#nothing to discuss

[mafaldaknows]

To my most recent Anon:

The beautiful thing about a fandom ship is that it lives on for as long as there are crew members to hoist the sails and to steer it.

Maintain course, steady as she goes.

[forthekeres]

ill post here..yes any canimal

[milfvael]

It’s actually crazy that da2 ended with a church getting blown up and then the next game started with a different unrelated church getting blown up. Like what was going on there

[mohntilyet]

about illario working with the venatori, we can't forget that elgar'nan gifted him blood magic, so I do think that he somewhat influenced him and that's why he's so much more vindictive and jealous in comparison to tevinter nights. I don't mean that he's being mind controlled, but it's a bit like cyrian, a god just amplifying those negative emotions in you and promising power and glory can push a person to that edge and to make stupid af decisions.

im also not forgetting that zara line in inner demons where she talks about an envy demon. like. why an envy demon in specific...there's THINGS between zara and illario that were not shown

no literally if you get me talking about illario + envy + the possibility of getting him possessed, you will have me here for fucking ever. a non mage doing blood magic (any magic at all) is really weird and interesting to me and i don’t remember an example of this happening before (feel free to correct me tho lol. i’m discounting possessions and dwarves)

i had started wildly theorising after bloodbath that he had been possessed and he was tapping into the fade using an envy demon. especially like you said, zara mentions it, AND because i swear there’s a codex in the ossuary where it mentions an envy demon whereas spite is obviously determination, right? so i thought it was a breadcrumb trail to a big “illario is being influenced and doesn’t even know” reveal— same as you anon like great minds am i right— but i’m not sure there is actually any evidence of that lol. like maybe if you squint but i do believe it was explained away by “oh yeah, and elgarnan let him do special blood magic”

it does also make sense to me that illario can only control lucanis, due to being part of the same family. a bloodline thing, and it is very poetic to me that their shared family connection in caterina is what allows him to control lucanis, even for a moment lol. spite being the extra magical boost that lucanis needs to block that out ALSO makes sense to me so i’m not too fussed abt these details lol🤔

the envyllario in my heart also gets spectral weapons for himself. lucanis gets wings, illario gets talons, PLUS green-purple are complementary colors so it would have been really fun to see them clash with their spirit/demon-powers. the talon thing is also a kind of reflection of his end-goal desire, how envy demons already have those freaky hands, and it manifests as claws and is a much more aggressive, strength-augmenting manifestation (as opposed to manoeuvrability and speed-augmenting that spite’s wings give lucanis.) anyways that's what the diagram above is supposed to be (this is extremely hot to me)

[tetrafelino]

Not my sister bringing up """"the"""" presidential debate... Girl you are PARANAENSE.

[jabberwockprince]

swings a pocket watch in front of you. oohhh you want to learn about afflatus. you want to understand the ecological cycle between them explained in the early stages of the game and the themes they represent. mineral and plant referring to community and groups vs beast and star referring to isolation and the individual. ohhhh you want to look into them. you want to understand the differences between how mineral refers to the solid systems and traditions and unmovable concepts that rule this world, manmade or not vs how plant refers to the everchanging adapting systems found in nature that inherently belong in this world

ohhhh yes you want to understand that the beast afflatus refers to the underdog's fight against an environment that doesnt allow space for them vs the star afflatus isolation of being singled out due to a trait or talent that sets you apart from your environment. hence why beast is weak against mineral (its an individual at disadvantage vs an entire system that works against them) and why mineral is weak against star (its the established rules and traditions vs the trailblazing genius that can topple societies. and why star is weak against plant (its the revolutionary against the rules of nature that states everything must change, you are not special for causing change) and why plant is weak against beast (its the harmony of a community being destroyed from inside by an individual seeking something for themselves)

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you want to study in-game details and analyze them to see the full picture of a character you want to understand that dikke is not a cruel judge because her incantations are attack and heal and they both have flavor text that differentiates between justice for those who need it and the abuse of power. because shes not heartless nor strictly cold, shes attempting to make a difference from inside a corrupt system.

