#no bc the whole age discourse is so stupid

[starlooove]

No bc how do u simultaneously ship chaipunk and chaiflower but then turn around and have an issue with punkflower bc of ages YOU MADE UP like

[raayllum]

how are you a teacher and shipping a literal child with an 18 year old💀

i'm a tutor with an honours specialization in how fiction influences and/or is influenced by reality. i also work with students across all grade levels, even into university ages/adulthood. you're bringing up talking points from plato's republic that aristotle knew was stupid 3000+ years ago. i've written papers & studied this exact same line of discourse across the western canon of like, 800 years? but have fun playing into far right bullshit and book banning that just repeats over and over again, the literal conservative puritans were having these moral panics too <;3 totally not protestant conservatism with a gay hat

& that's cause i'm not shipping a literal child with an 18 year old (which btw 18 yr olds are not magically emotionally mature fully grown adults either even if they legally are adults, i say as someone who was a teenager just four years ago). i'm shipping two characters with an age gap when they're both fully grown adults in their 20s. if you think characters are for some reason Frozen at a certain age and can never be aged up when they're from an IP property you don't own, and that authors can only explore characters at different life stages when they're characters the author owns, you inherently don't understand the transformative part of fandom / transformative fiction

like hi, was a literal minor like 4 years ago who was harassed throughout my teen years by people just like you because i shipped two (2) things with a 4 year age gap, but no i'm sure calling a 16 yr old a pedophile in the name of "protecting children" (when no one online is entitled to anyone's personal private information, nvm their history with csa) was totally worth it

if you've ever enjoyed or read literally anything adjacent to greek myth or the fucking bible, you've enjoyed texts with a whole lot of fucked up shit in it, of which age gaps are the least of their 'problems'. come back to me when you've read "wuthering heights" or some actual fucked up shit

and update bc anon came back and Really thought they were doing something: wuthering heights doesn't have an age gap at all. the two leads are the same age and are fucked up for so many other reasons. plato's republic is a philosophical musing manual on where art fits into society and how it should manifest / what its purpose is. but thank you for failing critical thinking so hard you couldn't even google something for 2 seconds to make sure your argument was sound At All

[beanghostprincess]

that pudding card is GORGEOUS i love her so much she doesn't deserve to be a part of op discourse leave my girl alone she just needs love

Pudding is such a complex character! I love her so so much! She really means the world to me. Honestly, her whole story is completely relatable and the fact that it's basically used to parallel Sanji's doesn't help. It just makes everything hurt more. I could talk about her for hours and how misinterpreted her character is due to fandom discourse and the recent wave of "puritanism" within the internet.

I'm not gonna get too into fandom discourse because I hate it and I already have horrible experiences about it in this fandom (with Lawlu, specifically), but... I find it stupid. Her character has so many layers. She's just as complex and traumatized as Sanji. That's... That's quite the whole point? She made mistakes and has mixed feelings and different types of personalities due to her past and trauma responses. She made mistakes. Sanji made mistakes too. The only damn reason why people don't forgive her is because "she hurt our little meow meow <//3 She's so evil!!! Evil woman!!!" as if they wouldn't forgive her character right away if she were a MAN. Like. Misogyny who??

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious people don't like Pudding because of obvious misogyny and overprotection of Sanji. Which is understandable because I'm also very intense when it comes to him, but damn... He would not like it if he knew y'all hate her for her mistakes.

Also, people only talk about her to say "she's a great character but her age gap with Sanj-" why does it always have to be about Sanji? Let the girl be her own character. Have you hear of the Bechdel test? No? Perhaps you could try it? Her character is obviously created for Sanji, but she's so much more! Let her escape!!! From the hands of patriarchy and men!! That being said, the whole discourse about their age gap is... Just... So fucking stupid.

Don't go cancelling me right away. I'm just saying that when it comes to stuff like age Oda doesn't seem to be very... Consistent? He's made mistakes before. And the Charlottes are a very huge family. I'm sure not even Oda knows the order of these children, lmfao. I think he would only say shit like "Katakuri is one of the oldest and Pudding is one of the youngest idk. Just made her one of the youngest to match Sanji's backstory of being one of the youngest". But leaving that aside-- Maturity never equals age in a show that's... About pirates... Where everyone has different experiences with different social surroundings... It's just like the Lawlu discourse, damn. You have to know the characters before saying crazy stuff like "Law would groom Luffy" because HOW??? HOW WOULD HE DO THAT??? That's basically impossible. And you need to think about the characters before assuming things. And Sanji and Pudding? Leaving aside the age difference, Pudding has more power over Sanji and that's noticeable. Does that even matter tho? They understand each other on the same level after all in the end. Tbh I couldn't tell about the age difference. I thought they were the same age ngl. Only found out bc I saw the discourse going on and my first reaction was "This is fucking dumb". Tbh their relationship is one of the healthiest I've ever seen for Sanji. We see him being himself for once without being extremely creepy. The whole arc about him losing himself is about a girl loving him for who he truly is. And the whole arc about a girl being judged for being different is about a boy loving her for who she truly is. It's so beautiful!!!

Anyway. Not the point. The thing is that people hate Pudding for... Absolutely nothing? Not knowing how to read complex characters? I still don't get it. Perhaps it's just that my mommy issues are too harsh and I can see through her but damn.

Ana also the whole thing about erasing Sanji's memories? People hate her for that and calling her... Selfish??? Did you not... Watch the scene... Of her crying because she lost the only person she has ever truly loved. But whatever. Call her selfish.

