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9worldstales · 4 years

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MCU: Is Loki a serial betrayal or not?

So one of the things I see often discussed in the MCU is the long, long history of deceit and betrayal that goes on between Thor and Loki that got mentioned in “Thor – Ragnarok”.

As various MCU movies and comics get mentioned, I made a list of the sources referenced so you’ll know if they might end up spoiling you. Consider yourself warned (or feel free to skip the list if it bores you).

SOURCES MENTIONED:

Movies: “Thor” (2011), “The Avengers” (2012), “Thor – The Dark World” (2013), “Avengers: Age of Ultron” (2015), “Thor – Ragnark” (2017), “The Avengers – Infinity War” (2018), “The Avengers – Endgame” (2019), “WandaVision” (2021)

Comics: “Thor: Son of Asgard” (2004) “Marvel's The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week” (2012)

Direct-to-video animated film: “Thor - Tales of Asgard” (2011)

Motion comics: None mentioned

Books: “Thor: heroes and villains” (2011), “Marvel Studios The first 10 years” (2018)

Novels: “Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: Thor” by Alex Irvine (2015), “Thor: The Dark World Junior Novelization” by Michael Siglain (2013), “Loki – Where mischief lies” by Mackenzi Lee (2019), “The pirate angel, the talking tree and captain rabbit” by Steve Behling (2019)

Webs: None mentioned

Others: Interview “A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson”, interview “Joss Whedon told Comic-Con the question he doesn’t want us to ask ever again”, Interview “Chris Hemsworth (Thor: The Dark World)”, Interview “Tom Hiddleston Talks the Love-Hate of Loki and ‘Thor’”, Interview “Chris Hemsworth Talks Expanding Beyond Asgard, Interview “Building to THE AVENGERS 2, and More on the Set of THOR: THE DARK WORLD”, Interview “Chris Hemsworth ‘Thor: Ragnarok’, Embracing the Comedy, the Thor/Loki Relationship and More”, Interview “Avengers 4 Endgame: Is Loki ALIVE? Chris Hemsworth gave a massive hint at London fan event”, Interview “Avengers stars reveal one big downside to the job”, “How Taika Waititi Made Thor: Ragnarok So Damn Funny”, Interview “How 'Thor: Ragnarok' Honors & Deviates from Its Comics Foundation”, Interview “Empire Podcast Spoiler Special: Thor: Ragnarok with Taika Waititi”, interview “Kevin Fiege Talks Iron Man 2, The Avengers and More”

So now, let’s start with a quote from Eric Pearson, one of the guys responsible for the script of “Thor - Ragnarok”.

“Thor and Loki have had so many interactions, and alliances, and betrayals. They’ve been each others’ nemesis for so long that even they’re a little exhausted by themselves. It’s almost like the fatigue of dealing with each other allows this terminator like force of Hela to just walk in. They’re divided so she conquers.” [A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson]

So, since math is an awesome thing and “Marvel Studios The first 10 years” gave us an official timeline let’s do some math.

For start the official timeline.

965: Odin adopts Loki

2011: Thor

2012: The Avengers

2013: Thor: The Dark World

2015: Avengers: Age of Ultron

2017: Thor: Ragnarok, Avengers: Infinity War

2022: Avengers: Endgame (actually not mentioned in the timeline but it takes place 5 years after “Avengers: Infinity War”)

Loki is adopted in 965 so he and Thor are adopted brothers by 1052 years in “Thor - Ragnarok”.

So… “Thor” takes place in 2011 and overall covers three days and, in 2 of them, Thor and Loki are on opposing sides. At the end of “Thor” Loki is believed to be dead.

In 2012 Loki shows up again in “Avengers”. Thor arrives on Earth by night and spend there what, a day? before going back to Asgard with Loki, who then spends a year in jail with Thor never visiting him before he is freed in “Thor: The Dark World”, which takes place in 2013.

It’s worth to mention in “Thor: The Dark World” Thor and Loki are allied against Malekit before Loki is believed dead again and instead rules Asgard up until 2017, when “Thor – Ragnarok” takes place.

Anyway this means that in those 1052 years they spent together Loki and Thor had been on opposing sides for 6 years… during which only 1 year was spent with Thor knowing Loki was alive and only 4 days were spent with them actively fighting each other.

But maybe those days were days of intense betrayal… so let’s sum them up.

For start let’s remember everyone that betrayal is a deliberate break of trust, of faith.

“Thor” is the one which contain most betrayal, even though some things weren’t meant to be as such at the time in which it was filmed but whatever, let’s be strict.

- Loki ruined Thor’s coronation

- Loki had Odin warned they were going to Jotunheim so that Odin came saving their lives

- Loki lied about Odin being dead and Frigga not wanting Thor back.

- After making clear he was Thor’s enemy (I mean he sent the Destroyer to ‘Ensure his brother does not return’, could he have been more explicit?) he tricked him into helping him making him believe he was dangling on the edge of the Bifrost and needed his help.

Okay, that’s a total of 4, one of which done to save everyone’s live (and it saved everyone’s life but, as I said, I’ll be strict and still count 4).

“The Avengers” despite painting Loki as the villain, has no betrayal. Loki doesn’t make any attempt to paint himself as Thor’s friend, he doesn’t even call Thor ‘brother’, he makes clear he wants Earth’s crown and he has made clear in “Thor” he wouldn’t hesitate to kill him. Yes, he lies to him about sending the Tesseract away, uses an illusion to trick Thor into ending up in the cage and drop the cage on the ground and stabs Thor on surprise as they’re fighting. He however never let Thor believe they’re on the same side, I’ll say with dropping the cage he remarked how he wasn’t on Thor’s side since he wondered if the fall could kill Thor. If Thor didn’t want to get the message, this was not Loki betraying him, this was Thor refusing to listen. As for Loki surviving to a fall into the void and not warning Thor about it, that’s not betrayal either. When Loki let himself fall in the void it was a suicide attempt. His survival is a plot hole for whom Whedon didn’t really bother making up an explanation.

“Well, I can’t tell you exactly what went on because it’s this dark, dark secret that I didn’t make up yet. But, the other day, I had trouble with that because he had this very passionate Shakespearean tragedy thing going on in Thor and then I needed a villain who’s not only capable, but ready and willing and anxious to take on all these heroes. For me, he just basically went on some horrible walkabout… That was pretty much as far as I got.” [Joss Whedon told Comic-Con the question he doesn’t want us to ask ever again ]

“Avengers: Infinity War” suggested Thanos resurrected him, how is up to speculation. I wonder if it has to do with the mind stone, which somehow resurrected his mind in a way similar to how Wanda resurrected Vision. But I’m not sure Marvel really tried to figure this out beyond ‘it just happened’. Anyway Loki didn’t plan to fake his death, his survival/resurrection was accidental and he didn’t own to his family to send them a note saying ‘I’m alive’.

So we’ve a total of 0.

“Thor: The Dark World” has merely the fact that Loki again didn’t die when he was supposed to. Mind you, he was supposed to die (or if he were to survive this was meant to be a secret as the movie’s ending was meant to be very different), but then they decided to keep him alive and on the throne of Asgard for “Thor: Ragnarok”. So, he clearly was stabbed and let Thor believe the wound was fatal, then went back to Asgard, took Odin’s place, offered Thor the throne and when the latter refused, took it for himself. We can’t count the fact he told Kurse ‘You might want to take the stairs to the left’ as betrayal because, again, being jailed, he’s clearly not on Thor’s same side nor trusted. Betrayal is a break of trust from someone you believed on your side. An enemy doesn’t betray you, a friend does, and Thor stated he doesn’t view anymore Loki as his brother. We also know the action was a miscalculation on his part, he thought Kurse was merely a Marauder, a pirate, not a Dark Elf part of a Dark Elves’ invasion, and he didn’t think it would end up causing Frigga’s death, just some troubles for his father and brother who cast him in that cell and, according to the novelization, he was meant to end up regretting it short after doing it.

“The east stairs lead to the barraks. You’ll find them mostly unguarded.” Loki said and Kurse nodded, then continued on, glad for the inside information. Loki wanted revenge against Thor and Odin – he just hoped that he wasn’t getting more than he hoped for. [“Thor: The Dark World Junior Novelization”]

More explosions occurred aboveground and Loki glanced upward. “Don’t you think you ought to look into that?” he said. Thor scowled at his brother, then strode off toward the stairs. Loki watched his brother leave, a hint of guilt in his eyes. What had he done? [“Thor: The Dark World Junior Novelization”]

So okay, if we count the fact he let Thor believe him he died, and that he was Odin, we’ve a total of 2.

Which leads us to the amazing number of 6.

Now okay, betraying 1 time is 1 time too much but this is not a pattern that pervaded his whole life, this is 2 days in which Loki was not in his right mind due to pain (“Thor”) and a day in which he wanted to avoid being jailed for life as Thor has promised him he would be once they were to get back (“Thor: The Dark World”).

But, but, but, didn’t Loki betrayed and attempted to murder Thor PRIOR to “Thor”? And why aren’t I considering “Thor: Ragnarok” at all?

I mean, in addition to Loki betraying Thor for money, there’s this bit in “Thor: Ragnarok”:

Banner: Okay, can I just... A quick FYI, I was just talking to him just a couple minutes ago and he was totally ready to kill any of us.

Valkyrie: He did try to kill me.

Thor: Yes, me too. On many, many occasions. There was one time when we were children, he transformed himself into a snake, and he knows that I love snakes. So, I went to pick up the snake to admire it and he transformed back into himself and he was like, "Yeah, it's me!" And he stabbed me. We were eight at the time. [“Thor – Ragnarok”]

But the problem is to quote Wanda in“WandaVision” when her ‘brother’ talks about their shared childhood, this sort of relationship, well, ‘That’s not exactly how I remember it.’ From the previous movies, interviews, books, novels and extra material, I mean.

But let’s start with order.

So “Thor: Ragnarok”.

Remember Eric Pearson, the guy whose quote I used to start all this?

For start this guy never worked on a script with Thor and Loki previously.

The most he did was to be involved in the “Marvel's The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week” in which Thor and Loki have some cameo appearances.

So let’s hear what he has to say about Thor and Loki’s relation.

“For introductions, working on Thor’s voice was really great just because Hemsworth is great with the script. He actually pulled me aside one morning to talk to me about the Thor and Loki scenes. He pointed out, correctly so, that what I had was retreading a bit of what had already happened in Thor, Thor: The Dark World and The Avengers. We needed to have their relationship exhibit the amount of awareness that it should have after the audience spent so much time with them on screen. So, the Thor and Loki stuff is also some of my favorite.” [A Talk With THOR: RAGNAROK’s Eric Pearson]

So Hemsworth informed his opinion and which opinion has Chris Hemsworth of the whole matter?

Well, his opinion on Thor’s relationship with Loki evolved as time went by… but FIRST let’s focus on how he believed it was their relationship during or prior the “Thor” movie.

“In the very first film Loki and Thor as brothers had a friendship where there was less hatred involved.” [Chris Hemsworth (Thor: The Dark World)]

It’s not terribly explicative but let’s say that they were more or less friends? So his brother wasn’t trying to murder him from childhood? He wasn’t betraying him from childhood?

According to Thom Hiddleston definitely not.

“I think Loki grows up with an older brother who he loves and respects. They play, they banter and they bash each other about, but there is a latent jealousy. Craig Kyle ‐ one of our producers ‐ always used to talk about the analogy of the quarterback and the artist. Thor is the quarterback. He’s a chip off the old block and he’s just like his dad. Loki’s problem is, maybe not his problem, but [that] he’s more drawn to the powers of intellect, magic, and the dark arts. He’s not going to be out in the fields throwing a hammer around. That’s just not where his passion lies. There’s a disconnect with Odin and there’s a disconnect with Thor. He loves them very much, but he’s not just made of the same stalk. In the course of the film there’s a big reveal both for Loki and the audience about the truth of Loki’s true lineage and who his real parents are. I think that begets any jealous that was within him towards Thor develops into a dark, cancerous rage that then becomes a destructive rage.” [“Tom Hiddleston Talks the Love-Hate of Loki and ‘Thor’”]

And the ruining of the coronation? As the movie itself said it was done because he didn’t believe his brother was ready to rule… but let’s also read this bit always from Tom Hiddleston.

“He’s certainly not an anarchist who wants to burn the house down. I think he has an inner conviction. He loves a practical joke, he loves mischief and he loves playing around. He loves starting a bonfire in the next room and hearing people scream, but nobody would be killed.” [“Tom Hiddleston Talks the Love-Hate of Loki and ‘Thor’”]

In short it wasn’t meant to cause any serious harm... same as warning his father was meant to save them. Of the 4 times in “Thor” in which Loki betrays Thor, 2 are not done with evil intentions in mind.

But maybe it’s just Tom Hiddleston?

Nope, we’ve the booklet “Thor: heroes and villains” agree with this.

“Loki is often the voice of reason to Thor’s impulsiveness and is usually relied on to talk his older brother out of sticky situation.” [“Thor: heroes and villains”]

“As Odin’s younger son, Loki has always known the throne of Asgard will never belong to him. He has, however, tried his best to be a good brother to Thor and a son Odin could be proud of.” [“Thor: heroes and villains”]

Then we’ve this in the “Thor” movie:

Sif: He may speak of the good of Asgard, but he's always been jealous of Thor.

Volstagg: We should be grateful to him, he saved our lives.

Hogun: Laufey said there were traitors in the House of Odin. A master of magic could bring three Jotuns into Asgard.

Fandral: Loki's always been one for mischief, but you're talking about something else entirely. [“Thor”]

The group suspects Loki wants to hand Asgard to the Jotuns, but up till the end of the movie Loki will have Asgard’s best interests in mind. His way to pursue them though, by destroying the Jotuns, is beyond ruthless but it’s not traitorous toward Asgard.

Also they’ve nothing against him beyond the fact he was jealous of Thor. They mention no stabbing episode, no murdering attempt no previous betrayal. Loki was jealous and they fear this had caused him to do something extreme. NOW. They’ve nothing they can use against him from the past, their suspects are based on Loki’s jealousy, the fact he’s a wizard and Laufey’s words.

Even the “Thor” novelization, which discusses their relation, doesn’t mention murder attempts prior to the Destroyer thing.

From Thor’s point of view:

“His younger brother has always been something of a mystery to him. While Thor had been eager to spread his wings, fight in battles, and go off on grand adventures, Loki had always been more hesitant. True, he had Thor’s back, but it was often only out of necessity.” [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: Thor”]

From Loki’s point of view:

“Why did he always seem to get into trouble because of his older brother? Wasn’t he supposed to be the wiser one? Odin has expressly forbidden that they enter Jotunheim. Yet it wasn’t the first time Thor had done something reckless. And it wouldn’t be the first time Loki was powerless to stop him.” [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: Thor”]

Loki had Thor’s back, albeit he wasn’t happy about it, Thor is the one who causes troubles, everyone knows and in the novel Loki is regularly sent by Sif and the Warriors Three to calm Thor down and make him think.

Long story short Thor and Loki seemed to be originally planned to have a relationship similar to the one they had in “Thor - Tales of Asgard” direct-to-video animated superhero film which came out in the same year as “Thor”.

So, why somehow in “Thor: Ragnarok” it morphed into the one they have in the comics “Thor: Son of Asgard” (2004) if not worse?

Well, somehow Hemsworth’s feelings shifted along the way between “Thor: The Dark World” and “Thor: Ragnarok”. He was aware of how Loki and Thor’s relationship was portrayed in the comics and this bits fits with how in “Thor: Ragnarok” he just wants to tell Loki he didn’t care anymore.

I mean I can’t say too much but I think in the comic books, you kind of roll your eyes sometimes at the amount of times that they’re back to being best friends so we wanted to keep in mind that he did just try to kill you for the seventh time, and Earth and millions of people and what have you, so… [Chris Hemsworth Talks Expanding Beyond Asgard, Building to THE AVENGERS 2, and More on the Set of THOR: THE DARK WORLD]

Without giving too much away, I didn't want to repeat that relationship either. And Tom felt the same. All of us were like, ‘What can we do again here?’ There’s a bit of reversal as far as... In the first films, a lot of the time you’re seeing Thor going, 'Come back Loki, and da-da-da-da.' [But now] there’s a feeling from Thor that’s just like, 'You know what, kid? Do what you want. You’re a screw up. So whatever. Do your thing.' [Chris Hemsworth ‘Thor: Ragnarok’, Embracing the Comedy, the Thor/Loki Relationship and More]

"Ahhh, he's like the girlfriend you break up with and they don't get the message. Like, 'You're dead, sorry, it's over,' and they're coming round to hang the new drapes. "The most poignant moments (of Thor's movies) have been with Loki." [Avengers 4 Endgame: Is Loki ALIVE? Chris Hemsworth gave a massive hint at London fan event]

Until we get to “Avengers: Infinity War” in which he makes clear he believes Loki fooled him time and time again so that he doesn’t want him back…

While the cast share an obvious camaraderie, a void remains after Tom Hiddleston’s Loki died in Infinity War. Would Hemsworth bring back his troublesome onscreen brother if he could? “No. Why would I do that?” he answers, blankly. “He fooled me time and time again. But on the personal side, I was with Tom since the beginning of this journey and I learned a lot from him.” Hemsworth pauses. “If you’re asking if Thor would bring him back, I think if he could have done he would have. But for me, I don’t know.” [Avengers stars reveal one big downside to the job]

…even if Thor would have (and of course he would have if we’ve to believe Thor’s tears in “Avengers: Infinity War” and his depression in “Avengers: Endgame” are due to Loki’s death and it’s not merely due to how ‘fun’ it is to have a depressed Thor who ends up neglecting his health by drinking too much and getting fat… because being a source of amusement isn’t really a reason why you should introduce a depressed character in a story).