ohhhhh you want to understand that pavia is not a broken person who is touchstarved for community because he has made himself his own community as seen with his incantations and gamemode that highlights he's much happier doing whatever the fuck he wants on his own without restraint. ohhhhhhh you want to understand the reason 37 and regulus butt heads so much is because they're two sides of the star afflatus experience, but both of them are equally as smart and equally as valid as geniuses in their own righ

o hhhhhhhhh you want to understand that afflatus refers to the experiences someone goes through and explains why they are like this as people, hence why life changing explanations can change your afflatus and this is why kakania was INTELLECT in 1.7 but she became PLANT in 1.9 in the main story oooooooooooooooooo

edit: hi if you got this far and you think this is interesting consider checking the beginning of my afflatus analysis here on my writing blog!

[nekotachiriba]

exploding them with my head

[fatehbaz]

weekly navel-gazing update: this week is most consequential event in long time. keyword search: "scared" "is it ok to be scared" "beaten and tortured by the ogre"

[sforzesco]

SERBISYO

something from the vault! freeing this comic from my drafts; this was an older idea, just messing around with a scene earlier on in crassus' career. love a guy who. uhhh. exploits tragedy to his benefit. christ. something something the politics of opportunity.

there was originally a follow up to this about the benefits of knowing when cold hard cash is the way to go, but I realized about five minutes ago it would be a better fit to place it during the catilinarian conspiracy arc. which means I should figure out a design for catiline for real.

[thejakeformerlyknownasprince]

I just saw a review of 19 that said that it was bad because it sympathizes with fascist. It was certainly a take any thought.

Dehumanization is a hell of a drug.

[macaronirats]

Fuffy vibes

[altschmerzes]

if the only time you bring up A Secret Third Thing is when someone has suggested generally celebrating or uplifting platonic/queerplatonic fictional relationships in spaces that ordinarily obsess about romantic ones to the exclusion of all else perhaps consider why you’re doing that and also stop.

[srslylini]

season 2 has a structure problem and that makes act 1 flow naturally enough and it sets up the next acts perfectly well, but they wanted to do so much more than what they were

1. setting up

2. capable of doing in 9 episodes

had they just cut a few plot lines everything would've moved far easier. For example

1. cut the Smeech thing entirely. Sevika and Jinx don't need this to find themselves together and start a found family. That scene In Silcos office was so moving and everything I always loved about Arcane, stuff like this is what's needed. In fact move the prison break to act 1 and have them handle that together, Jinx can still make Sevika her arm, and everything could've still moved the same. It would've fit so much better and there also would've been so much more time to develop anything else with the magic system and act 2 wouldn't feel like it was overflowing with anything and everything. Isha is a character that as of in the show can be cut so easily and that's so sad because she'd be so interesting. Everything about her would've worked and SHOULD HAVE worked but she also just felt like Plot and a thing to make Jinx sad over again. Either don't do that or make Isha not a character like this???? I liked her scenes with Jinx so much and the scene with Jinx freaking out after finding out that Isha was taken to prison was genuinely so good, I'm still holding on to the hope that they didn't actually kill her

2. either cut that shit with the tree because let's be so honest that basically only happened so that Heimerdinger, Ekko and Jayce could meet, since we do NOT even really talk about the tree in act 2? that was so weird. Like either actually make it a thing or find different ways to let characters meet naturally. I dont know, the show was so good with that in season 1. And if they truly wanted the tree scene at least make it make sense and don't randomly drop it Idk.

3. I LOVE Mel she is like my favorite character but the plot with the black rose takes so much necessary time away from what we actually need to focus on. I heard they want to make different shows so they are setting this up but it just doesn't work. Mel could've so easily been integrated into the main plot line and it would've also made so much more sense at that. Though I'll just wait on act 3 before I judge too hard. (if they actually DARE to make her pregnant Istg)

4. Making Jinx that hero character for only like, what, a few seconds was so strange. I hope act 3 gets that better but that, first of all, happened mostly out of no where and a few touches to her shoulder after the prison scene was also not??? helping??? either set that up from the very start or don't do it at all. She isn't a hero, she is a tragedy and someone who needs help and room to breathe. The scenes where they tried to make that funny, in my opinion didn't land at all. She doesn't need a hero complex she needs calmness and stable relationships. Let Isha live I swear to GOD.

