families and our friends by defining ourselves as better than a faceless other. we say "you'd never catch me reading that, it's foul" when we know [or think we know] that the friend we're talking to would agree with the statement. we are far less likely to say it if we know that the friend - whom we see as a human being who is beautiful in their imperfection and inherently worthy of love simply by virtue of being alive - was reading and enjoying that just the other day.

and so the best way to train yourself out of reflexively moralising ships or characters or tropes is to put a face to the faceless other who likes them. be intentional in sharing a space with fans of the stuff you feel uncomfortable with and, eventually, it just becomes background noise. you'll scroll on tumblr, say "well there we are, jane's written some more of her sirius/harry piss kink fic - although i'm not interested in clicking on it" and go on with your day.

because the other thing i think it's really useful to do is to train yourself into reframing your disgust as disinterest. there are plenty of things which i don't seek out to read - and some of these topics are completely benign and some are darker [i don't enjoy reading explicit non-con, for example] - but this is because i try to frame it as that i don't think these things would interest me.

this is still the maintenance of a personal comfort zone, but thinking of the content outside this zone as something you are disinterested in turns it into something neutral. when you think of it as something to be disgusted or grossed out by, it naturally provokes a visceral response which makes you look through a moral lens. thinking in terms of disinterest, instead, gives you sufficient detachment from this visceral response to recognise, interrogate, contextualise, and control it.

and - in time - this neutral reframing may result in you feeling more interested in taking the plunge into the ships and characters and stories you currently don't vibe with, once you don't have an instinctive disgust response as a barrier.

or it may not. and this is absolutely fine.

[66sharkteeth]

Time for weekly thoughts!

Well BOY THAT SURE WAS AN EPISODE, HUH? That...I think most people really liked or hated it so much that they unsubscribed and downvoted the series haha (yes, that happened and yes, I expected it because it happens literally anything remotely gay happens lol).

hm... What is there to really say about this ep? I feel like moooost people got what happened between them after their conversation, but for the naïve, yes they got. uh. intimate (And you can see the rest of their night on my 18+ patreon! ;D).

In all seriousness tho, this is an ep I was equal parts nervous and excited for. Nervous bc it's always a little scary to depict... 1. openly gay relationships in media when you have more than 10 followers lol (and sure enough, had to deal w/ a few nasty comments) and 2. scary to depict unhealthy relationships because we know how the internet can be lol. Thankfully, I think the former turned out to be the only real problem and the opinions of biggots effect me far less because personally I just don't let the opinions of actual garbage get to me.

That said, I WAS excited to get to this episode because it was kind of a huge moment for Jericho's character. And I'm glad...mooost people got what was going on? Judging from the comments? There were definitely a few confused why the scion hates Claude, but most of them seem cleared up by others who 100% got it. TLDR of the entire episode is Jericho does care (a lot) about Claude deep down, but his Scion thinks its lame and weak to have human emotions like love. It's also our first time seeing Jericho not completely in sync w/ his own scion and kind of in the time out that Rex's put him in so often because they don't get along.

Anyway, good for you Claude, even if it was technically really unhealthy that you got rewarded for those actions. And good for Jericho for letting his human side indulge for a change, even if you're now in time out and took advantage of someone in a really vulnerable and desperate state. You two are terrible for each other but glad you had one good night.

Also, I want to print and hang every "Scion is homophobic" comment on my wall. They are literally the funniest fucking thing in the world to me

[thefirstlioveyou]

isn’t it interesting that for a good majority of audience, all a straight relationship has to do to be considered peak fiction or writing is to make out and have an unhealthy dynamic that loser cishet men can self insert themselves in? for general audiences, these ships don’t need to prove themselves why they’re good - they just have to be a boy and a girl.

but then you got a fully fleshed out dynamic between two characters of the same sex, where their endgame fulfills their personal arcs and are meant to be; they just work, all while still reaching their full potential as characters. but instead of support and, y’know, basic media literacy, it’s always, “why is everything gay now? why can’t they just be friends?” well, because they only ever are! that’s why!

maybe it’s because i’m queer and will naturally be drawn to media i can resonate with, but it’s incredibly rare for me to believe there’s romance in a fictional het ship. it’s almost always souless, always the same formula. there’s no effort to make the audience fall in love along with them. don’t get me wrong, there are queer relationships that also feel poorly written and i cannot seem to be drawn to, but i’ve never experienced this the same amount of times i have with a het ship; not even close.