So yes, maybe Pearson didn’t go to the right source of info for Thor and Loki’s relationship.

However, credits when it’s due, the scene about Loki wanting to kill Thor from childhood is not so much due to Pearson or Hemsworth but due to Waititi.

Hewitt: You know, there’s another moment I love, when they have the little huddle about Loki, and he tells the story about how Loki turned into a snake.

Waititi: Yeah, yeah.

Hewitt: And that felt improv’d.

Waititi: Yeah, there was basically- what we did about six different versions of that story, and that was just us standing around, while the cameras are rolling, while I would just feed them lines, and feed Chris ideas for some stories. I was, “Oh, do one, this one, um, say, “I was walking through a field, and I saw a lovely Turkish rug in the middle of the grass, and I love Turkish rugs, so I went to stand on it, and it was Loki, and he turned back into Loki, and it was a hole, and I fell through the hole, and was impaled in the hole, full of spikes”.”

Hewitt: *laughs*

Waititi: As I did all versions of that and I just kept going with- Yeah, the one with the snake just turned out to be the one we used. [Taika Waititi On Screenwriting: An Empire 30th Anniversary Special]

And so how did Waititi envisioned the Thor-Loki dynamics? This is how Waititi describes Thor’s live:

“To be perfectly honest, he’s a rich kid who lives in a castle in outer space. I don’t know any of those people, but I do know people who come from dysfunctional families. He barely talks to his parents — well, his mom’s dead now — his brother is trying to kill him his entire life, and he’s supposed to be king, and he doesn’t want to be a king. A lot of it is also this father-son relationship stuff of him trying to prove himself, or trying to find his own identity, and I really relate to that. My dad was a very big personality in New Zealand and in our area, and I’ve always been trying to do my own thing to separate from him, while at the same time trying to impress him. Which is the story of pretty much all guys, and probably most girls, who are choosing a parent to impress. That was my way in with him.” [“How Taika Waititi Made Thor: Ragnarok So Damn Funny”]

Why Waititi came up with such an idea for their dynamics is up to everyone’s speculation because in itself it’s not important if he actually got told about it by Hemsworth, Pearson or by Brad Winderbaum, who admitted taking inspiration from the comics for “Thor – Ragnarok”…

“I'll tell you the three things we looked at the most. We're pulling a lot stylistically from Kirby [but] we're also looking at the Walt Simonson Ragnarok arc [and]… God of Thunder, the Jason Aaron book.” [How 'Thor: Ragnarok' Honors & Deviates from Its Comics Foundation]

… if this is the result of that 1 short comic he read…

“That’s a thing about me, guys, I did not do my research.” … “I read one issue of Thor as my research. Not even a graphic novel, it was one of the thin-thin ones.” … “And by the end of it, “Hm, well, we’re not doing that”. [Empire Podcast Spoiler Special: Thor: Ragnarok with Taika Waititi]

Waititi wanted to do his own story, not a continuation of the previous movies.

“I was lucky enough they didn’t force me to acknowledge things- there were certain things in the film, like the play, which makes fun of the scene in The Dark World where Loki dies, but there’s a point to that play, sort of to recap what happened, but also to tell the audience, “This is not what you think it’s going to be, this film is not going to be a continuation of that. It’s its own thing, and what you think you expect from this film ends at this play.”” [Empire Podcast Spoiler Special: Thor: Ragnarok with Taika Waititi]

This is not the point where I discuss what I think of this idea of stepping all over the previous movies to create a ‘new Thor’ that the Russo brothers proceeded to dismantle in the next movie.

In 2010 Feige was already on board with the idea ‘the movie comes first’ and the ‘connective tissue’ is fun and very important if you want it to be.

“It's never been done before and that's kind of the spirit everybody's taking it in. The other filmmakers aren't used to getting actors from other movies that other filmmakers have cast, certain plot lines that are connected or certain locations that are connected but I think for the most part, in fact, entirely everyone was on board for it and thinks that its fun. Primarily because we've always remained consistent saying that the movie that we are making comes first. All of the connective tissue, all of that stuff is fun and is going to be very important if you want it to be. If the fans want to look further and find connections than they're there. There are a few big ones obviously, that hopefully the mainstream audience will able to follow as well. But the most important thing and I think the reason that all the filmmakers are on board is that their movies need to stand on their own. They need to have a fresh vision, a unique tone and the fact that they can interconnect if you want to follow those breadcrumbs is a bonus.” [Kevin Fiege Talks Iron Man 2, The Avengers and More]

“Thor – Ragnarok” merely took it to an extreme, retconning a lot from the original to the point some feel “Thor – Ragnarok” is a parallel universe compared to the previous 4 movies, with its own canon.

So when they needed a joke they didn’t bother checking the previous canon, they just needed a joke and so they added that scene, and it somehow got so popular it got referenced in two novels, sorta, even if in both gets ‘adapted’.

Once he was in the room, the servant girl would likely go unnoticed enough to eavesdrop – certainly less noticed than a snake, which had been his initial plan, and which was easier to imitate than an Asgardian. But snakes tended to gather attention – Thor would pick up any serpent to admire it. [“Loki- Where mischief lies”]

In “Loki – Where mischief lies” by Mackenzi Lee the stabbing isn’t included, the book only keep Thor’s fascination for snakes and his habit to pick them up… but the scene couldn’t have happened when they were children as Loki is a teen in the book and has learnt only recently to use shapeshifting magic.

In “The pirate angel, the talking tree and captain rabbit” by Steve Behling the scene is partially retconned as well.

Where in the movie is played as a clear murder attempt in the book we’ve the same story but in a different contest.

“Hey, what did I tell you about insulting our guest?” Rocket scolded, shaking his head. “If anyone’s gonna do any insulting around here, it’s gonna be me.”

Groot looked at Rocket, and enacted an impressive-albeit obnoxious-imitation of the same sneet that Rocket used on Thor just few second earlier.

“I am-“

“Don’t finish that sentence,” Rocket warned.

“Gr-“

“I mean it! You wanna have tablet privileges revocked for a week, you go right ahead and finish that though.”

If Groot had pockets, he would have showed his limbs stubbornly into them, turned around grumbling, and walked away. As it was, he didn’t, so after a moment’s stare-off with Rocket he simply muttered, “I am Groot,” then ambled away.

“He’s in an awkward phase,” Rocket said to Thor by way of explanation, turning his attention to the master control panel.

“Adolescence is never easy,” Thor said looking over Rocket’s shoulder. “I remember when Loki and I were children. Loki transformed himself into a snake, and because I really, really love snake, I went to pick it up. But the moment I did, the snake transformed back into Loki, and then he stabbed me.”

It was at least ten second before Rocket spoke. And when he finally did, he sighed and said, “Why do I have the feeling you tell this story a lot? Like, A LOT.”

Thor smiled wanly. “Maybe a few times,” he acknowledged.

“I bet this Loki gets a big kick out of it every time you tell it,” Rocket said, chuckling.

The thin smile on Thor’s face quickly fell.

“Not anymore,” were the only words Thor could manage before he turned away. [“The pirate angel, the talking tree and captain rabbit”]

While in “Thor: Ragnarok” this story seems to be a proof Loki is an homicidal maniac because it’s compared to him wanting to kill Banner and Valkyrie and therefore, despite the idea this is a joke, make the whole matter a serious business, here Loki’s actions are compared to the ones of a teenager tree wanting to insult someone else and being told not to. It seems one of those stupid things little kids do in anger, or thinking it’s just a game, without really understanding the consequences they could have (=killing someone). Thor seems to almost brag about it, as if it was a funny childhood tale about the idiotic things they did as kids, not a cautious tale against his brother and the risks of trusting him.

It’s still a story that’s clearly out of character for how Loki was meant to be PRIOR to “Thor”, but at least now it’s better inserted in the contest and can fit vaguely more with the previous canon.

But whatever, that’s it.

So, in a way, we’ve two universes, one is the Pre-Ragnarok one, in which Loki prior to Thor loved his brother and had a good relation with him, and the other is the Ragnarok one, in which Loki wanted him dead from childhood.

Both exist.

It’s something a part of the fandom is well aware of, but also something another part of the fandom is ABSOLUTELY unaware of.

I’m not going to tell you which universe you’ve to favour, if the one in which Loki loved Thor or the one in which he wanted him dead, that’s up to your personal preference.

But if you’re among the many who’re still confused about why the fandom has split opinions about the relationship between the brothers… well, that’s a summary of the history behind it all.

Honestly, with the incoming “Thor – Love and Thunder” and “Loki” series, I’ve no idea what will be the future of it all. Waititi will probably want to go back to his “Thor – Ragnarok” continuity… unless he wants to reinvent Thor all over again so we’ll get another additional universe for Strange to enjoy in his upcoming “Doctor Strange in the multiverse of madness”… in addition to the universes created in “Avengers – Endgame” when the characters changed the past and the ones Loki will be creating in “Loki”.

Sorry, Doctor Strange, I guess you’ll have your hands full.

#thor #loki odinson #thor odinson #mcu #loki #9 worlds study

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cherryeol04 · 4 years

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The Firsts

Summary: No one ever told him that living was going to be so difficult. That there would emotions get couldn’t label and distinguish. He’s just a young boy trying to navigate through life and its unexpected ups and downs.

Genre: Humor, Fluff, smut(?)

Pairings: Oc x Felix, Oc x Changbin, Changbin x Oc x Felix

Warnings: poly relationship, angst in some part, excessive fighting about the MCU.

Parts: Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4 / Part 5 / Part 6 / Part 7 / Part 8 / Part 9 / Part 10 / Part 11 / Part 12 / Part 13 / Part 14 / Part 15 / Part 16 / Part 17

A/N: This story has a theme of Firsts. First love, first kiss and many other firsts. Each part can be read on their own and are meant to stand as oneshots. It’s basically a collection of oneshots (little snapshots into my Oc’s life. 😁)

Aiden didn’t understand why he was so nervous, standing in front of the unassuming oak door. It wasn’t a date, Felix had said so, despite all the teasing he had to endure afterwards. They were just watching movies for Aiden’s reputation. Otherwise, he would forever be teased about not seeing Marvel movies. He honestly hadn’t thought it was a bad thing to not be up on trends and the like, but now he had seen the true nature of his friends - the snakes - and learned his lesson.

‘Just knock. Just knock.’

Aiden willed his hand up, fist formed a bit too tightly. Three raps in quick succession and Aiden swallowed thickly. From inside he could hear a very faint ‘coming’ and his heart began to race, a cold sweat breaking out. He wanted so much to just turn around and run, not show up and give some crappy excuse as to why he couldn’t make it. But before his brain could connect with his feet, the door was already opening and Aiden was graced with the most beautiful smile and the most handsome face he had ever seen.

“Hey!”

“H-Hi.” Aiden kicked himself for stuttering - it wasn’t cute. He cleared his throat as he brought his hands behind his back and grasped them, thumbs twirling together in secrecy. “So, ready for our marathon?” He asked and Felix nodded his head quickly, stepping aside so Aiden could come inside. Aiden wanted to be amazed at the house, but it honestly wasn’t anything spectacular. It was similar to his own, modest for a small family - though a tad bit cleaner than his own.

He was most taken by the sight of Felix alone, because outside of their normal school uniform, he hadn’t really seen Felix in anything else. His fashion style was baggy. Oversized everything that just looked so comfortable that Aiden wanted to crawl up in there with him and cuddle him. It didn’t help that Felix was adorning a bright fluorescent orange hoodie that had to be at least two sizes too big on him and gave him the cutest sweater paws he had ever seen. Aiden wasn’t sure if this was what love was, but he sure as hell knew he wanted to wrap his arms around Felix and paint his face with kisses.

He refrained though, as hard as it was. “I got everything set up in my room.” Felix told him, the front door closing. Stepping around Aiden, he started for the stairs and Aiden followed obediently. “So we’re gonna start with Iron man.”

“Oh, so then I can date you?” Aiden instantly regretted the question as soon as he asked it, and quite literally facepalmed with a resounding smack! Felix paused on the stairs and turned to look back at him, amusement written across his face as he raised a brow.

“Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.” He said with a laugh. It was joke, he was laughing it off but there was still a part of Aiden that was hoping there was something there. That maybe Felix would reciprocate. Felix turned back and Aiden silently followed the other up the rest of the stairs and to the room. This was going to be a long day.

~*~

They made it through Thor when both boys realized the time. Including breaks between movies and dinner, the time had flown and it was nearing nine. Not nearly late enough to go to bed on the weekend, but early enough where Aiden should probably head home. And he would have if a hand hadn’t grabbed his wrist, pulling him back down on the comfy bed he had been resting on just moments prior.

“Ask your mom if you can spend the night.” It was a soft suggestion, dare Aiden even think of it as a plea. The idea had crossed his mind many times during the day but he wasn’t sure if it was a good idea, what with his emotions just hanging between them like a thousand-pound weight ready to collapse on them at any given moment.

“Come on, Felix. I don’t think I can sit through another movie.” Aiden whined. A lie - boldfaced but his only logical excuse as to why he could leave.

“We don’t have to watch anymore.” Felix said as he sat up from his slouched position against the wall. “We could watch YouTube or something and just hang out.”

Chewing on his bottom lip lightly, Aiden nodded as he pulled his phone out of pocket and shot his mom and quick text, asking if he could spend the night. The reply came only a few beats later and he smiled lightly. “She said it was okay.”

“Awesome! I’ll find you something to wear!” Felix said as he scrambled off the bed and Aiden could feel his pulse quicken at the thought of wearing Felix’s clothes. Would they smell like him? Would they be just as comfortable as they looked on him? Felix dug around in his dresser, first tossing a pair of pants towards Aiden and then a shirt. “That should be good.”

“Thanks.” Aiden smiled as he picked up the articles of clothing and stood for the bed. He headed out of the room and to the bathroom just down the hall to change. Aiden was actually surprised to find that Felix’s clothes for him rather well, and they were just as cozy as he imagined. There was still a little bagginess in the sleeves, but it was really nice. He brought the front of his shirt up to his nose, sniffing lightly, a smile spreading across his lips at the honey scent that filled his senses.

This was Felix.

“God I’m whipped.” He muttered to himself with a shake of his head. He grabbed his clothes, folding them nicely before carrying them back into Felix’s room. Felix was laying in his bed, pillow clutched to his chest as he stared at the YouTube screen on his TV. As Aiden made his way to the bed, Felix lifted his gaze and smiled.

“Oh my gosh! You’re so cute!” Felix squealed, sitting up. “I didn’t think you would look so cute in my clothes.” Aiden couldn’t stop the blush that spread over his cheeks, eyes lowering to stare at the ground.

“Thanks.” Silence fell between them and Aiden wondered if Felix even heard him. It wasn’t an awkward silence, but Aiden wasn’t entirely sure what to do now and he blamed it on the fact he hadn’t been around Felix that much. Their interactions were sporadic but fun, yet being alone with him like this was different. Aiden was afraid that maybe he wasn’t that interesting to be around - mundane and boring.

Arms wrapped around his waist and he jerked, head flying up and connecting with the side of Felix’s jaw. “Oh shit!” He gasped out, hands reaching up to cup Felix’s face and examine the already reddening skin. “I am so sorry!”

“It’s okay.” Felix spoke, jaw tense as he fought through the pain. “I shouldn’t have scared you like that.” He said as he reached up and tentatively touched the sore area.

“I should have been paying attention. I’m so stupid.” Aiden muttered softly. His fingers lightly grazed over the area Felix had just been touching and he could feel the warmth of it. “That’s really got to hurt. Let me go get some ice for it.”

“Or you could kiss it and make it better.” Felix offered and Aiden stilled. His eyes connected with Felix’s, wide and unsure if he heard right. Kiss it? Like actually kiss it? Put his lips on Felix? He was pretty sure that he was messing with him at this point.

“Don’t be silly. That’s not gonna help.” He protested and lowered his hands. “I’ll go get some ice for it, okay? Just go sit back down.” He tried to usher Felix back to the bed, but the other was being stubborn and not budging from his spot, which was annoying Aiden. All he wanted to do was help the other! Now was not the time for games.

Felix let out a huff, hand grabbing his wrist and holding it tightly, grounding him in his spot. “Changbin wasn’t kidding, you really are a virgin.” It came out as a frustrated sigh and it left Aiden gapping in shock. “You can’t even tell when someone is flirting with you.”

“F-Flirting?!” Aiden sputtered incredulously. “Since when?”

“Since Iron Man 2 when I started cuddling you.” Felix stated matter of factly and Aiden just gaped at him. “I know you can be silly and little dense, but come on Aiden.” Felix said, head tilting slightly to the side and just gave him this look.

“Okay, but I’ve never...” Aiden trailed off, embarrassed by the words that wanted to fall from his lips. Everyone already knew he was “virgin” thanks to Changbin’s big mouth but it was actually embarrassing at how innocent he actually was - with the exception of the things he did with Changbin in the privacy of their bedrooms.

“Cute.” Felix cooed and poked Aiden’s cheeks lightly, pulling a soft laugh from him as he tried to wiggle away from Felix, but the hand on his wrist kept him from going too far. “I like you.”

Aiden felt his heart stop - it was just as dramatic as he was - before beating rapidly in his chest as those words slowly sunk in. Felix liked him? It couldn’t be. There was no possible way. “Like as a friend right?”