[bylertruther]

no cause the last anón is so right. I scrapped a 50k byler fic because I actually got worried people might call me weird or a freak like they do others. I was on twitter when the whole fiasco went down and it pissed me off but if you even tried to speak there were so many accounts saying you were “speaking over minors” and calling you a predator/pedophile. So many of my moots deactivated bc of the hate- they eventually started attacking people for their ages alone saying it was weird that 20 year olds theorized and talked about byler. Literally word for word “you’re a freak if you’re 20 and read byler fics. Why are you fantasizing about two little 14 year old boys making out” if they would take a step back and think that maybe people are so interested in this relationship is bc they see their younger selves in these two characters then maybe they wouldn’t say such stupid shit. Anyway sorry for ranting I just have been fuming since that whole thing happened. I just wish they would take a step back and stop and think about why they see a kiss between two boys written and immediately shout creep.

oh no, anon! i'm so sorry to hear about your fic & your experience. i hope you feel comfortable enough to post it one day, if you still want to. 🥺 and don't ever apologize for expressing yourself!

not to be a cunt, but i am a cunt, so, ahem. from the bottom of my heart... fuck them kids. 🫶 i literally do not give a single shit about any of the ""discourse"" they inflict on us all. "speaking over minors" why are you even speaking to begin with, huh? 🤨 why are you buzzing into an adult's space and picking a fight when a) literally no one fucking asked you to, and b) you're just going to cry "waaaaah but i'm a minorrr :(" as if you're somehow the victim in this situation after they dare to defend themselves against your serious and unsupported allegations? be normal or piss the fuck off and do your homework.

and why do people take them seriously? disregarding the fact that anyone of any age can be a shipper & the awful homophobia laced in such rhetoric...

this is the internet. no one owes you shit & the wild web will never, ever cater to you. you need to curate your own space and protect yourself. this is, like.. basic shit. like, bare-fucking-bones basic shit. it's not anyone else's responsibility but your own. they taught me that in school, my parents told me that, and also i have a functioning brain that can come to that conclusion, too. people need to stop pretending like what these people are asking for—which is your silence and your shame—is reasonable. it's not. content gets tagged, there are multiple extensions to blacklist any tags you don't like, some of it gets put behind a privacy wall, block buttons exist, many websites have filtering options, and so on and so forth. there are multiple measures people can take to both find things and avoid them. and a lot of the time, content is something you have to seek out yourself. so, if you don't like it, why did you click on it? why spend any time on it when you could've just backspaced? how is your ineptitude anyone else's problem?

also, people need to stop throwing the words pedophilia, pedophile, and predator around. you're being an insensitive jackass when you do that. someone writing about two fictional characters is not abusive scum of the fucking earth. you're watering those acts down and showcasing your ignorance for the world to see when you throw their names around carelessly. a child predator does awful, sinister, repulsive things to real life people who did not deserve that. someone writing a first kiss or practice kissing fic is not anywhere near that and i'm tired of people pretending like this is an okay thing to say or even think. just shut the fuck up and stop saying those words if you don't actually understand the gravity of what they mean.

another thing: a lot of these people aren't just kids. grown folk fall for the same shitty rhetoric, too. it's all just groupthink and herd mentality. no one wants to get attacked so they just repeat the same shit without thinking about it beyond "protecting" themselves (which is senseless as well because conditional acceptance is not true acceptance, but i digress). this fandom would be in a much better place if people were willing to stand their ground and defend their friends when this stuff happens. it gets worse and worse if you just turn a blind eye to it and fall in line. we're all waking up and finally seeing the consequences of that now.

of course, this doesn't really apply to when you're getting attacked by hundreds of people. that's... just shitty and hard and demoralizing. i'm not victim-blaming, because no one wants to be on the receiving end of that and i know that you can't control what others do.

my argument is that it gets to that point because the fandom as a whole just lets it slide by never holding the right people accountable for their actions. they allow the needless bullying to happen. they allow the rhetoric to get crazier and crazier. they allow people to get fucking crucified for shit that isn't even remotely inappropriate. they reblog posts they don't believe in because they don't want to be the odd one out and get accused of something by someone with more followers than them. it's just... we, as a whole, need to support each other more and put our foot down when shit like that starts happening.

it isn't normal. it isn't okay. it hasn't ever been okay.

like... i KNOW that you KNOW that it isn't weird for them to kiss, for people to want them to kiss, or for people to make them kiss in their creations. i KNOW that you KNOW that it isn't weird for anyone of any age to enjoy a love story of any kind. we know these things. some of us just pretend like we don't online for whatever fucking reason. and i don't get it! i don't get why they would do that and willingly allow this place to become worse for it. you don't get anything good out of that.

also, a lot of those people are being trolls. they get a kick out of attacking people as a group, because that's the only time they feel brave and the only way they get attention in life. they don't think before they say things, because they don't see you as a human being—you're just pixels on a greasy screen. they use catchy social justice lingo to make what they're saying sound like something you should support, but at the end of the day, they're literally just gussying up the same right-wing shit we've been subjected to for ages. it's regressive rhetoric that's clear to see once you've allowed yourself to see it.

like, i agree with you. i do. you're absolutely, undoubtedly right in what you say, but... i just can't bring myself to argue that, because it's in response to what was a senseless attack to begin with. and we shouldn't need to defend ourselves and our communities against what isn't true.

homophobia, bullying, and trolling are irrational, illogical pursuits and i can't stand the idea of treating them with any ounce of seriousness in this context. to apologize would be to accept their absurdity and validate their accusations—accusations we know in our heart of hearts to be incorrect and baseless. and i won't ever do that! i won't give them that satisfaction and i wish others wouldn't either.

they keep doing this, because they haven't met any opposition yet, because we keep acting like we have any reason at all to feel shame for wanting stories about people like us, about something as basic and universal as love and connection. they don't care about our reasons. they don't care about our defense of ourselves. it's not ever about us. this is their cry for attention, good or bad, at our expense and they need to be starved out already.

like.. this is just unsustainable. it's mind-boggling and i remember kicking and screaming about it months ago in what felt like an empty room. and look at where we are now! we're already at the point where you can't win in any kind of way no matter what you do. you can't age them up, you can't leave them as they are, you can't ship them if you're older than eighteen, you can't write AUs, you can't write canon compliance, you can't write canon divergence, you can't make them kiss, you can't make them anything more than friends but you also can't make them not-friends, etc etc. we've officially been shoved into the "fuck it, we ball" stage, because this is a pissy fandom and you are never going to please everyone so you may as well just do whatever the fuck you want.

i sound soooooooo unbearably preachy in this response lol, but like... literally... all we have is each other! we all love byler and we're all here to have fun and find like-minded people. we can't keep acting like this in-fighting lunacy is reasonable and just a difference of opinion, or like it's based in any kind of sense at all. we know that it's okay to ship byler at any age. we know that it's okay to have fun and enjoy ourselves. these people want to make us feel bad. they want to silence us. why let them and give them that satisfaction? why is what they want more important than us and our happiness? i hate the idea of anyone ever feeling any kind of shame or fear over something as innocent as this. i hate the idea of them winning by getting into any of our heads like that. i just hate it.