however, i never felt this way watching stranger things. lumax, jopper, jancy - they are absolutely believable romances. there’s conflict, there’s reason why they love each other. but most of all, the relationship takes its time to grow. the writers understand pacing is an important factor for writing romance.

this is why mileven always seemed so different from the rest, and why it was always destined to fail because of it. it was forced. literally in the narrative, it is pushed upon mike by his friends. el is kissed and because she sees mike in this pedastal from her trauma regarding male caregivers, she follows through and grows an unhealthy dynamic from the understanding of love she’s only ever been familar with. i genuinely believe she never would have seen him in a romantic light if he hadn’t kissed her. and finally, their character arcs just cannot be fulfilled if they continue to stay together - they just can’t. they just go back to square one with zero growth.

there is no actual appeal to the ship. it was cute the first season! but… that’s it? they kept getting pulled away from each other by the story itself, so they get like no time together. and the time they do, they’re busy breaking up. they have no common interests, they can’t give each other what they want/need, they unintentionally trigger each other’s traumas, still have yet to connect on a personal level.

but, i guess that’s what you call beautifully written television romance.. i guess that’s where we are.

[waybeforeyourtime]

the parasocial relationship that some people have with edvin and omar is insane. and the entitlement. these guys don't know you, and you don't actually know them, even if you think you do. they don't actually owe us anything, but they still manage to interact with the fans when they can. I think they interact with fans more than any other fandom I've been apart of. but its still not enough for some people. if they've taken a step back on social media its their business and its shallow to assume it reflects how they feel about yr, as many people like to imply, because imo they've both shown time and time again how much the show has meant to them.

Modern parasocial relationships are so disturbing. Fans think they can read people's minds based on body language captured in a split second. Or they take a comment and think they know the hidden meaning behind it. Or they think they are 'owed' knowing who the actor is dating.

My mind can't fathom how people can't see how unhealthy it is for all parties involved.

This fandom has reminded me why I enjoy book fandoms so much more. I mean there's fan entitlement, ofc. And there have been issues with authors online. But most of the time no real people are harmed. Fictional characters are not harmed by my obsessive nature.

[tismrot]

UNHEALTHY, NEURODIVERGENT GOOD OMENS BRAINROT

It really gets to me - how my brain was my own (my obsessions, emotions and intrusive thoughts were about me, my life, my relationships) until I watched that last episode.

I’d seen Season 1 a couple of years back and thought it was cute. I noticed the #ineffablehusbands hashtag via Instagram and I remember thinking “aww” - I didn’t care all that much. It wasn’t a Thing for me.

And then I notice season 2 is out on Prime, I wait a couple of weeks to see it and then, having finished some other shows I needed something new to watch while walking on my treadmill.

First episodes were… cozy. I shamefully have to admit I went “oh, right, they had that impossible love thing going on” when watching these episodes, and I thought it would be nice if they got together by the end, and it certainly looked like it was heading there, in a meandering, fuzzy way.

By the fifth episode I’m quite invested, of course, and after Beelz and Gab revealed their love in episode six, I was like YEAH, now Aziraphale and Crowley kinda gotta, don’t they? Still no brainrot yet, just the regular “I’ve watched almost all of this show now and the main characters are into each other, so I’m rooting for them”.

And then, of course, the Final Fifteen. It took me from [casual viewer in her 30s] to [teenaged, autistic me, alone in my room all of the equivalent of junior high, obsessively teaching myself to read and understand Elvish, sewing elven dresses for myself that I wore to school, listening to nothing but Gregorian chants and the LotR soundtrack, watching the movie until the cassette was ruined].

I’ve now read Ars Goetia, Paradise Lost and Dante’s Inferno. I re-read all of Jane Austen (and I’m not even a fan). I bought the script book, I’ve read thousands of pages of fanfics, and I’ve written probably 300 myself (of which some is published. It’s not very good, but it’s there, I made it, it’s the child of my brain that was born from this obsession). I draw again, and I haven’t for years. Everything I do and say and feel finds a parallel or reference within then GO universe.

And. I mean. I may be autistic, but since the days in my room during my teen years, I have lived. I have been around the block and I haven’t kept my nose clean, I’ve been terrible and terrific and out there, I’m an extrovert and I’ve made so many friends and enemies, I have experiences. When I was 14, I had very little of that at all. I did not see the brainrot coming, I had no idea I was still capable, I thought my own life had been dramatic enough.