“Well yeah.” Felix nodded and chuckled. “But I like you as more than a friend as well. And I was wondering if maybe you wanted to go out sometime, on a date?” Suddenly Felix was shy, blushing and looking at anything but Aiden and it was just the cutest thing he had ever witnessed. It was an impulse - he wrapped his arms around Felix and hugged him tightly, pulling him close to his body.

“Is that a yes?” Felix asked as he carefully wrapped his arms around Aiden’s waist gently, hands resting on the small of his back.

“It’s a big fat yes.” Aiden muttered against Felix’s shoulder. He pulled back slowly and looked at Felix, smirking. “It’s because I watched Iron Man right?” He asked.

“Totally. You made it to Thor, that means we can also kiss.” Felix said and leaned in to do just that, but Aiden dodged him, pulling back with a shy smile.

“Aiden?”

“Not yet.” Aiden told him with a slight nod. “I wanna at least get to the Spider-Man saga before we kiss.” He told him. Felix stared at him and nodded, chuckling softly.

“Alright then, it’s a date.”

“Perfect! Now let me get you ice for your jaw.” Aiden said and before Felix could protest, he ran out the room, heart still hammering in his chest at the confession.

Did this make Felix his boyfriend? He sure as hell hoped so, he had wanted this for so long. To finally be able to date the guy he had been crushing on for so long, it was like a dream come true. He couldn’t wait to see what the future held for them.

#stray kids #skz #stray kids fanfic #skz fanfic #stray kids au #fanfic #skz au #stray kids au fanfic #skz au fanfic #au story #humor #fluff #the firsts #changbin x oc #felix x oc #changbin x oc x felix

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hackedmotionsensors · 5 years

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Here we go Endgame lets talk about it!

BELOW THE CUT

So I’ll say this!!! Over all!!! I liked it a lot. For a lot of reasons.

I also HAAAATTTEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDD a lot of some of the choices. That’s okay. We can have mixed feelings about movies especially the end of a saga. I think they did a good job of getting nods where they needed nods, bringing in storylines from previous movies and conversations that needed to happen.

And they fucking whiffed it on at least THREE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS!!!

So lets start with what I liked.

1) STEVE TONY EVENT. DO YOU HEAR ME IT WAS A STEVE TONY EVENT aaaah oh my god. From the second Tony lands back on the planet and Steve RUNS to him before even Pepper and he’s holding him and just the look of agony as Pepper takes him away and the fight where Tony says ALL THE SHIT WE HAD BEEN SAYING!!!! WHERE WERE YOU! YOU LIAR!!! and he RIPS HIS HEART OFF OF HIS CHEST AND GIVES IT TO STEVE BECAUSE YOU FUCKING BROKE HIS HEART YOU FUCKING FUCKED UP STEVE!!!!! FUCKK!!!! And then reconciling because “Resentment is corrosive” UGHHH!!! And Steve just barely containing himself when Tony shows up ughh!! UGHHH!!!!!!! AND THE ASS JOKE!!! THERE’S NO HETEROSEXUAL EXPLANATION ABOUT THAT!!!! TONY SAW STEVES ASS AND WAS LIKE TAN FRANCED IT LIKE BITCH YOU NEED AN FRENCH TUCK OF MY DING DONG IN YOUR BUTT!!! and Steve over the intercom being like “omg tony not in front of the kids” AND A STEVETONY SOLO MISSION!!!!!!

A STEVE TONY...

SOLO

MISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TONY CALLING STEVE MY MAN WOW. WOW. FUCKING EXCELLENT ON ALL ACCOUNTS THANKS SO MUCH!! I was given some bread thank you I will eat this stevetony bread nom nom nom nom nom.

2) Tony’s arc in this story was really beautiful. He finally got what he wanted, some perspective and closure with Howard. And I know initially you want to go “Hey Howard was really abusive” and yeah he was. But its complicated. Because Tony even says in Homecoming he was trying to break the cycle of abuse and he DID with Peter and Morgan. You can see just HOW MUCH he cares for his daughter and he was willing to say fuck you to the UNIVERSE in favor of not losing her. Its always a different perspective when you see your parents as people and not as YOUR PARENTS.

Also Tony lying on the table with Natasha UuU. A lot of the interactions with Tony and the other characters were so good. Tony and Rocket. Tony and Nebula. Tony and Carol (tho brief). Tony arguing with Pierce like his little gay senses were like “This guys a nazi I bet”

3) I genuinely liked the Time Heist. I DID NOT LIKE THE RULES OF TIME TRAVEL IN THIS MOVIE BUT I’LL GET TO THAT. But I looooved the Time Heist. From the New York stuff with Steve fighting Steve and knowing his dumbass loses his shit when he hears things like “Bucky’s still alive” and being done with his own stupid shit “I can do this all day” “YEAH I KNOW” (which btw at this point was basically the last thing he said to Tony in Civil War so maybe that doesn’t have its plucky little fire anymore and now is a sore spot). I loved Loki running away with the Space Stone (even tho as of now I’m still not sure what the FUCK THAT MEANS!? more on that in a sec) Loki making fun of Cap. Loki rolling his eyes at Odin. Tony dressed in a shield outfit screaming Medic!!! The gang all on the elevator and Hulk screaming about it and LOKI WAVING HIS HAND AT THE HULK AS THE DOORS SHUT!! TONY SITTING ON THE BRIEFCASE! SCOTT GOING “how the FUCK did you not know they were Hydra LOOK AT THEM They’re a COP!” Then jumping forward to the 70s and Steve’s legs that went all the way up to his asshole and Tony dressed as a doctor

I drew a doodle of it here you go lol I’ll post it properly later

oh did this not happen? Idk what movie you were watching.

4) The big battle at the end was SO FUCKING COMIC BOOK I WAS LOSING IT. Also I keep calling it the Battle of Five Armies or Return of the King lol T’challa BATHED IN A HALO OF LIGHT LIKE YES WE STAN A KING. MY WIFE

MY.

WIFE!!!!!!!!

VALKYRIE!!! ON HER BEAUTIFUL WHITE HORSE!!!! (also not being given an actual name and called Valkyrie is the funniest goddamn thing. Like that’s like going into a Footlocker and talking to the manager but calling them Manager)

CAROL!!!!!! WITH HER BUTCH ASS HAIRCUT PUNCHING THANOS IN THE MOUTH AND WRECKING HIS SHIT

WANDA FINALLY FUCKING FLYING. LIKE. F L Y I N G. THAT is what the Scarlet Witch is SUPPOSED TO DO!! SHE’S SUPPOSED TO BE SO POWERFUL IT TOOK EVERYONE TO TAKE HER DOWN CMON!!!!!! And she almost got him too. Honestly if it were down to Carol and Wanda they probably could have ended Thanos alone.

Korg coming back for more comic relief AND PUTTING HIM IN TAIKA’S PINEAPPLE ONESIE!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING.

5) This is controversial. And I know it won’t age well. And that’s okay and feel free to disagree with me entirely.

But I liked Fat Thor lmfao. I know it was played as a joke for the wrong reasons but I laughed. I was like fuck yes his belly looks like mine and that’s not why it was funny and it SHOULDN’T BE but I laughed lol. But on the other hand I think it had partially to do with Hemsworth constantly being like “no no we don’t need a shirtless scene” or just sort of a gag at how Marvel always has a shirtless scene and its just kind of funny to have it not be someone cut. EVEN THOUGH its a fat suit and I can’t take off my fat suit but Hemmy can and that’s kinda shitty.

but I laughed. I can’t help it. He was a whole ass mess and I thought it was funny. And I know there are Thor fans out there who wanted more for him but like I said before this was a SteveTony event. This movie and this win worked because it was Steve and Tony finally coming together again.

It felt honestly the most comic book Avengers of the entire series.

And true to comic book events

it whiffed the landing.

Before I get into dislikes I’ll say that I liked this movie more than I disliked it. I cried H A R D at the end of the movie. Because its not a movie that’s an on its own kind of movie. You had to have gone through the journey to get here. The pay off is completely lost if you only watch this movie. Or you only watch one or two of the MCU. Or if you’re like a few people I’ve talked to where they only like Steve and Tony. Or they only like Thor and Loki. Or they only like the Guardians and hate the avengers. If you have hate in your heart for any of these characters the payoff of this movie is pretty much lost.

The theme of this movie is clearly about moving on when things come to an end. When things stop or end or we lose people we love you have to move on. Steve says that at the beginning of the movie to our apparent gay representative straight director Joe Russo.

But like Tony said before.

Steve’s a fucking liar lmfao

But lets not start there. Lets start with the fucking timeline.

I hate.

I H A T E EEEEEEEEE TIME TRAVEL!!!!!! AS A PLOT!!!!!!! WITHOUT ANY RULES!!!!!!!!!

I enjoyed what we SAW of the Time travel but the rules itself DIDN’T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE.

So when they’re suiting up Hawkeye for the test run Bruce explicitly says that all these movies that say “if you go into the past and fuck up the past you fuck up the timeline and the present/future is fucked because you’ve changed things”

ARE WRONG. HE SAYS THEY ARE WRONG. He says “If you go into the past. The past becomes your present. But the present then becomes your future. So you can’t go back and un fuck your parents to make you. Or kill baby Thanos. because that happened and you can’t change that but you can change youre present”

WHICH DOESN’T

MAKE ANY

FUCKING

SENSE. BECAUSE THEN YOU AREN”T TIME TRAVELING!!!!!!!!!

If you go into the past yes YOU are in your present but the world is still being written around you STILL so you go into the past and change something (loki making off with the space stone) that’s CHANGED. You’ve created a new reality.

THEY EXPLICITLY SAY THIS IN DOCTOR STRANGE AND Y’ALL I KNOW DOCTOR STRANGE WAS BORING AS HELL BUT IF YOU’RE GOING TO USE TIME TRAVEL AS YOUR STORY DEVICE THEN YOU CAN’T SAY THAT SHIT IN DOCTOR STRANGE DOESN’T WORK WHEN YOU’VE ESTABLISHED IT AS THE RULES OF TIME TRAVEL.

THE ANCIENT ONE EVEN SAYS “you create a new reality. And it fucks shit up”

LIKE!?!?!??!

WHAT THE HELL!!!

So now Loki has the time Stone in reality B, in reality A Steve goes back and puts the stones back where they belong (and I guess.....gives the soul stone to Red Skull????????? wouldn’t you try to get Natasha back????like that itself is a whole movie of Steve going back and putting things away but ??????)

And then we get to the end of the movie where Steve says Fuck you to Peggy’s reality A family and now on this timeline where they’ve time traveled he lived an entire life WITH Peggy but like.......you were Captain America and you just said “No don’t worry about JFK being assassinated. Or the Civil Rights movement. Or stopping Bucky in any capacity. Or maybe saving MLK. Or Peggy continuing to join SHIELD. Or stopping ACTUAL NAZIS from infiltrating SHIELD.

Because if you go with this idea that Steve went back and “lived a life” What did he DO then. What did he FUCKING. DO?

You’re not Steve from 1940s going back to 1940s. You’re Steve form 2019 going back to 1940s. No wifi. No medicine. No cell phones? Gays are still being persecuted. You can’t drink from the same fountain as black people (or rather they can’t drink from your white fountain).

You are.

CAPTAIN.

AMERICA.

and you just said nah fuck it its fine? This shit can all happen but I don’t super care because I get to dance with Peggy. Peggy who on her own had this whole life. Who did all this stuff IN YOUR NAME IN YOUR HONOR. Who married someone else. Who had a FAMILY. Who had a NIECE that you made out with. And just..... wha....

Like if he had gone back and danced with her but came back with Natasha in exchange for the soul stone but during his travels had aged. Or met someone else.

Like movie wise and story wise I get wrapping up Steve’s story. And maybe the person Peggy is talking about in the video of her in TWS is actually Steve from 2019. Maybe that’s it. But it still doesn’t make sense because they FUCKED UP THE RULES OF TIME TRAVEL SO WHO THE FUCK KNOWS.

So. lol I wasn’t a huge fan of Steve at the end of the movie. I know they needed to do something to end the movie with a finality. With Steve being DONE. But instead of finality or closure I just have so many goddamn questions. And I don’t hold it against Evans or even really the directors per say. But I’ll blame Markus and McFeely because they were writing since TWS. They HAD the Cap STORYLINE to write about and that was how they ended it.

its like when you pack for a very important trip and you plan out all your outfits but then wake up late and end up throwing whatever you can find into your suitcase and run out the door.

It felt final and not final.

But I’ll tell you this. From my perspective and obviously I’m going to skew it this way because its me and FEEL FREE to disagree with me.

He left because Tony and Natasha were dead. The two people that he felt the closest to (sorry Sam, Bucky and Sharon [who we didn’t even see as dusted wow]) were gone. Natasha and Steve had become a brother and sister. He would always come back for her clearly. Trying to cheer her up as she’s crying. Natasha understanding Steve’s feeling of being lost. Tony inspiring and fighting with Steve. Like that’s part of what I liked about this is taht you could really feel how Steve and Tony needed each other for this to work but also they needed to not hate each other.

Also I kinda knew the second Scott said “That’s a one way trip!!” before the 70s bit that Steve was going to stay in the past lol What an asshole.

Also I don’t think it was very UN-Captain America because I think people don’t always realize that a lot of the inspo for the MCU came ALSO from Ultimates. And if Ults Cap was able to go back to the past he would have in a heartbeat. Who was a more depressed Cap? Ults or MCU? I just don’t know.

Now.

Natasha.

This was another one I kind of saw coming from a mile away as soon as it was just the two of them on Vormir. I was kind of hoping they’d Hawkeye a way out of the deal by like throwing his daughters picture or something like that. Or that it would be Hawkeye. But they both had an upcoming movie/series so I didn’t know which way it went.

And then there was that big jump. And I was like oh my god they did it right

AND THEN THEY FUCKING DIDN’T.

Wow. Wowwwwwwwwww

Markus and McFeely

REALLY DID THAT

THE RUSSO BROTHERS REALLY DID THAT

THEY DID THE SAME FUCKING SCENE TWICE.

The first time you get because Thanos is a dick and abusive and he would absolutely throw his favorite daughter into the soul pit (which I guess Isn’t picky because she didn’t love him back she hated him but I guess its a one way street with the ol’ soul stone)

And they don’t say during that one (far as I remember) that its a permanent exchange.

But they sure emphasized this time. And they sure killed the original avenger who was the only girl on the team. Who never got a chance to live.

Who Whedon made herself call heself a monster because she can’t have a family and then she gets a found family and then SHE DIES. THEY KILL HER. AFTER HAVING A FAMILY.

WHAT THE FUCK. Like...my problems with Scarjo aside (which are similar with my problems with Paltrow) You DID. BLACK. WIDOW. FUCKING. DIRTY. I don’t care that there’s a movie coming out that was her story. You were supposed to give her a fucking story. And now her story is only how she relates to her TEAM OF MEN.

And now to my last point that I didn’t like. And I don’t hate this one as much as Steve’s ending or Natasha’s ending.

I don’t like that Tony died. I know this is wrapped up in a lot of emotions I have about Tony Stark the character. Robert Downey Jr the person. Tony Stark the character in all his forms is very important to me and I love that he has many forms. 616, Ults, AvAc, Avengers Assemble, the MCU. But his story is important to me. And its heartbreaking. I’m tearing up a bit now writing this out.

I’m just the type of person that hates that a character, in a fantasy setting where you have wizards, valkyries, robots, talking raccoons and trees, Dave Bautista, a giant green rage monster wearing chinos, that you have to take this one part and make it realistic. That we have to keep realism kill this character off because it doesn’t make sense if someone doesn’t die. Because the stakes aren’t high if you don’t make them personal as well.

Which is true like you don’t have high stakes (the planet or universe getting dusted) if you don’t are about some of the people in that universe personally.

I just would have rather he had retired. Moved onto his little farm with Pepper and Morgan.

I think they did right by Tony. Storywise, ending...all the stuff the dropped the fucking ball on with Natasha and Steve they gave to Tony. And on one hand I get it and I appreciate that because (sorry to nat and steve fans truly) I care more about Tony. Tony started this whole thing. In a miracle of accidents they got the right actor, the right story, the right character, the right director, the right timing technology wise, the right social mood and made solid gold. And none of this would have happened if it weren’t for that amazing accident that happened.

And I think it has more to do with not wanting to let go or move on even though i can always go back to Iron Man 1 at any point and start the journey over again and have a laugh but there’s always going to be that ending where its final. Its done. Its over. And in the simplest of terms. I don’t like it. You have to know when to bow out and I respect and appreciate that. I don’t wanna see Iron Man 8 with geriatric old RDJ trying to fumble into a mocap suit.

I understand. I appreciate. But I don’t have to like it as a person. And that’s okay.

Its all about moving on isn’t it? That’s the theme of the movie. Moving on.

Even if you’re steve and your moving on wipes out the existance of a whole other family lmfaaoidnsfasfada sorry sorry.

Okay. yeah that’s all I think I can think of. I’m sure there’s a ton more other people have mentioned aside from what I wrote. Like its a LONG movie and I think its hard to say hey “they fucked this up” or “they got this right” for EVERY SINGLE THING. There were so many characters. Nebula’s story could have been better. Thor’s story could have been more involved. Hawkeye could have been more important throughout the series. Janet could have come back for the final fight and healed Tony. Like there’s a ton of “this COULD have happened” But it didn’t. And that’s okay. It may not be right but its okay. I think they wrapped it up as best you could while still making a good movie. I think you probably can go back after a long while and look at the Endgame and go yeah that wasn’t so bad for an ending. Endings are hard to do with any sort of skill. Its why the joke that the third movie always sucks.