in fact that leads me into the next point

5. Have Vi realize she doesn't want to be an enforcerer sooner? I actually do like how rushed that part felt don't get me wrong, but if they wanted a reunion between Jinx and Vi don't randomly put it into act 2 with barely any build up. Let Jinx and Vi realize it during the fight, they kinda did do that but??? just didn't move that anywhere. it's so strange. If they had cut the Smeech stuff they could've easily used the third episode to make Jinx and Vi slowly reconcile. Which also means I think Vi would've been such a better "symbol" than Jinx. Vi and Jinx, for me, show what Zaun is made of, and Jinx is quite literally the valid pain, distrust and anger of Zaun, and she as well as Zaun desperately need healing. Like that would've been SO COOL. that's just my opinion though, so there is that.

6. If they had made Vi the symbol the conflict between Caitlyn and Vi would've felt a lot more natural as well. Like??? Also Caitlyn should've had so much more time if they wanted that switch up in the end to work. Cut the black rose stuff and that would've worked perfectly fine.

7. Now do NOT get me wrong, Ambessa's character is so interesting and I feel like exploring her is so cool but she and her plot just doesn't fit into the Piltover/Zaun thing. It makes it too big for what the show is. In fact I (and now this is just my opinion, anyone can have their own just saying lmao) would've either cut out Ambessa's character/plotline or subtly continued Ambessas drama with Mel, which would give Mel, who didn't get taken by the black rose in my version, a lot more to do and way more interesting stuff too. Again this is very much my opinion and doesn't mean anyone needs to share it, but I feel like they could've easily made Heimerdinger be the one who gets Caitlyn to where she was/is with Ambessa. It would've expanded Heimerdingers character and it would've stayed in the setting they already perfectly build up, Piltover and Zaun. Also, Heimerdinger wouldn't just feel like a random joke character anymore.

8. The Pit fight stuff could have been SO interesting and I feel had we not stayed with Viktor Christ so much which was also so weird at times, we could've gotten so much necessary insight on Vi. If we follow my idea it could've been Vi forced to be a symbol because of the person she is. The embodiment of Zauns loyalty, strength and resilience. And then the fights that will come out of that forcing Vi to face so much stuff she shouldn't etc etc (I haven't fleshed that one out yet don't come for me) and that could've ended in her pit fighting era, which should've taken at LEAST an episode and not a random montage that just gets forgotten??? for no reason at all. Really hope act 3 talks about that cause??? I feel with Vi as the leader the healing of Zaun would make so much sense, because Jinx realistically can't do that. The idea of Jinx being in that position IS interesting I just feel it wasn't established/developed enough.

9. I really really liked how from the very beginning Viktor's safe haven did not in fact feel safe. There was always a very uneasy feeling and that's what I love about the show. I was always waiting for the shoe to drop and it happened, that was amazing. Though I would've either established a lot of this way earlier on in the show or made it not so, and now walk with me here Ik its magic, unrealistic. That does sound strange but having Viktor suddenly float in space with white silver flowing hair and his dead assistent next to him was... very very out of no where. It was like a lazy show trying to get away with "yeah well it's magic so of course this works" and I hate that because even magic needs explanation and build up. So yeah. Either cut that shit out or have it established sooner. And while seeing the one person who helped Jayce as a kid did kind of help, it still wasn't enough for THIS, though again MY OPINION. Also we spent way too much time there, it was getting ridiculous. So much time could've easily been lent to stuff that actually needed it. I actually laughed out loud when Viktor started the healing process with Vander because come ON now, and I do not think they wanted me to laugh.

10. The stuff with Vander, Silco and Felicia (while cute) was unnecessary and weird. What I liked the most about Vander taking in Vi and Powder was the feeling that he didn't do it because he necessarily knew them very well but because he knew their mom was dead (that did show he and their mother did kind of know each other but so do like all the people in the lanes that is kind of established) and wanted to PROTECT. This new context sadly makes it feel like "well of course he stopped everything and took them with them and cared for them he knew them since birth, duh" when I always wanted to feel "well Vander is in his heart a good man who saw what terrible stuff this war and fighting did and then took in orphaned children because of course he would do that" if that makes sense? I feel this new thing took away so much from Vander, but again that's maybe just me.