3 months later, and I still can’t sleep. I see them when I close my eyes. I watch other kind of media and make notes for my fic. I want to break free, but God knows I’ve fallen in love, and I am BROKEN over this. Give me season 3 or give me a stash that lasts until then.

(This gif depicts me throwing Good Omens out of my brain)

[tea-earl-grey]

i had an itching for comfort media so i went back to watch some s1 voyager episodes and s1 is soooo much better than i remembered. the later seasons appeal to my tastes a bit more but all the characters in s1 are so earnest and hopeful even when they butt heads and disagree and i'm just sitting here like "oh god they don't know what the next 7 years have in store..." i doubt it was that purposeful on the writers' part but it's so compelling how all of the characters have pretty open insecurities and are clearly people with lives and dreams beyond Voyager and bit by bit that's chipped away in later seasons. yes everyone becomes more confident and competent but is that really who they are or are they just losing themselves along the journey? (unfortunately the Doyalist explanation is just that the writers stopped putting focus on like. half of the main cast but shh i'm here for Watsonian analysis.)

like it's particularly noticeable with Janeway. she's definitely always been written as a strong leader but i forgot how much in early seasons we get to see her insecurities and vulnerabilities, how different she acts from when she's acting as captain to when she's alone, how often she questions her morality and whether she has the right to make decisions for her crew (and how often others questioned that right). then in the later seasons (around s3 and definitely by s4), she almost never questions her moral decisions, she rarely shows doubt, she plans heists on Borg cubes without a second thought, she dispenses her justice to the Equinox crew without really considering their position, she regulates others' autonomy (especially with Seven and the Doctor) without seeming to realize how easily that can go wrong. and don't get me wrong i love this development and think it's incredibly realistic for Janeway to deeply internalize her role and authority as a Captain and for it to permanently change her sense of self. Endgame is the perfect closure for Janeway's character because her future self exerts that same authority that she's been practicing over herself (also Janeway gets to live out her martyr complex one last time). i just wish the show was a little bit more self-aware that it was writing Janeway (and other characters) like this because there could be so many more interesting character conflicts.

anyways rewatching early ds9 made me say "aww these characters don't know that one day they'll all grow together and basically become family" and rewatching early voyager has me saying "uhohhhh these characters don't know the unhealthy relationships and neuroses they're going to uncover and develop". toxic found family for the win.

[aspoonofsugar]

Angel and Alastor: Masquerade

Angel and Alastor are the first two demons to join the Hazbin Hotel, as respectively a guest and a staff member. However, both hide their real motivations and feelings towards the project.

On the one hand Angel deep down wants to change, but is too scared to admit it:

And I know I'm raisin' cane by every highway in Hell Maybe things won't be so terrible inside this hotel

On the other hand Alastor has ulterior motives, but he has yet to disclose them:

I'm hungry for freedom like never before The constraints of my deal surely have a back door

In other words, the two demons wear a mask and refuse to reveal their real feelings. This behavior is rooted in two jungian archetypes that can be used to describe Angel and Alastor's parallel arcs.

PERSONA AND SHADOW

According to Jung, the persona and the shadow are two complementary parts of the human mind:

The persona or mask is what lies in the light for others to see. It is what a person shows while interacting with the world.

The shadow or beast is what is hidden in the darkness. It is what a person represses and refuses to reveal to the world.

Both Angel and Alastor wear personas to hide their shadows:

Angel Dust: Oh ho ho, me? Fake? Wow, I had no idea. Guess that's why I'm an actor, dumbass.

Alastor: Just because you see a smile don't think you know what's going on underneath.

However, they are opposites in how they deal with this masquerade.

Angel embodies the persona, as he is linked to masks and lights (he peforms under flashing lights):

He always acts to the point he is trapped in a neverending role:

Angel Dust: It's not an act! It's who I need to be.

So, he doesn't know who he is anymore. Is Angel Dust all there is? Or can Anthony still be found deep down?

Valentino owns Anthony and has forced him in the persona of Angel Dust.

Alastor embodies the shadow, as he is linked to darkness (his powers make use of shadow-creatures):

He represses his feelings behind a smile:

Alastor: A smile is a valuable tool, my dear. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures that no matter what comes your way, you're the one in control.

As a result, his darkest instincts are slowly taking over, making him a threath to both others and himself:

As Alastor hides his true intentions, his shadow grows bigger and more malicious.

The two demons perfectly sum up how dangerous the persona and the shadow can be, if left unchecked:

If one constantly wears a mask, it won't come off and will suffocate the person's self.