There’s still a ton of stuff to look forward to.

Falcon/Winter Soldier, Loki, Hawkeye, Wanda and Vision (i GUESS??? lol), Black Widow’s movie.

Maybe Steve solved more than he let on who knows. WHO KNOWS. Maybe Mjolnir left him haflway through the journey when she knew he was going to ditch his 2019 family (who again....mostly dead now)

I love Tony 3000. Which I found out is more than a ton which makes Morgan Stark a lot smarter than I am lmfao

#avengers: endgame spoilers #endgame spoilers #avengers endgame spoilers #spoilers

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answers-only · 5 years

Text

Loki fic recs (that nobody asked for, but here you go) part 1

Uhh so, I decided to do this. Most of these fics (all of them, I think) are Loki centric. There's all kinds of ships, AU, angst, etc. in this one, I like all kinds of stuff. This is my first time, so I'm sorry for mistakes, I'm also not a native english speaker. Thank you :D

Gen, Loki & Guardians of The Galaxy, some angst but not really, WIP but updating frequently.

Loki ends with the GoTG after falling from the Bifrost in Thor 1. Shenanigans ensue.

Okay, I really love this one. It's incredibly fun to read, and while there is alot of chapters (100+), they're not really long. I love Lokis interactions with the GoTG team (feat. Baby Groot), it's incredibly fun. It's also worth to read the notes at the end of the chapters, I laughed out loud more then once.

Genderfluid!Loki/Tony, AU, quite a lot of angst, Odin's A+ parenting, it's also quite the mix between Norse Mythology, MCU and Comics.

So basically, A1 happens, but all the OGs exept Tony are dead/not there. Tony flyed into the void and got... Sent? Catapulted? cca 1000 years into the past, and to Asgard. He meets Genderfluid!Loki and KindOf?Mythology!Thor. He learns magic. Frigga's awesome. Odin's a bastard. Oh yeah, and the events of T1 happen like halfway through.

Wow, so another one of my favourites. It's... Just really amazing. The characters are fantastic, Tony's smart, Loki's a sweatheart, Thor's... there, and uhh... ginger? Frigga's the best mom, and I hate Odin more than I can physically say.

Loki & everyone, AU, a shitload of angst, and like one sex scene in the first one.

Loki doesn't get found by Odin at the beginning of T1. Shit happens.

Okay, so this one is really long. Like really, really, really long. I'm reading this for like two weeks now, I'm not even halfway through. From the tags I know that Loki's supposed to meet the Avengers and shit, but the events of T1 happen only like now, so I have no idea. But also, this fic is gorgeous. The story is fantastic, characters great, and the writing is amazing.

Gen, Loki & (Tony, Thor, Jane, Hela, Stephen Strange, Rhodey), Ragnarok AU, I really cried at one point, WIP.

Thor Ragnarok with competent writing. Loki & Tony friendship. Loki & Jane friendship which I just adore. Loki & Thor with an actually good relationship. Hela's here, and she's great. Oh, and Jane still exists, and she's amazing & Loki's friend! Also a Loki vs. Stephen Strange fight scene (I just love that one).

This is probably my favourite. I really hated Thor Ragnarok, and this fic does what Ragnarok did, but it does it really good, and also with Jane (because she didn't just stop existing) and Tony. The autor is updating painfully slow (cca every 3-4 months), but when they do, it's... perfection itself. Definitely worth the wait.

Gen, Loki & The Avengers, Odin's a bitch most of the time, post Thor: TDW.

So, the Norns show up on Earth and take the Avengers to Asgard. Then they, Loki, Odin and the Norns sit down, and Loki talks. Basically a recap to the Avengers about what happened in T1, A1 and T:TDW. Later they have a friendly fight, and the Warriors 3 and Sif show up. Open ending.

So this is a really easy to read fic. It's mostly Loki talking about shit he doesn't want to talk about, and bonding with the Avengers (mostly Tony and Thor). It's very good.

Rape/Non-Con TW!! Loki/Tony, Slave!Loki AU, I hate Odin so much, Thor's not exactly great but he tries, feat. Pepper Potts.

Tony goes to a business trip to Alfheim. He finds Loki working there as a sex slave. He takes him home. Angst.

So... yeah I have a thing for Slave!Loki. This one is really good tho.

Gen, one shot, Loki & Nebula.

Loki and Nebula form a team.

It's really short and really good.

Gen, Loki & Nebula, Gamora POV, post Ragnarok.

The GoTG team up with The Revengers on The Statesman. Loki and Nebula become friends. Thor's a dick. Also one Peter & Loki interaction, and it's gold. It's the reason why I ship them so hard.

I really love the characters and their dynamics with each other. Basically Loki & Nebula, Loki & Gamora, Gamora & Nebula.

Gen, Loki & everyone, angst, very much angst, one shots.

50 chapters where Loki suffers and interacts with other characters. But mostly suffers.

I love to watch Loki suffer. Also his interactions with others are gold.

Loki/Tony, TDW AU, Thor, Odin, W3 and Sif are evil dicks, Loki isn't, BAMF Loki.

Loki escapes after TDW. He's depressed for a while. He teams up with The Avengers against Asgard. Ironfrost ensues.

This was written by a very bitter Kadorienne in 2013. Lmao imagine her watching Ragnarok. I love this fic. I also really love TDW, but I really get where she's coming from, and I also really love bitter people. Definitely read other fics from her, she's great.

#loki #loki & thor relationship #loki fic #fic rec #loki/tony #loki angst

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tepkunset · 5 years

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So here’s my extremely belated thoughts on Avengers: Infinity War asjdhadg basically a summary can be I am way too much of a gay X-Men comic stan for this bullshit

Everyone except Thor, Gamora, Rocket and Nebula really drank a full vat of dumb bitch juice for this one huh.

Like, it is really hard to be invested in the deaths of all the Wakandans treated like canon fodder in order to maybe save the life of one (1) robot man. I don’t care how sentient he is, I don’t care if he was a real person, no one in their right mind would actually risk the lives of not just a whole nation, the whole universe, for one person. The T’Challa I know certainly would never. He’d tell the Avengers to get their shit together and make the hard but necessary choice for the greater good of, you know, the universe. But no, he’s apparently super cool with letting all his people die because MCU’s version of Scarlet Witch thinks her robot boyfriend is more important.

And don’t even get me started on Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man and the Guardians up in space. Here’s an idea, why doesn’t Strange just do the exact same thing Wong did in the beginning of the movie and use a portal to just cut off the glove? Or better yet, the head? Why would you show that as an option and then not do it with the big bad guy??? And then. Oh my god. And then Star-Lord what, starts slapping him around for... what reason, exactly? Because he killed Gamora? He was willing to suck it up and do what MCU’s Scarlet Witch wouldn’t and kill her himself because he trusted her, earlier. Don’t get me wrong, he should absolutely be furious and devastated, but I don’t see Nebula pulling that shit!

And yes, all these things are valid questions to ask, and I reject the notion that you’re supposed to ‘turn off your brain’ when watching a movie. It doesn’t work like that. Hell, even Deadpool 2 does a better job at explaining why obvious questions the audience will ask won’t work, even if it is for a joke about lazy writing, it’s better than no writing at all.

Speaking of Gamora’s death, I just about lost it over that. The way Thanos starts to cry and the music swells, and later the scene after he snaps and sees her as a girl... Do NOT tell me we are actually supposed to feel sorry for this ultimate moron. Then later in the film you have that scene with Okoye, MCU’s Black Widow and MCU’s Scarlet Witch teaming up as a ‘girl power’ moment I guess, but sorry dudes, you don’t get to do that after what you pulled with Gamora. Making her death all about the angst of the male villain. The villain, mind you. The villain who kidnapped her and abused her.

Maybe instead of trying to make Thanos sympathetic when you can’t--there is nothing sympathetic about a guy who’s so fucking stupid he thinks over-population is the cause of all problems and so he’s gonna kill everyone as a solution, when a basic fucking understanding of how society works is all it takes to know otherwise and that over-population is a myth--you just let him be horny for death like in the comics? Thanos is not that complicated a villain. I mean sure, you can have your villain’s big Fatal Flaw be that he’s the dumbest bitch in the galaxy. But for fuck sake, the fact that no one, no one at all ever points out that he’s wrong, but instead we have to listen to retcons about Gamora’s planet prospering because of his mass murder, tells me they actually thought he was being logical. Dumb bitch juice. You tried to make him complicated and ended up just making the entire movie nonsensical.

The only plot among the hundred different plots that made sense and I was actually invested in was Thor’s. Every time the movie went back to him, it was one giant relief. And even still, I hate that they basically quickly scrubbed their hands with all events of Ragnarok because they had other ideas. The movie opens up with everyone dead/dying. Valkyrie isn’t even mentioned. His lost eye full of symbolism? Who cares here’s a new robot one Rocket just happens to have.

I am honestly convinced the only reason Hulk didn’t come out is because 1) they blew their CGI budget already and 2) they knew better than to try and live up to the Hulk finally being competently written in Ragnarok.

But there were a few things I have to admit I had enjoyment from:

The full context makes this video even funnier.

Thor saying that Kevin Bacon might be an Avenger, he isn’t sure.

The scene where Bruce is like “do I bow” when meeting T’Challa, and Rhodey is like yeah he’s a king of course you bow.

“I am Groot.” “I am Steve Rogers.”

Like in general, I will cut this short and say most of the humour did make me laugh.

Thor’s badass entrance to the battlefield and Bruce is like “you’re all so fucked now.” Additionally, Thor actually doing damage to Thanos.

Bucky picking up Rocket and swinging him around and making a surprisingly good team up.

Rhodey finally being treated more like a real Avenger and allowed to interact with characters other than Tony.

Nebula continuing her tradition of flying ships into people.

Shuri demonstrating her intellect is higher than Bruce’s--this is a scene I was hoping for and was glad to get.

The battle scenes looked okay and were at least capable of following.

I’ll say it wasn’t as convoluted a mess as I was preparing myself for. But that’s not really a compliment considering I was basically coming in with the bar buried underground.

And are those few moments of levity enough to say I overall enjoyed the film? Honestly, not really. It’s not a film I never plan on watching again, but it’s not one I’m immediately eager to see again either. It’s the kind of film that if I had to give a number score, I’d give it a 5/10. Which hey, is better than the 1/10 that was Age of Ultron!

#avengers #infinity war #mcu #movie thoughts #fit for a queue

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skylights422 · 5 years

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Thor 1 Rewatch Commentary

Having recently seen Avengers: Endgame, I was feeling the need to reminisce and revisit the beginning of my mcu obsession, which started and was most prominent with the first Thor film. The thing that stood out to me most during this rewatch was something I’ve always been fairly aware of, and that is the frankly excess ambiguity surrounding many of the character and world building elements of the film, most notably everything around Asgard and Loki’s character arc, so that will be the focus of this review. Before I dig into it though, I want to briefly go over my other reactions to seeing the film again:

- I forgot how fun Jane and co. were. They were all plenty likable, their actions made sense, Jane was a real go-getter and Darcy and Selvig both filled their roll well, and Jane’s scenes with Thor were actually pretty nice! Sure the pacing and generally confused focus of the film meant that their plot and development sometimes felt a little... jarring or slow? But that is more of an issue with the film’s structure in general and not so much an issue of how the characters were used/portrayed.

- THE MUSIC WAS SO EMOTIONAL AND GOOD OMG. It really made the atmosphere strong, and added a distinct kind of feeling to a lot of the scenes that seemed more...emotionally charged than the stuff that came later? At least from memory, I still need to rewatch the other stuff they’ve been in.

- My goodness have I ever missed how Thor was written in this film, I forgot how much I loved the more old-fashioned speech style that was kind of dropped Ragnarok onwards, and how much I enjoyed Thor as the well-meaning but arrogant prince who learned like, so much in a very short amount of time (maybe too much for 3 days lol but in fairness they were some fairly extreme days from Thor’s perspective and it can be read as being evidence of how much inherent goodness Thor actually had as well how spoiled he must have been for a few days of normal expectations and consequences to bring out such a difference)

- I missed Sif and the Warriors 3 being characters that were like! Acknowledged!

- I already knew this but this film really is more focused on character drama than action, but like it’s all scrunched up and/or alluded to character drama a lot of the time due to the short run time and aforementioned ambiguity so it really gives a kind of weird tone/feel to the film where a lot of the time you’re kind of just like, “huh????”. Or at least that’s how it was for me.

Okay! General thoughts out of the way, now on to the analysis, which I will put under a read more because the general thoughts got longer than I expected.

Alright. So from the beginning, a few basic things are made known. Jotunheim exists, Jotunheim once invaded Earth for Reasons Not Given, and Asgard exists as a realm that observes/protects the other realms (or at least Midgard) from the Jotuns/other threats but really the jotuns because at this point they are the only threat discussed as being a Thing. Then we obviously see Thor and Loki as kids; they themselves don’t really interact with each other in the scene, but they interact with Odin and a few generalizations can be made. Thor was more confident and aggressive/assertive while Loki was more nervous/insecure and more observant (he asks for more info about the Jotuns, Thor makes a quick decision about what to do about the Jotuns).

So far so good as far as intros go - but then things first start to dabble in ambiguity, both from a ‘first time watching’ perspective and ‘in hindsight’ perspective. First off, the first time viewing perspective: Odin says Thor and Loki were ‘both born to be kings’; is this...metaphorical, and supposed to be comforting to Loki as the second born that he can be a king in spirit? Is it supposed to be a world-building element to show Asgardian monarchies have their children compete for the throne instead of automatically assigning it to the first born? It’s unclear, but which it is definitely influences how you perceive the later parts of the film (did Loki have a real chance at the throne in theory but Thor was still always talked about in a ‘when he is king’ way, making the supposed favoritism seem more blatant? Or did he know from the get go he wasn’t meant for the throne due to tradition and only really ever competed for Odin’s approval, which leaves more room for the favoritism to be more perceived/due to miscommunication)

Now the ‘in hindsight’ part of the scene that is kind of ‘???’. First off, Odin nowhere corrects Thor on the Jotuns being monsters (he wouldn’t have had to get angry or anything, it would have been easy to fit in a correction with his general ‘don’t seek war’ message), which when you first watch it is like ‘okay these are the Generic Bad Guys of the film so we aren’t supposed to feel anything for them, suspension of disbelief sure they’re evil ice monsters got it’ but when you know that Loki is a Jotun and that his trying to kill the Jotuns is supposed to be the big thing Thor stops him from doing at the end of the film it just seems weird.

On the character building front it doesn’t make Odin look great and shows that Loki didn’t get his later anti-jotun sentiment from thin air I guess, but from the narrative perspective why the heck would you introduce a group of people as ‘evil cuz evil’, have one of the main characters learn he was born one, and then have said main character’s primary villainous act be getting rid of the ‘evil cuz evil’ group of people without doing anything in the film at any point to humanize the supposedly evil group or prove to the viewers that Odin and Asgard was actually wrong in their view of them. Like, it is a no-brainer that genocide is an atrocity, full stop, but despite that being Loki’s worst crime in the film objectively it’s the one that evokes the least amount of feeling and the one that almost no one in the film gets mad at him about or betrays him for. Thor tries to stop it in the end, but this like a Fresh Hot Take for him and apparently the rest of Asgard too, because when Thor was banished it wasn’t for killing dozens of Jotuns for no reason, it was for bringing war to Asgard - because then Asgardians would suffer. Only that’s not really addressed and no one in Asgard is ever called out for thinking of the Jotuns as monsters, and when 80% of the good-guys are on board something and nothing contradicts them, it’s kind of hard to get mad at the villain for doing the same thing even if you know by all means you should. (Also another reason the film needed to be longer, we see Thor learn humility and it is done very well, but there’s no real conversation about seeing other species as lesser unless we assume it was covered with the blanket statement of ‘I had everything backwards’)

The next point of ambiguity I want to bring up in keeping with a loose chronology of the film is ‘Loki in part 1 of the film, also, Sif and the W3′. The first real scene we see adult Loki speaking is when he talks to Thor after the coronation is ruined - before that he just observes all of Thor’s conversations with Odin. Here it is pretty much impossible to say with any Real Certainty if Loki was trying to edge Thor on into making an extra stupid decision or if he was just trying to be placating and actually get things to calm down afterwards, because there’s loose evidence to support both interpretations. On one hand, we do eventually find out Loki let the Jotuns in in the first place, so it isn’t far-fetched to assume this was part 2 of Proving Thor Needs To Not Be King Right Now. But on the other hand, at this point Loki had already basically achieved his goal - the coronation was postponed, and Odin told off Thor for poor ruling decisions which kind implied Odin was reconsidering the idea of crowning him so soon - and we know Loki wants to be validated by his family so it also makes sense to assume he was trying to just stay on Thor’s good side (this is, admittedly, a more likely assumption to make with the extended version of the scene where Loki much more obviously reacts to being included by Thor and then stands to voice his support of him, but it can still be drawn from the scene as is in the film as well).