now, this last bit is specifically for you, anon, but it goes for everyone else, too: please, please, please, i am holding your hand in both of mine and begging you to not let anyone take away the things that you love and bring you joy or your wonderful creations that you've put so much of yourself into. i promise you that there will always be people who will see you, understand you, and cherish what you have to offer, and they are the ones that matter most (after you of course hehe). we all have to find our people and just go crazy together and block out everything else. that's the only way to get through this without getting burnt out. 💛💙

[songmingisthighs]

Personally I don't take the topic of cp as something light, or 'just anime' if it were to be portrayed in Mia, which I also have no idea if it does

From what I've read, the anime could be heavily sensored in Korea, all the while it has received awards and just being really popular in general (? And about the Manga, there's also this discourse about it being super sensored as well, while other people say it is 10x worse than the anime, so I really don't know what to believe

Regardless of that, it is difficult for me to be certain of what mingi was trying to say, I'm pretty sure the video was muted right before and after the anime was mentioned, so there are a lot of possibilities, whether he actually liked it or not, if he gave that warning about it having sensitive issues, if he actually recommended watching it or avoiding it, I have no idea

So yeah, the level of sensorship is a great deal for me, idk to what extent it has been 'proved' that he's innocent and all that, so I'm gonna trust that he didn't actually recommend it, but the thought alone of him consuming/recommending something related to cp is most definitely a deal breaker, not 'just anime' for me, obviously nothing has been confirmed, I really really don't imagine him as that type of person, and I'm not as stupid or immature to go around sending hate to him or directly unstan him without having proof or a clear sense of what really happened.

I just hope things get cleared up, for the people that go around sending hate and death threats to get a grip of reality, and for anyone that could have been affected by this topic (or the possibility of mingi being involved in it) to feel better and at peace

Also English Is not my first language, so bear with me while I try to see if this is actually understandable

this is gonna be long and somewhat controversial and mean, so if you (people in general) are a snowflake, pls skip

i get what you mean, really and i don't think anyone should take cp lightly as well. but i also think you shouldn't open a discussion about a topic you are not familiar about when you already decide to form a negative opinion on it. It's a whole other story had you come to me or anyone to actually ask for opinion in a way that is neutral. this is kinda hard for me to explain with words but there is a difference between "hey what's your opinion about this?" and "hey what's your opinion about this? also i think it supports cp and no one should take that lightly" bc it sets bias and when you want to make a painting of a fruit bowl, you wouldn't use a canvas with a big red splotch anywhere on it

from my perspective, you claim to not have animosity towards the anime but the way you describe it, it seems like you do so i guess it would've been better for you to accept that you're leaning more towards rejecting the anime because of what you found out about online and not because you do have personal experience wirh it when you come to ask for someone's opinion. bc it kinda comes off as "what do you think of this? fyi, i have the answer" and i just don't vibe with that. "from what i read online" is also not something anyone should use to justify their stance because if you don't have what i loosely say "personal experience" with it (i.e. you forming your own opinion based on your own interaction), this kind of discussion seem to be counterproductive.

and i find it odd that people are so surprised that anime is so sexual in either ends of the good and bad spectrum as if japan is not known for its main commodity which is porn (again, i'm using this sentence loosely). like i just found out earlier that japan's age of consent was 13 before it was changed to 16 so the sexualization of a western-standardized "minor" is part of a culture there (as bad as this sound). so to use a western standard on a culture that didn't ask for it seem mighty hoity-toity. we're allowed to form an opinion about a culture or an aspect of the culture but what we shouldn't do is act as if that culture is so personal to us when we are not a part of the culture. like i think the bride kidnapping practice is so weird and borderline a test run for a human trafficking ploy but i have yet to see any criminal activities that happen and the people who are involved are well aware of this practice so i can say it's weird but i won't put up a petition to abolish the practice. now i do realize that this is a rather controversial take and i would elaborate here but alas that's a whole other ted talk

in regards of mingi, if you (not you personally, i'm using 'you' in general) think your favourite idols can wear whatever the fuck they want, do whatever the fuck they want, i suggest you make peace that they can interact with any kinds of art or artist and form whatever opinion they want. because if you believe they're their own person, you better mean it and not make exceptions on situations or aspects that you don't agree with. if you can't support the person, support the art, if this makes you uncomfortable, fucking leave the fandom g0rl no one should readjust their whole life, personality, choices, and preferences to accommodate you. you're not the damn law and he doesn't even know you. and to the people who are somehow "affected" by mingi's life choices or preferences, literally get yourself out of the possibility of interacting with the topic and to those who made this issue about them, remember that the world doesn't revolve around you so mingi didn't do this to hurt you, you're hurt because you have personal feelings over this issue and it's not wrong but if you make it your life's mission to end this man's career, literally get off social media and get a hobby

[crappy-homestuck-confessions]

When it comes to Vriska "hate" and discourse, I can't help but feel quite a bit shaken up. Gamzee, who was mind controlled and influenced by an immortal buff green skeleton demon into doing what he did, someone who is incredibly malleable and easy to shape into a pawn, specially after he was given absolutely nothing to latch onto with his religious beliefs deconstructed and absolutely no purpose in life, is treated like he deserves to be stomped into the ground for the shitty things he did in acts 5 & 6, meanwhile Vriska who CHOSE to do the things she did, wasn't mind controlled, yes influenced but not mind controlled, is let off the hook and treated like she deserves to be forgiven and have her actions look past.

The thing about Vriska is yes, she DID become the way she is due to the environment she was raised in and a bit of influence from Scratch, but she CHOSE to do what she did, she omitted details to June in order to give herself a better look, and while I don't TOTALLY doubt she genuinely feels bad for what she did, she kinda skips the detail of her ensuring Bec Noir's existence by ensuring Bec is created in the first place. Why did she do this? Because she has a fucking complex. Instead of making up for what she did by being a better person, she tried to make up for the shitty things she did by creating a monster that threatens the lives of everyone around her, so she could kill said monster and "fix" everything she did. She's a villain who desperately wants to be a hero and takes things way out of proportion. And the end to her arc in act 5 was perfect, she was a well written character, a pretty good antagonist with a hint of tragedy and a fuckton of personality, the consequences of her actions caught up to her in both timelines, one being killed by one of the people she's deeply wronged, and another being shown that her whole plan of forcing a situation where she's the hero was stupid and she was painfully shown that by Jack rejecting her challenge and doing what Terezi said he'd do, blow up the meteor and kill everyone on it, bringing two of the trolls to Vriska to further hammer it home.