If one keeps on repressing their emotions, these feelings will grow stronger and find violent ways to come out.

Angel is a persona stuck to the face, whereas Alastor is a festering shadow.

The two characters' similar and yet opposite archetypes are so intertwined in Angel and Alastor's stories that they emerge in two additional ways.

1- Structurally

Angel is the only supporting character, who gets a whole episode dedicated to himself. He is the protagonist of Masquerade's A plot, whereas Charlie gets the B plot. He steals the spotlight (LIGHT)

Alastor is a character, who is never the protagonist of an episode. He gets development through the B plots, whereas others, like Lucifer, get the A plots. He thrives in the shadows (SHADOW)

2- Through Angel and Alastor's media motifs

PORN STAR AND RADIO DEMON

Angel is an actor, whereas Alastor is a radio host. These two medias tie into both the characters' bonds and identities.

Angel - The porn star

Bonds - In porn movies, actors fake pleasure on camera. Similarly, Angel Dust only knows fake love. He is trapped in unhealthy relationships and lets others exploit him. Be them Valentino or some random dudes in a bar:

Angel Dust: You don't think I can tell if someone spikes my drink? I do this all the fuckin' time!

At the same time, Angel himself approaches everyone in an overly sexual way:

Angel Dust: No activity requires more trust than BDSM, baby. No bond stronger than those formed through bondage!

It is not by chance that he suggests to bond through bondage. It is because for him sex equals bonds. However, this approach makes so he is unable to create genuine romantic relationships.

Identity - To act means to play the part of someone you are not, which is what Angel does all the time:

Husk: I see right through you and all this bullshit and how fake you are.

He hides behind his drag queen character to protect himself:

Angel Dust: Oh, please, baby. This body was made to be exploited. I got the arms, I got the stamina, I got the legs. I got the lung capacity. Oh, I got the legs. The gag reflex, the holes, the chest fluff everyone thinks are tits.

In other words, Angel's life is made of fake relationships (porn) and of a fake self (star). This characterization is perfect for a living persona.

Alastor - The radio demon

Bonds - Alastor's radio podcast is made of the voices of his many victims:

Mimzy: No one knew what happened to 'em, until these strange radio broadcasts started going out. All you could hear were screams. Every time an overlord went missing, there'd be a new voice screaming in the broadcast! That's when Alastor revealed himself as the radio demon, and anyone that would mess with him… well, let's just say, his broadcasts never lacked new voices.

He takes others' voices and souls to grow stronger. At the same time, it is implied Alastor has also the potential to amplify one's voice. This is why he symbolically shares his staff with Charlie and helps her go through to the Cannibals:

This fits the shadow, as this part of the self is simply what a character represses, both positive and negative. Similarly, Alastor can:

Manipulate others' insecurities and take advantage of them

Help others realize their hidden potential, so they can grow

Identity - Radio stars perform only through their voices and have no need to show their face in public. In other words, this media lets people hide in shadows. Similarly, Alastor uses the radio-filter to mask his voice:

Alastor: (with absolutely no static) What just happened? notices broken microphone …fuck.

So, Alastor hides everything of himself, both positive and negative, behind a filter. That is why he is a walking shadow.

Angel and Alastor's medias are important also to explore their relationships with Valentino and Vox.

Valentino is a cinema producer and director. He frames himself as the reason of Angel's success, while profitting of the porn star's acting career (producer). At the same time, he wants to control and direct every part of Angel's life (director). He is Angel's abuser both economically and romantically.

Vox is the TV demon and Alastor's rival. In the real world TV and radio fought to affirm themselves as the preferred media and the former eventually won. Similarly, Vox and Alastor's friendship turned into animosity. In the end, Alastor disappeared and Vox took over. Vox is the future. Alastor is a "has been".

At the same time, Valentino and Vox tie into Angel and Alastor's respective archetypes. In particular:

Valentino is the shadow character that complements Angel's persona symbolism

Vox is the persona character that complements Alastor's sadow symbolism

All these ideas are conveyed by two songs.

POISON AND STAYED GONE

Poison and Stayed Gone are similar in how:

They describe Angel and Alastor's relationship with a Vee

They play with medias (cinema, radio and TV)

They use shadow/light symbolism

Poison - Love potion

Poison describes Angel's bond with Valentino through what is basically a pop music video, which starts like this:

Valentino: And… action.