On the subject of the W3 and Sif, since we see almost no other Asgardians outside of the royal family and Heimdall, I assume they are supposed to represent a bit of what the average or majority of Asgardians think/how they view things. This is important mostly because they make a few view-points clear in regard to how they (and so presumably People) see Thor and Loki. First off, they do tease/belittle Loki a number of times, and again due to lack of context it’s wildly unclear on if this is well-intentioned teasing that Loki takes too personally (since the W3, esp in deleted scenes, do rib each other quite a bit) or if it comes from genuine disrespect/malice (Loki IS a prince and most of the other ribbing doesn’t end in the teased one falling silent, so it is possible but again, unconfirmed). Secondly, they clearly worship Thor a bit and don’t see anything wrong with his arrogant and violent behavior (they don’t really see anything wrong with Thor starting a war other than inconvenience, and they want Thor back from Earth right away even though that would fix pretty much nothing, maybe they thought they needed their best fighter for the war but that is never brought up so it comes off more as them just being unhappy with the sentence in general). They also blatantly distrust Loki - they assume he is a traitor because he has magic and because... he’s Loki, I guess, but especially as a first time viewer it just seems like total paranoia since we haven’t seen anything to support their view.

Which leads me to a specific line of theirs: ‘Loki’s always been one for mischief’. Most writing advice says to ‘show, not tell’, and while there are obviously moments where telling is fine or even better than showing, this is an instance that would have been infinitely better to show rather than just tell. Mischievous how? To what extent? Since when? Kid Loki seemed obedient and quiet. Everything about Adult Loki we see in the film is either reserved or desperate, not mischievous (deceitful absolutely, but that isn’t the same thing). In fact unless you include the deleted scene where Loki makes wine into snakes to spook a servant that was laughing at him (which, is a pretty minor, albeit petty, instance of mischief), Loki doesn’t actually do anything for the sake of mischief at all in the movie. It just seems like a really weird decision to write a character known broadly for being mischievous, have him not act out of mischief once in the film, but still include a single line telling us that actually is mischievous, really, so suspecting him of treason makes sense, yeah?

Like, Sif and the W3 literally betray Loki, who was supposedly their friend(-ish) and currently their rightful king not because they have any proof of misdeeds (they only suspect him about the Jotun thing, they don’t know about Loki lying to Thor, and this is BEFORE the Destroyer was sent or Jotunheim was being destroyed, which we don’t even have hard evidence that would have bothered them) but because...they don’t like Loki and Really Don’t Like that Loki won’t bring Thor back, I guess? The way it’s framed they might also be assuming he did something to Odin and/or Frigga to get the throne but like...where the heck would that assumption even come from??? There’s nothing on-screen to back that up other than the ominous camera-work (and again, the deleted scene provides possible textual evidence that Loki was given the throne by Frigga after Odin fell asleep and did not expect to gain anything throne-related to de-crowning Thor). Also I am really unclear on if Heimdall deciding to behead his current king for tricking him/messing with inter-realm defenses is culturally appropriate or not, but from an uninformed viewer’s perspective it seems like a wild overreaction, which is another thing that could have been built on (in general Asgard’s culture could have been explored more like, a lot).

As for the second half the film/the final battle, my main question in hindsight was ‘what...exactly was Loki OR Thor expecting to gain from their confrontation???’ because Thor entered the arena basically just going “What the heck? What the heck!?!?!?!?!?” and Loki was in full-scale mental breakdown mode so I kind of don’t think he was planning anything coherently at this point, aside from maaaaybe stalling Thor long enough to let Jotunheim be destroyed (except, he didn’t really see that as something that could even be done and was visibly shocked to see Thor trying to break the Bifrost, so probably not even that). It just makes, narrative-wise, for a really weird final fight where neither combatant has any real Desired Outcome (Thor is kind of trying to talk Loki out of his freak out while also wanting to talk/argue about the whole Destroyer thing, but is too out of the loop and hot-headed to do a very good job at this and Loki I think just wants to vent/panic/finish his plan). And I mean part of that does play into the tragedy element of the story, but it also plays into the overarching ambiguity of the entire film.

I think...those are the main points I wanted to cover? More or less. Conclusion: I love the film to pieces but it is a structural dumpster fire that leaves way too many major character and world-building elements up to interpretation. And yet also this was the golden days and I miss them and have too many thoughts about these characters. But still, narrative anarchy at least half the time. SO THAT’S THAT.

If I missed anything or you want join the discussion or ask me anything regarding Thor, Loki, and their arcs absolutely feel free to do so!

#thor #marvel cinematic universe #loki #mcu #thor 1 #mcu meta #analysis #kind of negative?#but also I adore this film so kind of positive?#mixed feelings #so many mixed feelings

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winters-orbit · 5 years

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My Thoughts on Endgame: A Very Spoiler-Heavy Review

Yeah we’re talking about pretty much all of it, so buckle up.

Alright y’all, here we go. I saw endgame yesterday, and I think I’ve finally compiled all of my thoughts. So a couple things before I start.

1. There will be VERY heavy spoilers, like, so many. I have tagged this post with every tag I can figure out about spoilers, and I’m starting this post with stating it. If you have not seen the movie and don’t want spoilers, please do not read this post. I feel I have warned you sufficiently, so don’t get mad at me.

2. This is going to be a really LONG and in depth post. I apologize, but I need to talk about this.

3. If I refer to the people making the movie, I am talking about both the Russo’s and Markus & McFeely. I feel that all four of them were involved enough to lump them altogether.

4. This is likely not going to be a super positive post, so know that.

5. I may have a few controversial opinions. I’m not here to attack anyone’s opinions personally. These are just mine. I’m totally willing to have a civil discussion about stuff.

Now that we know where we all are. I’m gonna start off with what I thought were the positives.

· Steve wielding Mjolnir. HOLY SHIT. I think that is literally my new favorite shot in the MCU. Steve standing there with the Hammer and his shield honestly took my comic loving ass’s breath away.

· A bit of an extension of that last point, but the wide shot of Steve standing there alone, facing all of Thanos and his army? Hot damn? That was such a beautiful shot.

· Most of the movie before the five years later was what I’m going to sum up as ‘pretty good’, i.e. I don’t have too many complaints.

· “That is America’s Ass” (do I need to explain this one?)

· Natasha basically holding everything together for 5 years, just trying to hold herself together when Steve walks in? Wow, break my heart why don’t you.

· AVENGERS….assemble.

· Falcon saying on your left

· Strange looking at Tony before the end and slowly holding up one finger.

· Scott’s breakdown and frantically looking for Cassie’s name on the memorial (Like, shout out to Paul Rudd’s acting there, cause damn I felt that)

· Captain Marvel (and here’s where we get controversial kids) was in the movie very minimally

Look, I’m sure there’s some other good stuff that I’m just not remembering. But that’s the stuff that really stuck out to me.

OHHHHHHKAY, deep breath because here we go. I want to start off talking about tone. For me, it was all over the place. Phase 3 as a whole in the MCU has been really tonally off for me. I know this is not a common opinion, because everyone I saw this movie with had the humor really land for them. Still, for me I felt the humor was really off. It always feels jarring to me when they juxtapose death with a joke.

Now that we’ve gotten tone out of the way. Let me go through by characters. Because this movie really suffered as far as characterization and plot. So let’s talk characters first.

Tony:

Gotta really preface this one. I have never really liked Tony as a character. So take everything I say with that in mind. This is going to sound biased.

So- three big things for me as far as Tony.

1. It REALLY bothers me that Tony would just fuck off for five years. (Look this one is really biased, I can acknowledge that) After being the one to always be about winning no matter what, Pepper even says something along the lines of would you be able to live with yourself? So the idea of him just leaving and not helping even remotely rubs me the wrong way. And apparently all it took was seeing a picture of Peter to change his mind? Idk not sold.

a. This didn’t really fit anywhere else but I wanted to touch on it because it bothered me. But WHAT THE FRESH FUCK do you mean by reverse the Mobius strip. WHAT. The WHOLE point of a Mobius strip is that there is only ONE side. (Like I know this doesn’t matter literally at all but hot damn does it fire me up for no reason)

2. Tony & Howard. Let’s discuss. I’m honestly really confused what they (see preface #3) were going for with this interaction. The way I always read the relationship was that Howard was very neglectful and emotionally manipulative. The MCU has never given me the impression that the two had a good relationship. So, what was this interaction supposed to be? Was it supposed to be closure? Idk I have a hard time figuring this scene. If you have thoughts on this one let me know.

3. Alright, Tony doing the final snap. We gotta talk. I know this was more of an MCU thing. Like I get that Tony started the MCU so it fits that he would be the one to end this arc. But I am just personally really mad that I don’t think Nebula got the closure she deserved as a character. I guess you could argue that killing her ‘alternate timeline’ (oh don’t worry, we’ll get to that) self is ‘closure’ but she didn’t even get to try and fight Thanos. After everything he did to her, and after killing Gamora, I felt she deserved something. Basically, Tony performing the snap made no sense in context of character arc (like everything in this damn movie), and it should’ve been someone else.

a. I’m not sure how I feel about Tony dying. Not sure it worked for his arc but I’m sort of happy that this will be a moving on for the MCU.

Steve:

I wish I could articulate through text the incredibly deep and long sigh that I just gave. Steve they did you dirty.

You know what we’re talking about, but let me say it anyway with a couple Fuck’s just to let me vent. WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE ENDING. HOW THE FUCK DID THAT HAPPEN. HOW THE FUCK DID THEY THINK THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA. WHY THE FUCK DID THEY RUIN HIM LIKE THAT.

Okay, now that I’ve gotten that I’ve gotten that out of the way. Let’s talk about this a little more calmly. I’m so disappointed. I feel like everyone else has done this in more detail and since I’ve already be working on this for like an hour, I’m going to try and summarize this.

Steve’s entire arc was about moving on from whatever bad things have happened in the past and still being a good person. It’s about learning how finding new people and having new experiences can help you grow from whatever has happened to you in the past. It is so incredibly frustrating to watch them throw that away. Peggy and Steve never dated, at least as far as what the MCU showed us. Peggy died, she had a good fulfilling life. She moved on. She tells Steve later that she has no regrets about her life, only that he didn’t get to live his.

Beyond that what about Bucky, Sam, Natasha, even Fury and Tony, and the rest of the Avengers. So he just threw all of those relationships away?

Side tangent. Bucky should’ve been the new Cap. Don’t get me wrong, Sam Wilson is incredible and I think he’ll be great. But damn they did Bucky just as dirty. I think it makes more sense to have Bucky be the new Cap. Bucky is also a super soldier. He has a form of serum and could actually do what Steve did. Sam is not a super soldier (as far as the MCU) and he, while still an incredible fighter, just isn’t as powerful as Steve was.

Anyway, I’m bitter, I’m mad, and I’m so incredibly disappointed that this is the message they went for as Steve’s farewell to the MCU.

Thor

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh boy. What did they (I’m including Hemsworth this time too) do to you Thor. I feel like I must preface that I did not like Ragnorok. However I did think that the character arc they had for Thor was good.

Two major things:

1. We gotta talk about the weight. This is another thing where I just don’t get where they were going with it. They have completely destroyed whatever character the MCU was trying to build. Why has the fucking GOD OF THUNDER been reduced to a constant punchline? Wow.

a. Also yeah, we also gotta touch on Fornite. Fucking yikes Marvel. That is not going to age well. This is just super cringe worthy and another one of those tone issues I was talking about.

2. He left Asgard?????? The Fuck? After everything that’s happened he’s just going to dick around with the guardians?

a. Don’t get me wrong Val is going to kick ass

b. Also let me tell you, I am not looking forward to Thor being in guardians 3. I literally cannot stand the interactions between Peter Quill and Thor and I am dreading the next guardians now.

Other people have definitely gone into further depth when it comes to Thor so I feel like it’s been covered.

Bruce

I don’t like it, I don’t have a solution, but I don’t like it.

Natasha

Damn I feel like a broken record, but Nat they did you dirty. She did not deserve to die. Like I said in the positives section, she literally held the Avengers together for FIVE years when it was very clear that Tony and Bruce had fucked off and Steve was busy helping individuals. I think she was pretty damn redeemed. Like shit the whole series is her trusting people and finding a family in the Avengers.

Clint

Aight so let’s get it out there. Clint is one of my favorite characters of ALL time. Yeah I’m biased. I will never deny that. I have been bitching since 2012 that the MCU has destroyed Clint. This movie is no exception. I’m kinda just talking about the whole soul stone scene here. As soon as I saw that it was Clint and Nat going to Voromir, I knew Nat was dying. I literally gasped in the theatre and covered my mouth as I quietly chanted no no no no no. My friend sitting next to me didn’t get it but I wasn’t about to tell him. Both of them deserved so much better and yes I’m hardcore Clintasha and have been since 2012. So them fighting over who was going to sacrifice themself absolutely destroyed me.

So thanks Marvel, I hate it.

That’s the O6. I don’t have major thoughts on every secondary character, but I do on one.

Scott

Hot damn, this is really personally to me. But why is Scott always portrayed as an idiot, the butt of a joke. The man literally has a MASTERS IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING. As someone who is about to get an undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering this really pisses me off. Just because he doesn’t understand quantum mechanics he’s treated like a joke. AGHHAHGHAGHAGH

Alright folks let’s do it. Let’s talk plot.

I’m of the opinion that time travel is never good for a series. It opens to many doors and makes to many confusing problems.

I cannot stand how they’ve defined the rules of time travel in this. They actually just made it a get out of jail free card and then they broke them anyway? I’m honestly just tired and confused at this point.

What happened to Loki when he disappeared with the space stone? How did Thanos come to a future where he was already dead when the Doctor Strange movie implied you can’t travel past your death?

Why were we denied seeing everyone snap back into existence? You really denied us all those reunions. So much of the movie was slow and quiet, why couldn’t that have been too.

How the fuck did none of them die when Thanos blew up Avengers headquarters?

What are the implications of all the timelines they created (oh wait the movie decided that all established movie time travel rules are dumb because we want to write without concern)? A 2012 where Steve knows about Bucky but Hydra thinks he’s on their side? What did Hank Pym do when he found out a bunch of his particles were taken? Was Howard different as a father because of a talk he had with that same son? How the fuck are Peter and all his friends still the same age?

Marvel you simply cannot do shit like this. You can’t throw out established rules simply because your story wouldn’t work without changing them. NEWS FLASH that means your story is shitty. Get better at writing or don’t use time travel. You can’t ignore stuff like butterfly effect. Or simply disregard changing your own past. You can’t just say ‘alternate timeline’ and solve it. Are you opening up the MCU to the multiverse? Or is this just a contrivance for your plot to work.

In conclusion TL:DR there was a good movie in here somewhere. But the plot was so riddle with holes and mistakes. They threw out character in favor of fan service. All of the years of work that was put in to build these characters is now out the window. I hope you’re happy Marvel.

Agree with me? Cool. Don’t Agree? Cool. I’m glad some people actually like the movie. Is this everything I wanted to say? No, I’m probably forgetting something. But here’s a lot of how I felt.

#endgame #spoilers #endgame spoilers #anti endgame #a4 spoilers #avengers engame spoilers #avengers 4 spoilers #avengers: endgame spoilers #avengers endgame #avengers: endgame #not my steve rogers

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langxue · 5 years

Text

Avengers Endgame Initial Thoughts

Okay. I have some Thoughts about Endgame, most of them fairly critical. Also highly subjective. So here goes. Spoilers abound, for Endgame and other MCU content.

1. OMFG they completely wasted Captain Marvel.* In her own movie, Carol is a fairly laid back, adaptable, competent, and Silly person. She has a wonderfully casual charm and sarcasm that’s really fun to watch. She’s also a powerhouse, and by the end she definitely knows it. (Like seriously, she destroyed multiple of Ronan’s ships in under a minute. In GotG, it took a whole fleet just to slow one of them down, plus a team on the inside to blow it up. And then Carol’s just like “nah, you’re done now.”) And then you hit Endgame. And we have a stoic, closed off Captain Marvel, who shows up, talks a lot about how awesome she is, and then spends fucking 80% of the movie on a shelf on the justification that she’s helping other worlds that are also in trouble. Which is a fine justification to keep her away for some of the setup. But the heroes’ main plan is time travel. Which means it’s not time sensitive, and they keep making a big deal about only having one shot. Why, in that case, wouldn’t you wait until you could get Carol on your team?? Thor is a psychological mess. Keep him on the bench and bring in Carol. OR have her on hand to use the gauntlet after all the stones are collected. But no, they just went with “eh, we’re not sure how to contact her, so we’ll just skip over that option entirely.” So they wasted her character as a character with minimal interactions with the others, and zero of those interactions actually being in character (except maaaybe with Peter at the end, but that very much felt like two actors trying very hard with very little to work with), and then also wasted her as far as plot impact, opting for a heroic re-entrance most of the way through the movie.

2. The time travel felt extremely poorly explained, which is really bad when your plot completely hinges on it, and is especially bad if you’re gonna rag on other movies with time travel. Back to the Future is paradoxical nonsense, but it’s self-consistent paradoxical nonsense. Endgame was some kind of multiverse with zero clear understanding of how different timelines/realities could and could not interact with each other. I’m still trying to wrap my head around all of the possibilities and whether there actually is an internal logic, but at the very least, while watching the movie, it entirely felt like they were doing whatever they wanted to suit the plot. Which is a bad sign when dealing with time travel. (My general approach to time travel is that you either have to completely handwave it or completely explain it. And that explanation doesn’t have to be an info dump! It can just be apparent in the story itself, such as with Time-Turners. Though I personally don’t mind time travel info dump tbh.)

3. Relatedly, the secret to time travel is to model an inverted Möbius strip and get the eigenvector of that one particle there. I don’t think I’ve been that annoyed but technobabble in a long time. That’s math word salad, as far as I can tell (though I’m admittedly not a mathematician. If any mathematicians can clarify how this makes any sense, I’d appreciate it, but in the mean time, I’m going to assume it’s garbled nonsense.)