11. So many jokes and scenes didn't land with me. The scene with Jinx trying to show Sevika her middle finger was SO GOOD and so Arcane that seeing the scene were they try to make it funny with Jinx's trousers and that enforcerer felt so out of place? Like what. That scene could have EASILY been cut and nothing would have changed at all. And that's what is the worst because there isn't one scene in season 1 that I feel could've been cut and there are so many of them in season 2.

12. Introducing Maddie in act 1 made me believe she'd be a bigger, even more of a threat to Zaun, character than she was and that's so sad. What I loved about season 1 is that every single character mattered. Even those we saw maybe once. This time around I hardly cared at all for any new character because they didn't feel like a Person anymore, they just felt like Plot. In season 1 episode 1 there is this scene, the first scene Vander gets to speak in. The only reason Huck meets the woman and the man to trait was basically so we get to know how the undercity works and establish Vander as basically its leader and protecter; The one people are loyal to etc. But it doesn't feel that way. It's something that naturally happens and every character in that scene, even the man and the woman we never see again, mattered and felt real.

yeah so those were really just my thoughts. I could very much go on but I also don't want to.

[bonefall]

Splashtail and Atheism

Hello. I am an Atheist and I call Splashstar an Atheist because he is based on widespread bigoted depictions of godless people like myself. There have now been several posts about this written as if they're trying to "correct a misconception," and I am tired of vagueposts completely missing the point of the criticism to get caught up on arguing semantics.

The misanthropic, god-hating "Atheist" character in Christian propaganda, which I feel Splashstar has some alarming similarities with, does not come from the writer's correctable "misconception" of irreligious labels. It is born from a hatred of nonbelievers.

Specifically, my point that Splashtail is a mashup of two popular anti-secular tropes common in religious media;

The assertion that there's no such thing as a "real" nonbeliever, and that Atheists are just "rebelling" against God because we're mad at him, want to do bad things without guilt, or have "lost our way."

The belief that morality itself stems from faith in a higher moral being, asserting that the irreligious are "evil" in contrast to the faithful.

Even passing familiarity with the arguments of Christian apologia seen in Chick Tracts, Pureflix films, PragerU videos, and so on, will have put these tropes in front of you. They are false and harmful, and they target Atheists.

For more on this, TVTropes has an entire article dedicated to the Hollywood Atheist and its sub-tropes. Note how many of these Curlfeather and Splashtail fall into, regardless of if you're arguing that they are "real atheists" or not.

Those that hate us do not care about semantic labels. To them, we are without God, A-Theistic, and they do not actually care what is at the core of your beliefs if it contradicts their narrative.

But, even worse, the "Splashtail Can't Be An Atheist" crowd isn't even totally correct on the semantics they're trying to have a pedant battle about.

Most atheistic organizations and online atheists define Atheism as "one who does not believe in God" and attempt to push a sliding scale of "agnosticism" on how hard of a "maybe" you're feeling about your lack of faith. In the sliding agnostic scale, Agnostic Atheists are a "probably no god" and Gnostic Atheists are a "definitely no god." Others describe that scale as "hard" and "soft" Atheism-- but there is NOT universal agreement on that definition.

There other definitions of an "Atheist," and even those who reject the "agnostic scale" completely (I am one of them). "Atheism" was historically the catch-all term for what we might now call "Irreligious," and more.

The Encyclopedia of Philosophy explores its many meanings, and proposes that what defines an Atheist is an active choice to distance oneself from faith; "Someone who rejects the premise of gods either based on lack of belief, or meaninglessness of the question." Matt Dillahunty, a prominent educator and activist, intentionally refers to himself as an Atheist when others (including religious people!) have tried to pressure him into using the label Agnostic, for reasons he covers in great depth. Historically, "atheist" simply meant anyone who denied the gods or acted impiously, evolving into use as a broad label for irreligious practices around the 1500s, until attempts to narrow it to "nonbelievers in deities" in the 1800s.

By EoP's expanded definition alone, Splashstar qualifies as an Atheist. The rejection does not have to come from a belief that Theism is false, but that the question is meaningless. He doesn't have to "believe" in StarClan any more than you have to "believe" in a total stranger. He rejects faith in it and lives without their influence.