This is fitting, as Valentino controls Angel from behind the scenes, both as a director (public life) and as an abuser (private life). The song itself is a mix of clips that juxtapose porns and musical routines with scenes of sexual and domestic violence. This choice emphasizes the contrast between performance and reality, as well:

On the one hand Angel happily dances on-stage, enjoys drugs and money. On the other hand he screams in agony, while scared and trapped. At the same time, the lines between appearance and truth grow blurried. Angel is supposedly just filming a porn. However, as the song progresses, the violence becomes real and he is in pain as he is recorded. In the end, it becomes difficult to differentiate what's an act from what's not. Just like Angel struggles to separate his work-life from his personal life, pain from pleasure, persona from self:

I got so good at bein' untrue I got so good at tellin' you what you wanna hear I disassociate, disappear

He is untrue because he keeps wearing a persona (mask), which is why the song is full of references to the archetype.

Both in its lyrics:

Another lover underneath those flashin' lights Another one of those ruthless nights

And in its visuals:

Before the video Angel's wounds are covered by make-up (a mask)

Angel sparkles on screen (light), while he is being dragged away by Valentino

Meanwhile Valentino is directly associated to the shadow:

He is the beast threathening Angel and using the spider demon's worst instincts against him:

Yeah, I know it's poison You're feedin' me poison I'm chokin' from the taste and I can't help but swallow Up your poison I made my choice, and Every night I'm wasted like there's no tomorrow

As a matter of fact Valentino encourages Angel's dependance on drugs to better control him. This is why "addiction" becomes a metaphor for his and Angel's relationship:

The red smoke Valentino uses to tie Angel to himself may be the secret ingredient behind the Vee's love potion.

Theirs is an abusive bond, a love potion which poisons Angel's life, but is too irresistible to escape.

Stayed Gone - Radio Killed the Video Star

Stayed Gone shows Vox and Alastor's rivalry through a duet that starts with TV:

Vox: Welcome home I'm gonna make you wish That you'd stayed gone Say hello To a new status quo Everyone knows that there's a brand new dawn Turn the TV on!

And ends with radio:

Alastor: Let's begin… I'm gonna make you wish That I'd stayed gone Tune on in When I'm done Your status quo Will know its race is run Oh, this will be fun!

An inversion of what happened in the real world, where the superior technology conquered the market. As a matter of fact Vox is supposedly the future, whereas Alastor is "old crap":

Vox: You're looking at the future! He's the shit that comes before that!

And yet, Alastor wins the confrontation. Why is that so? That has to do with Vox and Alastor's respective jungian archetypes:

Vox is the persona, as TV is a medium where you are asked to show your face on screen and to appear in the light

Alastor is the shadow, as radio is a medium that let's you hide:

While he hid in radio We pivoted to video Now his medium is getting bloody rare!

This specific juxtaposition is referenced in the title of the episode itself. As a matter of fact Radio Killed the Video Star is a joke on the famous song Video Killed the Radio Star, whose main thesis was that new technologies like TV would have conquered the show-business and forced performers to expose themselves more. Radio instead is seen as a more safe medium because a person can avoid revealing their appearance. In other words, TV is the persona medium par excellance, while radio is the perfect shadow technology. So, Vox and Alastor's musical number is built on light and shadow imagery:

Vox starts the song speaking of a brand new dawn and switching the TV on, as the room gets full of light.

Alastor ends the song transforming into his demon form and appearing as a big shadow on Vox's monitors.

Vox puts up a self-assured persona, who breaks the moment Alastor reveals the TV demon's secret:

Alastor: And here's the sugar on the cream He asked me to join his team (Vox: Hold on!) I said no, and now he's pissy, that's the tea! Vox: (glitches) You old-timey prick I'll show you suf-ffering! Alastor: Uh oh, the TV is buffering Vox: (glitches) I'll destroy yoo-o-u-u, you little—! Alastor: I'm afraid you've lost your signal

As a result, there is a black out. That is because symbolically Vox isn't able to accept his repressed emotions. So, the shadow takes over.

In other words:

Vox is the persona, the light, order and the future

Alastor is the shadow, the darkness, chaos and the past

A person can't face their future if they don't solve their past. This is true for Vox, but also for Alastor, who is clearly as angry at Vox as the Vee is at him. The difference is that ironically Vox is slightly more open about his feelings.

This is a big juxtaposition between Angel and Alastor, as well:

Poison is a song where Angel openly sings about his trauma and contradictions. It is one of the most introspective songs in the whole season 1 soundtrack.