4. Still on time travel but I’m having one hell of a time figuring out Steve’s ending. Like, how can he do that within the confines of the time travel mechanics? Why wouldn’t he come back and spend that time with Bucky?? Since, you know, they’ve like barely spoken being reunited?? For Pete’s sake, don’t set up their bond like that, spend two full movies on the turmoil cause by Bucky’s return, and then just fucking drop the plot line on the floor because you wanted to stick Steve back with Peggy. What in the fuck.

5. IM. SO. MAD. ABOUT. GAMORA. (And also Natasha, though that’s a slightly different anger.) GAMORA’S DEATH WAS THE MOST BS THING IN INFINITY WAR AND WAS ALSO THE DEATH I WAS MOST CONCERNED THEY WOULDN’T CORRECT. AND GUESS WHAT. THEY DIDN’T. SHE’S STILL DEAD.** The soulstone mechanic can get Fucked, because Thanos should never have been able to get it like that (and relatedly, should Hawkeye have gotten it, since Natasha threw herself, rather than being sacrificed? I’m undecided, but mad either way).

6. Is Loki still dead? Was he ever dead? We just don’t know. If he is dead, that was an amazingly dumb end and I object. If he’s not dead, that is a dumb cliffhanger and I object.

7. I don’t love Thor + Guardians’ dynamic? It feels very off, and I can’t tell if that’s just because it’s Avengers and therefore all the characters have gotten slightly flattened or if it’s just an unappealing dynamic to me. But we already had Quill vs Rocket leadership tension. I don’t was more of that but with Thor. That’s dumb. I’m hoping that it gets more nuance/resolution going forward, but I’m not holding my breath.

8. Relatedly, why would you put Valkyrie in charge of Anything but a battle plan? Nothing I’ve seen of her makes me think she’s well suited to general leadership, and I think she’d chafe under it just as much as Thor does. She’s not the Responsible One to take things over so Thor can go have another finding himself adventure. Ffs.

9. Probably no one’s fault because actor contracts are complicated, but I’m still salty about Lady Sif being 100% absent and unacknowledged for this whole thing. Largely because I haven’t gotten to see her interact with Valkyrie OR Carol and I feel cheated.

10. Some quick minor things before I go on a big rant. It bothered me that Thor’s depression and poor coping was just a joke, basically just “Oh look he’s fat and scared now, isn’t that funny?” I’m so tired of Tony vs. Steve, and I hate that they waited until the last fucking movie to sort of kind of resolve it. You don’t get to pull on found family heartstrings and tropes when you’ve done such a bullshit job of actually showing us a family. You’ve had 20-odd movies to do so. Do better.

11. Okay. I like battle scenes. They’re fun! They’re dramatic! If done correctly, they can give a very tangible sense of odds and stakes. But. Not every movie with high stakes needs a big final battle.

Okay, to clarify a bit, I’m specifically referring to army vs. army battle scenes here. Big punch outs between titans, or scrambling to minimize damage from a disaster are different, and have their own applications and pitfalls. All clear? Great.

Battles, with two armies facing off against each other in fronts, look cool, but fundamentally make no sense in the context of Endgame. Battle lines exist so that you have not very many people actively fighting at once, and so that you can protect the people next to them. When the frontline gets tired, they rotate back and others take over. Battles are not the same thing as skirmishes and they are not mass melees. If a battle turns into a mass melee, something has gone very wrong and you should in all likelihood pull back immediately to regroup.

All of this breaks down when you have an opponent who can break up or ignore your battle lines. Historically, this was artillery and guns—things that forced battles into a cover-based issue. In superhero movies, it’s... pretty much every character of note.

Thor’s lightning —> broken battle line

Black Panther’s suit discharge —> broken battle line

Falcon attacking from above —> pointless battle line

Wanda or Carol doing... anything —> pointless battle line

All of Thanos’ many flying troops —> pointless battle line

Thanos’ warship overhead —> what are you doing pls stop this

All of which is to say that traditional battle tactics don’t apply to this conflict. But the battle we’re shown doesn’t reflect that, and it feels very... weird as a result. Where who’s winning is entirely arbitrary, rather than any kind of steady build.

This tends to lead to a very episodic battle, where you show off individual characters or small groups of characters fighting. Which is fine, though contributes to battle progress being unclear. But there’s a temptation then to give everyone equal levels of badassery in their vignettes, and I think that’s a mistake. The avengers et all are a complementary group. They have members suited to a battle field and members that aren’t. That isn’t to say that Hawkeye and Black Widow can’t hold their own, but their skill sets aren’t specialized for something like this, and so any attempt to make them seem equal in this way is going to either fall flat or cheapen the battle suited heroes’ specialty.

And this tendency to level the field of badassery can also lead to situations where Okoye is backing up Carol for a charge, and I just.... gah. I love Okoye. So much. Carol does not need her help to rush a group of enemies. Carol doesn’t need help from any of the women who showed up behind her except for maybe Scarlet Witch. I get what they were going for. I get that it was supposed to be a Girl PowerTM moment. It wasn’t. It was dumb. It was so very much the wrong time for that moment, because this was not a context where Carol needed help. She just flew through a spaceship. She can fly through some enemies no problem. And it’s probably easier if she’s not worried about her allies getting caught in the blast. And then they had to make the backup team useful, so they made Carol struggle in a moment where she just shouldn’t have. You don’t get points for Girl PowerTM if you have to de-power one of your women just to make it make sense. Give me more scenes with Gamora and Nebula helping each other through Thanos’ abuse. Give me scenes with Carol and Okoye bonding over putting up with impractical people. Don’t give me this battle scene bullshit, I don’t want it.

11. I remain pissed off that there are no actually articulated arguments against Thanos’ fucking stupid plan. What the actual fuck, this is not that hard.

Okay. Now that I’ve gotten that out of my system, some things I actually really liked.

1. Steve wielding Mjolnir was fucking amazing and I’m so pleased.

2. Any time Scott was on screen.

3. Peter Parker is a precious child and he needs to be protected.

4. I actually really like the set up for the time travel nonsense, and I liked that they seemed to be doing something other than a mass melee battle. That the group was divided into manageable teams, and sent on different kinds of missions that required them to be clever and play to their different strengths and help each other through. And then they shoved in a giant battle anyway, because fuck you that’s why.

5. I can appreciate what they were trying to do in giving all of the non-returning Avengers decent send-offs, even if I didn’t like some of those conclusions.

6. There were some genuinely funny moments, but I’m struggling to recall them right now.

7. Oh wait! “It’s an earthquake in the middle of the ocean. We handle it by not handling it.” That one was great.

Okay, that’s all for now. I might have more later, once I’ve picked apart the time travel a bit more and dined some processing.

I think it’s also worth noting that like... ensemble movies with a cast this big are *hard.* character are going to end up feeling confined, and there’s less time to grow because there’s just less time per character. But I think we could’ve had better, and I think if they focused more on group growth in the group movies instead of just drama, then they would’ve been in a better place and had a better story.

It’s probably also worth noting that I really liked Thor: Ragnarok, really like Captain Marvel and really didn’t like Infinity War. So I sort of went into Endgame feeling like it had to make up for Infinity War and live up to the higher at from the recent solo movies. And I really wanted to like it. I really wanted them to pull it off. But those are high and fairly specific standards, and so they fell quite short.

*This should be taken with a grain of salt, because I’d been dreading Endgame as an obligation to watch, and the Captain Marvel movie was the only thing that sparked my interest again. And then Endgame massively dropped the ball as far as I’m concerned.

** there was some stuff at the very end that makes me wonder if there’re plans to still bring her back in a later movie. But it doesn’t change me call bullshit on everything that Infinity War/Endgame has done to her.

#spoilers #Endgame Spoilers #Captain Marvel spoilers #just #general MCU spoilers #ye have been warned

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bioticgoddess · 5 years

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Endgame: Opinions/Analysis

Spoilers ahead - under the cut- so read at your own risk.

The movie was good. I may not agree with how we go to the end of some of the Avenger’s stories but it was done well. Let's being.

Putting to stones back didn't undo Nat's death, I don’t think it could have without hurting her, not without changing her on some fundamental level. She went willingly into that void as much as Clint. She sacrificed herself not for him but for the avengers and her adoptive Barton niece and nephews. She died to protect her family as much as Clint was willing to. She was fraying, coming apart at the ends in a way that is keenly familiar to me. Yes, she found a family with the Avengers but that was the only family she found. Yes, she lost the opportunity to build anything beyond 2023 with that or any family. But that's okay. Sometimes you don't get more than a few years and your protect it vehemently. She did. She weighed the needs of the many against those of the few and wouldn't let her oldest/best friend join those numbers. I doubt she wanted to entertain the conversation with Laura about Clint sacrificing himself for this. For them. So she did what she does, she read the situation and made a play. She was the better spy, the better hero that day. I was reminded that because Wanda’s powers came from the mind stone, she may have a link to the Soul Stone so she has some awareness of that stone’s pocket reality. (So “Force Ghost” Nat and original MCU Gamora. Maybe?)

Tony got a happy ending. Or at least part of one. He was always going to be our Martyr. That's just MCU/RDJ Tony. It's his MO. He was always going to be the one we lost tragically, no matter how Endgame went. He got to flip out and call Cap on his bullshit from AOU and how he knew this would happen. He and Pepper have their Morgan and gods do I hope she makes appearances or is at least referenced going forward. But in the end, Tony did it all of this for HER and for PETER. These are his kids. He couldn't protect one but he'd be damned if he wasn't going to be there for the other right until he was given the chance to fix things from 2018. His death hurt me most because your spouse dying is one of if not the most stressful events that can happen to a person (so sayeth science). It's an inevitability and Pepper knew from Iron Man 1, the start of all this, that he could probably die out there. She's called him on in and cautioned him to be careful more times than I can count. He seldom heeded her warnings.

Thor blamed himself for everything that happened: Frigga’s death, Hela’s return and the inevitable destruction of Asgard, the losses in Infinity War, and those at the beginning of Endgame. It didn’t matter that destroying the planet of Asgard meant saving the people. He lost. He was their monarch and he failed to protect them in the ways he was expected to. Then Thanos showed up and cost him half the remaining people. The losses that day included at least one of his best friends & most trusted advisers (Heimdall) and Loki, the brother with whom he’d only JUST reconciled. The only way he wasn’t going to be the drunk we saw (or some variation thereof because survivor’s guilt manifests in different ways) was if he’d taken Thanos’ life before the snap. That was it. He’d still be dealing with Survivor’s Guilt, no doubt, but if he had at last avenged the assault on their refugee ship and saved everyone else from the snap. His going off to join the Guardians was fitting in that he’s not a ruler, not like he thought or was told he’d be. So he’s going back to what he knows, what he does best, and doing the things he does best - saving people.

Why not reverse the last 5 Years with the time travel heist/plot? What about all the time travel and Steve living a life with Peggy? Well, I’m gonna quote Doctor Who “it’s a great big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...stuff.” The movie ctually established the MCU’s time travel rules through Banner Hulk and The Ancient One. First, they couldn’t change their memories or pasts. So STeve staying in the post WW2 era with Peggy doesn’t or can’t affect anything we saw in the movies. Bucky stayed in the present, so he’s the same Bucky. Loki snagged the Tesseract and BAMF’ed out so, as someone else posited, he’s probably something similar to his TDW self. Second, changes to the past would only result in branching timelines an d alternate realities. The current MCU timeline’s “present” is still likely that new/central timeline only Old-Man Rogers (Old Man Carter eheh) knew the future and he knew to stay ahead of his younger self. How uncomfortable would that conversation be? Third, things are inevitable as a result. Thanos’s 2018 assault: Inevitable. The fates of all our beloved characters: Inevitable. Bucky staying in the 2023 present as a physically 30 year old: Inevitable.

Now, I put the basic time travel overhaul up there because Steve’s whole ending is time travel. This video from ScreenCrush explains it better than I can. So I’ll hop onto the psych explanation since that’s more my jam than quantum physics. We all HEARD him say he’d moved on at the end of AOU. He told Tony as much. Then he got Bucky back in CW only to lose him again to both cryo and Thanos. During time travel he sees Peggy, who he’s definitely not let go of and never will, only to lose her a third time the second he and Tony are back in the present. He’s been broken and had to put himself together in new and interesting ways emotionally multiple times over the decade of the MCU. Like Thor, he’s likely suffering from survivor’s guilt and PTSD. With everything he’s been through it would impossible for him not to be. Unlike Thor, and I suspect even unlike Bucky, he never really found a home in the modern world. Bucky had Wakanda and was reluctant to leave his little farm to fight except that he was duty bound. Steve wanted the kind of life that Tony got to have with Pepper. Only he wanted it with Peggy. By the end of Endgame, he’d finally found a way to achieve that when he returned the stones and TDW Mjolnir to their original places in time.

I’m not going to launch into the arguments for/against him and Peggy, the internet and Tumblr in particular have done enough of that. The video I linked above also explains how he got to have both lives and still follow the rules put forth for Time Travel in the MCU by suggesting that his timeline with her was a branch and so never interacted or impacted the one we know prior. If I had been in Steve’s position, I can’t say I wouldn’t have gone back in time and risked my life to stay with the person I love.

Bucky’s the last person I’m gonna touch on. There was no way that he didn’t either know or suspect that Steve was going to stay back in time. For all know they had a conversation about it prior, even if it was one of those “so Hypothetically speaking what would you do if I stayed in the past with Peggy”. any conversation they may have had about him saving Bucky sooner would have probably included some mention of Sam and, I suspect, how Steve needs him to guide/keep an eye on his successor. It could have even included the same lecture(s) from Bruce Hulk and the Ancient One about branching timelines. Bucky needs to stay in the present because he fits there better than Steve did and he’s the link that Old Man Rogers-Carter is going to rely on to look after the others.

By this point I realize I’m talking in circles but I’m trying to look at the film in the context of what happened and how it ties into the rest of the MCU as opposed to what I as a fan would have wanted to change. Like somehow getting Nat back. Or maybe the Loki Outside Time showing up during that final fight to throw a knife or two at 2014 Thanos. Maybe a tie in to that video of middle-aged Peggy talking about her husband and kids where Steve is sitting another room, looking enough not like himself that the camera crew never bothers him. Something like that. Have Tony live somehow and just be the brains behind the team even if he couldn’t fight. And so on.

#avengers endgame #avengers endgame spoilers #avengers #captain america #bucky barnes #winter soldier #steve rogers #hulk #bruce banner #natasha romanoff #black widow #hawkeye #clint barton #peggy carter #ant-man #thanos #infinity stones

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sineala · 6 years

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I wanted to ask about Cpt Marvel, since we got some new info. What is her relationship with Steve and Tony in the comics? With whom she's closer? And what are your hopes for A4 and their interactions in the movies?

Currently my hope for Captain Marvel in the MCU is that we get to see her punching some Skrulls to the dulcet strains of “Head Like a Hole.” (I just want the soundtrack to be every song I ever liked on the alternative rock station in, like, 1998, plus maybe some Sleater-Kinney. I don’t think this is unreasonable, Marvel.) I want to wait and see how her solo movie is before really having any A4 hopes. Mostly my thoughts are “eeeee” and “should I wear my Ms. Marvel t-shirt or my Warbird t-shirt with my Captain Marvel hoodie to the first possible showing?”

As for the comics, I am putting lots of panels under the Read More.

The first thing you should probably be aware of is that Carol’s relationship with the Avengers in general was kind of rocky at the start and she had some terrible things happen to her in the 80s (mind control + rape + creepy alien pregnancy and childbirth, and then getting her powers stolen by Rogue and then getting dropped off the Golden Gate Bridge and left to die and, surprise, she has amnesia) and basically the Avengers didn’t care (I told you it was terrible) and she told them to fuck off and she went to space. But they’ve patched things up a lot since then.

If Steve/Tony/Thor was the classic Avengers triumvirate, Steve/Tony/Carol is pretty much the new Avengers triumvirate, I think is the best way I can put it. All three of them are experienced heroes and good leaders who work well together on and off the field. They’re a good team, and any Avengers run where they’re all on the team is probably going to be worth checking out.

Carol’s relationship with Steve these days is generally a good one. He’s Captain America. So like most Avengers do, Carol looks to him for advice and support, and occasionally some armed-forces trash talk. You can see both of these things in Avengers: Endless Wartime:

I’m really fond of this moment back in in New Avengers v1 #15 when Carol comes to Steve for reassurance after House of M. Steve gives great hugs:

That panel was the first thing I thought of when you asked about Steve and Carol, honestly. I love it so much.

Steve is also the one who urged her to take Captain Marvel as a codename, here in Captain Marvel v7 #1:

So, yeah, she’s close enough with Steve that she does not hesitate to go to him with problems, concerns, and so on. I think it’s a really nice friendship. Camaraderie between fellow soldiers, I would say is a part of it. Steve doesn’t so much go to her with his problems in return, but that’s mostly because Steve likes to deal with his problems by (a) punching and (b) sulking.

Tony’s relationship with Carol is a little bit more complicated, both because of their shared history of alcoholism and because being Tony Stark’s friend usually means you will be called upon to prevent him from doing something stupid to himself. Probably a lot.

If you’re interested in Tony’s relationship with Carol, an absolute must-read is Busiek’s Iron Man run (IM v3 #1-25). Carol – at this time going by the name Warbird – has recently lost her Binary-level powers and has begun drinking to cope, at which point she starts failing hard at superheroing and gets kicked off the Avengers.