She was a bad person who definitely had a reason to end up the way she did who ended up paying for the things she did, she served the story well as an antagonist and was enjoyable while she was onscreen (except the ableism. That part wasn't fun.)

... And then act 6 ruins that! She's revived and SUDDENLY she's amazing at planning, everything she does goes right, and she's never in the wrong, and she gets to be a hero like she always wanted to. This makes NO SENSE, she's suddenly amazing at making plans even though during act 5 every single plan she made blew up in her face, she fixes everything going on in the meteor like she's a master psychologist and relationship fixer even though she's barely got anything together on her own, and overall she's handled horribly. This is why I have a problem with people excusing Vriska's actions with act 6, bc what she does makes NO sense and is just Hussie being fucking weird about Vriska bc she's his pet favorite character that never does anything wrong.

I mentioned Gamzee earlier and part of the reason this all annoys me so much is Vriska stans keep bringing up her past to justify the way she is, while stomping the poor clown into the ground and treating him like he's always been a horrible person, even though before the Meteor Murder Incident he had never been implied to kill anyone or be violent at all, in fact he was just a religious stoner that wanted the best for his friends, until he had his faith ripped away from him by accident and then stumbled upon a puppet that's LITERALLY KNOWN AND STATED TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE PEOPLE'S PERSONALITY AND MORALITY ON AN INHERENT LEVEL. HE'S MIND CONTROLLED. BY LORD ENGLISH. but do you see anyone waxing poetic about him because of that? Because he's a victim of circumstance that did horrible things as a result? No!!!!! He's just dunked on over and over again specially the longer the story goes on, culminating in his PQ route where they just go "haha murder clown" EVEN THOUGH THAT'S COMPLETELY ASININE AND HE NEVER DISPLAYED ANY OF THOSE TENDENCIES PREVIOUS TO BEING INFLUENCED BY LORD ENGLISH. I'm not saying what he did was JUSTIFIED, no, god no, but the Gamzee we knew from before and during Sgrub is long gone, and in his place is just another pawn to LE like Scratch, Kurloz and Bro. He COULD have ended up better had he not been mind controlled and gotten to improve his mental foundation, same way Vriska could have ended up a good person had she not grown up as a blueblood with a shitty lusus, but does anyone care? NO! NO ONE DOES! BECAUSE IT'S NOT VRISKA!

Again, to clarify, they're BOTH good characters previous to Act 6, the downhill trend comes in at Game Over, they're both well written and have depth, I DON'T HATE VRISKA, it just severely annoys me seeing what kind of severe double standards this fandom has.

And to cap this off, I'm a polyamorous bi trans woman. So don't you fucking bring the whole "people hate Vriska because she's a woman" shit here.

This was very very long and I'm sorry for that but I HAVE to let this off my chest.

.

[0junemeatcleaver0]

You know what really chaps my ass?

The fact that people are equating people who ship Armand/Marius with literal pedophiles are about to potentially put a lot of young people at risk.

Like, you can hate the ship with your whole heart, that's fine. But to conflate shipping fictional characters with real life abuse sets a dangerous precedent (period, but let me get granular) in a fandom that's about to have a potentially massive influx of people.

Because that type of rhetoric muddies the water. And actual predators love murky waters. It's a safe place to hide.

We're gonna have a whole slew of people coming into this fandom. They'll be of all stripes. All backgrounds, ages, and intentions flocking to places where fandom thrives bc of this shiny new TV show.

And I'm hoping like hell there wont be any actual predators among that group mixed in with the teens that will also surely come, too.

A) because that's already scary enough but also

B) because of the rabid antis in the VC fandom (of all fucking places somehow) if this fear becomes a reality and I see a call out post on how so-and-so is a dangerous pedophile, I'm now more likely to ignore it. Especially if the call out post begins with some diatribe about shipping (as a lot of call outs seem to do these days) before it gets to recipts of the actually harmful behavior of grooming--because I wouldn't have gotten that far in reading, having thought it was just another stupid post by someone who has never heard of Kink Tomato.

And I'm sure I won't be the only one!!!

I'm sure plenty of us will have the same response and just block/scroll. Because the discourse on shipping is now so poisonous that we'll just think that ships are getting called out or someone is using the word 'groomer' to mean 'an armand/Marius shipper publicly interacted with a minor in a totally normal way'

That's dangerous.

I hate that I have to preface this next bit by swearing up and down that I'm not trying to be an asshole by saying this, but:

If you're out here calling people who ship this pairing pedos, you're actively putting children at potential risk for the reasons I listed above.

Hate any ship as much as you want. Block those tags. Block the shippers. Do what you must to keep yourself happy. But stop throwing around baseless accusations because that shit has the potential for real world harm being done to actual living, breathing children.

[selfshipseaside]

omg i totally agree with the “dnis are just a way of trying to prove you arent a bad person” thing (DEFINITELY not the exact quote sorry lol) and thats definitely the reason why i dont have one… theyre just so stupid to me :P like whats stopping someone from just. lying to you yknow? i just block and move on… but also i have this irrational fear that bc i DONT have a dni ppl will assume the worst of me… its really silly… and dumb… and i dont really believe it but it does scare me!!! also considering the fact i have a bit of a problematic f/o im terrified every day that bc i dont explicitly say in every post of mine that I DONT CONDONE ANY OF THEIR ACTIONSSSSSSSS that someones gonna come in my inbox and tell me im the scum of the earth for shipping with them 😭 they arent even THAT bad. kind of went on a tangent a bit there but i compleeeeeetely agree dnis are SO performative !!! i think all discourse labels are performative honestly liek. i dont know. i just think its all really stupid and im just like you i choose not to associate myself or my blogs with shipping discourse… of course i have opinions but i think my followers and mutuals know what to expect from me… i really went on a tangent here 😭😭 sorry… you can ignore this i wont mind :P i hope youre having a lovely day/night :)