Stayed Gone is the closest there is to an Alastor's song and yet it is not his. Vox starts the song and Alastor steals it. It is Vox who exposes himself, whereas Alastor reveals nothing.

In short, both Angel and Alastor repress themselves, but at least Angel can be honest, as he openly sings about his depression and desperation:

Poison, I'm drownin' in poison I'm fillin' up my glass but it's always hollow Full of poison, I'm sick of the poison Wish I had somethin' to live for tomorrow

Alastor instead can't be honest, even as he sings alone:

"Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends"? Sorry to disappoint… That is not where this ends!

This contrast becomes clear in the two characters' reactions to the Hazbin Hotel's Old Wise Man:

Husk: Everyone likes to bitch to the bartender. I know everything about you and these motherfuckers at this point.

YOU'RE A LOSER, BABY

Husk offers wisdom to others:

Angel Dust: Oh, I forgot. You're the wise old bartender who's seen it all.

He does so with both Angel:

Husk: Look, if you've got a problem, you're not going to find the solution at the bottom of a bottle. I should know, I've been looking there a long time.

And Alastor:

Husk: You and I both know Mimzy only shows up when she needs something. That bitch is trouble, and who knows what kind of demon she fucked with to come running to you this time?

However, the two demons react in opposite ways.

Even if initially Angel gets angry at Husk, he eventually understands he and Husk are suffering a similar fate:

Husk: I was an Overlord once, you know. Yeah, and uh… It was nice to have that power. But when you're dealing in souls while also being a gambler, the stakes are pretty high. And losing a few hands can be more than a little dangerous. So when you're down on your luck, you turn to anything to…Keep you afloat. Even making deals yourself. So I know what it's like to… Regret the choices made… And knowin' ya can't take it back.

Even if eventually Alastor follows Husk's advice about Mimzy, he refuses to accept he and Husk are just the same:

Husk: Big talk for someone who's also on a leash.

Husk challenges both Angel and Alastor with the same knowledge: everyone in Hell is a loser. Angel might be a celebrity and Alastor a powerful overlord, but both have screwed up and are paying for their mistakes. If they admit it, though, they might find someone ready to help them, even in Hell:

Angel Dust: You're a loser, baby Husk: A loser, but just maybe if we Both: Eat shit together, things will end up differently

Angel sees a mirror of himself in Husk and chooses to empathize with him:

Angel Dust: I'm a loser, honey A schmoozer and a dummy But at least I know I'm not alone Husk: You're a loser Both: Just like me

In this way, he can start accepting himself and can take off the mask suffocating him.

Alastor is confronted by his most vulnerable part in Husk and chooses to treat him cruelly:

Alastor: If you ever say that again, I will tear your soul apart and broadcast your screams for every other disrespectful wretch who dares to question me!

This means he isn't ready to integrate with his shadow. He can't face his most disliked and repressed side.

At the same time, Angel and Alastor's respective interactions with Husk highlight another foiling they have:

Angel is abused and controlled by Valentino. Alastor abuses and controls Husk. In other words Angel is a weak prey, whereas Alastor is a strong predator.

PREDATOR AND PREY

Angel is Valentino's prey, whereas Alastor is a predator of souls. This comparison can be explored in two different ways:

Angel and Alastor's foiling with respectively Vox and Valentino

Angel and Alastor's animal motifs

1 - Dark foils

Angel's conflict is with Valentino and Alastor's is with Vox. However, Angel foils Vox, whereas Alastor foils Valentino. As a matter of fact Angel and Vox are both self-made preys, while Alastor and Valentino are both wannabe predators.

Now, prey might be a little too strong for Vox. Still, what I mean is that both Angel and him are trapped in abusive relationships with Valentino. Sure, Angel's one is particularly bad because the difference in power is bigger:

Valentino: You think she can get you out of work? You know she can't do anything. I own you. Or have you forgotten that?

Angel is not only Valentino's romantic interest, but also his employee. Valentino literally owns Angel's soul and can do with him what he pleases.

Vox and Valentino are instead more or less on pair. However, there are hints about their bond being unhealthy:

Vox: 'Oh god. Here I go, Valentino.' Just another fucking day with Val. Hey-hey-hey. Fuck my life.

The Vees' introduction has Valentino violently lashing out and Vox being forced to deal with him. It is obvious their partnership has toxic undertones.

In short, Angel and Vox are sexually and romantically tied to Valentino, but deep down dislike him. And yet, they don't leave him. This happens because both have frail identities they mask with happy and self-assured personas.