So in IM v3 #7 Tony starts trying to help her, because he figures, hey, he’s been there. He ends up revealing his secret identity just because he thinks he can help her:

However, this is also one of those times when wearing the armor is killing Tony, and, slightly later on, in IM v3 #12, Carol is called on to help him because he’s being an idiot flying around nearly killing himself:

And then she gives him a pep talk once he’s better:

Look how great they are! Aren’t they great?

It takes her a while to actually stop drinking – rock-bottom is her drunkenly drop-kicking Tony through an airplane in IM v3 #24 and putting an entire plane of civilians in danger:

So then in #25 she decides she’d really like to stop drinking, and Tony gets her to go to AA with him:

It’s really an excellent arc for both of them and I highly recommend it. I was under the impression that Tony is Carol’s AA sponsor, but now that I am looking I can’t find on-panel confirmation of that. If anyone knows of any, that would be great.

After Civil War, when Steve is dead, Carol is basically Tony’s one remaining actual friend, and she helps run the Mighty Avengers (the official team) with him and also provides a lot of moral support, as in Avengers/Invaders #2 here, when Tony is essentially attempting not to have a breakdown because he has to deal with a time-traveling Steve from WWII while his Steve is dead and he blames himself:

Man, I love Avengers/Invaders.

More recently in Tony and Carol’s relationship, there was Civil War II, which… yeah. Rhodey died and Carol and Tony were both sad and Carol was in favor of profiling and Tony wasn’t and Carol punched Tony into a coma and the only issue you should read is the tie-in where Justin Trudeau hugs Tony gently and tells him it’s all going to be okay. (Yes, it’s a real issue. Civil War II Choosing Sides #5.)

Okay, okay, if you’re here for Tony and Carol’s relationship, you should also read Invincible Iron Man v3 #14 – there are too many panels for me to post but the wiki has a good summary – which is about Tony and Carol both ending up at the same AA meeting accidentally and having a nice long talk about feelings. It’s probably my favorite issue in Bendis’ entire IM run.

Steve and Tony and Carol are all on the main Avengers team right now but… not much has happened and it’s really too soon to tell what the team dynamic there is like, I would say.

There’s also the recent Life of Captain Marvel #1 for some quality Carol & Tony (and Carol & Steve) content; again, you should really just read the whole thing.

Steve’s got her! And then Tony takes her to the lab, and then they have a heart-to-heart:

Man, I wish Margaret Stohl wrote Iron Man.

In answer to your question, I guess you could say she’s closer to Tony? But Tony and Steve do handle their friendships with others differently, generally speaking; the way Tony and Carol are friends is the way Tony is friends with a lot of his friends, with a heaping helping of emotional vulnerability and large amounts of feelings and/or tears. The way Steve and Carol are friends is the way Steve is friends with a lot of his friends, which doesn’t so much involve that kind of vulnerability, although Steve will be there in a heartbeat if one of his friends needs him. You can definitely see that. It’s just a different kind of friendship style, I would say.

(And of course, the way Steve and Tony are friends with each other is something terrifyingly intense and intimate that neither of them are with anyone else, period, but this is not My Steve/Tony Shipping Manifesto so I will leave it there.)

Also if you ever read Ultimates, Tony and Carol date in that universe. Unlike basically everyone else Ults Tony ever dates, she doesn’t want him dead, so that’s a big plus. (She’s not a superhero in Ults; she’s with SHIELD.)

Anyway, I hope that was what you wanted to know! Carol & Steve & Tony are THE BEST.

#Anonymous #replies

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storytimewithcort · 6 years

Text

Fresh Start (Part 7)

FRESH START PART 7

Fandom: Marvel, MCU

Basic Summary: Everyone’s favorite ol’ AU where we forget Infinity War ever happened! Loki and Thor are living with the Avengers because why not. Reader is hired to work for Tony and Pepper, and she and her son soon meet Loki. Etc Etc Etc - Part 7, reader starts to miss her daily interactions with Loki, while Loki expresses his feelings with help from Thor

Pairing: Loki x Reader (Single Mom Reader)

Warnings: nothing to report this time around

A/n: I have been been both busy with work and then super sick this past week. So, I have replayed certain conversations and scenes in my head multiple times, but have been able to write in a many days. Sorry for the wait. I do have part 8 partially done.

Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7

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The next three weeks flew by and you never had a chance to really talk to Loki about what had happened between the two of you that night you spent in the tower. You had started to the morning after, but you were only halfway through your cup of coffee when Pepper called you with questions about Jonas' typical breakfast routine. That broke the mood for sure, and you didn't know how to bring it back up. Loki seemed more than content to allow the topic subside. He quickly started to ask you instead about your plans for the day.

You wouldn't say it was awkward, it really wasn't or so you thought at first. When you did get a little time to spend with Loki you two were back to how you had been for weeks. You comfortably discussed books, old earth legends, or your four year old's naive yet uniquely philosophical views on everyday life. However, you were starting to think that you were seeing much less of Loki than you were now used to.

At first you didn't have time to take note of it. You were taking a class to get re-certified in CPR and first aid as well as working with Pepper to get Jonas into an unbelievably prestigious preschool program for the upcoming spring session. So you blamed the lack of Loki on your own schedule and didn't think too much of it. You barely had time to think for yourself anyway.

That changed starting two days ago when you felt like your life was winding back down to it's normal amount of crazy. You set both the kids down for a nap and were blessed that Jonas actually wanted to nap since he was starting to grow out of wanting to nap at all. You left the nursery hoping to find Loki in the kitchen area or outside on the balcony per usual, but he wasn't in either spot.

The same happened yesterday. And again when you went looking for him today. You sighed to yourself. Maybe he was avoiding you, or maybe you had been unintentionally avoiding him and he was now bored of you or upset with you. You decided a quick trip upstairs would be okay, you just had to make sure to avoid Tony as he didn't particularly like you leaving the floor with the kids.

As you entered to large common room upstairs you literally ran into the object of your search.

"Oh...Hi" you mumbled as you took a step back, trying to not focus on the hand Loki placed on your arm to help steady you.

"Can I help you with something Y/n?" He asked, looking down at you.

"Well, I just put the kids down for a little bit...Are you busy right now?" As you asked you were certain for a moment his eyes lit up in excitement, but he simply shook his head slowly at you. You notice how he's dressed in a warm jacket and scarf, even holding a pair or gloves in one hand and your stomach sunk.

"I'm afraid I am busy, Thor is taking me to see...something...I honestly wasn't paying attention to what, but he insists." Just then Thor comes around the corner and when you see him dressed for the weather too, you can't help but slump your shoulders a bit. "Rain check?" Loki offers in a more gentle tone.

"Only if that's what you want...I..uh..never mind then." You slipped back into the elevator and hoped you didn't look too disappointed in front of Loki. Just then the brothers entered into the elevator with you and before you could say anything else the doors shut and you forced yourself to stand up straight. Thor was as bubbly as ever and even offered you to join them on their trip, but you obviously had to decline.

As you made your way to step out of the elevator your hand brushed against Loki's unintentionally. His reflexes were astonishingly quick and he grabbed your hand in his before you could walk away. He held you in place for a brief moment making eye contact with you. Rubbing his thumb across your knuckles he repeated, "Rain check, I promise."

You nodded with a little smile and slipped away.

Outside the wind was harsh but it didn't really bother either brother as they made their way through the city. Thor led Loki through streets as if he knew they place as well as Asgard. A fact which Loki couldn't decide was impressive or a bit sad.

"Do we have to walk there through all these people? You're just going to get stopped every few feet by some adoring fan." Loki pouted as a group of teenagers practically tripped over themselves as Thor smiled in their direction.

Thor continued to smile and nod towards each passing onlooker. They were in fact stopped by a few people. To Loki's alleviation, not one of the fans seemed to notice much less recognize him. Once the men were more secluded street. Thor turned to Loki with a look that Loki dreaded. This was Thor's patented I know something face. It always caused Loki a headache.

"So..." Thor started, tone sickly sweet. "Y/n?"

"What about her?" Loki said flatly, the dull ache of annoyance settling in.

"You two seem...close." Thor commented, "Are you two together?"

Raising his eye brows, Loki scoffed, "I'm not talking about this with you."

"And who else would you talk to? I'm your only friend." Thor added, smacking Loki's shoulder lightly.

Loki simply walked a bit faster, putting a little distance between them as he tried not to acknowledge Thor's words. The cold weather suddenly as cold as the most arctic parts of Jotunheim. Or maybe it was just him. After all, there was truth behind Thor's statement, among other reasons. After a few minutes of silence, Loki reluctantly turned his head towards Thor.

"I don't know."

"You don't know if you have any friends or if you're with Y/n?" Thor teased.

Loki glared in Thor's direction, but continued anyway, "I don't know how to categorize my relationship with her."

"That's not hard to figure out. You obviously enjoy spending time with her. And she obviously likes spending time with you." Thor beamed.

"So you're saying I do in fact have another friend." Loki laughed hollowly.

"Loki..."

"Look," Loki sighed, "We have had...moments...of flirtation and romance. However, there will not be anymore in the future. I assure you."

"Does she know that? She seemed excited when she came upstairs specifically to find you today." Thor's voice grew at bit more interested.

Loki took a moment to gather his words correctly, "I think it's best for her if I leave her alone. She's clever, inquisitive, charming, and quite possibly has the kindest heart I've ever known."

"All of that sounds like good reasons to be with someone..."

"All good reasons for a good person to be with her. Not me."

"You're not a ba-" Thor started.

"I am a bad person." Loki cut Thor off with a side glance that emphasized his seriousness. "As honored as I am for your restored faith in me. I'm still viewed as a monster by most of this planet including Y/n's own employer. She has too much going for her to be bogged down by an association with me."

Thor's shoulders slumped a bit, unsure of how to argue Loki's sad point.

"Plus," Loki added, "She has a son, a family. I have a horrible track record with family. I've failed every one in my family at least once." He only paused to raise a finger in Thor's direction, cutting off Thor's words of encouraging disagreement before he could even voice them. "I've even failed you countless times, brother. I like Y/n far too much to hurt her or Jonas in the ways I know I'm capable of."

Thor made a noise of solemn disgruntlement and Loki thought for a fleeting moment that Thor might actually understand what he was feeling for once.

"So..." Thor started quietly, "When do you plan on telling her any of this."

"I've been trying to distance myself from her for a couple weeks now. However whenever I do see her, I forget all about distancing myself. I swear I can't say 'no' to her and I can't keep myself away from her. I hate it." Loki looked down at the ground as he spoke.

"That's because you like her." Thor mused, drawing out the word 'like' longer than necessary.

At the comment a small rock came flying out of nowhere directly at Thor's face, hitting him in the temple. Loki sent another pebble towards Thor, this one hitting him on the side of his left arm.

As Thor looked around the street to find where the rocks came from, Loki let out a small chuckle. "I already told you I like her. Weren't you listening?"

Brushing his arm as if to remove the nonexistent dust the second rock left behind Thor spoke, "I think I understand your concerns. But, you cannot make this decision for her. If you like her and she likes you. She deserves a say in whether or not your relationship moves forward. I say you tell her your concerns and see how she feels. I have a feeling she doesn't see you as a monster at all."

"I did not ask for your advice."

"Ah but you get it! It's my privilege as the older brother to impart my wisdom." Thor boomed, giving Loki another strong pat on the shoulder as Loki rolled his eyes.

After Thor finished showing Loki an museum exhibition on viking history, they finally made it back to the tower in the early evening. It turned out Thor's only interest was the few references on various artifacts to each of them, proving that at least at one time many humans saw both Thor and Loki as godly heroes, not monsters at all. Against his better judgment, all Loki could think about while they wandered around the exhibit was how you'd enjoy seeing it yourself.

As they entered the lobby the elevator was opening to you and Jonas making your way to leave.

"Hi Mr. Snake! Hi Mr. Thor!" Jonas chimed excitedly when he saw them.

"Why hello Master Jonas! How are you this fine evening?" Thor returned in a matching level of excitement.

"Momma says I can have noodles for dinner!" Jonas explained.

"That sounds lovely, I always loved noodles myself. I've got an idea." Thor offered, "How about I get Natasha or Bruce to order us noodles. They understand phones better than I do. Then you both can stay here for dinner. I could even let Jonas play with my helmet." Thor looked at Loki with a huge grin.

You shifted in your shoes, "I don't want to impose. There's a Thai place a block from our apartment, we can just pick something up there. Plus, I'd rather get Jonas home before it's any darker out."

"But Momma! Mr. Thor promised to show me a super hero helmet!" Jonas pleaded, tugging on your shirt sleeve.

"If your worried about traveling too late, Loki would accompany you home make sure you all made it home safely." Thor continued, eyeing Loki excitedly.

You glance between Jonas and Loki for a moment before relenting. "Ok."

"Yeeessssss!" Jonas screamed, running back into the elevator. Once inside he turned back and waved his little hand in his direction, "come on come on."

"You guys heard the boy," you laughed softly. Turning back to the elevator.

Sure enough, Natasha was around when you all reached the common area upstairs. She seemed surprised to see you, but was pleased. After ordering a impressive spread from a local Italian restaurant, you all just had to wait about half an hour. Thor kept his promise and brought out his armor and helmet. Jonas thought it was the coolest thing he's ever seen and proceeded to wear the way to big helmet with glee as he fumbled around the room.

You settled into a spot on a side of one of the couches to watch as Thor played well with Jonas and even somehow convinced Bruce to join in. Once food arrived you all ate as one odd, disjointed family.

By the time Jonas had eaten enough alfredo rotini to rival Thor, you saw the telltale signs of a toddler ready to pass out asleep at any moment. You quickly thanked everyone and started to gather your belongings. Ignoring the puzzled looks from Natasha and Bruce as he got up from the table to follow you, Loki made his way to you across the room.

"I can escort you home." He said as he reached your side.

You turned to face him and instantly blushed at his proximity. This is the closest you had been to him since you were literally in his lap and you couldn't stop your self from thinking about just that. He obviously noticed your blush, because he smirked and raised an eyebrow at you. You shook your head in a way to calm your self and nodded more directly to Loki.

"I'd love that."

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Lovely people: @1v-kayla , @unicorniorosacomefrutillas, @jessiejunebug, @hiddlestonstansworld, @hey-liz-hey, @fortheloveofallthatsholy, @perceptorxbrainstorm, @kinghiddlestonanddixon, @ godhateskyleigh, @illogicalfangirl and hopefully I didn’t miss anyone.

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#loki x reader #loki fanfic #loki odinson #mcu imagine #loki laufeyson #loki imagine #marvel fanfiction #storytime #fanfic #fresh start #marvel au #marvel imagine #imagines #loki fluff #thor #thor odinson #tony stark #fresh start part 7

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lokislonelylady · 5 years

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My Endgame Review

I saw Endgame yesterday and if you don’t want to see any spoilers don’t read my review but I have mixed but mostly negative feelings that I have to get off my chest. My strong feelings against spoilers are outweighed by my need to speak my mind. Now it is hard to live up to the hype and the stakes that were as high as Endgames; no movie has ever had an 11 year connected movie arc like this with so many interconnected characters and plots to live up to and so much expectation riding on it before so perhaps there was no way to fully satisfy that much build up? In the past I haven’t always been happy with the Russo/Mcfeely/Marcus brothers movies before-I thought the Winter Soldier was kind of boring and Civil War could have been better in some ways but I really liked Infinity War for the most part other than the way Loki forgot he had magic and apparently made cryptic statements for no reason at all before his death. But Endgame really did disappoint me. I felt it did not deliver on the promise of completing the story begun in IM1 in 2008 and the story that Infinity War especially began so well last year.

I fully expected 1-4 major characters to die including Tony and or Steve so I was braced for a favorite of mine to die, I still had some hope that they would realize that after audiences have seen Iron Man be tortured, betrayed, fight aliens, make mistakes, grow, learn, change, audiences literally growing up watching this they’d rather see him save the universe and get a happy ending, instead of get a slice of a few years of the happy peaceful family life he always wanted and then lose his life to save the universe, while Steve gets to go return the stones to the timelines they were taken from and chooses to stay where Peggy was and get his happy ending. Of course nevermind that Peggy in 1970 looked about 30 years old which makes no sense at all, even a person I saw it with who had never seen CAFA was like how was she in WWII with him, she’d be like in her 50′s in 1970 right?

And that gets me started on the plot holes in this movie, for all they talk about how time travel works and doesn’t work and how so many sci fi movies with time travel are wrong, this movie gets it wrong too and leaves a ton of questions it doesn’t bother to answer. Like Loki bugging off with the tesseract...so is he out there free somewhere so nothing that happened after that happens or is he only free out there in an alternate universe that was created when that happened or did that never happen because the tesseract got taken earlier instead at Fort Lehigh in 1970 by Tony and then returned by Steve to the exact same time so then later all the same Avengers 2012 events happened exactly as they did the first time with no interference by a second future set of Tony and Steve and Scott meddling that allowed Loki to grab the stone and escape? You decide I guess. And obese, drunk, ignoring his kingdom Thor-don’t get me started. A bad joke that doesn’t fit in the dark tone of a serious movie.

Honestly the only scene I really loved was Tony yelling at Steve that he told everyone this was coming and they didn’t listen, mocking Steve for his “together” line, saying and “where were you?’, calling him out as a “liar’, then ripping his nano’particle housing out of his chest and slapping in into Steve’s hands and suggesting he put that on and run and hide when Thanos comes again and then collapsing. I still have post-Civil War resentment and didn’t want them to just shake hands and smile and have everything instantly fine because the big bad was here and I was glad we got that little bit of rage spat out first, Tony basically saying I got my ass handed to me and where were you? Also the loss of Steve’s beard was another great tragedy. I didn’t see the loss of Natasha coming, that was a surprise. Another question at the end-is Gamora from the past traveled to the present alive now or did she get dusted along with Thanos’ army? She came with them but she switched sides so...? But they didn’t show her with the GOTG at the end, but of course she doesn’t know them just cause they know her. Wouldn’t any interactions Gamora, Nebula, Thanos, and his minions had during those intervening years be changed now that they traveled to the future and got dusted?