I completely understand! The age-old rule of don't trust strangers on the internet, unsurprisingly, still applies today! People can lie, even if they're a "good person". People can tell the truth and seem completely unproblematic, even if they're a "bad person". We simply do not know anyone's true self or intentions. We cannot know those things by simply sharing fictional people and gushing over them or telling people who we do or don't want interacting. It's not that simple. People will tell you who they are, and sure, believe them. But know that their actions will speak louder, surely. Being performative is a huge issue in our community, and people who genuinely are affected by performative activism and this whole new genre of being a "good" person...it's impossible. There's far more nuance in these social inter-community spaces and issues than anyone wants to admit. But you see, being a "good person" should be second nature right? That's what everyone wants to say. But, that's incorrect. We all go through enough turmoil as it is, and we have to continue to be as good as we can despite that. It's easy to be an asshole. That's why we have the problems in this community that we do, because simple respect and being kind is more expensive than it ever has been. Out-casting people and finding identity in hatred is the new gig, apparently. Often times, we are not what we believe in, we are what we do. If you believe in protecting children, and then go and tell a child to off themselves...well that's just plain ol' hypocrisy. Anon, you're really cool in my mind! You and your f/o are extremely valid! Keep on shipping! Problematic f/os are cool, and I think it's safe to say that most of us with problematic f/os don't condone their actions. Hopefully, at least.

[thewintersoldierdisaster]

the eddissy age gap discourse is literally so fucking stupid.

1. the duffers are like notoriously bad with minor continuity so you can’t look at the ages on chrissy’s file or eddie’s missing poster as proof bc they LITERALLY make no sense

2. why is chrissy wearing an ‘86 necklace if that’s not the year she’s graduating (which most people do at 17-18 if they don’t skip grades, which is not the case for chrissy) she’s not a 16 year old senior, it doesn’t make sense even if she’s a june birthday. i am a june birthday and i was 17 for the entirety of my senior year and turned 18 like three days before graduation.

3. eddie was held back twice, we don’t know his birthday, so he’s 19-20 based on the fact that he would’ve been 17-18 when he was a senior and originally supposed to graduate

4. they went to middle school together. the standard for middle school is grades 6-8, so chrissy was likely in 6th grade and eddie was in 8th for the talent show. they’re two grades apart.

use some context clues here people and don’t deem a ‘ship you don’t like as “problematic” because you decided to ignore common sense and make it into a whole production so you can ship steddie and claim that’s less problematic. ship and let ship 🤷🏼‍♀️

[night-dark-woods]

8, 11, 16!

thank uuu!!!

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

hmmm i am drawing a blank on the strictly opinion front bc i follow people with good opinions in most fandoms im in so its like occasional distant shark fins of discourse not opinions i hear all the time, but. this is kind of similar to tropes i guess BUT i hate when people categorize any kind of rivalry or animosity into enemies-to-lovers. if youre calling it that they better be enemies i need bloodshed i need betrayal i need hurt i need lives to have been threatened i need actual history to overcome!!! if their conflict has the emotional stakes of competing for the same parking spot at work (random example not actual one ive seen lol) that doesnt count!!!

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered

i went to check and honestly way fewer than i thought??? besides ones i filtered one-time When a new season or something came out & then never see anyway so never un-filtered: good omens, ofmd, taylor swift (sorry lol), spn/supernatural, harry styles. no screenshot b/c theres other non-fandom stuff filtered amongst those lol.

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

GOD. tie between soulmate aus and highschool aus.

soulmates: why. that post thats like "soulmates are stupid i love you on purpose" has it so so so right. the idea that there is oneee person you are fated to be with your whole life is so claustrophobic and deterministic. nightmare.

highschool: talking abt what characters would have been like in HS is funny but if ur writing a whole fic of it and its explicit??? why are you DE-AGING actual adults to make them fuck as teenagers. why are you writing this. college aus are on thinnn fucking ice tbh as i get older and older!!!

[icharchivist]

eh, 7-8 years is manageable. i mean consider this, aglovale is really hot. also theyre both over 18 so its not that severe imo. theyre two consenting adults being entrenched in psycho mindgames together.

oh yeah definitely manageable (this is still less than the gap between my parents lmao)

honestly i'm just more worried about people projecting dynamics they don't have on them because of the agegap (because i'm never forgiving you fuckers on tumblr for the "Hannibal and Will are unhealthy because they have a ten years age gap :///" wow you mean the age gap is the problem and not the cannibalism and manipulation? your wisdom knows no bound /s) (i don't go there i just think it was the buckwildest discourse i've seen)

like honestly i'm more worried about "god people are going to be annoying about that aren't they" than the actual age gap itself. Sorry ive read too much stupid discourses.

imo the agegap is manageable, they're both adults anyway, and honestly they're both too fucked up for it to matter. Like. Tor is a master manipulator. I think he's fine. he's not a child.

If anything is "problematic" about this relationship it will be the power dynamic between his king and his vassal (esp with how Aglovale does threaten him early on), the age gap has nothing on why it'd be problematic.

and i think it'd be a disservice to their characters for it to be read any other way, esp since while we can joke about Aglovale being a cougar of sort, the whole thing is that Tor, by being a master manipulator and tactician, is just the only person Aglovale managed to trust outside of his family and for someone as traumatized as him, that's huge. he's clearly not in it for the power dynamic he could have on him. (even if Tor wonders at some point if Aglovale loves to tease him because he's younger than him, considering Aglovale otherwise only tease his younger brothers).

I just couldn't help but mention it bc anon pointed it out and i just am wary of how discussions could evolve on that point. And also just because on the other hand i did really want to avoid the possible incest and i was just so glad when they cleared that up that then the reveal of the agegap just made me like.... when you just lower your guard after 3 years because "finally no one can say anything bad about this ship" and BAM you get a punch in the stomach. and it's technically not bad! it's a punch not a knife! but jfc you had your guard up a MINUTE ago why do i have to worry again.

so yeah. that's what i meant.