So, Angel acts proud of his porn movies, but deep down he is unsure of who he is and believes he isn't strong enough to change:

Valentino: You actually think you can change? Addict trash like you doesn't change. I'll see you soon, baby.

Vox instead behaves as a successful businessman, but he is actually scared he would be nobody without his alliance with Valentino and Velvette:

Alastor: Is Vox as strong as he purports? Or is it based on his support? He'd be powerless without the other Vees!

Angel thinks he can't leave and Vox chooses not too. Still, both are limited by weak senses of self. They force themselves to play the prey.

When it comes to Alastor and Valentino, both are predators of souls. They prey on weaker demons, like Angel and Husk, but they also try to make contracts with stronger beings.

This is shown by the way they interact with Charlie:

Charlie: I'm taking your offer to help. On the condition that there be no… tricks or voodoo strings attached. Alastor: So, it's a deal, then? Charlie: Nope! No shaking! No deals! I… hmm… As princess of Hell and heir to the throne, I, uh, hereby order that you help with this hotel. For as long as you desire.

Valentino: Welcome to my humble sex dungeon. What can I do for such a-- Mm! Lovely specimen! You don't want a role, do you? Because I can make you a star, make us both richer than, well, your papito--

They meet the Princess of Hell and offer to enter partnerships with her, so that they can use her. Obviously Alastor is intended as a gray character, while Valentino as a pitch black one. However, they are pretty similar in how they manipulate others:

Charlie: How? I'll do anything. Alastor: Anything? Then… let's make a deal.

Valentino: Put something inside them. That's how I get the bitches to behave.

Alastor takes advantage of Charlie's self-hate and desperation to force her into a pact. Valentino uses drugs to make his employees dependant on him. And yet, they are both far from unstoppable.

Vox: Heh. What are you doing, Val? You're not going over there. Valentino: That slippery twink is gonna remember who owns him. I'm gonna FUCK everyone in that rancid shit hole, I swear to god! Vox: VAL- Hehe. Think about it.

Alastor: it's nothing I can't handle. Don't worry Husker. Who in their right mind would cross me? Husk: I mean, you've been gone a while, and it's not like anybody knows why.

Valentino is impulsive and leaves obvious loopholes in his contracts. Alastor is smarter, but he is not as feared or as strong as he would desire. They like the feeling of power, but their control over others is not as firm. A moment may be all it takes for them to become preys. They give in to violence and behave like beasts because they wanna make sure they stay predators.

Vox and Val are darker versions of Angel and Alastor. They are who the two hazbins might become if they don't fix their flaws:

Vox is a person who chooses to appear strong (persona) over being happy

Val is a slave of his worst instincts (shadow) and has no genuine relationship whatsoever

At the same time, it is clear the dychotomy between prey and predator isn't as cut and dry.

2- Spider and Deer

Angel is a prey and Alastor is a predator. And yet, their animal motifs say otherwise:

Angel is a spider, a predator.

Alastor is a deer, a prey.

Why is that so?

That is because Angel is repressing his most powerful and aggressive side. Alastor instead is hiding his most frail and vulnerable part.

Angel comes from an influent criminal family to the point that his spider motif alludes to their wide web of criminal activities. As a result, he lives a violent life, but chooses to distance himself from it in Hell. According to Word of God, he decides to leave violence and fighting (Anthony) behind to explore sexuality and love (Angel Dust). However, the end result is that he is now trapped in a different way. As a human, he is forced to cultivate his most masculine traits. As a demon, he is valued only for his feminine ones. So, Angel is a porn star, who hides a strong fighter:

Angel Dust: Eat lead, sucka!! I told ya. I can handle myself baby. Angel pulls out 5 extra guns and begins fighting the rest of the demons with Husk tuntil all the shark demons are reduced to blood and guts. Husk: Well, that was something I didn't expect to see. Angel Dust: Like I said, you don't know me. Sex ain't the only thing I'm good at. Husk: Good to know, cause this guy ain't that bad.

He is a spider tired of his own web, who ends up prisoner of a moth. The challenge is for him to reconcile his two sides (masculine and feminine) and to find people who accept him as a whole person. He must forge a brand new web of healthy and supportive bonds.