Maybe if I see it again some of these questions will be answered but most likely I will just have more questions. MCU has just disappointed me for the last time I think. I will probably see SM:Far from Home and GOTG:3 now that James Gunn back on project and maybe the Loki TV show but otherwise I am pretty done with MCU because I started it for Tony Stark and Loki and without those two there is no reason to watch anything it has to offer and it has disappointed me for the last time, Russos and MCU has become more about money than good storytelling ultimately and maybe that is why some actors want out so much they are happy to have their characters die? They can’t bad mouth a franchise that has made their careers but actors know good writing from subpar, they know The Avengers 1 from Endgame, I am inevitable from I am burdened with glorious purpose. Okay from brilliant. That is the difference. People hate on Joss Whedon but think what he could have done if he were writing the end of this phase of the MCU?

#Endgame review avengers endgame spoilers anti endgame meta

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doux-amer · 6 years

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Part 2 of Infinity War blabbing (about the characters)! Much more positive than Part 1 (general stuff) which is here. As always, if you want to avoid spoilers, look away.

Loki - BRUH, I knew he was going to die in the first five minutes before the movie came out, and HE DID. But my Thor and Loki feels...I knew Loki would come through with his love for his brother, but he waited a long time to, I don’t know, call Thanos’s bluff except I have a feeling he knew Thanos would have nothing holding him back from really killing Thor so maybe he really wanted to see how far it could go and then realized that, no, he seriously couldn’t deal with that happening? “ONLY I CAN HURT MY BROTHER!!!” Lmao. And then his little hero moment where he lies because that’s what he does best and of course that would never work. YOU SNEK FOOL. ;_; His death was what I expected, but it was still violent and his face afterwards was...well, what you expect someone who suffocated to look like somewhat and I liked that because wow, finally, something that feels horrific and fitting with war.

Thor - God, THOR. POOR THOR. MY BOY IS ALL ALONE NOW. A TRUE ORPHAN. AND HE’S GRIEVING AND THE BEST PART IS WHERE HE GOES UP AGAINST THANOS AND ALL THE ANGUISH HE BOTTLED UP COMES SPILLING OUT. That and the lust-inducing part where he shows up to smash in Wakanda. I love my god of thunder. Really liked his teamup with Rocket and Groot too. IW Thor is also how I imagine Thor to be, with a little more silliness when the world isn’t in danger and he can be a goof. Kind of wondering how people took him after Ragnarok. He has one of the best arcs in the MCU. *blows kisses to my golden boy*

Peter - MY SON. MY CHILD. MY BABY WHOM I GAVE BIRTH TO AND RAISED MYSELF. He was so cute! Little baby with his suit that his papa gave him that’s so cool and shiny. His dad just wants to protect him. He doesn’t listen to Tony which is a classic kid move. Peter being pure and good! ALL OF HIS INTERACTIONS WITH TONY ARE SUCH PARENT-KID INTERACTIONS. I’M WEEPING. LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE ONE. WITHOUT FAIL. TONY, YOU DON’T NEED A SON BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE ONE ON THE TEAM. One of the only moments that made me emotional was the part where he died because he’s so scared and he sounds like a kid. He’s so scared and he stumbles towards Tony who he looks up to and trusts so much because Tony will know what to do and Tony will keep him safe, right? Right? And he keeps babbling and I’m crying and Tony’s crying and everyone’s crying and we’re all dying and crying!!!!!! AND HE SLUMPS ON TONY!!!!! TONY HOLDS HIM SO TIGHTLY AND HE CLINGSSSSSSS TO HIM. AND THEN HE SAYS HE’S SORRY!!!! LIKE THAT’S GOING TO HELP WHEN THAT’S GOING TO MAKE TONY’S SURVIVOR’S GUILT SO MUCH WORSE!!!!! AND HE DISSOLVES AND TONY WATCHES HIM DIE IN FRONT OF HIM AND TONY! CRIES! LISTEN, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?! FOR THE FIRST TIME IN TEN YEARS, TONY’S EYES JUST DON’T WELL UP WITH TEARS. TEARS FINALLY FALL. OH MY GOD. IT’S BEEN 84 YEARS. HALLELUJAH. I LOVE THIS SONG.

Tony - TONY WAS RIGHT (TM). HE’S ONLY BEEN SAYING THIS FOR A MILLION YEARS AND NONE OF YOU DICKWADS LISTENED TO HIM!!! LOOK WHAT HAPPENED! THE CASSANDRA OF THE MCU, EVERYONE. His worst nightmare has come alive and he doesn’t have time to panic. There’s too much going on and he needs to focus, but then Titan happens and oh my god, I was braced for him to die in Avengers 4 or something that I clenched my armrests when he got stabbed because I WAS NOT PREPARED FOR HIM TO DIE IN IW AND IT LOOKED LIKE HE WOULD. And then he didn’t. Can people just effing LISTEN to him? Even in this movie, they’d fight him on things. *throws hands up* My boy was in so much pain and Thanos knew who he was. I’M SCREAMING. And the “I hope they’ll remember you” line or whatever!!!!! And oh god the ending when he’s all alone. No one knows he’s there except Nebula. HE’S ON A PLANET THAT’S COMPLETELY DESTROYED FAR OUT IN SPACE WITH NO ONE TO REACH HIM AND NO ONE KNOWING HE’S EVEN ALIVE AND HE JUST SAW EVERYONE DIE IN FRONT OF HIM AND IT’S NOT WANDA’S VISION 100%, BUT IT’S STILL SOMEWHAT SIMILAR. God, his suit is so sexy too. We finally got Bleeding Edge in the MCU, and we are BLESSED.

Steve - Oh, Steve. I missed you. Thank you for reminding me why I love you so much. That line about not trading lives? OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD. THAT’S MY BOY. THAT IS 100% STEVE ROGERS. And with that and all the IW shenanigans, I had Hickmanvengers on my mind, but anyway. God. That’s so Steve. Even when the most logical situation is to do as Viz says, he says that that’s unacceptable and that they need to find another way which can be infuriating under certain circumstances, but not this one because that pushes them to go at the problem from a different angle. My heart was so full, but tbh that was me as soon as he stepped out of the shadows. I just. God. I missed him so much? These two years did a lot to calm me down. I remember when I was so afraid that CA:CW had irrevocably soured my feelings for him which was devastating because Steve means so much to me, but with the help of @aslightstep and time, I calmed down. I was basically heart eyes every time he showed up and thought about how he was so worn down being out in the cold which doesn’t come naturally to him because he needs a support system and being all emo over losing Tony’s friendship (Chris Evans Confirmed Fact TM) because it really showed at some quiet moments. And of course he’d run straight into battle with T’Challa and of course he’d run straight to Viz because Viz needs help and of course he’d be a dork and okay, I know he doesn’t understand Groot, but “I am Steve Rogers.” YOU EFFING POLITE, CUTE DORK. I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! And omg the phone. Tony was about to call Steve and omg I hate that we didn’t get to hear Steve pick up the phone when Bruce called like hdu rob me of that because you know that boy picked it up immediately and was like “BEYONCE? TONY??” God, he doesn’t know that Tony was about to call him, he doesn’t know that Tony’s alive because of the news that he’s missing, he doesn’t know that Tony’s alive because of Thanos wiping out half of the universe and Tony doesn’t know Steve’s alive because of that either, and he doesn’t know that Tony’s stranded light years away alone (with Nebula) without a team on a dead planet and just saw everyone die in front of him including someone he cares for a lot and feels responsible for! KILL ME!!!!!

Thanos - Seriously needed more fleshing out. I felt nothing when it came to Thanos although I liked how they tried to humanize him and I’m sure that had they developed him, those scenes might have killed me. Tbh he cried more than the good guys which was different and unexpected, and he was softer in a way that I didn’t expect. He’s mad, but it’s almost like you can talk to him and he’ll hear you even if he rejects your idea if that makes sense. It makes me mad because instead of doing stupid, zero impact winks at him sitting on his ugly throne, if they had actually developed him throughout the six years we’ve seen him glimpses of him and revolved the GotG franchise around him (or at least one of the GotG movies), then he would be an incredibly nuanced villain, but no.

Gamora - I’m really glad she got to have a lot of screen time, and it was moving how she was so hellbent on disavowing and killing Thanos from GotG1 and on, but she was so conflicted here. Not about what she had to do, but how it made her feel to do it despite knowing in her heart what she needed to do. ;_; My girl. Love the scenes with Nebula too and how far these sisters have come. I wish her death scene had a bigger impact on me, but it didn’t because this guy two seats from me whom I was ready to throttle several times throughout the movie laughed in a “OH WOW!” and because we didn’t get to see her backstory with Thanos at all. Again, not the fault of the Russos or M&M. They only have so much time, and Gunn reallyyyyyyyy should’ve focused on this a lot more in the GotG franchise. But you know, let’s focus on the irrelevant Quill!

Quill - Goddamn do I hate this guy. GotG2 redeemed him in my eyes, but jfc he was unbearably obnoxious in this movie as soon as he showed up. How is he more immature than Peter and Shuri who are ACTUAL KIDS? He’s like that insecure douchebag manbaby in his 20s/30s who needs to grow tf up. He’s insensitive and thinks that everything is a competition because he feels so threatened by Thor who’s doing nothing but existing and not showing off or making moves on Gamora which....dude, you don’t own Gamora. Like his thing about losing his mom and killing his dad? Thor just lost his entire goddamn family, you dangling gonad. He doesn’t contribute whatsoever to the fight against Thanos because lbr that plan on Titan was either something he didn’t come up with alone or he didn’t come up with at all despite what he says. He singlehandedly destroyed their biggest advantage over Thanos to stop him from killing half the universe. But you know, dude can’t even keep his temper under control for two seconds, when Baby Peter’s getting close to getting the Gauntlet off and when he’s not the only one who lost someone or suffered at the hands of Thanos (Drax and Nebula are right there!). You can beat the hell out of Grape Man all you want afterwards, oh my god!!!!!! I was relieved to see that he was one of the people who died tbh because I know he’ll be back, but at least he’ll be MIA for a good while.

Rhodey - I’m...not entirely happy, but fortunately not too unhappy with how they backtracked on Rhodey’s stance on the Accords, but I’m happy to see him and to see him walking again and goodnaturedly taking the piss out of white people who never know how to act around people of color lmao. And I really adored the little bits of Rhodey and Sam interactions in this.<333 My boys.<3 GOD, I’M SO GLAD HE’S NOT DEAD FOR NOW.

Bucky - Lmao the Russos really don’t care for Buckaroo at all. CW showed that and now this. The reunion with Steve was touching, but okay, I hatehatehatehatehate that One Side of Fandom Every Single Corner of the Marvel Fandom hates, so I lowkey laughed that that was all they got. Anyway, dude can’t get a break. Please, he just wants to chop some wood and live an idyllic life and now he’s dead after two seconds.

Vision - Poor Viz was little more than a plot point, and I barely cared about him because of that. The two scenes I liked, though, were when he was like “Yoooo Wanda, who cares about my dad! I’m an adult! I want to be with you! Bye, Tony!” and then his face crumpled with guilt when he saw Tony was missing and when he convinced Wanda to destroy the Mind Stone while it was in him. They went from testing the waters to full-blown romancing each other which was a lot especially because I reallyyyy wish they kept Viz in his actual form and not his human one since the age gap was awkward, what with everyone calling Wanda a kid (You want to see kids? Peter and Shuri are kids) even though she’s an adult. But really, I wish they toned it down or showed their love for each other through other ways than them macking on each other because it would’ve been more effective instead of “Let’s try to cram in as many hetero kisses in this movie as possible (and for the Wanda/Viz one, while Paul’s not in makeup)!” That last scene between them was perfect for that imo, with Viz saying one of the sweetest lines (Wanda not being able to hurt him and all he can feel is her).

Wendy Mcdonald Wanda - As usual, I’m whatever about Liz Olsen’s performance aside from the whitewashing which I’m never getting over, but I was okay with her in this film. I think it’s because for the first film ever, she’s not putting anyone else in danger because tbh she never exactly redeemed herself for the terrible things she did. Here, she’s selfless. Still didn’t care that she died though lmao.

Bruce - Really wish they utilized Mark’s acting chops better because I feel like all Bruce did was act confused or exhilarated by cool things. I did love the reunions with him and the others, though (same with Thor and the Avengers), and lmfasdfoihfsihashfs Bruce/Nat, okay. The Russos had to address it, but it was just that. An acknowledgment. Get this Wh*don ship out of my sight, please. But yes the reunions were sooooo good and heartfelt because it’s been three years since they last saw him and they didn’t even know if he was alive because he was entirely off the grid. Tony and Bruce!!!!! EVERYONE WITH BRUCE!!!!! And the conflict between him and Hulk here was new and refreshing because this time it’s Bruce wanting Hulk to come out and Hulk refusing to and because Hulk seems scared, but it could’ve been handled better because a lot of his scenes felt very corny to me. :/

Strange - Strangely (heh oops, not intentional), I was okay with him. I think it was because I liked his interactions with Tony especially because we see the jerk side of Strange showing up, but it’s not the same variety of jerk that Quill is. And he butted heads with Tony and I’m okay with that because it was mostly due to differing opinions on how to approach the situation. The cloak probably gave him some points as well. But idk he’s just....there are a lot of things with him where I was like, “But can’t he do ___?” I was talking to @hoteloblivion earlier and we were thinking about portals and how they could have been better utilized especially considering how they were shown earlier (couldn’t he just have chopped off Thanos’s arm and then teleported them out of there?). Also, I guess I should watch his solo movie (gagging because yay Mighty Whitey and whitewashing) to understand the Time Stone better.

T’Challa - Damn, I didn’t think he’d go because they were saving all the important “main” characters and I know he’ll be back, but I thought he’d have more to do. Tbh when M’Baku (god he was so beautiful as usual as were my baby genius Shuri and goddess of my life Okoye) didn’t die and we cut to Okoye and T’Challa, I thought Okoye would go, but nah? I love Wakanda’s shields too.

Sam - Oh Sam, I forgot how much I missed you. Fly, birdie, fly! And his warmth and little comments on what’s going on like the awkwardness at the compound were good.

Natasha - She was just there, but it was still nice to see her in action. Not really much to say about her tbh. Oh, I liked how we got to see a few minutes of just women fighting together although movies love to do this thing where they pair up female villains with female heroes and it’s tiring.

Pepper - The beginning was cute, but man, IW seals the deal. I dislike Pepperony. I used to like it, but they’re so incompatible at this point and it’s unfixable because her inability to reconcile Tony’s lifestyle with hers and accept that side of Tony, which is the biggest part of him and the essence of who he is, keeps showing up time and time again. Does that make her a bad person? No. But it almost feels like the textbook example of love not being enough in a relationship where two people love, care deeply for, and admire each other. She deserves the stability and a life away from danger, and he deserves someone who’ll accept him wholly. It was why CA:CW made sense and why Homecoming felt wildly out of left field especially in the wake of CA:CW, and I hated that they swept everything under the rug at the beginning of this one, but ignored it to focus on them being cute and then BAM. It’s not like I don’t expect her to be scared and to try begging him to come home because of that; I do. But it’s more that she goes on about it and kind of worryshouts and I’m like, “OH MY GOD, PEPPER! HE’S AN AVENGER! WHAT DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO DO?! IGNORE WHAT’S HAPPENING? YOU KNOW WHO HE IS AT THIS POINT. ARE YOU GOING TO DO THIS EVERY TIME HE GOES ON AVENGER BUSINESS?”

Rocket and Groot - Liked them. Liked them with Thor. Liked Groot chopping off his arm. Liked Rocket and Bucky shooting aliens together.

Drax - Thank Godddddd he’s more likable in this because I liked him in GotG1 and disliked him for most of GotG2.

Mantis - She’s so cute! Remember her jumping in the background on Titan? And I like her and Peter’s interactions. Spidey, I mean.

Nebula - She deserves better, but at least she saw how much Gamora truly wanted to make amends and be her sister. KILL YOUR BARNEY DAD, NEBS! He deserves to be dead for that torture/dismantling scene alone. :( I didn’t realize to what extent her body was modified. No wonder she hated Gamora for so long.</3

Wong - Yay, we got one Asian in the MCU (Pom’s Asian, but Mantis isn’t). Yay we get to see him do some fighting. Booooo, we see him disappear.

So yeah tl;dr, some good and some bad. There were way too many people in this movie and I get why that’s the case, but now that we got all the introductions out of the way and we downsized by half (lol at all the original Avengers still standing), I hope Avengers 4 ends up being really good with a lot to sink into character-wise. Also, Carol. Bruh. I died seeing Fury and Hill. I missed them and lmaooooo at Nick’s resignation with dissolving. AND THE PAGER!!! WHO HAS PAGERS NOWADAYS?! IS NICK CALLING INTO THE PAST? IS CAROL IN SPACE? BUT IT’S A PAGER AND THAT’S SO OUTDATED AND THAT’S SUCH A SPECIFIC CHOICE. I shouted in the theater when that scene ended and we saw her insignia on the pager screen lol. CAROL’S GOING TO SAVE US ALL.

#iw spoilers

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