[appreciatingtokrev]

it’s true but some users do like to hide their age on here if they’re feel like they’re too old, I have seen blogs where 20’s or 18+ in their bio instead.

ah yh some users can be problematic about that. I’ve seen with most people that having friends with big age gap normally happen when they’re adults lol. also, I feel like that depends on the person and what’s their friend is like (?) regarding those experiences because I had talked to ppl with a year/two age gap too but I never felt like they opened my eyes to a whole another world.

that mean she must felt really bad then and it sound like she was nervous so probably just said the first thing that popped in her mind lol. ah, we all know each other and I wished the forgot friend a happy birthday since her one is a month before mine and before that i got her back together with the other friend that got annoyed so that’s probably why. she was annoyed though because she reacted with 🙃 when I told her 😂😂😂

it sound like Valentine must be her favourite occasion of the year then. do you know about white day ? oh I see so she probably get more excited towards the celebration as the relationship with her girlfriend become longer. it is a nice thing to see considering having a relationship like that mean the world for some people.

true true. personally believe you can never be too old (except when it comes to romantic/sexual relationships with minors or something-) but i do understand

yeah i’ve had other ppl online tell me off before bc i had a bunch of fourteen to sixteen year old friends at eighteen. i get where they’re coming from with all the grooming stuff and shit, but i was just genuinly friends with them 😭 like. i’m normal about my thirteen year old brother too?? we are very close and i could easily have the same fandom discussions with him. obviously i’d never do anything weird around minors??? you should definitely tell off people doing that but attacking adults solely for being friends/talking to minors when the conversations are all normal & the adult hasn’t done anything.. feels wrong to me. like if you can’t bring up any arguements, what’s the point? why tell me ‘‘omg you’re 18 stop interacting with a 14 year old!!’’ when the fourteen year old knows abt my age and actually approached me first 😭 idk there’s so much stupid age discourse. done with the topic now i’m tired of age discourse but i had to get it out of my system for once ajfjgjjsh

also, the world view thing definitely is a v personal thing. i’ve been in a class where most of my grade was pretty conservative and simply by talking to someone a grade above already helped a lot because they were more liberal lol. i think how much difference it can make is interesting ngl

yeah lol but i made sure she doesn’t have to feel bad about it (i hope) so it ended all well. oh well lmao

it’s definitely her fav holiday! i’ve heard of white day too but i don’t know much bc it isn’t celebrated here at all. tbh the only reason i kinda care abt it a tiny little bit is the official white day art we get in the genshin fandom lmao. she’s always been excited abt valentine’s day but yeah now she’s even happier <3 her gf & her are really cute together so i’m very happy for them! i’ve also known both of them for a few years, so i knew them before & when they got together, and i know that they both love each other lots :3

[theamberwizard]

Harmful is also ignoring where Billy's racism comes from and condemning a young teen who never had the chance to change. I hope it's ok if I remain anonymous, I grew up in a racist household and community in a small town in Europe.

Imagine I'm your parent and I spend your whole childhood frequently talking about how I hate Camry drivers. They are slow as fuck and seem to always be in the wrong lane or turn the wrong way before they go where they intended. As you grow up, you'll see a few normal Camry drivers but you'll usually not care to notice or you'll quickly forget, but the ones that are shitty will really stand out. Your brain will get all excited "see, Dad was right. Stupid Camry drivers holding us back as a society. Fuck em."

You have to be willing to unlearn it and change yourself, and admit you were wrong in the past. Not easy for everyone. It took years and years for me to even realize my opinions were racist to begin with. I started thinking with my own head. Mind you, I'm almost 30 years old.

Not your case, but seeing how quick antis are to wish death upon a teen boy who had a racist dad, to condemn him, giving him zero chances, is also harmful and very mean behavior. It hurts my feelings as well, who was in a similar situation. So obviously I wished for better writing for Billy, a better redemption. He could have changed just like I and many others have. Abuse circles are difficult to portray, I get it. But now we just have a bunch of hateful people harassing eachother over a fictional character throwing all fans in on pot.

I hope you understand.

okay first: it is always okay to remain anonymous. that's your prerogative, i respect it, and there is zero judgement from me over here.

next: your experience is valid. this does happen to a lot of people, and it's not your fault nor is it billy's fault that y'all were raised in racist households. however, it is billy's fault that he isn't making an effort to change. i understand that it's ridiculously difficult to figure this out, especially in an environment like that, but it's unfair to disregard his racism because he was raised that way. the white teenage boy in my school that called someone else the n word online was raised that way: but he still shouldn't have said that. you can't ignore the harm he caused because he too was caused harm by being given those beliefs. there are many people who are raised that way and reject it- it doesn't matter when they realize that they're wrong, or at what age they reverse their beliefs: it's the end result that matters. however, billy is never shown to go back on his beliefs about lucas.

is it horrible that billy never got a chance to say sorry? that he never got another opportunity to become a better person? yes! 100%! but that still means he never changed. for all we know, billy never felt sorry.

if billy ever gets a redemption/revival in which he realizes his actions were wrong and apologizes, and maybe even gets forgiveness from lucas, then i can and will forgive him as a character as well. until that day, i'll still stand by my original opinion about him.

i do not blame people who had the misfortune of growing up in such a bad environment. but if they stay in their ways, and never change, there is no alternative but to say they are the issue.

lastly, anon: i do not judge you for your feelings on the topic. i understand as much as i can with my experiences. using billy to say that people who grew up in that situation are to blame is harmful, and you are entirely correct in your first line, it's important to remember that billy was another victim of the cycle of abuse.

i very much appreciate your politeness (ik i haven't been polite in the past- my posts abt billy come off as aggressive bc i'm very passionate about the topic, but i promise i do my best to be polite in discourse) and your perspective on the matter

thank you for the ask.

[antiloreolympus]

7 Anti LO Asks

1. tbh the fact rachel purposely didnt let persephone have any romantic relationships before hades gives the impression that had persephone had any other experience, she'd see right through him and not want him because she had better. not having any other point of reference isnt good. its setting up that hades can get away with whatever he wants because she doesnt know anything else. thats really not a healthy dynamic to have even while dating, much less eternal marriage.