Alastor is a radio host and a serial killer who buries his victims in a hunting ground only to be mistaken for a deer and killed. In Hell he chooses to live as he did on Earth to the point he doesn't even change his name. He keeps being both a radio host and a serial killer. He simply fuses his two sides and becomes the Radio Demon. And yet, he is just repeating the same pattern, where he goes from predator (serial killer) to prey (deer). So, he is an overlord preying on overlords, that ends up on the receiving end of a detrimental pact. Symbolically, he hates this part of himself so much that he committs "cannibalism":

He is a deer who eats deers because he can't phatom he might end up on the plate himself. He needs to feel a predator no matter what. And yet, he is a prey deep down and if he could just admit it and ask for help he might change his situation. If he accepted to step into the light and open up he might grow stronger. And yet, he is too proud and too scared. A deer frightened and confused by the headlights, who prefers to hide in shadows, where he feels safe and untouchable.

So, Angel is a prey who hides a predator, while Alastor is a predator who hides a prey. Throughout the season, these repressed parts start emerging.

Positively for Angel:

Angel Dust: Fuck off, Val. Valentino: Excuse me? Angel Dust: I said fuck off! I may have to put up with your bullshit, but you ain't fuckin' with any of my friends! Valentino: You forget who you're talking to? I own you, bitch. Angel Dust: Yeah, you do, in the studio. And you can do anything you want to me there, just like our deal says. But out here, I get to do what I want. So once again, FUCK. OFF.

He manages to slowly free himself of Val's toxic influence and by the end he stands up to his abuser. The spider is growing stronger and soon the moth won't be a problem.

Negatively for Alastor:

Adam: I'm going to wipe that shit-eating grin off your face, CAUSE RADIO IS FUCKING DEAD! Adam flies a few metres into the air and swings his guitar, sending a shockwave towards Alastor. When it dissipates, Alastor has been forced out of his full demon form and his microphone has been snapped in two.

He slowly loses control of his situation to the point that by the end he miscalculates so badly he is almost killed by Adam. The deer can smile as much as he wants, but in the end he can't escape stronger animals.

SAME PROBLEM, OPPOSITE RESOLUTIONS

Angel and Alastor share the same issue. They both can't accept themselves. However, throughout the season their stories go in opposite directions.

Angel makes progress in self-acceptance, so he can start cracking his persona:

Husk: Last day of afterlife, and you're not off snorting a line off some hunk's abs? Angel Dust: Eh, you fucked one cannibal pool boy, you fucked 'em all. Husk: I guess you have changed. Angel Dust: Hey, Charlie said live tonight however we wanted… so pour me a fresh one, and let's get to living!

Alastor refuses to face who he is, so he gets engulfed by the shadow:

It will be interesting to see how their parallel arcs will keep on going in future seasons, how their intertwined conflict and foiling with the Vees will evolve and which role they will have in Charlie's story.

FOUND FAMILY

Angel and Alastor are the first two demons to join the Hazbin Hotel and they grow into members of Charlie's found family:

Alastor: They say the family you choose is better!

In particular:

Angel is set-up to become a sibling-like figure (he clearly projects his feelings for Molly on Charlie)

Alastor is framed as an evil mentor and a parental figure (his foiling with Lucifer makes it obvious)

At the same time, they are meant to challenge Charlie in different ways:

Angel is a protector (angel), who forces Charlie to deal with her pollyanna persona

Alastor is a dangerous manipulator (devil), who has Charlie deal with her repressed shadow

This is made clear in the episodes Masquerade and Hello Rosie:

Charlie: Okay… I could be so aggressively kind to Angel's boss… That I convince him to let Angel spend more time at the hotel!

In Masquerade Charlie is confronted by Vaggie about how much she repressed her aggressivity. For Angel's sake then Charlie tries to wear an "aggressively kind" persona, but it feels fake and it leads to a mess.

Charlie: flips Susan off FUCK YOU, YOU OLD BITCH!!!!!

In Hello Rosie Charlie is overcome by her negative feelings to the point she gives in to Alastor's request to make a deal. However, as the episode goes on, she manages to face her inner emotions and to grow more decisive:

Charlie: It's a feeling like a rumbling in your gut That you could finally be faced with A billion needy faces, I guess what I mean to say is For the first time in my life I might have to be ready for this Ready to be the one who's leading from the front Gotta come into my own Gotta come into my throne Gotta take charge and defend my only home And although I kinda feel unsteady Now I need to be ready for this

In short, Charlie herself wears a persona and has a strong repressed shadow. Angel and Alastor are the two characters who will help her face these parts of herself, so that she can grow into a powerful Ruler of Hell.