But even more than that, "atheist" is a broad, stigmatized term with a history you can't erase. Hundreds of combinations of philosophies, spiritual beliefs, and logical positions have been called "Atheism."

"Atheist" can refer to Agnostics (those who aren't sure if there is a god or not), Antitheists (opposition to the belief in and/or worship of gods), Igtheists (those that feel that "god" is such a nebulous term that the question of belief is meaningless), Apatheists (people who just don't care), practitioners of Non-Deistic religions (such as Humanistic Judaism and some sects of Buddhism), and even heretics who spoke against religion like Diagoras of Melos (gay guy who chopped up a statue of hercules and used it to bake beans. king.)

In a fantasy universe where gods are provably, visibly real, the term "Atheist" is going to look a lot more like those historic and expansive uses.

Unless you want to argue that "atheism" by the narrow, popular definition of "believing in deities" can't exist in such a setting. So, arguing that Cloudtail stopped being an Atheist when he saw demons in OotS, in spite of this not affecting his spiritual practices. Or, dancing around using one uniting term, you could specifically say Curlfeather is a Misotheist, Splashstar is an Antitheist or Agnostic, Mothwing is Deist, etc.

You could have a discussion about how applicable these words even are in the setting. Or make up terms that satisfy yourself. You could do this forever. But I choose not to.

I think it's counterproductive to push people to learn a bunch of terms for hyperspecific branches of irreligious philosophy just to discuss clear anti-secular sentiment within the text of a book, actually. Or push people to abandon a useful word because fantasy isn't exactly the same as real life. Functionally, imo, all of those aforementioned cats are Atheists within this setting, living "without god" by rejecting belief-- and many of them invoke real world bigotry, with tropes much older than WC itself.

So the simple fact is; Calling Splashtail an "Evil Atheist" immediately communicates the narrative tropes I am criticizing.

Either by authorial accident or on purpose, Splashstar's lack of morality being tied to his rejection of StarClan invokes the demonized atheist trope, very much like the ones seen in PureFlix's God's Not Dead or Jack Chick's The Last Generation.

All the arbitrary wishing that the terms were more narrow and exclusive will not change the reality that those characters are intended by bigots as atheists. The terms of the discussion reflect that. Trying to tut-tut the fandom for calling a spade a spade is a smug way to phrase you completely missed the damn point.

[theevilfishywizard]

I think there’s a decent case to be made that MCD Laurance was a victim of some form of sexual assault by Michi and that informs a lot of his actions in season two, but I don’t know if I’m reaching or not.

[owlheartt]

Something I really like about timebomb is that Ekko actually knows what he's getting into.

I'm not really seeing it get talked about but in season 1 they mention that Ekko and the firelights help people addicted to shimmer get off it and lead more fulfilling lives within the community. I should probably rewatch the scene for the exact wording (might be misremembering tbh) but that comment implies A LOT.

First: Ekko's mission is helping people where he can, he would probably try and help Jinx even if he wasn't in love with her

Second: He has experience dealing with severe mental illness as that often goes hand in hand with drug abuse, namely depression/suicidal ideation like what Jinx was exhibiting

Third: He's probably mapped out best course of action FOR dealing with this and has already figured out his own limits/boundaries. Meaning he knew what he was getting into trying to talk Jinx out of suicide, and was thus more equipped to deal with the aftermath

Fourth: He's probably helped ex members of Silco's gang. The firelights seem to have a theme of healing and repairing and recovering, so they've probably also learned to forgive. If they're mission is to rebuild the lanes into a safe space, they can't exclude people they don't like, they have to make room for them. I think they fought Silco out of necessity, and I doubt Jinx would be the first person they help who's killed one of them.

These all might be a bit of a stretch but I think it really fits. Beyond that, it shows that Ekko can ACTUALLY help Jinx. As much as unconditional love can do, Ekko has the tools for Jinx's recovery and a path ready for her. He also probably knows that her "healthy" will look different from AU Powder's "healthy." On top of that, I expect he knows how to respect her even in the middle of psychotic breaks and won't agitate her already frail mental state