2. You know what’s weird? How Hades is a 2000+ year old being and still has not gone through his trauma. We know that he was eaten by Kronos when he was around 8 and stayed there for like 13 years if i’m correct (in the LO version), so we can assume that when he got out he was in his early to mid twenties. And then he fought in the war which we don’t know how long it was in LO bc there’s no info on that at all but let’s assume that that lasted 100 years.. he’s still pretty young there. So how is it that he’s only now getting help for his traumas? Which we don’t even see actually, it’s just a sentence said by him when he adopts the little dog. We don’t even know how old he actually is bc it’s always assumed it’s 2000+ but 2000+ years old could mean 2030 years old or 2999 years old or even 3000 and more and he has just lost track of time. All of these years and he still has not processed or made any progress?? At all?! Unless therapists are a new thing in the Underworld but we have Chiron who says that she was a physician in the old world but got tired of it so she decided to study the human mind. And that must have been quite some time ago. So why exactly is Hades a 2000+ broken man who needs to be fixed by a 19 year old going through her own trauma? 

3. The underworld being an infertile world doesn’t make sense at all. If we compare the underworld with the underground it’s a fact that where there’s decay if is more fertile. Not to mention that in the myths the underworld is in fact considered a fertile land. We know that the underworld is full of souls, and souls are considered what give life to a body or place, so the underworld being a desert still doesn’t make sense at all. 

4.If I may also add, just because LO is a “retelling” doesn’t mean it doesn’t harm Greece or Greek people. They still exist, funnily enough, they didn’t all die once Alexander the Great stop conquering. They’re a country full of strong, passionate people who have gone and are still going through massive problems and hardships. They are also a country who are still, at best, ignored, or at worst, mocked for the suffering they must endure by nations that are far from economic instability and from actual war zones like Greece is. Despite all that, their mythos are seen with great reverence to this day, and they don’t “gatekeep” it, you can ask any Greek in here and they’ll tell you they enjoy stuff like the Disney version or PJO just fine, but you have to stop and wonder why LO is a Greek myth product that is almost universally despised to Greeks who know it exists.

It’s pretty obvious why, RS not only butchers the myths completely to where they don’t even resemble what they once were, but her constantly silencing and badmouthing actual Greeks who want to help her make it more accurate is not a great look. She’s acting as if she, a white woman from an island made of literal England reject descendants, somehow not only knows more about Greek myth than actual Greeks, but that she OWNS the mythology and she can do whatever she wants with it, and only those who agree to her biases know what they’re talking about while everyone else is wrong, so obviously Greeks don’t know Greek mythology! Even media products in the same, non-Greek realm as her get her ire. Case in point, we know she’s hostile to PJO, she badmouths the Disney movie all the time, she complained about Blood of Zeus (emphasize on ZEUS) didn’t revolve around HxP, and despite them being heavily promoted by her own employers, she never speaks of Punderworld or HxP ficlets, even when her fans harass them and in Ficlets case purposely got them kicked off Canvas for “copying” LO, meanwhile she will happily promote OSP because they confirm her biases and kissed her butt in their HxP video. What does this tell us? Because it doesn’t seem very nice.

Of course she’s allowed as a creator to play with the mythology as she wants, but even then there are still limits to adhere to, and she never does it because obviously her half-baked concept of the “mythology” is way better than the 3000+ years of texts and interpretations out there. Sure she has people flinging themselves at her to offer her help for free, especially Greeks and academics, but what would they know over her, the self proclaimed master of mythology itself? Obviously she created it all in 2016 when she decided to draw a sexy pink girl and that’s it. Greece and everyone else was just using a fake version this whole time! 

It seems from her POV, Greece ands its citizens are, in her own words “haters” who apparently know less about Greece and its own mythology than her, a white woman who uses a fanfic-writing white supremacist as a main source. The ego on this woman is astonishing.

5. May I also add to the age discourse, something like Edward and Bella can get away with it because Edward stopped aging physically, mentally, and emotionally at 17, and even in story there is a logic to them still going to HighSchool after all this time. He may be 117 age wise, but he’s at the same exact level as Bella in every other regard. That doesn’t excuse his creepy actions, of course, but there is in canon logic to it to justify it and make sense.

I’d say LO could use this too, but tbh it wouldn’t work. Either it’d involve making a CEO king as immature and childish as a 19 year old (not great) or it’d have a 19 year old suddenly be way wiser beyond her years which wouldn’t make much narrative sense, but also has some really creepy implications to it. Anyway RS dug herself into a stupid hole and doesn’t know how to get out of it. 

6. im in the same boat 😭 i was watching one of those LO critique videos you posted and they were showing panels from early on and i just thought "they photoshopped this, right? theres no way it looked this bad. they're just goofing around with this" and nope, that's exactly how they looked the video didnt change a thing. the bright colors really were distracting your eyes from seeing how bad it looked.

7. Correct me if i’m wrong but in one of the first few episodes wasn’t Hades annoyed with Persephone? Especially at the panel where she wanted to drive his car? Like nothing has really changed in her behaviour with him apart from her being more flirty, but the only change is that Hades started viewing her more sexually. Always thinking about her breasts and butt, and nothing else. Half the time he was thinking about her, he wouldn’t even think of her face. So how exactly is their relationship a romantic and lovely one? 

[ghost-ghost-baby]

Why I kinda stopped writing lol

So I turned 19 last December, and w all the bnha discourse going around (specifically that whole ‘if ur 18+ u shouldn’t b simping over these bnha characters Nd if u do ur a p*do’ which is so fucjing stupid and, invalidates survivors and takes away from how serious is is, like the Voltron fandom all over again which is rlly disappointing) I kinda had to take a step back and evaluate? And I have a few thoughts.

1. I’m not sure what it’s like for other ppl, but for me it’s as if characters age w me??? So I always see them as my age???

2. I’ve decided w anime age isn’t the deciding factor on whether u can simp for a character. We know damn well creators make characters that look 10 and do the whole ‘it’s fine they’re actually 1000 so it’s fine' when it’s just blatant minor coding?

3. W bnha specifically, these characters are nothing like minors??? They act nothing like 15/16/17y/os, and most of them are drawn in a way where they could easily b 18-20?? ESPECIALLY with fan art and fan content??

4. What about adult cosplayers who wanna cosplay deku/bakugo/Denki etc??? They always age the characters up to their age???????? Why shouldn’t they b allowed to cosplay these characters bc of their age lol?

I’m not sure if this makes any sense, but my conclusion and thoughts on the matter: creating fan content where u age these characters up is completely okay, ur not gross, ur not a p*do, ppl just don’t know how to fuckin act.

And with that conclusion, I will continue to b writing for most bnha characters (aged up ofc, as I always have done)

[dannyphantom-rewrite]

Character ref for; Jack, Maddie and Jazz,

Art by @gally-hin / @gally-hin-phantom

Okay so first off; in terms of Actual redesign, I didn't change a whole lot. I'm actually very fond of Jack and Maddie's design's, my only real issue was with their proportions. Like...look as a lady person who is also thiCC I do not have a fucking wasp thin waist and I'm sure I'm not the only one, lmao. As for Jack? Godamnit he looked like a brick on toothpicks. Just Let him be a fucking Bara man! Anyway of course I asked Gally to do this one bc they're fucking great at drawing different body types

I also cannot and will not take credit for Jazz's outfit. I didn't have any issue with her canon clothes aside from them being a bit plain, so what she's wearing here was literally pulled straight off of her original concept art, which I will link here.

Anyway, getting to the Actual character lore now, let's start with

Maddie Fenton

-Full name is Madeline (I haven't decided on a maiden name yet)

-Born and raised on a farm in Arkansas, had a southern accent that she trained herself out of in college bc it was just one more reason for people not to take her seriously. Still sometimes uses "y'all" completely unironically bc old habits die hard.

-She has a really big family, and they're proud of her accomplishments but feel like she's wasting her talent studying ghosts, because really, up until the Fenton portal was up and running there wasn't even any solid proof they existed. Her sister Alicia is the one outlier there, and even if she doesn't understand, it she completely supports her.

-She majored in engineering and minored in psychology at Wisconsin EDU. Her, Jack and Vlad were all in the same engineering class, and that's where they met.

-Maddie is particularly interested in how ghosts think, analysing their behavior, their motives. Not only that, but they aren't just dead people with unfinished business, they've built an entire culture in the Ghost Zone that is completely seperate from humanity, and she wants to understand all of it.

-skilled marksman and 9th degree black belt, (which is. The highest fucking level there is holy shit? I looked it up after I saw it on her wiki page.)

Jack Fenton

-He's from Minnesota (Amity park is in Illinois and him and Maddie didn't move there until after they got married) 

-okay, "but why minnesota specifically" you ask? Because. I crave. Foot ball discourse. 

-minnesota vikings vs green bay packers guys do you UNDERSTAND WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS 

-The funny thing is that Jack only watches football casually while Vlad is a fucking die hard so when these two got together to see a game it was like....

-Jack: Here to chill and have a good time.

-Vlad: Primed and ready to start a fist fight at any given moment.

-I am never not going to be salty about how Canon Jack was portrayed like a complete moron 99% percent of the time. Like no...theres a difference between Actual Stupid and ADHD induced dumbass-ery.

-Am I saying Jack Fenton has ADHD? Yes. why? Because I also have ADHD and I have always vibed So Hard with his Character.

-Jack is loud and easily excited about things that interest him. He's impulsive and fidgety and yeah, a bit absent minded. He has a mouth that clearly runs so much faster than his head. His train of thought doesn't get derailed so much as it stops and takes several different detours on the way to it's final destination.

-and that's only the tip of the iceberg, really, I'd need an entire essay to get into this completely, but I just really relate.

-Jacks skill-set / interests regarding ghosts vary a bit from Maddie's, most notably in the sense that he doesn't believe that they're static entities already set in their ways, completely incapable of change.

-Jack majored in engineering and minored in Biology at Wisconsin EDU.

-Jack's work with tech is a bit hit or miss. He definitely HAS the engineering skills, but the intrest isn't always there and he's constantly jumping back and forth between different projects. He tends to focus on the concept work and schematics and leave most of the assembly to Maddie as a result. It's an arrangement that works well for them, and has drastically decreased the number of unintentional explosions in the lab.

-A lot of Jack's work tends to revolve around ghostly biology and Ectoplasm, figuring out how ghosts are made, what makes them tick, what the hell Ectoplasm Actually Is, how it's used as an energy source, ect.

-and yes, that does also mean he handles the dissections.

-See that facial scar? Yeah, that's not actually there at the start of the series rewrite but it's very important for plot reasons so I had to include it. Can't say much more on the subject because SPOILERs owo.

Jasmine Fenton

-Jazz is a 18 years old, and a senior at Casper high.

-Which means she prepping to go away to college and won't be around to keep an eye on Danny.

-Obviously that doesn't mean I'm just writing her out of the story, oh no. Know why? Because she's also gonna go to Wisconsin EDU. ya know who else is in Wisconsin? Fuckin' Vlad.

-Jazz is autistic, Although she passes for neurotypical in part due to symptoms being completely over looked in girls due to gender stereotyping and also the fact that she doesn't have any special interests that are considered " "too weird.""

- Her hyperfixation with psychology started at a young age in an effort to better understand people, and social/emotional cues and all that.

-Jazz is well liked at school but she's not popular or apart of any specific group or clique. She's very kind and compassionate to people, and just about everyone knows her, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who actually Considered her a friend. Except maybe Spike.

-I'm gonna have to give spike his own Character ref at some point, but he's this scary looking goth kid that's been held back twice. He's actually super sweet, just really fuckin' quiet and anxious. Him and jazz kinda ended up gravitating towards each other. She might do most of the talking, but they look out for each other.

-its not like jazz doesn't try to socialize, but it's difficult and she's found it much easier and less stressful to just. Keep to herself and let her interactions with her peers stay shallow and superficial. Sure, it's lonely sometimes but it's better than constantly worrying about saying the wrong thing or making some other misstep.

-One of Jazz's other special interests is football, and it's not so much the players or the game as it is the strategy of it? Started out as one of those things you do to bond with your dad, and she ended up getting really into it.

-She absolutley winds up getting into stupidly intense discussions with Vlad about it, too, lmao.

-Her and Danny probably bonded over SBNation bc that shit has both sentient satellites and ridiculously complex football mechanics.

-She's completely oblivious to the fact, but Dash has a massive crush on her bc holy shit this girl understands football (hey bud your toxic masculinity is showing put that shit away)

-I mentioned that Danny was in Cheer for a bit in middle school so it makes sense that she'd also be pushed into doing some kind of extracurricular activity.....so.....she was in a martial arts class for a bit thanks to Maddie and has a good grasp on self defense.

I think that's everything? I feel like I'm leaving things out tho? Idk if I did I'll come back and add on to this later and also pls don't hesitate to ask questions bc it really helps me flesh things out better.